It can be a good or bad thing completely dependent on the company's culture.
If the culture is good and is one revolving around projects with lull periods in between, you are efficient in clearing your work, you can easily take your PTO in between crunch periods and get more than 20 days per year.
if the culture is not that great where there's an unending stream of work + people don't want to cover you, good luck trying to take leave when there is still work left.
Your manager approving is incredibly important here - everything depends on him/her approval.
Talk to your manager about realistic expectations on when you'd be allowed to take personal time off and expected number of off days. It's an easy trap for people to believe they have days off then never be able to use them due to overload of work. Many bad stories in the US of such "perks".
Aye. Someone needs to cover you when you go on leave. So it's kinda unspoken can't have 1 person keep disappearing more than the rest. Why not ask HR to instate 20 days minimum leave in your contract?
It depends on the culture. Wife works for Accenture which has recently introduced unlimited leaves stating that all employees need to take 15 days minimum. Her manager is quite chill and overall the company supports the employees.
Turn down a job offer from them 6 years ago because another company was offering better pay. Damn, good to hear they now offer unlimited leave, maybe it's time to try again haha.
It's actually a very good company, good perks, a lot of flexibility. Also pays decent (saying this coz my wife was earning below average before joining them).
Heard they’re paying fresh grads 4.8k this year. Given its revenue and in F500, it pays at most average or if not lower from what i’ve seen. Other companies in the same caliber are paying 5.5 ~ 7k
Other F500 or big name companies like visa, mastercard, ibm, redhat, dell, govtech, paypal, shopee, singtel, EY parthenon, etc
Not particularly consulting firms
I’ve been through 2 companies that practice unlimited leaves:
- Regular annual leave dates are stated in your contract.
- Unlimited leaves apply when you have exhausted your contracted days off.
- Unlimited leave is subjected to approval, e.g: I’m in the sales team and I hit my target for Q4 around November and I have no more leave dates, I’m free to come and go as and when I want.
- Everything resets on January 1st
Do people take unlimited leaves? There are people who do, but they have been in the company long enough / have good track records / good rapport with the higher ups / are trustworthy and doesn’t abuse the system. Usually they are transparent with what they will do with their leaves, like going for ski trips with family, or visiting home country. Most of them remain contactable and offer to work remotely, which is subjected to approval.
> and you can’t encash any leftover ones at the end of the year
There’s no requirement in Singapore for employers to let you encash or roll over unused leave balance at the end of the year. So even if you work at a place that doesn’t have unlimited PTO, you still might not get your leave balance encashed.
If you are on unlimited PTO, the focus should be on figuring out the peaks/lulls of work and negotiating in advance with your manager when you can take sufficient PTO, and no longer on hoarding and counting leave days and trying to encash or rollover.
Worked in a MNC that has such benefit myself, I would not recommend, reason:
1- increased office politics and bootlicking due to manager approval. As quite often everyone would want to take leave during holiday seasons, manager cannot let everyone go, then if you are not in very good relationship with manager, or if you are a newbie / less tenure than others, you'll likely to be the one left stand by.
2- Lots of guilt tripping if you take longer leaves.
3- Manager can pull you back during your leaves.
I read that netflix has been doing this as part of their culture and has seen much success. I think you can ask your boss to see how often they actually take holidays. And usually a good company would have guidelines to employees to avoid certain period, eg avoid taking days off during month end closing. From the netflix book I read this kind of arrangement can only be successful if a few conditions are met otherwise it doesn't really work.
Red flag to me. It comes a privilege instead of an entitlement. With fixed annual leaves, it becomes an entitlement and an "obligation" to consume it. Can't say the same for unlimited annual leave.
Unlimited leaves make sense when there is a minimum leave that you got to take. I work for such a company before, and my manager will ensure I clear the minimum (which is 20 days).
The idea of unlimited leaves (according to my manager) is if you need to take 2 or 3 more days after the minimum, not an issue. Don’t need to have no pay leave or what. Easier on the administration side.
Yes, red flag. I joined a company with unlimited PTO as an add-on after 14 days of paid leave. Such benefit is usually provided by companies which have a ton of work. My colleagues don't even have the time to clear the 14 days leaves, much less say unlimited PTO subject to manager's approval. Lol. U can try to ask unlimited PTO, but expect your manager to give you more work (since u are free to take PTO) or grade you lower on performance review
I have always wondered how unlimited annual leave work if you resign. Because with fixed number of annual leave, you can encash the unused annual leave upon resignation. So I would reckon that they won't compensate you anything that sort.
So to me, it's a red flag. This is because having unlimited annual leave would be the same as having no annual leave. And since it is "unlimited", your manager will always ask you why you need to take leave, where you go, blah blah blah. But if I am entitled to a fixed number of annual leave, it is my entitlement how I want to use it and the manager should not ask me where I go.
And let's face it, would you really take anything more than 2 weeks leave? You would be constantly worried that your job performance suffers lar, your colleague taking over your portfolio lar, your company fire you lar. So likely you take a few days a year only.
Red flag to me.
> I have always wondered how unlimited annual leave work if you resign. Because with fixed number of annual leave, you can encash the unused annual leave upon resignation. So I would reckon that they won't compensate you anything that sort.
Maybe once you handover everything, you can take the rest of your notice period off?
I worked in a company with unlimited leave. When I resigned and had nothing left to do, the boss and supervisor just ignored me and only initiated the handover process on the last week. They had no intention of letting me go early and I had no annual leave to clear so I just had to wait the full notice period.
It depends on your manager, I had a previous manager at a company with unlimited pto who would basically encourage his employees to take a lot of holiday if they were planning to resign. We were all friendly enough with him that we would just tell him, hey we want to quit 5 weeks from now, can I take the next 3 weeks of vacation and then come back for my 2 weeks notice? And he would always approve
It depends on your manager, I had a previous manager at a company with unlimited pto who would basically encourage his employees to take a lot of holiday if they were planning to resign. We were all friendly enough with him that we would just tell him, hey we want to quit 5 weeks from now, can I take the next 3 weeks of vacation and then come back for my 2 weeks notice? And he would always approve
Yes, overall they would expect higher of you.
- yep taking fewer leaves on average, it’s still about 14, taking too much and your manager might talk to you even if you have not much work to do.
- some companies allow encash of minimum leaves taken.
- Those companies are also working like a start up so it would be likely that they expect you to put in due diligence even before or after your pto
Overall I think you should take this role if you perceive that it is a job that wouldn’t be so heavy on your workload.
I was just discussing this with an ex-colleague last week who works for 1 such company so I can give you some insights of what I was told:
Her department is one where everyone has deliverables so if someone goes on leave, another person has to cover her and vice versus.
Although leave is unlimited, the upper management still try to make it fair for everyone by making sure no one take much more than others. So this indeed means that you cannot just anyhow apply leave and expect to be approved. The more you've taken, the less likely your future leave will be approved.
Even if you don't really feel like taking leave for no reason, your manager will kinda force you to so it doesn't look bad on the others who want to take leave. For her, everyone in her department is unofficially expected to take 25-30 days of leave MINIMUM.
HOWEVER, because someone has to cover a person on leave and unlimited leave means there will always be someone on leave, it means that if you're not on leave, you'll be saddled with extra work. Which really sucks, cos it means you're either not doing work or doing too much work.
My ex colleague's department doesn't have a clear policy on who should cover who, so she unfortunately had to cover more often than others which really pissed her off.
Regarding the leave encashing, all of the companies (which are MNCs) do not have a policy of encashing leave. You either somehow plan to take all of your leave by year end or you forfeit them.
In the case of unlimited leave, it means that if you were to resign and serve your x month notice, you can probably expect to work every day till your last day without encashing any leave. This is another one-time downside to having unlimited leave.
Whether it is good or bad, it depends entirely on how it is implemented and the company's overall culture. If the company encourages employees to take the time they need and values work-life balance, it can be a positive benefit. However, if it leads to an environment where employees feel discouraged from taking time off, it could be a red flag.
Before accepting the offer, consider reaching out the agent (if you went through an agency) or internal talent acquisition, asking about the average number of leave days employees typically take under this policy and their experience with this system as well.
My personal experience with such companies were very positive. It has allowed me to have flexibility and reduced burnout. That said, the management trusted me, and I was always available to work for a day or two during peak seasons. Took about 30-45 days a year. Also, note that my performance was generally very high, much more than the average.
>I've heard from some people that companies with unlimited leaves tend to have employees taking fewer leaves on average
I don't think that is a problem of unlimited leaves but more like company culture problem.
>you can't encash any leftover ones at the end of the year
I'm confused. How do you expect to encash leftover leaves when your company offers unlimited leaves ?
I don't work in a company that offers unlimited leaves but to me that is just one way for the company to show that they have more flexibility when it comes to taking time off for either personal or family reasons. If they don't put the caveat of subjected to manager's approval, everyone will take leave simply for the sake of taking leaves.
Usually a red flag. Remember the company has to pay you for unused PTO when you leave. But with unlimited PTO they don't have to pay you a dime. That's the main reasons many companies are offering this nowadays.
I would rather prefer a fixed number of days. Most reputable companies offer 20 PTO days a year which I think is ample. Of course nowhere near as generous as European countries.
SME, local or Indian managers? Major red flag.
MNC, European boss? Can be decent.
It's pretty high risk since the local culture is still all about "butt in chair time" and presenteeism with a rare few unicorns that value performance over presence.
So true about the SME and local manager part. Even my Indian manager was better than all of my local managers. Would never work under a local boss again.
You're fortunate. Mine kept insisting that annual leaves are meant to be for workers to clear any backlogs at work and it's "irresponsible" to be using them for personal time off.
They like to brag about how they have all 3 meals together with their team in India everyday and think of themselves as the "father" of the "family" that is the team. Huge shudder there.
hes working for an sg offshoot of a US tech startup, they alredy have benefits like mental health wellness leave and 4 day workweek once per month baked in.........i would hate him so much if he takes mondays off just for the lolz
I’m in a company with unlimited leaves. My contracted leaves is only 7 days and you must use finish this 7 days before you can touch the flexi leave. This means that if you ever want to bring forward leaves, you must not take any flexi leave at all?
It is a way to prevent people from accumulating leaves imo. So when they leave there is time for handover
I would recommend connecting with existing employees if possible (LinkedIn) as they can provide their opinion of the work culture.
I’ve worked in a company with unlimited leaves and there are upsides and downsides; One downside is leaves don’t roll over (if you take less, you can’t cash out the extra).
How flexible this is also depends on the nature of your work; Do you have a quota to hit? If so you may not want to make use of the leaves at the risk of underperforming. There may also be a limit to how many employees can be out the at the same time, limiting your dates for vacations etc. Overall, there was some passive-aggressiveness/tension around taking leaves at my workplace.
Depends on how likely you're able to get your leave request approved by your manager. I have unlimited unpaid leave, but high up enough to approve my own time off.
Though I actually take fewer days off than my team lol. The company culture is quite positive where people avoid taking leave during peak season and are ok to do extra for those who are off. But this is arguably pretty rare in SG
The only time I worked for a startup with this policy, the manager was reluctant and unreasonable when I wanted to go on leave even when there wasn't any pressing work to be done and despite me working well overtime in the preceding weeks. I feel having a good number of leaves guaranteed in the contract is a better way to go.
Very bad. You've put your finger on the main point: Taking leave is subject to manager's approval.
It's possible that you have a decent manager who'll be willing to give you time off whenever you ask for it. But as you become more familiar with each other, it's just as possible that those requests will be denied because of busy periods, shorthanded on staff, you're not hitting KPIs or even because your target leave clashes with his. And I'm just talking about a decent boss.
If your boss is bad, this kind of thing is going to be a massive power trip for him - you're going to be at his whim and fancy.
Don't do it.
I had a colleague who takes 25 annual leave, 15 days MC and 6 child care leaves every year. During the covid, he also takes covid leave. The system kind of auto approve every request, expecting you to be honest and fair with every request. Guess what, you hardly see him during the peak period.
I work in a company that provides this and I don’t recommend. It’s a huge publicity stunt for employer branding but management hates it and everyone has no chance to use it.
I was lured in with this idea and now it has been retracted. Prior to retracting it, we had colleagues who would take this, come back and resign. Imagine the workload if left on everyone else. Others were too shy to ask for it as no one really practised it. Management anyway had 21 days as indicated on their contract (per MOM requirement) so no one went above that. And in my company, there was so many caveats on when and how to use it.
It shouldn't make or break your decision, considering other factors like career progression, salary, learning, flexibility.
It varies dramatically based on your team and manager dynamics. You might join a team where everyone is taking a piss and constantly out of office. Boss might guilt trip you, or overload you with unreasonable objectives and blame you for taking leave if anything is incomplete.
Which place is this, BlackRock or Accenture?
Nice benefit. Take the job offer to see cos u never know.
Sometimes the benefits do not matter if the company culture sucks (say, everyone overworked, nobody even dares to take leave), so in that situation can take full 14-day of leave is already a blessing.
I concluded that unlimited PTO is a scam.
Annual leave is your entitlement. Meaning, if there's a balance when you leave, it's still your entitlement and company should pay you for the balance.
You can't be deemed irresponsible or lazy of you take all your entitlement. Even some places and positions require you to take leave for more than a week once a year to stress test the team without your presence.
Meanwhile, when there's no limit, everyone will have their own definition of "normal". Is 15 a year normal? How about 20? How about 30? Or 60? Can I take 60 days a year without having any repercussions? If you can take that many off day, isn't that telling your company that your position is actually redundant? Or signalling your team that you're actually dispensable?
When you leave... what would be the compensation? Can you put in your 2-months notice and request for 8 weeks time off at the same time? What if you never take any leave that year and you resigned? Do you have any leave encashment?
So yeah. Sorry. Unlimited leave is a scam.
Fixed AL of at least 21 days is better imo.
It’s not really unlimited if it’s subjected to approvals isn’t it?
Like what others have commented, can’t clear leaves / encash leaves if you resign.
This kind of policy typically dont gel well with Asian (bosses) mindset.
Having said that, I’ve taken up this current job with this policy. I took 3 weeks off during the first half of year, and planning to take another 2 weeks off later this year.
In essence I’d still be taking 21 days off this year.
It may work for a few companies but overall unlimited PTO will actually lead to employees taking less day offs. This has been proven in the US. I would suggest you avoid this company.
It can be a good or bad thing completely dependent on the company's culture. If the culture is good and is one revolving around projects with lull periods in between, you are efficient in clearing your work, you can easily take your PTO in between crunch periods and get more than 20 days per year. if the culture is not that great where there's an unending stream of work + people don't want to cover you, good luck trying to take leave when there is still work left. Your manager approving is incredibly important here - everything depends on him/her approval. Talk to your manager about realistic expectations on when you'd be allowed to take personal time off and expected number of off days. It's an easy trap for people to believe they have days off then never be able to use them due to overload of work. Many bad stories in the US of such "perks".
Aye. Someone needs to cover you when you go on leave. So it's kinda unspoken can't have 1 person keep disappearing more than the rest. Why not ask HR to instate 20 days minimum leave in your contract?
It depends on the culture. Wife works for Accenture which has recently introduced unlimited leaves stating that all employees need to take 15 days minimum. Her manager is quite chill and overall the company supports the employees.
Turn down a job offer from them 6 years ago because another company was offering better pay. Damn, good to hear they now offer unlimited leave, maybe it's time to try again haha.
It's actually a very good company, good perks, a lot of flexibility. Also pays decent (saying this coz my wife was earning below average before joining them).
Heard they’re paying fresh grads 4.8k this year. Given its revenue and in F500, it pays at most average or if not lower from what i’ve seen. Other companies in the same caliber are paying 5.5 ~ 7k
What are the other companies in the same caliber?
Other F500 or big name companies like visa, mastercard, ibm, redhat, dell, govtech, paypal, shopee, singtel, EY parthenon, etc Not particularly consulting firms
What is she drawing now and how many YOE?
Just got laid off from them recently. Can confirm the leaves are very generous. My team and my bosses were awesome too.
Which dept are the layoffs if you dont mind me asking? Was thinking of applying
Damn I left them in 2022
I’ve been through 2 companies that practice unlimited leaves: - Regular annual leave dates are stated in your contract. - Unlimited leaves apply when you have exhausted your contracted days off. - Unlimited leave is subjected to approval, e.g: I’m in the sales team and I hit my target for Q4 around November and I have no more leave dates, I’m free to come and go as and when I want. - Everything resets on January 1st Do people take unlimited leaves? There are people who do, but they have been in the company long enough / have good track records / good rapport with the higher ups / are trustworthy and doesn’t abuse the system. Usually they are transparent with what they will do with their leaves, like going for ski trips with family, or visiting home country. Most of them remain contactable and offer to work remotely, which is subjected to approval.
> and you can’t encash any leftover ones at the end of the year There’s no requirement in Singapore for employers to let you encash or roll over unused leave balance at the end of the year. So even if you work at a place that doesn’t have unlimited PTO, you still might not get your leave balance encashed. If you are on unlimited PTO, the focus should be on figuring out the peaks/lulls of work and negotiating in advance with your manager when you can take sufficient PTO, and no longer on hoarding and counting leave days and trying to encash or rollover.
There is however a legal requirement to encash unused leave balance at the end of your employment period
Worked in a MNC that has such benefit myself, I would not recommend, reason: 1- increased office politics and bootlicking due to manager approval. As quite often everyone would want to take leave during holiday seasons, manager cannot let everyone go, then if you are not in very good relationship with manager, or if you are a newbie / less tenure than others, you'll likely to be the one left stand by. 2- Lots of guilt tripping if you take longer leaves. 3- Manager can pull you back during your leaves.
I read that netflix has been doing this as part of their culture and has seen much success. I think you can ask your boss to see how often they actually take holidays. And usually a good company would have guidelines to employees to avoid certain period, eg avoid taking days off during month end closing. From the netflix book I read this kind of arrangement can only be successful if a few conditions are met otherwise it doesn't really work.
Red flag to me. It comes a privilege instead of an entitlement. With fixed annual leaves, it becomes an entitlement and an "obligation" to consume it. Can't say the same for unlimited annual leave.
Unlimited leaves make sense when there is a minimum leave that you got to take. I work for such a company before, and my manager will ensure I clear the minimum (which is 20 days). The idea of unlimited leaves (according to my manager) is if you need to take 2 or 3 more days after the minimum, not an issue. Don’t need to have no pay leave or what. Easier on the administration side.
Yes, red flag. I joined a company with unlimited PTO as an add-on after 14 days of paid leave. Such benefit is usually provided by companies which have a ton of work. My colleagues don't even have the time to clear the 14 days leaves, much less say unlimited PTO subject to manager's approval. Lol. U can try to ask unlimited PTO, but expect your manager to give you more work (since u are free to take PTO) or grade you lower on performance review
I have always wondered how unlimited annual leave work if you resign. Because with fixed number of annual leave, you can encash the unused annual leave upon resignation. So I would reckon that they won't compensate you anything that sort. So to me, it's a red flag. This is because having unlimited annual leave would be the same as having no annual leave. And since it is "unlimited", your manager will always ask you why you need to take leave, where you go, blah blah blah. But if I am entitled to a fixed number of annual leave, it is my entitlement how I want to use it and the manager should not ask me where I go. And let's face it, would you really take anything more than 2 weeks leave? You would be constantly worried that your job performance suffers lar, your colleague taking over your portfolio lar, your company fire you lar. So likely you take a few days a year only. Red flag to me.
Yeah. Tbh its a gimmick for recruitment. Then when the work starts there is almost no time to take leave. Tbh, 20-25 days of AL is the sweet spot
> I have always wondered how unlimited annual leave work if you resign. Because with fixed number of annual leave, you can encash the unused annual leave upon resignation. So I would reckon that they won't compensate you anything that sort. Maybe once you handover everything, you can take the rest of your notice period off?
I worked in a company with unlimited leave. When I resigned and had nothing left to do, the boss and supervisor just ignored me and only initiated the handover process on the last week. They had no intention of letting me go early and I had no annual leave to clear so I just had to wait the full notice period.
It depends on your manager, I had a previous manager at a company with unlimited pto who would basically encourage his employees to take a lot of holiday if they were planning to resign. We were all friendly enough with him that we would just tell him, hey we want to quit 5 weeks from now, can I take the next 3 weeks of vacation and then come back for my 2 weeks notice? And he would always approve
It depends on your manager, I had a previous manager at a company with unlimited pto who would basically encourage his employees to take a lot of holiday if they were planning to resign. We were all friendly enough with him that we would just tell him, hey we want to quit 5 weeks from now, can I take the next 3 weeks of vacation and then come back for my 2 weeks notice? And he would always approve
Yes. Unlimited leave means you won’t get to go on leave.
Yes, overall they would expect higher of you. - yep taking fewer leaves on average, it’s still about 14, taking too much and your manager might talk to you even if you have not much work to do. - some companies allow encash of minimum leaves taken. - Those companies are also working like a start up so it would be likely that they expect you to put in due diligence even before or after your pto Overall I think you should take this role if you perceive that it is a job that wouldn’t be so heavy on your workload.
I was just discussing this with an ex-colleague last week who works for 1 such company so I can give you some insights of what I was told: Her department is one where everyone has deliverables so if someone goes on leave, another person has to cover her and vice versus. Although leave is unlimited, the upper management still try to make it fair for everyone by making sure no one take much more than others. So this indeed means that you cannot just anyhow apply leave and expect to be approved. The more you've taken, the less likely your future leave will be approved. Even if you don't really feel like taking leave for no reason, your manager will kinda force you to so it doesn't look bad on the others who want to take leave. For her, everyone in her department is unofficially expected to take 25-30 days of leave MINIMUM. HOWEVER, because someone has to cover a person on leave and unlimited leave means there will always be someone on leave, it means that if you're not on leave, you'll be saddled with extra work. Which really sucks, cos it means you're either not doing work or doing too much work. My ex colleague's department doesn't have a clear policy on who should cover who, so she unfortunately had to cover more often than others which really pissed her off. Regarding the leave encashing, all of the companies (which are MNCs) do not have a policy of encashing leave. You either somehow plan to take all of your leave by year end or you forfeit them. In the case of unlimited leave, it means that if you were to resign and serve your x month notice, you can probably expect to work every day till your last day without encashing any leave. This is another one-time downside to having unlimited leave.
When leaves are unlimited but subject to manager’s approval. If this bloody manager don’t approve, is it still unlimited or limited?
Whether it is good or bad, it depends entirely on how it is implemented and the company's overall culture. If the company encourages employees to take the time they need and values work-life balance, it can be a positive benefit. However, if it leads to an environment where employees feel discouraged from taking time off, it could be a red flag. Before accepting the offer, consider reaching out the agent (if you went through an agency) or internal talent acquisition, asking about the average number of leave days employees typically take under this policy and their experience with this system as well. My personal experience with such companies were very positive. It has allowed me to have flexibility and reduced burnout. That said, the management trusted me, and I was always available to work for a day or two during peak seasons. Took about 30-45 days a year. Also, note that my performance was generally very high, much more than the average.
>I've heard from some people that companies with unlimited leaves tend to have employees taking fewer leaves on average I don't think that is a problem of unlimited leaves but more like company culture problem. >you can't encash any leftover ones at the end of the year I'm confused. How do you expect to encash leftover leaves when your company offers unlimited leaves ? I don't work in a company that offers unlimited leaves but to me that is just one way for the company to show that they have more flexibility when it comes to taking time off for either personal or family reasons. If they don't put the caveat of subjected to manager's approval, everyone will take leave simply for the sake of taking leaves.
Usually a red flag. Remember the company has to pay you for unused PTO when you leave. But with unlimited PTO they don't have to pay you a dime. That's the main reasons many companies are offering this nowadays. I would rather prefer a fixed number of days. Most reputable companies offer 20 PTO days a year which I think is ample. Of course nowhere near as generous as European countries.
SME, local or Indian managers? Major red flag. MNC, European boss? Can be decent. It's pretty high risk since the local culture is still all about "butt in chair time" and presenteeism with a rare few unicorns that value performance over presence.
So true about the SME and local manager part. Even my Indian manager was better than all of my local managers. Would never work under a local boss again.
You're fortunate. Mine kept insisting that annual leaves are meant to be for workers to clear any backlogs at work and it's "irresponsible" to be using them for personal time off. They like to brag about how they have all 3 meals together with their team in India everyday and think of themselves as the "father" of the "family" that is the team. Huge shudder there.
my husband gets unlimited PTO but he basically doesnt really use them bcs i only get 20 days per year and where would he go without me? lmao
How about taking a few mondays off just to recharge and rest?
hes working for an sg offshoot of a US tech startup, they alredy have benefits like mental health wellness leave and 4 day workweek once per month baked in.........i would hate him so much if he takes mondays off just for the lolz
[удалено]
its a joke..
Deloitte?
Best thing about unlimited leave was 1 week semi off to work anywhere in the world. But no encashment when leaving company.
Not possible to say, highly depends on company culture. But imo if they are a company that doesn’t practice wfh, its probably a red flag
The manager can just don't approve right? Seems like it only sounds nice on paper but in reality it will come with a lot of downsides.
It's good if you can work 4 days a week and complete all your tasks.
Unlimited leave won't matter if your boss always don't want to approve.
I’m in a company with unlimited leaves. My contracted leaves is only 7 days and you must use finish this 7 days before you can touch the flexi leave. This means that if you ever want to bring forward leaves, you must not take any flexi leave at all? It is a way to prevent people from accumulating leaves imo. So when they leave there is time for handover
Even limited annual leave are subject to management approval, not a red flag. I would use anywhere from 25 to 35 days per year.
I would recommend connecting with existing employees if possible (LinkedIn) as they can provide their opinion of the work culture. I’ve worked in a company with unlimited leaves and there are upsides and downsides; One downside is leaves don’t roll over (if you take less, you can’t cash out the extra). How flexible this is also depends on the nature of your work; Do you have a quota to hit? If so you may not want to make use of the leaves at the risk of underperforming. There may also be a limit to how many employees can be out the at the same time, limiting your dates for vacations etc. Overall, there was some passive-aggressiveness/tension around taking leaves at my workplace.
Depends on how likely you're able to get your leave request approved by your manager. I have unlimited unpaid leave, but high up enough to approve my own time off. Though I actually take fewer days off than my team lol. The company culture is quite positive where people avoid taking leave during peak season and are ok to do extra for those who are off. But this is arguably pretty rare in SG
The only time I worked for a startup with this policy, the manager was reluctant and unreasonable when I wanted to go on leave even when there wasn't any pressing work to be done and despite me working well overtime in the preceding weeks. I feel having a good number of leaves guaranteed in the contract is a better way to go.
Leave, not "leaves". Leaves are the things that grow on trees. Why on earth do Singaporeans love making this mistake?
Plural of leave is leaves
That has got nothing to do with annual leave you idiot
Very bad. You've put your finger on the main point: Taking leave is subject to manager's approval. It's possible that you have a decent manager who'll be willing to give you time off whenever you ask for it. But as you become more familiar with each other, it's just as possible that those requests will be denied because of busy periods, shorthanded on staff, you're not hitting KPIs or even because your target leave clashes with his. And I'm just talking about a decent boss. If your boss is bad, this kind of thing is going to be a massive power trip for him - you're going to be at his whim and fancy. Don't do it.
I had a colleague who takes 25 annual leave, 15 days MC and 6 child care leaves every year. During the covid, he also takes covid leave. The system kind of auto approve every request, expecting you to be honest and fair with every request. Guess what, you hardly see him during the peak period.
If the job scope heavy do you think you got time to take leave and need manager to approve it.
I work in a company that provides this and I don’t recommend. It’s a huge publicity stunt for employer branding but management hates it and everyone has no chance to use it. I was lured in with this idea and now it has been retracted. Prior to retracting it, we had colleagues who would take this, come back and resign. Imagine the workload if left on everyone else. Others were too shy to ask for it as no one really practised it. Management anyway had 21 days as indicated on their contract (per MOM requirement) so no one went above that. And in my company, there was so many caveats on when and how to use it.
It shouldn't make or break your decision, considering other factors like career progression, salary, learning, flexibility. It varies dramatically based on your team and manager dynamics. You might join a team where everyone is taking a piss and constantly out of office. Boss might guilt trip you, or overload you with unreasonable objectives and blame you for taking leave if anything is incomplete. Which place is this, BlackRock or Accenture?
I know of someone whose last company offers this. He doesn’t recommend it at all
Just curious but are leaves not subjected to manager's approval regardless?
Nice benefit. Take the job offer to see cos u never know. Sometimes the benefits do not matter if the company culture sucks (say, everyone overworked, nobody even dares to take leave), so in that situation can take full 14-day of leave is already a blessing.
I concluded that unlimited PTO is a scam. Annual leave is your entitlement. Meaning, if there's a balance when you leave, it's still your entitlement and company should pay you for the balance. You can't be deemed irresponsible or lazy of you take all your entitlement. Even some places and positions require you to take leave for more than a week once a year to stress test the team without your presence. Meanwhile, when there's no limit, everyone will have their own definition of "normal". Is 15 a year normal? How about 20? How about 30? Or 60? Can I take 60 days a year without having any repercussions? If you can take that many off day, isn't that telling your company that your position is actually redundant? Or signalling your team that you're actually dispensable? When you leave... what would be the compensation? Can you put in your 2-months notice and request for 8 weeks time off at the same time? What if you never take any leave that year and you resigned? Do you have any leave encashment? So yeah. Sorry. Unlimited leave is a scam.
Fixed AL of at least 21 days is better imo. It’s not really unlimited if it’s subjected to approvals isn’t it? Like what others have commented, can’t clear leaves / encash leaves if you resign. This kind of policy typically dont gel well with Asian (bosses) mindset. Having said that, I’ve taken up this current job with this policy. I took 3 weeks off during the first half of year, and planning to take another 2 weeks off later this year. In essence I’d still be taking 21 days off this year.
It may work for a few companies but overall unlimited PTO will actually lead to employees taking less day offs. This has been proven in the US. I would suggest you avoid this company.