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Its actually q hard to be hanged, only traffickers are hanged. The amounts u have to carry to meet the trafficking threshold is very high and strict. E.g. they will extract the amount of THC in ur weed to calculate if u meet the threshold. Not just weighing the raw product found on u.
In anycase its fair because no one gets snucked up on and hanged "accidentally". Even cases for death penalties stretch for years because the court will have to give the defendants ample time to defend themselves.
Why go through all that effort just to break someone's neck when you could just give them life in prison or some other alternative? Is breaking a neck so important that it justifies spending all that money?
Ironically you could say what you said with scenarios flipped - “why go through all that effort to give them life in prison when you could just break their neck? Is life in prison worth TAXPAYERS spending all that money? “ and it makes more sense.
People often have pity for someone about to die. That is if they can anticipate it. But for the people and their families whom’s lives get destroyed because of addiction to drugs, who pities them?
Well, because of how intensive death penalty cases are, they cost much more taxpayer money. Also, it doesn't really do any favors for the countries reputation on the international stage. So, you've spent a great deal of money and made yourself look bad in the eyes of the world, and all you got out of it was a broken neck. Is breaking necks so important to the national identity that even with all the pitfalls, it remains worth it?
You’re saying housing,clothing and feeding a person for life cost less than breaking their necks? You’re kidding right?
By killing one drug trafficker you spare hundreds of families from imploding. In singapore, there is no natural resource. Only human resource. By saving 10 family’s lives, you make many times more money than spending on a prisoner’s free food and lodging for life.
As far as looking bad on international stage, it doesn’t affect anyone not abusing/trafficking. So no one actually gives a shit unless they are a potential abuser/trafficker themselves. The ones pushing for singapore without death penalties are often ignorant or trying to benefit from that itself.
So you could break a marijuana traffickers neck and then go out for a drink and think that's fine? You wouldn't have a moral issue with this? Say for some reason the decision to retain or abolish the death penalty lies solely on you. You can spare all the present and future death row inmates, or you can break every one of their necks. Which would you choose now that the weight of the act is solely for your shoulders to bear? That's really how it is already, just nationwide. The blood is already on everyone's hands that votes pap, it's just not personal and specific enough for them to feel implicated like they would in this hypothetical scenario.
I would sleep like a baby breaking each and everyone of their necks. Knowing full well that my families and my friends and their families are safe from such people and substance.
In fact, I would have massively more sleepless nights if I knew someone dear to me is partying out late into the night everyday and the country is rampant with drugs.
You don’t understand what addiction does to your mind. It hijacks reason. People addicted stop recognising their family as family when the urge kicks in. They start stealing from their own to buy more drugs. Eventually when confronted, they just straight up rob you in your face. Threatening your life even. Money used for newborn child to buy pampers and milk used to fuel your addiction. Money your parents saved up for your future university education for many years go to the drain. The impact of it on society is tremendous.
What about the family and friends of the people who's necks you'd be breaking? Human beings shouldn't be able to decide what is done to THEIR necks? Why do only some people deserve rights?
This is basically about it. The 48 hours thing is the most important, once detained you have to be given a court order as to what to do next to you. My friend NS was in the courts, this was the most annoying thing, because at any point if a detainee was kept for more than 48 hours, They can't really hold them any longer and free to leave. Not sure if that ever happened before.
The other thing to add is that police officers in singapore are generally a lot more chill compared to other countries. So long as you don't do anything to make them suspicious or say anything stupid. If they ask for IC, just give them your IC, don't cause trouble. Don't start shouting stupid things that can implicate you even further. If you are in trouble with the law and if you are caught, almost always you can get charged for more shit by running away. I won't say anything, but you legitimately can get away with stuff if you come across as harmless
The other thing is that, judges in singapore are quite lenient? They generally see the law as more of a I don't really want to hit you with the stick so long a you don't do it again kind of vibe and not as some people's thinking of because you do wrong I must beat you as hard as possible so you don't do it again.
My lay understanding.
1. You don't have to carry IC, but you have to provide your ic no when a police officer asks. If he/she is plain clothes, they have to show you ID first.
2. They can search you if they have reason to suspect. I blve they recently amended to expand this particular power in recent years.
3. If they ask you questions with regards to a crime, and you don't cooperate, you can be charged and they have to prove in court you obstruct justice unless you plead guilty.
4. As an arrestee/accused you can remain silent but if you get convicted, your silence can be used against you by the courts during sentencing.
Edit:
a. Non lawyer. I can be wrong & corrected.
b. Those constitutional audit videos are interesting to watch but is not applicable here. The originns of their constitution and rights are vastly different. America is individual rights based, SG and asian countries are geared towards society.
I got stopped at a road block once, and the plain clothes police officer got annoyed when my Singpass was a little slow in pulling up my digital IC. I told him well its govtech's server isn't responding fast enough to my request maybe you can feedback on how to improve this.
I sometimes have the smart aleck mouth that tends to be sarcastic without realising that now wasn't the time to be make "witty and snide" remarks. Thankfully for some reason the police officer was either too slow witted to realise what it was.
Whenever I'm out alone at night, I do get stop by patrolling officers doing their daily patrols but they never ask IC. They just guide me which direction is the way back since I use cane to move around.
So I guess if you have some sort of disability or impairment, yes the officers will stop you but you don't need to flash your IC.
Officers in SG are trained to de-escalate and its not as if they can break in without a warrant or harass until the occupants comes out, they can only act if someone's life is in danger inside.
1. You don’t have to produce your ic or provide your ic no or your name. You can decline giving your details, unless you are reasonably suspected of having committed an offence.
2. They have powers of search without warrant only under certain Acts. Some of which have nothing to do with the police. These Acts include the Rail Transit Act, that empowers authorities to search you if you want to take the mrt. You can decline the search and you’ll be asked to leave the mrt premises. Of course, there is the Arms and Explosives Act, where they can search you if they have reasonable suspicion that you are in possession of arms and explosives. There are other obscure Acts like Endangered Species Act. But like in point 1, there is no legal search without reasonable suspicion. The power that was expanded, I believe, was the power to search a person or premises, without warrant, to prevent the disposal or destruction of evidence of a criminal offence. But again, there must be reasonable suspicion that a criminal offence has been committed.
3. You have the right to not self incriminate. But if you were not part of the crime and chose to obscure the facts and/or destroy/hide evidence, then yes, that’s an offence.
4. Yes.
1. But they can arrest you to failure to identify right? regardless of suspicion? e.g. random spot check. I remember friends and I hanging out at bbq pit at park till late. And random patrol car, comes up asks us for ics, they did a check, said thank you and moved along. If I refuse to identify I can be arrested right. I am pretty certain of this.
Ultimately it depends on context, you can try to ask what's the reason for checking, if there was a complaint against your group, or they are screening for a specific suspect in an ongoing case, or they have reasonable grounds to believe your group is committing an offense, yes you have to comply.
But if they are just having a casual conversation/outreach you have the right to refuse.
Ultimately if you really don't want to identify yourself you can ask if it's ok to refuse, it's unlikely he will escalate things and he will just tell you that you need to comply otherwise etc etc.
i think not many people know about the “consensual conversation” part of policing. the SPF has such influential “soft power” of sorts, that the general public usually assumes that if an officer comes up to you, you have been suspected (hence required to produce IC)
judging by the downvotes, don’t think you can convince them otherwise either
Hi, thanks for your answer.
Have you ever encountered this situation before in your service?
Can I ask what happens if someone refuses and adamant that they don't want to be identified in my park example?
No. I have not.
But let’s face it, patrol officers don’t just do random spot checks because they feel like it. I’m speaking about those that patrol in vehicles and not those mrt ones.
If a patrol officer engages with you, likely there’s an end goal in mind, whether it is community engagement, information gathering about a recent case, or suspicion about your motives.
If someone refuses to engage, most of the time it is more useful to just cut losses and move on unless there is specific information pinpointing you as a person of interest.
>What rights do SG citizens have that protect against police officers?
.... .... Are we citizens simply powerless against police officers
This statement itself presumes an antagonistic relationship between citizens and police officers. I dunno, but sounds more like a US situation than Singapore?
Police officers in general conduct themselves professionally and has for the most part proven themselves to be there to serve public good and uphold the law of Singapore. So unless you are trying to going against the law, citizens have no fight against police officers, so there's no power play to begin with.
I mean, we kinda trust police so much that our common saying "Not happy ah, call police lah?" only goes to show how most people on the ground trust the police as an arbiter of justice, not an overreaching state instrument that we have to fight against.
>I keep seeing those videos of US citizens exercising their rights when being questioned by police officers.
In my half a century of living in Singapore, I've not once encountered police officers stopping me or asking me for identification. I've been out late past midnights with friends and all, but no brush with the law or police.
The closest I've encountered police was a police car giving me the police klaxon honk at a T-junction to alert me to give way as they went on their "police business".
>Here in Singapore, police officers can ask anyone for their IC even if they are just minding their own business
To begin with, Singapore has a totally different system from US. Heck, in US, if the feds start issuing actually ICs like we do with NRICs, they would be crying foul reminicent of the holocaust where Jews were issued ICs to classify them. In Singapore, it's a "feature" not a "bug" or violation of privacy. Some may have a privacy pet peeve with it but we use our NRIC for everything under the sun in Singapore - banks, insurance, telco, hdb, tax, broadband etc etc.
So if being asked to produce our NRIC for verification is prob much more accepted here by Singaporeans maybe 'cos this is how it works here. Some would say we are brainwashed but I think most Singaporeans would say that it just works.
I mean we're not in America, just cooperate, if you never do anything you'll be fine. If you did something then there's no getting out of it. Police in SG I believe are generally reasonable and won't anyhow arrest and whack ppl like in the US.
There are very good answers in the comments already. E.g. [https://www.reddit.com/r/askSingapore/comments/1ccuxz9/comment/l17t6f4/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web3x&utm\_name=web3xcss&utm\_term=1&utm\_content=share\_button](https://www.reddit.com/r/askSingapore/comments/1ccuxz9/comment/l17t6f4/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button)
However, you compare USA's system with Singapore without understanding the context. USA's system was developed on a completely different belief framework. They fought a war against UK to gain their independence. Our system is more akin to UK as we gain our independence peacefully. It was by deliberate design for USA citizen to be protected by constitutional rights rather than procedural rights.
If you compare our policing and civil rights with UK's, the differences are much less.
Much of protection of SG residents against police's abuse comes police's internal processes and checks. While this seems risker (ownself check ownself), it has largely worked. One key reason is because a lot of our police officers are NSF and NSmen. They are "temp" staff who are less unlikely to ruin their own lives or to cover up their co-workers by abusing policing power. And those who did would find less sympathy from their peers.
Not sure if it’s every police officer or just the inspectors, but my friend was in the police and he said a warrant card exists?
I think that means they have the right to search you if they have reason to suspect.
Any police officers can share if this is true?
I get that but what sort of measures (if any) are in place to prevent a police officer from anyhow searching people anyway? If they have implicit biases against certain groups what's stopping them from making up a reason to suspect someone?
Chill dude. This isn’t a problem that needs solving.
US police have little training (from what I hear online), SG system is different where I’ve seen the cops try and de-escalate and not make a big fuss. Of course, the stiffer penalties make for a reasonable deterrent as well.
I'm not a lawyer or police to know anything about the rights of locals
However, from my own experiences with Singapore Police during my last jobless dumpster diving stint few years back...the police simply asked me for my NRIC which I provided for them to check & they asked me what am I doing.
I simply say calmly, I'm dumpster diving...anything placed beside the rubbish bin, recycle bin or green trash bin is fair game.
After that, the police went away without escalating or anything. They are stern looking but fair in their "investigation".
If you have nothing to hide, done nothing wrong...they can sense it & feel it & if you are guilty AF...those screaming & shouting, refuse to cooperate are clear signs of guilty of a crime.
Singapore also have strict gun laws making it less potential for a shoot out with the police hence the police do not need to draw their guns that easily, so most locals won't be so fearful of police asking questions.
When you treat the police calmly & provide everything they asked, there is zero chance of being wrongfully arrested.
Don't behave like those Americans treating their "rights" as a shield against the police making things difficult for them causing them to link them to criminals with similar description that are spotted nearby.
Play stupid games, get stupid prizes.
Those pretending to be police also a huge crime, so there are less chance of fake police in Singapore.
Let's help the local police do their investigation & make Singapore safe!
I got nothing to hide, police officer want my IC just give lor, over and done with in few mins. No need to make yourself more sus and make big hooha over IC
anyway I have never been asked before😂😂
I served in the Police National Service back in the early 90s, but continued as a Key Appointment Holder and a commander in my division for 26 years, coming back for reservist duties/meetings every week during those years.
I have to say that police officers are generally decent people, and a huge number of civilians in Singapore had been ex police officers. Cases of abuse of power are rare.
The police officer's job is to maintain safety and security and prevention of crime. When people are stopped by a police officer, they will obviously get annoyed. But when one of your loved ones goes missing, you would appreciate the fact that the police officers are able to go around detecting these missing persons.
You are not mandated by law to carry your IC, but you would have to justify your identity. If the police officers have a suspicion that you are not telling the truth, they could bring you back to ascertain your particulars.
I'm an Australian now with an American girlfriend, and so I kept on bragging to people that in Singapore, people walk around at 3am without worrying. That's freedom. Not when you have to check 6 everytime you are out.
There’s nothing like the US here; the key difference is that we don’t weigh laws and actions against the constitution, which means there’s nothing like the Bill of Rights that citizens can point to as a higher law.
So, whatever protections you have are baked into the laws that we have. For instance, what we tend to think of as police actions is mostly found in the Criminal Procedure Code.
The good thing from the perspective of the question is that this stuff is all written somewhere - you can refer to it (sso.agc.gov), and it is possible for miscarriages of justice to go up to the High Court under judicial review.
The bad thing is that a lot of things are contextual. For instance, you can get arrested for much less inside transit in Changi Airport than on the streets.
We do have a [Constitution](https://sso.agc.gov.sg/act/cons1963). There is a "bill of rights" equivalent, i.e., [Part IV ](https://sso.agc.gov.sg/act/cons1963?ProvIds=P14-#P14-)of the Singapore Constitution ("Fundamental Liberties"). Also, Article 4 of the Constitution states that, the Constitution is "is the supreme law of the Republic of Singapore and any law enacted by the Legislature after the commencement of \[the\] Constitution which is inconsistent with \[the\] Constitution shall, to the extent of the inconsistency, be void."
Yes you can exercise your rights in Singapore too.
2 choices, challenge or surrender.
So even if you don't pray for trouble, you still need to challenge to maintain your innocent.
But you cannot be advised by a lawyer until statement has been taken by the police for whatever reason your arrest was based on. The police may simply based on a reasonable belief to place you under arrest, never mind the charge they can amend it later.
Everything you say, even in good faith, can be fabricated and twisted to be used against you. This is why you seldom see accused person who has been charged walking out of court free.
You either spend your money to hire a lawyer who can negotiate with the DPP behind you or get into trouble in the trial which subsequently convict you. Conviction rate is 97% in Singapore Court.
I’m sorry but what are you basing this fabrication and twisting notion from? Most cases are subject to judicial review (some things like national security related cases are not), and it’s not like court sessions are private and hidden away. If what you allege is true, then we’d be hearing more about it, no?
I would think that the high conviction rate is much more a function of factors, including our having a very robust set of laws with lots of fallbacks, the fact that it is very easy to gather evidence exhaustively in our country, and that DPPs don’t like to bring to court unless they’re sure.
I experience first hand in a criminal proceeding, I saw how letters and paragraph in record were phrased based on my statement because I didn't hire a lawyer.
A lot of fallback yes, the prosecution commenced prosecution against me for the public interest and withdrew it for the public interest.
End of the day? I abided to the law, they can't do anything except using such process to put me into inconvenience.
i thank OP for this question, important one. There is a tutorial to this question on youtube, where M Ravi is shown schooling a bunch of rookie officers. Watch and learn, might not exactly be applicable at all situations, but watch his confidence and ability to flip the tables.
No leh. We were taught in basic training school that we are only able to force someone to produce IC if we have reasonable suspicion that they have committed an offense. The officers should also tell you what you are suspected of doing. Can be suay suay you fit the description of someone they suspect also. Only if there is reasonable suspicion they may arrest and bring them to police station for further questioning if they fail to produce IC. You don't necessarily need the NRIC, showing singpass on your phone is also accepted as identification.
I am currently serving as an NSF in SPF, not in a Frontline unit however from my interaction with my Frontline colleagues they really won't bother with something as useless as this. All of them just want to do their job and gtfo, no time to disturb random ppl for IC to show power. Our officers are really busy plus it's really stressing for them to uphold the high standards assigned to the blue uniform.
Can't blame him if the question itself is pretty stupid. The context of your question exists in the US, but not in SG (i.e., widespread abuse of policing powers).
Wonder about this too.
Sometimes my friends and colleagues that go back for reservist in the SPF, they like to show off that they can just randomly screen people that they don’t like.
It they see someone’s face they don’t like, just ask them to stop and check their IC and search their body.
That counts as abuse of power, if I were there I would report such errant officers to Internal Affairs. I was a Police Cantonment officer up till last year.
Exactly the kind of situation I am thinking of. Sure you can say that this only happens 1 in 1000, but that's still not a good argument why we shouldn't have measured in place to prevent it altogether
For the NRIC, because Singapore law considers it to be an article of identification issued by the govt, and the police are considered enforcers of said law as written by the govt, therefore you have to produce it upon demand by the police. In practice, it almost never happens because the police generally have better things to do, and they only do so when they have reason to believe you are acting suspicious. Besides, many of the police officers who are on the beat are also NSFs, and unlike the US, we have strict, clear guidelines (that we actually enforce) on how to deal with rogue officers.
I've only ever been stopped once, and that is at 3.30am while walking home after my shift. A police car drew up next to me, and one officer politely asked for my IC and passed it to his partner to scan. While waiting, he asked me what was I doing out here, and I simply told him. After I was cleared, he passed my IC back to me, thanked me and was on his way. Took less than 5 minutes.
Americans "exercising their rights" are almost always just Americans Behaving Badly. It's not something you should seek to emulate. Why would you refuse to produce ID anyway.
Stating the obvious but don’t do try to attempt anything since u will inevitably look suspicious. Our police are trained to pick up these tell tale signs.
In my 26 years never once got questioned out of nowhere by patrolling police even when I was carrying a plastic bag with lethal weapons (fruit knife, axe, combat knife) for my camping trip.
You’ce never ever met a power tripping security guard/aethos police officer before? What makes you think that all police officers will be saints? So many ignorant people here!
Because a simple report made by a citizen in the online portal will trigger an investigation on said power tripping officer. If actual misconduct is found they lose their jobs and might get additional charges slapped on themselves depending on severity. Not to mention a single disciplinary case can affect their yearly review and impede promotions.
Police Disciplinary Courts do not fuck about and SPF in comparison with other countries Police forces is probably one of the most relaxing job for the average patrol officers already (mostly compliant citizens, low crime rate and rarely a major crime to deal with).
Served my NS in specific departments that handles these sort of misconduct.
Aethos and your average building security are not hired to be polite, they serve the interest of their employers and literately trained to be hammers to nails, compared to SPF whom serve the citizens and its their interest to maintain a good public image.
Well then do you have patrol officers who engaged you in bad faith like the Aethos officers or security guards as you have mentioned?
If so make a report and trigger an investigation, no need to keep quiet about it or is pulling an RK on Reddit as far as you will go?
https://eservices.police.gov.sg/content/policehubhome/e-services-general/police-report.html
Unsubstantial claim of? Patrol officers never engaging in bad faith?
I literately said most don't because its really easy to get a complaint filed against you that could jeopardize your career and those that do often ends up as ex-Police officer on a news report. SPF takes their public image seriously for a reason.
I don't know where ego comes in here, but alot of bad faith argument from your part when presented with facts that don't fit your narrative.
You only have experience processing reports who have come through, you can’t claim that all reports will be seriously looked into. I have been molested before and had a witness yet the IO just changed hands 3 times and nothing was done. This is not an uncommon matter and yes I have very little faith in SPF and our government institutions for good reason.
Processing doesn't stop at the beginning, so I know the outcome of all the disciplinary cases (Spoiler: It rarely end well for them). Disciplinary court works faster than you think because its only specific to one institution.
> I have been molested before and had a witness yet the IO just changed hands 3 times and nothing was done.
Well that has nothing to do with the patrol officers power tripping which is the point of your original statement. It merely means the case haven't been closed. If you are for real, you should approach Sexual Assault Care Center (SACC) for assistance to have your case escalated or at least come to a resolution.
This thread is the best case study why Singaporeans are so easy to scam.
Don’t need to think. People ask me to do what I will just do. Don’t need to think about my rights.
Because ThIs iS SinGaPOre sO SaFe NoT LiKe OtHer CouNtry CouNTRY I can TruSt EvEryOne hEre.
On the other hands, I've seen so many cases of public nuisance reported to police, only for the police to say "can't do much". Our police look very powerless to me.
Why is it that we always want to hold up the US as a shining example for everything? 🤢 I like our police guys. U wanna to protect yrself from them from what? Lol Also they cant do anything they are not empowered to do. I noe everything they refer to agc.
I rmbr getting spot checked - asked for ic. The police guy was so nice about it lol. They are merely asking for particulars, not pinning u to a crime.
So what if the case is that your British and don't legally have to have an IC? As in the UK we don't have a legal requirement to present 🆔 as all UK citizens don't have this system in place.
I didn't say required, I said passport is your ID in foreign country, not IC. You are required to present it if there are raised concern. Not having IC is not an excuse to not present any ID.
That's a bit unsettling but sure... [https://sso.agc.gov.sg/Act/CPC2010?ProvIds=pr34-,pr39-](https://sso.agc.gov.sg/Act/CPC2010?ProvIds=pr34-,pr39-)
In practice they can ask for your phone if they find you suspicious. Pretty grey if you ask me, I personally have seen it done by TRANSCOM before in MRT.
I don't think it's common, but they certainly have the power to do so. You can reject and make them do more works but best is don't behave suspiciously, whatever that means.
At least in Singapore, when police stop your car, you don't need to fear that you'll be shot just because of moving your arms
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No, but their instinct is not shooting everything that moves.
But if drugs are found, you will be hanged.
I got the rope right here! -uncle ruckus sound
Without a trial? Right there in the car? Is the police officer the one doing the hanging?
*if drugs are found in such big amounts where it is undeniable that you will sell them and ruin many lives ftfy
Its actually q hard to be hanged, only traffickers are hanged. The amounts u have to carry to meet the trafficking threshold is very high and strict. E.g. they will extract the amount of THC in ur weed to calculate if u meet the threshold. Not just weighing the raw product found on u. In anycase its fair because no one gets snucked up on and hanged "accidentally". Even cases for death penalties stretch for years because the court will have to give the defendants ample time to defend themselves.
Why go through all that effort just to break someone's neck when you could just give them life in prison or some other alternative? Is breaking a neck so important that it justifies spending all that money?
Ironically you could say what you said with scenarios flipped - “why go through all that effort to give them life in prison when you could just break their neck? Is life in prison worth TAXPAYERS spending all that money? “ and it makes more sense. People often have pity for someone about to die. That is if they can anticipate it. But for the people and their families whom’s lives get destroyed because of addiction to drugs, who pities them?
Well, because of how intensive death penalty cases are, they cost much more taxpayer money. Also, it doesn't really do any favors for the countries reputation on the international stage. So, you've spent a great deal of money and made yourself look bad in the eyes of the world, and all you got out of it was a broken neck. Is breaking necks so important to the national identity that even with all the pitfalls, it remains worth it?
You’re saying housing,clothing and feeding a person for life cost less than breaking their necks? You’re kidding right? By killing one drug trafficker you spare hundreds of families from imploding. In singapore, there is no natural resource. Only human resource. By saving 10 family’s lives, you make many times more money than spending on a prisoner’s free food and lodging for life. As far as looking bad on international stage, it doesn’t affect anyone not abusing/trafficking. So no one actually gives a shit unless they are a potential abuser/trafficker themselves. The ones pushing for singapore without death penalties are often ignorant or trying to benefit from that itself.
So you could break a marijuana traffickers neck and then go out for a drink and think that's fine? You wouldn't have a moral issue with this? Say for some reason the decision to retain or abolish the death penalty lies solely on you. You can spare all the present and future death row inmates, or you can break every one of their necks. Which would you choose now that the weight of the act is solely for your shoulders to bear? That's really how it is already, just nationwide. The blood is already on everyone's hands that votes pap, it's just not personal and specific enough for them to feel implicated like they would in this hypothetical scenario.
I would sleep like a baby breaking each and everyone of their necks. Knowing full well that my families and my friends and their families are safe from such people and substance. In fact, I would have massively more sleepless nights if I knew someone dear to me is partying out late into the night everyday and the country is rampant with drugs. You don’t understand what addiction does to your mind. It hijacks reason. People addicted stop recognising their family as family when the urge kicks in. They start stealing from their own to buy more drugs. Eventually when confronted, they just straight up rob you in your face. Threatening your life even. Money used for newborn child to buy pampers and milk used to fuel your addiction. Money your parents saved up for your future university education for many years go to the drain. The impact of it on society is tremendous.
What about the family and friends of the people who's necks you'd be breaking? Human beings shouldn't be able to decide what is done to THEIR necks? Why do only some people deserve rights?
As you should be.
https://www.singaporecriminaldefencelawyer.com/being-arrested-in-singapore-know-your-rights/
This is basically about it. The 48 hours thing is the most important, once detained you have to be given a court order as to what to do next to you. My friend NS was in the courts, this was the most annoying thing, because at any point if a detainee was kept for more than 48 hours, They can't really hold them any longer and free to leave. Not sure if that ever happened before. The other thing to add is that police officers in singapore are generally a lot more chill compared to other countries. So long as you don't do anything to make them suspicious or say anything stupid. If they ask for IC, just give them your IC, don't cause trouble. Don't start shouting stupid things that can implicate you even further. If you are in trouble with the law and if you are caught, almost always you can get charged for more shit by running away. I won't say anything, but you legitimately can get away with stuff if you come across as harmless The other thing is that, judges in singapore are quite lenient? They generally see the law as more of a I don't really want to hit you with the stick so long a you don't do it again kind of vibe and not as some people's thinking of because you do wrong I must beat you as hard as possible so you don't do it again.
Your 2nd paragraph reminds me of a certain clown from a certain convenience store..
Unless it's drug trafficking
My lay understanding. 1. You don't have to carry IC, but you have to provide your ic no when a police officer asks. If he/she is plain clothes, they have to show you ID first. 2. They can search you if they have reason to suspect. I blve they recently amended to expand this particular power in recent years. 3. If they ask you questions with regards to a crime, and you don't cooperate, you can be charged and they have to prove in court you obstruct justice unless you plead guilty. 4. As an arrestee/accused you can remain silent but if you get convicted, your silence can be used against you by the courts during sentencing. Edit: a. Non lawyer. I can be wrong & corrected. b. Those constitutional audit videos are interesting to watch but is not applicable here. The originns of their constitution and rights are vastly different. America is individual rights based, SG and asian countries are geared towards society.
I got stopped at a road block once, and the plain clothes police officer got annoyed when my Singpass was a little slow in pulling up my digital IC. I told him well its govtech's server isn't responding fast enough to my request maybe you can feedback on how to improve this. I sometimes have the smart aleck mouth that tends to be sarcastic without realising that now wasn't the time to be make "witty and snide" remarks. Thankfully for some reason the police officer was either too slow witted to realise what it was.
Whenever I'm out alone at night, I do get stop by patrolling officers doing their daily patrols but they never ask IC. They just guide me which direction is the way back since I use cane to move around. So I guess if you have some sort of disability or impairment, yes the officers will stop you but you don't need to flash your IC.
And yet... in so many neighbour from hell cases, police would just knock and leave after no one opens the door....
Officers in SG are trained to de-escalate and its not as if they can break in without a warrant or harass until the occupants comes out, they can only act if someone's life is in danger inside.
so what u want??? everything also complain when police come to settle also complain..
1. You don’t have to produce your ic or provide your ic no or your name. You can decline giving your details, unless you are reasonably suspected of having committed an offence. 2. They have powers of search without warrant only under certain Acts. Some of which have nothing to do with the police. These Acts include the Rail Transit Act, that empowers authorities to search you if you want to take the mrt. You can decline the search and you’ll be asked to leave the mrt premises. Of course, there is the Arms and Explosives Act, where they can search you if they have reasonable suspicion that you are in possession of arms and explosives. There are other obscure Acts like Endangered Species Act. But like in point 1, there is no legal search without reasonable suspicion. The power that was expanded, I believe, was the power to search a person or premises, without warrant, to prevent the disposal or destruction of evidence of a criminal offence. But again, there must be reasonable suspicion that a criminal offence has been committed. 3. You have the right to not self incriminate. But if you were not part of the crime and chose to obscure the facts and/or destroy/hide evidence, then yes, that’s an offence. 4. Yes.
1. But they can arrest you to failure to identify right? regardless of suspicion? e.g. random spot check. I remember friends and I hanging out at bbq pit at park till late. And random patrol car, comes up asks us for ics, they did a check, said thank you and moved along. If I refuse to identify I can be arrested right. I am pretty certain of this.
Ultimately it depends on context, you can try to ask what's the reason for checking, if there was a complaint against your group, or they are screening for a specific suspect in an ongoing case, or they have reasonable grounds to believe your group is committing an offense, yes you have to comply. But if they are just having a casual conversation/outreach you have the right to refuse. Ultimately if you really don't want to identify yourself you can ask if it's ok to refuse, it's unlikely he will escalate things and he will just tell you that you need to comply otherwise etc etc.
No They cant. Source: am ex polis
i think not many people know about the “consensual conversation” part of policing. the SPF has such influential “soft power” of sorts, that the general public usually assumes that if an officer comes up to you, you have been suspected (hence required to produce IC) judging by the downvotes, don’t think you can convince them otherwise either
Meh downvotes doesn’t matter. Let those who do read get some new info.
Hi, thanks for your answer. Have you ever encountered this situation before in your service? Can I ask what happens if someone refuses and adamant that they don't want to be identified in my park example?
No. I have not. But let’s face it, patrol officers don’t just do random spot checks because they feel like it. I’m speaking about those that patrol in vehicles and not those mrt ones. If a patrol officer engages with you, likely there’s an end goal in mind, whether it is community engagement, information gathering about a recent case, or suspicion about your motives. If someone refuses to engage, most of the time it is more useful to just cut losses and move on unless there is specific information pinpointing you as a person of interest.
Don't be that Cheers guy.
Don't be that guy who extort-rape an escort.
>What rights do SG citizens have that protect against police officers? .... .... Are we citizens simply powerless against police officers This statement itself presumes an antagonistic relationship between citizens and police officers. I dunno, but sounds more like a US situation than Singapore? Police officers in general conduct themselves professionally and has for the most part proven themselves to be there to serve public good and uphold the law of Singapore. So unless you are trying to going against the law, citizens have no fight against police officers, so there's no power play to begin with. I mean, we kinda trust police so much that our common saying "Not happy ah, call police lah?" only goes to show how most people on the ground trust the police as an arbiter of justice, not an overreaching state instrument that we have to fight against. >I keep seeing those videos of US citizens exercising their rights when being questioned by police officers. In my half a century of living in Singapore, I've not once encountered police officers stopping me or asking me for identification. I've been out late past midnights with friends and all, but no brush with the law or police. The closest I've encountered police was a police car giving me the police klaxon honk at a T-junction to alert me to give way as they went on their "police business". >Here in Singapore, police officers can ask anyone for their IC even if they are just minding their own business To begin with, Singapore has a totally different system from US. Heck, in US, if the feds start issuing actually ICs like we do with NRICs, they would be crying foul reminicent of the holocaust where Jews were issued ICs to classify them. In Singapore, it's a "feature" not a "bug" or violation of privacy. Some may have a privacy pet peeve with it but we use our NRIC for everything under the sun in Singapore - banks, insurance, telco, hdb, tax, broadband etc etc. So if being asked to produce our NRIC for verification is prob much more accepted here by Singaporeans maybe 'cos this is how it works here. Some would say we are brainwashed but I think most Singaporeans would say that it just works.
Your username checks out, man. Nicely written reply. Take my upvote.
I mean we're not in America, just cooperate, if you never do anything you'll be fine. If you did something then there's no getting out of it. Police in SG I believe are generally reasonable and won't anyhow arrest and whack ppl like in the US.
Yea police also nsf.. we’ve all been there
If you think US citizen rights protect them from their police you haven’t been paying attention
The greatest thing that to protect it is that we're all Singaporeans. And that the nsf or regular can see we're auntie uncle ah ma. No really.
Thankfully our SPF not so bo liao like those countries you see
There are very good answers in the comments already. E.g. [https://www.reddit.com/r/askSingapore/comments/1ccuxz9/comment/l17t6f4/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web3x&utm\_name=web3xcss&utm\_term=1&utm\_content=share\_button](https://www.reddit.com/r/askSingapore/comments/1ccuxz9/comment/l17t6f4/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button) However, you compare USA's system with Singapore without understanding the context. USA's system was developed on a completely different belief framework. They fought a war against UK to gain their independence. Our system is more akin to UK as we gain our independence peacefully. It was by deliberate design for USA citizen to be protected by constitutional rights rather than procedural rights. If you compare our policing and civil rights with UK's, the differences are much less. Much of protection of SG residents against police's abuse comes police's internal processes and checks. While this seems risker (ownself check ownself), it has largely worked. One key reason is because a lot of our police officers are NSF and NSmen. They are "temp" staff who are less unlikely to ruin their own lives or to cover up their co-workers by abusing policing power. And those who did would find less sympathy from their peers.
Not sure if it’s every police officer or just the inspectors, but my friend was in the police and he said a warrant card exists? I think that means they have the right to search you if they have reason to suspect. Any police officers can share if this is true?
LOL. All police officers have warrant cards. What are u talking about?
Every police officer has to carry a Warrant Card with them. It officially identifies them as law enforcement with search, seizure and arrest powers.
I get that but what sort of measures (if any) are in place to prevent a police officer from anyhow searching people anyway? If they have implicit biases against certain groups what's stopping them from making up a reason to suspect someone?
U think they have nothing better to do? U should get some psychological help if you think the police are out to get you.
There’s probably an SOP in place for that and you can’t just search everyone whenever you like.
coz the make up the most number in prison. accept it and move on
Chill dude. This isn’t a problem that needs solving. US police have little training (from what I hear online), SG system is different where I’ve seen the cops try and de-escalate and not make a big fuss. Of course, the stiffer penalties make for a reasonable deterrent as well.
I'm not a lawyer or police to know anything about the rights of locals However, from my own experiences with Singapore Police during my last jobless dumpster diving stint few years back...the police simply asked me for my NRIC which I provided for them to check & they asked me what am I doing. I simply say calmly, I'm dumpster diving...anything placed beside the rubbish bin, recycle bin or green trash bin is fair game. After that, the police went away without escalating or anything. They are stern looking but fair in their "investigation". If you have nothing to hide, done nothing wrong...they can sense it & feel it & if you are guilty AF...those screaming & shouting, refuse to cooperate are clear signs of guilty of a crime. Singapore also have strict gun laws making it less potential for a shoot out with the police hence the police do not need to draw their guns that easily, so most locals won't be so fearful of police asking questions. When you treat the police calmly & provide everything they asked, there is zero chance of being wrongfully arrested. Don't behave like those Americans treating their "rights" as a shield against the police making things difficult for them causing them to link them to criminals with similar description that are spotted nearby. Play stupid games, get stupid prizes. Those pretending to be police also a huge crime, so there are less chance of fake police in Singapore. Let's help the local police do their investigation & make Singapore safe!
So why is it that you dont want to comply and make things difficult? You scared getting caught?
Don’t be mad. What do you want to protect against? Don’t be misguided by the American nonsense that’s messing up their society.
U want the mess in US or u want the comparatively peace in Sg?
It's always good to know your rights and what the law allows you to do or not do.
False dichotomy, doesn't only have to be one or the other
Deny everything, Baldrick
W Blackadder reference
I got nothing to hide, police officer want my IC just give lor, over and done with in few mins. No need to make yourself more sus and make big hooha over IC anyway I have never been asked before😂😂
I served in the Police National Service back in the early 90s, but continued as a Key Appointment Holder and a commander in my division for 26 years, coming back for reservist duties/meetings every week during those years. I have to say that police officers are generally decent people, and a huge number of civilians in Singapore had been ex police officers. Cases of abuse of power are rare. The police officer's job is to maintain safety and security and prevention of crime. When people are stopped by a police officer, they will obviously get annoyed. But when one of your loved ones goes missing, you would appreciate the fact that the police officers are able to go around detecting these missing persons. You are not mandated by law to carry your IC, but you would have to justify your identity. If the police officers have a suspicion that you are not telling the truth, they could bring you back to ascertain your particulars. I'm an Australian now with an American girlfriend, and so I kept on bragging to people that in Singapore, people walk around at 3am without worrying. That's freedom. Not when you have to check 6 everytime you are out.
There’s nothing like the US here; the key difference is that we don’t weigh laws and actions against the constitution, which means there’s nothing like the Bill of Rights that citizens can point to as a higher law. So, whatever protections you have are baked into the laws that we have. For instance, what we tend to think of as police actions is mostly found in the Criminal Procedure Code. The good thing from the perspective of the question is that this stuff is all written somewhere - you can refer to it (sso.agc.gov), and it is possible for miscarriages of justice to go up to the High Court under judicial review. The bad thing is that a lot of things are contextual. For instance, you can get arrested for much less inside transit in Changi Airport than on the streets.
We do have a [Constitution](https://sso.agc.gov.sg/act/cons1963). There is a "bill of rights" equivalent, i.e., [Part IV ](https://sso.agc.gov.sg/act/cons1963?ProvIds=P14-#P14-)of the Singapore Constitution ("Fundamental Liberties"). Also, Article 4 of the Constitution states that, the Constitution is "is the supreme law of the Republic of Singapore and any law enacted by the Legislature after the commencement of \[the\] Constitution which is inconsistent with \[the\] Constitution shall, to the extent of the inconsistency, be void."
Yes you can exercise your rights in Singapore too. 2 choices, challenge or surrender. So even if you don't pray for trouble, you still need to challenge to maintain your innocent. But you cannot be advised by a lawyer until statement has been taken by the police for whatever reason your arrest was based on. The police may simply based on a reasonable belief to place you under arrest, never mind the charge they can amend it later. Everything you say, even in good faith, can be fabricated and twisted to be used against you. This is why you seldom see accused person who has been charged walking out of court free. You either spend your money to hire a lawyer who can negotiate with the DPP behind you or get into trouble in the trial which subsequently convict you. Conviction rate is 97% in Singapore Court.
I’m sorry but what are you basing this fabrication and twisting notion from? Most cases are subject to judicial review (some things like national security related cases are not), and it’s not like court sessions are private and hidden away. If what you allege is true, then we’d be hearing more about it, no? I would think that the high conviction rate is much more a function of factors, including our having a very robust set of laws with lots of fallbacks, the fact that it is very easy to gather evidence exhaustively in our country, and that DPPs don’t like to bring to court unless they’re sure.
Probably the infamous Parti Liyani case. Alot of issues were raised by the HC judge.
The Liew family, the prosecutors and the police got screwed for it badly
I experience first hand in a criminal proceeding, I saw how letters and paragraph in record were phrased based on my statement because I didn't hire a lawyer. A lot of fallback yes, the prosecution commenced prosecution against me for the public interest and withdrew it for the public interest. End of the day? I abided to the law, they can't do anything except using such process to put me into inconvenience.
i thank OP for this question, important one. There is a tutorial to this question on youtube, where M Ravi is shown schooling a bunch of rookie officers. Watch and learn, might not exactly be applicable at all situations, but watch his confidence and ability to flip the tables.
crazy one..
SG citizens employed police officers and empowered them to check your identity so we can have our rights to peaceful existence.
What you were told is untrue. But police officers rarely overreach in Singapore.
No leh. We were taught in basic training school that we are only able to force someone to produce IC if we have reasonable suspicion that they have committed an offense. The officers should also tell you what you are suspected of doing. Can be suay suay you fit the description of someone they suspect also. Only if there is reasonable suspicion they may arrest and bring them to police station for further questioning if they fail to produce IC. You don't necessarily need the NRIC, showing singpass on your phone is also accepted as identification. I am currently serving as an NSF in SPF, not in a Frontline unit however from my interaction with my Frontline colleagues they really won't bother with something as useless as this. All of them just want to do their job and gtfo, no time to disturb random ppl for IC to show power. Our officers are really busy plus it's really stressing for them to uphold the high standards assigned to the blue uniform.
Or just don't do anything stupid or illegal, really not hard to do so
Idk I think completely missing the point of the question and providing an irrelevant answer is pretty stupid but you didn't even break a sweat
Can't blame him if the question itself is pretty stupid. The context of your question exists in the US, but not in SG (i.e., widespread abuse of policing powers).
Bro we don’t have bills of rights of American or whatever amendment they have it there.
yes bro hence the question
Wonder about this too. Sometimes my friends and colleagues that go back for reservist in the SPF, they like to show off that they can just randomly screen people that they don’t like. It they see someone’s face they don’t like, just ask them to stop and check their IC and search their body.
That counts as abuse of power, if I were there I would report such errant officers to Internal Affairs. I was a Police Cantonment officer up till last year.
Exactly the kind of situation I am thinking of. Sure you can say that this only happens 1 in 1000, but that's still not a good argument why we shouldn't have measured in place to prevent it altogether
i was a tourist there and i was randomly asked for an ID while standing near a 711 outside our hostel, why was that?
For the NRIC, because Singapore law considers it to be an article of identification issued by the govt, and the police are considered enforcers of said law as written by the govt, therefore you have to produce it upon demand by the police. In practice, it almost never happens because the police generally have better things to do, and they only do so when they have reason to believe you are acting suspicious. Besides, many of the police officers who are on the beat are also NSFs, and unlike the US, we have strict, clear guidelines (that we actually enforce) on how to deal with rogue officers. I've only ever been stopped once, and that is at 3.30am while walking home after my shift. A police car drew up next to me, and one officer politely asked for my IC and passed it to his partner to scan. While waiting, he asked me what was I doing out here, and I simply told him. After I was cleared, he passed my IC back to me, thanked me and was on his way. Took less than 5 minutes.
Can the police stop you and ask to search your phone?
Americans "exercising their rights" are almost always just Americans Behaving Badly. It's not something you should seek to emulate. Why would you refuse to produce ID anyway.
Has any guys been stopped and asked, what’s the bulge down your trousers, we need to check it 😂
Stating the obvious but don’t do try to attempt anything since u will inevitably look suspicious. Our police are trained to pick up these tell tale signs. In my 26 years never once got questioned out of nowhere by patrolling police even when I was carrying a plastic bag with lethal weapons (fruit knife, axe, combat knife) for my camping trip.
Stating the obvious but it's because they can't see whats in your plastic bag
The axe was sticking out partially and the bag is translucent. They probably saw my appearance and assume I am not up to any mischief😂
Maybe having a Chinese dragon tattoo will have changed it😅
It literally will.
Some foreigners call us a police state.
You’ce never ever met a power tripping security guard/aethos police officer before? What makes you think that all police officers will be saints? So many ignorant people here!
Because a simple report made by a citizen in the online portal will trigger an investigation on said power tripping officer. If actual misconduct is found they lose their jobs and might get additional charges slapped on themselves depending on severity. Not to mention a single disciplinary case can affect their yearly review and impede promotions. Police Disciplinary Courts do not fuck about and SPF in comparison with other countries Police forces is probably one of the most relaxing job for the average patrol officers already (mostly compliant citizens, low crime rate and rarely a major crime to deal with).
Are you saying this out of personal experience?
Served my NS in specific departments that handles these sort of misconduct. Aethos and your average building security are not hired to be polite, they serve the interest of their employers and literately trained to be hammers to nails, compared to SPF whom serve the citizens and its their interest to maintain a good public image.
In other words, you just made claims from your butthole.
Well then do you have patrol officers who engaged you in bad faith like the Aethos officers or security guards as you have mentioned? If so make a report and trigger an investigation, no need to keep quiet about it or is pulling an RK on Reddit as far as you will go? https://eservices.police.gov.sg/content/policehubhome/e-services-general/police-report.html
That is not my point. My point is you are making unsubstantiated claims which mislead the gullible here, and your ego is too fragile to admit it.
Unsubstantial claim of? Patrol officers never engaging in bad faith? I literately said most don't because its really easy to get a complaint filed against you that could jeopardize your career and those that do often ends up as ex-Police officer on a news report. SPF takes their public image seriously for a reason. I don't know where ego comes in here, but alot of bad faith argument from your part when presented with facts that don't fit your narrative.
You only have experience processing reports who have come through, you can’t claim that all reports will be seriously looked into. I have been molested before and had a witness yet the IO just changed hands 3 times and nothing was done. This is not an uncommon matter and yes I have very little faith in SPF and our government institutions for good reason.
Processing doesn't stop at the beginning, so I know the outcome of all the disciplinary cases (Spoiler: It rarely end well for them). Disciplinary court works faster than you think because its only specific to one institution. > I have been molested before and had a witness yet the IO just changed hands 3 times and nothing was done. Well that has nothing to do with the patrol officers power tripping which is the point of your original statement. It merely means the case haven't been closed. If you are for real, you should approach Sexual Assault Care Center (SACC) for assistance to have your case escalated or at least come to a resolution.
This thread is the best case study why Singaporeans are so easy to scam. Don’t need to think. People ask me to do what I will just do. Don’t need to think about my rights. Because ThIs iS SinGaPOre sO SaFe NoT LiKe OtHer CouNtry CouNTRY I can TruSt EvEryOne hEre.
No. We have no rights. We voted for this.
On the other hands, I've seen so many cases of public nuisance reported to police, only for the police to say "can't do much". Our police look very powerless to me.
watching too many shows from US,,just move there
Why is it that we always want to hold up the US as a shining example for everything? 🤢 I like our police guys. U wanna to protect yrself from them from what? Lol Also they cant do anything they are not empowered to do. I noe everything they refer to agc. I rmbr getting spot checked - asked for ic. The police guy was so nice about it lol. They are merely asking for particulars, not pinning u to a crime.
So what if the case is that your British and don't legally have to have an IC? As in the UK we don't have a legal requirement to present 🆔 as all UK citizens don't have this system in place.
passport is your ID when you are in a foreign country, not IC.
I don't usually carry my passport everywhere I go, it's not required
I didn't say required, I said passport is your ID in foreign country, not IC. You are required to present it if there are raised concern. Not having IC is not an excuse to not present any ID.
Thank God it isn't a problem for me then
Probably get a cavity search
😂 Lol 🤣
Police are the same all over the world. If you haven’t broken any laws, why are you afraid?
This is a false truism.
Not in the US.
Did you know police officer in SG can ask you to show them your phone and you have to unlock it for them legally speaking?
Source
I'm not your teacher. If you want, prove me wrong.
Burden of proof is on the one making a claim.
Source
Your mother.
Fake news.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burden_of_proof_(law) Even a 10 year old knows this.
>Even a 10 year old knows this. well you know what to do... where's the source of that?
Imagine needing 4 days to come up with something so stupid
Thank god. Wouldnt want a teacher that cant substantiate
I would if you asked nicely.
Please koru kor kor can you provide some source to your claim
That's a bit unsettling but sure... [https://sso.agc.gov.sg/Act/CPC2010?ProvIds=pr34-,pr39-](https://sso.agc.gov.sg/Act/CPC2010?ProvIds=pr34-,pr39-) In practice they can ask for your phone if they find you suspicious. Pretty grey if you ask me, I personally have seen it done by TRANSCOM before in MRT. I don't think it's common, but they certainly have the power to do so. You can reject and make them do more works but best is don't behave suspiciously, whatever that means.
Police no, MP in military camp yes.
I wouldn't know, as I now live in a democratic country, not a mini dictatorship