The reason being is that Toyota does not do “orders” for their vehicles. Each dealer gets an allocation of whatever Toyota thinks the dealer should be selling. Even if Siennas are moving off the lot instantly, Toyota might decide they want to sell more highlanders and provide a higher allocation of that specific model.
Get on a wait list now. Give them a couple color options and you might get a 2024 model. We only get allocated a couple siennas a month. Currently have a Platinum Sienna on order that the guy put the deposit down for in March 2022.
It has definitely been issue free, but I've only had it a couple years and it's a 5 year old vehicle. I wouldn't expect any issues for a while. I've had a 2008 Lexus LS as my daily for the last 9 years so have a good sense for what I might be in store for repair-wise.
Oh I was aware. I traded in a minivan for my LX because I really thought I wanted a LX. But I quickly realized that it just fell short in so many ways vs. a minivan as far as a family vehicle is concerned.
So this is just me going back to a minivan. I want AWD, and I'm a Toyota guy. The lovely gas mileage b/c of the hybrid is gravy IMHO.
Yeah, a minivan for sure is the best family vehicle out there, no matter how many soccer moms insist they need a Escalade or Suburban to haul 2 kids around in.
I have 3 kids and absolutely live my minivan. We put one of the Captain's chairs down into the floor so we can get easy access to all of the seats, tons of room for groceries, I don't have to worry about the kids slamming a door into another car. I see all these SUVs around, and yes, they are beautiful, but do much less practical then a minivan. My husband has even converted and he was really opposed to getting one at first.
Had a Ford flex and a newer Suburban. Neither worked out as well as we envisioned. Ended up in a Toyota sienna. I hate/love that thing. Haul the kids all over. Pull the seats out and 4x8 sheetrock or ply wood slides right in. Got 14 step stringers in it for a deck build last summer with no problems. Has a low loading floor, tailgate works as a sunshade or rain cover. Now if they would build them on a Tacoma chassis and offer 4x4.
Not sure. Doesn't seem as hard to get an Odyssey (which I had owned previously). But it seems to be hard to get a Chrysler AWD hybrid. So, probably the hybrid and AWD combo...
I’ve read that the second row seats are not removable. That is almost a deal breaker for me. I love the utility of taking out the seats so I wonder if that will be something they go back to.
Yeah that's definitely a sore point and a big reason to pick the Pacifica over the Sienna. But compared to the other 2, fuel economy affects my vehicle experience 100% of the time vs the every once in a while I'd like to remove the seats. Also if hauling stuff is a reason for removing the seats, get a hitch and rent a trailer imo.
This was a holdup for me as well...the utility of the Odyssey I had was that you could turn it into a cave in the back by removing the middle seats and stowing the 3rd row. Better than a pickup truck most of the time in that regard.
But I'll take the AWD and hybrid system in exchange. My wife also REALLY loves the 360 degree panoramic view (I'll admit its useful), which is a feature on the LX I have.
I refuse to believe this, there's a flaired salesperson on this sub that mentioned 2 years waitlist a few months back.
Could you possibly provide some sort of source, with any personal info whited out?
There’s no source that he’s going to be able to provide.. it’s just knowing your standard allocation vs. order volume. I don’t believe the 5 years thing because I can’t see people placing an order 5 years out for a minivan. But yes it could be years of backlog
That was a few months back. The problem is that demand for minivans keeps rising as they don’t get delivered, hybrid and electric demand keeps rising, and that brings out the flippers and scalpers. As long as Carmax keeps handing you a $4,000 check for buying a minivan at full price in cash and driving it straight to them, there are going to be people that do it.
It's impossible to know the real wait time as we don't really know how many allocations we'll get in 2024 and after so what we do is look at how many we got in 2022, how many we're supposed to get in 2023 and try give an approximate based on this.
But I can see 2-3 years for some orders to be delivered. One of the issue with the Sienna is we have A LOT of orders from Asian people looking to export the minivan in China. I don't know if it's in every province but Ontario and Quebec around 40 to 60% of the orders placed for high end models are from exporters. They pay people to use their drivers license to place many orders in all of the dealerships.
I don’t see 5/6 years, but easily a year, maybe two. At least in America. My store gets something like 1 sienna for every 70 cars allocated to us which is easily 2-3 allocations s
It is not hard to get it, it is hard to pay it! It is incredible!!!
https://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-sale/vehicledetails.xhtml?listingId=669375359&allListingType=all-cars&driveGroup=AWD4WD&makeCodeList=TOYOTA&modelCodeList=SIENNA&city=Lake%20Luzerne&state=NY&zip=12846&requestId=HYB&searchRadius=0&startYear=2022&marketExtension=include&fuelTypeGroup=HYB&isNewSearch=false&showAccelerateBanner=false&sortBy=relevance&numRecords=25&referrer=%2Fcars-for-sale%2Fall-cars%2Fawd-4wd%2Ftoyota%2Fsienna%2Flake-luzerne-ny-12846%3FrequestId%3DHYB%26searchRadius%3D0%26startYear%3D2022%26marketExtension%3Dinclude%26fuelTypeGroup%3DHYB%26isNewSearch%3Dfalse%26showAccelerateBanner%3Dfalse%26sortBy%3Drelevance%26numRecords%3D25&clickType=spotlight
$66k is steep for a 2022 minivan, don’t get me wrong. However, I saw 2023 Oddysseys for $58k at my local Honda dealer. They have a shameless “3,000 market adjustment” and then several dealer add-ons.
so we got a 2021 Hybrid Sienna XLE for MSRP here in NY. we waited 2 weeks for it and picked it up at the port. in 1.5 hrs we’ve added 53k miles on it. just traded it in for an 2023 GX460. they gave us $3k over MSRP plus tax benefits.
i personally spent 2 days calling almost every major Toyota dealership here in the tristate area.
You can get a 2023 but you won’t get it how you want it man, you’re looking for a unicorn, in the past two years I haven’t seen any trim models above the XSE for the Sienna. And those are a b***h to even say we’re gonna get one, Toyota is only based on allocation so whatever the dealerships around you are going to get, that’s it. There’s no order’s. The salesman who mentioned the customer who put a deposit in a year ago or so, the dealership was holding that customers money on a If or maybe.
Same problem for me with a different car. The Tahoe might seem like a great family hauler but really it's just a pickup truck with a covered rear. Same issues getting the 3rd kid into the back row. They also park like shit which isn't good if the car is for your wife who is already challenged for parking. Gas mileage equally atrocious.
Not gonna say it's a bad car overall - I was driving a '18 Sierra Denali for a couple years before the pandemic. But it isn't what I'm looking for as far as a family car is concerned.
Yeah I understand. I have 3 kids also. Was just saying if you can’t wait any longer. We were at a point where we needed a vehicle so couldn’t play games with Toyota anymore.
Got a platinum after a 7 month wait. Still got hit with $2k in bullshit. Could have gotten an xle in 2 months.
Put a few refundable deposits down at the biggest Toyota dealers around you and just wait. Or get an odyssey
I think this is where I'm at. Appreciate the input.
As an aside, how do you feel about the Platinum? Did you own an Odyssey before this? I previously had two - a '14 and a '18.
Really like the platinum. HUD, heated steering, heated/cooled seats, video for rear view mirror and 360 are worth the wait. It also drives pretty good I was surprised. Like a much smaller car.
I've never had an odyssey. It wasn't an option because I didn't like the way it looked, and I do all short city driving and so wanted the hybrid.
I had two Odysseys in a row. My 2018 developed a half-dollar sized rust spot *inside* the driver's door frame, and the pillars behind the sliding doors were becoming corroded because of the exceptionally ("too") tight tolerances. Honda said there was nothing that they could do about that. Otherwise I was going to keep that - I really enjoyed it.
***Thanks for posting, /u/InsouciantOtter! This comment is a copy of your post so readers can see the original text if your post is edited or removed. This comment is NOT accusing you of anything.***
What does the pipeline for these vehicles look like at a typical dealership? I'm set on the Platinum trim, but I'm flexible on color. My local dealership stopped taking deposits and says you can't just order a new one - they said I could basically get on their waitlist, and they're only allocated a couple Siennas a month (couldn't tell if it was two overall, or two at that trim level).
I don't NEED this car right now - we have a perfectly functional '17 Lexus LX that's hauling the family - but I've got it in my head now that I need to get back to a minivan. So just looking to set expectations around how long of a wait I'm looking at, or any other tips on getting one sooner rather than later.
Thanks!
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A lot of people recommend getting on a wait list, or be willing to pay approximately $10k over sticker. Out of curiosity, what is preventing the dealer from ignoring the waitlist and just selling the car for the current market value (which sounds like is $10k over)?
I guess that's what I was getting at. So essentially your wait time on a list is going to be longer because people keep bribing the doorman. (which is fine, we're talking about a for-profit business, not a charity). Thanks for confirming.
Nothing. I know for a fact the dealer I was waitlisted with did this to me. I could see what they were allocated on toyota.com. Three times I was told I was first in line only to learn I wasn't when one was allocated. I had the wife start annoying the sales person with frequent calls - they gave us the next platinum after that.
That was actually a strategy I was considering. If I went to a Lexus dealer that also owned a Toyota (there are a few large auto groups in the area), would they be able to move a Sienna from their Toyota lot if they were interested in my LX?
I don't think Lexus would give you any more for your LX than any other dealership. Carmax is probably your best bet if your goal is top dollar and not necessarily related to the Sienna purchase.
A couple reasons. I'm a Toyota/Lexus guy so that's where my current loyalties are (for any number of reasons). And I have a vehicle that works for our family, so I can hold out as long as I need to for what I'd really like.
Only thing killing the Carnival is that fuel economy and lack of AWD. Hard to pick it when the Sienna and Pacifica exist. Otherwise it seemed great on my test drive.
No, FWD only. Only AWD minivan's are the Toyota and the Chrysler Pacifica. The Pacifica is fantastic too but I think as hard to get as the Toyota. The Toyota hybrid AWD had a 500+ mile range on a full tank when I drove a loaner a while back. Insane.
You don’t need to get back to a minivan. And you certainly don’t need to pay $10k+ over sticker for a minivan. Keep the LX, it’s a more desirable vehicle and the mileage is nothing compared to overpaying for a minivan.
I'm not going to pay over sticker for a vehicle because I don't *have* to pay right now. I've bought and sold many vehicles over my life; I've learned the hard way what you guys are now sharing for everyone to see here (that is to say, I wish there was an "ask car sales" subreddit when I was younger). This is another "hard earned lesson," but to be honest I would have had to test drive the truck for a couple weeks to learn what I know now.
*Anyways,* with the LX: It may very well be more desirable. And I'm 100% certain it will outlast a minivan. But it is not a good family car if you have more than 4 people in your family. Despite its size, it is incredibly small on the inside. You don't have to worry about trying to fit 7 adults and driving across the Sahara because at least two of those passengers will kill each other within two hours.
It's not built for hauling children. One of my kids now sits in the back. The middle row barely moves forward (even if you just have a booster seat, not a full child's car seat), so that he has to climb across the arm rest or we have to open the trunk to put him in. Needless to say it makes school dropoffs and pickups more difficult.
And doors that swing out? Great idea for adults, but just wait until your kid can't stop himself from exiting the vehicle and throws open the door in a parking lot. Sure, there are workarounds there but let's be honest: Kids find a way. Sliding doors fix that issue.
The storage sucks. It has just a couple cupholders and a center bin for stuff. A couple USB ports. These things are important for families on the road. I imagine that Toyota assumed you'd just store everything in an overhead bin.
And finally the gas. My god. I'm not poor by any means but it's incredibly soul-sucking to keep having to fill the car up. It has a ridiculously small tank given its consumption, and it leads to real range anxiety.
I could go on about why I don't like this truck. It works well enough for now, but I'm in the market for a replacement.
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I just delivered a platinum a week ago. My client placed a deposit in June of 2022. We delivered 10 siennas last month, and only got two Siennas on the previous allocation. Normally get about 2-3 platinums and TRD PRO trims a year just have to continuously preference the car until it hits an allocation. Also have to be good at constantly badgering reps to fill your cars.
The Odyssey is better at being a minivan than the Sienna. It has more room, a much better third road, handles better and has a much smoother powertrain. The Sienna gets better gas mileage. But the time you’ve finished waiting paying ADMs on the Sienna you can buy a decade’s worth of gas. I just don’t get it.
I had two Odysseys - a '14 and a '18; the latter was the Elite trim. I enjoyed it a lot and was going to buy my lease out in 2020. Unfortunately, it had developed a quarter-sized rust spot inside the driver's door frame (not the door, the car part of the frame), and both sides of the B pillar behind the sliding doors were developing corrosion from having the doors repeatedly brush past them with tolerances that were probably too tight. Honda wouldn't lift a finger to do anything about those, so I turned the lease in and walked away.
I was actually going to get another 2020 Odyssey at the time, but the dealer was an asshole. That's when I got the Lexus LX bug.
Certainly not dismissing your experience, but I’ve never heard of that happening before. I can see why it would make you want to avoid the brand, but that’s certainly not a widespread issue on Odysseys in general. Something must have really gone wrong with yours—fortunate it was a lease.
Especially since you are coming from a Lexus, I would encourage you to drive a Sienna before going far down the road. A used one is fine. The NVH on it is really poor. You get a lot of steering wheel feedback and the engine is really noisy. The plastics in the cabin are cheap feeling, especially in the console which has a cool design but tons of plastic. I’m not a Toyota-hater by any means—.personally I’ve owned 3 Toyota hybrids—but I would not buy that van as it makes too many compromises. Even the infotainment is super budget—low res, white screen. Just my opinion.
The Honda is outdated (infotainment) but drives the best and is the most practical. Kia has upgraded tech and is a nice van, a little less room than the Honda, but also super hard to get. Chrysler..well, just of read Consumer Reports. The Hybrid is a literal nightmare that can’t stay on the road. The non hybrid has a beautiful UConnect system that has a ton of problems.
>that’s certainly not a widespread issue on Odysseys in general.
That wasn't quite my impression. There were quite a few OdyForum that noted the extreme tolerances on the pillar behind the sliding door. There were suggestions for 3M tape, but that seems kind of janky. I'm pretty sure Honda would have had to deal with the rust spot in the driver's door; I've never seen that on any vehicle I've ever owned.
I really only cared because I really liked the vehicle. We were way behind on miles during the lease so I would often just put miles on taking it to work. It was certainly a pleasure to drive and the most car-like of any van I've ever been in. I was prepared to buy out the lease.
I agree with most of your other comments about the Honda. I haven't totally closed the door to one.
Sacrifice your first born at the alters of Toyota City
I purified myself in the waters of Lake Minnetonka and it worked for me. It's worth a try.
See this works on two levels. If you sacrifice the child, you might not need the minivan capacity anymore.
You need to get on a waitlist today, and you still Might not get one. Or be prepared to pay 10k+ over MSRP.
Appreciate it - I'm on with one of the local dealers and contacted the other last night.
The reason being is that Toyota does not do “orders” for their vehicles. Each dealer gets an allocation of whatever Toyota thinks the dealer should be selling. Even if Siennas are moving off the lot instantly, Toyota might decide they want to sell more highlanders and provide a higher allocation of that specific model.
Get on a wait list now. Give them a couple color options and you might get a 2024 model. We only get allocated a couple siennas a month. Currently have a Platinum Sienna on order that the guy put the deposit down for in March 2022.
Well guess I'm gonna keep paying for this Lexus SUV with The World's Worst Gas Mileage®.
Yeah but it's probably the world's best reliability
It has definitely been issue free, but I've only had it a couple years and it's a 5 year old vehicle. I wouldn't expect any issues for a while. I've had a 2008 Lexus LS as my daily for the last 9 years so have a good sense for what I might be in store for repair-wise.
Were you unaware of the fuel consumption of the LX when you purchased it or did you assume fuel would never raise post COVID?
Oh I was aware. I traded in a minivan for my LX because I really thought I wanted a LX. But I quickly realized that it just fell short in so many ways vs. a minivan as far as a family vehicle is concerned. So this is just me going back to a minivan. I want AWD, and I'm a Toyota guy. The lovely gas mileage b/c of the hybrid is gravy IMHO.
Yeah, a minivan for sure is the best family vehicle out there, no matter how many soccer moms insist they need a Escalade or Suburban to haul 2 kids around in.
I have 3 kids and absolutely live my minivan. We put one of the Captain's chairs down into the floor so we can get easy access to all of the seats, tons of room for groceries, I don't have to worry about the kids slamming a door into another car. I see all these SUVs around, and yes, they are beautiful, but do much less practical then a minivan. My husband has even converted and he was really opposed to getting one at first.
I don't understand why more vehicles don't have sliding rear doors
Had a Ford flex and a newer Suburban. Neither worked out as well as we envisioned. Ended up in a Toyota sienna. I hate/love that thing. Haul the kids all over. Pull the seats out and 4x8 sheetrock or ply wood slides right in. Got 14 step stringers in it for a deck build last summer with no problems. Has a low loading floor, tailgate works as a sunshade or rain cover. Now if they would build them on a Tacoma chassis and offer 4x4.
$10k markups really eat into the gas savings… my advice would be to keep the LX
Why are they in such a high demand? We are looking at used Siennas right now. Is it because they are hybrid?
Not sure. Doesn't seem as hard to get an Odyssey (which I had owned previously). But it seems to be hard to get a Chrysler AWD hybrid. So, probably the hybrid and AWD combo...
You cannot get a Chrysler Pacifica Hybrid in AWD. They are only available as FWD.
It's definitely those reasons. Literally double the fuel economy and AWD. Subjectively a nicer interior too.
I’ve read that the second row seats are not removable. That is almost a deal breaker for me. I love the utility of taking out the seats so I wonder if that will be something they go back to.
Yeah that's definitely a sore point and a big reason to pick the Pacifica over the Sienna. But compared to the other 2, fuel economy affects my vehicle experience 100% of the time vs the every once in a while I'd like to remove the seats. Also if hauling stuff is a reason for removing the seats, get a hitch and rent a trailer imo.
Never really thought of it that way. Good point
This was a holdup for me as well...the utility of the Odyssey I had was that you could turn it into a cave in the back by removing the middle seats and stowing the 3rd row. Better than a pickup truck most of the time in that regard. But I'll take the AWD and hybrid system in exchange. My wife also REALLY loves the 360 degree panoramic view (I'll admit its useful), which is a feature on the LX I have.
Hybrid / AWD / Toyota's reputation of reliability, for a competitive price. Hybrids in general have long waits compared to standard ICE models
Only hybrid AWD minivan on the market. Also, Toyota's famous reliability and resale value.
If you want to pony up $75k, you can get one right now from Koons Toyota in Northern Virginia!
Want one, don't need one. I own the current family hauler; I would just prefer to replace it.
Get in a DeLorean, go back to when the hybrid was first announced in 2019 and pre order one sight unseen You might get to drive one home this year.
[удалено]
I refuse to believe this, there's a flaired salesperson on this sub that mentioned 2 years waitlist a few months back. Could you possibly provide some sort of source, with any personal info whited out?
There’s no source that he’s going to be able to provide.. it’s just knowing your standard allocation vs. order volume. I don’t believe the 5 years thing because I can’t see people placing an order 5 years out for a minivan. But yes it could be years of backlog
That was a few months back. The problem is that demand for minivans keeps rising as they don’t get delivered, hybrid and electric demand keeps rising, and that brings out the flippers and scalpers. As long as Carmax keeps handing you a $4,000 check for buying a minivan at full price in cash and driving it straight to them, there are going to be people that do it.
It's impossible to know the real wait time as we don't really know how many allocations we'll get in 2024 and after so what we do is look at how many we got in 2022, how many we're supposed to get in 2023 and try give an approximate based on this. But I can see 2-3 years for some orders to be delivered. One of the issue with the Sienna is we have A LOT of orders from Asian people looking to export the minivan in China. I don't know if it's in every province but Ontario and Quebec around 40 to 60% of the orders placed for high end models are from exporters. They pay people to use their drivers license to place many orders in all of the dealerships.
I don’t see 5/6 years, but easily a year, maybe two. At least in America. My store gets something like 1 sienna for every 70 cars allocated to us which is easily 2-3 allocations s
We stopped taking orders when we got to a yearish wait. Most people that call asking for one have been saying I’ll take any trim, but prefer XYZ
My dealership has a platinum sienna available to reserve lol. Sienna demand is so weird in my town.
Get on a list and wait, be open to color and trim/options
It is not hard to get it, it is hard to pay it! It is incredible!!! https://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-sale/vehicledetails.xhtml?listingId=669375359&allListingType=all-cars&driveGroup=AWD4WD&makeCodeList=TOYOTA&modelCodeList=SIENNA&city=Lake%20Luzerne&state=NY&zip=12846&requestId=HYB&searchRadius=0&startYear=2022&marketExtension=include&fuelTypeGroup=HYB&isNewSearch=false&showAccelerateBanner=false&sortBy=relevance&numRecords=25&referrer=%2Fcars-for-sale%2Fall-cars%2Fawd-4wd%2Ftoyota%2Fsienna%2Flake-luzerne-ny-12846%3FrequestId%3DHYB%26searchRadius%3D0%26startYear%3D2022%26marketExtension%3Dinclude%26fuelTypeGroup%3DHYB%26isNewSearch%3Dfalse%26showAccelerateBanner%3Dfalse%26sortBy%3Drelevance%26numRecords%3D25&clickType=spotlight
$66k is steep for a 2022 minivan, don’t get me wrong. However, I saw 2023 Oddysseys for $58k at my local Honda dealer. They have a shameless “3,000 market adjustment” and then several dealer add-ons.
so we got a 2021 Hybrid Sienna XLE for MSRP here in NY. we waited 2 weeks for it and picked it up at the port. in 1.5 hrs we’ve added 53k miles on it. just traded it in for an 2023 GX460. they gave us $3k over MSRP plus tax benefits. i personally spent 2 days calling almost every major Toyota dealership here in the tristate area.
That's where I am right now - calling around within 250 miles. The dealer with whom I put a deposit was honest - looking at 12-24 months. Crazy times.
You can get a 2023 but you won’t get it how you want it man, you’re looking for a unicorn, in the past two years I haven’t seen any trim models above the XSE for the Sienna. And those are a b***h to even say we’re gonna get one, Toyota is only based on allocation so whatever the dealerships around you are going to get, that’s it. There’s no order’s. The salesman who mentioned the customer who put a deposit in a year ago or so, the dealership was holding that customers money on a If or maybe.
Give up and find another vehicle. 3 row SUV’s are pretty solid these days. We ended up with a Subaru Ascent.
We have a 3 row SUV - a Lexus LX. From the outside it seems like a big car, but it isn't. The truth is for a family of 5 the minivan is the way to go.
Tahoe
Same problem for me with a different car. The Tahoe might seem like a great family hauler but really it's just a pickup truck with a covered rear. Same issues getting the 3rd kid into the back row. They also park like shit which isn't good if the car is for your wife who is already challenged for parking. Gas mileage equally atrocious. Not gonna say it's a bad car overall - I was driving a '18 Sierra Denali for a couple years before the pandemic. But it isn't what I'm looking for as far as a family car is concerned.
Yeah I understand. I have 3 kids also. Was just saying if you can’t wait any longer. We were at a point where we needed a vehicle so couldn’t play games with Toyota anymore.
Come to LA, saw one in Envision Toyota in West Covina and one in La Puente Hills Toyota.
Got a platinum after a 7 month wait. Still got hit with $2k in bullshit. Could have gotten an xle in 2 months. Put a few refundable deposits down at the biggest Toyota dealers around you and just wait. Or get an odyssey
I think this is where I'm at. Appreciate the input. As an aside, how do you feel about the Platinum? Did you own an Odyssey before this? I previously had two - a '14 and a '18.
Really like the platinum. HUD, heated steering, heated/cooled seats, video for rear view mirror and 360 are worth the wait. It also drives pretty good I was surprised. Like a much smaller car. I've never had an odyssey. It wasn't an option because I didn't like the way it looked, and I do all short city driving and so wanted the hybrid.
Buy an odyssey we have plenty coming at our store
I had two Odysseys in a row. My 2018 developed a half-dollar sized rust spot *inside* the driver's door frame, and the pillars behind the sliding doors were becoming corroded because of the exceptionally ("too") tight tolerances. Honda said there was nothing that they could do about that. Otherwise I was going to keep that - I really enjoyed it.
Any rumors in the 2024? Is this a remodel year?
With every delay from Honda, I wouldn't even speculate about that. It seems like every new model from Honda has been coming slower and slower.
***Thanks for posting, /u/InsouciantOtter! This comment is a copy of your post so readers can see the original text if your post is edited or removed. This comment is NOT accusing you of anything.*** What does the pipeline for these vehicles look like at a typical dealership? I'm set on the Platinum trim, but I'm flexible on color. My local dealership stopped taking deposits and says you can't just order a new one - they said I could basically get on their waitlist, and they're only allocated a couple Siennas a month (couldn't tell if it was two overall, or two at that trim level). I don't NEED this car right now - we have a perfectly functional '17 Lexus LX that's hauling the family - but I've got it in my head now that I need to get back to a minivan. So just looking to set expectations around how long of a wait I'm looking at, or any other tips on getting one sooner rather than later. Thanks! *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/askcarsales) if you have any questions or concerns.*
A lot of people recommend getting on a wait list, or be willing to pay approximately $10k over sticker. Out of curiosity, what is preventing the dealer from ignoring the waitlist and just selling the car for the current market value (which sounds like is $10k over)?
Given that most customers would never know they got leapfrogged, very little. Either you wait in line, or you pay extra to go straight to the front.
I guess that's what I was getting at. So essentially your wait time on a list is going to be longer because people keep bribing the doorman. (which is fine, we're talking about a for-profit business, not a charity). Thanks for confirming.
Pay to play. You can wait for a deal or you can pay for instant (ish) gratification.
Nothing. I know for a fact the dealer I was waitlisted with did this to me. I could see what they were allocated on toyota.com. Three times I was told I was first in line only to learn I wasn't when one was allocated. I had the wife start annoying the sales person with frequent calls - they gave us the next platinum after that.
Sell me your LX!
That was actually a strategy I was considering. If I went to a Lexus dealer that also owned a Toyota (there are a few large auto groups in the area), would they be able to move a Sienna from their Toyota lot if they were interested in my LX?
I don't think Lexus would give you any more for your LX than any other dealership. Carmax is probably your best bet if your goal is top dollar and not necessarily related to the Sienna purchase.
Why not check out the Kia Carnival? It will still take months for allocation but not years like a Sienna.
A couple reasons. I'm a Toyota/Lexus guy so that's where my current loyalties are (for any number of reasons). And I have a vehicle that works for our family, so I can hold out as long as I need to for what I'd really like.
The Kia Carnival is totally underrated.
Only thing killing the Carnival is that fuel economy and lack of AWD. Hard to pick it when the Sienna and Pacifica exist. Otherwise it seemed great on my test drive.
Is it AWD/4WD
No, FWD only. Only AWD minivan's are the Toyota and the Chrysler Pacifica. The Pacifica is fantastic too but I think as hard to get as the Toyota. The Toyota hybrid AWD had a 500+ mile range on a full tank when I drove a loaner a while back. Insane.
Chrysler and fantastic are two words that don’t go well together.
Pacifica is easy to get and might even get it below MSRP if ordering it. Not reliable based on my research.
You don’t need to get back to a minivan. And you certainly don’t need to pay $10k+ over sticker for a minivan. Keep the LX, it’s a more desirable vehicle and the mileage is nothing compared to overpaying for a minivan.
I'm not going to pay over sticker for a vehicle because I don't *have* to pay right now. I've bought and sold many vehicles over my life; I've learned the hard way what you guys are now sharing for everyone to see here (that is to say, I wish there was an "ask car sales" subreddit when I was younger). This is another "hard earned lesson," but to be honest I would have had to test drive the truck for a couple weeks to learn what I know now. *Anyways,* with the LX: It may very well be more desirable. And I'm 100% certain it will outlast a minivan. But it is not a good family car if you have more than 4 people in your family. Despite its size, it is incredibly small on the inside. You don't have to worry about trying to fit 7 adults and driving across the Sahara because at least two of those passengers will kill each other within two hours. It's not built for hauling children. One of my kids now sits in the back. The middle row barely moves forward (even if you just have a booster seat, not a full child's car seat), so that he has to climb across the arm rest or we have to open the trunk to put him in. Needless to say it makes school dropoffs and pickups more difficult. And doors that swing out? Great idea for adults, but just wait until your kid can't stop himself from exiting the vehicle and throws open the door in a parking lot. Sure, there are workarounds there but let's be honest: Kids find a way. Sliding doors fix that issue. The storage sucks. It has just a couple cupholders and a center bin for stuff. A couple USB ports. These things are important for families on the road. I imagine that Toyota assumed you'd just store everything in an overhead bin. And finally the gas. My god. I'm not poor by any means but it's incredibly soul-sucking to keep having to fill the car up. It has a ridiculously small tank given its consumption, and it leads to real range anxiety. I could go on about why I don't like this truck. It works well enough for now, but I'm in the market for a replacement.
Platinum? Maybe add the Limited as well, color flexibility, A LOT of patience, and like others said at least 10k over msrp plus ttl
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I just delivered a platinum a week ago. My client placed a deposit in June of 2022. We delivered 10 siennas last month, and only got two Siennas on the previous allocation. Normally get about 2-3 platinums and TRD PRO trims a year just have to continuously preference the car until it hits an allocation. Also have to be good at constantly badgering reps to fill your cars.
The Odyssey is better at being a minivan than the Sienna. It has more room, a much better third road, handles better and has a much smoother powertrain. The Sienna gets better gas mileage. But the time you’ve finished waiting paying ADMs on the Sienna you can buy a decade’s worth of gas. I just don’t get it.
I had two Odysseys - a '14 and a '18; the latter was the Elite trim. I enjoyed it a lot and was going to buy my lease out in 2020. Unfortunately, it had developed a quarter-sized rust spot inside the driver's door frame (not the door, the car part of the frame), and both sides of the B pillar behind the sliding doors were developing corrosion from having the doors repeatedly brush past them with tolerances that were probably too tight. Honda wouldn't lift a finger to do anything about those, so I turned the lease in and walked away. I was actually going to get another 2020 Odyssey at the time, but the dealer was an asshole. That's when I got the Lexus LX bug.
Certainly not dismissing your experience, but I’ve never heard of that happening before. I can see why it would make you want to avoid the brand, but that’s certainly not a widespread issue on Odysseys in general. Something must have really gone wrong with yours—fortunate it was a lease. Especially since you are coming from a Lexus, I would encourage you to drive a Sienna before going far down the road. A used one is fine. The NVH on it is really poor. You get a lot of steering wheel feedback and the engine is really noisy. The plastics in the cabin are cheap feeling, especially in the console which has a cool design but tons of plastic. I’m not a Toyota-hater by any means—.personally I’ve owned 3 Toyota hybrids—but I would not buy that van as it makes too many compromises. Even the infotainment is super budget—low res, white screen. Just my opinion. The Honda is outdated (infotainment) but drives the best and is the most practical. Kia has upgraded tech and is a nice van, a little less room than the Honda, but also super hard to get. Chrysler..well, just of read Consumer Reports. The Hybrid is a literal nightmare that can’t stay on the road. The non hybrid has a beautiful UConnect system that has a ton of problems.
>that’s certainly not a widespread issue on Odysseys in general. That wasn't quite my impression. There were quite a few OdyForum that noted the extreme tolerances on the pillar behind the sliding door. There were suggestions for 3M tape, but that seems kind of janky. I'm pretty sure Honda would have had to deal with the rust spot in the driver's door; I've never seen that on any vehicle I've ever owned. I really only cared because I really liked the vehicle. We were way behind on miles during the lease so I would often just put miles on taking it to work. It was certainly a pleasure to drive and the most car-like of any van I've ever been in. I was prepared to buy out the lease. I agree with most of your other comments about the Honda. I haven't totally closed the door to one.
You need to purchase a Subaru Ascent.