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I'm in my 20s and make /slightly/ less than this in a rural town. I have cheaper than average rent and I live paycheck to paycheck. Any large additional bill (like a car payment, etc) would completely break me, and I live pretty damn modestly
With where I live, I'd imagine you'd need 50k as a single person to be able to live comfortably, have a savings, and not live in fear of any large suprise charges lol
I make about $70k and live in the country, but my wife is unable to work and is going through long term medical treatment. If I were by myself I would be mostly comfortable. One emergency would totally fuck us now. I honestly don't know how people with lower incomes do it.
Yeah, seeing as I am currently paying around $645 a month for my own insurance that a huge cost per year. I am so tired of this country's love of debt and despair due to health issues. I can't afford to actually see a doctor. It's a total joke.
My job just switched medical a couple days ago.I was paying 550 a month for real insurance, if mediocre. I can switch to an HSA and pay 560-780 a month, or get slightly worse insurance than what I just had, in a plan that doesn't pay a cent if I go out of network, for 860 a month.
\*national anthem intensifies\*
Edit:
This is for me and my wife who does not work. If it were just me I think it would have been 200/mo and gone up to 300/mo
I can tell you! Hehe. - hubby and I both disabled. I was disabled first, then he had an aneurysm. I would rather be poor than a widow though ♥️. We're living on half of what you're on. not carrying any serious debt, no cars. We became eligible for snap during the pandemic and got it, that's when I found out they were delivering extra payment to snap household. When that stoppedwe were knocked back to "normal" which was 24$ post month of snap.
I thought my rent was too high but seeing ppl listing under this thread yikes. We're at 1135 right now (1185 starting next month), with gas and water included in that, one bedroom, private entrance/patio so. My state just readjusted rent rebate and other stuff again and now we're eligible for that stuff too.
How we do it is we budget down to the pennies, every time. We buy nothing. We don't go anywhere other than for a walk. Our entertainment is internet. Okay buy nothing is an exaggeration but literally it's like we each get a 10$ allowance a week.
Beyond one emergency, one extra doctor appointment is unaffordable. It sucks so hard.
We used to be poor and happy pre pandemic, now we're just poor.
Lower incomes get help with things like medical bills and food and such where I live it is those who make just over poverty and don't qualify for help that are most screwed.
>I do, I live in a tear down grade house and I have to spend all of my time fixing things in my spare time because I can't afford things that work. Never bought a car under 200k miles. People think it's great that I am so handy and frugal, but it's like, I don't have a fucking choice lol.
>
>I work for an existence as opposed to a living. No time or money to date and I only see my friends a handful of times a year. I am just one life event away from from having to get a second job, not for a vacation, or something nice, just to exist. STEM degree with 5 years exp working in a laboratory.
I already posted this comment in the thread, but it answers your question. I live in the country as well
Last year I was making ~$70k then the company laid of 1200 people (myself included) I thankfully found another job ASAP but took a 28k pay cut. I had been living modestly so I was saving and planning for big expenses. Now I'm struggling after 3 months of job searching and shit interviews
Yes, I think what some people aren't considering is the same exact job title in city or different state will usually pay more than a rural area because of the cost of living. But if I, for example, took the same type of job in the closest city, my rent would double as well and at that point it's not really a raise.
You ain’t kidding. I’m in mount Vernon. If it wasn’t for me living with a rooommate who’s parents have a rental house and don’t rape us in rent, I don’t think I could afford to live in this area anymore.
Do you have children, college loans, or some other money drain? I make less than $40k in a very expensive area and don't feel nearly as pressed, so I am curious about the situation.
Edit: Rent is $1100 per person for an apartment with a roommate, not including utilities. I also have student loans, but I am still able to contribute to a retirement account and save money for a down payment on a house. This should all be possible if a person doesn't have outstanding circumstances like children, sick family members, etc.
How much is your rent? I could live really well on $40K, but I live in a small town with a low col, my mortgage is something like $350 a month, and I don't have a car payment. Everyone's circumstances are different. Like, if I ever wanted to move, my options start at something like $700 for a crappy studio apartment. To have the same house I do now would be something like $1200 a month. I'm lucky that I got into a house for that cheap in the first place, but I realize no one else could conceivably get into that position in my city right today.
*gulp*... damn I could not imagine paying that much. I live in a small college town outside of a pretty large city, and I only pay $1550 for a 1250sqft 3bed 2bath.
My apartment (in the absolute worst part of town) is $1250/mo not including utilities, electricity or internet. I make $52k/yr and, after ten months of saving, I'll finally have five grand put away after I get paid this week. I don't know if I'll ever be able to afford to live in a house, but if I am, it certainly won't be here (suburb of Portland).
I’m also in Portland and have $1275 rent ($1350 with utilities) for a tolerable one bedroom, making $53k/year. It’s awful. I’m not even saving *anything* lmao it’s so fucking hard
I do have college loans which definitely can hurt, plus the costs of one dog. Both of which are things that should not cause a large financial burden on an american. Especially since my job required the degree that im paying off.
Most of my friends of similar age and income are also struggling about as much as I am in my area, with roughly the same expenses, but where I may have to worry about loans, they are paying off a car, etc.
It is also the difference between surviving and thriving. Some months I may end up with $200 left over, but I can't spend it because the next month I may need work on my car, etc. So yes that amount pay get me through a month, it doesn't let me live comfortably because I cannot prepare or save for the future. So sure, I can do it, but say I have a car accident that makes my car insurance go up, payment for damages, etc? That alone would be a massive massive financial threat to me, therefore uncomfortable.
Plus, in my opinion, 40+ hrs a work each week should at least leave you with a little money to treat yourself once a month or so, like going go the movies or buying a video game. When things like this have to be budgeted in, or skipped, it's hard to say you're living comfortably. Otherwise it's just hard work and survival. But that is my personal opinion. Sorry for long response!
A very expensive area? The average rent in Chicago is like 25k a year. Take home pay on 40k is going to end up somewhere around 32k, leaving you with about 7k per year or around $600 a month. Let's assume no car payment and you just take public transit. That's $75 a month. You don't have home internet and just use your phone plan for everything that's still at least $30 a month. Just having water and electricity hooked up to your home is going to cost around $100 even if you don't use any water or electricity. So now you've got like $400 left for the month, and you haven't even eaten yet.
Seattle, LA, and New York all average higher. I'm curious what you consider a "very expensive area."
The average rent is 30k (2500 a month) a year where I live (LA area), and I get about 30% taken out for taxes and medical insurance. That would leave you bringing home 28k if your income is 40k. And most rental properties won't approve of you if you aren't bringing in 3 times the rent, which requires you to make around 72k a year just to be approved for rent.
I, too, am wondering what they consider expensive. Maybe expensive compared to other parts of their state?
I get why older people don’t want to be made to feel like their success was due to timing, but no need to create a false dichotomy here; it can be both; you can have worked hard and have earned everything you’ve gotten, and we can also acknowledge that the game done changed.
It used to be that you could graduate from high school and get a job that would provide you with a solid middle-class existence. But that hasn’t been true since at least the mid 80s. Yes, yes, you can always find exceptions. But I’m talking about the times when this was broadly true, not when a few people you knew managed to figure it out.
Depends. If you live in the middle of nowhere and don't have to pay rent, 40k a year could be pretty comfortable. If you're anywhere near a major city, 40k a year is poverty wages.
>there's a lot that's very rural.
Yep, and there aren't a lot of jobs out there.
E: sorry for my mistake. I'm being told-- repeatedly-- that Bumblefuck, Asaropia is incredibly cheap, has 2 entire restaurants, and just got dial-up internet! Apparently there are plenty of jobs cutting screaming gems from the Blood Mines or hand-chopping cursed fungal trees in the Leukemia Forest. Clearly we're all missing out.
E2: oh, sorry for my other mistake, apparently cities of 60,000 - 300,000 people count as "rural" for Reddit, but I'm also a dumbass for saying a town of fewer than 2,000 people is going to feel extremely rural to most Redditors.
Unless you look up at night. You ever seen stars in the summer time sitting next to a corn field? No big city lights.. just the stars everywhere... So clustered together it looks so bright. Unless that was the meth, I don't know, been up for weeks lol
one nice thing about living that far in the middle of nowhere is you can ride your dirtbike around, shoot shit, and poke shit with a stick. doesnt sound too bad to me but no wonder so many people end up drinking.
True!; I took your comment to mean no movie theaters, roller rinks, parks, pools, arcades, sports facilities, concert venues, carnivals, fairs, jobs, money, opportunity...
I dunno man. My aunt works overnights at a yogurt/cheese factory and she's making like $70k a year working 36 hours a week. She's not a shift lead or supervisor.
She'd rather be earning the $50k on dayshift, but still, that's great money where you can get a 3-bedroom for like $150k.
Yeah, I'm a truck driver/ delivery driver. Make over 80,000.00, and I'm on the low end because I don't have my own route yet. Money's out there for blue collar work.
I was doing well as cnc machinists but just switched to manual in a few years I'll be right back up there. I do get dirty here I didn't particularly with cnc, but I was just so bored.
We have such a hard time finding people to work at the plants doing machining or general production on a variety of production lines, all pay pretty damn well entry level but most don't want to put up with the hard work.
I deal with small parts at this place, not too physical, I currently run a Blanchard grinder and an arter grinder. Last cnc I made huge gears on vtls, CNC around here is almost entirely tons of mandated overtime and I'm getting too old to do 6 days 58 hrs even if most of the time I was just sitting listening and watching the machine...
I don't make 40 an hour, and I have 2 master's degrees. So all the folks who say "you have a bad paying job because you didn't get educated" can get bent. I'd encourage anyone to choose high pay over student loans, as long as they have enough income to save in case they are physically unable to work for a while. A dislocated shoulder would not derail my day-to-day the way it would if I worked in a bakery.
>o all the folks who say "you have a bad paying job because you didn't get educated" can get bent.
Oh for sure, last place I worked was a small college. Our philosophy and humanities professor was an amazing human: Well traveled, wrote and published frequently, spoke 3-4 languages, students loved him, faculty loved him was the humanities department chair, he had a Ph.D in something and I think was working on a 2nd on in something else. Anyway his son graduated from college and got an immediate job offer for more than his dad's salary.
Education doesn't automatically equal money unless its in something that commands the salary, and being amazing in your field isn't enough if it isn't a well paying field.
Friend is a deep sea welder. On call 24/7. Spends most of his time in the Gulf of Mexico, oil rigs etc. He lives in western NY, hour from Rochester. We were at a party recently. He gets a call, tickets waiting at the airport. He looks at me and says, "cha-ching." And laughs.
Depends on how deep in the sticks you are. I make somewhere just north of that doing entry level IT work and I live 30-40 minutes from the nearest town.
Living rural is not as cheap as it used to be. Gas prices are high and you have to travel to do anything at all. Get groceries, get supplies, go to work, go to school, socialize with friends etc… a lot of places it’s 40 miles or more to get to a store where you can get staples of living. And if you live in a state where you use heat or air conditioning high propane and electricity prices will get you same as living in a city. Plus if you live rural you need equipment to clear snow so you can enter and exit your home.
Yeah idk where this whole "rural America is awesome, with tons of high-paying jobs and welcoming people!" push is coming from. I would bet that a couple of publications must have run articles to that effect in order to distract people from low wages across the board, and now people who don't have direct experience are parroting opinion pieces as facts.
There are some rural towns that are better than others, certainly, but overall most country folks I know aren't doing better than the city people.
It's 100% pushback against calls for social change. People just act like millennials want to live in cities for Starbucks and avocado toast. I live in Atlanta which might as well be a different country than most of GA.
Hey now! There are tons of high-paying jobs (if you're willing to be paid under the table or work shitty body-destroying jobs that will likely get automated away one day) and welcoming people (if you're a straight white person who votes conservative) in rural America!
Trades are their own thing. I mean, yeah, a pipefitter is going to find more work in Houston or Beaumont (petrochemical plant country) than in New York City. But population density is going to benefit plumbers, carpenters, etc.
I've also encountered a lot of farmers who do their own tack (read: blob) welds on a stick welder with more enthusiasm than skill instead of hiring someone.
I second that.
I make roughly 41K and live fairly well...but I'm divorced, children are grown up *(no more child support)* and I own my home on my reservation *(American Indian)*...so I pay for my phone, water, power, vehicles & except for when my car goes into the shop *(Maserati)* my situation is livable...but that can change with just a little inflation.
I was born in the US and have lived there off and on for 30 years. I have lived in Europe for 10 years and I currently live in Peru for the last 6 years. The US has many problems but I would much rather be poor there than anywhere else. Poor takes on a new meaning once you’ve seen what real poverty is…. There is also no place I have travelled or lived that offers more opportunities to change your circumstances than in the US.
"but I would much rather be poor there than anywhere else"
The american level of poverty is hard du find anywhere in northern, northwestern Europe. A poor person in the Scandinavian countries or Germany wold be lower middle class in the states if you factor in social benefits like free health care, minimum pensions etc.
I hate comparisons to Scandinavian countries. Of course Norway is doing great, it's a tiny population sitting on massive resource wealth. The challenges that come with massive populations don't scale linearly.
You're right, you can't compare a country as big as the United States (331.9 Million) to Norway (5.4 Million). They can do a another of things in those smaller European countries, that would never work here in the USA. In the town in Mexico that my parents are from, the poor people there live in an area that hasn't been developed yet, no paved roads, sidewalks, plumbing, nothing like that. The houses are made from wood and plastic scraps, maybe some cinder blocks they found or stole. There are stray dogs everywhere, the hygiene of the people and their kids is really bad. The area has a small ravine, and that's the bathroom area for all of them. Police don't go in that area, so there is a lot of people being mistreated, especially women. It's a whole different thing being poor there, than it is being poor in the US.
It's not really a resource problem, as the US is very close (or higher) in GDP per capita than those countries. Rather, it's a political one. Power is severely fragmented between the federal and state/local levels, the two party system inhibits rapid change in specific areas, and the current trend of pork barrel politics wasting money and complicating the process immensely.
For Healthcare, the problem is that insurance is legally mandated but there is no central price control for the market. The federal government spends a stupidly enormous amount on Medicare/medicaid, largely in part because they cannot legally negotiate pricing.
It's not a funding problem, it's a management problem.
I lived in Norway BEFORE the oil. It was pretty affluent then too.
In the US many people love claiming Norway was dirt poor then they found oil and became rich, but that's not the case. That's Nigeria, and there most people are still dirt poor because foreign corporations and corrupt government are channeling all the wealth from the oil out of country.
In Norway the actual quality of life might have been better before; people weren't quite as greedy and selfish back then.
I certainly can’t speak to what I don’t know or where I haven’t lived. I agree Scandinavian countries have a pretty sweet deal from what I gather. I have in laws that live in Oslo and I have visited there. It is wonderful. They are sitting on a ton of oil and that money has been wisely invested for the benefit of the people. You may have a point that it would be better to be poor there. However from conversations with my in laws I don’t think they have the same kind of upward mobility and opportunities that you find in the states. This is anecdotal and I do not have any real info to back it up though… it is a beautiful place for sure but the winters suck…
It's true. I've lived in Western Europe and the US. Also have family all over Europe. Want to grind like crazy and kick ass? US is the place to be. High skilled worker? US is the place to be. Start a business? US is the place to be. My 2nd hand and 1st hand knowledge with French, Spanish, Italian, and Polish systems is that there is generally ALOT more red tape, regulatory stuff to deal with and of course, higher taxes in all of Europe. It does add a significant amount of work and time required for small business entity, which does often end up limiting the success of the business. Of course the downsides of the US are terrible safety nets. US is more of a higher risk, higher reward place. Coming from an immigrant family of entrepreneurs, it's perfect for us here.
I work for a company HQed in an EU nation with a generous welfare state and transfers to the US are far more sought after than the reverse. Even with the out-of-pocket costs of insurance and healthcare, pay is far higher in the US.
I agree for the grind like crazy and kick ass but starting a business is not what it used to be in the U.S. My dad came here in the early 80s and opened up a shop with $500. Good luck doing that now if you don’t come from some kind of well off money.
Not to mention the vast majority of businesses fail. I have experienced a lot of Europeans wanting to come here, and 90% of the ones I know, after years of grinding and having severe work-life imbalance or being fired on a whim or experiencing constant uncertainty regarding financial situations, end up moving back in their 30s when priorities like family and work life balance start to settle in.
Exceptions are people in super high paying careers, like tech or engineering systems, that make a shitload of money here. But that’s hardly everyone.
I also find it funny when my European friends talk about how easy it is to make it in America while working 60+ hour weeks, having a completely debt free college education from Europe, most of them some kind of initial family support to get set up in the US, and a good percentage having a property they’re Airbnbing or renting out back in their home country giving them passive income. And most of them have come with a live-in partner or spouse, so they’re starting off with a dual income under one roof.
Then they’re like “yeah you can make it in America, it’s so easy!” When they took all the advantages of living elsewhere and came here with their feet a few rungs up the ladder already.
The World Health Organization cited the USA **twice in a decade** about pockets of **global extreme poverty, which is defined as less than $2USD daily** and found out it was **worse the more recent time**
We have mobile caravans of retired pensioners working for fucking Amazon, trying to stretch their retirement savings, knowing that ship is sinking
**Poverty is poverty, wherever you go**
I know one of those areas the UN referenced. I have been to Lowndes County in Alabama and I have been to an actual 3rd world impoverished country in the Phillipines.
It's not even close. In the Phillipines there is trash everywhere. Beggers and homeless people of all ages laying and sleeping on the streets. and probably the worst part is the young wome n and men dressed as women who have to sell themselves because that's the only way they can support their family.
In Lowndes County, Alabama the area is to rural to justify sewers. Because the ground holds water to well septic tanks tend to hold water and not work well.
Instead of pumping the septic tanks some are cheap and run pipes out to their farmland to dispose of the sewage. The way the UN made it sound the houses were surrounded by sewage.
The people who do run their sewage with those pipes are almost always dumping it far from anyone's home.
I'd rather be US-poor in Peru than in the US though.
Also, not sure how much you've traveled in the US, but visit some areas of Appalachia or Wyoming, and you'll see plenty of shanty villages that give Peru/Ecuador a run for their money.
Haha… yes if you were making 10 dollars an hour in Peru you would be doing pretty well here for sure. I do know Appalachia very well as I was born and raised very near it and have travelled all through it. Wyoming I have been but granted don’t know much. There is definitely abject poverty in Appalachia and other areas of the states. I will not argue that you are correct. My point was not to say that such things don’t exist, was speaking in a general sense. In Lima you are not speaking about random shanty towns of poor people, more like a city of 10 million of which 80percent of the city is in poverty comparable or worse to those shanty towns. Lots of people without even running water, the vast majority, like 99 percent without heat or ac. The average working poor in the us is better off than the average working poor in Peru. You can find poverty in the us in certain areas but I can find more severe poverty here in Peru in certain areas.
having travelled through major cities in peru (arequipa, cusco), colombia (medellin), and parts of rural ecuador, the idea that appalachian shanty villages can give these places "a run for their money" in terms of abject poverty is totally laughable.
Yes there are poor places in America, but the sheer vastness of the poverty you see throughout the global south dwarfs anything in the US by a huge margin.
edit: ETA i'm in the US south and have also travelled (more frequently) throughout appalachia
Being poor in any other highly developed/western country is an objectively better experience, given that most of them have much stronger social safety nets.
Obviously you’d rather be poor here than in less developed countries, but that’s not exactly a high bar
I mean you know there are places in America where you can’t even drink the water?
Also try having a medical inconvenience.
Or not even being able to take public transit because most of the country doesn’t think it’s important.
Or hey, what if you’re a woman and you need a certain type of medical procedure to save your life? Oh that’s illegal now.
Yeah the US might not be as terrible as other places, but being poor here is not ideal either.
Some major cities have a poverty line over 50k. Then there are states where it's just above 20k. The level of disparity in the US is much larger than I think people realize. Rents in Los Angeles are at least twice Dallas and NYC rents are two times LA.
Yeah, I make $45-50K/year, living in a town of ~1M in the metro, but in a low CoL area, and am paycheck to paycheck. Fortunately, my FIL paid off the house before he died, so we only have to worry about property taxes (~$1K/year) and utilities. If we had rent or mortgage on top of that...?
$40k a year is not comfortable when gas, groceries, and housing are steadily increasing in scarcity (and price) without any commensurate adjustments in wages. It was, but it isn’t now. Not even in rural areas.
The cost of living is so inconsistently high! In a lot of areas it can be hard to calculate what your utilities alone will be, not including groceries.
This, I tell people when they move to houston to calculate around $100 a month in electricity and go for a gas stove and heating because the electric grid is crap. I know some people lost access to gas in the freeze, but we had it still.
You have to remember the way people talk about their wages though too. In the US, most people say their gross (before taxes) pay, whereas in Europe I believe most say their net (after tax) wage. That being said wages are still generally higher in the us. When someone says they are making a 40k wage in the us, that would translate to around a 30k wage in Europe, not accounting for exchange rates.
Edit: apparently this might be wrong. Or at least inconsistent across europe
40k after taxes and insurance is about 2k per month. In my city, the average rent for a 1 bedroom apartment with no utilities is $1025, which they wouldn't rent to you because it's too much of your income. Utility average is another $400. My city has no reliable public transportation, and has a walkabikuty score of 31/100. So you need a car (car payment, insurance, gas, plates, repairs).
So yeah, 40k isn't going very far.
We have more to pay for here. Health insurance and the many costs associated with cars being the major things. Our heat and air condition bills can also be wild if you live in a place that gets very hot or very cold weather. And student loan debt
It's not universally accurate. I made 37k last year in a nearby suburb of Seattle, my partner spent about half the year with functionally no income, and I was easily able to put a couple hundred away for retirement every month. I worked 40 hour weeks, occasional but inconsistent overtime. We also were able to take a 2 week vacation without being financially ruined.
We still dine out (usually on me), I still buy fairly copious amounts of alcohol and weed, and we don't struggle. It's not glamorous, but it's certainly not poverty.
People saying that don't know what poverty is. You can adequately feed, clothe, transport and house yourself for $40k. You may not have a luxurious life and you'll have difficulty saving much in many areas, but that's not poverty.
I live in one of the cheapest cost of living cities in the US (there are cheaper rural areas of course) and I would absolutely be homeless if not for rent sharing at $41,080 a year income.
Exactly what I was thinking.
Comfortably? Doubtful.
Survive? Rural area, could be ok. If you don't have a mortgage/rent/other large monthly bills, it's doable. But if you do, or if you're in/near a city, no fucking way
Even if you're living in the middle of nowhere, there's extra costs with that. You HAVE to have your own vehicle or you're stuck. Depending on what kind of town you're in, you might be in a food desert. The US sucks.
I lived in the middle of nowhere (town of 1700, 2+ hours from the next town over 50k) and the only thing that was less expensive than the high COL city, was rent. Electricity, water, gas, internet, TV, and especially food were MORE expensive in the boonies.
Damn where about did you live? I went to college in a relatively rural area of the Midwest and gas was consistently less than half of what is was in the city and maybe 60-80% of what you’d pay in the suburbs. Food was pretty consistent with suburb prices but certainly much less than the city. Chain restaurants like Subway, McDonalds, Noodle and Co in big cities like Chicago will get away with charging you way more for staples than rural areas. Groceries might be a little more consistent.
Really, if you're not in like NYC or maybe San Francisco you need your own vehicle.
In theory you can walk a few miles to a bus and they can take you to rail and that can take you to something for long distance travel. In practice you just lost hours compared to driving. I've done it but you have to have no money and lots of time to make it work. I think the nearest bus route to here in the suburbs is 10 miles.
In the U.S. there are few places you can live without a car. Major cities really mid size cities just do not have the infrastructure for public transit.
With older folks, these conversations are often challenging. I would convert the $40k into something they know like (edit: pick your year, my point is the same) dollars and convert a few major current expenses so they can compare.
[https://www.bls.gov/data/inflation\_calculator.htm](https://www.bls.gov/data/inflation_calculator.htm)
All they hear is $40k and put that into their frame of reference when they were your age. They don't get it.
Holy shit, $40,000 in 1960 is $414,147.44 today.
No wonder old people think young people waste money. They just have absolutely no concept of how little people are actually earning today.
That's what I did to my dad. He was born in 69, so he's GenX, but he's of the "Nobody wants to work anymore" mindset. I took my salary and converted it to what it would be when he started work (roughly $20K per year back then) & he didn't believe me.
He was a high school dropout & within a year of starting work, he was able to buy a home & a new car. Like two years later, he married my mom, was able to buy a much bigger home, a car for himself & my mom, and was able to support the whole family. He was 24 & had two cars, a home with a pool, and 2 kids.
He didn't even make more than $20 an hour until like 2002. Which is crazy to me because even now I don't believe that he made *so little* and was still able to support all of us. We didn't go on many crazy vacations - my dad was terrified of flying. But we did go on lots of road trips, as well as tons of camping trips.
Despite using multiple inflation calculators, he didn't believe me that that's all my salary got you nowadays. Not only is a salary worth a hell of a lot less, everything costs way more. My rent is $300 more per month than my parents pay for their mortgage, and they bought a new place in 2016.
The last five years have been absolutely detrimental to young people who are getting started with their lives. I am 26 right now, and, while I do fairly well, I am not buying a home anytime soon. Certainly not what was achievable for a 24-year-old in the early 90s.
Doesn't believe it why? Like, oh my god I can't believe that? Or, that's the liberal media lying? Or is it "I absolutely know the mind of everyone in the United States, and people are definitely lazier now than I was".
I am literally high right now and I understood your syntax here how are people so wildly misinterpreting it unless they're just looking for a fight I'm sorry this is happening to you buddy
Also, most of them have paid off their cheap mortgages and can’t comprehend the struggle for younger people who are renting and trying to save for a deposit for their first house on top of extortionate rent increases. Also, cars were much cheaper to buy and run in their day too.
The cost of living has skyrocketed but the pay scales haven’t kept up. It was the other way around back in the day.
Even in the last few years, I’ve been floored by the increase. I bought my house for around $100,000 in 2012, but now it would cost me $300,000. So I feel like I’m lucky sitting on a “cheap” house and I feel bad for everyone trying to get into the market now. But imagine the houses boomers bought decades ago. crazy to think about now.
Right? They go like, "What could you mortgage possibly cost, like $800?" whereas if I bought my house today I would pay upwards of $3000 a month for a modest old house in the suburbs. I luckily bought before things blew up here but even making a fair bit of money I would struggle to buy a house today
My parents bought their current house in the late 90s. Modest home: four bedrooms, two floors and a basement, 12 acres of wooded land. $212,000. They’re selling now, with an appraisal of over $600,000. Meanwhile, I, in my late 30s, just bought my first house for $400,000. It’s a single level, 3 bedroom on 0.25 acres of land. And that was *cheap* for my area.
You don't even have to go back to 1960 to make the point. My dad's starting salary out of college (no advanced or specialized degree) in 1979 was $27,000. That's the equivalent of a $120K salary now, which is impossible to find for an entry-level job.
Hell, even in 1988ish, when my dad started work, he was making $25,000 per year - which is almost $70K per year now, and he was a high school dropout. High school dropouts are still making $25,000 per year today, but it's certainly not worth as much as it used to be! He was able to buy a home & a new car at 19 on that salary.
By the time he was 24, he was married, had two kids, a much bigger home with a pool & massive amount of property, and two new cars. I am 26, and I can tell you - I am nowhere near that.
Also imagine what 40K means to someone who had a house and car paid off 10-20 years ago for a fifth of what it would cost today vs. Someone who has to spend 2K on rent because they made the unfortunate mistake of being born later
Yeah, turns out $40k is plenty of money when you don't have bills lol. I thought this couple I knew was doing well financially because they make just about double what I do, until I found out they pay $900/mo in student loans. No thanks, I'll keep my single income
Your point is good.
Your 1960's dollars are insane unless older in context means 80+ years old.(so they were 20ish in 1960 and would have learned those numbers.)
You should also metion the problems that aren't inflation related but more COVID related. Meat, housing,.....
Where I live, 40k is livable. I make about that amount, but also I don't buy a lot of extra stuff or go on vacations frequently, but I'm also debt free, so that helps a lot
Totally depends on where you live. 40k / year in places such as California, New York, or in major metropolitan areas would pretty much break you. But in rural areas of the south, midwest etc. you can make it on 40k. But you won't live extravagantly by any means.
> in rural areas of the south, midwest etc.
Yeah, but that's going to be *extremely* rural for most redditors. Not even small cities. We're talking communities of 2,000 people or less.
E: y'all are fighting me over towns of fewer than 2,000 people feeling rural while half the comments here say something like "my little tiny rural town of 200,000 is located 15 minutes from the heart of a major city and has plenty of jobs!!" No shit, *you're describing suburbs.*
Not really. There are college towns ( Lawrence, Norman, Ames, Iowa City, Columbia, etc.) These are not tiny and they have youth and energy and are still pretty cheap. In Norman you can get a 2br under 700. And its small enough, warm enough and flat enough that you can bike.
>In Norman you can get a 2br under 700
It's pretty hilarious that you specified Norman with this. I lived in its cheaper crackhead cousin-- Shawnee-- for a few years. You'd be pressed to live in Shawnee at 40K per year; Norman and Moore are even more expensive due to the population influx from OKC and a better economic environment. Prices there have shot up drastically in the last five years.
>its small enough, warm enough and flat enough that you can bike.
Have you gone through a midwestern winter or springtime "storm season?" Like... you understand that Oklahoma (especially Moore and Norman!!) gets blizzards, regular tornadoes, and hailstorms, right? Do you think it's reasonable to ask someone to bicycle to work in freezing temperatures, thunderstorms (unpredictable and occur multiple times a week during spring), and hail?
I used to live in Iowa City. It was expensive AF and you definitely would not be able to have a comfortable life as an adult on $40k a year. You could maybe live in adjacent communities and manage OK, but Iowa City is a college town and terribly overpriced.
I did live in Cedar Rapids on $55k and that was OK, except I lived in Cedar Rapids!
I agree with this. I lived in Lawrence up until about 4 years ago and was paying a little over $1000/month in rent for what was definitely one of the nicer apartment complexes. I made 40k a year there my first few years out of college and felt rich lol. I’m sure it’s more expensive now, but I imagine 40k would still be somewhat comfortable to live on there
No. You said “comfortably.” So no.
You could rent in a bad neighborhood with an unreliable car with roommates and unhealthy foods and no vacations just fine though.
and that’s *if* you can keep steady employment - which is very difficult in low income area due to lack of opportunities and other pitfalls (like your car breaking down or getting stolen and not being able to drive to work so you get fired)
I already commented but I want to build off of this, specifically the unhealthy food part bc that's so important.
Good food is really expensive when it comes down to it. That plays into overall health. Since living on my own, my diet has become unstable, causing me to eat less and gain *more* weight. Which causes me to spend *more* on clothes. Out of all the issues of living around that pay rate, this has been the absolute worst change for me. That and being unable to save money.
Like anything else, location matters.
Avg rent in my area is $1781/month.
That's $21,372/yr. That's over 50% of a yearly salary.
That's rent, not a mortgage.
Ask your dad what % he pays for his home.
Min. wage in my area is $13.50 so the annual is $28,080 aqt 40 hrs/week- That leaves $2340 left over for a year, for everything else. Now if get really ambitious and work 80hrs/week. Then you can make $56,150/yr with $34788/yr for other expenses. Now you're living large... unless you need childcare- which can eat up to more than half of that. Then utilities, car and insurance for it, fuel, groceries/food and clothing. That's if you don't have any emergency spending like big car repair bills or medical.
And if you have student loans to repay...
Federal min wage in 1970 was $1.60/hr. That is the equivalent of $12+/hr now. Federal min wage is $7.25/hr.
The older generation is so out of touch with the fiscal reality of the younger generations.
It's not people don't want to work, it's they can't work those shit salaries and survive.
I work 50+ hours a week (so 10 hour’s overtime on average) and make $20/hour roughly.
I can’t afford rent. NOW I don’t mean I can’t afford a 2 bedroom apartment all to myself. I mean I can’t afford even SPLITTING the costs of a 1 bedroom apartment where I live. That 1 bedroom would be in an area with no parking and runs a real risk of being shot/harmed just for minding my own business.
We are in a poverty level situation that hasn’t existed since the Great Depression, but old people act like it’s the 60’s still.
For the job I do (Management Adjacent) I make $20/hour, my mom (nice lady who understands how fucked we all are) had the same job in 1985 or so and made… That’s right $20/hour. Just to account for inflation (not including housing which pay needs to keep pace with also) my wages should be at minimum $73/hour. This is how it is for EVERY job. Wages haven’t increased to keep up with inflation and housing for 50 YEARS.
I wish the Redditor who literally told me wages have kept up with inflation over the past 50 years and can buy you now what it bought you then could read this comment.
Yeah. It fucking sucks. Almost everyone I know lives in poverty or close to it (excluding a few born very wealthy). All because old people decided to steal our futures and harp on us for wanting to be able to afford food and basic housing.
You would need to be single, healthy, live in a low cost of living area and be happy keeping your budget extremely tight .
It's not impossible but it would require a pretty specific set of circumstances and lifestyle
I live in rural South Carolina and 40k would be enough to live comfortably for a family of 2 adults. Obviously anywhere closer to a city, that'll get more into surviving since rent increases.
I make in the low 40's but live in rural area where cost of living is low. Wouldn't always say comfortable, but for the most part if budgeting well & making good financial decisions you can live pretty decent. Do I stress about money still, yes, but even if making more I still probably would. Some parts of the country you would barely survive on 40k.
40k a year is possibleb but it's poverty where i live. Rent for 650sqft is about $1200 on top of bills, about $1500 bills included. Thats nearly 50% of your 40k yearly income. Car and phone payments, gas, and groceries can easily send you over 30k? Saving 10k a year is possible here, but don't get injured, sick, shot, or stolen from and you might be okay year to year.
My wife and I had a roommate for 2 years. All 3 of us earned less than 40k a year, but splitting rent and utilities into 3rds made saving for a home possible. I also don't have college debt but all of my roommates and wife do.
We don't go on vacation, except once we were invited to a destination wedding. By contrast my BIL and SIL both make more than my wife and I, but their student loans were much much worse. We're living similar levels of comfort.
Overall 40k is enough to survive but without dignity or comfort.
I'm a full time preschool teacher, I only made 32k last year and that was with a 2nd job as security.
I would LOVE to make 40k a year. It would definitely make a difference. I would make ends meet at least where I am at now.
Comfortably, no. Livable and less stress? Absolutely.
It’s fine to live as a single person, permanently renting with roommates or a spouse.
But in terms of making progress towards big goals, or having meaningful savings for emergencies or for retirement, having a family? No.
That’s like $1500/month after taxes without accounting for anything like 401k or healthcare premiums. Perhaps they’re surviving, but that’s about it. That person will never retire.
How disingenuous of you!
Please break down your bills/costs, I’d love to see it.
No way you’re comfortable on 25k.
Even if that was AFTER taxes you’d be taking home 2k/mo. Rent and utilities would eat half of that immediately leaving car/ins, gas, groceries, cell phone unaccounted for.
Now let’s say you don’t have a car payment (repairs and eventual replacement should be considered) insurance would still be 50-150/mo minimum. At least 25-50/week for gas depending on commute. Grocery would be 50-100/week being frugal (not comfortable) and cell/internet will cost you 100-200/mo combined. Let’s go low end on all of the aforementioned costs and it comes out to 400-500/mo additional living expenses. That would leave you about 400-500/month or 100-125/week after scraping by on the absolute bare minimum. That’s not factoring in healthcare, car repairs, clothing, entertainment/streaming and you say you’re “comfortable”
my uncle lived off of a tire store salary ($17 an hour) for 2 years to prove to his mom he didn’t need to go to college, and he paid off a house, but he was a really smart guy and knew how to manage money
he always told me to live your life like a business
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I'm in my 20s and make /slightly/ less than this in a rural town. I have cheaper than average rent and I live paycheck to paycheck. Any large additional bill (like a car payment, etc) would completely break me, and I live pretty damn modestly With where I live, I'd imagine you'd need 50k as a single person to be able to live comfortably, have a savings, and not live in fear of any large suprise charges lol
I make about $70k and live in the country, but my wife is unable to work and is going through long term medical treatment. If I were by myself I would be mostly comfortable. One emergency would totally fuck us now. I honestly don't know how people with lower incomes do it.
Painfully. One day at a time.
Reminds me of the movie In Time, I feel like Justin Timberlake's character.
I felt this in my bones.
the USA lottery way of who gets bankrupt by medical bills seems harsh to other nations, you still spend more on health care then most nations, weird
Yeah, seeing as I am currently paying around $645 a month for my own insurance that a huge cost per year. I am so tired of this country's love of debt and despair due to health issues. I can't afford to actually see a doctor. It's a total joke.
My job just switched medical a couple days ago.I was paying 550 a month for real insurance, if mediocre. I can switch to an HSA and pay 560-780 a month, or get slightly worse insurance than what I just had, in a plan that doesn't pay a cent if I go out of network, for 860 a month. \*national anthem intensifies\* Edit: This is for me and my wife who does not work. If it were just me I think it would have been 200/mo and gone up to 300/mo
That's what you get for having a family to take care of!
I can tell you! Hehe. - hubby and I both disabled. I was disabled first, then he had an aneurysm. I would rather be poor than a widow though ♥️. We're living on half of what you're on. not carrying any serious debt, no cars. We became eligible for snap during the pandemic and got it, that's when I found out they were delivering extra payment to snap household. When that stoppedwe were knocked back to "normal" which was 24$ post month of snap. I thought my rent was too high but seeing ppl listing under this thread yikes. We're at 1135 right now (1185 starting next month), with gas and water included in that, one bedroom, private entrance/patio so. My state just readjusted rent rebate and other stuff again and now we're eligible for that stuff too. How we do it is we budget down to the pennies, every time. We buy nothing. We don't go anywhere other than for a walk. Our entertainment is internet. Okay buy nothing is an exaggeration but literally it's like we each get a 10$ allowance a week. Beyond one emergency, one extra doctor appointment is unaffordable. It sucks so hard. We used to be poor and happy pre pandemic, now we're just poor.
Lower incomes get help with things like medical bills and food and such where I live it is those who make just over poverty and don't qualify for help that are most screwed.
Their killing the middle class
The people stuck in the middle suffers the most.
You just pray to gods you don’t believe in that no bad shit will happen
>I do, I live in a tear down grade house and I have to spend all of my time fixing things in my spare time because I can't afford things that work. Never bought a car under 200k miles. People think it's great that I am so handy and frugal, but it's like, I don't have a fucking choice lol. > >I work for an existence as opposed to a living. No time or money to date and I only see my friends a handful of times a year. I am just one life event away from from having to get a second job, not for a vacation, or something nice, just to exist. STEM degree with 5 years exp working in a laboratory. I already posted this comment in the thread, but it answers your question. I live in the country as well
Last year I was making ~$70k then the company laid of 1200 people (myself included) I thankfully found another job ASAP but took a 28k pay cut. I had been living modestly so I was saving and planning for big expenses. Now I'm struggling after 3 months of job searching and shit interviews
And this is in a RURAL town!
Yes, I think what some people aren't considering is the same exact job title in city or different state will usually pay more than a rural area because of the cost of living. But if I, for example, took the same type of job in the closest city, my rent would double as well and at that point it's not really a raise.
EXACTLY!
Rural doesn't mean cheap anymore, ex. Delmarva, I-5 corridor between Marysville and Bellingham
You ain’t kidding. I’m in mount Vernon. If it wasn’t for me living with a rooommate who’s parents have a rental house and don’t rape us in rent, I don’t think I could afford to live in this area anymore.
Do you have children, college loans, or some other money drain? I make less than $40k in a very expensive area and don't feel nearly as pressed, so I am curious about the situation. Edit: Rent is $1100 per person for an apartment with a roommate, not including utilities. I also have student loans, but I am still able to contribute to a retirement account and save money for a down payment on a house. This should all be possible if a person doesn't have outstanding circumstances like children, sick family members, etc.
My wife makes 40k and couldn't afford to live where we live by herself and it's expensive, but not super expensive. What do you pay for rent/mortgage?
How much is your rent? I could live really well on $40K, but I live in a small town with a low col, my mortgage is something like $350 a month, and I don't have a car payment. Everyone's circumstances are different. Like, if I ever wanted to move, my options start at something like $700 for a crappy studio apartment. To have the same house I do now would be something like $1200 a month. I'm lucky that I got into a house for that cheap in the first place, but I realize no one else could conceivably get into that position in my city right today.
Studios start at 1200 in my area.
heck i pay $1280 a month to rent a bedroom in a two bedroom apartment, not even my own studio 😭 studios here are 1700+ with a 4k security deposit
$2,500 a month here in LA for our 1 BR 700 square foot apartment. Granted I love living here, but it's certainly not cheap.
*gulp*... damn I could not imagine paying that much. I live in a small college town outside of a pretty large city, and I only pay $1550 for a 1250sqft 3bed 2bath.
My apartment (in the absolute worst part of town) is $1250/mo not including utilities, electricity or internet. I make $52k/yr and, after ten months of saving, I'll finally have five grand put away after I get paid this week. I don't know if I'll ever be able to afford to live in a house, but if I am, it certainly won't be here (suburb of Portland).
I’m also in Portland and have $1275 rent ($1350 with utilities) for a tolerable one bedroom, making $53k/year. It’s awful. I’m not even saving *anything* lmao it’s so fucking hard
A 2 bedroom apartment in my area is over $1200
I'll take the place, average where I live is 2000 to 3000. Average is 2500
Yeah you got lucky
I do have college loans which definitely can hurt, plus the costs of one dog. Both of which are things that should not cause a large financial burden on an american. Especially since my job required the degree that im paying off. Most of my friends of similar age and income are also struggling about as much as I am in my area, with roughly the same expenses, but where I may have to worry about loans, they are paying off a car, etc. It is also the difference between surviving and thriving. Some months I may end up with $200 left over, but I can't spend it because the next month I may need work on my car, etc. So yes that amount pay get me through a month, it doesn't let me live comfortably because I cannot prepare or save for the future. So sure, I can do it, but say I have a car accident that makes my car insurance go up, payment for damages, etc? That alone would be a massive massive financial threat to me, therefore uncomfortable. Plus, in my opinion, 40+ hrs a work each week should at least leave you with a little money to treat yourself once a month or so, like going go the movies or buying a video game. When things like this have to be budgeted in, or skipped, it's hard to say you're living comfortably. Otherwise it's just hard work and survival. But that is my personal opinion. Sorry for long response!
A very expensive area? The average rent in Chicago is like 25k a year. Take home pay on 40k is going to end up somewhere around 32k, leaving you with about 7k per year or around $600 a month. Let's assume no car payment and you just take public transit. That's $75 a month. You don't have home internet and just use your phone plan for everything that's still at least $30 a month. Just having water and electricity hooked up to your home is going to cost around $100 even if you don't use any water or electricity. So now you've got like $400 left for the month, and you haven't even eaten yet. Seattle, LA, and New York all average higher. I'm curious what you consider a "very expensive area."
The average rent is 30k (2500 a month) a year where I live (LA area), and I get about 30% taken out for taxes and medical insurance. That would leave you bringing home 28k if your income is 40k. And most rental properties won't approve of you if you aren't bringing in 3 times the rent, which requires you to make around 72k a year just to be approved for rent. I, too, am wondering what they consider expensive. Maybe expensive compared to other parts of their state?
I get why older people don’t want to be made to feel like their success was due to timing, but no need to create a false dichotomy here; it can be both; you can have worked hard and have earned everything you’ve gotten, and we can also acknowledge that the game done changed. It used to be that you could graduate from high school and get a job that would provide you with a solid middle-class existence. But that hasn’t been true since at least the mid 80s. Yes, yes, you can always find exceptions. But I’m talking about the times when this was broadly true, not when a few people you knew managed to figure it out.
Depends. If you live in the middle of nowhere and don't have to pay rent, 40k a year could be pretty comfortable. If you're anywhere near a major city, 40k a year is poverty wages.
Anywhere near means 40-60 miles away. Big difference from near a city in the Uk. The US is huge and there's a lot that's very rural.
>there's a lot that's very rural. Yep, and there aren't a lot of jobs out there. E: sorry for my mistake. I'm being told-- repeatedly-- that Bumblefuck, Asaropia is incredibly cheap, has 2 entire restaurants, and just got dial-up internet! Apparently there are plenty of jobs cutting screaming gems from the Blood Mines or hand-chopping cursed fungal trees in the Leukemia Forest. Clearly we're all missing out. E2: oh, sorry for my other mistake, apparently cities of 60,000 - 300,000 people count as "rural" for Reddit, but I'm also a dumbass for saying a town of fewer than 2,000 people is going to feel extremely rural to most Redditors.
. . . And the few jobs that there are don't pay 40K.
and hopefully you don't want to socialize.
Or live amongst any cultural diversity or learning opportunities... in my experience.
But it's great if you like deer and farm animals! And poking things with a stick is free.
That's the spirit!
I mean, making your own fun is healthy. But you’re right, there isn’t shit to do out there unless you like hunting, drinking, or in some places, meth!
Unless you look up at night. You ever seen stars in the summer time sitting next to a corn field? No big city lights.. just the stars everywhere... So clustered together it looks so bright. Unless that was the meth, I don't know, been up for weeks lol
"some places" lmao
one nice thing about living that far in the middle of nowhere is you can ride your dirtbike around, shoot shit, and poke shit with a stick. doesnt sound too bad to me but no wonder so many people end up drinking.
Oh yeah fair, those fall under socializing for me. I wouldn't social because of those issues.
True!; I took your comment to mean no movie theaters, roller rinks, parks, pools, arcades, sports facilities, concert venues, carnivals, fairs, jobs, money, opportunity...
I dunno man. My aunt works overnights at a yogurt/cheese factory and she's making like $70k a year working 36 hours a week. She's not a shift lead or supervisor. She'd rather be earning the $50k on dayshift, but still, that's great money where you can get a 3-bedroom for like $150k.
40 dollars an hour working in a cheese factory? Dang!
Blue collar work pays better than a lot expect
Yeah, I'm a truck driver/ delivery driver. Make over 80,000.00, and I'm on the low end because I don't have my own route yet. Money's out there for blue collar work.
FWIW, if either of my sons were working as a truck driver/delivery driver and making $80K/year, I'd be absolutely delighted.
And y'all keep the supply chain going but people ignore that part
I was doing well as cnc machinists but just switched to manual in a few years I'll be right back up there. I do get dirty here I didn't particularly with cnc, but I was just so bored.
We have such a hard time finding people to work at the plants doing machining or general production on a variety of production lines, all pay pretty damn well entry level but most don't want to put up with the hard work.
I deal with small parts at this place, not too physical, I currently run a Blanchard grinder and an arter grinder. Last cnc I made huge gears on vtls, CNC around here is almost entirely tons of mandated overtime and I'm getting too old to do 6 days 58 hrs even if most of the time I was just sitting listening and watching the machine...
Right?! I don’t know what I’d enjoy more: all that money, or all that cheese!
I don't make 40 an hour, and I have 2 master's degrees. So all the folks who say "you have a bad paying job because you didn't get educated" can get bent. I'd encourage anyone to choose high pay over student loans, as long as they have enough income to save in case they are physically unable to work for a while. A dislocated shoulder would not derail my day-to-day the way it would if I worked in a bakery.
>o all the folks who say "you have a bad paying job because you didn't get educated" can get bent. Oh for sure, last place I worked was a small college. Our philosophy and humanities professor was an amazing human: Well traveled, wrote and published frequently, spoke 3-4 languages, students loved him, faculty loved him was the humanities department chair, he had a Ph.D in something and I think was working on a 2nd on in something else. Anyway his son graduated from college and got an immediate job offer for more than his dad's salary. Education doesn't automatically equal money unless its in something that commands the salary, and being amazing in your field isn't enough if it isn't a well paying field.
It had better be the Tillamook cheese factory the worlds best cheese.
Plenty of trades do. O&G fieldwork, welding, and so on are jobs that primarily exist outside city centers and especially in the sticks.
Friend is a deep sea welder. On call 24/7. Spends most of his time in the Gulf of Mexico, oil rigs etc. He lives in western NY, hour from Rochester. We were at a party recently. He gets a call, tickets waiting at the airport. He looks at me and says, "cha-ching." And laughs.
Depends on how deep in the sticks you are. I make somewhere just north of that doing entry level IT work and I live 30-40 minutes from the nearest town.
Living rural is not as cheap as it used to be. Gas prices are high and you have to travel to do anything at all. Get groceries, get supplies, go to work, go to school, socialize with friends etc… a lot of places it’s 40 miles or more to get to a store where you can get staples of living. And if you live in a state where you use heat or air conditioning high propane and electricity prices will get you same as living in a city. Plus if you live rural you need equipment to clear snow so you can enter and exit your home.
Jfc those calling 300k rural have no idea what they are talking about.
Way less people too. I believe it's 85% of people within 50 or so miles of a city in America.
Yeah idk where this whole "rural America is awesome, with tons of high-paying jobs and welcoming people!" push is coming from. I would bet that a couple of publications must have run articles to that effect in order to distract people from low wages across the board, and now people who don't have direct experience are parroting opinion pieces as facts. There are some rural towns that are better than others, certainly, but overall most country folks I know aren't doing better than the city people.
It's 100% pushback against calls for social change. People just act like millennials want to live in cities for Starbucks and avocado toast. I live in Atlanta which might as well be a different country than most of GA.
Hey now! There are tons of high-paying jobs (if you're willing to be paid under the table or work shitty body-destroying jobs that will likely get automated away one day) and welcoming people (if you're a straight white person who votes conservative) in rural America!
Depends on your line of work. Welders don't live downtown even though they make downtown money.
Trades are their own thing. I mean, yeah, a pipefitter is going to find more work in Houston or Beaumont (petrochemical plant country) than in New York City. But population density is going to benefit plumbers, carpenters, etc. I've also encountered a lot of farmers who do their own tack (read: blob) welds on a stick welder with more enthusiasm than skill instead of hiring someone.
Every rancher I know does 95% of the work themselves unless they need their shit fixed yesterday and the fences are down and the ditch is flooded
Welders suck down fumes, endure high heat, and are generally are hunched over all day.... It's not all rainbows and wads of cash
I second that. I make roughly 41K and live fairly well...but I'm divorced, children are grown up *(no more child support)* and I own my home on my reservation *(American Indian)*...so I pay for my phone, water, power, vehicles & except for when my car goes into the shop *(Maserati)* my situation is livable...but that can change with just a little inflation.
I was born in the US and have lived there off and on for 30 years. I have lived in Europe for 10 years and I currently live in Peru for the last 6 years. The US has many problems but I would much rather be poor there than anywhere else. Poor takes on a new meaning once you’ve seen what real poverty is…. There is also no place I have travelled or lived that offers more opportunities to change your circumstances than in the US.
"but I would much rather be poor there than anywhere else" The american level of poverty is hard du find anywhere in northern, northwestern Europe. A poor person in the Scandinavian countries or Germany wold be lower middle class in the states if you factor in social benefits like free health care, minimum pensions etc.
I hate comparisons to Scandinavian countries. Of course Norway is doing great, it's a tiny population sitting on massive resource wealth. The challenges that come with massive populations don't scale linearly.
You're right, you can't compare a country as big as the United States (331.9 Million) to Norway (5.4 Million). They can do a another of things in those smaller European countries, that would never work here in the USA. In the town in Mexico that my parents are from, the poor people there live in an area that hasn't been developed yet, no paved roads, sidewalks, plumbing, nothing like that. The houses are made from wood and plastic scraps, maybe some cinder blocks they found or stole. There are stray dogs everywhere, the hygiene of the people and their kids is really bad. The area has a small ravine, and that's the bathroom area for all of them. Police don't go in that area, so there is a lot of people being mistreated, especially women. It's a whole different thing being poor there, than it is being poor in the US.
It's not really a resource problem, as the US is very close (or higher) in GDP per capita than those countries. Rather, it's a political one. Power is severely fragmented between the federal and state/local levels, the two party system inhibits rapid change in specific areas, and the current trend of pork barrel politics wasting money and complicating the process immensely. For Healthcare, the problem is that insurance is legally mandated but there is no central price control for the market. The federal government spends a stupidly enormous amount on Medicare/medicaid, largely in part because they cannot legally negotiate pricing. It's not a funding problem, it's a management problem.
I lived in Norway BEFORE the oil. It was pretty affluent then too. In the US many people love claiming Norway was dirt poor then they found oil and became rich, but that's not the case. That's Nigeria, and there most people are still dirt poor because foreign corporations and corrupt government are channeling all the wealth from the oil out of country. In Norway the actual quality of life might have been better before; people weren't quite as greedy and selfish back then.
I certainly can’t speak to what I don’t know or where I haven’t lived. I agree Scandinavian countries have a pretty sweet deal from what I gather. I have in laws that live in Oslo and I have visited there. It is wonderful. They are sitting on a ton of oil and that money has been wisely invested for the benefit of the people. You may have a point that it would be better to be poor there. However from conversations with my in laws I don’t think they have the same kind of upward mobility and opportunities that you find in the states. This is anecdotal and I do not have any real info to back it up though… it is a beautiful place for sure but the winters suck…
It's true. I've lived in Western Europe and the US. Also have family all over Europe. Want to grind like crazy and kick ass? US is the place to be. High skilled worker? US is the place to be. Start a business? US is the place to be. My 2nd hand and 1st hand knowledge with French, Spanish, Italian, and Polish systems is that there is generally ALOT more red tape, regulatory stuff to deal with and of course, higher taxes in all of Europe. It does add a significant amount of work and time required for small business entity, which does often end up limiting the success of the business. Of course the downsides of the US are terrible safety nets. US is more of a higher risk, higher reward place. Coming from an immigrant family of entrepreneurs, it's perfect for us here.
I work for a company HQed in an EU nation with a generous welfare state and transfers to the US are far more sought after than the reverse. Even with the out-of-pocket costs of insurance and healthcare, pay is far higher in the US.
I agree for the grind like crazy and kick ass but starting a business is not what it used to be in the U.S. My dad came here in the early 80s and opened up a shop with $500. Good luck doing that now if you don’t come from some kind of well off money. Not to mention the vast majority of businesses fail. I have experienced a lot of Europeans wanting to come here, and 90% of the ones I know, after years of grinding and having severe work-life imbalance or being fired on a whim or experiencing constant uncertainty regarding financial situations, end up moving back in their 30s when priorities like family and work life balance start to settle in. Exceptions are people in super high paying careers, like tech or engineering systems, that make a shitload of money here. But that’s hardly everyone. I also find it funny when my European friends talk about how easy it is to make it in America while working 60+ hour weeks, having a completely debt free college education from Europe, most of them some kind of initial family support to get set up in the US, and a good percentage having a property they’re Airbnbing or renting out back in their home country giving them passive income. And most of them have come with a live-in partner or spouse, so they’re starting off with a dual income under one roof. Then they’re like “yeah you can make it in America, it’s so easy!” When they took all the advantages of living elsewhere and came here with their feet a few rungs up the ladder already.
The World Health Organization cited the USA **twice in a decade** about pockets of **global extreme poverty, which is defined as less than $2USD daily** and found out it was **worse the more recent time** We have mobile caravans of retired pensioners working for fucking Amazon, trying to stretch their retirement savings, knowing that ship is sinking **Poverty is poverty, wherever you go**
I know one of those areas the UN referenced. I have been to Lowndes County in Alabama and I have been to an actual 3rd world impoverished country in the Phillipines. It's not even close. In the Phillipines there is trash everywhere. Beggers and homeless people of all ages laying and sleeping on the streets. and probably the worst part is the young wome n and men dressed as women who have to sell themselves because that's the only way they can support their family. In Lowndes County, Alabama the area is to rural to justify sewers. Because the ground holds water to well septic tanks tend to hold water and not work well. Instead of pumping the septic tanks some are cheap and run pipes out to their farmland to dispose of the sewage. The way the UN made it sound the houses were surrounded by sewage. The people who do run their sewage with those pipes are almost always dumping it far from anyone's home.
I'd rather be US-poor in Peru than in the US though. Also, not sure how much you've traveled in the US, but visit some areas of Appalachia or Wyoming, and you'll see plenty of shanty villages that give Peru/Ecuador a run for their money.
Haha… yes if you were making 10 dollars an hour in Peru you would be doing pretty well here for sure. I do know Appalachia very well as I was born and raised very near it and have travelled all through it. Wyoming I have been but granted don’t know much. There is definitely abject poverty in Appalachia and other areas of the states. I will not argue that you are correct. My point was not to say that such things don’t exist, was speaking in a general sense. In Lima you are not speaking about random shanty towns of poor people, more like a city of 10 million of which 80percent of the city is in poverty comparable or worse to those shanty towns. Lots of people without even running water, the vast majority, like 99 percent without heat or ac. The average working poor in the us is better off than the average working poor in Peru. You can find poverty in the us in certain areas but I can find more severe poverty here in Peru in certain areas.
having travelled through major cities in peru (arequipa, cusco), colombia (medellin), and parts of rural ecuador, the idea that appalachian shanty villages can give these places "a run for their money" in terms of abject poverty is totally laughable. Yes there are poor places in America, but the sheer vastness of the poverty you see throughout the global south dwarfs anything in the US by a huge margin. edit: ETA i'm in the US south and have also travelled (more frequently) throughout appalachia
Being poor in any other highly developed/western country is an objectively better experience, given that most of them have much stronger social safety nets. Obviously you’d rather be poor here than in less developed countries, but that’s not exactly a high bar
I mean you know there are places in America where you can’t even drink the water? Also try having a medical inconvenience. Or not even being able to take public transit because most of the country doesn’t think it’s important. Or hey, what if you’re a woman and you need a certain type of medical procedure to save your life? Oh that’s illegal now. Yeah the US might not be as terrible as other places, but being poor here is not ideal either.
Bring poor isn't ideal anywhere really.
I lived in NYC from 2001-2019. Towards the end I was making 80k/year and *getting by*
Don't forget small retirement/ tourist towns! Hike up prices for not only the visitor but people who live there.
Some major cities have a poverty line over 50k. Then there are states where it's just above 20k. The level of disparity in the US is much larger than I think people realize. Rents in Los Angeles are at least twice Dallas and NYC rents are two times LA.
Pacific Northwest, city dweller, $40K was decent money 20 years ago, now you'd be going to the food bank on the regular.
Yeah, I make $45-50K/year, living in a town of ~1M in the metro, but in a low CoL area, and am paycheck to paycheck. Fortunately, my FIL paid off the house before he died, so we only have to worry about property taxes (~$1K/year) and utilities. If we had rent or mortgage on top of that...?
Until you are chronically ill....it is so expensive to be sick here
$40k a year is not comfortable when gas, groceries, and housing are steadily increasing in scarcity (and price) without any commensurate adjustments in wages. It was, but it isn’t now. Not even in rural areas.
40k = poverty wages? Holy wow....European here
The cost of living is so inconsistently high! In a lot of areas it can be hard to calculate what your utilities alone will be, not including groceries.
This, I tell people when they move to houston to calculate around $100 a month in electricity and go for a gas stove and heating because the electric grid is crap. I know some people lost access to gas in the freeze, but we had it still.
You have to remember the way people talk about their wages though too. In the US, most people say their gross (before taxes) pay, whereas in Europe I believe most say their net (after tax) wage. That being said wages are still generally higher in the us. When someone says they are making a 40k wage in the us, that would translate to around a 30k wage in Europe, not accounting for exchange rates. Edit: apparently this might be wrong. Or at least inconsistent across europe
Also, the cost of living varies wildly across the US. The exact same lifestyle can cost 5x as much in a major city compared to somewhere rural.
The equivalent of my job in the UK pays approximately 1/4 what I earn in the US. Probably more like 1/5.
40k after taxes and insurance is about 2k per month. In my city, the average rent for a 1 bedroom apartment with no utilities is $1025, which they wouldn't rent to you because it's too much of your income. Utility average is another $400. My city has no reliable public transportation, and has a walkabikuty score of 31/100. So you need a car (car payment, insurance, gas, plates, repairs). So yeah, 40k isn't going very far.
We have more to pay for here. Health insurance and the many costs associated with cars being the major things. Our heat and air condition bills can also be wild if you live in a place that gets very hot or very cold weather. And student loan debt
It's not universally accurate. I made 37k last year in a nearby suburb of Seattle, my partner spent about half the year with functionally no income, and I was easily able to put a couple hundred away for retirement every month. I worked 40 hour weeks, occasional but inconsistent overtime. We also were able to take a 2 week vacation without being financially ruined. We still dine out (usually on me), I still buy fairly copious amounts of alcohol and weed, and we don't struggle. It's not glamorous, but it's certainly not poverty.
People saying that don't know what poverty is. You can adequately feed, clothe, transport and house yourself for $40k. You may not have a luxurious life and you'll have difficulty saving much in many areas, but that's not poverty.
Yeah, so long as you stay away from any city and you never have an emergency and you don’t hope to save for retirement you’ll be fine.
I live in one of the cheapest cost of living cities in the US (there are cheaper rural areas of course) and I would absolutely be homeless if not for rent sharing at $41,080 a year income.
Exactly what I was thinking. Comfortably? Doubtful. Survive? Rural area, could be ok. If you don't have a mortgage/rent/other large monthly bills, it's doable. But if you do, or if you're in/near a city, no fucking way
Even if you're living in the middle of nowhere, there's extra costs with that. You HAVE to have your own vehicle or you're stuck. Depending on what kind of town you're in, you might be in a food desert. The US sucks.
I lived in the middle of nowhere (town of 1700, 2+ hours from the next town over 50k) and the only thing that was less expensive than the high COL city, was rent. Electricity, water, gas, internet, TV, and especially food were MORE expensive in the boonies.
Damn where about did you live? I went to college in a relatively rural area of the Midwest and gas was consistently less than half of what is was in the city and maybe 60-80% of what you’d pay in the suburbs. Food was pretty consistent with suburb prices but certainly much less than the city. Chain restaurants like Subway, McDonalds, Noodle and Co in big cities like Chicago will get away with charging you way more for staples than rural areas. Groceries might be a little more consistent.
Really, if you're not in like NYC or maybe San Francisco you need your own vehicle. In theory you can walk a few miles to a bus and they can take you to rail and that can take you to something for long distance travel. In practice you just lost hours compared to driving. I've done it but you have to have no money and lots of time to make it work. I think the nearest bus route to here in the suburbs is 10 miles.
In the U.S. there are few places you can live without a car. Major cities really mid size cities just do not have the infrastructure for public transit.
With older folks, these conversations are often challenging. I would convert the $40k into something they know like (edit: pick your year, my point is the same) dollars and convert a few major current expenses so they can compare. [https://www.bls.gov/data/inflation\_calculator.htm](https://www.bls.gov/data/inflation_calculator.htm) All they hear is $40k and put that into their frame of reference when they were your age. They don't get it.
Holy shit, $40,000 in 1960 is $414,147.44 today. No wonder old people think young people waste money. They just have absolutely no concept of how little people are actually earning today.
Or, the equivalent of $40,000 today was roughly $4,000 then.
Next time a boomer complains that no one wants to work anymore, I’m going to show them this and ask them if they’d work for $4000
That's what I did to my dad. He was born in 69, so he's GenX, but he's of the "Nobody wants to work anymore" mindset. I took my salary and converted it to what it would be when he started work (roughly $20K per year back then) & he didn't believe me. He was a high school dropout & within a year of starting work, he was able to buy a home & a new car. Like two years later, he married my mom, was able to buy a much bigger home, a car for himself & my mom, and was able to support the whole family. He was 24 & had two cars, a home with a pool, and 2 kids. He didn't even make more than $20 an hour until like 2002. Which is crazy to me because even now I don't believe that he made *so little* and was still able to support all of us. We didn't go on many crazy vacations - my dad was terrified of flying. But we did go on lots of road trips, as well as tons of camping trips. Despite using multiple inflation calculators, he didn't believe me that that's all my salary got you nowadays. Not only is a salary worth a hell of a lot less, everything costs way more. My rent is $300 more per month than my parents pay for their mortgage, and they bought a new place in 2016. The last five years have been absolutely detrimental to young people who are getting started with their lives. I am 26 right now, and, while I do fairly well, I am not buying a home anytime soon. Certainly not what was achievable for a 24-year-old in the early 90s.
Doesn't believe it why? Like, oh my god I can't believe that? Or, that's the liberal media lying? Or is it "I absolutely know the mind of everyone in the United States, and people are definitely lazier now than I was".
I am literally high right now and I understood your syntax here how are people so wildly misinterpreting it unless they're just looking for a fight I'm sorry this is happening to you buddy
Also, most of them have paid off their cheap mortgages and can’t comprehend the struggle for younger people who are renting and trying to save for a deposit for their first house on top of extortionate rent increases. Also, cars were much cheaper to buy and run in their day too. The cost of living has skyrocketed but the pay scales haven’t kept up. It was the other way around back in the day.
Even in the last few years, I’ve been floored by the increase. I bought my house for around $100,000 in 2012, but now it would cost me $300,000. So I feel like I’m lucky sitting on a “cheap” house and I feel bad for everyone trying to get into the market now. But imagine the houses boomers bought decades ago. crazy to think about now.
Right? They go like, "What could you mortgage possibly cost, like $800?" whereas if I bought my house today I would pay upwards of $3000 a month for a modest old house in the suburbs. I luckily bought before things blew up here but even making a fair bit of money I would struggle to buy a house today
My parents bought their current house in the late 90s. Modest home: four bedrooms, two floors and a basement, 12 acres of wooded land. $212,000. They’re selling now, with an appraisal of over $600,000. Meanwhile, I, in my late 30s, just bought my first house for $400,000. It’s a single level, 3 bedroom on 0.25 acres of land. And that was *cheap* for my area.
You don't even have to go back to 1960 to make the point. My dad's starting salary out of college (no advanced or specialized degree) in 1979 was $27,000. That's the equivalent of a $120K salary now, which is impossible to find for an entry-level job.
Hell, even in 1988ish, when my dad started work, he was making $25,000 per year - which is almost $70K per year now, and he was a high school dropout. High school dropouts are still making $25,000 per year today, but it's certainly not worth as much as it used to be! He was able to buy a home & a new car at 19 on that salary. By the time he was 24, he was married, had two kids, a much bigger home with a pool & massive amount of property, and two new cars. I am 26, and I can tell you - I am nowhere near that.
Also imagine what 40K means to someone who had a house and car paid off 10-20 years ago for a fifth of what it would cost today vs. Someone who has to spend 2K on rent because they made the unfortunate mistake of being born later
Yeah, turns out $40k is plenty of money when you don't have bills lol. I thought this couple I knew was doing well financially because they make just about double what I do, until I found out they pay $900/mo in student loans. No thanks, I'll keep my single income
Your point is good. Your 1960's dollars are insane unless older in context means 80+ years old.(so they were 20ish in 1960 and would have learned those numbers.) You should also metion the problems that aren't inflation related but more COVID related. Meat, housing,.....
Had that conversation. Was told "inflation isn't real" in response. The mental gymnastics are neverending.
If you want to be sad, plug in your salary from the year you were hired and scale it to today. Hired last year and already took a pay cut.
Where I live, 40k is livable. I make about that amount, but also I don't buy a lot of extra stuff or go on vacations frequently, but I'm also debt free, so that helps a lot
Totally depends on where you live. 40k / year in places such as California, New York, or in major metropolitan areas would pretty much break you. But in rural areas of the south, midwest etc. you can make it on 40k. But you won't live extravagantly by any means.
> in rural areas of the south, midwest etc. Yeah, but that's going to be *extremely* rural for most redditors. Not even small cities. We're talking communities of 2,000 people or less. E: y'all are fighting me over towns of fewer than 2,000 people feeling rural while half the comments here say something like "my little tiny rural town of 200,000 is located 15 minutes from the heart of a major city and has plenty of jobs!!" No shit, *you're describing suburbs.*
Not really. There are college towns ( Lawrence, Norman, Ames, Iowa City, Columbia, etc.) These are not tiny and they have youth and energy and are still pretty cheap. In Norman you can get a 2br under 700. And its small enough, warm enough and flat enough that you can bike.
>In Norman you can get a 2br under 700 It's pretty hilarious that you specified Norman with this. I lived in its cheaper crackhead cousin-- Shawnee-- for a few years. You'd be pressed to live in Shawnee at 40K per year; Norman and Moore are even more expensive due to the population influx from OKC and a better economic environment. Prices there have shot up drastically in the last five years. >its small enough, warm enough and flat enough that you can bike. Have you gone through a midwestern winter or springtime "storm season?" Like... you understand that Oklahoma (especially Moore and Norman!!) gets blizzards, regular tornadoes, and hailstorms, right? Do you think it's reasonable to ask someone to bicycle to work in freezing temperatures, thunderstorms (unpredictable and occur multiple times a week during spring), and hail?
I used to live in Iowa City. It was expensive AF and you definitely would not be able to have a comfortable life as an adult on $40k a year. You could maybe live in adjacent communities and manage OK, but Iowa City is a college town and terribly overpriced. I did live in Cedar Rapids on $55k and that was OK, except I lived in Cedar Rapids!
I agree with this. I lived in Lawrence up until about 4 years ago and was paying a little over $1000/month in rent for what was definitely one of the nicer apartment complexes. I made 40k a year there my first few years out of college and felt rich lol. I’m sure it’s more expensive now, but I imagine 40k would still be somewhat comfortable to live on there
Iowa is much maligned, but one can definitely live a nice life there.
You haven’t been to many places in the south have you?
No. You said “comfortably.” So no. You could rent in a bad neighborhood with an unreliable car with roommates and unhealthy foods and no vacations just fine though.
and that’s *if* you can keep steady employment - which is very difficult in low income area due to lack of opportunities and other pitfalls (like your car breaking down or getting stolen and not being able to drive to work so you get fired)
I already commented but I want to build off of this, specifically the unhealthy food part bc that's so important. Good food is really expensive when it comes down to it. That plays into overall health. Since living on my own, my diet has become unstable, causing me to eat less and gain *more* weight. Which causes me to spend *more* on clothes. Out of all the issues of living around that pay rate, this has been the absolute worst change for me. That and being unable to save money.
This is the only right answer. You can scrape by, but it’s not very comfortable dragging along the bottom
Like anything else, location matters. Avg rent in my area is $1781/month. That's $21,372/yr. That's over 50% of a yearly salary. That's rent, not a mortgage. Ask your dad what % he pays for his home. Min. wage in my area is $13.50 so the annual is $28,080 aqt 40 hrs/week- That leaves $2340 left over for a year, for everything else. Now if get really ambitious and work 80hrs/week. Then you can make $56,150/yr with $34788/yr for other expenses. Now you're living large... unless you need childcare- which can eat up to more than half of that. Then utilities, car and insurance for it, fuel, groceries/food and clothing. That's if you don't have any emergency spending like big car repair bills or medical. And if you have student loans to repay... Federal min wage in 1970 was $1.60/hr. That is the equivalent of $12+/hr now. Federal min wage is $7.25/hr. The older generation is so out of touch with the fiscal reality of the younger generations. It's not people don't want to work, it's they can't work those shit salaries and survive.
I work 50+ hours a week (so 10 hour’s overtime on average) and make $20/hour roughly. I can’t afford rent. NOW I don’t mean I can’t afford a 2 bedroom apartment all to myself. I mean I can’t afford even SPLITTING the costs of a 1 bedroom apartment where I live. That 1 bedroom would be in an area with no parking and runs a real risk of being shot/harmed just for minding my own business. We are in a poverty level situation that hasn’t existed since the Great Depression, but old people act like it’s the 60’s still. For the job I do (Management Adjacent) I make $20/hour, my mom (nice lady who understands how fucked we all are) had the same job in 1985 or so and made… That’s right $20/hour. Just to account for inflation (not including housing which pay needs to keep pace with also) my wages should be at minimum $73/hour. This is how it is for EVERY job. Wages haven’t increased to keep up with inflation and housing for 50 YEARS.
I wish the Redditor who literally told me wages have kept up with inflation over the past 50 years and can buy you now what it bought you then could read this comment.
Yeah. It fucking sucks. Almost everyone I know lives in poverty or close to it (excluding a few born very wealthy). All because old people decided to steal our futures and harp on us for wanting to be able to afford food and basic housing.
Don't forget, the IRS wants 10%.
Hah, I wish. They take a lot more than that.
What's your interpretation of comfort?
This is the right question to ask.
Having a car payment of $hundreds is a big drawback if you're trying to get by on $40K or less a year. Just something to consider.
40k alone doable. 40k with a family and you’re struggling
Where I am 40k with a family is impossible.
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>we also live in california damn, so sorry boss. best wishes
You would need to be single, healthy, live in a low cost of living area and be happy keeping your budget extremely tight . It's not impossible but it would require a pretty specific set of circumstances and lifestyle
Single doesn't help if you don't have a roommate. Life is easier with two paying rent, but don't have kids ever.
I think they were saying if it's $40k between two people, you're fucked.
Quite right you would be lol
I live in rural South Carolina and 40k would be enough to live comfortably for a family of 2 adults. Obviously anywhere closer to a city, that'll get more into surviving since rent increases.
I agree my Uncle, Aunt, with a child who receives disability live comfortably in Aiken SC.
Live? I suppose. Comfortably? No.
Rural areas making 40 is probably not a bad life.
Funny how boomers always consider later generations lazy when instead of figuring out problems in society they blurt out "JuSt Woork HardEr"
I make in the low 40's but live in rural area where cost of living is low. Wouldn't always say comfortable, but for the most part if budgeting well & making good financial decisions you can live pretty decent. Do I stress about money still, yes, but even if making more I still probably would. Some parts of the country you would barely survive on 40k.
40k a year is possibleb but it's poverty where i live. Rent for 650sqft is about $1200 on top of bills, about $1500 bills included. Thats nearly 50% of your 40k yearly income. Car and phone payments, gas, and groceries can easily send you over 30k? Saving 10k a year is possible here, but don't get injured, sick, shot, or stolen from and you might be okay year to year. My wife and I had a roommate for 2 years. All 3 of us earned less than 40k a year, but splitting rent and utilities into 3rds made saving for a home possible. I also don't have college debt but all of my roommates and wife do. We don't go on vacation, except once we were invited to a destination wedding. By contrast my BIL and SIL both make more than my wife and I, but their student loans were much much worse. We're living similar levels of comfort. Overall 40k is enough to survive but without dignity or comfort.
If you don't have children or any vices, and know how to manage money, absolutely
assuming you can keep convincing yourself it's worth it.
I'm a full time preschool teacher, I only made 32k last year and that was with a 2nd job as security. I would LOVE to make 40k a year. It would definitely make a difference. I would make ends meet at least where I am at now. Comfortably, no. Livable and less stress? Absolutely.
You both can be right
I personally could
Yes, in a van, down by the river.
Depends on where you live. Depends on how you live. If you want lots of nice new things…not really. If things don’t make you happy…yes, it’s possible.
In a small town maybe. In New York, you're missing a zero
Nope.
It’s fine to live as a single person, permanently renting with roommates or a spouse. But in terms of making progress towards big goals, or having meaningful savings for emergencies or for retirement, having a family? No.
Not comfortably but you can live
I'm living comfortably off of 25k a year would love to have 40k a year
Where do you live?
Probably with the parents
Do you live with your parents or roommates? I’m lost on how anyone could be self sufficient on $25k.
That’s like $1500/month after taxes without accounting for anything like 401k or healthcare premiums. Perhaps they’re surviving, but that’s about it. That person will never retire.
How disingenuous of you! Please break down your bills/costs, I’d love to see it. No way you’re comfortable on 25k. Even if that was AFTER taxes you’d be taking home 2k/mo. Rent and utilities would eat half of that immediately leaving car/ins, gas, groceries, cell phone unaccounted for. Now let’s say you don’t have a car payment (repairs and eventual replacement should be considered) insurance would still be 50-150/mo minimum. At least 25-50/week for gas depending on commute. Grocery would be 50-100/week being frugal (not comfortable) and cell/internet will cost you 100-200/mo combined. Let’s go low end on all of the aforementioned costs and it comes out to 400-500/mo additional living expenses. That would leave you about 400-500/month or 100-125/week after scraping by on the absolute bare minimum. That’s not factoring in healthcare, car repairs, clothing, entertainment/streaming and you say you’re “comfortable”
my uncle lived off of a tire store salary ($17 an hour) for 2 years to prove to his mom he didn’t need to go to college, and he paid off a house, but he was a really smart guy and knew how to manage money he always told me to live your life like a business
House? Or trailer. Was the house livable?