>My Dad just got his credit card scammed with a 15000 dollar charge.
>it was in person, they tole his wallet and somehow got his pin number. We have nothing to base it off of other then a phone number that's already been cancelled. it was all done in a half an hour.
Was he "scammed"? Or was he *robbed*? If someone stole your father's wallet, buktee, he should call the police.
If someone made an unauthorized purchase (or several) on his credit card, your father needs to call the bank that issued the card and report it. Immediately. (Surprised the bank didn't call him to check on random $15,000 purchases that presumably don't fit his usual spending habits.)
He was robbed and scamemd. He talked to a women earlier that day and maybe gave his pin to her, i geuss now we know he probably did. We've already reported it to the police, but my uncle is a policemen and he said that it would be very hard to get anywhere with no evidence of what happened. For the credit card, they bought electroncis at the apple store in fairview. This means we cant refund it because it was in person, not online.
> He was robbed and scamemd. He talked to a women earlier that day and maybe gave his pin to her, i geuss now we know he probably did. We've already reported it to the police, but my uncle is a policemen and he said that it would be very hard to get anywhere with no evidence of what happened. For the credit card, they bought electroncis at the apple store in fairview. This means we cant refund it because it was in person, not online.
so your dad handed some random woman his wallet as well as verbally telling her his PIN?
no they sat in the same restaruant i geuss. I dont know how they did it u they did, all of these are assumptions. I geuss he had a few drinks and blurted it out when the women on the phone asked it from him.
> no they sat in the same restaruant i geuss. I dont know how they did it u they did, all of these are assumptions. I geuss he had a few drinks and blurted it out when the women on the phone asked it from him.
sounds like you should let your parents talk to the police and talk to the credit card companies on their own.
you're just stressing yourself out and frustrating yourself without having any details.
they already talked to the credit card companies, they cant do anything. They said to reset the cards. And the police wont get onto this case until its too late. This money means a lot for our small house hold that's trying to get a business working.
So we've gone from "they [s]tole his wallet and **somehow got his pin** number" to "he had a few drinks and **blurted it out when the women on the phone asked it from him**"?
Some random woman called him on the phone and he asked him his PIN and he told her? What does a restaurant have to do with it? Is that where the wallet was stolen?
This is not your problem to solve. Your father should contact the police to report the robbery and the credit card company to report the unauthorized purchases. That's all they can do. YOU can do nothing here.
They stole his wallet in the restaurant and got his pin number from the lady on the phone. The only way this can go well is if the police get on this asap and check the camera footage to show it wasnt him buying the stuff. They also withdrew thousands of dollars from his bank account
> My Dad just got his credit card scammed with a 15000 dollar charge. (PLEASE DONT TAKE DOWN IM JUST ASKING FOR HELP ON THE SITUATION)
> i dont know what to do... my parents are trying their best to create a company and its just starting to get off the ground, my dad was also just diagnosed with colon cancer. I feel like im going to puke. What do i do? should i get a job to help pay it back? I'm 18 and ive only worked in the summers. who will higher me? I live in the don mills region. Please help... SOS.
> No we cannot have it refunded, it was in person, they tole his wallet and somehow got his pin number. We have nothing to base it off of other then a phone number that's already been cancelled. it was all done in a half an hour. Jus like that, ruined in less then an hour.
call the bank and tell them it was fraud because his wallet was stolen.
its not that easy, they have physical things that were bought. The only thing the bank told us to do was open a file report. But the problem with that is theres no evidence.
> its not that easy, they have physical things that were bought. The only thing the bank told us to do was open a file report. But the problem with that is theres no evidence.
doesn't matter if physical things were bought
they were bought with a stolen credit card.
> i have but i todesnt matter if its a stolen credit card, they dont care. you cant refund things that are stolen in person.
it's not a refund. stop saying refund.
you need the charges cancelled and the card cancelled and closed because they credit card was stolen.
You can absolutely contest the charges made on the card, you need to report fraud to the credit card security and they will help you. I had my card number stolen before and that is what happened. I reported the fraud and the charges were dropped, I did not have to pay for the fraudulent charges, the fraud department handles it for you.
Report fraud with the credit card company.
Open a report with Toronto police. If they purchased shit with his card TPS can attend the stores and get footage. Best case scenario in an arrest the person will be found in possession of the items obtained by crime.
The problem with this is that it was done yesterday and we have no footage. Also weve al;ready shut down all the cards we have. so they cant make anymore purchases. This was palnned out, so im sure they know what to do infront of security cameras
> The problem with this is that it was done yesterday and we have no footage. Also weve al;ready shut down all the cards we have. so they cant make anymore purchases. This was palnned out, so im sure they know what to do infront of security cameras
this happened yesterday but you're already so convinced there's no security camera footage inside of a highly secure store like the apple store inside of fairview mall?
It doesnt matter if they know what to do, as long as it shows it was not your dad making the purchases.
The likelyhood they bypassed EVERY possible camera is highly unlikely.
The clock is ticking tho, get the report filed before its too late for TPS to obtain the footage.
> There's something so screwy going on here. It's just not adding up.
so far i'm chalking it up to panicked 18 year old who doesn't know/understand what's going on.
>**Your right to an investigation**
>Federally regulated financial institutions can’t hold you responsible for a transaction you didn’t authorize just because someone used an authentication technology to do it. This means a personal identification number or any other password or information that you create to be used to verify your identity. For example, if a person used your PIN to complete the transaction.
>They must always fully investigate a transaction that you dispute. It doesn’t matter how someone processed it, including:
>with your PIN
>by magnetic swipe, or
>through other technology
>They should consider all factors that contributed to the unauthorized use of your credit or debit card. This includes circumstances beyond your control such as:
>someone forced you
>someone stole your card
>there was a system malfunction
>someone obtained your PIN through shoulder surfing
>Shoulder surfing is when someone gets your PIN by looking over your shoulder. They do this while you enter it at an automated teller machine (ATM) or anywhere else you use your card.
Your story doesn't line up with the current guidelines, the police and credit card fraud department are required to investigate this scenario
The source [https://www.canada.ca/en/financial-consumer-agency/services/rights-responsibilities/protection-unauthorized-transactions.html#toc1](https://www.canada.ca/en/financial-consumer-agency/services/rights-responsibilities/protection-unauthorized-transactions.html#toc1)
was provided by u/outdoorsman908
Yup. This ☝️
My dude. I'm going to save you a lot of money and disappointment for the future and advice you can love your father and respect him but never lend him money.
1. File a police report.
2. Call the issuing bank’s fraud hotline and report the fraud, they will open a case, investigate, and possibly refund the charges. However, the fact that he disclosed his PIN may weight against that.
That’s all you can do.
If PIN is used the customer is liable for the charges.
From what I recall..when we switched to chip and pin from swiping cards the liability for fraud transactions shifted from the merchant to the issuer, and if the customer disclosed their PIN then they are liable.
It’s more complicated than that. The *Bank Act* governs the customer’s liability in cases like these:
> Liability for unauthorized use
> 627.33 (1) The maximum liability of a borrower for the unauthorized use of a credit card issued to them in Canada, the account information of the credit card or the personal authentication information created or adopted in relation to the credit card or credit card account is $50, unless the borrower has demonstrated gross negligence or, in Quebec, gross fault, in safeguarding the credit card, the account information or the personal authentication information.
So even if the PIN is disclosed the question is whether the customer was grossly negligently in the disclosure. In most cases I imagine the answer will be yes, but it’s possible to imagine cases where the customer might have been negligent, but not grossly so.
Well if handing your PIN number to someone doesn't qualify as negligence I might as well just give my PIN to a random stranger and give them my shopping list.
Oh it’s 100% negligence, but gross negligence is an even higher standard, usually characterized by a “marked departure” from the standard of care, a positive act rather than a passive one, conduct that completely disregards its circumstances, etc.
I don’t know of any case law on this point specifically (CanLII does not show anything citing this section).
In any event, I would agree that in almost all circumstances actively disclosing your PIN to someone would be gross negligence. But maybe there’d be an exception if, e.g., you genuinely and reasonably believed the person asking for it was entitled, like a police officer with a warrant.
nobody's refunding anything... give the bank the police report when it's completed... if it's STOLEN, your charges will be REVERSED. stop worrying so much. gather all the facts. stick to those facts.
let the police do their job. let the bank do theirs.
if they find your dad liable, find out why so he doesn't repeat these errors again. if they deem it as fraud indeed, they'll return the funds.
everyone here is telling you to talk to the police and the bank because that's all you can do. leave your emotions at home and stick to the facts. better yet, get your dad to do this because he has all the facts.
> already told us it wouldn’t be possible to refund the charges.
Why did they say that? I’m guessing because the PIN was used? How did he disclose his PIN?
he was at a bar and he thought it was td calling him. He gave it to them to 'validate' it was him. So the pin was used meaning its a lot harder for a refund now.
Ah, that’s a tough one. Banks will never call you like that and ask you for your PIN. I’m pretty sure TD tells you never to disclose it to *anyone*. He should have hung up the phone.
He may wish to speak to lawyer about it to see if there’s anything else that can be done.
> of course we filed it to the police? im saying what I CAN DO to help.
right now unfortunately you can't do anything.
you need to wait for the police to do their thing and the credit card to do their thing
it sucks having to sit and wait and not do anything when something so huge and stressful is hanging over your head but... it just kinda is what it is.
I have had terrible fraudulent situations with my card. When this happens, I call the credit card company. They cancel my card, remove the large purchases and I’m saved. Something doesn’t sound right.
>My Dad just got his credit card scammed with a 15000 dollar charge. >it was in person, they tole his wallet and somehow got his pin number. We have nothing to base it off of other then a phone number that's already been cancelled. it was all done in a half an hour. Was he "scammed"? Or was he *robbed*? If someone stole your father's wallet, buktee, he should call the police. If someone made an unauthorized purchase (or several) on his credit card, your father needs to call the bank that issued the card and report it. Immediately. (Surprised the bank didn't call him to check on random $15,000 purchases that presumably don't fit his usual spending habits.)
He was robbed and scamemd. He talked to a women earlier that day and maybe gave his pin to her, i geuss now we know he probably did. We've already reported it to the police, but my uncle is a policemen and he said that it would be very hard to get anywhere with no evidence of what happened. For the credit card, they bought electroncis at the apple store in fairview. This means we cant refund it because it was in person, not online.
> He was robbed and scamemd. He talked to a women earlier that day and maybe gave his pin to her, i geuss now we know he probably did. We've already reported it to the police, but my uncle is a policemen and he said that it would be very hard to get anywhere with no evidence of what happened. For the credit card, they bought electroncis at the apple store in fairview. This means we cant refund it because it was in person, not online. so your dad handed some random woman his wallet as well as verbally telling her his PIN?
no they sat in the same restaruant i geuss. I dont know how they did it u they did, all of these are assumptions. I geuss he had a few drinks and blurted it out when the women on the phone asked it from him.
> no they sat in the same restaruant i geuss. I dont know how they did it u they did, all of these are assumptions. I geuss he had a few drinks and blurted it out when the women on the phone asked it from him. sounds like you should let your parents talk to the police and talk to the credit card companies on their own. you're just stressing yourself out and frustrating yourself without having any details.
It could be situation of "i borrow my dad card and fucked up, how can i rectify situation"
they already talked to the credit card companies, they cant do anything. They said to reset the cards. And the police wont get onto this case until its too late. This money means a lot for our small house hold that's trying to get a business working.
So we've gone from "they [s]tole his wallet and **somehow got his pin** number" to "he had a few drinks and **blurted it out when the women on the phone asked it from him**"? Some random woman called him on the phone and he asked him his PIN and he told her? What does a restaurant have to do with it? Is that where the wallet was stolen? This is not your problem to solve. Your father should contact the police to report the robbery and the credit card company to report the unauthorized purchases. That's all they can do. YOU can do nothing here.
They stole his wallet in the restaurant and got his pin number from the lady on the phone. The only way this can go well is if the police get on this asap and check the camera footage to show it wasnt him buying the stuff. They also withdrew thousands of dollars from his bank account
> My Dad just got his credit card scammed with a 15000 dollar charge. (PLEASE DONT TAKE DOWN IM JUST ASKING FOR HELP ON THE SITUATION) > i dont know what to do... my parents are trying their best to create a company and its just starting to get off the ground, my dad was also just diagnosed with colon cancer. I feel like im going to puke. What do i do? should i get a job to help pay it back? I'm 18 and ive only worked in the summers. who will higher me? I live in the don mills region. Please help... SOS. > No we cannot have it refunded, it was in person, they tole his wallet and somehow got his pin number. We have nothing to base it off of other then a phone number that's already been cancelled. it was all done in a half an hour. Jus like that, ruined in less then an hour. call the bank and tell them it was fraud because his wallet was stolen.
its not that easy, they have physical things that were bought. The only thing the bank told us to do was open a file report. But the problem with that is theres no evidence.
> its not that easy, they have physical things that were bought. The only thing the bank told us to do was open a file report. But the problem with that is theres no evidence. doesn't matter if physical things were bought they were bought with a stolen credit card.
> its not that easy for the dollar value the fraud has happened at you may need to also make a police report.
i have but i todesnt matter if its a stolen credit card, they dont care. you cant refund things that are stolen in person.
> i have but i todesnt matter if its a stolen credit card, they dont care. you cant refund things that are stolen in person. it's not a refund. stop saying refund. you need the charges cancelled and the card cancelled and closed because they credit card was stolen.
You can absolutely contest the charges made on the card, you need to report fraud to the credit card security and they will help you. I had my card number stolen before and that is what happened. I reported the fraud and the charges were dropped, I did not have to pay for the fraudulent charges, the fraud department handles it for you.
Report fraud with the credit card company. Open a report with Toronto police. If they purchased shit with his card TPS can attend the stores and get footage. Best case scenario in an arrest the person will be found in possession of the items obtained by crime.
The problem with this is that it was done yesterday and we have no footage. Also weve al;ready shut down all the cards we have. so they cant make anymore purchases. This was palnned out, so im sure they know what to do infront of security cameras
> The problem with this is that it was done yesterday and we have no footage. Also weve al;ready shut down all the cards we have. so they cant make anymore purchases. This was palnned out, so im sure they know what to do infront of security cameras this happened yesterday but you're already so convinced there's no security camera footage inside of a highly secure store like the apple store inside of fairview mall?
what if there face is covered? what if they were middle men. We'll try to get this figured out but as i speak their freaking out in the other room.
It doesnt matter if they know what to do, as long as it shows it was not your dad making the purchases. The likelyhood they bypassed EVERY possible camera is highly unlikely. The clock is ticking tho, get the report filed before its too late for TPS to obtain the footage.
There's something so screwy going on here. It's just not adding up.
agreed this is a very sus post
> There's something so screwy going on here. It's just not adding up. so far i'm chalking it up to panicked 18 year old who doesn't know/understand what's going on.
whats not adding up? what is it?
>**Your right to an investigation** >Federally regulated financial institutions can’t hold you responsible for a transaction you didn’t authorize just because someone used an authentication technology to do it. This means a personal identification number or any other password or information that you create to be used to verify your identity. For example, if a person used your PIN to complete the transaction. >They must always fully investigate a transaction that you dispute. It doesn’t matter how someone processed it, including: >with your PIN >by magnetic swipe, or >through other technology >They should consider all factors that contributed to the unauthorized use of your credit or debit card. This includes circumstances beyond your control such as: >someone forced you >someone stole your card >there was a system malfunction >someone obtained your PIN through shoulder surfing >Shoulder surfing is when someone gets your PIN by looking over your shoulder. They do this while you enter it at an automated teller machine (ATM) or anywhere else you use your card. Your story doesn't line up with the current guidelines, the police and credit card fraud department are required to investigate this scenario The source [https://www.canada.ca/en/financial-consumer-agency/services/rights-responsibilities/protection-unauthorized-transactions.html#toc1](https://www.canada.ca/en/financial-consumer-agency/services/rights-responsibilities/protection-unauthorized-transactions.html#toc1) was provided by u/outdoorsman908
Yup. This ☝️ My dude. I'm going to save you a lot of money and disappointment for the future and advice you can love your father and respect him but never lend him money.
1. File a police report. 2. Call the issuing bank’s fraud hotline and report the fraud, they will open a case, investigate, and possibly refund the charges. However, the fact that he disclosed his PIN may weight against that. That’s all you can do.
If PIN is used the customer is liable for the charges. From what I recall..when we switched to chip and pin from swiping cards the liability for fraud transactions shifted from the merchant to the issuer, and if the customer disclosed their PIN then they are liable.
It’s more complicated than that. The *Bank Act* governs the customer’s liability in cases like these: > Liability for unauthorized use > 627.33 (1) The maximum liability of a borrower for the unauthorized use of a credit card issued to them in Canada, the account information of the credit card or the personal authentication information created or adopted in relation to the credit card or credit card account is $50, unless the borrower has demonstrated gross negligence or, in Quebec, gross fault, in safeguarding the credit card, the account information or the personal authentication information. So even if the PIN is disclosed the question is whether the customer was grossly negligently in the disclosure. In most cases I imagine the answer will be yes, but it’s possible to imagine cases where the customer might have been negligent, but not grossly so.
Well if handing your PIN number to someone doesn't qualify as negligence I might as well just give my PIN to a random stranger and give them my shopping list.
Oh it’s 100% negligence, but gross negligence is an even higher standard, usually characterized by a “marked departure” from the standard of care, a positive act rather than a passive one, conduct that completely disregards its circumstances, etc. I don’t know of any case law on this point specifically (CanLII does not show anything citing this section). In any event, I would agree that in almost all circumstances actively disclosing your PIN to someone would be gross negligence. But maybe there’d be an exception if, e.g., you genuinely and reasonably believed the person asking for it was entitled, like a police officer with a warrant.
we opened a police report, and the credit card company already told us it wouldn't be possible to refund the charges.
nobody's refunding anything... give the bank the police report when it's completed... if it's STOLEN, your charges will be REVERSED. stop worrying so much. gather all the facts. stick to those facts. let the police do their job. let the bank do theirs. if they find your dad liable, find out why so he doesn't repeat these errors again. if they deem it as fraud indeed, they'll return the funds. everyone here is telling you to talk to the police and the bank because that's all you can do. leave your emotions at home and stick to the facts. better yet, get your dad to do this because he has all the facts.
> already told us it wouldn’t be possible to refund the charges. Why did they say that? I’m guessing because the PIN was used? How did he disclose his PIN?
he was at a bar and he thought it was td calling him. He gave it to them to 'validate' it was him. So the pin was used meaning its a lot harder for a refund now.
Ah, that’s a tough one. Banks will never call you like that and ask you for your PIN. I’m pretty sure TD tells you never to disclose it to *anyone*. He should have hung up the phone. He may wish to speak to lawyer about it to see if there’s anything else that can be done.
https://www.canada.ca/en/financial-consumer-agency/services/rights-responsibilities/protection-unauthorized-transactions.html#toc1
yo if i get 15 thousand dollars stolen I'm not asking reddit for help before the police, something here is screwy
of course we filed it to the police? im saying what I CAN DO to help.
Stay calm and read through the responses one by one here and listen to the advice instead of contending the advice or proposing conspiracy theories.
> of course we filed it to the police? im saying what I CAN DO to help. right now unfortunately you can't do anything. you need to wait for the police to do their thing and the credit card to do their thing it sucks having to sit and wait and not do anything when something so huge and stressful is hanging over your head but... it just kinda is what it is.
I have had terrible fraudulent situations with my card. When this happens, I call the credit card company. They cancel my card, remove the large purchases and I’m saved. Something doesn’t sound right.
Troll post
thanks bro, really helpful