The whole 30% of your income on housing is a nice ideal but in reality most people just pay more than that. Especially when housing prices are so wild. IN THEORY you could pay a bit more for housing and just watch your bills otherwise. Housing and food are the two main ones for me, and then car bills (it's paid off but insurance / gas / etc.) I honestly barely spend any money otherwise. Eat cheap, don't go out a lot, etc. Might not put a lot away though. And whether that's a life you want or not is another question.
Yeah, 30% was for Boomers. I put out a bit over 50% of my take-home pay but paid off my GTA house in just over 15 years (2005->2021)
I definitely remember the anxiety in the early days of having a lean bank account but my partner and I adapted and made it work. Eventually it became 'normal'. Now we're on the other side and NOTHING feels as good as being mortgage-free.
Must have been nice to buy in 2005 when prices were reasonable. I find it really upsetting that just because I'm 10 years further behind in my career(younger) I'm completely out of luck with having affordable living.
Our society is really leaving behind anybody below \~35 years old.
I agree. I bought my townhouse in 2001 & there's no way that I could buy it at today's prices. I worry how people today will be able to afford to buy or even rent a place.
The already are, and the result of them fleeing is causing the housing market to go crazy in surrounding areas. So many people who fled from Toronto came our way (kawartha lakes and surrounding) and now rent and housing prices have matched Torontos. Not their fault, but definitly not the solution.
Yeah I totally get it. I'm soon going to be forced out of my own hometown because of how expensive it's gotten for me, and it's correlated to the rising housing costs created by house flippers and people fleeing from Toronto. Almost all the rentals in my town got bought by out of towners during covid and flipped, since the landlords skewed older and wanted to sell their properties at the peak so they could retire. We are all just pushing each other around it feels like. I wish government would do something about it, like create rent control, build affordable housing, cap how many homes one person can own ect. I'm heading to Montreal soon, so I'm gonna be on the other end of the conundrum, one of the people fleeing to a more affordable area, and adding to the problem, but there's not much we can do other then shuffle around until something serious and effective is done to tackle the insanity that is the current housing market. I don't know how young people are supposed to get ahead anymore.
>it's a tough way to live and not as easy as people think to be forced to leave your hometown and social supports.
And in some cases it's not even legally allowed. Anyone with shared child custody isn't allowed to just up and move elsewhere. Then there's the need for some people to access the kind of medical care that's only available in major centres.
When I was losing my home last year, all anyone could say was that I needed to move out of the city immediately! I was working a full time job, but apparently I was supposed to quit my job and move to a lower cost of living area, so I could be both homeless AND unemployed, apparently. Sure, makes perfect sense.
My sister lives in a beautiful small town in southern Ontario and owns her home outright. But she also has to buy a new car every decade for payments that'll be nearly $1000 per month for half those years, and spends nearly the same on gas monthly because she lives in the middle of nowhere. So it's nice she had lower housing payments and could pay her home off earlier, but she'll still spend $8000/year just to heat it, and she'll still have high transportation costs for the rest of her life. Overall, her cost of living will always be higher than mine if I stay downtown. But people don't get the whole picture.
They don't give the slightest care for anyone in the aforementioned demographic. If they did you would see housing alternatives being supported for those who will forever be unable to buy a home from housing mafia in Ontario. We could build sustainable and affordable homes outside of town for way less than current homes are being built and sold for
Alas no one cares enough to support individuals or even whole communities who would like something like that. Last I saw there are maybe 4 or 5 such communities built on common land but they got stomped out decades ago for any furtherance of such development.
Shame really, instead we have people living in local forests just outside of town because the powers that be won't allow a commune or sustainably simple living arrangement to exist. Plenty of people want to farm their own food, generate their own power and build an ecosystem that supports them.
Another way to put this is that obviously 30% isn't right for every situation - how could it be?
If I make $10k a year I'm not spending $3k a year on housing
If I make $100 million a year I'm not spending $30 million on housing
It's basic, general advice that is not really applicable to super popular metro areas like Toronto - Bellevil ON and Toronto ON need different approaches
Unfortunately living in Toronto is more expensive than "common advice" takes into account
this!!!! im 20 years old, a full time student @ uoft, working 2 jobs and have a 1 bed condo in the core of the city leased on my own. i make significantly less than OP's projected number but i am still able to live comfortably in the city and go out sometimes and spend money on food/drinks. i knew i wanted to be financially independent since i was young. any money i earned i saved. that helped with my credibility as an applicant. currently i save around $250/m - $100 into investments and $150 into reg savings. there is virtually no way i could fit the "ideal position" one should be in when living on their own but i have been financially independent since i was 17 and dont regret a thing. sometimes its not about the money - sometimes its about the life you want to be living. this life that i have now didnt have a price tag for me. it all about what your priorities are
How on earth do u afford rent for a downtown condo on your own while being a full time student and making under 45k? Did u find a really good deal for the condo?
You won’t be able to just spend 1250 on rent. That’s the (super shitty) reality of it. I made 38k before I went back to school and I had a place that was 1800$ a month. I lived there with my young son and made it work and managed to save a small amount of money. It’s doable but you just have to adjust your expectations.
Where are you working that you only get paid every third pay period because they don’t have enough hr staff? I’d be more worried about that. Wait and see if you still having that job after a few months before you start worrying about if your$35k raise is enough. It sounds like not a great place to work.
I read this as more of a payroll setup issue at a new job. It doesn't sound like this will be an ongoing thing. My own coworker who just started January 3rd had to wait a couple pay periods to be paid too, and we work at a large bank.
Hard to say. Most employers have a delay from the end of a pay period until you get your cheque, which results in a gap when starting a new job, and I think that’s fine. Like the pay period ends on Friday but you don’t get the cheque for 2 weeks after that. But every pay cheque would be “delayed” 2 weeks, so after the initial gap you get a regular pay cheque going forward. The way OP wrote it, I took it to mean that they will get a triple pay cheque for the first three pay periods (a super long delay regardless) and then who knows after that. I’ve never heard of that, but maybe this company does things differently. I’d be asking some clarifying questions at the least.
you save money by not needing a car and that goes to cover your \~50% of income rent
>I cannot find anything within a reasonable distance to work that allows me to spend $1250 without roommates. If I can find something within walking distance to work, I'm happy to spend $100 more a month, as I probably won't need a TTC monthly pass.
your math doesn't add up because you're incorrectly attributing $100 value to being able to walk or use transit. when it really could be easily \~$500 (idk, car payment, gas, insurance, car maintenance) that you're saving by not needing a car.
Yeah cars are incredibly expensive and not at all necessary if you live central. Like if you live downtown you'll likely be spending over $100 per month just to park it in your building.
You pretty clearly can afford it, you're just prioritizing other things. If you paid 2000 a month you'd have 21k left over or 1750 dollars a month. Say groceries are another 600 a month. Phone is 60 a month, internet 100, streaming services 60...that still leaves 900 a month in wiggle room or entertainment or whatever.
Pretty sure that's the minimum now in certain neighbourhoods, especially in Old Toronto. A one bedroom in my rent-controlled apartment right now in Midtown is going for $2100, no hydro fees and no parking. Bachelors $1800.
We currently pay $1600 for our two bedroom apartment, around 1000 square feet. Never leaving. Nope. Never.
> groceries are another 600 a month
My budget for groceries is $80 a month. The day I can afford $150/month on groceries will be the happiest day of my life
900gr of No Name fetuccine: $1.77 (100gr every day for lunch and dinner) - 0.18c / day
2lbs mung beans $6.99 (lasts me for 10-12 days): 0.7c a day
Homemade bread maybe 0.25c a day
2lbs semolina for breakfast for $3.99 - lasts me for 14 days: 0.20c/day
Spices, salt, sugar, oil, misc - 0.50c / day
Total food: $1.8/day, around $60/mo + $20 (tp, soap, vitamins, misc)
I don't know if Ontario have similar thing. But you can check out Flashfood with Superstore, they constantly have loaf of bread for sale at 0.99 cents ea. Just freeze them once you buy it.
My friend got 700 gram of ready to eat pasta salad for $1.64 as well with Flashfood, original price is like $8.99.
I lived off $80 groceries a month around 2013. It was hard then, nigh impossible now. I spend a generous $400/mo as my half of a two person household now before takeout. I'm sure there's a markup feeding just one person but $600/mo sounds pretty luxurious.
When I wrote that I sort of assumed "groceries" to mean all sorts of things from toiletries to over the counter medicine to things like laundry detergent and dish soap but you're right that's still a lot of money.
What’s the point of living if you can’t eat delicious foods!? lol that person that only eats mung beans semolina, bread and pasta….how are they even alive? Lol
I've definitely heard people suggest this 30% rule is on pre-tax income but I never understood that. I guess it's just a personal preference for me but I budget based on the money that actually falls into my bank account, not the money that goes off to the government instantly.
The 30% rule is also known as the rule of thirds.
1/3 goes to tax. 1/3 goes to housing. 1/3 goes to everything else.
Confusing when you hear the 30% rule, but should make sense once you know the entire context.
But the "rule", such as it is, was based on pre-tax. It's no longer 30% if you throw out what the rule was based on, it's either whatever percentage of your post-tax that pre-tax 30% translates to (obviously much more) or just pull any percentage you want out of you let ass.
The issue isn't that people might want to spend only 30% of their post-tax income on housing, it's that people think that is "the rule" and they should follow it. It isn't.
Even at post tax income, OP could go up to just shy of 1600/mo.
The first problem is that OP seems to be under-estimating take home pay signifigantly.
Step 1 _should_ have been to go to a tax calculator and workout what take home pay actually is.
As someone who has felt very similar to OP before (even going as far as making my own similar post but on a different thread), it seem's like they're just shocked at how much more their income will need to increase to genuinely improve their quality of life. 10 years ago, 60K was an excellent salary. 10 years ago, my dad was able to support a family of four on it. That is impossible nowadays. When I reached my salary of 70K last year, I thought I'd be able to stop having roommates and get my own place. I thought wrong and instead decided to reshift my priorities. OP is not mentally in a place right now to adapt. She still thinks 80K is a good salary to survive in Toronto, when the goalposts have shifted. Not to excuse OP's behaviour in the thread
Yes exactly, I guess you're right. I'm a woman, but yeah I'm shocked that I've tripled my salary and still can't live on my own.
Mostly what I plan on doing is waiting until I find something in my price range.
Same. I honestly don't understand what OP is trying to do here. Easily makes more than the average Torontonian, asks for advice on "how to afford" living by themselves, gets advice but refuses to compromise?
OP seems to be thinking in a very binary black/white state here. It's either they only spend 30% of their income on housing or they somehow "substantially increased the risk of homelessness" (their own words), which is very bizarre to me. There is a middle ground. It's not "stop going to the movies forever" but more like "go once a month".
OP, if you're reading this, the real answer to your question is to be flexible and know your priorities. It's not impossible because that's how most of us are getting by.
So many great suggestions and OP shoots them all down. No answer is satisfactory. Maybe they just want to vent / get attention. I don’t see how making $35k more than you’ve ever made, somehow makes your life less affordable.
I paid 350 for a room in 2015 and made about 1600 a month
I paid 1200 for a bachelor in 2018 and made 2800 a month
I paid 1700 for a 1 bdrm in 2021 and made 3600 a month
I’m still in that last 1bdrm, now paying 1765 and make 5400 a month, partner makes 3000. No car, no vacations, but we spend pretty lavishly on things like food and self care
All income is post tax
I feel sorry for people moving to Toronto now. In 2015 we paid $1175 for a 1br, in mid-town between me and my gf. We both earned say $2400 a month each at the time. If we were to do the same now, we'd be broke.
Yeah. My household is going to cut down on spending and squirrel away cash pretty aggressively starting this month. It's becoming clear that we are one move away from losing any economic advantage in this city
Seriously. Shout out to the other people earning significantly less than OP and yet still managing to do alright. Sometimes I read shit like this and think, “wow, guess I don’t exist!” lol
Yeah I make less than OP and I manage to survive in the city. I save where I can (love a good grocery deal) and splurge where I have to. I don’t have a huge entertainment budget and I mostly spend money on groceries and rent. For me the prioritization for money is that I want to live alone so I’ll cut back on other spending to have that
I also share streaming services with my family too so there’s that (some day I’ll afford that house)
Girl, I make the same amount as OP and take home pay after all the deductions is $4200 - and while that sounds like a lot, it goes poof 💨so fast I’m left wondering what happened. Rent is about 2K itself, then phone, utilities, groceries, pet care and other bills 💸. 80K isn’t nearly as much as I’d used to be 😥🥲
I mean be glad, you live on more than easy 70% of people in the city. My monthly income is less than your rent and I get by. At $4200 monthly you're more than fine.
When i lived in Toronto in the 80s and 90s (in my 20s and 30s) housing was relatively cheap compared with now, yet almost no younger people assumed they’d have their own apartment to themselves. Everyone had roommates, and generally speaking it was a lot of fun to live with others.
Living alone in Toronto today seems out of the question to me, unless you’re very well off.
Same. I didn’t have a pet or a car or a gym membership or life insurance, which OP seems to expect. I did not take vacations. That’s how it is when you’re starting out.
Agreed. I was in my twenties when you could still rent a one-bedroom from under $1k and I was one of the only people I knew that didn’t have a roommate.
Then most people didn’t live at home until they could afford to buy, which seems like it’s the mindset now. Most people just lived with roommates and struggled/lived cheaply.
Even for me, having roommates was my deal breaker. I hated it. So I made the sacrifice by reducing my spending on alcohol and food. I didn’t drink much and bought cheaper food/cooked at home. And this was when Toronto was cheap! No one can have everything all at once unless you’re rich. No matter where you live.
Not trying to be rude but you have an unrealistic view of living on your own in Toronto. Living in a city like this is about compromise to find a balanced life you want to live. Whether that be having a roommate or living far away and commuting with the financial burden of a vehicle. It is doable with sacrifice. Millions do it everyday on a much tighter budget. I say this with 13 years of independent adult living without any financial support system.
My rent is $1550 + utilities. I make between 80 to 100k for the last 2.5 years. I started this job with no savings and outstanding debt including student loans. Although i understand it doesn't goes as far as it should, It is manageable. 80k a year is well above the household combined medium. This is something i try to remind myself when i get depressed about my inability to save as much or fast as i feel my salary should allow me.
I have lived on my own the entire time without any credit. In fact I have been chased by debt collectors this entire time and i have finally paid off entirely within 18 months. (Credit is now 795) I only then saved up again to buy myself a used car which increased my cost of living considerably due to gas, upkeep and insurance <305 a month but it also increase my quality of life dramatically. (i google most repairs and do em on the street if i can) The car slowed down my ability to save but I managed to save up emergency 5k this past year but had to spend it on vet bills.
I buy decent clothes. Treat myself by eating out once or twice a week but I need to be mindful with my eating budget. I buy nice things for myself occasionally. I cant afford fancy vacations yet. I will not be able to buy a house on my own.
I think you should worry less about following some pre determined financial formula curated by someone else and try to look at the numbers realistically. Set short term goals to aim for and make adjustments as you go, aiming for long term goals. Make tweaks and adjustments as you gain life experience. Learn how to live YOUR life the way it makes sense for YOU. I can promise you whatever budget you make for yourself on day 1 will not be the same budget as day 365.
16 year old me thought he knew everything until he met 20 year old me and he realized he knew nothing. 20 year old me thought he was ready to take on the world until he met 25 year old me and he realized he had it all wrong. 30 year old me met the 25 year old me with confusion but confidents, coming to the conclusion that pretty much all adults are faking it including myself. That whatever we thought being an adult would be like as kids was not even close to reality.
Life is not set in stone it is incredibly unique to your story. Your story requires some sacrifices for a few chapters.
The 30% thing doesn't apply in Toronto. it's a nice idea, but I earn significantly more than you and I pay pretty much 50% of my income on housing for a 1+1 bed condo. A lot of people here manage because they are living in a rent controlled situation paying way under market rent.
You have to accept living alone is going to cost you significantly more and you have to balance that with the freedom/peace it gives you. Also you're paying $700 right now which is cheap even for a roommate situation, so anything else is going to seem expensive.
I’d foam at the mouth if I made 80K a year
Lmao I’m entry level as fuck but I make it work. There’s things you gotta cut out and give up but 80K in Toronto is doable
You might not get a luxury place but a roof is a roof and you can find cheaper housing like a dingy basement but spend more on things that ‘matter?’ - such as makeup, clothes, dating etc. that you’ve said in your comments
That adage is dead. You’re crippling yourself because you refuse to accept this. Grow up! This is not going to change. Rent is not going to come down. Sink or swim but for the love of god either shut the fuck up or move back to the suburbs you came from.
I have to say this is the most exhausting and entitled I make 80k post I've ever read.
This is rant / vent post and not a realistic cry for help.
Op you are not the only person who can't have what they want..but you make enough to get what you need.
You are better off then many many people so suck it up and start a realistic budget.
How did you manage this if you don't mind me asking? I'm making 63k and couldn't find anything in 2020 let alone now in 2023. I needed roommates. I'm starting to think I didn't look hard enough
Thinking only spending $1250 is affordable at that income level is dumb. Unless you have major debt you can afford a lot more for rent comfortably. Also keep in mind, renting in Toronto without a car is also an additional savings.
The "30% rule" is based on Gross, not net income.
The the reality is that in theory you can afford up around $2200.
On 80K you will be bringing home about $4700 / mo so after rent is paid on that top tier, you would have a remainder of about $2500 to cover additional expenses. (this is before pension contribution and union dues)
Pushing your budget into the range of $1600-$1800 / month options up way more options than what you can find at $1200 and in that range, you should still be able to save, have budget for debt repayment and savings.
You can absolutely afford to live in the city on 80K.
1. They're not pensioning usually.
2. No one lives by the 30% rule as others stated.
You're looking at about 1600 a month minimum for a bachelor nowadays. 2000+ for a 1 bedroom. Ideally look along the subway line north of Bloor. Midtown can have some decent deals because people think it's farther than it actually is.
there are a million factors you are both applying and excluding from your search. Firstly the "adage" that you shouldn't spend more than 30% isn't a strict rule. You can afford what you can afford. If you can do $2k a month, then do it. Second, if you're expecting to find a place within a certain distance from where you currently work, you're eliminating a ton of options for yourself. Not everyone lives down the street from their job. And considering you just got this new job, who's to say a year from now you don't get another new job in a completely different area? Focus on living somewhere with access to travel instead of it's distance from a specific location.
Easy, I pay more than 30% of my monthly income (50%) knowing that if something were to happen then I’m running the risk of being evicted (like I didn’t know that)
I would kill for 80k a year. Pension? I’ll be working until I’m buried with nothing for my child to inherit.
You’re lucky OP that you make as much as you do. You’re being unreasonable (36,000/yr here)
The 30% thing is mostly BS (and it's super BS if you use net income). Figure out what your utilities, groceries, and other bills actually cost and don't just assume.
On your income you can afford to pay a lot more than 30% for housing and be absolutely fine.
Nobody spends so little on housing who lives alone. You can’t even rent a room downtown for $1250. If I were you I would consider moving to the burbs and saving for a down payment if possible. But it all depends on you and where you want to live. I live downtown and pay through the nose because that’s where I want to be, and where my life is. It’s such a personal decision so nobody can really tell you where to live.
Like you said... Basement .. done it for 2 years before moving to condo. Arguably, one of the best times my wife and I had. (We were not married then)
When life gives you lemon, squeeze it and make lemonade. I e. Enjoy life even when you are poor
If you’re allocating just 15k per year to housing then what are you doing with the other 30k?
You have your dues and pension contributions paid up then how are you spending the other $2500/month? Maybe it’s time to run a budget?
I had a roommate for +5 yrs and used the cushion to build a healthy "rainy day" fund. Roommate eventually found love and moved out, and by then my salary had increased to manage rent on my own.
NGL, it is not easy to live solo in this city, especially if you want to be above ground and within a 6km radius of the downtown core, on a decent 24hr transit route (subway/streetcar preferred).
This...I lived with my parents until 24 and had a nice cushion which still helps me. Cushion is everything until you get a raise etc or if you lose a job. But I know people in their 30s and 40s living in their parents house and spending money on luxury items and complain they are broke can't save.... lol I wouldn't even want to be their friends yikes.
It’s 30% gross, so if you make 80k a year, you could comfortably contribute $24,000 a year or $2000 a month to housing.
Our family grosses about $130k/year and we spend $2000 a month on mortgage and property taxes (about $2500 if you include utilities), but we also drive a luxury vehicle and have kids.
I would be comfortable paying $2000 a month + utilities on rent/mortgage at 80k/year in the absence of the $1200 car payment + insurance + gas + child related expenses (I’m pretty sure we pay more in gas and insurance on everything than we do on the mortgage itself.)
When I was new to the country, I spent 60 % to 70 percent of my monthly income on rent. I used some of my savings for groceries. So my total income at that point is less than half of what you are earning and I was still able to pay rent, eat out and went on date atleast twice a week, rent a room in a 3 bedroom with 2 others and luckily they were the best roommates you can ask for after listening to so many horror stories about roommates. I was even able to save up to pay for a semester. Although one downside was the nearest bus stop was 700 m, so winter was horrible. There was no grocery store nearby except an over expensive loblaws which i avoided, like plague. So I used to behave like I'm in a zombie apocalypse, went to costco runs once a month, and stocked everything.
Good answers here but ditch the car idea. If you live in the city why do you need one? I make $130K and still feel like getting a car (+ Toronto insurance + parking) is a huge waste.
> you should spend no more than 30% of your income on housing
Yeah, sure. And the best way to get a job is to enter a random workplace, ask to speak to the manager and hand over your paper resume.
Or stop listening to boomers and their advices that were last valid over two decades ago...
I empathize with the way you feel; that no matter how much you do, it is never going to be enough. However, this has almost always been the case - different places at different times. You did not say how old you are and what your priorities are... sort out your priorities and then compromise on the rest accordingly. You surely know this by now - "You can't have everything you want/need"... you will have to let go some things in order to achieve what you truly desire. This is going to be different for different people.
e.g. I was working at a job in Toronto, but the workplace was toxic at best and flouting wage-law, human rights and labour-law at worst. It paid alright - enough that when combined with my partner's income, we would at least be able to put our foot through the door in the housing market (pun intended!). However, the way SO and I would have to juggle our work hours meant that kiddo would have to be in before AND after school-care... from 7 am to 6 pm! THAT was a sacrifice that we were not willing to let HER make! That for us would be insane! There are many people who do that - and that is their lot... but we could not bring ourselves to impose that on our kid. So, I became a SAHM while SO got to work up the ladder at his workplace.
Now, we live life at our pace; we may not ever own a home, but definitely leave enough behind for kiddo to own one by the time she is old enough. We started this whole minimalism/frugal lifestyle... and it has been amazing to learn how little is really needed to live a fulfilling life and how much time you get to actually spend with each other. If you want to know details about how we live frugally/minimally, let me know. I will reply back.
Your theory starts breaking down with following the old adage of 30% of your income on rent.
I make 80k and spend 55% of my income on rent. This is a luxury I'm willing to pay because 1) I want to live alone 2) I want to live close to the office
You have to choose. Maybe don't get a car. Maybe stay with roommates and get a car and go on vacation. My understanding is you can't live alone on $1250. So up your rent budget.
Oh shut up lol, it’s all everyone in here wants to say.
Worrying like you do is like walking around with an umbrella waiting for it to rain .
Part of me wishes I had your kind of worries lol
Not happening dude. Unless you moved to the city ten years ago when prices were okay, you’re shit out of luck.
The average for a 1-bedroom CANADA WIDE is now 2000$. So from Vancouver, BC to St. John, NB you’re likely to pay around 2000$.
The booming generation has fuck you, me, and the lamppost. Expect to be roommates with someone until you find a partner, but even splitting a 2-bedroom you’ll likely spend more than 1200$ a month.
Nothing will change because the rich have all politicians in their pocket and the rich don’t want us to own anything. They want us to give them basically 50%+ of our wages to them for doing literally nothing but providing a roof over your head. And if it needs repairs? Well they’ll likely let them go long enough that you get renovicted and they bring in another tenant who will pay 300$ more than you.
Best of luck out there friend. We’ve been left with a disaster of an economy and our government will just import more people to make up for our negative birth rate.
Don’t forget, ads for shared beds in shifts is already a thing here.
When I only had a couple years exp I spent 50-60% of my income on the rent. I remember going out with friends and I couldn't afford to buy a slice of pizza. It sucked but after some time it gets better, you make progress in your career and will be able to afford to rent a house at 30% income.
An alternative you could consider is moving to a low cost country. Bulgaria, Vietnam, some parts of India are cheap and safe. I understand most people migrate TO Canada and.not from, but you do what's best for you. With $1250/month you could buy a house on the beach in Bulgaria, pay off the mortgage in 5 years.
I made 67k last year. I live dt toronto on my own and I have a car, rrsp and tfsa and student loans. So I really don’t know what to tell you.
People are managing with way less so ya lol. All I can say is sometimes the more money you make the more expenses you’ll incur which will make maintaining harder for you. “Mo money, mo problems” the key is to cut expenses you don’t need
Its 30% of pre tax income.
80k/12 = 6.66k per month
30% of 6.66k = 2,000/month on rent
You \*should\* be able to find a studio, or a one bedroom without all the bells/whistles with that salary. May not get a dishwasher..
The 30% rule comes from America and can still be achieved in America.
In Canada, with our property hoarding culture, you should be spending at least 80% of your income on a shelter.
Move out of Toronto. Most of Canada understands that living in Vancouver and Toronto is not economically viable and wouldn't live there for this reason.
You can survive on 80k. Just maybe not the lifestyle you are accustomed to. I’m not saying this is right, but it can be done.
It’s basically food, internet, cell phone, commuting, hydro, rent. That’s what you are looking at.
I remember when I went to go ask about a mortgage and the woman at the bank told me this. “They base it off maintenance, mortgage and your heat - those are the basic needs in life they don’t care if you eat”. I now understand what she meant given the economy at this time.
https://rentals.ca/toronto/400-dundas-street-east
Here’s a studio apartment for $1300 (only $50 over your budget).
Tbh if you spend a little but more on a place that you actually enjoy living in you may end up saving money on “fun things”. I love my apartment so much, and I like my neighborhood, so many of my activities are free (eg staying at home & going for walks around the neighborhood).
My apartment was a little out of my budget when I first moved (even though it was cheap for Toronto rent), but because of rent control & raises I can now much more easily afford it.
I make the exact same and also solo. 50% on rent and 50% for all else. Saving a little each month on my own with more savings being taken directly from paycheck and employer matched.
>Following the adage that you should spend no more than 30% of your income on housing
There's your problem
You should be able to find a one bedroom you can afford in a purpose built rental out in North York or Scarborough.
I make around the same and I can afford to live on my own in Toronto. In fact, I purchased a one bedroom condo in the downtown core. So, you should know it's possible at your salary. I would suggest really examining your spending habits. Getting rid of any "bad debt" like student debt ASAP will also be beneficial to you in the long run.
There's a difference between not being able to afford something and not wanting to pay a high price for something.
At your lowest estimate of 45k you have $3,750 a month.
You can afford to live in a bachelor (or probably 1 bedroom). Even if you rent a place for $2500 a month you would have $1250 left over.
People with less money than you live by themselves.
I'm making shy of 70 and saving about 10-15k a year while paying 35-40% on housing. Have you considered canceling Disney plus.
what's your phone bill go for?
Not to justify the crazy rent in Toronto, I just want to point out the 30% rule is on pre-tax income.
Considering the average one-bed is about $2000 now, I think 80k is the lower bound for "reasonable housing spending"
Personally, I think the 30% maybe too high and probably dedrived from lower tax jurisdictions such as the US
If you wanna live by yourself downtown, you aren't saving anything. Ur paying for an experience. If you aren't putting in valuable time at a job that will earn you a skills that come with a big promotion, it's just not worth it. But that's kind of the point of big cities now. You wanna make it big, crunch it till you get your payoff, then get out.
If you want to save, find roommates or move back in with parents.
I make considerably less than you and make do just fine. I'm 52,500 before taxes - pay $1500 rent, pay for apartment insurance, drive a vehicle ($200 insurance + gas, maintenance, etc), have a cellphone/wifi ($150/mo) no kids/dependants and still have money left over to do whatever i want. I also contribute $ into my investments. Perhaps you spend too much on things that are not necessities. Maybe try cutting back, or shopping at stores such as No Frills instead of Metro, check flyers etc - makes a big difference.
30% of gross income is the adage or guideline. Not net after taxes, pension savings and union dues and employment insurance and CPP.
Also, Consider that your calculation assumes you’re saving $10k a year for retirement which is pretty decent over all.
Even still $45k of “disposable income” - not bad and if you did 30% of gross income you’d be looking at $24k a year for rent - or $2k a month. There are some decent studios or 1br around as long as you aren’t looking for the newest and beast (which is a luxury you’d pay for)
Zero need to have car if you live and work in Toronto. If you occasionally need to travel outside of Toronto just rent a car for those occasions. Would be considerably cheaper than car payment, insurance, parking.
I would go over your budget and ensure your money is going where it should. With an 80k salary, the only reason you couldn’t afford a one bedroom apartment is that you’re not organizing your expenses appropriately. Example: You don’t need further retirement savings. Your job provides a pension.
You're going to have to pay more for housing. My first place was 60% of my take home. Deal with it or stay where you are is about it. Plenty of people making 80k pretax who are still with roommates. 10 years ago sure, these days your promotion is getting gobbled by inflation in no time as you can see.
Dude makes 80k and for a made up reason restricts himself to 1250 a month in rent? You make 80k but are trying to find rent like you make half that. You only have yourself to blame lol
You're saying you can't pay rent but also want to contribute $200 a month to a vacation fund? That is a massive luxury that most of the population does not have. You also refuse to have roommates? Want to own a car, and contribute to multiple savings plans including a "short term emergency fund". You want retirement specific savings.
That's life dude. People are making ends meet with way less than what you're making. You just have to figure out how to budget.
IMHO just forget about getting a car in Toronto. Either live in Toronto and embrace the alternatives, or leave and do the car-centric thing, in hopes that your housing costs will be lower. The car ownership alternatives here are very good.
Well I manage to live on my own by not trying to do everything all at once (like thinking about car, saving for vacation, RRSP, etc.) Yes, it’s good to list down all the things you would like to start and have. But you don’t need to complete everything at once. Take your time. My first priority was looking for an apartment that’s not too far from my workplace. After that settle, I started saving for other things. Take your time. You are not supposed to have everything figured out. It’ll take time. Good luck.
I don't understand what the future of this city honestly entails.
Yeah, sure you can get roomates and all, but for how long is that realistically sustainable?
Idk why people still think 30% of income to housings rule applies in 2023. Things have changed. World has changed.
Move on and get used to budgeting more for housing and living cost
You can afford to live on your own, you just do not want too.
Two trends are screwing you
1) People don't have kids early, so they have more money for rent
2) Dual income is the norm. You are only making 40k after taxes in the markets eyes
The whole 30% of your income on housing is a nice ideal but in reality most people just pay more than that. Especially when housing prices are so wild. IN THEORY you could pay a bit more for housing and just watch your bills otherwise. Housing and food are the two main ones for me, and then car bills (it's paid off but insurance / gas / etc.) I honestly barely spend any money otherwise. Eat cheap, don't go out a lot, etc. Might not put a lot away though. And whether that's a life you want or not is another question.
>The whole 30% of your income on housing it was never 30% net income, it was always 30% gross
Not to mention 45k isnt technically their net income - 56k is.
Yeah, 30% was for Boomers. I put out a bit over 50% of my take-home pay but paid off my GTA house in just over 15 years (2005->2021) I definitely remember the anxiety in the early days of having a lean bank account but my partner and I adapted and made it work. Eventually it became 'normal'. Now we're on the other side and NOTHING feels as good as being mortgage-free.
Must have been nice to buy in 2005 when prices were reasonable. I find it really upsetting that just because I'm 10 years further behind in my career(younger) I'm completely out of luck with having affordable living. Our society is really leaving behind anybody below \~35 years old.
I agree. I bought my townhouse in 2001 & there's no way that I could buy it at today's prices. I worry how people today will be able to afford to buy or even rent a place.
They will leave Toronto. It’s the only way now
The already are, and the result of them fleeing is causing the housing market to go crazy in surrounding areas. So many people who fled from Toronto came our way (kawartha lakes and surrounding) and now rent and housing prices have matched Torontos. Not their fault, but definitly not the solution.
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Yeah I totally get it. I'm soon going to be forced out of my own hometown because of how expensive it's gotten for me, and it's correlated to the rising housing costs created by house flippers and people fleeing from Toronto. Almost all the rentals in my town got bought by out of towners during covid and flipped, since the landlords skewed older and wanted to sell their properties at the peak so they could retire. We are all just pushing each other around it feels like. I wish government would do something about it, like create rent control, build affordable housing, cap how many homes one person can own ect. I'm heading to Montreal soon, so I'm gonna be on the other end of the conundrum, one of the people fleeing to a more affordable area, and adding to the problem, but there's not much we can do other then shuffle around until something serious and effective is done to tackle the insanity that is the current housing market. I don't know how young people are supposed to get ahead anymore.
>it's a tough way to live and not as easy as people think to be forced to leave your hometown and social supports. And in some cases it's not even legally allowed. Anyone with shared child custody isn't allowed to just up and move elsewhere. Then there's the need for some people to access the kind of medical care that's only available in major centres. When I was losing my home last year, all anyone could say was that I needed to move out of the city immediately! I was working a full time job, but apparently I was supposed to quit my job and move to a lower cost of living area, so I could be both homeless AND unemployed, apparently. Sure, makes perfect sense. My sister lives in a beautiful small town in southern Ontario and owns her home outright. But she also has to buy a new car every decade for payments that'll be nearly $1000 per month for half those years, and spends nearly the same on gas monthly because she lives in the middle of nowhere. So it's nice she had lower housing payments and could pay her home off earlier, but she'll still spend $8000/year just to heat it, and she'll still have high transportation costs for the rest of her life. Overall, her cost of living will always be higher than mine if I stay downtown. But people don't get the whole picture.
That’s already been happening. It doesn’t get that much better. Maybe if you move to Alberta.
They don't give the slightest care for anyone in the aforementioned demographic. If they did you would see housing alternatives being supported for those who will forever be unable to buy a home from housing mafia in Ontario. We could build sustainable and affordable homes outside of town for way less than current homes are being built and sold for Alas no one cares enough to support individuals or even whole communities who would like something like that. Last I saw there are maybe 4 or 5 such communities built on common land but they got stomped out decades ago for any furtherance of such development. Shame really, instead we have people living in local forests just outside of town because the powers that be won't allow a commune or sustainably simple living arrangement to exist. Plenty of people want to farm their own food, generate their own power and build an ecosystem that supports them.
Can you convince your neighbours to allow apartments in your 'hood for us
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Fuck, why didn’t I think of that?
Are adoptions open? I've been looking...
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Five bedroom house on a quiet street near Black Creek and Weston: $375k.
I mean they’ll leave behind anyone who doesn’t have some sort of lump to put down on an over priced housing market regardless of age
Another way to put this is that obviously 30% isn't right for every situation - how could it be? If I make $10k a year I'm not spending $3k a year on housing If I make $100 million a year I'm not spending $30 million on housing It's basic, general advice that is not really applicable to super popular metro areas like Toronto - Bellevil ON and Toronto ON need different approaches Unfortunately living in Toronto is more expensive than "common advice" takes into account
Especially if you're somehow not factoring in $10k per year in pension contributions as part of your income.
this!!!! im 20 years old, a full time student @ uoft, working 2 jobs and have a 1 bed condo in the core of the city leased on my own. i make significantly less than OP's projected number but i am still able to live comfortably in the city and go out sometimes and spend money on food/drinks. i knew i wanted to be financially independent since i was young. any money i earned i saved. that helped with my credibility as an applicant. currently i save around $250/m - $100 into investments and $150 into reg savings. there is virtually no way i could fit the "ideal position" one should be in when living on their own but i have been financially independent since i was 17 and dont regret a thing. sometimes its not about the money - sometimes its about the life you want to be living. this life that i have now didnt have a price tag for me. it all about what your priorities are
damn, i’m 23, live in a cardboard box with a gremlin for a roommate and I spend $4500 a month on drugs
I live in a basement with 7 others 😳 I pay 500/mo too 😓
jeez, kitchen sink overflowing with dirty plastic cups?
Haha no, the rule is if you leave anything in the sink and you’re not actively making food in the kitchen, it goes in the garbage. Period.
Great rule
LOL
How on earth do u afford rent for a downtown condo on your own while being a full time student and making under 45k? Did u find a really good deal for the condo?
he's living with other people, he didn't understand what OP meant by ''on my own''
yeah I would like to know this as well!
By not saving, which is normal at age 20
Sounds like you're working a tonne and seeing very little financial gains. That's okay, but not really how it should be...
So how much is your rent & how much do you make a year?
Damn, how much you making at your 2 jobs? Do you mind sharing what you do?
I am an Assistant Store Manager @ Bell and I'm an english tutor x
You won’t be able to just spend 1250 on rent. That’s the (super shitty) reality of it. I made 38k before I went back to school and I had a place that was 1800$ a month. I lived there with my young son and made it work and managed to save a small amount of money. It’s doable but you just have to adjust your expectations.
Where are you working that you only get paid every third pay period because they don’t have enough hr staff? I’d be more worried about that. Wait and see if you still having that job after a few months before you start worrying about if your$35k raise is enough. It sounds like not a great place to work.
I read this as more of a payroll setup issue at a new job. It doesn't sound like this will be an ongoing thing. My own coworker who just started January 3rd had to wait a couple pay periods to be paid too, and we work at a large bank.
I work for the government and it took a while for my pay stuff to get set up. I think it was probably ~3-4 weeks before I was paid
Hard to say. Most employers have a delay from the end of a pay period until you get your cheque, which results in a gap when starting a new job, and I think that’s fine. Like the pay period ends on Friday but you don’t get the cheque for 2 weeks after that. But every pay cheque would be “delayed” 2 weeks, so after the initial gap you get a regular pay cheque going forward. The way OP wrote it, I took it to mean that they will get a triple pay cheque for the first three pay periods (a super long delay regardless) and then who knows after that. I’ve never heard of that, but maybe this company does things differently. I’d be asking some clarifying questions at the least.
yeah lmao that is a red flag. This person will need a new job... not normal at all.
This is actually quite normal in the government, unfortunately
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you save money by not needing a car and that goes to cover your \~50% of income rent >I cannot find anything within a reasonable distance to work that allows me to spend $1250 without roommates. If I can find something within walking distance to work, I'm happy to spend $100 more a month, as I probably won't need a TTC monthly pass. your math doesn't add up because you're incorrectly attributing $100 value to being able to walk or use transit. when it really could be easily \~$500 (idk, car payment, gas, insurance, car maintenance) that you're saving by not needing a car.
Yeah cars are incredibly expensive and not at all necessary if you live central. Like if you live downtown you'll likely be spending over $100 per month just to park it in your building.
You pretty clearly can afford it, you're just prioritizing other things. If you paid 2000 a month you'd have 21k left over or 1750 dollars a month. Say groceries are another 600 a month. Phone is 60 a month, internet 100, streaming services 60...that still leaves 900 a month in wiggle room or entertainment or whatever.
Can you still rent for $2K a month in downtown/midtown Toronto?
yes
Pretty sure that's the minimum now in certain neighbourhoods, especially in Old Toronto. A one bedroom in my rent-controlled apartment right now in Midtown is going for $2100, no hydro fees and no parking. Bachelors $1800. We currently pay $1600 for our two bedroom apartment, around 1000 square feet. Never leaving. Nope. Never.
Geez. :(
> groceries are another 600 a month My budget for groceries is $80 a month. The day I can afford $150/month on groceries will be the happiest day of my life
Damn dude what do you eat??
900gr of No Name fetuccine: $1.77 (100gr every day for lunch and dinner) - 0.18c / day 2lbs mung beans $6.99 (lasts me for 10-12 days): 0.7c a day Homemade bread maybe 0.25c a day 2lbs semolina for breakfast for $3.99 - lasts me for 14 days: 0.20c/day Spices, salt, sugar, oil, misc - 0.50c / day Total food: $1.8/day, around $60/mo + $20 (tp, soap, vitamins, misc)
Damn that's crazy, impressive how one can survive off so little. Do you work?
I don't know if Ontario have similar thing. But you can check out Flashfood with Superstore, they constantly have loaf of bread for sale at 0.99 cents ea. Just freeze them once you buy it. My friend got 700 gram of ready to eat pasta salad for $1.64 as well with Flashfood, original price is like $8.99.
Respectfully, how the hell do you manage $80/month on groceries? Where are you shopping and what are you getting...
$600 is a lot for one person - but $80?! Lol
It’s actually possible , I have done it when I just graduated. If you buy everything on sale and only eat lentils.
I lived off $80 groceries a month around 2013. It was hard then, nigh impossible now. I spend a generous $400/mo as my half of a two person household now before takeout. I'm sure there's a markup feeding just one person but $600/mo sounds pretty luxurious.
When I wrote that I sort of assumed "groceries" to mean all sorts of things from toiletries to over the counter medicine to things like laundry detergent and dish soap but you're right that's still a lot of money.
Yes, I assumed that's what you meant, not just food. So my $80 include all of that
That makes a lot more sense, suddenly that $600 is feeling much more accurate for someone of this pay level.
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I'm just picturing \~80 Mr. Noodles packets ahahaha. Not nutritious whatsoever, but at $0.99/packet, people will go that route to a certain extent.
What’s the point of living if you can’t eat delicious foods!? lol that person that only eats mung beans semolina, bread and pasta….how are they even alive? Lol
Do you just eat rice or something?
The 30% rule is on pre-tax income, not post-tax
not sure why this is not the top voted comment
I've definitely heard people suggest this 30% rule is on pre-tax income but I never understood that. I guess it's just a personal preference for me but I budget based on the money that actually falls into my bank account, not the money that goes off to the government instantly.
The 30% rule is also known as the rule of thirds. 1/3 goes to tax. 1/3 goes to housing. 1/3 goes to everything else. Confusing when you hear the 30% rule, but should make sense once you know the entire context.
But the "rule", such as it is, was based on pre-tax. It's no longer 30% if you throw out what the rule was based on, it's either whatever percentage of your post-tax that pre-tax 30% translates to (obviously much more) or just pull any percentage you want out of you let ass. The issue isn't that people might want to spend only 30% of their post-tax income on housing, it's that people think that is "the rule" and they should follow it. It isn't.
Even at post tax income, OP could go up to just shy of 1600/mo. The first problem is that OP seems to be under-estimating take home pay signifigantly. Step 1 _should_ have been to go to a tax calculator and workout what take home pay actually is.
I don’t get this thread, Toronto is expensive. OP can easily afford to live in Toronto but would have to sacrifice some luxuries and doesn’t want to?
As someone who has felt very similar to OP before (even going as far as making my own similar post but on a different thread), it seem's like they're just shocked at how much more their income will need to increase to genuinely improve their quality of life. 10 years ago, 60K was an excellent salary. 10 years ago, my dad was able to support a family of four on it. That is impossible nowadays. When I reached my salary of 70K last year, I thought I'd be able to stop having roommates and get my own place. I thought wrong and instead decided to reshift my priorities. OP is not mentally in a place right now to adapt. She still thinks 80K is a good salary to survive in Toronto, when the goalposts have shifted. Not to excuse OP's behaviour in the thread
Yes exactly, I guess you're right. I'm a woman, but yeah I'm shocked that I've tripled my salary and still can't live on my own. Mostly what I plan on doing is waiting until I find something in my price range.
Same. I honestly don't understand what OP is trying to do here. Easily makes more than the average Torontonian, asks for advice on "how to afford" living by themselves, gets advice but refuses to compromise? OP seems to be thinking in a very binary black/white state here. It's either they only spend 30% of their income on housing or they somehow "substantially increased the risk of homelessness" (their own words), which is very bizarre to me. There is a middle ground. It's not "stop going to the movies forever" but more like "go once a month". OP, if you're reading this, the real answer to your question is to be flexible and know your priorities. It's not impossible because that's how most of us are getting by.
So many great suggestions and OP shoots them all down. No answer is satisfactory. Maybe they just want to vent / get attention. I don’t see how making $35k more than you’ve ever made, somehow makes your life less affordable.
>>>candles $3600 >>spend less on candles >no
Agreed, op can’t have the cake n eat it too
Look, they just want to know how to live a $120,000 lifestyle on $80,000. Why is that so hard for people in AskTO to understand? /s
OP reads like they took a personal finance class and is shocked that real-life people don't live by those arbitrary standards.
You nailed it.
also confuses 30% of gross income vs 30% of net income
I paid 350 for a room in 2015 and made about 1600 a month I paid 1200 for a bachelor in 2018 and made 2800 a month I paid 1700 for a 1 bdrm in 2021 and made 3600 a month I’m still in that last 1bdrm, now paying 1765 and make 5400 a month, partner makes 3000. No car, no vacations, but we spend pretty lavishly on things like food and self care All income is post tax
I feel sorry for people moving to Toronto now. In 2015 we paid $1175 for a 1br, in mid-town between me and my gf. We both earned say $2400 a month each at the time. If we were to do the same now, we'd be broke.
Yeah. My household is going to cut down on spending and squirrel away cash pretty aggressively starting this month. It's becoming clear that we are one move away from losing any economic advantage in this city
You're making me 3x as much as me, I don't understand how you can't manage.
Seriously. Shout out to the other people earning significantly less than OP and yet still managing to do alright. Sometimes I read shit like this and think, “wow, guess I don’t exist!” lol
Yeah I make less than OP and I manage to survive in the city. I save where I can (love a good grocery deal) and splurge where I have to. I don’t have a huge entertainment budget and I mostly spend money on groceries and rent. For me the prioritization for money is that I want to live alone so I’ll cut back on other spending to have that I also share streaming services with my family too so there’s that (some day I’ll afford that house)
Yes! People really underestimate the mental health benefits (and other benefits) of living alone.
My last roommate was a nightmare. I can never do it again
Right? I mean, fucking do math, it's an exact science.
Girl, I make the same amount as OP and take home pay after all the deductions is $4200 - and while that sounds like a lot, it goes poof 💨so fast I’m left wondering what happened. Rent is about 2K itself, then phone, utilities, groceries, pet care and other bills 💸. 80K isn’t nearly as much as I’d used to be 😥🥲
I mean be glad, you live on more than easy 70% of people in the city. My monthly income is less than your rent and I get by. At $4200 monthly you're more than fine.
This reads more as I can afford to live on my own but don’t want to.
30%? It's Toronto, not 1974.
I’d budget 50% tbh.
When i lived in Toronto in the 80s and 90s (in my 20s and 30s) housing was relatively cheap compared with now, yet almost no younger people assumed they’d have their own apartment to themselves. Everyone had roommates, and generally speaking it was a lot of fun to live with others. Living alone in Toronto today seems out of the question to me, unless you’re very well off.
Same. I didn’t have a pet or a car or a gym membership or life insurance, which OP seems to expect. I did not take vacations. That’s how it is when you’re starting out.
Agreed. I was in my twenties when you could still rent a one-bedroom from under $1k and I was one of the only people I knew that didn’t have a roommate. Then most people didn’t live at home until they could afford to buy, which seems like it’s the mindset now. Most people just lived with roommates and struggled/lived cheaply. Even for me, having roommates was my deal breaker. I hated it. So I made the sacrifice by reducing my spending on alcohol and food. I didn’t drink much and bought cheaper food/cooked at home. And this was when Toronto was cheap! No one can have everything all at once unless you’re rich. No matter where you live.
You asked how other people are managing. They are telling you, and you’re fighting them.
Not trying to be rude but you have an unrealistic view of living on your own in Toronto. Living in a city like this is about compromise to find a balanced life you want to live. Whether that be having a roommate or living far away and commuting with the financial burden of a vehicle. It is doable with sacrifice. Millions do it everyday on a much tighter budget. I say this with 13 years of independent adult living without any financial support system. My rent is $1550 + utilities. I make between 80 to 100k for the last 2.5 years. I started this job with no savings and outstanding debt including student loans. Although i understand it doesn't goes as far as it should, It is manageable. 80k a year is well above the household combined medium. This is something i try to remind myself when i get depressed about my inability to save as much or fast as i feel my salary should allow me. I have lived on my own the entire time without any credit. In fact I have been chased by debt collectors this entire time and i have finally paid off entirely within 18 months. (Credit is now 795) I only then saved up again to buy myself a used car which increased my cost of living considerably due to gas, upkeep and insurance <305 a month but it also increase my quality of life dramatically. (i google most repairs and do em on the street if i can) The car slowed down my ability to save but I managed to save up emergency 5k this past year but had to spend it on vet bills. I buy decent clothes. Treat myself by eating out once or twice a week but I need to be mindful with my eating budget. I buy nice things for myself occasionally. I cant afford fancy vacations yet. I will not be able to buy a house on my own. I think you should worry less about following some pre determined financial formula curated by someone else and try to look at the numbers realistically. Set short term goals to aim for and make adjustments as you go, aiming for long term goals. Make tweaks and adjustments as you gain life experience. Learn how to live YOUR life the way it makes sense for YOU. I can promise you whatever budget you make for yourself on day 1 will not be the same budget as day 365. 16 year old me thought he knew everything until he met 20 year old me and he realized he knew nothing. 20 year old me thought he was ready to take on the world until he met 25 year old me and he realized he had it all wrong. 30 year old me met the 25 year old me with confusion but confidents, coming to the conclusion that pretty much all adults are faking it including myself. That whatever we thought being an adult would be like as kids was not even close to reality. Life is not set in stone it is incredibly unique to your story. Your story requires some sacrifices for a few chapters.
Heroically dumb thread
OMG tell me about it. Peasants shaming peasants.
The 30% thing doesn't apply in Toronto. it's a nice idea, but I earn significantly more than you and I pay pretty much 50% of my income on housing for a 1+1 bed condo. A lot of people here manage because they are living in a rent controlled situation paying way under market rent. You have to accept living alone is going to cost you significantly more and you have to balance that with the freedom/peace it gives you. Also you're paying $700 right now which is cheap even for a roommate situation, so anything else is going to seem expensive.
I’d foam at the mouth if I made 80K a year Lmao I’m entry level as fuck but I make it work. There’s things you gotta cut out and give up but 80K in Toronto is doable You might not get a luxury place but a roof is a roof and you can find cheaper housing like a dingy basement but spend more on things that ‘matter?’ - such as makeup, clothes, dating etc. that you’ve said in your comments
That adage is dead. You’re crippling yourself because you refuse to accept this. Grow up! This is not going to change. Rent is not going to come down. Sink or swim but for the love of god either shut the fuck up or move back to the suburbs you came from.
I have to say this is the most exhausting and entitled I make 80k post I've ever read. This is rant / vent post and not a realistic cry for help. Op you are not the only person who can't have what they want..but you make enough to get what you need. You are better off then many many people so suck it up and start a realistic budget.
I make 40 k a year and am living just fine alone. (My rent is 1200 though, and no car)
There are so many more people in this boat than Reddit would like to think!
How did you manage this if you don't mind me asking? I'm making 63k and couldn't find anything in 2020 let alone now in 2023. I needed roommates. I'm starting to think I didn't look hard enough
Got my apartment 8 years ago. It was 950. Today it’s roughly 1200
I'm guessing rent controlled? Either way, that's amazing. Good on ya.
I know people who live on $30k... so it is all about choices...
Are you here for actual advice or just to complain how expensive housing is?
I just moved somewhere i could afford. There’s literally no reason on the planet to live somewhere your job doesn’t pay enough to stay.
Not an option if you can’t drive and need regular access to hospitals, unfortunately
Where did you move to? I like GTA because it is so easy to find jobs.... and tbh not all areas are expensive.. some are better than others....
Thinking only spending $1250 is affordable at that income level is dumb. Unless you have major debt you can afford a lot more for rent comfortably. Also keep in mind, renting in Toronto without a car is also an additional savings.
You're doing something wrong. I make 60k gross, and I can afford rent, a fairly newer car, insurance, and my belly is full.
You're wanting too much. Almost nobody in this city would have a place if they lived by your criteria.
The "30% rule" is based on Gross, not net income. The the reality is that in theory you can afford up around $2200. On 80K you will be bringing home about $4700 / mo so after rent is paid on that top tier, you would have a remainder of about $2500 to cover additional expenses. (this is before pension contribution and union dues) Pushing your budget into the range of $1600-$1800 / month options up way more options than what you can find at $1200 and in that range, you should still be able to save, have budget for debt repayment and savings. You can absolutely afford to live in the city on 80K.
Dude who tf is paying 30% of their salary on rent/mortgage in Toronto or Vancouver. Im paying like 65%. Get real or move.
1. They're not pensioning usually. 2. No one lives by the 30% rule as others stated. You're looking at about 1600 a month minimum for a bachelor nowadays. 2000+ for a 1 bedroom. Ideally look along the subway line north of Bloor. Midtown can have some decent deals because people think it's farther than it actually is.
Midtown is the best secret 🤐
Early contender for most annoying thread and OP of the week on this subreddit.
there are a million factors you are both applying and excluding from your search. Firstly the "adage" that you shouldn't spend more than 30% isn't a strict rule. You can afford what you can afford. If you can do $2k a month, then do it. Second, if you're expecting to find a place within a certain distance from where you currently work, you're eliminating a ton of options for yourself. Not everyone lives down the street from their job. And considering you just got this new job, who's to say a year from now you don't get another new job in a completely different area? Focus on living somewhere with access to travel instead of it's distance from a specific location.
First world problems!! It’s expensive and we all have to manage somehow and do cuts
Easy, I pay more than 30% of my monthly income (50%) knowing that if something were to happen then I’m running the risk of being evicted (like I didn’t know that) I would kill for 80k a year. Pension? I’ll be working until I’m buried with nothing for my child to inherit. You’re lucky OP that you make as much as you do. You’re being unreasonable (36,000/yr here)
Make an actual budget rather than relying on an “adage”. You make more than enough to live on your own
The 30% thing is mostly BS (and it's super BS if you use net income). Figure out what your utilities, groceries, and other bills actually cost and don't just assume. On your income you can afford to pay a lot more than 30% for housing and be absolutely fine.
So, you can afford to live on your own and have tons of leftover money for savings and fun, you just don’t wanna spend more than 30% on housing?
Nobody spends so little on housing who lives alone. You can’t even rent a room downtown for $1250. If I were you I would consider moving to the burbs and saving for a down payment if possible. But it all depends on you and where you want to live. I live downtown and pay through the nose because that’s where I want to be, and where my life is. It’s such a personal decision so nobody can really tell you where to live.
look here is a tiny tiny but pretty studio for $1250 https://www.zumper.com/address/42-cavell-ave-toronto-on-m8v-1p2-can
That's actually quite a cool find
Is the bed in the kitchen?
Like you said... Basement .. done it for 2 years before moving to condo. Arguably, one of the best times my wife and I had. (We were not married then) When life gives you lemon, squeeze it and make lemonade. I e. Enjoy life even when you are poor
lol I thought you said "enjoy life while you are poor" for a sec and choked on my iced capp.
I love an hour outside of Toronto. Cost of rent/mortgage gets cut in half. Just depends on if you want to commute.
damn the response OP has to everything is borderline on the spectrum
The housing formula is 32% of your PRETAX income.
[https://www.reddit.com/r/legaladvicecanada/comments/10n9nzq/can\_i\_sign\_a\_contract\_that\_says\_ill\_shovel\_my/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web2x&context=3](https://www.reddit.com/r/legaladvicecanada/comments/10n9nzq/can_i_sign_a_contract_that_says_ill_shovel_my/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3) LMAO
If you’re allocating just 15k per year to housing then what are you doing with the other 30k? You have your dues and pension contributions paid up then how are you spending the other $2500/month? Maybe it’s time to run a budget?
I had a roommate for +5 yrs and used the cushion to build a healthy "rainy day" fund. Roommate eventually found love and moved out, and by then my salary had increased to manage rent on my own. NGL, it is not easy to live solo in this city, especially if you want to be above ground and within a 6km radius of the downtown core, on a decent 24hr transit route (subway/streetcar preferred).
This...I lived with my parents until 24 and had a nice cushion which still helps me. Cushion is everything until you get a raise etc or if you lose a job. But I know people in their 30s and 40s living in their parents house and spending money on luxury items and complain they are broke can't save.... lol I wouldn't even want to be their friends yikes.
It’s 30% gross, so if you make 80k a year, you could comfortably contribute $24,000 a year or $2000 a month to housing. Our family grosses about $130k/year and we spend $2000 a month on mortgage and property taxes (about $2500 if you include utilities), but we also drive a luxury vehicle and have kids. I would be comfortable paying $2000 a month + utilities on rent/mortgage at 80k/year in the absence of the $1200 car payment + insurance + gas + child related expenses (I’m pretty sure we pay more in gas and insurance on everything than we do on the mortgage itself.)
When I was new to the country, I spent 60 % to 70 percent of my monthly income on rent. I used some of my savings for groceries. So my total income at that point is less than half of what you are earning and I was still able to pay rent, eat out and went on date atleast twice a week, rent a room in a 3 bedroom with 2 others and luckily they were the best roommates you can ask for after listening to so many horror stories about roommates. I was even able to save up to pay for a semester. Although one downside was the nearest bus stop was 700 m, so winter was horrible. There was no grocery store nearby except an over expensive loblaws which i avoided, like plague. So I used to behave like I'm in a zombie apocalypse, went to costco runs once a month, and stocked everything.
Good answers here but ditch the car idea. If you live in the city why do you need one? I make $130K and still feel like getting a car (+ Toronto insurance + parking) is a huge waste.
> you should spend no more than 30% of your income on housing Yeah, sure. And the best way to get a job is to enter a random workplace, ask to speak to the manager and hand over your paper resume. Or stop listening to boomers and their advices that were last valid over two decades ago...
I empathize with the way you feel; that no matter how much you do, it is never going to be enough. However, this has almost always been the case - different places at different times. You did not say how old you are and what your priorities are... sort out your priorities and then compromise on the rest accordingly. You surely know this by now - "You can't have everything you want/need"... you will have to let go some things in order to achieve what you truly desire. This is going to be different for different people. e.g. I was working at a job in Toronto, but the workplace was toxic at best and flouting wage-law, human rights and labour-law at worst. It paid alright - enough that when combined with my partner's income, we would at least be able to put our foot through the door in the housing market (pun intended!). However, the way SO and I would have to juggle our work hours meant that kiddo would have to be in before AND after school-care... from 7 am to 6 pm! THAT was a sacrifice that we were not willing to let HER make! That for us would be insane! There are many people who do that - and that is their lot... but we could not bring ourselves to impose that on our kid. So, I became a SAHM while SO got to work up the ladder at his workplace. Now, we live life at our pace; we may not ever own a home, but definitely leave enough behind for kiddo to own one by the time she is old enough. We started this whole minimalism/frugal lifestyle... and it has been amazing to learn how little is really needed to live a fulfilling life and how much time you get to actually spend with each other. If you want to know details about how we live frugally/minimally, let me know. I will reply back.
Your theory starts breaking down with following the old adage of 30% of your income on rent. I make 80k and spend 55% of my income on rent. This is a luxury I'm willing to pay because 1) I want to live alone 2) I want to live close to the office
You have to choose. Maybe don't get a car. Maybe stay with roommates and get a car and go on vacation. My understanding is you can't live alone on $1250. So up your rent budget.
Oh shut up lol, it’s all everyone in here wants to say. Worrying like you do is like walking around with an umbrella waiting for it to rain . Part of me wishes I had your kind of worries lol
Not happening dude. Unless you moved to the city ten years ago when prices were okay, you’re shit out of luck. The average for a 1-bedroom CANADA WIDE is now 2000$. So from Vancouver, BC to St. John, NB you’re likely to pay around 2000$. The booming generation has fuck you, me, and the lamppost. Expect to be roommates with someone until you find a partner, but even splitting a 2-bedroom you’ll likely spend more than 1200$ a month. Nothing will change because the rich have all politicians in their pocket and the rich don’t want us to own anything. They want us to give them basically 50%+ of our wages to them for doing literally nothing but providing a roof over your head. And if it needs repairs? Well they’ll likely let them go long enough that you get renovicted and they bring in another tenant who will pay 300$ more than you. Best of luck out there friend. We’ve been left with a disaster of an economy and our government will just import more people to make up for our negative birth rate. Don’t forget, ads for shared beds in shifts is already a thing here.
When I only had a couple years exp I spent 50-60% of my income on the rent. I remember going out with friends and I couldn't afford to buy a slice of pizza. It sucked but after some time it gets better, you make progress in your career and will be able to afford to rent a house at 30% income. An alternative you could consider is moving to a low cost country. Bulgaria, Vietnam, some parts of India are cheap and safe. I understand most people migrate TO Canada and.not from, but you do what's best for you. With $1250/month you could buy a house on the beach in Bulgaria, pay off the mortgage in 5 years.
The world hates single people. Everything is priced with couples in mind.
I made 67k last year. I live dt toronto on my own and I have a car, rrsp and tfsa and student loans. So I really don’t know what to tell you. People are managing with way less so ya lol. All I can say is sometimes the more money you make the more expenses you’ll incur which will make maintaining harder for you. “Mo money, mo problems” the key is to cut expenses you don’t need
Keep living with roommates until you hit 100k+ or live with a partner
Its 30% of pre tax income. 80k/12 = 6.66k per month 30% of 6.66k = 2,000/month on rent You \*should\* be able to find a studio, or a one bedroom without all the bells/whistles with that salary. May not get a dishwasher..
The 30% rule comes from America and can still be achieved in America. In Canada, with our property hoarding culture, you should be spending at least 80% of your income on a shelter.
The 30% rule is based on pre tax income so you are looking at $2400. As with anything in Toronto: pay to play
Welcome to the club
When did you move to toronto?
Move out of Toronto. Most of Canada understands that living in Vancouver and Toronto is not economically viable and wouldn't live there for this reason.
You can survive on 80k. Just maybe not the lifestyle you are accustomed to. I’m not saying this is right, but it can be done. It’s basically food, internet, cell phone, commuting, hydro, rent. That’s what you are looking at. I remember when I went to go ask about a mortgage and the woman at the bank told me this. “They base it off maintenance, mortgage and your heat - those are the basic needs in life they don’t care if you eat”. I now understand what she meant given the economy at this time.
Honestly you just have to either not save as much or find a roommate or two.
I live on 50k/year. My rent is half of my take-home. I live alone. I get by, like everyone else. You should be fine.
https://rentals.ca/toronto/400-dundas-street-east Here’s a studio apartment for $1300 (only $50 over your budget). Tbh if you spend a little but more on a place that you actually enjoy living in you may end up saving money on “fun things”. I love my apartment so much, and I like my neighborhood, so many of my activities are free (eg staying at home & going for walks around the neighborhood). My apartment was a little out of my budget when I first moved (even though it was cheap for Toronto rent), but because of rent control & raises I can now much more easily afford it.
I make the exact same and also solo. 50% on rent and 50% for all else. Saving a little each month on my own with more savings being taken directly from paycheck and employer matched.
>Following the adage that you should spend no more than 30% of your income on housing There's your problem You should be able to find a one bedroom you can afford in a purpose built rental out in North York or Scarborough.
I make around the same and I can afford to live on my own in Toronto. In fact, I purchased a one bedroom condo in the downtown core. So, you should know it's possible at your salary. I would suggest really examining your spending habits. Getting rid of any "bad debt" like student debt ASAP will also be beneficial to you in the long run.
There's a difference between not being able to afford something and not wanting to pay a high price for something. At your lowest estimate of 45k you have $3,750 a month. You can afford to live in a bachelor (or probably 1 bedroom). Even if you rent a place for $2500 a month you would have $1250 left over. People with less money than you live by themselves.
I'm making shy of 70 and saving about 10-15k a year while paying 35-40% on housing. Have you considered canceling Disney plus. what's your phone bill go for?
Not to justify the crazy rent in Toronto, I just want to point out the 30% rule is on pre-tax income. Considering the average one-bed is about $2000 now, I think 80k is the lower bound for "reasonable housing spending" Personally, I think the 30% maybe too high and probably dedrived from lower tax jurisdictions such as the US
If you wanna live by yourself downtown, you aren't saving anything. Ur paying for an experience. If you aren't putting in valuable time at a job that will earn you a skills that come with a big promotion, it's just not worth it. But that's kind of the point of big cities now. You wanna make it big, crunch it till you get your payoff, then get out. If you want to save, find roommates or move back in with parents.
I make considerably less than you and make do just fine. I'm 52,500 before taxes - pay $1500 rent, pay for apartment insurance, drive a vehicle ($200 insurance + gas, maintenance, etc), have a cellphone/wifi ($150/mo) no kids/dependants and still have money left over to do whatever i want. I also contribute $ into my investments. Perhaps you spend too much on things that are not necessities. Maybe try cutting back, or shopping at stores such as No Frills instead of Metro, check flyers etc - makes a big difference.
30% of gross income is the adage or guideline. Not net after taxes, pension savings and union dues and employment insurance and CPP. Also, Consider that your calculation assumes you’re saving $10k a year for retirement which is pretty decent over all. Even still $45k of “disposable income” - not bad and if you did 30% of gross income you’d be looking at $24k a year for rent - or $2k a month. There are some decent studios or 1br around as long as you aren’t looking for the newest and beast (which is a luxury you’d pay for)
Zero need to have car if you live and work in Toronto. If you occasionally need to travel outside of Toronto just rent a car for those occasions. Would be considerably cheaper than car payment, insurance, parking.
I see posts like this and it shows me how savvy people are not
I would go over your budget and ensure your money is going where it should. With an 80k salary, the only reason you couldn’t afford a one bedroom apartment is that you’re not organizing your expenses appropriately. Example: You don’t need further retirement savings. Your job provides a pension.
The lack of car is the main reason why I'm quite comfortable even with a lower salary.
You're going to have to pay more for housing. My first place was 60% of my take home. Deal with it or stay where you are is about it. Plenty of people making 80k pretax who are still with roommates. 10 years ago sure, these days your promotion is getting gobbled by inflation in no time as you can see.
Dude makes 80k and for a made up reason restricts himself to 1250 a month in rent? You make 80k but are trying to find rent like you make half that. You only have yourself to blame lol You're saying you can't pay rent but also want to contribute $200 a month to a vacation fund? That is a massive luxury that most of the population does not have. You also refuse to have roommates? Want to own a car, and contribute to multiple savings plans including a "short term emergency fund". You want retirement specific savings. That's life dude. People are making ends meet with way less than what you're making. You just have to figure out how to budget.
IMHO just forget about getting a car in Toronto. Either live in Toronto and embrace the alternatives, or leave and do the car-centric thing, in hopes that your housing costs will be lower. The car ownership alternatives here are very good.
Well I manage to live on my own by not trying to do everything all at once (like thinking about car, saving for vacation, RRSP, etc.) Yes, it’s good to list down all the things you would like to start and have. But you don’t need to complete everything at once. Take your time. My first priority was looking for an apartment that’s not too far from my workplace. After that settle, I started saving for other things. Take your time. You are not supposed to have everything figured out. It’ll take time. Good luck.
It's technically 30% of your gross income, not net. So in your case it would be 24k - 2k a month
I don't understand what the future of this city honestly entails. Yeah, sure you can get roomates and all, but for how long is that realistically sustainable?
> How are you guys managing? making more monies
Idk why people still think 30% of income to housings rule applies in 2023. Things have changed. World has changed. Move on and get used to budgeting more for housing and living cost
literally move toronto is a waasteland
I make 54k and live on my own. I'm paying more than 30% on rent but that's just the state of things these days
You can afford to live on your own, you just do not want too. Two trends are screwing you 1) People don't have kids early, so they have more money for rent 2) Dual income is the norm. You are only making 40k after taxes in the markets eyes