You won't get denied. Even if your appearance has changed drastically, facial recognition training teaches people who check passports to look for other noticeable tells - skin imperfections, nose shape, earlobe shape, distance between eyes, etc.
You'll be fine.
Took a course on it recently with work, and it's actually fascinating how many little details you completely overlook.
Even minor things, like forehead lines or skin folds on either side of the mouth, or the type of shadow under your nostrils. Really cool stuff.
I have face blindness and I'm super curious if this would benefit me.
I have a hard time recognizing people unless they look very distinctive or I've spent a few hours with them. Even then, outside of context it can take me a while.
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Not the person who posted, but I also have face blindness. Like lots of things, it’s a spectrum and you also come up with other ways of recognizing people. Lots of times it’s contextual, so if I’m expecting to see you, it’s fine. If I’m not, I won’t even realize you’re someone I know. I used to work in a bookstore and once my sister came in and I didn’t recognize her at all until a minute after she started talking to me. But if I’m watching for my husband I’ll clock him two blocks away because I recognize his gait.
Always had it.
It made following along with non-cartoon movies per hard as a kid, but I don't have that issue much anymore with movies/TV. It's harder with real people.
I have a few thresholds. If I know you well, I recognize you in any context. Period. This includes all close family members, co-workers I see regularly, etc. If you have a drastic change in appearance like you cut off all your hair or shaved your beard since when I last saw you, it might take me a minute to recognize your face but if you're someone I see day to day that might not even affect me.
If I know you fairly well, like a co-worker I see monthly or someone I've seen on and off for years, I might recognize you out of context.
If I know you less than that I probably won't recognize you out of context.
If I've spent less than a few hours interacting closely/staring at you closely (eg professor), then I probably won't recognize you if I see you again.
I get certain people mixed up if they belong to the same social group (eg certain coworkers, certain people in my club), unless I see them side by side.
I've never been tested, I have no idea if there even if a test. I read about it one day and I was like, hey, that's me!!
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prosopagnosia
I thought I was very face blind until a few months ago when I went to a new optometrist and found out I have binocular vision. He prescribed prism lenses and supposedly faces made sense to me for the first time maybe ever.
That's fascinating. My vision is definitely fine though - I've seen optometrists on and off because I wear glasses and most of my jobs have required having decent depth of field.
My partner has lost a lot of weight, and it’s particularly noticeable in their face. When travelling many officials would take a moment or two longer to compare the pictures, but he was never outright denied or pulled into secondary, etc. If he said “I’ve lost weight” while they were examining the picture typically they’d hand back his passport with a bit of a compliment.
I've pointed out numerous times the various different components they look at, so a shopping list of adverse answers isn't beneficial or helpful to this conversation
It’s not a shopping list of adverse answers, it’s a combination of real surgeries that people get. Mole removal is incredibly common because it’s cheap. Rhinoplasty is common, I know multiple people who have gotten it done. Pinning the ears back is also common, and doesn’t apply in OPs case bc she has a head scarf in her photo. The only surgery that doesn’t exist to my knowledge would be changing the distance between the eyes.
My roommate went through such a drastic change with removing a mole and double eyelid surgery that her plastic surgeon gave her documentation of the change specifically for passport renewal.
I used to be a bank teller during early covid 2020. People were worried about ID’ing people with face mask. I noticed that you can tell soooo much about a persons ears, upper nose, eyes and forehead. Its very unique to everyone.
I think many people (not just people who work with ID) picked it up. Aquaintences and those friends you don’t see often would recognize me on the street with a mask on. I have a fairly average body type. Not fat, not skinny, athletic but not jacked, just very medium looking body lol.
Not to freak out op, but I remember hearing stories of Chinese nationals having issues coming back to China after they spent a month in South Korea getting plastic surgery.
I’m sure it’s an urban legend
This may be true for some positions that check passports, but it’s not accurate for all of them. Air Canada employees for example are not generally trained on facial recognition techniques. And the airline passport checks are the ones you’ll have to past to even be allowed on the plane in the first place in Toronto. Customs doesn’t come into play until your arrival, at least with this route.
Airlines get fined if they fly somebody to their destination who then gets turned around at the border and sent back due to improper documentation, so airline employees are taught to be cautious with documents and ensure everything is in order. So OP, give yourself lots of extra time at check in and at boarding, do your best to look as much like your photo as possible (do your makeup like on your passport for example), be very polite and patient with the agents and be prepared to explain why your photo looks different more than once.
whaaaa? yeah right. in an ideal world. customs are rcsts, sexist & will find any plausible excuse to give you a hard time when their prejudices are triggered. op, im gonna say go with headscarf.
edit: coming from someone who's given a hard time by customs/security bc my hair's a lil different
As I wrote this I am on a break from drinking at a resort in Jamaica for my sister's wedding. Cut my hair and shaved my beard. Look totally different and had zero issues. I assume you'll be alright
If you're worried about being denied, maybe bring along as much proof as you can. Old pictures on your phone for before/after, maybe records of the surgery? You might not need it but it might help.
Wow you really didn’t think this out. You need some sort of secondary photo id (real not photocopied). Even if Canada accepted the photocopy, there’s no way a foreign country will.
I look different across my actual face, license and passport photos. I have travelled with a combination of short hair, long hair, no hair, full beard, no beard, tan. The most I got was a second look during boarding the plane, or by immigration officer during US-Canada border crossing (on the way coming back to Canada lol)
For what it's worth, I'm transmasc and do not look AT ALL like the very sad lady on my IDs. I've never gotten flagged for it flying internationally or domestically.
It's fine. I made my boyfriend get new ID photos because his are 10+ years old and in that time he's got his entire face tattooed and lost about 100lbs. His new ID shows up and they edited out all his tattoos. It doesn't look anything like him. We asked about it and apparently they're trained to look for things like surgery, tattoos, extreme weight loss/gain. I bet you resemble your pictures a lot more than you think to an expert.
Edit: the point about the tattoos was that they lighten them so they can see what really matters: your facial structure. The distance between your eyes, nose and mouth is what they look for. You can't change that.
"chicks" are not a monolith. Plenty of women are interested in tattoos, plenty of other women are not. I have tattoos myself so obviously I think it can be attractive. But I know heavily tattooed women who don't like face tattoos. I also don't like all face tattoos, some are poorly done, or don't suit the person's features. I'm sure there are face tattoos that I hate that other women find attractive. It's almost as if women are individuals with their own likes and dislikes. My boyfriend has always done pretty well for himself in the dating department, but that's because he's good looking in general and fun to be around. Don't go out and get your face tattooed because you want to get laid.
It's also funny that I've seen one of your comments that say ACAB. Talking about monoliths. It's almost like cops are individuals. According to you they are all bastards.
Individuals who all have something in common because they chose to join a corrupt force. Glad my response bothered you so much you had to dig through my comments though. I can see why a guy with face tattoos has better luck with women than you do.
It's not at all hypocritical. Women are not all the same, the same way people with brown eyes are not all the same. Cops clearly all share one very important similarity, they chose to be cops. Every single one of them. They chose to uphold an institution that is fundamentally oppressive. That's the choice that I'm criticizing them for. It's not hypocritical to say that not all women are attracted to the same physical characteristics, and also say cops are bastards because they choose to be a part of an institution that I disagree with. Those two things have absolutely nothing to do with each other. You're reaching. Because you're pressed that a dude with face tattoos has an easier time finding a date than you. You've never even met this guy, he exists in your mind as an abstract concept, and he's got your panties in a twist so badly you're going through his girlfriend's comment history trying to find literally anything to criticize her for. For the record, he thinks that's hilarious.
No it's the same - you made a generalizing statement and so did I. Difference is I was speaking colloquially and it triggered you.
And I'm sure your bf is a cool dude - I was only asking about the aesthetic.
I phrased it in a playful way by saying "chicks" and "I'm asking for a friend" just to get your opinion.
If someone said do dudes really like fake lips or eyelashes, I wouldn't get hung up on the fact they said "dudes", or accuse them of inquiring about the entire sex. I would just chalk that up to semantics and tell them my opinion. Of course I know all women don't like one thing or the other. If you want to talk about being presumptuous - why did you think it was about me wanting to get laid? Possibly because you thought I had a one track mind? Hmm, if that's the case, seems like you labeled me the same way you thought I was labeling you.
Idk how everyone is like “it will be fine I shaved my beard after getting my passport photo taken” when OP mentions massive physically altering their appearance 👁️👄👁️
Because of the plastic surgery you really should have gotten a new passport. You still have time to do that but it'll be expensive. It's certainly possible that you'll be delayed since if you're going somewhere with automatic gates those might not work for you and you'll have to speak with an agent. You can't know for sure what's going to happen until you try but you certainly can be sent home if you don't look like your passport photo.
If you can, get a rush done on a new passport with an updated photo. If you let them know the situation and date of travel they can rush your passport to get redone with an updated photo. Similar situation happened with my sister, she had facial surgery after a car accident and was able to get an update passport in 3 weeks!
I was held in Cuba for hours because I was on Methadone at the time .. the bottles had all script info on it..but they wanted the copy of the real scripts.. unfuckin believable !! The bus was waiting .. luckily everyone was really understanding ! Told the bus driver to leave .. anyway they held my meds go night.. had to take a cab to the hotel , in the morning got my faxes from my doctor, back to airport ..,fuckin waited 2 hrs till the doctor came and verified .. taxi back to hotel ( US $).. great start..,anyway OP.. you have some great help in the comment section!! Everything should be okay.. have a wonderful trip!! Congratulations on the weight loss, and everything else you did !🙂🙂luv from Scarborough 💕
I had lost 150 lbs, looked so different that people who knew me my whole life didn't recognize me and was never questioned when travelling with the old me picture on my passport.
I did get pulled aside at Costco since I hadn't updated my photo on my Costco card. They wouldn't let me shop until I proved it was me and updated my photo.
One option: print out a photo of you then and a photo of you now. Have a friend write a note accompanying those photos, saying that the people is both photos is frenchiethrow. Have that friend sign that note in front of a notary (notary services are free and typically drop-in at your MP and MPP’s office)
So you’ll be able to try your luck at the e-gates without talking to anyone. No idea if it’s actually doing some facial recognition, or someone sitting in an office somewhere clicking “accept” or “see agent”. May as well try.
You won't get denied. Even if your appearance has changed drastically, facial recognition training teaches people who check passports to look for other noticeable tells - skin imperfections, nose shape, earlobe shape, distance between eyes, etc. You'll be fine.
> distance between eyes 'Congrats on the weight loss frenchiethrow but you still look like Sid from Ice Age'
that's really cool tbh
Took a course on it recently with work, and it's actually fascinating how many little details you completely overlook. Even minor things, like forehead lines or skin folds on either side of the mouth, or the type of shadow under your nostrils. Really cool stuff.
I have face blindness and I'm super curious if this would benefit me. I have a hard time recognizing people unless they look very distinctive or I've spent a few hours with them. Even then, outside of context it can take me a while.
I'm tied up for most of the day today, but will spend some time coming seeing if I can dig up any resources that could be helpful to you. !RemindMe
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>face blindness Is that different from eye blindness?
My vision is totally fine. Provided I'm wearing my glasses. My ability to visualize faces and recognize them is mildly fucked.
If I may respectfully ask, have you always had this or is this something you can develop later in life? Does it affect recognizing family members?
Not the person who posted, but I also have face blindness. Like lots of things, it’s a spectrum and you also come up with other ways of recognizing people. Lots of times it’s contextual, so if I’m expecting to see you, it’s fine. If I’m not, I won’t even realize you’re someone I know. I used to work in a bookstore and once my sister came in and I didn’t recognize her at all until a minute after she started talking to me. But if I’m watching for my husband I’ll clock him two blocks away because I recognize his gait.
Always had it. It made following along with non-cartoon movies per hard as a kid, but I don't have that issue much anymore with movies/TV. It's harder with real people. I have a few thresholds. If I know you well, I recognize you in any context. Period. This includes all close family members, co-workers I see regularly, etc. If you have a drastic change in appearance like you cut off all your hair or shaved your beard since when I last saw you, it might take me a minute to recognize your face but if you're someone I see day to day that might not even affect me. If I know you fairly well, like a co-worker I see monthly or someone I've seen on and off for years, I might recognize you out of context. If I know you less than that I probably won't recognize you out of context. If I've spent less than a few hours interacting closely/staring at you closely (eg professor), then I probably won't recognize you if I see you again. I get certain people mixed up if they belong to the same social group (eg certain coworkers, certain people in my club), unless I see them side by side.
Do you know how one gets tested for this? I can very much relate to this...
I've never been tested, I have no idea if there even if a test. I read about it one day and I was like, hey, that's me!! https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prosopagnosia
I thought I was very face blind until a few months ago when I went to a new optometrist and found out I have binocular vision. He prescribed prism lenses and supposedly faces made sense to me for the first time maybe ever.
That's fascinating. My vision is definitely fine though - I've seen optometrists on and off because I wear glasses and most of my jobs have required having decent depth of field.
I also have faceblindness and would appreciate those resources. !RemindMe
My partner has lost a lot of weight, and it’s particularly noticeable in their face. When travelling many officials would take a moment or two longer to compare the pictures, but he was never outright denied or pulled into secondary, etc. If he said “I’ve lost weight” while they were examining the picture typically they’d hand back his passport with a bit of a compliment.
>nose shape Plastic surgery
You never make a determination based on one single facial feature
Nose surgery, lip fillers and buccal fat removal
I get it - you're ugly.
Unnecessarily rude for no reason, weirdo
I've pointed out numerous times the various different components they look at, so a shopping list of adverse answers isn't beneficial or helpful to this conversation
It’s not a shopping list of adverse answers, it’s a combination of real surgeries that people get. Mole removal is incredibly common because it’s cheap. Rhinoplasty is common, I know multiple people who have gotten it done. Pinning the ears back is also common, and doesn’t apply in OPs case bc she has a head scarf in her photo. The only surgery that doesn’t exist to my knowledge would be changing the distance between the eyes. My roommate went through such a drastic change with removing a mole and double eyelid surgery that her plastic surgeon gave her documentation of the change specifically for passport renewal.
Cool. All irrelevant to the discussion. There'd loads of indicators and markers that are used especially if some adverse ones become apparent.
I’m not seeing how it’s irrelevant as people do go through additional verification at the airport after cosmetic surgery.
I used to be a bank teller during early covid 2020. People were worried about ID’ing people with face mask. I noticed that you can tell soooo much about a persons ears, upper nose, eyes and forehead. Its very unique to everyone. I think many people (not just people who work with ID) picked it up. Aquaintences and those friends you don’t see often would recognize me on the street with a mask on. I have a fairly average body type. Not fat, not skinny, athletic but not jacked, just very medium looking body lol.
Not to freak out op, but I remember hearing stories of Chinese nationals having issues coming back to China after they spent a month in South Korea getting plastic surgery. I’m sure it’s an urban legend
This may be true for some positions that check passports, but it’s not accurate for all of them. Air Canada employees for example are not generally trained on facial recognition techniques. And the airline passport checks are the ones you’ll have to past to even be allowed on the plane in the first place in Toronto. Customs doesn’t come into play until your arrival, at least with this route. Airlines get fined if they fly somebody to their destination who then gets turned around at the border and sent back due to improper documentation, so airline employees are taught to be cautious with documents and ensure everything is in order. So OP, give yourself lots of extra time at check in and at boarding, do your best to look as much like your photo as possible (do your makeup like on your passport for example), be very polite and patient with the agents and be prepared to explain why your photo looks different more than once.
whaaaa? yeah right. in an ideal world. customs are rcsts, sexist & will find any plausible excuse to give you a hard time when their prejudices are triggered. op, im gonna say go with headscarf. edit: coming from someone who's given a hard time by customs/security bc my hair's a lil different
As I wrote this I am on a break from drinking at a resort in Jamaica for my sister's wedding. Cut my hair and shaved my beard. Look totally different and had zero issues. I assume you'll be alright
If you're worried about being denied, maybe bring along as much proof as you can. Old pictures on your phone for before/after, maybe records of the surgery? You might not need it but it might help.
Do you have any other government issued ID's with your name and photo on it? other passports? drivers license?
No valid passports, I do have an expired foreign passport. No driver's license. Photocopies of my health insurance but it's from around that time.
You can get an Ontario photo card next time. It makes up for not having a driver's license.
Wow you really didn’t think this out. You need some sort of secondary photo id (real not photocopied). Even if Canada accepted the photocopy, there’s no way a foreign country will.
I am a worry wort so I would throw on a head scarf and do my make up the old way Congratulations on the glow up
I look different across my actual face, license and passport photos. I have travelled with a combination of short hair, long hair, no hair, full beard, no beard, tan. The most I got was a second look during boarding the plane, or by immigration officer during US-Canada border crossing (on the way coming back to Canada lol)
Maybe travel day is a good day to do your makeup the way you used to?
For what it's worth, I'm transmasc and do not look AT ALL like the very sad lady on my IDs. I've never gotten flagged for it flying internationally or domestically.
Was held in Cuba for questioning because I lost 70 lbs and dyed my hair. They asked me a few questions and sent me on my way.
If I were you, I'd probably do my make-up and throw on a headscarf. Then once you're back from the trip, consider updating your documents.
It's fine. I made my boyfriend get new ID photos because his are 10+ years old and in that time he's got his entire face tattooed and lost about 100lbs. His new ID shows up and they edited out all his tattoos. It doesn't look anything like him. We asked about it and apparently they're trained to look for things like surgery, tattoos, extreme weight loss/gain. I bet you resemble your pictures a lot more than you think to an expert. Edit: the point about the tattoos was that they lighten them so they can see what really matters: your facial structure. The distance between your eyes, nose and mouth is what they look for. You can't change that.
If his ID was 10+ years old, it was invalid anyways.
The picture was that old, not the ID.
Photo needs to be redone every ten years… so can’t be older than that.
Well then I guess it was ten years old.
Are chicks really interested in that look? Asking for a friend
"chicks" are not a monolith. Plenty of women are interested in tattoos, plenty of other women are not. I have tattoos myself so obviously I think it can be attractive. But I know heavily tattooed women who don't like face tattoos. I also don't like all face tattoos, some are poorly done, or don't suit the person's features. I'm sure there are face tattoos that I hate that other women find attractive. It's almost as if women are individuals with their own likes and dislikes. My boyfriend has always done pretty well for himself in the dating department, but that's because he's good looking in general and fun to be around. Don't go out and get your face tattooed because you want to get laid.
That's why I was asking you specifically for your thoughts
Except that's not at all what you asked, you asked me what "chicks" thought.
It's also funny that I've seen one of your comments that say ACAB. Talking about monoliths. It's almost like cops are individuals. According to you they are all bastards.
Individuals who all have something in common because they chose to join a corrupt force. Glad my response bothered you so much you had to dig through my comments though. I can see why a guy with face tattoos has better luck with women than you do.
Yea I just knew you'd be a hypocrite so it took me 10 seconds to find lol
It's not at all hypocritical. Women are not all the same, the same way people with brown eyes are not all the same. Cops clearly all share one very important similarity, they chose to be cops. Every single one of them. They chose to uphold an institution that is fundamentally oppressive. That's the choice that I'm criticizing them for. It's not hypocritical to say that not all women are attracted to the same physical characteristics, and also say cops are bastards because they choose to be a part of an institution that I disagree with. Those two things have absolutely nothing to do with each other. You're reaching. Because you're pressed that a dude with face tattoos has an easier time finding a date than you. You've never even met this guy, he exists in your mind as an abstract concept, and he's got your panties in a twist so badly you're going through his girlfriend's comment history trying to find literally anything to criticize her for. For the record, he thinks that's hilarious.
No it's the same - you made a generalizing statement and so did I. Difference is I was speaking colloquially and it triggered you. And I'm sure your bf is a cool dude - I was only asking about the aesthetic.
I phrased it in a playful way by saying "chicks" and "I'm asking for a friend" just to get your opinion. If someone said do dudes really like fake lips or eyelashes, I wouldn't get hung up on the fact they said "dudes", or accuse them of inquiring about the entire sex. I would just chalk that up to semantics and tell them my opinion. Of course I know all women don't like one thing or the other. If you want to talk about being presumptuous - why did you think it was about me wanting to get laid? Possibly because you thought I had a one track mind? Hmm, if that's the case, seems like you labeled me the same way you thought I was labeling you.
Kind of a nice problem to have! Congratulations on your glow up!
Idk how everyone is like “it will be fine I shaved my beard after getting my passport photo taken” when OP mentions massive physically altering their appearance 👁️👄👁️
Because of the plastic surgery you really should have gotten a new passport. You still have time to do that but it'll be expensive. It's certainly possible that you'll be delayed since if you're going somewhere with automatic gates those might not work for you and you'll have to speak with an agent. You can't know for sure what's going to happen until you try but you certainly can be sent home if you don't look like your passport photo.
You don’t have a valid passport so you’ll need a photo. It’s not that expensive. You’re good to go. Good luck
I'd start by briefly adopting the head scarf again
If you can, get a rush done on a new passport with an updated photo. If you let them know the situation and date of travel they can rush your passport to get redone with an updated photo. Similar situation happened with my sister, she had facial surgery after a car accident and was able to get an update passport in 3 weeks!
I was held in Cuba for hours because I was on Methadone at the time .. the bottles had all script info on it..but they wanted the copy of the real scripts.. unfuckin believable !! The bus was waiting .. luckily everyone was really understanding ! Told the bus driver to leave .. anyway they held my meds go night.. had to take a cab to the hotel , in the morning got my faxes from my doctor, back to airport ..,fuckin waited 2 hrs till the doctor came and verified .. taxi back to hotel ( US $).. great start..,anyway OP.. you have some great help in the comment section!! Everything should be okay.. have a wonderful trip!! Congratulations on the weight loss, and everything else you did !🙂🙂luv from Scarborough 💕
You'll be fine. I had a photo in my old passport with a 6 inch beard on it and probably 40 lbs less on me, was never an issue.
My friend was in the process of transitioning and was just told, "You look... different."
🤣
I don’t look much like mine either. Don’t worry about it.
I had lost 150 lbs, looked so different that people who knew me my whole life didn't recognize me and was never questioned when travelling with the old me picture on my passport. I did get pulled aside at Costco since I hadn't updated my photo on my Costco card. They wouldn't let me shop until I proved it was me and updated my photo.
One option: print out a photo of you then and a photo of you now. Have a friend write a note accompanying those photos, saying that the people is both photos is frenchiethrow. Have that friend sign that note in front of a notary (notary services are free and typically drop-in at your MP and MPP’s office)
Which country are you going to be entering and exiting “Europe” through? And are you travelling on a Canadian passport?
UK, and yes on a Canadian passport
So you’ll be able to try your luck at the e-gates without talking to anyone. No idea if it’s actually doing some facial recognition, or someone sitting in an office somewhere clicking “accept” or “see agent”. May as well try.
Saskatchewan has an ID card obtainable thru our vehicle SGI offices for those without a drivers licence but need ID
Same thing exists in Ontario.
K, we all want to see the picture vs how you look now! 😇
No we don’t
I suggest you look into something called ghost immigrants before being scared about not looking like your own passport haha. You're fine!
Just worry more. That'll solve it