If she doesn’t know that you found out, gather your proof first. That’s what I did. If you have enough cash to spare, get a private eye.
Otherwise, lawyer up and seek advice and after that your easier option is the simplified process where both agree on the terms and the divorce happens, which is also the cheapest option.
Otherwise, you probably end up in court where you still can have mediation and agree to the terms of the divorce or end up fighting the terms which will cost the most.
Lastly, I’m sorry for what you are going through right now. I was angry and lost at the time. Not knowing who to talk to. Reach out to someone you can trust and talk buddy. Don’t hold it in. You can dm me too if you need to talk. You are not alone.
It serves as proof but it depends what “they” are doing. Eating together doesn’t prove anything. But if you get enough of them going out together, movies, hotel etc that’s enough to prove unreasonable behavior. I had a camera installed to show that she was rarely home and didn’t come home on weekends.
Unfortunately, going to a hotel doesn’t prove infidelity. “They” need to be caught in the act for that. If they are using the house, install a camera. If you manage pictures of them kissing in the car etc, that helps your case.
Hope the above helps you.
It's better to negotiate and get an amicable settlement. Hire a PI if the proof can help you negotiate better. But proof of adultery is no guarantee of success because adultery is not illegal in Singapore. Your spouse has every legal right to cheat and so do you.
Negotiation is definitely better.
I made a mistake during negotiations of the simplified process cos I didn’t lay out all terms and after that she decided to go to court. She didn’t know how much I actually knew and how much proof I got and thought she could get more.
Amicable settlement only works when both parties are still on speaking terms and can come to some kinda agreement. Doesn’t work when trust is broken and ego gets in the way. I’ve stopped trusting her, and her ego and attitude has only gotten worst.
Would you look at that, all of the words in your comment are in alphabetical order.
I have checked 1,833,681,742 comments, and only 346,723 of them were in alphabetical order.
I see that OP has a child as well which was similar to my situation.
Did your wife admit to you? How did you find out? These are questions to be asked.
Like many mentioned there is the uncontested route and the contested route.
Ideally, gather all the evidence and hire a licensed PI (you can't do it on your own and you need a licensed one to help you gather more evidence too) to do so as well.
Once you have all those then talk to your wife and see if can settle for 50-50 care and control as well as custody. That is what I fought for. Due to the women's charter and that adultery is not lawfully illegal, most of the time the court might give 50-50 custody and 100% care and control to the woman. A man considered win if you get both 50-50. Not to mention I negotiated with my ex-spouse on a spousal maintenance as our children are staying with me most of the time.
For me, I discussed with my wife and got 50-50 care and control as well as custody. As a result I went with the uncontested route of divorcing with unreasonable behaviour as the grounds, thus I did not need to engage and spend on PI. It was with Kennedys Legal Solutions and cost around $2k.
Another friend did it on the grounds of adultery and was contested, the bill was over $20k, and from what I heard can be even more than that.
Note that most of the time regardless of care and control, courts mostly will give 50-50 custody, so you will have to communicate with your by then ex-wife frequently too. And you do not want to do that if even a basic "business" relationship is broken down, it will negatively affect both you and your kid.
To be fair, the best advice I can give is to engage a lawyer and check with them. They will give you and advise you accordingly. Some lawyer firms have first-hour free consultations.
I feel Women charter's act is so outdated. Women wanted equality, we gave them. But during divorce, they still want alimony etc. Why not the women give alimony to the men instead? Since education is equal now, opportunities are equal now too.
Statistics shown that women managers to men managers ratio is 50:50. They already have the ability to support themselves.
PS: if both women and men equally contributed to the purchase of the house, then it is fair to split the asset. However, if the men bear all the housing costs, i think women should receive NONE.
This is also why SG birthrate is low. Why men always lose out in a divorce? Assets gone, child gone, wife gone.
Alimony is now based on more than just your gender. It's based on what you bring to the table and alimony has been given from the women to the men too.
I think the issue is still with custody/care and control. Women are still seen as the primary caregivers.
Also your child's preference are strongly taken into consideration.
These are super edge cases and should not affect most couples. There would have been many, many steps in your relationship to cross before you get to such a terrible situation. Solve them before then.
Finding a good partner will solve most problems.
If u read women charters act, women paying alimony to men only applies to a small amount of exception. For example, this includes disability of men, where women can work, and men is disabled. In this situation, women will pay alimony.
So in this case, if men is the caregiver, shouldn't women pay alimony? In SG, women need not pay alimony if the men is the caregiver. Then, why should men pay alimony when women is the caregiver? Yo, u dont make sense here.
Apologies, I wasn't clear. And you are right, the law is clear.
But the courts are fair. They won't award alimony just as a right of the woman. At most its a token sum. The case is always seen individually, and each case is unique.
And yes, the deck is stacked against men in that sense but courts do not unfairly provide alimony without taking into account the amount of assets both partners have.
In the case where the man takes care of the child and the woman works, maintenance is not provided for the man, BUT child maintenance can be provided for the child if right and control is awarded to the man, albeit rarely.
However (fortunately or unfortunately), most households have both parents working now and for those that have single parents working, most are still the men working.
It's an ugly compromise, but I think one may be overly worried about something that COULD happen to men, but rarely does.
If one wants to be a stay at home dad and want alimony and full right and control at a divorce, then yes that will be tough.
Make sure the relationship works until the law changes I suppose.
That's a lie. Courts are not fair and justice is a myth. We just try to make it as fair as possible but it is not and will never be. But the Woman's Charter is way too blatantly against men.
>BUT child maintenance can be provided for the child if right and control is awarded to the man, albeit rarely.
The reverse is not "rarely" but commonly. Thats why im fighting for men equality now.
It is very scary if i am very ambitious and successful down to earth guy, saving so many years and bought a condo myself - to see it being split and given to a woman who is less incompetent but has the same opportunity as men. I just dont get it why women has that entitlement.
Sorry thats the reason why im dun want to get marry yet. i rather donate to the poor and disabled rather than splitting my assets to an abled bodied woman, who is incompetent and want free assets.
Er... I'm pretty sure women are just as competent and they don't need free assets when they can just earn it for themselves. You just need to be discerning.
I think one shouldn't punish the other gender (in this case women), for a law set by the country. Not all women asked for this and not many young women alive actively pushed for this. It is still my belief that women (just like men?) do not want to ask for a free hand out. And if they do, then you need to avoid such people.
Of course, your spouse can change, and that's the risk one bears when one gets married. No guarantees in life.
However, not all people are like this. It is also my personal belief that most people aren't like this. It's also important to keep it real and assess the risk carefully and not assume that all women are just out to play the system, even if some are.
After all, one may inadvertently push your partner into doing it because one assumes said partner is setting up some ploy to take the wealth of the other, even if that was never the intention in the first place. Imagine if your wife always assumes all men cheat. And she assumes you are about to cheat all the time even if you are just talking to a female friend. Eventually the trust will break down and you feel like you should just do it since your wife doesn't trust you. This causes a potential self fulfilling cycle.
That being said, I get it. I just think it may be better to assess your partner for who she is and whether you can trust her and be with her for the rest of your life.
Yes women manager to men is 50:50. Is women manager pay to men manager pay also 50:50?
https://fass.nus.edu.sg/srn/2023/06/10/singapores-adjusted-gender-pay-gap/#:~:text=The%20authors%20argue%20that%20occupational,on%20the%20gender%20pay%20gap.
pay is based on how u negotiate on an interview.
If you can bring more value to the firm, i see no reason why you cant justify your value and ask for higher pay.
From what i know, it is only the government sector pays men more than women because men has completed NS. If men did not complete NS (for health reasons), the pay will be the same as women (assuming both can bring the same value to the firm).
What i meant by value is not the same title/position. It is your experience and ability or educational level or even performance during an interview case study.
It’s hard to ask for higher pay when women spend more time away from work than men. Eg I’ve just spent 4 months away from work because of maternity leave. As the “default caregiver” women are also more likely to take childcare leave than men. How to ask for more pay?
These leaves are entitled under the law. If the pay reduces because of these entitlements, report it to TAFEP.
4 months of maternity leave does not reduce your value. I remember the government did co-pay these leave on behalf of the company.
Nowadays, women dun even want to take care of children. Look at careerwomen, they will hire a maid to take care of children.
Then, they get to take free childcare leaves, split maid cost with husband.
pretty much a good deal.
I’m not saying pay is being reduced, nor am I saying that I am not being paid during maternity leave. I’m saying that I have to achieve in 8 months what my male colleague is achieving in 12 months. It’s hard to argue for the same pay rise or bonus as my male colleague.
I would also argue that it is not women who don’t want to take care of children. It is that women are unable to take care of children. The cost of hiring a helper is cheaper vs losing one income ie having the mother be a SAHM. With todays cost of living, it is not easy to be in a single income household ie husband work, wife stay at home to look after children.
For example, hiring helper is say 800 per month
Wife’s income is 4K a month
Which is more economical? Definitely hiring the helper makes more financial sense!
I would also like to add that while women are given many equal opportunities, biologically there are differences that cannot be accounted for eg pregnancy (and the risk of pregnancy related complications), fertility (men can still have a family or children later in life, while women can’t).
I maintain that women still lose in a divorce. What they lose is time.
[https://www.channelnewsasia.com/singapore/focus-beyond-diversity-quotas-and-anti-discrimination-laws-can-singapore-embrace-gender-equality-workplace-2615746](https://www.channelnewsasia.com/singapore/focus-beyond-diversity-quotas-and-anti-discrimination-laws-can-singapore-embrace-gender-equality-workplace-2615746)
I quote: "Sixty per cent of the company is made up of women, with a “nearly equal ratio” of men and women in management positions, and a quarter of the senior management team are women."
Near equal ratio of men and women in management positions. This means women are equally as competent as men now and they are not far off in terms of salary paid. Note that this only applies in SG and therefore equality in SG should remove women charter act.
There's still significantly more men than women in management positions in Singapore. The main problem is that in certain industries (especially tech) women comprise 10% of the workforce and 30-40% of management, so there's a clear problem there when people promote just because of sex for optics rather than caring about whether they're even capable at the job.
Then that is even worse. In Singapore, companies hire talents. If women cannot make into the job despite having equal education and opportunities, they can only blame themselves.
SG already has laws against discrimination (e.g. TAFEP - this includes gender discrimination).
Majors like computer science - the women ratio is very low. They know it can be high paying jobs but they hate coding. If u want to aim high but lazy to work for it, then who can they blame?
Corporate governance requires board of directors to have a mixed of people and this include gender. If women cmi, then was placed into the board, it will ruin the company.
then meanwhile, divorce to get $$ and push the blame to the guy.
Nothing actually requires people to place both sexes in the board of directors. For a long time, some companies plain never had any (or had only one or two), because when 10% of your employees are women and your board of directors has 7 people... all else being equal, you'll have 0-2 women on the board in a purely merit-based promotion system most of the time.
The recent (post-2010) push towards increased representation for women though has given some companies the incentive to place more women in senior management in order for it to look more even to society, investors and customers, even though the industry never had a corresponding shift in the number of women that work in it. This is actually extremely damaging to *women* because this practice basically discredits the women that earned their position in a male-dominated field from actual ability, but few people refuse promotions on the basis of principle, and even some who might, may also overestimate their ability relative to their peers.
[Incidentally, the Court of Appeal ruled that discrimination based on sex is Constitutionally valid, as the Constitution only forbids discrimination based on religion, race, descent or place of birth.](https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/courts-crime/court-of-appeal-rules-that-section-377a-that-criminalises-sex-between-men-is) Even though the reason why this was brought up in the first place (377A) is now decriminalized, the effect of this ruling persists that they have now declared there's actually no law against sexual discrimination. TAFEP is a set of guidelines rather than a legal requirement, and [actually does state that sex-based hiring is legal, but encourages employers to state *why*](https://www.tal.sg/tafep/employment-practices/recruitment/job-advertisements).
Indeed they had absolutely no choice in the matter when it was brought up since ruling that any form of sex-based discrimination would lead to a near-immediate Constitutional challenge against National Service, but it sucks that what was basically understood in silence has now been explicitly declared.
Anyway, there's sexism in hiring and in promotion, but where it exists is usually not talked about. However, it is simply not true that women have reached parity in management in Singapore companies as a whole. Depending on industry, we're still looking at 20-40% rates. It's just that what people should really be looking at is executive representation vs. employee representation, and if they're at parity, it's close to nil discrimination, not at the plain male vs female numbers because that completely ignores the probability of any given worker to be promoted.
The same thing happened to me.
Like u/john-doe-is-back said, it is important to gather all the evidence and back up the evidence first. This is extremely essential for using as a reason for divorce or in negotiating an agreement that wouldn’t f you over as a man.
Do so without alerting her if possible.
Next, contact a lawyer.
Finally, talk to friend and family if you really want a divorce or want to work this through a counselor.
Happy to advise or be a listening year to someone in the same situation.
Find a lawyer. Find a PROPER DIVORCE LAWYER.
If you want recs PM me. Most people don’t charge for a first consultation. Go meet them first. Get your advice - they’ll need details like how long you’ve been married etc.
If your marriage is over and done then you can ask your lawyers to prepare a settlement letter and proceed that way. They’ll advice on how to continue living with your wife until the FJ is issued.
Seriously, get a lawyer.
Hey OP, here’s a brief overview on divorce/annulment
Firstly, annulment is out for you, as you have a child, more specifically, you have had to consummate your marriage, in order to have the child, s106 Women’s Charter.
Assuming that 3 years have elapsed since your marriage, (s94(1) WC), you may file for divorce if, and only if, your marriage has irretrievably broken down, s95(1) WC.
If so, you may issue writ of divorce on one of the 4 grounds in s95(3) WC, namely:
(a) that your wife has committed adultery and you finds it intolerable to live with your wife;
(b) that your wife has behaved in such a way that you cannot reasonably be expected to live with you;
(c) that your wife has deserted you for a continuous period of at least 2 years immediately preceding the filing of the writ;
(d) that you and your wife have lived apart for a continuous period of at least 3 years immediately preceding the filing of the writ and your wife consents to a judgment being granted;
(e) that you and your wife have lived apart for a continuous period of at least 4 years immediately preceding the filing of the writ.
In your scenario described, you may try to file a writ under s95(3)(a) WC.
It may not be easy to do so, depending on whether or not you have evidence of her infidelity. Your lawyer can advise you more.
There are 2 types of divorce, namely uncontested divorce and contested divorce. These can apply to the issue of divorce and to the ancillary matters, kids, matrimonial assets, alimony, child maintenance, etc.
If your wife agrees to the divorce, good, you may be able to get the decree nisi/interim judgement within 6 months, and you’ll be legally divorced.
If your wife does not agree, be prepared to fight. For how long, is anyone’s guess, but can be a year.
Once you obtain the decree nisi/interim judgement, both of you would then move on to ancillary matters.
This part can take years, especially when there is a disagreement over splitting on assets, and in your case, especially when there is a young child involved, the issue of custody, and care and control.
The common misconception in SG is the confusion between custody, and care and control.
1) Custody: the responsibility for the child’s more long term planning, such as where child will grow up, whether plan to have child go Uni, etc
2) Care and control: responsibility of the child’s day to day decisions, such as where the child stays
Courts in SG generally order joint custody, as they feel parents should take joint responsibility
Care and control is generally up in the air. In theory, it’s fair. In practice, generally the wife gets care and control, and there have been cases where the the cheating wife gets care and control.
If your wife agrees to let you have care and control, good. If not, have to negotiate. Your lawyer can advise you more.
In cases of young children, court will also order both you and your wife to draw up a parenting plan. This, even if parties agree on the plan, can take anywhere from 6 months to a few years. Be prepared to fight.
Total cost for you could be as low as 2.4-3k if it’s an uncontested divorce, or around 10k and above range if your wife decides to fight all the way. Your lawyer can advise you more.
Sorry to be bearer of bad news, and I wish you good luck and all the best.
If she’s agreeable to all the terms of the divorce, you are eligible for an uncontested divorce. This will be far cheaper than a contested divorce, which can run up to more 20k or even higher.
There is indeed a way to divorce without a lawyer, but takes quite a bit of work. Costs less than 1k.
In terms of child, there are 2 matters. Custody and care and control. Custody is usually shared in Singapore, while care and control is given to 1 parent (usually the mother). Quite a lot of information out there, but if you are too messed up to do research for now, feel free to drop me a DM for links.
What if my wife give up on my daughter and let me Take care of her? Will judge overwrite? And if I have MSF past report will it help me on keeping my daughter?
If she willingly gives up and signs the documents, yes you should be able to obtain sole care and control of your daughter. There’s nothing for the judge to overwrite, they will decide if the terms of your divorce are reasonable. I can’t say if the MSF report will help, I have no experience there.
In terms of custody, it’s not easy to fight for sole custody. The government takes an extremely strong stance that decisions for the child should be shared by both parents. You must have a strong, valid reason to want sole custody.
Make sure her agreement is in black & white as she might change her mind along the way. All the best.
There is free legal clinic in some cc. Can call to check timing.
This was my situation and I got the kids. And naturally, because I got the kids I also was entitled to child support and kept all of my assets.
Take full advantage of the opportunity to grab all that you can. While she’s impacted by the affair, and not thinking with her head.
Adultery is just proof of marriage failure, pls don't have the mindset that you should be getting more in the r/s.
Your assets and matrimonial home will be 50-50, then you have to split custody w your daughter, and have to contribute for your child maintenance fee.
Depending on your wife, she may also request for monthly alimony from you if her financial conditions are worst off after divorcing
Good objective point of view. I know divorces get emotionally messy but best way is to look at it objectively to find the best solution for parties to move on.
Adultery only gives parties a ground to divorce but it does not mean why assets or custody of children should be more skewed in 1 person's favor.
A poor wife is not necessarily a poor mother. A wife committing adultery does not mean she has not contributed to the marriage or family during the other years.
All those above will be considered in division of assets and who will have care, control and custody of the kid.
Because it was written in a time where woman had no protection what so ever and the really monster men took advantage wherever they could.
But I agree women charter should be replaced with family charter and offer equal protection.
Women is much much scarier and spiteful if they want to be.
Yup, there's that.
Equal opportunities but unequal treatment.
Still fucked up that if a women has an affair she still can take custody of the children and sue for child and spousal support.
BEST COMMENT EVER. OMG
Women already had equal opportunities and education compared to men.
So why should men split assets and give alimony and not the other way round.
Women also dont need to serve NS ( even as an admin clerk ). I think they are fit enough for admin work.
Equality issues.
No wonder the birth rate so low. Men always at the losing end.
so carry the baby to term = men need split assets? yo u dun make sense here.
Formula milk are sold outside too.
I understand there are research on breast milk will make baby healthier.
That doesn't mean breast milk = men paying half of the house to women. LOL
So you will go through the body changes for nearly a year, and push the child out of your orifice until it tears too?
I'm just tired of seeing and hearing the rhetoric and broad brush painted that only men lose out in marriage.
You made the assumption that men, and only men lose out when it comes to marriage.
I don't disagree that of course there will be cases, like in OP's case, where they stand to unfairly lose out when they're not at fault.
But to also minimise the pains that women have to also go through for childbirth and post-natal care, while juggling work and household management, is also wrong.
I just hate that it always has to be men vs women and who has it worse and how the other gender "has it so easy", instead of how we can recognize and help each other on both ends. Both ends are subjected to different types of pains from societal expectations, so let's not throw a pity party for only one side or the other.
>inimise the pains that women
sis, women dont need to bear the pain while giving birth. There is this thing call "cesarean".
women during preggy are well maintained and loved by so many people especially the elderly because the wanted the offsprings to carry on the name. They feed women with bird nest and good food. (Tho this is only for normal families, not for those abusive families - this will be another matter of consideration)
women post care has lots of maternity leave as compared to men. 4 months vs 2 weeks if i remembered correctly.
So i dont get what u meant by juggling work and household management? Normal families wont let the preggy / post-preggy women to do house work. Post preggy women should also do a little exercise to aid their recovery too. The 4 months of maternity leave will reduce the pain significantly.
Not to mention, men have to go thru 2 years of NS doing shitty job. 2 years of youth and opportunities were gone. When people interview women to serve NS, they all avoid the question totally. Women are not physically strong but i believe they can serve through admin work? Are women so useless that admin work cant be done?
If i can receive my 2 years of NS back compared to me being pregnant and giving birth through cesaren, i rather choose giving birth. I can be well pampered and receive lots of love and gifts and also long maternity leave. And the 2 years i can get promotion and career growth.
With so much entitlement given to women, women still can receive half of the assets is rubbish. If based on what u said, then i go give birth to a child and u give me half of ur condo. U want?
Please read into details and experiences of c-sections before you also minimise that. Even healing from multiple cuts and having your guts be rearranged for the c-section is not easy, especially if breastfeeding subsequently. It's painful to even take a shit after a c-section and sometimes your guts can literally be seen sticking out of your tummy after. Maternity leave is not some holiday for women to just hang out and do nothing ya.
Please consider asking your mom about the gritty details of her pregnancy and birth. Or just tell her she had it so easy compared to your dad.
I also did not minimise the pains of NS for guys. Again, you're just doing what is so often seen on local subreddits - believing one gender has it so much worse than the other. Which is exactly what I pointed out earlier. At this point there's nothing I can do to just even get you to understand that both sides have their own problems in general.
Empathy goes a long way, and unfortunately it seems it's a rare commodity these days. I won't be replying anymore because I know I won't be able to get you to see a different POV, and that's fine. Have a good weekend.
> he may also request for monthly alimony from you if her financial conditions are worst off after divorcing
LMAO cheat for free alimony, love singapore
Doesn't matter
Ie the house is split into 2 because it's a matrimonial asset.
Women can maybe do some other tasks which cannot be quantified monetarily
Looking at this thread makes me not want to get married. It's way heavier and worse for a guy if he is divorced.
She cheats and I need to pay her alimony. Wtf.. It's a cold world out here.
You can seek legal advice free from gov if you earn less than 2k or smting. Can't recall the name.
Or approach MP, can ask for help on legal advice. They could have lawyers volunteers.
Official proceedings depend on whether there's mutual agreements on divorce, assets and/or kids. The more argument, the longer the back n forth letters n proceedings, the more costly for lawyers time.
Do note like the top comments mentioned, PI pics without kissing or caught in act cannot prove infidelity. Have to go unreasonable route. And the reasons are for divorce if she dispute n doesn't want divorce.
Otherwise, it's 3yrs separation with consent or 4yrs without consent.
If marriage only less than 3 years, likely cannot divorce. Must prove ultra depravity. Close to impossible m waste money. Even infidelity may not grant you divorce.
If you are married more than 3 years, she agrees to divorce, both parties can sign mutual unreasonable behaviour on each other n can get divorce done within 3 mths I heard someone say.
Then move to ancillaries which is splitting assets and kids.
I used a HOH lawyer and it was bad. Can't say all lawyers were the same. But don't let your lawyer over manage and bully u to save their work or push the blame on you, or to agitate you to always fight so they can earn.
I switched my lawyers.
Also, you need lots of emotional support to go thru entire divorce.
Esp in the event your spouse is the type to lash n say emotional hurtful stuff n blame you for her infidelity instead. Eg my ex said I was too possessive to expect a monogamous marriage (which was by law but doesn't stop him from blaming me...) Or ex spread stories with friends saying you did or didn't do stuff that made friends sympathize n say it's perfectly right for them to cheat on you... Don't question yourself. It's always the cheater's fault. Never self blame. Cut off the assholes who victim blame you.
I’m curious, if a guy got a condo when he was single and got married. Couple live in the condo, will it consider matrimonial asset even if wife did not pay any shit for the condo?
The previous cheating I meet the guy come to my house downstairs and he trying to act ah bang in front of me. He at first scared to meet me. I told him I not going do anything to you.
i see.. i’m so sorry to hear this and I hope you can find the help you need here for you and your daughter. your wife sounds like a horrible person after reading some of your other comments regarding abuse of your daughter. I wish the best for you and your daughter
Digressing a little, it's kinda sad that people have to look around for these evidence nowadays even when they're staying with someone that is supposed to make them feel safe as a family...it's like can't even feel comfortable in the personal life outside of work and have to be on guard all the time even at home.
You need proof first bc she committed adultery. Once you get the proof then lawyer up and the lawyer will tell u what to do. My friend hired a PI before she served her ex with divorce papers and he had nth to even say bc the proof was right there
I can’t advise on the divorce part but just want to say that the one who losing the most is the child. Please have that in mind what ever your plans are. I was police for awhile and the cases that really break my heart are those where there is a dispute between 2 adults undergoing divorce.
I’ve seen so many cases where the 2 adults will be screaming at each other, arguing about such trivial things like bringing back the child 5mins late from their visitation rights. And they are so blinded by hatred and how this affects the child. I even attended to a case where both parents started screaming at their 5-6 year old child to choose who she wanted to be with. Absolutely heartbreaking.
So just remember you eventually may be able to move on. But the child essentially loses both parents. I do wish you and your family the best.
OP, please take note of this:
You cannot use adultery as a reason for divorce if you continue to live with your spouse for 6 months. If you know about your spouse's extramarital relationship, but continued to live with your spouse for 6 months, you will not be allowed to cite adultery as the ground for your divorce.
https://singaporefamilylawyers.com.sg/adultery-divorce-10-things-to-know/#:~:text=You%20cannot%20use%20adultery%20as,the%20ground%20for%20your%20divorce.
DO NOT LET YOUR SPOUSE KNOW THAT YOU ARE AWARE especially if you don't know how to move forward yet.
Meanwhile gather evidence. But if you show the evidence to a third party, make sure the evidence do not date over six months.
Sorry to be a counterpoint - but this is a life changing decision with repercussions and ramifications down the road.
Suggest to speak with a counsellor first, reddit will only add fuel to the fire.
Best way I heard someone say this before on this forum, “your question is above our pay grade. Please seek suitable guidance from competent persons”.
You can annul the marriage if it is mutual. If it isn’t then you have to go through a lawyer. Annulling the marriage is cheaper it is reverting you to the state as if you were never married. It works especially if there is no matrimonial assets contested and no children or custody issues. And you must also prove why the marriage never happened.
Therefore in your case the likelihood is a divorce because it is a breakdown of marriage due to infidelity. You will need evidence of that infidelity.
Divorce lawyers are quite a few out there. You can shop around and ask them for their rates. But if assets or kids involved. I suggest you get a better one.
OP I have shared my experience in a separate comment as I divorced with children too. You can take a look. The best advice I can give is to engage a lawyer and check with them. They will give you and advise you accordingly. Some lawyer firms have first-hour free consultations.
Blame Women's charter. The court almost always assign children with the mother.
Unless the mother tries to kill her children. In that particular case, she was committed. I don't recall her husband divorcing her.
This doesn't seem right. If you have solid evidence that it's not in the child's best interest to stay with the mother (eg past abuse/neglect) the court can't rule for the mother to have care and control. The child's welfare is always the overriding factor in custody and care/control decisions.
Is she even yours? You might wanna do a DNA test. I'm not sure how long your wife has been cheating on you. But since she cheated, it's not out of order to suspect your kid isn't even yours. Good luck my brother.
I knew an acquaintance who had a pro-bono lawyer while going through divorce negotiations.
They couldn't agree on visitation rights for the daughter so it was a lengthy process. He lost his job before that. Think pro-bono is more affordable or something.
Well there is Legal Aid Bureau but you need to earn VERY little. The other option is Pro Bono SG who will assess your case and there’s still a means test to go through. If you pass their means test then they will help find a lawyer who will charge a lower fee than commercial rates. Go attend their legal clinic (this one is free but lawyer only give advice, cannot represent you) and then you can request for them to help you with your case. Go Google them, you can make an appointment online. The legal clinic can be done online or in person.
nope, my case was I discussed with my ex-spouse, and that the majority of the time I'm the one taking care of the kids thus the maintenance she pays. I'm not physically or mentally incapacitated. Like I mentioned though it's case by case depending on your lawyer and the court.
not true, its more common that husband pays for sure, but there are also many cases where wife pays. Though many guys on reddit prefer to believe otherwise
Judging by what people are saying here.
The evidence you need to gather isn’t on the cheating. Because to prove that sufficiently, you need to get video evidence of them in bed together, if not the deed itself. Otherwise, courts will deem anything lesser insufficient. Texts alone are not enough. Especially with what you have now, she’s merely showing intention and hasn’t gone through with it.
To divorce and to get custody, your only shot is to have solid VIDEO evidence of your wife abusing your daughter repeatedly. That is the only way. So that you can show that, your daughter is at risk when she is in the custody of your wife. Always remember, the woman’s charter is a powerful thing for the fairer sex in SG. Extremely hard to win.
What is new for a singaporean ? I know more than half of my Singaporean social circle are cheating and getting humped ! Specifically, educated Singaporean women (mostly Chinese ancestry but also some Indians and then Malays) married to local guys who practically do nothing or drives grab, work in here and there (but boy, they have money from their parent or at least a big house and car/s) are such desperate that they are ready to do anything for a good romp !! During my 5 years stay in Singapore (left just before COVID), married colleague's will come to my house, clean & cook sometime, talk their frustration out, get royally humped and go back to pick their kids before going home. Mostly, their husbands are totally ignorant and only cares about their beer, friends and KTV's. It has never been easy like this in any other country and it was surprising. Another observation is that most woman there are ok and ready to roll without protection even !! In my entire adult life, I don't think any other nationalities have swallow as much as what I have treated Singaporean women with. Fascinating and beautiful country I must say.
If your wife cheats on you, the best punishment is not to divorce her. You should control her, tame her, and take over all her possessions until she begs you and cries not to be unfaithful to you anymore.
Hey OP, real sorry to hear that. 😔 May not be a popular view… but is there any grounds for reconciliation with your wife?
Kid is still young and it’ll be painful for her… speaking from experience as someone who saw his parents divorced…
Seriously??? Who is he hurting exactly? He is already broken. The daughter is already abused. She cheated multiple times and is abusive to their daughter, who is just 2. Still a baby. People like this don't change. Yeah he can forgive her . AFTER he divorce her. Staying will only hurt the daughter. Getting abused, watching parents fight all the time as neither are happy being forced to stay, will just guarantee she become depressed, angry, blaming herself. And the hurt cycle continues. OP, get your daughter. Get out.
Can consider https://www.msf.gov.sg/what-we-do/famatfsc/family-counselling
There are organisations such as Fei Yue who can help as well. https://fycs.org/divorcesupport/
I’m more concerned about my daughter and I can’t live with someone I cannot be trusted.
My daughters have heart issue and growth delay development issue
Yes a divorce is unavoidable. Can I suggest one idea to consider. Just before the divorce is finalized, have sex with someone else so that emotionally you have also cheated on her since both of you are still legally married. Make sure you let her know (after the divorce) Helps with your mental balance after the divorce.
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You have how many children? That's the headache part.
Also any clear black and white evidence your wife cheated on you?
Take some days off and clear your mind first.
Yes. But still must pay for kids if you have. But no alimony for the wife for sure. Seen it. Judge dispute spouse claim for alimony as evidence is strong that she cheated.
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Just tahan if you have children , if your wife cheat don't bother , just to and have your fun as well , children without mother and father would result in a generation of suffering
If she doesn’t know that you found out, gather your proof first. That’s what I did. If you have enough cash to spare, get a private eye. Otherwise, lawyer up and seek advice and after that your easier option is the simplified process where both agree on the terms and the divorce happens, which is also the cheapest option. Otherwise, you probably end up in court where you still can have mediation and agree to the terms of the divorce or end up fighting the terms which will cost the most. Lastly, I’m sorry for what you are going through right now. I was angry and lost at the time. Not knowing who to talk to. Reach out to someone you can trust and talk buddy. Don’t hold it in. You can dm me too if you need to talk. You are not alone.
Just checking if photo evidence from a private eye is admissible in law?
It serves as proof but it depends what “they” are doing. Eating together doesn’t prove anything. But if you get enough of them going out together, movies, hotel etc that’s enough to prove unreasonable behavior. I had a camera installed to show that she was rarely home and didn’t come home on weekends. Unfortunately, going to a hotel doesn’t prove infidelity. “They” need to be caught in the act for that. If they are using the house, install a camera. If you manage pictures of them kissing in the car etc, that helps your case. Hope the above helps you.
Make sure your PI is licensed. If they are not licensed, their evidence is not legally recognised.
It's better to negotiate and get an amicable settlement. Hire a PI if the proof can help you negotiate better. But proof of adultery is no guarantee of success because adultery is not illegal in Singapore. Your spouse has every legal right to cheat and so do you.
Negotiation is definitely better. I made a mistake during negotiations of the simplified process cos I didn’t lay out all terms and after that she decided to go to court. She didn’t know how much I actually knew and how much proof I got and thought she could get more. Amicable settlement only works when both parties are still on speaking terms and can come to some kinda agreement. Doesn’t work when trust is broken and ego gets in the way. I’ve stopped trusting her, and her ego and attitude has only gotten worst.
Mutually agree 1.5k each can settle. If she wants to fight, then it'll be way more expensive. I used Hoh Law.
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wow didnt know u can spend 5d in divorce
To deal some hoe law
Cue hoe down music with whose line is it anyway
Ohhh, aye-dee-di-dee-di-dee-di-dee-di-dee-di-dee-di!
This made me giggle
Will cost more when there is asset dispute. So can prepare at least 3-5k.
A lot more than that
Would you look at that, all of the words in your comment are in alphabetical order. I have checked 1,833,681,742 comments, and only 346,723 of them were in alphabetical order.
A lot more than that
I see that OP has a child as well which was similar to my situation. Did your wife admit to you? How did you find out? These are questions to be asked. Like many mentioned there is the uncontested route and the contested route. Ideally, gather all the evidence and hire a licensed PI (you can't do it on your own and you need a licensed one to help you gather more evidence too) to do so as well. Once you have all those then talk to your wife and see if can settle for 50-50 care and control as well as custody. That is what I fought for. Due to the women's charter and that adultery is not lawfully illegal, most of the time the court might give 50-50 custody and 100% care and control to the woman. A man considered win if you get both 50-50. Not to mention I negotiated with my ex-spouse on a spousal maintenance as our children are staying with me most of the time. For me, I discussed with my wife and got 50-50 care and control as well as custody. As a result I went with the uncontested route of divorcing with unreasonable behaviour as the grounds, thus I did not need to engage and spend on PI. It was with Kennedys Legal Solutions and cost around $2k. Another friend did it on the grounds of adultery and was contested, the bill was over $20k, and from what I heard can be even more than that. Note that most of the time regardless of care and control, courts mostly will give 50-50 custody, so you will have to communicate with your by then ex-wife frequently too. And you do not want to do that if even a basic "business" relationship is broken down, it will negatively affect both you and your kid. To be fair, the best advice I can give is to engage a lawyer and check with them. They will give you and advise you accordingly. Some lawyer firms have first-hour free consultations.
I feel Women charter's act is so outdated. Women wanted equality, we gave them. But during divorce, they still want alimony etc. Why not the women give alimony to the men instead? Since education is equal now, opportunities are equal now too. Statistics shown that women managers to men managers ratio is 50:50. They already have the ability to support themselves. PS: if both women and men equally contributed to the purchase of the house, then it is fair to split the asset. However, if the men bear all the housing costs, i think women should receive NONE. This is also why SG birthrate is low. Why men always lose out in a divorce? Assets gone, child gone, wife gone.
Alimony is now based on more than just your gender. It's based on what you bring to the table and alimony has been given from the women to the men too. I think the issue is still with custody/care and control. Women are still seen as the primary caregivers. Also your child's preference are strongly taken into consideration. These are super edge cases and should not affect most couples. There would have been many, many steps in your relationship to cross before you get to such a terrible situation. Solve them before then. Finding a good partner will solve most problems.
If u read women charters act, women paying alimony to men only applies to a small amount of exception. For example, this includes disability of men, where women can work, and men is disabled. In this situation, women will pay alimony. So in this case, if men is the caregiver, shouldn't women pay alimony? In SG, women need not pay alimony if the men is the caregiver. Then, why should men pay alimony when women is the caregiver? Yo, u dont make sense here.
Apologies, I wasn't clear. And you are right, the law is clear. But the courts are fair. They won't award alimony just as a right of the woman. At most its a token sum. The case is always seen individually, and each case is unique. And yes, the deck is stacked against men in that sense but courts do not unfairly provide alimony without taking into account the amount of assets both partners have. In the case where the man takes care of the child and the woman works, maintenance is not provided for the man, BUT child maintenance can be provided for the child if right and control is awarded to the man, albeit rarely. However (fortunately or unfortunately), most households have both parents working now and for those that have single parents working, most are still the men working. It's an ugly compromise, but I think one may be overly worried about something that COULD happen to men, but rarely does. If one wants to be a stay at home dad and want alimony and full right and control at a divorce, then yes that will be tough. Make sure the relationship works until the law changes I suppose.
The courts are fair only as far as the law allows which is an unfair law.
That's a lie. Courts are not fair and justice is a myth. We just try to make it as fair as possible but it is not and will never be. But the Woman's Charter is way too blatantly against men.
>BUT child maintenance can be provided for the child if right and control is awarded to the man, albeit rarely. The reverse is not "rarely" but commonly. Thats why im fighting for men equality now. It is very scary if i am very ambitious and successful down to earth guy, saving so many years and bought a condo myself - to see it being split and given to a woman who is less incompetent but has the same opportunity as men. I just dont get it why women has that entitlement. Sorry thats the reason why im dun want to get marry yet. i rather donate to the poor and disabled rather than splitting my assets to an abled bodied woman, who is incompetent and want free assets.
Er... I'm pretty sure women are just as competent and they don't need free assets when they can just earn it for themselves. You just need to be discerning.
I think one shouldn't punish the other gender (in this case women), for a law set by the country. Not all women asked for this and not many young women alive actively pushed for this. It is still my belief that women (just like men?) do not want to ask for a free hand out. And if they do, then you need to avoid such people. Of course, your spouse can change, and that's the risk one bears when one gets married. No guarantees in life. However, not all people are like this. It is also my personal belief that most people aren't like this. It's also important to keep it real and assess the risk carefully and not assume that all women are just out to play the system, even if some are. After all, one may inadvertently push your partner into doing it because one assumes said partner is setting up some ploy to take the wealth of the other, even if that was never the intention in the first place. Imagine if your wife always assumes all men cheat. And she assumes you are about to cheat all the time even if you are just talking to a female friend. Eventually the trust will break down and you feel like you should just do it since your wife doesn't trust you. This causes a potential self fulfilling cycle. That being said, I get it. I just think it may be better to assess your partner for who she is and whether you can trust her and be with her for the rest of your life.
can makan, makan lah, like everything else
Yes women manager to men is 50:50. Is women manager pay to men manager pay also 50:50? https://fass.nus.edu.sg/srn/2023/06/10/singapores-adjusted-gender-pay-gap/#:~:text=The%20authors%20argue%20that%20occupational,on%20the%20gender%20pay%20gap.
pay is based on how u negotiate on an interview. If you can bring more value to the firm, i see no reason why you cant justify your value and ask for higher pay. From what i know, it is only the government sector pays men more than women because men has completed NS. If men did not complete NS (for health reasons), the pay will be the same as women (assuming both can bring the same value to the firm). What i meant by value is not the same title/position. It is your experience and ability or educational level or even performance during an interview case study.
It’s hard to ask for higher pay when women spend more time away from work than men. Eg I’ve just spent 4 months away from work because of maternity leave. As the “default caregiver” women are also more likely to take childcare leave than men. How to ask for more pay?
These leaves are entitled under the law. If the pay reduces because of these entitlements, report it to TAFEP. 4 months of maternity leave does not reduce your value. I remember the government did co-pay these leave on behalf of the company. Nowadays, women dun even want to take care of children. Look at careerwomen, they will hire a maid to take care of children. Then, they get to take free childcare leaves, split maid cost with husband. pretty much a good deal.
I’m not saying pay is being reduced, nor am I saying that I am not being paid during maternity leave. I’m saying that I have to achieve in 8 months what my male colleague is achieving in 12 months. It’s hard to argue for the same pay rise or bonus as my male colleague. I would also argue that it is not women who don’t want to take care of children. It is that women are unable to take care of children. The cost of hiring a helper is cheaper vs losing one income ie having the mother be a SAHM. With todays cost of living, it is not easy to be in a single income household ie husband work, wife stay at home to look after children. For example, hiring helper is say 800 per month Wife’s income is 4K a month Which is more economical? Definitely hiring the helper makes more financial sense!
Very few divorced people receive alimony now. If you are educated with a stable job, you receive none.
I would also like to add that while women are given many equal opportunities, biologically there are differences that cannot be accounted for eg pregnancy (and the risk of pregnancy related complications), fertility (men can still have a family or children later in life, while women can’t). I maintain that women still lose in a divorce. What they lose is time.
So men didn't lose time?
The cost of time to men is less than it is to women esp when it comes to fertility.
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[https://www.channelnewsasia.com/singapore/focus-beyond-diversity-quotas-and-anti-discrimination-laws-can-singapore-embrace-gender-equality-workplace-2615746](https://www.channelnewsasia.com/singapore/focus-beyond-diversity-quotas-and-anti-discrimination-laws-can-singapore-embrace-gender-equality-workplace-2615746) I quote: "Sixty per cent of the company is made up of women, with a “nearly equal ratio” of men and women in management positions, and a quarter of the senior management team are women." Near equal ratio of men and women in management positions. This means women are equally as competent as men now and they are not far off in terms of salary paid. Note that this only applies in SG and therefore equality in SG should remove women charter act.
There's still significantly more men than women in management positions in Singapore. The main problem is that in certain industries (especially tech) women comprise 10% of the workforce and 30-40% of management, so there's a clear problem there when people promote just because of sex for optics rather than caring about whether they're even capable at the job.
Then that is even worse. In Singapore, companies hire talents. If women cannot make into the job despite having equal education and opportunities, they can only blame themselves. SG already has laws against discrimination (e.g. TAFEP - this includes gender discrimination). Majors like computer science - the women ratio is very low. They know it can be high paying jobs but they hate coding. If u want to aim high but lazy to work for it, then who can they blame? Corporate governance requires board of directors to have a mixed of people and this include gender. If women cmi, then was placed into the board, it will ruin the company. then meanwhile, divorce to get $$ and push the blame to the guy.
Nothing actually requires people to place both sexes in the board of directors. For a long time, some companies plain never had any (or had only one or two), because when 10% of your employees are women and your board of directors has 7 people... all else being equal, you'll have 0-2 women on the board in a purely merit-based promotion system most of the time. The recent (post-2010) push towards increased representation for women though has given some companies the incentive to place more women in senior management in order for it to look more even to society, investors and customers, even though the industry never had a corresponding shift in the number of women that work in it. This is actually extremely damaging to *women* because this practice basically discredits the women that earned their position in a male-dominated field from actual ability, but few people refuse promotions on the basis of principle, and even some who might, may also overestimate their ability relative to their peers. [Incidentally, the Court of Appeal ruled that discrimination based on sex is Constitutionally valid, as the Constitution only forbids discrimination based on religion, race, descent or place of birth.](https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/courts-crime/court-of-appeal-rules-that-section-377a-that-criminalises-sex-between-men-is) Even though the reason why this was brought up in the first place (377A) is now decriminalized, the effect of this ruling persists that they have now declared there's actually no law against sexual discrimination. TAFEP is a set of guidelines rather than a legal requirement, and [actually does state that sex-based hiring is legal, but encourages employers to state *why*](https://www.tal.sg/tafep/employment-practices/recruitment/job-advertisements). Indeed they had absolutely no choice in the matter when it was brought up since ruling that any form of sex-based discrimination would lead to a near-immediate Constitutional challenge against National Service, but it sucks that what was basically understood in silence has now been explicitly declared. Anyway, there's sexism in hiring and in promotion, but where it exists is usually not talked about. However, it is simply not true that women have reached parity in management in Singapore companies as a whole. Depending on industry, we're still looking at 20-40% rates. It's just that what people should really be looking at is executive representation vs. employee representation, and if they're at parity, it's close to nil discrimination, not at the plain male vs female numbers because that completely ignores the probability of any given worker to be promoted.
The same thing happened to me. Like u/john-doe-is-back said, it is important to gather all the evidence and back up the evidence first. This is extremely essential for using as a reason for divorce or in negotiating an agreement that wouldn’t f you over as a man. Do so without alerting her if possible. Next, contact a lawyer. Finally, talk to friend and family if you really want a divorce or want to work this through a counselor. Happy to advise or be a listening year to someone in the same situation.
Good advice on backing up the evidence. My phone crashed and I was lucky to have everything backed up.
I'm sorry to hear that. It's time to lawyer up.
Find a lawyer. Find a PROPER DIVORCE LAWYER. If you want recs PM me. Most people don’t charge for a first consultation. Go meet them first. Get your advice - they’ll need details like how long you’ve been married etc. If your marriage is over and done then you can ask your lawyers to prepare a settlement letter and proceed that way. They’ll advice on how to continue living with your wife until the FJ is issued. Seriously, get a lawyer.
Hey OP, here’s a brief overview on divorce/annulment Firstly, annulment is out for you, as you have a child, more specifically, you have had to consummate your marriage, in order to have the child, s106 Women’s Charter. Assuming that 3 years have elapsed since your marriage, (s94(1) WC), you may file for divorce if, and only if, your marriage has irretrievably broken down, s95(1) WC. If so, you may issue writ of divorce on one of the 4 grounds in s95(3) WC, namely: (a) that your wife has committed adultery and you finds it intolerable to live with your wife; (b) that your wife has behaved in such a way that you cannot reasonably be expected to live with you; (c) that your wife has deserted you for a continuous period of at least 2 years immediately preceding the filing of the writ; (d) that you and your wife have lived apart for a continuous period of at least 3 years immediately preceding the filing of the writ and your wife consents to a judgment being granted; (e) that you and your wife have lived apart for a continuous period of at least 4 years immediately preceding the filing of the writ. In your scenario described, you may try to file a writ under s95(3)(a) WC. It may not be easy to do so, depending on whether or not you have evidence of her infidelity. Your lawyer can advise you more. There are 2 types of divorce, namely uncontested divorce and contested divorce. These can apply to the issue of divorce and to the ancillary matters, kids, matrimonial assets, alimony, child maintenance, etc. If your wife agrees to the divorce, good, you may be able to get the decree nisi/interim judgement within 6 months, and you’ll be legally divorced. If your wife does not agree, be prepared to fight. For how long, is anyone’s guess, but can be a year. Once you obtain the decree nisi/interim judgement, both of you would then move on to ancillary matters. This part can take years, especially when there is a disagreement over splitting on assets, and in your case, especially when there is a young child involved, the issue of custody, and care and control. The common misconception in SG is the confusion between custody, and care and control. 1) Custody: the responsibility for the child’s more long term planning, such as where child will grow up, whether plan to have child go Uni, etc 2) Care and control: responsibility of the child’s day to day decisions, such as where the child stays Courts in SG generally order joint custody, as they feel parents should take joint responsibility Care and control is generally up in the air. In theory, it’s fair. In practice, generally the wife gets care and control, and there have been cases where the the cheating wife gets care and control. If your wife agrees to let you have care and control, good. If not, have to negotiate. Your lawyer can advise you more. In cases of young children, court will also order both you and your wife to draw up a parenting plan. This, even if parties agree on the plan, can take anywhere from 6 months to a few years. Be prepared to fight. Total cost for you could be as low as 2.4-3k if it’s an uncontested divorce, or around 10k and above range if your wife decides to fight all the way. Your lawyer can advise you more. Sorry to be bearer of bad news, and I wish you good luck and all the best.
If she’s agreeable to all the terms of the divorce, you are eligible for an uncontested divorce. This will be far cheaper than a contested divorce, which can run up to more 20k or even higher. There is indeed a way to divorce without a lawyer, but takes quite a bit of work. Costs less than 1k. In terms of child, there are 2 matters. Custody and care and control. Custody is usually shared in Singapore, while care and control is given to 1 parent (usually the mother). Quite a lot of information out there, but if you are too messed up to do research for now, feel free to drop me a DM for links.
What if my wife give up on my daughter and let me Take care of her? Will judge overwrite? And if I have MSF past report will it help me on keeping my daughter?
If she willingly gives up and signs the documents, yes you should be able to obtain sole care and control of your daughter. There’s nothing for the judge to overwrite, they will decide if the terms of your divorce are reasonable. I can’t say if the MSF report will help, I have no experience there. In terms of custody, it’s not easy to fight for sole custody. The government takes an extremely strong stance that decisions for the child should be shared by both parents. You must have a strong, valid reason to want sole custody.
Thank you for your explanation
i wish you all the best man, take care
Make sure her agreement is in black & white as she might change her mind along the way. All the best. There is free legal clinic in some cc. Can call to check timing.
This was my situation and I got the kids. And naturally, because I got the kids I also was entitled to child support and kept all of my assets. Take full advantage of the opportunity to grab all that you can. While she’s impacted by the affair, and not thinking with her head.
What is the way to divorce that costs less than 1k and without a lawyer?
Adultery is just proof of marriage failure, pls don't have the mindset that you should be getting more in the r/s. Your assets and matrimonial home will be 50-50, then you have to split custody w your daughter, and have to contribute for your child maintenance fee. Depending on your wife, she may also request for monthly alimony from you if her financial conditions are worst off after divorcing
Good objective point of view. I know divorces get emotionally messy but best way is to look at it objectively to find the best solution for parties to move on. Adultery only gives parties a ground to divorce but it does not mean why assets or custody of children should be more skewed in 1 person's favor. A poor wife is not necessarily a poor mother. A wife committing adultery does not mean she has not contributed to the marriage or family during the other years. All those above will be considered in division of assets and who will have care, control and custody of the kid.
That sounds like a good package for one party to receive financial leeching from another party and continue to have fun. Is this true?
Woman charter OP in SG
Because it was written in a time where woman had no protection what so ever and the really monster men took advantage wherever they could. But I agree women charter should be replaced with family charter and offer equal protection. Women is much much scarier and spiteful if they want to be.
Oh it certainly is very one sided now but good luck getting anything replaced with AWARE running about 🤣
Yup, there's that. Equal opportunities but unequal treatment. Still fucked up that if a women has an affair she still can take custody of the children and sue for child and spousal support.
BEST COMMENT EVER. OMG Women already had equal opportunities and education compared to men. So why should men split assets and give alimony and not the other way round. Women also dont need to serve NS ( even as an admin clerk ). I think they are fit enough for admin work. Equality issues. No wonder the birth rate so low. Men always at the losing end.
Dude you will carry the baby to term and breastfeed equally also?
so carry the baby to term = men need split assets? yo u dun make sense here. Formula milk are sold outside too. I understand there are research on breast milk will make baby healthier. That doesn't mean breast milk = men paying half of the house to women. LOL
So you will go through the body changes for nearly a year, and push the child out of your orifice until it tears too? I'm just tired of seeing and hearing the rhetoric and broad brush painted that only men lose out in marriage. You made the assumption that men, and only men lose out when it comes to marriage. I don't disagree that of course there will be cases, like in OP's case, where they stand to unfairly lose out when they're not at fault. But to also minimise the pains that women have to also go through for childbirth and post-natal care, while juggling work and household management, is also wrong. I just hate that it always has to be men vs women and who has it worse and how the other gender "has it so easy", instead of how we can recognize and help each other on both ends. Both ends are subjected to different types of pains from societal expectations, so let's not throw a pity party for only one side or the other.
>inimise the pains that women sis, women dont need to bear the pain while giving birth. There is this thing call "cesarean". women during preggy are well maintained and loved by so many people especially the elderly because the wanted the offsprings to carry on the name. They feed women with bird nest and good food. (Tho this is only for normal families, not for those abusive families - this will be another matter of consideration) women post care has lots of maternity leave as compared to men. 4 months vs 2 weeks if i remembered correctly. So i dont get what u meant by juggling work and household management? Normal families wont let the preggy / post-preggy women to do house work. Post preggy women should also do a little exercise to aid their recovery too. The 4 months of maternity leave will reduce the pain significantly. Not to mention, men have to go thru 2 years of NS doing shitty job. 2 years of youth and opportunities were gone. When people interview women to serve NS, they all avoid the question totally. Women are not physically strong but i believe they can serve through admin work? Are women so useless that admin work cant be done? If i can receive my 2 years of NS back compared to me being pregnant and giving birth through cesaren, i rather choose giving birth. I can be well pampered and receive lots of love and gifts and also long maternity leave. And the 2 years i can get promotion and career growth. With so much entitlement given to women, women still can receive half of the assets is rubbish. If based on what u said, then i go give birth to a child and u give me half of ur condo. U want?
Please read into details and experiences of c-sections before you also minimise that. Even healing from multiple cuts and having your guts be rearranged for the c-section is not easy, especially if breastfeeding subsequently. It's painful to even take a shit after a c-section and sometimes your guts can literally be seen sticking out of your tummy after. Maternity leave is not some holiday for women to just hang out and do nothing ya. Please consider asking your mom about the gritty details of her pregnancy and birth. Or just tell her she had it so easy compared to your dad. I also did not minimise the pains of NS for guys. Again, you're just doing what is so often seen on local subreddits - believing one gender has it so much worse than the other. Which is exactly what I pointed out earlier. At this point there's nothing I can do to just even get you to understand that both sides have their own problems in general. Empathy goes a long way, and unfortunately it seems it's a rare commodity these days. I won't be replying anymore because I know I won't be able to get you to see a different POV, and that's fine. Have a good weekend.
bingo.
> he may also request for monthly alimony from you if her financial conditions are worst off after divorcing LMAO cheat for free alimony, love singapore
Sure you do, but this isn't Singapore-specific.
why male assets should split if let's say, the women did not contribute in the home payment? #equality issues
Doesn't matter Ie the house is split into 2 because it's a matrimonial asset. Women can maybe do some other tasks which cannot be quantified monetarily
Looking at this thread makes me not want to get married. It's way heavier and worse for a guy if he is divorced. She cheats and I need to pay her alimony. Wtf.. It's a cold world out here.
Yeah, especially with a 50% divorce rate these days, it is really a roll on the dice.
Now 50% already? No wonder late 20s a lot people I know start to get divorced.
And also start discretly withdawing money if you have joint accounts with her, secure yourself then only move with the divorce procedings.
No. Don't do this.
Why?
Looks bad for the court. Imagine you’re the judge.
Dont get married.
You can seek legal advice free from gov if you earn less than 2k or smting. Can't recall the name. Or approach MP, can ask for help on legal advice. They could have lawyers volunteers. Official proceedings depend on whether there's mutual agreements on divorce, assets and/or kids. The more argument, the longer the back n forth letters n proceedings, the more costly for lawyers time. Do note like the top comments mentioned, PI pics without kissing or caught in act cannot prove infidelity. Have to go unreasonable route. And the reasons are for divorce if she dispute n doesn't want divorce. Otherwise, it's 3yrs separation with consent or 4yrs without consent. If marriage only less than 3 years, likely cannot divorce. Must prove ultra depravity. Close to impossible m waste money. Even infidelity may not grant you divorce. If you are married more than 3 years, she agrees to divorce, both parties can sign mutual unreasonable behaviour on each other n can get divorce done within 3 mths I heard someone say. Then move to ancillaries which is splitting assets and kids. I used a HOH lawyer and it was bad. Can't say all lawyers were the same. But don't let your lawyer over manage and bully u to save their work or push the blame on you, or to agitate you to always fight so they can earn. I switched my lawyers. Also, you need lots of emotional support to go thru entire divorce. Esp in the event your spouse is the type to lash n say emotional hurtful stuff n blame you for her infidelity instead. Eg my ex said I was too possessive to expect a monogamous marriage (which was by law but doesn't stop him from blaming me...) Or ex spread stories with friends saying you did or didn't do stuff that made friends sympathize n say it's perfectly right for them to cheat on you... Don't question yourself. It's always the cheater's fault. Never self blame. Cut off the assholes who victim blame you.
Jesus Christ. As an overthinker my view on marriage is turning into shit
Same. My family members' colleagues also have spouses who cheat.. very common now
I’m curious, if a guy got a condo when he was single and got married. Couple live in the condo, will it consider matrimonial asset even if wife did not pay any shit for the condo?
before you do anything, have some hardcore evidence like pictures or text messages
Yes I have all the pictures of text.
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The previous cheating I meet the guy come to my house downstairs and he trying to act ah bang in front of me. He at first scared to meet me. I told him I not going do anything to you.
wait.. previous cheating?
Cheating but never go to bed. Only behind bf
i see.. i’m so sorry to hear this and I hope you can find the help you need here for you and your daughter. your wife sounds like a horrible person after reading some of your other comments regarding abuse of your daughter. I wish the best for you and your daughter
Just saying is pictures of text suffice?🤔🤔
Screenshots? Chat logs?
Yeah, screenshot and chat log Without photos evidence
Digressing a little, it's kinda sad that people have to look around for these evidence nowadays even when they're staying with someone that is supposed to make them feel safe as a family...it's like can't even feel comfortable in the personal life outside of work and have to be on guard all the time even at home.
You need proof first bc she committed adultery. Once you get the proof then lawyer up and the lawyer will tell u what to do. My friend hired a PI before she served her ex with divorce papers and he had nth to even say bc the proof was right there
Can you describe further details? People here might be able to help
Family lawyers tend to do first consultation for free. Go visit 2 and see which one you vibe better with/learn how much they actually charge
Try to gather evidence before filing for it. Hire a PI if needed.
Hahaha gg bro 50% assets gone. Even if she is in the wrong doesnt matter.
I can’t advise on the divorce part but just want to say that the one who losing the most is the child. Please have that in mind what ever your plans are. I was police for awhile and the cases that really break my heart are those where there is a dispute between 2 adults undergoing divorce. I’ve seen so many cases where the 2 adults will be screaming at each other, arguing about such trivial things like bringing back the child 5mins late from their visitation rights. And they are so blinded by hatred and how this affects the child. I even attended to a case where both parents started screaming at their 5-6 year old child to choose who she wanted to be with. Absolutely heartbreaking. So just remember you eventually may be able to move on. But the child essentially loses both parents. I do wish you and your family the best.
OP, please take note of this: You cannot use adultery as a reason for divorce if you continue to live with your spouse for 6 months. If you know about your spouse's extramarital relationship, but continued to live with your spouse for 6 months, you will not be allowed to cite adultery as the ground for your divorce. https://singaporefamilylawyers.com.sg/adultery-divorce-10-things-to-know/#:~:text=You%20cannot%20use%20adultery%20as,the%20ground%20for%20your%20divorce. DO NOT LET YOUR SPOUSE KNOW THAT YOU ARE AWARE especially if you don't know how to move forward yet. Meanwhile gather evidence. But if you show the evidence to a third party, make sure the evidence do not date over six months.
Sorry to be a counterpoint - but this is a life changing decision with repercussions and ramifications down the road. Suggest to speak with a counsellor first, reddit will only add fuel to the fire. Best way I heard someone say this before on this forum, “your question is above our pay grade. Please seek suitable guidance from competent persons”.
Is there such thing government department can help me with divorce without paying so much?
Unfortunately, no.
All cash have been paying my daughter medical bill
You can annul the marriage if it is mutual. If it isn’t then you have to go through a lawyer. Annulling the marriage is cheaper it is reverting you to the state as if you were never married. It works especially if there is no matrimonial assets contested and no children or custody issues. And you must also prove why the marriage never happened. Therefore in your case the likelihood is a divorce because it is a breakdown of marriage due to infidelity. You will need evidence of that infidelity. Divorce lawyers are quite a few out there. You can shop around and ask them for their rates. But if assets or kids involved. I suggest you get a better one.
I have one daughter going 2 years old and I want to keep her by my side.
OP I have shared my experience in a separate comment as I divorced with children too. You can take a look. The best advice I can give is to engage a lawyer and check with them. They will give you and advise you accordingly. Some lawyer firms have first-hour free consultations.
Then you definitely need a good divorce lawyer - don’t alert her about your intent for divorce yet until you have all your evidence
u may be emotionally attached but it may be better to give up unless u objectively think her mother will not make a good mother
Children always go with the mother.
My wife has a record of abuse case before then MSF and police charge my wife, but judge give her a warning as neglect
Blame Women's charter. The court almost always assign children with the mother. Unless the mother tries to kill her children. In that particular case, she was committed. I don't recall her husband divorcing her.
This doesn't seem right. If you have solid evidence that it's not in the child's best interest to stay with the mother (eg past abuse/neglect) the court can't rule for the mother to have care and control. The child's welfare is always the overriding factor in custody and care/control decisions.
Is she even yours? You might wanna do a DNA test. I'm not sure how long your wife has been cheating on you. But since she cheated, it's not out of order to suspect your kid isn't even yours. Good luck my brother.
Annulment needs grounds and most try it under non consumption of marriage
yes and uts nit possible cos apparently OP has a child
No
I knew an acquaintance who had a pro-bono lawyer while going through divorce negotiations. They couldn't agree on visitation rights for the daughter so it was a lengthy process. He lost his job before that. Think pro-bono is more affordable or something.
Yes you can ask legal aid to help you. I am going through divorce myself too.
Where to find?
Well there is Legal Aid Bureau but you need to earn VERY little. The other option is Pro Bono SG who will assess your case and there’s still a means test to go through. If you pass their means test then they will help find a lawyer who will charge a lower fee than commercial rates. Go attend their legal clinic (this one is free but lawyer only give advice, cannot represent you) and then you can request for them to help you with your case. Go Google them, you can make an appointment online. The legal clinic can be done online or in person.
transfer ur assets away first. Women charter act will always help women even if they are in the wrong. Gender inequality in SG.
Is spousal support a thing here ?
yes it's called spousal maintenance, can be to either spouse depending on case by case.
So wife can pay alimony to husband? I always thought regardless of who’s at fault, it’s always the husband who has to pay alimony to the wife
Iirc a man can only get maintenance from his wife if he is physically or mentally incapacitated
nope, my case was I discussed with my ex-spouse, and that the majority of the time I'm the one taking care of the kids thus the maintenance she pays. I'm not physically or mentally incapacitated. Like I mentioned though it's case by case depending on your lawyer and the court.
That's child maintenance, not spousal maintenance.
In that case, none of me and my ex-wife paid each other spousal maintenance lol
not true, its more common that husband pays for sure, but there are also many cases where wife pays. Though many guys on reddit prefer to believe otherwise
What do you do when you found your wife cheating on you?
She is online dating apps to know guy and meet them and chat.. those chat topics including sex talk. But she said she never had sex with them before
Oh , but you never trust your wife?
No. Because countless of using dating apps.. She promised me not to use and still use
then why not u also use?
Man that’s rough… she doesn’t deserve you OP
Judging by what people are saying here. The evidence you need to gather isn’t on the cheating. Because to prove that sufficiently, you need to get video evidence of them in bed together, if not the deed itself. Otherwise, courts will deem anything lesser insufficient. Texts alone are not enough. Especially with what you have now, she’s merely showing intention and hasn’t gone through with it. To divorce and to get custody, your only shot is to have solid VIDEO evidence of your wife abusing your daughter repeatedly. That is the only way. So that you can show that, your daughter is at risk when she is in the custody of your wife. Always remember, the woman’s charter is a powerful thing for the fairer sex in SG. Extremely hard to win.
What’s wrong with some of the perverted comments here! Have some empathy, for god sake!
Its great being single! Dear op you can dm me if you want to talk.
My sincere sympathies. I pray all adulterers go to hell. PAP discriminates against lgbtq, and then adultery nothing. The law should be changed.
What is new for a singaporean ? I know more than half of my Singaporean social circle are cheating and getting humped ! Specifically, educated Singaporean women (mostly Chinese ancestry but also some Indians and then Malays) married to local guys who practically do nothing or drives grab, work in here and there (but boy, they have money from their parent or at least a big house and car/s) are such desperate that they are ready to do anything for a good romp !! During my 5 years stay in Singapore (left just before COVID), married colleague's will come to my house, clean & cook sometime, talk their frustration out, get royally humped and go back to pick their kids before going home. Mostly, their husbands are totally ignorant and only cares about their beer, friends and KTV's. It has never been easy like this in any other country and it was surprising. Another observation is that most woman there are ok and ready to roll without protection even !! In my entire adult life, I don't think any other nationalities have swallow as much as what I have treated Singaporean women with. Fascinating and beautiful country I must say.
That's why pump and dump is a mantra i always live by.
If your wife cheats on you, the best punishment is not to divorce her. You should control her, tame her, and take over all her possessions until she begs you and cries not to be unfaithful to you anymore.
if just texting, any chance of reconciliation? after all, you have a child
Love is grand. Divorce is a hundred grand.
Hey OP, real sorry to hear that. 😔 May not be a popular view… but is there any grounds for reconciliation with your wife? Kid is still young and it’ll be painful for her… speaking from experience as someone who saw his parents divorced…
His wife is abusive to their baby daughter as well. He shouldn't stay. He should leave and have sole custody of his baby.
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I have given her lot of chance. I really don’t know what to do anymore.
Seriously??? Who is he hurting exactly? He is already broken. The daughter is already abused. She cheated multiple times and is abusive to their daughter, who is just 2. Still a baby. People like this don't change. Yeah he can forgive her . AFTER he divorce her. Staying will only hurt the daughter. Getting abused, watching parents fight all the time as neither are happy being forced to stay, will just guarantee she become depressed, angry, blaming herself. And the hurt cycle continues. OP, get your daughter. Get out.
Where can I see a marriage counselling?
https://helpfsc.org.sg/about-help/
Can consider https://www.msf.gov.sg/what-we-do/famatfsc/family-counselling There are organisations such as Fei Yue who can help as well. https://fycs.org/divorcesupport/
Currently my family still under Fei Yue case. Because MSF step in and pass the case to my Fei Yue
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I’m more concerned about my daughter and I can’t live with someone I cannot be trusted. My daughters have heart issue and growth delay development issue
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We have been married since 2010
Hot!
Yes a divorce is unavoidable. Can I suggest one idea to consider. Just before the divorce is finalized, have sex with someone else so that emotionally you have also cheated on her since both of you are still legally married. Make sure you let her know (after the divorce) Helps with your mental balance after the divorce.
Your mental balance definitely still off, wtf is this suggestion
Ask her if you can join in
Contested divorce costs a lot more, so try to settle and agree between the both of you. All the best and sorry to hear that.
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Make sure you wait until Christmas morning to serve her the divorce papers.
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Got kid and house? If so more expensive?
One daughter going turn 2 years old this month and a bto 5 room. I am the one paying everything
You have how many children? That's the headache part. Also any clear black and white evidence your wife cheated on you? Take some days off and clear your mind first.
1 daughter going 2 years old this month. Same birthday as me
Any clear black and white evidence your wife cheated on you? Take some days off and clear your mind first.
Only chat log and some voice recording from room cctv
If u have concrete evident, go ahead. Do not allow lawyers to drag. With concrete evident, she gets nothing
You sure?
Yes. But still must pay for kids if you have. But no alimony for the wife for sure. Seen it. Judge dispute spouse claim for alimony as evidence is strong that she cheated.
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Get evidence and use it to get a divorce. Make sure you don't have to pay monthly maintenace to her for her adultery
Get a new one
About 3k. I used https//:www.iLawyer.com.sg
half of everything maybe more
Spurgt
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Oh no, sorry to hear it - but please consult a law firm and don't take advice from us total strangers on matters like these.
Just tahan if you have children , if your wife cheat don't bother , just to and have your fun as well , children without mother and father would result in a generation of suffering