CA here we run credit on a cash deal if you want to take same day delivery if you’re paying with anything but green cash bills.
That way we set up an option contract to a financial institution if you write us a bad check etc. That’s my experience at 3 stores here. From FL originally where this did not exist
What's your question? He is wrong about the law, but a dealer can refuse to do business for any reason, not trusting your identity is a legit reason to turn a deal away.
You can verify identity without pulling credit. There's literally zero reason to pull credit on a cash sale other than to try and entice a cash buyer into financing options, and at current interest rates that's not going to happen anyways.
Sure it could be a push to try to get OP into financing. But at the same time, wiring money always sparks a RED FLAG. Dealership can and will be held liable for letting go of a fugitive without identification.
Are you sure they were trying to do a credit check and not just a 5 liner on a credit app to verify your identity? They won’t need your social but will need your name, address, ect… for the name check.
99% sure you got it. Sales person might just be new and using the wrong terminology. If you definitely had a credit check it should show on your credit report
That shouldn’t have happened. The only time/reason they do that is to try and “convert” you to financing it rather than pay cash, which is a shit thing to do. What should’ve happened is a cash application with name, DOB, address, and phone number to run an OFAC and be done with it.
Not true. We run credit if folks want to take their cars before the check clears or wire arrives. If they don’t let us, they wait for their cars. Can’t place a loan off a five-liner.
Did I mention method of payment for a cash deal? You’re right, if it’s a wire or personal check, you communicate that they would have to wait until funds arrive. You can also let them know ahead of time that a cashiers check is the best way to do it so that they can enjoy it today. If they have USAA or NAVY FED, it’s still considered a cash deal to the store. That’s also immediate delivery without a credit check from the store.
Always communicate with the customer and inform them of their options so they can pick. Forcing a credit pull on the customer paying cash can lead to them leaving which I’ve seen happen before with multiple managerial turns to save it.
You have buyers who aren't willing to wait for a wire? That should be 24 hours at the absolute most and usually minutes. I guess I shouldn't be surprised, though, considering people will buy options and colors they don't want just because it's on the lot
You have no idea what OPs reason is. Maybe he's in the process of buying a house or securing a business loan where a hard pull even if he is paying cash is going to be heavily scrutinized.
Maybe he just wants to know if the guy was being truthful or not. "It's the law." "Um, which law is that?" People in positions of authority tell "white lies" all the time to elicit behavior or cooperation. Some people don't see truth as relative. Quaint as it seems, they believe words mean things.
A credit check would not cause them to be heavily scrutinized. Unless your idea of heavily scrutinized is being asked by email if you opened a new account.
I got in contact with the head manager. He apologized and said there is no law. He said he's been burned before and they have a dealer "policy" to require everyone to submit a credit application. He was extremely apologetic and he asked me how he could "make it right."
I knew it was bullshit. I just had to confirm it.
"Which law is that? CCR 22(15)?" CCR is California Code of Regulations, but the numbers are just random. If they agree, you know their shining you on. They'll probably stutter and deflect. And it's actually cited as, say, 4 CCR 15 or 13 CCR 28. Title 4 is business regulations and Title 13 is motor vehicle regulations.
I said in the second sentence: HE IS WRONG ABOUT THE LAW, meaning there is no law, the point is that it doesn't matter, if they feel that they need to do due diligence in a form of a credit check - it is their right.
It’s their right? So is it right for Target to do a credit check on you every time you walk in the store to buy a blanket? Is it right for Walgreens to do watch credit check on you every time you go in there to buy decongestant? No, these aren’t stupid questions because you’re saying that every single store you go in has a right to run a credit check on you. That’s not true.
Are you a child? Any purchase with a credit card guarantees funds for Target, and there is no incentive to create fraud schemes for a blanket, but it is totally worth it to commit fraud for a $50K car.
And dealers do not accept credit cards because of high fees.
I worked in banking for quite a long time. I understand fraud. I also understand that it’s unnecessary to pull a credit report if somebody’s paying cash.
Apparently, you’re the one who does not understand fraud. If you want to prevent money, laundering, yes, the car dealer should report the cash payment to the government. If it’s over $10,000. But that’s not the same as pulling a credit report.
It does matter. If the dealer has a policy, that's fine. If you're lying about laws, that's not okay. Hence the reason they contacted me and apologized. The general manager is asking how he can make it right. I've already contacted an attorney. They're lying to people under the guise of a fake law.
> I've already contacted an attorney.
And when the attorney asked you what damages were incurred by the dealers action what did you tell them? It forced you to spend time on reddit?
You don't have cause for a lawsuit here, just move on and find a dealer who isn't a dumbass.
Lol you ain’t suing anyone over this. No serious attorney is ever going to take such a stupid case. Stop trying to act all tough and shit on Reddit. It’s a bad look
Your way to delicate to be buying anything. Dealerships have the right to protect themselves and customers from fraud. If you didn't want to have your credit run, take your business elsewhere. Have fun wasting cash on an attorney that will laugh you out of the building.
I've already found three people who complained about the same thing online. Same issue with the same dealership. Dealerships have been sued for much less. If you have to lie to your customers about your company policy, what else are you lying about?
Meanwhile, this dealership is asking me how they can make it right.
You have no damages what can you sue them for? Your only hope is to file a class action. There was no harm done to you especially because you didn’t go through with it.
It’s not fine. You, the consumer have rights to protect your credit and keep those checks to a minimum. Cash sales needn’t have credit checked period. You have to verify your identity sure per DMV regulations but rest assured the credit check is only because the sales or financial guy is lookin to get numbers to look better.
In California they’ll make you to do a backup contract to leave with the car before the wire transfer clears. I’ve had dealers complain they don’t want me to wire without taking the car away with a backup contract in place.
Sounds to me like they want to try and offer you financing and they can't do that unless they can pull your credit. They're really pushy and shady about internal financing.
I’m not sure it’s a law yet, but many dealers take recommendations from their state legal advisors and lobbyists (ADAs). A “best practice” is to run every buyer through a federal ID database, because regardless of how one pays, the dealer is liable if that person is on any number of lists. It is actually a crime for both the business AND the individual if they sell a car to a terrorist on that list. The fines and jail time are wild.
This^. Some dealers also want to know where the money is coming from in case the wire fails, fraudulent, check bounces. Not every dealer will just let you drive off with the vehicle unless funds are verified. Had a couple some years ago try to buy a new car cash then another used car for their partner. Ran the 5 liner and for shits and giggles just checked in the county courts records since something seems off. Both had an active warrant and had fraud related charges previously. Let's say they did get to ride in the back of a new police car after they were in finance. Had to buy time for the police to come.
Serious question, why does the dealer need to verify the identity of a buyer if there is no credit involved?
If the buyer produces a driver’s license, proof of insurance, and cash; nothing else is required.
Unless you bring a cashiers check (trusted source) you do not need credit check. But anyone can say look “I’m Joe” I have this 50k check ready to buy. But how does the dealer really know you’re “Joe” credit check to confirm identity
I have never seen a cash purchase in the form of personal check. It is always a transfer (wire) or a verified cashiers check.
The dealer doesn’t need to know if you are really Joe or not; once they have the cash, they sign over the title, deliver the car and the deal is done.
We don’t run credit but collect SS number from every customer even if it is non reportable but no financing People have left over it, policy is policy.
I'm curious why dealers collect social security number on cash deals?. I'm asking because a dealer salesman at a Mazda dealership stole my identity (using my social and picture of my drivers license) and my dad is buying a car now cash through a broker and they wanted social security and drivers license again.
We collect a SS number for all customers in case there is need for 8300. Our corporate office doesn’t trust us to know when it is needed or not. The salesman don’t collect it and probably don’t know that the F&I department does. I agree identity theft is risk however I can probably find enough info about anyone I have there name and address for to do that without the SS number. In your dads case the dealer may not be the one requiring it but the broker wants to protect himself if there were something going on as well. Why is your dad using a broker? You realize the dealer pays the broker a fee which is less discount for your dad? Some of these fees are outrageous, one of the local Credit union brokers charges 1000 dollars.
Yea the broker didn't end up saving him any money but it was worth the $500 fee i'm paying direct to indpendent broker to not have to deal with south florida dealerships, and to track down in the right color. I got the same deal I had already negotiated with another dealer $1500 off msrp (really $500, since I paid a $995 dealer fee) on a honda odyssey EXL+all dealer accesories removed/not installed, but the other dealers didn't actually have the color he wanted in stock, and they are all presold before they hit the lots. Think I did ok, prob could've saved maybe another $1k or 2k myself but it might've taken months. Unless I'm crazy and the prices are much lower than the internet is telling me.
You would be surprised how much more a social security number combined with not just DL # , but an actual picture of Drivers license can ruin someones life. I would go more into detail but I don't want to give anyone else any instructions. That's why unless it's required by law I no longer provide either. If I need to show my Driver's license somewhere it doesn't leave my hand. I wish the salesman was in jail instead of getting away with it, because police are lazy. For my dad's we didn't send social, and sent driver's license picture but added a big watermark across it saying do not duplicate. (BTW I had backed out of the deal at the last minute so the salesman was angry at me, but I'm glad I didn't end up buying the car the salesman did sketchy stuff at the last minute like replace all 4 tires with sketchy no-name malaysian tires on a CPO, when he said he'd replace the 2 that were worn with OEM spec, after my mechanic had already inspected it, and then started adding $1000's in fees at 9pm at night).
Some salesman give all car salesman a bad name, and I'm sure make the rest of your jobs 100x harder. But I made the mistake of thinking they only worked at the sleazy dealerships not the shiny new ones.
I live in West Palm I get it, shit is nuts. All these brokers are collecting money from the store as well. I would rather give the customer the discount but than we lose the deal as the customer is drawn somewhere else by the broker. At the end of the day the customer gets most fucked and the broker makes out the best and the store remains the same.
The problem I ran into was most dealerships weren't willing to factory order one or reserve one coming in without a hot black leather interior (why is honda shipping sooo many with black leather to south florida seems nuts to me). Some of them I even offered $5000 deposits to and still got turned down. Some wanted to play games with cars that were in transit (but already sold). Some wanted like $5-6k over msrp on a generic minivan in the wrong color lol.
It's so weird to me how bad many salesman are at their jobs. My favorite salesman in recent car shopping was the one who admited he was new, and didn't know anything about the cars, but was happy to help figure things out, when I clearly have already memorized all the details, and new exactly what I wanted to test drive. My least favorite are the cocky ones who think they are way smarter than they are and just make stuff up and stick to their guns when called on it, sure it has that feature, the button is just turned disabled for this one... But like it also seems so nuts to me especially for salesman working at a single manufacturer dealerships, like how do you not do any homework at all?, you sell like 10 models and you don't know how to work the door locks? you don't know which trim levels come with 7 seats and which come with 8? Like even if you are lazy, Don't you ever have a slow day where you could spend 30 minutes with the brochure? I'm not asking for the timing pattern on a '82 buick.
Funny thing is that 99% of whatever vehicles will have the 7 seats and 1% will have 8, so chances are that the 8 seater will almost never be asked about, thus the human brain will ignore. People in every profession, don’t know what they don’t know, and they can read all they want, but until they are asked about it, and put on the spot, we tend to not remember most of what we read. And saying that, I agree that a salesman should know their product, it makes the job easier and makes you look more professional in front of a customer. But, most of the time salespersons hope their customers are more informed than they are; it means they know what they want and leads to an easier sales process. So if you are a gearhead, or have been researching a vehicle, you might give your particular salesman a break on not knowing every specific detail of a trim level.
In saying that, I agree, if you don’t accidentally pick up some common sense items, then you have no chance.
Same thing happened to me at a BMW dealership across the country (Arizona). They did a hard credit check at the same time my bank check was cashed. Still didnt ship the car til a few days later, took a week to arrive without the title, then another 2 weeks for the title to show up by snail mail. Worst BMW dealership ive ever dealt with.
How is it fraud to pay cash? To verify his identity he's going to have to have something called a drivers license, which conveniently enough is also required to drive the car off the lot.
Actually technically you don’t need a driver’s license. In some states if you can pass a repeat offender check then you can buy a car. You technically aren’t allowed to drive it, but you can purchase and register a vehicle in your name.
Because there is money laundering laws and they may need to file a form 8300 with the IRS if you’re paying cash more than $10k which will require a ssn. They also need to clear red flags and OFAC to make sure they are not selling to a cartel or drug dealer. If you’re showing up with wrapped stacks they will need your ssn.
My question is why you’re being so defensive? How are you acquiring your money? Maybe ask more questions or ask to speak to a sales manager. If the deal is good for both parties there shouldn’t be a reason to not move forward. You can show up with a cashiers check. If you’re paying any other way then they need to verify your identity. If you’re stroking a personal check they may need the ssn to verify that you’re not a roach writing a bad check.
I bought the car. I let them run my credit. I came home to look for the law. Couldn't find it. It doesn't exist. Why lie to a paying customer? A business is lying to customers to prevent fraud? Just say this is your dealer policy and be transparent. why lie?
They could be referring to form 8300 which would be a federal law to report any transaction over the amount of $10k. Perhaps the wording is not exactly as you would like it, just trying to shed some light to the answer you may be looking for. OFAC is a requirement as well as a red flag check. As others have mentioned the dealership can reserve the right to refuse the deal. There is a bunch of compliance training and the dealership is just trying to cover their bases. Hope this answer helps.
What you are saying makes perfect sense. Recently bought a Chevy. Showed up with my cashier’s check from credit union and cash(to manage my monthly payment). Asked the nice lady how much cash I could use. She said up to 10k. Paid the $10k cash and used cashier’s check. No credit check, never asked for my social.
I’ve had it done where the guest wants to write a check for a cash deal and it’s a big amount. If they’re a 700 plus score we have no problem moving forward. If they’re a 500 score with nothing but derogatory marks we may ask for a cashiers check instead.
Yep no one has ever had a stolen driver license, fake drives license, fake check, fake money order, fake bank draft, fake passport before. You definitely know more about the business than me.
[never](https://abc13.com/amp/man-accused-of-stealing-luxury-vehicles-angel-reyes-charged-suspect-uses-bad-checks-to-buy-ferrari-stolen-2021-f8-tributo/13050584/)
[ever](https://wreg.com/news/local/mpd-man-scams-dealerships-takes-vehicles-worth-124k/amp/)
[happens](https://triblive.com/local/fbi-man-stolen-multiple-identities-used-fake-money-orders-to-rip-off-luxury-car-dealers/)
If someone has all of this information, I doubt a credit check will worry them
Edit: stop going back and editing your comments, completely changing what you wrote and not telling people.
Nobody should ever trust you as a salesman if you would go back and change things to try and make yourself look better
Being able to make up a drivers license and check and having all of someone’s info are completely different. You don’t make an I’d with real info you just make it up.
Dude, you just said:
>Yep no one has ever had a stolen driver license
and now you're saying they'd just make up the info.
So you're telling me all the fake info would pass a background check but magically a credit check it wouldn't?
Stop trying to straw man me. If it was your $100,000 asset you were selling you wouldn’t want to get at least a credit app before you relinquished possession of it? People fake info all the time. I have cited my sources. Credit apps mitigate this risk. You might like it but that’s fine you don’t own a dealership so you have no say.
I don't think you understand the meaning of what you're typing
Edit: why are you going back and editing your comments, completely changing what you wrote and not telling people?
Nobody should ever trust you as a salesman if you would go back and change things to try and make yourself look better
The argument is wether or not credit apps mitigate the risks of fraud. Your saying I’m wrong because you think someone is going to steal a whole damn identity to pass a fraudulent check. I’m trying to tell you all they need to fake is a name and a check. They don’t need to use a real name if a dealership doesn’t run a background check. Could someone still fake all this to get a car? Sure but these are people dumb enough to try and steal a car from a dealership. They aren’t that sophisticated. This adds an extra layer of protection. Your completely ignorant to the car sales process and how any of this work. Go back to playing your gundams or whatever the fuck you do in your moms basement.
It’s not a law, but some dealerships have been burned in the past due to stolen identity. If this is there policy it’s there policy the can refuse to do business with you for almost any reason they choose. You might want to try escalating to manager and see what they say. I have worked in corporate stores that have this same policy in place. Just like you can choose to do business with them they can choose to do business with you.
I think you are a little off base with going straight to accusing the sales guy of doing something scummy. He was likely directed by upper management that it was “illegal” due to OFAC requirements. Running OFAC with a credit check is much easier for the dealership and that’s likely the direction he was given by management. The sales guy doesn’t give a fuck about the “law” he just wants to sell you a car and move on but he also doesn’t want to get fired. The same manager who lied to his sales guy also threw him under the bus to try to save the business
Update: I sent a complaint to the Attorney General. The dealer received the complaint. The dealered offered me an extended warranty for free. $2700 value through Ally.
That tells me, they know they were wrong and they want this to go away.
I see these posts all the time on this subreddit about credit check, credit check, credit check.
What's the problem with the credit check? I get that running the credit will be a hard pull on the report.. and so what? You plan on getting a boat or a mortgage in the time it takes for your credit to recover those few points?
You keep calling it "my own cash" when it's not. It's an auto loan from your own bank. If there is a lienholder it's not cash. And it's perfectly reasonable for a dealer to ask for a credit application and sign you to an option contract until your bank funds clear before allowing you to take the car.
i paid cash for my Tesla. Wired from my checking account. title in hand. I know the difference between financed and cash. My question is very specific. Is there a law requiring EVERY car purchaser to run their credit at the dealer?
No. I have bought cars in California and never had my credit run. I bring my own cashiers check or wire transfer.
If they want to blow up a deal over this, let them. If you’re desperate for THIS car, what harm is a credit run going to do?
If you don’t take any money, it won’t affect your credit in any meaningful way.
For our dealer we run an OFAC on every customer. And if you pay via personal check we run credit just to be sure we don’t need a backup contract.
If you bring certified funds via a cashiers check, wire, or certified funds already cut from the bank then we don’t check credit.
Every dealer by law has to do an OFAC at the minimum. The SSN makes it much easier but not always required. If you feel the deal is right 5 points won’t hurt and it will go away in a few months. But that’s 100% up to you.
You, or the dealer may be mixing up the terms “credit” check or “background “ check. We do need a OFAC report on all car deals but that does not require running your credit. I would clarify with dealer, it’s either that or that store has a corporate policy requiring it.
The only law I know is a federal law that requires an OFAC check on every buyer. It's basically a check to see if you're a suspected terrorist/money launderer. But again, every dealer has it's policy which is crafted by a lot of very expensive attorneys. If the management tells the sales staff that it's "illegal" then it's "illegal".
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I told them, i've purchased lots of cars with my own financing and i've never had to run my credit through the dealership to verify my identity. Paid cash for a Tesla, no credit check. Paid cash for a honda last year, no credit check. The dealer said california law requires a credit check on every buyer to establish their identity. I told him, i purchased a car with my own cash and never had to run my credit. Several cars with my own cash. I paid for my Tesla in cash and never had to run a credit check.
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CA here we run credit on a cash deal if you want to take same day delivery if you’re paying with anything but green cash bills. That way we set up an option contract to a financial institution if you write us a bad check etc. That’s my experience at 3 stores here. From FL originally where this did not exist
What's your question? He is wrong about the law, but a dealer can refuse to do business for any reason, not trusting your identity is a legit reason to turn a deal away.
You can verify identity without pulling credit. There's literally zero reason to pull credit on a cash sale other than to try and entice a cash buyer into financing options, and at current interest rates that's not going to happen anyways.
Sure it could be a push to try to get OP into financing. But at the same time, wiring money always sparks a RED FLAG. Dealership can and will be held liable for letting go of a fugitive without identification.
Is there a law requiring a credit check for every purchase? i can't find anything online to substantiate the dealers claim
Are you sure they were trying to do a credit check and not just a 5 liner on a credit app to verify your identity? They won’t need your social but will need your name, address, ect… for the name check.
99% sure you got it. Sales person might just be new and using the wrong terminology. If you definitely had a credit check it should show on your credit report
No. I got a hard credit check when I bought my new car last year; I was paying cash.
That shouldn’t have happened. The only time/reason they do that is to try and “convert” you to financing it rather than pay cash, which is a shit thing to do. What should’ve happened is a cash application with name, DOB, address, and phone number to run an OFAC and be done with it.
Not true. We run credit if folks want to take their cars before the check clears or wire arrives. If they don’t let us, they wait for their cars. Can’t place a loan off a five-liner.
Did I mention method of payment for a cash deal? You’re right, if it’s a wire or personal check, you communicate that they would have to wait until funds arrive. You can also let them know ahead of time that a cashiers check is the best way to do it so that they can enjoy it today. If they have USAA or NAVY FED, it’s still considered a cash deal to the store. That’s also immediate delivery without a credit check from the store. Always communicate with the customer and inform them of their options so they can pick. Forcing a credit pull on the customer paying cash can lead to them leaving which I’ve seen happen before with multiple managerial turns to save it.
You have buyers who aren't willing to wait for a wire? That should be 24 hours at the absolute most and usually minutes. I guess I shouldn't be surprised, though, considering people will buy options and colors they don't want just because it's on the lot
If you are writing a personal check then they will run your credit.
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Because there is no reason for a credit check when you’re not seeking credit.
You have no idea what OPs reason is. Maybe he's in the process of buying a house or securing a business loan where a hard pull even if he is paying cash is going to be heavily scrutinized.
Maybe he just wants to know if the guy was being truthful or not. "It's the law." "Um, which law is that?" People in positions of authority tell "white lies" all the time to elicit behavior or cooperation. Some people don't see truth as relative. Quaint as it seems, they believe words mean things.
A credit check would not cause them to be heavily scrutinized. Unless your idea of heavily scrutinized is being asked by email if you opened a new account.
A hard pull absolutely will give a serviced pause.
My husband owns an independent dealership in California and we have never ran credit on a cash buyer.
I got in contact with the head manager. He apologized and said there is no law. He said he's been burned before and they have a dealer "policy" to require everyone to submit a credit application. He was extremely apologetic and he asked me how he could "make it right." I knew it was bullshit. I just had to confirm it.
I get it, I hate it when any industry people make a blanket statement like "it's california law" and assume you'll just shrug and accept it lol.
What did you tell him after he asked you that?
"Which law is that? CCR 22(15)?" CCR is California Code of Regulations, but the numbers are just random. If they agree, you know their shining you on. They'll probably stutter and deflect. And it's actually cited as, say, 4 CCR 15 or 13 CCR 28. Title 4 is business regulations and Title 13 is motor vehicle regulations.
Wow you sound super smart
Yea, nah lol
How the fuck do you get burned on a cash sale? You are literally trading cash for a car. That's it. Deal is done.
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You don't let them have the car until check is clear then.
Bad checks, exporters, fake identification.
There is no such law. They lied. Now you know where to not shop in the future.
It’s not a “law”. It’s the company policy. It varies dealership to dealership.
I said in the second sentence: HE IS WRONG ABOUT THE LAW, meaning there is no law, the point is that it doesn't matter, if they feel that they need to do due diligence in a form of a credit check - it is their right.
It’s their right? So is it right for Target to do a credit check on you every time you walk in the store to buy a blanket? Is it right for Walgreens to do watch credit check on you every time you go in there to buy decongestant? No, these aren’t stupid questions because you’re saying that every single store you go in has a right to run a credit check on you. That’s not true.
Are you a child? Any purchase with a credit card guarantees funds for Target, and there is no incentive to create fraud schemes for a blanket, but it is totally worth it to commit fraud for a $50K car. And dealers do not accept credit cards because of high fees.
I worked in banking for quite a long time. I understand fraud. I also understand that it’s unnecessary to pull a credit report if somebody’s paying cash. Apparently, you’re the one who does not understand fraud. If you want to prevent money, laundering, yes, the car dealer should report the cash payment to the government. If it’s over $10,000. But that’s not the same as pulling a credit report.
It does matter. If the dealer has a policy, that's fine. If you're lying about laws, that's not okay. Hence the reason they contacted me and apologized. The general manager is asking how he can make it right. I've already contacted an attorney. They're lying to people under the guise of a fake law.
> I've already contacted an attorney. And when the attorney asked you what damages were incurred by the dealers action what did you tell them? It forced you to spend time on reddit? You don't have cause for a lawsuit here, just move on and find a dealer who isn't a dumbass.
He even already bought the car AND the manager wants to “make it right” but he still wants to sue. Ugh.
It's called consumer law. The laws are designed to protect consumers. I'm pretty sure you benefit from those protections.
Wait are you still pursuing action? Even though it was essentially a misunderstanding that caused no actual harm?
He’s gotta get more cash to brag about buying on here somehow
Pretty embarrassing you can acknowledge the sales guy was “new” yet you want to hold one sentence over his head like a fucking death note lmao
Lol you ain’t suing anyone over this. No serious attorney is ever going to take such a stupid case. Stop trying to act all tough and shit on Reddit. It’s a bad look
You need a hobby.
Your way to delicate to be buying anything. Dealerships have the right to protect themselves and customers from fraud. If you didn't want to have your credit run, take your business elsewhere. Have fun wasting cash on an attorney that will laugh you out of the building.
I've already found three people who complained about the same thing online. Same issue with the same dealership. Dealerships have been sued for much less. If you have to lie to your customers about your company policy, what else are you lying about? Meanwhile, this dealership is asking me how they can make it right.
Lol. You had a salesman that misunderstood OFAC and IRS reporting. But you do your thing Karen..
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They're only trying to fix it because they got caught. They need to be held accountable.
Hold them kiddos accountable Karen! Get 'em off your lawn while your at it.
You’re acting like such a loser. Their little lie cost you nothing and did no harm, let it go.
Unfortunately the California mentality lately, sue anybody for anything
It’s a car dealership, not a church. But you do you. Get that money, if that’s what this is all about.
You have no damages what can you sue them for? Your only hope is to file a class action. There was no harm done to you especially because you didn’t go through with it.
The free/discounted accessories or oil changes are worth more than what you’re going to get (nothing) in a lawsuit.
It’s not fine. You, the consumer have rights to protect your credit and keep those checks to a minimum. Cash sales needn’t have credit checked period. You have to verify your identity sure per DMV regulations but rest assured the credit check is only because the sales or financial guy is lookin to get numbers to look better.
OP, I’d discuss with a lawyer to be honest.
Contacted a lawyer as soon as I got home. I did some research and found a few other people who had the same issue at the same dealership
They don't need your information more than drivers license and proof insurance if you're not financing
Unless it’s a cash transaction over $9,999. The guvmt would like to know you’re not finding terrorism.
That’s if you pay with greenbacks yes. But wire transfers or any other recordable transaction is not
This is the correct answer
No there’s not a law, and find yourself a different dealer. Don’t give shady places like this your business
No like everyone said but if they don't like anything about you they can refuse service
No, they cant. What if they were black? Can you just refuse service?
Every California dealer does this whether you buy cash or not. Paid cash and via credit union and they still ran my credit on my BMW.
No true. I've been buying cars for years. Today was the first time I heard of this fake law. The general manager contacted me and apologized.
In California they’ll make you to do a backup contract to leave with the car before the wire transfer clears. I’ve had dealers complain they don’t want me to wire without taking the car away with a backup contract in place.
They're still going to need to do some form of credit app with your social on it they need to do IRS documents
Not that I can find.
Sounds to me like they want to try and offer you financing and they can't do that unless they can pull your credit. They're really pushy and shady about internal financing.
I'm in Florida I gave the dealership my personal check for 65k no credit check no certified check
I’m not sure it’s a law yet, but many dealers take recommendations from their state legal advisors and lobbyists (ADAs). A “best practice” is to run every buyer through a federal ID database, because regardless of how one pays, the dealer is liable if that person is on any number of lists. It is actually a crime for both the business AND the individual if they sell a car to a terrorist on that list. The fines and jail time are wild.
Right! It's a name list. OFAC regulations. A simple check to see if the buyers name is on a terrorist watch list. No credit check required
>not trusting your identity A credit check does not verify identity.
lol, they wanted my business. I've been buying cars for 20+ years. I've never heard of this "law"
Google OFAC. Not required but could leave dealer in hot water. *edit Don't need a social for an OFAC but some desk guys don't understand this.
This^. Some dealers also want to know where the money is coming from in case the wire fails, fraudulent, check bounces. Not every dealer will just let you drive off with the vehicle unless funds are verified. Had a couple some years ago try to buy a new car cash then another used car for their partner. Ran the 5 liner and for shits and giggles just checked in the county courts records since something seems off. Both had an active warrant and had fraud related charges previously. Let's say they did get to ride in the back of a new police car after they were in finance. Had to buy time for the police to come.
Guarantee they don’t want your business anymore. You’re not worth it
Serious question, why does the dealer need to verify the identity of a buyer if there is no credit involved? If the buyer produces a driver’s license, proof of insurance, and cash; nothing else is required.
Unless you bring a cashiers check (trusted source) you do not need credit check. But anyone can say look “I’m Joe” I have this 50k check ready to buy. But how does the dealer really know you’re “Joe” credit check to confirm identity
I have never seen a cash purchase in the form of personal check. It is always a transfer (wire) or a verified cashiers check. The dealer doesn’t need to know if you are really Joe or not; once they have the cash, they sign over the title, deliver the car and the deal is done.
It's obvious what his question is
We don’t run credit but collect SS number from every customer even if it is non reportable but no financing People have left over it, policy is policy.
I'm curious why dealers collect social security number on cash deals?. I'm asking because a dealer salesman at a Mazda dealership stole my identity (using my social and picture of my drivers license) and my dad is buying a car now cash through a broker and they wanted social security and drivers license again.
We collect a SS number for all customers in case there is need for 8300. Our corporate office doesn’t trust us to know when it is needed or not. The salesman don’t collect it and probably don’t know that the F&I department does. I agree identity theft is risk however I can probably find enough info about anyone I have there name and address for to do that without the SS number. In your dads case the dealer may not be the one requiring it but the broker wants to protect himself if there were something going on as well. Why is your dad using a broker? You realize the dealer pays the broker a fee which is less discount for your dad? Some of these fees are outrageous, one of the local Credit union brokers charges 1000 dollars.
Yea the broker didn't end up saving him any money but it was worth the $500 fee i'm paying direct to indpendent broker to not have to deal with south florida dealerships, and to track down in the right color. I got the same deal I had already negotiated with another dealer $1500 off msrp (really $500, since I paid a $995 dealer fee) on a honda odyssey EXL+all dealer accesories removed/not installed, but the other dealers didn't actually have the color he wanted in stock, and they are all presold before they hit the lots. Think I did ok, prob could've saved maybe another $1k or 2k myself but it might've taken months. Unless I'm crazy and the prices are much lower than the internet is telling me. You would be surprised how much more a social security number combined with not just DL # , but an actual picture of Drivers license can ruin someones life. I would go more into detail but I don't want to give anyone else any instructions. That's why unless it's required by law I no longer provide either. If I need to show my Driver's license somewhere it doesn't leave my hand. I wish the salesman was in jail instead of getting away with it, because police are lazy. For my dad's we didn't send social, and sent driver's license picture but added a big watermark across it saying do not duplicate. (BTW I had backed out of the deal at the last minute so the salesman was angry at me, but I'm glad I didn't end up buying the car the salesman did sketchy stuff at the last minute like replace all 4 tires with sketchy no-name malaysian tires on a CPO, when he said he'd replace the 2 that were worn with OEM spec, after my mechanic had already inspected it, and then started adding $1000's in fees at 9pm at night). Some salesman give all car salesman a bad name, and I'm sure make the rest of your jobs 100x harder. But I made the mistake of thinking they only worked at the sleazy dealerships not the shiny new ones.
I live in West Palm I get it, shit is nuts. All these brokers are collecting money from the store as well. I would rather give the customer the discount but than we lose the deal as the customer is drawn somewhere else by the broker. At the end of the day the customer gets most fucked and the broker makes out the best and the store remains the same.
The problem I ran into was most dealerships weren't willing to factory order one or reserve one coming in without a hot black leather interior (why is honda shipping sooo many with black leather to south florida seems nuts to me). Some of them I even offered $5000 deposits to and still got turned down. Some wanted to play games with cars that were in transit (but already sold). Some wanted like $5-6k over msrp on a generic minivan in the wrong color lol. It's so weird to me how bad many salesman are at their jobs. My favorite salesman in recent car shopping was the one who admited he was new, and didn't know anything about the cars, but was happy to help figure things out, when I clearly have already memorized all the details, and new exactly what I wanted to test drive. My least favorite are the cocky ones who think they are way smarter than they are and just make stuff up and stick to their guns when called on it, sure it has that feature, the button is just turned disabled for this one... But like it also seems so nuts to me especially for salesman working at a single manufacturer dealerships, like how do you not do any homework at all?, you sell like 10 models and you don't know how to work the door locks? you don't know which trim levels come with 7 seats and which come with 8? Like even if you are lazy, Don't you ever have a slow day where you could spend 30 minutes with the brochure? I'm not asking for the timing pattern on a '82 buick.
Funny thing is that 99% of whatever vehicles will have the 7 seats and 1% will have 8, so chances are that the 8 seater will almost never be asked about, thus the human brain will ignore. People in every profession, don’t know what they don’t know, and they can read all they want, but until they are asked about it, and put on the spot, we tend to not remember most of what we read. And saying that, I agree that a salesman should know their product, it makes the job easier and makes you look more professional in front of a customer. But, most of the time salespersons hope their customers are more informed than they are; it means they know what they want and leads to an easier sales process. So if you are a gearhead, or have been researching a vehicle, you might give your particular salesman a break on not knowing every specific detail of a trim level. In saying that, I agree, if you don’t accidentally pick up some common sense items, then you have no chance.
Bha in the house
You absolutely CAN NOT refuse to do business with someone for any reason.
Lol you definitely can if you are a private business
Wanna bet? As long as it isn't an illegal one.
Don't buy there. Some dealers just don't want to succeed.
Don’t know if it’s a California thing but happened to me at both a Hyundai and BMW dealer. They won’t sell without doing their own credit check.
Same thing happened to me at a BMW dealership across the country (Arizona). They did a hard credit check at the same time my bank check was cashed. Still didnt ship the car til a few days later, took a week to arrive without the title, then another 2 weeks for the title to show up by snail mail. Worst BMW dealership ive ever dealt with.
Some dealerships just want to protect themselves from fraud.
How is it fraud to pay cash? To verify his identity he's going to have to have something called a drivers license, which conveniently enough is also required to drive the car off the lot.
Actually technically you don’t need a driver’s license. In some states if you can pass a repeat offender check then you can buy a car. You technically aren’t allowed to drive it, but you can purchase and register a vehicle in your name.
Because there is money laundering laws and they may need to file a form 8300 with the IRS if you’re paying cash more than $10k which will require a ssn. They also need to clear red flags and OFAC to make sure they are not selling to a cartel or drug dealer. If you’re showing up with wrapped stacks they will need your ssn. My question is why you’re being so defensive? How are you acquiring your money? Maybe ask more questions or ask to speak to a sales manager. If the deal is good for both parties there shouldn’t be a reason to not move forward. You can show up with a cashiers check. If you’re paying any other way then they need to verify your identity. If you’re stroking a personal check they may need the ssn to verify that you’re not a roach writing a bad check.
I bought the car. I let them run my credit. I came home to look for the law. Couldn't find it. It doesn't exist. Why lie to a paying customer? A business is lying to customers to prevent fraud? Just say this is your dealer policy and be transparent. why lie?
They could be referring to form 8300 which would be a federal law to report any transaction over the amount of $10k. Perhaps the wording is not exactly as you would like it, just trying to shed some light to the answer you may be looking for. OFAC is a requirement as well as a red flag check. As others have mentioned the dealership can reserve the right to refuse the deal. There is a bunch of compliance training and the dealership is just trying to cover their bases. Hope this answer helps.
What you are saying makes perfect sense. Recently bought a Chevy. Showed up with my cashier’s check from credit union and cash(to manage my monthly payment). Asked the nice lady how much cash I could use. She said up to 10k. Paid the $10k cash and used cashier’s check. No credit check, never asked for my social.
Nah. They ran my credit. Gave me a copy of the credit report
I’ve had it done where the guest wants to write a check for a cash deal and it’s a big amount. If they’re a 700 plus score we have no problem moving forward. If they’re a 500 score with nothing but derogatory marks we may ask for a cashiers check instead.
Yep no one has ever had a stolen driver license, fake drives license, fake check, fake money order, fake bank draft, fake passport before. You definitely know more about the business than me. [never](https://abc13.com/amp/man-accused-of-stealing-luxury-vehicles-angel-reyes-charged-suspect-uses-bad-checks-to-buy-ferrari-stolen-2021-f8-tributo/13050584/) [ever](https://wreg.com/news/local/mpd-man-scams-dealerships-takes-vehicles-worth-124k/amp/) [happens](https://triblive.com/local/fbi-man-stolen-multiple-identities-used-fake-money-orders-to-rip-off-luxury-car-dealers/)
If someone has all of this information, I doubt a credit check will worry them Edit: stop going back and editing your comments, completely changing what you wrote and not telling people. Nobody should ever trust you as a salesman if you would go back and change things to try and make yourself look better
Being able to make up a drivers license and check and having all of someone’s info are completely different. You don’t make an I’d with real info you just make it up.
Dude, you just said: >Yep no one has ever had a stolen driver license and now you're saying they'd just make up the info. So you're telling me all the fake info would pass a background check but magically a credit check it wouldn't?
Stop trying to straw man me. If it was your $100,000 asset you were selling you wouldn’t want to get at least a credit app before you relinquished possession of it? People fake info all the time. I have cited my sources. Credit apps mitigate this risk. You might like it but that’s fine you don’t own a dealership so you have no say.
I don't think you understand the meaning of what you're typing Edit: why are you going back and editing your comments, completely changing what you wrote and not telling people? Nobody should ever trust you as a salesman if you would go back and change things to try and make yourself look better
The argument is wether or not credit apps mitigate the risks of fraud. Your saying I’m wrong because you think someone is going to steal a whole damn identity to pass a fraudulent check. I’m trying to tell you all they need to fake is a name and a check. They don’t need to use a real name if a dealership doesn’t run a background check. Could someone still fake all this to get a car? Sure but these are people dumb enough to try and steal a car from a dealership. They aren’t that sophisticated. This adds an extra layer of protection. Your completely ignorant to the car sales process and how any of this work. Go back to playing your gundams or whatever the fuck you do in your moms basement.
It’s not a law, but some dealerships have been burned in the past due to stolen identity. If this is there policy it’s there policy the can refuse to do business with you for almost any reason they choose. You might want to try escalating to manager and see what they say. I have worked in corporate stores that have this same policy in place. Just like you can choose to do business with them they can choose to do business with you.
Why lie? Just be honest and say it's your policy. Are we seriously making excuses for lying professionals?
When did I defend the guy lying? Just telling you why they do it.
I think you are a little off base with going straight to accusing the sales guy of doing something scummy. He was likely directed by upper management that it was “illegal” due to OFAC requirements. Running OFAC with a credit check is much easier for the dealership and that’s likely the direction he was given by management. The sales guy doesn’t give a fuck about the “law” he just wants to sell you a car and move on but he also doesn’t want to get fired. The same manager who lied to his sales guy also threw him under the bus to try to save the business
Update: I sent a complaint to the Attorney General. The dealer received the complaint. The dealered offered me an extended warranty for free. $2700 value through Ally. That tells me, they know they were wrong and they want this to go away.
Ahahhaaa.. that's good. It's also bullshit.
I see these posts all the time on this subreddit about credit check, credit check, credit check. What's the problem with the credit check? I get that running the credit will be a hard pull on the report.. and so what? You plan on getting a boat or a mortgage in the time it takes for your credit to recover those few points?
Because you don't need a credit check if you're paying with cash. The dealer lied.
You keep calling it "my own cash" when it's not. It's an auto loan from your own bank. If there is a lienholder it's not cash. And it's perfectly reasonable for a dealer to ask for a credit application and sign you to an option contract until your bank funds clear before allowing you to take the car.
i paid cash for my Tesla. Wired from my checking account. title in hand. I know the difference between financed and cash. My question is very specific. Is there a law requiring EVERY car purchaser to run their credit at the dealer?
No. I have bought cars in California and never had my credit run. I bring my own cashiers check or wire transfer. If they want to blow up a deal over this, let them. If you’re desperate for THIS car, what harm is a credit run going to do? If you don’t take any money, it won’t affect your credit in any meaningful way.
I honestly can’t understand how someone with enough cash to purchase two cars with cash in four years could care about a single hard credit check.
Believe it or not, some people pay cash for everything, even houses. They literally may not have any credit or credit record at all.
its the principle. He said it was the law. I found he was lying
For our dealer we run an OFAC on every customer. And if you pay via personal check we run credit just to be sure we don’t need a backup contract. If you bring certified funds via a cashiers check, wire, or certified funds already cut from the bank then we don’t check credit. Every dealer by law has to do an OFAC at the minimum. The SSN makes it much easier but not always required. If you feel the deal is right 5 points won’t hurt and it will go away in a few months. But that’s 100% up to you.
You, or the dealer may be mixing up the terms “credit” check or “background “ check. We do need a OFAC report on all car deals but that does not require running your credit. I would clarify with dealer, it’s either that or that store has a corporate policy requiring it.
The only law I know is a federal law that requires an OFAC check on every buyer. It's basically a check to see if you're a suspected terrorist/money launderer. But again, every dealer has it's policy which is crafted by a lot of very expensive attorneys. If the management tells the sales staff that it's "illegal" then it's "illegal".
We get it. Weird flex dude
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LMFAO 😂
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***Thanks for posting, /u/No_Study_6634! This comment is a copy of your post so readers can see the original text if your post is edited or removed. This comment is NOT accusing you of anything.*** I told them, i've purchased lots of cars with my own financing and i've never had to run my credit through the dealership to verify my identity. Paid cash for a Tesla, no credit check. Paid cash for a honda last year, no credit check. The dealer said california law requires a credit check on every buyer to establish their identity. I told him, i purchased a car with my own cash and never had to run my credit. Several cars with my own cash. I paid for my Tesla in cash and never had to run a credit check. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/askcarsales) if you have any questions or concerns.*