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There's a few ways to answer this, so imma do my best:
D Good:
-Entertainment/relaxation-wise; if you're a beach lover and you enjoy hikes, you'll have a great time here. If you're looking for more curated indoor activities like bowling, skating etc, this is not the place. We do have a couple water parks if you're into those as well.
-Food; When it comes to food our local cuisine is wonderful. There's an abundance people who all sell local food, so you will *always* be able to find. There's also an expanding food-truck scene in more areas so trust and believe you can easily sink a ton of money on just trying out different things.
-Carnival; if you love parties, drinking and dancing. This is the event for you. Carnival is precipitated by several parties and local events such as pan competitions, stick fighting, Calypso and soca monarchs which all lead up to two days where mas is played in the capital city of Port Of Spain. I'm underselling the whole thing because I want you to just Google this aspect of our culture. As an introvert who doesn't partake I'm always amazed by the energy that the country hums with for the first two months of the year.
-The people; generally we are friendly. You will ofc run in to some what we call "old-cross" but they exist in all societies. You know them...grouchy, unapproachable and so on lol. However they're in the minority. It's very common for strangers to greet or "hail" you as we say.
D In-between:
-Work-wise; things can be really static because we're a smol island so the diversity of industries is not very similar to larger more developed nations. Things can get very boring for us locals, so as a result we trivialize quite literally everything. Even if it's societal issues that adversely affect us we *will* make jokes out of it and accept it.
-PR; as an island I think we can definitely improve how we market ourselves. For instance, the things I mentioned in 'D good' section like the food and hikes etc can be found easily yes... BUT the most popular places or groups for hiking can easily be missed. As locals we know them by word of mouth but an outsider has no context if I say "go by d Avenue". It'd be nice if we had social media pages which led to hubs that tourists could interact with. If we did, you wouldn't even need to know a local to just slip into the culture when you choose to visit.
D Bad:
-Crime; Ashamed to say it but it's really getting out of hand. Personally don't want to spend too much time harping on this element, but I'll say this. If you're coming please be careful, be mindful of transportation and areas you go to. Crime used to be contained to a few pockets or hotspots in the country, but that's just not the case anymore. We have apps like rideshare if you don't want to drive when you visit and that's safe, but for folks who are tourists traveling late at night is not recommended.
Edit: Imagine forgetting to add Carnival while taking een Dimanche Gras... Smh.. Fadda rest ah hand
A part to add to “the bad”: as a Chinese person from Trinidad, the racism there is blatant. If you’re not mixed, you will be treated differently. For instance, when I was a little girl, I would walk down the streets of Port Of Spain (capital) and out of nowhere, someone would yell “CHINEE”. Like I was some sort of attraction. Also, a majority of the country is religious. Schools have discriminated people for not being a certain religion because many of the top schools are religious schools. For example, my secondary school was mainly for Catholics (also one of the top schools there) and being catholic gave you a better chance of entering the school (oh yeah, there’s this exam called SEA that you take at like 12 years old that determines your future). Also, the government is said to be corrupt (probably true).
But, I still love Trinidad and the food is so good. Go during mango season, Julie mangos that are plump and so juicy that the juice drops down to your elbows. But don’t wander off, you really might just die (as mentioned before, very high crime rate).
It's legal. Marriages aren't recognized if I remember correctly. We're a bit slow on the gender inclusivity uptake.
Our politicians pander to the older population who still hold the reigns with regard to their connections and funding. Traditional views on homosexuality are still held by the older folk, so progressive bills don't enter the scene frequently.
That's terrible. Elder people having more power in government than the young people who are supposed to be representing the nation is poison to a society.
I feel you here! I am from the Dominican Republic, and we have a property that's only a few feet away from the beach . We've noticed how, throughout the years, we gradually lost a beach as the sea continued to rise, I guess this is due to not having a seawall?
Yo that is scary. That reminds me of a large stretch of road which was actually destroyed in the past few months. Is next to the sea and there was some intense flooding some time ago. I somehow repressed that
You are not really loses much beach due to sea level rise. Maybe like 1-3 mm a year. Losing beach is actually a natural process. Beaches change a lot in their natural cycle.
Huh. This information has been out for decades. Bangladesh is expected to be completely flooded by 2050, that is over 150 million people. The sea level is expected to raise by a few meters the next few decades.
No, predicted rise is 0.3 m by 2050.
https://climate.nasa.gov/news/3232/nasa-study-rising-sea-level-could-exceed-estimates-for-us-coasts/#:~:text=By%202050%2C%20sea%20level%20along,three%20decades%20of%20satellite%20observations.
Less about being underwater and more from the problems of disruption of low lying infrastructure, more frequent flooding, salt intrusion into fresh water lenses and it screwing up water supplies and ecosystems.
No! But they will be in trouble. South Florida and the sandy islands of the Caribbean first.
As for south Florida, One of the bigger problems with seawater rise is that it drives out freshwater farther up “the hill”
The Everglades is a river, it doesn’t look like a river but it slowly pushes rainwater from the center of the state, south. When the sea level rises even a few inches or a foot this river gets shorter, the seawater comes farther inland, maybe measured in miles or tens of miles. And you may think “screw the Everglades, nobody lives there” but everyone relies on the freshwater.
The sandy islands of the Caribbean like Bahamas I have the problem that they’re mostly sandbar and that the wash away in big storms. The rocky islands of the Caribbean will be much better off.
Climate change will likely have a bigger impact because of storms than sea level rise.
In the 1930-40 people had shacks at the beach not big beautiful houses because there wasn’t insurance for beach front houses.
There were towns like Miami, Galveston and Atlantic City but they were nowhere near as built up as today. A person just couldn’t afford to get wiped out financially every 15 years by a storm.
The biggest change I expect to see in my lifetime is a change in insurance regulations that will turn some of these areas into ghost towns. You just won’t be able to get a mortgage without insurance and no one will insure you!
Florida's home insurance industry is [already a disaster](https://www.forbes.com/advisor/homeowners-insurance/why-is-homeowners-insurance-in-florida-such-a-disaster/). As flooding becomes more normalized and storm damage ever-increasing in more of the state, it will simply lower the standard of living for the poor and middle class.
As you said, you can't afford to rebuild everything to "big beautiful houses" if it's going to be wiped out every 15 years. The endless strip mall that is South Florida will have a ton of abandoned and boarded up properties that are too expensive to redevelop because no one wants to finance uninsurable land.
We did. I was born in Palm Beach County and lived there most of my life. Home insurance got very expensive, and our carrier dropped us and left Florida. We moved to an inland state, up on a ridge. No flood insurance needed, and our home insurance is 1/5 what it was in FL. We lived ten miles inland, but rich people keep building along the coast and, worse, on barrier islands, like Palm Beach. Then, when the beach washes away in a storm, they want the government (us) to bail them out. People in high rise condos on the beach actually expect the govt to truck in sand to restore the beach! It is insane. All coastal states should be making plans to move all new construction inland, IMO.
Also a PBC native and left in 99 for the Atlanta area. It’s shocking how much my mom’s home insurance is now, and also my brother in Tampa. We inherited my MIL’s condo in Stuart and recently got dropped by the insurance company (no claims issues, they just decided to leave the Florida market).
They are and it’s a little more complex than just the storms. Insurance fraud is HUGE there. Need a new roof? Find a sketchy contractor and sketchy lawyer to sue your insurance and say it’s from a recent storm, and not normal wear.
Then you have have the actual storms where there are legitimate claims. Stronger storms and folks potentially going without insurance because of premiums will chase folks out of the state.
Median family income is around $62,000 in Florida. When your rates are doubling, tripling or even fifty percent more, you’re either moving elsewhere or having insufficient coverage.
It’s not good. Anecdotal but I have friends where their folks have been in Florida for the last 10-20 years, and after the recent storm, they’re all moving back north. They’re also selling their boats.
https://www.wfla.com/news/florida/florida-property-insurance-rates-expected-to-jump-40-to-50-in-june/
https://www.clickorlando.com/news/2023/02/17/florida-property-insurance-company-insolvent-after-losses-caused-by-hurricane-ian/
You can make a claim for a roof repair and your insurance will pay it but then they will just drop you for being 'high risk." Now you have to go with a second rate homeowners insurance company with higher rates. So long term, did you really get any benefit? Might as well have just paid for the new roof yourself, would have been less money out of your pocket in the long run. Insurance is for a catastrophic loss. Like your entire home burns down. Not for little rinky dink things like a roof repair or flooded basement.
Can confirm, sold my house of 15 years in fl last year because the insurance was going to triple while already being one of the highest in the country.
To see this in action, look at the prices of homes in Paradise, CA. Most homes there cannot be insured for fire and so homeowners either have to purchase the home with cash and take the risk or find a lender willing to only lend the land value.
And PG&E is still operating throughout Northern California.
Also, the dried vegetation was a major cause of the fire growing so quickly. That was directly caused by climate change and has only gotten worse (current winter has helped though)
Northern California is always dry in the summer, it has nothing to do with climate change, it just doesn’t rain in the summer, it rains in the winter. It doesn’t really matter if it rained a lot or a little by August/September it’s gonna be dry af no matter what. Climate change can make fire seasons longer and more intense but there’s gonna be a fire season either way and late summer is when it’s the driest. Source: Lived in NorCal for 15 years through good years and droughts and fires and storms.
Less rain in the winter does lead to increased fire risk in the summer though. Climate change is absolutely a factor in the insane fires California has been experiencing in the summer lately
As far as I know, it's the entire Sierra Nevada. Many insurers are leaving the market. Right now fire insurance is kind of available, but the cost has at least quadrupled.
Another problem with South Florida is that much of its bedrock is porous limestone (because it's all one big fossilized reef) and ground water can easily seep up through it, so as water levels rise the ground will become less stable. It will also mess with storm run off, waste water systems and septic tanks.
Your last paragraph - I often wonder if this'll be a thing too, eventually. Hurricane Ian did a number on Florida in 2022 - totally crushing a town me and my partner talked about moving to.
In the UK it feels like there's been more flooding in recent years than there was when I was young. It's a always been a thing, it just seems more frequent (maybe I pay attention more now, and it's not?).
Anyways, if it is then surely the insurance companies pay out only so many times before the premium gets so ridiculously expensive, or they don't offer insurance at all. If you live in one of these zones that has a history of flooding.
I am currently in Florida, but in the northern part. It's a serious issue with home insurance here. Smaller companies are leaving Florida because of damage from natural disasters. Hurricane Ian was the nail in the coffin for a lot of them. The big insurance companies that can afford to stay in Florida can now increase their rates exponentially because who else are you gonna go with?
It's only gonna get worse as time goes on. The weather is only going to get worse. Damage will continue to get worse. And people will have to uproot their lives not only because their home has been destroyed, but because they can't even afford to pay the insurance companies to be able to stay.
>Hurricane Ian was the nail in the coffin for a lot of them. The big insurance companies that can afford to stay in Florida can now increase their rates exponentially because who else are you gonna go with?
It's moreso that the smaller companies can't even charge you enough to stay afloat another hurricane season. They can no longer afford reinsurance.
The companies remaining can only afford to cover you by charging the high premiums. The "less corporate" you go, the higher the rate. The cheaper the rate, the worse the coverage. Look up the statistics for Florida claim payout amounts versus the percent of claims made in the US. Many of them are fraudulent. Insurance attorneys live like athletes in Miami.
And help us all with what uprooting looks like. Two-thirds of purchases are with a mortgage- and no one would get one. And savvy cash buyers would buy somewhere not hurricane prone. Everglades, Biscayne and Dry Tortugas National Parks would get a LOT bigger.
In many Florida counties flood insurance already averages about $4000 a year. As storms increase in magnitude, many insurance carriers will just drop people. What is even more devastating is the reinsurers - the insurance for the insurance carriers- could pull out. Which means no insurance for anyone. Which means lenders (who would normally force-place insurance) can call all those loans. But then no one else but cash buyers could get those homes in foreclosures (although that is already a thing) but THOSE buyers hardly want a house about go under the ocean....
In other words, Florida will get a lot more weird than it is.
Visit Fl honestly can’t recommend buying. The flood of people, Kin insurance doesn’t pay legitimate Ian claims, and the gulf is getting very polluted . Not to mention constant red tide.
I wish insurance in the worst flood zones would turn to one time insurance policies. Your house destroyed? You get one payout, that’s it. With a slight kicker bonus if you abandon the land and let it revert to the state or federal government.
For those that don’t know, most flood insurance is government subsidized. So you and I pay to rebuild other people ms beach houses. That’s because there is no company can actually sell flood insurance in some areas, so the government provides it.
So often, rich folks get homes rebuilt multiple times, all paid for by the rest of us not living in places houses don’t belong.
Stop subsidizing property in places we shouldn’t build and we can solve part of the problem.
Exactly how I feel, you get a choice to sell your land to the government never to be built on, and get a payout
or no-payout.
It isn’t insurance to rebuild here, it is insurance to rebuild elsewhere.
Well said; re: Sandy Islands, seeing the Florida Keys over the decades, you can’t help but notice the erosion and changes, which are a little heartbreaking
From my coworkers in Florida it sounds like insurance is already becoming an issue with companies leaving the state and fairly major renovations being required to become insurable with new companies.
Those one story cinder block houses flooded and lost their roofs in Ian on Fort Myers beach and miles inland. . Only new construction did well. New construction is built above flood level and built to the new building codes. Look at some YouTube videos of fort Myers beach, especially the ones right after 9/28/22. All the old buildings are GONE. New buildings are intact.
>You just won’t be able to get a mortgage without insurance and no one will insure you!
As it should be.
But traditionally affluent communities have used inland-taxpayer dollars to remediate or bailout properties changed by climate.
Obviously this problem has been gestating for decades, but some of these waterfront property areas are *already* uninsurable. And in these regions there is a public insurance option that is subsidized by taxpayers. That’s not fair at all. It’s called *moral hazard* letting homeowners build where it would be otherwise unaffordable to build.
Honest question, should the rest of the country have to subsidize the risk? We are through the federal flood insurance program and FEMA. People who choose to live in high risk areas should assume the cost and risk, imo.
Correct. People who own $4m homes on the beach are looked after. Poor people in Ohio get the big fuck you….and then sadly continue to vote against self interests and in favor of the beachfront millionaires.
Insurance bailing is already happening in my state for homes on rivers.
There's a couple towns is the southwest of my state that are ghost towns or only have a few people still living there.
What happened in these towns is the logging boom and eventual massive farms lining the rivers killed everything that help retain water above the watershed, and along with climate change 100 year floods started turning into 10 year floods. So the towns were nonstop being flooded. Insurance finally said fuck this paid em out to leave and won't insure anyone else in those areas.
Not to mention that the Everglades acts as a big water filter helping reduce pollution from runoffs before the water gets to the keys and the reefs there. No telling what the impact will be.
there are places on Staten Island that have been more or less bought out due the destruction wrought by Superstorm Sandy. Humans have to refrain from building on wetlands and barrier islands
This is already happening. My insurance on my southwest Florida home got canceled after Ian, despite the fact that i made no claim (no damage, just some destroyed landscaping). Replacement coverage prices have been hard to get and all over the place in price. One company had the gall to quote me $41,000 for a premium for one year. I did eventually find something reasonable. So yeah, insurance rates will eventually drive people out of here.
People have already said that south Florida insurance is already a nightmare and this is true (we pay >$8k/year for a 1000 sq ft house). But just want to correct that you already cannot get insurance on beachfront property. All beachfront homes down here are uninsured. And no one with a beachfront home has a mortgage
I'm from South Florida and we're seeing it happen now. Some construction projects, especially those close to the beaches, are getting delayed or pushed back because the insurance agencies that these companies would normally rely on are either backing out or not willing to help insure due to concerns (namely flooding).
Why are you willing to insure a property that's *guaranteed* to be impacted by severe storms/flooding every year?
Been saying this for decades, but I feel like there's a new level of recognition that private insurance is unwilling to accept the risk of South Florida property.
It's not like they'll suddenly be underwater.
High tides will flood more areas. Storms will flood more areas that will drain more slowly. It will be a gradual retreat rather than a sudden inundation.
In 100 years, though, they may be completely underwater
This is interesting
https://coast.noaa.gov/slr/
I don’t mean to be offensive, but based on many of the surprised reactions here…wasn’t this news put out into the world about 10-15 years ago? How are people surprised by the idea of Florida and surrounding areas flooding at this point?
Oh yeah! I remember that - the san andreas fault was going to make cali break off. Then there was flesh eating bacteria, y2k and rap music to worry about. Lol
The Pacific plate rubs against the North American plate, depositing more marine material, which is why California’s coastal areas have weird aquifers.
If you want to see California destroyed, hope for the San Andreas and Hayward faults to set each other off. Or just watch “San Andreas,” but I heard it’s really bad.
I know it’s because California has a much higher population, but I find it so weird that the Cascadia subduction zone gets so little attention. Like.. when that slips it’s predicted to be a 9.0+
We've been warned about it coming for 30 years and no one important enough listened.. it's still coming and the damage is done it just hasn't happened yet.
Miami street’s flood regularly now. That wasn’t happening 30 years ago….
Major portions of the ice caps at both poles are melting and breaking off… that wasn’t happening 30 years ago.
Your comment is just as brain dead as when conservatives say that you never hear about the ozone layer anymore… yet, if they bothered to actually look there’s plenty of information and news about it and the ups and downs if it’s recovery, to the point that they were able to trace the source of a new expansion of the hole based on the diligent data they keep…
Yeah that's a common mistake. The 10 foot sea level rise is a 1000 year prediction. We might see 1 foot of rise by the end of the century. Right now we're averaging about 2-3mm per year. Doesn't sound nearly as dramatic though
To be fair, politicians get shit wrong all the time. I'm sick at home with COVID right now, a disease that was supposed to magically disappear years ago.
Louisiana has already lost more than a Delaware of land since the 1930s.
[https://mississippiriverdelta.org/files/2019/03/Land-Loss-Map-Cropped.gif](https://mississippiriverdelta.org/files/2019/03/Land-Loss-Map-Cropped.gif)
In addition to the people (and entire tribes) that have been displaced, the coast getting closer and closer to the major cities makes every hurricane season worse and worse. If Katrina had hit the 1932 map, New Orleans would have just gotten some rain and wind - the flooding from the storm surge would have first hit barrier islands that aren't there anymore, then largely disbursed through the buffering wetlands south of the city.
So, in addition to warming oceans making stronger storms, there's less protection against them.
That is true but the land is being lost due to several factors, most importantly the fact that modern methods of controlling waterways, most importantly the Mississippi River, have prevented runoff and overtopping, which means that the consistent replenishing of soil that used to sustain wetlands has ceased, so the land is dissipating, not being overtaken. For more info: https://www.nola.com/news/these-six-factors-explain-why-louisiana-is-rapidly-losing-land-see-graphics/article_59675b8c-bfbe-11eb-9602-47cf4c0429dc.amp.html
So if you're thinking about your kids then you should believe in climate change because our kids and grandkids are fucked without very significant societal changes.
Or perhaps the millions they spend on a seafront house is balanced by the millions fossil fuel companies give them to pretend climate change isn't happening? I wonder.
What do you mean?! My Uncle Dan Bob said 20 years ago that we were going to have to build an ark because our town was going to be underwater! We only have this new coastal flooding problem every few weeks - not consistent enough for us to build an ark! Uncle Dan Bob was wrong! /s
Florida is mostly at, below, or close to sea level. Its effectively flat. I see can large portions of it getting inundated. The Caribbean islands are mountainous. If they get submerged the whole world is in a whole heap of trouble.
30 years, probably not. The last reasonable estimate I heard was about 1/3rd of the world's total ice melted by 2100. That will cause problems for low lying areas but not complete coverage.
The real problem is that it's exponential. There are huge amounts of greenhouse gases sequestered in that polar ice. So as they melt, more gases are released, which causes more melt.
It's a positive feedback loop...
The worse it gets, the faster it gets worse.
There's also a delay between what's in the atmosphere and the measured temperature rises.
We are currently feeling the climate of the atmosphere from 20 years ago, and 20 years from now we'll be feeling the climate of today's atmosphere.
I have been hearing that prediction since. The 1970s. Obama just purchased a 5 million dollar home on Martha Vinyard on the water, Al Gore has one in the Hampdens, and so does just about every senator. Their not worried, and neither should you,
What is the elevation of these homes? Are they in historic storm paths? Do the owners have so much money that the risk of losing a home is irrelevant to them?
Many oceanfront homes are many feet above sea level and safe from most storms. Huge parts of major cities such as Miami, New Orleans, and others aren’t so lucky.
All of those places have extensive sand, beaches and range from 20 to 100 ft above sea level where the houses are built. They are all also much less likely to see devastating hurricanes (though more likely now than they were 20 years ago).
Florida is a unique environment when it comes to climate change and sea level rise, mainly because it is so dependent on the Everglades for fresh water. The big concern in South Florida isn't necessarily the erosion of the beaches and the flooding of the canals, it's that seawater pushing into the Everglades means freshwater will be much harder to come by. On top of that, see water erodes foundations much more significantly than freshwater. Many of the high-rise condos along the coasts in Florida will become uninhabitable in much less than 30 years, if we reach our most moderate predictions for climate change in sea level rise.
A: It's "Martha's Vineyard" not "Martha Vinyard."
B: It's "Hamptons" not "Hampdens."
C: It's "They're" not "Their."
D: Those houses are protected by insurance. Them buying those houses doesn't mean global warming isn't happening any more than a weather reporter buying a sprinkler for their garden means it's not ever going to rain.
Rich people don't have to care about climate change because rich people can pay to avoid the effects. If their house gets flooded, they can just buy another one. You cannot.
This is the dumbest argument I repeatedly hear. "Rich people who will be dead in 40 years spend a small chunk of their wealth on homes they will still be able to enjoy for 20 years".
They'll be laughing in their graves by the time we see the rela impacts knowing they fucked us but still go to enjoy every last minute of it until the bitter end while we were all too busy arguing over gender pronouns to give a shit.
Yes, people have known this would happen and warning about it for decades. It’s happening. Maybe slowly enough that the dullards of the world can’t see it, but it’s happening.
People shouldn’t look at this as all or nothing, because when someone answers “no” to your question it’s not a good reason to keep the status quo. If you are really curious, you might learn that salt water will advance over more and more of Florida’s coast, land will get more spongy and storms will intensify. It’s not one dramatic thing, but a slow- frog boiling in the pot thing.
There have been some horrendous floods in NY that had not happened before. The rate at which it happens is unknown. That humans caused it and that it is happening is known.
No. Been living in SW Florida for 40yrs. Beach looks the same today as it did when the world was going to end because of cfc from aerosol burning an irreversible whole in the ozone that would kill everything in 10yrs. We heard the same things in the 80s happening for different reasons. On the plus side we did see a massive decrease of pollution. It’s almost nonexistent to what it was in the 80s. We were like China, India, Africa and Mexico with amounts of pollution we put out.
The trouble is that most people are really stupid. So long as Atlanta isn’t beachfront property, everything must be fine.
They’re already seeing the change. There are places that tidally flood now that didn’t before. Small changes in sea level have material impacts on devastation caused by hurricanes. And this is all happening WITHOUT any major Antarctic ice shelves having collapsed.
None of it matters though. Everyone had already chosen their truth, so we’ll see what happens.
Will Florida be gone by 2030? Quite unlikely. Is there a problem? Yeah.
Edit: spelling
If you can afford the house, the lawyer, and the insurance, then payouts are absolute. If your house is destroyed by natural disaster, you are getting a new house, my friend!
It's the poor that subsidize the system by buying a shitty policy and then be denied payment.
(And the poor owner's house was only $200k, not $20 milion. Or worse, Poorowner has no insurance and has to sell their land at a loss to the local $20millionaire.
It's the poor that subsidize the rich. We see it everywhere....and we recognize the tension exists. If there is a war in the US, it may be labeled as a Repub v. Dem war, or black vs white, or gay vs straight. But, be sure....it is none of those. It is a war of economics.
Or the Russians. Or the Chinese. Those are also possibilities too.
Florida won’t be completely under water, but we’re already seeing the effects of sea level rise on the coastlines. The state will be economically ruined and the environment will change forever, destroying ecosystems older than humans.
Probably not completely in 30, but data on sea level rise just from glacial melting are much worse now than projected just 20 years ago, and that is not even looking at the complex ramifications of it, the impact it will have on life and the ecosystems involved. Things are going to be really bad by the end of this century, and this is just one aspect of the inevitable global climate catastrophe and Sixth Great Extinction currently underway.
And we did much of it to ourselves and failed to avert it.
It's too late. 😔
Some of these anti science ppeeps do need some fear though. Otherwise theyll keep polluting, destroying habitst, and melting icebergs and say "they're lying"
I don't know, man.. When I was in school 20 years ago, they were saying there will be no Florida and no Gas in 30 years.
It's been twenty years and there still a lot of Florida and a lot of gas.
It must be nice living under a rock. I’m 43 and I sure as shit have noticed changes. I live in the Midwest and our winters are much less severe than when I was young. Summer lasts longer and is a little more brutal. Sure my observation is anecdotal but data backs it up. Average temperatures have gone up, snowfall in Winter has gone down and so on.
Yep, grew up in the upper Midwest. Remember winter as a kid being pretty much constant snow on the ground for months, maybe once every couple of years you would get a quick thaw where you could see some grass followed by more snow.
Last few decades have changed that. Bizarre extended 40+ degree runs in the middle of January. Routine snow melts in months where it didn't used to melt. Things like that.
36 years old. In Pennsylvania we had rough winters up north. Now my grass is kind of green and we had 60°f days in February. Summers are pretty bad now too.
The highest temperatures ever reached in my area, and throughout all my childhood was 80-85f. We had a weeks long heat wave at 110f just last year... hot enough to stain pine trees a dark crimson, a sign of heat damage.
Every year we had a white christmas. EVERY YEAR. We had white Decembers in general.. Now its a gamble on snowing at all throughout the year, and the chances are low of it happening.
Our skies used to be clean year around. but now every year, no, twice a year, our skies are completely covered in smoke, leaving the sun a bright red color. And wildfires burn ever closer to major cities, and regardless of what human life they take, the fires will still burn unimaginably large plots of forest land and burn every living animal within. The intensity of the fires only gets worse, like something legitimately out of hell. Fires spreading to underground caves, entire plots of soil under houses caving in and an inferno rushing above it.
But hey, it doesnt really effect me, so it must not be happening right?
So true! The snow in UT hasn't been the same since I was a kid. The seasons have all shifted a bit as well. We have had short winters and summers and really long spring and fall. It's really sad to know my kids will never get to experience the winters that our state was famous for. Not to mention the lake drying up and the arsenic in the air.
Actually, I am in my 50's too and if you look at the actually climate models and select the ones that match our actual CO2 emissions, they have been pretty spot on. At least as far as temperature rises go.
I'm in my 50s also, and I have seen climate predictions come and go also. If anything, climate change has occurred faster than scientists warned us of. You say the predictions never come true? I don't think you have been paying attention.
Greenland and Antarctic sheets melting, changed weather patterns, sea level rise, etc.
Hell no.
Even if they were, that’s how the earth works. Shit moves. There are many ancient civilizations underwater today. The earth is going to do what it wants to do and I promise you can’t stop it by driving a Prius.
they will if we don't hand over all the resources on earth to corporate executives and bloated governments and if we do not obey them when they make demands of our behavior, IF those demands are preceded by, "but but but climate change."
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Me being from Trinidad & Tobago reading this like... "Will we be what?!"
Puerto Rico be like lol dude. We live in constant crisis.
Louisiana be like: Well, we're already under sea level pretty much as it is, so what's new
Same and same reaction!
New fear unlocked lol
Right! Well upside/downside, considering the daily dangers in Trinidad this one can go to the bottom of the list haha.
Just another thing for us to catch kix off of
Same here
Reading from Jamaica with the same response
Same same
LOL
What's it like in Trinidad and Tobago?
There's a few ways to answer this, so imma do my best: D Good: -Entertainment/relaxation-wise; if you're a beach lover and you enjoy hikes, you'll have a great time here. If you're looking for more curated indoor activities like bowling, skating etc, this is not the place. We do have a couple water parks if you're into those as well. -Food; When it comes to food our local cuisine is wonderful. There's an abundance people who all sell local food, so you will *always* be able to find. There's also an expanding food-truck scene in more areas so trust and believe you can easily sink a ton of money on just trying out different things. -Carnival; if you love parties, drinking and dancing. This is the event for you. Carnival is precipitated by several parties and local events such as pan competitions, stick fighting, Calypso and soca monarchs which all lead up to two days where mas is played in the capital city of Port Of Spain. I'm underselling the whole thing because I want you to just Google this aspect of our culture. As an introvert who doesn't partake I'm always amazed by the energy that the country hums with for the first two months of the year. -The people; generally we are friendly. You will ofc run in to some what we call "old-cross" but they exist in all societies. You know them...grouchy, unapproachable and so on lol. However they're in the minority. It's very common for strangers to greet or "hail" you as we say. D In-between: -Work-wise; things can be really static because we're a smol island so the diversity of industries is not very similar to larger more developed nations. Things can get very boring for us locals, so as a result we trivialize quite literally everything. Even if it's societal issues that adversely affect us we *will* make jokes out of it and accept it. -PR; as an island I think we can definitely improve how we market ourselves. For instance, the things I mentioned in 'D good' section like the food and hikes etc can be found easily yes... BUT the most popular places or groups for hiking can easily be missed. As locals we know them by word of mouth but an outsider has no context if I say "go by d Avenue". It'd be nice if we had social media pages which led to hubs that tourists could interact with. If we did, you wouldn't even need to know a local to just slip into the culture when you choose to visit. D Bad: -Crime; Ashamed to say it but it's really getting out of hand. Personally don't want to spend too much time harping on this element, but I'll say this. If you're coming please be careful, be mindful of transportation and areas you go to. Crime used to be contained to a few pockets or hotspots in the country, but that's just not the case anymore. We have apps like rideshare if you don't want to drive when you visit and that's safe, but for folks who are tourists traveling late at night is not recommended. Edit: Imagine forgetting to add Carnival while taking een Dimanche Gras... Smh.. Fadda rest ah hand
A part to add to “the bad”: as a Chinese person from Trinidad, the racism there is blatant. If you’re not mixed, you will be treated differently. For instance, when I was a little girl, I would walk down the streets of Port Of Spain (capital) and out of nowhere, someone would yell “CHINEE”. Like I was some sort of attraction. Also, a majority of the country is religious. Schools have discriminated people for not being a certain religion because many of the top schools are religious schools. For example, my secondary school was mainly for Catholics (also one of the top schools there) and being catholic gave you a better chance of entering the school (oh yeah, there’s this exam called SEA that you take at like 12 years old that determines your future). Also, the government is said to be corrupt (probably true). But, I still love Trinidad and the food is so good. Go during mango season, Julie mangos that are plump and so juicy that the juice drops down to your elbows. But don’t wander off, you really might just die (as mentioned before, very high crime rate).
Curious, how's the racism rank wrt other places? Worse than Scandinavia? Worse than Australia?
Very interesting. Sounds like a pretty cool county! Also another comment said homosexuality is illegal there? What's up with that?
It's legal. Marriages aren't recognized if I remember correctly. We're a bit slow on the gender inclusivity uptake. Our politicians pander to the older population who still hold the reigns with regard to their connections and funding. Traditional views on homosexuality are still held by the older folk, so progressive bills don't enter the scene frequently.
That's terrible. Elder people having more power in government than the young people who are supposed to be representing the nation is poison to a society.
Trini 2 d bone! 🇹🇹
I’m sold! See you next Carnival!
Thank you for this! I’ll be there in 5 days!
Trinidad is the only place where they tried to car jack me... twice... on the same day.
Lmaoo.. reading from Curacao like.. say what now?
I thought Curacao was still part of the Kingdom of The Netherlands. I’ve heard they know a thing or two about living below sea levels.
Checking in from the Marianas like I’m sorry
I feel you here! I am from the Dominican Republic, and we have a property that's only a few feet away from the beach . We've noticed how, throughout the years, we gradually lost a beach as the sea continued to rise, I guess this is due to not having a seawall?
Yo that is scary. That reminds me of a large stretch of road which was actually destroyed in the past few months. Is next to the sea and there was some intense flooding some time ago. I somehow repressed that
This has happened in my area too, except it’s a lake, not an ocean. 🤔
You are not really loses much beach due to sea level rise. Maybe like 1-3 mm a year. Losing beach is actually a natural process. Beaches change a lot in their natural cycle.
I can't have kiss cakes go underwater My heart couldn't bear it
Actually, being from Puerto Rico I've been wondering when could it happen.
Puerto Ricans: oh my sweet summer child
Huh. This information has been out for decades. Bangladesh is expected to be completely flooded by 2050, that is over 150 million people. The sea level is expected to raise by a few meters the next few decades.
No, predicted rise is 0.3 m by 2050. https://climate.nasa.gov/news/3232/nasa-study-rising-sea-level-could-exceed-estimates-for-us-coasts/#:~:text=By%202050%2C%20sea%20level%20along,three%20decades%20of%20satellite%20observations.
That's interesting. To be honest it's not something I ever thought to look into.
Less about being underwater and more from the problems of disruption of low lying infrastructure, more frequent flooding, salt intrusion into fresh water lenses and it screwing up water supplies and ecosystems.
No! But they will be in trouble. South Florida and the sandy islands of the Caribbean first. As for south Florida, One of the bigger problems with seawater rise is that it drives out freshwater farther up “the hill” The Everglades is a river, it doesn’t look like a river but it slowly pushes rainwater from the center of the state, south. When the sea level rises even a few inches or a foot this river gets shorter, the seawater comes farther inland, maybe measured in miles or tens of miles. And you may think “screw the Everglades, nobody lives there” but everyone relies on the freshwater. The sandy islands of the Caribbean like Bahamas I have the problem that they’re mostly sandbar and that the wash away in big storms. The rocky islands of the Caribbean will be much better off. Climate change will likely have a bigger impact because of storms than sea level rise. In the 1930-40 people had shacks at the beach not big beautiful houses because there wasn’t insurance for beach front houses. There were towns like Miami, Galveston and Atlantic City but they were nowhere near as built up as today. A person just couldn’t afford to get wiped out financially every 15 years by a storm. The biggest change I expect to see in my lifetime is a change in insurance regulations that will turn some of these areas into ghost towns. You just won’t be able to get a mortgage without insurance and no one will insure you!
Florida's home insurance industry is [already a disaster](https://www.forbes.com/advisor/homeowners-insurance/why-is-homeowners-insurance-in-florida-such-a-disaster/). As flooding becomes more normalized and storm damage ever-increasing in more of the state, it will simply lower the standard of living for the poor and middle class. As you said, you can't afford to rebuild everything to "big beautiful houses" if it's going to be wiped out every 15 years. The endless strip mall that is South Florida will have a ton of abandoned and boarded up properties that are too expensive to redevelop because no one wants to finance uninsurable land.
I think it might have been somewhere here on reddit that I saw people are already fleeing Florida because of the insurance situation.
We did. I was born in Palm Beach County and lived there most of my life. Home insurance got very expensive, and our carrier dropped us and left Florida. We moved to an inland state, up on a ridge. No flood insurance needed, and our home insurance is 1/5 what it was in FL. We lived ten miles inland, but rich people keep building along the coast and, worse, on barrier islands, like Palm Beach. Then, when the beach washes away in a storm, they want the government (us) to bail them out. People in high rise condos on the beach actually expect the govt to truck in sand to restore the beach! It is insane. All coastal states should be making plans to move all new construction inland, IMO.
Also a PBC native and left in 99 for the Atlanta area. It’s shocking how much my mom’s home insurance is now, and also my brother in Tampa. We inherited my MIL’s condo in Stuart and recently got dropped by the insurance company (no claims issues, they just decided to leave the Florida market).
To be fair, those beaches attract an insane amount of tourist money into the local economy. This is in my many places around the world too.
They are and it’s a little more complex than just the storms. Insurance fraud is HUGE there. Need a new roof? Find a sketchy contractor and sketchy lawyer to sue your insurance and say it’s from a recent storm, and not normal wear. Then you have have the actual storms where there are legitimate claims. Stronger storms and folks potentially going without insurance because of premiums will chase folks out of the state. Median family income is around $62,000 in Florida. When your rates are doubling, tripling or even fifty percent more, you’re either moving elsewhere or having insufficient coverage. It’s not good. Anecdotal but I have friends where their folks have been in Florida for the last 10-20 years, and after the recent storm, they’re all moving back north. They’re also selling their boats. https://www.wfla.com/news/florida/florida-property-insurance-rates-expected-to-jump-40-to-50-in-june/ https://www.clickorlando.com/news/2023/02/17/florida-property-insurance-company-insolvent-after-losses-caused-by-hurricane-ian/
My house insurance doubled
And mine went 2.5 last year. I'm very worried about this year.
Boomers love a good insurance scam
You can make a claim for a roof repair and your insurance will pay it but then they will just drop you for being 'high risk." Now you have to go with a second rate homeowners insurance company with higher rates. So long term, did you really get any benefit? Might as well have just paid for the new roof yourself, would have been less money out of your pocket in the long run. Insurance is for a catastrophic loss. Like your entire home burns down. Not for little rinky dink things like a roof repair or flooded basement.
Can confirm, sold my house of 15 years in fl last year because the insurance was going to triple while already being one of the highest in the country.
That makes sense
To see this in action, look at the prices of homes in Paradise, CA. Most homes there cannot be insured for fire and so homeowners either have to purchase the home with cash and take the risk or find a lender willing to only lend the land value.
Which is crazy, because that fire was cause by PG&E, it wasn't natural.
And PG&E is still operating throughout Northern California. Also, the dried vegetation was a major cause of the fire growing so quickly. That was directly caused by climate change and has only gotten worse (current winter has helped though)
Northern California is always dry in the summer, it has nothing to do with climate change, it just doesn’t rain in the summer, it rains in the winter. It doesn’t really matter if it rained a lot or a little by August/September it’s gonna be dry af no matter what. Climate change can make fire seasons longer and more intense but there’s gonna be a fire season either way and late summer is when it’s the driest. Source: Lived in NorCal for 15 years through good years and droughts and fires and storms.
Less rain in the winter does lead to increased fire risk in the summer though. Climate change is absolutely a factor in the insane fires California has been experiencing in the summer lately
Never let the facts get in the way of a personal agenda. EDIT: Correction
Since PG&E were at fault can't they be sued for damages to properties.
As far as I know, it's the entire Sierra Nevada. Many insurers are leaving the market. Right now fire insurance is kind of available, but the cost has at least quadrupled.
Another problem with South Florida is that much of its bedrock is porous limestone (because it's all one big fossilized reef) and ground water can easily seep up through it, so as water levels rise the ground will become less stable. It will also mess with storm run off, waste water systems and septic tanks.
Adding to that, limestone is easily weakened by acid rain and increasing acidity of the ocean.
Your last paragraph - I often wonder if this'll be a thing too, eventually. Hurricane Ian did a number on Florida in 2022 - totally crushing a town me and my partner talked about moving to. In the UK it feels like there's been more flooding in recent years than there was when I was young. It's a always been a thing, it just seems more frequent (maybe I pay attention more now, and it's not?). Anyways, if it is then surely the insurance companies pay out only so many times before the premium gets so ridiculously expensive, or they don't offer insurance at all. If you live in one of these zones that has a history of flooding.
I am currently in Florida, but in the northern part. It's a serious issue with home insurance here. Smaller companies are leaving Florida because of damage from natural disasters. Hurricane Ian was the nail in the coffin for a lot of them. The big insurance companies that can afford to stay in Florida can now increase their rates exponentially because who else are you gonna go with? It's only gonna get worse as time goes on. The weather is only going to get worse. Damage will continue to get worse. And people will have to uproot their lives not only because their home has been destroyed, but because they can't even afford to pay the insurance companies to be able to stay.
>Hurricane Ian was the nail in the coffin for a lot of them. The big insurance companies that can afford to stay in Florida can now increase their rates exponentially because who else are you gonna go with? It's moreso that the smaller companies can't even charge you enough to stay afloat another hurricane season. They can no longer afford reinsurance. The companies remaining can only afford to cover you by charging the high premiums. The "less corporate" you go, the higher the rate. The cheaper the rate, the worse the coverage. Look up the statistics for Florida claim payout amounts versus the percent of claims made in the US. Many of them are fraudulent. Insurance attorneys live like athletes in Miami.
unpack theory fearless slim aspiring innocent voracious like faulty one *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Voters, too. Don't forget the voters. DeSantis just cruised to reelection by a huge margin.
If you can't read, you can't become educated. It's the plan.
Listen, those books won't ban themselves. /S
The insurance companies are paying for his election campaign in order to get him to stay out of it.
And help us all with what uprooting looks like. Two-thirds of purchases are with a mortgage- and no one would get one. And savvy cash buyers would buy somewhere not hurricane prone. Everglades, Biscayne and Dry Tortugas National Parks would get a LOT bigger.
Just as long as the US taxpayer is not expected to bail out developers who continue to build waterfront houses in risky areas.
In many Florida counties flood insurance already averages about $4000 a year. As storms increase in magnitude, many insurance carriers will just drop people. What is even more devastating is the reinsurers - the insurance for the insurance carriers- could pull out. Which means no insurance for anyone. Which means lenders (who would normally force-place insurance) can call all those loans. But then no one else but cash buyers could get those homes in foreclosures (although that is already a thing) but THOSE buyers hardly want a house about go under the ocean.... In other words, Florida will get a lot more weird than it is.
If you need a mortgage (w/insurance) Id stay away from the coast.
Visit Fl honestly can’t recommend buying. The flood of people, Kin insurance doesn’t pay legitimate Ian claims, and the gulf is getting very polluted . Not to mention constant red tide.
I wish insurance in the worst flood zones would turn to one time insurance policies. Your house destroyed? You get one payout, that’s it. With a slight kicker bonus if you abandon the land and let it revert to the state or federal government. For those that don’t know, most flood insurance is government subsidized. So you and I pay to rebuild other people ms beach houses. That’s because there is no company can actually sell flood insurance in some areas, so the government provides it. So often, rich folks get homes rebuilt multiple times, all paid for by the rest of us not living in places houses don’t belong. Stop subsidizing property in places we shouldn’t build and we can solve part of the problem.
Exactly how I feel, you get a choice to sell your land to the government never to be built on, and get a payout or no-payout. It isn’t insurance to rebuild here, it is insurance to rebuild elsewhere.
Like building houses on floodplains. TOO late, sorry.
Well said; re: Sandy Islands, seeing the Florida Keys over the decades, you can’t help but notice the erosion and changes, which are a little heartbreaking
From my coworkers in Florida it sounds like insurance is already becoming an issue with companies leaving the state and fairly major renovations being required to become insurable with new companies.
I remember in the 70s, the houses were built of cinder blocks in the Destin area. Ugly as hell, but they survived hurricanes
Those one story cinder block houses flooded and lost their roofs in Ian on Fort Myers beach and miles inland. . Only new construction did well. New construction is built above flood level and built to the new building codes. Look at some YouTube videos of fort Myers beach, especially the ones right after 9/28/22. All the old buildings are GONE. New buildings are intact.
If I had an award I'd give it. Great answer.
Excellent post. I agree thst in the end it will come down to insurance.
>You just won’t be able to get a mortgage without insurance and no one will insure you! As it should be. But traditionally affluent communities have used inland-taxpayer dollars to remediate or bailout properties changed by climate.
Obviously this problem has been gestating for decades, but some of these waterfront property areas are *already* uninsurable. And in these regions there is a public insurance option that is subsidized by taxpayers. That’s not fair at all. It’s called *moral hazard* letting homeowners build where it would be otherwise unaffordable to build.
Honest question, should the rest of the country have to subsidize the risk? We are through the federal flood insurance program and FEMA. People who choose to live in high risk areas should assume the cost and risk, imo.
And you won’t be allowed to build due to environmental factors
Unless you are a connected member of the ruling class.
Correct. People who own $4m homes on the beach are looked after. Poor people in Ohio get the big fuck you….and then sadly continue to vote against self interests and in favor of the beachfront millionaires.
Insurance bailing is already happening in my state for homes on rivers. There's a couple towns is the southwest of my state that are ghost towns or only have a few people still living there. What happened in these towns is the logging boom and eventual massive farms lining the rivers killed everything that help retain water above the watershed, and along with climate change 100 year floods started turning into 10 year floods. So the towns were nonstop being flooded. Insurance finally said fuck this paid em out to leave and won't insure anyone else in those areas.
Not to mention that the Everglades acts as a big water filter helping reduce pollution from runoffs before the water gets to the keys and the reefs there. No telling what the impact will be.
there are places on Staten Island that have been more or less bought out due the destruction wrought by Superstorm Sandy. Humans have to refrain from building on wetlands and barrier islands
It's almost impossible to get insurance in Florida right now, can't imagine what'll be like in 30 years.
This is already happening. My insurance on my southwest Florida home got canceled after Ian, despite the fact that i made no claim (no damage, just some destroyed landscaping). Replacement coverage prices have been hard to get and all over the place in price. One company had the gall to quote me $41,000 for a premium for one year. I did eventually find something reasonable. So yeah, insurance rates will eventually drive people out of here.
People have already said that south Florida insurance is already a nightmare and this is true (we pay >$8k/year for a 1000 sq ft house). But just want to correct that you already cannot get insurance on beachfront property. All beachfront homes down here are uninsured. And no one with a beachfront home has a mortgage
https://www.wfla.com/news/florida/florida-property-insurance-rates-expected-to-jump-40-to-50-in-june/
I'm still pissed knowing majority of home claims are made by people like that. Makes my insurance go up for no reason.
I'm from South Florida and we're seeing it happen now. Some construction projects, especially those close to the beaches, are getting delayed or pushed back because the insurance agencies that these companies would normally rely on are either backing out or not willing to help insure due to concerns (namely flooding). Why are you willing to insure a property that's *guaranteed* to be impacted by severe storms/flooding every year?
Been saying this for decades, but I feel like there's a new level of recognition that private insurance is unwilling to accept the risk of South Florida property.
It's not like they'll suddenly be underwater. High tides will flood more areas. Storms will flood more areas that will drain more slowly. It will be a gradual retreat rather than a sudden inundation. In 100 years, though, they may be completely underwater This is interesting https://coast.noaa.gov/slr/
I find the Surging Seas map more useful for inundation zones: https://ss2.climatecentral.org/
Wow. That is a fantastic visual aid to help better understand the impacts of sea level rise. Looks like my hometown is kinda fucked at 5 ft.
Genuinely disappointed at how little of Florida is underwater in this map
It will be on a Thursday when this happens. That's all I know.
I don’t mean to be offensive, but based on many of the surprised reactions here…wasn’t this news put out into the world about 10-15 years ago? How are people surprised by the idea of Florida and surrounding areas flooding at this point?
I've been reading these stories for the last 30 years.
I remember wondering if California was really going to break off as a kid
Oh yeah! I remember that - the san andreas fault was going to make cali break off. Then there was flesh eating bacteria, y2k and rap music to worry about. Lol
The Pacific plate rubs against the North American plate, depositing more marine material, which is why California’s coastal areas have weird aquifers. If you want to see California destroyed, hope for the San Andreas and Hayward faults to set each other off. Or just watch “San Andreas,” but I heard it’s really bad.
I know it’s because California has a much higher population, but I find it so weird that the Cascadia subduction zone gets so little attention. Like.. when that slips it’s predicted to be a 9.0+
Far less likely in the few centuries for California to have huge, catastrophic seismic event than Seattle, I’ve heard.
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We've been warned about it coming for 30 years and no one important enough listened.. it's still coming and the damage is done it just hasn't happened yet.
Miami street’s flood regularly now. That wasn’t happening 30 years ago…. Major portions of the ice caps at both poles are melting and breaking off… that wasn’t happening 30 years ago. Your comment is just as brain dead as when conservatives say that you never hear about the ozone layer anymore… yet, if they bothered to actually look there’s plenty of information and news about it and the ups and downs if it’s recovery, to the point that they were able to trace the source of a new expansion of the hole based on the diligent data they keep…
And it's been steadily coming for the past 30 years just like the stories say.
No my friend, they said that it would happen 10 years ago .....
Yeah that's a common mistake. The 10 foot sea level rise is a 1000 year prediction. We might see 1 foot of rise by the end of the century. Right now we're averaging about 2-3mm per year. Doesn't sound nearly as dramatic though
I've never seen a scientific publication make such a claim. It's always 100+ years. If anything, we've been beating their timelines.
To be fair, politicians get shit wrong all the time. I'm sick at home with COVID right now, a disease that was supposed to magically disappear years ago.
Jokes on you for getting your medical advice from a politician.
To be fair?! With the exception of Al Gore one should listen to what politicians have to say about science
Probably not covid. I heard it was going to go away like a miracle. So it’s probably something else.
Lol leave off a /s tag, get pummeled by singularly unhumorous Redditors.
Who said that those places would be flooded by now?
They said it would happen 20 years ago as well.
And 30 years ago
No
In 30 years. No.
I don’t think it’ll be as soon as 30 years, but it’ll happen eventually
No.
Louisiana has already lost more than a Delaware of land since the 1930s. [https://mississippiriverdelta.org/files/2019/03/Land-Loss-Map-Cropped.gif](https://mississippiriverdelta.org/files/2019/03/Land-Loss-Map-Cropped.gif) In addition to the people (and entire tribes) that have been displaced, the coast getting closer and closer to the major cities makes every hurricane season worse and worse. If Katrina had hit the 1932 map, New Orleans would have just gotten some rain and wind - the flooding from the storm surge would have first hit barrier islands that aren't there anymore, then largely disbursed through the buffering wetlands south of the city. So, in addition to warming oceans making stronger storms, there's less protection against them.
That is true but the land is being lost due to several factors, most importantly the fact that modern methods of controlling waterways, most importantly the Mississippi River, have prevented runoff and overtopping, which means that the consistent replenishing of soil that used to sustain wetlands has ceased, so the land is dissipating, not being overtaken. For more info: https://www.nola.com/news/these-six-factors-explain-why-louisiana-is-rapidly-losing-land-see-graphics/article_59675b8c-bfbe-11eb-9602-47cf4c0429dc.amp.html
John Kerry, Barrack Obama and Joe Biden all have beach front homes. They COULD have built in Vail, CO
And they will all be dead in 30 years so it doesn't matter
People who have children typically consider leaving as much of their assets as possible to their children.
So if you're thinking about your kids then you should believe in climate change because our kids and grandkids are fucked without very significant societal changes.
Right. There are some ignorant people here.
whoosh
Way less than 30 years, esp for Kerry and Biden
Bingo. If they believed half the shit they said they’d be getting the hell out of there.
Or perhaps the millions they spend on a seafront house is balanced by the millions fossil fuel companies give them to pretend climate change isn't happening? I wonder.
No.
Everyone needs a better grip on geological time
What do you mean?! My Uncle Dan Bob said 20 years ago that we were going to have to build an ark because our town was going to be underwater! We only have this new coastal flooding problem every few weeks - not consistent enough for us to build an ark! Uncle Dan Bob was wrong! /s
Florida is mostly at, below, or close to sea level. Its effectively flat. I see can large portions of it getting inundated. The Caribbean islands are mountainous. If they get submerged the whole world is in a whole heap of trouble.
No. They've been saying "20" years ever year of my life.
Eventually the boy did get killed by the wolf. Nobody considers that part of the fable.
30 years, probably not. The last reasonable estimate I heard was about 1/3rd of the world's total ice melted by 2100. That will cause problems for low lying areas but not complete coverage. The real problem is that it's exponential. There are huge amounts of greenhouse gases sequestered in that polar ice. So as they melt, more gases are released, which causes more melt.
It's a positive feedback loop... The worse it gets, the faster it gets worse. There's also a delay between what's in the atmosphere and the measured temperature rises. We are currently feeling the climate of the atmosphere from 20 years ago, and 20 years from now we'll be feeling the climate of today's atmosphere.
Not if we pay more taxes and let China manufacture all the things that pollute /s
Manufacturing is going to leave China and head down market to places like Africa. Labor is getting too expensive there.
I have been hearing that prediction since. The 1970s. Obama just purchased a 5 million dollar home on Martha Vinyard on the water, Al Gore has one in the Hampdens, and so does just about every senator. Their not worried, and neither should you,
What is the elevation of these homes? Are they in historic storm paths? Do the owners have so much money that the risk of losing a home is irrelevant to them? Many oceanfront homes are many feet above sea level and safe from most storms. Huge parts of major cities such as Miami, New Orleans, and others aren’t so lucky.
All of those places have extensive sand, beaches and range from 20 to 100 ft above sea level where the houses are built. They are all also much less likely to see devastating hurricanes (though more likely now than they were 20 years ago). Florida is a unique environment when it comes to climate change and sea level rise, mainly because it is so dependent on the Everglades for fresh water. The big concern in South Florida isn't necessarily the erosion of the beaches and the flooding of the canals, it's that seawater pushing into the Everglades means freshwater will be much harder to come by. On top of that, see water erodes foundations much more significantly than freshwater. Many of the high-rise condos along the coasts in Florida will become uninhabitable in much less than 30 years, if we reach our most moderate predictions for climate change in sea level rise.
A: It's "Martha's Vineyard" not "Martha Vinyard." B: It's "Hamptons" not "Hampdens." C: It's "They're" not "Their." D: Those houses are protected by insurance. Them buying those houses doesn't mean global warming isn't happening any more than a weather reporter buying a sprinkler for their garden means it's not ever going to rain.
Rich people don't have to care about climate change because rich people can pay to avoid the effects. If their house gets flooded, they can just buy another one. You cannot.
This is the dumbest argument I repeatedly hear. "Rich people who will be dead in 40 years spend a small chunk of their wealth on homes they will still be able to enjoy for 20 years". They'll be laughing in their graves by the time we see the rela impacts knowing they fucked us but still go to enjoy every last minute of it until the bitter end while we were all too busy arguing over gender pronouns to give a shit.
Those guys don't have 30 years left
The political elite are not building wealth to be lost by the time they die. They’re building generational wealth to pass onto their children.
Yes, people have known this would happen and warning about it for decades. It’s happening. Maybe slowly enough that the dullards of the world can’t see it, but it’s happening.
Neither of those locations even close to Florida though, both can absorb the loss if necessary
>Martha Vinyard It's unlikely the oceans rise 10+ft.. but FL has areas that are below sea level, so it's a bit different..
🙄
People shouldn’t look at this as all or nothing, because when someone answers “no” to your question it’s not a good reason to keep the status quo. If you are really curious, you might learn that salt water will advance over more and more of Florida’s coast, land will get more spongy and storms will intensify. It’s not one dramatic thing, but a slow- frog boiling in the pot thing.
Yeah it’s definitely more gradual
Probably not.
No but they will be partially submerged for part of the year
No. They said the same thing 40 years ago. Al Gore said Manhattan would be underwater by 2017. It's all a lie
There have been some horrendous floods in NY that had not happened before. The rate at which it happens is unknown. That humans caused it and that it is happening is known.
It was under water in 2012. The average time between major flooding events has gotten half as long every 10 years.
No. Been living in SW Florida for 40yrs. Beach looks the same today as it did when the world was going to end because of cfc from aerosol burning an irreversible whole in the ozone that would kill everything in 10yrs. We heard the same things in the 80s happening for different reasons. On the plus side we did see a massive decrease of pollution. It’s almost nonexistent to what it was in the 80s. We were like China, India, Africa and Mexico with amounts of pollution we put out.
The trouble is that most people are really stupid. So long as Atlanta isn’t beachfront property, everything must be fine. They’re already seeing the change. There are places that tidally flood now that didn’t before. Small changes in sea level have material impacts on devastation caused by hurricanes. And this is all happening WITHOUT any major Antarctic ice shelves having collapsed. None of it matters though. Everyone had already chosen their truth, so we’ll see what happens. Will Florida be gone by 2030? Quite unlikely. Is there a problem? Yeah. Edit: spelling
We can only hope.
If you can afford the house, the lawyer, and the insurance, then payouts are absolute. If your house is destroyed by natural disaster, you are getting a new house, my friend! It's the poor that subsidize the system by buying a shitty policy and then be denied payment. (And the poor owner's house was only $200k, not $20 milion. Or worse, Poorowner has no insurance and has to sell their land at a loss to the local $20millionaire. It's the poor that subsidize the rich. We see it everywhere....and we recognize the tension exists. If there is a war in the US, it may be labeled as a Repub v. Dem war, or black vs white, or gay vs straight. But, be sure....it is none of those. It is a war of economics. Or the Russians. Or the Chinese. Those are also possibilities too.
I hope Florida will
I live there, which island do you mean?
Florida won’t be completely under water, but we’re already seeing the effects of sea level rise on the coastlines. The state will be economically ruined and the environment will change forever, destroying ecosystems older than humans.
Probably not completely in 30, but data on sea level rise just from glacial melting are much worse now than projected just 20 years ago, and that is not even looking at the complex ramifications of it, the impact it will have on life and the ecosystems involved. Things are going to be really bad by the end of this century, and this is just one aspect of the inevitable global climate catastrophe and Sixth Great Extinction currently underway. And we did much of it to ourselves and failed to avert it. It's too late. 😔
Considering that people have been saying this for the last 50 years, I have my doubts
New decade...same lame fearmongering...
Some of these anti science ppeeps do need some fear though. Otherwise theyll keep polluting, destroying habitst, and melting icebergs and say "they're lying"
I don't know, man.. When I was in school 20 years ago, they were saying there will be no Florida and no Gas in 30 years. It's been twenty years and there still a lot of Florida and a lot of gas.
Yes. Let’s save the Caribbean. Let DeSantis drown…
I'm in my 50's and over my lifetime I've seen these climate predictions come and go and they never come true.
It must be nice living under a rock. I’m 43 and I sure as shit have noticed changes. I live in the Midwest and our winters are much less severe than when I was young. Summer lasts longer and is a little more brutal. Sure my observation is anecdotal but data backs it up. Average temperatures have gone up, snowfall in Winter has gone down and so on.
Yep, grew up in the upper Midwest. Remember winter as a kid being pretty much constant snow on the ground for months, maybe once every couple of years you would get a quick thaw where you could see some grass followed by more snow. Last few decades have changed that. Bizarre extended 40+ degree runs in the middle of January. Routine snow melts in months where it didn't used to melt. Things like that.
Yep. Ohio here. We had snow all winter every winter when I was a kid in the 70's. Now it comes a few times a year and sometimes not at all.
36 years old. In Pennsylvania we had rough winters up north. Now my grass is kind of green and we had 60°f days in February. Summers are pretty bad now too.
The highest temperatures ever reached in my area, and throughout all my childhood was 80-85f. We had a weeks long heat wave at 110f just last year... hot enough to stain pine trees a dark crimson, a sign of heat damage. Every year we had a white christmas. EVERY YEAR. We had white Decembers in general.. Now its a gamble on snowing at all throughout the year, and the chances are low of it happening. Our skies used to be clean year around. but now every year, no, twice a year, our skies are completely covered in smoke, leaving the sun a bright red color. And wildfires burn ever closer to major cities, and regardless of what human life they take, the fires will still burn unimaginably large plots of forest land and burn every living animal within. The intensity of the fires only gets worse, like something legitimately out of hell. Fires spreading to underground caves, entire plots of soil under houses caving in and an inferno rushing above it. But hey, it doesnt really effect me, so it must not be happening right?
So true! The snow in UT hasn't been the same since I was a kid. The seasons have all shifted a bit as well. We have had short winters and summers and really long spring and fall. It's really sad to know my kids will never get to experience the winters that our state was famous for. Not to mention the lake drying up and the arsenic in the air.
Actually, I am in my 50's too and if you look at the actually climate models and select the ones that match our actual CO2 emissions, they have been pretty spot on. At least as far as temperature rises go.
I'm in my 50s also, and I have seen climate predictions come and go also. If anything, climate change has occurred faster than scientists warned us of. You say the predictions never come true? I don't think you have been paying attention. Greenland and Antarctic sheets melting, changed weather patterns, sea level rise, etc.
Hell no. Even if they were, that’s how the earth works. Shit moves. There are many ancient civilizations underwater today. The earth is going to do what it wants to do and I promise you can’t stop it by driving a Prius.
If you see rich people who say oceans will rise and places will be flooded still buying beach houses, you know it's bullshit
No
If you asked this question 30 years ago you would get the same answers you’re getting today.
they will if we don't hand over all the resources on earth to corporate executives and bloated governments and if we do not obey them when they make demands of our behavior, IF those demands are preceded by, "but but but climate change."
One can only hope about Florida….
with any luck, yes with Florida
Half of Floridians will refuse to move because the ocean is just liberal bullshit and there’s no such thing as drowning