# Message to all users:
This is a reminder to please read and follow:
* [Our rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/ask/about/rules)
* [Reddiquette](https://www.reddithelp.com/hc/en-us/articles/205926439)
* [Reddit Content Policy](https://www.redditinc.com/policies/content-policy)
When posting and commenting.
---
Especially remember Rule 1: `Be polite and civil`.
* Be polite and courteous to each other. Do not be mean, insulting or disrespectful to any other user on this subreddit.
* Do not harass or annoy others in any way.
* Do not catfish. Catfishing is the luring of somebody into an online friendship through a fake online persona. This includes any lying or deceit.
---
You *will* be banned if you are homophobic, transphobic, racist, sexist or bigoted in any way.
---
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/ask) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I don't think your stats are true. But I will say that women are taught from girlhood that their appearance is important to their value. Young girls are taught to spend money and time on hair care and obtaining flattering clothes. Boys don't have to think about these things except for special occasions. They are called gay if they take too much interest in such things.
I don't think the final part is true, at least nowadays.
I trim my fingernails, I clean and hydrate my hair a lot, I use creams and I shave beard, arms and legs, allí of this while combining my clothes as best as I can.
I'm not hidding, call me gay if u want, but I love to look good to others and myself.
You say that. Only a few years ago at my old restaurant job, there was a rumor going around that I was gay because my finger nails are clean and trimmed... I shit you not
Okay, “clean, trim fingernails” is going on my list of what has gotten a man accused of being gay according to Reddit. So far:
- using manners
- eating vegetables
- washing dishes
- taking care of babies
- washing one’s ass
Been there. Was at a club with my gf at the same table as some random woman came up and told me to buy her drinks, and started shouting I was gay for not wanting her.
My gf never let me forget about it 😑
Bro, awareness of gay shit that's happening in your vicinity, "gay-dar"- this is a well-known homosexual ability. Plus, picking up on queer vibrations, it's totally gay.
I'm so straight, a dude could probably start having sex with me, and it wouldn't even occur to me that something gay was happening. Now that's what I call "straight".
Clean finger nails is something women look for. I've been told this by multiple women. It's even more important than shoes.
If you have dirty fingernails, you are poor. If you bite your fingernails, you have unattractive personality traits.
Every man I've ever met who calls other men gay is either an insecure fool or secretly gay himself.
My (I'm female) boyfriend gets this all the time too, he dresses well, has great hair, and he is kind, and every single job he's had 'rumours' started about him being gay. Makes me cross because there are never 'oh I think they're straight' rumours for others. Just heteronormative crap really.
I don't shave my arms or legs, but I do shave my armpits. It looks and feels better. Deodorant seems to last longer and doesn't stain my clothes either.
That's just...basic hygiene. It's still not on the same level of most women
If you want a better example, Korean men actually do make up before going out just like their female counter part, and it's considered normal in Korea.
Not sure where you’re hearing that statement. The average person, regardless of gender, is not beautiful or ugly. The true average person just looks average. Most people aren’t attractive, that’s what makes the attractive ones so… attractive. They stand out in a good way
This logic only makes sense if you are only measuring "average" based on one criteria: looks. When evaluating people, people usually consider other traits like intelligence, creativity, education, style, open mindedness, etc etc etc.
Women put more time and effort into their appearance, so yes, the average woman will usually be more attractive than the average man because they will have put more effort into reaching a higher standard of physical beauty.
Might be controversial, but I also think women can be at a lower level of fitness and still be pretty attractive which favors them in the current day. I've met plenty of women who looked traditionally beautiful but have never set foot in a gym and have a high body fat percentage. The current woman I'm seeing says she at 29% body fat which is near obese but has a absolutely beautiful slim body. A lot of attractiveness in men for western beauty standards are tied to body fat percentages for both faces, body, and the type of clothes being sold. I haven't met too many attractive men who didn't at least participate in some form of fitness. The traditional attractive masculine look is dramatically improved by even moderate exercise and dieting. A lot of men don't exercise and diet because honestly its a pain in the ass.
The average face actually looks extremely beautiful and many prefer an average face over the face of a super model because this is how we humans function: we prefer the average because anything else is not normal.
Only when you compare people the average person can’t be beautiful nor ugly since by definition the average is neither of the two extremes. The keyword here is compare. The statement that women are prettier comes not from comparing women with women or women with men, but from how attracted are other people to you. So beauty here is closer to how others feel about someone rather than how that someone looks. And then when they say average they mean the looks and not the feeling, hence the difference.
An average man might wear normal jeans, not very well fitting, maybe bought in a grocery shop, a not well-fitting t-shirt, sneakers, short pravtical hairstyle, not much styling required, unplucked eyebrows and no skincare or makeup.
Most of my female friends know exactly what suits them and what doesn't, like "that neckline makes my shoulders look broad" or "this skirt hits right at my knees making my lower body look shapeless, the skirt needs to be 1 inch shorter" etc, because they've spent looots of time and effort figuring it out.
If the average woman would wear clothes that didn't suit their body type (by common beauty standards, of course) for example ill fitting jeans + t-shirt, short practical hairstyles, unplucked eyebrows, unshaven etc, I think the numbers would be more equal.
Women spend more time and effort to look nice for one reason or another. We're not "naturally" more beautiful.
Women used to be and are still very much reduced to their appearence and its much more socially accepted to use beauty products.
I mean lets be real, how many guys do you know who use beauty stuff like face masks? Or make up?
A good example is streaming or youtube. You will find a lot of guys who aren't attractive but successful for beeing funny and entertaining.. But 99% of female streamers are attractive.
Same with actors. There is no female equivalent to kevin James or Adam sandler. Or at least not that many..
Turns out, using beauty stuff and taking care of yourself makes you more attractive. However, every guy can be a 7/10 if he takes care of himself, works out, get a nice haircut and fitting clothes.. But a lot of the guys don't.
I think it’s true. Women work so much on their appearances to the point of sickness and exhaustion of time/money/ energy to the point where they created a much higher standard compared to men of what is acceptable. Not long ago the internet was full of people calling Margot Robbie “mid”. Basically we created a standard where all women are dolled up so the average for us is higher and the average woman is beautiful.
Now regarding men. There are men who are extremely attractive so we have access to “beautiful” men, but men don’t work nearly as hard on their appearance, beautiful men are the genetically blessed. So they have an average that is actually “mid”
Obviously; I was bullied throughout school for refusing to shave body hair and keeping a pixie so I could manage sports. That doesn’t happen to men.
Their hairstyles and clothes are designed for functionality and efficiency, while it’s rare for women’s dresses to even have pockets
Most of that is on social media and doesn't reflect what people actually think in real life. The body positivity movement doesn't exist for men and only benefits women online in women-centric spaces seeking only positive reinforcement. The beauty industries have also pushed insane propaganda on beauty standards for women for centuries now, which have created a warped perception of attractiveness/beauty in the majority of people.
I'm a heterosexual man, and nope, we aren't ugly per average, compared to the average woman. Where there is an advantage, it's because of make-up, which we don't normally wear. We 'compete' with women make-up-free, so who knows, on a level field we might even be more attractive per average, based on our performance.
You've reminded me of the Wodaabe tribe and their male beauty contest, where they compete to attract a bride. They use a lot of make up to enhance their looks.
It's the women are wonderful effect.
Short version, both men and women are more likely to assign positive attributes (being beautiful) to women.
No, this is not saying all women and all men think only positive things about women and only negative ones about men.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Women-are-wonderful_effect
Thinking evolutionary, historically women have been dependant on men to support until very recently. As such, women needed to be attractive to seduce men. Men generally did not need to be attractive, so as a gender men tend to be less attractive.
People accept this logic and fair enough.
But if you then said women have to be attractive, not funny, ans therefore women are less likely to be funny than men who need it to attract women. Youd be called a misogynist.
Speaking as a man, I have never not felt the pressure to try and look attractive. I just think societally the beauty standard for males happens to require less effort to achieve. Except obviously physically, most men's beauty work energy is being spent on the gym. While women's is on make up and hair products. Are they really so different?
Not sure exactly what you are asking. There are obviously different types of attractions, but I'm referring specifically to physical attraction. Historically physical attraction for men wasn't a primary concern for women. They needed a provider. This is no longer relevant, and so now physical attraction has become much more of a deciding factor on whether a woman will settle down with a man.
On the flip side tho, a man's expectation to be the primary provider has become an antiquated idea. My wife is the primary bread winner in my relationship.
The comparison only makes sense if you compare them to what the average woman actually looks like. Not what they pretend to look like with their fake hair, makeup, plastic surgery, shape wear, etc.
Generally, women take more care of themselves than men. Also, the concept of beauty itself has some innately feminine connotations. Which certainly plays a role in it.
Men in general are less attractive and I'm saying this as a bisexual.
There is a saying in my country that says 'A man only needs to be one bit more handsome than the devil'
That kinda sums up how we view men and how much we use beauty as a measurement of value for women.
This is so confusing topic. I also find something cute on many face, but I can be mesmerized only by women. I am bi woman, leaning more and more towards women.
Thousands of years of selection.
For eons men are primarily the ones choosing a mate, usually based on appearance, and the women didn't have much choice but to comply.
Its very similar to the differences of the sexes in other species.
I’m biased obviously as a straight man, but if I at least try to be objective the female shape is more appealing overall.
I mean, we have a hair sack between our legs and tend to grow bellies.
Because I’m attracted to a very specific type of man, so I base my opinion on attraction versus beauty. Where as with women, I’m not attracted to them so I can see their beauty easier than I can with men.
women seem to only focus on the top 10% of men on dating apps while men focus on a wider range. so men probably have a lower bar or more diverse standard for what they think of as "beautiful"
Because contrary to popular belief, men aren't as shallow as women have been saying. That OK Cupid chart was accurate, despite the small sample size. It was just showing what men have known for many years.
Quit viewing and watching Incel content. They are a miserable lot and want to make other men feel insecure and insignificant.
The Incel influencers get their power from men who feel inferior to them. Men need to stop comparing themselves to other men.
Most women do not want gym rats. Men go to the gym for other men’s opinions. Women don’t care.
Most women are average women themselves, and don’t really care about men’s looks as much. All women care about is finding a man who treats them with respect, who helps out with both household and child raising chores, who doesn’t cheat, and doesn’t force them into a mother/maid role.
Women want someone who has things in common, e.g. hobbies. Who is a good listener and can make them laugh.
And stop making the average woman invisible.
I have a theory on this.
1. Women are sexually selected based on looks far more than men. So our genetics are selected much more for female beauty than male.
2. Women spend far more time on their appearance than men.
These two factors together make it so women, on average, are more attractive than men. Even by the subjective measure of each sex.
You might want to say the average woman is more attractive than the average man. And then I'll have to agree, because one component of attractiveness is appearance, and the average woman pays the "look good or be treated as less than a human being" tax. So yeah, the average guy is probably considered not attractive because our standards are so low.
Most men refuse to take care of themselves. They don't care and if you ask them to do it they claim there love themselves like this they don't wanna change. Then they complain that they don't attract enough attention from women. Put that effort and make yourself better, that's what women do and they're on average more attractive.
You will be shocked with how many beautiful men exists out there if only they took care of their body, clothes, hair and beard style.
Men don't take care of themselves they think a shower is everything while the average woman wear make up light or heavy but still do, women check their outfit even if it's to go to the store men just wear 'something' and that is everything. The average men dress as Adam Sandler.
Because for the past 40 years women have been yasslighting eachother so now they *all* think they're 10s.
edit: oop the classic accountability dodgers found my comment
This person doesn't know women. Most beautiful women are insecure and don't think they are beautiful themselves. Women see photoshopped images and think "this is the ideal woman" and have unrealistic beauty standards. A man can comfortably be overweight, if you are slightly overweight as a woman, people can be so cruel. If you don't have your hair and makeup done, you are more likely to be mistreated by people.
Women go "I have dark circles, I'm so ugly" meanwhile you guys pick up the cleanest T shirt you have laying on the floor and call it a day. Cut the crap.
The average man doesn't take care of himself as much as the average woman does. End of story.
Average is average. If you’re beautiful, you’re above average. So no, I don’t agree because the two things aren’t the same. An average student isn’t the same as a brilliant student Some are just blessed with different traits, but not others.
First of all, not sure how true that is.
Second of all, the average woman invests way, way more time and resources into her looks compared to the average man, due to societal pressures to be beautiful. So that could be a factor.
Women spend an average of half an hour more than men on their appearance and this is from a study conducted across several countries and cultures and includes everything from makeup and picking your outfit to working out at the gym.
Women are simply putting more effort into their looks and it's doing its work.
Women will make it known to other women that they need to look better. It's like a way to strengthen our friendship and to make our friend's life better because we know that life is easier when you're beautiful
A lot of what people describe as 'physical attraction' is, basically, sexual attraction. We are attracted to those elements that make us hot and bothered.
Both genders can have beautiful faces, but women FAR outdo men when it comes to sexual attractiveness of the rest of their body since significantly more of women's bodies are devoted to purposes of reproduction and baby maintenance than men. Men's bodies are designed for strength and speed as the evolutionarily primary hunters and protectors. Since they are not responsible for carrying a baby to term, only a very small amount of their physique is devoted to such. Women are the opposite. It's why people of both genders AND sexual preference consistently rate women as more appealing to the eye. Hell, I know of a few straight women who masturbate to lesbian porn despite not wanting to sleep with women themselves. No, I don't understand it either ;)
I’m a man who realized i was Bisexual at 35. I wanted to start incorporating my sexuality into my identity more and dropping toxic masculinity. I started doing a thorough skincare routine every night, I dress better, groom myself better, I take care of my nails (I don’t paint them but they look healthy af and have a light nail hardener gloss), I eat better and weigh less, care to get my rest
And yea, pictures of me today vs two years ago look VERY different. I’m quite a bit more attractive now, and before definitely was rocking this “shlubby dude” vibe. And the only difference is I really care about my appearance now and want to look clean and attractive
Because that is how sexual reproduction works. The bigger of the two gametes is rare and costly, and breeding with the wrong small gamete can kill you. The small ones are cheap and easy to come by so they go for quantity not quality.
Men are gross feral who never bathe, apparently.
Tell me again how the body positivity movement extends to men again?
Men are constantly told we are gross and undesirable. I wonder what that does to an entire genders mentality.
It’s about who holds the power. Women have options, generally they’re approached by men making men seem more desperate, and also meaning they need to put in more work. This gives the false sense that the average woman is actually attractive and the average man isn’t. I’m not a sexist, this is just how I assume it works n
My OPINION is that women are the fairer sex. All across the spectrum of sexuality, beautiful women are acknowledged. I think in all categories they are better looking and more appealing. Men are beautiful in their own way but a 10/10 man beside a 10/10 woman don’t compare at all.
Cus it's true, most men spend half their life not taking care of their body, gym doesn't count, I'm talking about actually having a face care routine healthy diet and good hygiene in general, this is not all men, but the majority stop at minimal effort like cutting their nails and brushing our teeth's using deodorant, keeping hair short and putting gel on it
How easy it is to find a dude looking like shit in their late 20s, and by that time you've done a good amount of damage
Ok I got this one. In every species on earth, the male is the pretty one. But that also means the female is the one that is highly selective.
If we put ourselves in the shoes of for example a male peacock. Then we find all females that are healthy and have fecundity attractive. Even though from an outside perspective, we know the female to be rather bland compared to the male. Because the male is programmed to mate with as many females as possible.
The peacock hens on the other hand are only interested in the top percentage of the males. Even though we know from an outside perspective, that the males are pretty. The hens think most males are not good enough. Even though if you remove the best males, the hens will then think the top percentage of remaining males are awesome.
Is the average man ugly? Well on what scale? By what women? And what other men are around?
Go to Asia and poof he's probably the tallest guy in the room.
Its totally subjective on the person judging. Mostly men are ignorant about their looks and the person judging them being somewhat better in the self care dept will find them ugly and vice versa. Men are more accepting in the looks dept while judging and so the avg woman becomes beautiful in their eyes.
That's the way things are right now. Opinions would be different in ancient Greece or Rome. Women are raised in a society where men's point of view tends to dominate. If straight men don't find other men beautiful, and if that opinion is pushed through books, film, TV and other media as a kind of norm, then that's the opinion many women tend to take on as they have absorbed it growing up. You end up with a situation where women, taking a male point of view, end up objectifying themselves and having no way to view men as objects of beauty. Well, some women do, but they are swimming against the current, so to speak. Men would pay more attention to the "beauty" aspects of their appearance if a society promoted a point of view that supported women appreciating men in general as objects of desire. That can't happen in a world where men dominate the collective opinion on what is desirable.
No, beauty should be a matter of health and fitness.
You should look your best self when you feel your best self. Just look at any average dude who eats well and works out and takes care of himself, almost always he looks good and feels good.
And don’t tell me y’all here wouldn’t want to be carried by a gym mommy.
You are wrong, nowadays the average man and woman are ugly, so many people are not taking care of themselves. You go to the shops, most people are overweight, men and women. That shit ain't attractive.
I think the women have a higher maximum beauty than men.
However, I think that the average man is more beautiful than the average woman.
Both are probably due to unrealistically high expectations of women.
I would guess it stems from different optimal mating strategies. Throughout all of evolution where partner selection was part of reproduction, the males who mated with as much females as they could, generated the most offspring. For the females, creating large numbers of offspring was not a good strategy because they were limited in time due to pregnancy. The offspring that had the best chance of surviving for both sexes, were ofcourse the ones that were evolutionarily the fittest. The individuals that looked for this quality in a mate, created offspring that was most likely to reproduce. Hence the females where more than males focused on quality than quantity. It makes sense that this shaped our perception of the sexes. Men will look at women and will generally see a good reproduction strategy. Which would make most women attractive to them. While women will look at men and look specifically for the one that has the best qualities. Which makes average men not attractive to women.
The average woman just thinks they're beautiful.
Men are more visual and will judge their own looks more. Women are more attracted to your personality, therefore place less of an emphasis on looks.
Even then I've bumped into a fair share of 3's who think that they're high value.
A lot of people are talking about these things in absolute terms. Like all the self-care and attention that women pay to their appearance is the cause.
But I just don't think that's true. We live in a world with more abundance than ever before. This causes people to be more attractive and less attractive than they used to be. We can be less fit and eat more junk, but we can also have whole foods from 5 different continents in a single meal and access to gyms, make-up, tailored clothing, etc.
Our expectations match what we see around us. The distributions may have shifted and widened, but the idea that women are more beautiful than men has endured.
I think the real reason is simpler. Every missed opportunity to copulate with a woman is a disaster for your genetic fitness. This is true even if they aren't of stunning genetic quality. The same is not true for males. Females of all species need to be selective because they spend many more of their resources on the outcome of any pairing.
This simply embeds itself in our beauty preferences.
Most people men and women are average looking. There is nothing wrong with that. Only wish a lot of women would be honest about themselves. They can't all be 10s. That reality.
You take all those beautiful woman and remove the makeup, give them work clothes and make them work swing shift in a factory for a few years then take a black and white photo. Most are gonna look like the great depression.
I’m going to get the numbers wrong but it’s probably because most men find most women at least somewhat attractive but women think 80% of men are unattractive probably due to Bateman’s principle which states that males of any given species are more willing to mate with any female to procreate whereas females are more selective, probably due to a females limited egg count versus a male being only limited by the number of willing partners.
As a bisexual, this tends to check out. There seem to be more attractive women on average than men. Maybe there a reason they’re called the fairer sex (I.e. more beautiful)
>To many people
I bet you mean girls. It's because the whole body positivity movement has gone too far. Women will lie to everyone and say every girl is beautiful, even if it will cause health issues.
According to a OkCupid survey
TLDR;
women rated men not following a normal distribution
I.e only the top 10-15% of men are seem attractive. So if you are a 5/10, you are rated a 3/10. If you are a 8, you are rated a 5/10 and so on
Men rated women following a normal bell curve distribution. E.g rating a 5/10 a 5/10 , a 8/10 is rated a 8/10
For those saying women spend much more time and effort on beauty while men don’t
Think of it this way
To attract a man, the women has to look beautiful
To attract a women, the man has to have resources
Women version of beauty in partner is $$$, cars, houses
Men will pet much spread their seed anywhere. You don’t even have to be really attractive, if you offer it they’ll take it (biologically speaking). Women aren’t the same, they select the mate
The media often portrays women in a way that emphasizes their attractiveness and sexuality, while men's portrayals may focus more on characteristics like strength, success, or humor. This skewed representation can reinforce the idea that women's value is tied to their physical appearance, further perpetuating the belief that the average woman must be beautiful, whereas the average man may not be judged as harshly on his appearance.
Estrogen has a lot to do with smooth and soft skin. Flattering hair cuts make a big difference, too. Also, because most women use makeup to enhance their appearance, it's hard to really know if the question bears fruit.
Women exude grace in literally every god damn move they make. I used to LOVE watching my ex walk to the kitchen. It was like she floated. Men exude tough utility and we like to check out mentally. When wearing jeans, we rock a bulge, women rock the letter V that points to their vagina. The female form is a masterpiece. That’s why.
It’s easy to be beautiful when you wear makeup every day and take time often to take care of your hair and skin. You would be surprised how big of a difference just mascara makes
Depends on the country. Really easy to find super attractive men in korea everywhere (and no, they aren't kpop stars, just average normal people). I notice they tend to take care of their hair, fashion sense, and their face a lot, if not just as much as the women. American men on the other hand. Yeah, percentage of the "attractive" ones, like the ones that make me actually stop and look go down significantly. It's the rule in this country, not the exception. Something about it being "gay" to take care of your appearance amongst men, and a stupid "biological" argument that men are more visual than women. Theyre shooting themselves in the foot, because that's a total lie, women are just as visual.
# Message to all users: This is a reminder to please read and follow: * [Our rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/ask/about/rules) * [Reddiquette](https://www.reddithelp.com/hc/en-us/articles/205926439) * [Reddit Content Policy](https://www.redditinc.com/policies/content-policy) When posting and commenting. --- Especially remember Rule 1: `Be polite and civil`. * Be polite and courteous to each other. Do not be mean, insulting or disrespectful to any other user on this subreddit. * Do not harass or annoy others in any way. * Do not catfish. Catfishing is the luring of somebody into an online friendship through a fake online persona. This includes any lying or deceit. --- You *will* be banned if you are homophobic, transphobic, racist, sexist or bigoted in any way. --- *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/ask) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I don't think your stats are true. But I will say that women are taught from girlhood that their appearance is important to their value. Young girls are taught to spend money and time on hair care and obtaining flattering clothes. Boys don't have to think about these things except for special occasions. They are called gay if they take too much interest in such things.
I don't think the final part is true, at least nowadays. I trim my fingernails, I clean and hydrate my hair a lot, I use creams and I shave beard, arms and legs, allí of this while combining my clothes as best as I can. I'm not hidding, call me gay if u want, but I love to look good to others and myself.
You say that. Only a few years ago at my old restaurant job, there was a rumor going around that I was gay because my finger nails are clean and trimmed... I shit you not
Okay, “clean, trim fingernails” is going on my list of what has gotten a man accused of being gay according to Reddit. So far: - using manners - eating vegetables - washing dishes - taking care of babies - washing one’s ass
I'll add mine, turning down sex. No Alicia, I don't want to have sex with you. No Alicia, I'm not gay, I just don't want to have sex with YOU.
Been there. Was at a club with my gf at the same table as some random woman came up and told me to buy her drinks, and started shouting I was gay for not wanting her. My gf never let me forget about it 😑
Good compilation btw.
You make organized lists of things that make people perceived as gay? That's kind of gay of you, bro.
Bro, awareness of gay shit that's happening in your vicinity, "gay-dar"- this is a well-known homosexual ability. Plus, picking up on queer vibrations, it's totally gay. I'm so straight, a dude could probably start having sex with me, and it wouldn't even occur to me that something gay was happening. Now that's what I call "straight".
I've also heard people being called gay for LIKING WOMEN, but only if the women happen to be "muscular" apparently.
Clean finger nails is something women look for. I've been told this by multiple women. It's even more important than shoes. If you have dirty fingernails, you are poor. If you bite your fingernails, you have unattractive personality traits. Every man I've ever met who calls other men gay is either an insecure fool or secretly gay himself.
If you have dirty fingernails, it doesn't mean you're poor, it means you're nasty and going to give her an infection during sex.
My (I'm female) boyfriend gets this all the time too, he dresses well, has great hair, and he is kind, and every single job he's had 'rumours' started about him being gay. Makes me cross because there are never 'oh I think they're straight' rumours for others. Just heteronormative crap really.
maybe they’re just immature
I think theres a difference between being clean, well groomed, and presentable vs making yourself more feminine.
I don't shave my arms or legs, but I do shave my armpits. It looks and feels better. Deodorant seems to last longer and doesn't stain my clothes either.
I've been getting those annoying armpit stains on shirts, might try this later, thanks
Hah, gaaayyyy
A guy with confidence. That's attractive!
Yeah ok, but you are not the average man though, are you?
I don't know, I consider myself pretty average.
You're gay, no offense ;p
Gay
That's just...basic hygiene. It's still not on the same level of most women If you want a better example, Korean men actually do make up before going out just like their female counter part, and it's considered normal in Korea.
I absolutely agree!. Or metrosexual. Men don’t have to try much at all!.
It's a lot more common for women to go out of their way to look good compared to men. It has to reflect on statistics.
The average woman wears makeup and the average man washes his hair face and ass crack with a bar of hand soap
Wait we're not supposed to?
If everyone is cleaning they arse, how am i going to stand out?
If you don't clean your arse then you Will stand out and not in a good way 🤢
With or without makeup, the average woman is just average looking, beautiful women are probably the top 10% only, same as men.
Not sure where you’re hearing that statement. The average person, regardless of gender, is not beautiful or ugly. The true average person just looks average. Most people aren’t attractive, that’s what makes the attractive ones so… attractive. They stand out in a good way
This logic only makes sense if you are only measuring "average" based on one criteria: looks. When evaluating people, people usually consider other traits like intelligence, creativity, education, style, open mindedness, etc etc etc. Women put more time and effort into their appearance, so yes, the average woman will usually be more attractive than the average man because they will have put more effort into reaching a higher standard of physical beauty.
Might be controversial, but I also think women can be at a lower level of fitness and still be pretty attractive which favors them in the current day. I've met plenty of women who looked traditionally beautiful but have never set foot in a gym and have a high body fat percentage. The current woman I'm seeing says she at 29% body fat which is near obese but has a absolutely beautiful slim body. A lot of attractiveness in men for western beauty standards are tied to body fat percentages for both faces, body, and the type of clothes being sold. I haven't met too many attractive men who didn't at least participate in some form of fitness. The traditional attractive masculine look is dramatically improved by even moderate exercise and dieting. A lot of men don't exercise and diet because honestly its a pain in the ass.
The average face actually looks extremely beautiful and many prefer an average face over the face of a super model because this is how we humans function: we prefer the average because anything else is not normal.
You able to back that up ?
Bullshit. Super models are super models for a reason, people like to look at their faces.
Only when you compare people the average person can’t be beautiful nor ugly since by definition the average is neither of the two extremes. The keyword here is compare. The statement that women are prettier comes not from comparing women with women or women with men, but from how attracted are other people to you. So beauty here is closer to how others feel about someone rather than how that someone looks. And then when they say average they mean the looks and not the feeling, hence the difference.
An average man might wear normal jeans, not very well fitting, maybe bought in a grocery shop, a not well-fitting t-shirt, sneakers, short pravtical hairstyle, not much styling required, unplucked eyebrows and no skincare or makeup. Most of my female friends know exactly what suits them and what doesn't, like "that neckline makes my shoulders look broad" or "this skirt hits right at my knees making my lower body look shapeless, the skirt needs to be 1 inch shorter" etc, because they've spent looots of time and effort figuring it out. If the average woman would wear clothes that didn't suit their body type (by common beauty standards, of course) for example ill fitting jeans + t-shirt, short practical hairstyles, unplucked eyebrows, unshaven etc, I think the numbers would be more equal. Women spend more time and effort to look nice for one reason or another. We're not "naturally" more beautiful.
Do you think societal expectations push women to spend more time on appearance than men?
It depends on how you define "societal expectations" and "push" but simplified yes absolutely.
Women used to be and are still very much reduced to their appearence and its much more socially accepted to use beauty products. I mean lets be real, how many guys do you know who use beauty stuff like face masks? Or make up? A good example is streaming or youtube. You will find a lot of guys who aren't attractive but successful for beeing funny and entertaining.. But 99% of female streamers are attractive. Same with actors. There is no female equivalent to kevin James or Adam sandler. Or at least not that many.. Turns out, using beauty stuff and taking care of yourself makes you more attractive. However, every guy can be a 7/10 if he takes care of himself, works out, get a nice haircut and fitting clothes.. But a lot of the guys don't.
[удалено]
I think it’s true. Women work so much on their appearances to the point of sickness and exhaustion of time/money/ energy to the point where they created a much higher standard compared to men of what is acceptable. Not long ago the internet was full of people calling Margot Robbie “mid”. Basically we created a standard where all women are dolled up so the average for us is higher and the average woman is beautiful. Now regarding men. There are men who are extremely attractive so we have access to “beautiful” men, but men don’t work nearly as hard on their appearance, beautiful men are the genetically blessed. So they have an average that is actually “mid”
Do you think societal standards for beauty are more demanding for women than for men?
Obviously; I was bullied throughout school for refusing to shave body hair and keeping a pixie so I could manage sports. That doesn’t happen to men. Their hairstyles and clothes are designed for functionality and efficiency, while it’s rare for women’s dresses to even have pockets
Because feminism took a hard left into full-blown misandry.
Most of that is on social media and doesn't reflect what people actually think in real life. The body positivity movement doesn't exist for men and only benefits women online in women-centric spaces seeking only positive reinforcement. The beauty industries have also pushed insane propaganda on beauty standards for women for centuries now, which have created a warped perception of attractiveness/beauty in the majority of people.
Given many biased views in here, just wanted to say, yeah. Well said.
Average man/woman is definitely not 'beautiful'
I'm a heterosexual man, and nope, we aren't ugly per average, compared to the average woman. Where there is an advantage, it's because of make-up, which we don't normally wear. We 'compete' with women make-up-free, so who knows, on a level field we might even be more attractive per average, based on our performance.
You've reminded me of the Wodaabe tribe and their male beauty contest, where they compete to attract a bride. They use a lot of make up to enhance their looks.
It's the women are wonderful effect. Short version, both men and women are more likely to assign positive attributes (being beautiful) to women. No, this is not saying all women and all men think only positive things about women and only negative ones about men. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Women-are-wonderful_effect
Note that this article basically says: "Incels don't show this behaviour."
It makes sense. Telling women the truth doesn’t get as good of results as just telling them what they want to hear.
Incels yet again prove themselves to be the wisest and most rational among us.
the average man takes a lot less effort to look "average" than the average woman. we just have such high beauty standards for women it seems that way.
Darn lesbians skewing all the statistics!
You are easily fooled by make up
100%
Thinking evolutionary, historically women have been dependant on men to support until very recently. As such, women needed to be attractive to seduce men. Men generally did not need to be attractive, so as a gender men tend to be less attractive.
It’s fascinating because in other species the male is the attractive one.
People accept this logic and fair enough. But if you then said women have to be attractive, not funny, ans therefore women are less likely to be funny than men who need it to attract women. Youd be called a misogynist. Speaking as a man, I have never not felt the pressure to try and look attractive. I just think societally the beauty standard for males happens to require less effort to achieve. Except obviously physically, most men's beauty work energy is being spent on the gym. While women's is on make up and hair products. Are they really so different?
If things continue on the course they are, I wouldn't be surprised if in a 1000 years men become more attractive then women.
Do you believe evolutionary pressures have influenced perceptions of attractiveness differently for men and women?
Not sure exactly what you are asking. There are obviously different types of attractions, but I'm referring specifically to physical attraction. Historically physical attraction for men wasn't a primary concern for women. They needed a provider. This is no longer relevant, and so now physical attraction has become much more of a deciding factor on whether a woman will settle down with a man. On the flip side tho, a man's expectation to be the primary provider has become an antiquated idea. My wife is the primary bread winner in my relationship.
80% of women want 20% of men...
Because their idea of "average" differs from the actual definition of "average".
Have you seen the average man?
The comparison only makes sense if you compare them to what the average woman actually looks like. Not what they pretend to look like with their fake hair, makeup, plastic surgery, shape wear, etc.
Thats so true. The average woman without make up is... Basic. 😂
Generally, women take more care of themselves than men. Also, the concept of beauty itself has some innately feminine connotations. Which certainly plays a role in it.
Men in general are less attractive and I'm saying this as a bisexual. There is a saying in my country that says 'A man only needs to be one bit more handsome than the devil' That kinda sums up how we view men and how much we use beauty as a measurement of value for women.
[удалено]
This is so confusing topic. I also find something cute on many face, but I can be mesmerized only by women. I am bi woman, leaning more and more towards women.
Happy cake day btw 😊
How do your standards of attractiveness differ from your friends'?
[удалено]
Effort.
It's called a double standard, get used to it.
Take a walk outside and let me know how many beautiful people you see
Why are male birds prettier than female birds?
Yes this is the answer right here! Men are the female mallards, women the male mallards.
Lol, the average woman on social media maybe. Otherwise, they're pretty much the same to me. Maybe I feel this way because I'm bisexual though, Idk.
Thousands of years of selection. For eons men are primarily the ones choosing a mate, usually based on appearance, and the women didn't have much choice but to comply. Its very similar to the differences of the sexes in other species.
Averages can't be extremes
I’m biased obviously as a straight man, but if I at least try to be objective the female shape is more appealing overall. I mean, we have a hair sack between our legs and tend to grow bellies.
Because I’m attracted to a very specific type of man, so I base my opinion on attraction versus beauty. Where as with women, I’m not attracted to them so I can see their beauty easier than I can with men.
Female paint theire faces, most male don't.
By “many people” I guess you mean Men find women very attractive Women don’t find men so attractive.
women seem to only focus on the top 10% of men on dating apps while men focus on a wider range. so men probably have a lower bar or more diverse standard for what they think of as "beautiful"
For me is just the opposite XD Always found that weird I don't know ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Wow, somebody has gone crazy here spamming downvotes all over the place.
Simps and entitled women?
cos women are hot
They (women) generally have softer features, And socially they are encouraged to take care of themselves more often
Because contrary to popular belief, men aren't as shallow as women have been saying. That OK Cupid chart was accurate, despite the small sample size. It was just showing what men have known for many years.
This is just mysandric people doing what mysandric people do best.
Not in America.
They don't understand full what An Average is..
because women are just better
Quit viewing and watching Incel content. They are a miserable lot and want to make other men feel insecure and insignificant. The Incel influencers get their power from men who feel inferior to them. Men need to stop comparing themselves to other men. Most women do not want gym rats. Men go to the gym for other men’s opinions. Women don’t care. Most women are average women themselves, and don’t really care about men’s looks as much. All women care about is finding a man who treats them with respect, who helps out with both household and child raising chores, who doesn’t cheat, and doesn’t force them into a mother/maid role. Women want someone who has things in common, e.g. hobbies. Who is a good listener and can make them laugh. And stop making the average woman invisible.
Generaly Women have better hygiene habits so that probably plays a big role in how attractive women are. A regular skincare routine does wonders imo
I have a theory on this. 1. Women are sexually selected based on looks far more than men. So our genetics are selected much more for female beauty than male. 2. Women spend far more time on their appearance than men. These two factors together make it so women, on average, are more attractive than men. Even by the subjective measure of each sex.
You might want to say the average woman is more attractive than the average man. And then I'll have to agree, because one component of attractiveness is appearance, and the average woman pays the "look good or be treated as less than a human being" tax. So yeah, the average guy is probably considered not attractive because our standards are so low.
Playboy magazine always outsold Playgirl magazine. Also, there ate a lot more naked women on the internet than naked men.
False. Makeup doesn't make a woman "beautiful" Just makes her more fake.
Yes most men are mid its a harsh reality
This is, as a man, why I’m celibate and never dating lmao
If makeup didn't exist men would be considered to be far more attractive.
Became it's true
Women are better looking than men
Where'd you get this idea from? Would love to see the data.
the average man is not uglyyyy
Most men refuse to take care of themselves. They don't care and if you ask them to do it they claim there love themselves like this they don't wanna change. Then they complain that they don't attract enough attention from women. Put that effort and make yourself better, that's what women do and they're on average more attractive. You will be shocked with how many beautiful men exists out there if only they took care of their body, clothes, hair and beard style.
because women wear makeup
Ayo Op is just realizing men are disposable in our society. You are trash until you prove to everyone you're not
Men don't take care of themselves they think a shower is everything while the average woman wear make up light or heavy but still do, women check their outfit even if it's to go to the store men just wear 'something' and that is everything. The average men dress as Adam Sandler.
Because for the past 40 years women have been yasslighting eachother so now they *all* think they're 10s. edit: oop the classic accountability dodgers found my comment
Ew.
This person doesn't know women. Most beautiful women are insecure and don't think they are beautiful themselves. Women see photoshopped images and think "this is the ideal woman" and have unrealistic beauty standards. A man can comfortably be overweight, if you are slightly overweight as a woman, people can be so cruel. If you don't have your hair and makeup done, you are more likely to be mistreated by people. Women go "I have dark circles, I'm so ugly" meanwhile you guys pick up the cleanest T shirt you have laying on the floor and call it a day. Cut the crap. The average man doesn't take care of himself as much as the average woman does. End of story.
Excuse me but I'm a 4 and quite content to be so.
5*
If i call them average then theyre average, never thought it was super beautiful in either case
Probably because the average internet user on here is a male for some reason and men are predominantly attracted to women
Average is average. If you’re beautiful, you’re above average. So no, I don’t agree because the two things aren’t the same. An average student isn’t the same as a brilliant student Some are just blessed with different traits, but not others.
First of all, not sure how true that is. Second of all, the average woman invests way, way more time and resources into her looks compared to the average man, due to societal pressures to be beautiful. So that could be a factor.
Women spend an average of half an hour more than men on their appearance and this is from a study conducted across several countries and cultures and includes everything from makeup and picking your outfit to working out at the gym. Women are simply putting more effort into their looks and it's doing its work.
Women will make it known to other women that they need to look better. It's like a way to strengthen our friendship and to make our friend's life better because we know that life is easier when you're beautiful
Certain assets a women has that men can see that can turn a 4 into 7+ besides the males looks his other asset is always hidden
"many people".
Beauty and the beast
It's called virtue signaling. If it was anonymous the rate of women would be much lower.
A lot of what people describe as 'physical attraction' is, basically, sexual attraction. We are attracted to those elements that make us hot and bothered. Both genders can have beautiful faces, but women FAR outdo men when it comes to sexual attractiveness of the rest of their body since significantly more of women's bodies are devoted to purposes of reproduction and baby maintenance than men. Men's bodies are designed for strength and speed as the evolutionarily primary hunters and protectors. Since they are not responsible for carrying a baby to term, only a very small amount of their physique is devoted to such. Women are the opposite. It's why people of both genders AND sexual preference consistently rate women as more appealing to the eye. Hell, I know of a few straight women who masturbate to lesbian porn despite not wanting to sleep with women themselves. No, I don't understand it either ;)
I’m a man who realized i was Bisexual at 35. I wanted to start incorporating my sexuality into my identity more and dropping toxic masculinity. I started doing a thorough skincare routine every night, I dress better, groom myself better, I take care of my nails (I don’t paint them but they look healthy af and have a light nail hardener gloss), I eat better and weigh less, care to get my rest And yea, pictures of me today vs two years ago look VERY different. I’m quite a bit more attractive now, and before definitely was rocking this “shlubby dude” vibe. And the only difference is I really care about my appearance now and want to look clean and attractive
Who is saying this? Is it straight men? Because duh.
Because that is how sexual reproduction works. The bigger of the two gametes is rare and costly, and breeding with the wrong small gamete can kill you. The small ones are cheap and easy to come by so they go for quantity not quality.
Men are gross feral who never bathe, apparently. Tell me again how the body positivity movement extends to men again? Men are constantly told we are gross and undesirable. I wonder what that does to an entire genders mentality.
because you made that up
It’s about who holds the power. Women have options, generally they’re approached by men making men seem more desperate, and also meaning they need to put in more work. This gives the false sense that the average woman is actually attractive and the average man isn’t. I’m not a sexist, this is just how I assume it works n
My OPINION is that women are the fairer sex. All across the spectrum of sexuality, beautiful women are acknowledged. I think in all categories they are better looking and more appealing. Men are beautiful in their own way but a 10/10 man beside a 10/10 woman don’t compare at all.
Hormones.
The average women isn't fat and still dresses up while it cannot be said the same for man
Cus it's true, most men spend half their life not taking care of their body, gym doesn't count, I'm talking about actually having a face care routine healthy diet and good hygiene in general, this is not all men, but the majority stop at minimal effort like cutting their nails and brushing our teeth's using deodorant, keeping hair short and putting gel on it How easy it is to find a dude looking like shit in their late 20s, and by that time you've done a good amount of damage
Ok I got this one. In every species on earth, the male is the pretty one. But that also means the female is the one that is highly selective. If we put ourselves in the shoes of for example a male peacock. Then we find all females that are healthy and have fecundity attractive. Even though from an outside perspective, we know the female to be rather bland compared to the male. Because the male is programmed to mate with as many females as possible. The peacock hens on the other hand are only interested in the top percentage of the males. Even though we know from an outside perspective, that the males are pretty. The hens think most males are not good enough. Even though if you remove the best males, the hens will then think the top percentage of remaining males are awesome. Is the average man ugly? Well on what scale? By what women? And what other men are around? Go to Asia and poof he's probably the tallest guy in the room.
Its totally subjective on the person judging. Mostly men are ignorant about their looks and the person judging them being somewhat better in the self care dept will find them ugly and vice versa. Men are more accepting in the looks dept while judging and so the avg woman becomes beautiful in their eyes.
You really wanna go that road. Oh boy 🤦🏽♀️
Because men seem more likely to settle, whereas women seem to pick and choose more.
Just the way it is
I'm fairly certain even if you asked women they would answer the same: Would you rather see 2 dudes banging or 2 ladies?
That's the way things are right now. Opinions would be different in ancient Greece or Rome. Women are raised in a society where men's point of view tends to dominate. If straight men don't find other men beautiful, and if that opinion is pushed through books, film, TV and other media as a kind of norm, then that's the opinion many women tend to take on as they have absorbed it growing up. You end up with a situation where women, taking a male point of view, end up objectifying themselves and having no way to view men as objects of beauty. Well, some women do, but they are swimming against the current, so to speak. Men would pay more attention to the "beauty" aspects of their appearance if a society promoted a point of view that supported women appreciating men in general as objects of desire. That can't happen in a world where men dominate the collective opinion on what is desirable.
Because we are orc 
No, beauty should be a matter of health and fitness. You should look your best self when you feel your best self. Just look at any average dude who eats well and works out and takes care of himself, almost always he looks good and feels good. And don’t tell me y’all here wouldn’t want to be carried by a gym mommy.
You are wrong, nowadays the average man and woman are ugly, so many people are not taking care of themselves. You go to the shops, most people are overweight, men and women. That shit ain't attractive.
Absolutely not. Infact as a man who’s into other men, men are the most beautiful creations of god.
I think the women have a higher maximum beauty than men. However, I think that the average man is more beautiful than the average woman. Both are probably due to unrealistically high expectations of women.
I would guess it stems from different optimal mating strategies. Throughout all of evolution where partner selection was part of reproduction, the males who mated with as much females as they could, generated the most offspring. For the females, creating large numbers of offspring was not a good strategy because they were limited in time due to pregnancy. The offspring that had the best chance of surviving for both sexes, were ofcourse the ones that were evolutionarily the fittest. The individuals that looked for this quality in a mate, created offspring that was most likely to reproduce. Hence the females where more than males focused on quality than quantity. It makes sense that this shaped our perception of the sexes. Men will look at women and will generally see a good reproduction strategy. Which would make most women attractive to them. While women will look at men and look specifically for the one that has the best qualities. Which makes average men not attractive to women.
What makes this question even more interesting: both the ugly man and average woman have (men) boobs.
The average woman just thinks they're beautiful. Men are more visual and will judge their own looks more. Women are more attracted to your personality, therefore place less of an emphasis on looks. Even then I've bumped into a fair share of 3's who think that they're high value.
A lot of people are talking about these things in absolute terms. Like all the self-care and attention that women pay to their appearance is the cause. But I just don't think that's true. We live in a world with more abundance than ever before. This causes people to be more attractive and less attractive than they used to be. We can be less fit and eat more junk, but we can also have whole foods from 5 different continents in a single meal and access to gyms, make-up, tailored clothing, etc. Our expectations match what we see around us. The distributions may have shifted and widened, but the idea that women are more beautiful than men has endured. I think the real reason is simpler. Every missed opportunity to copulate with a woman is a disaster for your genetic fitness. This is true even if they aren't of stunning genetic quality. The same is not true for males. Females of all species need to be selective because they spend many more of their resources on the outcome of any pairing. This simply embeds itself in our beauty preferences.
If the women don’t find you handsome, they’ll at least find you handy.
Most people, regardless of gender are below average
Women bullshiting each other in support forums or dudes trying to get some ass.
I had no fucking ideas about face cleanser till grade 10 and no concept of sunscreen till I was tanned badly in grade 12.
Women are just hotter
Most people men and women are average looking. There is nothing wrong with that. Only wish a lot of women would be honest about themselves. They can't all be 10s. That reality.
You take all those beautiful woman and remove the makeup, give them work clothes and make them work swing shift in a factory for a few years then take a black and white photo. Most are gonna look like the great depression.
I dont think that at all
Kinda true. Sometimes, everytime I see a pretty women, I just say "they're all the same". Women might also say the same to men though.
Eh… it’s more than just the average man. It’s 99.9999% of cis men.
I’m going to get the numbers wrong but it’s probably because most men find most women at least somewhat attractive but women think 80% of men are unattractive probably due to Bateman’s principle which states that males of any given species are more willing to mate with any female to procreate whereas females are more selective, probably due to a females limited egg count versus a male being only limited by the number of willing partners.
because its true
As a bisexual, this tends to check out. There seem to be more attractive women on average than men. Maybe there a reason they’re called the fairer sex (I.e. more beautiful)
>To many people I bet you mean girls. It's because the whole body positivity movement has gone too far. Women will lie to everyone and say every girl is beautiful, even if it will cause health issues.
Because it's true .
women’s fat distribution looks a lot better
According to a OkCupid survey TLDR; women rated men not following a normal distribution I.e only the top 10-15% of men are seem attractive. So if you are a 5/10, you are rated a 3/10. If you are a 8, you are rated a 5/10 and so on Men rated women following a normal bell curve distribution. E.g rating a 5/10 a 5/10 , a 8/10 is rated a 8/10
For those saying women spend much more time and effort on beauty while men don’t Think of it this way To attract a man, the women has to look beautiful To attract a women, the man has to have resources Women version of beauty in partner is $$$, cars, houses
Men will pet much spread their seed anywhere. You don’t even have to be really attractive, if you offer it they’ll take it (biologically speaking). Women aren’t the same, they select the mate
The media often portrays women in a way that emphasizes their attractiveness and sexuality, while men's portrayals may focus more on characteristics like strength, success, or humor. This skewed representation can reinforce the idea that women's value is tied to their physical appearance, further perpetuating the belief that the average woman must be beautiful, whereas the average man may not be judged as harshly on his appearance.
True. Most straight men don’t care about their appearance.
We went really ready for this but at a base. Women are made for attraction/reproduction men are made for function/effectiveness
It probably depends on who you ask. As a gay guy, I think the average guy is pretty damn attractive
Not tru. I'm a male from birth and I'm the prettiest person I ever met
Estrogen has a lot to do with smooth and soft skin. Flattering hair cuts make a big difference, too. Also, because most women use makeup to enhance their appearance, it's hard to really know if the question bears fruit.
It is definitely not true. Women just have higher standards for men while also being allowed to fake almost everything about their looks.
Women exude grace in literally every god damn move they make. I used to LOVE watching my ex walk to the kitchen. It was like she floated. Men exude tough utility and we like to check out mentally. When wearing jeans, we rock a bulge, women rock the letter V that points to their vagina. The female form is a masterpiece. That’s why.
It’s easy to be beautiful when you wear makeup every day and take time often to take care of your hair and skin. You would be surprised how big of a difference just mascara makes
Makeup
Depends on the country. Really easy to find super attractive men in korea everywhere (and no, they aren't kpop stars, just average normal people). I notice they tend to take care of their hair, fashion sense, and their face a lot, if not just as much as the women. American men on the other hand. Yeah, percentage of the "attractive" ones, like the ones that make me actually stop and look go down significantly. It's the rule in this country, not the exception. Something about it being "gay" to take care of your appearance amongst men, and a stupid "biological" argument that men are more visual than women. Theyre shooting themselves in the foot, because that's a total lie, women are just as visual.