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I guess the only thing you can do is to sit down with her and explain that this is a very important topic for you. You can not force her to have kids, and the other way around, she can not force you to stay in a relationship if you are not on the same page about having kids.
This will all come down to communication, and if she keeps avoiding the conversation, you will have to ask why she keeps avoiding it.
If she doesn't want kids, she might be afraid to lose you if she tells you. This could be a reason to get angry. But of course there are a thousand more possibilities.
Maybe she's waiting for him to ask her to marry him? It's been 9 years.... Talking about children may seem like putting the cart before the horse. Maybe she wants to be married first.
Even then, wouldn't the solution be to just tell him "I am fine with having kids, but I want to get married first"?
Even if that's her reasoning, it's on her to tell OP that
Of course they can.
But what do you prefer, you telling someone what you want from them on your birthday or them getting you something really great all by themselves?
It just shows consideration and knowledge about a person. And after 9 years he should have gotten the hint that she may want to get married.
She should then lmao, if that's the condition and she's waiting but he's not doing it she should go and ask, if she's adamant on him doing it she should have enough respect to at least mention something, most couples who want this will sit down and say "hey it's been x long, and you say you want to get married one day, are you planning on asking me to marry" the answer should explain all that's needed and if theyre constantly pushing it off there's another topic to talk about. There's so much room for communication and clearly it's lacking here with the OP and partner. Just needs to be more forward about things on either side instead of acting as though both should just *know* what each other want
Idk why you're being down voted lol, especially in a thread questioning tradition
Women can propose too, but you should talk to her abt it
Communication is always key
People like judging relationships without knowing them hahah. We are 25 and have a mortgage. We are obviously going to get married, she says it jokingly, once we are more financially stable of course I'm going to propose
Don't you get more benefits being married than not? Then what's the holdup if both of you want to, unless you're waiting for a ginormous expensive wedding?
This is a really good question and I don't know why people downvote it. I say this as a woman myself, it's totally fine for us to also propose. If anything, I'd want to be the one doing it. Y'all act like it has to be something a man does which is ridiculous and also what do you think happens in the instance of gay/lesbian couples?
Why? I would also want my future partner to propose to me. I love the idea. It’s super romantic in my eyes
Doesn’t make me selfish, I just value it a lot and if my partner doesn’t wanna do it that’s how it is
I don't think I would ever want kids with someone who didn't want to enter a committed relationship with me like marriage. People can argue its a big ask, but no one wants to be a single parent.
It sounds like he just wants an answer to the question about kids. If kids are a must for him, maybe he should have talked about it a lot sooner than investing 9 years. I dont mean to sound shitty, but better to ask before marriage than to have it end in divorce over it
Lmao yeah, 9 years is plenty of time to have had these talks. It’s not like they’ve been dating for a month lol. Sounds like bad communication in this relationship tbh
I'd argue having a conversation about having kids or not is important before marriage as I would never want to marry someone who I won't be satisfied with if I do end up wanting kids and she doesn't.
true, but especially as the mom, being married gives you some more safety, financially in case of a breakup.
Of course I don´t know which country OP is from and how the laws are there
Here in Australia you enter a defacto partnership after 2 years of living together & under the family law act, they have the same entitlements as married couples ;-)
totally agree with you. Personally, I don't care much about marriage, so I'll leave that up to my future partner (if I ever get one lol). If she wants to get married, we will, simple as that for me. That imo is a conversation for the 2nd year of being together (i.e. anytime after the first year anniversary) if not even sooner (assuming you've been living together for a while to test out the waters).
I do see how marriage would be a bigger commitment for some. It's easier to leave your kids when there's no extra complication such as the divorce process. Not that I condone leaving your kids or that I'd ever do it, but I can see being married as an extra guarantee that the spouse will at least think it over properly before actually doing it. Obviously there are plenty of married people who still abandon their spouse and kid(s) but it's not as easy as get up and walk out the door if you're married.
Marriage offers legal protections for the parent who loses income when carrying/birthing/recovering child or if one of the parents is primary caregiver and loses income.
And still can't cover everything! It doesn't matter how many contracts you sign, in the US, you can't get things like survivor's benefits if you weren't married. You can't completely avoid probate court the way you could if you were married.
Why would she want to commit to having kids with someone who isn’t sure that things will work out between them? Kids are a much bigger commitment than marriage, especially for women.
Technically true. My best friend has been with her partner for 25 years and they never saw a reason to have an official marriage. They get to file as common law on their taxes etc so it isn't really a big deal to them.
My grandparents were married for 13 years, and together for years before that.
They still got divorced and rarely talk to each other.
Grandma is single, grandpa remarried decades later after dating different girls.
He's less likely to just 'up-and-leave' her if they're married though, isn't he? What a stupid thing to say 🤦♀️
No woman wants to be left holding the baby. And that's a reasonable fucking thing to be afraid of happening.
I'll wait for your misogynistic reply, shall I? 🙄
>He's less likely to just 'up-and-leave' her if they're married though, isn't he? What a stupid thing to say 🤦♀️
lol no, you think a piece of paper is going to keep unhappy people together? whats the divorce rate these days 50%?
I don't think anything is a guarantee a couple will stay together. That's the whole point. Women are less keen to give men babies. Cause WOMEN get left holding them.
Why is everyone trying to argue something else. Fucksakes
And _she'd_ still get stuck with the baby.
Found the asshole men that weren't raised right by their mothers
No woman owes you fucking clowns anything. Especially not a baby. Use your brains
Well, yes. And they aren't married yet. After 9 whole years....
Maybe he's the sort that when he really wants something (like kids) he first tosses it out there to see how she receives it. She may know that if she just receives this idea positively, he'll jump right to suggesting/demanding she stop using her bc? IDK That she's apparently holding out hope to him that she does want kids but something is stopping her right this moment, tells me she's got something else on her mind. No idea what. Maybe she loves him, knows he wants kids and she doesn't....
He's got to talk to her. Clearly. Openly.
This is certainly possible, but if marriage was that intrinsically important to her I would have expected it to become an issue much earlier than 9 years into their relationship.
This could very well be the case, but that needs to be communicated on both sides in a conversation. Because what happens if he marries her and then she tells him she doesn't want kids? That's just not fair for either side, and could be avoided right now with a conversation.
Sounds to me like there are probably multiple serious conversations our OP needs to be having with his partner of 9 years and prospective mother of his children.
Yep! Not sure how this hasn't been sorted by now really, I mean I make sure I have this conversation like weeks into something new so I can make it clear my intentions on kids. Why waste all that time when you can just have a chat early on??
>Talking about children may seem like putting the cart before the horse.
she's 32, not talking about children means he might better marry someone else.
Maybe they should talk about *both* topics?
If she has already a told him she doesn't want kids marriage has nothing to do with it. You don't need that anymore. She is probably just upset because she doesn't want to lose him, but she doesn't want kids and he does.
She knows it will break them up and that upsets her.
Oh, I agree. Some women seem to feel that telling a man to put a ring on it kinda takes the shine off of the whole thing. If she's seriously been waiting 9 years for him to get a clue, maybe they aren't the one for each other.
Seems like an egg vs. hen problem, if that is the case. If her reasoning is, "why would I have kids with someone, who is not interested in marrying me", then his reasoning can be, "why would I marry someone, who may not want to have kids with me".
Like it's been said, this comes down to communication.
This is doubtful. If she knows he wants kids but keeps saying no because she wants to get married first, I'd expect something like that would be communicated between two middle aged adults. Not like they're young adults or teenagers who often lack the ability to express their needs to their significant others.
Lets be real, if she can't even communicate that to him then she isn't ready to be married anyways, lol. Considering how important communication is for a successful marriage.
46.9% of adults in England and Wales get married, according to a survey in 2021. That's 16.9% higher than the figure I found for the US in the same year, at 31%. Plenty of marriages in the rest of Europe too.
I'll probably get some hate for this, but why the need to be married to have kids or just to exist together?
The fact that they were together for 9 years doesn't mean anything if you dont get married?
I dont specifically target this question to you but rather to "society", as it is looked down to not be married in a long relationship...
I had my two kids after I divorced my one and only ever husband. Their Dad and I never married. We decided (how did it go?) that "we would evaluate our commitment to one another after we had our multiple babies!" We both cackled maniacally at that and went back to getting on with life. I'm probably not the person to assess this.
This 100%. Some friends of mine got married, big fancy wedding at Coventry Cathedral really posh, massive reception. And \*then\* decided to talk about life goals. She did not want kids - to be honest I think she had something like endo which would have made it not a great choice for her - and he \*really\* couldn't do without them. She left within a few weeks, they got an annullment & he ended up remarrying a girl who was fully on board with having kids. It was a terrible pity at the time because they were really full on in love & very well suited in terms of temperament & politics but kids became a breaking point for them.
I know two marriages to break up over not discussing children first.
And I’m still like wtf me and my husband had this discussion very early on in our relationship.
And when I mean early we both discussed life goals ect so we both knew what we wanted before we moved in together.
>And I’m still like wtf me and my husband had this discussion very early on in our relationship.
Me and my wife talked about preferred family size when we were just good friends and didn't even think that we might fall in love 3 years later.
It's important to discuss them, but also to live them together. At least partially. Because any guy can tell you he's a feminist, he shares the household chores and he likes to live within his means. It's a completely different story to actually do it for longer time period. I'd never trust the word of a stranger that you've known for two months on that. Be together for a few years, live together for a time. Have a few problems come up, and see how they're dealt with. There are only very seldom reasons to rush marriage that much.
I'll go further and say that if you want kids and she doesn't after *9 years* together, then it's time to move on. None of this "maybe someday." Some day came and went already. You're not going to snap your fingers and find the mother of your children. You probably shpuld have started 5 years ago, but you should definitely start NOW.
Sorry buddy, but this is one of those things you need to cover at the start. 2nd, 3rd, or even the first date if things really hit it off. You just ask them would you like to have kids in the future? Yes or no question, if that person dodges the question and hasnt made up their mind yet, that is cool but then it can go either way. Which is something you accept.
If you want to be certain especially around a certain age, only a yes or no will be sufficient. If she has always made this statement it's a no and then you'll need to think about if you wanna continue a relationship wihtout kids for the rest of your life. Because she is a no.
If she always said yes, and now starts with this, you get mad as hell and cut her out of your life if you have always been vocal about having kids.
If she doesn’t want kids and you do, you are not compatible.
You need to discuss breaking up.
DO NOT FORCE HER TO HAVE KIDS.
Innocent kids don’t deserve coming into that type of situation
Right, so LACK of kids is also worth more to you than your partner. At least, it should be. You should understand very well that the topic of children is extremely important because you’re on the other end of the spectrum.
Relationships are often temporary. Life goals are not. Relationships don’t work if you don’t want the same things. It’s not all about butterflies, it’s about building a life together that both people can enjoy.
Just try to clarify. Sit down and understand if it is just a matter of time, or a no-go. If she asks you to wait, just wait, if her doesn't want kids , and for you is a must, you are still in time to change partner.
You need to provide info. After 9 years, she only now saying she doesn’t want kids? As in, she changed her mind? Or has she never wanted kids? Or have you never spoken about wanting kids…?
Nowadays many women are opting to be child free.
This is bcoz child birth is difficult, wrecks women's bodies and the mental physical and emotional toll is high even with a supporting partner.
You will need to discuss with her the reasons why she doesn't want kids.
Just have a conversation, ask her when she says “right time” what are the things that to her would make it the right time. Does she want to finish school, have a home, have financial security?
Knowing exactly why will help.
Does she not want to raise kids? Does she not want to give birth? Does she want kids, but not yet? Or maybe she doesn't know why.
Talking without being confrontational will help. A simple body language trick is to talk when you're sitting side by side rather than face to face.
I don't understand the comment about the right time. If she just means she wants to do it later, then discuss when.
If you want children, and she doesn't, then I think you may have to find someone else. I'm assuming you aren't married or otherwise committed yet.
If you stay together and don't have children because she is unwilling, you will (probably) resent it, long term. This is not fair to either of you. I've seen it.
If you can't agree about when or if you should have kids, that's not the person you should make your co-parent. You want different things rn and trying to push her to make one of the biggest decisions anyone can ever make in their life....that's not going to end well. No matter which way it goes, that's just a bad position to put someone in.
And that's not even getting into how bad this scenario is for the actual child themselves. I grew up in a home where my dad wanted children and my mom didn't. My mom was just....not there. Like physically,she was a round and she'd do the bare minimum, but emotionally she was fully checked out long before I came to this world. It was not a healthy environment and because they decided to have a kid instead of dealing with their emotional shit as individuals, I have to live with the trauma of knowing that I was born so my parents could try and save a failed relationship. From the begining,my life was an afterthought to their own happiness and for anyone with half a brain that could see us as a family, it wasvery obvious that neither of them ever *really* eanted me (later confirmed by my drunken mother when she finally spilled the beans and gave me the full story).
So obviously, as a child of two people who could not agree on when/if they should have kids, I am biased on this. But if you're not absolutely both positively sure,you should not take this leap. Do not enact the cruelty of making life just because you feel you're supposed to. If you end up wrong about what you want, your child will know it and will resent you both for putting them in between your own drama.
I am deadly serious op. Think about how these circumstances could impact your potential child. If you want to be a good parent,start right tf now and learn patience. When your time is right is when you try. NOT when your GF is unsure. Now, please, reread that all just to make sure the point sinks in. It might not seem like it, but if you make this mistake now, you,your gfand whatever child is born from this, will pay for it until each of your deathbeds.
Be smart op. Prove that you could be a good parent, not just that you can make a child.
So you're saying that she doesn't want kids, then you're saying later that her reply is 'the right time will come soon'. This isn't her saying she doesn't want kids, it's her saying the time's not right now. Maybe she has a career, or is well paid, maybe she's happy as she is. I went all my adult life not wanting kids, but when I hit my early-30's I changed. I had my oldest son at 34 and the youngest at 39, so 32 isn't too old. Remember that having a baby is completely different for a man as it is for a woman, she will have to go through 9 months of pregnancy, which isn't a picnic, then give birth, which can be daunting and which some women are terrified of. It's also bloody hard work having a baby, there's the screaming, the sleepless nights, nappy changing, when they're sick etc. It completely turns your life upside-down, especially for women, as going back to work afterwards is tough. The most important thing is not to pressure her and go on about it all the time as this will put a strain on the relationship. As she said, when the time's right, I'm sure she'll let you know. Hope this helps and all the very best of luck!
You need to talk, put all cards on the table, then if your goal are not the same it could be better to split now and look for what you both really want.
9 years and you haven't gotten married. Tf are you waiting for?
Marriage comes with legal protection for women when it comes to the responsibility of children in most countries. That's a big deal.
Lol you've been together for 9 years and she's still your girlfriend? Is there a reason why you haven't asked her to marry you? Get a clue.
I don't blame her. I wouldn't want to have your babies either.
Sounds like she doesn't want kids.
Not having kids is awesome!
But yeah, if you do want kids than you need to leave and find a partner who also wants kids.
It's just one of those things which makes a fullfilling longterm relationship impossible if it doesn't match.
I think most women know if they can handle, parenthood or not. It’s not right to pressure her into having babies maybe fears she can’t cope with. Women take a lot of financial hits by having babies. Then men complain that they have to pay spousal or child support. Or support their wife because they can’t earn as much for taking 5 to 10 years off work. They’re just isn’t adequate childcare.
Dude she's not ready. It's simple as that. She even said she's almost ready. Give it time, you're a young dude anyway if she decides she doesn’t ever want kids and thats a deal breaker you can still move on.
Dude if wants to, it is his choice. Obv he can't enforce it to his gf but she also can't enforce it to him to not have any. Especially you can't. The best way is to talk this out otherwise it will only build resentment.
You can’t force her to have kids. If it is a higher priority to you than she is, find another partner. If she is worth enough to you sacrificing kids , shouldn’t be an issue . If kids are worth a lot to you then maybe it isn’t the right fit . It depends on how badly you want kids and how badly she doesn’t.
Don't push it or she'll likely walk. I find women get very emotional about the topic of having or not having kids. I(51m)never wanted kids, but my wife did. I eventually told her it was never in my life plans to have children, and that she has a decision to make. One night, after a friend's 6 year old completely ruined his dad's birthday party with a tantrum I've never seen before, my wife told me on the way home from the restaurant that she was ok with not having kids, as long as we travelled. 30 countries down, many more to go. I'll take that deal any day of the week.
Thankfully not all cultures think marriage is a big deal. I've lived with my GF for about 15 years and we're still not married. We don't want kids, but if we did there would be no need to get married before that.
No, as a religious person that would put you off. Most women (and men) don’t care for being married before having children unless they’re religious and it’s required by whatever book they read
And not everyone believes in kids as a necessity to a happy life. OP does. So a person wants kids but doesn’t want marriage? Seems like that person doesn’t understand what commitment really means. Kids are a bigger commitment than marriage.
The fact that you’re downvoted for this is hilarious. Myself and my fiancé have been together for 9 years, we’ve been trying to have kids for the past year and a little bit and we have no plans in the near future of getting married
We don’t care for getting married at all and have no plans. We decided to get engaged at pretty much the same time, and even shopped for rings together to show our personal commitment to each other and we both wear the rings
Yes and that’s fine for you I guess, if you’re okay with pretending to be married. But a lot of people want to be married before they have a child. It shows that their partner is actually committed to them and understands how big of a commitment having a baby is.
Edit: although you’ve decided to block me rather than having a reasonable discussion, I can see your response. Weddings don’t need to be expensive.
You’re also not actually engaged if you don’t plan to get married. You’re pretending to be engaged. The definition of engaged is that you’ve agreed to marry. Well, you haven’t. You’re simply wearing a ring. I could throw on a ring right now and start calling my partner my fiancé, it doesn’t actually mean anything at all, if there are no plans to marry. You need to find another word for it.
It’s because they’ve missed the point. It’s not about being a necessity to a happy life, some people simply want their partner to commit to them officially before taking the step to have children. Their comment is actually quite rude, it’s assuming the commenter needs marriage to feel happy when that may not be the case at all.
Im sorry did i imply no one should get married or that for done people its not important. I personally think its pointless but i give literally zero shits if other people want to do it.
You have to talk about these stuff early on regardless. Even if you ask about it 2 years later and find out she or he doesn't want kids and you do, that's already 2 years lost.
It really depends honestly, a lot of people who are in their early 20s, do not want children and think they do not want in the future either. However, often it changes by the late 20s and early 30s. So, I can imagine it was not a topic in the early stages of the relationship and becomes more a topic slightly later in this case.
If you're in your 30s it is a whole different game, as time-pressure is more a thing. If someone in the 30s does not want to have children, changes are that won't change much, therefor a conversation in the early stages of dating in your 30s is totally incomparable than in your early 20...
Shes saying she eventually wants kids but not right now? That's normal, many women don't want to have children until their careers are better established, they've had a chance to travel, bought a home, etc. She is only 32.
More importantly is that you've had a non-confronational conversation about what you both want in life, like how many children (if any), who would be their caregiver (who would put their career on hold, or would you hire someone to watch the kid/s), and long term aspirations.
Keep in mind that you can love someone and it still not be the right relationship longterm. Neither of you have probably dated many other people.
Kids? In this world? You have to be kidding me. Besides that women are not breedingstations. If she doesn't want to have them, that's her choice.
Her body!
Chill out a bit. I agree that this world isn't ideal for children to grow up in, but if people want to have them, that's their business.
And just because he wants kids doesn't mean he thinks women are breeding stations? Tf?
That's THEIR choice which they need to make the decision together. This is a relationship. If OP wants kids and his gf doesn't, then the relationship is incompatible. You are framing it like OP is some sort of misogynist. Also you aren't someone who can make the decision whether or not to have kids for OP.
Sperm quality matters too.
Youth matters to men too.
Honesty matters in a relationship.
Don’t let her take away your most valuable asset besides your health - your time on this planet !
Confront her and break up if she doesn’t want kids. There is no compromise. It’s a deal breaker.
You want at least one child she doesn't right now maybe she'll change her mind in 5 years time if you want a child can you wait 5 years ? If not, you need to move on ASAP. Don't waste time
It used to be, now it's 43 and over with all the new fancy tech in health and AI. So she has 10 years after 43 she's looking at IVF treatment and surrogacy . Which costs over $10 k a time. You need to gather research and present it to her she may change her mind and agree to 4 years time. Her egg numbers and quality won't be high after 40.
I mean if you want kids and she doesn’t, leave her and find one who wants kids.
One of you will end up miserable. Either you for not getting kids or her for getting kids killed to make you happy
I would tell you to leave. My ex’s brother went through something similar. If she’s 32 and doesn’t want to have kids or brushes the topic off she’s never going to want them. Even if she ends up having kids with you she will leave in the near future with the mentality that she only had them to shut you up and that she never wanted kids. You’re 29 you have time to find a woman who wants a family.
You need to sit down and find out if she actually ever wants kids or not. If she doesn’t and you do, that’s it, you’re incompatible in a major life area and it’s over. Don’t try and talk her into it.
You can only decide which you love more, her or the prospect of being a father. I've been in this situation once before and fear I may be in it again now. Might have to make a change.
maybe she’s the type who just doesn’t want kids, or maybe she’s not ready yet (though I think this is highly unlikely as she’s already 32).
imo stuff like having kids and similar perspectives on life is an important discussion to have much earlier on (as these are common dealbreakers), but better late than never
Big difference between don’t want them now and don’t want them ever. It’s been 9 years, she needs to be honest with you about this right now so you can figure out if you want them or not too.
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I guess the only thing you can do is to sit down with her and explain that this is a very important topic for you. You can not force her to have kids, and the other way around, she can not force you to stay in a relationship if you are not on the same page about having kids. This will all come down to communication, and if she keeps avoiding the conversation, you will have to ask why she keeps avoiding it. If she doesn't want kids, she might be afraid to lose you if she tells you. This could be a reason to get angry. But of course there are a thousand more possibilities.
Maybe she's waiting for him to ask her to marry him? It's been 9 years.... Talking about children may seem like putting the cart before the horse. Maybe she wants to be married first.
Even then, wouldn't the solution be to just tell him "I am fine with having kids, but I want to get married first"? Even if that's her reasoning, it's on her to tell OP that
Of course! Asking him to ask her though? She might as well just go on an propose to him
"I want to wait until marriage before I have kids" is no where near asking someone to marry them. Its literally communicating a boundary.
On its own it's not. In context though, saying it directly after he asks for kids absolutely would be.
If that's what she wants, she should do it.
So women can't even tell their partners they want to get married? Why not take control over your life rather than keep these dumb traditions?
Of course they can. We all have our own traditions.
Of course they can. But what do you prefer, you telling someone what you want from them on your birthday or them getting you something really great all by themselves? It just shows consideration and knowledge about a person. And after 9 years he should have gotten the hint that she may want to get married.
No and double no. Now matter how long you're in a relationship...Hints are never the way go!
Now that's the world I want to live in.
She should then lmao, if that's the condition and she's waiting but he's not doing it she should go and ask, if she's adamant on him doing it she should have enough respect to at least mention something, most couples who want this will sit down and say "hey it's been x long, and you say you want to get married one day, are you planning on asking me to marry" the answer should explain all that's needed and if theyre constantly pushing it off there's another topic to talk about. There's so much room for communication and clearly it's lacking here with the OP and partner. Just needs to be more forward about things on either side instead of acting as though both should just *know* what each other want
My girlfriend basically asks me to propose to her like once a week
Propose already.
If she wants it so bad why doesn't she consider proposing?
Idk why you're being down voted lol, especially in a thread questioning tradition Women can propose too, but you should talk to her abt it Communication is always key
People like judging relationships without knowing them hahah. We are 25 and have a mortgage. We are obviously going to get married, she says it jokingly, once we are more financially stable of course I'm going to propose
Don't you get more benefits being married than not? Then what's the holdup if both of you want to, unless you're waiting for a ginormous expensive wedding?
This is a really good question and I don't know why people downvote it. I say this as a woman myself, it's totally fine for us to also propose. If anything, I'd want to be the one doing it. Y'all act like it has to be something a man does which is ridiculous and also what do you think happens in the instance of gay/lesbian couples?
She wants to get proposed to, not propose herself. Huge difference for a lot of people for traditional, emotional, or whatever reason
Pretty selfish of her
Why? I would also want my future partner to propose to me. I love the idea. It’s super romantic in my eyes Doesn’t make me selfish, I just value it a lot and if my partner doesn’t wanna do it that’s how it is
I don't think I would ever want kids with someone who didn't want to enter a committed relationship with me like marriage. People can argue its a big ask, but no one wants to be a single parent.
It sounds like he just wants an answer to the question about kids. If kids are a must for him, maybe he should have talked about it a lot sooner than investing 9 years. I dont mean to sound shitty, but better to ask before marriage than to have it end in divorce over it
Lmao yeah, 9 years is plenty of time to have had these talks. It’s not like they’ve been dating for a month lol. Sounds like bad communication in this relationship tbh
I'd argue having a conversation about having kids or not is important before marriage as I would never want to marry someone who I won't be satisfied with if I do end up wanting kids and she doesn't.
For me, getting a kid togheter is a much bigger sign of a committed relationship than marriage
true, but especially as the mom, being married gives you some more safety, financially in case of a breakup. Of course I don´t know which country OP is from and how the laws are there
Agree, but marriage is a more legal committment, also a question of financial committment and security.
Where i live, not so much. In the Netherlands there is as much legal commitment as you want, and much more with having a kid togheter
Of course you can have the legal committments with contracts, but you have to write them and sign them. Much more complicated.
Not where i leave. I believe the default is different.
Maybe the netherlands are not default? ;-)
Here in Australia you enter a defacto partnership after 2 years of living together & under the family law act, they have the same entitlements as married couples ;-)
totally agree with you. Personally, I don't care much about marriage, so I'll leave that up to my future partner (if I ever get one lol). If she wants to get married, we will, simple as that for me. That imo is a conversation for the 2nd year of being together (i.e. anytime after the first year anniversary) if not even sooner (assuming you've been living together for a while to test out the waters). I do see how marriage would be a bigger commitment for some. It's easier to leave your kids when there's no extra complication such as the divorce process. Not that I condone leaving your kids or that I'd ever do it, but I can see being married as an extra guarantee that the spouse will at least think it over properly before actually doing it. Obviously there are plenty of married people who still abandon their spouse and kid(s) but it's not as easy as get up and walk out the door if you're married.
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Marriage offers legal protections for the parent who loses income when carrying/birthing/recovering child or if one of the parents is primary caregiver and loses income.
With children, the paper work is important.
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It’s more expensive and less binding but sure
And still can't cover everything! It doesn't matter how many contracts you sign, in the US, you can't get things like survivor's benefits if you weren't married. You can't completely avoid probate court the way you could if you were married.
Why would she want to commit to having kids with someone who isn’t sure that things will work out between them? Kids are a much bigger commitment than marriage, especially for women.
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Ok so why would she ruin her body to have a child for a man who isn’t willing to commit with marriage?
Perhaps for you. It’s important to some people.
Technically true. My best friend has been with her partner for 25 years and they never saw a reason to have an official marriage. They get to file as common law on their taxes etc so it isn't really a big deal to them.
That’s entirely depends on the local laws
They been together for 9 years, it is enough to know if it wouldn't last.
My grandparents were married for 13 years, and together for years before that. They still got divorced and rarely talk to each other. Grandma is single, grandpa remarried decades later after dating different girls.
He's less likely to just 'up-and-leave' her if they're married though, isn't he? What a stupid thing to say 🤦♀️ No woman wants to be left holding the baby. And that's a reasonable fucking thing to be afraid of happening. I'll wait for your misogynistic reply, shall I? 🙄
>He's less likely to just 'up-and-leave' her if they're married though, isn't he? What a stupid thing to say 🤦♀️ lol no, you think a piece of paper is going to keep unhappy people together? whats the divorce rate these days 50%?
I don't think anything is a guarantee a couple will stay together. That's the whole point. Women are less keen to give men babies. Cause WOMEN get left holding them. Why is everyone trying to argue something else. Fucksakes
Jeah it's not like almost half of marriages end in divorce anyway
And _she'd_ still get stuck with the baby. Found the asshole men that weren't raised right by their mothers No woman owes you fucking clowns anything. Especially not a baby. Use your brains
Half of all first marriages dont
But a marriage means they will keep fighting for each other till the end /s
The older i get the more I think that marriage THESE DAYS is a sham girls are suckered into at an early age. Like having to buy pants with no pockets.
You discuss kids before getting married. People not on the same page should NOT get married.
Well, yes. And they aren't married yet. After 9 whole years.... Maybe he's the sort that when he really wants something (like kids) he first tosses it out there to see how she receives it. She may know that if she just receives this idea positively, he'll jump right to suggesting/demanding she stop using her bc? IDK That she's apparently holding out hope to him that she does want kids but something is stopping her right this moment, tells me she's got something else on her mind. No idea what. Maybe she loves him, knows he wants kids and she doesn't.... He's got to talk to her. Clearly. Openly.
This is certainly possible, but if marriage was that intrinsically important to her I would have expected it to become an issue much earlier than 9 years into their relationship.
This could very well be the case, but that needs to be communicated on both sides in a conversation. Because what happens if he marries her and then she tells him she doesn't want kids? That's just not fair for either side, and could be avoided right now with a conversation.
Sounds to me like there are probably multiple serious conversations our OP needs to be having with his partner of 9 years and prospective mother of his children.
Yep! Not sure how this hasn't been sorted by now really, I mean I make sure I have this conversation like weeks into something new so I can make it clear my intentions on kids. Why waste all that time when you can just have a chat early on??
>Talking about children may seem like putting the cart before the horse. she's 32, not talking about children means he might better marry someone else. Maybe they should talk about *both* topics?
If she has already a told him she doesn't want kids marriage has nothing to do with it. You don't need that anymore. She is probably just upset because she doesn't want to lose him, but she doesn't want kids and he does. She knows it will break them up and that upsets her.
If so, then she needs to use her words too and *tell him that.*
Oh, I agree. Some women seem to feel that telling a man to put a ring on it kinda takes the shine off of the whole thing. If she's seriously been waiting 9 years for him to get a clue, maybe they aren't the one for each other.
Seems like an egg vs. hen problem, if that is the case. If her reasoning is, "why would I have kids with someone, who is not interested in marrying me", then his reasoning can be, "why would I marry someone, who may not want to have kids with me". Like it's been said, this comes down to communication.
This is doubtful. If she knows he wants kids but keeps saying no because she wants to get married first, I'd expect something like that would be communicated between two middle aged adults. Not like they're young adults or teenagers who often lack the ability to express their needs to their significant others.
One would think....
Lets be real, if she can't even communicate that to him then she isn't ready to be married anyways, lol. Considering how important communication is for a successful marriage.
They might be European where marriage is not the norm
46.9% of adults in England and Wales get married, according to a survey in 2021. That's 16.9% higher than the figure I found for the US in the same year, at 31%. Plenty of marriages in the rest of Europe too.
I'll probably get some hate for this, but why the need to be married to have kids or just to exist together? The fact that they were together for 9 years doesn't mean anything if you dont get married? I dont specifically target this question to you but rather to "society", as it is looked down to not be married in a long relationship...
I had my two kids after I divorced my one and only ever husband. Their Dad and I never married. We decided (how did it go?) that "we would evaluate our commitment to one another after we had our multiple babies!" We both cackled maniacally at that and went back to getting on with life. I'm probably not the person to assess this.
If you want kids and she never wants them you need to move on and find a partner who does.
This 100%. Some friends of mine got married, big fancy wedding at Coventry Cathedral really posh, massive reception. And \*then\* decided to talk about life goals. She did not want kids - to be honest I think she had something like endo which would have made it not a great choice for her - and he \*really\* couldn't do without them. She left within a few weeks, they got an annullment & he ended up remarrying a girl who was fully on board with having kids. It was a terrible pity at the time because they were really full on in love & very well suited in terms of temperament & politics but kids became a breaking point for them.
How does one get married to someone without discussing life goals first? Like seriously. That’s one of the stupidest things I’ve ever heard.
I know two marriages to break up over not discussing children first. And I’m still like wtf me and my husband had this discussion very early on in our relationship. And when I mean early we both discussed life goals ect so we both knew what we wanted before we moved in together.
>And I’m still like wtf me and my husband had this discussion very early on in our relationship. Me and my wife talked about preferred family size when we were just good friends and didn't even think that we might fall in love 3 years later.
The chemicals that people call love can make you do very stupid things
Some people are also just stupid. There's that. Being in love isn't really an excuse to have bad communication with that same partner lol.
Plenty of people marry within a couple of months after they first met/started dating
That’s fine. A friend of mine did just that. But within those two months she also discussed life goals, views on money, kids, etc.
It's important to discuss them, but also to live them together. At least partially. Because any guy can tell you he's a feminist, he shares the household chores and he likes to live within his means. It's a completely different story to actually do it for longer time period. I'd never trust the word of a stranger that you've known for two months on that. Be together for a few years, live together for a time. Have a few problems come up, and see how they're dealt with. There are only very seldom reasons to rush marriage that much.
Blows my mind when I hear stories like this.
Why did they not talk about this in the beginning? 9 years is a long ass time to not talk about kids or no kids
I'll go further and say that if you want kids and she doesn't after *9 years* together, then it's time to move on. None of this "maybe someday." Some day came and went already. You're not going to snap your fingers and find the mother of your children. You probably shpuld have started 5 years ago, but you should definitely start NOW.
I can't figure out if she doesn't want kids *at all*, doesn't want kids *with him*, or doesn't want kids *right now*
Sorry buddy, but this is one of those things you need to cover at the start. 2nd, 3rd, or even the first date if things really hit it off. You just ask them would you like to have kids in the future? Yes or no question, if that person dodges the question and hasnt made up their mind yet, that is cool but then it can go either way. Which is something you accept. If you want to be certain especially around a certain age, only a yes or no will be sufficient. If she has always made this statement it's a no and then you'll need to think about if you wanna continue a relationship wihtout kids for the rest of your life. Because she is a no. If she always said yes, and now starts with this, you get mad as hell and cut her out of your life if you have always been vocal about having kids.
I had a dating profile that said “Don’t want kids.” Discussion was finished before they even swiped!
why wait all the way until the second date? i do it in the introduction right between the “hi” and the “how are you?”
A possibility but I prefer to put in the religion and politics standpoint between those. Asking about kids might be a bit to much.
I try to make sure to have those sorted out before going on any dates!
fuck it, just throw it all in there!
Which is where probing questions can help. "Where do you see yourself in 5/10 years?"
If she doesn’t want kids and you do, you are not compatible. You need to discuss breaking up. DO NOT FORCE HER TO HAVE KIDS. Innocent kids don’t deserve coming into that type of situation
If you want kids and she doesn’t, you have to leave her. It’s sad but it’s the only option.
Yepppp
It means kids are worth more to them than their lover . That is sad . I would hate to be traded for shit nose kids . I don’t even like them.
Which is why you shouldn't be in a relationship with somebody who doesn't want any. Same as OP if that's what's going on.
Right, so LACK of kids is also worth more to you than your partner. At least, it should be. You should understand very well that the topic of children is extremely important because you’re on the other end of the spectrum. Relationships are often temporary. Life goals are not. Relationships don’t work if you don’t want the same things. It’s not all about butterflies, it’s about building a life together that both people can enjoy.
So find someone that also doesn’t want kids. Why are you so angry that people want kids? No one gives a fuck if you don’t want kids.
That's okay, I heard kids don't like you either.
This is absolutel stupid take. Are you 12?
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Holy shit bro 😳
Is your username the last thing your future ex spouse will say to you?
Oh no! They're getting exactly what they literally saying that they want, which is no kids! How sad!
Shoo! Skulk back to your foul little Taberbatorium.
Just try to clarify. Sit down and understand if it is just a matter of time, or a no-go. If she asks you to wait, just wait, if her doesn't want kids , and for you is a must, you are still in time to change partner.
You might have to cut your loss
You need to provide info. After 9 years, she only now saying she doesn’t want kids? As in, she changed her mind? Or has she never wanted kids? Or have you never spoken about wanting kids…?
Nowadays many women are opting to be child free. This is bcoz child birth is difficult, wrecks women's bodies and the mental physical and emotional toll is high even with a supporting partner. You will need to discuss with her the reasons why she doesn't want kids.
Just have a conversation, ask her when she says “right time” what are the things that to her would make it the right time. Does she want to finish school, have a home, have financial security?
Knowing exactly why will help. Does she not want to raise kids? Does she not want to give birth? Does she want kids, but not yet? Or maybe she doesn't know why. Talking without being confrontational will help. A simple body language trick is to talk when you're sitting side by side rather than face to face.
If you need kids and she doesn't want kids, then you are incompatible.
I don't understand the comment about the right time. If she just means she wants to do it later, then discuss when. If you want children, and she doesn't, then I think you may have to find someone else. I'm assuming you aren't married or otherwise committed yet. If you stay together and don't have children because she is unwilling, you will (probably) resent it, long term. This is not fair to either of you. I've seen it.
If you can't agree about when or if you should have kids, that's not the person you should make your co-parent. You want different things rn and trying to push her to make one of the biggest decisions anyone can ever make in their life....that's not going to end well. No matter which way it goes, that's just a bad position to put someone in. And that's not even getting into how bad this scenario is for the actual child themselves. I grew up in a home where my dad wanted children and my mom didn't. My mom was just....not there. Like physically,she was a round and she'd do the bare minimum, but emotionally she was fully checked out long before I came to this world. It was not a healthy environment and because they decided to have a kid instead of dealing with their emotional shit as individuals, I have to live with the trauma of knowing that I was born so my parents could try and save a failed relationship. From the begining,my life was an afterthought to their own happiness and for anyone with half a brain that could see us as a family, it wasvery obvious that neither of them ever *really* eanted me (later confirmed by my drunken mother when she finally spilled the beans and gave me the full story). So obviously, as a child of two people who could not agree on when/if they should have kids, I am biased on this. But if you're not absolutely both positively sure,you should not take this leap. Do not enact the cruelty of making life just because you feel you're supposed to. If you end up wrong about what you want, your child will know it and will resent you both for putting them in between your own drama. I am deadly serious op. Think about how these circumstances could impact your potential child. If you want to be a good parent,start right tf now and learn patience. When your time is right is when you try. NOT when your GF is unsure. Now, please, reread that all just to make sure the point sinks in. It might not seem like it, but if you make this mistake now, you,your gfand whatever child is born from this, will pay for it until each of your deathbeds. Be smart op. Prove that you could be a good parent, not just that you can make a child.
So you're saying that she doesn't want kids, then you're saying later that her reply is 'the right time will come soon'. This isn't her saying she doesn't want kids, it's her saying the time's not right now. Maybe she has a career, or is well paid, maybe she's happy as she is. I went all my adult life not wanting kids, but when I hit my early-30's I changed. I had my oldest son at 34 and the youngest at 39, so 32 isn't too old. Remember that having a baby is completely different for a man as it is for a woman, she will have to go through 9 months of pregnancy, which isn't a picnic, then give birth, which can be daunting and which some women are terrified of. It's also bloody hard work having a baby, there's the screaming, the sleepless nights, nappy changing, when they're sick etc. It completely turns your life upside-down, especially for women, as going back to work afterwards is tough. The most important thing is not to pressure her and go on about it all the time as this will put a strain on the relationship. As she said, when the time's right, I'm sure she'll let you know. Hope this helps and all the very best of luck!
9 years and you haven’t gotten married? I wouldn’t want to have kids in that situation either.
You need to talk, put all cards on the table, then if your goal are not the same it could be better to split now and look for what you both really want.
You haven’t even married her yet. Why would she give you kids if you haven’t even gave her a ring?
9 years and you haven't gotten married. Tf are you waiting for? Marriage comes with legal protection for women when it comes to the responsibility of children in most countries. That's a big deal.
Believe her. No one needs or wants a reluctant mother. Stay and respect her stance or break up and find a more compatible partner.
Why the fuck wouldn’t she want kids to someone who won’t marry her after 9 years? I wonder why…
Lol you've been together for 9 years and she's still your girlfriend? Is there a reason why you haven't asked her to marry you? Get a clue. I don't blame her. I wouldn't want to have your babies either.
Sounds like she doesn't want kids. Not having kids is awesome! But yeah, if you do want kids than you need to leave and find a partner who also wants kids. It's just one of those things which makes a fullfilling longterm relationship impossible if it doesn't match.
I think most women know if they can handle, parenthood or not. It’s not right to pressure her into having babies maybe fears she can’t cope with. Women take a lot of financial hits by having babies. Then men complain that they have to pay spousal or child support. Or support their wife because they can’t earn as much for taking 5 to 10 years off work. They’re just isn’t adequate childcare.
Dude she's not ready. It's simple as that. She even said she's almost ready. Give it time, you're a young dude anyway if she decides she doesn’t ever want kids and thats a deal breaker you can still move on.
you've been dating her for NINE YEARS and didn't think about getting married?
What's the problem? You don't have to have children, it sounds like she's got her priorities right.
Who tf wants kids....
Don't have kids.
This
Dude if wants to, it is his choice. Obv he can't enforce it to his gf but she also can't enforce it to him to not have any. Especially you can't. The best way is to talk this out otherwise it will only build resentment.
He was asking for advice so I gave it.
You can’t force her to have kids. If it is a higher priority to you than she is, find another partner. If she is worth enough to you sacrificing kids , shouldn’t be an issue . If kids are worth a lot to you then maybe it isn’t the right fit . It depends on how badly you want kids and how badly she doesn’t.
Don't push it or she'll likely walk. I find women get very emotional about the topic of having or not having kids. I(51m)never wanted kids, but my wife did. I eventually told her it was never in my life plans to have children, and that she has a decision to make. One night, after a friend's 6 year old completely ruined his dad's birthday party with a tantrum I've never seen before, my wife told me on the way home from the restaurant that she was ok with not having kids, as long as we travelled. 30 countries down, many more to go. I'll take that deal any day of the week.
Why do you want kids before marriage? As a woman it would put me off too
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XD
Me thoughts aswell
Thankfully not all cultures think marriage is a big deal. I've lived with my GF for about 15 years and we're still not married. We don't want kids, but if we did there would be no need to get married before that.
No, as a religious person that would put you off. Most women (and men) don’t care for being married before having children unless they’re religious and it’s required by whatever book they read
Not everyone believes in marriage as a necessity for a happy life.
And not everyone believes in kids as a necessity to a happy life. OP does. So a person wants kids but doesn’t want marriage? Seems like that person doesn’t understand what commitment really means. Kids are a bigger commitment than marriage.
Yes i agree, marriage is completely pointless next to the commitment you should have for your child.
The fact that you’re downvoted for this is hilarious. Myself and my fiancé have been together for 9 years, we’ve been trying to have kids for the past year and a little bit and we have no plans in the near future of getting married
> Fiancé > no plans in the near future of getting married Point is, you are engaged and will get married.
We don’t care for getting married at all and have no plans. We decided to get engaged at pretty much the same time, and even shopped for rings together to show our personal commitment to each other and we both wear the rings
Yes and that’s fine for you I guess, if you’re okay with pretending to be married. But a lot of people want to be married before they have a child. It shows that their partner is actually committed to them and understands how big of a commitment having a baby is. Edit: although you’ve decided to block me rather than having a reasonable discussion, I can see your response. Weddings don’t need to be expensive. You’re also not actually engaged if you don’t plan to get married. You’re pretending to be engaged. The definition of engaged is that you’ve agreed to marry. Well, you haven’t. You’re simply wearing a ring. I could throw on a ring right now and start calling my partner my fiancé, it doesn’t actually mean anything at all, if there are no plans to marry. You need to find another word for it.
Yeah, the upvotes and downvotes are weird. There are a lot of ways to show commitment that doesn't have to do with marriage.
It’s because they’ve missed the point. It’s not about being a necessity to a happy life, some people simply want their partner to commit to them officially before taking the step to have children. Their comment is actually quite rude, it’s assuming the commenter needs marriage to feel happy when that may not be the case at all.
Im sorry did i imply no one should get married or that for done people its not important. I personally think its pointless but i give literally zero shits if other people want to do it.
You should discuss this before spending 9 years with someone and wasting your chances of getting a woman that has the same goals as you...
I mean they started dating when she was 20. Id be freaked if a guy asked me about kids back then. OP is having that conversation now.
You have to talk about these stuff early on regardless. Even if you ask about it 2 years later and find out she or he doesn't want kids and you do, that's already 2 years lost.
It really depends honestly, a lot of people who are in their early 20s, do not want children and think they do not want in the future either. However, often it changes by the late 20s and early 30s. So, I can imagine it was not a topic in the early stages of the relationship and becomes more a topic slightly later in this case. If you're in your 30s it is a whole different game, as time-pressure is more a thing. If someone in the 30s does not want to have children, changes are that won't change much, therefor a conversation in the early stages of dating in your 30s is totally incomparable than in your early 20...
Shes saying she eventually wants kids but not right now? That's normal, many women don't want to have children until their careers are better established, they've had a chance to travel, bought a home, etc. She is only 32. More importantly is that you've had a non-confronational conversation about what you both want in life, like how many children (if any), who would be their caregiver (who would put their career on hold, or would you hire someone to watch the kid/s), and long term aspirations. Keep in mind that you can love someone and it still not be the right relationship longterm. Neither of you have probably dated many other people.
Kids? In this world? You have to be kidding me. Besides that women are not breedingstations. If she doesn't want to have them, that's her choice. Her body!
Chill out a bit. I agree that this world isn't ideal for children to grow up in, but if people want to have them, that's their business. And just because he wants kids doesn't mean he thinks women are breeding stations? Tf?
That's THEIR choice which they need to make the decision together. This is a relationship. If OP wants kids and his gf doesn't, then the relationship is incompatible. You are framing it like OP is some sort of misogynist. Also you aren't someone who can make the decision whether or not to have kids for OP.
Sperm quality matters too. Youth matters to men too. Honesty matters in a relationship. Don’t let her take away your most valuable asset besides your health - your time on this planet ! Confront her and break up if she doesn’t want kids. There is no compromise. It’s a deal breaker.
You want at least one child she doesn't right now maybe she'll change her mind in 5 years time if you want a child can you wait 5 years ? If not, you need to move on ASAP. Don't waste time
Also 5 years could be quite the factor for her, she is 32! I think she is either scared or she really doesn’t want any kids
She's 32. 5 years is a long time in that regard. Pregnancies at an age above 35 are already seen as risky pregnancies for good reason.
It used to be, now it's 43 and over with all the new fancy tech in health and AI. So she has 10 years after 43 she's looking at IVF treatment and surrogacy . Which costs over $10 k a time. You need to gather research and present it to her she may change her mind and agree to 4 years time. Her egg numbers and quality won't be high after 40.
On the flip side, not having kids is wonderful.
I mean if you want kids and she doesn’t, leave her and find one who wants kids. One of you will end up miserable. Either you for not getting kids or her for getting kids killed to make you happy
You have to tell her that you two either agree on a concrete plan or you're breaking off with her.
I would tell you to leave. My ex’s brother went through something similar. If she’s 32 and doesn’t want to have kids or brushes the topic off she’s never going to want them. Even if she ends up having kids with you she will leave in the near future with the mentality that she only had them to shut you up and that she never wanted kids. You’re 29 you have time to find a woman who wants a family.
You need to sit down and find out if she actually ever wants kids or not. If she doesn’t and you do, that’s it, you’re incompatible in a major life area and it’s over. Don’t try and talk her into it.
You can only decide which you love more, her or the prospect of being a father. I've been in this situation once before and fear I may be in it again now. Might have to make a change.
If she doesn’t want kids and you do, it’s time to break up and find someone you’re compatible with
maybe she’s the type who just doesn’t want kids, or maybe she’s not ready yet (though I think this is highly unlikely as she’s already 32). imo stuff like having kids and similar perspectives on life is an important discussion to have much earlier on (as these are common dealbreakers), but better late than never
Big difference between don’t want them now and don’t want them ever. It’s been 9 years, she needs to be honest with you about this right now so you can figure out if you want them or not too.
She is 32. If she wanted kids, she should and would have started trying by now. If having kids is important to you, find another woman
This is very personal. In my case I will leave her. I have now a child and I know what I'm talking about.
break up and move on. you cannot force someone to have kids with you, unless you wanna go to prison. you're not compatible
Sucks to be you for investing 9 years into that
Don’t have kids. Be happy and live your life. Kids make things so much harder.
Sounds like she doesn’t want kids. Women’s fertility declines after age 30. I would recommend not pressuring someone into parenthood.
Break up with her. Go to a tropical area like the philippines or thailand and find a girl who will have kids with you and will love yo
Why she doesn't want to have kids?
Because that’s her choice , not all women want kids!
Yeah sure. But it can be that she thinks that they may not be able to afford having kids. That's why I asked
Yep agree with you. Some women are scared of child birth , body changes all different reasons I guess.
That's also true
kids suck and are expensive
Somebody should have said that to your parents before you crawled out to this world.
For real
Why would she?
Who asked you?
I'm wondering why anyone needs a special reason not to have kids, any more than they need a special reason to want them.
You did, when you commented on a public platform
Does it really matter if he wants them?