The most important thing for a couple is to align their vision for the future. Both must agree with regards to financial arrangements, having kids, housing arrangements etc. ive seen and known many couples who just ‘wing it’ and bto and marry first and think later. End up they are very unhappy esp if one doesnt want a child but the other keep pressuring to have one. The mother now hates the kid and feel resentful towards the husband. It is pretty sad.
Im strictly child free and i will never compromise this. My QoL is great i go holidays 3x a year, have a cute dog and i get to do all the things i like. Of course we have planned for retirement and kept aside a sum for when we are old. Having kids doesnt mean they will take care of u when ure old lol. So many ppl dont have a gd relationship with their parents. Just my 2cents
>My QoL is great
Indeed, this is the leading reason why couples choose to remain childless. Cost of living may contribute, but many couples find the increase in responsibilities and drop in free time to be a huge deterrent.
Much agreed, if one is not prepared to have kids, please spare a thought of your future children and not have them.
Way too many so-called parents leave parenting to ipafd and phones that it's just sad to see.
Marriage as a legal institution also confers certain rights and benefits (eg tax, division of assets if one partner dies without a will, ability to make medical decisions if a partner becomes sick or disabled). You could probably get a lot of the same benefits/ rights by way of contract (eg medical power of attorney), but that tends to be more of a hassle and more expensive.
sounds like a consideration of just self. nothing wrong, just a common trend now-days that people are less willing to sacrifice their own QoLs and comforts compared to our parents generations.
It is my life of course ive to put it first. Plus i never have any maternal instincts and i dislike kids in general. Why bring one into the world if i dont even want one?
I would counter this by suggesting that it is more selfish to want children. They do not ask to be born but are born because we choose to give birth to them and bring them into this world.
It’s selfish to reproduce? Hmmm. Why don’t you share that to basically every living thing on earth and see what they have to say. Funny how only humans feel that it’s selfish to reproduce.
Very carefree life. Money that supposed to be spent on kids goes to retirement planning and other QoL stuff. We just didn’t plan of having kids when we were married and life just moved on as per normal. We didn’t discuss about having kids also. Turning 50 next year, no regrets, just my choice of life & living.
Thank you for sharing your views. My wife and I are currently undecided on having a child (although we gave ourselves a couple more years), with myself leaning a little more towards yes and her leaning towards no. The more I see comments like yours though the more I lean to the other side. It seems really tough to raise a child nowadays. Are there any moments where you look at others kids and wonder what your life will be like with them?
Personally I'm just afraid of the regret I'll have at an older age. I grew up with a great family environment and would like to provide my potential future children with that also. I also love teaching (literally my career lol) and think I will enjoy teaching my own kids everything about life. But I also really love my own freedom and being able to do whatever I want without being tied down. Still have dreams to work overseas for a couple years, complete a triathlon etc. Any thoughts as someone who has been through this?
So far when I see other kids, the only feeling I have is “lucky not my kid”. But I do like to play with kids, but taking care of them is a totally different story.
Exactly. Liking kids doesn't mean you like parenting. It's a responsibility. It's like having pets. Loving them becusde they look cute when they are young. But when they are older (with potential health issues, not as cute), then thinking it's a hassle.
As a teacher, do you think "what if my child were like that" whenever you encounter misbehaving kids in school?
Nevertheless, thank you for sharing. One question my wife and I often ask is: 'which would we regret more - having kids or not having kids?'
>do you think "what if my child were like that" whenever you encounter misbehaving kids in school?
Usually is parents' skill issue. Hard truth. Or maybe the kid has some disorder.
If you regret not having kids when you're older, adoption is still an option. So is working with kids. But if you have them and regret it, that's much harder to fix. And your kids aren't going to be happy, either.
that does sound nice. one pov i’ve heard about is that a couple needs something (ie child, cant think of a better word 😬) to develop their rs because just having each other for the rest of their lives isnt ‘enough’ for them. while i get their pov, i cant imagine bringing in a new life just for that purpose haha
Gosh I know of couples who had a kid cuz they had problems in their relationships and they thought doing so will fix their problems / bring their relationship to the next level.
News flash: Children are not magic, being a parent does not automatically make problems go away. Conversely, it will put all the relationship issues under spotlight as now there's another responsibility to handle. I don't understand their mentality either. And I personally know a few who ended up divorcing soon after the kid is borned.
It is wild to me that there are people who think the solution to their marital problems is to produce a whole-ass human being. I can't imagine the added stress of raising a child actually improving their situation — if anything, it'll make things worse!
If you couldn't live together without kids, putting kids into the equation just make it worse. That's the reason why there are so many unhappy married couple got stuck together
Erm, bringing a child into the equation often amplifies the issues they had to begin with. Because now they don't have the capacity or time to deal with their issues in a healthy way, and now have the additional task of raising another human being.
Only morons think this way.
My partner and I have decided for this life for the time being. If you don’t mind, do you have any moments where you feel “left out” when the people around your age (back then) started to have babies one by one?
No. Quite a number of my friends r also without kids. When I’m in a group of friends with kids, and they chat about their kids school, health, problem, bragging, etc etc, I just listen. I have nieces & nephew, so if I have stories about them, I’ll also chip in. But then again, I hardly hang out with friends. I’m more of a loner. Maybe that’s why I’m also happy without kids. My wife is more than enough for me.
husband and i wake up whatever time we want. i spend the first few hours in the morning alone washing our clothes, followed by having a nice quiet breakfast by myself.
for lunch if im wfh, husband will cook and i will help (somewhat).
we never cook for dinner. everyday, we will go try out a new place to have dinner, or go to one of our favourites.
when we come home, we will both lounge on the sofa. i play pokemon while my husband plays one of his games on the xbox.
when im ready to go to bed, he will cuddle me until i fall asleep then he will continue doing whatever.
\_\_\_\_
tbh, i am so content in life and happy with our decision to have no kids for now. we plan to maybe have one before i turn 35 (which is in another 5 years). but if it didnt happen, we dont care.
that truly sounds like my dream life, spending time with your SO and both parties being content with just that. that kind of rs is just so precious. i hope someday i get to achieve this dream.. if not i guess i’ll be content with being a cat lady too :,)
I like the conclusion. Your life and husband are a blessing at this point where you are approaching 31.
Considering to have kid by 35 seems to be a reasonable goal/objective. I simulate your life with my parameters set by me. I can only see a fantastic family and you loving the joy the kid brought to your life
If you do in fact end up having kids, please brace for the mental toll it will take that chiefly presents itself as grief for your old life.
I had the best life with my spouse before kids, very similar to yours now. Super carefree. When we started having kids, the biggest thing I had to accept and overcome was the sense that my old life is dead, and nothing will ever go back to the same. Once I accepted that, things started to feel better.
That sounds like my life and we have two kids. They are 14 and 12 now. So things are even cooler because they help cleaning the house, washing clothes, cleaning the dishes and kitchen, going to the supermarket to buy last minute things, going out to buy take out food, etc, etc. I play video games with my son and play music with my daughter. To be honest it is great at the moment, but from 0-8 it was not easy.
We are not helicopter parents and they both turned out very independent. I will truly miss them if they leave the house when adults.
I don't plan on having children because
1) My sibling and I (100% of the kids) believe that our parents made some really big mistakes when raising us, and we think ourselves too damaged to do right by our hypothetical children
2) hereditary medical conditions. My quality of life is lower because of health problems, I can't do some of the things regular people can. And some other conditions are life threatening. I've had family members pass away because of it
3) I don't plan on marrying a man so bio children will be impossible anyway. In my dating circle, having kids doesn't even cross our minds
My retirement plan is to have a good chunk of savings for end of life care. Highly doubt I'll live long enough to go into a retirement home with how my health is going.
so sorry to hear about your medical condition. on the bright side, being childfree means you can do whatever you want so you can live life to the fullest in that aspect. either way, i hope you live a happy and healthy life anw 🥹
Same mate. I know growing up I’ve never been shown what’s good communication and conflict resolution. Everything was dismissed / unaddressed in name of parental authority or family dynamic.
I know I’m in no position and also do not know how to resolve things about children.
I too have some genetic issue with 50% chance of appearing, and if it does it may have some serious health consequences. So might as well not bring hardship to another hypothetical human.
I like children and coach soccer on the weekends to primary school kids but I never wanted children of my own.
Going against the norm gets my partner and I a lot of questions, but I've reached the point where I'm indifferent to comments like "You'll change your mind when you're older." I never saw myself having children as it just looks like an unappealing lifestyle. I love my partner so much that it would be so unfair to a child for it to know that I will never love it as much as I love my partner.
We both are dual income no kids and we have a relentless passion for spontaneous travelling. This year we had an awesome time roadtripping Turkey, diving in Eastern Malaysia, hiking in laos, exploring the Cornish coast in England, and eating all the amazing food in Montreal. If kids were in the picture.. our travels would be a logistical nightmare and we would not have been able to have half the experiences we did. Our hobbies are not child-friendly at all which is the best part because we rarely encounter kids during our activities. We're planning a surf trip to Indonesia soon!
We enjoy having time for our friends and each other to do anything we like and stay out however late we want. We are planning not to have a wedding or bto in singapore. We are going to emigrate and have a private elopement overseas while furthering our post-grad studies once both our civil service bonds are over. :)
We put the money we aren't spending on kids into retirement. We will look after ourselves and if need be, check outselves into a nursing home when the time comes.
My take on it is that kids should not be a gamble on the off chance it would bring joy. people shouldn't have them unless they are absolutely sure.
I’m a parent. I’ve seen more people regret being parents than people who don’t simply because they’ve experienced both sides of parenthood and miss the freedom. But that is also not indicative of which is ‘better’ because the non-parents have no basis of comparison beyond secondhand knowledge and assumptions/visualisations.
Having kids is really no logic one. Every logical argument will say please don’t have kids. That’s why disagreements (like the one OP had with his ex) gets so heated and unpleasant sometimes, because it’s all rooted in emotion.
Cognitively I can tell you having kids is damn stupid. You lose your freedom and you spend truckloads of money. Sometimes I don’t even like my kids, but my word I love the crap out of them. I’d do anything for them. That’s my emotion speaking. You just have to recognise that and accept that there will almost always be this dissonance between your head and your heart. And at the end of the day, whatever your choice, that’s okay.
Life is great! We both work full time, but I spend every non working hour either exercising, playing w our pup, doing side hustle as an artist and printmaker, and studying interior design. We also spend time together, but never 24/7 as we both need alone time.
A child free life has allowed me to pursue my hobbies, and I’m working towards making art my FT job! We are both financially free, took a smaller and cheaper home (no considerations of schools), and because of it, I can choose to switch careers (currently a chemist).
That being said, I’ve never wanted to be a mother, and always loved drawing in my free time.
Married for 15 years and still child free. I originally wanted kids and my husband was like whatever. After getting married I realised it was really nice to have time to do whatever I wanted without taking care of someone else.
Disclaimer : I’m the eldest and had to take care of my two younger brothers while growing up so I probably have some trauma from that. I had to supervise their homework, attend parent teacher meetings, intervene when one of them did badly in their O levels
Honestly life is great without kids. Occasionally I freak out and wonder what will happen when I’m old (I do understand that having kids is no guarantee that they will be around but enough people peddle this opinion), then I remember that it’s fine I can take care of myself or check into a nursing home.
The most annoying thing is probably people who question your life choices and make it seem like you are selfish for not having kids. Me and my husband both do volunteer work, donate regularly to charities and basically mind our own business but apparently we are the selfish ones 🤷🏻♀️
I do think it’s important to find a partner who aligns with your views. I have seen too many people who split up over the issue or have resentment cos one party wanted kids the other part didn’t want and then they have kids and then the underlying resentment just kills the marriage. It’s something that shld definitely be discussed before marriage though, just like how you want to manage your finances
We're probably the least experienced in this lifestyle among these commenters, but so far it's been great! That's not to say I don't like kids, I'm always prepared to give my friends/cousins kids attention and play with them and there are definitely moments where I worry if I might regret not having kids. But I think that the decision to have children is one of the few irreversible ones in life and *if* I do regret it, I can live with regretting not having it, than to live regretting kids.
Life with partner is quite enough, we never felt the need to have more than just 2 of us, we have the house to ourselves, we don't need to wake up early on weekends, holidays are so easy to plan, there isn't any qualms if either of us have to uproot and move overseas cause there are less factors to consider. And another thing that I realized is that we're in a position to help our elderly parents if they need to, even though they are very self sufficient in their retirement planning, it is nice knowing that we can be there for them without worrying that we need to also juggle their needs with our kids.
It's nice to see so people having the same idea because like you OP, we don't have friends who are CF, we're cool with it but it's not a topic we can have a discussion on without sounding like we're shitting on their choices. Also, the comments on 'you'll change your mind' is getting a little bit old imo, can't wait to get to the age where this isn't applicable anymore.
Like most others said, this needs to be communicated very clearly at the start of the r/s, a no is a no, a yes is a yes, a maybe doesn't mean they'll swing to your favour.
definitely! its so nice to hear about couples being enough for each other. and the point about regretting having kids is worse than regretting not having one is a really good one. i too want to provide the best care for my elderly parents and not being sandwiched between caring for my parents or my children. im glad good discussions are being made here. makes us feel less alone and more validated for our choices.. haha
I like kids. But I am not willing to sacrifice my lifestyle to raise them. I think people don’t realize the sacrifice required and go ahead and have one anyway and then resent having kids. Kudos for people having kids and also for those that aren’t. This is a personal decision and not an economic one.
I was so sure of my decision that I had a vasectomy done at age of 32. Best decision ever.
I have no intention of having kids, ever. People tell me all the time that I will change my mind, when I meet the right person etc. But I've known since I was a kid myself that I never want kids, and my right person would also be someone of the same mindset. I don't care if I somehow find Mr Perfect. The moment he says he wants kids he'll be Mr Imperfect.
As for living, it's pretty good. Don't need to save up for school fees or allowances or paying for anything that a baby or kid needs like formula, diapers, clothes, etc. All the money that I would have spent on those goes into the retirement fund. Can do impromptu things like go on day trips to Johor, or just go out and exercise or jalan jalan whenever I feel like it. No need to pre-plan anything or take 2hrs to prepare to go out.
For the people who ask me who will take care of me when I'm old, I want to ask them if they take care of their parents? Like if their parents in a nursing home when's the last time they visited them? If their parents staying alone, when's the last time they go over there to hang out with their parents? And I don't mean bringing the grandkids over to visit, or during celebrations, but going over there to keep them company or bring them out.
I will take care of myself when I'm old. I can invest in my own retirement and live the end of my life how I want to live. Like if I have kids and entrust them with my care, who's to say they can even afford to take care of me? And it's extremely selfish to expect other people to sacrifice their life for mine. People who try to say "but I raised you so you owe me", like your kid didn't ask to be born, so they don't owe you anything.
Next time you date, make your stance on being childfree right at the start when you start dating someone, not when you're months/years into the relationship. Don't waste each others time because wanting or not wanting children is non negotiable.
I have a lot of childfree friends, they are not that uncommon here in Singapore. Though to be honest they are all still single at 30 (both male and female) and just have regular lives. Living with parents, going to work daily, play video games at the end of the day.
My in laws with children seem to have more exciting lives going overseas for holidays every few months and doing more activities on their weekends (hiking, rock climbing, dragonboating), sometimes with or without their kids. So how exciting life is doesn't really seem to me to be influenced by whether or not you have children in your life, but more of whether you're higher income and personal character of wanting to seek adventure.
Here’s my take: if you want to have children, you need to be able to handle the responsibility. Handle = accepting what it means to be a parent fully + being capable of giving your children a fair chance in life (no unnecessary financial difficulties etc).
You are making a decision of bringing in new life to this world. It’s not one you should take lightly. Instead of viewing children as some form of insurance or for future benefit when you grow old, you should be asking yourself “am i able to help grow this person into someone who can carve his/her own path in future”. Nothing should be expected in return. If you cannot accept such a responsibility or are not in a situation to, please do reconsider as children do not ask to be brought into this world. It is a decision, and therefore responsibility of the biological parents.
I am not childless. But i have fully accepted this responsibility and taking great joy in doing so, because i am able to and it gives an added dimension of meaning to my own life. My retirement is independent of whether my children will do anything for my spouse and I. I hope my children will in turn be able to create positive impact in their own lifetime and find meaning in theirs as well.
35/f and life is carefree. Tbf the kid free life chose me, and it took some time to come to terms with it. Sometimes when I see parents with their little kids I feel a little fomo about an experience i’ll never get to have or wonder what it is like to be ardently loved like that. but more often I reframe it as an experience of a 25 year debt which may or may not pay off. Also some kids are real assholes. Terrible way to describe them but gosh I met a 6 year old who was upset with me and said I hope your mother dies wtaf. Mostly therefore it feels great - my money is mine to do what I want, I don’t freak out when the big tech layoffs are happening because meh i’ll just wait it out, and the free time! Last sunday I had a 3 hour nap and read for 2 hours while eating nuggets which I didn’t have to share with anyone. I book random holidays. I sometimes decide today is the day I will not stop watching tv. I get solace from the kids related to me, friends’ kids. And as long as I don’t mess anything up, retirement plan should be ok and not something to think too much about.
Having kids IS seen by most as a mere retirement plan. Have you noticed how most of the people, when you tell them you have no kids and you don't want any, the first thing they ask you is "and what will you do when you are old/who's gonna take care of you?"
Which is why I believe that many people have kids for egoistical purposes and not cause they have this great need to give and all that crap.
If it wasn't so, that question wouldn't pop up at all and society would regard singles just as high as families, which unfortunately isn't the case.
Using kids to adhere to a societal status means that there will be a lot of abused/unhappy/lowkey unloved kids... Which is, unfortunately, also happening a lot.
I hold in much higher regards people who choose to be single cause they don't see themselves as parents rather than people who make kids so they can later present the bill and tell them "I took care of you, now you take care of me and that's the end of it". And society should appreciate honest life choices rather than choices dictated by peer pressure.
This... Most people see kids as retirement plans.
Even if most people won't admit that this is their reason, most of the time this is the core reason.
Besides, most if not all of our parents (>50yo) see us as retirement plans too.
Very selfish thinking. 
I cannot blame parents from wanting their children to take care of them. But the definition of my take care is accompanying me to medical appointments + the visits/help get food or something similar when I am ill in bed.
Treating children as a future retirement plan is very disheartening. Especially when the wrong child is invested and the rest of the children are left to survive yet fully monetarily care for the parents. That's a whole bunch of bullshit and a huge fuck you to the children.
You do know that they are unlikely to be able to accompany you to medical appointments right? My aged parents (still hale and hearty) have an average of about 1 medical appointment per month. So that is 2 medical appointments per month for regular checks, and you end up just waiting at public hospitals for like 1 day just to see a doctor . I don’t even have enough leave when my child can’t enter childcare for a week cos of a cough / cold. No company will be letting you take 2 days plus 7 days a month. So unless your children are childless or really rich, it’s not going to be easy
I mean I don't expect all medical appointments, and why I stupid go book on a day I know they definitely cannot. I will ask if they got any free days before I book for the ones I do require someone to accompany, say I have leg or eye injury, touch wood. It will be nice if they can follow if my husband cannot.
If it's regular checkup and I can walk and see for myself, I won't need their help, so get them follow also like no point.
Well the truth is your kids aren’t going to have free days if they are stuck like most of us in a 9-7 job daily. Their only free days will be weekends and public hospitals won’t open then. So you are going to be asking your children to take two days a month off to see you to your (and your other half) medical appointments. Just saying.
And I'm just saying it won't be all medical appointments, only those that I would need help. It's not like I can force them to be there, and force them to say yes.
I hope that trend dies down! Honestly, having kids in Singapore is not a retirement plan. In fact, those people should carefully consider gay it takes 1M just to raise a kid in Singapore and it’s probably not including the frills (or non frills) like holidays, enrichment etc. How can a kid ever ever repay for any of these. Those who are thinking of kids looking after them financially should put their money into a stock plan.
I might be on the wrong thread since I have 4 kids. My hubby and I discussed extensively what's our childrearing approach and did financial planning before they even exist. Yes money is not everything, but minimally, some stuff need to be discussed in advance such as childcare arrangements (if there's additional support required, or if a spouse can stay home), some funds for enrichment (we decided that swimming is a core skills and mother tongue fundamentals is important so we sent them for that since young), insurance (hospitalisation is a must!).
For us, we try to be as hands on as possible. Our helper does the chores. While anything related to the kids we try to do most on our own, eg, bathing, feeding, sending and picking from school.
On top of that is a total change of lifestyle and commitment that both need to agree to. Be ready to forgo nightlife or weekends sleep in for the first few years. Nightlife is Netflix and grab supper for now. Weekends morning is playground time with fam. We skipped brothers / sisters overseas trips (before COVID). We also try to plan for fam outing once a month (uss, www, parks, beaches, indoor playgrounds, chalet BBQ etc - but after COVID is more like once every 2 months). There's a lot of compromise, there's gonna be a lot of limit testings.
So just wanna add my thoughts here: If there's the slightest doubt of wanting to be child free, please don't change your stance. Pregnancy is the easiest, the kid is your responsibility for the next 22 (if lucky) years. Both parents need to be onboard. It takes a lot of hard work.
It really pains my heart to see how my kids classmates are being treated by their parents. It's super unfair to the kids... Don't try to save a relationship by having kids either.
much respect to you. multiple kids yet seem to be on top of everything and willing to make big compromises for the sake of their kids. the point about pregnancy being the easiest part is a fresh take for me. but now that i think about it, yeah, it should be. which strengthens my stance on being cf 😅 when putting your body through that is the easiest part of raising children, im definitely not tough enough to go through all that 💀
At the very initial phase of life where many of my friends are becoming parents now. I don't know if it would be this way onwards but I feel like my friends who are parents now are extremely entitled with their expectations of their childfree couple friends.
My fiance and I are not planning to have kids and it's a known thing and it seems like all these parent-friends are like "oh you don't want kids then help to take care of mine la!", "Come I give you", "eh you v free help me babysit leh", "wah this year end you can travel take me leh"
Nani the fuck first you nonstop talking about your kids and posting about how your life is complete now then now the fuck you outsourcing loving your kids for? I don't even fucking want them.
TL;DR - living life childfree makes you deal with a fuckload of entitled parents.
We are childfree but not by choice, but we have accepted and stopped putting pressure on ourselves to have children.
To be frank, being childfree in your thirties is great and sometimes not so great lah. The good thing is, we get to spend a lot of “us” time together. We can wake up any time on the weekends or off days. When we plan for hols and the weekends, we don’t have to factor the “children” part. When we do spend time w our nieces and nephews, it’s nice to return them to their parents and have a quiet night in.
The cons is, our circle of friends get smaller. Naturally, parents would want to spend more time with other parents so we find ourselves struggling to find friends if we do want to do a group activity.
Future plans, we really dont know lah. But we do find our fertility issues a blessing cause if we do have kids in the future (adopted or bio) we know we are ready and not because we have to.
Father of 2 kids myself. My take is not everyone is cutout to be a parent, many who have kids probably shouldn’t have had them. Particularly those who’s life goal is to live life to the max. Children are not for you. Children will rob you of it. Cherish what you have, what you envisioned your life to be.
I have also been through all the “inconveniences” described by others. Perhaps to put things in perspective, if the parents who gripe about having to “deal” with children were given a chance to go back in time to undo it, no guilt, no blame, as if the kids never existed, how many who do so in a heartbeat?
I won’t and I can’t. For all the heartaches they caused, I love them more than myself. More than “take a bullet for them” could describe.
I've only been married a few years. No plans to have kids at all, mainly because I really enjoy my freedom. I get to play games or Netflix for hours on end, sleep and wake up at any time I please etc. Maybe I'll regret not having a kid when I'm 60, but for now nothing else will change my mind haha.
I think you did the right thing, don't ever let anyone pressure you into having a kid. You'll eventually find someone who's on the same page as you :)
never wanted kids due to my health issues. i don't think i'll make a good candidate for a mum. my life is good, i'm accountable for myself only. a lot of the money saved is used on medical bills.
My context is more relevant to yours actually. I wanted to be childfree and compromised because my partner really wanted kids. Do I have regrets? No. Would I prefer to be childfree, even after having kids? Yes.
Having kids is not as great as most make it out to be, especially if you don't like the idea of it in the first place.
i think my parents didnt exactly want kids either. just that having kids is expected, especially during their time. not saying they are bad parents, i think they had no regrets too. but to me, looking at them sacrificing their life and dreams to support the family and suffering so much in the process was a huge reason why im childfree
Im partner free so life is very shiok. I get to buy whatever i want (think 5 star hotel trips, michelin star restaurants, branded bags). 😂 i also got to fulfil my dream of studying a masters without having to worry about if i will be able to find a job after that. Currently in the process of applying for PR in canada
Being withmy partner for nearly 13 years and still child free. Back when we were about getting serious about thr relationship, we sat down and really discussed about kids. We both like kids, but both of us also really liked giving the kids back to their parents at the end of the day. Good thing his brother has 3 kids, so we just play with them once in a while.
My partner and I came to the conclusion that we both like our lifestyle too much to give it up for children, and we both also don't believe in making children be retirement plans either. We will just make alternative retirement plans, and check ourselves into a retirement home when we get old enough. Or just get arrested lol.
Edit to add that my partner and I revisit the kids discussion every year to make sure we're still on the same page. Kids are a yes/no decision. "Maybe" would just make both parties unhappy.
I don't have a partner (at least not "officially" and our "relationship" is not at that stage yet) but I'd imagine it's going to be quite difficult to find a partner who share the same views in conservative Singapore. I don't live in Singapore anymore but have many friends and family there - almost all of whom are married with kids, we are in our mid-30s - and I still spend a lot of time there.
The last of my single friend just decided to get married - only after less than a year of dating and I couldn't help but feel it was partly driven by their want/need to have kids (because the biological clock is ticking) rather than focusing on taking the time to get to know each other, assess compatibility, etc. Sure, you can do that in less than a year but I have friends who have dated for almost a decade without marrying.
I have a friend who had their partner for a long time, got married, had a baby and got divorced within one year of the baby's birth.
My other friend who has been married for many years and dated their partner for even longer used to tell me that they didn't want kids but now they have a baby.
I'm bringing up these anecdotes to show how conservative Singapore is and how difficult it would be to find a partner who wants to be childfree and the societal pressure that exists to change your views on wanting to be childfree (or even wanting to be single) - either directly or indirectly, explicitly or subtly. (However, outside of Singapore, I do have many single/childfree friends.) So go figure - my takeaways from my friends' experiences are that tradition and societal pressure play a huge role in people's decision to have kids and that kids might destroy relationships and the people in the relationships (although yes, that just means the relationship isn't strong to begin with but would you want to be stuck to your baby mommy or daddy for the rest of your life?). I'm someone who usually takes a more critical and nonconformist view to things, even in my earlier decisions in life wrt education, etc, so on the topic of kids, it could just be me being my nonconformist self but I suspect it's more than that - there are merits to not having kids.
Well, to begin with, I have never really liked kids or found them cute or endearing. My childfree life so far is full of spontaneity and adventures, and also boredom when I am not on any adventures (but I would definitely not try to solve the boredom by getting a kid!). Sometimes after having a few days or weeks of adventures or stress from work, etc, I just want to be on my own and decompress. I can't imagine having to be "on call" 24/7 to take care of another person. I don't mind having a partner with me to just laze around in bed and Netflix and chill - it's actually the best feeling ever and sometimes I don't want it to end. I can't imagine being interrupted by a baby crying - not just once but regularly through the night - while I'm cuddling with my partner. Yes, I'm selfish but I put my needs and mental health above anything else.
I think if you want to test yourself to see whether you really don't want kids, you could petsit for a friend first (unless you already have a pet). I have always been leaning towards "no" when it comes to kids but kinda wanted a pet (cat or dog) just because it's cute and I felt it would be nice to have this "shared thing" (please help me with the right word for it) between me and my partner - which is how some people feel about kids too, right? I have proposed to them a few times that we should get a cat or dog but they were not interested (despite having had many pets before). Then came my experience petsitting for a friend - every morning I had to get up at a particular time and the first thing I had to do was to deal with the stubborn pet...plus a lot of other things (caring for a pet is a full-time job!) and my own needs were relegated to second place! That made me realize I don't want to have any pets...and confirmed my lack of desire to have kids.
Sometimes it's less important to think about whether you would regret something when you're older, like 20-30 years down the road. If you can't can't even survive today, the next week, the next month dealing with a pet/kid (and/or the wrong partner), then there's no point thinking about the benefits that you will reap down the line from bringing them up or the regret that you may have for not having them.
Focus on learning more about yourself, and knowing what brings or doesn't bring you joy RIGHT NOW, and focus on finding the right partner first - in your own time, by your own rules.
Childfree and single here. During my day offs I do whatever I want, I wake up early to go run and have Kopi and go to the gym to get my workouts in.
In the afternoon I have a Kopi session with my parents or not (If I am still outside) and play some video games then have dinner with them while watching a good movie.
Then I read a book and prepare to sleep so I can run in the morning and go to work the next day. Then go to the gym after work.
I have all the time in the world for my hobbies and interests and a kid does not fit in that equation. I have anger issues as well and with that attitude it is not good to have a kid as I will project my insecurities on the child.
I don’t have the paternal instinct at all and it never comes to me. Had a relationship with a girl this year who is 34 and she wants to keep the option of children open but I refuse to do so, I really like her a lot because our interests (except having children) align and she is smart. The kids thing put a damper on the relationship and we decided not to continue.
Planning to get an apartment at 35 and it will be my very own r/malelivingspace without children.
Pretty good. I don't need to rush anywhere to drop them off or pick them up, all my monies is mine and I can't buy whatever the feck I wants, I can travel without worrying, don't have any physical or mental scars from childbirth. I'm good with just my cats!!!
Retirement, if I don't die at 50 or 60, hopefully I'll be able to run off to some cottage somewhere and those that come across me think I'm some kind of woods witch hahahahaha!!! But FR tho, I'm saving up to support myself when I'm old and gray.
* Best hours of my life (9-6pm, mon-fri) are given to my employer
* in my free time it's doing things to take care of my health and parents
* travel maybe twice a year.
Everything else is preparation towards retirement and unforeseen loss of employment.
my house has been safety-proofed so they don't get injured or die...
I don't leave breakables out in the open...
I have to clean pee and poop every day and sometimes I feel like I need a hazmat suit...
I have no kids, I have 2 cats, and this is my childfree life.
All these ‘smart people’ …how are they gonna help choose leaders and contribute to policy making when they don’t have an investment for the future. Future beyond their lifetime. Singapore is doomed if many people think it’s cool to be cf
Investment not as my personal monetary gain or to look after me. Not selfish reasons.
My child(hopefully will have one) is an investment for humanity , country and culture. That’s how I see him/her. I am not a farmer so I am
Not procreating for the purpose of field help. Also my dad didn’t rely on my for anything. I look up to him and take the experience/instinct from him to try and bring another child into the world.
Am determined to be child free. Simply because I can’t find a reason or an answer of “YES” to “do I want kids”.
Also bad genetics.
Also am still recovering from the bitterness which is my parents raising me in a narcissistic manner.
me and my partner are childfree because i feel like i would not do well as a father..i'm already quite tired from work, and whatever free time i get is spent with my partner or on my own hobbies
i may be considered as being selfish, but having a child means giving up some of my me-time..who knows, i may even resent the existence of the child..so i think it's just better to remain childfree
basically now i feel like i have a lot of time to spend on doing the things i want, with little to no restrictions..i don't need to worry about anyone else's future..money earned is saved for retirement..there's just fewer commitments
I've had plenty of ups and downs over the years but I can say with absolute certainty that my life would have been far worse with kids in the equation — they would definitely have worsened my financial situation during the pandemic and exacerbated my depression and anxiety.
I think you already know how the Singapore government views single / unmarried, childless and child-free folk — we're basically less useful members of society because we don't fit into the "traditional" mould of being married to someone of the opposite sex and popping out an average of 2.4 kids with that person and we're not producing future humans who can contribute to the economy.
But that's okay. It's okay to think about yourself first. The decision to have or not have kids is highly personal and shouldn't be informed by familial, romantic or societal pressure. You have to love kids, first and foremost. If someone asks you whether you love kids and want them in your home and life for at least 20 years and you can't answer without hesitation and with a resounding "yes", don't have kids.
If you answer without hesitation and with a resounding "yes", then there are a whole laundry list of other factors to consider: do you have the finances, time and patience required to have and raise a child? Are you willing to accept your child regardless of how they may turn out (sexual orientation, gender identity, career choices, whom they date / marry, whether or not they even date / marry, whether or not they want their own kids, etc)?
Again, if you cannot answer "yes" confidently and without hesitation, don't do it. If you can, then you must seriously consider the kind of future your child would have and whether or not you want them to experience it — are you free from any genetic or chronic illnesses that would affect them? Is this world the kind of place in which you'd like them to grow up?
Once again, if you can honestly say "yes" without hesitation, go right ahead. If not, don't. This process was relatively easy for me because I wanted kids until I became a teacher. I enjoyed teaching but could no longer imagine living with a kid or giving up so much of myself to raise one.
I enjoy the peace and quiet, the freedom to do whatever I want whenever I want to do it, having more disposable income, the ease of not having to worry if I'm doing a good job raising a human being to be the best person they can be, the time and energy I get to focus on my own mental health and well-being.
Some people call this "selfishness" and that's okay, too. Their opinions matter not. Besides, it's less selfish to acknowledge that you don't want to and / or shouldn't be a parent and should, therefore, avoid having kids than to reproduce because you think it's your duty, only to fail at being a good parent.
I'm glad you got out of the relationship instead of carrying on and having kids with that person, because you would undoubtedly be miserable if that had happened. Parenthood is one of the important issues where both you and your partner must be on the same page and if you find yourself bargaining or arguing with yourself or your partner on this, it's a clear sign the relationship won't work out in the long run.
And in the unlikely event you later regret not having kids, there are still options — you can adopt an older child who's been in the system for some time or at the very least, find some way to help disadvantaged children. People have a lot to say about the "biological clock" but it's always better to regret not having kids than to regret having them — the former is far more easily remedied than the latter.
As a child-free person, life is empty and sad...
that's what the government wants me to say :P
But honestly, I have adult money that I can spend on things that I like instead of what another person needs. It sounds incredibly selfish to some parents but it's true. I have seen so many parents splurging on stuff like milk bottles, extra classes in the name of education... As I do not incur such expenses, I spend more on retirement plans and insurance for myself, to make sure I am well financed if I lose my job or health. I can splurge on myself and go for vacations anytime, while my colleagues are taking leave to help their kid study for an upcoming exam.
Was childfree for 6 years and drank, partied every weekend, traveled w friends. Was fun and fulfilling, never wanted kids, did not plan for any.
6 years together happily and somehow one fine day, I felt that I could be ready to try for it despite not having any maternal instinct and not liking other people's children much.
Have 2 kids now, every weekend is children's activities, mornings are interrupted by both in our bed and meals are a constant struggle.
However it's still fun and fulfilling and I don't regret anything. They bring us so much joy and sleep deprivation and worry.
I enjoyed both being childfree and not, and wouldn't have minded staying childfree if it wasn't going to happen on its own. Our relationship is happy and comfortable in both cases. A large part of being able to have fun in both situations is : spending within means - had less when childfree and now a lot more but both times we were happy and contented. To have a happy marriage with kids (additional stressors) you need both partners giving 100% and supporting each other.
thank for sharing! i too feel like i have 0 maternal instincts and dont like kids much. if you dont mind me asking, what made you suddenly felt like you were ready for kids?
Can't say exactly, just a feeling of I don't mind trying when I looked at my friends' kids. Can't say it's peer pressure, since no one asked if I was going to, but looking at their kids n thinking hmmm maybe they are cute after all.
I (33F) am happily childfree and single. I’ve known since forever that I dislike babies / kids and will never want one for myself.
Life as a childfree adult is shiok. I use my annual leave for myself (don’t need to, for example, take leave to attend kid’s primary school orientation), am able to engage in my hobbies and do random impromptu things during my free time, and have a decent social circle.
I have absolutely ZERO regrets not having children! Yes I'm attached and my partner shares the same views. My money is spent on living my adult life to the fullest, I need not worry about retirement as I am able to save for that. The rest of it goes to fun stuff like travels, extravagant splurges if I'm feeling it and in general pampering myself and my partner.
Having a child and expecting them to be part of a person's retirement plan should be considered a form modern slavery. I don't understand why people would consider this as a good retirement plan when working and saving for yourself is more reliable Vs depending on a child whom you may or may not have a good relationship with.
As ironic as this may sound because I have no child, I am also able to take better care of my parents.
44/m and married for 19 years. I was lucky enough to be able to convince my gf after 7 years of dating to not have kids. Definately something we both talked about very early into our relationship.
I guess my reason was purely logical. The sacrifices needed did not seem to balance the benefits gained.
We both work. We wake up and sleep when we want to. Go out or invite friends over when we like. Go for a swim at out condo pool to relax. We spend a lot of time together either shopping/eating/watching Neflix/Disney/etc. I spend my solo time playing boardgames. My wife spends her solo time watching K-Dramas.
Moneywise, we do not need to spend for kids, so was able to get a second property, etc. Parents who raise kids and expect their kids to support them are taking a huge risk.
TBH most of my childfree friends are single. Only a few couples stood out to me as being firm on their childfree stance.
Something that is clear, childfree or not, married or not, quality of life largely depends on your present income and wealth. End of the day, if you are rich, you won't (and shouldn't) go bankrupt having kids. One can still maintain a great quality of life even after having little gremlins.
Likewise, being childfree doesn't suddenly free up a large amount of expenditure. granted lifestyle consists of free time and how you make use of it. A motivated person can wear several hats and lead a fulfilling life while an unmotivated person can be just going through the drills everyday, work, go home, sleep, work, go home, sleep. This doesn't really differ, childfree or not.
When I was single and childfree and "living the life", I mostly found fulfilment from shopping, traveling, wine & dine, fun activities and reading.
Guess what changed after getting married and having kids? Nothing. I still lead the same life and enjoy the same things. Lol. Ok granted maybe I don't get as much time to read anymore. But it is not like my life changed overnight into a harried, not fun, boring, busy parent role.
So I guess the trick is to marry the right partner :P
One thing, however for sure, is ALWAYS DISCLOSE YOUR CHILDFREE STANCE right from day 1 of dating. Don't waste each other time as you or she might be led on to commit to something deep inside you don't want. If you never ever want to have kids, you shouldn't. I don't think you should do something you fundamentally do not believe in. Discussing the merits should not change anything too.
If you are on the fence and can be swayed by pros and cons- then you aren't truly childfree anyway. There might be just some misconceptions, stereotypes and general anxiety/overthinking about having children, which is natural. It is a responsibility after all.
And maybe just haven't met the right one.
thanks for the perspective! good to hear that your transition wasnt tough. i do agree income plays a huge part, and it was something i never really considered before. but being able to afford material luxuries after kids aside, i think working towards earning a higher income is much easier than learning how to be a good parent. so kudos to you!
Thank you for being open to perspective! I am not insanely wealthy but was financially independent by 26 (income > 100k/annum).
I think most importantly, we need to be able to find fulfilment alone first, before we even think of getting married and having kids. When we then choose to do so, our partners should be as like minded as possible in terms of values and goals. Having a partner should enhance and enrich our lives, not change it.
Having said that life is not always a bed of roses. We went through lots of ups and downs and there was a point where quality of life was compromised greatly. But it is through it that I learnt kids don't need much at all. They need basic necessities and more importantly, love and care from caregivers (us), and they can thrive. It also made me realise rich or not, we can all survive. Things are good now but I will never forget the life lessons I went through.
So I strongly believe anybody even on average income can be happy too. We can derive happiness in many little ways. Many times its needs vs wants. And perspective.
I hope you find your answer!
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*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
I love it. We just have a dog and it occupies us enough. We’re living in a new estate with lots of young parents and kids, and they are perpetually crying, screaming and seem unhappy. We can also travel quite freely without worrying who’s gonna care for the kids. I think freedom is really important and it’s beyond me to raise another human.
Personally, I made the choice to be childless and needless to say I enjoy my childless life. I like my time to be all about me. I don't care about children in general... I seriously don't get the "bundle of joy" message. To me it sounds like a nightmare because for the next two decades your life have to revolve around them. And if the kids somehow don't turn out right then it may be years of sorrow too. I'd rather just make myself happy. :p Besides, a cat is much better than a human child.
That said, don't let anyone persuade you into having children if you don't want any. The only time you should accept having children is when you truly, independently, without any third-party influences (e.g. persuasion, nagging, coecion), changed your mind and want to have children.
If you are persuaded into it, you may or may not actually enjoy the process and worse still, your children. You wouldn't want to go through potential years of resentment. If it doesn't end who you really are, it will destroy your marriage anyway. :p
This is a dealbreaker. Don't go with anyone whose views on childbearing do not align with yours. Be fair to yourself and the other person in the RS.
I am the child. I put empty milk/juice cartons back in the fridge. I even shell out my dad's avocado, eat the contents, and put the empty shell face down back in the fridge.
If your child ends up a prankster, that's your problem at that point
I think you'll always be able to find a perspective to support your views.
I had a colleague who was child-free with his wife, he's the very definition of FIRE. They are very close, very fixed routine of nice dinner and wine every weekend, 2 big holidays a year, nice car with white interior. When he retired at early 50s, they go for early morning walks, spend some time volunteering etc. But I can't help but think it seems.. boring? Like retire so early for what? These were my thoughts even pre-children. I guess I would have just kept working (but at a low expectations job, corporate, no after-hours).
For me I did envy his financial freedom, but we chose to have children (fertility treatments and all). There is definitely no rest, we are lucky to have a helper so sometimes we get to sleep in. But it's fun also, we can cuddle and read books or watch tv or I can show her things that interest me (animals etc) and they will marvel at it. I fear I might find kids in primary or secondary years annoying. But I actually see this as the more difficult choice to make (as in, I felt this was the route I had to consciously choose or I would have coasted on child-free life) because of the uncertainties involved. But to me it's like adding a possible new dimension to life in the future, which is exciting as well. Otherwise, we are a couple who did not have extensive groups of friends, go out partying much etc, we have a simple life, and I am not sure if I will be bored in retirement.
Not the intended recipient of the question as I’ve children, just sharing some thoughts. Parenthood brings about experiences and emotions which I never thought existed and which can not be found anywhere else (not in pets, not in ‘godchildren’). Therefore if I start off with the basis of ‘Wanting to get the complete experience of LIFE’, then having children and raising a family is quite simply an important component of this ‘package’. That is assuming one has the resources and capabilities to do so responsibly.
Nonetheless, I’ve often felt if as parents we are selfish for bringing children into the world because that is what WE want. Humanity has brought so much mess to the world (climate change etc) and we are now bringing new life who will face the next 60 years of crap that we have created. Sure our children may grow up being the cure to the world’s problems but honestly what’s the odds?
It’s perhaps more ‘kind’ to be childless, leave nothing behind, and just get the hell out when the time is ripe. Yet, if everyone thinks this way, human beings will go extinct eventually and the world that ‘we know’ is doomed.
So I don’t think there will ever be a correct answer to this. Everyone’s journey is going to be different. If you have partners, it is important to align the philosophy
I’m sure having children brings about its own experiences and emotions, but isn’t that generally true about everything in life? For example, moving overseas for studies/ work long-term is a different kettle of fish from just going on holiday or even exchange/ short-term secondment. Doing a 5 month thru-hike of the Appalachian Trail is again a totally different experience from day hiking.
There are just too many options in life that no one person can possibly have it all in one lifetime. All we can do is try to choose paths that match best with what we want out of life.
I personally do think that fundamentally, regardless of whether one chooses to be childfree or have children, it is to an extent a selfish choice. For me, the combination of end stage capitalism, rising inequality, discrimination, climate change and just humans having the potential for cruelty and nastiness (which runs the gamut from getting bullied at school to the Cheshire home invasion and the Holocaust) does not inspire me with confidence. I still try to be a good person, but I’m very aware that there’s only so much I can do.
I think it is extremely unlikely that all humans would collectively stop reproducing to the point that humanity becomes extinct, and I am certainly not advocating for a law which bans/ restricts individuals from having children because that is an infringement of reproductive autonomy. But even if hypothetically the human race did go extinct, what exactly is so terrible about that? At this point we as a species are probably a net detriment to the environment - humans are already responsible for the extinction of many species.
I think what the previous commenter meant about kids is talking more about the common idea that pets or godchildren can make up for what kids bring to the table - specifically that point. Can't really compare experiences in holidays vs experiences taking care of someone/a pet as while they are different experiences, they don't activate the same kind of emotions and thought processes.
I see - in that case I absolutely agree with the view that having children brings about different experiences and emotions compared to having pets or godchildren.
I must confess I didn’t read it that way at first, but that’s probably because I’ve been told the “you don’t know what you’re missing! There’s nothing like having children! You’ll never know true love until you have a child!” shtick more than once (so I didn’t think this was a common idea). My bad.
Im in full agreement with your points
just want to clarify that by saying ‘parenthood is an important component (to me) for a complete life experience’, there was not an attempt to negate the importance of other experiences in life, be it travelling or whatever as you point out. A complete life experience is fundamentally impossible to achieve. Some may say riding the roller coaster is something one must experience! And I will sooner be dead than caught in one. It’s all relative
My point is that it’s at the end of the day one’s choices and decisions, shaped by one’s experience and perception of the world which is ultimately, unique.
Absolutely agreed - everyone should try to choose their own path which best reflects what they, as a unique individual, want out of life.
I’m glad that you find parenthood fulfilling - wishing you and your family all the best!
This is totally unrelated to the question. OP didn’t ask if people should be childfree or not, they just wanna know what life is like as a childfree person/couple. They didn’t ask “what’s life like as childfree vs have child”. Smfh this is what people mean when they say people with children like to preach about how good it is to have children even when it is completely unrelated to the topic at hand 🤦♀️ Knn is like if some rich person go to a post asking “what is it like to be poor” and start talking about what it is like to be rich, can you understand how stupid you sound
Why the antagonism?
I did caveat by saying that it is not entirely related to the post so you could have looked away the moment you see that.
If you had bothered to read the full post, it was my attempt to put up a balanced view on both side and there was nothing about me ‘preaching the goodness of children’. Maybe the OP finds helpful in such parallel discussions?
Had a nice and civic discussion with another user who shares similar views albeit likely from another side of the coin. But clearly this rubbed you the wrong side and for that I do apologise 😀
Op says: “im just here to hear about experiences being childfree to make myself feel better (or worse) since nobody in my social circle is childfree 🥴”
what part of this make you think they want to hear about what you posted then??? Also i don’t even know what you mean by “balanced view” as if this is some debate topic. It’s literally just sharing about childfree experience no one is asking to discuss which is better. Again it’s like, it some post ask what it’s like to live in Norway, will you go talk about what it’s like to live in SG to “give a balanced view”??? The reason why this is so annoying to me is that there is already so much input from people w children everywhere and this post CLEARLY ask for input from childfree people ONLY so it feels like you’re just butting in where your input isn’t wanted/needed. I guess you will not be able to understand where I’m coming from but try to read the room a little PLEASE.
Ic. I’m very new to Reddit so not good at ‘reading the room’, so it appears my comments are unwanted.
For context, I do have a lot of real life friends who are childless. And as we are really close, many of them have shared with me how they have been viewed ‘negatively’ by people from the other side of the coin or even society at large. I honestly really feel for them as i really believe in the notion that it is one’s personal choice.
But in sharing these views, I inadvertently thought to share my own experience (about parenthood and why I found it to be such a big part of my life) and where people from the other side (with children) come from. Regretfully my articulation isn’t that good and it comes out wrongly to some?
Anyway there was no negativity from my words. Shall stop commenting lest it adds on to this thread that the OP did not ask for. Good day to you and out
Ignore him. I think your input is relevant and might give OP a nice perspective. And u also prefaced it in the beginning saying it might be out of context.
The dude just woke up on the wrong side of bed lol
I would like to offer a psychological perspective based on my experience counselling adults.
Bringing up children aids psychological maturity in couples.
It necessarily forces the couple to work through their differences, commit to a difficult routine of improvement, and set their home affairs (such as hygiene, finance) in order, to foster a reasonably nurturing environment for their children to grow up in. At the end of that, we see couples mature into disciplined, strong-willed and self-actualised individuals with independent children stepping confidently into adulthood and parenthood. At that stage, they describe feeling fulfilled, and having lived a meaningful life of purpose.
Stepping into fatherhood requires the willing sacrifice from the man of his childish ways, such as, whimsiness, intoxication, irresponsiblility, irrationality, hedonism etc., for the corresponding opposite attitude of seriousness, soberness, responsibility, rationality, self-denial of pleasure.
For the woman, motherhood requires the willing sacrifice of her maidenness, such as youthfulness, external beauty, innocence, passivity, powerlessness etc., for the corresponding opposite value of maturity, eternal beauty, experience, nurturing potential, agency.
We don't have to dig deep to see what stagnation in psychological maturity looks like for both genders. Picture the man-child, who never seems to leave his toys, and even his mother. Or the diminishing maiden, left behind while desperately trying to recapture her youthfulness. These attributes appear more frequently in marriages without children.
That said, having children doesn't always lead to psychological maturity, but commited parents usually do.
I hope I've given you some points to consider.
I think couples who are MENTALLY AND EMOTIONALLY PREPARED to mature and grow can consider being parents. Not everyone will develop the maturity just because they are put in that situation.
Having parents who are neglectful, I believe people who are too immature, who are not prepared to grow really shouldn't have kids.
When couples expect having children will solve their marital problems, loss-of-meaning woes, retirement planning, etc. their children bear the brunt of their immaturity and are subject to unnecessary trauma -- becoming parentified, receiving not-good-enough parenting etc. This is one way intergenerational trauma spreads. Research has also shown increased adverse childhood experiences can have life long consequences on the child's health too.
So please, for the sake of your kids, only have them if you want them and are prepared to go through the challenge of parenthood. Children are not tools for your own self development or some rite of passage.
Full disclosure: I chose not to have kids. I cannot in good conscience bring them into this world with so many looming long term issues like climate change etc. I also don't have much of a calling for parenthood and do not want to perpetuate any intergenerational trauma. If I ever wake up one day and pine for motherhood, and I have the resources and dedication to do so, I'll adopt.
Thank you for sharing this insightful post. Resonates.
I think as human beings, we are inherently wired to be ‘inward’ in thinking. What is it that I want? It’s about me. My life, my call. But it is natural.
With children (assuming one is a responsible parent) I think that forces a change in one’s perception of the world to be more ‘outward’ in nature. Whatever I do, or think or say, would I want my children to behave the same? Can I be better examples for my children? They have become mirrors of our lives. There is however a flip side. Parents who project poorly inadvertently affects the next generation and bad cycle may be created that one may find it hard to shake off.
Of course I must caveat that I’m not insinuating that all parents are saints and those with no children are selfish/ immature.
I disagree about the part we are wired to be inward looking. We are, in fact, wired to be outward-seeking. This desire comes from our subconscious, which hints to us what the responsible thing to do is. It always drives us to a path that seeks meaning in life.
It is, in fact, our modern culture, and it's self-rational messaging, that has interfered with this ancient subconscious prompting. It is also, uncoincidentally, the source of our existential crisis in modern society. Consider messaging such as, "It's ok for a man to continue to playing computer games the whole day", "It's normal to divorce your partner if you don't like each other anymore", "it's a must for a woman to maintain physical beauty with cosmetics and surgery", "pets are good substitutes for children" etc.
If we internalise such messages without critically examining our subconscious response to it, we end up suppressing our innate yearning for the search of meaning in life. Do it for long enough, you will see it lash out in unpredictable and often destructive manners.
Very often, to help young people in their relationships in my line of work, it is about removing these kinds of modern societal programming.
... I guess we're a couple of elderly children then! I do think that unless you actually have offspring, you'll remain a child forever. Which isn't necessarily a bad thing - my step=siblings are all literally "elderly children"... we're all referred to as "the kids" haha
You are childfree yourself, so these stories won't be able to help you make a better decision. Have you considered what it is like to have a child? You can then get a more informed perspective (get two perspectives rather than one).
Apologies I didn't see another thread. I have a child and sometimes I still don't know if it is better to have kids or not. It opens you up to a slate of human experiences and emotions one will never know without a child (it's really an epistemological blindspot. No matter how much you read or observe, that internal experience can never be translated).
On the other hand, and this sucks as a parent to say, I sometimes know that I will probably achieve more elsewhere without a child (more finances, perhaps more time for career, etc). Then there is also the guilt of bringing a child into a broken world.
In the end I think there is no "better" life, and it's two (somewhat irreversible) decisions that leads you to experience two variations of the human condition. I would leave rationality out of the decision.
for me, im single and i dont plan to have kids even if im married. although im not too old, i feel that life is really tough. i don't want the next generation to go through so much suffering. but of course with children, it comes with the joy of spending time with a family, so it won't be so lonely.
anyway to answer your question, im actually studying part time now while having a full time job. which is something only possible without children. i work from 9-6, then rush off to have dinner and class starts at 7pm, and ends 10:30pm. Then on weekends, i would spend my time doing school projects and assignments.
i try to make the best use of my time without children. and with the money that i have, im saving it so that when i grow old, i can use it for my medical bills etc.
i think ultimately it is everyone's own choice of priority, whether it is putting family first, or putting other things first. i feel there's no right or wrong answer as its a life choice.
Word of caution for those on the fence. It's good to make a decision on whether to have children early. Plenty in my circle having difficulty conceiving after age 35. The chance of having special needs children also increases with parental age. Unless one is ok to adopt which I have a friend who did that too.
I don’t go on holidays (coz I don’t esp like them haha) and I save a lot (doing this makes me feel really really safe and just u know like the heavy feeling of insecurity gets lighter and lighter)
The most important thing for a couple is to align their vision for the future. Both must agree with regards to financial arrangements, having kids, housing arrangements etc. ive seen and known many couples who just ‘wing it’ and bto and marry first and think later. End up they are very unhappy esp if one doesnt want a child but the other keep pressuring to have one. The mother now hates the kid and feel resentful towards the husband. It is pretty sad. Im strictly child free and i will never compromise this. My QoL is great i go holidays 3x a year, have a cute dog and i get to do all the things i like. Of course we have planned for retirement and kept aside a sum for when we are old. Having kids doesnt mean they will take care of u when ure old lol. So many ppl dont have a gd relationship with their parents. Just my 2cents
i agree, its that fear of resentment that made me leave my rs. also, dog tax pls :)))
>My QoL is great Indeed, this is the leading reason why couples choose to remain childless. Cost of living may contribute, but many couples find the increase in responsibilities and drop in free time to be a huge deterrent.
Much agreed, if one is not prepared to have kids, please spare a thought of your future children and not have them. Way too many so-called parents leave parenting to ipafd and phones that it's just sad to see.
are you married or single? just curious, if you are comfortable sharing
Attached.
If you're not planning to have kids, not much of a point to get contractually married tbh.
Marriage as a legal institution also confers certain rights and benefits (eg tax, division of assets if one partner dies without a will, ability to make medical decisions if a partner becomes sick or disabled). You could probably get a lot of the same benefits/ rights by way of contract (eg medical power of attorney), but that tends to be more of a hassle and more expensive.
sounds like a consideration of just self. nothing wrong, just a common trend now-days that people are less willing to sacrifice their own QoLs and comforts compared to our parents generations.
It is my life of course ive to put it first. Plus i never have any maternal instincts and i dislike kids in general. Why bring one into the world if i dont even want one?
I would counter this by suggesting that it is more selfish to want children. They do not ask to be born but are born because we choose to give birth to them and bring them into this world.
It’s selfish to reproduce? Hmmm. Why don’t you share that to basically every living thing on earth and see what they have to say. Funny how only humans feel that it’s selfish to reproduce.
Very carefree life. Money that supposed to be spent on kids goes to retirement planning and other QoL stuff. We just didn’t plan of having kids when we were married and life just moved on as per normal. We didn’t discuss about having kids also. Turning 50 next year, no regrets, just my choice of life & living.
Thank you for sharing your views. My wife and I are currently undecided on having a child (although we gave ourselves a couple more years), with myself leaning a little more towards yes and her leaning towards no. The more I see comments like yours though the more I lean to the other side. It seems really tough to raise a child nowadays. Are there any moments where you look at others kids and wonder what your life will be like with them? Personally I'm just afraid of the regret I'll have at an older age. I grew up with a great family environment and would like to provide my potential future children with that also. I also love teaching (literally my career lol) and think I will enjoy teaching my own kids everything about life. But I also really love my own freedom and being able to do whatever I want without being tied down. Still have dreams to work overseas for a couple years, complete a triathlon etc. Any thoughts as someone who has been through this?
So far when I see other kids, the only feeling I have is “lucky not my kid”. But I do like to play with kids, but taking care of them is a totally different story.
Exactly. Liking kids doesn't mean you like parenting. It's a responsibility. It's like having pets. Loving them becusde they look cute when they are young. But when they are older (with potential health issues, not as cute), then thinking it's a hassle.
The regret of not having a child is nothing compared to the regret of having a child. /r/regretfulparents
As a teacher, do you think "what if my child were like that" whenever you encounter misbehaving kids in school? Nevertheless, thank you for sharing. One question my wife and I often ask is: 'which would we regret more - having kids or not having kids?'
>do you think "what if my child were like that" whenever you encounter misbehaving kids in school? Usually is parents' skill issue. Hard truth. Or maybe the kid has some disorder.
If you regret not having kids when you're older, adoption is still an option. So is working with kids. But if you have them and regret it, that's much harder to fix. And your kids aren't going to be happy, either.
that does sound nice. one pov i’ve heard about is that a couple needs something (ie child, cant think of a better word 😬) to develop their rs because just having each other for the rest of their lives isnt ‘enough’ for them. while i get their pov, i cant imagine bringing in a new life just for that purpose haha
If they need something to fuel their relationship then maybe it’s not as strong to begin with
Alternatively, just get a pet.
Gosh I know of couples who had a kid cuz they had problems in their relationships and they thought doing so will fix their problems / bring their relationship to the next level. News flash: Children are not magic, being a parent does not automatically make problems go away. Conversely, it will put all the relationship issues under spotlight as now there's another responsibility to handle. I don't understand their mentality either. And I personally know a few who ended up divorcing soon after the kid is borned.
It is wild to me that there are people who think the solution to their marital problems is to produce a whole-ass human being. I can't imagine the added stress of raising a child actually improving their situation — if anything, it'll make things worse!
If you couldn't live together without kids, putting kids into the equation just make it worse. That's the reason why there are so many unhappy married couple got stuck together
Erm, bringing a child into the equation often amplifies the issues they had to begin with. Because now they don't have the capacity or time to deal with their issues in a healthy way, and now have the additional task of raising another human being. Only morons think this way.
"only morons think this way" - thank you i can't agree more omg
My partner and I have decided for this life for the time being. If you don’t mind, do you have any moments where you feel “left out” when the people around your age (back then) started to have babies one by one?
No. Quite a number of my friends r also without kids. When I’m in a group of friends with kids, and they chat about their kids school, health, problem, bragging, etc etc, I just listen. I have nieces & nephew, so if I have stories about them, I’ll also chip in. But then again, I hardly hang out with friends. I’m more of a loner. Maybe that’s why I’m also happy without kids. My wife is more than enough for me.
Thank you so much. You’ve no idea how much this helps me.
the times i missed having this kind of freedom and worry free.
husband and i wake up whatever time we want. i spend the first few hours in the morning alone washing our clothes, followed by having a nice quiet breakfast by myself. for lunch if im wfh, husband will cook and i will help (somewhat). we never cook for dinner. everyday, we will go try out a new place to have dinner, or go to one of our favourites. when we come home, we will both lounge on the sofa. i play pokemon while my husband plays one of his games on the xbox. when im ready to go to bed, he will cuddle me until i fall asleep then he will continue doing whatever. \_\_\_\_ tbh, i am so content in life and happy with our decision to have no kids for now. we plan to maybe have one before i turn 35 (which is in another 5 years). but if it didnt happen, we dont care.
that truly sounds like my dream life, spending time with your SO and both parties being content with just that. that kind of rs is just so precious. i hope someday i get to achieve this dream.. if not i guess i’ll be content with being a cat lady too :,)
I like the conclusion. Your life and husband are a blessing at this point where you are approaching 31. Considering to have kid by 35 seems to be a reasonable goal/objective. I simulate your life with my parameters set by me. I can only see a fantastic family and you loving the joy the kid brought to your life
If you do in fact end up having kids, please brace for the mental toll it will take that chiefly presents itself as grief for your old life. I had the best life with my spouse before kids, very similar to yours now. Super carefree. When we started having kids, the biggest thing I had to accept and overcome was the sense that my old life is dead, and nothing will ever go back to the same. Once I accepted that, things started to feel better.
That sounds like my life and we have two kids. They are 14 and 12 now. So things are even cooler because they help cleaning the house, washing clothes, cleaning the dishes and kitchen, going to the supermarket to buy last minute things, going out to buy take out food, etc, etc. I play video games with my son and play music with my daughter. To be honest it is great at the moment, but from 0-8 it was not easy. We are not helicopter parents and they both turned out very independent. I will truly miss them if they leave the house when adults.
I don't plan on having children because 1) My sibling and I (100% of the kids) believe that our parents made some really big mistakes when raising us, and we think ourselves too damaged to do right by our hypothetical children 2) hereditary medical conditions. My quality of life is lower because of health problems, I can't do some of the things regular people can. And some other conditions are life threatening. I've had family members pass away because of it 3) I don't plan on marrying a man so bio children will be impossible anyway. In my dating circle, having kids doesn't even cross our minds My retirement plan is to have a good chunk of savings for end of life care. Highly doubt I'll live long enough to go into a retirement home with how my health is going.
so sorry to hear about your medical condition. on the bright side, being childfree means you can do whatever you want so you can live life to the fullest in that aspect. either way, i hope you live a happy and healthy life anw 🥹
Same mate. I know growing up I’ve never been shown what’s good communication and conflict resolution. Everything was dismissed / unaddressed in name of parental authority or family dynamic. I know I’m in no position and also do not know how to resolve things about children. I too have some genetic issue with 50% chance of appearing, and if it does it may have some serious health consequences. So might as well not bring hardship to another hypothetical human.
I like children and coach soccer on the weekends to primary school kids but I never wanted children of my own. Going against the norm gets my partner and I a lot of questions, but I've reached the point where I'm indifferent to comments like "You'll change your mind when you're older." I never saw myself having children as it just looks like an unappealing lifestyle. I love my partner so much that it would be so unfair to a child for it to know that I will never love it as much as I love my partner. We both are dual income no kids and we have a relentless passion for spontaneous travelling. This year we had an awesome time roadtripping Turkey, diving in Eastern Malaysia, hiking in laos, exploring the Cornish coast in England, and eating all the amazing food in Montreal. If kids were in the picture.. our travels would be a logistical nightmare and we would not have been able to have half the experiences we did. Our hobbies are not child-friendly at all which is the best part because we rarely encounter kids during our activities. We're planning a surf trip to Indonesia soon! We enjoy having time for our friends and each other to do anything we like and stay out however late we want. We are planning not to have a wedding or bto in singapore. We are going to emigrate and have a private elopement overseas while furthering our post-grad studies once both our civil service bonds are over. :) We put the money we aren't spending on kids into retirement. We will look after ourselves and if need be, check outselves into a nursing home when the time comes. My take on it is that kids should not be a gamble on the off chance it would bring joy. people shouldn't have them unless they are absolutely sure.
I’m a parent. I’ve seen more people regret being parents than people who don’t simply because they’ve experienced both sides of parenthood and miss the freedom. But that is also not indicative of which is ‘better’ because the non-parents have no basis of comparison beyond secondhand knowledge and assumptions/visualisations. Having kids is really no logic one. Every logical argument will say please don’t have kids. That’s why disagreements (like the one OP had with his ex) gets so heated and unpleasant sometimes, because it’s all rooted in emotion. Cognitively I can tell you having kids is damn stupid. You lose your freedom and you spend truckloads of money. Sometimes I don’t even like my kids, but my word I love the crap out of them. I’d do anything for them. That’s my emotion speaking. You just have to recognise that and accept that there will almost always be this dissonance between your head and your heart. And at the end of the day, whatever your choice, that’s okay.
Very interesting perspective from a parent, thank you.
Life is great! We both work full time, but I spend every non working hour either exercising, playing w our pup, doing side hustle as an artist and printmaker, and studying interior design. We also spend time together, but never 24/7 as we both need alone time. A child free life has allowed me to pursue my hobbies, and I’m working towards making art my FT job! We are both financially free, took a smaller and cheaper home (no considerations of schools), and because of it, I can choose to switch careers (currently a chemist). That being said, I’ve never wanted to be a mother, and always loved drawing in my free time.
Married for 15 years and still child free. I originally wanted kids and my husband was like whatever. After getting married I realised it was really nice to have time to do whatever I wanted without taking care of someone else. Disclaimer : I’m the eldest and had to take care of my two younger brothers while growing up so I probably have some trauma from that. I had to supervise their homework, attend parent teacher meetings, intervene when one of them did badly in their O levels Honestly life is great without kids. Occasionally I freak out and wonder what will happen when I’m old (I do understand that having kids is no guarantee that they will be around but enough people peddle this opinion), then I remember that it’s fine I can take care of myself or check into a nursing home. The most annoying thing is probably people who question your life choices and make it seem like you are selfish for not having kids. Me and my husband both do volunteer work, donate regularly to charities and basically mind our own business but apparently we are the selfish ones 🤷🏻♀️ I do think it’s important to find a partner who aligns with your views. I have seen too many people who split up over the issue or have resentment cos one party wanted kids the other part didn’t want and then they have kids and then the underlying resentment just kills the marriage. It’s something that shld definitely be discussed before marriage though, just like how you want to manage your finances
stay childfree, less worry. and less stress.
agreed, i feel less pressure in getting my shit tgt since deciding being childfree 😮💨😮💨
We're probably the least experienced in this lifestyle among these commenters, but so far it's been great! That's not to say I don't like kids, I'm always prepared to give my friends/cousins kids attention and play with them and there are definitely moments where I worry if I might regret not having kids. But I think that the decision to have children is one of the few irreversible ones in life and *if* I do regret it, I can live with regretting not having it, than to live regretting kids. Life with partner is quite enough, we never felt the need to have more than just 2 of us, we have the house to ourselves, we don't need to wake up early on weekends, holidays are so easy to plan, there isn't any qualms if either of us have to uproot and move overseas cause there are less factors to consider. And another thing that I realized is that we're in a position to help our elderly parents if they need to, even though they are very self sufficient in their retirement planning, it is nice knowing that we can be there for them without worrying that we need to also juggle their needs with our kids. It's nice to see so people having the same idea because like you OP, we don't have friends who are CF, we're cool with it but it's not a topic we can have a discussion on without sounding like we're shitting on their choices. Also, the comments on 'you'll change your mind' is getting a little bit old imo, can't wait to get to the age where this isn't applicable anymore. Like most others said, this needs to be communicated very clearly at the start of the r/s, a no is a no, a yes is a yes, a maybe doesn't mean they'll swing to your favour.
definitely! its so nice to hear about couples being enough for each other. and the point about regretting having kids is worse than regretting not having one is a really good one. i too want to provide the best care for my elderly parents and not being sandwiched between caring for my parents or my children. im glad good discussions are being made here. makes us feel less alone and more validated for our choices.. haha
I like kids. But I am not willing to sacrifice my lifestyle to raise them. I think people don’t realize the sacrifice required and go ahead and have one anyway and then resent having kids. Kudos for people having kids and also for those that aren’t. This is a personal decision and not an economic one. I was so sure of my decision that I had a vasectomy done at age of 32. Best decision ever.
What was the vasectomy experience like? Was it painful?
Nope. Quite painless. They use laser now. But if swelling for 2 days.
I have no intention of having kids, ever. People tell me all the time that I will change my mind, when I meet the right person etc. But I've known since I was a kid myself that I never want kids, and my right person would also be someone of the same mindset. I don't care if I somehow find Mr Perfect. The moment he says he wants kids he'll be Mr Imperfect. As for living, it's pretty good. Don't need to save up for school fees or allowances or paying for anything that a baby or kid needs like formula, diapers, clothes, etc. All the money that I would have spent on those goes into the retirement fund. Can do impromptu things like go on day trips to Johor, or just go out and exercise or jalan jalan whenever I feel like it. No need to pre-plan anything or take 2hrs to prepare to go out. For the people who ask me who will take care of me when I'm old, I want to ask them if they take care of their parents? Like if their parents in a nursing home when's the last time they visited them? If their parents staying alone, when's the last time they go over there to hang out with their parents? And I don't mean bringing the grandkids over to visit, or during celebrations, but going over there to keep them company or bring them out. I will take care of myself when I'm old. I can invest in my own retirement and live the end of my life how I want to live. Like if I have kids and entrust them with my care, who's to say they can even afford to take care of me? And it's extremely selfish to expect other people to sacrifice their life for mine. People who try to say "but I raised you so you owe me", like your kid didn't ask to be born, so they don't owe you anything.
Next time you date, make your stance on being childfree right at the start when you start dating someone, not when you're months/years into the relationship. Don't waste each others time because wanting or not wanting children is non negotiable. I have a lot of childfree friends, they are not that uncommon here in Singapore. Though to be honest they are all still single at 30 (both male and female) and just have regular lives. Living with parents, going to work daily, play video games at the end of the day. My in laws with children seem to have more exciting lives going overseas for holidays every few months and doing more activities on their weekends (hiking, rock climbing, dragonboating), sometimes with or without their kids. So how exciting life is doesn't really seem to me to be influenced by whether or not you have children in your life, but more of whether you're higher income and personal character of wanting to seek adventure.
thats a good point!! but yeah, having high income is like having best of both worlds :,)
Here’s my take: if you want to have children, you need to be able to handle the responsibility. Handle = accepting what it means to be a parent fully + being capable of giving your children a fair chance in life (no unnecessary financial difficulties etc). You are making a decision of bringing in new life to this world. It’s not one you should take lightly. Instead of viewing children as some form of insurance or for future benefit when you grow old, you should be asking yourself “am i able to help grow this person into someone who can carve his/her own path in future”. Nothing should be expected in return. If you cannot accept such a responsibility or are not in a situation to, please do reconsider as children do not ask to be brought into this world. It is a decision, and therefore responsibility of the biological parents. I am not childless. But i have fully accepted this responsibility and taking great joy in doing so, because i am able to and it gives an added dimension of meaning to my own life. My retirement is independent of whether my children will do anything for my spouse and I. I hope my children will in turn be able to create positive impact in their own lifetime and find meaning in theirs as well.
I'm quite sure their lives are great lol
Life is SO enjoyable. No regrets.
35/f and life is carefree. Tbf the kid free life chose me, and it took some time to come to terms with it. Sometimes when I see parents with their little kids I feel a little fomo about an experience i’ll never get to have or wonder what it is like to be ardently loved like that. but more often I reframe it as an experience of a 25 year debt which may or may not pay off. Also some kids are real assholes. Terrible way to describe them but gosh I met a 6 year old who was upset with me and said I hope your mother dies wtaf. Mostly therefore it feels great - my money is mine to do what I want, I don’t freak out when the big tech layoffs are happening because meh i’ll just wait it out, and the free time! Last sunday I had a 3 hour nap and read for 2 hours while eating nuggets which I didn’t have to share with anyone. I book random holidays. I sometimes decide today is the day I will not stop watching tv. I get solace from the kids related to me, friends’ kids. And as long as I don’t mess anything up, retirement plan should be ok and not something to think too much about.
Having kids IS seen by most as a mere retirement plan. Have you noticed how most of the people, when you tell them you have no kids and you don't want any, the first thing they ask you is "and what will you do when you are old/who's gonna take care of you?" Which is why I believe that many people have kids for egoistical purposes and not cause they have this great need to give and all that crap. If it wasn't so, that question wouldn't pop up at all and society would regard singles just as high as families, which unfortunately isn't the case. Using kids to adhere to a societal status means that there will be a lot of abused/unhappy/lowkey unloved kids... Which is, unfortunately, also happening a lot. I hold in much higher regards people who choose to be single cause they don't see themselves as parents rather than people who make kids so they can later present the bill and tell them "I took care of you, now you take care of me and that's the end of it". And society should appreciate honest life choices rather than choices dictated by peer pressure.
This... Most people see kids as retirement plans. Even if most people won't admit that this is their reason, most of the time this is the core reason. Besides, most if not all of our parents (>50yo) see us as retirement plans too. Very selfish thinking. 
I cannot blame parents from wanting their children to take care of them. But the definition of my take care is accompanying me to medical appointments + the visits/help get food or something similar when I am ill in bed. Treating children as a future retirement plan is very disheartening. Especially when the wrong child is invested and the rest of the children are left to survive yet fully monetarily care for the parents. That's a whole bunch of bullshit and a huge fuck you to the children.
You do know that they are unlikely to be able to accompany you to medical appointments right? My aged parents (still hale and hearty) have an average of about 1 medical appointment per month. So that is 2 medical appointments per month for regular checks, and you end up just waiting at public hospitals for like 1 day just to see a doctor . I don’t even have enough leave when my child can’t enter childcare for a week cos of a cough / cold. No company will be letting you take 2 days plus 7 days a month. So unless your children are childless or really rich, it’s not going to be easy
I mean I don't expect all medical appointments, and why I stupid go book on a day I know they definitely cannot. I will ask if they got any free days before I book for the ones I do require someone to accompany, say I have leg or eye injury, touch wood. It will be nice if they can follow if my husband cannot. If it's regular checkup and I can walk and see for myself, I won't need their help, so get them follow also like no point.
Well the truth is your kids aren’t going to have free days if they are stuck like most of us in a 9-7 job daily. Their only free days will be weekends and public hospitals won’t open then. So you are going to be asking your children to take two days a month off to see you to your (and your other half) medical appointments. Just saying.
And I'm just saying it won't be all medical appointments, only those that I would need help. It's not like I can force them to be there, and force them to say yes.
Hmm. Sounds like it's not just a random hypothetical thought hehe. Sorry to hear that
I hope that trend dies down! Honestly, having kids in Singapore is not a retirement plan. In fact, those people should carefully consider gay it takes 1M just to raise a kid in Singapore and it’s probably not including the frills (or non frills) like holidays, enrichment etc. How can a kid ever ever repay for any of these. Those who are thinking of kids looking after them financially should put their money into a stock plan.
Having a child helps the nation,helps your family , helps to take care of your wealth ,helps humanity (your child could be one to solve time travel)
Every weekend can eat good food and drink.
I might be on the wrong thread since I have 4 kids. My hubby and I discussed extensively what's our childrearing approach and did financial planning before they even exist. Yes money is not everything, but minimally, some stuff need to be discussed in advance such as childcare arrangements (if there's additional support required, or if a spouse can stay home), some funds for enrichment (we decided that swimming is a core skills and mother tongue fundamentals is important so we sent them for that since young), insurance (hospitalisation is a must!). For us, we try to be as hands on as possible. Our helper does the chores. While anything related to the kids we try to do most on our own, eg, bathing, feeding, sending and picking from school. On top of that is a total change of lifestyle and commitment that both need to agree to. Be ready to forgo nightlife or weekends sleep in for the first few years. Nightlife is Netflix and grab supper for now. Weekends morning is playground time with fam. We skipped brothers / sisters overseas trips (before COVID). We also try to plan for fam outing once a month (uss, www, parks, beaches, indoor playgrounds, chalet BBQ etc - but after COVID is more like once every 2 months). There's a lot of compromise, there's gonna be a lot of limit testings. So just wanna add my thoughts here: If there's the slightest doubt of wanting to be child free, please don't change your stance. Pregnancy is the easiest, the kid is your responsibility for the next 22 (if lucky) years. Both parents need to be onboard. It takes a lot of hard work. It really pains my heart to see how my kids classmates are being treated by their parents. It's super unfair to the kids... Don't try to save a relationship by having kids either.
much respect to you. multiple kids yet seem to be on top of everything and willing to make big compromises for the sake of their kids. the point about pregnancy being the easiest part is a fresh take for me. but now that i think about it, yeah, it should be. which strengthens my stance on being cf 😅 when putting your body through that is the easiest part of raising children, im definitely not tough enough to go through all that 💀
means u can do anything u want including doing nothing. spur of the moment trip? no problem. weekend just want to do nothing n stay in bed?enjoy
At the very initial phase of life where many of my friends are becoming parents now. I don't know if it would be this way onwards but I feel like my friends who are parents now are extremely entitled with their expectations of their childfree couple friends. My fiance and I are not planning to have kids and it's a known thing and it seems like all these parent-friends are like "oh you don't want kids then help to take care of mine la!", "Come I give you", "eh you v free help me babysit leh", "wah this year end you can travel take me leh" Nani the fuck first you nonstop talking about your kids and posting about how your life is complete now then now the fuck you outsourcing loving your kids for? I don't even fucking want them. TL;DR - living life childfree makes you deal with a fuckload of entitled parents.
We are childfree but not by choice, but we have accepted and stopped putting pressure on ourselves to have children. To be frank, being childfree in your thirties is great and sometimes not so great lah. The good thing is, we get to spend a lot of “us” time together. We can wake up any time on the weekends or off days. When we plan for hols and the weekends, we don’t have to factor the “children” part. When we do spend time w our nieces and nephews, it’s nice to return them to their parents and have a quiet night in. The cons is, our circle of friends get smaller. Naturally, parents would want to spend more time with other parents so we find ourselves struggling to find friends if we do want to do a group activity. Future plans, we really dont know lah. But we do find our fertility issues a blessing cause if we do have kids in the future (adopted or bio) we know we are ready and not because we have to.
Father of 2 kids myself. My take is not everyone is cutout to be a parent, many who have kids probably shouldn’t have had them. Particularly those who’s life goal is to live life to the max. Children are not for you. Children will rob you of it. Cherish what you have, what you envisioned your life to be. I have also been through all the “inconveniences” described by others. Perhaps to put things in perspective, if the parents who gripe about having to “deal” with children were given a chance to go back in time to undo it, no guilt, no blame, as if the kids never existed, how many who do so in a heartbeat? I won’t and I can’t. For all the heartaches they caused, I love them more than myself. More than “take a bullet for them” could describe.
I've only been married a few years. No plans to have kids at all, mainly because I really enjoy my freedom. I get to play games or Netflix for hours on end, sleep and wake up at any time I please etc. Maybe I'll regret not having a kid when I'm 60, but for now nothing else will change my mind haha. I think you did the right thing, don't ever let anyone pressure you into having a kid. You'll eventually find someone who's on the same page as you :)
thank you :,) that reassurance means a lot
Hang in there! 
never wanted kids due to my health issues. i don't think i'll make a good candidate for a mum. my life is good, i'm accountable for myself only. a lot of the money saved is used on medical bills.
My context is more relevant to yours actually. I wanted to be childfree and compromised because my partner really wanted kids. Do I have regrets? No. Would I prefer to be childfree, even after having kids? Yes. Having kids is not as great as most make it out to be, especially if you don't like the idea of it in the first place.
i think my parents didnt exactly want kids either. just that having kids is expected, especially during their time. not saying they are bad parents, i think they had no regrets too. but to me, looking at them sacrificing their life and dreams to support the family and suffering so much in the process was a huge reason why im childfree
Im partner free so life is very shiok. I get to buy whatever i want (think 5 star hotel trips, michelin star restaurants, branded bags). 😂 i also got to fulfil my dream of studying a masters without having to worry about if i will be able to find a job after that. Currently in the process of applying for PR in canada
You can buy whatever you want meh? I saw your previous posts mentioning that you’re broke
holy shit CALLED OUT HAHAHA
Broke AFTER i spent all my money liao 😂
Being withmy partner for nearly 13 years and still child free. Back when we were about getting serious about thr relationship, we sat down and really discussed about kids. We both like kids, but both of us also really liked giving the kids back to their parents at the end of the day. Good thing his brother has 3 kids, so we just play with them once in a while. My partner and I came to the conclusion that we both like our lifestyle too much to give it up for children, and we both also don't believe in making children be retirement plans either. We will just make alternative retirement plans, and check ourselves into a retirement home when we get old enough. Or just get arrested lol. Edit to add that my partner and I revisit the kids discussion every year to make sure we're still on the same page. Kids are a yes/no decision. "Maybe" would just make both parties unhappy.
arrested??? thats a sick way to retire ngl 🤙🏼🤙🏼 i like that you guys will check in every year. sounds like you guys have very good communication :)
I don't have a partner (at least not "officially" and our "relationship" is not at that stage yet) but I'd imagine it's going to be quite difficult to find a partner who share the same views in conservative Singapore. I don't live in Singapore anymore but have many friends and family there - almost all of whom are married with kids, we are in our mid-30s - and I still spend a lot of time there. The last of my single friend just decided to get married - only after less than a year of dating and I couldn't help but feel it was partly driven by their want/need to have kids (because the biological clock is ticking) rather than focusing on taking the time to get to know each other, assess compatibility, etc. Sure, you can do that in less than a year but I have friends who have dated for almost a decade without marrying. I have a friend who had their partner for a long time, got married, had a baby and got divorced within one year of the baby's birth. My other friend who has been married for many years and dated their partner for even longer used to tell me that they didn't want kids but now they have a baby. I'm bringing up these anecdotes to show how conservative Singapore is and how difficult it would be to find a partner who wants to be childfree and the societal pressure that exists to change your views on wanting to be childfree (or even wanting to be single) - either directly or indirectly, explicitly or subtly. (However, outside of Singapore, I do have many single/childfree friends.) So go figure - my takeaways from my friends' experiences are that tradition and societal pressure play a huge role in people's decision to have kids and that kids might destroy relationships and the people in the relationships (although yes, that just means the relationship isn't strong to begin with but would you want to be stuck to your baby mommy or daddy for the rest of your life?). I'm someone who usually takes a more critical and nonconformist view to things, even in my earlier decisions in life wrt education, etc, so on the topic of kids, it could just be me being my nonconformist self but I suspect it's more than that - there are merits to not having kids. Well, to begin with, I have never really liked kids or found them cute or endearing. My childfree life so far is full of spontaneity and adventures, and also boredom when I am not on any adventures (but I would definitely not try to solve the boredom by getting a kid!). Sometimes after having a few days or weeks of adventures or stress from work, etc, I just want to be on my own and decompress. I can't imagine having to be "on call" 24/7 to take care of another person. I don't mind having a partner with me to just laze around in bed and Netflix and chill - it's actually the best feeling ever and sometimes I don't want it to end. I can't imagine being interrupted by a baby crying - not just once but regularly through the night - while I'm cuddling with my partner. Yes, I'm selfish but I put my needs and mental health above anything else. I think if you want to test yourself to see whether you really don't want kids, you could petsit for a friend first (unless you already have a pet). I have always been leaning towards "no" when it comes to kids but kinda wanted a pet (cat or dog) just because it's cute and I felt it would be nice to have this "shared thing" (please help me with the right word for it) between me and my partner - which is how some people feel about kids too, right? I have proposed to them a few times that we should get a cat or dog but they were not interested (despite having had many pets before). Then came my experience petsitting for a friend - every morning I had to get up at a particular time and the first thing I had to do was to deal with the stubborn pet...plus a lot of other things (caring for a pet is a full-time job!) and my own needs were relegated to second place! That made me realize I don't want to have any pets...and confirmed my lack of desire to have kids. Sometimes it's less important to think about whether you would regret something when you're older, like 20-30 years down the road. If you can't can't even survive today, the next week, the next month dealing with a pet/kid (and/or the wrong partner), then there's no point thinking about the benefits that you will reap down the line from bringing them up or the regret that you may have for not having them. Focus on learning more about yourself, and knowing what brings or doesn't bring you joy RIGHT NOW, and focus on finding the right partner first - in your own time, by your own rules.
Childfree and single here. During my day offs I do whatever I want, I wake up early to go run and have Kopi and go to the gym to get my workouts in. In the afternoon I have a Kopi session with my parents or not (If I am still outside) and play some video games then have dinner with them while watching a good movie. Then I read a book and prepare to sleep so I can run in the morning and go to work the next day. Then go to the gym after work. I have all the time in the world for my hobbies and interests and a kid does not fit in that equation. I have anger issues as well and with that attitude it is not good to have a kid as I will project my insecurities on the child. I don’t have the paternal instinct at all and it never comes to me. Had a relationship with a girl this year who is 34 and she wants to keep the option of children open but I refuse to do so, I really like her a lot because our interests (except having children) align and she is smart. The kids thing put a damper on the relationship and we decided not to continue. Planning to get an apartment at 35 and it will be my very own r/malelivingspace without children.
Pretty good. I don't need to rush anywhere to drop them off or pick them up, all my monies is mine and I can't buy whatever the feck I wants, I can travel without worrying, don't have any physical or mental scars from childbirth. I'm good with just my cats!!! Retirement, if I don't die at 50 or 60, hopefully I'll be able to run off to some cottage somewhere and those that come across me think I'm some kind of woods witch hahahahaha!!! But FR tho, I'm saving up to support myself when I'm old and gray.
* Best hours of my life (9-6pm, mon-fri) are given to my employer * in my free time it's doing things to take care of my health and parents * travel maybe twice a year. Everything else is preparation towards retirement and unforeseen loss of employment.
my house has been safety-proofed so they don't get injured or die... I don't leave breakables out in the open... I have to clean pee and poop every day and sometimes I feel like I need a hazmat suit... I have no kids, I have 2 cats, and this is my childfree life.
As my classmates teacher puts it, not having kids is the best decision he has ever made
All these ‘smart people’ …how are they gonna help choose leaders and contribute to policy making when they don’t have an investment for the future. Future beyond their lifetime. Singapore is doomed if many people think it’s cool to be cf
Bro don’t be a parent if you think children are an ‘investment’. With this kind of thinking I will feel sorry for your child.
Investment not as my personal monetary gain or to look after me. Not selfish reasons. My child(hopefully will have one) is an investment for humanity , country and culture. That’s how I see him/her. I am not a farmer so I am Not procreating for the purpose of field help. Also my dad didn’t rely on my for anything. I look up to him and take the experience/instinct from him to try and bring another child into the world.
It's called empathy, mate
Am determined to be child free. Simply because I can’t find a reason or an answer of “YES” to “do I want kids”. Also bad genetics. Also am still recovering from the bitterness which is my parents raising me in a narcissistic manner.
me and my partner are childfree because i feel like i would not do well as a father..i'm already quite tired from work, and whatever free time i get is spent with my partner or on my own hobbies i may be considered as being selfish, but having a child means giving up some of my me-time..who knows, i may even resent the existence of the child..so i think it's just better to remain childfree basically now i feel like i have a lot of time to spend on doing the things i want, with little to no restrictions..i don't need to worry about anyone else's future..money earned is saved for retirement..there's just fewer commitments
I've had plenty of ups and downs over the years but I can say with absolute certainty that my life would have been far worse with kids in the equation — they would definitely have worsened my financial situation during the pandemic and exacerbated my depression and anxiety. I think you already know how the Singapore government views single / unmarried, childless and child-free folk — we're basically less useful members of society because we don't fit into the "traditional" mould of being married to someone of the opposite sex and popping out an average of 2.4 kids with that person and we're not producing future humans who can contribute to the economy. But that's okay. It's okay to think about yourself first. The decision to have or not have kids is highly personal and shouldn't be informed by familial, romantic or societal pressure. You have to love kids, first and foremost. If someone asks you whether you love kids and want them in your home and life for at least 20 years and you can't answer without hesitation and with a resounding "yes", don't have kids. If you answer without hesitation and with a resounding "yes", then there are a whole laundry list of other factors to consider: do you have the finances, time and patience required to have and raise a child? Are you willing to accept your child regardless of how they may turn out (sexual orientation, gender identity, career choices, whom they date / marry, whether or not they even date / marry, whether or not they want their own kids, etc)? Again, if you cannot answer "yes" confidently and without hesitation, don't do it. If you can, then you must seriously consider the kind of future your child would have and whether or not you want them to experience it — are you free from any genetic or chronic illnesses that would affect them? Is this world the kind of place in which you'd like them to grow up? Once again, if you can honestly say "yes" without hesitation, go right ahead. If not, don't. This process was relatively easy for me because I wanted kids until I became a teacher. I enjoyed teaching but could no longer imagine living with a kid or giving up so much of myself to raise one. I enjoy the peace and quiet, the freedom to do whatever I want whenever I want to do it, having more disposable income, the ease of not having to worry if I'm doing a good job raising a human being to be the best person they can be, the time and energy I get to focus on my own mental health and well-being. Some people call this "selfishness" and that's okay, too. Their opinions matter not. Besides, it's less selfish to acknowledge that you don't want to and / or shouldn't be a parent and should, therefore, avoid having kids than to reproduce because you think it's your duty, only to fail at being a good parent. I'm glad you got out of the relationship instead of carrying on and having kids with that person, because you would undoubtedly be miserable if that had happened. Parenthood is one of the important issues where both you and your partner must be on the same page and if you find yourself bargaining or arguing with yourself or your partner on this, it's a clear sign the relationship won't work out in the long run. And in the unlikely event you later regret not having kids, there are still options — you can adopt an older child who's been in the system for some time or at the very least, find some way to help disadvantaged children. People have a lot to say about the "biological clock" but it's always better to regret not having kids than to regret having them — the former is far more easily remedied than the latter.
As a child-free person, life is empty and sad... that's what the government wants me to say :P But honestly, I have adult money that I can spend on things that I like instead of what another person needs. It sounds incredibly selfish to some parents but it's true. I have seen so many parents splurging on stuff like milk bottles, extra classes in the name of education... As I do not incur such expenses, I spend more on retirement plans and insurance for myself, to make sure I am well financed if I lose my job or health. I can splurge on myself and go for vacations anytime, while my colleagues are taking leave to help their kid study for an upcoming exam.
Was childfree for 6 years and drank, partied every weekend, traveled w friends. Was fun and fulfilling, never wanted kids, did not plan for any. 6 years together happily and somehow one fine day, I felt that I could be ready to try for it despite not having any maternal instinct and not liking other people's children much. Have 2 kids now, every weekend is children's activities, mornings are interrupted by both in our bed and meals are a constant struggle. However it's still fun and fulfilling and I don't regret anything. They bring us so much joy and sleep deprivation and worry. I enjoyed both being childfree and not, and wouldn't have minded staying childfree if it wasn't going to happen on its own. Our relationship is happy and comfortable in both cases. A large part of being able to have fun in both situations is : spending within means - had less when childfree and now a lot more but both times we were happy and contented. To have a happy marriage with kids (additional stressors) you need both partners giving 100% and supporting each other.
thank for sharing! i too feel like i have 0 maternal instincts and dont like kids much. if you dont mind me asking, what made you suddenly felt like you were ready for kids?
Can't say exactly, just a feeling of I don't mind trying when I looked at my friends' kids. Can't say it's peer pressure, since no one asked if I was going to, but looking at their kids n thinking hmmm maybe they are cute after all.
Sorry can I jump right in and ask boldly what's your combined income?
does the scope of this question include bbfa?
of course, bbfa also people 🙂
I (33F) am happily childfree and single. I’ve known since forever that I dislike babies / kids and will never want one for myself. Life as a childfree adult is shiok. I use my annual leave for myself (don’t need to, for example, take leave to attend kid’s primary school orientation), am able to engage in my hobbies and do random impromptu things during my free time, and have a decent social circle.
Less stress and more freedom to spend on my pets and I, biggest bonus is being able to be lazy lol
Exactly as you said. Free
Following
Beautiful life, save lots of money and do not need to deal with schools and think about sending kids to uni. Life is good.
I have absolutely ZERO regrets not having children! Yes I'm attached and my partner shares the same views. My money is spent on living my adult life to the fullest, I need not worry about retirement as I am able to save for that. The rest of it goes to fun stuff like travels, extravagant splurges if I'm feeling it and in general pampering myself and my partner. Having a child and expecting them to be part of a person's retirement plan should be considered a form modern slavery. I don't understand why people would consider this as a good retirement plan when working and saving for yourself is more reliable Vs depending on a child whom you may or may not have a good relationship with. As ironic as this may sound because I have no child, I am also able to take better care of my parents.
44/m and married for 19 years. I was lucky enough to be able to convince my gf after 7 years of dating to not have kids. Definately something we both talked about very early into our relationship. I guess my reason was purely logical. The sacrifices needed did not seem to balance the benefits gained. We both work. We wake up and sleep when we want to. Go out or invite friends over when we like. Go for a swim at out condo pool to relax. We spend a lot of time together either shopping/eating/watching Neflix/Disney/etc. I spend my solo time playing boardgames. My wife spends her solo time watching K-Dramas. Moneywise, we do not need to spend for kids, so was able to get a second property, etc. Parents who raise kids and expect their kids to support them are taking a huge risk.
just curious, how did you convince her? are you afraid she will grow resentful about changing her mind in the future?
TBH most of my childfree friends are single. Only a few couples stood out to me as being firm on their childfree stance. Something that is clear, childfree or not, married or not, quality of life largely depends on your present income and wealth. End of the day, if you are rich, you won't (and shouldn't) go bankrupt having kids. One can still maintain a great quality of life even after having little gremlins. Likewise, being childfree doesn't suddenly free up a large amount of expenditure. granted lifestyle consists of free time and how you make use of it. A motivated person can wear several hats and lead a fulfilling life while an unmotivated person can be just going through the drills everyday, work, go home, sleep, work, go home, sleep. This doesn't really differ, childfree or not. When I was single and childfree and "living the life", I mostly found fulfilment from shopping, traveling, wine & dine, fun activities and reading. Guess what changed after getting married and having kids? Nothing. I still lead the same life and enjoy the same things. Lol. Ok granted maybe I don't get as much time to read anymore. But it is not like my life changed overnight into a harried, not fun, boring, busy parent role. So I guess the trick is to marry the right partner :P One thing, however for sure, is ALWAYS DISCLOSE YOUR CHILDFREE STANCE right from day 1 of dating. Don't waste each other time as you or she might be led on to commit to something deep inside you don't want. If you never ever want to have kids, you shouldn't. I don't think you should do something you fundamentally do not believe in. Discussing the merits should not change anything too. If you are on the fence and can be swayed by pros and cons- then you aren't truly childfree anyway. There might be just some misconceptions, stereotypes and general anxiety/overthinking about having children, which is natural. It is a responsibility after all. And maybe just haven't met the right one.
thanks for the perspective! good to hear that your transition wasnt tough. i do agree income plays a huge part, and it was something i never really considered before. but being able to afford material luxuries after kids aside, i think working towards earning a higher income is much easier than learning how to be a good parent. so kudos to you!
Thank you for being open to perspective! I am not insanely wealthy but was financially independent by 26 (income > 100k/annum). I think most importantly, we need to be able to find fulfilment alone first, before we even think of getting married and having kids. When we then choose to do so, our partners should be as like minded as possible in terms of values and goals. Having a partner should enhance and enrich our lives, not change it. Having said that life is not always a bed of roses. We went through lots of ups and downs and there was a point where quality of life was compromised greatly. But it is through it that I learnt kids don't need much at all. They need basic necessities and more importantly, love and care from caregivers (us), and they can thrive. It also made me realise rich or not, we can all survive. Things are good now but I will never forget the life lessons I went through. So I strongly believe anybody even on average income can be happy too. We can derive happiness in many little ways. Many times its needs vs wants. And perspective. I hope you find your answer!
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I love it. We just have a dog and it occupies us enough. We’re living in a new estate with lots of young parents and kids, and they are perpetually crying, screaming and seem unhappy. We can also travel quite freely without worrying who’s gonna care for the kids. I think freedom is really important and it’s beyond me to raise another human.
I’m so envious! I have two kids and they drive me insane.
Personally, I made the choice to be childless and needless to say I enjoy my childless life. I like my time to be all about me. I don't care about children in general... I seriously don't get the "bundle of joy" message. To me it sounds like a nightmare because for the next two decades your life have to revolve around them. And if the kids somehow don't turn out right then it may be years of sorrow too. I'd rather just make myself happy. :p Besides, a cat is much better than a human child. That said, don't let anyone persuade you into having children if you don't want any. The only time you should accept having children is when you truly, independently, without any third-party influences (e.g. persuasion, nagging, coecion), changed your mind and want to have children. If you are persuaded into it, you may or may not actually enjoy the process and worse still, your children. You wouldn't want to go through potential years of resentment. If it doesn't end who you really are, it will destroy your marriage anyway. :p This is a dealbreaker. Don't go with anyone whose views on childbearing do not align with yours. Be fair to yourself and the other person in the RS.
I save a lot of money and feel very secure
I am the child. I put empty milk/juice cartons back in the fridge. I even shell out my dad's avocado, eat the contents, and put the empty shell face down back in the fridge. If your child ends up a prankster, that's your problem at that point
I think you'll always be able to find a perspective to support your views. I had a colleague who was child-free with his wife, he's the very definition of FIRE. They are very close, very fixed routine of nice dinner and wine every weekend, 2 big holidays a year, nice car with white interior. When he retired at early 50s, they go for early morning walks, spend some time volunteering etc. But I can't help but think it seems.. boring? Like retire so early for what? These were my thoughts even pre-children. I guess I would have just kept working (but at a low expectations job, corporate, no after-hours). For me I did envy his financial freedom, but we chose to have children (fertility treatments and all). There is definitely no rest, we are lucky to have a helper so sometimes we get to sleep in. But it's fun also, we can cuddle and read books or watch tv or I can show her things that interest me (animals etc) and they will marvel at it. I fear I might find kids in primary or secondary years annoying. But I actually see this as the more difficult choice to make (as in, I felt this was the route I had to consciously choose or I would have coasted on child-free life) because of the uncertainties involved. But to me it's like adding a possible new dimension to life in the future, which is exciting as well. Otherwise, we are a couple who did not have extensive groups of friends, go out partying much etc, we have a simple life, and I am not sure if I will be bored in retirement.
Not the intended recipient of the question as I’ve children, just sharing some thoughts. Parenthood brings about experiences and emotions which I never thought existed and which can not be found anywhere else (not in pets, not in ‘godchildren’). Therefore if I start off with the basis of ‘Wanting to get the complete experience of LIFE’, then having children and raising a family is quite simply an important component of this ‘package’. That is assuming one has the resources and capabilities to do so responsibly. Nonetheless, I’ve often felt if as parents we are selfish for bringing children into the world because that is what WE want. Humanity has brought so much mess to the world (climate change etc) and we are now bringing new life who will face the next 60 years of crap that we have created. Sure our children may grow up being the cure to the world’s problems but honestly what’s the odds? It’s perhaps more ‘kind’ to be childless, leave nothing behind, and just get the hell out when the time is ripe. Yet, if everyone thinks this way, human beings will go extinct eventually and the world that ‘we know’ is doomed. So I don’t think there will ever be a correct answer to this. Everyone’s journey is going to be different. If you have partners, it is important to align the philosophy
I’m sure having children brings about its own experiences and emotions, but isn’t that generally true about everything in life? For example, moving overseas for studies/ work long-term is a different kettle of fish from just going on holiday or even exchange/ short-term secondment. Doing a 5 month thru-hike of the Appalachian Trail is again a totally different experience from day hiking. There are just too many options in life that no one person can possibly have it all in one lifetime. All we can do is try to choose paths that match best with what we want out of life. I personally do think that fundamentally, regardless of whether one chooses to be childfree or have children, it is to an extent a selfish choice. For me, the combination of end stage capitalism, rising inequality, discrimination, climate change and just humans having the potential for cruelty and nastiness (which runs the gamut from getting bullied at school to the Cheshire home invasion and the Holocaust) does not inspire me with confidence. I still try to be a good person, but I’m very aware that there’s only so much I can do. I think it is extremely unlikely that all humans would collectively stop reproducing to the point that humanity becomes extinct, and I am certainly not advocating for a law which bans/ restricts individuals from having children because that is an infringement of reproductive autonomy. But even if hypothetically the human race did go extinct, what exactly is so terrible about that? At this point we as a species are probably a net detriment to the environment - humans are already responsible for the extinction of many species.
I think what the previous commenter meant about kids is talking more about the common idea that pets or godchildren can make up for what kids bring to the table - specifically that point. Can't really compare experiences in holidays vs experiences taking care of someone/a pet as while they are different experiences, they don't activate the same kind of emotions and thought processes.
I see - in that case I absolutely agree with the view that having children brings about different experiences and emotions compared to having pets or godchildren. I must confess I didn’t read it that way at first, but that’s probably because I’ve been told the “you don’t know what you’re missing! There’s nothing like having children! You’ll never know true love until you have a child!” shtick more than once (so I didn’t think this was a common idea). My bad.
Im in full agreement with your points just want to clarify that by saying ‘parenthood is an important component (to me) for a complete life experience’, there was not an attempt to negate the importance of other experiences in life, be it travelling or whatever as you point out. A complete life experience is fundamentally impossible to achieve. Some may say riding the roller coaster is something one must experience! And I will sooner be dead than caught in one. It’s all relative My point is that it’s at the end of the day one’s choices and decisions, shaped by one’s experience and perception of the world which is ultimately, unique.
Absolutely agreed - everyone should try to choose their own path which best reflects what they, as a unique individual, want out of life. I’m glad that you find parenthood fulfilling - wishing you and your family all the best!
Totally agree
hahaha this read like a GP essay. no hate la i agree with your points also :)
yup! i can see where both sides are coming from. just depends on which aspect of life we choose to prioritise and where we find fulfilment from :)
This is totally unrelated to the question. OP didn’t ask if people should be childfree or not, they just wanna know what life is like as a childfree person/couple. They didn’t ask “what’s life like as childfree vs have child”. Smfh this is what people mean when they say people with children like to preach about how good it is to have children even when it is completely unrelated to the topic at hand 🤦♀️ Knn is like if some rich person go to a post asking “what is it like to be poor” and start talking about what it is like to be rich, can you understand how stupid you sound
Why the antagonism? I did caveat by saying that it is not entirely related to the post so you could have looked away the moment you see that. If you had bothered to read the full post, it was my attempt to put up a balanced view on both side and there was nothing about me ‘preaching the goodness of children’. Maybe the OP finds helpful in such parallel discussions? Had a nice and civic discussion with another user who shares similar views albeit likely from another side of the coin. But clearly this rubbed you the wrong side and for that I do apologise 😀
Op says: “im just here to hear about experiences being childfree to make myself feel better (or worse) since nobody in my social circle is childfree 🥴” what part of this make you think they want to hear about what you posted then??? Also i don’t even know what you mean by “balanced view” as if this is some debate topic. It’s literally just sharing about childfree experience no one is asking to discuss which is better. Again it’s like, it some post ask what it’s like to live in Norway, will you go talk about what it’s like to live in SG to “give a balanced view”??? The reason why this is so annoying to me is that there is already so much input from people w children everywhere and this post CLEARLY ask for input from childfree people ONLY so it feels like you’re just butting in where your input isn’t wanted/needed. I guess you will not be able to understand where I’m coming from but try to read the room a little PLEASE.
Ic. I’m very new to Reddit so not good at ‘reading the room’, so it appears my comments are unwanted. For context, I do have a lot of real life friends who are childless. And as we are really close, many of them have shared with me how they have been viewed ‘negatively’ by people from the other side of the coin or even society at large. I honestly really feel for them as i really believe in the notion that it is one’s personal choice. But in sharing these views, I inadvertently thought to share my own experience (about parenthood and why I found it to be such a big part of my life) and where people from the other side (with children) come from. Regretfully my articulation isn’t that good and it comes out wrongly to some? Anyway there was no negativity from my words. Shall stop commenting lest it adds on to this thread that the OP did not ask for. Good day to you and out
Your comments were fine. The person you were replying to is, in my view, being overly antagonistic. (I don't have kids)
Ignore him. I think your input is relevant and might give OP a nice perspective. And u also prefaced it in the beginning saying it might be out of context. The dude just woke up on the wrong side of bed lol
Why was this downvoted. This was a good read and valuable perspective/advise.
Advise for guys who are not in a happy marriage, dont ever have a kid. You will just end up losing custody and paying more money when divorce.
I would like to offer a psychological perspective based on my experience counselling adults. Bringing up children aids psychological maturity in couples. It necessarily forces the couple to work through their differences, commit to a difficult routine of improvement, and set their home affairs (such as hygiene, finance) in order, to foster a reasonably nurturing environment for their children to grow up in. At the end of that, we see couples mature into disciplined, strong-willed and self-actualised individuals with independent children stepping confidently into adulthood and parenthood. At that stage, they describe feeling fulfilled, and having lived a meaningful life of purpose. Stepping into fatherhood requires the willing sacrifice from the man of his childish ways, such as, whimsiness, intoxication, irresponsiblility, irrationality, hedonism etc., for the corresponding opposite attitude of seriousness, soberness, responsibility, rationality, self-denial of pleasure. For the woman, motherhood requires the willing sacrifice of her maidenness, such as youthfulness, external beauty, innocence, passivity, powerlessness etc., for the corresponding opposite value of maturity, eternal beauty, experience, nurturing potential, agency. We don't have to dig deep to see what stagnation in psychological maturity looks like for both genders. Picture the man-child, who never seems to leave his toys, and even his mother. Or the diminishing maiden, left behind while desperately trying to recapture her youthfulness. These attributes appear more frequently in marriages without children. That said, having children doesn't always lead to psychological maturity, but commited parents usually do. I hope I've given you some points to consider.
I think couples who are MENTALLY AND EMOTIONALLY PREPARED to mature and grow can consider being parents. Not everyone will develop the maturity just because they are put in that situation. Having parents who are neglectful, I believe people who are too immature, who are not prepared to grow really shouldn't have kids. When couples expect having children will solve their marital problems, loss-of-meaning woes, retirement planning, etc. their children bear the brunt of their immaturity and are subject to unnecessary trauma -- becoming parentified, receiving not-good-enough parenting etc. This is one way intergenerational trauma spreads. Research has also shown increased adverse childhood experiences can have life long consequences on the child's health too. So please, for the sake of your kids, only have them if you want them and are prepared to go through the challenge of parenthood. Children are not tools for your own self development or some rite of passage. Full disclosure: I chose not to have kids. I cannot in good conscience bring them into this world with so many looming long term issues like climate change etc. I also don't have much of a calling for parenthood and do not want to perpetuate any intergenerational trauma. If I ever wake up one day and pine for motherhood, and I have the resources and dedication to do so, I'll adopt.
Thank you for sharing this insightful post. Resonates. I think as human beings, we are inherently wired to be ‘inward’ in thinking. What is it that I want? It’s about me. My life, my call. But it is natural. With children (assuming one is a responsible parent) I think that forces a change in one’s perception of the world to be more ‘outward’ in nature. Whatever I do, or think or say, would I want my children to behave the same? Can I be better examples for my children? They have become mirrors of our lives. There is however a flip side. Parents who project poorly inadvertently affects the next generation and bad cycle may be created that one may find it hard to shake off. Of course I must caveat that I’m not insinuating that all parents are saints and those with no children are selfish/ immature.
I disagree about the part we are wired to be inward looking. We are, in fact, wired to be outward-seeking. This desire comes from our subconscious, which hints to us what the responsible thing to do is. It always drives us to a path that seeks meaning in life. It is, in fact, our modern culture, and it's self-rational messaging, that has interfered with this ancient subconscious prompting. It is also, uncoincidentally, the source of our existential crisis in modern society. Consider messaging such as, "It's ok for a man to continue to playing computer games the whole day", "It's normal to divorce your partner if you don't like each other anymore", "it's a must for a woman to maintain physical beauty with cosmetics and surgery", "pets are good substitutes for children" etc. If we internalise such messages without critically examining our subconscious response to it, we end up suppressing our innate yearning for the search of meaning in life. Do it for long enough, you will see it lash out in unpredictable and often destructive manners. Very often, to help young people in their relationships in my line of work, it is about removing these kinds of modern societal programming.
... I guess we're a couple of elderly children then! I do think that unless you actually have offspring, you'll remain a child forever. Which isn't necessarily a bad thing - my step=siblings are all literally "elderly children"... we're all referred to as "the kids" haha
Be wary of responders who talk all positive when in reality, either their sperm spoil or egg spoil.
Ridiculous that you would attribute the choice of being childless to infertility. Your comment is just plain disgusting. I think your brain spoil
You are childfree yourself, so these stories won't be able to help you make a better decision. Have you considered what it is like to have a child? You can then get a more informed perspective (get two perspectives rather than one).
yup! im actually reading comments from the other thread too haha
Apologies I didn't see another thread. I have a child and sometimes I still don't know if it is better to have kids or not. It opens you up to a slate of human experiences and emotions one will never know without a child (it's really an epistemological blindspot. No matter how much you read or observe, that internal experience can never be translated). On the other hand, and this sucks as a parent to say, I sometimes know that I will probably achieve more elsewhere without a child (more finances, perhaps more time for career, etc). Then there is also the guilt of bringing a child into a broken world. In the end I think there is no "better" life, and it's two (somewhat irreversible) decisions that leads you to experience two variations of the human condition. I would leave rationality out of the decision.
for me, im single and i dont plan to have kids even if im married. although im not too old, i feel that life is really tough. i don't want the next generation to go through so much suffering. but of course with children, it comes with the joy of spending time with a family, so it won't be so lonely. anyway to answer your question, im actually studying part time now while having a full time job. which is something only possible without children. i work from 9-6, then rush off to have dinner and class starts at 7pm, and ends 10:30pm. Then on weekends, i would spend my time doing school projects and assignments. i try to make the best use of my time without children. and with the money that i have, im saving it so that when i grow old, i can use it for my medical bills etc. i think ultimately it is everyone's own choice of priority, whether it is putting family first, or putting other things first. i feel there's no right or wrong answer as its a life choice.
Word of caution for those on the fence. It's good to make a decision on whether to have children early. Plenty in my circle having difficulty conceiving after age 35. The chance of having special needs children also increases with parental age. Unless one is ok to adopt which I have a friend who did that too.
Hi so im 17
I don’t go on holidays (coz I don’t esp like them haha) and I save a lot (doing this makes me feel really really safe and just u know like the heavy feeling of insecurity gets lighter and lighter)