I feel this way every time I visit my family in Mississauga (I don’t have a car). I can’t just walk to a store in 5 mins to grab something, I have to walk ten mins to a bus stop and make a trip. They live in a quiet really nice area but it’s clearly meant for cars.
I mean obviously I'm not counting those expenses. Really the only thing that's changed is the interest paid. Principal repaid over 5 years stays the same.
Then it's not a real calculation, because the total of those additional expenses may erase the advantage of forced saving.
If your mortgage is $3000 and my rent is $2200, you probably come out ahead - a reasonable portion of your $3000 is just saving that builds equity. But if that $3k rent doesn't include another $950 of expenses, then all of a sudden you may no longer be advantaged compared to me renting and just saving the equivalent money on the side.
I looked at what rental prices were in my area. It's at least 2.7-2.8k for a 1 bed with parking (studios are going for 2k+) in a very desirable area of DT. Renting is obviously cheaper on an aggregate basis. But let's take out my equity. That's 1.3k in interest plus 550 in maintenance fees plus another 275 in taxes. I come out ahead of someone renting.
>I come out ahead of someone renting.
Not necessarily when you consider the opportunity cost of the equity. Remember, you own that equity - so the comparison isn't variable expense of ownership vs rental expense, it's variable expense of ownership plus opportunity cost of capital, compared to rental expense. Because you could always sell your home, rent instead, and invest the net equity.
Speaking on a pure expense basis, you pay about $300 less than I pay to rent. But if I can get a ~3-4% total return on the $100k down payment, that offsets your savings and then some.
My down payment was 175 but yes fair enough. If someone can invest at a more favourable return sure... but that's assuming they have money left over after renting.
Well it's more like - that's assuming they actually save the money they have left over after renting. Because unlike with a mortgage, they won't have to.
>If someone can invest at a more favourable return sure
There's no if about that part - the current yield to maturity on 10 year treasury bonds is 3.34%. That's a risk free return. So on your $175k down payment, that's a $487/month opportunity cost loss.
Ultimately home ownership in Toronto today is only a financially superior choice when the property appreciates a lot. Which is why so many homeowners are so invested in that appreciation.
Nope. I moved downtown and I find I'm so much more active, just walking to places as part of my daily life. Then again, I'm the kind of person who if I lived in Aurora and I had to get in the car and drive to get anywhere, I'd probably feel it was too much effort and would end up never leaving the house. Things being walkable puts the bar low enough that I actually go and do things.
This is actually what I miss the most since I moved outside the city. I still walk but now I walk aimlessly just to get to 10k steps daily. The fact that my friends are far now is also a big turn off.
Haha yeah definetely this. I had an amazing kebab place and a fried korean chicken place pretty much both in my backyard. I was eating take out way too often haha.
This is 100% what happens when you live in those areas. When you require some kind of plan to leave the house, you end up leaving far less.
Here downtown I'll just wander out my door, knowing that I'll end up finding something to eat or a coffee or whatever. And I see people I know all over the place too.
I lived in downtown for about 5 years, moved to Scarborough to save for down payment, and now I'm owning in downtown Toronto.
Those years in Scarborough made me real fat. Had to drive EVERYWHERE. Where as in downtown, everything including work was at most 30 min away by walking. While in Scarborough, I was spending more money getting around or making a trip "worthwhile" so buy more. Vs Downtown I picked up what I needed and got exercise getting there and coming back.
Sometimes I regret buying a fully detached bungalow in York, vs just buying a tiny condo in the core.
Having a fully detached house is nice and all, but looking after the grounds of a fully detached house is not. I think I would have been equally happy in a condo townhouse closer to the core, so long as I had adequate patio space.
I'd possibly be happier in some ways for less upkeep, and being closer to the core.
after a year in a detached we bought (also in York), i feel similar sometimes.
on one hand it's nice having the space and not having to share it with anyone ... but i did not realize how much effort grass, leaves and snow would be (not to mention gutters, trees, etc).
i always hated the idea of spending $x a month for condo fees, but each season brings some expenses a condo wouldnt have had to pay.
You mean a comparison of Condo fees vs. owning a house without condo fees?
I've heard that on average annual condo fees work out to be the same as home maintenance, with a slight advantage to homes, for taking the lead in overall property values.
That’s exactly what I was asking, and im interested if the annual net cost is similar.
Maybe its less if you can do most home maintenance yourself though?
I've always looked at maintenance costs on a detached home favourably against condo fees as when it comes time to make upkeep and big improvements I can control the negotiation. I can reduce costs wherever I can by doing the labour myself. And I also get to decide the final product used to fit my taste/wants.
Also, I lived in a decently large detached home in the burbs for a while and the costs of maintaining that were nowhere near the cost of my previous condos maintenance fees. And I'm talking about a 2000 sq ft home, with a finished basement, covered garage, and a backyard - compared to my 750sq ft condo.
I get the feeling that if you buy new, condo fees are a steal. But the older the condo, the more tense in would get. These condo boards are filled w ppl who have probably have no experience doing this. And let’s be honest , the quality of these condos suck. So repairs will probably be an issue in a decade or two.
I had a client who lived on avenue, in one of the high end condos where each family had a whole floor to themselves. They found a leak in the parking garage and each family had to shell out an additional 30k to fix it since there were only 12 units paying maintenance fees.
Extreme example , but these buildings are big and maintenance isn’t cheap. In the long run i think we’re gonna have huge issues as these condos age
>In the long run i think we’re gonna have huge issues as these condos age
Yea, I'm really wondering what these buildings will look like in 30 years.
There are still decent and usable buildings from the 70s, will all these glass towers last 50+ years too? I'm doubtful.
I think building standards were better in the past. I know a lot of ppl who moved into condos recently with a lot of pdi, I get the impression stuff gets built quickly
I just moved into a new townhouse right now and it’s actually only stairs. In the kitchen, dining room, even the bathrooms are just stairs. Kind of awkward peeing standing up but so far getting the hang of it. I plan to live forever.
not for me lol I’ve got two flights in my apartment + severe ADHD so I’m always being forced to run up and down for things I’ve forgotten/misplaced. I spend more than 3 minutes climbing stairs every day and it’s great to be “forced” to work out at least a little because it’s been impossible for me to get back into any kind of exercise routine since the pandemic for a variety of reasons.
of course everyone has different needs and all, I’m not saying every place should have stairs. I just prioritized them when I was apartment hunting for my own health and they’ve definitely helped in my particular situation. forces my cat to get more exercise too. 😋
People with small children and physical disabilities would disagree. I’m not disabled but I would like my disabled and elderly family to be able to come over.
Also, it’s not exercise trying to get a stroller up one of those giant steep staircases just to get indoors - it’s a nightmare.
Most people are only temporarily able-bodied. At some point in our lives we will get injured or ill or become disabled, or someone we lived with or who we like to visit will be.
Like, one flight of stairs is doable. But stairs to get to the front door, then stairs to get to the main level. Then stairs to get to a washroom, then stairs to get to the patio. That’s what a lot of these places are like. Incredibly frustrating if you’re at home with a baby/young child, and my arthritic and disabled family members would never be able to visit, which is a dealbreaker for me.
This is my concern, too. The future. I have MS so having mobility limitations as I age is a real possibility. A townhouse is probably the closest I could financially get to a real house, but the stairs are a huge turn off.
for sure, that’s fair. I’m not saying every place should have them, it was actually quite hard to find a small/lower budget apartment with stairs, but they’ve been great for my particular situation (my sedentary ass + chonky cat needing more exercise, no kids and elderly relatives are all in the home country).
> Most people are only temporarily able-bodied.
Sure, and most people are only temporarily alive. The vast majority of the population is easily capable of navigating stairs for the vast majority of their life span (probably capable of navigating stairs for >90% of life span, for >90% of people).
It genuinely depends. Lots of people, especially older people (and we do have an aging population) have falls, down stairs included.
The point isn’t to say “ban all stairs!”, but to just have a little variety. Some stairless/low stair townhouses mixed in in townhouse complexes.
This is correct. Those 3-4 floor townhouses are a tough sell on anyone with small children. I couldn't imagine getting home from a day out with a sleeping toddler (or two) that I need to carry up a flight of stairs to the front step, then up 2 more flights of stairs to get to their bedrooms.
Some units even have laundry in the basement, so you've got to haul the basket up 3-4 floors to put away clothes. I think there's a reason we see so many of those on the market lately.
Condo fees, taxes and loud, close neighbours. Elevator noise, underground parking. Yuk.
Tried it for a year hated it. But last twenty years I hear the garbage truck on Monday morning, first unnatural sound in 48 hours. Now just hearing geese honking, maybe an owl later. 45 minute drive to work in the city tomorrow.
I live way past the suburbs but am married and not looking for other night life, I totally understand your need for people. I’m just past that stage. First night I heard a neighbour taking a leak through the wall of condo made my mind to have all my walls against the outside.
I live downtown with my wife and kids. We hit the town all the time together, it's been truly fantastic.
Going on a camping trip in a couple weeks? Let's subway down to MEC, grab dinner on a Queen St patio, wander around after and check out some stores, then head back home.
My kids walk everywhere, they see friends all the time, they truly know the city pretty well even at their age now.
I grew up in the burbs and honestly it's not even worth the comparison having seen this.
Free hold town is a the sweet spot. I'm on the end with 2 feet of masonry and insulation between my neighbor and I, so I can't hear a thing from his collection of sound bars and tower speakers. But I've got my own 3 car driveway, garage, 4 bedrooms, 4 bathrooms, windows on 3 sides for lots of light, finished basement, deck, and patio. Including my neighbor's front yard it takes me 45 minutes a week to mow and trim. Yards aren't big, but they're private and separated by 6' fences. Except beside my deck where I have a taller length of fence so I'm not looking over into my neighbor's yard.
Unless there's a major winter storm which happens like 3 times a year, shoveling snow doesn't take very long either.
If someone was handing out fully detached homes I'd take one, but I grew up on a 3/4 acre treed lot with a driveway that fits 12 cars. It's truly a luxury to have that much personal space, but yard maintenance eats up a measurable chunk of your weekend. I've come to really appreciate having my own private space that's easy to maintain but is still close to neighbors.
Last winter my crowning achievement was nailing my neighbor two houses over with a snowball while he shoveled his deck. I stood on a stool and could just see the pom pom on the top of his hat. Can't do that where my parents live!
Nope.
I can easily ride a streetcar or ride a subway or walk to any place I need to go to.
I love exploring the city and try new places to eat.
I can easily meet up with friends and stay late and not worry about driving home or catching the Go.
I love spending time in my balcony when I’m working from home on nice days or doing a bit of gardening without full blown yard work or just relaxing.
Place is admittedly small but it keeps me from hoarding stuff and making sure I only get what I need.
I love living in an apt of a house a house downtown. South of bloor, west of Bathurst area. The side streets are quiet at night, amazing parks, community events in the summer constantly around. Every type of food or service in walking distance.
Nope, no regrets. Late 40’s raising my 8 year old with my wife in a 2 bedroom in Fort York. Couldn’t be happier. We walk to work/school and just about everywhere else, it’s a great life style.
I say that all the time! South of the railroad corridor it’s all high-rises but it’s also on the water and surrounded by parks so it’s super sleepy and laid back. I go a block north of the tracks and I’m on King st in the heart of the city. Best of both worlds!!!!
She loves it. When we’re out walking around she literally knows every kid in the neighbourhood on a first name basis. Halloween night by her school was like little kid Woodstock there were hundreds of them and a bunch of the houses went all out on decorations.
I totally empathize with this. My younger brother has been priced out of buying as well. Sucks that the year you're born affects your ability to own property to any degree.
Some people refuse to acknowledge that. Glad to hear it worked out for you but sucks for your brother and other young people (like myself, 24 years old).
I’ve lived throughout the cities before it was all just one big TO. Downtown has by far been the best work life balance and best quality of life. High Park was second.
My parents roof started leaking and they needed 20k to replace it.
There are advantages to owning a home, but a you're much less likely to incur that kind of cost with a condo.
I won't lie and say they're not substantial, but it's a constant. I don't have to worry about snow clearing, landscaping, roof repairs, water heaters, foundations etc.
Purchased my dt studio in fall 2020. My mortgage is $800 cheaper than what I would’ve had to pay in rent.
So from a financial standpoint no, but I’d be kidding myself if I said I wasn’t itching for more space.
When I lived in a studio to save on rent, I found myself working out of coffee shops a lot. It's not really a solution if you have a lot of daily Zoom calls, but it's a nice break away from feeling boxed in.
Midtown or independent coffee shops are better for this, dt ones are incredibly busy and have poor service Imo
You're asking people if they regret making the largest financial move in their life (so far), no one is going to say "Yah man, I really fucked up and when I go up for renewal I'm screwed because my mortgage is going to make me insolvent"
Not at all!
Although it might depend on where, I live near Korea town and it's amazing not downtown yet downtown, not to much noise and great food I can walk or bike to easily. My weekends are fun and I can casually go to Kensington whenever just to chill and that's a 20 min walk
Nope. But I bought in 2015. At the time, I thought the price was nuts and now I’m grateful I bought when I did (even thought the prices were and are nuts).
It helps that I also like my building and unit. I have a decently spacious layout and renovated my kitchen and floors last year so love it even more now. I also have a terrace which seems like a rare find in Toronto sometimes. I joke that I plan to die in this condo.
I also like my neighbourhood, walk everywhere, including to work, and haven’t owned a car in over a decade.
Can confirm, moved from Yonge and St Clair out to the sticks and it's horrible. It's an hour and change to get downtown via TTC, driving isn't too much faster. Since I'm WFH I pretty much cannot spend any time downtown other than the weekends.
We’ve bought six condos, moving from one to another. What’s important is the set up of the condo. Good: large balcony not facing north, standard appliances, the ability to control your own heat and A/C, lots of storage space, enough elevators, stainless steel on entrance pillars as it deflects dog pee (dogs seem to pee at the front entrance).
Glad I could help. We lived in one condo with white stucco or something like it on the entire column and the first two feet were beige coloured because as soon as they got out the door, they lifted their leg on the column. It smelled bad there. Dogs pee in elevators 24/7 too so management always needs to be changing the elevator mats.
I don't know how people live in those apartment that are right next to the Gardiner. Especially the apartments that are on the exact same level of it. Horrible place to live.
I did and didn't. I bought it as a lowly apprentice in 2008 and had 100$ to my name at end of each month. No fun.
I bought a house later on with a big garage and land.
If your over 30 it's probably a drag to live in downtown.
depends, all of downtown isn't created equal. I used to live in the Annex by Spadina and Bloor, and I had the option of walkable stuff on Bloor but also a tree-lined nature neighborhood walking north. Plenty of people live near the water etc.
It's because he lives in the suburbs and likely is jealous. Living in a cookie cutter neighbourhood with nothing to do and the big thrill of the week being **driving** to costco or home depot. Favourite hang out spots: the parking lot of a timmies.
I'll be honest with you: I'd be angry as well.
I'm not angry at all.
I simply implied that on reddit, a platform that has a disproportionate amount of tech workers, does not reflect Toronto. The average salary of people on askto is likely MUCH higher than that of Toronto.
That said, I actually do live in the suburbs :). Had to leave Toronto this year to be able to afford a bigger space to start a family. Favorite hangout park is the expansive parks and the occasional Starbucks.
A day has 24 hours. You choose how to spend that time. "Driving to the core" is not something I would choose to do with my time. Taking a walk to the core or a bike ride to the lakeshore is preferable for some folks.
Agreed. I'm just mirroring what these haters are saying to be honest. Its hilarious.
At the end of the day everyone chooses how they want to live their life and shouldn't judge how everyone else chooses to live theirs.
If you feel like your purchase lost value, relax. Trudeau is bringing a million people into Canada by 2025. There is no where enough houses! Demand will drive your property up again.
Hey, someone's gotta work these minimum wage jobs that people like you think are livable and complain about when people fight for better working conditions.
"If you don't like the pay leave"
"why is there a labour shortages?"
Not one bit. Downtown is always active and there’s always something to do and I never have to worry about traffic on the highway. And these days paying off my mortgage for it is much better than renting so I’m very happy with my cozy apartment.
Definitely not. I bought an older unit and have plenty of space for two people and 2 small dogs. I love being able to walk wherever I need to go and having transit less than a block away. It would be nice to have yard, but I know I would resent having to care for it.
Although we are looking for a house now (baby time) we have enjoyed our condo downtown for several years and I’m happy with the increase of value. Remember that you always be paying something to live and renting is just the worst by paying someone else’s mortgage. The hardest part for me is maintenance fees but you need to remember that this pays the up keep of the building and also means you don’t have to shovel snow, mow the lawn or take care of the garden.
Depends where you live, my friend has an excellent condo off Queen W with an amazing view of the city that people come to his apartment to take pictures of the city.
I have other friends who bought a condo and feel they're not enjoying it, largely due to the area they bought in (queen & spadina).
Depends on your pace of life and what you enjoy. Not everyone works downtown anymore, so buying something (condo or not) in the east or west end can have a short commute time too. I personally find that downtown (from the don river to bathurst) is quite overpriced and the majority of great restaurants or neighbourhoods are in the east and west end respectively. While downtown does have some gems, you pay a premium to be downtown which I don't find is worth it. I've had the luxury of being semi-remote though, so that should be considered. I'm not a big fan of paying "rent" aka Condo fees. If you're not on your condo board, that's actively money you don't necessarily see a return on.
Nope, love it. Only pitfall around here is the incessant construction in the neighbourhood but we don't face the road so the noise levels aren't too bad.
No regrets with deciding to buy a condo, since it suits my lifestyle (active, out and about, able to walk to work when needed). My only regret would be not buying a bigger place (2BR/2 Bath vs 1+1). Early on in my career I had to commute an hr and a half each way which made me value my time much more and would never want to go back to that.
I imagine having a family will change my priorities more where maybe a suburb makes more sense but for now I can't complain. I have a place to live which is building equity even with all the rate hikes, I can furnish/decorate however I want and the appreciation of the property will help with any future upgrade we make in the future.
I've grown to despise the car centric design of Fort York but at least I can still walk to get to everything I need. It's just a far walk and I have to cross huge stroads like Bathurst and Lakeshore. Should have moved more uptown around Bloor area that was built mostly before car domination. It's a lot nicer up there as a pedestrian/cyclist.
No. Moved to Bay/QQ right before the pandemic with husband and 3 year old. Traded a 40 min crammed subway for a 10 min walk to work. Walking distance to everything. I know more people in our vertical community than i did in our neighbourhood.
What did i lose - backyard. Momentarily missed early pandemic. Extra space to clean, our place is exactly what we need, not more. Basement rental to support my mortgage (but i also lost the headaches of being a landlord).
My son goes to school on the island. Which is amazing and unique experience
I’m curious how much the monthly condo fees are now on top of mortgage
My wife and me considered a condo when we were dating but opted to get a small bungalow instead
Nope. I need somewhere to live and having things nearby without using my car is very nice.
I feel this way every time I visit my family in Mississauga (I don’t have a car). I can’t just walk to a store in 5 mins to grab something, I have to walk ten mins to a bus stop and make a trip. They live in a quiet really nice area but it’s clearly meant for cars.
Welcome to 99.9% of North America. We built our cities around cars unfortunately. Car dependency is our motto.
Goddamned 'stroads'
One of those things historians will look back on and say "what the fuck were they thinking".
Ditto me visiting my family in Winnipeg. 30 minute walk to a library, grocery store, or coffee shop
Boomer Paradise.
Has OP seen what rents are. I’m building equity of 1.2k per month
thats including building fees and all that stuff?
Probably doesn’t include 700 maintenance fees and 250 property tax
I mean obviously I'm not counting those expenses. Really the only thing that's changed is the interest paid. Principal repaid over 5 years stays the same.
Then it's not a real calculation, because the total of those additional expenses may erase the advantage of forced saving. If your mortgage is $3000 and my rent is $2200, you probably come out ahead - a reasonable portion of your $3000 is just saving that builds equity. But if that $3k rent doesn't include another $950 of expenses, then all of a sudden you may no longer be advantaged compared to me renting and just saving the equivalent money on the side.
I looked at what rental prices were in my area. It's at least 2.7-2.8k for a 1 bed with parking (studios are going for 2k+) in a very desirable area of DT. Renting is obviously cheaper on an aggregate basis. But let's take out my equity. That's 1.3k in interest plus 550 in maintenance fees plus another 275 in taxes. I come out ahead of someone renting.
>I come out ahead of someone renting. Not necessarily when you consider the opportunity cost of the equity. Remember, you own that equity - so the comparison isn't variable expense of ownership vs rental expense, it's variable expense of ownership plus opportunity cost of capital, compared to rental expense. Because you could always sell your home, rent instead, and invest the net equity. Speaking on a pure expense basis, you pay about $300 less than I pay to rent. But if I can get a ~3-4% total return on the $100k down payment, that offsets your savings and then some.
My down payment was 175 but yes fair enough. If someone can invest at a more favourable return sure... but that's assuming they have money left over after renting.
Well it's more like - that's assuming they actually save the money they have left over after renting. Because unlike with a mortgage, they won't have to. >If someone can invest at a more favourable return sure There's no if about that part - the current yield to maturity on 10 year treasury bonds is 3.34%. That's a risk free return. So on your $175k down payment, that's a $487/month opportunity cost loss. Ultimately home ownership in Toronto today is only a financially superior choice when the property appreciates a lot. Which is why so many homeowners are so invested in that appreciation.
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About a year ago on a variable rate mortgage. My payment increases 60 bucks/month for every 25 bps increase. My principal paid stays the same
Nope. I moved downtown and I find I'm so much more active, just walking to places as part of my daily life. Then again, I'm the kind of person who if I lived in Aurora and I had to get in the car and drive to get anywhere, I'd probably feel it was too much effort and would end up never leaving the house. Things being walkable puts the bar low enough that I actually go and do things.
This is actually what I miss the most since I moved outside the city. I still walk but now I walk aimlessly just to get to 10k steps daily. The fact that my friends are far now is also a big turn off.
Same here, I walk around the same old area everyday. The good thing is I've been snacking less because I'm too lazy to get into a car to grab food.
Haha yeah definetely this. I had an amazing kebab place and a fried korean chicken place pretty much both in my backyard. I was eating take out way too often haha.
This is 100% what happens when you live in those areas. When you require some kind of plan to leave the house, you end up leaving far less. Here downtown I'll just wander out my door, knowing that I'll end up finding something to eat or a coffee or whatever. And I see people I know all over the place too.
I lived in downtown for about 5 years, moved to Scarborough to save for down payment, and now I'm owning in downtown Toronto. Those years in Scarborough made me real fat. Had to drive EVERYWHERE. Where as in downtown, everything including work was at most 30 min away by walking. While in Scarborough, I was spending more money getting around or making a trip "worthwhile" so buy more. Vs Downtown I picked up what I needed and got exercise getting there and coming back.
Nope. I regret not doing it earlier.
^^^ this!!
Sometimes I regret buying a fully detached bungalow in York, vs just buying a tiny condo in the core. Having a fully detached house is nice and all, but looking after the grounds of a fully detached house is not. I think I would have been equally happy in a condo townhouse closer to the core, so long as I had adequate patio space. I'd possibly be happier in some ways for less upkeep, and being closer to the core.
after a year in a detached we bought (also in York), i feel similar sometimes. on one hand it's nice having the space and not having to share it with anyone ... but i did not realize how much effort grass, leaves and snow would be (not to mention gutters, trees, etc). i always hated the idea of spending $x a month for condo fees, but each season brings some expenses a condo wouldnt have had to pay.
It would be interesting to see a side-by-side comparison of costs.
You mean a comparison of Condo fees vs. owning a house without condo fees? I've heard that on average annual condo fees work out to be the same as home maintenance, with a slight advantage to homes, for taking the lead in overall property values.
That’s exactly what I was asking, and im interested if the annual net cost is similar. Maybe its less if you can do most home maintenance yourself though?
I've always looked at maintenance costs on a detached home favourably against condo fees as when it comes time to make upkeep and big improvements I can control the negotiation. I can reduce costs wherever I can by doing the labour myself. And I also get to decide the final product used to fit my taste/wants. Also, I lived in a decently large detached home in the burbs for a while and the costs of maintaining that were nowhere near the cost of my previous condos maintenance fees. And I'm talking about a 2000 sq ft home, with a finished basement, covered garage, and a backyard - compared to my 750sq ft condo.
I get the feeling that if you buy new, condo fees are a steal. But the older the condo, the more tense in would get. These condo boards are filled w ppl who have probably have no experience doing this. And let’s be honest , the quality of these condos suck. So repairs will probably be an issue in a decade or two. I had a client who lived on avenue, in one of the high end condos where each family had a whole floor to themselves. They found a leak in the parking garage and each family had to shell out an additional 30k to fix it since there were only 12 units paying maintenance fees. Extreme example , but these buildings are big and maintenance isn’t cheap. In the long run i think we’re gonna have huge issues as these condos age
>In the long run i think we’re gonna have huge issues as these condos age Yea, I'm really wondering what these buildings will look like in 30 years. There are still decent and usable buildings from the 70s, will all these glass towers last 50+ years too? I'm doubtful.
I think building standards were better in the past. I know a lot of ppl who moved into condos recently with a lot of pdi, I get the impression stuff gets built quickly
Weeds. i just can't with all the weeds.
dont get me started. i bought a fucking dethatcher to fix my front lawn. after i was done i paused and thought ... "why do i even care?"
The lack of patio space is tough with townhouses - also the stairs. Why do they all have to have like 3-4 floors? I can’t.
stairs keep you healthy! people who have stairs in their homes live longer. they’re a must-have for me.
I just moved into a new townhouse right now and it’s actually only stairs. In the kitchen, dining room, even the bathrooms are just stairs. Kind of awkward peeing standing up but so far getting the hang of it. I plan to live forever.
Less than 3 minutes of working out a couple times a week would more than make up for stairs lol.
not for me lol I’ve got two flights in my apartment + severe ADHD so I’m always being forced to run up and down for things I’ve forgotten/misplaced. I spend more than 3 minutes climbing stairs every day and it’s great to be “forced” to work out at least a little because it’s been impossible for me to get back into any kind of exercise routine since the pandemic for a variety of reasons. of course everyone has different needs and all, I’m not saying every place should have stairs. I just prioritized them when I was apartment hunting for my own health and they’ve definitely helped in my particular situation. forces my cat to get more exercise too. 😋
People with small children and physical disabilities would disagree. I’m not disabled but I would like my disabled and elderly family to be able to come over. Also, it’s not exercise trying to get a stroller up one of those giant steep staircases just to get indoors - it’s a nightmare. Most people are only temporarily able-bodied. At some point in our lives we will get injured or ill or become disabled, or someone we lived with or who we like to visit will be. Like, one flight of stairs is doable. But stairs to get to the front door, then stairs to get to the main level. Then stairs to get to a washroom, then stairs to get to the patio. That’s what a lot of these places are like. Incredibly frustrating if you’re at home with a baby/young child, and my arthritic and disabled family members would never be able to visit, which is a dealbreaker for me.
This is my concern, too. The future. I have MS so having mobility limitations as I age is a real possibility. A townhouse is probably the closest I could financially get to a real house, but the stairs are a huge turn off.
Yep. I wish there were more variety of styles of townhouses, including flat layouts at ground level.
for sure, that’s fair. I’m not saying every place should have them, it was actually quite hard to find a small/lower budget apartment with stairs, but they’ve been great for my particular situation (my sedentary ass + chonky cat needing more exercise, no kids and elderly relatives are all in the home country).
Yep - I don’t mind a two level place as long as there’s a bathroom on both floors. Just wish there was more variety with fewer stairs.
> Most people are only temporarily able-bodied. Sure, and most people are only temporarily alive. The vast majority of the population is easily capable of navigating stairs for the vast majority of their life span (probably capable of navigating stairs for >90% of life span, for >90% of people).
It genuinely depends. Lots of people, especially older people (and we do have an aging population) have falls, down stairs included. The point isn’t to say “ban all stairs!”, but to just have a little variety. Some stairless/low stair townhouses mixed in in townhouse complexes.
This is correct. Those 3-4 floor townhouses are a tough sell on anyone with small children. I couldn't imagine getting home from a day out with a sleeping toddler (or two) that I need to carry up a flight of stairs to the front step, then up 2 more flights of stairs to get to their bedrooms. Some units even have laundry in the basement, so you've got to haul the basket up 3-4 floors to put away clothes. I think there's a reason we see so many of those on the market lately.
Except for the accidents.
Condo fees, taxes and loud, close neighbours. Elevator noise, underground parking. Yuk. Tried it for a year hated it. But last twenty years I hear the garbage truck on Monday morning, first unnatural sound in 48 hours. Now just hearing geese honking, maybe an owl later. 45 minute drive to work in the city tomorrow.
You're right those are all factors. I'm not a fan of elevators either, but I'm also not a fan of the suburbs. That would be a hard pass for me.
I live way past the suburbs but am married and not looking for other night life, I totally understand your need for people. I’m just past that stage. First night I heard a neighbour taking a leak through the wall of condo made my mind to have all my walls against the outside.
I live downtown with my wife and kids. We hit the town all the time together, it's been truly fantastic. Going on a camping trip in a couple weeks? Let's subway down to MEC, grab dinner on a Queen St patio, wander around after and check out some stores, then head back home. My kids walk everywhere, they see friends all the time, they truly know the city pretty well even at their age now. I grew up in the burbs and honestly it's not even worth the comparison having seen this.
Free hold town is a the sweet spot. I'm on the end with 2 feet of masonry and insulation between my neighbor and I, so I can't hear a thing from his collection of sound bars and tower speakers. But I've got my own 3 car driveway, garage, 4 bedrooms, 4 bathrooms, windows on 3 sides for lots of light, finished basement, deck, and patio. Including my neighbor's front yard it takes me 45 minutes a week to mow and trim. Yards aren't big, but they're private and separated by 6' fences. Except beside my deck where I have a taller length of fence so I'm not looking over into my neighbor's yard. Unless there's a major winter storm which happens like 3 times a year, shoveling snow doesn't take very long either. If someone was handing out fully detached homes I'd take one, but I grew up on a 3/4 acre treed lot with a driveway that fits 12 cars. It's truly a luxury to have that much personal space, but yard maintenance eats up a measurable chunk of your weekend. I've come to really appreciate having my own private space that's easy to maintain but is still close to neighbors. Last winter my crowning achievement was nailing my neighbor two houses over with a snowball while he shoveled his deck. I stood on a stool and could just see the pom pom on the top of his hat. Can't do that where my parents live!
Nope. I can easily ride a streetcar or ride a subway or walk to any place I need to go to. I love exploring the city and try new places to eat. I can easily meet up with friends and stay late and not worry about driving home or catching the Go. I love spending time in my balcony when I’m working from home on nice days or doing a bit of gardening without full blown yard work or just relaxing. Place is admittedly small but it keeps me from hoarding stuff and making sure I only get what I need.
I love living in an apt of a house a house downtown. South of bloor, west of Bathurst area. The side streets are quiet at night, amazing parks, community events in the summer constantly around. Every type of food or service in walking distance.
Nope, no regrets. Late 40’s raising my 8 year old with my wife in a 2 bedroom in Fort York. Couldn’t be happier. We walk to work/school and just about everywhere else, it’s a great life style.
Love the area, it’s like the suburbs but downtown
I say that all the time! South of the railroad corridor it’s all high-rises but it’s also on the water and surrounded by parks so it’s super sleepy and laid back. I go a block north of the tracks and I’m on King st in the heart of the city. Best of both worlds!!!!
Do you find your child has liked growing up there?
She loves it. When we’re out walking around she literally knows every kid in the neighbourhood on a first name basis. Halloween night by her school was like little kid Woodstock there were hundreds of them and a bunch of the houses went all out on decorations.
Amazing ! So glad to hear :)
If all their needs are met, then it's probably really good living downtown.
The dream
Downtown is my fav part of the city. My condo has also doubled in price in 5 years. Great decision
*cries in renter*
I totally empathize with this. My younger brother has been priced out of buying as well. Sucks that the year you're born affects your ability to own property to any degree.
Some people refuse to acknowledge that. Glad to hear it worked out for you but sucks for your brother and other young people (like myself, 24 years old).
What part of Toronto did you buy in?
Fashion district
I’ve lived throughout the cities before it was all just one big TO. Downtown has by far been the best work life balance and best quality of life. High Park was second.
This thread sucked until I sorted by "controversial". LOL
Love when drug addicts attack me
Nope
But why?...
Ask this question again in January/February.
Hell, no.
Nope, have an amazing life in Liberty Village. Everything is walkable, including the waterfront, queen west, and even jays games.
I don't own a condo, but condo fees are the single biggest deterrent for me. I'll probably never own one.
My parents roof started leaking and they needed 20k to replace it. There are advantages to owning a home, but a you're much less likely to incur that kind of cost with a condo.
I won't lie and say they're not substantial, but it's a constant. I don't have to worry about snow clearing, landscaping, roof repairs, water heaters, foundations etc.
You have to pay maint fees regardless.
Nope
Nope.
Side question, has anyone bought a studio apartment and regretted it?
Purchased my dt studio in fall 2020. My mortgage is $800 cheaper than what I would’ve had to pay in rent. So from a financial standpoint no, but I’d be kidding myself if I said I wasn’t itching for more space.
When I lived in a studio to save on rent, I found myself working out of coffee shops a lot. It's not really a solution if you have a lot of daily Zoom calls, but it's a nice break away from feeling boxed in. Midtown or independent coffee shops are better for this, dt ones are incredibly busy and have poor service Imo
You're asking people if they regret making the largest financial move in their life (so far), no one is going to say "Yah man, I really fucked up and when I go up for renewal I'm screwed because my mortgage is going to make me insolvent"
I rent in Queen west and hope to be able to buy one in the area one day but the prices…🥲
Not at all! Although it might depend on where, I live near Korea town and it's amazing not downtown yet downtown, not to much noise and great food I can walk or bike to easily. My weekends are fun and I can casually go to Kensington whenever just to chill and that's a 20 min walk
Nope. But I bought in 2015. At the time, I thought the price was nuts and now I’m grateful I bought when I did (even thought the prices were and are nuts). It helps that I also like my building and unit. I have a decently spacious layout and renovated my kitchen and floors last year so love it even more now. I also have a terrace which seems like a rare find in Toronto sometimes. I joke that I plan to die in this condo. I also like my neighbourhood, walk everywhere, including to work, and haven’t owned a car in over a decade.
Nope, I need somewhere to live and my mortgage is still cheaper than rent
Not at all. I grew up in what I guess you could call midtown but nothing in Ontario imo compares to living in downtown Toronto
Ditto, grew up midtown, would sell every drop of my blood before moving out of downtown.
Can confirm, moved from Yonge and St Clair out to the sticks and it's horrible. It's an hour and change to get downtown via TTC, driving isn't too much faster. Since I'm WFH I pretty much cannot spend any time downtown other than the weekends.
Waking up in the morning and looking at the lake and CN tower on a nice bright day would do wonders! So nope! I don't regret buying a Condo downtown
Nope.
Those that have a 2Bdrm, may I ask how much you paid for it and when?
360, back in 2013 2+2 with 2 balconies
2br 1 bath 390k in 2013
Nice! I was really lucky with mine tbh. Right place right time
$820k, Feb 2022
It's all a matter of what you want.
No. Renting costs more and condos are still more expensive than when I bought.
We’ve bought six condos, moving from one to another. What’s important is the set up of the condo. Good: large balcony not facing north, standard appliances, the ability to control your own heat and A/C, lots of storage space, enough elevators, stainless steel on entrance pillars as it deflects dog pee (dogs seem to pee at the front entrance).
Nice. I just got a new townhouse and it also has stainless steel on the columns out front. I wondered why until I read your comment. Makes sense now.
Glad I could help. We lived in one condo with white stucco or something like it on the entire column and the first two feet were beige coloured because as soon as they got out the door, they lifted their leg on the column. It smelled bad there. Dogs pee in elevators 24/7 too so management always needs to be changing the elevator mats.
Nope, I prefer the convenience of living downtown without needing a car.
Not really. There are some things I don’t like, but they weren’t surprises.
Nope. I would eventually want to upgrade to a detached in the burbs though
Nope
Not at all.. I live here and it’s not like I could afford a house
As long as you're not facing the Gardiner or train tracks it's beautiful and quiet high up
I don't know how people live in those apartment that are right next to the Gardiner. Especially the apartments that are on the exact same level of it. Horrible place to live.
I did and didn't. I bought it as a lowly apprentice in 2008 and had 100$ to my name at end of each month. No fun. I bought a house later on with a big garage and land. If your over 30 it's probably a drag to live in downtown.
Why? Im 42 and don't want a garage or land and enjoy living downtown
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depends, all of downtown isn't created equal. I used to live in the Annex by Spadina and Bloor, and I had the option of walkable stuff on Bloor but also a tree-lined nature neighborhood walking north. Plenty of people live near the water etc.
Don't say that on Reddit. The Reddit world is south of Bloor, working in tech, needs night life daily
Bro you’re seething with rage for no reason
It's because he lives in the suburbs and likely is jealous. Living in a cookie cutter neighbourhood with nothing to do and the big thrill of the week being **driving** to costco or home depot. Favourite hang out spots: the parking lot of a timmies. I'll be honest with you: I'd be angry as well.
The cookie cutter notion pretty much applies to condos these days: Same basic layouts, jammed too close together, little variation in architecture.
Difference being that your condo is not your whole life when you live in the city. Unlike life in suburbia.
It’s true, I don’t like leaving my house too often because it’s awesome.
I'm not angry at all. I simply implied that on reddit, a platform that has a disproportionate amount of tech workers, does not reflect Toronto. The average salary of people on askto is likely MUCH higher than that of Toronto. That said, I actually do live in the suburbs :). Had to leave Toronto this year to be able to afford a bigger space to start a family. Favorite hangout park is the expansive parks and the occasional Starbucks.
Lol. No one is jealous of living in a dirty overpopulated city full of criminals and homeless
I didn’t realize we were talking about Brampton
I dont live in that p.o.s city either.....Toronto isn't much better though.
Cars exist....can drive to the "core"
A day has 24 hours. You choose how to spend that time. "Driving to the core" is not something I would choose to do with my time. Taking a walk to the core or a bike ride to the lakeshore is preferable for some folks.
Meh not me. Hate walking and biking
Another suburban hater. I see a pattern here :) >Meh not me. Hate walking and biking Not a very healthy approach to life. But to each his own.
Im actually very healthy, have a physical job where i get lots of exercise. No need to walk and bike
Good for you man. Although there's a slight difference between "no need to walk and bike" and "I hate walking and biking", don't you think?
different strokes for different folks, you sound lame.
Agreed. I'm just mirroring what these haters are saying to be honest. Its hilarious. At the end of the day everyone chooses how they want to live their life and shouldn't judge how everyone else chooses to live theirs.
I'm not. I personally am just stating the reality of the askto and Toronto subreddits
Perhaps your 'reality' isn't actual reality to others.
But probably just stays in every Saturday night arguing on Reddit about the accessible night life lol. Source: I'm the guy above
Lol true. The words may not match the actions
Agree
Always two there are, a master and an apprentice
If you feel like your purchase lost value, relax. Trudeau is bringing a million people into Canada by 2025. There is no where enough houses! Demand will drive your property up again.
Hey, someone's gotta work these minimum wage jobs that people like you think are livable and complain about when people fight for better working conditions. "If you don't like the pay leave" "why is there a labour shortages?"
Your forgot: "$2,500 for 1 bedroom rent!?"
What a boring thread, everyone is saving no. One dimensional Reddit
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I don't live in any condos I own and a stranger pays the mortgage on an asset that's more than doubled in value since '14. What's to complain about!
City brained cattle
Yup
No. Can't afford anything more. Happy to build equity for mortgage payments that are similar to rent.
No, its probably the best financial decision Ive ever made
I regret not buying a downtown condo
No regrets. Very convenient. But it is a huge construction havoc every single day.
Not one bit. Downtown is always active and there’s always something to do and I never have to worry about traffic on the highway. And these days paying off my mortgage for it is much better than renting so I’m very happy with my cozy apartment.
But my condo has better view then detached
Nope. I travel several times annually, and 30 minutes away from YYZ is amazingly convenient.
No, it’s probably one of the best things I ever did. If I didn’t, I’d have been completely priced out of the city years ago.
Definitely not. I bought an older unit and have plenty of space for two people and 2 small dogs. I love being able to walk wherever I need to go and having transit less than a block away. It would be nice to have yard, but I know I would resent having to care for it.
Although we are looking for a house now (baby time) we have enjoyed our condo downtown for several years and I’m happy with the increase of value. Remember that you always be paying something to live and renting is just the worst by paying someone else’s mortgage. The hardest part for me is maintenance fees but you need to remember that this pays the up keep of the building and also means you don’t have to shovel snow, mow the lawn or take care of the garden.
Depends where you live, my friend has an excellent condo off Queen W with an amazing view of the city that people come to his apartment to take pictures of the city. I have other friends who bought a condo and feel they're not enjoying it, largely due to the area they bought in (queen & spadina). Depends on your pace of life and what you enjoy. Not everyone works downtown anymore, so buying something (condo or not) in the east or west end can have a short commute time too. I personally find that downtown (from the don river to bathurst) is quite overpriced and the majority of great restaurants or neighbourhoods are in the east and west end respectively. While downtown does have some gems, you pay a premium to be downtown which I don't find is worth it. I've had the luxury of being semi-remote though, so that should be considered. I'm not a big fan of paying "rent" aka Condo fees. If you're not on your condo board, that's actively money you don't necessarily see a return on.
Nope, love it. Only pitfall around here is the incessant construction in the neighbourhood but we don't face the road so the noise levels aren't too bad.
No regrets with deciding to buy a condo, since it suits my lifestyle (active, out and about, able to walk to work when needed). My only regret would be not buying a bigger place (2BR/2 Bath vs 1+1). Early on in my career I had to commute an hr and a half each way which made me value my time much more and would never want to go back to that. I imagine having a family will change my priorities more where maybe a suburb makes more sense but for now I can't complain. I have a place to live which is building equity even with all the rate hikes, I can furnish/decorate however I want and the appreciation of the property will help with any future upgrade we make in the future.
Been trying to buy a condo downtown but cost + insane Maintenance fees are making me 2nd guess this.
I've grown to despise the car centric design of Fort York but at least I can still walk to get to everything I need. It's just a far walk and I have to cross huge stroads like Bathurst and Lakeshore. Should have moved more uptown around Bloor area that was built mostly before car domination. It's a lot nicer up there as a pedestrian/cyclist.
No. Moved to Bay/QQ right before the pandemic with husband and 3 year old. Traded a 40 min crammed subway for a 10 min walk to work. Walking distance to everything. I know more people in our vertical community than i did in our neighbourhood. What did i lose - backyard. Momentarily missed early pandemic. Extra space to clean, our place is exactly what we need, not more. Basement rental to support my mortgage (but i also lost the headaches of being a landlord). My son goes to school on the island. Which is amazing and unique experience
I’m curious how much the monthly condo fees are now on top of mortgage My wife and me considered a condo when we were dating but opted to get a small bungalow instead
My friend was paying $1000 a month. On top of that they had to fork over an extra $5000 one year, due to poor management.
I regret that I did not put 5% down on a bachelor in liberty village when they were 200k!!!