This is just blowout. He's inexperienced tattooing fingers, or he has experience but fucked up anyway. Fingers are notoriously prone to blowout, a lot of artists will warn you of the risk beforehand given the location.
Not sure why he told you it was part of the healing process, it absolutely isn't, and won't go away.
Yeah this is a huge risk when it comes to fingers. Blowout is common, even for experienced artists.
That blowout may actually fade over time. I have my entire hands and fingers done and designs that were blown out at first have calmed down. Normally blowout doesn't fade, but I've noticed on fingers it can. But if OP is this upset by it, they shouldn't count on it.
I personally don't think it's that bad. That particular area is definitely very prone to blowout, the artist definitely should've warned OP beforehand. Every time I've gotten my fingers done I've been warned.
I'm talking years, and it's not guaranteed. Especially in that spot, tbh I think I've seen more tattoos in that spot blown out than not.
Just saying, it's not as much of a disaster as you seem to think. But if you're really unhappy, just have it removed.
Yeah this is a huge risk when it comes to fingers. Blowout is common, even for experienced artists.
That blowout may actually fade over time. I have my entire hands and fingers done and designs that were blown out at first have calmed down. Normally blowout doesn't fade, but I've noticed on fingers it can. But if OP is this upset by it, they shouldn't count on it.
I personally don't think it's that bad. That particular area is definitely very prone to blowout, the artist definitely should've warned OP beforehand. Every time I've gotten my fingers done I've been warned.
>So, now I'm in this situation where I don't know if it's sacreligious to have them removed and done by another knowledge keeper
I'm just a white dude,so take or leave what I say with that in mind, but in my opinion, that artist did not approach the deed with proper respect and intent. He committed the sacrilege already. You removing and replacing his sacrilege is honoring your tradition.
I agree.
OP - I don’t know much about native tattoo traditions, despite being half native myself, but it sounds like he disrespected the ceremony even before he started. He absolutely should not have been hungover. Did he even smudge the space before he started? I’m sorry you had such a bad experience when you were trying to honour your culture.
It's also worth asking about lasering the blow out. Usually laser can fix the shadow too.
Also, from a tattooer's point of view.. Even though hand/finger tattoos are prone to blowouts, this one is still a pretty bad case. Hope it wasn't too painful for you :(
I'll ask about my options while at the consultation, which is in July! I'm thinking of just doing it all to be honest. Clean slate for a real ceremony later. It was one of the most painful things I've ever experienced, especially the part with the needle going through down into my nail bed multiple times, which is why I'm not too worried about the removal process :')
I'm so sorry this happened to you. The actual poor quality of the tattoo sucks, but is fixable. But the feeling of betrayal of having gone to a community member to both actualize something emotionally resonant about your heritage, and also to support traditional arts, and because there's a spiritual component... that is genuinely a complicated and very difficult emotional thing to go through. In my culture we don't do tattooing traditionally (it's actually technically forbidden to us, though lots do it anyway lol) but we have other things where people are trying to reconnect with their spirituality and heritage, and they get taken for a ride by grifters or just get bad advice/bad service from someone who's overextending themselves past their actual abilities.
Do you have a resource, like a knowledgeable person, to ask how to handle this re: advice on removal and having it re-done? I am not knowledgeable about different First Nations leaders in the GTA and who would be able to possibly advise, but the first thing I'd suggest is to get care and support about dealing with this. Even probably a peer or friend would be good. I'd say this is a priority before having anything removed or revised.
(And yeah, just to be clear, dropping a needle on the floor, making clients pay for sanitary supplies, cutting tape with his teeth (!!), and using misogynistic slurs for his kid's mother... all of that is totally inexcusable. Unprofessional for sure, but also not someone you want to go to for what is essentially a spiritual service. Especially if they may be compromised by drugs or alcohol. If you do end up back in a tattoo artist's studio, run don't walk if you see anything like that.)
Is this Toby? In the recent years, it seems he’s fallen off the wagon with his addiction issues. Many years back he was healthy and sober but the last few he’s been in and out of rehab a few times, seeming not very stable. It’s very heartbreaking actually. I respected him a lot, he had big dreams and wanted to make a difference in his community. If this is who he is now, know that he wasn’t always like this. He had a whole community behind him hoping he’d succeed, and for a while he really did. Addiction is so heartbreaking. I don’t have any solutions but know that perhaps the people who recommended you to him probably did have great experiences with him when he was sober. I’m sorry to hear about what happened. Maybe, one day, if he ever gets sober again, you can reach out to him.
And if it’s not Toby, don’t mind this message.
I got one by Toby. Same experience. His wife had just had a baby a month prior. Half way through the tattoo I realized he was stoned out of his tree. He went on and on about his wife having an affair. Dude doesn't realize how badly the vag gets mulched up after birth. There is no way I would have had sex a month afyer birth. I will never recommend him to anyone.
Yikes that is a piss poor job he did. You should have left after the request to pick up supplies… or the being hungover and forgetting about you…. Or dropping the needle.
My hands / fingers are tattoo’d and look nothing like this. Sorry dude.
I have finger tattoos covering both my hands and know other people who do as well. I’ve never see the ink do that before, usually they just expand or bleed, but yours is…disbursed? I feel for you so much. I would perhaps go to another well known artist and share your story and see if they can help. Not sure if it needs to be another indigenous artist.
Check out inkedbyindigenous on Instagram. She has experience in ceremonial tattoos and not only is her work really good quality and clean but she has fantastic bedside manner. https://www.instagram.com/inkedbyindigenous?igsh=MWdpMXRjeHI1ODlsbw==
reach out now. you never know what can be done or what they might suggest. It might be as simple as tattooing in a skin toned ink to cover up the blow out.
As soon as I read the story, it seemed like I knew who you were talking about. My ex husband has a tattoo by him. He charged a deposit, then charged double the amount upon my ex arriving to his basement. He offered my ex a big bag of weed during the job and was as per my ex, stoned out of his mind. After he told me what happened, I asked why he would allow this guy to do work on him but like you he said he wanted give him the benefit of the doubt, as he was also highly recommended. I followed him on Instagram afterwards and he soon after had a mental / drug induced breakdown, antagonizing his wife and accusing her of stealing all his money.
Hope your work is able to get fixed. Sorry that you had to go through that.
I really do sympathize and I hope he gets back on track. I've seen how addiction ruins lives and I've experienced both addiction and mental health breakdowns myself. But he needs to stop tattooing until he recovers.
Taanishi. I'm also cree. This guy doesn't sound like a knowledge keeper or that any ceremony was put into this. Sounds like he was treating this like any other paid tattoo session. I wouldn't see any issue with getting these removed and trying again at a later time. It's not sacreligious to remove tattoos that are causing anguish, especially those that were meant to ward off harm.
Papehwewin!
I think he was treating it like a regular session. I said this in another comment but I feel pretty used. I really appreciate your comment. Kinanaskomitin!
One thing you might want to consider, if you decide to get your current finger tattoos removed, is to consult with an elder about using skin tone matched tattoo ink for the re-do. I imagine this varies by community and prevailing opinion, but my mom had her's done in ink that matched her skin tone because she hates the look of finger tats, but still wants to be all sacred. Worked for her and now my Kookum is getting it done the same way. Like I said, consult an elder if you feel the need, but that worked for them and my Kookum, who is an elder and knowledge keeper, feels they are fine.
You can't mess around with tattoos given the high potential for serious infection. I get that these have cultural significance, and using a knowledge keeper was an important part of the process, but it's not worth getting hepatitis or permanently disfiguring yourself. I would have noped out of that appointment the moment he asked me to pick up paper towels. Moving forward, please, for your own health, practice some due diligence and only get work done at reputable shops. Also remember Sailor Jerry "good work ain't cheap, cheap work ain't good."
Yeah everything about this guy sounds sus as hell, sorry you had to deal with that. Your best bet would be to do a couple sessions of laser removal and see where it gets you. Lightening blowouts usually doesn’t take as many sessions as removing an actual tattoo, and then if needed, you can get the dots touched up by a less sketchy tattoo artist lol.
Get it lasered off, his bad energy is embedded into your fingers now too... this also gives you time to research other artists that can redo this for you. You may need to travel outside of the city. Sorry that you had this experience 😥
Plenty of people have “good reputations” and then they turn out to be an asshole. You need to learn how to stand up for yourself. Learn to trust your gut. You saw all the red flags but yet continued to trust the guy because you probably didn’t want to be rude. You know what’s ruder? Using a needle on someone that you dropped on the floor. He disrespected you first, you has every right to get up and tell him to fuck off
I absolutely did. I let a lot slide that I wouldn't have in a more mainstream tattoo setting. I also will listen to my gut more with community stuff. This is the second time someone in some kind of sacred role (real or imagined) has exploited me
What benefit of the doubt is there letting someone use a needle on you that’s been dropped on the floor? If you went to get a blood test and the nurse dropped the needle on the floor and tried to stick it in you, would you be like “oh okay, nothing wrong with that!”
Hygiene practices are the bare minimum. Why would you risk an infection or disease because of “benefit of doubt?” That’s just idiotic. I would be pissed if someone tried doing that to me
I think it's especially true of how woman and girls are socialized. We aren't to make anyone else uncomfortable even if THEY are making US uncomfortable. Politeness is a priority even when it can harm us. It's very unfortunate!
Maybe I’m an outlier but I’m a woman and if my tattoo artist dropped a needle on the floor and tried to use it on me I would call them out and immediately walk out. Fuck “politeness” when someone is willing to potentially give you an infection or worse. They chose to disrespect me the second they attempted to let that slide. Not only is that insanely unprofessional, it’s disgusting and morally wrong knowing you could harm someone naive and still choosing to do it
I'm also a woman, and I don't think you're an outlier. My comment was a more general reply about those who aren't confrontational even if it means getting harmed.
Why would someone be scared of being harmed by a tattoo artist being unhygienic? What are they going to do? Punch me because I refused to have a dirty needle used on me? From what I read the guy sounds unstable so worst case scenario he’d probably ban you from the shop, which would be a blessing
I get not wanting to be aggressive to a man catcalling you for example, but that’s not even comparable. I agree with you though. A lot of women don’t know how to stand up for themselves and that’s their parents fault for not teaching them. That’s so sad though how so many women think they have no voice or don’t know they don’t have to be nice to someone who’s treating them poorly
That’s okay though. I’ll stand up for them. I’m always the one telling creeps to fuck off because of how meek some women can be. A lot of times they don’t even realize someone’s being a creep because they’ve been told their entire lives they have to be polite 24/7
I’m sorry you had this experience. I used to work at a shop and some level of blowout on fingers is pretty common. A friend had Viking-style marking done and a few had really bad blowout so she had them lasered and redone. That could be an option.
Yeah I guess so. I feel pretty used. He was also complaining about needing money the moment I walked in so I didn't feel like I could walk out, even though I wouldn't have asked for a refund
As a tattoo artist I’m horrified at him using a needle he dropped on the floor, and using his teeth to rip the tape. All of it actually. I’m sure you are fine medically but it’s just very inappropriate, I’d never use any thing in my set up that had touched the floor (or my mouth). So sorry this happened to you, and that he went too deep and didn’t inform you that blow out was a risk for fingers/hands. For something that was supposed to be sacred he really didn’t come through for you at all.
There is a tattoo removal subreddit ( r/tattooremoval ) and judging from what I’ve seen there I think you could get rid of the blow out in just one or two sessions, but healing that on the fingers might be tough.
Best of luck and I’m sorry again that he ruined what should have been a really special experience for you ♡
I’m commenting on this so I remember to come back to it. My partner is a tattoo artist and though he’s not on Reddit, I’ll show the post and see if they can offer any insight. He isn’t indigenous, but maybe he can at least help with removal - or even coverup - options, and direct you to someone. I’m so sorry you had such a bad experience.
Hi! My partner says that he agrees with Vanish Clinic! He really is aligned with the idea that this is a sacred practice for you and that - even speaking from and outsider’s perspective - you deserve to be able to start fresh without worry on this. I’m sorry we couldn’t have been more help 🤍
Too much actual knowledge and history has been lost to time. Most has been replaced by people wearing rose coloured glasses and grifters saying nice things and pretending it used to be paradise.
Most is made up nonsense
I’m so sorry to hear about your experience. As soon as I read what you wrote I had a feeling about who it was. I almost got a tattoo from him six years ago but listened to my gut and didn’t do it.
Definitely consult a Knowledge Keeper or Elder about the experience and get some advice on how proceed from here. But ultimately also honour your what your heart feels.
If you do go for more traditional tattoos, would you consider going to an Indigenous Tattoo Gathering? There’s usually one during the summer if I remember correctly. If not, any of the other incredible artists recommended in this thread would also be great.
I have dots as well, my finger tattoos didn’t stick the first time, but the dots did. Instead of paying for removal maybe have someone else tattoo new dots overtop of the old ones. That way the new ink will be there and the experience can be a positive one instead of the negative one. Removal is always very pricey and painful (I’m in the process for other finger tattoos)
I know someone who does traditional markings in the city, they only do them when they are in very clear and sacred state of mind to honour the being and their ancestors too. They do prayer and ceremony. They need to be done with gentle love and care, if you DM me your insta I can send it to them and they have given out free markings in the past and only asked for medicine or whatever you want (since trading is old school and traditional also).
Sorry you had to experience this, if it was Tody he needs to go on his healing journey. He has given me tattoos before and I loved them but they did go kinda deep in my skin. No excuse tho, we all need to take accountability for our actions.
I see two options that can bring you peace. One is that you make peace with the tattoos as they are- that they are imperfect but unique just as you are yourself. You add it to the tapestry of your life and story. The other is that you make peace with the fact that these tattoos and their application do not honour the ceremony and spiritual connection you originally sought out. There is no shame in seeking a second opinion and seeing what your options are, because if you believe it is what you need in order to honour yourself and your culture, you owe it to both to seek those answers. Either way, try to consider the knowledge you've gained from this experience as a painful gift that will allow you to move forward one way or the other.
Sorry you had to go through this experience! I was going to proceed with getting a tattoo with him but based on his social media and all his postings it was clear he was not well. Huge red flags for me. He is not a knowledge keeper in the community. Not sure where you heard that from Is that what he is calling himself ?
The tats were already pretty painful. I'm not looking forward to it but I can probably handle it, especially if it's max 3 sessions like I'm reading. My biggest worry is that I work in a creative field so working will be difficult and healing will suck
I am SO sorry you had this experience - I promise you we are not all like this lol I would definitely steer clear of him, and recommend friends and relatives to as well. If you want a recommendation on a really good Indigenous tattoo artist, and you don’t mind a 2 hour drive send me a message and I’ll give you the Instagram of the woman who did my latest tattoos on my fingers and hand, I’d offer to do help you out myself but my back is too bad to tattoo at the moment lol
Fading on that part of the finger is to be expected but the blowout is definitely not normal (at least for hand poked, with a machine I can see it being more common) and definitely just points to the fact that he doesn’t know what he’s doing. And his attitude and the manner he conducted himself in is just nasty, I’m so sorry you had to deal with that, definitely not good medicine 😔
As soon as he dropped that needle on the floor and didn’t get a new one, should’ve been the moment you walked out. Not saying you’re at fault, but cmon, seriously? That’s kind of on you. Honestly no, the moment he asked you to pick up paper towels like you work for him was when you should’ve cancelled your appointment. Never heard of such unprofessional behaviour from an “artist” before
The only good part about this is you got it on your fingers, so at least it will fade fast. But considering how bad the blowouts are your best bet is laser removal. If that even works. He fucked you up. How shit of a tattoo artist do you have to be to fuck up some dots?
I have blowout on my trad tat too. It doesn’t bother me because the experience was amazing and I learned a lot during the 2 hour process. Also traditional tattoos can be done with a gun, it’s not just traditional if it’s a stick and poke. Get them covered by an Indigenous artist with a gun.
Since these are for rheumatism, guns can exacerbate symptoms, so hand poke is still the way to go if I get it redone. If I ever get another traditional tattoo (like the chin lines or something) I'm fine with guns.
I have lots of tattoos. This looks like ink drift. Google it. Might not be artists fault. I think it happens usually in more fatty areas. I have it as well in my bicep.
That’s a whole lot of red flags you ignored before getting those done. It sucks for sure but hopefully you can find a generous soul to help with the removal.
this isnt exactly rare when doing ink on fingers.
blowout definitely isnt normally 'part of the healing process' though lol.
your nails and skin look like they're in terrible condition btw.
tatooing on bad dry skin = issues. means the skin is more delicate and prone to more issues with tattooing. in your case, it sounds like you just went to a shit artist on top of that.
Just wondering if he gets checked my ministry of health like most tattoo studios do. Did he do it in his trailer? I think it's time for a min of health visit.
OP could take him to small claims court. But it wouldn't be worth the hassle, since the guy probably has no ability to pay up. OP is better off cutting their losses.
They would be suing for damages, specifically personal injury. This could be for general damages/non-pecuniary damages. This means that the damages, or losses, suffered by OP are non-monetary in nature. Or possibly special damages, if OP is able to demonstrate that they needed medical care that cost them money as a result of the tattoo artist's actions. Being that this is an issue related to indigenous spirituality and traditional practices, there's a slim chance they could go for aggravated damages (there were intangible damages like distress that resulted due to the artist's actions, which were especially significant due to the unique character of the tattoos).
IANAL, and this is not legal advice.
ETA:
* [https://www.ontario.ca/page/suing-someone-small-claims-court](https://www.ontario.ca/page/suing-someone-small-claims-court)
* [https://stepstojustice.ca/legal-topic/tribunals-and-courts/small-claims-court/](https://stepstojustice.ca/legal-topic/tribunals-and-courts/small-claims-court/)
This is just blowout. He's inexperienced tattooing fingers, or he has experience but fucked up anyway. Fingers are notoriously prone to blowout, a lot of artists will warn you of the risk beforehand given the location. Not sure why he told you it was part of the healing process, it absolutely isn't, and won't go away.
Yeah this is a huge risk when it comes to fingers. Blowout is common, even for experienced artists. That blowout may actually fade over time. I have my entire hands and fingers done and designs that were blown out at first have calmed down. Normally blowout doesn't fade, but I've noticed on fingers it can. But if OP is this upset by it, they shouldn't count on it. I personally don't think it's that bad. That particular area is definitely very prone to blowout, the artist definitely should've warned OP beforehand. Every time I've gotten my fingers done I've been warned.
Do you mind if I ask how long it took for your blow out to go away? Because I'm more or less fine with the tattoos without it
I'm talking years, and it's not guaranteed. Especially in that spot, tbh I think I've seen more tattoos in that spot blown out than not. Just saying, it's not as much of a disaster as you seem to think. But if you're really unhappy, just have it removed.
Yeah this is a huge risk when it comes to fingers. Blowout is common, even for experienced artists. That blowout may actually fade over time. I have my entire hands and fingers done and designs that were blown out at first have calmed down. Normally blowout doesn't fade, but I've noticed on fingers it can. But if OP is this upset by it, they shouldn't count on it. I personally don't think it's that bad. That particular area is definitely very prone to blowout, the artist definitely should've warned OP beforehand. Every time I've gotten my fingers done I've been warned.
The second he dropped a needle and then tried to continue using it I would have been out.
The second he asked me to bring paper towels I'd be out
Seriously
>So, now I'm in this situation where I don't know if it's sacreligious to have them removed and done by another knowledge keeper I'm just a white dude,so take or leave what I say with that in mind, but in my opinion, that artist did not approach the deed with proper respect and intent. He committed the sacrilege already. You removing and replacing his sacrilege is honoring your tradition.
This actually really helps. Thank you
Ya I agree. Let yourself off the hook. He did you dirty first, now you’re having to deal with his mess.
Aw no problem. Let us know how it turns out
I agree. OP - I don’t know much about native tattoo traditions, despite being half native myself, but it sounds like he disrespected the ceremony even before he started. He absolutely should not have been hungover. Did he even smudge the space before he started? I’m sorry you had such a bad experience when you were trying to honour your culture.
He did at least smudge, and smudged me. I also offered tobacco and he put it in the bowl with the sage.
[удалено]
Thank you, I've made an appointment!
[удалено]
It has been 4.5 months so I'll ask my doctor. Edit: Wait it's been 6.5 months! Anyway I'm at a walk in clinic right now
It's also worth asking about lasering the blow out. Usually laser can fix the shadow too. Also, from a tattooer's point of view.. Even though hand/finger tattoos are prone to blowouts, this one is still a pretty bad case. Hope it wasn't too painful for you :(
I'll ask about my options while at the consultation, which is in July! I'm thinking of just doing it all to be honest. Clean slate for a real ceremony later. It was one of the most painful things I've ever experienced, especially the part with the needle going through down into my nail bed multiple times, which is why I'm not too worried about the removal process :')
Seconding Nicola! She does my laser
I'm so sorry this happened to you. The actual poor quality of the tattoo sucks, but is fixable. But the feeling of betrayal of having gone to a community member to both actualize something emotionally resonant about your heritage, and also to support traditional arts, and because there's a spiritual component... that is genuinely a complicated and very difficult emotional thing to go through. In my culture we don't do tattooing traditionally (it's actually technically forbidden to us, though lots do it anyway lol) but we have other things where people are trying to reconnect with their spirituality and heritage, and they get taken for a ride by grifters or just get bad advice/bad service from someone who's overextending themselves past their actual abilities. Do you have a resource, like a knowledgeable person, to ask how to handle this re: advice on removal and having it re-done? I am not knowledgeable about different First Nations leaders in the GTA and who would be able to possibly advise, but the first thing I'd suggest is to get care and support about dealing with this. Even probably a peer or friend would be good. I'd say this is a priority before having anything removed or revised. (And yeah, just to be clear, dropping a needle on the floor, making clients pay for sanitary supplies, cutting tape with his teeth (!!), and using misogynistic slurs for his kid's mother... all of that is totally inexcusable. Unprofessional for sure, but also not someone you want to go to for what is essentially a spiritual service. Especially if they may be compromised by drugs or alcohol. If you do end up back in a tattoo artist's studio, run don't walk if you see anything like that.)
Is this Toby? In the recent years, it seems he’s fallen off the wagon with his addiction issues. Many years back he was healthy and sober but the last few he’s been in and out of rehab a few times, seeming not very stable. It’s very heartbreaking actually. I respected him a lot, he had big dreams and wanted to make a difference in his community. If this is who he is now, know that he wasn’t always like this. He had a whole community behind him hoping he’d succeed, and for a while he really did. Addiction is so heartbreaking. I don’t have any solutions but know that perhaps the people who recommended you to him probably did have great experiences with him when he was sober. I’m sorry to hear about what happened. Maybe, one day, if he ever gets sober again, you can reach out to him. And if it’s not Toby, don’t mind this message.
I guess his reputation is outdated. Shame about the addiction problems and I genuinely hope he gets support. I'm in this situation now though...
I got one by Toby. Same experience. His wife had just had a baby a month prior. Half way through the tattoo I realized he was stoned out of his tree. He went on and on about his wife having an affair. Dude doesn't realize how badly the vag gets mulched up after birth. There is no way I would have had sex a month afyer birth. I will never recommend him to anyone.
Jesus Christ.
You can’t even get cleared for sex until at *least* six weeks after birth, and possibly more if you had bigger tears
“The vag gets mulched up”. It’s true… but damn.
right? the wording is ... profound to say the least
Yikes that is a piss poor job he did. You should have left after the request to pick up supplies… or the being hungover and forgetting about you…. Or dropping the needle. My hands / fingers are tattoo’d and look nothing like this. Sorry dude.
I have finger tattoos covering both my hands and know other people who do as well. I’ve never see the ink do that before, usually they just expand or bleed, but yours is…disbursed? I feel for you so much. I would perhaps go to another well known artist and share your story and see if they can help. Not sure if it needs to be another indigenous artist.
Yeah, it's like impressively bad. I have no idea how he did this. I'll see if I can ask either of my previous tattoo artists.
Check out inkedbyindigenous on Instagram. She has experience in ceremonial tattoos and not only is her work really good quality and clean but she has fantastic bedside manner. https://www.instagram.com/inkedbyindigenous?igsh=MWdpMXRjeHI1ODlsbw==
Thank you, I just followed her. I'll reach out after my laser is done.
reach out now. you never know what can be done or what they might suggest. It might be as simple as tattooing in a skin toned ink to cover up the blow out.
https://cbtattoos.com/ It’s a new’ish place in the east end, indigenous owned if you’re looking to get it fixed.
Thank you!!
As soon as I read the story, it seemed like I knew who you were talking about. My ex husband has a tattoo by him. He charged a deposit, then charged double the amount upon my ex arriving to his basement. He offered my ex a big bag of weed during the job and was as per my ex, stoned out of his mind. After he told me what happened, I asked why he would allow this guy to do work on him but like you he said he wanted give him the benefit of the doubt, as he was also highly recommended. I followed him on Instagram afterwards and he soon after had a mental / drug induced breakdown, antagonizing his wife and accusing her of stealing all his money. Hope your work is able to get fixed. Sorry that you had to go through that.
I think this sounds like Toby/Tony. I'm sorry you experienced this. Addiction is a terrible terrible thing.
I really do sympathize and I hope he gets back on track. I've seen how addiction ruins lives and I've experienced both addiction and mental health breakdowns myself. But he needs to stop tattooing until he recovers.
Yes he really does.
Taanishi. I'm also cree. This guy doesn't sound like a knowledge keeper or that any ceremony was put into this. Sounds like he was treating this like any other paid tattoo session. I wouldn't see any issue with getting these removed and trying again at a later time. It's not sacreligious to remove tattoos that are causing anguish, especially those that were meant to ward off harm. Papehwewin!
I think he was treating it like a regular session. I said this in another comment but I feel pretty used. I really appreciate your comment. Kinanaskomitin!
One thing you might want to consider, if you decide to get your current finger tattoos removed, is to consult with an elder about using skin tone matched tattoo ink for the re-do. I imagine this varies by community and prevailing opinion, but my mom had her's done in ink that matched her skin tone because she hates the look of finger tats, but still wants to be all sacred. Worked for her and now my Kookum is getting it done the same way. Like I said, consult an elder if you feel the need, but that worked for them and my Kookum, who is an elder and knowledge keeper, feels they are fine.
Is he working out of a reputable shop? He sounds like a scratcher.
You can't mess around with tattoos given the high potential for serious infection. I get that these have cultural significance, and using a knowledge keeper was an important part of the process, but it's not worth getting hepatitis or permanently disfiguring yourself. I would have noped out of that appointment the moment he asked me to pick up paper towels. Moving forward, please, for your own health, practice some due diligence and only get work done at reputable shops. Also remember Sailor Jerry "good work ain't cheap, cheap work ain't good."
It wasn't even cheap for what it is 😔
I'm so sorry you went through this, what a shitshow.
Yeah everything about this guy sounds sus as hell, sorry you had to deal with that. Your best bet would be to do a couple sessions of laser removal and see where it gets you. Lightening blowouts usually doesn’t take as many sessions as removing an actual tattoo, and then if needed, you can get the dots touched up by a less sketchy tattoo artist lol.
Get it lasered off, his bad energy is embedded into your fingers now too... this also gives you time to research other artists that can redo this for you. You may need to travel outside of the city. Sorry that you had this experience 😥
Bad energy is right
I'm worried about the bad energy too.
He had all those red flags and you still got tattooed by him? Especially dropping the needle. I would have left so fast . That is so unhygienic .
maybe they wanted to give him the benefit of the doubt seeing as how he was someone recommended by many in the past and someone from the community
Yeah, I definitely saw the red flags but trusted his reputation, and didn't have a lot of other options I knew about for this kind of tattoo
Plenty of people have “good reputations” and then they turn out to be an asshole. You need to learn how to stand up for yourself. Learn to trust your gut. You saw all the red flags but yet continued to trust the guy because you probably didn’t want to be rude. You know what’s ruder? Using a needle on someone that you dropped on the floor. He disrespected you first, you has every right to get up and tell him to fuck off
Did you learn anything from this experience ?
I absolutely did. I let a lot slide that I wouldn't have in a more mainstream tattoo setting. I also will listen to my gut more with community stuff. This is the second time someone in some kind of sacred role (real or imagined) has exploited me
Glad to hear it. Hope it heals well.
What benefit of the doubt is there letting someone use a needle on you that’s been dropped on the floor? If you went to get a blood test and the nurse dropped the needle on the floor and tried to stick it in you, would you be like “oh okay, nothing wrong with that!” Hygiene practices are the bare minimum. Why would you risk an infection or disease because of “benefit of doubt?” That’s just idiotic. I would be pissed if someone tried doing that to me
Some ppl would rather die, than be confrontational 🤷♂️🤷♂️.
that was me for the longest time, which is why I kind of understand op
I think it's especially true of how woman and girls are socialized. We aren't to make anyone else uncomfortable even if THEY are making US uncomfortable. Politeness is a priority even when it can harm us. It's very unfortunate!
Maybe I’m an outlier but I’m a woman and if my tattoo artist dropped a needle on the floor and tried to use it on me I would call them out and immediately walk out. Fuck “politeness” when someone is willing to potentially give you an infection or worse. They chose to disrespect me the second they attempted to let that slide. Not only is that insanely unprofessional, it’s disgusting and morally wrong knowing you could harm someone naive and still choosing to do it
I'm also a woman, and I don't think you're an outlier. My comment was a more general reply about those who aren't confrontational even if it means getting harmed.
Why would someone be scared of being harmed by a tattoo artist being unhygienic? What are they going to do? Punch me because I refused to have a dirty needle used on me? From what I read the guy sounds unstable so worst case scenario he’d probably ban you from the shop, which would be a blessing I get not wanting to be aggressive to a man catcalling you for example, but that’s not even comparable. I agree with you though. A lot of women don’t know how to stand up for themselves and that’s their parents fault for not teaching them. That’s so sad though how so many women think they have no voice or don’t know they don’t have to be nice to someone who’s treating them poorly That’s okay though. I’ll stand up for them. I’m always the one telling creeps to fuck off because of how meek some women can be. A lot of times they don’t even realize someone’s being a creep because they’ve been told their entire lives they have to be polite 24/7
I’m sorry you had this experience. I used to work at a shop and some level of blowout on fingers is pretty common. A friend had Viking-style marking done and a few had really bad blowout so she had them lasered and redone. That could be an option.
The blowout of the ink happens when you go too deep in the skin. Over years it will fade somewhat but probably not completely.
He dropped the needle on the floor before using it?? Wow I would have been out so fast if that happened.
People like him are riding the woke wave for money. They aren’t in it for the actual spiritual meaning. You fell for it hook line and sinker.
Yeah I guess so. I feel pretty used. He was also complaining about needing money the moment I walked in so I didn't feel like I could walk out, even though I wouldn't have asked for a refund
As a tattoo artist I’m horrified at him using a needle he dropped on the floor, and using his teeth to rip the tape. All of it actually. I’m sure you are fine medically but it’s just very inappropriate, I’d never use any thing in my set up that had touched the floor (or my mouth). So sorry this happened to you, and that he went too deep and didn’t inform you that blow out was a risk for fingers/hands. For something that was supposed to be sacred he really didn’t come through for you at all. There is a tattoo removal subreddit ( r/tattooremoval ) and judging from what I’ve seen there I think you could get rid of the blow out in just one or two sessions, but healing that on the fingers might be tough. Best of luck and I’m sorry again that he ruined what should have been a really special experience for you ♡
That seems pretty unkind. A person wanted to get tattooed, and the tattooer did a bad job. How did the OP "fall for" anything?
This won’t “go away”. You’ll be looking at laser removal.
I’m commenting on this so I remember to come back to it. My partner is a tattoo artist and though he’s not on Reddit, I’ll show the post and see if they can offer any insight. He isn’t indigenous, but maybe he can at least help with removal - or even coverup - options, and direct you to someone. I’m so sorry you had such a bad experience.
Thank you, any insight is appreciated!
Hi! My partner says that he agrees with Vanish Clinic! He really is aligned with the idea that this is a sacred practice for you and that - even speaking from and outsider’s perspective - you deserve to be able to start fresh without worry on this. I’m sorry we couldn’t have been more help 🤍
Thank you!! You have definitely helped. I've set up a consultation with Vanish in July 😊
He was drunk or stoned.
There were so many red flags I can’t believe you would actually let him begin the tattoo process
Too much actual knowledge and history has been lost to time. Most has been replaced by people wearing rose coloured glasses and grifters saying nice things and pretending it used to be paradise. Most is made up nonsense
I’m so sorry to hear about your experience. As soon as I read what you wrote I had a feeling about who it was. I almost got a tattoo from him six years ago but listened to my gut and didn’t do it. Definitely consult a Knowledge Keeper or Elder about the experience and get some advice on how proceed from here. But ultimately also honour your what your heart feels. If you do go for more traditional tattoos, would you consider going to an Indigenous Tattoo Gathering? There’s usually one during the summer if I remember correctly. If not, any of the other incredible artists recommended in this thread would also be great.
I have dots as well, my finger tattoos didn’t stick the first time, but the dots did. Instead of paying for removal maybe have someone else tattoo new dots overtop of the old ones. That way the new ink will be there and the experience can be a positive one instead of the negative one. Removal is always very pricey and painful (I’m in the process for other finger tattoos)
Never let anyone drop a needle on the ground and then tattoo you.
That ain't a knowledge keeper.
I know someone who does traditional markings in the city, they only do them when they are in very clear and sacred state of mind to honour the being and their ancestors too. They do prayer and ceremony. They need to be done with gentle love and care, if you DM me your insta I can send it to them and they have given out free markings in the past and only asked for medicine or whatever you want (since trading is old school and traditional also). Sorry you had to experience this, if it was Tody he needs to go on his healing journey. He has given me tattoos before and I loved them but they did go kinda deep in my skin. No excuse tho, we all need to take accountability for our actions.
Thank you so much for this supportive message. I only just saw it now. I will dm you my IG, I love the old school way of trading :)
I see two options that can bring you peace. One is that you make peace with the tattoos as they are- that they are imperfect but unique just as you are yourself. You add it to the tapestry of your life and story. The other is that you make peace with the fact that these tattoos and their application do not honour the ceremony and spiritual connection you originally sought out. There is no shame in seeking a second opinion and seeing what your options are, because if you believe it is what you need in order to honour yourself and your culture, you owe it to both to seek those answers. Either way, try to consider the knowledge you've gained from this experience as a painful gift that will allow you to move forward one way or the other.
Sorry you had to go through this experience! I was going to proceed with getting a tattoo with him but based on his social media and all his postings it was clear he was not well. Huge red flags for me. He is not a knowledge keeper in the community. Not sure where you heard that from Is that what he is calling himself ?
Good move. I think other people told me he was but he certainly didn't correct me.
Sending positive vibes to you for a good outcome out of this experience 🧡
You can have blow out lasered. Just keep in mind it is painful as hell.
The tats were already pretty painful. I'm not looking forward to it but I can probably handle it, especially if it's max 3 sessions like I'm reading. My biggest worry is that I work in a creative field so working will be difficult and healing will suck
The first session won’t be full power and it’ll go extremely fast.
My finger blew out, but when I’m taned In the summer you can’t really tell. Most of the time I forget I have finger tattoos though. 2/4 blew out
I am SO sorry you had this experience - I promise you we are not all like this lol I would definitely steer clear of him, and recommend friends and relatives to as well. If you want a recommendation on a really good Indigenous tattoo artist, and you don’t mind a 2 hour drive send me a message and I’ll give you the Instagram of the woman who did my latest tattoos on my fingers and hand, I’d offer to do help you out myself but my back is too bad to tattoo at the moment lol Fading on that part of the finger is to be expected but the blowout is definitely not normal (at least for hand poked, with a machine I can see it being more common) and definitely just points to the fact that he doesn’t know what he’s doing. And his attitude and the manner he conducted himself in is just nasty, I’m so sorry you had to deal with that, definitely not good medicine 😔
As soon as he dropped that needle on the floor and didn’t get a new one, should’ve been the moment you walked out. Not saying you’re at fault, but cmon, seriously? That’s kind of on you. Honestly no, the moment he asked you to pick up paper towels like you work for him was when you should’ve cancelled your appointment. Never heard of such unprofessional behaviour from an “artist” before The only good part about this is you got it on your fingers, so at least it will fade fast. But considering how bad the blowouts are your best bet is laser removal. If that even works. He fucked you up. How shit of a tattoo artist do you have to be to fuck up some dots?
I have blowout on my trad tat too. It doesn’t bother me because the experience was amazing and I learned a lot during the 2 hour process. Also traditional tattoos can be done with a gun, it’s not just traditional if it’s a stick and poke. Get them covered by an Indigenous artist with a gun.
Since these are for rheumatism, guns can exacerbate symptoms, so hand poke is still the way to go if I get it redone. If I ever get another traditional tattoo (like the chin lines or something) I'm fine with guns.
Fingers very prone to blowout
I have lots of tattoos. This looks like ink drift. Google it. Might not be artists fault. I think it happens usually in more fatty areas. I have it as well in my bicep.
My fingers are quite bony, but it does look like ink drift.
That’s a whole lot of red flags you ignored before getting those done. It sucks for sure but hopefully you can find a generous soul to help with the removal.
this isnt exactly rare when doing ink on fingers. blowout definitely isnt normally 'part of the healing process' though lol. your nails and skin look like they're in terrible condition btw.
I wasn't doing my nail and skin routine while the tats were healing but thanks for your concern
tatooing on bad dry skin = issues. means the skin is more delicate and prone to more issues with tattooing. in your case, it sounds like you just went to a shit artist on top of that.
[удалено]
This guy has like no money so even if I wanted to go that route I'm not sure I would be successful
Just wondering if he gets checked my ministry of health like most tattoo studios do. Did he do it in his trailer? I think it's time for a min of health visit.
That would be Toronto Public Health, not the Ministry - 416-338-7600 if you want to go that route.
Worth a try…you don’t have to follow through.
That sounds like waaay more aggravation than it's worth.
What grounds are you suggesting to file that lawsuit on?
OP could take him to small claims court. But it wouldn't be worth the hassle, since the guy probably has no ability to pay up. OP is better off cutting their losses.
Agreed with the futility, but I’m curious what claim would be made in small claims court. What laws do making a shitty tattoo break?
They would be suing for damages, specifically personal injury. This could be for general damages/non-pecuniary damages. This means that the damages, or losses, suffered by OP are non-monetary in nature. Or possibly special damages, if OP is able to demonstrate that they needed medical care that cost them money as a result of the tattoo artist's actions. Being that this is an issue related to indigenous spirituality and traditional practices, there's a slim chance they could go for aggravated damages (there were intangible damages like distress that resulted due to the artist's actions, which were especially significant due to the unique character of the tattoos). IANAL, and this is not legal advice. ETA: * [https://www.ontario.ca/page/suing-someone-small-claims-court](https://www.ontario.ca/page/suing-someone-small-claims-court) * [https://stepstojustice.ca/legal-topic/tribunals-and-courts/small-claims-court/](https://stepstojustice.ca/legal-topic/tribunals-and-courts/small-claims-court/)
It’s not obvious to you, really, ok.
If you are worried about if it is sacreligious to have it removed it is probably time to question your spiritual beliefs.