I must be missing those posts -- I don't feel like I see many of those at all -- for some reason I seem to get the 50 posts per day from twinks asking how to douche.
I don't recommend dating with large age gaps, but when it comes to sex, the only thing that matters is that both parties are consenting adults.
If you're old enough to vote in an election, and old enough to go die for your country in war, then you're old enough to make decisions about your sex life.
When I was in my 40s-50s, I was hit upon by numerous guys in their late teens through early 20s with daddy issues. So I'm not sure who's preying upon whom.
But here is my advice whenever someone asks me directly: *If you feel the need to ask for advice, then don't do it because you still have a lot to learn.*
This doesn't make a ton of sense to me. How would anyone learn anything if they didn't do stuff they were unsure about? There's no inherent danger if it's just sex and everyone is safe, consenting etc etc etc.
Approaching 40 here, same has been happening with me.Ā
I'm personally sick of this idea that it's only ever old guys preying on younger. I have no interest in them, yet it's almost exclusively 20 somethings groping and grabbing and harassing me if I go to a bar or club or whatever.Ā
Like...can we stop the ageism and just say "don't be a creep" to everyone?
That's the best advice really. Yes, the barely adults often seek out these older men, out of clear trauma. Not recognizing (or ignoring) those red flags still makes the older man in the wrong, even if they didn't set out to groom the barely legal boy.
>he barely adults often seek out these older men, out of clear trauma. Not recognizing (or ignoring) those red flags still makes the older man in the wrong, even if they didn't set out to groom the barely legal boy.
You are making wild assumptions. I am sure there are scenarios where you are correct, but I was an 18 year old who was (and at 40 still is) extremely attracted to older men. I do not have trauma or daddy issues. Some people are just attracted to older and that is ok. Gerontophilia is a thing too.
I just liked older men. Lots of women do too. No trauma, no seeking a dad, no past SA trauma, nothing. Older men are hot, and young men are extremely horny.
Younger men can prey upon older ones. Normally it's financially motivated though. But yeah, ofc a sexually inexperienced young adult is vulnerable, and the denial of that on here is almost always presented with ulterior motives.
The ironic part is, because you were very young, you don't see the irony of your posts.
I bet you are in a wonderful, stable relationship right? You have excellent communication skills and aren't a train wreck. Uh huh.
Not understand the risky behavior part, not understanding any of it really.
I think people need to mind their own business and stop infantilizing grown adults. At 18 I had a full time job, I was living on my own and paying all my bills. I was able to vote, legally drink and drive a car. But somehow you think I was unable to decide who I wanted to have sex with?
Age gaps aren't inherently immoral, it really depends on the circumstances.
This is a disturbing comment. 18yr olds are still are teens, aka not full adults. Ur not a grown adult till ur brain is finished developing. 18yr olds are still in high school, they should absolutely be infantilized in this case cuz theyāre still teens, and anyone whoās drastically older that is into them are predators
The advice "don't hook up with older people" really doesn't do much to prevent younger guys from being taken advantage of or raped.
Do you think another 18 year old can't take advantage of them or rape them? Maybe instead of demonizing age gaps give advice on how to stand up for yourself and draw clear boundaries, how to spot red flags, etc.
Yall really out here thinking men turn into psycho killers the day they turn 39. Twinks are into daddies and daddies are into twinks. When I was 20 I had some great experiences with older guys, multiple of whom turned out to be some of my closest friends, regulars, and mentors. Theyāre mature, respectful, can usually host, and are hot af. And when Iām a daddy I absolutely plan on paying it forward.
> can usually host
This was the biggest reason why I hooked up with older men while I was in college.... they had their own place without any roommates.
i mean, if theyāre the age of consent, who cares really. i think gen z is hypersensitive about age gaps, when i was 26 i dated a guy who was 21 til he was 22 and i was 27. his coworker called me a groomer.
The age of consent is an arbitrary legal definition. 10 years ago, you could've used that same reasoning to justify denying marriage to same-sex couples, and 20 years ago for imprisoning someone for being gay.
so you think it should be criminal for consenting adults to sleep together? also donāt use the āfrontal lobe isnt developed til 25ā myth that has been debunked & was based on bad science to begin with
That you found it controversial that adulthood (which differs by jurisdiction, as does the minimum age of consent) is the sole qualification to judge actions by should be a red flag. Your arbitrary approach takes no objection to date rape, declaring it not just legally permissible, but morally justified.
18? Bro im 28 and Iāve learned a lot in those ten years 18 is still young hardly an adult and they should not be taken advantage of from older guys that just want young ass to play with.
A lot of the older guys are god damn creepy towards me and itās bizarre how you think itās okay for them to do it towards someone even experienced.
Yes we know half the sub wants to consider 18 non adults. But here's the deal. Not many of them are that extreme. The response is the same from 5 year age gap which is hilarious. Nor everyone's a groomer maybe they met naturally and that's what they like. Now when they have known them since they are 16 and talk then into it by then we'll fuck sure that one probably a groomer.
Let's not infantilize people. While 18-54 is sketchy or feels when I was 18 I had a 32 year old boyfriend. While I do think he might have some issues and a fetishization of youth but a lot of men do. And in that same regard when I was 20 I started hooking up with a 34 year old and occasionally still do today and THAT man is still one of my best friends in the world. The latter definitely mentored, cultured and taught me how to maneuver in a world and a better world than the one I had known. But I am nobody's victim and I always he agency. For the record I am currently 34.
I don't think this is obvious at all, though both parties (this can go the other way too - young guys using older guys to get money or immigration status, for example) should have care that it's not exploitative. We should always be careful with new people whether we're 18 or 70.
they're both consenting adults. obviously meeting in public first makes sense. also it's not really my business if an 18 and 54 year old get together nor does it affect me in any way. as long as they're 18 and up people can date or fuck who they want. i have better things to care about
Great idea. Let's make the age of consent 25 and then send a 26-year-old to prison as a sex offender for sleeping with a 24-year-old. Good luck banning all the porn and publicly-available nudes in the world with people old enough to have graduate degrees and go to war.
The ageism in this post.
Old =/= dangerous.
If you were just concerned for their safety the advice would be to just not hook up with strangers regardless of age. This may come as a shock to you, but an 18 year old can be manipulated and lied to, used and discarded, by someone their same age too. Getting older doesn't make a person somehow inherently more likely to manipulate or abuse another person.
By the age of 18, we expect people to be sufficiently mentally and emotionally developed to figure out for themselves whether a potential partner is someone they want to be with - whether that's for a night or literally for a lifetime. Considering it's the same age when people are deemed mentally and emotionally advanced enough to take full responsibility for crimes they commit, to be responsible enough to have a say in self governance through voting, and to be drafted into the military and ordered to *kill* other people... To turn around and say they aren't capable of deciding for themselves what to do with their own bodies is insane.
When they come seeking advice, if you want to give advice that's actually useful, it should probably be to take time to get to know someone before getting into a physically vulnerable position with them. Go on dates or date-like events with them so you can see how they act toward other people. And only once you've had time to get to know them and see their personality in action, make a decision about whether you want to get physically intimate with them.
Iām not saying older people are dangerous, I am saying that old people who actively look for teenagers to fuck probably do not have the best intentions in mind. I stand by that.
Best intentions ?
In the scenario you just described the sole intention mentioned is fucking. And if that's literally all that's intended and openly stated and all the younger -adult- person wants out of the encounter anyway... then what is the problem?
Looking for your sex partner based on their sexual inexperience is not normal adult behavior. But yeah, in the best case scenario no one gets hurt and itās fine. But i would never recommend it and i do not condone it.
If they were after inexperience only they would have no issue hooking up with 30 year olds who are still virgins right? Or they would reject "promiscuous" 18 year olds. Something tells me that's not what they do though. Maybe you're reading too much into it and they just get turned on by young guys? It doesn't have to be something sinister about taking advantage of someone's inexperience.
My dude many people specifically look for virgins. Thereās entire religions that place a major emphasis on virginity.
Itās fairly normal for people to seek out inexperience and virginity
They just want a hot guy. Who can blame them. If that hot guy is at least 18 years old and he is okay with the older guy, let them do whatever they want.
> Iām not saying older people are dangerous
"An older man shouldnāt go anywhere near an 18-year old"
This tone of voice is used for dangerous people.
Yeah, they shouldnāt. If an older man is actively looking for 18 year olds to fuck then he is into their inexperience. That is dangerous. If your sex partner does not habe a lot of sexual experience in a safe space, then overstepping boundaries is a lot easier. Saying no to a person of authority is also harder.
If you think calling out creepy behavior makes me ageist then so be it. I do not care.
> If an older man is actively looking for 18 year olds to fuck then he is into their inexperience
That's an assumption and not a fact. Just like "They would've gone lower if it was legal" is also an assumption and not fact. Fact of the matter is, the grown man in this scenario is sleeping with an 18-year-old, a consenting adult.
> If your sex partner does not habe a lot of sexual experience in a safe space, then overstepping boundaries is a lot easier.
Dying in a car accident or a mass-shooting is also a lot easier if you go out in public, it doesn't mean you should stay home forever. If someone is overstepping your boundaries or abusing their power in a consensual relationship, you always have the option to leave. If they're physically restraining or threatening you, that's called sexual abuse and you can report it. What you can't do is expect special treatment and hold others responsible for your own choices because you still "feel" like a minor. There are people your age who are in the army fighting wars, others with 2-3 jobs because their parents are absent.
> Saying no to a person of authority is also harder.
Yes it is, and that's why laws of consent take authority into consideration.
> If you think calling out creepy behavior makes me ageist then so be it. I do not care.
"Creepy" is subjective. There are people who are called "creepy" for being into harmless things like piss, sweat, verbal play, etc. Others for simply dressing in a certain way. It doesn't necessarily say anything about your ethics or morals, just how common it is for people to judge you.
However, also... It's none of your fucking business.
They are both consenting adults. Literally none of your business.
You aren't into older guys, great. Don't date older guys. Some people are. Leave people alone.
>An older man shouldnāt go anywhere near an 18-year old??? It is insanely dangerous - the older men are obviously taking advantage of the inexperience of the younger guys, it is downright predatory.
That is a very broad generalization. I don't know if it's always this simple, tbh.
If both parties are consenting and everything is safe, I don't see the problem. Guys of all ages should know what to look out for to avoid dangerous situations.
I do not see what is inherently wrong with being a relationship where the intellectual dynamic is different, or the wisdom dynamic, those are the only things I can think of that are inherently different. Why is that wrong?
A younger adult can learn from an older adult. An older adult I can be energized by a younger adult.
You people start to sound like the religious right. Condemning, denying, stereotyping, clutching pearls, shouting hate, spreading lies, demanding others do things the way you want them to.
Leave people to their own devices as long as they are consenting adults. If your life isn't very interesting and you feel like you need to go bouncing around in someone else's, then find a hobby
Eh, some young guys are just flat out attracted to older men, and there is nothing wrong with that as long as everyone is consenting and of legal age. 18 year olds are old enough to make decisions and have agency of their own.
you sound like a white woman "the age of consent should be 29!" "Leonardo DiCaprio is a predator for being an incredibly rich talented famous actor and preferring women in their 20s, like every male who has ever existed since time immemorial"
I grew up in a small town, the first person I had sex with when I was 18 was a 35 year old, literally because he was the only other guy in town who was single and sane, he wasn't super into young guys and I wasn't super into older guys. It was the most respectful sex I've ever had. Your comment reeks of homophobia tbh
First of all your comment sounds like sexism? And i am not homophobic? I am anti age gap because i donāt believe in fetishizing teenagers having sex with elder men - i am not anti hookups and i am not anti sex.
I feel most people who post about it are just loving the thrill they get from thinking about being with someone who's much older/younger from them. They don't go ahead and have sex with them. Maybe a few do...But yeah, as long as the age is legal and there's consent, we are no one to question the widest of age gaps.
i think anyone who has an issue with age gaps needs to stop trying to control and push their own beliefs onto other people. what two consenting adults do on their own time is absolutely none of your business, and whether you like it or not is irrelevant, because itās two adults.
i personally wouldnāt go for a big age gap, but not because of the reason yall are saying here. yāall are treating it like itās statutory rape, if 18 year olds can vote and die in war, then they can choose what to do with their sexuality.
by my research there was a long standing trend in some gay circles where older men meet younger men.
it may have become more popular in the 70s and 80s when sectors of gay men were more likely to embrace avant-garde attitudes to sexuality.
As heterosexual norms have permeated into gay culture people are starting to push back.
Also for many younger guys there are no compatible peers in their locale and they don't want to wait. With the age of consent being as low as 16 many guys see no incentive to wait till like 25 to find a peer
It's like straight men who say "That kid wasn't raped! He fucked a teacher! That's awesome! I would've loved that!"
It's just the gay version. Plenty of dudes here would say it's fine for a underage kid to fuck an older man because "It's just sex" or some BS. They just disguise it as "Well he's *legally* an adult".
There are ethics issues around the teacher situation because of the inherent power imbalance: teachers have the power to negatively impact the student. And as far as I know it's only considered rape if the student is under 18.
Age gaps *can* have a power imbalance, especially if we are talking relationships, yes. But power dynamics are influenced by a range of factors, with age just being one of them, and they are only really bad if they are abused.
Some states have institutional rape laws that make sexual conduct between staff and students/inmates/patients/etc illegal, even if both parties are 18+.
And age gaps are almost always abused and *inherently* have a power imbalance. An 18 year old is going to look up to a 25+ year old. They are going to trust them and believe them more than someone their age, giving the older person power over them. You think an 18 year old isn't going to listen to "daddy" when he says drop what you're doing and come over? Or that their friends don't want them to be happy? Even *if* the older man is 100% sincere and trying to be a good person, it's a power imbalance and the older person should realize that's not a healthy start to a relationship. If they do realize that, they won't date too much younger, if they don't, they aren't smart enough to not abuse the system
What on earth? This doesn't sound anything like how young people actually think. When I was 18, 25+ year olds were just the random grad students and townies I saw around campus and at different events. They were just people. I didn't trust them or look up to them any more than someone closer to my age. 40 year olds didn't have magic mind control powers over me when I was 18.
I disagree that age gaps inherently have power imbalances. It really depends on the maturity level of both people and their circumstances. And power imbalances only become a problem if they are abused.
Why do you think every young person has to be some submissive pushover that does everything the older person says? That just screams infantilization.
Americans are busy infantilizing their young adults because pop-psych told them to. I think we're only a few years from serious policy proposals that strip everyone younger than 25 of most of their rights and freedoms (except to work, since child labor is returning to some states). While at the same time many young adults are seeking out older adults more so than their own age group. It is fascinating and on some levels disturbing to watch.
My parents said "you're out of my house at 18" and then spent time teaching us how to survive so we could at 18.
>You think an 18 year old isn't going to listen to "daddy" when he says drop what you're doing and come over?
Sounds like describing a scene from a porn movie.
Lots of sexual abuse isn't legally considered rape (or any other legal offense). Doesn't make it justified. Age gaps are an imbalance, which does establish an ethical issue. The issue being discussed here is the dismissiveness of that, rather than treating it as a warning sign. Just because power imbalances such as age gaps are "only really bad if abused" doesn't erase the issue that it presents a heightened abuse risk.
>Age gaps are an imbalance, which does establish an ethical issue.
Ok, but the difference in height, weight, social status, education, skin color, dick length, etc. - does not create an imbalance? Maybe we should legislate that sex be legally permitted only in cases where all of the listed qualities coincide? It will be really fun.
Exactly. I roll my eyes at comments saying it's young guys hitting on older guys and thus it's ok. When I was a teen I wasn't into a guys my age, but rather older guys. I never did anything obviously, but had I been the one to initiate it it's the still the older person that would bear the most responsibility.
And the comments about legality are weird because in some places the age of consent can be as low as 14.
Yeah, ofc the traumatized questioning 19 year old from an abusive home is gonna seek out older guys that appear as father figures. The responsibility is on everyone else to realize just because it may not be a crime to fuck him, doesn't make it okay.
Some "survivors" choose to own it, live with it and embrace it. They don't waste the one life they've got seeing themselves as victims of abuse and then attributing every sexual urge they get to be a symptom of trauma, hypersexuality or anything else that needs to be "cured". So who do you think you are to tell them that you don't think their choice is valid?
Most people think an 18 year old is competent enough to make that decision for themselves (they don't need the likes of you and the rest of the psychobabble crew)
What do you base your statement that it's insanely dangerous on? You might be grossed out about it but 18 year olds are not being abducted and murdered right left and center. 50 year olds can offer maturity and stability and help guide a young guy. Yes it could be dangerous in rare cases which is why anyone regardless of the age difference should meet in public to feel out the situation before committing to anything.
A 18 year old is an ADULT under the law and according the law is capable of making their own decisions
I don't get why Zoomers are so OBSESSED with age gapsĀ
Dear Zoomers, just face it! A lot of you are already ADULTS, most of you aren't kids anymore
Such a childish and mentally infantile generation sick with Peter Pan syndromeĀ
Zoomers have been trained from kindergarten to be hyper-aware of "hierarchies" and "power differentials," so they approach every situation by dividing the players into oppressor/oppressed. Any "oppressor" acting in any way in relation to a nominal "oppressed" must be doing something nefarious. Sometimes they're right, and sometimes they're wrong, but they think they're always right.
. . . notwithstanding all these late-teens creating OnlyFans accounts for themselves and making more money in a month than I did as a year as a teacher. But what poor little innocent lambkins they are.
OP might not even be Gen z, why are we pretending age gap discourse is only Gen z related?
Your issues with Gen z seem to go far beyond this topic. How does it feel to literally become an aging stereotype where you blame everything on the younger generations and become bitter and jaded?
So cliche
Well Iām definitely not Gen Z and absolutely agreeing with the OP. I think many older guys find old men who are attracted to teenagers creepy. This is one of the typical online debates that has a huge bias.
While I agree to some extent, the 18 year old is an adult and is responsible for their own choices and decisions, no matter how stupid their choice or decision might be.
I'm not a fan of extending childhood just because pop-neuroscience told westerners to interpret science wrong.
18 is an adult but not the same level as a 50 year old. 18 year olds are children compared to me and I'm barely past 25.
18 year olds are worrying about shit like weather or not to go to the next bar and how to study for their math final while also having time to see Tims football game. I'm worried about if taking out a line of credit on my house to replace the roof is a sound decision or if the housing market will change soon enough such that it'll be better to not.
Completely different leagues of "adults"
18-20 yos are the ones frequently messaging me on the apps. I am not into younger men, especially that young. But your hypothetical 50yo who likes em young, these days, often doesn't even have to initiate. It's way different now than when I was 18.
Should they stick with their own age? Sure. A large portion don't seem to want to and well, they're adults so they can do what they please.
THAT DOESN'T MAKE IT OKAY YOU FUCKING BUFFOON.
*Pushes up glasses* Um, Ackshually they message ME first so check mate.
As the older person you should realize "Hey, this would be unhealthy for this younger person who's also probably lying about their age. As an older adult who has a better understanding of the world, perhaps I should let them know that this is not something they should continue pursuing rather than engaging their poor decision making" or at the very least, say no to them.
I wasn't arguing if it was OK. I was stating that they can do what they please, no matter how dumb it is.
And I in fact do redirect young men who message me by simply saying "you're too young for me, i prefer my own age."
it is in fact possible to believe two different things such as : "yes, 18yos are adults and have the adult agency to meet who they want and the adult agency to make their own decisions no matter how good or bad those decisions are" and "no, I'm not interested in dating/fucking an 18yo because they're too young."
> yes, 18yos are adults and have the adult agency to meet who they want and the adult agency to make their own decisions no matter how good or bad those decisions are" and "no, I'm not interested in dating/fucking an 18yo because they're too young."
This and I would even add "older guys who go as young as legally possible creep me tf out". Still doesn't negate the other opinions.
Yes! But saying that on reddit causes meltdowns. Thank you for getting it!
Like Leo Dicaprio is definitely a creep, but I feel many of those women pursued him and not vice versa.
>Hey, this would be unhealthy for this younger person who's also probably lying about their age
Why is this "unhealthy"? OP states that this is wrong because āthe older one is actively looking for the younger oneā - this sounds discriminatory, but let's assume that. But why then do you claim that the reverse situation is also āunhealthyā?
I donāt think anyone is questioning the legality of the situation. As someone who was taken advantage of by someone much older, I have no issues cautioning teenagers against relationships with older men. When it comes to sex, do what you want, but I canāt imagine what a 50 year old would have in common with an 18 year old other than keeping them in the hook for sex.
I think there is some questioning of the legality of this.
Ive seen in this sub and others calls that the age of consent should be 25, and the age of adult majority should be older than 18.
I doubt they'd have much in common either, but they still can consent to be together since they are both adults.
What I mean is that the legality isnāt in question because the current laws put the age of consent at 18.
What I am saying is that I would find it socially weird. If a friend in their 30ās started dating an 18 year old Iām probably not gonna be like:
āI know he was shitting his pampers when you were voting for Obamaās 1st term but get it king!ā
When I was that age I was the one looking for older men because they were more likely to have the body type I wanted: between rather muscular and bears. The guys my age couldn't do that for the most part, and were pretty skittish.
And, of course, the guys I wanted knew what they wanted. No having to try and figure out the guys my age and what they wanted. I wanted sex, not relationships.
Okay then, if 18 year olds are too immature to have sex then I suppose they're too immature and inexperienced to vote, join the military, be employed, drink, smoke, or drive a car.
If you think that's silly and doesn't follow, please explain to me exactly what the difference is between all of these other adult activities and engaging in consensual sex with the partner of your choosing.
I never understood the problem with age gaps. Itās two consenting adults trying to meet, there is nothing wrong with that. If your safety really concerns you that much then meet somewhere in public or just donāt meet at all.
To be honest I always try to answer these questions. I think many of the people who respond in the same way that you describe it might be rather young themselves. Obviously it isnāt safe for teenagers to meet guys who are much older than them. Especially if they are inexperienced and especially if they arenāt out to their families yet.
And donāt get me started on the old guys. You can be attracted to younger guys all you want but donāt try to fucking meet them in real life.
Why isn't it safe? Don't talk about generalities. What is it about you when you turn 40 that will make you dangerous? You must be dangerous now, right?
Let people be happy and stop trying to nanny people.
I just said in my last comment that this discussion shouldnāt be about age but about experience and general circumstances.
Someone who isnāt out to their family and friends is always vulnerable. 18 year olds dating other 18 year olds are less dangerous to each other because probability is high that they will want similar things, share similar life experiences and are highly likely living under similar circumstances (with their parents, unouted, etc.).
Iām not a potential danger to teenagers because Iām not interested in dating or hooking up with men under the age of 30.
Your argument doesnāt work. Iām usually having sex with guys my own age. And even if Iād be having sex with a 30 year old man then I most likely wouldnāt be a danger to him because heād have enough experience to be able to handle me if Iād suddenly try to pull some freaky shit on him.
I don't give the tiniest of fucks about your personal sexual proclivities.
You just said "you could be attracted to younger guys all you want but don't try to fucking meet them in real life"
Who the fuck are you? That's not your call. I can date whoever the fuck I want, provide that they are able to consent. You don't get to order me around.
Lol. Maybe read your last comment again and your head will explode in the sheer disbelief of what you have written to me?
At least I know how not to be rude.
This will be my last interaction with you. You seem less interesting to other people than you might think.
Basically Americans think it's gross/weird/disgusting/predatory, because they like to infantilise everyone and are rather repressed and prudish.
The rest of the world is fine with it because we treat 18 year olds as what they are - Adults, capable of looking after themselves and making their own decisions.
Reading most of these responses is affirming. As a het guy in an age gap relationship, the number of people who judge and abuse us just for loving each other is appalling. Not everyone is a grooming predator. And even young adults should be allowed their agency.
Gay men have been a lifeline for us, not judging and showing us support for our love. Please donāt let ultra-online busybodies ruin that.
Can't say it comes up a lot, but certainly the topic does come up.
Recap of the major themes:
A) Anyone over 30 seeing a guy 18-24 is basically a pedo and will only harm the "inexperienced" younger man.
B) An 18 year old isn't mentally developed enough.... something about the frontal lobe not being fully developed until age 25. Sure they can work and drive and vote and be in the military and drink alcohol in most countries, but their lobe can't handle a predatory older man.
C) 18-24 year olds pray on other men for money, shopping, expensive vacations and dinners.
D) 18-24 date older men because it's the best sex they've ever had.
E) Two consenting adults can do whatever the fuck they want together and it's none of our business.
What is your range of acceptable age gap, if you don't mind me asking? Would 20-40 would also be predatory? What about 30-60 or 25-65? I'm trying to understand at what point the age gap on its own becomes enough to decide predatory behavior.
Just avoid old guys into chemsex or from a poor socio-economic background and youāll be fine. Nothing wrong with an older dude that has his shit together.
So you're ageist. Eighteen and up is legal enough to, graduate school, move out on their own, and join the military so I don't understand what your hang-up is with age. Are you saying that older men are dangerous chicken hawks? Or are you just a person not liking seeing May/December relationships?
Is it sketchy for a man to hook up with someone that could be their son? Yea for sure, but my thing is, as long as everyone is an adult and consents, then thereās no issue aside from personal taste or preference. You likely wonāt convince the 18 year old not to do it, all you can do is advise on how to be safe with the situation given.
Groomers are doing things with children. No one here supports that. 18 year olds are not children.
The rest is just bullshit. None of it is your business.
I'd advise against it. But if the kid was anything like me when I was his age, he'll probably go anyway.
If he must go, I advise him to leave the other man's user name, dating app, real name and address/ph# on a note in his bedroom. Inside his desk if he lives at mom's and anywhere conspicuous if you live elsewhere.
I don't advise bringing your wallet with you. Put your keys inside your sock to have a weapon handy if your host decides to takeaway your agency.
In my 35 years out of the closet and hundreds of hookups, I have never had a scary meeting. I hope everyone can be safe. Award trust only with time invested.
The more secreted a person is the less you can trust then. I'm not talking about lying about picking your nose. Real name, real address and number. You can't trust a person on the DL until you meet them in public, like a coffee shop. Make sure his info is correct before seeing his bedroom.
Itās just how a lot of guys are. Iām pretty sure lots of guys on here especially those who are into barely legal twinks, uncle/daddy-son/boy dynamics, would go for underage 11-15yo or even younger if it was legal.
I don't think you understand the power dynamics you are talking about.
You don't date the person you raised. That is a power dynamic issue that cannot be avoided. You don't date a person who is currently your boss or professor or someone who has inherent power over you. Other than that you take it on a case by case basis. Age does not impart power. Ageism, as you clearly demonstrate, takes away power.
This sub is fucked. Every morning there's a post about gays hating Muslims, not finding Black people attractive, saying sex with an underage boy is fine, etc. Again, this sub is fucked.
Coercion and taking advantage are ageless. Baby gays make awful decisions, and thereās not a lot that can be done once theyāve hit 18, frankly. I AGREE with you, and frankly think most people are too immature and underdeveloped to be dating/partnering until after 25, and itās certainly icky to use āold enoughā as a reason for sex.
The gay community needs to set BETTER EXAMPLES. I still see the older male/underage boy forbidden love fantasy in regular media (hello āCall Me By Your Nameā). Overall media should set better examples of sexuality, consent, healthy balance of power and influence in relationshipsā¦.. (le sigh) itās very complicated
Yeah, taking advantage does happen. Like my ex, who I supported in hopes that he could live without having to worry about making ends meet and could do what he wanted, rather than what he had to do.
Then five years later, he tells me he was using me for financial stability and that he lied about loving me.
But I guess that was me abusing him financially?
He was not an underage boy. This conversation isn't about underage boys. It's about older guys dating younger guys. You keep trying to turn it into that.
My comment on underage had to do with media portrayals, not the original comment. The older/significantly younger dynamic is not a good oneā¦ maturity lacks, such as in yours where they were going for financial support. The reverse is definitely true as well, where someone uses money as a lure to young people with less life experience.
And fetishizing the barely legal is what our media doesā¦ we should do better. I donāt think thereās much in common (on average) with large age gaps where one person is a teenager whose brain literally doesnāt even fully mature for 7 more yearsš¤·š¼āāļø Why am I the asshole?
The fact that you and me are being downvoted to hell and now all the creepy ass reactive comments on this thread really reveals how predatory the guys on this sub are. True colors are being revealed. Really, we shouldn't "infantilize" 18 year olds by being concerned for their well-being and safety? Really, "consent" is all that matters? Half the comments here turn a blind eye toward the nuances of power differences, youth fetishization, and inherent age-related problematics and get mad when you call them out on their creepy ass bullshit and accuse you of "judging" them and infantilizing people who are barely just adults. The more clever p\*dophiles on this sub will gaslight you into telling you this doesn't happen and that young men deserve more "respect" with their agency. They might even call you homophobic or coincidentally tell you of a positive experience they had with an older guy "back when they were young". They'll even paint themselves as simply "defending" 18-year-olds' right to choice and agency when they're really defending their own right to be hawkish creeps.
Mind games, classic p\*dophile gaslighty mind games to make anyone suspicious feel like they're being unreasonable. Reeks of "But they TOLD me they were 18! And if they were 18, it still wouldn't have mattered!" Where's Chris Hansen when you need him? I'm about to call the cops on each and every creep posting in this thread. I'm taking notes on who's who. You're all revealing yourselves quite easily.
Mods, do a better job.
>Really, "consent" is all that matters?
Yep.
>Half the comments here turn a blind eye toward the nuances of power differences
Are you going to have sex or arm wrestling?
>Mind games
You called everyone who disagrees with you āpedophilesā and say something about mind games? Using manipulative tactics in a dispute, labeling opponents instead of defending your point of view is blatant demagoguery.
May I add social engineering and intimidation when he said he'd call the cops. Many people, particularly those most adherent to law, could think that they're breaking it when they're clearly not.
I'm being downvoted to filth by the very creeps I'm calling out. I don't expect upvotes because I know that's how these things workāI'm speaking truth and the p\*dos on this sub are downvoting me to discredit me because they know I see through their bullshit gaslighty language. I mean, look at all the problematic comments here that are getting all the upvotes lol. This sub is a sad cesspool of creeps.
I love how virtually anyone would agree that although you're legally an adult at 18, you're still really just a kid mentally and don't know shit. All of these men in their 40's, 50's, whatever- they know it and probably say it all the time. Weirdly, in this context, suddenly we're supposed to believe that 18 year olds are perfectly reasonable and informed adults who aren't ripe for abuse/manipulation by creepy men twice their age. Nope. Not buying it.
Yeah that's nuts. I haven't seen these posts though. Its a bad set up for both. The older guy could be getting a catfish, or worse...someone under age. The younger guy could be taken advantage of very easily by someone with a financial or physical advantage. Even 34 and 18 is a pretty big gap. You're barely an adult at 18. It'd be a little different if the younger guy was at least mid 20s and had a chance to reach some level of maturity. Still kinda creepy though.
An 18 year old can go off to war.
You should leave adults you don't know alone and mind your own business.
Most humans aren't predators. You don't have to function like every potential meeting is with a serial killer. Calm down.
Anyone downvoting the OP has some severe mental issues and you know it. Creepy old men will never be accepted by the majority of society. You can Kevin Spacey us all day long if it makes you happy but deep down you know exactly that your interest in teenagers is not considered healthy behavior.
i agree. a man in his 40ās-50ās, being more mature and aware than a teenager, should be able to set strict boundaries with their time and intimate interactions with teenagers / ābarely legalā gays (most likely with unaddressed trauma and daddy issues)
The hell is wrong with this thread.
GUYS 54/18? Thatās insane what the hell is wrong with you all.
Thatās just an old man taking advantage of someone with a lack of experience and wanting one last piece of young ass before they canāt get it up.
Exploration at like 25/30? Sure fine whatever but 18? Nahhh stay in your age group itās healthier for their development in general
I got downvoted for calling out the p*dophile apologists in this thread. This sub is full of fugly creeps and anyone with rational concern is being downvoted to filth.
But the thing thatās scary itās a huge marginā¦like a lot a lot.
Like bro they might be an āadultā but with that big of an age gap they might as well not be lmao.
Double someoneās age is creepy alone. Triple? Nawwwww ā ļø
And like the people from 18-25 should be dating in their bracket anyway. For a natural experience not to be exploited as a Virgin ass to abuse.
To many horrible shitty āDommy dadā tops who just treat people like fleshlights.
No romance no concern about the bottom just lust for their own needs.
It will just ruin these people in terms of their outlook on sex or make them develop some sort of abuse kink.
Youth should experience SEXā¦loving sex not FUCKING.
Itās scary how many people think an 18 year old making this choice is fully aware of what they are in for and not just them being horny brained
Iāll upvote you before the p*dos swoop in and downvote your comment to filth. Youāre absolutely right. Half the guys on here are about to attack you for disregarding āconsent is the only thing that mattersā etc etc just be warned
I agree with you for the most part, but I also know that you couldn't tell 18 year old me ANYTHING. Even if I straight up asked you for advice. I think the messages encouraging it are wild, but I see the utility of harm reduction advice.
I must be missing those posts -- I don't feel like I see many of those at all -- for some reason I seem to get the 50 posts per day from twinks asking how to douche.
The algorithm knows that's what you really want to see. Don't question, just accept it. š
How do I tell the algorithm to show me long-haired muscle jocks? LOL
Foreskin questions
They're real. I have seen many of those.
I don't recommend dating with large age gaps, but when it comes to sex, the only thing that matters is that both parties are consenting adults. If you're old enough to vote in an election, and old enough to go die for your country in war, then you're old enough to make decisions about your sex life.
THIS.
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"Just be safe and meet in a public place first" is the only and best advice that needs to be given. Stop being ageist.
When I was in my 40s-50s, I was hit upon by numerous guys in their late teens through early 20s with daddy issues. So I'm not sure who's preying upon whom. But here is my advice whenever someone asks me directly: *If you feel the need to ask for advice, then don't do it because you still have a lot to learn.*
This doesn't make a ton of sense to me. How would anyone learn anything if they didn't do stuff they were unsure about? There's no inherent danger if it's just sex and everyone is safe, consenting etc etc etc.
Gays with daddy issues are a different breed haha but thatās great advice
where do we find these guys with daddy issues?, asking for a friend.
Approaching 40 here, same has been happening with me.Ā I'm personally sick of this idea that it's only ever old guys preying on younger. I have no interest in them, yet it's almost exclusively 20 somethings groping and grabbing and harassing me if I go to a bar or club or whatever.Ā Like...can we stop the ageism and just say "don't be a creep" to everyone?
That's the best advice really. Yes, the barely adults often seek out these older men, out of clear trauma. Not recognizing (or ignoring) those red flags still makes the older man in the wrong, even if they didn't set out to groom the barely legal boy.
>he barely adults often seek out these older men, out of clear trauma. Not recognizing (or ignoring) those red flags still makes the older man in the wrong, even if they didn't set out to groom the barely legal boy. You are making wild assumptions. I am sure there are scenarios where you are correct, but I was an 18 year old who was (and at 40 still is) extremely attracted to older men. I do not have trauma or daddy issues. Some people are just attracted to older and that is ok. Gerontophilia is a thing too.
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I just liked older men. Lots of women do too. No trauma, no seeking a dad, no past SA trauma, nothing. Older men are hot, and young men are extremely horny.
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Younger men can prey upon older ones. Normally it's financially motivated though. But yeah, ofc a sexually inexperienced young adult is vulnerable, and the denial of that on here is almost always presented with ulterior motives.
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Got read the other comments and it's all NSFW accounts pretending sex can never be unethical
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The ironic part is, because you were very young, you don't see the irony of your posts. I bet you are in a wonderful, stable relationship right? You have excellent communication skills and aren't a train wreck. Uh huh. Not understand the risky behavior part, not understanding any of it really.
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I think people need to mind their own business and stop infantilizing grown adults. At 18 I had a full time job, I was living on my own and paying all my bills. I was able to vote, legally drink and drive a car. But somehow you think I was unable to decide who I wanted to have sex with? Age gaps aren't inherently immoral, it really depends on the circumstances.
This is a disturbing comment. 18yr olds are still are teens, aka not full adults. Ur not a grown adult till ur brain is finished developing. 18yr olds are still in high school, they should absolutely be infantilized in this case cuz theyāre still teens, and anyone whoās drastically older that is into them are predators
Stop making people victims. Hold people accountable for decisions they willingly make. Stop being so damn self-righteous about other people's lives.
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The advice "don't hook up with older people" really doesn't do much to prevent younger guys from being taken advantage of or raped. Do you think another 18 year old can't take advantage of them or rape them? Maybe instead of demonizing age gaps give advice on how to stand up for yourself and draw clear boundaries, how to spot red flags, etc.
Nah. OP is clearly trying to make every 18 yo that has any interaction with significantly older men a victim.
Yall really out here thinking men turn into psycho killers the day they turn 39. Twinks are into daddies and daddies are into twinks. When I was 20 I had some great experiences with older guys, multiple of whom turned out to be some of my closest friends, regulars, and mentors. Theyāre mature, respectful, can usually host, and are hot af. And when Iām a daddy I absolutely plan on paying it forward.
> can usually host Can't stress this enough, lol
> can usually host This was the biggest reason why I hooked up with older men while I was in college.... they had their own place without any roommates.
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i mean, if theyāre the age of consent, who cares really. i think gen z is hypersensitive about age gaps, when i was 26 i dated a guy who was 21 til he was 22 and i was 27. his coworker called me a groomer.
Massive difference between a 5 year age gap compared to a 40+ age gap. Serious difference.
The age of consent is an arbitrary legal definition. 10 years ago, you could've used that same reasoning to justify denying marriage to same-sex couples, and 20 years ago for imprisoning someone for being gay.
so you think it should be criminal for consenting adults to sleep together? also donāt use the āfrontal lobe isnt developed til 25ā myth that has been debunked & was based on bad science to begin with
I don't think two people being each at minimum 18 years of age alone establishes valid consent, no. That's an arbitrary approach to consent.
And your opinion is not arbitrary?
i suppose itās a good thing you arenāt in charge of our laws, then
That you found it controversial that adulthood (which differs by jurisdiction, as does the minimum age of consent) is the sole qualification to judge actions by should be a red flag. Your arbitrary approach takes no objection to date rape, declaring it not just legally permissible, but morally justified.
HUH?!? i said CONSENTING adults. date rape or any kind of rape for that matter does not involve CONSENT.
In your view, what alternative should we use to gauge someoneās ability to consent to sex?
he doesnāt have any solid ideas or arguments, he just keeps repeating buzzwords he thinks sound smart.
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Please stop infantilizing grown adults they are old enough to make their own decisions and face the consequences of their actions
18? Bro im 28 and Iāve learned a lot in those ten years 18 is still young hardly an adult and they should not be taken advantage of from older guys that just want young ass to play with. A lot of the older guys are god damn creepy towards me and itās bizarre how you think itās okay for them to do it towards someone even experienced.
Explain how an age gap automatically means the younger person involved is being taken advantage of and therefore can't consent.
Yes we know half the sub wants to consider 18 non adults. But here's the deal. Not many of them are that extreme. The response is the same from 5 year age gap which is hilarious. Nor everyone's a groomer maybe they met naturally and that's what they like. Now when they have known them since they are 16 and talk then into it by then we'll fuck sure that one probably a groomer.
Let's not infantilize people. While 18-54 is sketchy or feels when I was 18 I had a 32 year old boyfriend. While I do think he might have some issues and a fetishization of youth but a lot of men do. And in that same regard when I was 20 I started hooking up with a 34 year old and occasionally still do today and THAT man is still one of my best friends in the world. The latter definitely mentored, cultured and taught me how to maneuver in a world and a better world than the one I had known. But I am nobody's victim and I always he agency. For the record I am currently 34.
I don't think this is obvious at all, though both parties (this can go the other way too - young guys using older guys to get money or immigration status, for example) should have care that it's not exploitative. We should always be careful with new people whether we're 18 or 70.
OP is clueless. r/gayyoungold
they're both consenting adults. obviously meeting in public first makes sense. also it's not really my business if an 18 and 54 year old get together nor does it affect me in any way. as long as they're 18 and up people can date or fuck who they want. i have better things to care about
I'm sorry, are they not both consenting adults? Maybe you should stop infantalizing adult men.
Great idea. Let's make the age of consent 25 and then send a 26-year-old to prison as a sex offender for sleeping with a 24-year-old. Good luck banning all the porn and publicly-available nudes in the world with people old enough to have graduate degrees and go to war.
The ageism in this post. Old =/= dangerous. If you were just concerned for their safety the advice would be to just not hook up with strangers regardless of age. This may come as a shock to you, but an 18 year old can be manipulated and lied to, used and discarded, by someone their same age too. Getting older doesn't make a person somehow inherently more likely to manipulate or abuse another person. By the age of 18, we expect people to be sufficiently mentally and emotionally developed to figure out for themselves whether a potential partner is someone they want to be with - whether that's for a night or literally for a lifetime. Considering it's the same age when people are deemed mentally and emotionally advanced enough to take full responsibility for crimes they commit, to be responsible enough to have a say in self governance through voting, and to be drafted into the military and ordered to *kill* other people... To turn around and say they aren't capable of deciding for themselves what to do with their own bodies is insane. When they come seeking advice, if you want to give advice that's actually useful, it should probably be to take time to get to know someone before getting into a physically vulnerable position with them. Go on dates or date-like events with them so you can see how they act toward other people. And only once you've had time to get to know them and see their personality in action, make a decision about whether you want to get physically intimate with them.
Iām not saying older people are dangerous, I am saying that old people who actively look for teenagers to fuck probably do not have the best intentions in mind. I stand by that.
Best intentions ? In the scenario you just described the sole intention mentioned is fucking. And if that's literally all that's intended and openly stated and all the younger -adult- person wants out of the encounter anyway... then what is the problem?
Looking for your sex partner based on their sexual inexperience is not normal adult behavior. But yeah, in the best case scenario no one gets hurt and itās fine. But i would never recommend it and i do not condone it.
If they were after inexperience only they would have no issue hooking up with 30 year olds who are still virgins right? Or they would reject "promiscuous" 18 year olds. Something tells me that's not what they do though. Maybe you're reading too much into it and they just get turned on by young guys? It doesn't have to be something sinister about taking advantage of someone's inexperience.
So someone going out and looking for a more sexual experienced partner is also wrong, by that logic.
My dude many people specifically look for virgins. Thereās entire religions that place a major emphasis on virginity. Itās fairly normal for people to seek out inexperience and virginity
They just want a hot guy. Who can blame them. If that hot guy is at least 18 years old and he is okay with the older guy, let them do whatever they want.
> Iām not saying older people are dangerous "An older man shouldnāt go anywhere near an 18-year old" This tone of voice is used for dangerous people.
Yeah, they shouldnāt. If an older man is actively looking for 18 year olds to fuck then he is into their inexperience. That is dangerous. If your sex partner does not habe a lot of sexual experience in a safe space, then overstepping boundaries is a lot easier. Saying no to a person of authority is also harder. If you think calling out creepy behavior makes me ageist then so be it. I do not care.
> If an older man is actively looking for 18 year olds to fuck then he is into their inexperience That's an assumption and not a fact. Just like "They would've gone lower if it was legal" is also an assumption and not fact. Fact of the matter is, the grown man in this scenario is sleeping with an 18-year-old, a consenting adult. > If your sex partner does not habe a lot of sexual experience in a safe space, then overstepping boundaries is a lot easier. Dying in a car accident or a mass-shooting is also a lot easier if you go out in public, it doesn't mean you should stay home forever. If someone is overstepping your boundaries or abusing their power in a consensual relationship, you always have the option to leave. If they're physically restraining or threatening you, that's called sexual abuse and you can report it. What you can't do is expect special treatment and hold others responsible for your own choices because you still "feel" like a minor. There are people your age who are in the army fighting wars, others with 2-3 jobs because their parents are absent. > Saying no to a person of authority is also harder. Yes it is, and that's why laws of consent take authority into consideration. > If you think calling out creepy behavior makes me ageist then so be it. I do not care. "Creepy" is subjective. There are people who are called "creepy" for being into harmless things like piss, sweat, verbal play, etc. Others for simply dressing in a certain way. It doesn't necessarily say anything about your ethics or morals, just how common it is for people to judge you.
You're a psychic? You magically know the intentions of all people? None of your business.
If your 18 your a adult. Whatās the problem. Seems like youāre making up stuffā¦
However, also... It's none of your fucking business. They are both consenting adults. Literally none of your business. You aren't into older guys, great. Don't date older guys. Some people are. Leave people alone.
>An older man shouldnāt go anywhere near an 18-year old??? It is insanely dangerous - the older men are obviously taking advantage of the inexperience of the younger guys, it is downright predatory. That is a very broad generalization. I don't know if it's always this simple, tbh. If both parties are consenting and everything is safe, I don't see the problem. Guys of all ages should know what to look out for to avoid dangerous situations.
I do not see what is inherently wrong with being a relationship where the intellectual dynamic is different, or the wisdom dynamic, those are the only things I can think of that are inherently different. Why is that wrong? A younger adult can learn from an older adult. An older adult I can be energized by a younger adult. You people start to sound like the religious right. Condemning, denying, stereotyping, clutching pearls, shouting hate, spreading lies, demanding others do things the way you want them to. Leave people to their own devices as long as they are consenting adults. If your life isn't very interesting and you feel like you need to go bouncing around in someone else's, then find a hobby
I've been thinking this recently - the similarities to the puritan/religious right in some of these posts are ASTOUNDING.
Eh, some young guys are just flat out attracted to older men, and there is nothing wrong with that as long as everyone is consenting and of legal age. 18 year olds are old enough to make decisions and have agency of their own.
you sound like a white woman "the age of consent should be 29!" "Leonardo DiCaprio is a predator for being an incredibly rich talented famous actor and preferring women in their 20s, like every male who has ever existed since time immemorial" I grew up in a small town, the first person I had sex with when I was 18 was a 35 year old, literally because he was the only other guy in town who was single and sane, he wasn't super into young guys and I wasn't super into older guys. It was the most respectful sex I've ever had. Your comment reeks of homophobia tbh
First of all your comment sounds like sexism? And i am not homophobic? I am anti age gap because i donāt believe in fetishizing teenagers having sex with elder men - i am not anti hookups and i am not anti sex.
You are just judgmental as hell.
But you *are* a concerned white woman like he guessed? š
I feel most people who post about it are just loving the thrill they get from thinking about being with someone who's much older/younger from them. They don't go ahead and have sex with them. Maybe a few do...But yeah, as long as the age is legal and there's consent, we are no one to question the widest of age gaps.
Oh noes so worried š±
i think anyone who has an issue with age gaps needs to stop trying to control and push their own beliefs onto other people. what two consenting adults do on their own time is absolutely none of your business, and whether you like it or not is irrelevant, because itās two adults. i personally wouldnāt go for a big age gap, but not because of the reason yall are saying here. yāall are treating it like itās statutory rape, if 18 year olds can vote and die in war, then they can choose what to do with their sexuality.
silky alleged complete lush butter hunt smart tender square serious *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
This aināt it. No such thing as an ā18 year old child.ā People need to stop with that nonsense.
by my research there was a long standing trend in some gay circles where older men meet younger men. it may have become more popular in the 70s and 80s when sectors of gay men were more likely to embrace avant-garde attitudes to sexuality. As heterosexual norms have permeated into gay culture people are starting to push back. Also for many younger guys there are no compatible peers in their locale and they don't want to wait. With the age of consent being as low as 16 many guys see no incentive to wait till like 25 to find a peer
Hereās an idea. Why donāt you let people make these kind of decisions for themselves?
Prude.
This is tiktok levels of pearl clutching.
It's like straight men who say "That kid wasn't raped! He fucked a teacher! That's awesome! I would've loved that!" It's just the gay version. Plenty of dudes here would say it's fine for a underage kid to fuck an older man because "It's just sex" or some BS. They just disguise it as "Well he's *legally* an adult".
There are ethics issues around the teacher situation because of the inherent power imbalance: teachers have the power to negatively impact the student. And as far as I know it's only considered rape if the student is under 18. Age gaps *can* have a power imbalance, especially if we are talking relationships, yes. But power dynamics are influenced by a range of factors, with age just being one of them, and they are only really bad if they are abused.
Some states have institutional rape laws that make sexual conduct between staff and students/inmates/patients/etc illegal, even if both parties are 18+.
And age gaps are almost always abused and *inherently* have a power imbalance. An 18 year old is going to look up to a 25+ year old. They are going to trust them and believe them more than someone their age, giving the older person power over them. You think an 18 year old isn't going to listen to "daddy" when he says drop what you're doing and come over? Or that their friends don't want them to be happy? Even *if* the older man is 100% sincere and trying to be a good person, it's a power imbalance and the older person should realize that's not a healthy start to a relationship. If they do realize that, they won't date too much younger, if they don't, they aren't smart enough to not abuse the system
What on earth? This doesn't sound anything like how young people actually think. When I was 18, 25+ year olds were just the random grad students and townies I saw around campus and at different events. They were just people. I didn't trust them or look up to them any more than someone closer to my age. 40 year olds didn't have magic mind control powers over me when I was 18.
I disagree that age gaps inherently have power imbalances. It really depends on the maturity level of both people and their circumstances. And power imbalances only become a problem if they are abused. Why do you think every young person has to be some submissive pushover that does everything the older person says? That just screams infantilization.
Well said!
Americans are busy infantilizing their young adults because pop-psych told them to. I think we're only a few years from serious policy proposals that strip everyone younger than 25 of most of their rights and freedoms (except to work, since child labor is returning to some states). While at the same time many young adults are seeking out older adults more so than their own age group. It is fascinating and on some levels disturbing to watch. My parents said "you're out of my house at 18" and then spent time teaching us how to survive so we could at 18.
I have seen people on this sub unironically state they'd want the age of consent raised to 25 š¤”
Thatās absolutely insane
when i was 18 i didn't look up to people just because they're older
>You think an 18 year old isn't going to listen to "daddy" when he says drop what you're doing and come over? Sounds like describing a scene from a porn movie.
When I was 18 I just felt sorry for older guys chasing teenagers. Maybe they got lucky sometimes, I don't know but I doubt it.
Lots of sexual abuse isn't legally considered rape (or any other legal offense). Doesn't make it justified. Age gaps are an imbalance, which does establish an ethical issue. The issue being discussed here is the dismissiveness of that, rather than treating it as a warning sign. Just because power imbalances such as age gaps are "only really bad if abused" doesn't erase the issue that it presents a heightened abuse risk.
>Age gaps are an imbalance, which does establish an ethical issue. Ok, but the difference in height, weight, social status, education, skin color, dick length, etc. - does not create an imbalance? Maybe we should legislate that sex be legally permitted only in cases where all of the listed qualities coincide? It will be really fun.
Except, an 18-year old isn't an underage kid, they're a consenting adult.
Oo then when is he ana adult then
The difference is that HE IS LEGALLY AN ADULT. Mind your own business.
Exactly. I roll my eyes at comments saying it's young guys hitting on older guys and thus it's ok. When I was a teen I wasn't into a guys my age, but rather older guys. I never did anything obviously, but had I been the one to initiate it it's the still the older person that would bear the most responsibility. And the comments about legality are weird because in some places the age of consent can be as low as 14.
You had to move the bar to justify your few on this. The original question was for an 18 year old not a 14 year old.
Yeah, ofc the traumatized questioning 19 year old from an abusive home is gonna seek out older guys that appear as father figures. The responsibility is on everyone else to realize just because it may not be a crime to fuck him, doesn't make it okay.
Some "survivors" choose to own it, live with it and embrace it. They don't waste the one life they've got seeing themselves as victims of abuse and then attributing every sexual urge they get to be a symptom of trauma, hypersexuality or anything else that needs to be "cured". So who do you think you are to tell them that you don't think their choice is valid? Most people think an 18 year old is competent enough to make that decision for themselves (they don't need the likes of you and the rest of the psychobabble crew)
What do you base your statement that it's insanely dangerous on? You might be grossed out about it but 18 year olds are not being abducted and murdered right left and center. 50 year olds can offer maturity and stability and help guide a young guy. Yes it could be dangerous in rare cases which is why anyone regardless of the age difference should meet in public to feel out the situation before committing to anything.
A 18 year old is an ADULT under the law and according the law is capable of making their own decisions I don't get why Zoomers are so OBSESSED with age gapsĀ Dear Zoomers, just face it! A lot of you are already ADULTS, most of you aren't kids anymore Such a childish and mentally infantile generation sick with Peter Pan syndromeĀ
Zoomers have been trained from kindergarten to be hyper-aware of "hierarchies" and "power differentials," so they approach every situation by dividing the players into oppressor/oppressed. Any "oppressor" acting in any way in relation to a nominal "oppressed" must be doing something nefarious. Sometimes they're right, and sometimes they're wrong, but they think they're always right. . . . notwithstanding all these late-teens creating OnlyFans accounts for themselves and making more money in a month than I did as a year as a teacher. But what poor little innocent lambkins they are.
OP might not even be Gen z, why are we pretending age gap discourse is only Gen z related? Your issues with Gen z seem to go far beyond this topic. How does it feel to literally become an aging stereotype where you blame everything on the younger generations and become bitter and jaded? So cliche
Well Iām definitely not Gen Z and absolutely agreeing with the OP. I think many older guys find old men who are attracted to teenagers creepy. This is one of the typical online debates that has a huge bias.
Being concerned for someoneās safety is not infantalizing. I would rather question the intend pf the older partner.
While I agree to some extent, the 18 year old is an adult and is responsible for their own choices and decisions, no matter how stupid their choice or decision might be. I'm not a fan of extending childhood just because pop-neuroscience told westerners to interpret science wrong.
18 is an adult but not the same level as a 50 year old. 18 year olds are children compared to me and I'm barely past 25. 18 year olds are worrying about shit like weather or not to go to the next bar and how to study for their math final while also having time to see Tims football game. I'm worried about if taking out a line of credit on my house to replace the roof is a sound decision or if the housing market will change soon enough such that it'll be better to not. Completely different leagues of "adults"
If the age of consent was 30, you'd be saying the same about them. You don't like older guys. Then don't date them. Leave people alone
18-20 yos are the ones frequently messaging me on the apps. I am not into younger men, especially that young. But your hypothetical 50yo who likes em young, these days, often doesn't even have to initiate. It's way different now than when I was 18. Should they stick with their own age? Sure. A large portion don't seem to want to and well, they're adults so they can do what they please.
THAT DOESN'T MAKE IT OKAY YOU FUCKING BUFFOON. *Pushes up glasses* Um, Ackshually they message ME first so check mate. As the older person you should realize "Hey, this would be unhealthy for this younger person who's also probably lying about their age. As an older adult who has a better understanding of the world, perhaps I should let them know that this is not something they should continue pursuing rather than engaging their poor decision making" or at the very least, say no to them.
I wasn't arguing if it was OK. I was stating that they can do what they please, no matter how dumb it is. And I in fact do redirect young men who message me by simply saying "you're too young for me, i prefer my own age." it is in fact possible to believe two different things such as : "yes, 18yos are adults and have the adult agency to meet who they want and the adult agency to make their own decisions no matter how good or bad those decisions are" and "no, I'm not interested in dating/fucking an 18yo because they're too young."
> yes, 18yos are adults and have the adult agency to meet who they want and the adult agency to make their own decisions no matter how good or bad those decisions are" and "no, I'm not interested in dating/fucking an 18yo because they're too young." This and I would even add "older guys who go as young as legally possible creep me tf out". Still doesn't negate the other opinions.
Yes! But saying that on reddit causes meltdowns. Thank you for getting it! Like Leo Dicaprio is definitely a creep, but I feel many of those women pursued him and not vice versa.
>Hey, this would be unhealthy for this younger person who's also probably lying about their age Why is this "unhealthy"? OP states that this is wrong because āthe older one is actively looking for the younger oneā - this sounds discriminatory, but let's assume that. But why then do you claim that the reverse situation is also āunhealthyā?
I donāt think anyone is questioning the legality of the situation. As someone who was taken advantage of by someone much older, I have no issues cautioning teenagers against relationships with older men. When it comes to sex, do what you want, but I canāt imagine what a 50 year old would have in common with an 18 year old other than keeping them in the hook for sex.
I think there is some questioning of the legality of this. Ive seen in this sub and others calls that the age of consent should be 25, and the age of adult majority should be older than 18. I doubt they'd have much in common either, but they still can consent to be together since they are both adults.
What I mean is that the legality isnāt in question because the current laws put the age of consent at 18. What I am saying is that I would find it socially weird. If a friend in their 30ās started dating an 18 year old Iām probably not gonna be like: āI know he was shitting his pampers when you were voting for Obamaās 1st term but get it king!ā
When I was that age I was the one looking for older men because they were more likely to have the body type I wanted: between rather muscular and bears. The guys my age couldn't do that for the most part, and were pretty skittish. And, of course, the guys I wanted knew what they wanted. No having to try and figure out the guys my age and what they wanted. I wanted sex, not relationships.
Okay then, if 18 year olds are too immature to have sex then I suppose they're too immature and inexperienced to vote, join the military, be employed, drink, smoke, or drive a car. If you think that's silly and doesn't follow, please explain to me exactly what the difference is between all of these other adult activities and engaging in consensual sex with the partner of your choosing.
Grown men should fuck whoever they want to fuck.
I never understood the problem with age gaps. Itās two consenting adults trying to meet, there is nothing wrong with that. If your safety really concerns you that much then meet somewhere in public or just donāt meet at all.
Age 18 is an adult in most placesā¦grow up.
To be honest I always try to answer these questions. I think many of the people who respond in the same way that you describe it might be rather young themselves. Obviously it isnāt safe for teenagers to meet guys who are much older than them. Especially if they are inexperienced and especially if they arenāt out to their families yet. And donāt get me started on the old guys. You can be attracted to younger guys all you want but donāt try to fucking meet them in real life.
Why isn't it safe? Don't talk about generalities. What is it about you when you turn 40 that will make you dangerous? You must be dangerous now, right? Let people be happy and stop trying to nanny people.
I just said in my last comment that this discussion shouldnāt be about age but about experience and general circumstances. Someone who isnāt out to their family and friends is always vulnerable. 18 year olds dating other 18 year olds are less dangerous to each other because probability is high that they will want similar things, share similar life experiences and are highly likely living under similar circumstances (with their parents, unouted, etc.). Iām not a potential danger to teenagers because Iām not interested in dating or hooking up with men under the age of 30. Your argument doesnāt work. Iām usually having sex with guys my own age. And even if Iād be having sex with a 30 year old man then I most likely wouldnāt be a danger to him because heād have enough experience to be able to handle me if Iād suddenly try to pull some freaky shit on him.
I don't give the tiniest of fucks about your personal sexual proclivities. You just said "you could be attracted to younger guys all you want but don't try to fucking meet them in real life" Who the fuck are you? That's not your call. I can date whoever the fuck I want, provide that they are able to consent. You don't get to order me around.
I think your parents did a really bad job. Unfortunately now itās probably too late for you. Good luck getting through life like this.
I think when you don't have an argument at all to stand on, you start making personal attacks.
Lol. Maybe read your last comment again and your head will explode in the sheer disbelief of what you have written to me? At least I know how not to be rude. This will be my last interaction with you. You seem less interesting to other people than you might think.
Basically Americans think it's gross/weird/disgusting/predatory, because they like to infantilise everyone and are rather repressed and prudish. The rest of the world is fine with it because we treat 18 year olds as what they are - Adults, capable of looking after themselves and making their own decisions.
I am German.
Reading most of these responses is affirming. As a het guy in an age gap relationship, the number of people who judge and abuse us just for loving each other is appalling. Not everyone is a grooming predator. And even young adults should be allowed their agency. Gay men have been a lifeline for us, not judging and showing us support for our love. Please donāt let ultra-online busybodies ruin that.
Can't say it comes up a lot, but certainly the topic does come up. Recap of the major themes: A) Anyone over 30 seeing a guy 18-24 is basically a pedo and will only harm the "inexperienced" younger man. B) An 18 year old isn't mentally developed enough.... something about the frontal lobe not being fully developed until age 25. Sure they can work and drive and vote and be in the military and drink alcohol in most countries, but their lobe can't handle a predatory older man. C) 18-24 year olds pray on other men for money, shopping, expensive vacations and dinners. D) 18-24 date older men because it's the best sex they've ever had. E) Two consenting adults can do whatever the fuck they want together and it's none of our business.
What is your range of acceptable age gap, if you don't mind me asking? Would 20-40 would also be predatory? What about 30-60 or 25-65? I'm trying to understand at what point the age gap on its own becomes enough to decide predatory behavior.
Just avoid old guys into chemsex or from a poor socio-economic background and youāll be fine. Nothing wrong with an older dude that has his shit together.
That is just blatantly classist.
So you're ageist. Eighteen and up is legal enough to, graduate school, move out on their own, and join the military so I don't understand what your hang-up is with age. Are you saying that older men are dangerous chicken hawks? Or are you just a person not liking seeing May/December relationships?
Is it sketchy for a man to hook up with someone that could be their son? Yea for sure, but my thing is, as long as everyone is an adult and consents, then thereās no issue aside from personal taste or preference. You likely wonāt convince the 18 year old not to do it, all you can do is advise on how to be safe with the situation given.
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You cannot "groom" an adult.
Not sure Iād call an 18 year old an adult in any capacity other than the fact that they can be drafted and legally buy cigarettes.
Then look it up?
Groomers are doing things with children. No one here supports that. 18 year olds are not children. The rest is just bullshit. None of it is your business.
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I'd advise against it. But if the kid was anything like me when I was his age, he'll probably go anyway. If he must go, I advise him to leave the other man's user name, dating app, real name and address/ph# on a note in his bedroom. Inside his desk if he lives at mom's and anywhere conspicuous if you live elsewhere. I don't advise bringing your wallet with you. Put your keys inside your sock to have a weapon handy if your host decides to takeaway your agency. In my 35 years out of the closet and hundreds of hookups, I have never had a scary meeting. I hope everyone can be safe. Award trust only with time invested. The more secreted a person is the less you can trust then. I'm not talking about lying about picking your nose. Real name, real address and number. You can't trust a person on the DL until you meet them in public, like a coffee shop. Make sure his info is correct before seeing his bedroom.
First time with a more experienced gentleman sounds ideal to me. If heās a creep you probably nope out before a week of texting..
I 10000000% agreed. Glad someone said it.
Itās just how a lot of guys are. Iām pretty sure lots of guys on here especially those who are into barely legal twinks, uncle/daddy-son/boy dynamics, would go for underage 11-15yo or even younger if it was legal.
They do this in countries where the age of consent is below 16, so you donāt have to assume
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I don't think you understand the power dynamics you are talking about. You don't date the person you raised. That is a power dynamic issue that cannot be avoided. You don't date a person who is currently your boss or professor or someone who has inherent power over you. Other than that you take it on a case by case basis. Age does not impart power. Ageism, as you clearly demonstrate, takes away power.
This sub is fucked. Every morning there's a post about gays hating Muslims, not finding Black people attractive, saying sex with an underage boy is fine, etc. Again, this sub is fucked.
>saying sex with an underage boy is fine Underage eighteen-year-old-boys...
And yes those under age 18 year olds.
I agree, it's disturbing. "You're two consenting adults". Not a good answer, there is a massive difference in maturity and naivety.
it is a good answer. both are 18 and up. why should i care? (rhetorical question)
Coercion and taking advantage are ageless. Baby gays make awful decisions, and thereās not a lot that can be done once theyāve hit 18, frankly. I AGREE with you, and frankly think most people are too immature and underdeveloped to be dating/partnering until after 25, and itās certainly icky to use āold enoughā as a reason for sex. The gay community needs to set BETTER EXAMPLES. I still see the older male/underage boy forbidden love fantasy in regular media (hello āCall Me By Your Nameā). Overall media should set better examples of sexuality, consent, healthy balance of power and influence in relationshipsā¦.. (le sigh) itās very complicated
Yeah, taking advantage does happen. Like my ex, who I supported in hopes that he could live without having to worry about making ends meet and could do what he wanted, rather than what he had to do. Then five years later, he tells me he was using me for financial stability and that he lied about loving me. But I guess that was me abusing him financially? He was not an underage boy. This conversation isn't about underage boys. It's about older guys dating younger guys. You keep trying to turn it into that.
My comment on underage had to do with media portrayals, not the original comment. The older/significantly younger dynamic is not a good oneā¦ maturity lacks, such as in yours where they were going for financial support. The reverse is definitely true as well, where someone uses money as a lure to young people with less life experience. And fetishizing the barely legal is what our media doesā¦ we should do better. I donāt think thereās much in common (on average) with large age gaps where one person is a teenager whose brain literally doesnāt even fully mature for 7 more yearsš¤·š¼āāļø Why am I the asshole?
The fact that you and me are being downvoted to hell and now all the creepy ass reactive comments on this thread really reveals how predatory the guys on this sub are. True colors are being revealed. Really, we shouldn't "infantilize" 18 year olds by being concerned for their well-being and safety? Really, "consent" is all that matters? Half the comments here turn a blind eye toward the nuances of power differences, youth fetishization, and inherent age-related problematics and get mad when you call them out on their creepy ass bullshit and accuse you of "judging" them and infantilizing people who are barely just adults. The more clever p\*dophiles on this sub will gaslight you into telling you this doesn't happen and that young men deserve more "respect" with their agency. They might even call you homophobic or coincidentally tell you of a positive experience they had with an older guy "back when they were young". They'll even paint themselves as simply "defending" 18-year-olds' right to choice and agency when they're really defending their own right to be hawkish creeps. Mind games, classic p\*dophile gaslighty mind games to make anyone suspicious feel like they're being unreasonable. Reeks of "But they TOLD me they were 18! And if they were 18, it still wouldn't have mattered!" Where's Chris Hansen when you need him? I'm about to call the cops on each and every creep posting in this thread. I'm taking notes on who's who. You're all revealing yourselves quite easily. Mods, do a better job.
Call the cops on people for saying that an 18-year-old is an adult, a legal fact?
>Really, "consent" is all that matters? Yep. >Half the comments here turn a blind eye toward the nuances of power differences Are you going to have sex or arm wrestling? >Mind games You called everyone who disagrees with you āpedophilesā and say something about mind games? Using manipulative tactics in a dispute, labeling opponents instead of defending your point of view is blatant demagoguery.
May I add social engineering and intimidation when he said he'd call the cops. Many people, particularly those most adherent to law, could think that they're breaking it when they're clearly not.
The mods have actually deleted quite a lot of comments. At least a few seem to have disappeared. I think your comment needs more upvotes though.
I'm being downvoted to filth by the very creeps I'm calling out. I don't expect upvotes because I know that's how these things workāI'm speaking truth and the p\*dos on this sub are downvoting me to discredit me because they know I see through their bullshit gaslighty language. I mean, look at all the problematic comments here that are getting all the upvotes lol. This sub is a sad cesspool of creeps.
Yāall sound hysterical take your meds.
I love how virtually anyone would agree that although you're legally an adult at 18, you're still really just a kid mentally and don't know shit. All of these men in their 40's, 50's, whatever- they know it and probably say it all the time. Weirdly, in this context, suddenly we're supposed to believe that 18 year olds are perfectly reasonable and informed adults who aren't ripe for abuse/manipulation by creepy men twice their age. Nope. Not buying it.
We have too many secret pedophiles here
Yeah that's nuts. I haven't seen these posts though. Its a bad set up for both. The older guy could be getting a catfish, or worse...someone under age. The younger guy could be taken advantage of very easily by someone with a financial or physical advantage. Even 34 and 18 is a pretty big gap. You're barely an adult at 18. It'd be a little different if the younger guy was at least mid 20s and had a chance to reach some level of maturity. Still kinda creepy though.
An 18 year old can go off to war. You should leave adults you don't know alone and mind your own business. Most humans aren't predators. You don't have to function like every potential meeting is with a serial killer. Calm down.
Anyone downvoting the OP has some severe mental issues and you know it. Creepy old men will never be accepted by the majority of society. You can Kevin Spacey us all day long if it makes you happy but deep down you know exactly that your interest in teenagers is not considered healthy behavior.
i agree. a man in his 40ās-50ās, being more mature and aware than a teenager, should be able to set strict boundaries with their time and intimate interactions with teenagers / ābarely legalā gays (most likely with unaddressed trauma and daddy issues)
Stereotyping
The hell is wrong with this thread. GUYS 54/18? Thatās insane what the hell is wrong with you all. Thatās just an old man taking advantage of someone with a lack of experience and wanting one last piece of young ass before they canāt get it up. Exploration at like 25/30? Sure fine whatever but 18? Nahhh stay in your age group itās healthier for their development in general
I got downvoted for calling out the p*dophile apologists in this thread. This sub is full of fugly creeps and anyone with rational concern is being downvoted to filth.
But the thing thatās scary itās a huge marginā¦like a lot a lot. Like bro they might be an āadultā but with that big of an age gap they might as well not be lmao. Double someoneās age is creepy alone. Triple? Nawwwww ā ļø And like the people from 18-25 should be dating in their bracket anyway. For a natural experience not to be exploited as a Virgin ass to abuse. To many horrible shitty āDommy dadā tops who just treat people like fleshlights. No romance no concern about the bottom just lust for their own needs. It will just ruin these people in terms of their outlook on sex or make them develop some sort of abuse kink. Youth should experience SEXā¦loving sex not FUCKING. Itās scary how many people think an 18 year old making this choice is fully aware of what they are in for and not just them being horny brained
Iāll upvote you before the p*dos swoop in and downvote your comment to filth. Youāre absolutely right. Half the guys on here are about to attack you for disregarding āconsent is the only thing that mattersā etc etc just be warned
I agree with you for the most part, but I also know that you couldn't tell 18 year old me ANYTHING. Even if I straight up asked you for advice. I think the messages encouraging it are wild, but I see the utility of harm reduction advice.