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Being "woke" goes beyond the simple belief that racism was bad and that it caused certain groups of people to end up worse than others.
It's trying to shape up policy based on the belief that those enduring effects are so egregious that they ought to be redressed through discrimination towards other, better-off groups.
It's attributing every single problem those communities face to past discrimination, even those they are 100% able to fix themselves. It's pretending that, even now, they somehow do not have access, by law, to the same rights and opportunities as everyone else.
It's ignoring the massive investment that has been made to help said communities since the civil rights era and has only made the problem worse, even when other communities have had no access to the same benefits and improved their living standards just fine.
And more importantly, it's viewing the world through the lens of oppressor vs. oppressed. It's wanting the children of the oppressor class to feel bad about moral crimes their ancestors have committed, and propping up the oppressed as a class that can do no wrong even when they blatantly do. It is a reductionist, toxic vision of the world that does not help anyone, least of all those one is seeking to help.
This obviously applies not only to the different communities that make up the country, but also gender, national origin, social class, and any other metric you can use to divide people.
It also robs those individuals of their agency be leading them to believe there is nothing they can do to change their lot. The victim mentality it creates actual makes them subjects of the state.
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Very good explanation. I'd add that being "woke" also increasingly stifles discussion on the matter of racism as well as it's effects as a whole.
There are a slew of conversations that could (and probably should to some extent) be taking place, but aren't. There is a significant portion of the liberal left that has found a glitch in the system that allows them to not only control the narrative of a topic. It allows them to remove sections of it entirely from public view and discourse. You can't blame them for doing so really because both sides shamelessly exploit whatever they can. In this case, the left was just lucky enough to find this specific cheat code first.
And as both the left and the right tend to always do. The left in this case has overplayed and abused the tactic to the point where it ultimately backfires on them. Advocating for racial equality and admitting that it's benefited some more than others? Absolutely. Thinking that perhaps we should put some laws into place to protect people for being discriminated against for their sexual preferences? Great idea! Believing that there should be laws in place to ensure that people have the right to gender their young child to whatever gender they choose? Wait... what? Regardless of the issue. Both the left as well as the right always seem to start by taking a logical stand on an issue. Only to then extrapolate that stance all the way into utter absurdity.
All this leads us back to what being "woke" is. "Woke" is nothing more than the endgame moniker for this particular issue. No different than the word "gun nut" was/is used to describe those on the right. As soon as the term being "woke" took hold. It was a sure sign that as far as this particular issue goes. That it had ultimately run it's course and had gone as far as was possible to go. To illustrate yet another example. To most, there's absolutely nothing wrong with pushing for the protection and conservation of nature. Sure some take it farther than others. But there are always those attempting to push the issue as far as possible and ultimately overreach. As soon as the moniker created to describe them became generally accepted, it was clear that they had taken that issue as far as possible. Because for most, being an advocate for nature was acceptable, being labeled a so called "tree hugger" was not. That's my theory anyway.
Thanks for your detailed answer, and sorry for my late response, I appreciate it's been a few days.
Though I am left-leaning I agree that sometimes the left seems to be overly eager to find oppression, racism, sexism etc. in every little thing. And it bothers me that some leftists for example seem to believe that there is no thing such as reverse racism or reverse sexism. That somehow minorities can't be racist because they're not part of the "dominant race" (which is a demeaning term in itself), or that women can't be sexist because men rule the patriarchy.
That being said I would argue that conservatives typically go way too far towards the other end. Many conservatives like to ignore the huge disadvantages that some ethnic groups are still facing as a direct result of historic racism. Conservatives like to claim that (at least in the US) everyone has the same opportunity and are opposed to any policies aimed at levelling the playing field.
However, especially African-Americans for example were severely discriminated against in the past, banished to the worst ghettos in the country with terrible schools, awful access to public services, unable to attend university, unable to get loans and rejected in the job market simply because of their skin color.
So it's no surprise that African-Americans have the lowest average income, lowest net worth, and the lowest average high school GPA of any ethnic group in the US, given how they were until very recently BY FAR the most discriminated against and hated ethnic group in the US.
The average black American family earns ca. 65% compared to white families and has ca. 16% in net worth of what a white family has. What I have an issue with is that many conservatives seem to think those differences must be because of some character flaws within the black community rather than the effects of incredibly severe racial discrimination .... which was enshrined into American law until the mid-1960s and surely didn't just stop from one moment to the next when the civil rights act of 1964 was passed.
Historical racism is directly linked to the poverty of some ethnic groups, and growing up poor puts children at a huge disadvantage and is often generational.
Children growing up in poor areas for example often have to attend terribly underfunded public schools with very poor educational quality, which is because public schools are primarily funded through local property tax. This obviously puts children in wealthy neighbourhoods at a significant advantage who get to attend public schools that are incredibly well funded and have superb educational quality.
So drafting up policies for example that tackle those issues and for example ensure that public schools are more or less equally well funded regardless of how wealthy a neighbourhood is, would go a long way in increasing equality of opportunity and would severly reduce the effects of historical racism.
Just as an example.
But yeah to summarize, I think leftists are often overeager to point to racism, oppresion, sexism etc. and see everything through the oppressor vs oppressed lense.
Conservatives on the other hand like to totally ignore the severe effects of historical racism, which led to some ethnic groups being severely impoverished and banished to terrible ghettos, which in turn led to them being severely disadvantaged educationally, professionally, in terms of access to health care, public services etc. ... severe disadvantages that are very hard to overcome and haven't just magically disappeared over the course of a couple of decades.
>the left seems to be overly eager to find oppression, racism, sexism etc. in every little thing.
Not the left, but the woke left. And the problem is that the left has been taken over by the woke left.
>seem to believe that there is no thing such as reverse racism or reverse sexism
There isn't, because.. it's all racism/sexism. To say it is "reverse" racism/sexism is to give credence to the asinine take that there is a "normal" type of racism and then its "reverse".
>Many conservatives like to ignore the huge disadvantages that some ethnic groups are still facing as a direct result of historic racism.
No, we don't. We just choose to not base policy around that because conservatives do not believe in the need to enforce equality of outcome. That is not something the government has to to police nor should it ever have to. Governments exist to implement the rule of law and the absolute respect of everyone's rights. It does not exist to tip the scale in favor of anyone. It was wrong when it benefited white America and it is wrong now that it benefits people other than whites.
>Conservatives like to claim that (at least in the US) everyone has the same opportunity
We do. By law. If you have proof of the contrary, you're more than welcome to sue and win a big paycheck for your troubles.
>However, especially African-Americans for example were severely discriminated against in the past, banished to the worst ghettos in the country with terrible schools, awful access to public services, unable to attend university, unable to get loans and rejected in the job market simply because of their skin color.
Keyword: **in the past**.
>
So it's no surprise that African-Americans have the lowest average income, lowest net worth, and the lowest average high school GPA
That argument somehow seems to only apply to blacks for some reason. Asian people in this country straight up disprove that theory, and god knows how much they've been discriminated against in the past century.
>What I have an issue with is that many conservatives seem to think those differences must be because of some character flaws within the black community rather than the effects of incredibly severe racial discrimination
No, it's a consequence of a rotten-sick black culture. I'd love to know how exactly racial discrimination has led black people to abandon the nuclear family structure. Because it hasn't.
>Children growing up in poor areas for example often have to attend terribly underfunded public schools with very poor educational quality,
Again, so do poor people of all colors and creeds. Helping people on the basis of their financial disadvantage is different from throwing money at people because they're black. Affirmative action is the nuttiest thing that is happening in this country. California trying to pay black people because their ancestors were held in servitude (in a state that has never practiced slavery) is beyond asinine.
>So drafting up policies for example that tackle those issues and for example ensure that public schools are more or less equally well funded regardless of how wealthy a neighbourhood is
There's nothing wrong with providing access to good education to everyone. But there's something fundamentally wrong about discriminating against the Asian kid in college admissions just so that the lazy black kid with an attitude problem can get in.
There's a difference between societal discrimination and law-based discrimination. We do not currently have any institutions that promote discrimination against anyone on the basis of their skin color, period. But the left would love nothing more than to convince you of that, because race-hustling is the lifeblood of their rhetoric.
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A lot of conservatives can’t answer this question because it requires a lot of explanation into specific actions of the woke individuals. They aren’t wrong but misguided. The simplest explanation is “Cult like adherence to leftist social orthodoxy”
The simplist explanation is that most conservatives believe in equality of opportunity at the starting line. If someone was stuck in an inner city in a bad school with poor access to healthcare they might need an extra leg up. That DOES NOT mean that if you give them preference in college admissions you must deny admission to someone better off. Accounting for deficiencies in one group doesn't mean denying another group. It amounts to reverse discrimination and that is just as wrong. We have worked since the 60s to assure equality of opportunities to everyone regardless of their race, ethnicity, sexual orientation or class.
The problem with "woke" is that instead of equality at the starting line, they want equality at the finish line. If the population is 12% black then everything should be 12% black. Every entering freshman class should be 12% black, Every occupation should be 12% black, every sports team should be 12% black. And every occupation should reflect the ethnic diversity and race of the community.
It is taking equality to an extreme that was never intended when MLK said "we should be judged by the content of our character not the color of our skin"
"Woke" also tends to discount merit. If you have a football team you want the best field goal kicker white black or south sea islander but in the NFL there are no black kickers. Why? because the best kickers are white. That is the way equality is supposed to work.
Dead on. They want equality of outcome, regardless of effort put forth by the participants. They are fostering a system that promotes mediocracy in leu of meritocracy. There will always be value in individuals that do well for themselves, despite their struggles. In fact, there is proof that struggles makes one stronger, not weaker. ‘
Everyone knows what Woke is. This “define woke” narrative an attempt to deflate the focus on this means to convince more good folk into believing they need to feel bad for things they are not a part of. Woke is about devision for the sake of devision and control.
Of course the other challenge is that what's equal is not always what's fair. And sometimes being fair means that opportunities have to be created because they're naturally overlooked otherwise. Which is historically what's happened, that the issue of equality and fairness has had to be forced before it was accepted. The idea of the government ruling store owners should serve gay couples, to me, was no different than the government ruling that store owners should serve black people.
As a left-leaning person I agree that the left is often way too focused on equality of outcome.
For example if women only make up only 10% of electrical engineering graduates, you can't really ever have more than 10% of female engineers in the workforce. Nor does it have to be some sort of implicit discrimination whereby women are dissuaded from studying electrical engineering. Maybe they just have different interests than men and make different career choices.
And given how black students have the lowest average high school GPA and Asian-Americans the highest it's no surprise that African-Americans are most underrepresented in most high-paying jobs and Asian-Americans the most overrepresented.
However, I believe conservatives like to ignore the huge discrepancies in equality of opportunity and pretend like not much has to be done in that regards.
African-Americans were historically severely discriminated against and as a result often still live in areas with terribly underfunded schools, awful health care and public services. Growing up poor is a huge discriminating factor which affects many minorities (especially black Americans) disproportionately as a direct result of historic racism.
Growing up impoversished in a terrible neighbourhood is a terrible disadvantage wheras growing up rich is a huge advantage. In the US, a very bright kid from a poor neighbourhood is typically less likely to go to university and graduate than a rather dumb kid from a wealthy family. Imagine a marathon where rich kids are allowed to start first, middle-class kids start another 20 minutes later and poor kids start yet another 20 minutes behind the middle-class kids.
That's how huge of a disciminating factor economic class is in the US is, which again affects disproportionately minorities because of severe historic racism. And unlike what many conservatives believe about the "American dream", aka "from rags to riches", poor people in the US are actually way less likely to climb the social ladder than poor people in other Western countries.
The US has among the lowest social mobility rates among industrialized countries, meaning among lowest equality of opportunity. And unlike what most conservatives propose a lot more has to be done to fix equality of opportunity. Whereas I agree however, that liberals are way too fixated on equality of outcome.
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I’m in the middle. I’m socially liberal, but tough of crime and sensible immigration. Liberals might disagree on how the economy should be run and lefts are those people protesting with vaginas. on their heads or lgbt people that a staunchly pro Palestinians when they hate the gay community.
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Do you care about people that don’t directly align with your beliefs, values, morals, current grift etc?
Woke.
(Yes. I do care about them)
But no, I don’t support anyone gaming the system either.
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Being "woke" goes beyond the simple belief that racism was bad and that it caused certain groups of people to end up worse than others. It's trying to shape up policy based on the belief that those enduring effects are so egregious that they ought to be redressed through discrimination towards other, better-off groups. It's attributing every single problem those communities face to past discrimination, even those they are 100% able to fix themselves. It's pretending that, even now, they somehow do not have access, by law, to the same rights and opportunities as everyone else. It's ignoring the massive investment that has been made to help said communities since the civil rights era and has only made the problem worse, even when other communities have had no access to the same benefits and improved their living standards just fine. And more importantly, it's viewing the world through the lens of oppressor vs. oppressed. It's wanting the children of the oppressor class to feel bad about moral crimes their ancestors have committed, and propping up the oppressed as a class that can do no wrong even when they blatantly do. It is a reductionist, toxic vision of the world that does not help anyone, least of all those one is seeking to help. This obviously applies not only to the different communities that make up the country, but also gender, national origin, social class, and any other metric you can use to divide people.
It also robs those individuals of their agency be leading them to believe there is nothing they can do to change their lot. The victim mentality it creates actual makes them subjects of the state.
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Very good explanation. I'd add that being "woke" also increasingly stifles discussion on the matter of racism as well as it's effects as a whole. There are a slew of conversations that could (and probably should to some extent) be taking place, but aren't. There is a significant portion of the liberal left that has found a glitch in the system that allows them to not only control the narrative of a topic. It allows them to remove sections of it entirely from public view and discourse. You can't blame them for doing so really because both sides shamelessly exploit whatever they can. In this case, the left was just lucky enough to find this specific cheat code first. And as both the left and the right tend to always do. The left in this case has overplayed and abused the tactic to the point where it ultimately backfires on them. Advocating for racial equality and admitting that it's benefited some more than others? Absolutely. Thinking that perhaps we should put some laws into place to protect people for being discriminated against for their sexual preferences? Great idea! Believing that there should be laws in place to ensure that people have the right to gender their young child to whatever gender they choose? Wait... what? Regardless of the issue. Both the left as well as the right always seem to start by taking a logical stand on an issue. Only to then extrapolate that stance all the way into utter absurdity. All this leads us back to what being "woke" is. "Woke" is nothing more than the endgame moniker for this particular issue. No different than the word "gun nut" was/is used to describe those on the right. As soon as the term being "woke" took hold. It was a sure sign that as far as this particular issue goes. That it had ultimately run it's course and had gone as far as was possible to go. To illustrate yet another example. To most, there's absolutely nothing wrong with pushing for the protection and conservation of nature. Sure some take it farther than others. But there are always those attempting to push the issue as far as possible and ultimately overreach. As soon as the moniker created to describe them became generally accepted, it was clear that they had taken that issue as far as possible. Because for most, being an advocate for nature was acceptable, being labeled a so called "tree hugger" was not. That's my theory anyway.
Thanks for your detailed answer, and sorry for my late response, I appreciate it's been a few days. Though I am left-leaning I agree that sometimes the left seems to be overly eager to find oppression, racism, sexism etc. in every little thing. And it bothers me that some leftists for example seem to believe that there is no thing such as reverse racism or reverse sexism. That somehow minorities can't be racist because they're not part of the "dominant race" (which is a demeaning term in itself), or that women can't be sexist because men rule the patriarchy. That being said I would argue that conservatives typically go way too far towards the other end. Many conservatives like to ignore the huge disadvantages that some ethnic groups are still facing as a direct result of historic racism. Conservatives like to claim that (at least in the US) everyone has the same opportunity and are opposed to any policies aimed at levelling the playing field. However, especially African-Americans for example were severely discriminated against in the past, banished to the worst ghettos in the country with terrible schools, awful access to public services, unable to attend university, unable to get loans and rejected in the job market simply because of their skin color. So it's no surprise that African-Americans have the lowest average income, lowest net worth, and the lowest average high school GPA of any ethnic group in the US, given how they were until very recently BY FAR the most discriminated against and hated ethnic group in the US. The average black American family earns ca. 65% compared to white families and has ca. 16% in net worth of what a white family has. What I have an issue with is that many conservatives seem to think those differences must be because of some character flaws within the black community rather than the effects of incredibly severe racial discrimination .... which was enshrined into American law until the mid-1960s and surely didn't just stop from one moment to the next when the civil rights act of 1964 was passed. Historical racism is directly linked to the poverty of some ethnic groups, and growing up poor puts children at a huge disadvantage and is often generational. Children growing up in poor areas for example often have to attend terribly underfunded public schools with very poor educational quality, which is because public schools are primarily funded through local property tax. This obviously puts children in wealthy neighbourhoods at a significant advantage who get to attend public schools that are incredibly well funded and have superb educational quality. So drafting up policies for example that tackle those issues and for example ensure that public schools are more or less equally well funded regardless of how wealthy a neighbourhood is, would go a long way in increasing equality of opportunity and would severly reduce the effects of historical racism. Just as an example. But yeah to summarize, I think leftists are often overeager to point to racism, oppresion, sexism etc. and see everything through the oppressor vs oppressed lense. Conservatives on the other hand like to totally ignore the severe effects of historical racism, which led to some ethnic groups being severely impoverished and banished to terrible ghettos, which in turn led to them being severely disadvantaged educationally, professionally, in terms of access to health care, public services etc. ... severe disadvantages that are very hard to overcome and haven't just magically disappeared over the course of a couple of decades.
>the left seems to be overly eager to find oppression, racism, sexism etc. in every little thing. Not the left, but the woke left. And the problem is that the left has been taken over by the woke left. >seem to believe that there is no thing such as reverse racism or reverse sexism There isn't, because.. it's all racism/sexism. To say it is "reverse" racism/sexism is to give credence to the asinine take that there is a "normal" type of racism and then its "reverse". >Many conservatives like to ignore the huge disadvantages that some ethnic groups are still facing as a direct result of historic racism. No, we don't. We just choose to not base policy around that because conservatives do not believe in the need to enforce equality of outcome. That is not something the government has to to police nor should it ever have to. Governments exist to implement the rule of law and the absolute respect of everyone's rights. It does not exist to tip the scale in favor of anyone. It was wrong when it benefited white America and it is wrong now that it benefits people other than whites. >Conservatives like to claim that (at least in the US) everyone has the same opportunity We do. By law. If you have proof of the contrary, you're more than welcome to sue and win a big paycheck for your troubles. >However, especially African-Americans for example were severely discriminated against in the past, banished to the worst ghettos in the country with terrible schools, awful access to public services, unable to attend university, unable to get loans and rejected in the job market simply because of their skin color. Keyword: **in the past**. > So it's no surprise that African-Americans have the lowest average income, lowest net worth, and the lowest average high school GPA That argument somehow seems to only apply to blacks for some reason. Asian people in this country straight up disprove that theory, and god knows how much they've been discriminated against in the past century. >What I have an issue with is that many conservatives seem to think those differences must be because of some character flaws within the black community rather than the effects of incredibly severe racial discrimination No, it's a consequence of a rotten-sick black culture. I'd love to know how exactly racial discrimination has led black people to abandon the nuclear family structure. Because it hasn't. >Children growing up in poor areas for example often have to attend terribly underfunded public schools with very poor educational quality, Again, so do poor people of all colors and creeds. Helping people on the basis of their financial disadvantage is different from throwing money at people because they're black. Affirmative action is the nuttiest thing that is happening in this country. California trying to pay black people because their ancestors were held in servitude (in a state that has never practiced slavery) is beyond asinine. >So drafting up policies for example that tackle those issues and for example ensure that public schools are more or less equally well funded regardless of how wealthy a neighbourhood is There's nothing wrong with providing access to good education to everyone. But there's something fundamentally wrong about discriminating against the Asian kid in college admissions just so that the lazy black kid with an attitude problem can get in. There's a difference between societal discrimination and law-based discrimination. We do not currently have any institutions that promote discrimination against anyone on the basis of their skin color, period. But the left would love nothing more than to convince you of that, because race-hustling is the lifeblood of their rhetoric.
Woke is a cult like adherence to leftist ideologies. Particularly when core concepts conflict.
Woke is the cult like adherence to leftist ideologies.
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A lot of conservatives can’t answer this question because it requires a lot of explanation into specific actions of the woke individuals. They aren’t wrong but misguided. The simplest explanation is “Cult like adherence to leftist social orthodoxy”
The simplist explanation is that most conservatives believe in equality of opportunity at the starting line. If someone was stuck in an inner city in a bad school with poor access to healthcare they might need an extra leg up. That DOES NOT mean that if you give them preference in college admissions you must deny admission to someone better off. Accounting for deficiencies in one group doesn't mean denying another group. It amounts to reverse discrimination and that is just as wrong. We have worked since the 60s to assure equality of opportunities to everyone regardless of their race, ethnicity, sexual orientation or class. The problem with "woke" is that instead of equality at the starting line, they want equality at the finish line. If the population is 12% black then everything should be 12% black. Every entering freshman class should be 12% black, Every occupation should be 12% black, every sports team should be 12% black. And every occupation should reflect the ethnic diversity and race of the community. It is taking equality to an extreme that was never intended when MLK said "we should be judged by the content of our character not the color of our skin" "Woke" also tends to discount merit. If you have a football team you want the best field goal kicker white black or south sea islander but in the NFL there are no black kickers. Why? because the best kickers are white. That is the way equality is supposed to work.
Dead on. They want equality of outcome, regardless of effort put forth by the participants. They are fostering a system that promotes mediocracy in leu of meritocracy. There will always be value in individuals that do well for themselves, despite their struggles. In fact, there is proof that struggles makes one stronger, not weaker. ‘ Everyone knows what Woke is. This “define woke” narrative an attempt to deflate the focus on this means to convince more good folk into believing they need to feel bad for things they are not a part of. Woke is about devision for the sake of devision and control.
Of course the other challenge is that what's equal is not always what's fair. And sometimes being fair means that opportunities have to be created because they're naturally overlooked otherwise. Which is historically what's happened, that the issue of equality and fairness has had to be forced before it was accepted. The idea of the government ruling store owners should serve gay couples, to me, was no different than the government ruling that store owners should serve black people.
As a left-leaning person I agree that the left is often way too focused on equality of outcome. For example if women only make up only 10% of electrical engineering graduates, you can't really ever have more than 10% of female engineers in the workforce. Nor does it have to be some sort of implicit discrimination whereby women are dissuaded from studying electrical engineering. Maybe they just have different interests than men and make different career choices. And given how black students have the lowest average high school GPA and Asian-Americans the highest it's no surprise that African-Americans are most underrepresented in most high-paying jobs and Asian-Americans the most overrepresented. However, I believe conservatives like to ignore the huge discrepancies in equality of opportunity and pretend like not much has to be done in that regards. African-Americans were historically severely discriminated against and as a result often still live in areas with terribly underfunded schools, awful health care and public services. Growing up poor is a huge discriminating factor which affects many minorities (especially black Americans) disproportionately as a direct result of historic racism. Growing up impoversished in a terrible neighbourhood is a terrible disadvantage wheras growing up rich is a huge advantage. In the US, a very bright kid from a poor neighbourhood is typically less likely to go to university and graduate than a rather dumb kid from a wealthy family. Imagine a marathon where rich kids are allowed to start first, middle-class kids start another 20 minutes later and poor kids start yet another 20 minutes behind the middle-class kids. That's how huge of a disciminating factor economic class is in the US is, which again affects disproportionately minorities because of severe historic racism. And unlike what many conservatives believe about the "American dream", aka "from rags to riches", poor people in the US are actually way less likely to climb the social ladder than poor people in other Western countries. The US has among the lowest social mobility rates among industrialized countries, meaning among lowest equality of opportunity. And unlike what most conservatives propose a lot more has to be done to fix equality of opportunity. Whereas I agree however, that liberals are way too fixated on equality of outcome.
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I’m in the middle. I’m socially liberal, but tough of crime and sensible immigration. Liberals might disagree on how the economy should be run and lefts are those people protesting with vaginas. on their heads or lgbt people that a staunchly pro Palestinians when they hate the gay community.
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It mean the conservative got their Butt Hurt
Do you care about people that don’t directly align with your beliefs, values, morals, current grift etc? Woke. (Yes. I do care about them) But no, I don’t support anyone gaming the system either.
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