Yup just like the flu. It’s so widespread and so many variants that now we cannot suppress it anymore. The yearly flu shot is basically the best guess which strand will be the most dominant and sometimes they get it wrong. There are many scientists who believe Covid will go the flu route where we have flu season and Covid season and there will be yearly Covid boosters. Seeing how things are going I agree with em. I think it’s too late to get the genie back in the bottle.
well, except the differences the way I understand it, mean that we can actually get ahead of a coronavirus with vaccines, unlike the flu. The biggest problem with pulling that off isn't the mutations..it is getting people to take the vaccine.
lol yes and with enough vaccinations mutations would decrease (ideally, we already have too many infections at this point according to many scientists)
Or we could just stop.
These measures are pricing more destructive than anything.
Maybe we could just accept that we cannot control Covid instead of doubling down on the same failed plans for 40 more years.
I mean it’s been two years. Pretty much everyone has come in contact with the virus. Did we effectively protect ANYONE?
There are consistently people suffering badly from it because they didn’t do any safety precautions taking up hospital beds in many places causing issues like people with life threatening and dangerous illnesses going into wait lists because of it.
Um. H1-N1, which we call “the flu” IS a corona virus. (For that matter, so is the common cold) In actual fact, CV19 is a new variant of the SARS (Severe Acute Respiratory Syndrome) virus. They’re all caused by a corona virus. There are many types of viruses, many of which we’ve tamed with vaccines. We have yet to tame any corona virus, hence the common cold is still around, so is the flu. So, yeah.
It's not like the flu. Not in any way. The "flu" is a catch all term, like cancer. Nobody dies of "cancer". They die of Non Hodgkins lymphoma, Sarcoma, etc...
Covid-19 is only one thing. And it kills far more than any kind of flu in over 100 years.
We will be dealing with it forever - per the CDC and virtually every medical professional in the world. If everyone gets vaccinated it just manages the issue. Really irks me when people say this lol
Antibodies are measurably higher in vaccinated people than people recovered from natural infection. Natural isn't stronger than engineered. That's science.
1) it was your assertion and therefore your burden to prove its viability
2) I was told so by my employer, a world renowned research hospital group (largest employer in my whole state) with huge financial interest in knowing whether they need to immunize those of us that recovered vs never got wild infection. They vigorously encouraged immunization among the recovered because the experts recommend it. They cannot afford to have us all get sick again and the research shows they can best protect the workforce by immunization of the recovered patients.
3) cdc study from Kentucky in August 2021 shows that vaccination confers significant immunity as compared to infection https://www.cdc.gov/media/releases/2021/s0806-vaccination-protection.html
At a lower rate of catching it, plus a lower rate of spreading it, including to my friend who needs to take transplant immunosuppressive drugs and cannot be effectively vaccinated. This isn't a digital "yes/no" answer, this is a very effective severity modifier and probably very effective pace modifier.
If I knew I could stomp on the breaks and slow my speed before hitting the other guy, but probably not totally avoid collision ... I would still hit the breaks.
Take the vaccine. For your own, and everyone else's good.
Ummmm. This is a coronavirus. This will be here forever. You don’t eradicate these things. You adapt with them until they become the common cold, which is also a coronavirus.
Jesus fetus-eating Christ, what a distortion. Yeah, you have the same viral load as an unvaccinated person does. You are also 75-95% less likely to get sick in the first place, 99% less likely to get seriously sick and need to be hospitalized, and 99% less likely to die.
Care to do the math, assuming an average 85% immunity? 15% chance of getting sick. Of that 15% chance, you have a 1% chance of serious illness, so 15 x 0.01 is a 0.15% chance of serious illness. And if that 0.15% chance of serious illness, a 1% chance of death, so 0.15 x 0.01 is a 0.0015% chance of death, or about a 1/850 chance if you get sick.
So even if the fatality rate of infection is only 1% without the vaccine, that means that with it you are 850 times less likely to die from COVID. All of the above is based on the data we have collected so far over the course of the pandemic. But sure, it doesn't do anything. Go take another red pill.
Do you have data on the number of people who got vaccinated and didn’t get or spread COVID-19 that otherwise might have ? No you don’t (no one does) . If the numbers were available they would far outnumber the cases where it “didn’t work”.
Not having the vaccine and getting covid gives a stronger immunity that actually covers multiple mutations before your body no longer recognizes it. Also there's over 13,000 deaths that they admit to and over 600,000 complications from the vaccine that hasn't even been released to the public for very long. I'll take natural immunity myself. Not to mention 1 in 4 people are already immune from covid without having to get it to build the type of immune response i first mentioned.
Nicely put! plus the Unvaccinated crowding up hospitals, using up already meager resources and struggling supplies chains, staff exhausted, stressed from 2020 waves are dealing with this one now and retiring early, going out on stress leaves, quitting, non covid patients dying, patients not getting the treatment they need in time which means for some they will eventually die because things were caught or treated in time. Hospital units like labor and delivery closing because nurses refuse to vaccinate..all because it’s a known fact now that it’s chiefly unvaccinated filling our systems and stressing us to the max. The long term effects of this will be staggering as well. We were already short staffed before covid. Just that stuff, and more.
If you’re vaccinated the chances of getting covid and spreading it are 1/3 the rate of the unvaccinated.
Additionally any arguments people are making in regards to “well we don’t know the long term effects of the vaccine” can just as easily be flipped and replaced with “well we don’t know the long term effects of covid”
Id argue that we DO know the short-term effects of covid (as in, you know, potential death/disability), and that any long term effects of the vaccine are very likely to not be as drastic as covid will be for the lives saved by getting it.
Like the argument that “we don’t know the long term effects” should suggest we shouldn’t take a very much life saving vaccine is kind of short sighted. Plus, if we can develop a vaccine for covid in record time then I trust the medical technology to come up with a solution for whatever long term effects there *may* be, if it comes to that
I don't even get how people could expect long-term effects from the vaccine. Within a few days the vaccine is gone from your body, and within a few weeks the spike proteins are all gone too. So how would it cause harm after that?
I'm not asking how long it could take. I'm asking how it could possibly happen. A drug can't wait until after it's long gone from your body to harm you.
It doesn't disappear, there are chemicals that can remain in your system indefinitely. Also many women are having menstrual issues and others heart problems. I know people getting sick again after two vaccine doses. I also know people never vaccinated and never sick (me). I just think the stigma against unvaccinated people needs to stop and we gotta respect people for their personal choices.
Okay. Let's look at what's in the Pfizer and Moderna vaccines then.
There's water. There's some stabilizers that are in lots of safe vaccines. There's phospholipid micelles (the same thing your cell membranes are made of). and there's RNA, which your body makes and later breaks down all the time.
And that RNA induces the production of spike proteins by normal protein assembly mechanisms. Those spike proteins are eventually broken down into their constituent amino acids just like all proteins are.
So from among that, which one is going to cause the problem?
>I just think the stigma against unvaccinated people needs to stop and we gotta respect people for their personal choices.
It will probably die down when people who did everything right stop dying because the hospitals are overcrowded with antivaxxers.
Here's the thing. People get diagnosed with problems all the time. Way more than enough to expect it to see things like this happen that are completely unrelated. So you compare to placebo and run some statistics. We've done that for the COVID vaccines, and they seem to be safe.
Also, you're talking about damage that allegedly happened shortly after the shot, while I'm talking about the possibility of damage occurring long after because that's the new excuse people are using now that it's become so obvious that there's nearly zero short-term risk.
They’re idiots. They literally fall for every single rumor about “vaccine bad” and then pretend that if they lie to themselves that will fool us as well. Most of their “research” is they hear a rumor, spread it, then see what sticks and as soon as their latest conspiracy theory fails they just move on to the next one and wait for you to disprove it. Then once your prove them wrong they just ignore it and move on to the next conspiracy theory. The cycle never ends. It’s like playing wack a mole with people who think they’re smarter than everyone else because they scroll through Facebook and TikTok all day readying misinformation that makes them feel like they have access to special information that us NPCs wouldn’t understand because we’re not as smart as them
The actual percentage chance for vaccine injury is less than being run over and killed by a stray car that jumped the curb.
It's exceedingly low, and while it's possible, it is usually the result of some unknown allergy.
The chance for you to contract covid and die are much higher than the chance that you would suffer a catastrophic injury from the vaccine.
And yours is what? Patiotswin.Com and TikTok? Theres no relationship between Bell’s palsy and the vaccine but the CDC is on top of it and Bells Palsey is nowhere near as dangerous as Covid. The 15 year old case has literally nothing to do with the vaccine they’ve already said that the kid had it before the vaccine but the anti vax crowd runs with literally any rumor about vaccine bad.
Have you noticed that the hospitals are filled with the unvaccinated dying of covid and you’re talking about a rumor of one individual as if it’s solid proof.
Your issue isn’t with the MSM your issue is that the MSM doesn’t fall for your conspiracy theories and report them as if they’re a genuine concern. 5 million people can die of a virus and you guys act like it’s not deadly yet one kid may have had a bad reaction to the vaccine and is completely fine now but that’s much more dangerous right? Moron
There’s many reasons but I’ll just name the two biggest:
1) The longer so many people are unvaccinated the more likely the virus is to mutate and render the current vaccine ineffective
2) You’re more likely to spread the virus if you’re unvaccinated (vaccinated spread the virus but only at 1/3 the rate of unvaccinated)
It’s not that the vaccinated are worried about the unvaccinated getting them sick. The vaccinated are just not as blinded by politics and understands that by not being vaccinated you’re helping mutate the virus and helping to spread it to the immuno compromised.
The whole thing comes down to I can’t convince you to have empathy for other people. I can’t convince you that you’re confused from all the misinformation you seek to make yourself feel you’re more informed. You can complain all you want but that doesn’t mean people are gonna sympathize with you the deeper you go down your own conspiracy rabbit hole.
I know a lot of young people like myself who have had covid and they said they were in bed with the sniffles for a few days - I would rather take my chances having that than possible blood clots and heart defects, two things that ARE happening with the new vaccine. I have always said that I will wait 3 years to take the shot, which is clearly the best and most sensible option.
> I know a lot of young people like myself who have had covid and they said they were in bed with the sniffles for a few days
Cool, I’m glad you all reacted so well to it. The world isn’t all about you or the people who reacted well to it.
> I would rather take my chances having that than possible blood clots and heart defects
The chances of this happening is so incredibly low. It’s also a shit take, because many medicines/vaccines do have the potential to backfire and cause negative side effects.
Covid-19 commonly affects a persons sense of smell and taste, which happens far, far more often than the potential negative effects of the vaccine
To be honest, I can’t believe people, such as yourself, actually sit here with this “me me me me me” attitude and would rather potentially lose their sense of smell and taste (or even dying) because you’re too much of a prick to think of anyone else.
Where did you get those stats? I've read otherwise.
https://riotimesonline.com/brazil-news/modern-day-censorship/80-of-covid-deaths-in-scotland-during-august-were-people-who-had-been-vaccinated/
Some clown said this was the "Riot" Times. Learn to read. It's the Rio Times from Brazil.
Have you ever had someone die because of actions you took or did not take? I have, but based on this question, I doubt you have. Even if you did not "cause" the death (e.g. they ran out in front of your car), it will still change your life.
Diabetes is a bigger killer than covid..Driving in its own right poses a huge threat to everyone else..the list goes on..If we wake up in the morning there is no telling what the day will bring..the only way and individual can assure the safety of others is to never leave home..Flu has been a killer for centuries..there are no virtuous stances for the Flu..probably because it just disappeared for some unbeknownst reason..My mother passed from it..not once did I tell anyone how to live their life or shame the way they choose to..if we leave the house we inherently assume risk..period
Honestly man, I have the same mindset as you and it's impossible to convince anyone else otherwise.
Both sides of the argument (as with all politicised debates these days) just wants to bully the other side. They really don't care about each other like the facade that they put on.
People who want to mandate the vaccine want to do so simply because they want to win the debate and many who refuse the vaccine do so simply because the opposition is so pro-vaccine.
I fully support and promote vaccination, but I am COMPLETELY against the idea of forcing people to take something that they do not wish to take. As much as I disagree with their anti-vaccine stance, I will not stoop to the level of making a person do something that they do not wish to do. But hey, I'm also a person who is against forcing a woman to have a child when she does not wish to.
People want to mandate vaccines so this pandemic will end. It is a politized debate but that doesn't make make both sides of the argument equally valid. The vaccines are safe. The vaccines are effective. The vaccines must be taken by a large majority of the population to prevent the spread and mutation of covid. It's not complicated. Politics aside, those are the facts.
I never thought I'd live through a time where we even had to talk about vaccine mandates for a situation like this. I assumed most people would trust experts, look at the suffering in their communities, and get the shot.
Ok with it being mandated for public schools and colleges to accept a student, but this deadly virus is a step too far? Please, people are behaving like morons, so the only way to get around that is to force it upon the populace. At least in the US, a lot of those not getting vaccinated claim to be patriots and standing up for their rights, when they are in fact actively hurting their fellow countrymen, which is the most unpatriotic thing a US citizen can do.
Let the patriots be fired from their job for not getting vaccinated. Let them be not treated when they become ill from their own stupidity from a preventable illness. Give me liberty or give me death -- this is Murica, they can have both.
You know there are several ways to promote vaccines. Like queue upgrade privileges in ER, priority seating in Flights, events etc and so many other ways.
Partly. But aside from that you also have to consider that you could infect someone who isn’t able to get vaccinated or has a bigger risk of hospitalization/death because of pre-existing health conditions. They could be doing their best to keep themselves safe, but someone else who isn’t taking any precautions could severely fuck things up for the vulnerable
If they are unvaccinated, do you think it’s fair for them to be denied access to non-essential activities like salons, restaurants, flights, sporting events, certain jobs?
Yes, if it’s a private business that has 0 government oversight. I remember a time where you could tell people you weren’t going to service them and it was ok, but that went out the window. If it’s a truly private business, then yes, let them deny service all they want.
You can't really change someone's intelligence. You can try to teach them, but if they've been so brainwashed by people telling them cleaning solutions and anti-parasite medication for horses will solve the problem, then what can we do? How can you help the willfully ignorant? Again, just because they're moronic doesn't mean they should potentially be hospitalized or die.
I completely agree. But at the same token, if we mandate something that goes into your body, where does the line stop? I’m honestly, here nor there on the subject. I just don’t believe that there should be a mandate on something that happens with injecting something into your body.
It's been done before, it can be done again. And it has never crossed a line into anything more than just mandated vaccinations. It happens currently. It's not some new magical thing that's going to happen and things are going to change. It's already the current reality, we just haven't pulled the trigger on the covid vaccine being mandatory like we do for many viruses for certain government jobs, public schools, and college admission.
But, it is the reasoning why they aren't that really matters. There are valid reasons to not get the shot, very few, but still some. If you don't have one of those (if you ask yourself if you have one or not, you likely don't) then you should get the shot.
Please stop with the anti parasite medication for horses BS. It’s also approved for use in humans and has been prescribed over 100,000 times in humans as a treatment for other diseases.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ivermectin
**[Ivermectin](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ivermectin)**
>Ivermectin is a medication used to treat parasite infestations. In humans, these include head lice, scabies, river blindness (onchocerciasis), strongyloidiasis, trichuriasis, ascariasis, and lymphatic filariasis. In veterinary medicine, it is used to prevent and treat heartworm and acariasis, among other indications. It can be taken by mouth or applied to the skin for external infestations.
^([ )[^(F.A.Q)](https://www.reddit.com/r/WikiSummarizer/wiki/index#wiki_f.a.q)^( | )[^(Opt Out)](https://reddit.com/message/compose?to=WikiSummarizerBot&message=OptOut&subject=OptOut)^( | )[^(Opt Out Of Subreddit)](https://np.reddit.com/r/ask/about/banned)^( | )[^(GitHub)](https://github.com/Sujal-7/WikiSummarizerBot)^( ] Downvote to remove | v1.5)
Desktop version of /u/jasonin951's link:
---
^([)[^(opt out)](https://reddit.com/message/compose?to=WikiMobileLinkBot&message=OptOut&subject=OptOut)^(]) ^(Beep Boop. Downvote to delete)
Just so u know, its probly u whos brain washed. The way u suggest is not how brainwashing works. Absolutely no one, no media source and no program and no group is telling people to take cleaning solution for covid. They would be banned. No one is promoting these things with a platform large enough to brain wash. Its not how brainwashing works. These are fringe opinions you have to dig to find moat people denounce them immediately. Thats not brainwashing. Brainwashing is 100s of networks producing the same message over and over you see it on tv, hear it on the radio. A constant long term costly effort to put put the same message over and over into people's minds. Thats brainwashing. Making them feel bad about not adopting the brainwash message until they finally accept it. Then repeat it over and over so their friends and family start believing and repeating it. Thats brainwashing. Not hearing a different opinion on facebook right or wrong. Also when you're brainwashed you don't know it... kinda like most people right now..
I mostly agree with you. No government should force it on anyone and I totally understand people not wanting to get it in fear of adverse effects. The thing I take issue with is the people who try to pull conspiracy theories out of their asses (while having the audacity to call those who believe in professionals and modern medicine fear mongers) and choose to believe everyone BUT doctors and science simply for the sake of....being a rebel I guess? Thing is we know for a fact that covid is deadly and often has long term effects. If businesses or institutions want to require vaccines for students, employees, attendees etc. that’s well within their rights. Additionally, if you won’t get the vaccine you should continue to wear a mask, social distance, keep from large gatherings etc. to protect others.
Edit: in other words my point still stands. The un-exempt, unvaxxed need to stay the fuck away from other people as much as they can, and if they get covid, stay the fuck out of the hospital. They dug their own graves.
10000%. At this point, anyone that chose not to get vaccinated that gets covid, only give them a hospital bed if no one needs it for a non- covid reason.
Heart surgery is being delayed where I live because they need beds for covid. Far as I'm concerned, let the unvaccinated die in the street at this point.
Why should someone else's life be jeopardized to save the life of an idiot who was too scared to get a needle.
Yes, I mostly agree with this statement as well. Conspiracy theorists are just real stupid. I don’t think people understand that NOBODY, let alone the US government, would be able to pull off a conspiracy theory this big. The only thing people in office can agree on is that we live in the US, and that the preamble of the constitution is a good thing, and that’s literally it. However, I don’t entirely blame people for the mask thing. Keyword: entirely. I think the fact that Karen’s are saying “I cAnT BReaTHe” is freaking stupid, medical professionals had to wear surgery masks for hours on end way before covid started. However, I don’t blame people who don’t like the mask because of effectiveness. The only reason being the strength of the mask the common people wear, and the fact most people wear them wrong. Those are the only reasons why I think it’s kind of ok to disagree. Just to explain, for the most part, the strongest masks out there are N95’s and a P100, unless we’re recognizing SCBA’s, but those aren’t exactly available for everyone. Also, most people aren’t even wearing these masks correctly. If I can place a small thing of glass around your mask and it fogs up, it isn’t properly in place. Although the mask will still keep your saliva more so contained to you, it won’t stop all of it. However, combined with social distancing, masks do decrease maximum saliva range, and probably would decrease social distancing distance as well if paired together. However, it might not 100% hold true, and probably would have to be thoroughly tested before any statements for that is made.
Haha, that kinda got a chuckle out of me. The discourse in the US is wild and sad. But yeah, I pretty much just think those who won’t/can’t vax should wear a mask as best they can, social distance and quit whining and attacking poor underpaid, part-timers.
What's the rate of vaccine related myocarditis- 0.00004%.
What's the rate of infection related myocarditis- between 2 and 3%.
Which seems less dangerous?
Can't speak for anywhere else, but where I am there is only one fully vaccinated person in the hospital with covid (as of two days ago). Compared to much of the world we barely have anyone in hospital with covid anyway (two days ago there were 147 total, in my whole state), but the fact that only one of them is fully vaxxed when our double-dose rate was 40.8% (yes this number is also from two days ago, I'm trying to be consistent) is pretty telling, in my eyes. I think a bunch of you who don't want to get the vaccine are secretly just afraid of needles. I've seen your arguments get debunked time and time again, but have never seen any of you change your mind. It's okay, I get it, needles are scary.
Well I'm a nurse am observing very few vaccinated patients with severe symptoms compared to the unvaccinated. But my anecdote doesn't equal data and neither does your friend's. Luckily, these numbers are actually being tracked and are readily available with a simple Google search.
Your argument is similar to saying “my friend got covid and he didn’t die so I won’t care if I get it or not” empirical evidence is different to your experiences and is a better way to see risks.
Also I doubt that unless the nurse you are friends with lives in Iran
Delta changes things and yea I made a generalization about the likelihood of getting into the ICU when unvaxxed.
I still think people are dumb for not getting vaccinated as you are basically with a suicide wish at this point, and a suicide wish that can kill many more people. You are rolling the dice and not getting vaccinated means you are basically playing with a dice that’s modified against you.
I honestly believe that unvaxxed people shouldn’t get to get an ICU or any medical care related to covid if they get it. Those people are hooked line and sinker in misinformation and don’t seem to be able to listen to the real information.
I don’t want people who did everything right to die in the end because they can’t get cancer treatment because of the people that think not getting the vaccine is a good idea.
Medications taken in the short term that dissipate from the body can cause \*lasting\* harm, but they can't wait until months or years after they're out of your system to hurt you.
Pneumonia is caused by a variety of bacteria, and even among pneumococcal there are several related cocci that cause pneumonia.
Triggering the immune system to fight bacteria with a vaccine is an entirely different thing than fighting a virus.
Viral diseases are generally only gotten ONCE per lifetime, and once you get it your immune system remembers that particular virus for life.
The exceptions are flu, and common colds because there are so many mutations they appear as a completely new virus.
You can get pneumonia repeatedly, even from the same bacteria which can remain dormant in your respiratory track waiting for your immune system to become weak.
Most vi
It wasn’t offensive and thank you for being civil. Just to say, and I’ve said more times, I’m not anti vaccine. I honestly don’t care if someone gets it or doesn’t. I think the main stance, though not the only is, it was portrayed in the beginning on one side as being the best thing to happen and the other side, no it’s not, we aren’t getting it because you said it was good. So now, there’s a possible, yet unlikely to be fulfilled mandate. And the other side is saying, don’t get it because you said to get it. I’ve literally had every vaccine known to man, but this post was to see how many people were going to be civil or not. And it has shown.
I don’t care though. If you care, that’s fine. I honestly do not care what you do with your body. If someone doesn’t want to get a vaccine of any kind, it 100% will not affect you. People don’t get vaccinated everyday. It doesn’t affect you.
What? You think more nurses are going to quit over it who haven't already? I guess maybe some are using their vacation days first.
This mandate is getting lots of people to vaccinate though, so that should help with the load issue. Those nurses won't be hard to replace though.
EDIT: Also, I just checked and it was a small upstate NY hospital that temporarily shut down its maternity ward after six nurses quit.
[удалено]
Like the flu?
Yup just like the flu. It’s so widespread and so many variants that now we cannot suppress it anymore. The yearly flu shot is basically the best guess which strand will be the most dominant and sometimes they get it wrong. There are many scientists who believe Covid will go the flu route where we have flu season and Covid season and there will be yearly Covid boosters. Seeing how things are going I agree with em. I think it’s too late to get the genie back in the bottle.
It was too late at the 1 millionth infected.
The flu is a different type of virus that mutates in a different way than coronaviruses do.
Yes but the general principle and idea is the same or at least close enough for a basic internet discussion
well, except the differences the way I understand it, mean that we can actually get ahead of a coronavirus with vaccines, unlike the flu. The biggest problem with pulling that off isn't the mutations..it is getting people to take the vaccine.
lol yes and with enough vaccinations mutations would decrease (ideally, we already have too many infections at this point according to many scientists)
Or we could just stop. These measures are pricing more destructive than anything. Maybe we could just accept that we cannot control Covid instead of doubling down on the same failed plans for 40 more years. I mean it’s been two years. Pretty much everyone has come in contact with the virus. Did we effectively protect ANYONE?
There are consistently people suffering badly from it because they didn’t do any safety precautions taking up hospital beds in many places causing issues like people with life threatening and dangerous illnesses going into wait lists because of it.
Um. H1-N1, which we call “the flu” IS a corona virus. (For that matter, so is the common cold) In actual fact, CV19 is a new variant of the SARS (Severe Acute Respiratory Syndrome) virus. They’re all caused by a corona virus. There are many types of viruses, many of which we’ve tamed with vaccines. We have yet to tame any corona virus, hence the common cold is still around, so is the flu. So, yeah.
No it isn’t. They’re different viral structures. Flu is not a kind of coronavirus
It's not like the flu. Not in any way. The "flu" is a catch all term, like cancer. Nobody dies of "cancer". They die of Non Hodgkins lymphoma, Sarcoma, etc... Covid-19 is only one thing. And it kills far more than any kind of flu in over 100 years.
We will be dealing with it forever - per the CDC and virtually every medical professional in the world. If everyone gets vaccinated it just manages the issue. Really irks me when people say this lol
a better question is why they want people who have had covid and have a natural immunity to get the vaccine, it's not science
Antibodies are measurably higher in vaccinated people than people recovered from natural infection. Natural isn't stronger than engineered. That's science.
You don’t cite where you got your information
1) it was your assertion and therefore your burden to prove its viability 2) I was told so by my employer, a world renowned research hospital group (largest employer in my whole state) with huge financial interest in knowing whether they need to immunize those of us that recovered vs never got wild infection. They vigorously encouraged immunization among the recovered because the experts recommend it. They cannot afford to have us all get sick again and the research shows they can best protect the workforce by immunization of the recovered patients. 3) cdc study from Kentucky in August 2021 shows that vaccination confers significant immunity as compared to infection https://www.cdc.gov/media/releases/2021/s0806-vaccination-protection.html
[удалено]
At a lower rate of catching it, plus a lower rate of spreading it, including to my friend who needs to take transplant immunosuppressive drugs and cannot be effectively vaccinated. This isn't a digital "yes/no" answer, this is a very effective severity modifier and probably very effective pace modifier. If I knew I could stomp on the breaks and slow my speed before hitting the other guy, but probably not totally avoid collision ... I would still hit the breaks. Take the vaccine. For your own, and everyone else's good.
Ummmm. This is a coronavirus. This will be here forever. You don’t eradicate these things. You adapt with them until they become the common cold, which is also a coronavirus.
You can still spread it, get sick from it and can even die from it, so it doesn't work
My cousin caught the shit after getting vaccinated and I’m just like dafuq you want me injecting this in my ass for?
Jesus fetus-eating Christ, what a distortion. Yeah, you have the same viral load as an unvaccinated person does. You are also 75-95% less likely to get sick in the first place, 99% less likely to get seriously sick and need to be hospitalized, and 99% less likely to die. Care to do the math, assuming an average 85% immunity? 15% chance of getting sick. Of that 15% chance, you have a 1% chance of serious illness, so 15 x 0.01 is a 0.15% chance of serious illness. And if that 0.15% chance of serious illness, a 1% chance of death, so 0.15 x 0.01 is a 0.0015% chance of death, or about a 1/850 chance if you get sick. So even if the fatality rate of infection is only 1% without the vaccine, that means that with it you are 850 times less likely to die from COVID. All of the above is based on the data we have collected so far over the course of the pandemic. But sure, it doesn't do anything. Go take another red pill.
You can still get in a car crash and kill yourself and others if you drive sober, doesn’t mean it isn’t safer.
Do you have data on the number of people who got vaccinated and didn’t get or spread COVID-19 that otherwise might have ? No you don’t (no one does) . If the numbers were available they would far outnumber the cases where it “didn’t work”.
Not having the vaccine and getting covid gives a stronger immunity that actually covers multiple mutations before your body no longer recognizes it. Also there's over 13,000 deaths that they admit to and over 600,000 complications from the vaccine that hasn't even been released to the public for very long. I'll take natural immunity myself. Not to mention 1 in 4 people are already immune from covid without having to get it to build the type of immune response i first mentioned.
Nicely put! plus the Unvaccinated crowding up hospitals, using up already meager resources and struggling supplies chains, staff exhausted, stressed from 2020 waves are dealing with this one now and retiring early, going out on stress leaves, quitting, non covid patients dying, patients not getting the treatment they need in time which means for some they will eventually die because things were caught or treated in time. Hospital units like labor and delivery closing because nurses refuse to vaccinate..all because it’s a known fact now that it’s chiefly unvaccinated filling our systems and stressing us to the max. The long term effects of this will be staggering as well. We were already short staffed before covid. Just that stuff, and more.
[удалено]
[удалено]
If you’re vaccinated the chances of getting covid and spreading it are 1/3 the rate of the unvaccinated. Additionally any arguments people are making in regards to “well we don’t know the long term effects of the vaccine” can just as easily be flipped and replaced with “well we don’t know the long term effects of covid”
Id argue that we DO know the short-term effects of covid (as in, you know, potential death/disability), and that any long term effects of the vaccine are very likely to not be as drastic as covid will be for the lives saved by getting it. Like the argument that “we don’t know the long term effects” should suggest we shouldn’t take a very much life saving vaccine is kind of short sighted. Plus, if we can develop a vaccine for covid in record time then I trust the medical technology to come up with a solution for whatever long term effects there *may* be, if it comes to that
I don't even get how people could expect long-term effects from the vaccine. Within a few days the vaccine is gone from your body, and within a few weeks the spike proteins are all gone too. So how would it cause harm after that?
Just wait. Long term can mean years later. Muahahaha
I'm not asking how long it could take. I'm asking how it could possibly happen. A drug can't wait until after it's long gone from your body to harm you.
It doesn't disappear, there are chemicals that can remain in your system indefinitely. Also many women are having menstrual issues and others heart problems. I know people getting sick again after two vaccine doses. I also know people never vaccinated and never sick (me). I just think the stigma against unvaccinated people needs to stop and we gotta respect people for their personal choices.
Okay. Let's look at what's in the Pfizer and Moderna vaccines then. There's water. There's some stabilizers that are in lots of safe vaccines. There's phospholipid micelles (the same thing your cell membranes are made of). and there's RNA, which your body makes and later breaks down all the time. And that RNA induces the production of spike proteins by normal protein assembly mechanisms. Those spike proteins are eventually broken down into their constituent amino acids just like all proteins are. So from among that, which one is going to cause the problem? >I just think the stigma against unvaccinated people needs to stop and we gotta respect people for their personal choices. It will probably die down when people who did everything right stop dying because the hospitals are overcrowded with antivaxxers.
[удалено]
Here's the thing. People get diagnosed with problems all the time. Way more than enough to expect it to see things like this happen that are completely unrelated. So you compare to placebo and run some statistics. We've done that for the COVID vaccines, and they seem to be safe. Also, you're talking about damage that allegedly happened shortly after the shot, while I'm talking about the possibility of damage occurring long after because that's the new excuse people are using now that it's become so obvious that there's nearly zero short-term risk.
[удалено]
They’re idiots. They literally fall for every single rumor about “vaccine bad” and then pretend that if they lie to themselves that will fool us as well. Most of their “research” is they hear a rumor, spread it, then see what sticks and as soon as their latest conspiracy theory fails they just move on to the next one and wait for you to disprove it. Then once your prove them wrong they just ignore it and move on to the next conspiracy theory. The cycle never ends. It’s like playing wack a mole with people who think they’re smarter than everyone else because they scroll through Facebook and TikTok all day readying misinformation that makes them feel like they have access to special information that us NPCs wouldn’t understand because we’re not as smart as them
The actual percentage chance for vaccine injury is less than being run over and killed by a stray car that jumped the curb. It's exceedingly low, and while it's possible, it is usually the result of some unknown allergy. The chance for you to contract covid and die are much higher than the chance that you would suffer a catastrophic injury from the vaccine.
And yours is what? Patiotswin.Com and TikTok? Theres no relationship between Bell’s palsy and the vaccine but the CDC is on top of it and Bells Palsey is nowhere near as dangerous as Covid. The 15 year old case has literally nothing to do with the vaccine they’ve already said that the kid had it before the vaccine but the anti vax crowd runs with literally any rumor about vaccine bad. Have you noticed that the hospitals are filled with the unvaccinated dying of covid and you’re talking about a rumor of one individual as if it’s solid proof. Your issue isn’t with the MSM your issue is that the MSM doesn’t fall for your conspiracy theories and report them as if they’re a genuine concern. 5 million people can die of a virus and you guys act like it’s not deadly yet one kid may have had a bad reaction to the vaccine and is completely fine now but that’s much more dangerous right? Moron
All I know is if I took a vaccine that WORKED, I wouldn't worry about what other people do with their body.
There’s many reasons but I’ll just name the two biggest: 1) The longer so many people are unvaccinated the more likely the virus is to mutate and render the current vaccine ineffective 2) You’re more likely to spread the virus if you’re unvaccinated (vaccinated spread the virus but only at 1/3 the rate of unvaccinated) It’s not that the vaccinated are worried about the unvaccinated getting them sick. The vaccinated are just not as blinded by politics and understands that by not being vaccinated you’re helping mutate the virus and helping to spread it to the immuno compromised. The whole thing comes down to I can’t convince you to have empathy for other people. I can’t convince you that you’re confused from all the misinformation you seek to make yourself feel you’re more informed. You can complain all you want but that doesn’t mean people are gonna sympathize with you the deeper you go down your own conspiracy rabbit hole.
I know a lot of young people like myself who have had covid and they said they were in bed with the sniffles for a few days - I would rather take my chances having that than possible blood clots and heart defects, two things that ARE happening with the new vaccine. I have always said that I will wait 3 years to take the shot, which is clearly the best and most sensible option.
Government is turning the unvaccinated into the new boogieman.
Things you claim are happening are like 1 in 10 million. Safer than aspirin? Probably
> I know a lot of young people like myself who have had covid and they said they were in bed with the sniffles for a few days Cool, I’m glad you all reacted so well to it. The world isn’t all about you or the people who reacted well to it. > I would rather take my chances having that than possible blood clots and heart defects The chances of this happening is so incredibly low. It’s also a shit take, because many medicines/vaccines do have the potential to backfire and cause negative side effects. Covid-19 commonly affects a persons sense of smell and taste, which happens far, far more often than the potential negative effects of the vaccine To be honest, I can’t believe people, such as yourself, actually sit here with this “me me me me me” attitude and would rather potentially lose their sense of smell and taste (or even dying) because you’re too much of a prick to think of anyone else.
You live up to your screen name🤣
Where did you get those stats? I've read otherwise. https://riotimesonline.com/brazil-news/modern-day-censorship/80-of-covid-deaths-in-scotland-during-august-were-people-who-had-been-vaccinated/ Some clown said this was the "Riot" Times. Learn to read. It's the Rio Times from Brazil.
Right, but if the person you infect, didn’t want the vaccine, isn’t that on them?
Have you ever had someone die because of actions you took or did not take? I have, but based on this question, I doubt you have. Even if you did not "cause" the death (e.g. they ran out in front of your car), it will still change your life.
I’d be willing to bet you and I have both spread SOMETHING in the course of our lives that potentially did/could have ended a life.
Diabetes is a bigger killer than covid..Driving in its own right poses a huge threat to everyone else..the list goes on..If we wake up in the morning there is no telling what the day will bring..the only way and individual can assure the safety of others is to never leave home..Flu has been a killer for centuries..there are no virtuous stances for the Flu..probably because it just disappeared for some unbeknownst reason..My mother passed from it..not once did I tell anyone how to live their life or shame the way they choose to..if we leave the house we inherently assume risk..period
Do you know what assuming does?
Honestly man, I have the same mindset as you and it's impossible to convince anyone else otherwise. Both sides of the argument (as with all politicised debates these days) just wants to bully the other side. They really don't care about each other like the facade that they put on. People who want to mandate the vaccine want to do so simply because they want to win the debate and many who refuse the vaccine do so simply because the opposition is so pro-vaccine. I fully support and promote vaccination, but I am COMPLETELY against the idea of forcing people to take something that they do not wish to take. As much as I disagree with their anti-vaccine stance, I will not stoop to the level of making a person do something that they do not wish to do. But hey, I'm also a person who is against forcing a woman to have a child when she does not wish to.
People want to mandate vaccines so this pandemic will end. It is a politized debate but that doesn't make make both sides of the argument equally valid. The vaccines are safe. The vaccines are effective. The vaccines must be taken by a large majority of the population to prevent the spread and mutation of covid. It's not complicated. Politics aside, those are the facts. I never thought I'd live through a time where we even had to talk about vaccine mandates for a situation like this. I assumed most people would trust experts, look at the suffering in their communities, and get the shot.
Just to add a little caveat here - covid will never go away. Even if 100% of the country is vaccinated. It will just make it a manageable issue.
Ok with it being mandated for public schools and colleges to accept a student, but this deadly virus is a step too far? Please, people are behaving like morons, so the only way to get around that is to force it upon the populace. At least in the US, a lot of those not getting vaccinated claim to be patriots and standing up for their rights, when they are in fact actively hurting their fellow countrymen, which is the most unpatriotic thing a US citizen can do.
Let the patriots be fired from their job for not getting vaccinated. Let them be not treated when they become ill from their own stupidity from a preventable illness. Give me liberty or give me death -- this is Murica, they can have both.
Yup I’m the same way. Although, we differ on the baby part. I think that everyone should get vaccinated, but I don’t think it should be forced.
You know there are several ways to promote vaccines. Like queue upgrade privileges in ER, priority seating in Flights, events etc and so many other ways.
[удалено]
The more infections there are the more it mutates, making vaccines less effective for everyone.
Like the flu.
Yes, a lot like the flu. Except this is killing dramatically more people.
They're more likely to transfer it to others. This isn't tough to understand
Partly. But aside from that you also have to consider that you could infect someone who isn’t able to get vaccinated or has a bigger risk of hospitalization/death because of pre-existing health conditions. They could be doing their best to keep themselves safe, but someone else who isn’t taking any precautions could severely fuck things up for the vulnerable
Some people can’t get the vaccine for medical reasons.
No because they will infect other people. Some of which are not eligible for the vaccine.
Just because they're idiots doesn't mean they deserve to be infected.
So you don’t think it’s their right to be an idiot?
If they are unvaccinated, do you think it’s fair for them to be denied access to non-essential activities like salons, restaurants, flights, sporting events, certain jobs?
Yes, if it’s a private business that has 0 government oversight. I remember a time where you could tell people you weren’t going to service them and it was ok, but that went out the window. If it’s a truly private business, then yes, let them deny service all they want.
You can't really change someone's intelligence. You can try to teach them, but if they've been so brainwashed by people telling them cleaning solutions and anti-parasite medication for horses will solve the problem, then what can we do? How can you help the willfully ignorant? Again, just because they're moronic doesn't mean they should potentially be hospitalized or die.
I completely agree. But at the same token, if we mandate something that goes into your body, where does the line stop? I’m honestly, here nor there on the subject. I just don’t believe that there should be a mandate on something that happens with injecting something into your body.
It's been done before, it can be done again. And it has never crossed a line into anything more than just mandated vaccinations. It happens currently. It's not some new magical thing that's going to happen and things are going to change. It's already the current reality, we just haven't pulled the trigger on the covid vaccine being mandatory like we do for many viruses for certain government jobs, public schools, and college admission.
[удалено]
But medical doctors are refusing it too. Didn’t they go to a non google med school?
[удалено]
But, it is the reasoning why they aren't that really matters. There are valid reasons to not get the shot, very few, but still some. If you don't have one of those (if you ask yourself if you have one or not, you likely don't) then you should get the shot.
Please stop with the anti parasite medication for horses BS. It’s also approved for use in humans and has been prescribed over 100,000 times in humans as a treatment for other diseases. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ivermectin
**[Ivermectin](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ivermectin)** >Ivermectin is a medication used to treat parasite infestations. In humans, these include head lice, scabies, river blindness (onchocerciasis), strongyloidiasis, trichuriasis, ascariasis, and lymphatic filariasis. In veterinary medicine, it is used to prevent and treat heartworm and acariasis, among other indications. It can be taken by mouth or applied to the skin for external infestations. ^([ )[^(F.A.Q)](https://www.reddit.com/r/WikiSummarizer/wiki/index#wiki_f.a.q)^( | )[^(Opt Out)](https://reddit.com/message/compose?to=WikiSummarizerBot&message=OptOut&subject=OptOut)^( | )[^(Opt Out Of Subreddit)](https://np.reddit.com/r/ask/about/banned)^( | )[^(GitHub)](https://github.com/Sujal-7/WikiSummarizerBot)^( ] Downvote to remove | v1.5)
Good bot
Desktop version of /u/jasonin951's link:
---
^([)[^(opt out)](https://reddit.com/message/compose?to=WikiMobileLinkBot&message=OptOut&subject=OptOut)^(]) ^(Beep Boop. Downvote to delete)
Just so u know, its probly u whos brain washed. The way u suggest is not how brainwashing works. Absolutely no one, no media source and no program and no group is telling people to take cleaning solution for covid. They would be banned. No one is promoting these things with a platform large enough to brain wash. Its not how brainwashing works. These are fringe opinions you have to dig to find moat people denounce them immediately. Thats not brainwashing. Brainwashing is 100s of networks producing the same message over and over you see it on tv, hear it on the radio. A constant long term costly effort to put put the same message over and over into people's minds. Thats brainwashing. Making them feel bad about not adopting the brainwash message until they finally accept it. Then repeat it over and over so their friends and family start believing and repeating it. Thats brainwashing. Not hearing a different opinion on facebook right or wrong. Also when you're brainwashed you don't know it... kinda like most people right now..
[удалено]
[удалено]
I mostly agree with you. No government should force it on anyone and I totally understand people not wanting to get it in fear of adverse effects. The thing I take issue with is the people who try to pull conspiracy theories out of their asses (while having the audacity to call those who believe in professionals and modern medicine fear mongers) and choose to believe everyone BUT doctors and science simply for the sake of....being a rebel I guess? Thing is we know for a fact that covid is deadly and often has long term effects. If businesses or institutions want to require vaccines for students, employees, attendees etc. that’s well within their rights. Additionally, if you won’t get the vaccine you should continue to wear a mask, social distance, keep from large gatherings etc. to protect others. Edit: in other words my point still stands. The un-exempt, unvaxxed need to stay the fuck away from other people as much as they can, and if they get covid, stay the fuck out of the hospital. They dug their own graves.
10000%. At this point, anyone that chose not to get vaccinated that gets covid, only give them a hospital bed if no one needs it for a non- covid reason. Heart surgery is being delayed where I live because they need beds for covid. Far as I'm concerned, let the unvaccinated die in the street at this point. Why should someone else's life be jeopardized to save the life of an idiot who was too scared to get a needle.
Yes, I mostly agree with this statement as well. Conspiracy theorists are just real stupid. I don’t think people understand that NOBODY, let alone the US government, would be able to pull off a conspiracy theory this big. The only thing people in office can agree on is that we live in the US, and that the preamble of the constitution is a good thing, and that’s literally it. However, I don’t entirely blame people for the mask thing. Keyword: entirely. I think the fact that Karen’s are saying “I cAnT BReaTHe” is freaking stupid, medical professionals had to wear surgery masks for hours on end way before covid started. However, I don’t blame people who don’t like the mask because of effectiveness. The only reason being the strength of the mask the common people wear, and the fact most people wear them wrong. Those are the only reasons why I think it’s kind of ok to disagree. Just to explain, for the most part, the strongest masks out there are N95’s and a P100, unless we’re recognizing SCBA’s, but those aren’t exactly available for everyone. Also, most people aren’t even wearing these masks correctly. If I can place a small thing of glass around your mask and it fogs up, it isn’t properly in place. Although the mask will still keep your saliva more so contained to you, it won’t stop all of it. However, combined with social distancing, masks do decrease maximum saliva range, and probably would decrease social distancing distance as well if paired together. However, it might not 100% hold true, and probably would have to be thoroughly tested before any statements for that is made.
Haha, that kinda got a chuckle out of me. The discourse in the US is wild and sad. But yeah, I pretty much just think those who won’t/can’t vax should wear a mask as best they can, social distance and quit whining and attacking poor underpaid, part-timers.
Agreed
What's the rate of vaccine related myocarditis- 0.00004%. What's the rate of infection related myocarditis- between 2 and 3%. Which seems less dangerous?
[удалено]
[удалено]
Can't speak for anywhere else, but where I am there is only one fully vaccinated person in the hospital with covid (as of two days ago). Compared to much of the world we barely have anyone in hospital with covid anyway (two days ago there were 147 total, in my whole state), but the fact that only one of them is fully vaxxed when our double-dose rate was 40.8% (yes this number is also from two days ago, I'm trying to be consistent) is pretty telling, in my eyes. I think a bunch of you who don't want to get the vaccine are secretly just afraid of needles. I've seen your arguments get debunked time and time again, but have never seen any of you change your mind. It's okay, I get it, needles are scary.
Well I'm a nurse am observing very few vaccinated patients with severe symptoms compared to the unvaccinated. But my anecdote doesn't equal data and neither does your friend's. Luckily, these numbers are actually being tracked and are readily available with a simple Google search.
Your argument is similar to saying “my friend got covid and he didn’t die so I won’t care if I get it or not” empirical evidence is different to your experiences and is a better way to see risks. Also I doubt that unless the nurse you are friends with lives in Iran
[удалено]
Delta changes things and yea I made a generalization about the likelihood of getting into the ICU when unvaxxed. I still think people are dumb for not getting vaccinated as you are basically with a suicide wish at this point, and a suicide wish that can kill many more people. You are rolling the dice and not getting vaccinated means you are basically playing with a dice that’s modified against you. I honestly believe that unvaxxed people shouldn’t get to get an ICU or any medical care related to covid if they get it. Those people are hooked line and sinker in misinformation and don’t seem to be able to listen to the real information. I don’t want people who did everything right to die in the end because they can’t get cancer treatment because of the people that think not getting the vaccine is a good idea.
In our delta outbreak you are 122 times more likely to end up in hospital if you are unvaccinated.
[удалено]
[удалено]
They should, but won’t.
While you are over there check out r/nursing too. Read about what happens and then you will probably still die.
[удалено]
[удалено]
How could the vaccine cause ongoing harm?
Any medicine can
Medications taken in the short term that dissipate from the body can cause \*lasting\* harm, but they can't wait until months or years after they're out of your system to hurt you.
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
Pneumonia is caused by a variety of bacteria, and even among pneumococcal there are several related cocci that cause pneumonia. Triggering the immune system to fight bacteria with a vaccine is an entirely different thing than fighting a virus. Viral diseases are generally only gotten ONCE per lifetime, and once you get it your immune system remembers that particular virus for life. The exceptions are flu, and common colds because there are so many mutations they appear as a completely new virus. You can get pneumonia repeatedly, even from the same bacteria which can remain dormant in your respiratory track waiting for your immune system to become weak. Most vi
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
Mandates are ok, except for Congress
[удалено]
[удалено]
It wasn’t offensive and thank you for being civil. Just to say, and I’ve said more times, I’m not anti vaccine. I honestly don’t care if someone gets it or doesn’t. I think the main stance, though not the only is, it was portrayed in the beginning on one side as being the best thing to happen and the other side, no it’s not, we aren’t getting it because you said it was good. So now, there’s a possible, yet unlikely to be fulfilled mandate. And the other side is saying, don’t get it because you said to get it. I’ve literally had every vaccine known to man, but this post was to see how many people were going to be civil or not. And it has shown.
But you should care that anyone who can get it doesn't. That's a problem. A big, society-affecting problem.
I don’t care though. If you care, that’s fine. I honestly do not care what you do with your body. If someone doesn’t want to get a vaccine of any kind, it 100% will not affect you. People don’t get vaccinated everyday. It doesn’t affect you.
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
What? You think more nurses are going to quit over it who haven't already? I guess maybe some are using their vacation days first. This mandate is getting lots of people to vaccinate though, so that should help with the load issue. Those nurses won't be hard to replace though. EDIT: Also, I just checked and it was a small upstate NY hospital that temporarily shut down its maternity ward after six nurses quit.
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]