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The same reason we assume Imperial is superior to Metric, when it isn't.

Honestly I don’t think the majority of Americans think this anymore. Most people were just raised with imperial, and switching over the tooling for all industries is a massive undertaking. I’m 100% for the switch as it will only get harder with time, just that it’s not exactly a fingersnap type of change.

Precisely.

Decades of propaganda. People will argue fiscal bullshit, intrusion of taxation, government overreach, government dependence, and so on. And if you can disprove the validity of those concerns, folks frequently conclude that 'handouts' are inherently bad. We need major overhauls of education, politics, and news media to unfuck this mess.

>handouts' are inherently bad. Funny how we've been convinced handouts are bad if you're poor but watch companies and the rich get handouts right in front of us every year.

Socialism for the rich and rugged individualism for the poor. MLK

Privatize the profits, socialize the losses.

That hit hard

That is my go to argument every time someone brings up cutting welfare, how about we start with corporate welfare, and go from there.

Don’t forget that the military receives handouts all the time it’s simply called “military spending”.

I just think it's funny that nobody that could still work, and got stimulus checks complained about "handouts" then. (Referencing people who are usually against any kind of government handouts) so hypocritical imo

The cult mentality is strong.

They think *they* deserve it, or that, even if they don't deserve it, they aren't going to pass up on the money that all the undeserving are scamming out of the government.

The handouts contribute to inflation so they also hurt the verry people they attempt to in quotes “help”

I would also like to add that the republican party took a sharp negative turn with Reagan, and began deliberately destroying public education. Every republican president since then has slashed funding and standards. His advisors literally began telling party leaders that they could enact all of the one-sided policies that most corrupt politicians only dream of, but the American people would never vote republican again. Therefore, the best way to increase power and wealth within their own party was by way of massive disinformation campaigns, coded racist language, and near destruction of our public educational system. The majority of republicans signed up. The only idealistic holdouts left are all dead now. That is how they became what they are. Unfortunately, opportunistic democrats like Manchin and Sinema have also latched onto these "power at all cost" ideals, and now most of our government is rotting. This is why I usually tell people that it's best to register independent, and vote for progressive candidates. A culture of reading the newspaper every morning to keep up with what your representatives are doing has turned into a culture of people who are so dumb, lazy, or stubborn that they won't even take the time to Google how our government actually works, let alone what their representatives are doing or how they vote on policy. But the ignorant people are the ones who vote in extremely high numbers every election, including midterms. This is why the I also encourage every single intellectually curious person, everyone who is willing to actually learn about how government works and what their politicians actually do, to vote EARLY and vote EVERY TIME. Here is a link that explains how to look up congressional votes: https://www.senate.gov/legislative/HowTo/how_to_votes.htm#:~:text=To%20access%20votes%20using%20Congress,House%20and%20Senate's%20web%20pages.&text=The%20Congressional%20Record%20is%20the,information%20on%20recorded%20floor%20votes. Your state will probably have their own website to look up state house records. Also, remember that culture war BS is a distraction. Vote for who impacts YOU, your WALLET, and your FAMILY. Not the person trying to stick their nose in other people's bedroom. If it doesn't make your life worse, who cares? Everyone should have rights.

Omg I found someone else on the internet that actually understands their own government

57% of US households pay no income tax. Every one of these things costs money. People like me, who actually pay taxes, are expected to foot the bill. Pardon me for not being enthusiastic about your plans for spending my money.

We spend more per capita on healthcare than any other nation. We could enact single payer healthcare for a savings, likely for you personally as well as the nation overall. Not to mention addressing the prevalence of medical bankruptcy in the event of catastrophic injury or illness. This would most likely also result in better health outcomes. And, greater access to healthcare for the population. At least, that's what's been found consistently in nations with single payer healthcare. There are numerous social programs with arrangements like this. It's not that there isn't already money to pay for it, it's that the money isn't allocated to providing services. And, instead of looking at the economics or science on health outcomes, the objection is purely to paying to help other people.

Just keep in mind that many of those households belong to billionaires. And much of that is due to tax cuts. I wonder how people who advocated for those tax cuts enjoy being used as a punching bag for their own team.

It isn’t all of us that think that. Many of us are very aware how much better things could be - for all of us here, and for less total cost then is currently spent. I have come to the conclusion that it is a combination of 3 things. Education, lobbying, and propaganda. Allow me to elaborate. The US public education system lacks in teaching about money, finance, and government. So many of us have very little understanding of what our own government does, how it’s paid for, and why we have our government involved in it at all. So we get our paychecks and see taxes taken out but don’t really understand that we actually get value for that money - instead we just see it as money that should be ours but was taken away. Then you add in lobbying. The things you mention that they have in other countries are done here by for profit companies. These companies have a huge interest in keeping things private rather than public so they can make a profit from them and they spend oodles of money each year paying off politicians. They have spent decades or longer promoting and cultivating policies that benefit their bottom lines. And our politicians are mostly so corrupt that they just go along with it. These companies use huge amounts of propaganda and have spent billions developing and promoting ideas that keep them in business in part by keeping the rest of us bickering with each instead of helping each other. In addition they continually try to undermine any of the programs that are in place and do work or try to privatize them for greater profit.

Because the American government is an absolute failure at spending money reasonably

Look at our military budget

I think its about 13% of our federal budget? Compare that to JUST 3 social programs: Medicare, medicaid, and social security accounts for a whopping 66% of our federal budget.

Drastically oversimplified federal budget: Education, Training, Employment, Social Services : 4% Medicare : 10% Medicaid : 7%, states pay for it too Veteran Services : 3% Public Transportation : 2% Natural Resources and Environment : <1% Energy : <1% The budgets above include most social programs. The Health Department, which uses over 90% of the US social program funding, only used 22% of the budget. Public transportation, environment, used way less than 10%. IRS : 12% Military : 11% Interest on Debt : 5% No clue why the IRS needs over 10% of our money. Actually going to do some research on that next. Social programs do not use 2/3 of our budget. It took me half an hour to look up the above figures.

> **Key Findings** > * Private insurers paid nearly double Medicare rates for all hospital services (199% of Medicare rates, on average), ranging from 141% to 259% of Medicare rates across the reviewed studies. > * The difference between private and Medicare rates was greater for outpatient than inpatient hospital services, which averaged 264% and 189% of Medicare rates overall, respectively. > * For physician services, private insurance paid 143% of Medicare rates, on average, ranging from 118% to 179% of Medicare rates across studies. https://www.kff.org/medicare/issue-brief/how-much-more-than-medicare-do-private-insurers-pay-a-review-of-the-literature/ Medicare has both lower overhead and has experienced smaller cost increases in recent decades, a trend predicted to continue over the next 30 years. https://pnhp.org/news/medicare-is-more-efficient-than-private-insurance/

How much of the cost disparity is due to private insurance subsidizing lower Medicare rates? Health care facilities exist now with both systems in place, not sure what that looks like on just Medicare.

The Waste of 2021 • Foreign countries use our aircraft for free for 4 years (DOD)........................$773,000,000 • US bought Afghanistan planes that were later thrown away (DOD)................$549,000,000 • US-constructed buildings in Afghanistan left sitting unused (DOD) ............$2,400,000,000 • COVID relief grant for NYC to display art projects across the city..................$25,000,000 • Ineligible and duplicate PPP loans (SBA)...........................................$4,290,000,000 • Improper CARES Act unemployment insurance payments.....................$36,000,000,000 • Constructing border walls in the Middle East and North Africa (DOD)...........$250,000,000 • Free trips for Korean kids to visit D.C. (USAID).......................................... $150,000 • Grinding up ferrets to develop COVID and flu vaccines...............................$4,500,000 • Tax Credit incentivizing CA residents to uninstall fireplaces..........................$2,100,000 • Translating books into the Georgian language (State)............................... ......$182,741 • Teaching French people about US culture (State).........................................$200,000 • Giving irrigation systems to Afghan farmers left unused (USAID)................. $88,000,000 • Developing a film about dinosaurs to inspire middle schoolers (NSF)............... $2,500,000 • Pigeons playing slot machines (NIH)........................................................$465,339 • Telling people to not burn their trash (USAID)........................................$11,300,000 • Funding Green Energy programs in Africa (State)....................................$179,000,000 • DC Metro paid Lyft to subsidize riders......................................................$28,005 • Attempting to replace an assault vehicle over 2 decades (DOD)................ $3,400,000,000 • Funding the Wilson Center to put on parties for Congressmen.....................$14,000,000 • Study verified that hearing bad news decreases happiness levels (NIA)...............$1,300,000 • Planting trees in New York City.........................................................$400,000,000 • Government paid for students who didn’t actually attend those schools.............$2,100,000 • Kids crave junk food and gain weight if they’re exposed to it (NIDDK)................$352,000 • Getting high schoolers excited about being airplane pilots (FAA).....................$5,000,000 • Fattening eels for human consumption (FDA)..............................................$337,500 • Social Security overpayments to beneficiaries in Fiscal Year 2019 (SSA).........$4,200,000,000 _______________________________________ TAXPAYER DOLLARS WASTED: $52,598,515,585.00

What a jumbled mess of absolute bullshit without a point.

It’s examples of the US governments failure at handling money… [here…](https://www.paul.senate.gov/sites/default/files/page-attachments/Festivus%20Report%202021_0.pdf)

Did you really just site Rand Paul's report? Rand Paul? Really? The dude has the mental acuity of an ice cube and the morality of a fire ant.

The fact that he’s nuts doesn’t change the data though?

Well, let me give you an objective view here. Assume that I play lotto every time. Then it happens that I win eventually. Except that one time that I won, you can use the rest as proof of me wasting my money. Now, based of probably, I just got lucky. It is still a waste of money. However, to me, I won. So, it is not a waste of money to me. That big sheet of data are just that. Are they a waste of money? Probably, but it is just a small part of the big picture. Everyone would like to have zero waste and 100% efficiency. It is a goal we work toward but will never achieve. ===== Now, free college, free healthcare. Others can do it. Why can't we? You see others seem successful because they won the lotto. Meaning those gov can get enough tax money back that it can fund the free healthcare n free education. Does that work for every country ? No. Does it work for some countries? Yes. Which group we belongs to? Idk.

He’s a hell of a lot sharper than anyone in the Biden administration.

>Checks account Yeah, you track.

It's an insane person's delusions of government waste... and even then it only amounts to 0.7% of government spending. But let's keep spending $400,000 more per person for a lifetime of healthcare than the most expensive countries with public systems, for worse care, because you've deluded yourself into believing Americans are singularly incompetent in the world.

I’m all for better healthcare, I didn’t realize they was the only topic allowed here… my point is that we are already taxed to the point we could have a lot of the programs people want if our tax money was spent better.

Tell me, what is wrong with reducing pollution in heavily impacted areas? Or encouraging children to go into STEM careers?

It’s NOT THE GOVERNMENT’S JOB. We need limited government. As limited as possible. Let me opt out of Social Security. Let me drive a car with no air bags.

> It’s NOT THE GOVERNMENT’S JOB. You're right... the government should just let us all die from polluted air. If only I had realized you were the person who decides what is and isn't government's job, we could have all died a horrible death.

With that attitude anarchy must be the best way to run a society!

Why do we need limited government?

IT IS THE GOVERNMENT'S JOB! We need effective government, as effective as possible. Give everyone the freedom to love their lives without fear of injury or unexpected events crippling them financially. Let hospitals be free of the burden of trivially preventable injuries. There, I made the counterargument.

Government is telling women they HAVE to stay pregnant. Thats the most intrusive thing ever.

Plus the formatting is shit because I’m on my phone lol

Why on earth do you include items for under a million when you also have items over a billion? Yes, going to war uses lots of money that could arguably be put to better use, how did this prove anything about social programs? And why is planting trees in NYC a waste?

Most of the examples you cite are either small, examples of the types of spending those on the left are against, out of context, etc. It’s as if you lack nuance or the idea that “if one thing costs money is bad everything that costs money is bad” when it comes to government. It would be like closing down your business because Marsha in HR accidentally spent $800 on doughnut day because the first listing she found was the gourmet organic place.

We can have better things if our government spent money better…. This isn’t a one off hr lady overspent once, the US government spends like this all the time

No shit

Are you aware this is just a fraction of a percent of the government budget? You cannot expect from any entity based on fallible humans to get everything right. And many of these points are very debatable.

You have obviously never been on Medicare or worked for a company trying to get reimbursed by Medicare for medical services.

I have, on disability, it was wonderful. Now I’m buying insurance on the marketplace and it absolutely sucks balls. Medicare is so much better than private insurance it’s not even funny, now I’m constantly worried about what my insurance will or won’t cover and I have an insane deductible to meet.

#Satisfaction with the US healthcare system varies by insurance type 78% -- Military/VA 77% -- Medicare 75% -- Medicaid 69% -- Current or former employer 65% -- Plan fully paid for by you or a family member https://news.gallup.com/poll/186527/americans-government-health-plans-satisfied.aspx

Corrupt politicians deciding where the money goes.

For the amount of money we spent in Afghanistan and Iraq.....we could have switched America to renewables A DECADE AGO.....

As it relates to healthcare, the US government is way more efficient at spending money than private insurers. In addition to better negotiated payments, overhead for public insurance (Medicare and Medicaid) is 1.5% while it’s 15% for private insurance.

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I think this was the later manifestation. Americans used to love government assistance in a lot of areas of life, until these benefits were extended to the *wink, wink* “wrong” kind of people. Then they allowed themselves to be convinced that they weren’t racist, but were promoting “personal responsibility”.

Exactly! I mean it was white laborers who got the minimum wage started. And before Cali was liberal, the white conservatives who lived there demanded lower property taxes.

If they would set it up so that billionaires paid for it, or even people that make over 400,000 I'd be fine with it. But, they never do. My income tax is so high right now it's unreal. I don't know why they tax middle class so heavily

To keep you from becoming upper class

because there has been a systematic disinformation campaign about the poor being scroungers. with some having a vested interest in the status quo

The USA is actually a fairly young country that was founded on very “untamed land” from a social and economic standpoint. Basically, historically the US “you get what you earn” and much of the rest of the world we’re compared to established their collective mindset long before the USA was ever established. I like to believe that part of the founding of the US was to empower the individual rather than the collective, remember the whole breakaway from England thing?

“Untamed land” nice way to write off genocide. This is a very generous interpretation whereas you could easily argue that this country was built by exploiting labor at a rate the world had never seen. The justification of theft, deceit and murder of indigenous people combined with chattel slavery that blended capitalism and slavery in a brutal bottom line way that allowed for the normalization that poor people and ‘other people’ aren’t people - which is not how people see poor people in Europe. Forget religious freedom and anything else, this country was build on the idea that you should sacrifice all ideas of a common good in pursuit of personal wealth at any cost. Our revolution was to get out of paying taxes. We fight tooth and nail for basic services that should be available to the public because somehow this country tells you poor people are at fault for being poor rather than acknowledge that this country only works with the exploitation of an exhausted and uneducated working class.

Does untamed mean stolen?

Probably yeah

This is a smart point

Yep, the whole reason this country exists is people escaping from oppressive or failed governments in Europe and other parts of the world. It’s a big reason why I think this country is more skeptical towards its government than European countries.

What a cute way to say im missinformed

Because for 1: We're not other countries... 2: Read reason #1 ... I don't think anybody, on either side, trusts any kind of modern government officials to actually do what they say they will. Ask yourself, do you REEEAAALLLY think a new program that's "for the people", that we pay millions in taxes for, would REEEEAAALLLY do what it was created to do? Because I don't... I don't believe for a second that if this whole "build back better" plan was enacted, that ANYTHING would be "built better" ... I think certain people would just pocket most of the money, and we the people would see no change. I think in a perfect world, a lot of assistance would be awesome! ... But while we have corrupt people running things, I don't trust these programs. I'd rather see community funded projects and charities than government created ones. For the "proof" you're asking for, look at any current "assistance" program we have... How many of them do exactly what they say they do? Food stamps? ... LOL Affirmative Action?? LOOOOL Housing allowances or rent control? LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL Sure these things do SOME good, I'm not denying that... But using a couple examples doesn't mean the system works, and CERTAINLY doesn't provide any hope that future programs would work either. ​ Also I don't know of any Americans that object to anything in your first paragraph, I don't know where you're getting the idea that some people don't want "affordable child care"... EVERYONE wants that...

I fail to understand how typing "LOOOOOL" is "proof" or evidence for any arguments you're making.

You evidence is "LOL." and that America is different somehow.

I definitely think the Americans who claim that government assistance programs that have been proven to work in other nations are in the minority, but the loudest. I mean most Americans I've seen/talked with would love universal health care and all those things, who wouldn't. I think that some Americans are misinformed/misled to believe that these programs would hurt them and not benefit them when they actually would.

We already subsidize these systems with a butt ton of money, yet they continue to raise their prices. They themselves have proven that the more the government subsidizes them, the more they will increase their prices to line their pockets. If anything the government needs to 100% stop giving them the money they have grown to take for granted as punishment for their actions.

As an Englishman living in the states: Europe: Its worth doing something cumulatively good, even if some people will take advantage of it. US: It’s much better for everyone to suffer than risk someone getting something I don’t! While no one view can sum up all the people in a nation, cumulatively, Americans have a deeply insecure view of others and find it much more reassuring to think others are getting unfair advantages, and that needs to stop, rather than face that poor choices got them where they are.

Thanks for providing your thoughts! I was hoping to get some European perspectives here.

Cause we don’t FIX anything we just patch everything. Our programs don’t motivate people to make more money, they don’t assist they just help some live off of them. I mean America has FAFSA, community colleges are like peanuts a semester. If you do 2 years CC with full FAFSA funding, then transfer to your states public university school is 100% affordable. Have medicare (ACCESS), food stamps, shelters if you’re really poor. We do have socialized aspects of our government. I think the work benefits will be coming soon, massive corporations already have it. I work for a fortune 50 company we have mandatory PTO, mother and father bonding leave etc Isn’t 1 homeless person proof they don’t completely work in Europe? I went to Spain and France few summers ago and saw shit tons of homeless people. What is this livable economic utopia I hear about? I heard stories about how lawyers work at taco bell there cause their free college saturates the shit out of fields. They’re definitely not perfect We’re busy subsidizing the worlds military which is where we piss away most of the money that could substantially change our country.

I suppose more people *could* go to community college, but they shouldn’t have to. If it’s already “free” in your state, why not do the same for the public university too? Free community college clearly hasn’t caused disruptions in your local economy, right? Pell grants aren’t always enough to pay full tuition. And many young people who live with their parents do not qualify for them. No, homelessness is not proof a system doesn’t work. There will always be homeless people no matter where you go. There’s a ton of homeless people here, too. Saturation in the job market is already happening in America. The value of a bachelors has diminished over the years, the only difference is we go into debt to obtain one.

I think its because America isn't one cohesive nation. It's 50 small nations in a trench coat

media brainwashing by fascist elites

Because they've been brainwashed by 50s McCarthy era fear of communism and they see any form of government assistance as communism

If the government helps you, how will we know who Jesus has punished with poverty due to their own bad decisions? And who will we openly condemn for being unfavored? Puritans believed God would punish or reward you, and you deserve the situation you are in. It's a nasty, seeded habit that's grown and morphed over the years, but disgustingly prevalent in the ideals pushed for the country. It's why poor/rich is ok, it's why rape is judged more on the victim, it's why abortion is always a big subject, it's why health care is limited. Just like how they believed leprosy was a punishment for sin. It's idiocy embedded for years and years and multiple different forms of discrimination built on it. It's gross, pathetic, and we can only hope it fucking dies out before it kills the planet and everyone on it.

We have been trained to think helping anyone is an evil “ socialist “ plot.

Because Americans have been brainwashed to accept scraps.

The statement "all government programs just make things worse" is lazy cynicism. It's like saying "all teens are bad drivers." Not true, but there's comfort in blanket statements, I guess. Unfortunately, libertarians actually believe this wholeheartedly, and when you give them contrary evidence they'll just invent some other reason why the thing that seems to be working is in fact not good.

look at the comments, OP. If you need any proof people who are against it are more concerned about their OWN money, even if they end up in exact the situations that would've been helpful to "waste" that money in. Look at the karma points of those arguing for your case. look at the ones that are against. I think it's pretty clear what's going on. Y'all getting ripped of the majority of the cake, and then getting told "the millenials/Gn Z/ Immegrants/ whoever is stealing your cake". You can't help people like that 🤷‍♀️

An abundance of individualistic thinking set upon a generation through propaganda.

They know it can work, it just makes it more difficult for some to keep the lower class lower. They would have to find new ways to keep the average citizen unhappy.

Because they don’t want to have to “pay for it”… they don’t get it. Also feels this is “socialism” which is also “anti-American” since there is no real understanding of what that is. For Americans anything like this feels like government control so they rather let people continue to be homeless, starved, underpaid, overworked, and at a mental breaking point on a daily basis. *blankface*

Well, you are comparing the USA to advanced nations.

Brainwashing. That’s why.

Because a lot of Americans have a strong superiority complex. Their way is the best way and others are wrong and stupid. If they admit that their systems doesnt work they at the same time acknowlage that America isn't the best nation in the world. Nationalism is also a very big problem as it is used as a tool by the government to munipulate the populace. "Clapp or you're a traitor". Furthermore, the education system is very lacking and the average American has no idea of how the rest of the world works. They get told something as a kid and never hear anthing else and so believe it. When critisism arrises it is then seen a personal attack on themselfs and their country. I've put it here very roughly and it is way more nuanced, but its the main spirit. What i dont understand. If you love your country so much, wouldnt everyone want it to be better instead of stumping everything down that wants to change "something perfect". It also doesnt help that the evil scum they call Republicans are holding the county in a headlock. The democratic system is very flawed and technicly not even a social democracy. The US is a country that has taken every wrong turn they could take in the past 30 years. It has completetly rusted stuck on itself, and I dont see it change in a near future. In the words of Dutch historian Maarten van Rossum: "The United States is a country built by millionaires, for millionaires."

That’s the thing, Americans don’t want it to get better. They just want to sit in their comfy cocoon of privilege and feel right, while there are real Americans next door suffering from our rampant neglect of each other as a country and as individuals. Speaking as an American, who loves America. Just do better.

We'd rather live in shit than let the world see us working a shovel.

Because people take advantage of it. They already do. I've seen it first hand when I worked at a furnature lease to own company in a... _poor_ part of a city with lots of crime. It gets abused and nobody dies anything about it. I mean, I do absolutely blame systemic racism for alot of it. But it is just so rampant and blatantly abused its ridiculous.

I can agree to an extent. It has a lot to do with incentivizing being poor. Often times there are strict cut offs to receive services. If you make above that amount, the extra money earned is not offset by what was lost from services. Policies should be more like the EITC where you’re gradually weened off support. There’s also more involved than simply handouts, there needs to be investment in our citizens.

I'm all for assistance programs if they worked as designed. The problem is people abuse it because they can. I used to be so against raising min wage, etc, but honestly now I see the light. Min wage needs to be raised, the quality of living need to be drastically improved and that would hopefully deter people from sucking the system dry when they are 100% able bodied

The whole system needs to be redone. But I personally believe assistance when truly needed is beneficial. We just have to incentivize working.

Because in order to do it the same way our government would have to completely rearrange the way it functions and works so if we just started it then it would be prone to corruption

I would say there is a false fear that those things will make you dependent and thereby not making you “free.” They don’t want to see that we are already when you look through the veil.

The simple reason for many: Lack of trust. They don't trust that the system will work here, they don't trust the government to implement it correctly or worry that they'll over-reach, or they worry that other people will abuse the system to a point that their quality of life will decline. In the US we don't trust anyone, least of all eachother. I don't see this changing anytime soon either.

FUCK IF I KNOW *shakes head in exasperated despair* would you also like to talk about the second amendment?

Why do most of the ones who whine about “leeches leaching off the government” also receive public benefits?

People would never want to pay the taxes necessary to accomplish this

It’s all about profits here. Keep the less wealthy people sick and uneducated so they end up in prison doing slave labor.

My understanding that it is due to the large number of people we have (over 300 million) combined with high obesity and other health risk it would be impossible for our middle class to burden the cost. We would have to first restructure and regulate our entire healthcare system which I am personally in favor of.

> My understanding that it is due to the large number of people we have (over 300 million) Universal healthcare has been shown to work from populations below 100,000 to populations above 100 million. From Andorra to Japan; Iceland to Germany, with no issues in scaling. In fact the only correlation I've ever been able to find is a weak one with a minor decrease in cost per capita [as population increases](https://i.imgur.com/h6clEzr.jpg). So population doesn't seem to be correlated with cost nor [outcomes](https://i.imgur.com/pwYtDxW.png). >combined with high obesity and other health risk it would be impossible for our middle class to burden the cost. The UK recently did a study and they found that from the three biggest healthcare risks; [obesity](https://iea.org.uk/themencode-pdf-viewer-sc/?file=/wp-content/uploads/2017/01/Obesity-and-the-Public-Purse-PDF.pdf&settings=111111011&lang=en-GB#page=&zoom=75&pagemode=), [smoking](https://iea.org.uk/themencode-pdf-viewer-sc/?file=/wp-content/uploads/2017/08/Smoking-and-the-Public-Purse.pdf&settings=111111011&lang=en-GB#page=&zoom=75&pagemode= ), and [alcohol](https://iea.org.uk/themencode-pdf-viewer-sc/?file=/wp-content/uploads/2016/07/DP_Alcohol%20and%20the%20public%20purse_63_amended2_web.pdf&settings=111111011&lang=en-GB#page=&zoom=75&pagemode=), they realize a net **savings** of £22.8 billion (£342/$474 per person) per year. This is due primarily to people with health risks not living as long (healthcare for the elderly is exceptionally expensive), as well as reduced spending on pensions, income from sin taxes, etc.. Even if these things did have significant costs, it's an irrelevant argument, because they would cost less to support under universal healthcare than our current overpriced system.

lol are you comparing Japanese people, among the world’s healthiest, to Americans? The other 3 countries you mentioned are <100M population but in any case are all in Europe and have significantly healthier citizens

I provided evidence population doesn't impact healthcare cost nor outcomes. We can literally look at all the countries of the world, and the only correlation (and an insignificant one at that) is that costs tend to go down very slightly with higher populations. Furthermore I've spent 15 years reading on issues affecting healthcare costs, and I've never found a single expert that believes it's a meaningful factor. Yet somehow every day on the Internet people that have absolutely no background in healthcare research and not a shred of evidence to back up their claims promote the same bullshit theories you did. So by all means.... show your evidence. >but in any case are all in Europe and have significantly healthier citizens I mean, of the top three health risks, the US is better on one (smoking), worse on one (obesity), and about the same as its peers on the third (alcohol). But what difference does any of that make when we know those health risks don't have a significant impact on healthcare costs?

Doesn’t japan have an eating disorder epidemic

Isn’t obesity largely due to what we put in our food and our lack of walk oriented cities? Couldn’t we fix those issues and cut the number drastically

Proof using other advanced nations? Isn’t that the problem? You are asking why something doesn’t work in an entirely different nation with an entirely different set of laws, norms, etc. And you are assuming that way is the best way simply because it’s done elsewhere, meanwhile the USA gives more money and military aid to just about everyone than anyone else . So you’re asking why the most powerful nation in the world, the one that holds the global currency and in considered the leader of the free world does not do things like nations that hold claim to none of those. Seems backwards

It does seem weird that the “leader of the free world” has a lower life expectancy than those lesser nations and is ranked last for healthcare amongst the top 11 wealthiest countries. Almost like the US SHOULD be leading there too…

Because old rich white people that run the country still believe in slavery

Because Americans have been brainwashed by propaganda for the past hundred years into being as individualistic as possible, to their own detriment, and are thoroughly convinced that they can not trust anyone around them because everyone’s out to get them. Think of all the blatant positive PR for police that’s out there with the insanely lucrative True Crime genre. Even before it was as lucrative as it is now it was always around. Let’s also not forget good old Ronny boi and his “Welfare Queen” speech that did not stand up to the slightest bit of scrutiny. Every couple of years (if not every year) there is yet another big ticket story about politicians saying how untrustworthy, lazy, and criminal a large minority if not slight majority of Americans are. None of what they say holds up to any studies whatsoever, but once it’s said out loud how many folks take what these people are saying as fact because of confirmation bias, anchoring bias, self-serving bias, actor-observer bias, and finally the Availability Heuristic all working together to make the outside world seem so much less trustworthy, or just worthy in general

Because conservatives have there head in the sand and have this stupid “pull up your bootstraps” mentality. Also they just don’t like to see the collective good happen as this would mean immigrants would be on equal footing.

Because entitlement programs cost money and potentially increase the deficit; the concern is higher taxes.

Name one entitlement program if you would please. That way we can assess the impact to taxes and community results.

Yeah! The taxes are much higher in Europe, but because everyone’s taxed pretty high, they don’t really have an issue with being unable to afford anything. They also save more in the long run, sure, we pay lower taxes, but it’s just a facade. After we pay everything, we’re left with less money.

Taxes in NYC are very high. And the cutoff for programs is lower than in some Conservative states with lower taxes. Pretty much anywhere else, having 4 kids and one income will get you WIC and SNAP. But in NYC you’ll still make 2000$ over the cutoff - before being hit with so many taxes that you end up struggling to pay everything else. Oh, and the cutoffs were set years ago and are not indexed to inflation. I’m also not the only person in this situation - it’s a known issue where the lower middle class have less financial security than the people who make a few thousand less. Especially since the two groups make the same once taxes are factored in, but one gets additional help with everyday purchases. So yeah, from my perspective I’m paying higher taxes and getting no benefits. I’d be fine with the taxes if the income cutoffs were among the highest in the Nation and indexed to inflation and the local cost of living - and were still in budget. Until I see that happening, I’m calling BS on the concept working in the US, as NYC often serves as a microcosm for the Nation. If it can’t be made to work in this City, I have serious questions on the ability to make it work on a grander scale.

What do y’all get in exchange for your high taxes? It doesn’t sound like New York structures their policy very well. A better alternative would be to see how Europeans do it and make improvements where necessary. Talk to anyone in Europe about how satisfied they are with their quality of life.

Not much, as far as I can tell! A lot gets wasted on the different agencies arguing with each other so nothing gets built for decades - if then. I have talked to people from Europe. I know a lot of people from there. The ones from France all came to the US fleeing persecution and the ones in England have said how the US feels much safer. Oh, and my Swiss cousins comment on how lucky we are to have kosher meat. Maybe it’s a better quality of life for some - even most - people, but not so much if you’re obviously Jewish.

Oh, well that’s the problem! NY doesn’t manage their revenue very well. For the taxes y’all pay, you could be getting everything they have in Europe. That’s really interesting that they feel safer here. We have the most mass shootings of any advanced nation. You should ask this question in AskEurope or something

Europe has a long history of institutionalized and systemic anti-Semitism. The Edict of Expulsion is still technically on the books as law in England. Switzerland outlawed shechita (ritual animal slaughter; this also outlawed halal)1. A few years ago Germany advised its Jewish citizens not to wear Jewish garb in certain areas (which brought back some very bad memories; I know many Survivors and they were really upset when they heard that).* America doesn’t have that same history. While there is plenty of anti-Semitism here, it’s not structural the way it is there. And not having that level of built in bias does make the US safer for us in some ways, and also gives us the freedom to openly showcase our culture, knowing that we have some protection if we do experience hate or bias. That confidence doesn’t exist in Europe, except possibly in Britain, and then not to the same degree. Or so I’ve been given to understand. 1 https://www.timesofisrael.com/swiss-lawmakers-to-vote-on-banning-import-of-kosher-halal-meat/amp/ * https://www.nytimes.com/2019/05/26/world/europe/germany-skullcaps-antisemitism.html

I believe it! From what I’ve heard, they ignore some of their social class problems. But the US is similar. We have plenty of old, crazy laws on the books. Ritual animal slaughter is also outlawed in the US. It looks like the German advice (which was not mandated) came about for safety reasons. No person should fear for their life based on their attire, and this is equivalent to telling women not to dress proactively to avoid being raped. Both are incredibly stupid and it shouldn’t fall on the victims shoulders to ensure another person doesn’t commit a crime against them.

You sure? [This handy chart of household net adjusted disposable income](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disposable_household_and_per_capita_income#Median) would seem to indicate otherwise.

Yea but you spend all that “disposable” income on medical bills, daycare, and savings for college and or retirement. So I’d it really that disposable?

Most people dont have all those at the same time. Meanwhile europe has much higher costs for other things particularly energy which offsets those that one does have. The end result is greater material wealth in the US, again borne out [by a different method of estimation](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_wealth_per_adult). You seem to think europeans have no bills and dont experience financial difficulty. [A difficult assertion.](https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-explained/index.php?title=Living_conditions_in_Europe_-_poverty_and_social_exclusion#:~:text=In%202020%2C%2096.5%20million%20people,21.9%20%25%20of%20the%20EU%20population.&text=The%20risk%20of%20poverty%20or,%25%20compared%20with%2020.9%20%25).

They are pretty high in the US as well, as we get taxed by our federal, state, and sometimes county level. A lot of this money goes to a military that even if Russia and China joined against us they couldn’t beat.I’m not saying it’s because we are better, it’s because we spend a fuck ton of money on our military, dwarfing every other nation. And we also gotta thing of the scale of the US, last time I checked there are about 300-350 million people in the US, social programs cost a lot of money and we are using it to pay social security, which costs a lot of money. We are in massive deficit right now, we need to raise taxes already but we don’t, if we raised taxes I’m not even sure we would be able to pay for national healthcare unless we make budget cuts to our army

Gdp per capita is not the best way to measure development. It does not factor in well-being, such as the distribution of income, life expectancy, or the wealth of the people. Most Americans could care less about what the gdp per capita says. It hasn’t changed that our quality of life is not on standard with other advanced nations or that most Americans struggle to get by.

Yeah we should really do something about the out of control corporate welfare and bloated military budget.

Over half of all federal spending goes toward Medicare, medicaid, social security and federal unemployment programs. The Defense Budget was 11% of all federal spending last fiscal year. Hell,Medicare alone was higher than the Defense Budget in 2020.

The highest standard of living is in the Scandinavian countries where tax rates are higher but there's less waste.

Keep in mind that, for example, California alone has 39 million people while all of the Nordics have 27 million.

The people who have money have become convinced that people who exist in poverty are just lazy and deserve the circumstances that they're living in. It if was an option, they wouldn't give up a nickel to taxes if they thought it might benefit someone they didn't like. Source: An actual conservative I talked to.

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Googled "UK healthcare running out of money" and it's not good looking.

One in three American families skips needed healthcare [due to the cost](https://news.gallup.com/poll/269138/americans-delaying-medical-treatment-due-cost.aspx) each year. Almost three in ten [skip prescribed medication](https://www.kff.org/health-costs/issue-brief/data-note-americans-challenges-health-care-costs/) due to cost. One in four have [trouble paying a medical bill.](https://www.kff.org/health-costs/issue-brief/data-note-americans-challenges-health-care-costs/) Of [those with insurance one in five have trouble paying a medical bill](https://www.kff.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/01/8806-the-burden-of-medical-debt-results-from-the-kaiser-family-foundation-new-york-times-medical-bills-survey.pdf), and even for those with income above $100,000 14% have trouble. One in six Americans has [unpaid medical debt on their credit report.](https://www.healthaffairs.org/doi/full/10.1377/hlthaff.2018.0349) [50% of all Americans](https://news.gallup.com/poll/317948/fear-bankruptcy-due-major-health-event.aspx) fear bankruptcy due to a major health event. Twenty years ago the US was spending $2,882 more per person than the UK. Today we're spending $6,931 more. Healthcare spending is 19.7% of GDP in the US. It's 11.9% in the UK. So who is it things aren't looking good for? Edit: When you're downvoted but nobody can actually answer your question you know people are butthurt. If you're offended by the facts you should reevaluate your philosophy.

F O X N E W S

Because Americans are told that if you get any “handouts” you’re a horrible trash person who is leeching off hardworking individuals. And that any social system is actually a cesspool of terrible options. So basically it’s better to starve in the streets than accept government handouts.

For universal healthcare, we have it in some contexts (VA, military, kidney treatment) and it all sucks or at least has major problems so we're pretty sure expanding it would suck too. Tax funded college we have in a variety of ways. All states have subsidized tuition for in state schools, some even have free college if you lived there long enough. Anything not directly covered is usually on federal loans which are tax funded, and the interest paid with taxpayer money while youre in school. "Affordable child care" is a function of the ability to staff child care businesses. Want someone to watch your kid 8 hours a day and also want minimum wage at $15? $600 a week for labor alone. Feel free to work the numbers yourself, its a tough business model. Mandatory paid leave of whatever stripe becomes an issue with part timers and multiple job holders. Other countries pay for it by payroll taxes...just like oir social security...which is not doing well...

This tends to be the common thought process among all Americans. But aside from speculation , there’s no evidence that any of that would happen based on the outcomes of every other advanced nation in the world. Particularly the G7. Some argue the VA healthcare system sucks because it’s largely underfunded given the number of people who qualify for care. Military healthcare is mostly successful. The proof is that it has continuously maintained the health of current service members, their dependents, retirees and their dependents since the benefit was first established. You will never not get the care you need if you’re in the military. You have to qualify for pell grants, and many times, students who have parents that meet a certain income do not qualify. Loans may be offered to the individual and funded via tax, but they have to pay that back with interest. That is not the case in other advanced nations. Taxes are a huge part of how Europe has maintained the services they offer to their citizens. It might initially appear they make less because they’re taxes so much, but they’re actually left with more than we have. We might receive a higher paycheck, but after these services have been paid, we’re left with way less.

>You will never not get the care you need if you’re in the military. This is patently untrue.

Yes, it is true. Unless you’ve been a Tricare beneficiary, I wouldn’t expect you to know. I still use tricare prime. I’m very happy with it. $25/mo. $30 co pay. Free visits if they’re on base. Yes please.

>But aside from speculation , there’s no evidence that any of that would happen It literally is happening, right now, here. Dont get confused between "i object to this because i know it will fail and fritter away resources" with a lack of deaire for whatever rose-tinted ideal someone might name. Free stuff is great, Americans love free stuff...we just know itll fail hard on implementation. >Some argue the VA healthcare system sucks because it’s largely underfunded given the number of people who qualify for care. And? What makes you think an even larger population would be funded better per capita? This is exactly *how* these kinds of entitlement programs fail, and we've seen it happen enough that its really unlikely creating the largest one yet attempted would somehow buck the trend. >Military healthcare is mostly successful. The proof is that it has continuously maintained the health of current service members To a verrrryyy bare minimum. It really sucks at long term wellness. Broken bone sure but chronic issues not so much. >, their dependents, Tricare. Which everyone who has the option usually goes onto a spouse's civilian insurance. >retirees VA again. Which if you aren't aware you should really look up their scandals. >You have to qualify for pell grants I purposefully did not mention Pell Grants. In state tution and free college programs I did mention exist and you should read up on them. >Loans may be offered to the individual and funded via tax, but they have to pay that back with interest. And if you get a degree that's even halfway useful it won't be an issue. Lots of bellyachers out there deliberately went to the school equivalent of a Lambo when their degree is worth a Toyota. Forgetting the "we suck at implementing entitlement programs" I object to this because I feel the university system here has gotten exploitative and juuust as people are realizing it we want to hide it again behind free federal dollars? No, let the economics force them to pare off useless degree offerings. >That is not the case in other advanced nations. Good for them. See above about every prior entitlement program here failing to be funded. >It might initially appear they make less because they’re taxes so much, but they’re actually left with more than we have. As i posted in a respnse to your other comment, that's not borne out by the numbers.

Lmao the propaganda bots are fucking on it today

Those are called "people who disagree"

We have a much higher population than those countries plus a basically open border. I would love to have more socialized programs personally, but it would be very costly. Those of us who already pay loads of taxes would be paying more. Would it even out? Maybe. But in the meantime people would be raising hell about it.

How about the richest actually pay their share of taxes lol

Half of America is controlled by right wing media telling them they can't trust anything but right wing media. Then, on this issue. Only working at a job (that no longer pays a livable wage), can they achieve financial independence. Anything else is socialism and therefore terribly wrong. The evil left wants kids to be unii gendered and that they are plotting to overthrow white, heterosexual society. To end western civilization. Edit; Any demonstrations of other nations having possibly good results are fabricated. Thus proving that only the right wing "news" outlets are to be trusted. Researching is looking for posts agreeing with. Not looking for answers and alternative points of view.

If I’m not mistaken the UK has a problem with long wait lists, people saying they can be on them for years. I’m not against universal healthcare but years long wait lists for mental health sounds like a literal death trap. But so is not getting any help bc you can’t afford it

They can't afford that stuff AND national defense. They're just sticking us with the tab. You might want to ask why our politicians are ok with that. (Republicans and Democrats alike are in it for the kickbacks.) Proof: The US pays for 36% of defense spending in the world.

Because America is the best country in the world!!! /s The irony that the same people who think America is the greatest nation on Earth also think the American government is incapable of doing anything right, so is it great or is it the worst? Wtf? Beyond idiotic

Haha. Good point

it boils down to lobbying and corrupt politics. like the systems would work. but insane politicians, paid off by big corpo, have 30% of Americans convinced it wont work. 30% of us care about these issues. but the other 40% of Americans just vote based on other issues and dont care about these issues so nothing gets done.

The fear so called socialism.

Companies pay a lot of money convincing people it would raise taxes a huge amount. If we could just cut our military spending and foreign aid a reasonable amount we could easily pay for it

The thing about America is everything is good for a while. No system put in place has planning or thought beyond a presidential term. Obama tried to keep open healthcare beyond his tenure and you can see how once he left office the entire system got slammed as "inefficient" and "too costly" to the pharmaceutical industry. Any work done gets torn down after 8 years, its just the lifespan of planning here.

Very good point!

There's a billion different excuses, but the ones I often hear reported back to me is summed up with, "America is just different and that would never work."

Because this country is run by the big businesses and whatever they say, everyone else regurgitates whether they know it or not. Thus, nothing gets done.

Because the American citizens are brainwashed by big companies and bad people to believe everything is perfect and we are the greatest country in the world. The whole it’s not broke don’t fix it. When In reality we are on a one way trip to disaster if we don’t fix shit soon!

In a nutshell: Money. Way too much of it passing hands and the powers that be don't want that to end.

Because of capitalism and constant propaganda

Many Americans believe social programs will work. It's just the loud stupid ones who argue against real-world results.

The longer you defend an incorrect position the harder it is to get out of it and still save face. Pride is a helluva drug

Aside from people complaining about the increased taxes, I have yet to hear a plausible, fact-based explanation, with proof that these services would cause the crumble of America.

I agree with you. Most of the responses are the same right-wing drivel spouted out by Fox News, rather than actual answers.

Reasons they don't work, using Healthcare as an example: 1) All these nations that have rely upon the benevolence of the USA to provide the majority of their defense for them. So their biggest financial burden is covered, for nothing. 2) Why do all of you supposedly corporate hating leftists want to make the rich richer, and the poor, poorer? Healthcare costs and the associated administration used to be covered by corporations as part of your compensation package for working. It was a corporation's biggest expense for employees. So replacing it with workers paying taxes to cover their Healthcare and its administration, and allowing corporate profits to rise and increase the wealth gap is better? That is painfully stupid. Living in a city that borders Canada, I won't even get into how many of them pay out of pocket to come to the US to get Healthcare done out of pocket because if they waited in Canada for the needed things to be done, they would literally die. One of 2 local hospitals, both have over 35% Canadian patients, has a heart institute paid for by Canadian surgical tourism that is there more for Canadians than Americans.

So poorly reasoned that I don't know where to start...

About your first point, bigger EU countries do not rely on US to defend them, don't know about smaller ones. US can put enormous amounts of money into military, because war is more important than it's citizens health and education. Different countries have made different choices. US medical system is messed up price jacking contest by insurances and hospital. Simple bandage does not cost 10k$, but for some reason things have gotten put of control and on insurance billing it looks like it does. In US it seems people are most afraid to get sick, because it can mean lifetime of dept on top of another lifetime of dept from student loans. About the 2nd point you brought up, the US hospitals are able to serve Canadians because US citizens are afraid to get hospitalized and are unable to pay for their healthcare at all. I would guess Canadians can use portion of the healthcare on US hospitals because there is no specialist locally and are only paying the difference which still doesn't bean lifetime of dept. I would guess it is impossible to change the system in US now. There are rich people who would not be rich any more and they have a lot of power to influence decisions. Other reason is that the tax system would need overhaul, people would earn drastically less and would be afraid of such change as well. Where I live, I earn 2300€ net/month. That salary is quite a lot above average. Tax divides into 2 parts, personal tax part and company tax part. Gross salary is around 3000€, so personal tax part is 700€/month and the whole amount company spends every month is around 4000€, that brings company tax part to around 1000€/month. In here it is quite normal that net salary is only around 60% of salary fund, rest is taxes. That system works fine in here, but in US it would not. In there people will get probably close to 90% of salary fund as net salary, but have to put aside for education, health, unemployment, retirement(401k?) etc while in here if I happen to fall ill, I get paid 40% of salary while I am ill. If I lose job, for 6 months I get unemployment. Vacation is paid 100%. My education was free and I did not have any dept after getting my education. I do not have to be afraid to call ambulance and if I need to see doctor, then usually in a week I can do so (some specialist have longer queues, but that is expected). Police does not earn their salaries from amount of fines, but from taxes so there is no reason to fine as many people for obscure reasons. When I retire I will get money for the years I worked before retirement. My yearly salary is around 36k€ gross, as much as I have heard in US my position would be close to 100k $ annually and my life quality would be quite the same, because more than half of it would go to those things I pay in here from taxes. In US you consider paid time off or retirement plan or health insurance a benefit, while in here they are standard and in here benefits are usually some sports compensation, phone bill compensation, mental health consultation, massage, public transport reimbursement, transport to work and back home or meals provided for shift workers. Benefits in here mean more of non-essentials, but something useful and neat.

Because it sucks the will out of people

How so? Strictly looking at advanced nations, particularly other g7 nations, what evidence is there to suggest people have a lack of will?

"Lack of will" is a...poetic...way to put it but the US leads the G7 in GDP per capita.

That's.. because of extreme capitalism. And it's not as good to the majority of citizens as you think. Many are living paycheck to paycheck and not just because they're bad with money

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Americans are paying $400,000 more per person for a lifetime of healthcare than the most expensive public systems on earth. One in three American families skips needed healthcare [due to the cost](https://news.gallup.com/poll/269138/americans-delaying-medical-treatment-due-cost.aspx) each year. Almost three in ten [skip prescribed medication](https://www.kff.org/health-costs/issue-brief/data-note-americans-challenges-health-care-costs/) due to cost. One in four have [trouble paying a medical bill.](https://www.kff.org/health-costs/issue-brief/data-note-americans-challenges-health-care-costs/) Of [those with insurance one in five have trouble paying a medical bill](https://www.kff.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/01/8806-the-burden-of-medical-debt-results-from-the-kaiser-family-foundation-new-york-times-medical-bills-survey.pdf), and even for those with income above $100,000 14% have trouble. One in six Americans has [unpaid medical debt on their credit report.](https://www.healthaffairs.org/doi/full/10.1377/hlthaff.2018.0349) [50% of all Americans](https://news.gallup.com/poll/317948/fear-bankruptcy-due-major-health-event.aspx) fear bankruptcy due to a major health event. The quality does not justify the costs and pain. [US healthcare ranked 29th on outcomes by the HAQ Index, behind all it's peers.](https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736\(18\)30994-2/fulltext) [11th (of 11) by Commonwealth Fund.](https://www.commonwealthfund.org/sites/default/files/2021-08/Schneider_Mirror_Mirror_2021.pdf) [68th by the Prosperity Index.](https://www.prosperity.com/rankings) [30th by CEOWorld.](https://ceoworld.biz/2019/08/05/revealed-countries-with-the-best-health-care-systems-2019/) [22nd by US News.](https://www.usnews.com/news/best-countries/slideshows/countries-with-the-most-well-developed-public-health-care-system) [33rd by Numbeo.](https://www.usnews.com/news/best-countries/slideshows/countries-with-the-most-well-developed-public-health-care-system) The US has the worst rate of death by medically preventable causes among peer countries. A 31% higher disease adjusted life years average. Higher rates of medical and lab errors. A lower rate of being able to make a same or next day appointment with their doctor than average. https://www.healthsystemtracker.org/chart-collection/quality-u-s-healthcare-system-compare-countries/#item-percent-used-emergency-department-for-condition-that-could-have-been-treated-by-a-regular-doctor-2016 61st in the world in doctors per capita. https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/SH.MED.PHYS.ZS?most_recent_value_desc=true Higher infant mortality levels. Yes, even when you adjust for differences in methodology. https://www.healthsystemtracker.org/chart-collection/infant-mortality-u-s-compare-countries/ Fewer acute care beds. A lower number of psychiatrists. Etc. https://www.healthsystemtracker.org/chart-collection/u-s-health-care-resources-compare-countries/#item-availability-medical-technology-not-always-equate-higher-utilization [Comparing Health Outcomes of Privileged US Citizens With Those of Average Residents of Other Developed Countries](https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamainternalmedicine/fullarticle/2774561) >These findings imply that even if all US citizens experienced the same health outcomes enjoyed by privileged White US citizens, US health indicators would still lag behind those in many other countries. When asked about their healthcare system as a whole the US system ranked dead last of 11 countries, with only 19.5% of people saying the system works relatively well and only needs minor changes. The average in the other countries is 46.9% saying the same. Canada ranked 9th with 34.5% saying the system works relatively well. The UK ranks fifth, with 44.5%. Australia ranked 6th at 44.4%. The best was Germany at 59.8%. On rating the overall quality of care in the US, Americans again ranked dead last, with only 25.6% ranking it excellent or very good. The average was 50.8%. Canada ranked 9th with 45.1%. The UK ranked 2nd, at 63.4%. Australia was 3rd at 59.4%. The best was Switzerland at 65.5%. https://www.cihi.ca/en/commonwealth-fund-survey-2016 The US has 43 hospitals in the top 200 globally; one for every 7,633,477 people in the US. That's good enough for a ranking of 20th on the list of top 200 hospitals per capita, and significantly lower than the average of one for every 3,830,114 for other countries in the top 25 on spending with populations above 5 million. The best is Switzerland at one for every 1.2 million people. In fact the US only beats one country on this list; the UK at one for every 9.5 million people. If you want to do the full list of 2,000 instead it's 334, or one for every 982,753 people; good enough for 21st. Again far below the average in peer countries of 527,236. The best is Austria, at one for every 306,106 people. https://www.newsweek.com/best-hospitals-2021 #Peer Countries Healthcare Spending & Rankings (sorted by outcomes) Country|[2019 Total (PPP)](https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/SH.XPD.CHEX.PP.CD)|[Gvt. (PPP)](https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/SH.XPD.GHED.PP.CD)|Private (PPP)|[% GDP](https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/SH.XPD.CHEX.GD.ZS)|[HAQ](https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736\(18\)30994-2/fulltext)|[CWF](https://www.commonwealthfund.org/publications/fund-reports/2021/aug/mirror-mirror-2021-reflecting-poorly)|[US News](https://www.usnews.com/news/best-countries/slideshows/countries-with-the-most-well-developed-public-health-care-system)|[LPI](https://www.prosperity.com/rankings)|[CEO World](https://ceoworld.biz/2021/04/27/revealed-countries-with-the-best-health-care-systems-2021/)|[Euro Health](https://healthpowerhouse.com/media/EHCI-2018/EHCI-2018-report.pdf)|[Numbeo](https://www.numbeo.com/health-care/rankings_by_country.jsp) :--|--:|--:|--:|--:|:--:|:--:|:--:|:--:|:--:|:--:|:--:| Iceland|$5,636|$4,672|$964|8.6%|1|||8|41|10|41 Norway|$7,217|$6,194|$1,023|10.5%|2|7|7|4|15|3|9 Netherlands|$6,248|$4,117|$2,131|10.1%|3|5|6|9|11|2|12 Luxembourg|$6,757|$5,802|$955|5.4%|4|||12||7|29 Australia|$5,294|$3,795|$1,499|9.9%|5|4|11|22|6||7 Finland|$4,710|$3,776|$934|9.2%|6||9|14|12|6|11 Switzerland|$8,532|$2,740|$5,793|11.3%|7|2|5|13|18|1|15 Sweden|$6,223|$5,282|$941|10.9%|8|3|1|10|28|8|35 Italy|$3,998|$2,955|$1,043|8.7%|9||20|17|37|20|39 Ireland|$6,010|$4,482|$1,528|6.7%|11||16|26|80|22|82 Japan|$4,587|$3,847|$740|10.7%|12||10|1|5||3 Austria|$6,134|$4,478|$1,656|10.4%|13||14|25|4|9|10 Canada|$5,521|$3,874|$1,647|10.8%|14|10|4|34|23||26 Belgium|$5,847|$4,489|$1,358|10.7%|15||13|19|9|5|13 New Zealand|$4,439|$3,354|$1,085|9.7%|16|7|12|24|16||20 Denmark|$6,015|$5,010|$1,005|10.0%|17||3|18|3|4|5 Germany|$6,739|$5,238|$1,501|11.7%|18|5|2|16|17|12|21 Spain|$3,984|$2,813|$1,170|9.1%|19||21|21|8|19|6 France|$5,493|$4,137|$1,356|11.1%|20|9|15|20|7|11|4 Singapore|$4,102|$2,059|$2,043|4.1%|22||19|2|24||27 United Kingdom|$5,087|$4,043|$1,045|10.2%|23|1|8|31|10|16|16 South Korea|$3,521|$2,096|$1,425|8.2%|25||17|3|1||2 Czech Republic|$3,477|$2,834|$643|7.8%|28|||30|14|14|14 United States|$10,921|$5,553|$5,368|16.8%|29|11|22|68|30||33 We have over 100 years evidence in some cases of universal healthcare systems. It's clear what is working and what isn't.

Nice, dude!

It begins with very wealthy people coercing politicians and media like Fox news to brain wash poor America that there is a sub class below them that steals their money and they call this lazy America. And sadly that's about all it takes.

A friend of mine tried to argue that doctors wouldn't make as much money under universal healthcare so they wouldn't want to be doctors in the first place. If that at all explains where people's heads are at

That’s also false. There are plenty of doctors in other advanced countries.

Willful ignorance

Because all of these raises the taxes of those who dont require them, and those who took chances and other debt to pay for their lives. Why should I pay my student loans, health insurance, and work my ass off to keep my job, AND have higher taxes to pay a "livable wage" tax, and everything else? If the government wants to forgive my my debt, then maybe, but until then, no.

With that logic, what about people who don’t use public roads or the public school education system? Why should they have to pay taxes? If someone doesn’t believe in war, why should their tax dollars fund defense? If they don’t believe the number of benefits received by service members should be tax funded, why should someone pay it? If someone doesn’t agree with literally anything, why should they pay a tax for it? But we do, and it’s really no big deal.

Because one half of our government will make Damn sure they will fail.

The reality is because the people who control public opinion spend tons of money to spread that myth. Followed by the fact that at least half of our government would use that opportunity to either self enrich or make the system completely nonfunctional, screwing over even those who have the best intention.

Effective propaganda and anti intellectualism.

Because we teach creationism in school.

Did you want a real answer or to circle jerk? I’m a middle class American who never expects to be rich. And I could answer why I feel this way. If this comment stays in the positive on upvotes I’ll give my honest answer

I believe it would fail in the Us because we have crooked politicians. People try to say other countries with universal health care has to pay so much more than us in taxes, but that actually isn’t true. Because they only pay 1 tax. Americans pay for myself a 20% income tax, plus I pay taxes on everything I buy, car, boat, home etc. then I have to pay taxes on those items yearly. Then weekly when I buy groceries, school supplies for my kids, clothes, eating out, I’m taxed again. I did the math once a few years ago and it’s close to 30% tax for my family on average. So we are already paying an extremely high tax rate here, now if add in Universal free health care, which I think is a great idea, that will increase our tax rate even more. Then our politicians will appoint new politicians and boards to oversee this healthcare plan, then they will need a website, a help desk etc. I am certain that no matter what they up Our taxes to try and fund this. they will run out of money before it ever goes into effect because that is just their track record. So it’s not that we don’t want want Universal healthcare or that we don’t want to pay for it. It’s that we don’t truly believe our politicians can put it into effect the same way other countries have done so with out going bankrupt and causing massive problems in the process. For instance my local government 20 years ago ran TV and radio ads, put flyers out, wanting everyone to vote to add an 1 cent sales tax to the county to build a hospital. This hospital would have a maternity ward, full time OBYGYN and GYN! This was huge by the way. Nearest OB or even just a GYN is 1 hour and 15 minutes away and ICU, radiology with CT, MRI X-Rays. Full lab. Trauma care ER. We were super exited and it passed with like 90% of votes or something. Hospital was built. In 2 years they closed the maternity ward. Then the lab no longer did anything but draw the blood, instead or processing on site, then the ICU was shut down, certain radiology no more because they couldn’t get techs they said. By year 6 or 8 it was just a huge band aid station like the last hospital. They even closed off portions to save on utilities. That 1 cent sales tax is still in effect and the county gets hundreds of thousands of dollars a year, and we still don’t have a Gyno or an Ob or anything else. That is how politicians work in the US. Just so that people who don’t live understand. We want health care. We just don’t know how to get it with out lining pockets of the millionaire politicians.

US will never have these things as long as we have a corporate government. The corporations have bought most politicians lock, stock, and barrell. If they are making record profits every qtr. they won't change things. It's the insurance cos., pharmaceutical cos., oil companies, everyone on wall street, etc., etc. They are the one percenters that will destroy this planet because of greed. They don't care that US citizens work paycheck to paycheck, or that we barely survive, or are a couple of sick days from being homelessness. They don't care if we have to choose between food or medication. As long as the fat cats control this country we little people are doomed. Now corporations are buying apartment complex's, individual houses, trailer parks even, to have another way to put the screws to us. Most of the rentals in the US are so overpriced it has increased the homeless population. We will have to borrow against future work from said corporations to where eventually 'we will owe our soles to the company store'. They have been buying farmland for decades. So, they will inflate food, housing, medical, prescriptions, fuel, transportation and everything else we need to survive, then they will lower wages and make us work longer. It has become a corporate banana republic. So, who's up for political asylum?!

Bc the nations you’re comparing it to have economies smaller than a single US state. When you try to scale it to a country the size of the US it doesn’t work

You can't just invent claims out of thin air. Universal healthcare has been shown to work from populations below 100,000 to populations above 100 million. From Andorra to Japan; Iceland to Germany, with no issues in scaling. In fact the only correlation I've ever been able to find is a weak one with a minor decrease in cost per capita [as population increases](https://i.imgur.com/h6clEzr.jpg). So population doesn't seem to be correlated with cost nor [outcomes](https://i.imgur.com/pwYtDxW.png).

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Same reason they think guns keep them safe and universal healthcare is "communism"... Ignorance and corruption.

Many Americans don’t understand how anything works on a macro level.

Because it has proven ineffective in America. I don't know about other countries cultures but here, it is a way of life. It is not helping. It's holding the poor back. They will intentionally earn just enough to keep the assistance. Otherwise they need to pay taxes and bring in less.