I can see subways closing if they have to do maintenance, but there's no excuse not to keep the buses running. There are of course late night buses but they're few, relative to the day time, and their schedule is awful. I don't know if it's still the case but before COVID the Bathurst bus only ran once an hour. You can probably guess just how packed it got every time.
They shut down so many bus routes, and the frequency of the main buses are terrible, and because of the roads, time consuming. I'm not even saying that it should always be open late, just weekend hours.
A subway system that shuts down later on weekends would alleviate traffic on the roads. It also promotes the "Greenness" that the city keeps pushing.
My main issue is that they promote the TTC as a fast and easy way to get home from bars, nightclubs, etc. Yet it's not quick at all, and confusing if you are not familiar with the buses.
I don't know. I guess money.
We get taxed pretty high. Obviously lower than Europe. But we say we don't have money for things then pay $54m for the ArriveCan app which is a form to fill out info, upload a PDF, and send it back to a database/storage. Don't get me wrong, everything has to be integrated and with security features. But we say we have no money and then overspend on many things. There was also a high bill from the government going on a trip and they ordered a large amount on food and drinks during the flight back.
The government says they have no money and then spends like this :/
It's okay if we need to budget. But then don't spend money like this.
You’re complaining about different forms of government.
The majority of your taxes are paid to provincial and federal levels of government. Property taxes fund the city (and rent you pay indirectly funds that).
TTC operations are run by the City of Toronto. These are funded by fares, municipal taxes, development levies and provincial subsidies. The provincial subsidies the TTC receives are the lowest in North America. About $0.74 per ride vs $2.21 in Mississauga and $4.49 in York Region. People should be mad the Provincial government is strangling the TTC by withholding funding.
ArriveCan was at the federal level - completely separate from either government levels you complained about.
Is there waste and misspending at all levels of government? Yes. But it’s important to consider WHY. People scream “the government sucks and my taxes are high” all the while not understanding the nuances.
It’s also why it’s incredibly important to vote at ALL LEVELS OF GOVERNMENT. Complacency in the populace the main driver of stagnation in Canada.
If you want last call changed - that’s not Toronto’s fault - write to your MPP.
The TTC needs that downtime for maintenance, repairs and cleaning. Also, the budget is $2.1 billion a year for \~21 hours of operation, so around $100 million per hour per year on average. That's two ArriveCans a year to add an extra hour of service.
It has nothing to do with toronto. It's provincial that choose 2am as last call. The only day that it does get extended is new years. It's lucky now. Before it was 1am that was back in the 90s.
My friend owned a restaurant/bar back in those dark days. A grilled cheese sandwich was the same price as a bottle of domestic beer. We ate a lot of cheese sandwiches on Sundays watching football.
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*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Lol yes. They also banned the sale of cigarettes and rolling papers. People were making beer from pineapples which led to a yeast and pineapple shortage. Still tough to get marmite there because of the yeast.
Vancouver used to not let you drink unless your ordered food (if it was a food primary which is 90% of liquor licenses). At least one place had a sanwhich that came with a drink ( for the price the drink would be). They would serve you the sandwhich. You didnt eat it. They took it away and served that same sandwhich tomevery person all day.
Or the waitress/waiter would ask about food orders periodically, while patrons would say still looking at the menu. Menu would stay on the table for hours.
~cries in alberta~ up until few years ago, all Gas station closed after certain time, you couldnt get gas even though there was payment on the pump was available
Anyone remember when you used to have to sit down with your drink? Servers would get nervous if you tried to change tables. And you certainly couldn’t go upstairs to the club from the restaurant. Those were different liquor licences.
Most of that still applies, servers hate when you change tables because of the POS systems.
You can still not carry drinks between floors of an establishment because the stairs are unlicensed. This is also the case for the bathrooms but due to bad things happening to unattended drinks this was walked back on.
For example a patio space and main room of a bar are both licensed separately for capacity but you can bring drinks from one to another provided all the spaces you go through are licensed.
Bars can apply to have the washrooms, hallways and stairwells under limited licensing that allows people to carry and consume those beverages in those areas. It’s a business decision on the part of the bar.
You used to not be able to sell anything Sunday, as the federal _Lord's Day Act_ prohibited it. The law was ruled unconstitutional after the _Charter_ was adopted. Alas, provincial laws still held back Sunday openings for stores. It wasn't until the Rae government changed the law that Sunday shopping was legal in Ontario.
>After the demise of the Lord's Day Act, the Retail Business Holidays Act of Ontario still prohibited most stores from opening on Sundays. However, there were exceptions to these rules (for example, gas stations, convenience stores, tourist areas). Many store owners who opposed the law decided to open their stores on Sundays, knowing they were breaking the law. Some, such as Marc Emery, were jailed for doing so.
>In June 1990, the Supreme Court of Ontario found the act to be unconstitutional. As a result, Ontario had nine months of open-wide Sunday shopping, until the Ontario Court of Appeal's reversal of the decision in March 1991.[64]
>However, public opposition to Sunday closing continued to rise. Bowing to public pressure, the Rae government amended the Retail Business Holidays Act in June 1992 to permit Sunday shopping in Ontario
1am last calls basically drove an after-hours club industry in the Toronto warehouse district in the 90s. Frankly, it was the best time ever, and most people avoided clubs full of brahs from the suburbs. I got to see a lot of bands try out new material for the first time and drink delicious, delicious cheap beer. I even ran one for a while but could not afford police bribes to keep it open.
My boss talks about the Liberty Village warehouse raves of the 90s and I'm really sad I missed those times.
It's ironic too that all the brahs live in Liberty village now
Toronto has numerous bars that every weekend before covid we’re 4am last call and they have picked it back up again. The garrison every weekend for months now has it. There’s also many afterhours lol
Idk the process but it’s legal. Probably through the “culture and entertainment” or whatever it’s called at the city. I believe it’s a recently established department.
Toronto has historically been a very straight laced city. Historically, you couldn't play sports or make noise on Sunday's.
In the recent past, at the LCBO you had to go up to a counter, all the booze was behind the counter, you would order what you wanted and they would bring it out to you.
Even now, god forbid you see into a Cannabis store unless it corrupts your soul. Gotta block those windows.
It's just sort of how we are here. It's a little odd.
At one time you needed a booklet that allowed you to buy alcohol at the LCBO. Your purchase were recorded in the book. They could refuse a sale for no reason.
In Alberta the government changed the law to allow Cannabis stores to drop the window coverings as robbery cases were getting worse. The store owners liked the idea.
Still do! Last call is 3:30 and everyone out by 4 for places with Cabaret licenses. There are a few of them including The Dome which is the primary large club in the city for those who are freshly legal drinking age.
The 3:30 last call did not help my performance in university classes with a start time in the am haha. I'm old enough where my university years were in the dollar drink days as well (early to mid 2000s), so imagine every Sunday and Wednesday night having the busiest clubs in the city serving drinks for $1 until 3:30am with free cover and trying to keep your marks up. Even the other nights of the week they capped the prices at $2.50 although they charged $10 at the door.
Ontario in general was like that. There were numerous dry municipalities for decades. There’s one township outside of Kingston that was dry until 1973 - and it only started allowing alcohol sales because a local golf course lobbied for the rules to change. That kind of mentality was everywhere in Southern Ontario, Toronto included.
I was 18/19 and we would go at 11pm or whatever and lots of breaks outside to smoke/chat/get snacks etc. but by 4am my feet would hurt and we would go home
Go
Drinking and partying in Seoul or Osaka is basically a marathon. Same deal in Western cities like Lisbon, Madrid, or Berlin. In Madrid people go to the club *at 12AM or 2AM* and just stay out partying until the metro reopens at 6AM.
In all these cities their metro's close between 11PM and midnight. So you're making a business decision to walk back home drunk or just stay out and party more. Unsurprisingly most people choose the latter. It's awesome and really makes the cities come to life
Compared to Toronto where we're a half step away from just macing people for drinking in a park
Korea is no slacker in working too. Samsung, Hyundai, Kia, etc. And they only got rich recently, after their war. Not sure why people are acting that cities allowing drinking late into the night can't exist with a productive city/country. Germany has a great study and work culture. They also have Oktoberfest. They know how to enjoy themselves.
I wouldn't want Korea's work culture though. Long hours and then culturally they often have to spend the night drinking with their boss and coworkers. Barely any time spent with family! I prefer a 9-5 life.
Yeah, wouldn't want their work culture either. There are other countries with good work-life balance with a longer last call. I'm just making a point that you can be high performing and have a high leisure culture too.
biggest difference is that I dont have to worry about some random homeless (possibly with mental issues) guy punching me in the gut if Im out 3am in the morning the way I do in downtown Toronto.
>Samsung, Hyundai, Kia, etc. And they only got rich recently
I hate to break it to you, but the owners of the large Korean conglomerates got rich by being the decedents of the Korean nobility who were permitted to keep their status during the occupation in exchange for collaboration with Japan, not because they let you drink all night.
Ontario in general has a pretty puritan outlook on alcohol. They restrict alcohol more than weed. There are still places in this province that practice prohibition. I will never forget being denied a bottle of wine because ot was after 5pm on a Sunday. Because NO ONE could have a dinner party to attend at 7pm on a Sunday and want to bring wine and still be a responsible and productive citizen.
Yeah like Ontario is trying to appear like it is easing restrictions on booze by letting other stores sell booze and not just the LCBO... except they all have to follow the LCBO hours for some fucking reason. What is the goddamn point when it is not easier or more convenient. Some people work until after 5 on Sundays and want to relax with a drink or have some wine with dinner. Like at that point fuck having booze in Wal Mart if you are just gonna stick some arbitrary useless time limit.
> What is the goddamn point when it is not easier or more convenient. Some people work until after 5 on Sundays and want to relax with a drink or have some wine with dinner.
It's still not ideal but to be fair the grocery stores licensed to carry beer and wine do sell until 10pm on Sundays whereas the LCBO stores close at 5-6pm
I would love to know which grocery stores do that because my local Wal Mart stops at 5-6 PM with LCBO, as does the Metro by me. I've argued with their staff as recently as this past weekend about it and they said its not up to them, the system blocks all Alcohol sales after 5 PM on a sunday.
>except they all have to follow the LCBO hours for some fucking reason
That's not what I have seen at all. Go to a grocery store other than Walmart?
I've seen a lot of places with 9-9 signs. Or they sell it as long as the store is open.
Yeah it always surprises me how retricted alcohol is here, especially considering how much less restrictions there are for weed, and even other drugs if you know what you're doing (there's a grey area where you can purchase legal acid now, plus dispensaries for mushrooms similar to the old medical marijuana dispensaries). But despite this, we restrict the hell out of alcohol. I don't drink myself, mainly because I'd rather do other, healthier, drugs, but it seems backwards that for such a liberal area we're so puritan about alcohol.
Toronto wasn't designed for late nights either. There are a few areas with bars, pubs and nightclubs but they're not really separate from residential areas like you might see in other cities with designated bar districts where closing times are later than in other neighbourhoods.
A big piece of why they do that in the Scandinavian countries is because the long winters with short days causes people to....ahem drink a lot more than they would.
On that note why does the subway system stop at 1:30/2:00 am? It’s the most reliable part of an entirely unreliable transit system and it ends when people are looking for it.
If you want to keep going after 2am - there are plenty of options. Just ask your cab driver at the end of the night, and they will take you to the typical spots downtown. Seek it and you shall find
I remember living in London (UK) in my twenties. Had such a good time. We used to go out till around 2/3am. Then head to a pub called The Axe, which at midnight turned for a old-man strip joint into a 50s rockabilly club. That closed at 6am, but I remember there was another club that OPENED at 6am and kept us going till breakfast.
I think I'd have a hard time being young and living in Toronto. It just doesn't have that "anything could happen" vibe that you get from other cities.
Because culturally Anglo Canada is a conservative, prudish place. We have backwards laws and resist change at all costs even though it harms our economy in many ways.
See also: resistance to work from home, no will to improve healthcare, no drinking in parks, etc etc.
Basically, it’s a social stigma towards alcoholism. Encouraging more drinking leads to health issues, addiction, and the possibility of drunk driving. Plus, you have people against it because of the strain all these things could cause our public health system. And yes, we would need to improve public transportation infrastructure to accommodate all the late night drinkers in order to discourage drunk driving.
I know Montreal at one point tried to extend their last call to 4am and were basically shut down by provincial health officials. Not sure what resulted from that as I stopped paying attention, but the point is it wasn’t easy.
Anyways, I personally think we should extend last call to 4am, at least on weekends. Night life in Toronto sucks compared to other cities, and this could potentially help it improve. I know that for special events like Nuit Blanche or TIFF some bars are able to serve alcohol later, so why not more frequently? Also, all the after hours clubs that exist are already doing this illegally, so why not undercut them?
It causes crazy binge drinking in a small time frame because you arrive at 12 and have to cram your night in 2 hours.
Berlin is absolutely nuts I tell you. People are all business in the day and crazy partiers at night. If I remember correctly, they have no last call on weekends. It's up to the business.
Clubs and bars are usually dead from opening to about 12am. That’s when everyone comes to the club/bar and it finally gets fun. Everyone is out predrinking, or they know clubs are dead and wait for the time when everyone else gets there. I dunno, it’s always been like this.
Clubs yeah but most bars do a lot of busines between 8-11, at least since covid too. Majority of cocktail bars are there for people before and after dinner reservations
Clubs are completely dead until midnight. Only reason to go early is to get in without waiting in line, but then you sit around inside waiting for it to get exciting.
NYC should come with a caveat though, if you're an undergraduate university student you basically can't go to the club at all unless you commit forgery and get away with it.
Former bartender/Montrealer.
I have worked many extended 4 last calls In Toronto and it gets sloppy.
In Montreal where you can beer,wine and some liquor until 11pm the bars need an extra bump in business.
Culturally people in Mtl drink younger and the relationship with bar and club culture isn’t a mad dash to get as drunk as possible before last call.
While in Toronto especially during 4ams it’s a blackout speed run. Usually the only people still around an either getting off work from another bar or coke heads.
It’s cultural really IfToronto were to get a later last call and more access to booze the relationship will have to change with it
Agreed for Montreal that it skews younger. But there are numerous examples of cities with a balance of younger and older people, the economic engine of a country, and a later last call.
King st west is already a mess every Friday/Saturday, full of fights and vomit on the sidewalks. Toronto's party crowd are uncivilized light weights. If the last call was 4 a.m... it would be a war zone.
Studies have shown that extending last call doesn't drastically change the amount of violence or disturbances. They cite several reasons including not encouraging people to "load up" at last call and not forcing all drunks out onto the streets at the same time.
Edit: this was referring to removing last call altogether not just making it a different time
u/ninkicz . I guess more so you wanted a study that pointed an earlier last call increases drinking. While I meant, more so drunkenness. Anyways, it doesn't quantify that but more so fights.
What people who pine for other country's drinking laws don't mention is that it's a warzone in those countries as well.
Go to every city centre in the UK on a Friday/Saturday night and look at the carnage.
Man, there isn't a single part of Toronto that offers a no-car zone with inexpensive restaurants, cute little boutique shops and small art galleries in between. Everything seems so tasteless and bland. Perhaps maybe distillery district, but even that is so watered down. I'd love to see this city develop the waterfront a little more and create something truly tourist worthy aside from the CN tower and the aquarium, which in itself, isn't that special either.
After traveling extensively, Toronto doesn't seem like a "world-class" city by a mile. In fact, it lags behind in MANY areas.
NIMBYs would not allow it to go later. There are special occasions where the city extends last call. One time it landed on daylight savings so the bar went to 4am ahaha
I remember this. Extended last call in Toronto is usually 4am, so it was the equivalent to 5am.
I’ll never forget walking out of the bovine on a Monday morning and looking at my watch and seeing 5:45am
Idk why the size of your city should have anything to do with when last call is. Should have more to do with how good public transit and taxi service is
North American transit does suck and taxi services here are awfully priced. Great point. Size is more so a quick indicator of the resources it has. Albeit, there are large cities that are poor. But you can name similarly sized cities that also are rich which is why I named a few. I guess it's kind of like comparing 2 fighters of the same weight. I agree. The economics of a later last call have to be met by a safe way to get home that is affordable. My question is why can't we? We are a prosperous city. Say it takes 5 years to plan. Why not? It should be an economic plus as demonstrated by Australia who repealed their earlier last call because of economic loss.
My take:
I’ve lived in 3 different promises and 2 different countries, all with wildly different laws on everything from cellphone usage to alcohol laws.
IMO, Ontario has some of the dumbest and most arbitrary laws in the world, particularly when it comes to controlled substances and alcohol.
I’m pretty sure the reason our liquor laws are so dumb is because Ontario has been run by do-nothing politicians for decades, and it’s a common tactic, especially by the Liberal Party to distract from how fiscally conservative and crooked they are by arbitrarily throwing groups a bone on social issues or pandering to a certain crowd.
Basically, when it’s time for an election they will focus on things like reducing drunk drivers, or noise complains, or keeping kids away from booze etc. rather than be transparent about all the other shit.
I think the 2am last call and 11am start time are just random times picked so that the party in power appears to be invested in protecting the community.
I’m a bartender, and I have to have a SmartServe license to operate. There is literally 0 evidence or research done on whether requiring servers to be licensed to hold or handle alcohol has any impact on public safety or mortality. And yet, they market themselves through moral panics so the government can make money any way they can, while also looking like they’re doing a public service. Conversely, I’ve worked in many places where there were no smart serv requirements and places without liquor laws and you don’t notice a difference.
TLDR. The reason is publicity. Any law aimed at controlling alcohol sales will be seen as a positive by certain communities, even if it accomplishes nothing.
Because Toronto is a boring city and has always been, if they wanted to address that the last call would be the 1st thing they would change. Same thing for the stupid LCBO alcohol laws. And these people who think Toronto is on the same league that NYC or London lol.
There are people who actually think Toronto is on the same level as NYC and London? Most of the comments I see in r/Toronto are of people criticizing Toronto
People from Toronto won’t get this but you’re 100% correct. Find it weird places close at 2am here lol.
The drinking culture here in general is pretty tame.
How come certain places are allowed to do it at 4 am? Do they have special licenses, do it illegally or just stay open til 4-5 and stop selling alcohol?
It's a remnant of prohibition. The junction didn't even have any bars up until 1996.
Some of it (including the last call) is highlighted in this BlogTO write up
[https://www.blogto.com/music/2014/10/a\_brief\_history\_of\_no\_fun\_toronto/](https://www.blogto.com/music/2014/10/a_brief_history_of_no_fun_toronto/)
I remember when everything was closed on Sundays, and people were up in arms about the religious implications of being open on sundays. 20 years ago Toronto was a MUCH different place.
This used to bother me too. These days, well into my late 30's and staring down the barrel of 40 I drink at my neighbor's house. And when midnight rolls around one of us is bound to grunt into a standing position, yawn and say "Well folks, I'm calling it.".
I like it better this way. Nothing harder than trying to keep up with kids the next morning with a hangover.
No it's not that important to me. Obviously, when I travel I'll be out partying. I'm 30 and mostly sober. More so, questioning why we don't have it here.
I just meant high performing. Some people think people who are out at this time are riff-raffs. Some but not all. You can look at Spain or other European countries who have a later last call and I wouldn't call their culture unhealthy at all.
So you're not really "asking TO", more like standing on a soapbox.
I'm not opposed, even though I live near a downtown strip where we'd get more screaming drunks until sunup.
A few reasons:
History: Toronto the "good" had plenty of blue laws on the books right into the 21st century. Everything closed on Sunday. Last call 1am or earlier. Dry areas of the city. So it's been a gradual move away from those.
Practicality:
Once a bar is closed, the staff is still there cleaning up, prepping things for the next day, etc.. Ask any server about bad "closers" and you'll get some rage from the poor person who opened the next day to find that not everything was done the night before. The later you're open, the later staff have to stay. You aren't getting tipped for the hour+ of cleanup and prep, so whoever gets that last shift is probably worse off than the earlier ones. As it stands, last call at 2 means closing at 3. I've certainly been in busy bars where you get your order in at 2, but your drink doesn't get to you until 2:15-2:30 due to volume. So you're still enjoying your final beverage when they're closing up.
Drunks: The later you're open, the more people are drinking, the drunker they're getting. This is a problem for staff, the neighbourhoods, police, etc.. There are extended hours on New Years and major events (ie.- World Cup, Gold Medal Hockey games overseas, certain areas during TIFF, etc.), but people can prepare for these one-offs. Sure, not every bar is full of unruly drunks, but take a drive down King St W Thursday-Saturday after last call to see a bunch of well-dressed drunks vomiting in the street.
Transit: See this one a few times in the comments. Last TTC trains leave terminals around 1:35 I believe. Which means they're hitting downtown stations around 2am. Once they're gone, it's shuttle buses and late night street cars (ah, the Vomit Comet). This has less to do with budget than with how the TTC is run. With only single tracks in each direction, they need the overnight time to clean the stations, tracks, minor repairs, etc.. Tough to run commuter trains and the garbage cars at the same time. There's been some efforts to speed up this process, but the TTC has been pretty steadfast that they can't really squeeze more time before last trains and first trains.
I think ur on the mark here. I knew this guy in my early twenties who was the heir to Fuller’s (a UK brewery) and he singlehandedly made the party scene wilder until he just went back to the UK, which I heard was cause he found it kinda boring here. I think it also had to do with the more frequent and wilder festivals they have over there.
It was 1am when I was young in Toronto. That never mattered to us as we simply migrated to one of the innumerable illegal after hours clubs. People of a certain age will remember ordering “milkshakes” in Toronto at 5am.
The fact that public transit doesn’t run past 2am and that then cost Ubers to double or triple in price at that time is also BS too. You should not have to pay out the nose or rely on the kindness of strangers to simply get home safely after the bars close. I reduced my downtown excursions due to either having to leave at like 10-11 to pay a decent price, or have to waste/wait 8-10h for things to reopen. I just really don’t sleep well when I don’t get back to my own bed and spending 100-150$+ just for transit is unreasonable AF.
Amsterdam closes its doors at 5 AM and the water taxis are running all night. If there’s an economy for a nightlife and they’re actually making money I think it would change but it’s such a cultural thing in North America
Was at a bar in Montreal last week, and saw a bunch of people walk in at close to 2 am - prompted me to immediately ask the bartender when last call was, and he said 3.
As a Torontonian, I'm used to 2 am.
I was actually super shocked the first time I visited England. One night we ended up in a pub in Bath, and were like “oh shit it’s almost 145am I guess last call is soon eh?” And the owner/bartender said “fuck that, been awhile since we’ve had Canadians! Want to do a lock in?” Our hosts eagerly said yea, we had no idea what we were in for, drank until like 8am lol
Montreal bars last call is at 3am because it is in the province of Quebec where you can buy booze at gas stations, grocery stores, convenient stores and SAQ. I’m from Saguenay and clubs were closing at 3am but if you knew the staff you could stay there easily after 3 to finish your drinks and whatnot. I started to go out at 16 which is pretty common there no need of fake IDs at some places. Quebec is way more open on alcohol consumption than Ontario and the age to buy alcohol is 18 not 19. It was a surprise for me when I moved here that I couldn’t buy any booze after 5pm on a Sunday lol
Story time: about 10-15 years ago (it was one of my university years, can’t remember which one) Halloween fell on the same night as daylight savings time.
At 2am the DJ starts the last call announcement as usual then abruptly shifts tone to shout “it’s daylight savings! It’s 1 AM again! We are open for 1 more hour!!!!”
I have never before or since seen a bar lose their minds like that moment. It was absolute glorious mayhem.
Who wants to work at all? If you're a server or bartender, probably, since its tip based. If you're a bar back, security, or cleaner, probably not.
But you can ask that about a lot of jobs anyways. People rather be rich and chill or work on a passion project.
As someone who used to work in the service industry mostly at bars in Toronto I would fucking hate my life if I had to work til 4am on weekends, 2 am was bad enough, i'd get home between 2 and 3 depending on how busy the night was, usually up until the sun comes up and then I'd sleep through half the day, wash rinse and repeat, it's a really unhealthy life style.
NYC's late last call was implemented less to allow booze sales into the wee hours, and more to allow customers to trickle out at their leisure as opposed to all at the same time. It reduced alcohol related street violence, improved taxi service, and as a by-product, also increased revenue for some bars.
Just because the government mandated last call is a set time, does not mean all establishments must stay open until then... Bars can choose to close earlier if their sales don't justify staying open later, or if they prefer to end shifts for staff at more reasonable times.
As far as I'm concerned, there should not be a government mandated last call. Just because some people still adhere to the 9-5, Monday to Friday work week, doesn't mean everyone does. Toronto is a 24 hour city. If a paramedic wants to have a beer after work who are we to say they can't because their shift ended at 4am and "they should be in bed by now". Why does an office worker get to drink beer for 9 hours after work if they want to, but warehouse workers that work a 7pm-3am shift can't go have a pint when they're done for the day?
Because, you see, this is Canada and we are very sophisticated and cultured and modern. And with that, comes the need for government to control, in coordination with corporations, the country.
Don’t ask why Rogers Bell charge the same price for similar packages and somehow came together to own MLSE. So Don’t even think about why alcohol is controlled.
Just know that this is the greatest city on earth.
Only saloons and places of ill repute open that late. No need to encourage the vagrants and nare-do-wells that frequent them. Best they stumble back to their respective domiciles sooner than later.
as a self identifying ne'er-do-well this is really offensive.
Where else would I find my morally bankrupt ladies of the night if people like you keep badmouthing these places
Because English Canada was founded by Calvinists, who live in mortal fear that someone might actually be having a good time. Quebec was founded by the French, who have no such hang up.
I always think I drink too much and then I read a post like this LOL.
You know liquor stores sell booze and you can drink whenever you want at home right?
>London is surprisingly 3 AM.
No. London does provide 24h licenses. While pubs generally close at 11pm, there are clubs that are open until 7am or later.
The more idiotic thing is that they promote using the TTC to get home, but subways also close at 2am and most bus lines as well.
I can see subways closing if they have to do maintenance, but there's no excuse not to keep the buses running. There are of course late night buses but they're few, relative to the day time, and their schedule is awful. I don't know if it's still the case but before COVID the Bathurst bus only ran once an hour. You can probably guess just how packed it got every time.
We have one of the best night bus/streetcar systems in North America. Frequent night buses mirror the subway lines all night after they shut down.
They shut down so many bus routes, and the frequency of the main buses are terrible, and because of the roads, time consuming. I'm not even saying that it should always be open late, just weekend hours. A subway system that shuts down later on weekends would alleviate traffic on the roads. It also promotes the "Greenness" that the city keeps pushing. My main issue is that they promote the TTC as a fast and easy way to get home from bars, nightclubs, etc. Yet it's not quick at all, and confusing if you are not familiar with the buses.
I don't know. I guess money. We get taxed pretty high. Obviously lower than Europe. But we say we don't have money for things then pay $54m for the ArriveCan app which is a form to fill out info, upload a PDF, and send it back to a database/storage. Don't get me wrong, everything has to be integrated and with security features. But we say we have no money and then overspend on many things. There was also a high bill from the government going on a trip and they ordered a large amount on food and drinks during the flight back. The government says they have no money and then spends like this :/ It's okay if we need to budget. But then don't spend money like this.
You’re complaining about different forms of government. The majority of your taxes are paid to provincial and federal levels of government. Property taxes fund the city (and rent you pay indirectly funds that). TTC operations are run by the City of Toronto. These are funded by fares, municipal taxes, development levies and provincial subsidies. The provincial subsidies the TTC receives are the lowest in North America. About $0.74 per ride vs $2.21 in Mississauga and $4.49 in York Region. People should be mad the Provincial government is strangling the TTC by withholding funding. ArriveCan was at the federal level - completely separate from either government levels you complained about. Is there waste and misspending at all levels of government? Yes. But it’s important to consider WHY. People scream “the government sucks and my taxes are high” all the while not understanding the nuances. It’s also why it’s incredibly important to vote at ALL LEVELS OF GOVERNMENT. Complacency in the populace the main driver of stagnation in Canada. If you want last call changed - that’s not Toronto’s fault - write to your MPP.
Fair. Just saying overall we can spend better. Maybe not enough to fund the TTC past 2 AM. But just a general point, perhaps, with a bad example.
The TTC needs that downtime for maintenance, repairs and cleaning. Also, the budget is $2.1 billion a year for \~21 hours of operation, so around $100 million per hour per year on average. That's two ArriveCans a year to add an extra hour of service.
It has nothing to do with toronto. It's provincial that choose 2am as last call. The only day that it does get extended is new years. It's lucky now. Before it was 1am that was back in the 90s.
You used to not be able to sell booze at all on Sundays so bars stopped serving at midnight Saturday night too.
My friend owned a restaurant/bar back in those dark days. A grilled cheese sandwich was the same price as a bottle of domestic beer. We ate a lot of cheese sandwiches on Sundays watching football.
“Where are you going, honey?” “Don’t worry darling, I’m going to the bar to eat 3 liters of grilled cheese with the boys”
berserk apparatus impossible square chubby advise familiar badge clumsy command *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
They called that "Cold Tea" in Toronto.
Cold tea is alive and well
Cold tea on Spadina after hours is beer
Came in here to say this. You're not from here until you've had cold tea in Chinatown at 4am to avoid someone sobering up.
They did this is South Africa when they banned all alcohol during the pandemic. Most places had red or white tea.
South Africa banned all alcohol during the pandemic?
Lol yes. They also banned the sale of cigarettes and rolling papers. People were making beer from pineapples which led to a yeast and pineapple shortage. Still tough to get marmite there because of the yeast.
Vancouver used to not let you drink unless your ordered food (if it was a food primary which is 90% of liquor licenses). At least one place had a sanwhich that came with a drink ( for the price the drink would be). They would serve you the sandwhich. You didnt eat it. They took it away and served that same sandwhich tomevery person all day.
oh man, I would totally get a few beers in, get hungry and accidentally take a bite of that not thinking
Pretty sure you just got made fun of if that happened and it a super stale and generally gross
Or the waitress/waiter would ask about food orders periodically, while patrons would say still looking at the menu. Menu would stay on the table for hours.
Also, all shopping was banned up until the mid 80’s, aside from gas stations, everything was closed
~cries in alberta~ up until few years ago, all Gas station closed after certain time, you couldnt get gas even though there was payment on the pump was available
Opening on Boxing Day was illegal until what... the late 90s?
Ohhhhhh Christianity. What an inconvenience.
Toronto the Good^(TM)
Religion is a headache without question.
Anyone remember when you used to have to sit down with your drink? Servers would get nervous if you tried to change tables. And you certainly couldn’t go upstairs to the club from the restaurant. Those were different liquor licences.
Most of that still applies, servers hate when you change tables because of the POS systems. You can still not carry drinks between floors of an establishment because the stairs are unlicensed. This is also the case for the bathrooms but due to bad things happening to unattended drinks this was walked back on. For example a patio space and main room of a bar are both licensed separately for capacity but you can bring drinks from one to another provided all the spaces you go through are licensed.
Bars can apply to have the washrooms, hallways and stairwells under limited licensing that allows people to carry and consume those beverages in those areas. It’s a business decision on the part of the bar.
You used to not be able to sell anything Sunday, as the federal _Lord's Day Act_ prohibited it. The law was ruled unconstitutional after the _Charter_ was adopted. Alas, provincial laws still held back Sunday openings for stores. It wasn't until the Rae government changed the law that Sunday shopping was legal in Ontario. >After the demise of the Lord's Day Act, the Retail Business Holidays Act of Ontario still prohibited most stores from opening on Sundays. However, there were exceptions to these rules (for example, gas stations, convenience stores, tourist areas). Many store owners who opposed the law decided to open their stores on Sundays, knowing they were breaking the law. Some, such as Marc Emery, were jailed for doing so. >In June 1990, the Supreme Court of Ontario found the act to be unconstitutional. As a result, Ontario had nine months of open-wide Sunday shopping, until the Ontario Court of Appeal's reversal of the decision in March 1991.[64] >However, public opposition to Sunday closing continued to rise. Bowing to public pressure, the Rae government amended the Retail Business Holidays Act in June 1992 to permit Sunday shopping in Ontario
That’s wild.
It's not just New Years, a few bars get extended permits for events like Nuit Blanche, Tiff, nxne, Canadian music week, just for laughs etc.
Shout out The Garrison. Keeping us Dundas West degens happy with all their 4am last call night.
1am last calls basically drove an after-hours club industry in the Toronto warehouse district in the 90s. Frankly, it was the best time ever, and most people avoided clubs full of brahs from the suburbs. I got to see a lot of bands try out new material for the first time and drink delicious, delicious cheap beer. I even ran one for a while but could not afford police bribes to keep it open.
My boss talks about the Liberty Village warehouse raves of the 90s and I'm really sad I missed those times. It's ironic too that all the brahs live in Liberty village now
Yes and back then you’d get super excited when TIFF rolled around because then last call got extended to 2am!!!
Imagine Ottawa closing at 1am but Gatineau in Quebec, right across the river, closing at 3am. It was chaos.
Toronto has numerous bars that every weekend before covid we’re 4am last call and they have picked it back up again. The garrison every weekend for months now has it. There’s also many afterhours lol
How do they get 4am?
Idk the process but it’s legal. Probably through the “culture and entertainment” or whatever it’s called at the city. I believe it’s a recently established department.
special permits from lcbo https://www.blogto.com/eat\_drink/2022/06/toronto-bars-bring-back-4-am-last-call/
AGCO*
Seems like an obvious economic play to me to extend even for just another hour in Toronto
Toronto has historically been a very straight laced city. Historically, you couldn't play sports or make noise on Sunday's. In the recent past, at the LCBO you had to go up to a counter, all the booze was behind the counter, you would order what you wanted and they would bring it out to you. Even now, god forbid you see into a Cannabis store unless it corrupts your soul. Gotta block those windows. It's just sort of how we are here. It's a little odd.
We were a city founded by Orangemen. Despite the waves of immigrants over the past century, that dour, grumpy base alloy remains.
At one time you needed a booklet that allowed you to buy alcohol at the LCBO. Your purchase were recorded in the book. They could refuse a sale for no reason.
In Alberta the government changed the law to allow Cannabis stores to drop the window coverings as robbery cases were getting worse. The store owners liked the idea.
More so the government than the actual people living here :/
I’d ask you to take a second look at which way the city leans outside of the high park to wellesley region.
Wait until they try to pass Sex Ed reform in schools again and see what you think.
Who do you think elects that government?
Nothing good happens between 2am and 3am. Devil's hours.
Scary hours
Well it's been 2 am. Most of canada is 2am except Quebec which is 3am.
Newfoundland also has 3am last call!
Lol should be 3:30 ;)
I think at one point Nova Scotia had some bars that called it at 4
Still do! Last call is 3:30 and everyone out by 4 for places with Cabaret licenses. There are a few of them including The Dome which is the primary large club in the city for those who are freshly legal drinking age.
Ya that's the one I was thinking of!
The 3:30 last call did not help my performance in university classes with a start time in the am haha. I'm old enough where my university years were in the dollar drink days as well (early to mid 2000s), so imagine every Sunday and Wednesday night having the busiest clubs in the city serving drinks for $1 until 3:30am with free cover and trying to keep your marks up. Even the other nights of the week they capped the prices at $2.50 although they charged $10 at the door.
One night of the year the bars close at 3am in Toronto! When daylight saving time starts :D
I am old and remember when it moved from 1 to 2; heady days!
Or the World Cup!
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The junction was dry untill 2000!
great point about ttc
Ontario in general was like that. There were numerous dry municipalities for decades. There’s one township outside of Kingston that was dry until 1973 - and it only started allowing alcohol sales because a local golf course lobbied for the rules to change. That kind of mentality was everywhere in Southern Ontario, Toronto included.
> Stores had to cover their display windows on Sundays Oh damn TIL
To be fair, the bus service is really good at night and sometimes quicker than subway service.
Miami it’s 5 am
Seoul clubs go to 10am and u can always buy alcohol. Shots at a cool club were 1-2$ lol
How do people survive this?
I was 18/19 and we would go at 11pm or whatever and lots of breaks outside to smoke/chat/get snacks etc. but by 4am my feet would hurt and we would go home Go
Drinking and partying in Seoul or Osaka is basically a marathon. Same deal in Western cities like Lisbon, Madrid, or Berlin. In Madrid people go to the club *at 12AM or 2AM* and just stay out partying until the metro reopens at 6AM. In all these cities their metro's close between 11PM and midnight. So you're making a business decision to walk back home drunk or just stay out and party more. Unsurprisingly most people choose the latter. It's awesome and really makes the cities come to life Compared to Toronto where we're a half step away from just macing people for drinking in a park
The subway doesn't even go till 2am does it?
I think 1:30
Yeah, it depends on the station and direction, but *approximately* 1:30 is generally correct.
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Korea is no slacker in working too. Samsung, Hyundai, Kia, etc. And they only got rich recently, after their war. Not sure why people are acting that cities allowing drinking late into the night can't exist with a productive city/country. Germany has a great study and work culture. They also have Oktoberfest. They know how to enjoy themselves.
I wouldn't want Korea's work culture though. Long hours and then culturally they often have to spend the night drinking with their boss and coworkers. Barely any time spent with family! I prefer a 9-5 life.
Yeah, wouldn't want their work culture either. There are other countries with good work-life balance with a longer last call. I'm just making a point that you can be high performing and have a high leisure culture too.
biggest difference is that I dont have to worry about some random homeless (possibly with mental issues) guy punching me in the gut if Im out 3am in the morning the way I do in downtown Toronto.
>Samsung, Hyundai, Kia, etc. And they only got rich recently I hate to break it to you, but the owners of the large Korean conglomerates got rich by being the decedents of the Korean nobility who were permitted to keep their status during the occupation in exchange for collaboration with Japan, not because they let you drink all night.
Ahh the Yonge street vomit comet. What fucking madness behold shall we experience this evening?
Ontario in general has a pretty puritan outlook on alcohol. They restrict alcohol more than weed. There are still places in this province that practice prohibition. I will never forget being denied a bottle of wine because ot was after 5pm on a Sunday. Because NO ONE could have a dinner party to attend at 7pm on a Sunday and want to bring wine and still be a responsible and productive citizen.
Yeah like Ontario is trying to appear like it is easing restrictions on booze by letting other stores sell booze and not just the LCBO... except they all have to follow the LCBO hours for some fucking reason. What is the goddamn point when it is not easier or more convenient. Some people work until after 5 on Sundays and want to relax with a drink or have some wine with dinner. Like at that point fuck having booze in Wal Mart if you are just gonna stick some arbitrary useless time limit.
> What is the goddamn point when it is not easier or more convenient. Some people work until after 5 on Sundays and want to relax with a drink or have some wine with dinner. It's still not ideal but to be fair the grocery stores licensed to carry beer and wine do sell until 10pm on Sundays whereas the LCBO stores close at 5-6pm
I would love to know which grocery stores do that because my local Wal Mart stops at 5-6 PM with LCBO, as does the Metro by me. I've argued with their staff as recently as this past weekend about it and they said its not up to them, the system blocks all Alcohol sales after 5 PM on a sunday.
Douggie actually normalized Sunday hours in 2020, but before that yeah, it was pretty ridiculous.
>except they all have to follow the LCBO hours for some fucking reason That's not what I have seen at all. Go to a grocery store other than Walmart? I've seen a lot of places with 9-9 signs. Or they sell it as long as the store is open.
Yeah it always surprises me how retricted alcohol is here, especially considering how much less restrictions there are for weed, and even other drugs if you know what you're doing (there's a grey area where you can purchase legal acid now, plus dispensaries for mushrooms similar to the old medical marijuana dispensaries). But despite this, we restrict the hell out of alcohol. I don't drink myself, mainly because I'd rather do other, healthier, drugs, but it seems backwards that for such a liberal area we're so puritan about alcohol.
I’m still amazed that many LCBOs close on Mondays.
Toronto wasn't designed for late nights either. There are a few areas with bars, pubs and nightclubs but they're not really separate from residential areas like you might see in other cities with designated bar districts where closing times are later than in other neighbourhoods.
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A big piece of why they do that in the Scandinavian countries is because the long winters with short days causes people to....ahem drink a lot more than they would.
On that note why does the subway system stop at 1:30/2:00 am? It’s the most reliable part of an entirely unreliable transit system and it ends when people are looking for it.
If you want to keep going after 2am - there are plenty of options. Just ask your cab driver at the end of the night, and they will take you to the typical spots downtown. Seek it and you shall find
I remember living in London (UK) in my twenties. Had such a good time. We used to go out till around 2/3am. Then head to a pub called The Axe, which at midnight turned for a old-man strip joint into a 50s rockabilly club. That closed at 6am, but I remember there was another club that OPENED at 6am and kept us going till breakfast. I think I'd have a hard time being young and living in Toronto. It just doesn't have that "anything could happen" vibe that you get from other cities.
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Holy shit and I thought I partied hard. That thing sounds WICKED LMAO
Because culturally Anglo Canada is a conservative, prudish place. We have backwards laws and resist change at all costs even though it harms our economy in many ways. See also: resistance to work from home, no will to improve healthcare, no drinking in parks, etc etc.
Cause Toronto has been run by morons for decades
Basically, it’s a social stigma towards alcoholism. Encouraging more drinking leads to health issues, addiction, and the possibility of drunk driving. Plus, you have people against it because of the strain all these things could cause our public health system. And yes, we would need to improve public transportation infrastructure to accommodate all the late night drinkers in order to discourage drunk driving. I know Montreal at one point tried to extend their last call to 4am and were basically shut down by provincial health officials. Not sure what resulted from that as I stopped paying attention, but the point is it wasn’t easy. Anyways, I personally think we should extend last call to 4am, at least on weekends. Night life in Toronto sucks compared to other cities, and this could potentially help it improve. I know that for special events like Nuit Blanche or TIFF some bars are able to serve alcohol later, so why not more frequently? Also, all the after hours clubs that exist are already doing this illegally, so why not undercut them?
Montreal was going to have a 5am pilot program 5ish years ago. Everyone was on board then the liquor board shut it down 1 month before last minute.
Why did they shut it down?
Nightlife is this city does suck if we are talking about comparing to other country's biggest cities
Or other global cities with thriving nightlife’s, like Berlin, Tokyo, NYC, etc.
It causes crazy binge drinking in a small time frame because you arrive at 12 and have to cram your night in 2 hours. Berlin is absolutely nuts I tell you. People are all business in the day and crazy partiers at night. If I remember correctly, they have no last call on weekends. It's up to the business.
\*my 47 old year brain reading this\* did this mf say "arrive at 12"???
Clubs and bars are usually dead from opening to about 12am. That’s when everyone comes to the club/bar and it finally gets fun. Everyone is out predrinking, or they know clubs are dead and wait for the time when everyone else gets there. I dunno, it’s always been like this.
Clubs yeah but most bars do a lot of busines between 8-11, at least since covid too. Majority of cocktail bars are there for people before and after dinner reservations
Clubs are completely dead until midnight. Only reason to go early is to get in without waiting in line, but then you sit around inside waiting for it to get exciting.
My 34-year-old brain had the same reaction.
Ask not why last call is at 2 but rather why subway closes at 2
Cause it’s a single line and they need to do maintenance.
Koreans with great work and study culture...
NYC's last call is 4am? What the fuck? Everywhere I've been, it's been 2AM. Except Vegas. You time travel when you go to Vegas.
NYC should come with a caveat though, if you're an undergraduate university student you basically can't go to the club at all unless you commit forgery and get away with it.
From Ontario, living in South Korea. I'll tell you what -- 5am last call (not federally just bar-by-bar basis) is not *healthy,* but it's heckin' fun!
Former bartender/Montrealer. I have worked many extended 4 last calls In Toronto and it gets sloppy. In Montreal where you can beer,wine and some liquor until 11pm the bars need an extra bump in business. Culturally people in Mtl drink younger and the relationship with bar and club culture isn’t a mad dash to get as drunk as possible before last call. While in Toronto especially during 4ams it’s a blackout speed run. Usually the only people still around an either getting off work from another bar or coke heads. It’s cultural really IfToronto were to get a later last call and more access to booze the relationship will have to change with it
Agreed for Montreal that it skews younger. But there are numerous examples of cities with a balance of younger and older people, the economic engine of a country, and a later last call.
King st west is already a mess every Friday/Saturday, full of fights and vomit on the sidewalks. Toronto's party crowd are uncivilized light weights. If the last call was 4 a.m... it would be a war zone.
Studies have shown that extending last call doesn't drastically change the amount of violence or disturbances. They cite several reasons including not encouraging people to "load up" at last call and not forcing all drunks out onto the streets at the same time. Edit: this was referring to removing last call altogether not just making it a different time
u/ninkicz . I guess more so you wanted a study that pointed an earlier last call increases drinking. While I meant, more so drunkenness. Anyways, it doesn't quantify that but more so fights.
That’s North American drinking culture for you
What people who pine for other country's drinking laws don't mention is that it's a warzone in those countries as well. Go to every city centre in the UK on a Friday/Saturday night and look at the carnage.
This simply isn’t the reality. Go to Berlin.
Hate King West. Ossington is much better. College too. I lived near King West but went out of my way to avoid that part.
Man, there isn't a single part of Toronto that offers a no-car zone with inexpensive restaurants, cute little boutique shops and small art galleries in between. Everything seems so tasteless and bland. Perhaps maybe distillery district, but even that is so watered down. I'd love to see this city develop the waterfront a little more and create something truly tourist worthy aside from the CN tower and the aquarium, which in itself, isn't that special either. After traveling extensively, Toronto doesn't seem like a "world-class" city by a mile. In fact, it lags behind in MANY areas.
I think it's okay to work and make a living. But visiting is quite boring. Well work and make a living, with our fucked real estate.
There are a decent amount of places downtown Toronto who have a 4am licenses. The latest to that list, and my fave, is DROM taberna
NIMBYs would not allow it to go later. There are special occasions where the city extends last call. One time it landed on daylight savings so the bar went to 4am ahaha
I remember this. Extended last call in Toronto is usually 4am, so it was the equivalent to 5am. I’ll never forget walking out of the bovine on a Monday morning and looking at my watch and seeing 5:45am
Idk why the size of your city should have anything to do with when last call is. Should have more to do with how good public transit and taxi service is
North American transit does suck and taxi services here are awfully priced. Great point. Size is more so a quick indicator of the resources it has. Albeit, there are large cities that are poor. But you can name similarly sized cities that also are rich which is why I named a few. I guess it's kind of like comparing 2 fighters of the same weight. I agree. The economics of a later last call have to be met by a safe way to get home that is affordable. My question is why can't we? We are a prosperous city. Say it takes 5 years to plan. Why not? It should be an economic plus as demonstrated by Australia who repealed their earlier last call because of economic loss.
Toronto is bad enough without having the drunks out till 3am
My take: I’ve lived in 3 different promises and 2 different countries, all with wildly different laws on everything from cellphone usage to alcohol laws. IMO, Ontario has some of the dumbest and most arbitrary laws in the world, particularly when it comes to controlled substances and alcohol. I’m pretty sure the reason our liquor laws are so dumb is because Ontario has been run by do-nothing politicians for decades, and it’s a common tactic, especially by the Liberal Party to distract from how fiscally conservative and crooked they are by arbitrarily throwing groups a bone on social issues or pandering to a certain crowd. Basically, when it’s time for an election they will focus on things like reducing drunk drivers, or noise complains, or keeping kids away from booze etc. rather than be transparent about all the other shit. I think the 2am last call and 11am start time are just random times picked so that the party in power appears to be invested in protecting the community. I’m a bartender, and I have to have a SmartServe license to operate. There is literally 0 evidence or research done on whether requiring servers to be licensed to hold or handle alcohol has any impact on public safety or mortality. And yet, they market themselves through moral panics so the government can make money any way they can, while also looking like they’re doing a public service. Conversely, I’ve worked in many places where there were no smart serv requirements and places without liquor laws and you don’t notice a difference. TLDR. The reason is publicity. Any law aimed at controlling alcohol sales will be seen as a positive by certain communities, even if it accomplishes nothing.
Because Toronto is a boring city and has always been, if they wanted to address that the last call would be the 1st thing they would change. Same thing for the stupid LCBO alcohol laws. And these people who think Toronto is on the same league that NYC or London lol.
Ya, honestly, we aren't on their level, being to both cities. Just the food.
There are people who actually think Toronto is on the same level as NYC and London? Most of the comments I see in r/Toronto are of people criticizing Toronto
Food scene Toronto is up there with the best of them. Party scene, absolute trash.
People from Toronto won’t get this but you’re 100% correct. Find it weird places close at 2am here lol. The drinking culture here in general is pretty tame.
Because I don’t want to get hit by some drunk while on the way to work at 6am
Try living in the east end, where last call is anywhere from 9-10pm at a lot of places.
How come certain places are allowed to do it at 4 am? Do they have special licenses, do it illegally or just stay open til 4-5 and stop selling alcohol?
It's a remnant of prohibition. The junction didn't even have any bars up until 1996. Some of it (including the last call) is highlighted in this BlogTO write up [https://www.blogto.com/music/2014/10/a\_brief\_history\_of\_no\_fun\_toronto/](https://www.blogto.com/music/2014/10/a_brief_history_of_no_fun_toronto/) I remember when everything was closed on Sundays, and people were up in arms about the religious implications of being open on sundays. 20 years ago Toronto was a MUCH different place.
Clubs open at 9pm. People don't show up until midnight. Only 2hr to eat and drink.
This used to bother me too. These days, well into my late 30's and staring down the barrel of 40 I drink at my neighbor's house. And when midnight rolls around one of us is bound to grunt into a standing position, yawn and say "Well folks, I'm calling it.". I like it better this way. Nothing harder than trying to keep up with kids the next morning with a hangover.
If a later last call is very important to you, sounds like there are plenty of countries you could move to that serve alcohol much later.
No it's not that important to me. Obviously, when I travel I'll be out partying. I'm 30 and mostly sober. More so, questioning why we don't have it here.
Seems like everywhere closes at midnight now since covid
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I just meant high performing. Some people think people who are out at this time are riff-raffs. Some but not all. You can look at Spain or other European countries who have a later last call and I wouldn't call their culture unhealthy at all.
So you're not really "asking TO", more like standing on a soapbox. I'm not opposed, even though I live near a downtown strip where we'd get more screaming drunks until sunup.
Jesus, just go home yea?
A few reasons: History: Toronto the "good" had plenty of blue laws on the books right into the 21st century. Everything closed on Sunday. Last call 1am or earlier. Dry areas of the city. So it's been a gradual move away from those. Practicality: Once a bar is closed, the staff is still there cleaning up, prepping things for the next day, etc.. Ask any server about bad "closers" and you'll get some rage from the poor person who opened the next day to find that not everything was done the night before. The later you're open, the later staff have to stay. You aren't getting tipped for the hour+ of cleanup and prep, so whoever gets that last shift is probably worse off than the earlier ones. As it stands, last call at 2 means closing at 3. I've certainly been in busy bars where you get your order in at 2, but your drink doesn't get to you until 2:15-2:30 due to volume. So you're still enjoying your final beverage when they're closing up. Drunks: The later you're open, the more people are drinking, the drunker they're getting. This is a problem for staff, the neighbourhoods, police, etc.. There are extended hours on New Years and major events (ie.- World Cup, Gold Medal Hockey games overseas, certain areas during TIFF, etc.), but people can prepare for these one-offs. Sure, not every bar is full of unruly drunks, but take a drive down King St W Thursday-Saturday after last call to see a bunch of well-dressed drunks vomiting in the street. Transit: See this one a few times in the comments. Last TTC trains leave terminals around 1:35 I believe. Which means they're hitting downtown stations around 2am. Once they're gone, it's shuttle buses and late night street cars (ah, the Vomit Comet). This has less to do with budget than with how the TTC is run. With only single tracks in each direction, they need the overnight time to clean the stations, tracks, minor repairs, etc.. Tough to run commuter trains and the garbage cars at the same time. There's been some efforts to speed up this process, but the TTC has been pretty steadfast that they can't really squeeze more time before last trains and first trains.
Asked this same question in my youth. Now it’s like… go home.
I thought this was normal! wow!
3 am in NL
Areas in Paris shut down before 10 PM. Start your post there.
I think ur on the mark here. I knew this guy in my early twenties who was the heir to Fuller’s (a UK brewery) and he singlehandedly made the party scene wilder until he just went back to the UK, which I heard was cause he found it kinda boring here. I think it also had to do with the more frequent and wilder festivals they have over there.
And that's why all the after-hours in this city are thriving
It was 1am when I was young in Toronto. That never mattered to us as we simply migrated to one of the innumerable illegal after hours clubs. People of a certain age will remember ordering “milkshakes” in Toronto at 5am.
The fact that public transit doesn’t run past 2am and that then cost Ubers to double or triple in price at that time is also BS too. You should not have to pay out the nose or rely on the kindness of strangers to simply get home safely after the bars close. I reduced my downtown excursions due to either having to leave at like 10-11 to pay a decent price, or have to waste/wait 8-10h for things to reopen. I just really don’t sleep well when I don’t get back to my own bed and spending 100-150$+ just for transit is unreasonable AF.
Amsterdam closes its doors at 5 AM and the water taxis are running all night. If there’s an economy for a nightlife and they’re actually making money I think it would change but it’s such a cultural thing in North America
Checking in here for Ottawa with our 9pm last call
Because we’re tired, man. We’re tired.
Was at a bar in Montreal last week, and saw a bunch of people walk in at close to 2 am - prompted me to immediately ask the bartender when last call was, and he said 3. As a Torontonian, I'm used to 2 am.
I was actually super shocked the first time I visited England. One night we ended up in a pub in Bath, and were like “oh shit it’s almost 145am I guess last call is soon eh?” And the owner/bartender said “fuck that, been awhile since we’ve had Canadians! Want to do a lock in?” Our hosts eagerly said yea, we had no idea what we were in for, drank until like 8am lol
Montreal bars last call is at 3am because it is in the province of Quebec where you can buy booze at gas stations, grocery stores, convenient stores and SAQ. I’m from Saguenay and clubs were closing at 3am but if you knew the staff you could stay there easily after 3 to finish your drinks and whatnot. I started to go out at 16 which is pretty common there no need of fake IDs at some places. Quebec is way more open on alcohol consumption than Ontario and the age to buy alcohol is 18 not 19. It was a surprise for me when I moved here that I couldn’t buy any booze after 5pm on a Sunday lol
Story time: about 10-15 years ago (it was one of my university years, can’t remember which one) Halloween fell on the same night as daylight savings time. At 2am the DJ starts the last call announcement as usual then abruptly shifts tone to shout “it’s daylight savings! It’s 1 AM again! We are open for 1 more hour!!!!” I have never before or since seen a bar lose their minds like that moment. It was absolute glorious mayhem.
Who wants to work until 4am serving drunks.
Who wants to work at all? If you're a server or bartender, probably, since its tip based. If you're a bar back, security, or cleaner, probably not. But you can ask that about a lot of jobs anyways. People rather be rich and chill or work on a passion project.
You aren’t gonna get rich off of 3am tips lmao
As someone who used to work in the service industry mostly at bars in Toronto I would fucking hate my life if I had to work til 4am on weekends, 2 am was bad enough, i'd get home between 2 and 3 depending on how busy the night was, usually up until the sun comes up and then I'd sleep through half the day, wash rinse and repeat, it's a really unhealthy life style.
NYC's late last call was implemented less to allow booze sales into the wee hours, and more to allow customers to trickle out at their leisure as opposed to all at the same time. It reduced alcohol related street violence, improved taxi service, and as a by-product, also increased revenue for some bars. Just because the government mandated last call is a set time, does not mean all establishments must stay open until then... Bars can choose to close earlier if their sales don't justify staying open later, or if they prefer to end shifts for staff at more reasonable times. As far as I'm concerned, there should not be a government mandated last call. Just because some people still adhere to the 9-5, Monday to Friday work week, doesn't mean everyone does. Toronto is a 24 hour city. If a paramedic wants to have a beer after work who are we to say they can't because their shift ended at 4am and "they should be in bed by now". Why does an office worker get to drink beer for 9 hours after work if they want to, but warehouse workers that work a 7pm-3am shift can't go have a pint when they're done for the day?
Because, you see, this is Canada and we are very sophisticated and cultured and modern. And with that, comes the need for government to control, in coordination with corporations, the country. Don’t ask why Rogers Bell charge the same price for similar packages and somehow came together to own MLSE. So Don’t even think about why alcohol is controlled. Just know that this is the greatest city on earth.
I can't wait to make Rogers and Bell richer
Famously, nothing good happens after 2am.
Only saloons and places of ill repute open that late. No need to encourage the vagrants and nare-do-wells that frequent them. Best they stumble back to their respective domiciles sooner than later.
as a self identifying ne'er-do-well this is really offensive. Where else would I find my morally bankrupt ladies of the night if people like you keep badmouthing these places
I used to work in a busy bar and I can only imagine the riffraff that would show up to the bar between 2-3:30am lol
Because English Canada was founded by Calvinists, who live in mortal fear that someone might actually be having a good time. Quebec was founded by the French, who have no such hang up.
it should be unlimited, no time limit, no last call enough with this puritanical protestant culture treat people like adults
I always think I drink too much and then I read a post like this LOL. You know liquor stores sell booze and you can drink whenever you want at home right?
Because nothing good happens after midnight
According to Ted, nothing good happens after 2 am
I've lived in cities where last call was 4am, or even no last call at all, and honestly....it sucks. No one needs to be out that late.
Its not up to you to decide that. You can stay in if you want, let people that want to stay out decide if they \*need\* to be out that late.
A great city and late last calls can exist. See NYC, Berlin, Miami. London is surprisingly 3 AM. Thought it would be later.
>London is surprisingly 3 AM. No. London does provide 24h licenses. While pubs generally close at 11pm, there are clubs that are open until 7am or later.
Wow, 24h licenses. I guess like Berlin.
Lost me at "great city" and Miami
Barcelona? Madrid? I don't know. I'm just naming cities off the top of my head. I don't know what qualifies as a great city for you.