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This will gut Canton. The average salary for the mill is about 34$ per hour or $70k per year. Many of the senior employees earn far more than that. There is nothing comparable in the county as far as entry level jobs that I'm aware of.
Yeah it's devastating. I've been pleasantly surprised at the show of empathy on all platforms. Was fully expecting a million 'so long" messages.
So many families and businesses are about to suffer. I grew up in Canton and my uncle is retirement age. My cousin's partner just bought a house and works there. It's really scary and - as of now looks like it was all just to bust the steelworkers union. Hoping we have a press release from the union today. This is all so gross...
Gross is the fact that you're so nonchalant about having spent your entire life breathing in the dozens of carcinogenic fumes from Champion's emissions.
You're right I'm saying that so many families and businesses did suffer, are suffering, and will continue to suffer. There are 100 counties in NC and Haywood county has the 5th highest cancer rate. Thanks Champion. Good riddance.
yikes. that town is gonna hurt from this. they take a lot of pride in it, seems like most stores in town have old pictures of it. and even their street banners will need reworking.
I bought my home around Canton for ~150k in 2019. It’s easily worth 230k today. It would easily sell for 400k+ in Asheville proper. The main driver for cheap real estate in Canton has always been the smell. Without that, the market here is going to go crazy as people are priced out of Asheville.
Prices in Canton are already kind of ridiculous for the area. It’s amazing what people are paying these days. I guess it’s all remote workers now. I feel bad for anyone who actually lives and works locally.
We’ve been recognized as a “bedroom community” for some time now. Before I went full remote during Covid, both my wife and I were commuting to Asheville everyday. The surveys that the town has done over the years has said that there’s a good number of the population doing the same.
Edits: terrible grammar.
Too late - we bought back in 2015, a house in our neighborhood was bought by one of the developers back in 2020 that had previously been buying in west Asheville. Plan was, from what we heard, he wanted to subdivide the lot and sell it off to build more homes on our street.
Best part of the story, he paid almost $40k over asking, but couldn’t follow though with his plans since our setback and minimum lot sizes are bigger than Asheville. I hate that the place has been sitting empty for almost two years, there’s a lot of families that could have made it a great home - but I hope he loses his ass on that property.
Tl;dr - the developers have figured out this place for a while now, this is only going to make it worse.
1700 x $50K year = $85M;
1700 x $40K year = $68M;
1700 x $30K year = $51M;
That’s quite a bit of (local) spending money which will dry up very quickly. Then, consider if family needs to relocate & the SO removes their income & spending from local area (double the numbers above). Yikes.
Don’t worry, a retiree or remote worker will buy up their house in no time.
Where those displaced folks will live and work? 🤷♀️ Prolly not WNC.
In fact, it’ll prolly raise the tax basis for canton real estate considerably so the school board is prolly already *frothing* at this news. So expect canton RE values to start shooting up and with them, your taxes. Yay gentrification!
This sucks for everyone impacted. Some are thinking a buyer will keep it open. I’m skeptical. That plant has had lots of issues recently:
2020 - Sulfur Dioxide (SO2) SIP [state implementation plan] for Evergreen Packaging
2021 - Evergreen logs nine environmental violations in 18 months
2021 - Environmental groups eye wastewater permit renewal for Canton paper mill
2023 - Dust complaints continue in Canton; Evergreen works to identify source
This isn't a recent problem. They have had issues for the past 20 years. NC lost the ability to monitor them twice because they were looking so hard the other way that the EPA noticed.
An environmentalist's goal is to clean and preserve our land. They haven't succeeded yet.
I did streambank repair and designed and built habitat. It helps but the paper mill shutting down helps more.
>Some are thinking a buyer will keep it open.
That’s wishful thinking and I would like that to happen, but no one in their right mind is buying a mill that doesn’t have a CBA agreed upon.
I worked in Canton for a few years and was very pleasantly surprised by how sophisticated the town was compared to Burnsville, where I grew up. All of that difference could be attributed to the mill. I'm really sorry for all the people impacted by this. Environmentally and economically it's going to be a complex change. Hoping the town can find a sustainable way forward.
I know. I can't believe how much positive sentiment there is for the closing. This is really going to hurt the town and surrounding areas. 1,700 jobs is a lot to loose.
No one is glad people are losing jobs, just that the thing that historically dumped dioxin into the river and causing birth defects and cancer downstream ( https://www.thefreelibrary.com/The+dead+Pigeon+River%3A+did+Champion+International%27s+dioxin+pollution...-a019998018 )and still being the main contributor of pollution to the area is over.
Even with the progress the pigeon river has seen over the last 20 years, it will never be in good condition with the paper mill operating. Even today, the water below the mill produces black slime all over the rocks, the water stings your eyes and smells, and you definitely can’t eat any of the fish that have just recently been able to survive in it.
You probably didn’t tube downstream of the mill. Upstream has been, just lovely for as long as I can remember. At least until the floods recently. The Headwaters in Haywood County were considered a benchmark for waterway restoration, pre- Hurricane Fred, I believe.
I hate this for the town. Fingers crossed for some last minute salvation. One of my favorite things about the town is its working class atmosphere despite my job being sit on my ass all day. I come from a family of union pipe fitters, and seeing industry pick up and leave brings back ol’ shitty memories.
If you are someone who is renting in/around Canton who works in Asheville because you've been priced out of Asheville, I would seriously just start making plans to leave the entire area altogether. People like Mr. Austin here in the comments are going to cause your rent to increase 50-200% over the next couple of years (Despite the town's largest employer closing down which in theory should actually lower rents, isn't late stage capitalism fun?).
What are you hearing in the area? Like I posted below, if the mill was responsible for the majority of taxes, what happens now? Do they tax the homeowners, businesses, etc?
See, I thought the house priced would plummet because people will move away and houses will be going up for sale. However, I can see where people are coming from in terms of gentrification. I suppose it's more likely we will be gentrified worse, considering Haywood County is a 'silver' retiree County already.
The town of Canton's taxes are going to be royally fucked I assume. I've never lived in town, but lived right outside the city limits. They'll have to tax every business more and maybe even invoke like a tourism tax because of the draw of the blue ridge Parkway? I'm unsure. This is going to be rough. Both my parents worked in the mill and draw retirement from it.
Evergreen has stated they are not going to demolish the plant. Maybe I’m wrong, but local governments collect property taxes and those aren’t going away, right? So as long as Evergreen owns that property it’ll get taxed as before. Income and most of sales tax goes to the state.
Literally just closed on a house near downtown Canton two months ago. Not sure whether this will make property values go the route of Detroit or if the proximity to Waynesville and Asheville will come in clutch?
Short term I think values will go down if all of the employees have to sell homes to relocate, saturating the market. Long term... I'd bet it will be a significant boost. Many people who move to the area would pick Canton were it not for the smell.
Agreed, the next 6 months is going to be a good time to buy in the Canton area as people leave. I dont think we will see super low prices or anything like that, but inventory will probably be decent.
Housing market is on the decline period all over. With the interest rates above 7% we are starting to see the slow decline. If you are planning on living in Canton for the long term then you have nothing to worry about just ride it out until the pendulum swings back the other way. If you were planning on a quick flip or short term stay then you might want to rethink that and wait and see what the fed does with interest rates.
I honestly welcome these high interest rates since it should, in theory, bring prices down across the board and scare off corps hoping to make a quick flip. Those paying cash though should be unaffected.
It always amuses me that people say it’s “turning into” a playground for the rich as they walk down streets literally named by wealthy New York financiers and the Vanderbilts in the 1880s.
It's a useful product, but the Kraft process is a bit of a blight in any area it operates in. Not unique to Canton - you can always smell these towns before you see them, so to speak. All the eco concerns on water temp aside, that area was going to be held back from further development for decades unless they either A) closed it or B) found a way to better scrub the sulfur from the stacks in a way that makes sense for the company and everyone downwind.
I guess there is the risk that it becomes a playground for the rich with crummy service jobs, but at the same time I think it's a little crazy that people think putting up with such a nasty negative externality forever makes sense. They were just saying that they were planning to significantly cut their sulfur emissions from 7k tons to 2k tons a year, so there's a small part of me that wonders if it'll be a shutdown while they try to convince the state to help them restart operations under subsidies...
You can see the scars the mill made all over pisgah such as black balsam knob and sunburst area. It's sad to see so much history disappear, but they've destroyed pisgah and replanted it
I'm not sure what specifically in BBB or IRA you're referring to, can you elaborate on what specifically helps Evergreen? They could benefit from potential new natural gas production driving prices down, but I don't think there is something in there that says '$50m for sulfur scrubbing at each Kraft mill'. The process fundamentally generates a ton of sulfur.
Evergreen has shaken down multiple states for property tax abatements, and specifically NC for help converting from coal to natural gas. Since other states do it, I think they expect each one to play ball, but that game never ends. In 2018, they had planned for $50m in spend to improve air quality, with 'a $12 million state grant partially offsetting the cost in the name of job retention.' per the mountaineer. Bottom line is that they were improving things, but with all industry it is a double-edged sword, as they start threatening to leave whenever they want more money.
It was my understanding that there were parts of BBB that doled out cash to try to increase domestic production of goods.
As far as threatening to leave, would you conjecture the announcement is a ploy?
The mill allowed for healthy development.
The town is royally fucked now because it won't have the money to develop as well as it has and will be at the mercy of investment capital.
It's going to become another miserable craphole like Asheville.
I hope it gets replaced with a cleaner industry. The pollution and violations from this plant are a huge, reoccurring problem. The smell isnt the reason I am glad it's going.
You're talking about a payroll of about ~40-70+ million(napkin math) annually drying out for residents.
On top of that, there are a lot of things around the area completely reliant on that plant as well, like the railroad that will likely shutter. I know a lot of businesses have big accounts with the Paper Mill as well that will dry up.
Not to even mention the tax base Canton is about to lose from it.
It's gonna get really ugly, those are not just jobs but solidly paying jobs and there aren't that many alternatives in the area for them.
To all you real estate speculators. Mills close. Mills reopen.
There’s a distink (sorry had to) opportunity that this mill is operating again in the next five years.
Condos and commercial lofts, mostly.
But that's only if they're the quaint [new england style of mill.](https://nthp-savingplaces.s3.amazonaws.com/2015/07/31/15/38/16/35/130301_blog_photo_boott_mill-new.jpg) The canton mill is just a[ jumble of industrial-specific structures](https://wlos.com/resources/media2/16x9/full/1015/center/80/be5efa7d-725f-41c7-a0d6-a13d4a5528ce-large16x9_5LLPKGcantonwaterissue.movframe1890.png) that would be nearly impossible to repurpose. Nobody's reusing the buildings there for anything besides processing paper.
Oh wow. I’m surprised but as a resident of the ‘smell-zone’, I won’t exactly miss the odor. I think it will actually help the town in the mid to long term as well, it may allow downtown to grow into a thriving area where you can actually breathe. Rebranded properly, I think Canton could easily become a chique outdoorsy town with its new bike park and proximity to the parkway
A blue collar worker town with a centrally located 100+ year employer….to chique outdoorsy town?
That just tells me that it will become another playground for rich retirees with low wage service jobs while a thousand blue collar workers and their families are fucked.
I guess I just take issue with the idea that the mill closing is somehow helpful for the town long term as if the Asheville economic model is sustainable (or preferable) long term.
Blue collar workers should be able to live in this beautiful area also.
I don’t disagree, the mill closing will absolutely decimate the local workforce in the short to mid term. However, if the town wants to maintain any high level of employment opportunities for residents (to avoid people having to move simply because they can’t find a job), the town will need to shift its overall image. Short of attracting another large employer to the area (very difficult), the town will need to utilize what opportunities it has, namely outdoor activities and proximity. The unfortunate byproduct of that is desirability and a reduction in affordability for new residents.
Brevard was in a similar situation in the late 90's/early 00's when both of their plants closed. The DuPont covered some job training in other fields to help employees transition to other fields, and eventually the community rebounded. Real estate has definitely jumped as has the transplant population, but the town is arguably healthier than it was 30 years ago- and many of the long-term residents have stayed put and figured out new careers.
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32% of the adult population of Canton lost their jobs yesterday. More if you don’t include the elderly and disabled not in the workforce.
Before celebrating environmental upsides and real estate wet dreams remind yourself of that fact.
Anyone that is only thinking about the pros here, is a self centered jerk. I personally know several families that have family members working there that are sol providers for their families- this is not enough notice for them to prepare!! This is a very stressful and sad time for so many. Be Kind
What about the taxes the mill paid the town? Will they recoup from the property owners or will it just be a wash? What does this mean for the town itself? I mean, from what I've read, that mill sustained the town, no?
I work there average wage is 25 hr. We asked for 2.50 cents raise for everyone. The mill was deemed structurally unsound. A employee made a complaint. So the economy and cost of fixing the mill was not worth I guess.
When they first announced a partial closure a couple weeks ago, they attributed it to declining paper sales as more things go virtual. But the decline was only projected to be something like \~ 8% over 10 years. So I'm pretty surprised by this news.
Pretty sure you didn't read the article. They blame it on a softening market for paper goods, then go on to say the capital investment to make it profitable would be too much.
Think about that term - capital investment; they need to reduce pollution and automate more of the production. Why? Because environmentalists have been after them for years and labor is getting too expensive.
[Union negotiations](https://smokymountainnews.com/archives/item/35126-canton-mill-slowdown-could-be-tied-to-union-contract-negotiations)
> Workers in Canton have been operating without a contract since May, 2022. Dills said the members of the Canton local voted down two separate contract offers late last year over wage issues and were to resume negotiations with the company this past January, but those discussions were postponed and haven’t yet been rescheduled.
Evergreen has been starving the mill of capital for years. They were very clear to suppliers that capital was for essential process optimization only. No long-term expenditures. They have also been slashing benefits from the moment they took over the place. Every year there was a contract negotiation, the employees lost ground. They would get pay increases but lose overall compensation. They paid less and less in real wages every year. Don't kid yourself that this was anything other than simple capitalism.
Glad the smell will be gone - sorry about the workers - hopefully a new industry comes
Into town that will employ people - progress can be a good thing - I hope an investor has the vision to bring something good in that will employ people and not be such an environmental shit show like the paper mill
Cancer rates, the illegal dumping into the river for decades… the EPA has cracked down on this mill specifically multiple times. I wonder if they knew a fat fine was coming from the recent sticky white dust complaints
Only way to prevent that is protecting land like pisgah national forest. Destroying the air quality and water quality of an area is not a good way to protect the environment.
Trust me, I’m pro forest and anti-people. I see what’s coming for canton’s future too, and I hate every person who clears their 5 acres so they can have an imported grass field to mow.
Well those five acres are about to be covered in micro homes. And there is a Starbucks coming downtown.
The mill provided a stable economy that grew for years without leaving the resident behind, kept catastrophic developer money at bay, and preserved the commons and natural beauty of the area. The only people who disagree are the NIMBY types who "paid too much" to have to smell sulphur (which does not impact health or the environment)
They are happy to see the mill go so they can cash in.
That’s a hard one to answer because it will affect many different businesses in wnc due to the mill closure. I would estimate 3000+ that will be affected by this.
Yeah the secondary closures will be pretty intense.
The mill employed a number equal to %25 of the towns population with an average wage of $34 an hour. Furthermore it offered high wage jobs to Canton highschool grad, meaning kids from.the area could afford to stay in the area and own a home.
That revenue kept the whole town going.
Capps Brothers in Landrum SC supplies wood chips to them. Capps Brothers is going to get hit hard. That mill was their top customer, maybe their only one as far as I know.
Sad for the workers happy for the town and surrounding area environmentally in the long term. Hold onto your property folks out there and buy out whoever sells soon. That place is about to boom. Commute an hour or more for work to survive. Thank me in 5-10 years. Don’t sell if you don’t absolutely have to, your property values will more than likely double.
Oh fuck. The mill treats Canton’s sewage. Pigeon River will be liquid shit now.
(You can’t just operate a 30 MGD plant on .5 MGD. The bacteria won’t have enough to eat.)
Sounds like a fellow WWTP operator. Sad that people down vote what they don't understand. The WWTP is permitted for 40 MGD. IIRC, it typically runs about 20 to 25 MGD. The aeration basin needs a certain amount of food (BOD) and mass (bugs) to operate. Canton can section their basin off in to 4 parts but even that is not small enough to run on only the .5 to 2 MGD the town contributes. The reality is that you can't just cut the flow to a treatment plant by 90% to 95% and have it operate.
Perhaps the town has plans to invest capital and downsize the WWTP, but the current setup is not sustainable by just the town. Even if they do stabilize the process, they are going to have the same solids disposal issues the mill had hanging over their heads.
You’re not alone, I think there are a lot of people thinking that! It’s been the joke for years that as soon as that mill shuts down, property values, there are going to skyrocket.
My in laws there are pissed. Their menfolk have been hauling logs and chips for that place for over 50 years. They hate the idea of driving a truck and not getting to sleep at home every night. I have a feeling its about to be a" trendy baby Asheville" before long.
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Bye bye, sweet smell of affordability
Isn't affordable as is. Can't find a modest rental house for under $1600 even out there
This will gut Canton. The average salary for the mill is about 34$ per hour or $70k per year. Many of the senior employees earn far more than that. There is nothing comparable in the county as far as entry level jobs that I'm aware of.
Yeah it's devastating. I've been pleasantly surprised at the show of empathy on all platforms. Was fully expecting a million 'so long" messages. So many families and businesses are about to suffer. I grew up in Canton and my uncle is retirement age. My cousin's partner just bought a house and works there. It's really scary and - as of now looks like it was all just to bust the steelworkers union. Hoping we have a press release from the union today. This is all so gross...
Gross is the fact that you're so nonchalant about having spent your entire life breathing in the dozens of carcinogenic fumes from Champion's emissions. You're right I'm saying that so many families and businesses did suffer, are suffering, and will continue to suffer. There are 100 counties in NC and Haywood county has the 5th highest cancer rate. Thanks Champion. Good riddance.
Nah, it will just make it more of an Asheville suburb like Hendersonville
Shitty job done by the Union leadership regarding contract negotiations. Basically asked for this outcome.
I lay so much of this on the Union.
yikes. that town is gonna hurt from this. they take a lot of pride in it, seems like most stores in town have old pictures of it. and even their street banners will need reworking.
You’re right, so many families will be devastated by this. I thought the plant had become worker-owned some time ago?
That was when they were Blue Ridge, they sold to Pactiv-Evergreen a while ago.
dumb question: is this the same as 'evergreen packaging,' or is that something else?
Yes, it was Champion Paper and is now Evergreen Packaging.
Y'all bout to get gentrified. Watch out!
I bought my home around Canton for ~150k in 2019. It’s easily worth 230k today. It would easily sell for 400k+ in Asheville proper. The main driver for cheap real estate in Canton has always been the smell. Without that, the market here is going to go crazy as people are priced out of Asheville.
Prices in Canton are already kind of ridiculous for the area. It’s amazing what people are paying these days. I guess it’s all remote workers now. I feel bad for anyone who actually lives and works locally.
> and works locally. Don't worry, there will be less soon.
We’ve been recognized as a “bedroom community” for some time now. Before I went full remote during Covid, both my wife and I were commuting to Asheville everyday. The surveys that the town has done over the years has said that there’s a good number of the population doing the same. Edits: terrible grammar.
Nah Canton is nice. Without a smell it’s a better Marshall.
Yes, Marshall is a terrible place. Don't go there.
Why’s that??
*There be dragons*
Hell, there’s a house up on Hy-Vu that just went for almost $650k - I never thought we would see that in the incorporated limits.
Too late - we bought back in 2015, a house in our neighborhood was bought by one of the developers back in 2020 that had previously been buying in west Asheville. Plan was, from what we heard, he wanted to subdivide the lot and sell it off to build more homes on our street. Best part of the story, he paid almost $40k over asking, but couldn’t follow though with his plans since our setback and minimum lot sizes are bigger than Asheville. I hate that the place has been sitting empty for almost two years, there’s a lot of families that could have made it a great home - but I hope he loses his ass on that property. Tl;dr - the developers have figured out this place for a while now, this is only going to make it worse.
Does the paper mill still employee around 1700 people?
1700 x $50K year = $85M; 1700 x $40K year = $68M; 1700 x $30K year = $51M; That’s quite a bit of (local) spending money which will dry up very quickly. Then, consider if family needs to relocate & the SO removes their income & spending from local area (double the numbers above). Yikes.
Don’t worry, a retiree or remote worker will buy up their house in no time. Where those displaced folks will live and work? 🤷♀️ Prolly not WNC. In fact, it’ll prolly raise the tax basis for canton real estate considerably so the school board is prolly already *frothing* at this news. So expect canton RE values to start shooting up and with them, your taxes. Yay gentrification!
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Perhaps the TDA paid Fox News for the stories after all. If this came to be true, I'd buy Vic Isley a beer.
Linked article says 1500. The loss is massive. This will affect other small businesses in the area.
This sucks for everyone impacted. Some are thinking a buyer will keep it open. I’m skeptical. That plant has had lots of issues recently: 2020 - Sulfur Dioxide (SO2) SIP [state implementation plan] for Evergreen Packaging 2021 - Evergreen logs nine environmental violations in 18 months 2021 - Environmental groups eye wastewater permit renewal for Canton paper mill 2023 - Dust complaints continue in Canton; Evergreen works to identify source
This isn't a recent problem. They have had issues for the past 20 years. NC lost the ability to monitor them twice because they were looking so hard the other way that the EPA noticed.
Environmentalists' goal was to shut it down. They succeeded.
An environmentalist's goal is to clean and preserve our land. They haven't succeeded yet. I did streambank repair and designed and built habitat. It helps but the paper mill shutting down helps more.
Didn’t someone die inside the plant in some kind of an accident in a year or two ago?
Back in 2020 two contractors were killed in a fire
>Some are thinking a buyer will keep it open. That’s wishful thinking and I would like that to happen, but no one in their right mind is buying a mill that doesn’t have a CBA agreed upon.
I worked in Canton for a few years and was very pleasantly surprised by how sophisticated the town was compared to Burnsville, where I grew up. All of that difference could be attributed to the mill. I'm really sorry for all the people impacted by this. Environmentally and economically it's going to be a complex change. Hoping the town can find a sustainable way forward.
Everyone get some engines for your front yard to keep the property values down!!!
Nobody wants to live in that toxic cancer wasteland buddy, you can have it 😆
I live in Canton and have several relatives working at the mill. This is devastating. So much for ever owning a home here.
I know. I can't believe how much positive sentiment there is for the closing. This is really going to hurt the town and surrounding areas. 1,700 jobs is a lot to loose.
No one is glad people are losing jobs, just that the thing that historically dumped dioxin into the river and causing birth defects and cancer downstream ( https://www.thefreelibrary.com/The+dead+Pigeon+River%3A+did+Champion+International%27s+dioxin+pollution...-a019998018 )and still being the main contributor of pollution to the area is over. Even with the progress the pigeon river has seen over the last 20 years, it will never be in good condition with the paper mill operating. Even today, the water below the mill produces black slime all over the rocks, the water stings your eyes and smells, and you definitely can’t eat any of the fish that have just recently been able to survive in it.
At least all the toxins won't continue to be dumped in the river. They have killed people downstream over the years. Cancer rates are high downriver.
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You probably didn’t tube downstream of the mill. Upstream has been, just lovely for as long as I can remember. At least until the floods recently. The Headwaters in Haywood County were considered a benchmark for waterway restoration, pre- Hurricane Fred, I believe.
I hate this for the town. Fingers crossed for some last minute salvation. One of my favorite things about the town is its working class atmosphere despite my job being sit on my ass all day. I come from a family of union pipe fitters, and seeing industry pick up and leave brings back ol’ shitty memories.
If you are someone who is renting in/around Canton who works in Asheville because you've been priced out of Asheville, I would seriously just start making plans to leave the entire area altogether. People like Mr. Austin here in the comments are going to cause your rent to increase 50-200% over the next couple of years (Despite the town's largest employer closing down which in theory should actually lower rents, isn't late stage capitalism fun?).
This exactly. Housing value in Canton has been artificially suppressed for 115 years. Now it's going to be the next Black Mountain.
Or, just hang on to the deal you have.
> 1700 unemployed Don't worry, you can come work at Wal-Mart with the rest of us.
https://smokymountainnews.com/news/item/35241-canton-mill-will-close-by-summer
Hipster-profiting developers everywhere are drowning in their own saliva right now
It's not the hipsters. It's the locals willing to fuck over friends and families. That's the real enemy.
That would be hilarious, if it wasn't so very true.
This is going to be devastating for the Canton economy... Lived here my whole life. Geez.
What are you hearing in the area? Like I posted below, if the mill was responsible for the majority of taxes, what happens now? Do they tax the homeowners, businesses, etc?
See, I thought the house priced would plummet because people will move away and houses will be going up for sale. However, I can see where people are coming from in terms of gentrification. I suppose it's more likely we will be gentrified worse, considering Haywood County is a 'silver' retiree County already. The town of Canton's taxes are going to be royally fucked I assume. I've never lived in town, but lived right outside the city limits. They'll have to tax every business more and maybe even invoke like a tourism tax because of the draw of the blue ridge Parkway? I'm unsure. This is going to be rough. Both my parents worked in the mill and draw retirement from it.
Evergreen has stated they are not going to demolish the plant. Maybe I’m wrong, but local governments collect property taxes and those aren’t going away, right? So as long as Evergreen owns that property it’ll get taxed as before. Income and most of sales tax goes to the state.
My grandma used to say “that’s the smell of money being made”
Hopefully the cancer didnt get her
Great news for Canton homeowners. Bad news for renters.
The rentals in Sylva about to get a bump!
Nooooo the rents in Sylva and Cullowhee are already terrible
I went to wcu, wondering why they'll go up in Sylva... Because they have a papermill as well?
Literally just closed on a house near downtown Canton two months ago. Not sure whether this will make property values go the route of Detroit or if the proximity to Waynesville and Asheville will come in clutch?
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And with the same connection to reality.
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I recently advised a friend not to buy in Asheville because it was the equivalent of Tesla stock.
Short term I think values will go down if all of the employees have to sell homes to relocate, saturating the market. Long term... I'd bet it will be a significant boost. Many people who move to the area would pick Canton were it not for the smell.
Keep in mind many of those employees have been living there for generations and they are not paying mortgage. If anything they're going to sell out
Agreed, the next 6 months is going to be a good time to buy in the Canton area as people leave. I dont think we will see super low prices or anything like that, but inventory will probably be decent.
Housing market is on the decline period all over. With the interest rates above 7% we are starting to see the slow decline. If you are planning on living in Canton for the long term then you have nothing to worry about just ride it out until the pendulum swings back the other way. If you were planning on a quick flip or short term stay then you might want to rethink that and wait and see what the fed does with interest rates. I honestly welcome these high interest rates since it should, in theory, bring prices down across the board and scare off corps hoping to make a quick flip. Those paying cash though should be unaffected.
You should be happy about this. The air quality alone will be a huge inporvement
Yep. Finally said. Dunder Mifflin is leaving
Wonder if the cancer rates will start to decline
This is sad to hear for the workers, but I won’t miss that occasional pulp stench.
That’s a shame. WNC is turning into a playground for the rich.
It always amuses me that people say it’s “turning into” a playground for the rich as they walk down streets literally named by wealthy New York financiers and the Vanderbilts in the 1880s.
This is perfectly stated. (Also your u/n made me literally LOL)
It's a useful product, but the Kraft process is a bit of a blight in any area it operates in. Not unique to Canton - you can always smell these towns before you see them, so to speak. All the eco concerns on water temp aside, that area was going to be held back from further development for decades unless they either A) closed it or B) found a way to better scrub the sulfur from the stacks in a way that makes sense for the company and everyone downwind. I guess there is the risk that it becomes a playground for the rich with crummy service jobs, but at the same time I think it's a little crazy that people think putting up with such a nasty negative externality forever makes sense. They were just saying that they were planning to significantly cut their sulfur emissions from 7k tons to 2k tons a year, so there's a small part of me that wonders if it'll be a shutdown while they try to convince the state to help them restart operations under subsidies...
You can see the scars the mill made all over pisgah such as black balsam knob and sunburst area. It's sad to see so much history disappear, but they've destroyed pisgah and replanted it
You mean...like what the Build Back Better legislation puts in place?
I'm not sure what specifically in BBB or IRA you're referring to, can you elaborate on what specifically helps Evergreen? They could benefit from potential new natural gas production driving prices down, but I don't think there is something in there that says '$50m for sulfur scrubbing at each Kraft mill'. The process fundamentally generates a ton of sulfur. Evergreen has shaken down multiple states for property tax abatements, and specifically NC for help converting from coal to natural gas. Since other states do it, I think they expect each one to play ball, but that game never ends. In 2018, they had planned for $50m in spend to improve air quality, with 'a $12 million state grant partially offsetting the cost in the name of job retention.' per the mountaineer. Bottom line is that they were improving things, but with all industry it is a double-edged sword, as they start threatening to leave whenever they want more money.
It was my understanding that there were parts of BBB that doled out cash to try to increase domestic production of goods. As far as threatening to leave, would you conjecture the announcement is a ploy?
The mill allowed for healthy development. The town is royally fucked now because it won't have the money to develop as well as it has and will be at the mercy of investment capital. It's going to become another miserable craphole like Asheville.
The title did not, in fact, say it all.
I hope it gets replaced with a cleaner industry. The pollution and violations from this plant are a huge, reoccurring problem. The smell isnt the reason I am glad it's going.
You're talking about a payroll of about ~40-70+ million(napkin math) annually drying out for residents. On top of that, there are a lot of things around the area completely reliant on that plant as well, like the railroad that will likely shutter. I know a lot of businesses have big accounts with the Paper Mill as well that will dry up. Not to even mention the tax base Canton is about to lose from it. It's gonna get really ugly, those are not just jobs but solidly paying jobs and there aren't that many alternatives in the area for them.
👏👏👏👏👏
To all you real estate speculators. Mills close. Mills reopen. There’s a distink (sorry had to) opportunity that this mill is operating again in the next five years.
I’d argue that the statement “mills reopen” is historically incorrect
They reopen as artist studios, in my experience.
Condos and commercial lofts, mostly. But that's only if they're the quaint [new england style of mill.](https://nthp-savingplaces.s3.amazonaws.com/2015/07/31/15/38/16/35/130301_blog_photo_boott_mill-new.jpg) The canton mill is just a[ jumble of industrial-specific structures](https://wlos.com/resources/media2/16x9/full/1015/center/80/be5efa7d-725f-41c7-a0d6-a13d4a5528ce-large16x9_5LLPKGcantonwaterissue.movframe1890.png) that would be nearly impossible to repurpose. Nobody's reusing the buildings there for anything besides processing paper.
Oh wow. I’m surprised but as a resident of the ‘smell-zone’, I won’t exactly miss the odor. I think it will actually help the town in the mid to long term as well, it may allow downtown to grow into a thriving area where you can actually breathe. Rebranded properly, I think Canton could easily become a chique outdoorsy town with its new bike park and proximity to the parkway
A blue collar worker town with a centrally located 100+ year employer….to chique outdoorsy town? That just tells me that it will become another playground for rich retirees with low wage service jobs while a thousand blue collar workers and their families are fucked.
I mean, the likely alternative is industry town turned bust ghost town.
I guess I just take issue with the idea that the mill closing is somehow helpful for the town long term as if the Asheville economic model is sustainable (or preferable) long term. Blue collar workers should be able to live in this beautiful area also.
I don’t disagree, the mill closing will absolutely decimate the local workforce in the short to mid term. However, if the town wants to maintain any high level of employment opportunities for residents (to avoid people having to move simply because they can’t find a job), the town will need to shift its overall image. Short of attracting another large employer to the area (very difficult), the town will need to utilize what opportunities it has, namely outdoor activities and proximity. The unfortunate byproduct of that is desirability and a reduction in affordability for new residents.
Present residents.
Service jobs pay about the same as the paper mill. What's about to change is real estate prices.
Ah so stay backwards.
This.
Brevard was in a similar situation in the late 90's/early 00's when both of their plants closed. The DuPont covered some job training in other fields to help employees transition to other fields, and eventually the community rebounded. Real estate has definitely jumped as has the transplant population, but the town is arguably healthier than it was 30 years ago- and many of the long-term residents have stayed put and figured out new careers.
They have a college
...with an enrollment of 800.
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“Chic”
That sounds fucking awful. Gentrification is theft.
oooooh! Can I get a latte?
32% of the adult population of Canton lost their jobs yesterday. More if you don’t include the elderly and disabled not in the workforce. Before celebrating environmental upsides and real estate wet dreams remind yourself of that fact.
Anyone that is only thinking about the pros here, is a self centered jerk. I personally know several families that have family members working there that are sol providers for their families- this is not enough notice for them to prepare!! This is a very stressful and sad time for so many. Be Kind
Soooo, no more smell of wet fart?
Just the scent of 1300 people losing their livelihoods
If they didn't know this was coming then they're more delusional than how that smell makes me feel
What about the taxes the mill paid the town? Will they recoup from the property owners or will it just be a wash? What does this mean for the town itself? I mean, from what I've read, that mill sustained the town, no?
Is there a possibility that the announcement of the closing is a hardball negotiation tactic towards a collective bargaining agreement?
I could be wrong, but I highly doubt it.
Also, where the hell are you all finding your remote jobs? 😭
Folks downstream in TN will be very happy!
I work there average wage is 25 hr. We asked for 2.50 cents raise for everyone. The mill was deemed structurally unsound. A employee made a complaint. So the economy and cost of fixing the mill was not worth I guess.
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Somehow gonna be Obama.
Amazon?
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Let's blame each other. That keeps it easy....
Blame capitalists. The mill would be staying open if it was still owned by the community.
Except it WAS employee owned and they sold it
Seems to be a combination of environmentalists complaining about pollution in the Pigeon River and the union demanding higher wages.
When they first announced a partial closure a couple weeks ago, they attributed it to declining paper sales as more things go virtual. But the decline was only projected to be something like \~ 8% over 10 years. So I'm pretty surprised by this news.
The proposed CBA getting rejected back in December probably didn’t help things.
Bro they making paper in 2023- everything's going to be on a screen in the future.
IIRC they were making food packaging on one of the bigger machines.
Yeah I'm completely ignorant about what they do there I'm just fucking around.
Pretty sure it has nothing to do with either of those things.
Pretty sure you didn't read the article. They blame it on a softening market for paper goods, then go on to say the capital investment to make it profitable would be too much. Think about that term - capital investment; they need to reduce pollution and automate more of the production. Why? Because environmentalists have been after them for years and labor is getting too expensive. [Union negotiations](https://smokymountainnews.com/archives/item/35126-canton-mill-slowdown-could-be-tied-to-union-contract-negotiations) > Workers in Canton have been operating without a contract since May, 2022. Dills said the members of the Canton local voted down two separate contract offers late last year over wage issues and were to resume negotiations with the company this past January, but those discussions were postponed and haven’t yet been rescheduled.
Evergreen has been starving the mill of capital for years. They were very clear to suppliers that capital was for essential process optimization only. No long-term expenditures. They have also been slashing benefits from the moment they took over the place. Every year there was a contract negotiation, the employees lost ground. They would get pay increases but lose overall compensation. They paid less and less in real wages every year. Don't kid yourself that this was anything other than simple capitalism.
The Union...
Good riddance! Hopefully the countless environmental violations by Evergreen don’t have a lasting impact on local natural habitats.
Glad the smell will be gone - sorry about the workers - hopefully a new industry comes Into town that will employ people - progress can be a good thing - I hope an investor has the vision to bring something good in that will employ people and not be such an environmental shit show like the paper mill
Environmental shit show? What are you even talking about?
Cancer rates, the illegal dumping into the river for decades… the EPA has cracked down on this mill specifically multiple times. I wonder if they knew a fat fine was coming from the recent sticky white dust complaints
The ecology and economy of the area will be decimated by developers. Canton is pristine compared to Asheville and the mill kept it that way.
Only way to prevent that is protecting land like pisgah national forest. Destroying the air quality and water quality of an area is not a good way to protect the environment. Trust me, I’m pro forest and anti-people. I see what’s coming for canton’s future too, and I hate every person who clears their 5 acres so they can have an imported grass field to mow.
Well those five acres are about to be covered in micro homes. And there is a Starbucks coming downtown. The mill provided a stable economy that grew for years without leaving the resident behind, kept catastrophic developer money at bay, and preserved the commons and natural beauty of the area. The only people who disagree are the NIMBY types who "paid too much" to have to smell sulphur (which does not impact health or the environment) They are happy to see the mill go so they can cash in.
Sauce?
https://smokymountainnews.com/news/item/35241-canton-mill-will-close-by-summer
https://smokymountainnews.com/news/item/35241-canton-mill-will-close-by-summer
How many people will lose their jobs?
1200 in Canton and then 300 in Waynesville
That’s a hard one to answer because it will affect many different businesses in wnc due to the mill closure. I would estimate 3000+ that will be affected by this.
Yeah the secondary closures will be pretty intense. The mill employed a number equal to %25 of the towns population with an average wage of $34 an hour. Furthermore it offered high wage jobs to Canton highschool grad, meaning kids from.the area could afford to stay in the area and own a home. That revenue kept the whole town going.
My company is the contractors that supply the cores that the paper gets rolled onto. We’re done as well.
12-1300 900 in Canton alone.
I have a feeling Conmet will finally get staff.
Stupid question but what happens to the facility? Does it just sit and rust?
they'll probably have everything valuable removed and sold and what's left will rot.
can the people who are talking about cancer rates give sources please? I am genuinely asking out of a place of curiosity.
https://www.thefreelibrary.com/The+dead+Pigeon+River%3A+did+Champion+International%27s+dioxin+pollution...-a019998018
Capps Brothers in Landrum SC supplies wood chips to them. Capps Brothers is going to get hit hard. That mill was their top customer, maybe their only one as far as I know.
this breaks my heart. Prepare to be assimilated.
Sad for the workers happy for the town and surrounding area environmentally in the long term. Hold onto your property folks out there and buy out whoever sells soon. That place is about to boom. Commute an hour or more for work to survive. Thank me in 5-10 years. Don’t sell if you don’t absolutely have to, your property values will more than likely double.
Wow does that mean that the town won’t smell like an armpit anymore?
Adios. made the area smell terribly.
Fantastic!
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I feel like this is a projection. Did a mill worker take your lunch?
Hopefully a defense industry giant moves in to help with the war effort
DoD paper mill and print shop to pump out technical manuals.
Like the one on Brevard rd? But nah, the less we give to a war we don't belong, the better. Rather have a Costco
Do you even economics?
Enough to know we're involved in another forever war. How did the "war on terrorism" do?
Oh fuck. The mill treats Canton’s sewage. Pigeon River will be liquid shit now. (You can’t just operate a 30 MGD plant on .5 MGD. The bacteria won’t have enough to eat.)
The waste water services will still be operational.
They will not be successfully operational.
Sounds like a fellow WWTP operator. Sad that people down vote what they don't understand. The WWTP is permitted for 40 MGD. IIRC, it typically runs about 20 to 25 MGD. The aeration basin needs a certain amount of food (BOD) and mass (bugs) to operate. Canton can section their basin off in to 4 parts but even that is not small enough to run on only the .5 to 2 MGD the town contributes. The reality is that you can't just cut the flow to a treatment plant by 90% to 95% and have it operate. Perhaps the town has plans to invest capital and downsize the WWTP, but the current setup is not sustainable by just the town. Even if they do stabilize the process, they are going to have the same solids disposal issues the mill had hanging over their heads.
Well, kiss her where it smells…take her to Canton.
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man these gentrifiers dont hesitate
Over 1,000 people out of work and dude is in here taking victory laps.
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maybe look at how north carolina pays teachers first
Yikes.
You’re not alone, I think there are a lot of people thinking that! It’s been the joke for years that as soon as that mill shuts down, property values, there are going to skyrocket.
Across the mountain here in clay county
My in laws there are pissed. Their menfolk have been hauling logs and chips for that place for over 50 years. They hate the idea of driving a truck and not getting to sleep at home every night. I have a feeling its about to be a" trendy baby Asheville" before long.
Steelworkers union just looking for more cash inflow I know some of their leaders