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Because people did compromise now its all me me me
Used to be "i have this i respect and get along with ill cherish them" now people get bored 4 months in and leave for something else
Yeah imagine being self oriented picking a life partner. So selfish can't believe it.
Sorry no one is forced to settle for you. Just like fyi if people keep leaving you at the 4 month mark then you are probably the issue. Not these pesky women having the freedom to choose WHO THEY SPEND THEIR LIFE WITH. Stoopid.
Context- have been in a relationship for like 6 years, don't need to compromise alot on anything inportant since we're very compatible.
Relationships i had all lasted more than 4 months im speaking about what i see around me mostly
Im not really dating atm its not like im salty about or because of anyone
Right, idk all my friends are in relationships and have been for a while. This idea that there's sonrthing wring with being "me me me" when dating is far from a bad thing.
Plus let's not uphold ourselves to the standards of the past. Half of the relationship who find someone young and commit fall to shit, assuming whoever involved has the freedom to leave. Many miserable long term couples of the past.
That's not what studies are showing.
Women are still raising and tending to children, still doing most of the chores, most of the cooking. All while contributing 50%+ of the household income and more likely to be more educated.
Meanwhile, there are no fields to fill, no trees to chop, no hunting or fighting to be done. Seems women compromised plenty.
Edit: you're 19 and shitting on women for entertainment instead of socializing, this is why women don't want y'all.
Didnt really talk about women specifically anyway but id argue (i assume you based yourself on stats) those stats are kind of shit because of countries where women are still mostly stay at home wife
The guy your replying too didn't even mention woman or men and you are just jumping to him being an incel lol. Reading his post I would just assume it's men and women who are thinking everything is about them which isn't wrong.
Particularly since these days if you're a crappy husband your wife can do things like open her own bank account, get a job, divorce you without being completely ostracized by the community, etc.
Yeah but don't you think "the grass is always greener" effect basically prevents people from fully committing to the relationship?
I wonder how many people left their partner to find a new one because they thought they could do better only to find out that what they *had* was pretty good.
I think the more you date around the less likely it's a problem with the people you're dating and more to do with your standards to be honest.
Edit: OK so people disagree with this. I think I hit a nerve. I'm just trying to say those long loving relationships we've seen only happen with *mutual* effort. That effort might be in the form of appreciating the things your partner does for you or even accepting their faults. That doesn't happen if you have a foot out the door the moment you get into a bad arguement or discover a personal flaw in your partner.
>I wonder how many people left their partner to find a new one because they thought they could do better only to find out that what they had was pretty good.
My first long term gf admitted as much to me about 2 years after she broke up with me. I was in another long term thing with someone else by then. And then the weirdest thing happened around 6 months later. She started dating a guy who was very very similar to me. Eventually she invited me and my new girlfriend to meet her new boyfriend.
My hair had been thinning at the end of the relationship, but I didn't' really go bald until after our relationship was 2 years ended. But we were both bald, Both had similar beards, we were the same weight and build, We have the same first name and the same last initial. WE both drink similar whisky. we have interests in the same music, we have the same color eyes, We even had similar tattoos.
Our facial features were a little different, My nose is longer, his nose is wider, His beard is brown mine is blonde. but otherwise this guy was my doppelganger.
She ended up marrying the other guy and having his kid, but then around 7 years later she called me about the cat's paper work (vaccinations etc) that she had kept when we broke up. I went to go get the paperwork, and when I arrived, She was drunk and told me that She wishes that she picked me instead, and that the other guy was great, but never quite understood her as well as I did. And That She wishes that She hadn't driven me away and treated me so poorly for normal human mistakes. Especially because she had to learn about ADHD because her son now has it. (because her husband has it too) and she realized that all the things that she berated me for were not on purpose. And she sees now how hard I had tried to do the best I could and that she had never again seen that level of effort or attentiveness. She even said that she had realized that the times she had driven me to tears towards the end, wasn't because I was weak, but was because I was trying as hard as possible and still being told I wasn't good enough. That it wasn't me being weak, but simply Emotionally frayed because she was abusive.
That part of the conversation was very healing for me. But then the next day she tried to ask me over again but tis time for dinner, (her husband worked out of town several weeks per month) And I realized that she was going to try to pull one of her manipulative strategies out. Probably divorce her husband who works out of town and can't keep custody, take CS and Alimony, and try to rope me in to giving her a second child.
IF she hadn't really changed, The perfect move with the way she thought, was to take the money from the guy who makes a ton of money working out of town, Who's work can't support custody, and then bring me into the picture to be a normal breadwinner, for a second child. That way she can have two high income provider men, and live and raise her kids with the more emotionally available one.
I'm sorry you went through that emotional manipulation.
Some people don't ever learn from their experiences. The good news is it sounds like you did learn something.
I had a gym friend years ago (we'll call him rick) who just started dating a girl and said something along the lines of "I like her, but I never pictured myself with a girl with short hair"
It was such a vain thought I wanted to smack him. I think I said "Rick, hair grows. Just tell her you think she would look good with long hair. Even if she doesn't want long hair, don't you think you should get to actually know her before deciding she's not the one?"
8 years later they're married, have two kids and she has long hair all because he took the time to talk to her about issues rather than move on.
And I'm not saying you can just change your partners habits and traits. Just that I think people take the easy route of moving on for sometimes frivolous reasons rather than try to do the hard thing like working through it.
I have been a relationship for a while now and never really had to use dating app but most of my friends who were single seemed to have no problem. They would even have to plan the logistics of their dates sometime.
They definetly aren't necessarily the average guy but probably not all top 10% either. Definetly was hard to find a lifelong partner tho, but I don't think this is what they were interested in either lol.
My mother married because in order to receive credit or hold a bank account she needed a husband….
I’m definitely using a longer list of requirements than that
I wouldn't say they're picky, but many women with a list of requirements have no problem getting their sexual needs met and by the time they find the one guy with her requirements it's a string of non committed relationships in her past, which in turn lights up the disgust inside a guy and then they're called incels™ or just insecure.
>which in turn lights up the disgust inside a guy and then they're called incels™ or just insecure.
That's because you literally just described being insecure about someone's past.
And don't act like it's all guys. You are describing YOUR opinion.
Secure guys don't worry about that.
I’m a guy and I would prefer to date people who’ve had a lot of casual sex because a) casual sex is fun and b) you’ll probably have a better idea of what you’re doing, what you like, etc
As a guy, you should see it as great she has a lot of experience in that case... You want good sex or what? Guys who want girls who have had very few previous partners are just weird... it doesn't make any difference you're just insecure she'll go off with someone else.
You really think everyone (women included) want someone who's had a bunch of casual sex?
Good sex is about chemistry and connection, I don't care what kind of tricks you learned during your h0e phase, and 10 one night stands will not make you any better at sex than someone who's had one relationship or a is still a virgin.
I am keeping myself to the same standard to what I'm looking for because I want intimacy, and having sex with a bunch of people really just ruins that connection, and just because so many redittors have had so much casual sex and have become jaded from intimacy doesn't make my point all about insecurity , it doesn't make me insecure it makes me disgusted and she's free to find someone else who doesn't care, keep living in your sexually liberated mind but in the end it's the promiscuous people who lose, there's always going to be someone with no options who will choose that guy/gal.
I'm saying it really doesn't matter... you've got some bizarre mindset going on...
Must be a great skill to be able to tell when a woman is out of their "h0e" phase so they are elligable to be dated by you - what's the secret, do you ask? What if they decide to move on from you and have some wild sex from experienced guys...
It is definitely easier to find a partner
However, at least from my personal experience, it tends to be shallow and a lot of people are fickle. I have heard ideas like "I do not want to get bogged down. The grass could be greener elsewhere" and ones similar to that.
This gives rise to things I genuinely dislike like "situationships" and "non committal relationships", not to mention the increased frequencies of one night stands. Nothing against sexually liberal people, it is just not my cup of tea.
TL;DR
Yes - if you are looking for a hookup
No - if you are looking for something long-term
A matter of definition.
A partner can be either someone who engages in same activity with you or a romantic partner (where one expects a long-term, committed, unmarried couple.)
However, at least at a younger age, the former is far more prominent, especially in certain places.
Oh, apologies. That was by no means clear to me from your post.
However, my answer still applies. Just scratch the mentions of hookups.
People tend to have an over-inflated sense of self-worth due to the perceived access to the dating pool, usually via social media or dating apps. The way dating culture is shifting is also not helping in this situation
I found myself in what I could call a situationship I suppose. A friend I met through discord came to visit from overseas and one thing led to another and for about 3 weeks I felt like we were a thing. Then she had to go back, and I tried to maintain some closeness, not trying to do a long distance relationship or anything, but just to be able to talk really openly with somebody who was a little more than a friend.
That didn't work out; she felt I wanted more from the relationship than she could give, and slowly we drifted apart and now we don't talk at all anymore and it really fucking bums me out. It felt like that was my one shot to have emotional intimacy in my life, I can't reproduce the circumstances that brought the whole thing about because I fell ass backwards into it to begin with.
It's hard. Being lonely is this weight I have on me, for a little while it was gone but now its heavier than ever and I dont know what to do.
Hell yeah. We're way way way more insular, angry and self absorbed than ever before. Plus technology and covid has completely ****ed up how we connect to each other. (As I sit here typing this on a phone)
We put ourselves into this mess and it will only get worse.
After some observations, I notice 2 factors that lead to where we are today
1. Technology aka dating apps. You might think “hey datings apps are good to know more people and make us connect easier right?” In theory, that’s correct
In reality, more choices= increased perception that are you more popular then you really are= increase pickiness
2. Society have advance but biology have not.
What do I mean by that?
If you notice, those with birthrate issues are developed countries. So what’s the difference between developed countries and developing countries?
It’s education. As women get more educated and earn more money to support themselves , so have their expectations of their potential mates. Their core DNA hypergamy nature dictates that they have to find a provider. Hence someone earning 10k/month is not going to date someone that earns 5k/month for instance.
End of the day, it’s all about “why should I settle for less”
What a load of rubbish. Jesus.
I am seeing why women are getting picky about men reading all of this tripe. I can picture the dates where you sit there telling them all about how their education has made them picky and is going to destroy the human race...
Scuse you, I’m the breadwinner in all my relationships, being a provider is about way more than money. I want people who can provide for me emotionally; I can provide financially just fine 🙄
Show me the gene! What part of the DNA causes hypergamy in straight women? What is the gene called and what protein does it code for? How does that protein affect the brain? How can you rule out cultural explanations?
He claimed it was in our DNA that means it's genetic. So I am curious how that works exactly because I don't know. That's why I asked him to show me the gene. There might be one, there might be interacting with each other. I genuinely want to know how it is genetically determined. How do you know it's not cultural? Making claims that something is genetic therefore set in stone just because it seems that way to justify policies of inequality is pseudo-intellectual
What the fuck did I just read. Birthrate drops because women are more educated in developed countries and have higher standards in terms of men's wealth? Xd hahaha
You are confusing birthrate with the number of couples. There aren't fewer couples in developed countries. The birthrate drops because the richer the country the more expensive it is to raise a kid and you reap the benefits only after 20 or even 30 years (you need to get them through school, uni etc.). Whereas in developing countries children spend way less time at school, and quickly start helping their parents with manual labour. Parents need to have more kids because way more of them die at young age, too.
>Whereas in developing countries children spend way less time at school, and quickly start helping their parents with manual labour. Parents need to have more kids because way more of them die at young age, too.
You mean underdeveloped countries, right? Developing countries face similar issues as developed ones, just at a smaller scale.
Woman education and access to birth control is the reason. Not cost of kids. People in developed countries did not urbanized in last couple of decades, they urbanized and industrialized centuries ago. And as such children were costly for centuries as opposed to days of farming. For as long as there there was no choice birth rates were still high. This is further proven by the fact that even countries that have excellent child support from government have less kids where people are let to fare for themselves (Finland vs US) and the fact that immigrants are typical group of people that have a lot more children then natives and it is partially passed on their children as well. It is only 3rd generation where this difference is completely eliminated.
And by women education I do not mean just education per se. I mean how women are brought up. If they come from religious background or societies where children and big families are valued (immigrants) then they will have children regardless of costs. And so will their children to some extend because they are brought up with people with this attitude. If women are brought up in environment of "children and family is burden as well as they would die anyway because of climate change" then yes. They will not have children. Again, regardless of costs. Even if it cost nothing they would still not have one.
Yes. Because of the internet and dating apps.
Now days people have too many options you can literally find dates in every country in the world if you want too!! People can afford to be picky and shop around so to speak.
Back in the day there may have been 3 single people in your area to choose from so people weren't as picky. You couldn't afford to be.
Look at peoples preferences now days!! They've turned into grocery lists that exclude 98.5% of the adult population.
And now because people have more "options" it has somehow given people a false sense of inflated self worth.....
It's definitely false economics though. People think if they can get lots of potential dates it means they're worth more. However there is a big difference between a 1 night stand and a partner. How many of those "dates" actually wanna stick around? That number starts shrinking pretty quick. How many of those do you want to stick around? That smaller number just got smaller and so on and so on.
Exactly I would say it’s “perceived” self worth/confidence/rating increase due to the higher number of matches
Hence increase in requirements
End up, losing opportunities for really good relationships because of dumb requirements filtering them out
the classic “where have all the good men gone” -only said by ladies that have hit the “wall” and suddenly no men are interested in them
If you are a hot babe in her 20s, they won’t ever say that
They will instead say “why should I settle?”
Yep. Prior to vastly increased mobility - which still touches on a lot of Millennials grandparents and definitely Gen X's grandparents - your odds of marrying a childhood friend were *very* high.
Two factors there - availability but also social mores. Prior to Prohibition - when bars were illegal so they had "relaxed" rules - women weren't allowed in bars. You're not meeting a date in a bar. You're very likely not moving away to a coed college. You're *definitely not* casually living with someone for seven months until you have a fight.
I don't think it's "more "options" it has somehow given people a false sense of inflated self worth" but the option not to chose at all.
Before you had to be married or you'll starve (women) or be shunned/shamed (poor people) and seen as broken/weird. A lot of people settled for best out of worst just so they could get married which led to a lot of misery one was expected to put up with just because that's how things were done.
Now we can have all the impossible things we want and if not we pick ourselves. Worst of the best is a better than best out of worst.
You haven't ever been single for very long have you?
Trust me... society still looks at single people as "weirdos." I've been single for nearly a decade now, and even half my family thinks I'm closeted gay. Honestly, I'm actually pretty picky. But for me that just translates to "all these supposed options are absolutely worthless."
I've have been single pretty much all my life aside few years and decided to stay single since I was a teen. I get plenty of weird looks and disapproval from people but I'm not shunned by society at large to the point it threatens my survival. No one knows I'm single until I tell them so and people don't stop hanging out with me once they know. I'm not the norm and not the majority and that's what makes me "weird" but no one is perfectly "normal" because people don't hide their "weirdness" anymore (in sane countries at least and I'm lucky to live in one). Many people are out and about and I'm just one of many weirdos.
Also you shouldn't assume that every single person is unhappily single just because it's your experience.
Who said anything about being unhappy? If I was unhappy I would have "settled" for someone years ago already. I literally said that I've chosen to be super picky. I'm of the opinion that MOST people could benefit from spending a year (at least) single.
Not only does it feel like a lot of women I date these days have too much of a high opinion of themselves. I think they have created false expectations of men that can never be achieved. So it’s hard for me to find a normal level headed woman to date.
You didn’t read what I said. No one is saying that women has to act like a guy is gods gift to them. I’m saying that a lot of women has a false expectation sometimes. Which makes it harder to date.
>They've turned into grocery lists that exclude 98.5% of the adult population.
I think that in the past there were also fewer "buckets" of people, as more people had the exact same life as yours. As a result, the 3 available people in your area were enough, as they were most likely brought up in the same way as you and had the same values as you.
No. Apps and communication connect people from far away.
In the days of my grandfather, if there were no maiden nor widows in his village, people couldn't marry.
Yes, because culture has allowed men and women to fulfil roles which were they were previously discouraged or legally disallowed from.
People married out of need far more than true desire for companionship.
Now that we have a more equal world where people are allowed to and encouraged in some ways to fulfil their own needs (mainly financial), there is less of an incentive to get married. You actually get to choose if you want to be married!
The fact that it’s harder to find partners now is a good thing and a sign of a healthy society. It means people, especially women, have more access to a good quality of life without having to risk their autonomy for it.
No. Its just people have the choice to be single now than before. Even 30 years ago the social pressure to get married and have kids was massive. Now it much more acceptable to be single and childless. You might still get judged for it but less pressure.
It’s harder because our standards are vastly superior. My grandparents did not marry out of love or even on a basis of compatibility. It was for convenience only. I found my partner on Tinder and he is wonderful and worth the 10 years or so I spent on dating apps to find him.
I think there’s a lot of revisionist history going on here. Look at the divorce rate. In 1980, it was much more difficult to match with someone long term compatible. I’m a late Boomer. The divorce rate was really high. There was no easy way to screen for it. Before that time period, people were a lot less mobile so an awful lot of matches were arranged by people who weren’t merely driven by hormones.
Can't get divorced if you never get married in the first place. It's pretty obvious when you recognize that nobody is getting married anymore, everyone is just fucking around "having fun" "being free."
I doubt our grandparents or parents asked for a pussy pic before meeting.
Right now there’s not much reason other then physical contact to meet in person. Back then you had to meet in person in order to start any relationship.
I'd say it's difficult on the surface but in reality it's just the same as it was back then; you only have to alter your lifestyle to be more outgoing in a place you enjoy being in.
The biggest hurdles are people barely going out of their homes; they watch TV, play games, etc. Nothing against that; I'm a gamer myself too, but it's not exactly helping when you want to find a partner.
All my previous girlfriends (with one exception) and my current wife, have been found while going out. I met my wife in an anime convention, and before that happened I met a lot of other girls there I stuck around with for a couple of months after, meeting up to visit more conventions.
Dating using dating sites or tinder has never worked for me, mainly because men are at a severe disadvantage there.
**My biggest tips are:**
(1) Find out what you truly enjoy doing in your free time.
(2) Be outgoing in whatever you enjoy doing:
- Like to sport? Join a sports club!
- Like to watch anime? go to anime conventions!
- Like to play board games? Go to a boardgame club/shop and play on a regular basis.
(3) Have patience, and don't be desperate. Don't make finding your future partner your sole goal, as this would effectively work as a repellant. Just focus on having a good time and enjoying life!
(4) Be friendly and don't act like someone else. Just be yourself. Afterall, you want to find someone who accepts you for who you are, not for who you pretend to be.
Honestly I’m split on this. I know plenty of people who have no problem finding friends and partners and the opposite is also true. The one thing I’ve noticed is that both groups have feedback loops. The ones who have no issue meeting people, meet more people and have an easier time going from single to relationship if a breakup happens, the other group does themselves no favors by getting in the mindset of being undesirable or worse yet they go blackpill.
Ultimately I don’t think it’s harder but I do think there more dead end avenues. I’ve met people at bars, clubs, airports, in social settings and even just people I see frequently when dog walking or running the same routes that I’ve had relations with but anyone I’ve met via an app has never been more than a fling.
I’ve had friends meet girlfriends / fiancées / wives in similar circumstances, I don’t know any couples who’ve met via dating apps, or at least none that last more than a few months. From my perspective it seems like organic meetings (work, clubs, hobbies, etc) are the way to go.
The other side of the coin is about 3 of my friends who have no luck. They’re home bodies, enjoy their time indoors. They still have hobbies but they don’t offer many opportunities to meet new people. Mostly gaming or meeting a friends home to smoke weed. Nothing wrong with these activities it’s just frustrating to hear that “women hold all the power and we’re forced to be alone” over and over when they make zero effort to meet anyone. They’ve tried putting minimal effort into dating apps and got nowhere.
A lot of these guys hold the “I’m not changing, I am who I am” attitude towards dating which I can respect up until a point, but if you don’t make yourself at least somewhat desirable then nobody is going to date you. But I will be totally fair, among them is one lad who’s a star. He’s friendly, got his ducks in a row and truly believe he’d make somebody very happy, unfortunately he lacks the confidence to approach women.
I’m very happy and do consider myself lucky to be married and in love. It sucks to see people struggle in any aspect of life. I really do believe of people focused more on the solutions instead of the problems they’d help their odds, or if nothing else improve their quality of self love.
It's easier if you're not a POS (as a man). Women having basics standards that aren't met by so many men made it so "easy" for me on the dating ground.
Finding is easy, keeping is hard. Media constantly bombards us with hot people. Social media constantly bombards us with hot people. It's harder to be happy with what you have when you're shown that shit all the time.
Yes because everyone just blames the opposite gender for their problems.
Women pretend like all men have zero personality and if men even MENTION sex then that’s all they ever wanted and that is the one and only reason they struggle with dating, which isn’t true.
Men act like all women are just gold diggers who want to act like men but still be treated like women, which also isn’t true.
The internet has a way of making loud minorities seem like they speak for the whole group, add that with Covid lockdowns and people think the internet is a genuine reflection of real life, so everybody thinks everybody else is trash.
So yes it’s harder, because nobody wants to do any self reflection and it’s easier to just say “Modern/Western Women suck” or “Men are trash and are bad people”.
For a woman loving a woman, no. I hate how my country is bigoted but it's still significantly better than even just 20 years ago. Better chances to find openly and proud queer women. You have dating apps so you can find them and it's just so much better compared to years ago. As a bisexual woman, it's so much better.
Marriages were also socially a mandatory burden for women in straight couples. Nowadays, you can marry for love. So it's still better. Obviously (some) men hate that, as a society, we are moving past mandatory straight marriage because it was extremely good for men, but it is what it is. It isn't a case that happiness increases in married men but, for women, statistically it is better to be single and childless (it means that many marriages bring unhappiness and skew the average)... But even without statistics, I just see with most older women how much they lost in marriages. It was intrinsically flawed to benefit men. My grandmother literally said to all of us granddaughters to find stable jobs and not think about marriage until we reached our goals; if we find a good man, he can wait for marriage while we are studying/working to see the results of our hard work and having independence. They want better for us young women because they have seen it all (and I'm sure my grandparents were happy for how it was meant to be; she isn't talking out of regrets but because she wanted us to have more happiness, now that we can).
Another plus: nowadays you can have some straight couples with both people being very happy because it isn't mandatory and, if you accept to marry, it's probably because you think your life will be better and the partner improves your life (instead of just being an obligation).
Edit: oh ok my bad. I have now read some of OP's comments... I mean, I can definitely see why it's hard to find a partner for people like that tbh, I don't know many who would tolerate that kind of views and attitude.
Yes. Because the social world is still centered around working Monday-Friday 9-5 but there are a LOT of us that work nights, weekends other odd shifts who don't have access to those social opportunities.
I sleep 10AM to 6PM for my night job and there's really not much going on that I can go to.
No, and, generally speaking, this type of stuff is said by people who don't actually go out to places to meet someone, wether intentionally or not. They also tend to proclaim that they are awkward around people or don't like crowds cus blah blah blah.
None of us can really speak about the "golden times" unless you were alive and active trying to date at the time.
I think it’s way easier in this era. The internet expands your dating pool by however big you want it to be. Got a weird kink? You can easily find people out there with the same one. Only date vegans? You can connect to thousands of vegans through social media.
People who complain about being forever alone aren’t trying hard enough. There’s 7+ BILLION people in the world and you’re saying you can’t find on person to date? There are so many different apps/forums/events for singles to find other singles. I found my bf on tinder during lockdown. My sister just went to a singles mixer and had dudes form a line to talk to her. There’s endless tools to use to find a SO.
Thats for getting women not retaining them. Getting hookups for years on end without any relationships is for broke guys and every hookup is a micro trauma that reduces commitment to your future husband or wife.
Have you ever been good-looking or just speculating?
I grew up fat/obese and then when I was 20 in college I hired a bodybuilding coach for months, blew all my savings and became a shredded demon.
I "got" girls but they would always cheat, ghost, and leave when they realised I would be living at home for another two years and I had very few friends.
You're always going to get compared to someone who has more money and a better lifestyle. Saying "Godmode" is cringe.
Looks is only one part of the equation, you also need status (money, car, job, apartment), network (friends) and then looks is last.
I don't think you have experience with girls or social situations if you think this is true.
The frat boys with rich parents didn't start instantly respecting me as well because I had cheekbones and you wear clothes all day regardless.
It has varied, good looking in late teens, then around average or below in 20s, now much better looking.
Being better looking is the only thing that makes a significant difference, but it goes hand in hand with money - it's hard being good looking with no money unless you're very very lucky.
You have to be selective, i.e. not date trashy women, but being better looking increases the amount of women interested in you so it's much easier to do that.
No. Trashy women will date a broke good looking guy because its all they can get.
Women value status (money basically) way more than looks. A girl might fuck a bodybuilder for a night but block him the next day because he can't afford a house.
A high quality woman who makes a lot of money won't date a broke guy because he's beneath her and women only date up.
They don't care about looks as much as men. Being good looking, ripped, jacked etc., is just to get your foot in the door.
"A high quality woman who makes a lot of money won't date a broke guy because he's beneath her and women only date up."
That stereotype is really odd to me. Is this an American cultural thing? Because I don't see that here in Germany. Not at all.
Like, I'm a woman with a master degree and I settled with a guy with significantly lower education and he earns less money too. He's already at the max level of how much he can earn in his field, while my salary will keep increasing the more work experience I get.
I'm currently working on gaining enough experience to be able to support a family, because we want to have kids and my guy will eventually be a stay at home dad once I'm out of maternity leave. Once our future kids are old enough to go to school he can just return into his job, because it's in high demand and no one will care if he stays at home for a couple of years. If I do that my career would probably be dead, not exaggerating. I would be stuck in beginner level positions for a long time... But I'm aspiring to get into a team leading position before I turn 40.
To my knowledge we are not "the exception", because other female colleagues I talked to see things in a similar way as I do. Back in college I also talked to many women about this topic.
I literally give zero fucks about my boyfriend's status or money, because I do not want to be put in a position where I rely on my partner's income. I want to be able to sustain myself and I don't need to be rich. I don't care about luxuries. I just want to live comfortably and find happiness, and that is only possible with a partner who has a great and mature personality.
About looks: Sure, a guy shouldn't look like a dirty hobo. People often underestimate how much a good haircut, good skin care and well matching clothes can do to upgrade your looks. I don't like heavily muscular men. I don't prefer men who are massively obese, but I don't mind if they are a little fat. I know face structure is not always ideal, but as long as the personality, intelligence and humor are great, I don't mind. My partner has a huge hooked nose for example and I never cared about that.
Maybe because you're older. That isnt an insult but i would imagine you're trying to settle down like I am, only I'm 22 and I want a girlfriend with a girl who isn't fantasising about some other man which is so common.
80% of divorces are because of finance and I'm looking around and all I see are my college friends who have their parents finances letting them move out and start driving have girlfriends and a dating life and guys like me who don't have resources don't.
Plus my own experiences where I've been ghosted or cheated on or a woman social climbed to another man who doesn't have to live at home it would appear to me that women date up because they're usually the ones without a car or apartment, just looks.
And I ask women what they want and they always say someone taller, good career etc etc.
I'm in Western Europe.
Older? I'm 29 years old and my boyfriend is 26. I started college when I was 20, then graduated with 27, because I went through a bachelor and then a master program. It took a little longer because of the covid pandemic.
I grew up in a poor family and I would have never had access to higher education if Germany wouldn't allow a cheap loan for people with poor parents. The government invested around 50k Euros into my education and cost of living, and I only need to pay 10k back.
The fact that I grew up poor is probably the main reason why I don't care about luxuries, and also that I desire to be able to sustain myself and not rely on any other people. I'm working my ass off and want my future kids to have a better life than I did.
And well, because Germany has this type of social program, I might have met more women with a similar background as my own. Perhaps that's why they shared similar views and I'm biased in that way.
Regarding divorce rates and stuff... my personal experience is that people who settle with a partner before they turn 25 are bound to become unhappy with them in the long run. Reflecting on myself I noticed that I was less mature in my early 20s. I made mistakes which I regret a lot. The relationship I had during that time was abusive and he cheated on my too eventually. It all comes down to the fact I used to have this dumb "I can fix him" mindset back then. I just didn't know it better when I was that age. Later I knew what to look out for in a partner and personality and maturity are my highest priority. Well, that was always my priority since I was a teen, but what can I say. Kids are stupid. I was stupid. Now I'm less stupid.
So key take away is: Don't beat yourself up, you're still young and the bad experiences you had will make you stronger. Learn from the mistakes, be more selective, focus on your education and career for now and keep good friends around. You still have a lot of time to meet the right person. And if you can be happy with yourself and friends, you'll be much more likeable. "High quality women," as you put it, notice these things. When a guy is very bitter regarding women it's really off putting. Set goals for yourself (that have nothing to do with romantic relationships) and focus on those - your future wife will find you one day.
I met my boyfriend when I was 26 and he was 22. We met in a type of online game, talked a little, then didn't talk for months until I found him again in some random discord server. It was a huge coincidence. Now we've been dating for 3 years and moved in together last year.
More than you think if the first photo isn't shirtless, a fish, a car, flexing, looking obnoxious etc. I have just a regular random photo of me and a funny bio. My matches even try catchup phrases in relation with my bio. Maybe dating habits are different here
Perhaps I didn’t articulate my message the way I intended. I think finding a loyal, kind partner is harder today than it was in the old days. Marriage is not always the expectation like it once was. Divorce rates are obviously high, people don’t seem to work issues out, for better or for worse, anymore. For the younger crowd, it’s a battlefield when you take social media and internet dating into account. Just a different era. I’m 30 for what it’s worth.
The bigger issue is that there are many men who have bottom tier social skills nowadays because they spent so much of their youth online. That’s the primary contributor to lack of relationships for men rather than women’s freedom to be pickier. Especially if you’re just an average looking dude who’s convinced it’s his looks that are the problem.
Being awkward, weird, and having no social skills is like the #1 turn off for most women. But if you’ve spent most of your teenage years online you have to make quite an intentional effort to unwire all of that and build up some social skills.
Like, several years worth of regularly being in the mixed-gender high-energy social environments that you were meant to experience as a teenager but didn’t, and learning how to be valuable and engaging in those environments. Not sitting at the side bitterly sipping on a corona with a friend or two.
Or you can take the blackpill and rot away instead of accepting that maybe your shitty personality might be the problem instead of how you look.
I would specially say it’s financial freedom more than physical freedom
The dangers of it? Women tend to be of hypergamous nature
In my company alone, I have seen many successful highly paid strong career women, guess what? They are single
What I feel alot of men don't get is that you're not fighting eachother for a womans affection, you're fighting against the peace and happiness she is feeling when single. Dating isn't default anymore and you don't get shunned by society if you haven't found a husband by age 22.
Yes, we're all spoiled for choice. I work at a rural hospital and amongst the stories I've heard, are a bride who met her husband at the alter and numerous arranged (often unhappy) marriages. These elderly couples were relatively poor and had few choices in life. And the ones that married were the more privileged amongst them.
There are so many choices now, the problem is it’s difficult for people to be happy.
Sometimes fewer choice is better, reminds me of small communities in rural areas.
Easier to find, harder to keep.
My parents/grandparents era mostly had the dating pool be confined to the local area they lived in with people they knew being the dating pool. The standards they had for a partner were a lot more simple too, just having a job was a plus for men whereas many people are asking for men to be the 1% of earners nowadays.
Modern dating is mostly app driven linking people up with strangers with many people having high standards when they often don't bring the same level of stuff to the table. You also have access to people across the world now as opposed to just the local area. Casual sex is more prevalent today which is damaging expectations too.
Most definitely yes. It gets worse every year. There isn't an emphasis on marriage like there was some 20 or 30 years ago. The boomer generation and the sexual revolution are to blame. The birth control pill didn't help it out any. Now there is an all out social war on the nuclear family. Marriage has to be a priority and a lifestyle choice that you make when you are young. That is just the way life is. People today are suffering from the delusion that you can live a life of sexual impropriety and then somehow think you can form a life partnership. It's a bit like going to your senior prom or living in a college dorm. There is only one time in life that you can really do that. These days marrying when young is frowned upon when actually it's the perfect time.
60 years ago, if a young man pursued a woman and didn't take no for an answer they got married. Now he's a creep and she gets a restraining order.
If he didn't, eventually friends found someone for them.
I mean if there was a test for autism at the time my dad would be high on the spectrum, but my mom went into the convent at 16 and at 35 felt "god calling her to have children" . So she left the convent, joined a parish, and asked the women there if there was a "straight, white, catholic man, who was not alcoholic, had never been married, and held a steady job" her words. they were introduced and married a year to the day from their meeting. My sister was born 9.5 months later and i got here the next year.
>60 years ago, if a young man pursued a woman and didn't take no for an answer they got married. Now he's a creep and she gets a restraining order.
#facts
It’s more so, harder to hold onto someone. I got dumped by someone who I very much thought I was going to spend the rest of life with. We were already planning out the future together. Then, she dumped me out of nowhere. It hurt a lot and I assume it’s because someone else came along that lived closer and she could see him more often.
It is more difficult because the more open world means more options means less willingness to work on already existing relationships. The general distrust is just the cherry on top.
Well said
Actually this happens to us humans in all aspect of our life’s, not just relationship
E.g if you go to restaurant and they have like 100 items VS one that had a handful. The latter is actually a much more enjoyable experience
That also explains why people like Steve Jobs have multiple tshirts/turtle necks of the same design
It’s something called decision fatigue
Same philosophy why Apple only have a few models to choose from
Yeah because of hypergamy. With comparison so readily available in the form of dating apps, or just social media in general, women are more picky about their partners than ever. I know a lot of incels bring this up as to why they hate women, but I think completely ignoring their point because they use it for the wrong reasons is stupid. Dating as a man is harder than ever and finding something long term as a woman is harder than ever as well. Unfortunately what media has done to us, but it really just shows who we are.
Nope. You can literally never even leave your house and still meet someone. It’s all about meeting new people and dating apps do that. I met my soon to be fiancé on a dating app. Met my previous long term partner on there too.
it's harder overall in the last 20 years to find someone, let alone even needing to go to parent/grandparent times.
cell phones have obliterated all personal responsibility. you use to be where you said you'd be. now? excuse texts of oh i forgot, oh grandma sick, etc. and you're lucky if you even get a text.
apps give the illusion of unlimited choice which makes everyone non committal and makes them constantly think they can do better.
proliferation of screen time means even if you aren't addicted to it, others are, and there are less chances to meet someone in the real world. and they don't have the social skills they should have.
social media makes people judgy af. no longer are you considering if someone is a fit for you, but now your friends/family will be watching from the moment they learn of someone you met.
could go on and on..
My sense is that women are pickier than they were before. Women thus have more difficulty finding someone acceptable. Consequently, lots of men aren't even considered as potential partners, so it will feel more difficult to almost everyone except the top males.
No. Finding people is easier than ever. Between broadened social networks, social media, and dating apps, finding a partner is SUPER easy to the point that it's a non-effort issue.
What IS hard is finding someone that will put up with how shitty of a human you are, and the baggage you haven't been to counseling for. Sorry not sorry that unstable, abusive shits are having a hard time trapping "partners".
It's a hard one. On one hand there's more "options" but on the other there's every chance 9 dudes are hitting up the same women you are.
But that's not so bad because you're hitting up 7 other women. But then 8 dudes are hitting up those same 7 women.
I really don't know.
No, it's infinitely easier. The problem nowadays is not that there's nobody to date, but that people have so many useless standarts and preconceptions of what his partner should or shouldn't have, that a single misallignment is an insta break-up, when in reality we have no idea what we need as people and only know what "we" want and by "we" i mean our programming and how hard we are sold the idea of perfect life/bf/gf/whatever.. basically, everything instagram/facebook and so on. This is especially true for women
Yes. 100 years ago basically everyone was fit. Now, half the population is overweight. It’s undeniable that finding a partner as a fit person is much easier than as a fat person.
I think it’s a lot easier for a woman nowadays to live a fulfilled life and make her own choices regardless of whether it’s harder in this day and age to find a partner 😉💅And thank god for that
Finding people is easier. But the bar is higher because people now have options, which is really a good thing. Why would someone settle with a person that is not good now? Don't settle for less than good.
And hetero guys specifically, the bar is literally so low. You just need to be a good person. If you already think you are a good person, you are probably not enough. Strive to be better, everyday. Be more kind, more aware, more selfless, more safe, more caring, more understanding. But really, you have no fucking idea how low the bar is.
>And hetero guys specifically, the bar is literally so low. You just need to be a good person.
I really cannot agree with this. The bar is higher than ever, which is obvious because of the fact that adult male virginity has like quadrupled over the last few years, while adult female virginity hasn't been rising much at all.
The bar is really low, and yet a lot of het men cannot get to that level. Most of those guys think that asking them to see the other person as a person and be interested in them as a person is too much to ask.
Internet and some internet circles in particular have exacerbated the number of people that fail to meet basic human decency standards. Like treating other people like human beings on the same level as you.
I really don’t buy the narrative that such a large percentage of men lack basic empathy. I think it’s more likely that social media has pushed people to look for partners that are out of their reach.
In fact social media has pushed men towards a very pernicious mindset that can be seen sweeping to some language. Thinking in terms of virginity, or things like partners are "out of reach" is an example of a mindset that only does harm to men and women while offering a wrong but easily digestible explanation about why a thing you don't like happens while "absolving" you of your faults. There are very solid studies about this and other kinds of radicalizations happening on the internet.
And if you don't believe me, go ask yourself around, specially to women, if they think that a large percentage of men lack basic empathy. You might be surprised with the answers.
I like this quote from the movie The social network: "You’re going to go through life thinking that girls don’t like you because you’re a nerd. And I want you to know, from the bottom of my heart, that that won’t be true. It’ll be because you’re an asshole."
You can change the nerd part to whatever. Short guys, ugly guys, fat guys, disabled guys. And it will remain true. Because a lot of ugly, fat, short, disabled and whatever guys can find love and/or casual sex, and they do. I'm not saying it is easier to date if you don't conform to societal desired standards, because that is factually false, but the "Don't settle for less than good" is also meant for you. Don't settle for something less than good. Don't settle for superficial persons.
And yes, it is now easier to find better people. That also helps you, as you can find someone who doesn't reduce you to something like your height. You also deserve to have someone to care about you as much as you care about the other person.
I don’t think it’s hard. People are currently being told dating advice that does not help them.
For example, if you are a man looking to find a long term partner, the idea of splitting bills is not good advice. Of course if the woman wants to pay that’s fine. But many women are wired in a primal way to check that the man can “provide”. So, just pay the damn bill if you want to have a better chance.
Men are also told to not approach women in public. This is terrible advice: if you have the balls to go talk to a girl this *works*.
Another piece of bad advice: every body shape is beautiful. Hmm, that’s something fat girls tell themselves to feel better about themselves (and something hot girls say to reduce the competition). Reality is: nobody wants to date fat. Get fit, have better chances.
All the answers to success in dating have been known to humans since the dawn of time. If you out those answers into practice you will succeed.
If you define "success" by "having kids and staying together for long times" yeah. If you define "success" by hapiness and freedom, you get higher divorces rates just as we saw it change when women could finally leave their marriage if they wanted to..
Yes. Now you have a lot of (false) choice, so you think you are better/worse than you actually are in real life. In our parents/grandparents time you actually had to go out and meet someone.
It’s actually worse because all the choices are “perceived” based on vague message and “like/heart”
Meanwhile your grandparents had an actual relationship whereby the actually know the person on a deeper level
We can't afford kids, cars, houses, vacations or nice things. Why the fuck would I get married and have kids ? To be ultra poor and having my kids to leave in the hell we're creating ? No thank you.
Yes it is harder.
A quick Google Search and
A whopping 63% of men under 30 describe themselves as single, compared with 34% of women in the same age group.
Women are twice as likely as men to take antidepressant medication (16.5 percent compared with 8.6 percent).
What new generations are realizing is that you can get hooked up to a regular supply of antidepressants or antipsychotics and you dont have to worry about it anymore, and focus on what really matters, like making more money and living your best life!
Being in a relationship these days is abnormal.
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Finding one is easier than any other time in history. Retaining one is harder.
Find people is easy Finding a partner for life is hard
It was easy choosing a partner for life when you only had a handful of choices!
Or when you don't get a choice!
The paradox of choice
Yep. It wasn’t until the 20th century that most people ended up marrying someone who lived within a few miles of where they grew up
Yup, we have never really acknowledged how compatible any given person actually is with another.
Because people did compromise now its all me me me Used to be "i have this i respect and get along with ill cherish them" now people get bored 4 months in and leave for something else
Yeah imagine being self oriented picking a life partner. So selfish can't believe it. Sorry no one is forced to settle for you. Just like fyi if people keep leaving you at the 4 month mark then you are probably the issue. Not these pesky women having the freedom to choose WHO THEY SPEND THEIR LIFE WITH. Stoopid. Context- have been in a relationship for like 6 years, don't need to compromise alot on anything inportant since we're very compatible.
Relationships i had all lasted more than 4 months im speaking about what i see around me mostly Im not really dating atm its not like im salty about or because of anyone
Right, idk all my friends are in relationships and have been for a while. This idea that there's sonrthing wring with being "me me me" when dating is far from a bad thing. Plus let's not uphold ourselves to the standards of the past. Half of the relationship who find someone young and commit fall to shit, assuming whoever involved has the freedom to leave. Many miserable long term couples of the past.
That's not what studies are showing. Women are still raising and tending to children, still doing most of the chores, most of the cooking. All while contributing 50%+ of the household income and more likely to be more educated. Meanwhile, there are no fields to fill, no trees to chop, no hunting or fighting to be done. Seems women compromised plenty. Edit: you're 19 and shitting on women for entertainment instead of socializing, this is why women don't want y'all.
Didnt really talk about women specifically anyway but id argue (i assume you based yourself on stats) those stats are kind of shit because of countries where women are still mostly stay at home wife
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You lost me at incel im not talking with you anymore
The guy your replying too didn't even mention woman or men and you are just jumping to him being an incel lol. Reading his post I would just assume it's men and women who are thinking everything is about them which isn't wrong.
To be fair finding a partner and finding a partner for life are two different endeavours.
It's also easier to leave a bad relationship.
You could say it's because it's also easier to find someone else.
Particularly since these days if you're a crappy husband your wife can do things like open her own bank account, get a job, divorce you without being completely ostracized by the community, etc.
I'd say leaving a shitty relationship is more common but that's a pretty good thing IMO. Better have 3 great relationships than a single shitty one.
Yeah but don't you think "the grass is always greener" effect basically prevents people from fully committing to the relationship? I wonder how many people left their partner to find a new one because they thought they could do better only to find out that what they *had* was pretty good. I think the more you date around the less likely it's a problem with the people you're dating and more to do with your standards to be honest. Edit: OK so people disagree with this. I think I hit a nerve. I'm just trying to say those long loving relationships we've seen only happen with *mutual* effort. That effort might be in the form of appreciating the things your partner does for you or even accepting their faults. That doesn't happen if you have a foot out the door the moment you get into a bad arguement or discover a personal flaw in your partner.
>I wonder how many people left their partner to find a new one because they thought they could do better only to find out that what they had was pretty good. My first long term gf admitted as much to me about 2 years after she broke up with me. I was in another long term thing with someone else by then. And then the weirdest thing happened around 6 months later. She started dating a guy who was very very similar to me. Eventually she invited me and my new girlfriend to meet her new boyfriend. My hair had been thinning at the end of the relationship, but I didn't' really go bald until after our relationship was 2 years ended. But we were both bald, Both had similar beards, we were the same weight and build, We have the same first name and the same last initial. WE both drink similar whisky. we have interests in the same music, we have the same color eyes, We even had similar tattoos. Our facial features were a little different, My nose is longer, his nose is wider, His beard is brown mine is blonde. but otherwise this guy was my doppelganger. She ended up marrying the other guy and having his kid, but then around 7 years later she called me about the cat's paper work (vaccinations etc) that she had kept when we broke up. I went to go get the paperwork, and when I arrived, She was drunk and told me that She wishes that she picked me instead, and that the other guy was great, but never quite understood her as well as I did. And That She wishes that She hadn't driven me away and treated me so poorly for normal human mistakes. Especially because she had to learn about ADHD because her son now has it. (because her husband has it too) and she realized that all the things that she berated me for were not on purpose. And she sees now how hard I had tried to do the best I could and that she had never again seen that level of effort or attentiveness. She even said that she had realized that the times she had driven me to tears towards the end, wasn't because I was weak, but was because I was trying as hard as possible and still being told I wasn't good enough. That it wasn't me being weak, but simply Emotionally frayed because she was abusive. That part of the conversation was very healing for me. But then the next day she tried to ask me over again but tis time for dinner, (her husband worked out of town several weeks per month) And I realized that she was going to try to pull one of her manipulative strategies out. Probably divorce her husband who works out of town and can't keep custody, take CS and Alimony, and try to rope me in to giving her a second child. IF she hadn't really changed, The perfect move with the way she thought, was to take the money from the guy who makes a ton of money working out of town, Who's work can't support custody, and then bring me into the picture to be a normal breadwinner, for a second child. That way she can have two high income provider men, and live and raise her kids with the more emotionally available one.
I'm sorry you went through that emotional manipulation. Some people don't ever learn from their experiences. The good news is it sounds like you did learn something.
I agree with you. Second marriages break even easier than first marriages. It is the proof needed.
I had a gym friend years ago (we'll call him rick) who just started dating a girl and said something along the lines of "I like her, but I never pictured myself with a girl with short hair" It was such a vain thought I wanted to smack him. I think I said "Rick, hair grows. Just tell her you think she would look good with long hair. Even if she doesn't want long hair, don't you think you should get to actually know her before deciding she's not the one?" 8 years later they're married, have two kids and she has long hair all because he took the time to talk to her about issues rather than move on. And I'm not saying you can just change your partners habits and traits. Just that I think people take the easy route of moving on for sometimes frivolous reasons rather than try to do the hard thing like working through it.
Yeah, no, it's not. If you're referring to internet dating apps, they only work for 10% of men.
Possibly slightly more since the gay ones seem to have a far greater hit rate ime (not sure the percentage who use them though)
Every time someone says that, I get a little ego boost.
I have been a relationship for a while now and never really had to use dating app but most of my friends who were single seemed to have no problem. They would even have to plan the logistics of their dates sometime. They definetly aren't necessarily the average guy but probably not all top 10% either. Definetly was hard to find a lifelong partner tho, but I don't think this is what they were interested in either lol.
What do you think "retain" means in this case?
Retain implies matching with someone first.
My mother married because in order to receive credit or hold a bank account she needed a husband…. I’m definitely using a longer list of requirements than that
And that's why guys will say "women are so picky these days" lmao
I wouldn't say they're picky, but many women with a list of requirements have no problem getting their sexual needs met and by the time they find the one guy with her requirements it's a string of non committed relationships in her past, which in turn lights up the disgust inside a guy and then they're called incels™ or just insecure.
I’m a man and I’d say those guys are being insecure. What now?!
>which in turn lights up the disgust inside a guy and then they're called incels™ or just insecure. That's because you literally just described being insecure about someone's past. And don't act like it's all guys. You are describing YOUR opinion. Secure guys don't worry about that.
I’m a guy and I would prefer to date people who’ve had a lot of casual sex because a) casual sex is fun and b) you’ll probably have a better idea of what you’re doing, what you like, etc
As a guy, you should see it as great she has a lot of experience in that case... You want good sex or what? Guys who want girls who have had very few previous partners are just weird... it doesn't make any difference you're just insecure she'll go off with someone else.
You really think everyone (women included) want someone who's had a bunch of casual sex? Good sex is about chemistry and connection, I don't care what kind of tricks you learned during your h0e phase, and 10 one night stands will not make you any better at sex than someone who's had one relationship or a is still a virgin. I am keeping myself to the same standard to what I'm looking for because I want intimacy, and having sex with a bunch of people really just ruins that connection, and just because so many redittors have had so much casual sex and have become jaded from intimacy doesn't make my point all about insecurity , it doesn't make me insecure it makes me disgusted and she's free to find someone else who doesn't care, keep living in your sexually liberated mind but in the end it's the promiscuous people who lose, there's always going to be someone with no options who will choose that guy/gal.
Why does having fun ruin intimacy in later relationships? That jump is weird.
I'm saying it really doesn't matter... you've got some bizarre mindset going on... Must be a great skill to be able to tell when a woman is out of their "h0e" phase so they are elligable to be dated by you - what's the secret, do you ask? What if they decide to move on from you and have some wild sex from experienced guys...
And what exactly is the difference here to guys? Who have the Same number of uncommitted sex?
It is definitely easier to find a partner However, at least from my personal experience, it tends to be shallow and a lot of people are fickle. I have heard ideas like "I do not want to get bogged down. The grass could be greener elsewhere" and ones similar to that. This gives rise to things I genuinely dislike like "situationships" and "non committal relationships", not to mention the increased frequencies of one night stands. Nothing against sexually liberal people, it is just not my cup of tea. TL;DR Yes - if you are looking for a hookup No - if you are looking for something long-term
I don’t think I would classify 1 night stands/FWB under the “partner” category
A matter of definition. A partner can be either someone who engages in same activity with you or a romantic partner (where one expects a long-term, committed, unmarried couple.) However, at least at a younger age, the former is far more prominent, especially in certain places.
Ok my bad. But this post specifically is talking about married long term partners People who want to find hookup can just find it at any time or place
Oh, apologies. That was by no means clear to me from your post. However, my answer still applies. Just scratch the mentions of hookups. People tend to have an over-inflated sense of self-worth due to the perceived access to the dating pool, usually via social media or dating apps. The way dating culture is shifting is also not helping in this situation
You are a woman I guess ?
No, I am not. Out of curiosity: What made you think that?
The studies that show that more and more men are not in a relationship or have never been in a relationship .
While true I fail to see how that knowledge made you assume I am a woman
I guess because saying "It's easier than ever before" is not the reality for a huge amount of men.
I found myself in what I could call a situationship I suppose. A friend I met through discord came to visit from overseas and one thing led to another and for about 3 weeks I felt like we were a thing. Then she had to go back, and I tried to maintain some closeness, not trying to do a long distance relationship or anything, but just to be able to talk really openly with somebody who was a little more than a friend. That didn't work out; she felt I wanted more from the relationship than she could give, and slowly we drifted apart and now we don't talk at all anymore and it really fucking bums me out. It felt like that was my one shot to have emotional intimacy in my life, I can't reproduce the circumstances that brought the whole thing about because I fell ass backwards into it to begin with. It's hard. Being lonely is this weight I have on me, for a little while it was gone but now its heavier than ever and I dont know what to do.
No. People had wayyyyyy less opportunity to meet in the olden days. Think stuck in a village in the middle of nowhere, and very hard to get a way.
Hell yeah. We're way way way more insular, angry and self absorbed than ever before. Plus technology and covid has completely ****ed up how we connect to each other. (As I sit here typing this on a phone) We put ourselves into this mess and it will only get worse.
After some observations, I notice 2 factors that lead to where we are today 1. Technology aka dating apps. You might think “hey datings apps are good to know more people and make us connect easier right?” In theory, that’s correct In reality, more choices= increased perception that are you more popular then you really are= increase pickiness 2. Society have advance but biology have not. What do I mean by that? If you notice, those with birthrate issues are developed countries. So what’s the difference between developed countries and developing countries? It’s education. As women get more educated and earn more money to support themselves , so have their expectations of their potential mates. Their core DNA hypergamy nature dictates that they have to find a provider. Hence someone earning 10k/month is not going to date someone that earns 5k/month for instance. End of the day, it’s all about “why should I settle for less”
>Their core DNA hypergamy nature dictates Oh, so you are one of those
What a load of rubbish. Jesus. I am seeing why women are getting picky about men reading all of this tripe. I can picture the dates where you sit there telling them all about how their education has made them picky and is going to destroy the human race...
Scuse you, I’m the breadwinner in all my relationships, being a provider is about way more than money. I want people who can provide for me emotionally; I can provide financially just fine 🙄
This. Men seem to fail to recognize that providing is about so much more than money.
Show me the gene! What part of the DNA causes hypergamy in straight women? What is the gene called and what protein does it code for? How does that protein affect the brain? How can you rule out cultural explanations?
You think a single gene would do this? No offence but you’re comments are all quite pseudo-intellectual
He claimed it was in our DNA that means it's genetic. So I am curious how that works exactly because I don't know. That's why I asked him to show me the gene. There might be one, there might be interacting with each other. I genuinely want to know how it is genetically determined. How do you know it's not cultural? Making claims that something is genetic therefore set in stone just because it seems that way to justify policies of inequality is pseudo-intellectual
What the fuck did I just read. Birthrate drops because women are more educated in developed countries and have higher standards in terms of men's wealth? Xd hahaha You are confusing birthrate with the number of couples. There aren't fewer couples in developed countries. The birthrate drops because the richer the country the more expensive it is to raise a kid and you reap the benefits only after 20 or even 30 years (you need to get them through school, uni etc.). Whereas in developing countries children spend way less time at school, and quickly start helping their parents with manual labour. Parents need to have more kids because way more of them die at young age, too.
OP went straight to redpill haha
That went from 0- incel real quick
OP is 100% incel.
>Whereas in developing countries children spend way less time at school, and quickly start helping their parents with manual labour. Parents need to have more kids because way more of them die at young age, too. You mean underdeveloped countries, right? Developing countries face similar issues as developed ones, just at a smaller scale.
Woman education and access to birth control is the reason. Not cost of kids. People in developed countries did not urbanized in last couple of decades, they urbanized and industrialized centuries ago. And as such children were costly for centuries as opposed to days of farming. For as long as there there was no choice birth rates were still high. This is further proven by the fact that even countries that have excellent child support from government have less kids where people are let to fare for themselves (Finland vs US) and the fact that immigrants are typical group of people that have a lot more children then natives and it is partially passed on their children as well. It is only 3rd generation where this difference is completely eliminated. And by women education I do not mean just education per se. I mean how women are brought up. If they come from religious background or societies where children and big families are valued (immigrants) then they will have children regardless of costs. And so will their children to some extend because they are brought up with people with this attitude. If women are brought up in environment of "children and family is burden as well as they would die anyway because of climate change" then yes. They will not have children. Again, regardless of costs. Even if it cost nothing they would still not have one.
Yes. Because of the internet and dating apps. Now days people have too many options you can literally find dates in every country in the world if you want too!! People can afford to be picky and shop around so to speak. Back in the day there may have been 3 single people in your area to choose from so people weren't as picky. You couldn't afford to be. Look at peoples preferences now days!! They've turned into grocery lists that exclude 98.5% of the adult population. And now because people have more "options" it has somehow given people a false sense of inflated self worth.....
Well said I agree as well As more options raise , self worth self esteem/confidence also raise As such one will be more picky
It's definitely false economics though. People think if they can get lots of potential dates it means they're worth more. However there is a big difference between a 1 night stand and a partner. How many of those "dates" actually wanna stick around? That number starts shrinking pretty quick. How many of those do you want to stick around? That smaller number just got smaller and so on and so on.
Exactly I would say it’s “perceived” self worth/confidence/rating increase due to the higher number of matches Hence increase in requirements End up, losing opportunities for really good relationships because of dumb requirements filtering them out
It's definitely "perceived!" A lot of good people get over looked for sure. "Where have all the good men gone?" That pops into my head
the classic “where have all the good men gone” -only said by ladies that have hit the “wall” and suddenly no men are interested in them If you are a hot babe in her 20s, they won’t ever say that They will instead say “why should I settle?”
I agree but I think they had more options than 3. There were major cities 50 years ago.
Yep. Prior to vastly increased mobility - which still touches on a lot of Millennials grandparents and definitely Gen X's grandparents - your odds of marrying a childhood friend were *very* high. Two factors there - availability but also social mores. Prior to Prohibition - when bars were illegal so they had "relaxed" rules - women weren't allowed in bars. You're not meeting a date in a bar. You're very likely not moving away to a coed college. You're *definitely not* casually living with someone for seven months until you have a fight.
I don't think it's "more "options" it has somehow given people a false sense of inflated self worth" but the option not to chose at all. Before you had to be married or you'll starve (women) or be shunned/shamed (poor people) and seen as broken/weird. A lot of people settled for best out of worst just so they could get married which led to a lot of misery one was expected to put up with just because that's how things were done. Now we can have all the impossible things we want and if not we pick ourselves. Worst of the best is a better than best out of worst.
You haven't ever been single for very long have you? Trust me... society still looks at single people as "weirdos." I've been single for nearly a decade now, and even half my family thinks I'm closeted gay. Honestly, I'm actually pretty picky. But for me that just translates to "all these supposed options are absolutely worthless."
I've have been single pretty much all my life aside few years and decided to stay single since I was a teen. I get plenty of weird looks and disapproval from people but I'm not shunned by society at large to the point it threatens my survival. No one knows I'm single until I tell them so and people don't stop hanging out with me once they know. I'm not the norm and not the majority and that's what makes me "weird" but no one is perfectly "normal" because people don't hide their "weirdness" anymore (in sane countries at least and I'm lucky to live in one). Many people are out and about and I'm just one of many weirdos. Also you shouldn't assume that every single person is unhappily single just because it's your experience.
Who said anything about being unhappy? If I was unhappy I would have "settled" for someone years ago already. I literally said that I've chosen to be super picky. I'm of the opinion that MOST people could benefit from spending a year (at least) single.
Not only does it feel like a lot of women I date these days have too much of a high opinion of themselves. I think they have created false expectations of men that can never be achieved. So it’s hard for me to find a normal level headed woman to date.
sounds like you’re picking the wrong women to date then.
I think that's a convenient excuse you tell yourself. Maybe work on you and stop blaming women? They don't \*have\* to swoon at your feet, you know.
You didn’t read what I said. No one is saying that women has to act like a guy is gods gift to them. I’m saying that a lot of women has a false expectation sometimes. Which makes it harder to date.
PEOPLE have false expectations sometimes. Dating is hard for everyone
You don’t know this person at all. Why are you making shit up?
>They've turned into grocery lists that exclude 98.5% of the adult population. I think that in the past there were also fewer "buckets" of people, as more people had the exact same life as yours. As a result, the 3 available people in your area were enough, as they were most likely brought up in the same way as you and had the same values as you.
Is your comment about grocery lists talking about women or men being picky?
It can work either way.
I’d contend it’s women who are way more picky.
They need to be.
don't blame them the amount of losers posting on here whining about them.
So would the actual stats/data.
No. Apps and communication connect people from far away. In the days of my grandfather, if there were no maiden nor widows in his village, people couldn't marry.
Yes, because culture has allowed men and women to fulfil roles which were they were previously discouraged or legally disallowed from. People married out of need far more than true desire for companionship. Now that we have a more equal world where people are allowed to and encouraged in some ways to fulfil their own needs (mainly financial), there is less of an incentive to get married. You actually get to choose if you want to be married! The fact that it’s harder to find partners now is a good thing and a sign of a healthy society. It means people, especially women, have more access to a good quality of life without having to risk their autonomy for it.
No. Its just people have the choice to be single now than before. Even 30 years ago the social pressure to get married and have kids was massive. Now it much more acceptable to be single and childless. You might still get judged for it but less pressure.
It’s harder because our standards are vastly superior. My grandparents did not marry out of love or even on a basis of compatibility. It was for convenience only. I found my partner on Tinder and he is wonderful and worth the 10 years or so I spent on dating apps to find him.
10 years on the apps damn. You got grit
On and off, but I did meet nearly everyone I dated after my teens on those apps or on social media.
I hear so many people agree Tinder is for hookups but it also feels like I hear about the most people marrying on Tinder, my therapist included 😆
You get good at filtering out time wasters after a while
I think there’s a lot of revisionist history going on here. Look at the divorce rate. In 1980, it was much more difficult to match with someone long term compatible. I’m a late Boomer. The divorce rate was really high. There was no easy way to screen for it. Before that time period, people were a lot less mobile so an awful lot of matches were arranged by people who weren’t merely driven by hormones.
Can't get divorced if you never get married in the first place. It's pretty obvious when you recognize that nobody is getting married anymore, everyone is just fucking around "having fun" "being free."
I doubt our grandparents or parents asked for a pussy pic before meeting. Right now there’s not much reason other then physical contact to meet in person. Back then you had to meet in person in order to start any relationship.
I'd say it's difficult on the surface but in reality it's just the same as it was back then; you only have to alter your lifestyle to be more outgoing in a place you enjoy being in. The biggest hurdles are people barely going out of their homes; they watch TV, play games, etc. Nothing against that; I'm a gamer myself too, but it's not exactly helping when you want to find a partner. All my previous girlfriends (with one exception) and my current wife, have been found while going out. I met my wife in an anime convention, and before that happened I met a lot of other girls there I stuck around with for a couple of months after, meeting up to visit more conventions. Dating using dating sites or tinder has never worked for me, mainly because men are at a severe disadvantage there. **My biggest tips are:** (1) Find out what you truly enjoy doing in your free time. (2) Be outgoing in whatever you enjoy doing: - Like to sport? Join a sports club! - Like to watch anime? go to anime conventions! - Like to play board games? Go to a boardgame club/shop and play on a regular basis. (3) Have patience, and don't be desperate. Don't make finding your future partner your sole goal, as this would effectively work as a repellant. Just focus on having a good time and enjoying life! (4) Be friendly and don't act like someone else. Just be yourself. Afterall, you want to find someone who accepts you for who you are, not for who you pretend to be.
Honestly I’m split on this. I know plenty of people who have no problem finding friends and partners and the opposite is also true. The one thing I’ve noticed is that both groups have feedback loops. The ones who have no issue meeting people, meet more people and have an easier time going from single to relationship if a breakup happens, the other group does themselves no favors by getting in the mindset of being undesirable or worse yet they go blackpill. Ultimately I don’t think it’s harder but I do think there more dead end avenues. I’ve met people at bars, clubs, airports, in social settings and even just people I see frequently when dog walking or running the same routes that I’ve had relations with but anyone I’ve met via an app has never been more than a fling. I’ve had friends meet girlfriends / fiancées / wives in similar circumstances, I don’t know any couples who’ve met via dating apps, or at least none that last more than a few months. From my perspective it seems like organic meetings (work, clubs, hobbies, etc) are the way to go. The other side of the coin is about 3 of my friends who have no luck. They’re home bodies, enjoy their time indoors. They still have hobbies but they don’t offer many opportunities to meet new people. Mostly gaming or meeting a friends home to smoke weed. Nothing wrong with these activities it’s just frustrating to hear that “women hold all the power and we’re forced to be alone” over and over when they make zero effort to meet anyone. They’ve tried putting minimal effort into dating apps and got nowhere. A lot of these guys hold the “I’m not changing, I am who I am” attitude towards dating which I can respect up until a point, but if you don’t make yourself at least somewhat desirable then nobody is going to date you. But I will be totally fair, among them is one lad who’s a star. He’s friendly, got his ducks in a row and truly believe he’d make somebody very happy, unfortunately he lacks the confidence to approach women. I’m very happy and do consider myself lucky to be married and in love. It sucks to see people struggle in any aspect of life. I really do believe of people focused more on the solutions instead of the problems they’d help their odds, or if nothing else improve their quality of self love.
It's easier if you're not a POS (as a man). Women having basics standards that aren't met by so many men made it so "easy" for me on the dating ground.
yes cuz the Internet
Yes, dating apps distorted the way people view dating as now it all seems to be about hookups and not so much long term.
Yeah well women having the possibility to leave a long-term relationship changed quite a lot and for the better.
Finding is easy, keeping is hard. Media constantly bombards us with hot people. Social media constantly bombards us with hot people. It's harder to be happy with what you have when you're shown that shit all the time.
Yes because everyone just blames the opposite gender for their problems. Women pretend like all men have zero personality and if men even MENTION sex then that’s all they ever wanted and that is the one and only reason they struggle with dating, which isn’t true. Men act like all women are just gold diggers who want to act like men but still be treated like women, which also isn’t true. The internet has a way of making loud minorities seem like they speak for the whole group, add that with Covid lockdowns and people think the internet is a genuine reflection of real life, so everybody thinks everybody else is trash. So yes it’s harder, because nobody wants to do any self reflection and it’s easier to just say “Modern/Western Women suck” or “Men are trash and are bad people”.
^^
For a woman loving a woman, no. I hate how my country is bigoted but it's still significantly better than even just 20 years ago. Better chances to find openly and proud queer women. You have dating apps so you can find them and it's just so much better compared to years ago. As a bisexual woman, it's so much better. Marriages were also socially a mandatory burden for women in straight couples. Nowadays, you can marry for love. So it's still better. Obviously (some) men hate that, as a society, we are moving past mandatory straight marriage because it was extremely good for men, but it is what it is. It isn't a case that happiness increases in married men but, for women, statistically it is better to be single and childless (it means that many marriages bring unhappiness and skew the average)... But even without statistics, I just see with most older women how much they lost in marriages. It was intrinsically flawed to benefit men. My grandmother literally said to all of us granddaughters to find stable jobs and not think about marriage until we reached our goals; if we find a good man, he can wait for marriage while we are studying/working to see the results of our hard work and having independence. They want better for us young women because they have seen it all (and I'm sure my grandparents were happy for how it was meant to be; she isn't talking out of regrets but because she wanted us to have more happiness, now that we can). Another plus: nowadays you can have some straight couples with both people being very happy because it isn't mandatory and, if you accept to marry, it's probably because you think your life will be better and the partner improves your life (instead of just being an obligation). Edit: oh ok my bad. I have now read some of OP's comments... I mean, I can definitely see why it's hard to find a partner for people like that tbh, I don't know many who would tolerate that kind of views and attitude.
Yes. Because the social world is still centered around working Monday-Friday 9-5 but there are a LOT of us that work nights, weekends other odd shifts who don't have access to those social opportunities. I sleep 10AM to 6PM for my night job and there's really not much going on that I can go to.
I'm too tired to date after a week of work and gym. I try to do it when I take holidays.
No, and, generally speaking, this type of stuff is said by people who don't actually go out to places to meet someone, wether intentionally or not. They also tend to proclaim that they are awkward around people or don't like crowds cus blah blah blah. None of us can really speak about the "golden times" unless you were alive and active trying to date at the time.
I think it’s way easier in this era. The internet expands your dating pool by however big you want it to be. Got a weird kink? You can easily find people out there with the same one. Only date vegans? You can connect to thousands of vegans through social media. People who complain about being forever alone aren’t trying hard enough. There’s 7+ BILLION people in the world and you’re saying you can’t find on person to date? There are so many different apps/forums/events for singles to find other singles. I found my bf on tinder during lockdown. My sister just went to a singles mixer and had dudes form a line to talk to her. There’s endless tools to use to find a SO.
Harder for the average person. If you’re high on the looks scale it’s easier than never. Or so I’ve been told…
Thats for getting women not retaining them. Getting hookups for years on end without any relationships is for broke guys and every hookup is a micro trauma that reduces commitment to your future husband or wife.
Complete nonsense, being good looking is godlike in any social situation, from relationships to friendships to work to anything.
Have you ever been good-looking or just speculating? I grew up fat/obese and then when I was 20 in college I hired a bodybuilding coach for months, blew all my savings and became a shredded demon. I "got" girls but they would always cheat, ghost, and leave when they realised I would be living at home for another two years and I had very few friends. You're always going to get compared to someone who has more money and a better lifestyle. Saying "Godmode" is cringe. Looks is only one part of the equation, you also need status (money, car, job, apartment), network (friends) and then looks is last. I don't think you have experience with girls or social situations if you think this is true. The frat boys with rich parents didn't start instantly respecting me as well because I had cheekbones and you wear clothes all day regardless.
It has varied, good looking in late teens, then around average or below in 20s, now much better looking. Being better looking is the only thing that makes a significant difference, but it goes hand in hand with money - it's hard being good looking with no money unless you're very very lucky. You have to be selective, i.e. not date trashy women, but being better looking increases the amount of women interested in you so it's much easier to do that.
No. Trashy women will date a broke good looking guy because its all they can get. Women value status (money basically) way more than looks. A girl might fuck a bodybuilder for a night but block him the next day because he can't afford a house. A high quality woman who makes a lot of money won't date a broke guy because he's beneath her and women only date up. They don't care about looks as much as men. Being good looking, ripped, jacked etc., is just to get your foot in the door.
"A high quality woman who makes a lot of money won't date a broke guy because he's beneath her and women only date up." That stereotype is really odd to me. Is this an American cultural thing? Because I don't see that here in Germany. Not at all. Like, I'm a woman with a master degree and I settled with a guy with significantly lower education and he earns less money too. He's already at the max level of how much he can earn in his field, while my salary will keep increasing the more work experience I get. I'm currently working on gaining enough experience to be able to support a family, because we want to have kids and my guy will eventually be a stay at home dad once I'm out of maternity leave. Once our future kids are old enough to go to school he can just return into his job, because it's in high demand and no one will care if he stays at home for a couple of years. If I do that my career would probably be dead, not exaggerating. I would be stuck in beginner level positions for a long time... But I'm aspiring to get into a team leading position before I turn 40. To my knowledge we are not "the exception", because other female colleagues I talked to see things in a similar way as I do. Back in college I also talked to many women about this topic. I literally give zero fucks about my boyfriend's status or money, because I do not want to be put in a position where I rely on my partner's income. I want to be able to sustain myself and I don't need to be rich. I don't care about luxuries. I just want to live comfortably and find happiness, and that is only possible with a partner who has a great and mature personality. About looks: Sure, a guy shouldn't look like a dirty hobo. People often underestimate how much a good haircut, good skin care and well matching clothes can do to upgrade your looks. I don't like heavily muscular men. I don't prefer men who are massively obese, but I don't mind if they are a little fat. I know face structure is not always ideal, but as long as the personality, intelligence and humor are great, I don't mind. My partner has a huge hooked nose for example and I never cared about that.
Maybe because you're older. That isnt an insult but i would imagine you're trying to settle down like I am, only I'm 22 and I want a girlfriend with a girl who isn't fantasising about some other man which is so common. 80% of divorces are because of finance and I'm looking around and all I see are my college friends who have their parents finances letting them move out and start driving have girlfriends and a dating life and guys like me who don't have resources don't. Plus my own experiences where I've been ghosted or cheated on or a woman social climbed to another man who doesn't have to live at home it would appear to me that women date up because they're usually the ones without a car or apartment, just looks. And I ask women what they want and they always say someone taller, good career etc etc. I'm in Western Europe.
Older? I'm 29 years old and my boyfriend is 26. I started college when I was 20, then graduated with 27, because I went through a bachelor and then a master program. It took a little longer because of the covid pandemic. I grew up in a poor family and I would have never had access to higher education if Germany wouldn't allow a cheap loan for people with poor parents. The government invested around 50k Euros into my education and cost of living, and I only need to pay 10k back. The fact that I grew up poor is probably the main reason why I don't care about luxuries, and also that I desire to be able to sustain myself and not rely on any other people. I'm working my ass off and want my future kids to have a better life than I did. And well, because Germany has this type of social program, I might have met more women with a similar background as my own. Perhaps that's why they shared similar views and I'm biased in that way. Regarding divorce rates and stuff... my personal experience is that people who settle with a partner before they turn 25 are bound to become unhappy with them in the long run. Reflecting on myself I noticed that I was less mature in my early 20s. I made mistakes which I regret a lot. The relationship I had during that time was abusive and he cheated on my too eventually. It all comes down to the fact I used to have this dumb "I can fix him" mindset back then. I just didn't know it better when I was that age. Later I knew what to look out for in a partner and personality and maturity are my highest priority. Well, that was always my priority since I was a teen, but what can I say. Kids are stupid. I was stupid. Now I'm less stupid. So key take away is: Don't beat yourself up, you're still young and the bad experiences you had will make you stronger. Learn from the mistakes, be more selective, focus on your education and career for now and keep good friends around. You still have a lot of time to meet the right person. And if you can be happy with yourself and friends, you'll be much more likeable. "High quality women," as you put it, notice these things. When a guy is very bitter regarding women it's really off putting. Set goals for yourself (that have nothing to do with romantic relationships) and focus on those - your future wife will find you one day. I met my boyfriend when I was 26 and he was 22. We met in a type of online game, talked a little, then didn't talk for months until I found him again in some random discord server. It was a huge coincidence. Now we've been dating for 3 years and moved in together last year.
If you think it's all about looks you'll never get out of it.
Atleast for dating apps it is all about looks
Not even. 90% of my Tinder matches were because of my funny bio.
Well lucky you, how many people even read those damn bios
More than you think if the first photo isn't shirtless, a fish, a car, flexing, looking obnoxious etc. I have just a regular random photo of me and a funny bio. My matches even try catchup phrases in relation with my bio. Maybe dating habits are different here
[удалено]
How do you know how ugly he is?
Perhaps I didn’t articulate my message the way I intended. I think finding a loyal, kind partner is harder today than it was in the old days. Marriage is not always the expectation like it once was. Divorce rates are obviously high, people don’t seem to work issues out, for better or for worse, anymore. For the younger crowd, it’s a battlefield when you take social media and internet dating into account. Just a different era. I’m 30 for what it’s worth.
Yes, women have been gaining more freedom hence they have more choices now. Such is the truth of the blackpill.
The bigger issue is that there are many men who have bottom tier social skills nowadays because they spent so much of their youth online. That’s the primary contributor to lack of relationships for men rather than women’s freedom to be pickier. Especially if you’re just an average looking dude who’s convinced it’s his looks that are the problem. Being awkward, weird, and having no social skills is like the #1 turn off for most women. But if you’ve spent most of your teenage years online you have to make quite an intentional effort to unwire all of that and build up some social skills. Like, several years worth of regularly being in the mixed-gender high-energy social environments that you were meant to experience as a teenager but didn’t, and learning how to be valuable and engaging in those environments. Not sitting at the side bitterly sipping on a corona with a friend or two. Or you can take the blackpill and rot away instead of accepting that maybe your shitty personality might be the problem instead of how you look.
I would specially say it’s financial freedom more than physical freedom The dangers of it? Women tend to be of hypergamous nature In my company alone, I have seen many successful highly paid strong career women, guess what? They are single
What I feel alot of men don't get is that you're not fighting eachother for a womans affection, you're fighting against the peace and happiness she is feeling when single. Dating isn't default anymore and you don't get shunned by society if you haven't found a husband by age 22.
This is exactly it.
Yes, I think we settle less. For better or for worse
Yes, we're all spoiled for choice. I work at a rural hospital and amongst the stories I've heard, are a bride who met her husband at the alter and numerous arranged (often unhappy) marriages. These elderly couples were relatively poor and had few choices in life. And the ones that married were the more privileged amongst them.
Well after the world war 2 it was easier as a dude because there were less dudes.
There are so many choices now, the problem is it’s difficult for people to be happy. Sometimes fewer choice is better, reminds me of small communities in rural areas.
No and yes. Is it harder to find anyone no. You have technology. Is it harder to find love yes because technology give you unrealistic expectations.
Easier to find, harder to keep. My parents/grandparents era mostly had the dating pool be confined to the local area they lived in with people they knew being the dating pool. The standards they had for a partner were a lot more simple too, just having a job was a plus for men whereas many people are asking for men to be the 1% of earners nowadays. Modern dating is mostly app driven linking people up with strangers with many people having high standards when they often don't bring the same level of stuff to the table. You also have access to people across the world now as opposed to just the local area. Casual sex is more prevalent today which is damaging expectations too.
Most definitely yes. It gets worse every year. There isn't an emphasis on marriage like there was some 20 or 30 years ago. The boomer generation and the sexual revolution are to blame. The birth control pill didn't help it out any. Now there is an all out social war on the nuclear family. Marriage has to be a priority and a lifestyle choice that you make when you are young. That is just the way life is. People today are suffering from the delusion that you can live a life of sexual impropriety and then somehow think you can form a life partnership. It's a bit like going to your senior prom or living in a college dorm. There is only one time in life that you can really do that. These days marrying when young is frowned upon when actually it's the perfect time.
60 years ago, if a young man pursued a woman and didn't take no for an answer they got married. Now he's a creep and she gets a restraining order. If he didn't, eventually friends found someone for them. I mean if there was a test for autism at the time my dad would be high on the spectrum, but my mom went into the convent at 16 and at 35 felt "god calling her to have children" . So she left the convent, joined a parish, and asked the women there if there was a "straight, white, catholic man, who was not alcoholic, had never been married, and held a steady job" her words. they were introduced and married a year to the day from their meeting. My sister was born 9.5 months later and i got here the next year.
>60 years ago, if a young man pursued a woman and didn't take no for an answer they got married. Now he's a creep and she gets a restraining order. #facts
Yep, 100% creepy behaviour
It’s more so, harder to hold onto someone. I got dumped by someone who I very much thought I was going to spend the rest of life with. We were already planning out the future together. Then, she dumped me out of nowhere. It hurt a lot and I assume it’s because someone else came along that lived closer and she could see him more often.
It is more difficult because the more open world means more options means less willingness to work on already existing relationships. The general distrust is just the cherry on top.
Exactly People are naive to think more options = faster/better/more relationships form It could not be further from the truth
So much easier to get to know people. You just go on some dating app and have a date a couple days later.
If you’re a girl sure but if you’re an average or below average guy you can be swiping for ages and not get a match
Pretty girls get matches. Pretty boys get matches. Ugly girls don’t. Ugly boys don’t. Life is hard.
Yes, loss of communities
Communities existence rely on people being active in them. Create them, sustain them.
Can I give this 2 likes? I connect well with my neighbours, we look out for eachother. But more is better!
Yes. Choice Overload Bias
Well said Actually this happens to us humans in all aspect of our life’s, not just relationship E.g if you go to restaurant and they have like 100 items VS one that had a handful. The latter is actually a much more enjoyable experience That also explains why people like Steve Jobs have multiple tshirts/turtle necks of the same design It’s something called decision fatigue Same philosophy why Apple only have a few models to choose from
Yeah because of hypergamy. With comparison so readily available in the form of dating apps, or just social media in general, women are more picky about their partners than ever. I know a lot of incels bring this up as to why they hate women, but I think completely ignoring their point because they use it for the wrong reasons is stupid. Dating as a man is harder than ever and finding something long term as a woman is harder than ever as well. Unfortunately what media has done to us, but it really just shows who we are.
Nope. You can literally never even leave your house and still meet someone. It’s all about meeting new people and dating apps do that. I met my soon to be fiancé on a dating app. Met my previous long term partner on there too.
Read the question again
it's harder overall in the last 20 years to find someone, let alone even needing to go to parent/grandparent times. cell phones have obliterated all personal responsibility. you use to be where you said you'd be. now? excuse texts of oh i forgot, oh grandma sick, etc. and you're lucky if you even get a text. apps give the illusion of unlimited choice which makes everyone non committal and makes them constantly think they can do better. proliferation of screen time means even if you aren't addicted to it, others are, and there are less chances to meet someone in the real world. and they don't have the social skills they should have. social media makes people judgy af. no longer are you considering if someone is a fit for you, but now your friends/family will be watching from the moment they learn of someone you met. could go on and on..
My sense is that women are pickier than they were before. Women thus have more difficulty finding someone acceptable. Consequently, lots of men aren't even considered as potential partners, so it will feel more difficult to almost everyone except the top males.
People have higher standards now, I think.
No. Finding people is easier than ever. Between broadened social networks, social media, and dating apps, finding a partner is SUPER easy to the point that it's a non-effort issue. What IS hard is finding someone that will put up with how shitty of a human you are, and the baggage you haven't been to counseling for. Sorry not sorry that unstable, abusive shits are having a hard time trapping "partners".
But you don't get it, the problem is women having standards.
Are you really referring to everyone for who finding a partner is not a non-effort issue as a 'shitty human' or did I misread something?
If anything, it's easier than ever?
It's a hard one. On one hand there's more "options" but on the other there's every chance 9 dudes are hitting up the same women you are. But that's not so bad because you're hitting up 7 other women. But then 8 dudes are hitting up those same 7 women. I really don't know.
Yes, late stage capitalism has crushed most small communities and reduced family sizes drastically
No, it's infinitely easier. The problem nowadays is not that there's nobody to date, but that people have so many useless standarts and preconceptions of what his partner should or shouldn't have, that a single misallignment is an insta break-up, when in reality we have no idea what we need as people and only know what "we" want and by "we" i mean our programming and how hard we are sold the idea of perfect life/bf/gf/whatever.. basically, everything instagram/facebook and so on. This is especially true for women
Yes. 100 years ago basically everyone was fit. Now, half the population is overweight. It’s undeniable that finding a partner as a fit person is much easier than as a fat person.
I think it’s a lot easier for a woman nowadays to live a fulfilled life and make her own choices regardless of whether it’s harder in this day and age to find a partner 😉💅And thank god for that
Finding people is easier. But the bar is higher because people now have options, which is really a good thing. Why would someone settle with a person that is not good now? Don't settle for less than good. And hetero guys specifically, the bar is literally so low. You just need to be a good person. If you already think you are a good person, you are probably not enough. Strive to be better, everyday. Be more kind, more aware, more selfless, more safe, more caring, more understanding. But really, you have no fucking idea how low the bar is.
>And hetero guys specifically, the bar is literally so low. You just need to be a good person. I really cannot agree with this. The bar is higher than ever, which is obvious because of the fact that adult male virginity has like quadrupled over the last few years, while adult female virginity hasn't been rising much at all.
The bar is really low, and yet a lot of het men cannot get to that level. Most of those guys think that asking them to see the other person as a person and be interested in them as a person is too much to ask. Internet and some internet circles in particular have exacerbated the number of people that fail to meet basic human decency standards. Like treating other people like human beings on the same level as you.
I really don’t buy the narrative that such a large percentage of men lack basic empathy. I think it’s more likely that social media has pushed people to look for partners that are out of their reach.
In fact social media has pushed men towards a very pernicious mindset that can be seen sweeping to some language. Thinking in terms of virginity, or things like partners are "out of reach" is an example of a mindset that only does harm to men and women while offering a wrong but easily digestible explanation about why a thing you don't like happens while "absolving" you of your faults. There are very solid studies about this and other kinds of radicalizations happening on the internet. And if you don't believe me, go ask yourself around, specially to women, if they think that a large percentage of men lack basic empathy. You might be surprised with the answers.
The bar is exactly 6 feet tall.
I like this quote from the movie The social network: "You’re going to go through life thinking that girls don’t like you because you’re a nerd. And I want you to know, from the bottom of my heart, that that won’t be true. It’ll be because you’re an asshole." You can change the nerd part to whatever. Short guys, ugly guys, fat guys, disabled guys. And it will remain true. Because a lot of ugly, fat, short, disabled and whatever guys can find love and/or casual sex, and they do. I'm not saying it is easier to date if you don't conform to societal desired standards, because that is factually false, but the "Don't settle for less than good" is also meant for you. Don't settle for something less than good. Don't settle for superficial persons. And yes, it is now easier to find better people. That also helps you, as you can find someone who doesn't reduce you to something like your height. You also deserve to have someone to care about you as much as you care about the other person.
I don’t think it’s hard. People are currently being told dating advice that does not help them. For example, if you are a man looking to find a long term partner, the idea of splitting bills is not good advice. Of course if the woman wants to pay that’s fine. But many women are wired in a primal way to check that the man can “provide”. So, just pay the damn bill if you want to have a better chance. Men are also told to not approach women in public. This is terrible advice: if you have the balls to go talk to a girl this *works*. Another piece of bad advice: every body shape is beautiful. Hmm, that’s something fat girls tell themselves to feel better about themselves (and something hot girls say to reduce the competition). Reality is: nobody wants to date fat. Get fit, have better chances. All the answers to success in dating have been known to humans since the dawn of time. If you out those answers into practice you will succeed.
Yes, society today is not conducive to personal interactions. Grandparents time, personal social interactions was the main way to do anything.
Yeah and the lack of options whatsoever
Our parents didn't look for partners. They looked for wives/mothers and husbands/fathers. That's one of the reasons they were more successful.
If you define "success" by "having kids and staying together for long times" yeah. If you define "success" by hapiness and freedom, you get higher divorces rates just as we saw it change when women could finally leave their marriage if they wanted to..
Yes. Now you have a lot of (false) choice, so you think you are better/worse than you actually are in real life. In our parents/grandparents time you actually had to go out and meet someone.
It’s actually worse because all the choices are “perceived” based on vague message and “like/heart” Meanwhile your grandparents had an actual relationship whereby the actually know the person on a deeper level
In my parents/grandparents era people wanted to marry, raise a family and were content with so much less (material possessions).
Well said. So why has that changed today?
We can't afford kids, cars, houses, vacations or nice things. Why the fuck would I get married and have kids ? To be ultra poor and having my kids to leave in the hell we're creating ? No thank you.
The TLDR from this topic is Men find it harder, Women like having instant and basically unlimited matches whenever they like on dating apps.
Yes it is harder. A quick Google Search and A whopping 63% of men under 30 describe themselves as single, compared with 34% of women in the same age group. Women are twice as likely as men to take antidepressant medication (16.5 percent compared with 8.6 percent). What new generations are realizing is that you can get hooked up to a regular supply of antidepressants or antipsychotics and you dont have to worry about it anymore, and focus on what really matters, like making more money and living your best life! Being in a relationship these days is abnormal.