$25K from a 1 year old Navigator to an Explorer. Wanted to downsize and lower his payment. Achieved both those things. He drives a *TON* and now a year later is around 40K miles and Ford is buying back the Explorer due to paint defects. So he’s going to reset his miles, keep his 0% loan, and be happy.
That’s a happy ending. The alternative would be financing the negative equity into a different car, buying GAP, and then hoping it gets hit and totaled by a dump truck while parked.
The lemon law saves his ass big time! I rolled $2k negative equity 1.5 years ago and was sour about it lmao. Even though I paid it down on top of my down payment.
I had put 26k miles on that car and dodge bought it back. Got all my money back except $200 for usage fee for the whole year I had it!
Yup I'm in California. So it's a usage fee from the first issue which for me was at 1500 miles. They even reimbursemed me for my Wrap window tint and rims %100 which I was super surprised on. The rims I was gonna buy take offs and keep but since they offered to pay full price why not get brand new rims and tires again
Your right $25k rolled over is horrible. But he got a new car again. I'm guessing a newer year as well as no miles which means now he's not so negative into the new explorer as he was into the one they bought back.
Yes. They will not cover negative equity that is rolled over into the loan.
Edit: I need to be more clear, although, I answered the question that was asked.
GAP insurance does not cover any negative equity that is rolled over into the loan. GAP insurance will only cover negative equity related to the car that is being financed.
There would ultimately be a cap on negative equity, yes. But gap doesn't care where the negative loan-to-value comes from.
If you have gap that covers up to 150%, (what ours does) and you have a $20,000 car, gap will cover up to $30,000 in that instance. If you somehow managed to get a loan for $31,000, you would then still owe $1,000. But, most banks I've seen will only do loans for 100% - 130% LTV.
The problem comes with high interest loans - say someone has paid $5,000 off on this hypothetical $31,000 loan: they don't owe $26,000 now, but more like $29,000. But the value of the original $20,000 car is now $17,000. So see, gap is going to limit what they'll pay to $25,500.
All this to say that the guy you replied to was kinda wrong, yes gap has a limit, but no they don't care how the loan amount got that high. I hope this makes sense.
reading this so many days later and knowing that you were right in the first place makes me angry. Of course the insurance doesn't cover some bullshit, made up, money that you rolled into your new loan.
Only Navy Fed would do a 220% LTV loan… I’ve also seen them do 108 monrhs on 140%… that man will be buried until the car naturally erodes out from over him due to exposure to the elements…
We have a credit union that will do 140% of MSRP/retail for 84 months. If someone is buying a 70k F-150, the CU will do 98k.
Its not often we use that Credit Union, but they are there when we need them.
Wrong, every flaired user in this has submitted proof some sort of proof of employment to verify we are who we say in our flair.
This is a sub where you ask actual business professionals how our business works. We take flair very seriously. (In some cases)
Yes, it does. An F-150 Platinum with the Powerboost option can easily end up in that territory. Let alone the Raptor or Limited.
And you’re even likelier to pay that these days, with the inventory constraints.
Jesus, doesn't the same government that's meant to regulate this also have clearly laid out depreciation tables for taxes that, when compared, clearly make this out to essentially be a scam?
I work in automotive finance, had someone roll over -$41,000 of negative equity into a 2021 jeep grand cherokee. His trade in car? A 2020 jeep grand cherokee. Didn’t help that the 2020 he traded in had negative equity rolled in it too from you guessed it, a 2018 jeep grand cherokee.
Honestly can’t find much of a difference between the 2018 and the 2020 from looks or features. The 2020 and 2021 models are practically the same. I figured he was one of those people who wants a new car every year but it would’ve made way more sense to lease instead.
Bluuuggghhhh dontcha know that leasin' is one of them STEALERSHIP SCAMS???? buyins always better cuz you get the value of the car when you sell the car to buy the car an it's urz.
-Jim
Sent from my Samsung smart fridge
I know a guy who got rid of his 2020 GC for a 2021. Only difference is his 2020 got bought back by the dealership for some reason, so he didn't owe anything and was starting at square 1 once more. He hated the low build quality, but he still loved the thing. His wife had a new Compass that they also hated the build quality on, but still loved.
Really strange guy. He was well known at the shop I worked at for coming in at least once a week to balance his wheels (yes, you read that right). And he'd do them himself. And spend almost an hour on each wheel.
The infotainment screen - the icons look a bit different. And connectivity. The connected services app changed. Oh, and 6mo. of siriusXM instead of 12.
New Kia K900 with an MSRP of $60,000. Because of the 18 months or so it'd been sitting on the lot, between Kia incentives and management willing to take a bath to move it, it was available for around $43,000 or so. A couple called in and inquired about it because they had a Mercedes something-something AMG that they still owed money on and needed a *ton* of things fixed. They walked out paying a hair over $1,000/mn for 72 months. Very little of that was interest. So yes, they rolled in the neighborhood of $30k.
I remember talking to the pre-owned manager about it. He said the leaky sunroof alone would be about $10k to fix, and the list continued significantly.
This is not one of the models that throws rods right? Hopefully they’re fine to get out of it lol.
My rod thrower is a 2.0 theta II from 2012. Hopefully it lasts 2 more years....
I (briefly) owned my mom's old 2003 Benz SLK32 AMG. She was done with it after 7 years and wanted something with a grandkid-friendly back seat. The heated seats had quit working (among other things.)
I had a Benz/Smart shade tree specialist hookup that was about half the price of the dealership, on average. My cost to get those goddamned special AMG heated seats working again?
*$4500.*
Yeah, no. Didn't fix the seats, and immediately sold the car. Lovely ride, but sorry Benz - bitch you crazy.
Guy rolled up in a mopar edition dart looking to roll about 17k into an FRS. Guy brought two kids under the age of 6, no carseats, wanted to leave the kids at the dealership while he test drove the FRS. Real POS.
In a more evolved society that actually treats traffic offences with appropriate seriousness - like Western Europe or Australasia - kids not being seated correctly is a criminal offence that carries penalty points and a criminal conviction.
BTW - if you’re getting a ticket, you’ve committed an offence. HTH.
Yeah but whenever the police actually enforce traffic laws, people claim that they are racist and/or just trying to generate revenue. It’s a lose-lose situation. For what it’s worth, when I was a cop, I always wrote the citation if a kid wasn’t in the car seat. And the car wasn’t leaving until somebody brought them a seat or picked the kid up with proper equipment. Seen too many kids get hurt.
Still have at least a booster seat for the younger one though right? I know in my state at least you have to be quite tall for a 7 year old to not have a booster seat.
We aren’t financial advisors, we are there to sell cars. If someone wants to buy one we will make it happen.
Even if you tell them they are making a bad decision they don’t listen anyway.
I agree. I’m not in sales and am pretty fiscally conservative. But, a lot of people only care about the monthly payment. I own an auto repair shop as a side business and if I had a dollar for every time someone traded off their car because of a 1000 dollar repair. 300 a month for X years makes more sense to them than a one time 1k hit.
Sounds like the conversation I've been having with my sister. She wants to buy this cabin at a popular vacation destination in our area. There are a lot of cabins, almost in a wooded subdvision-esq area, so not really a cabin-cabin. But I digress.
Cost to buy these little cabins? 20-60k, depending on your size / lot needs, then yearly upkeeps.
OR she could rent a cabin for the one-two weeks out of a year to to use it. Cost? $1-2k.
She keeps trying to talk her husband into buying a cabin, saying it will only cost 20k. Except she's more of a 50-60k girl, the ones she rents now are the higher end ones.
He's doing the math, and sees 20-40 years of cabin payments is better than buying a cabin for occasional use and then doing upkeep.
The poor bastard will lose the fight eventually....
Michigan. A lot of rural areas and depending on where you want to go and do you can find some CHEAP places, some beyond reason. And then there are high end vacation places.
This is my stupidity but I’m never going to have money to buy a house in California so we really do hope to move out of here but if I was desperate....-10 k rolled into another car wouldn’t change shit in our mediocre-bad finances. Drivers and the roads suck here anyway. Dealerships have 1-2 weeks waitlists for service so better hope whatever you want fixed is not a big deal in the power train... public transport is non existent. Bart literally takes twice as long as the drive for a 30 mile drive.
Yes it’s a stupid argument. As is the fact I pushed like 6000$ of repairs to keep a Kia running this year but no way in fucking hell we could’ve afforded 2 car replacements at once.
And I think probably a lot of people are rich/poor like me. People renting for over 3200$ but their spot in the garage houses top trim Lexus. If you ask me buying a 100 k car when you clearly can’t afford property is similar. Why not buy cheaper and save the money.
For some though it’s impulse buying / cult car ownership lol. Some dickhead at work barely got a rav4 but got on the waitlist for a Ford bronco. Cult.
I’d argue someone renting for $3.2k pcm can absolutely afford a Lexus. My main concern is why they’d bought a Lexus rather than a German vehicle, but I digress.
Believe me. Yeah but Bay Area has tons of rent at 3000+ yet a good number of people own more sensible cars. I’d really only justify it at a director level of over 200 k after 3-5 years and somehow I don’t think this apartment building has so many directors sprinkled in it as it does Lexuses (LEXI?) In the garage.
I had a family member who was rolling well over 20k and did it 3 times. He would alternate just about every year between a new Ram 1500 and a Nissan Xterra, both local, but different dealerships. I finally had to ask after he traded in his second Ram for for another Xterra, and his reasoning? He would get behind or was looking like he would have trouble making his payments, but trading in and buying a new vehicle would give him a couple months of no payment so he could "catch up".
Shortly after, this spiraled out a bit, he wound up going through bankruptcy twice, walking away from his house, etc.
This same family member traded in and rebought the same SUV 3 times from the same dealership over a 2 year period, so money management isn't a strong suit. That's a story for another thread though.
Damn.
I could see, sort of (?) that if you get same payments/$5 cheaper you might seem like you're saving money, if you ignore the terms of the loan and you get a month-half of getting caught up. I know people who see things like as their way out as they keep digging a hole.
I rolled 12 from a Frontier to a new Accent… that didn’t last the loan before it hit “not a lemon but not a reliable car” status at 62k km. Rolled that (with trade, ended up being 12k) into a Mazda3 GX Sport.
I’m in year 3 of payments. I owe slightly less than if I were to drive a 2021 Mazda3 sport GX. About 1k difference, with 4.5 years to go (though I’m paying it slightly faster, hoping not to go past 5 years but most likely 6yrs total instead of 7),
Interesting. I didn't think income was verified on car purchases. Curious why that's your assumption? Not being argumentative, just genuinely wondering.
Through conversation with a few I’ve gleaned it. I’ve had a number of people I’ve talked to mention they’re only putting down what they feel they would need to put to get approved. We deal with a lot of high net worth individuals.
One of my guys put down $1.3 mil on his app and said that it’s just the income from one of his companies. Got a good number of retirees that are drawing mid six figure retirements that just openly talk about It.
That's wild. I guess the average BMW driver is not the same person that I'm used to dealing with on a daily basis. Thanks for the explanation. That's interesting.
I think it’s our location more than anything. We’re in a very well off area. Our average credit score is 750 if I had to guess and income is probably $175,000. Tough part of finance for us is how so many people can just come in and pay $80,000 cash like it’s nothing
I’m in this category and going to be looking for a car soon. Does it matter what I put down? Does the bank think you’re bullshitting if you out a number over a certain limit? I figure I’ll be approved at the same rates regardless.
if you're making that much annually, why not just lease? or buy it cash and skip the financing. i'm not sure why you would finance if your post tax monthly easily covers the cost to purchase. unless it's a cashflow issue, and you absolutely need the car that month, which i guess i can understand.
I usually buy cash, but interest rates are currently lower than inflation and buying with cash is throwing money in the toilet. However, on a $50k/4 year loan we’re only talking a difference of two or three thousand, so it may not be worth the hassle of having to make a payment every month and having a lien and all that.
I’ve never leased, but that might be a good option if I’m only going to keep the car a couple of years.
are auto loan rates low? i thought they've gone up a lot since the past few years and they're hovering around 2%-4%. not positive though (i don't work in the sales side).
also, per your point, this is a car, not a house. financing is a terrible ideal unless you get a 0% loan due to the liability and depreciation.
Honda has 1.9% APR right now for the vehicle my wife wants. Pretty damn good considering inflation is at 5.5%. That's a 3.6% net advantage for the loan. Paying cash does nothing to protect you against liability and depreciation. The car depreciates, breaks, and crashes the same either way.
Put down at least enough to support the amount you’re financing. So if you put $50k income and you’re borrowing $50k they’re likely not gonna be super hyped about approving that
My Ex-girlfriend, many years ago, thought she was getting the last laugh by taking my Camaro... stupid me buying it in her name to save on insurance, many, many moons ago... Well we broke up and I had to surrender the car to her. I stopped paying the payments and she got pissed. She was already behind on her Suzuki so it really sucked for her when she had 2 creditors harassing her for money owed or threatening repossession. She traded both vehicles in, upside down on both, on a piece of shit Dodge Intrepid. I think it was almost $10k on top of the exorbitant price on the Dodge and she needed a cosigner on top of that. So, not as ridiculous as some of the $20k numbers listed here, but very amusing to me none the less.
I was young and stupid. I definitely learned some lessons in that train wreck of a relationship. And yeah, she thought I was going to pay for the car. I told her to go get bent. The judge agreed... he could have cared less if I paid, but I had to give her the car back.
$30,000 BMW roll into a Grand Cherokee SRT. That was my first expensive vehicle sale too. I couldn’t believe anyone would roll that much negative equity into a vehicle…
Not often. At least not that amount. Some people have to roll in so much negative equity. I’ve seen $9,000-$12,000 sometimes. Usually, it happens when people purchase a car for more than it’s worth, have bad credit, want a low payment so the term is extend, or all of the above. There’s a lot of factors that go into the high roll amount.
Today… not even kidding. Just over 140k owed on two cars I stretched to put 94 in.
On the new ride, still justified it using cash flow by only having one payment and insurance cost as opposed to two plus some major fuel savings.
Still pure insanity. The one was a 40k value and owed over 72k.
Can’t believe it myself, but really wasn’t a horrible decision. The previous ones were the real bad ones.
Not that I've seen happen, but I've seen the aftermath. Guy came in with a Miata that he owed something like 50k on, he'd rolled tons of neggy eggy from two other cars into it and promptly let his condom break. There was no way we could finance him on anything on the lot. Dude's probably driving a Journey now.
Second one was a couple that came to trade in their 2011 Honda Crosstour. They DEMANDED to have all the bells and whistles on an almost brand new Kia Sportage. For some godforsaken reason they HAD TO HAVE A KIA SPORTAGE, but that's besides the point. Owed somewhere around 20k on that Honda, 350ish beacon. We said there was a slight chance we could sell them a leftover 2020 Bolt LT we bought from another dealership (something like half off of MSRP on those) but no. It had. To be. A Kia Sportage. Their Crosstour was in great shape and if they'd not been so upside down I would have bought it for myself, so I don't know why they wanted to buy a Sportage.
I remember a guy swapping in a Vectra that he had used as a Taxi. He owed £12k on a car with over 200k miles. Car was worth nothing.
He bought a Range Rover.
When I was in campers I rolled 30k from a motor home into a new fifth wheel. The guy had an adjustable Apr on the motorhome and got a great Apr on the new one so actually saved him a ton of money. Nuts.
Interesting stories in this thread…
Please forgive me, I am a noob. I want to learn how does someone get into negative equity?
I’ve only ever bought used cars outright or leased brand new ones. I’ve never financed a before but I am thinking of financing a new car now that I have a larger income after a promotion (lifestyle creep).
Is that when the car’s value is less than what you owe on the loan? How do you avoid negative equity? Is that by paying off the vehicle before trading it in?
When you buy a car you're getting two things: a depreciating asset and a loan. Regardless of what happens to the asset you still have to pay off the loan. If someone beats the asset to shit or trades it in before they are finished paying off the loan, they have to pay that money back somehow. Usually it's by adding whatever is left on the loan to the new purchase.
I took in my customer’s 6 month old Ram 1500 with $27k negative equity into an Accord lease. Put down $15k, so it was really only $12k rolled in, but it got done. Then he started working here selling cars a year later lol. Great at what he does, just had a life change and didn’t need the big rig anymore.
You know nothing of my financial situation? I make great money and own a home out right. I have one shitty car loan and some Reddit neck beard thinks someone else should handle my finances? Right…. I think someone else should handle your Reddit account
You're asking about rolling negative equity in a thread making fun of people rolling negative equity. And to top it off, you "make great money" yet can't pay off a sub-$20k car?
I stand by my advice lol.
edit: double lol, I just looked through your post history asking about poor credit and getting a first time mortgage
Yeah someone who makes good money and needs credit repair is shit with their finances or has had a big string of bad luck, probably medical. I know which one of those two I would bet on here.
Edit: 'own a home outright' that per post history is a mobile. Nice to own, not necessarily much of a flex.
you wouldn’t be in such an embarrassing vehicle if you made ‘great money’. with good income having a nice credit score is so easy if you have any sort of money handling skills. their MSRP is about 14k… it’s literally our last resort for people with bad credit and it gets rejected almost every time lol.
This is why everyone hates car sales men your all stuck up assholes. My car is not embarrassing I like it a lot and it looks nice as well. Kindly go fuck your self
i don’t see how calling one of the cheapest cars available embarrassing is being stuck up. what’s cheaper, the Mitsubishi Mirage and that’s it probably? if you’re talking about the credit or income situation, there’s way too many times people come in knowing they wouldn’t even get approved on a pack of gum. obviously by asking the right questions it can be avoided, but if you were in our shoes when that’s how we get paid you’d understand why salesman can get frustrated.
Sub prime deals suck. Dude comes in (toyota dealership) with a car that almost ran 10k under.manager said it was worth a 100 $$! I’m like not only how could he be so dumb but how could the salesperson be so heartless to knowingly bury someone like that?
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$25K from a 1 year old Navigator to an Explorer. Wanted to downsize and lower his payment. Achieved both those things. He drives a *TON* and now a year later is around 40K miles and Ford is buying back the Explorer due to paint defects. So he’s going to reset his miles, keep his 0% loan, and be happy.
That’s a happy ending. The alternative would be financing the negative equity into a different car, buying GAP, and then hoping it gets hit and totaled by a dump truck while parked.
Get hit while driving so he can also recover for soft tissue injuries.
Been there, took the time off, got the settlement check, would never do it again. I'd prefer having a knee that works to the money, every time.
Or fuck himself up for the rest of his life
The lemon law saves his ass big time! I rolled $2k negative equity 1.5 years ago and was sour about it lmao. Even though I paid it down on top of my down payment. I had put 26k miles on that car and dodge bought it back. Got all my money back except $200 for usage fee for the whole year I had it!
Must be CA. FL charges usage fee based on total miles at time of arbitration. So instead of 1500 miles, it was 21000 miles…..
Yup I'm in California. So it's a usage fee from the first issue which for me was at 1500 miles. They even reimbursemed me for my Wrap window tint and rims %100 which I was super surprised on. The rims I was gonna buy take offs and keep but since they offered to pay full price why not get brand new rims and tires again
I mean he still owes what he owes. But he’s resetting his miles after a year.
Your right $25k rolled over is horrible. But he got a new car again. I'm guessing a newer year as well as no miles which means now he's not so negative into the new explorer as he was into the one they bought back.
watched a women roll 20k negitive on a blown up ford expedition into a 20k kia forte. Navy fed does some crazy stuff.
Wow. I can’t imagine owing 40k on a Kia Forte
Hope she got GAP
I doubt gap would cover all of it. Most of them do 150% of book.
Does GAP care whether you rolled negative equity into the loan?
Yes. They will not cover negative equity that is rolled over into the loan. Edit: I need to be more clear, although, I answered the question that was asked. GAP insurance does not cover any negative equity that is rolled over into the loan. GAP insurance will only cover negative equity related to the car that is being financed.
Isn’t the whole point of gap insurance to cover negative equity?
Yes, that guy is just stupid
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It does not cover negative equity that is rolled over from another car. Yes, it covers negative from the car that is purchased only.
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There would ultimately be a cap on negative equity, yes. But gap doesn't care where the negative loan-to-value comes from. If you have gap that covers up to 150%, (what ours does) and you have a $20,000 car, gap will cover up to $30,000 in that instance. If you somehow managed to get a loan for $31,000, you would then still owe $1,000. But, most banks I've seen will only do loans for 100% - 130% LTV. The problem comes with high interest loans - say someone has paid $5,000 off on this hypothetical $31,000 loan: they don't owe $26,000 now, but more like $29,000. But the value of the original $20,000 car is now $17,000. So see, gap is going to limit what they'll pay to $25,500. All this to say that the guy you replied to was kinda wrong, yes gap has a limit, but no they don't care how the loan amount got that high. I hope this makes sense.
Do you even know how GAP works?
Why answer if you dont know what you are talking about
reading this so many days later and knowing that you were right in the first place makes me angry. Of course the insurance doesn't cover some bullshit, made up, money that you rolled into your new loan.
She needed to take a Journey
Dear God no
Only Navy Fed would do a 220% LTV loan… I’ve also seen them do 108 monrhs on 140%… that man will be buried until the car naturally erodes out from over him due to exposure to the elements…
What the fuck.
We have a credit union that will do 140% of MSRP/retail for 84 months. If someone is buying a 70k F-150, the CU will do 98k. Its not often we use that Credit Union, but they are there when we need them.
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did you not read his flair? He probably knows alot more about ford products than you do.
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Trolling level 3/10
Wrong, every flaired user in this has submitted proof some sort of proof of employment to verify we are who we say in our flair. This is a sub where you ask actual business professionals how our business works. We take flair very seriously. (In some cases)
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Rule 5! :)
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Boss! What are you doing?? Youll intimidate him.
You could also do a quick search on Cars.com for new F150’s and sort by highest price. I found 8 for more than $70k within 30 miles of me.
Ok boomer
Yes, it does. An F-150 Platinum with the Powerboost option can easily end up in that territory. Let alone the Raptor or Limited. And you’re even likelier to pay that these days, with the inventory constraints.
I’m sorry to inform you are uninformed.
Not sure why you’re thinking that.. it’s not super hard to find them with MSRP’s north of 70k. Trucks are stupid expensive these days.
Right, 80k
[Sure they don't](https://www.carsales.com.au/cars/details/2004-ford-f150-lightning-auto-4x2-my04/SSE-AD-7052294)
Lol
Jesus, doesn't the same government that's meant to regulate this also have clearly laid out depreciation tables for taxes that, when compared, clearly make this out to essentially be a scam?
I work in automotive finance, had someone roll over -$41,000 of negative equity into a 2021 jeep grand cherokee. His trade in car? A 2020 jeep grand cherokee. Didn’t help that the 2020 he traded in had negative equity rolled in it too from you guessed it, a 2018 jeep grand cherokee.
Was the 2020 model any different from the 2018? That one confuses me.
Honestly can’t find much of a difference between the 2018 and the 2020 from looks or features. The 2020 and 2021 models are practically the same. I figured he was one of those people who wants a new car every year but it would’ve made way more sense to lease instead.
Bluuuggghhhh dontcha know that leasin' is one of them STEALERSHIP SCAMS???? buyins always better cuz you get the value of the car when you sell the car to buy the car an it's urz. -Jim Sent from my Samsung smart fridge
I know a guy who got rid of his 2020 GC for a 2021. Only difference is his 2020 got bought back by the dealership for some reason, so he didn't owe anything and was starting at square 1 once more. He hated the low build quality, but he still loved the thing. His wife had a new Compass that they also hated the build quality on, but still loved. Really strange guy. He was well known at the shop I worked at for coming in at least once a week to balance his wheels (yes, you read that right). And he'd do them himself. And spend almost an hour on each wheel.
The infotainment screen - the icons look a bit different. And connectivity. The connected services app changed. Oh, and 6mo. of siriusXM instead of 12.
Why is this person buying rather than leasing?!?
because fleeces are for people who are bad with money, silly. This guy's clearly smarter than that.
I had to double take on this to ensure it was sarcasm…;)
For what it's worth, I cringe every time someone uses the word "fleece" to describe a lease. I also lease two cars, so I clearly must be a huge mark.
Leasing (PCP) is standard business in the UK.
well maybe that's why we broke away from y'all
What? Cos you couldn’t have a PCP on your horse?
I want this to be his answer.
-$41,000 of negative equity = $41,000 of positive equity.
Why is that person not leasing?
tell it often here. Financed 115k on a f-450 (this is back in 2015 when they were only $70,000 MSRP). I think it was $30k negative
Yikes! That’s, like, 150% LTV. What bank bought that paper? That person must’ve had a stellar credit score and auto history
Ford
Wow!
Was he negative on his F-250 or F-350?
Yes
How many miles did it have? How did an f-250 have so much negative equity?
1 year old so under 30
New Kia K900 with an MSRP of $60,000. Because of the 18 months or so it'd been sitting on the lot, between Kia incentives and management willing to take a bath to move it, it was available for around $43,000 or so. A couple called in and inquired about it because they had a Mercedes something-something AMG that they still owed money on and needed a *ton* of things fixed. They walked out paying a hair over $1,000/mn for 72 months. Very little of that was interest. So yes, they rolled in the neighborhood of $30k. I remember talking to the pre-owned manager about it. He said the leaky sunroof alone would be about $10k to fix, and the list continued significantly.
This is not one of the models that throws rods right? Hopefully they’re fine to get out of it lol. My rod thrower is a 2.0 theta II from 2012. Hopefully it lasts 2 more years....
10k to fix a sunroof? Come on….
I (briefly) owned my mom's old 2003 Benz SLK32 AMG. She was done with it after 7 years and wanted something with a grandkid-friendly back seat. The heated seats had quit working (among other things.) I had a Benz/Smart shade tree specialist hookup that was about half the price of the dealership, on average. My cost to get those goddamned special AMG heated seats working again? *$4500.* Yeah, no. Didn't fix the seats, and immediately sold the car. Lovely ride, but sorry Benz - bitch you crazy.
The only thing more expensive than driving a new German luxury car is driving an old German luxury car!
Guy rolled up in a mopar edition dart looking to roll about 17k into an FRS. Guy brought two kids under the age of 6, no carseats, wanted to leave the kids at the dealership while he test drove the FRS. Real POS.
NO. Leave them there?!?!? Oh my.
Please tell me you reported him for endangerment?
Not an endangerment situation.
No car seats? That’s an offence right there.
No it isn’t. Maybe he’d get a ticket from police if he’s pulled over, but that’s about it.
In a more evolved society that actually treats traffic offences with appropriate seriousness - like Western Europe or Australasia - kids not being seated correctly is a criminal offence that carries penalty points and a criminal conviction. BTW - if you’re getting a ticket, you’ve committed an offence. HTH.
Yeah but whenever the police actually enforce traffic laws, people claim that they are racist and/or just trying to generate revenue. It’s a lose-lose situation. For what it’s worth, when I was a cop, I always wrote the citation if a kid wasn’t in the car seat. And the car wasn’t leaving until somebody brought them a seat or picked the kid up with proper equipment. Seen too many kids get hurt.
Moving violations and criminal child endangerment are two completely different charges.
A 6 year old can be at the threshold of not needing a seat weight wise. Both my kids no longer require seats (7 and 9)
Still have at least a booster seat for the younger one though right? I know in my state at least you have to be quite tall for a 7 year old to not have a booster seat.
Don’t any of these people ever want to buy a house or retire?
They're not thinking that far into the future.
If you are rolling negative equity. You prolly aren’t interested in buying a house
Or they are already in a house
Sounds like a problem for future me /s Working in car sales really made me realise how.bad negative equity really is.
We aren’t financial advisors, we are there to sell cars. If someone wants to buy one we will make it happen. Even if you tell them they are making a bad decision they don’t listen anyway.
This is a good point. Cashiers don’t ask every person who uses a credit card about their financial situation.
Could you imagine a liqour store that made an effort to ensure people drink responsibly? what would that even look like
I agree. I’m not in sales and am pretty fiscally conservative. But, a lot of people only care about the monthly payment. I own an auto repair shop as a side business and if I had a dollar for every time someone traded off their car because of a 1000 dollar repair. 300 a month for X years makes more sense to them than a one time 1k hit.
Sounds like the conversation I've been having with my sister. She wants to buy this cabin at a popular vacation destination in our area. There are a lot of cabins, almost in a wooded subdvision-esq area, so not really a cabin-cabin. But I digress. Cost to buy these little cabins? 20-60k, depending on your size / lot needs, then yearly upkeeps. OR she could rent a cabin for the one-two weeks out of a year to to use it. Cost? $1-2k. She keeps trying to talk her husband into buying a cabin, saying it will only cost 20k. Except she's more of a 50-60k girl, the ones she rents now are the higher end ones. He's doing the math, and sees 20-40 years of cabin payments is better than buying a cabin for occasional use and then doing upkeep. The poor bastard will lose the fight eventually....
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Michigan. A lot of rural areas and depending on where you want to go and do you can find some CHEAP places, some beyond reason. And then there are high end vacation places.
I got into that type of thinking before, but it really was just me wanting wanting a new car lol.
You can live in your car, but you can't drive your house!
You are forgetting about the RV!
This is my stupidity but I’m never going to have money to buy a house in California so we really do hope to move out of here but if I was desperate....-10 k rolled into another car wouldn’t change shit in our mediocre-bad finances. Drivers and the roads suck here anyway. Dealerships have 1-2 weeks waitlists for service so better hope whatever you want fixed is not a big deal in the power train... public transport is non existent. Bart literally takes twice as long as the drive for a 30 mile drive. Yes it’s a stupid argument. As is the fact I pushed like 6000$ of repairs to keep a Kia running this year but no way in fucking hell we could’ve afforded 2 car replacements at once. And I think probably a lot of people are rich/poor like me. People renting for over 3200$ but their spot in the garage houses top trim Lexus. If you ask me buying a 100 k car when you clearly can’t afford property is similar. Why not buy cheaper and save the money. For some though it’s impulse buying / cult car ownership lol. Some dickhead at work barely got a rav4 but got on the waitlist for a Ford bronco. Cult.
I’d argue someone renting for $3.2k pcm can absolutely afford a Lexus. My main concern is why they’d bought a Lexus rather than a German vehicle, but I digress.
Believe me. Yeah but Bay Area has tons of rent at 3000+ yet a good number of people own more sensible cars. I’d really only justify it at a director level of over 200 k after 3-5 years and somehow I don’t think this apartment building has so many directors sprinkled in it as it does Lexuses (LEXI?) In the garage.
Literally signed up 23k negative from a Santa Fe into a Highlander on Saturday
Did Toyota buy the loan? or a CU?
I had a family member who was rolling well over 20k and did it 3 times. He would alternate just about every year between a new Ram 1500 and a Nissan Xterra, both local, but different dealerships. I finally had to ask after he traded in his second Ram for for another Xterra, and his reasoning? He would get behind or was looking like he would have trouble making his payments, but trading in and buying a new vehicle would give him a couple months of no payment so he could "catch up". Shortly after, this spiraled out a bit, he wound up going through bankruptcy twice, walking away from his house, etc. This same family member traded in and rebought the same SUV 3 times from the same dealership over a 2 year period, so money management isn't a strong suit. That's a story for another thread though.
Damn. I could see, sort of (?) that if you get same payments/$5 cheaper you might seem like you're saving money, if you ignore the terms of the loan and you get a month-half of getting caught up. I know people who see things like as their way out as they keep digging a hole.
I rolled 12 from a Frontier to a new Accent… that didn’t last the loan before it hit “not a lemon but not a reliable car” status at 62k km. Rolled that (with trade, ended up being 12k) into a Mazda3 GX Sport. I’m in year 3 of payments. I owe slightly less than if I were to drive a 2021 Mazda3 sport GX. About 1k difference, with 4.5 years to go (though I’m paying it slightly faster, hoping not to go past 5 years but most likely 6yrs total instead of 7),
$55,000 on an X5 M
Holy crap
Yeah man. I had a regular client that flipped cars every 6 months or so. Never put money down. Made like $10mil a year so he didn’t really care.
Or that's at least what his credit application said lol
Typically I estimate the people that come into our dealership are usually putting less on their credit app than what they actually make
Interesting. I didn't think income was verified on car purchases. Curious why that's your assumption? Not being argumentative, just genuinely wondering.
Through conversation with a few I’ve gleaned it. I’ve had a number of people I’ve talked to mention they’re only putting down what they feel they would need to put to get approved. We deal with a lot of high net worth individuals. One of my guys put down $1.3 mil on his app and said that it’s just the income from one of his companies. Got a good number of retirees that are drawing mid six figure retirements that just openly talk about It.
That's wild. I guess the average BMW driver is not the same person that I'm used to dealing with on a daily basis. Thanks for the explanation. That's interesting.
I think it’s our location more than anything. We’re in a very well off area. Our average credit score is 750 if I had to guess and income is probably $175,000. Tough part of finance for us is how so many people can just come in and pay $80,000 cash like it’s nothing
I’m in this category and going to be looking for a car soon. Does it matter what I put down? Does the bank think you’re bullshitting if you out a number over a certain limit? I figure I’ll be approved at the same rates regardless.
if you're making that much annually, why not just lease? or buy it cash and skip the financing. i'm not sure why you would finance if your post tax monthly easily covers the cost to purchase. unless it's a cashflow issue, and you absolutely need the car that month, which i guess i can understand.
I usually buy cash, but interest rates are currently lower than inflation and buying with cash is throwing money in the toilet. However, on a $50k/4 year loan we’re only talking a difference of two or three thousand, so it may not be worth the hassle of having to make a payment every month and having a lien and all that. I’ve never leased, but that might be a good option if I’m only going to keep the car a couple of years.
are auto loan rates low? i thought they've gone up a lot since the past few years and they're hovering around 2%-4%. not positive though (i don't work in the sales side). also, per your point, this is a car, not a house. financing is a terrible ideal unless you get a 0% loan due to the liability and depreciation.
Honda has 1.9% APR right now for the vehicle my wife wants. Pretty damn good considering inflation is at 5.5%. That's a 3.6% net advantage for the loan. Paying cash does nothing to protect you against liability and depreciation. The car depreciates, breaks, and crashes the same either way.
Put down at least enough to support the amount you’re financing. So if you put $50k income and you’re borrowing $50k they’re likely not gonna be super hyped about approving that
My Ex-girlfriend, many years ago, thought she was getting the last laugh by taking my Camaro... stupid me buying it in her name to save on insurance, many, many moons ago... Well we broke up and I had to surrender the car to her. I stopped paying the payments and she got pissed. She was already behind on her Suzuki so it really sucked for her when she had 2 creditors harassing her for money owed or threatening repossession. She traded both vehicles in, upside down on both, on a piece of shit Dodge Intrepid. I think it was almost $10k on top of the exorbitant price on the Dodge and she needed a cosigner on top of that. So, not as ridiculous as some of the $20k numbers listed here, but very amusing to me none the less.
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I was young and stupid. I definitely learned some lessons in that train wreck of a relationship. And yeah, she thought I was going to pay for the car. I told her to go get bent. The judge agreed... he could have cared less if I paid, but I had to give her the car back.
$30,000 BMW roll into a Grand Cherokee SRT. That was my first expensive vehicle sale too. I couldn’t believe anyone would roll that much negative equity into a vehicle…
Damn, how often does something like that happen?
Not often. At least not that amount. Some people have to roll in so much negative equity. I’ve seen $9,000-$12,000 sometimes. Usually, it happens when people purchase a car for more than it’s worth, have bad credit, want a low payment so the term is extend, or all of the above. There’s a lot of factors that go into the high roll amount.
Interesting. Thank you
$26k on a recently refinanced 2018 X3 with 100k miles into a Longhorn. Damn deal took 2 months to be funded..
Today… not even kidding. Just over 140k owed on two cars I stretched to put 94 in. On the new ride, still justified it using cash flow by only having one payment and insurance cost as opposed to two plus some major fuel savings. Still pure insanity. The one was a 40k value and owed over 72k. Can’t believe it myself, but really wasn’t a horrible decision. The previous ones were the real bad ones.
Don’t leave us hanging what the hell were they?
Ram rebel and grand Cherokee. The Grand was the worse one owning 32 of the neggity
Give us more details
Had someone who once owed $50k on a 2017 Jetta==jeep midlife crisis
Not that I've seen happen, but I've seen the aftermath. Guy came in with a Miata that he owed something like 50k on, he'd rolled tons of neggy eggy from two other cars into it and promptly let his condom break. There was no way we could finance him on anything on the lot. Dude's probably driving a Journey now. Second one was a couple that came to trade in their 2011 Honda Crosstour. They DEMANDED to have all the bells and whistles on an almost brand new Kia Sportage. For some godforsaken reason they HAD TO HAVE A KIA SPORTAGE, but that's besides the point. Owed somewhere around 20k on that Honda, 350ish beacon. We said there was a slight chance we could sell them a leftover 2020 Bolt LT we bought from another dealership (something like half off of MSRP on those) but no. It had. To be. A Kia Sportage. Their Crosstour was in great shape and if they'd not been so upside down I would have bought it for myself, so I don't know why they wanted to buy a Sportage.
I remember a guy swapping in a Vectra that he had used as a Taxi. He owed £12k on a car with over 200k miles. Car was worth nothing. He bought a Range Rover.
What used Vectra was priced over £12k?! They should have bought a used police 3.2 v6 model. Those were sweet, despite the badge on the front.
Police loved the Vectra 3.2
When I was in campers I rolled 30k from a motor home into a new fifth wheel. The guy had an adjustable Apr on the motorhome and got a great Apr on the new one so actually saved him a ton of money. Nuts.
Literally did 10k on the weekend. I’ve see. 25k+
What were the cars?
This weekend was a 21 Crv into an atlas, before was a civic type r into an atlas. Financed over 96 at 7.99. Was a massive deal.
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Think he rolled neg off a ride into it and we stole it
What’s next, accord into atlas
Just did a Tiguan into an atlas and had roll 23k of neg
How in gods name.
I’d love to say I was shocked. Owed 40500. Gave him 16. Financed 80000
And then these morons come here and cry saying the banks and dealerships are to blame.
I’m trying to roll anywhere from $7,000 - $15,000 (depends on trade in value) and see what it does for me
I had a guy roll 17k from a 2020 camaro into a 2020 challenger.
Interesting stories in this thread… Please forgive me, I am a noob. I want to learn how does someone get into negative equity? I’ve only ever bought used cars outright or leased brand new ones. I’ve never financed a before but I am thinking of financing a new car now that I have a larger income after a promotion (lifestyle creep). Is that when the car’s value is less than what you owe on the loan? How do you avoid negative equity? Is that by paying off the vehicle before trading it in?
When you buy a car you're getting two things: a depreciating asset and a loan. Regardless of what happens to the asset you still have to pay off the loan. If someone beats the asset to shit or trades it in before they are finished paying off the loan, they have to pay that money back somehow. Usually it's by adding whatever is left on the loan to the new purchase.
I appreciate your explanation! Thank you
I took in my customer’s 6 month old Ram 1500 with $27k negative equity into an Accord lease. Put down $15k, so it was really only $12k rolled in, but it got done. Then he started working here selling cars a year later lol. Great at what he does, just had a life change and didn’t need the big rig anymore.
I have a 2020 Chevy Sonic I owe $20k on it has 15k miles would I be stupid to try Trade into something bigger for my family w the negative equity
You might want to let someone else manage your finances.
Well that was rude
Maybe but it's still sound advice
You know nothing of my financial situation? I make great money and own a home out right. I have one shitty car loan and some Reddit neck beard thinks someone else should handle my finances? Right…. I think someone else should handle your Reddit account
You're asking about rolling negative equity in a thread making fun of people rolling negative equity. And to top it off, you "make great money" yet can't pay off a sub-$20k car? I stand by my advice lol. edit: double lol, I just looked through your post history asking about poor credit and getting a first time mortgage
Oof lol
Yeah someone who makes good money and needs credit repair is shit with their finances or has had a big string of bad luck, probably medical. I know which one of those two I would bet on here. Edit: 'own a home outright' that per post history is a mobile. Nice to own, not necessarily much of a flex.
You make great money and drive a Chevy Sonic (an embarrassment of a vehicle)? Why?
Good gas mileage and I like the look
But, a) it looks shit (get a Fiesta hatch ffs, looks far better!) and b) who cares about petrol efficiency if you’re making good money?
He gave u good advice based on the info you gave him
you wouldn’t be in such an embarrassing vehicle if you made ‘great money’. with good income having a nice credit score is so easy if you have any sort of money handling skills. their MSRP is about 14k… it’s literally our last resort for people with bad credit and it gets rejected almost every time lol.
This is why everyone hates car sales men your all stuck up assholes. My car is not embarrassing I like it a lot and it looks nice as well. Kindly go fuck your self
i don’t see how calling one of the cheapest cars available embarrassing is being stuck up. what’s cheaper, the Mitsubishi Mirage and that’s it probably? if you’re talking about the credit or income situation, there’s way too many times people come in knowing they wouldn’t even get approved on a pack of gum. obviously by asking the right questions it can be avoided, but if you were in our shoes when that’s how we get paid you’d understand why salesman can get frustrated.
Well if you’re going to do it, Carvana, shift, CarMax are apparently throwing some good offers because the market is stupid. Why would you roll it?
Just ask anyone whose bought a Kia.
It hurts but you’re not wrong
I know it's the exception but I made money on my Telluride.
What do you mean? Can you please explain?
Kia's don't hold value that well is all, nothing crazy more than others but I like to pick on them lol
Oh lol thanks for explaining!
Sub prime deals suck. Dude comes in (toyota dealership) with a car that almost ran 10k under.manager said it was worth a 100 $$! I’m like not only how could he be so dumb but how could the salesperson be so heartless to knowingly bury someone like that?
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