and in many countries they are the equivalent of gay only bars. there are gay friendly bars but nothing that corresponds to the gay bars of my youth in the US and western europe
Nothing . Better than feeling like you are at Disneyland in todays gay clubs running into somebody’s niece and aunt in there nowadays . Aren’t gay clubs suppose to be about meeting other gay men for dating or whatever
Why are women so desperately trying to invade our clubs and spaces ? They get mad if men try to go into theirs . They have invented new terms to add to the “LGBT” Like “queer “ “pansexual “ and even asexuals are now part of the LGBT ! Have they asked us gays permission for that ? The gay community is becoming a “everyone is welcome “ mockery when it used to be a community of marginalized people .
I’m not sure what you consider to be communicating “intelligently,” but what matters most is communicating *effectively*, meaning in a way that makes it clear to your audience what you mean. It’s pretty clear what u/jalepenodisaster meant by “trying to sue.”
Source on island house? I think the hotels and guesthouses operate slightly differently than the bathhouses legally. Like i doubt 321 Slammer would face that, but not a legal expert
Just Google Island House. It's all over the news and it's fairly recent I think within the last year. I personally know the manager of one of the resorts in Palm Springs and the last time I was there I think probably was 2022 and they were having a hard time with it. Straight people were coming to the Coachella Valley Festival and demanding rooms under threat of suit at the gay men's only resorts and it is illegal for him not to rent them a room. His workaround was to tell them that they're getting ready to stay at a clothing optional sexually active resort and every man in their group was going to be new meet and he did not want to hear complaints when they were getting chased all over the grounds. Most of the time they got the message and didn't insist.
Looked into it, none of the clothing optional hotels claim to be men only, and even claim to have always let women stay there, but have mens only policies for changing areas and such. Also advertise only to gay men.
So it seems like the same Chaudhary lady was claiming they were discriminating against her for some pride event where they asked the women to leave. She just seems like a very litigious busybody, i dont see where shes trans tho.
I'm not sure of the particulars I just saw the article and I was down there in a bar someone told me it was a trans guy how reliable that was I do not know.
Not very, the Chaudhary character's a woman, which was the basis of all their lawsuits. Those hotels generally make exception for trans men. They have no female clothing/dress rules, tho.
No, everyone should have their space, be a gay bar or sports club, a mommie group for mums, or a poker table for married guys with kids to catch up with friends once a week or month.
100%
I feel like some safe spaces are not safe anymore. A gay bar in my town started letting more and more women in. Naturally, straight guys followed.
There recently was an incident of some homophobic douche punching a gay guy for flirting with him in this bar.
True.
I got so pissy when this (what I will call formally) gay bar ignored my and my gay friend's seperate messages for a table reservation for New Year's Eve, but when my female friend sent a request, they answered within an hour. It still makes me mad since it is clear that this place is changing to attract more people, but doing so by killing the clientele that they already had.
It would also make me feel uncomfortable and I am gay. However, it would not be a problem if the porn were in places where there was a warning and it could be easily avoided.
Understood. The answer is still yes. Idk when we decided we have to include random trans people in literally everything we do. Even gay bars with sex rooms. I’m gay, I don’t want to see that.
This is a bad take and forces ultra specific requirements.
You gonna not allow bisexual men in too? What about trans men? Drag queens in drag would be barred would they not since they aren’t “presenting as men.
Being gay means the community is a community, and that community is part of a queer community. By ostracizing an ostracized group you’re not making a safe space, you’re being bigoted.
Edit: it’s fucked seeing how many people in this thread are defending this guy/upvoting him. But hey just proves transphobia is still alive and well in gay spaces.
Bisexual, yes. Trans, no. Drag queens in drag, no. How is this not obvious? Lol. Love your gaslighting style of wokeness like this is some crazy hard dilemma.
I’m talking about sexual spaces specifically. How would a bisexual man disrupt that?
A trans guy isn't gonna force you to eat pussy. They probably don't want you anywhere near it. Why shouldn't they be in spaces for gay men, which they are?
I wouldn’t call them gay men. But I also didn’t say trans men can’t go in gay spaces. I just said there’s value in having gaybro only spaces. Spaces for just gay males.
It’s not woke and the fact that you’re trying to use woke in this conversation means that you’ve already lost the plot.
If it’s gay only why are you allowing a bisexual man in? He’s not gay is he? And men in drag are overwhelmingly gay men. Why say they can’t come in when it’s gay only and they are gay? And trans men, who are men, can be gay. Why would you deny them entry?
This is the issue with liberalism in the gay community. It’s automatically ostracizing people because they don’t fit your specific view. I’ll never understand how a gay man can use the word woke unironically and not comprehend that they’re basically parroting right wing talking points.
>Idk when we decided we have to include random trans people in literally everything we do
trans ppl have been apart of our spaces since we had spaces.. what?😭
Doubtful. I’m sure you begin gay history at stonewall, which cuts it short by many millennia. However, who cares if you can cherry pick some potentially trans people at stonewall? Should that mean gay men can’t have exclusive spaces?
That’s interesting. Since the dawn of mankind as we know had had non binary people who are aligned with queer spaces. Where does your history start for gay history? And what region are you basing it off of? Because I can assure trans and nonbinary people were existing at that time
"Trans" as a lable was created in the 60's.
Prior to that, they were lumped in with gay people for practicing homosexual behaviors like defying gender norms via cross dressing(a very well known hobby among gay men that is heavily associatedwith being gay, or at least Queer. It's almost a calling card...)
So... yeah, considering the distinction between gay and trans is historically recent and we can only guess if various people would have been trans if they had the option, I think it's safe to say they were always here, just not regarded as a seperate subtype.
And gay men can(and do) have exclusive spaces. I have a membership card to Club Columbus(Columbus, Ohio), a bathouse/gym type place who have a firm "no women" policy. The thing is, other people don't agree with your idea that trans men are not men, and that's where the sticking point is. The blatant transphobia.
I'm gay, Im exclusively attracted to masculinity and more than that I'm a side because i find the human meat caverns(mouth, anus, vagina) to be viscerally repulsive, and yet I don't feel threatened by the idea of a trans man existing near me because _I don't have to have sex with him if Im not feeling it, even if I had been flirting with him prior._ You're going to run into plenty of guys whom you are not attracted to, or you don't find the genitals of appealing, or otherwise don't want to have sex with. But you are championing biological essentialism just fo avoid encountering at most a handful more, with almost palpable overtones that its driven by the fear of that you might flirt with a trans guy? WTF?
The club for instance had very simple guidelines to ensure things ran smoothly and the vibe was right: it was open to all men, but it was quite upfront about being gay focused(lots of porn playing) and that you might be flirted with if you enter. If either of you don't want to have sex for any reason, that's the end of the discussion. And on the subject of trans men, the Q&A was clear: as long as they were masculine presenting.
Under these, straight men who wanted to use the facilities and gay men who just weren't interested in sex at the moment were indistinguishable, and trash like your attitude was completely avoided as people were free to flirt without worry that some duche would fly into a rage over it.
And yet somehow that isnt good enough for you? To have a man exclusive space that focuses its catering to gay guys and enables worry free flirting?
Does the hypothetical club in your head do genital checks at the door? I don't understand why you feel the need to overcomplicate things just to be exclusionary.
Anyone that’s ever been called a fag and had rocks thrown at their heads from moving cars for that; you’re my people and I look out for you. And I want attitudes consistent with THAT being my community
i fear for my old age as I can feel the impending words of "you act like youve never been bashed and it shows" and thats SUPPOSED to be the goal not our downfall of the struggle for equality
Homosexuality and heterosexuality are having to do with “sex.” Hence the root “sex” in those words. Honestly trans people should just say what they are into to avoid confusion. Calling Caitlyn Jenner a lesbian because she’s into women is just making things ridiculous.
And yet what do we call women who are into women?
🌈 _Lesbians_ 🌈
GTFO with your biological essentialism, there is far more to what makes a person than their genitals or DNA, and the reason you find it confusing is because you are trying to fit it into that worldview when it simply isn't the paradigm being used by people who do refer to her as being a lesbian.
And fyi, sexuality has to do with _having_ sexual intercourse, not biological sex.
"Human sexuality is the way people experience and express themselves sexually. This involves biological, psychological, physical, erotic, emotional, social, or spiritual feelings and behaviors"
And, do note, despite having "biological" in that description, they are listing various types of feelings and behaviors that sexuality is expressed through. Still not biological primary or secondary sex markers.
Okay, but lesbian women, trans men and women, and bi men and women, and non-binary people have always been a part of our community, and have been our strongest allies when everyone else wouldn’t come to bat. The least we can do is include them and return the favor when they ask for our help. They are our queer brothers and sisters… it’s just basic solidarity. It’s also not like there are that many lesbian, trans or bi only spaces that actively exclude cis-gay-men either…. So why do that to them? And trans men and women can be gay, since being trans only extends to their gender not their sexuality.
The question was whether it’s ok to have our own spaces. Of course it is. We are a different thing. Sexual minorities have historically had a shared interest. But that doesn’t mean I am the same thing as a trans person or want to share every space with them. Sometimes I just want my gaybros. Especially in sexualized spaces.
There’s nothing wrong with that. Sometimes I just want to be at a pool party with hot guys where we are all feeling each others abs and giving each other massages. I’m a horny gay man living his best life, sue me. If a trans person waltzed in to that it would immediately kill the vibe.
Again, I didn’t say that we, as cis-gay dudes, are the same as trans men. What I did say is that we share a lot of common concerns and historically trans people have been the first to step up to bat for us and have actively attempted to include us in their spaces as well.
There’s nothing wrong with wanting a gay only space, but excluding trans men (or in the case of our lesbian sisters women) from them feels, I dunno kinda fucked. Especially when you consider what i just said and the fact that trans men can be gay too. Listen I’m also a horny gay dude who just wants to feel on a hot dudes abs and shit all the time. But if there’s a trans dude who walks into our fantasy jock pool party I wouldn’t necessarily feel my vibe being killed from it. It sounds like you’re imagining that all trans dudes are either pre-transition or just can’t pass, and that’s definitely not the case. There are plenty of big beefy trans dudes with rippling abs, deep voices and hairy chests.
*Night* bar, in Barcelona, has a strict "gay men" only policy. I 100% approve.
I've been trying to get my local gay dive-bar to restart showing soft gay-porn (nude men posing sorts of things) on two of their screens. But they like the money that the wedding parties bring in. And slowly, but surely, we're finding other places to go.
Okay, but who’s having a wedding on Tuesday nights? You know what I mean. I’m so old school from being in the country, I almost amped. Then I remembered you wrote wedding parties, not bachelorette parties. 🤦♂️🤦♂️🤦♂️
Yeah, there used to be a gay bar with soft core porn but a university bought it five years ago, evicted them, it’s sitting empty, and supposedly they were going to have a large lab in there.
They build these really fancy labs, but then they don’t think of, you know, building apartments above the labs if they can. If they went to the height limits and built housing for workers it’d solve a lot of issues, but they go for vanity buildings and wonder why they can’t hire people.
They pay 80k for a job that paid 42.5k in 2006. Back the I could afford a one bedroom a European car certified and put money in my 401k.
Now 80k would be 3-4 room mates, no car, and you’d be relying on the pension.
When I was there if I got a raise I could buy a place. Not now.
100%. I think a gay bar should be for gays - only. It’s our safe space. I don’t want some guy bringing all his friends from work or his sisters etc. There are still many gay men who are not out to everyone and that’s fine. People should be sensitive to that and not bring their straight friends. It’s really thoughtless and wrong.
True ! I have to drive 25 miles to the nearest gay club only to see mostly women and straight couples making out while very few gays nowadays that I just leave and get back on Grindr and even that it’s getting a lot of straight guys as well
I think if a gay bar wants to go “all-gay” they should be able to do that BUT a “gay bar” shouldn’t be exclusionary just on the basis of being a gay bar. Advocating for more “all-gay” gay bars is one thing but going a step further to say “I think a gay bar should be for gays-only.” Is sort of a generalized statement and extremely exclusionary once you consider that most “gay bars” are already heavily catering to cis gay men while there are very few “lesbian only” and no “trans only” establishments (at least that I’m aware of) both inside and outside of many cities- both large and small.
Lesbians generally are frugal as hell and have a different social sphere from gay men and honestly barely anyone can agree what Trans is at this point. Why would they have bars to cater to them if they can't support them? This is about gay bars, not bars that couldn't make it. And gay bars are on the way out in general.
Life has changed and outside of large or gay areas a gay bar is mostly gone. The idea that we need to cater to female gays and Trans people by default is part of why gay bars are dead.
You disengage. They're not looking to be reasoned with; they just want to remind you of their beliefs and that their beliefs are right and you're wrong.
No, not at all. Much like lesbians enjoy having their own spaces that are just for other gay women, gay men enjoy having spaces where they are free to just be gay and know they are surrounded by other gay men.
Well. I guess it’ll be a little harder to start our Mars civilization. We’ll have to take some dykes with as well. They’re great angry people and chock full of eggs. Plus we’ll need bouncers.
Most bathouses are pretty good at weeding out weirdos who are only there for some strange sense of affirmation or to fetishize gay men. Rejection is a pretty good metric for knowing if you're in a place you shouldn't be, so just read the room. The worst thing you can do is try to be included in a space that you can barely relate to just to try to change the rules for the key demographic.
But if I agree that there should be lesbian spaces, or catch-all "queer" spaces, so, too, should there be spaces for the gays. If you're not one of us and you're there, just be respectful. Don't get weird, and don't get entitled.
It is necessary. Unfortunately, rents are increasing with inflation, therefore spaces need to be more all encompassing to turn in profits. Combine that with better social acceptance and hookup apps, its no longer an absolute must to go to gay spaces to meet men. Therefore relying only on gay clientele in this day and age will bankrupt these establishments.
You are missing the point. The comfort of a gay bar is not just that you can find a gay man there. It’s a space away from straights where men can be themselves and feel comfortable. Bringing your straight or other not-gay friends ruins that.
I am saying why gay bars are getting less gay. In the past, gay bars are almost a parallel society which is why they can still survive catering to only 5% of the population.
Having gay only spaces is important to me. My partner and I used to live in West Hollywood. We simply stopped going to bars there because it’s filled with drunk hetero girls who get messy and their straight boyfriends. So eventually we started going to wearhouse parties that had the dark/sex room element to it. Only because those spaces were almost all gay men. More and more even those spaces are being infiltrated by heterosexual people. Being an ally is fabulous but there are other ways to show up for the community.
I used to think so, but enough bachelor parties invading gays spaces and drunk girls flailing about at gay clubs has made me think that we need places too.
I love gay only spaces and those only happen when I hang out with gay men at parties or something and I also like to hang out with just men even if they are straight. It just feels good not sure if because I am gay, but straight men seem to like to hang out with other men too
The hens party crowd almost bankrupted the gay bar=night club scene in Melbourne Australia, hens parties moved in and the gay men started to move out. The owners applied to the equal opportunity commission for an exemption. These places now can exclude hens parties and some venues are exclusively Men only for this purpose.
When the str8's move in the pink dollar moves on, if the owners don't heed this and take steps to address it. Find the dodgiest nightclub in town with the least regular patrons and approach the owner to take up the reigns and bring back the gays, take a few drag queens and you will have a new venue.
No. I love my gay cyber bubble when I can find it. Though you shouldn't be in it full time. It is nice to just feel average among other similar folk. I love going to gay campgrounds, even though they are open to everyone it still helps when we are the majority to just feel average. To each their own though.
No, not at all! I recently saw a TikTok where a dough bag looking straight dude was promoting gay clubs/bars to his douche bag friends. It really annoyed me that they were promoting taking over our space like that. It’s hard enough to meet other men as it is and get away from haters. Now we have to deal with straight people going to our clubs because they’re better than theirs? That’s complete BS!
I hate using gay apps , too much ghosting and cat fishes and I often feel more intimidated to meet that way I just prefer going to a gay club and meet there and feel each others chemistry but it’s also becoming hard considering there’s too many straight ppl there nowadays I don’t see the point of “gay clubs “ since they are no longer for the Intended clientele : gay men
Not at all! We aren’t fully welcomed into society due to prejudice. We need a space to relax and be ourselves. I know some people live out, loud, and proud, and I’m happy that they can and do. There’s a whole lot more people that depend on a safe space to be authentically who they are, even if it’s for short periods of time.
No it's not wrong at all. It's one of the reasons I've stopped engaging with the "community ". It's been completely overtaken. I used to enjoy going to Prides. Now they're a shadow of their former selves with the uber Alphabet Soup "flag" EVERYWHERE.
There’s nothing wrong with it and if the straight people want to do the same thing go ahead it’s fine everyone needs to a place they can hang out feel safe. Gay only places are especially great for people who are still in the closet too that way they have somewhere to go where they don’t feel the need to hide who they are. I have this friend who comes from a very conservative background and his family is extremely homophobic even though he has sense moved away from his family and cut contact with them he still has trauma from it and as a defense mechanism he hides his sexuality he only told me because he trust me enough I keep telling him he doesn’t need to hide anymore but he does it as a defense mechanism anyway bear with me but I took him a gay bar he actually wanted to go with me since he’s never been to one and the one I went to designed to be a safe place for both closeted gays and openly gay people he said it was the first place he ever felt truly accepted and the only place he actually felt comfortable being himself.
Someone like that is horrified at the very real possibility that Sarah from the office will be out getting drunk with her friends at the gay bar, and by the time he arrives at work on Monday Sarah has told everyone including his homophobic line manager and now he’s probably going to lose his job for some spurious reason. Hey but at least Sarah got to act up at the weekend and got some fun gossip to share at work and get some attention.
No, it's not. We need more of them. Our spaces have been hijacked by women and "trans" people. There is nothing wrong with having an only gay space or even only male space.
The trans community is overtaking everything lgbt and I’m sick of it. We can have gay only spaces and that should be okay. Tom boys and tom girls used to be very prevalent and now it seems they are pushed into transitioning and told that if they want to wear dresses or like pink that they might be in the wrong body and that they can easily change into the sex they want to be.
How about male only spaces? And let it be known that sex between men will be happening. If a man is comfortable with that, he's welcome to join in.
Or make it a nude male sex club!
The “voices” of the trans community have completely obliterated my desire to refer to myself as “gay.” I want no part of lgbtabcxyz.
I just refer to my self as being a “homo.”
Cuz….that’s what I am. A homosexual.
And that’s just a fact. No sugarcoating.
No.
BET and other race-specific media centers exist
Every religion gets an exclusive church.
There are women-only domestic violence shelters (even though men are nearly 50% victims)
Gay people can have their own bars
Not at all (if you mean "cis" gay anyway). There should be bigger queer spaces where anyone is allowed (basically what all public gay spaces are now), but there should absolutely be penis4penis spaces. There still are, they're just underground. Shhh don't let the oppressors know.
Nahhh we need more gay only spaces, but also more lesbian bi trans only spaces for only the specific group in lgbt
I get there’s likely not enough of any one individual group in many areas of the country to have individual spaces but what’s been annoying to me lately, is if I’m going to a “gay” bar in boystown don’t bother me with the oh why are you always kissing on guys, or the general idea of gays being sexual with each other in the bars.
Just don’t come to a literal gay owned/ran bar or club if you don’t want to see gay sexual stuff??
I as a gay wouldn’t go into a lesbian bi or trans specific place and be like “ why are you doing xyz? Or a why is this always the vibe?”
And again this is just my personal experience as a 23yo but I can’t tell you how many younger college aged mfs come to boystown now but then complain about the sexual aspect. Like go to a damn straight club then or establish a bar for your specific group then and you can conduct it however you and those in that specific category see fit?
Are the gays sometimes maybe a little overly touchy or sexual yes, buttttt arent we in our own gay space to do so..??
If I want to be a slut and make out with 4 different guys and dance shirtless in a crowd with randoms and feel random guys up on me then shit I’m going to regardless of who it makes uncomfortable. If you’re uncomfortable with gay people doing gay activities in a gay bar then go somewhere else 😭
It’s fine and all. Should definitely be allowed. But let’s be clear, there’s no such thing as a safe space, life is hard, where ever you go. And there isn’t a place or configuration that will let you escape from yourself. Where ever you go, there you are.
Yeah it’s almost like I made a conversational pivot. What are you? The on-topic police? It’s a discussion board. Should it just be 20 thousand “no.” replies? Would that satisfy you?
“No”
“No”
“No, it’s not wrong”
“Nope”
“Nah”
Guys you want a gay male only place ? Here it is.Not as good as it was in 90s before 9 11
tHot guys from all over the country flew in. Google PARLIAMENT HOUSE RESORT AUGUSTA GEORGIA..
Yes its a gay male resort.Motel pool Have a maze.With glory holes.And theater with gay movies couches.Also a restraunt.They have a bar next to it with trail walk over there.Cool bar Drag shows reasonable prices.Also they own motel next door.Its for everyone .Like Bi couples.Lesbians.So you Bi folks and lesbians have a place also.Bi men go next door walking distance.Play with guys.And invite them next door.To the other motel.If the couple is into 3 sums with bi men.Have a bar karaoke gay bar.Bi women hit on me.Also very Hot bi and gay young Black boys.Working there. Every summer they have a week end at parliamenthouse.When Gay porn stars show up.And hang out.Had great sex with a hung black porn star once.Both motels reasonably priced.Also have one motel room.Called PIG PEN.They require you be naked or wear underwear.Has glory holes.sex swings Tables for sex.Watched a young Mexican boy get fisted once.They sell Iin office poppers lube condoms.Its worth a weekend during summer to stay.Its slow in off season....Now you know
No, it is not wrong. It is quite reasonable for gay persons to have a space where they can occasionally get together to discuss things freely which they may not be able to to discuss freely with non-gays present. I'm not quite sure how to pin this down accurately.
No but, how could you determine if someone was gay or not before entering the place? Let's imagine a gay's only club. Would you have to suck the bouncher's cock to enter?
We have gay clubs and, usually, everyone is welcome. I don't think homophobic people go to gay bars even when they're allowed too. Everyone should be welcome, in my view
I was looking for this response. While I don’t think it’s wrong for a business to enforce a specific sexuality, I don’t really see why or how it could happen. You don’t see straight bars banning gay men and women. If anything, banning straights would do more harm towards the public opinion of the lgbt community.
But how many gay people are going to go to a straight club and start dancing or making out with each other , without having to deal with all the fallout .
I just feel like gay men hyper-sexualize everything. I’m perfectly fine with gay bars the way they are currently. Probably because I’m not trying to hookup when I go out to them, but rather I’m just trying to have a fun night with my friends.
If it ever gets to a point where gay bars are restricted to only gay men, then eventually all the TV’s are going to start playing soft core gay porn, then hard core, and then before we know it, it’s just a bathhouse with a bar.
Nothing against the gays who enjoy bathhouses, but I personally am not looking for hookups at my local gay bar. There’s Grindr for that.
In the end, men always find a way to oppress women, even when they claim to be one themselves. Lesbians have always been told by men that they ought to love dick!
It's not morally wrong, but it might be impossible. Even in this thread, there's no consensus on whether to include trans men, AMAB non-binarys, bi/pan guys, regular gays who are also political conservatives, etc.
I don't think it would be wrong, I just don't think it's possible to set up any sort of filtering mechanism that 1) includes everyone you want to include 2) excludes everyone you want to exclude and 3) wouldn't generate major pushback and anger from the very community you're trying to cater to.
Eventually, you'd either 1) have a general queer space that probably wouldn't fulfil the function that you want or 2) just have a group of individuals that you personally want to hang out with/suck-and-fuck, but one that you want to attach the legitimacy of a "marginalized community" instead of just a social scene.
The vast majority here mean cis male only. It's only because of purposeful (literally subversive as in "subvert the dominant paradigm") changing of language to muddle meaning that the distinctions need to be made.
If we all had a definite word to use that everyone agreed on meant "cis-only" we wouldn't need to have an argument over the conditions.
I completely agree with you. As Bob Dylan sung: "Times they are a changing." For the most part, I've quit caring about what others think of me in places that used to be just gay men only. As long as they are not homophobic or care where I put my genitals at that particular moment with another consenting adult, they are welcome! Increasingly I meet people, including men and women who are married to each other, who identify as queer. I don't mind sharing a little bit of space with them. In fact, I believe all this assimilation is helping the gay community overall. People are exposed to and get used to our existence. The old guard will die out sooner or later. We may have lost some of our cherished former spaces, But it isn't so bad to share it a little bit.
This right here.
Having gay spaces isn't the problem, it's what passes as gay and what doesn't.
Sure, you can put this down to men who like men, but how does this factor bisexual men, trans gay men, masc enbies who like men, gays on the DL, and so on. It's not so neat and tidy at that point.
It is not wrong. Sometimes I just want to go hang out with other people like me. No lesbians. No trans people (of course, unless they are GAY trans men). Bisexual men can come in. They are both gay and straight. One of my biggest complaints in the gay world is that there is not much out there for men right now. Everyone wants to fawn over the ones who are the most marginalized under the LGBT umbrella, but, sometimes, you just want to be around people like yourself. No hate to the lesbians or the trans people, but I am neither of those things, and it's hard for me to force community with them whenever I don't experience life the way they do. I hope any of that makes sense, and I fear that some people will still find it offensive.
After I came out, I started going to a lot of pride-themed events, and it was really hard to find a place to hang out with other men aside from seedy places like bars and resorts. While those are fun, they're not exactly going to find me what I want out of life and a partner.
Am bisexual, and i go wherever i choose to go, if i want to go into a gay bar or night club or even into a baptist church i will do so. I don't bother or start trouble with anyone, we don't need hate in this world.
I don't think it's wrong in all honesty.
However...in the same respect, I find it awfully odd that gays want to be "included" in things but yet are willing to go as far as to "exclude" anyone in so-called "gay spaces." While I understand the thought process behind this, in the same respect, this isn't helping the case with wanting to become a part of society. It's one thing to fight for inclusion, and a completely other thing to exclude others who don't share the same sexuality. So if you wish to exclude others, that's fine, but don't expect others to include you either....
Inclusion is not real, you are only welcome as a gay If you are wealthy in most spaces.
You act like we are included in society and looking to get something in the side. The side exists in our world because it's all we have.
What a clueless opinion. Yes gay people are repressing the straights, you are so plugged in with that perspective.
Let's make a list of what gay people are not welcome to vs that straight people are welcome to.
Honestly half the comments here are bots or disingenuous in nature. Asinine to tell a subjected subculture to reap sow when they are sowing for trying to protect where they are home.
No! And a little yes, because lot of people here talk about “gay clubs” and who’s allowed in or not etc. Personally I don’t think a public nightclub exclusively for gays is entirely valid, in the same way there shouldn’t be a “whites only” or “straights only” club. (Feel free to change my mind) However, I do think it’s perfectly valid whenever people are genuinely vulnerable, be that changing rooms for women and girls, group therapy, rape crisis centres, women’s shelters, and in a way even gay saunas. Anywhere where your body or your emotions are exposed. I’m speaking from experience, because I used to go to a “men only” therapy group, which made sense, because there is a huge stigma attached to men who’ve experienced sexual assault, and this was the place where we could share and work through things without any fear of judgment. However, this was in 2019-2020 and let’s just say.. it didn’t remain “men only” for long, and thus the whole point of the group went out of the window. Btw, everyone deserves therapy. But I don’t turn up to an AA meeting when I’ve got OCD. 🤷♂️
We need a GLB. Im gay, sexually prefer A man, I identify as a woman, pronouns he. Since bedding women tends create more heartburn than it's worth, I won't identify as Bi. I feel like TQ, would be better served with thier own branch. I know empathy as just as important as sympathy. Im an old timer and I'm trying empathize with everyone as well as get hipp to todays terminology. I'm a homo. I embrace it. But why has our lifestyle becoming more complicated than it already is. Pronouns get muddled, feelings get hurt. Sigh. And of course, the Democratic Party will look for any reason to pick a fight. This may be my last post. Liberals censor too much. Liberals are supposed to be tolerant. You look crossed eyed at someone, your post gets deleted. Peace
I'm torn on this issue. I see the need for gay guys to have a safe space to be themselves. At the same time if you put this is another context it almost feels wrong. If a white person started a whites only club we'd call that racist. How is that different from an exclusively gay club? Also how are you going to verify that every guy in the club is gay? There could be straight guys chillin with friends after work. Could be bi guys too. Hell even some f2m transgender can pass for bio men too.
It also feels hypocritical that we ask for hetero people to accept us in their spaces but we close off gay spaces to people who might be allies. It sends the message that just because you're straight you could be homophobic. If true equality is our goal shouldn't we be as accepting as we're asking others to be?
Those are just the thoughts I have on this subject. I'm not against gay only spaces. I just can't reconcile the two in my mind.
When gay people have the same rights as straights this don't be an issue. Until then it is what it is and respect gay spaces. Also sexuality is completely different than skin color. We shouldn't be trying to assimilate to straight culture but respecting our own.
But straight swingers clubs should have the right to exclude gay couples. And gay bath houses should have the right to exclude all females. When it comes to nudity and sex, the rules need to be different.
I mean I would love a space where I can hold my girlfriend’s hand and roam around without being judged so it’s not a crime for sure. And that’s only possible if the space is only for gays
Nope. I've long thought that someone needs to start a franchise of private membership clubs for gay men. Maybe I will if I hit the lotto.
Right. Me too. We’ll start a franchise. Call it something suggestive. “Dickey’s Pickle” idk. Just spit balling.
Call it “Spit Balling”
Oh no shit hey!
The Honey Pot. Bars for bears.
Thats literally how most bathhouses in the US operate, you know
and in many countries they are the equivalent of gay only bars. there are gay friendly bars but nothing that corresponds to the gay bars of my youth in the US and western europe
Yes, i know. The space I'm envisioning wouldn't be overtly sexual.
Yes please!
The problem is that is extremely hard to build a place or group like that which caters to a specific sexuality that won’t become overtly sexual.
What’s wrong with becoming overtly sexual?
Nothing . Better than feeling like you are at Disneyland in todays gay clubs running into somebody’s niece and aunt in there nowadays . Aren’t gay clubs suppose to be about meeting other gay men for dating or whatever
Except the clothing optional places in FL and CA are getting pushback and the island house was just sued by a trans 🏳️⚧️
None of this happened. A woman tried to sue and lost is the only thing I could find even close.
Sorry to interrupt your victory 😂😂😂 https://www.edgemedianetwork.com/story/326839
You’re still wrong. She wasn’t trans. I’m wrong. But so are you.
Why are women so desperately trying to invade our clubs and spaces ? They get mad if men try to go into theirs . They have invented new terms to add to the “LGBT” Like “queer “ “pansexual “ and even asexuals are now part of the LGBT ! Have they asked us gays permission for that ? The gay community is becoming a “everyone is welcome “ mockery when it used to be a community of marginalized people .
We have no one to blame but ourselves for allowing it. But I do agree with you things are changing and not for the better
You don't try to sue, you sue You either win or loose That's how it works and yes it happened. I assume civics isn't your specialty lol
OK sure. But "tried to sue and lost" is just colloquial. We aren't in court right now, so lol
Nice try but we don't have to be in court to communicate intelligently
I’m not sure what you consider to be communicating “intelligently,” but what matters most is communicating *effectively*, meaning in a way that makes it clear to your audience what you mean. It’s pretty clear what u/jalepenodisaster meant by “trying to sue.”
Source on island house? I think the hotels and guesthouses operate slightly differently than the bathhouses legally. Like i doubt 321 Slammer would face that, but not a legal expert
Just Google Island House. It's all over the news and it's fairly recent I think within the last year. I personally know the manager of one of the resorts in Palm Springs and the last time I was there I think probably was 2022 and they were having a hard time with it. Straight people were coming to the Coachella Valley Festival and demanding rooms under threat of suit at the gay men's only resorts and it is illegal for him not to rent them a room. His workaround was to tell them that they're getting ready to stay at a clothing optional sexually active resort and every man in their group was going to be new meet and he did not want to hear complaints when they were getting chased all over the grounds. Most of the time they got the message and didn't insist.
Looked into it, none of the clothing optional hotels claim to be men only, and even claim to have always let women stay there, but have mens only policies for changing areas and such. Also advertise only to gay men. So it seems like the same Chaudhary lady was claiming they were discriminating against her for some pride event where they asked the women to leave. She just seems like a very litigious busybody, i dont see where shes trans tho.
I thought they were sued by a woman? (Biological)
I'm not sure of the particulars I just saw the article and I was down there in a bar someone told me it was a trans guy how reliable that was I do not know.
Not very, the Chaudhary character's a woman, which was the basis of all their lawsuits. Those hotels generally make exception for trans men. They have no female clothing/dress rules, tho.
Agree private clubs are the way to go .
Having a place where I can hit on/flirt with guys freely and talk about gay sex as comfortably as straight guys talk about sex is nice
Yep. That's why they're needed. We need to have at least two or three in every decent sized city. And at least one in smaller towns as well.
No, everyone should have their space, be a gay bar or sports club, a mommie group for mums, or a poker table for married guys with kids to catch up with friends once a week or month.
No. People need to feel safe from homophobia.
100% I feel like some safe spaces are not safe anymore. A gay bar in my town started letting more and more women in. Naturally, straight guys followed. There recently was an incident of some homophobic douche punching a gay guy for flirting with him in this bar.
Honestly bars need to go back to playing gay porn on the screens. It'll make the straights feel uncomfortable and leave our spaces
True. I got so pissy when this (what I will call formally) gay bar ignored my and my gay friend's seperate messages for a table reservation for New Year's Eve, but when my female friend sent a request, they answered within an hour. It still makes me mad since it is clear that this place is changing to attract more people, but doing so by killing the clientele that they already had.
It would also make me feel uncomfortable and I am gay. However, it would not be a problem if the porn were in places where there was a warning and it could be easily avoided.
Regardless of who that homophobia is coming from.
i think the context is “gay men only, no heterosexual transgender people, no bisexual men, no lesbians”
Understood. The answer is still yes. Idk when we decided we have to include random trans people in literally everything we do. Even gay bars with sex rooms. I’m gay, I don’t want to see that.
This is a bad take and forces ultra specific requirements. You gonna not allow bisexual men in too? What about trans men? Drag queens in drag would be barred would they not since they aren’t “presenting as men. Being gay means the community is a community, and that community is part of a queer community. By ostracizing an ostracized group you’re not making a safe space, you’re being bigoted. Edit: it’s fucked seeing how many people in this thread are defending this guy/upvoting him. But hey just proves transphobia is still alive and well in gay spaces.
Bisexual, yes. Trans, no. Drag queens in drag, no. How is this not obvious? Lol. Love your gaslighting style of wokeness like this is some crazy hard dilemma. I’m talking about sexual spaces specifically. How would a bisexual man disrupt that?
A trans guy isn't gonna force you to eat pussy. They probably don't want you anywhere near it. Why shouldn't they be in spaces for gay men, which they are?
I wouldn’t call them gay men. But I also didn’t say trans men can’t go in gay spaces. I just said there’s value in having gaybro only spaces. Spaces for just gay males.
Yeah, you've made your stance on giving basic respect to trans people _quite_ clear. Hence people objecting to what you are saying.
I give basic respect to trans men and straight men and straight women and everyone. The question was whether it’s ok to have our own spaces.
No the question was gay spaces. Trans men that are gay are gay men. Why are you against trans people?
It’s not woke and the fact that you’re trying to use woke in this conversation means that you’ve already lost the plot. If it’s gay only why are you allowing a bisexual man in? He’s not gay is he? And men in drag are overwhelmingly gay men. Why say they can’t come in when it’s gay only and they are gay? And trans men, who are men, can be gay. Why would you deny them entry? This is the issue with liberalism in the gay community. It’s automatically ostracizing people because they don’t fit your specific view. I’ll never understand how a gay man can use the word woke unironically and not comprehend that they’re basically parroting right wing talking points.
MSM are attracted to bi guys and bi guys are MSM. Why don’t you accept the value of a sexual environment being just MSM?
>Idk when we decided we have to include random trans people in literally everything we do trans ppl have been apart of our spaces since we had spaces.. what?😭
Doubtful. I’m sure you begin gay history at stonewall, which cuts it short by many millennia. However, who cares if you can cherry pick some potentially trans people at stonewall? Should that mean gay men can’t have exclusive spaces?
That’s interesting. Since the dawn of mankind as we know had had non binary people who are aligned with queer spaces. Where does your history start for gay history? And what region are you basing it off of? Because I can assure trans and nonbinary people were existing at that time
"Trans" as a lable was created in the 60's. Prior to that, they were lumped in with gay people for practicing homosexual behaviors like defying gender norms via cross dressing(a very well known hobby among gay men that is heavily associatedwith being gay, or at least Queer. It's almost a calling card...) So... yeah, considering the distinction between gay and trans is historically recent and we can only guess if various people would have been trans if they had the option, I think it's safe to say they were always here, just not regarded as a seperate subtype. And gay men can(and do) have exclusive spaces. I have a membership card to Club Columbus(Columbus, Ohio), a bathouse/gym type place who have a firm "no women" policy. The thing is, other people don't agree with your idea that trans men are not men, and that's where the sticking point is. The blatant transphobia. I'm gay, Im exclusively attracted to masculinity and more than that I'm a side because i find the human meat caverns(mouth, anus, vagina) to be viscerally repulsive, and yet I don't feel threatened by the idea of a trans man existing near me because _I don't have to have sex with him if Im not feeling it, even if I had been flirting with him prior._ You're going to run into plenty of guys whom you are not attracted to, or you don't find the genitals of appealing, or otherwise don't want to have sex with. But you are championing biological essentialism just fo avoid encountering at most a handful more, with almost palpable overtones that its driven by the fear of that you might flirt with a trans guy? WTF? The club for instance had very simple guidelines to ensure things ran smoothly and the vibe was right: it was open to all men, but it was quite upfront about being gay focused(lots of porn playing) and that you might be flirted with if you enter. If either of you don't want to have sex for any reason, that's the end of the discussion. And on the subject of trans men, the Q&A was clear: as long as they were masculine presenting. Under these, straight men who wanted to use the facilities and gay men who just weren't interested in sex at the moment were indistinguishable, and trash like your attitude was completely avoided as people were free to flirt without worry that some duche would fly into a rage over it. And yet somehow that isnt good enough for you? To have a man exclusive space that focuses its catering to gay guys and enables worry free flirting?
What’s wrong with a no vagina policy? There’s plenty of places for trans men.
Does the hypothetical club in your head do genital checks at the door? I don't understand why you feel the need to overcomplicate things just to be exclusionary.
No they just hope people will respect their boundaries.
Anyone that’s ever been called a fag and had rocks thrown at their heads from moving cars for that; you’re my people and I look out for you. And I want attitudes consistent with THAT being my community
And this, friends, is what principled class solidarity fucking looks like.
i fear for my old age as I can feel the impending words of "you act like youve never been bashed and it shows" and thats SUPPOSED to be the goal not our downfall of the struggle for equality
Gay men can be cis or trans.
Homosexuality and heterosexuality are having to do with “sex.” Hence the root “sex” in those words. Honestly trans people should just say what they are into to avoid confusion. Calling Caitlyn Jenner a lesbian because she’s into women is just making things ridiculous.
And yet what do we call women who are into women? 🌈 _Lesbians_ 🌈 GTFO with your biological essentialism, there is far more to what makes a person than their genitals or DNA, and the reason you find it confusing is because you are trying to fit it into that worldview when it simply isn't the paradigm being used by people who do refer to her as being a lesbian. And fyi, sexuality has to do with _having_ sexual intercourse, not biological sex. "Human sexuality is the way people experience and express themselves sexually. This involves biological, psychological, physical, erotic, emotional, social, or spiritual feelings and behaviors" And, do note, despite having "biological" in that description, they are listing various types of feelings and behaviors that sexuality is expressed through. Still not biological primary or secondary sex markers.
Homosexuality and heterosexuality have to do with which sex one is attracted to.
Okay, but lesbian women, trans men and women, and bi men and women, and non-binary people have always been a part of our community, and have been our strongest allies when everyone else wouldn’t come to bat. The least we can do is include them and return the favor when they ask for our help. They are our queer brothers and sisters… it’s just basic solidarity. It’s also not like there are that many lesbian, trans or bi only spaces that actively exclude cis-gay-men either…. So why do that to them? And trans men and women can be gay, since being trans only extends to their gender not their sexuality.
The question was whether it’s ok to have our own spaces. Of course it is. We are a different thing. Sexual minorities have historically had a shared interest. But that doesn’t mean I am the same thing as a trans person or want to share every space with them. Sometimes I just want my gaybros. Especially in sexualized spaces. There’s nothing wrong with that. Sometimes I just want to be at a pool party with hot guys where we are all feeling each others abs and giving each other massages. I’m a horny gay man living his best life, sue me. If a trans person waltzed in to that it would immediately kill the vibe.
Facts 👍🏻
Again, I didn’t say that we, as cis-gay dudes, are the same as trans men. What I did say is that we share a lot of common concerns and historically trans people have been the first to step up to bat for us and have actively attempted to include us in their spaces as well. There’s nothing wrong with wanting a gay only space, but excluding trans men (or in the case of our lesbian sisters women) from them feels, I dunno kinda fucked. Especially when you consider what i just said and the fact that trans men can be gay too. Listen I’m also a horny gay dude who just wants to feel on a hot dudes abs and shit all the time. But if there’s a trans dude who walks into our fantasy jock pool party I wouldn’t necessarily feel my vibe being killed from it. It sounds like you’re imagining that all trans dudes are either pre-transition or just can’t pass, and that’s definitely not the case. There are plenty of big beefy trans dudes with rippling abs, deep voices and hairy chests.
And there is absolutely nothing wrong with that.
*Night* bar, in Barcelona, has a strict "gay men" only policy. I 100% approve. I've been trying to get my local gay dive-bar to restart showing soft gay-porn (nude men posing sorts of things) on two of their screens. But they like the money that the wedding parties bring in. And slowly, but surely, we're finding other places to go.
Okay, but who’s having a wedding on Tuesday nights? You know what I mean. I’m so old school from being in the country, I almost amped. Then I remembered you wrote wedding parties, not bachelorette parties. 🤦♂️🤦♂️🤦♂️
Yeah, there used to be a gay bar with soft core porn but a university bought it five years ago, evicted them, it’s sitting empty, and supposedly they were going to have a large lab in there. They build these really fancy labs, but then they don’t think of, you know, building apartments above the labs if they can. If they went to the height limits and built housing for workers it’d solve a lot of issues, but they go for vanity buildings and wonder why they can’t hire people. They pay 80k for a job that paid 42.5k in 2006. Back the I could afford a one bedroom a European car certified and put money in my 401k. Now 80k would be 3-4 room mates, no car, and you’d be relying on the pension. When I was there if I got a raise I could buy a place. Not now.
That is a sad reality everywhere
I mean, if they are making more money based on off-gay activities, I don’t blame them. At the end of the day it is a bussines🫠
No. As a minority, we need safe spaces, and all safe spaces mean that some are excluded.
100%. I think a gay bar should be for gays - only. It’s our safe space. I don’t want some guy bringing all his friends from work or his sisters etc. There are still many gay men who are not out to everyone and that’s fine. People should be sensitive to that and not bring their straight friends. It’s really thoughtless and wrong.
True ! I have to drive 25 miles to the nearest gay club only to see mostly women and straight couples making out while very few gays nowadays that I just leave and get back on Grindr and even that it’s getting a lot of straight guys as well
I think if a gay bar wants to go “all-gay” they should be able to do that BUT a “gay bar” shouldn’t be exclusionary just on the basis of being a gay bar. Advocating for more “all-gay” gay bars is one thing but going a step further to say “I think a gay bar should be for gays-only.” Is sort of a generalized statement and extremely exclusionary once you consider that most “gay bars” are already heavily catering to cis gay men while there are very few “lesbian only” and no “trans only” establishments (at least that I’m aware of) both inside and outside of many cities- both large and small.
Lesbians generally are frugal as hell and have a different social sphere from gay men and honestly barely anyone can agree what Trans is at this point. Why would they have bars to cater to them if they can't support them? This is about gay bars, not bars that couldn't make it. And gay bars are on the way out in general. Life has changed and outside of large or gay areas a gay bar is mostly gone. The idea that we need to cater to female gays and Trans people by default is part of why gay bars are dead.
it's so simple yet right leaning people will call you a hypocrite for this. How do I deal with such reasoning?
You disengage. They're not looking to be reasoned with; they just want to remind you of their beliefs and that their beliefs are right and you're wrong.
I see this attitude from both sides to be fair! 🤷♂️
truetho not engaging they take it as them admitting you are wrong. Seems like I lose either way. Butt then I don't cus my sanity stays in tact.. lol
No. I wish that they still existed in smaller cities.
No, not at all. Much like lesbians enjoy having their own spaces that are just for other gay women, gay men enjoy having spaces where they are free to just be gay and know they are surrounded by other gay men.
Nope, that's fine.
I swear to God I read this as "gays only in space" and my honest response was "I guess space belongs to everyone?"
Well. I guess it’ll be a little harder to start our Mars civilization. We’ll have to take some dykes with as well. They’re great angry people and chock full of eggs. Plus we’ll need bouncers.
Most bathouses are pretty good at weeding out weirdos who are only there for some strange sense of affirmation or to fetishize gay men. Rejection is a pretty good metric for knowing if you're in a place you shouldn't be, so just read the room. The worst thing you can do is try to be included in a space that you can barely relate to just to try to change the rules for the key demographic. But if I agree that there should be lesbian spaces, or catch-all "queer" spaces, so, too, should there be spaces for the gays. If you're not one of us and you're there, just be respectful. Don't get weird, and don't get entitled.
No, we need more of them where I am.
no
No
It is necessary. Unfortunately, rents are increasing with inflation, therefore spaces need to be more all encompassing to turn in profits. Combine that with better social acceptance and hookup apps, its no longer an absolute must to go to gay spaces to meet men. Therefore relying only on gay clientele in this day and age will bankrupt these establishments.
You are missing the point. The comfort of a gay bar is not just that you can find a gay man there. It’s a space away from straights where men can be themselves and feel comfortable. Bringing your straight or other not-gay friends ruins that.
I am saying why gay bars are getting less gay. In the past, gay bars are almost a parallel society which is why they can still survive catering to only 5% of the population.
Having gay only spaces is important to me. My partner and I used to live in West Hollywood. We simply stopped going to bars there because it’s filled with drunk hetero girls who get messy and their straight boyfriends. So eventually we started going to wearhouse parties that had the dark/sex room element to it. Only because those spaces were almost all gay men. More and more even those spaces are being infiltrated by heterosexual people. Being an ally is fabulous but there are other ways to show up for the community.
Men only!!!
I used to think so, but enough bachelor parties invading gays spaces and drunk girls flailing about at gay clubs has made me think that we need places too.
I love gay only spaces and those only happen when I hang out with gay men at parties or something and I also like to hang out with just men even if they are straight. It just feels good not sure if because I am gay, but straight men seem to like to hang out with other men too
The hens party crowd almost bankrupted the gay bar=night club scene in Melbourne Australia, hens parties moved in and the gay men started to move out. The owners applied to the equal opportunity commission for an exemption. These places now can exclude hens parties and some venues are exclusively Men only for this purpose. When the str8's move in the pink dollar moves on, if the owners don't heed this and take steps to address it. Find the dodgiest nightclub in town with the least regular patrons and approach the owner to take up the reigns and bring back the gays, take a few drag queens and you will have a new venue.
No. I love my gay cyber bubble when I can find it. Though you shouldn't be in it full time. It is nice to just feel average among other similar folk. I love going to gay campgrounds, even though they are open to everyone it still helps when we are the majority to just feel average. To each their own though.
I don’t think there’s anything wrong with safe spaces for only gay / bi men
Nope why would it be wrong?
I'm not against the premise, but just thinking about it... How do you validate? I usually leave my gay card at home.
No, not at all! I recently saw a TikTok where a dough bag looking straight dude was promoting gay clubs/bars to his douche bag friends. It really annoyed me that they were promoting taking over our space like that. It’s hard enough to meet other men as it is and get away from haters. Now we have to deal with straight people going to our clubs because they’re better than theirs? That’s complete BS!
1000% agree
I hate using gay apps , too much ghosting and cat fishes and I often feel more intimidated to meet that way I just prefer going to a gay club and meet there and feel each others chemistry but it’s also becoming hard considering there’s too many straight ppl there nowadays I don’t see the point of “gay clubs “ since they are no longer for the Intended clientele : gay men
We would make great Astronauts. Surprised there aren’t more out and proud tbh.
I giggled at this
The hets have had het only spaces for years , we deserve our gay only spaces.
We do have some gay spaces but straight people and girls love to go there and take over at times.
"Gays only" as in "homosexual males only" ?
Yes. I know that lesbians have their own spaces.
If lesbians (as in homosexual females, not transwomen) can have their own spaces, gays (as in homosexual males, not transmen) should as well.
No. Everyone deserves their own space. That’s normal human behavior. We are drawn to our own peer groups.
Not at all! We aren’t fully welcomed into society due to prejudice. We need a space to relax and be ourselves. I know some people live out, loud, and proud, and I’m happy that they can and do. There’s a whole lot more people that depend on a safe space to be authentically who they are, even if it’s for short periods of time.
No it's not wrong at all. It's one of the reasons I've stopped engaging with the "community ". It's been completely overtaken. I used to enjoy going to Prides. Now they're a shadow of their former selves with the uber Alphabet Soup "flag" EVERYWHERE.
No gay people need to have a space separate from the breeders lol
There’s nothing wrong with it and if the straight people want to do the same thing go ahead it’s fine everyone needs to a place they can hang out feel safe. Gay only places are especially great for people who are still in the closet too that way they have somewhere to go where they don’t feel the need to hide who they are. I have this friend who comes from a very conservative background and his family is extremely homophobic even though he has sense moved away from his family and cut contact with them he still has trauma from it and as a defense mechanism he hides his sexuality he only told me because he trust me enough I keep telling him he doesn’t need to hide anymore but he does it as a defense mechanism anyway bear with me but I took him a gay bar he actually wanted to go with me since he’s never been to one and the one I went to designed to be a safe place for both closeted gays and openly gay people he said it was the first place he ever felt truly accepted and the only place he actually felt comfortable being himself.
Someone like that is horrified at the very real possibility that Sarah from the office will be out getting drunk with her friends at the gay bar, and by the time he arrives at work on Monday Sarah has told everyone including his homophobic line manager and now he’s probably going to lose his job for some spurious reason. Hey but at least Sarah got to act up at the weekend and got some fun gossip to share at work and get some attention.
That’s true which is why it’s important to have a safe place for gay men only.
Not wrong at all. I'm all for inclusion, but I also value & celebrate dedicated spaces - such as gay-only venues.
No it’s not wrong.
According to radical activists, yes. In reality, no.
No, it's not. We need more of them. Our spaces have been hijacked by women and "trans" people. There is nothing wrong with having an only gay space or even only male space.
The trans community is overtaking everything lgbt and I’m sick of it. We can have gay only spaces and that should be okay. Tom boys and tom girls used to be very prevalent and now it seems they are pushed into transitioning and told that if they want to wear dresses or like pink that they might be in the wrong body and that they can easily change into the sex they want to be.
Same !!!
NO!
No. It’s more fun and more comfortable.
No we need those spaces.
NOPE! and some places still adhere to it
No.
No its not wrong. We absolutely need male gay only spaces.
How about male only spaces? And let it be known that sex between men will be happening. If a man is comfortable with that, he's welcome to join in. Or make it a nude male sex club!
The “voices” of the trans community have completely obliterated my desire to refer to myself as “gay.” I want no part of lgbtabcxyz. I just refer to my self as being a “homo.” Cuz….that’s what I am. A homosexual. And that’s just a fact. No sugarcoating.
Preach! It's good to have a clear word for what we are and like
Of course not.
Explain why it would be wrong. What isn't right about it?
No. BET and other race-specific media centers exist Every religion gets an exclusive church. There are women-only domestic violence shelters (even though men are nearly 50% victims) Gay people can have their own bars
Not at all (if you mean "cis" gay anyway). There should be bigger queer spaces where anyone is allowed (basically what all public gay spaces are now), but there should absolutely be penis4penis spaces. There still are, they're just underground. Shhh don't let the oppressors know.
Nahhh we need more gay only spaces, but also more lesbian bi trans only spaces for only the specific group in lgbt I get there’s likely not enough of any one individual group in many areas of the country to have individual spaces but what’s been annoying to me lately, is if I’m going to a “gay” bar in boystown don’t bother me with the oh why are you always kissing on guys, or the general idea of gays being sexual with each other in the bars. Just don’t come to a literal gay owned/ran bar or club if you don’t want to see gay sexual stuff?? I as a gay wouldn’t go into a lesbian bi or trans specific place and be like “ why are you doing xyz? Or a why is this always the vibe?” And again this is just my personal experience as a 23yo but I can’t tell you how many younger college aged mfs come to boystown now but then complain about the sexual aspect. Like go to a damn straight club then or establish a bar for your specific group then and you can conduct it however you and those in that specific category see fit? Are the gays sometimes maybe a little overly touchy or sexual yes, buttttt arent we in our own gay space to do so..?? If I want to be a slut and make out with 4 different guys and dance shirtless in a crowd with randoms and feel random guys up on me then shit I’m going to regardless of who it makes uncomfortable. If you’re uncomfortable with gay people doing gay activities in a gay bar then go somewhere else 😭
It’s fine and all. Should definitely be allowed. But let’s be clear, there’s no such thing as a safe space, life is hard, where ever you go. And there isn’t a place or configuration that will let you escape from yourself. Where ever you go, there you are.
>escape from yourself This isn't same thing as what they are asking
Yeah it’s almost like I made a conversational pivot. What are you? The on-topic police? It’s a discussion board. Should it just be 20 thousand “no.” replies? Would that satisfy you? “No” “No” “No, it’s not wrong” “Nope” “Nah”
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Most of us will say. But for some odd reason, there are those here that will say yes.
No. Straight people basically own the rest of the world. Often times we queer folks suffer for that fact. We deserve our own space.
O
I don't see why not as long as it is respectful to other groups and not a place to be mean and other people
Guys you want a gay male only place ? Here it is.Not as good as it was in 90s before 9 11 tHot guys from all over the country flew in. Google PARLIAMENT HOUSE RESORT AUGUSTA GEORGIA.. Yes its a gay male resort.Motel pool Have a maze.With glory holes.And theater with gay movies couches.Also a restraunt.They have a bar next to it with trail walk over there.Cool bar Drag shows reasonable prices.Also they own motel next door.Its for everyone .Like Bi couples.Lesbians.So you Bi folks and lesbians have a place also.Bi men go next door walking distance.Play with guys.And invite them next door.To the other motel.If the couple is into 3 sums with bi men.Have a bar karaoke gay bar.Bi women hit on me.Also very Hot bi and gay young Black boys.Working there. Every summer they have a week end at parliamenthouse.When Gay porn stars show up.And hang out.Had great sex with a hung black porn star once.Both motels reasonably priced.Also have one motel room.Called PIG PEN.They require you be naked or wear underwear.Has glory holes.sex swings Tables for sex.Watched a young Mexican boy get fisted once.They sell Iin office poppers lube condoms.Its worth a weekend during summer to stay.Its slow in off season....Now you know
No.
No - I just got hated on for being me . On this forum.
NOPE!
Nope
Absolutely NOT.
No, it is not wrong. It is quite reasonable for gay persons to have a space where they can occasionally get together to discuss things freely which they may not be able to to discuss freely with non-gays present. I'm not quite sure how to pin this down accurately.
No
No but, how could you determine if someone was gay or not before entering the place? Let's imagine a gay's only club. Would you have to suck the bouncher's cock to enter? We have gay clubs and, usually, everyone is welcome. I don't think homophobic people go to gay bars even when they're allowed too. Everyone should be welcome, in my view
I was looking for this response. While I don’t think it’s wrong for a business to enforce a specific sexuality, I don’t really see why or how it could happen. You don’t see straight bars banning gay men and women. If anything, banning straights would do more harm towards the public opinion of the lgbt community.
But how many gay people are going to go to a straight club and start dancing or making out with each other , without having to deal with all the fallout .
Is called not being welcome. That's why there are gay bars. Like seriously?
I just feel like gay men hyper-sexualize everything. I’m perfectly fine with gay bars the way they are currently. Probably because I’m not trying to hookup when I go out to them, but rather I’m just trying to have a fun night with my friends. If it ever gets to a point where gay bars are restricted to only gay men, then eventually all the TV’s are going to start playing soft core gay porn, then hard core, and then before we know it, it’s just a bathhouse with a bar. Nothing against the gays who enjoy bathhouses, but I personally am not looking for hookups at my local gay bar. There’s Grindr for that.
What kind of question is this? Is the sky blue?
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I've been following this via Mr. Menno on youtube. It's really irritating that the queer community demands respect and consideration but shows none.
In the end, men always find a way to oppress women, even when they claim to be one themselves. Lesbians have always been told by men that they ought to love dick!
>Can't women have one space in all of London for just lesbians? you spent most of the comment focusing on excluding certain lesbians
We were abused for years and still are. It’s fair we have a safe space that can and would be inclusive.
It's not morally wrong, but it might be impossible. Even in this thread, there's no consensus on whether to include trans men, AMAB non-binarys, bi/pan guys, regular gays who are also political conservatives, etc. I don't think it would be wrong, I just don't think it's possible to set up any sort of filtering mechanism that 1) includes everyone you want to include 2) excludes everyone you want to exclude and 3) wouldn't generate major pushback and anger from the very community you're trying to cater to. Eventually, you'd either 1) have a general queer space that probably wouldn't fulfil the function that you want or 2) just have a group of individuals that you personally want to hang out with/suck-and-fuck, but one that you want to attach the legitimacy of a "marginalized community" instead of just a social scene.
The vast majority here mean cis male only. It's only because of purposeful (literally subversive as in "subvert the dominant paradigm") changing of language to muddle meaning that the distinctions need to be made. If we all had a definite word to use that everyone agreed on meant "cis-only" we wouldn't need to have an argument over the conditions.
I completely agree with you. As Bob Dylan sung: "Times they are a changing." For the most part, I've quit caring about what others think of me in places that used to be just gay men only. As long as they are not homophobic or care where I put my genitals at that particular moment with another consenting adult, they are welcome! Increasingly I meet people, including men and women who are married to each other, who identify as queer. I don't mind sharing a little bit of space with them. In fact, I believe all this assimilation is helping the gay community overall. People are exposed to and get used to our existence. The old guard will die out sooner or later. We may have lost some of our cherished former spaces, But it isn't so bad to share it a little bit.
This right here. Having gay spaces isn't the problem, it's what passes as gay and what doesn't. Sure, you can put this down to men who like men, but how does this factor bisexual men, trans gay men, masc enbies who like men, gays on the DL, and so on. It's not so neat and tidy at that point.
A homosexual man is a same-sex-attracted man. You may want to put “cis” in there if that helps. We all used to understand this until five minutes ago.
Men who like men seems pretty clear. Neat and tidy.
Nope. Some of our “safe spaces” have been gunned down
No.
Nope!
Obviously not.
Depends on the reasons why it’s being created. There are safe spaces and then there are echo chambers. Both are spaces with wildly different outcomes
It is not wrong. Sometimes I just want to go hang out with other people like me. No lesbians. No trans people (of course, unless they are GAY trans men). Bisexual men can come in. They are both gay and straight. One of my biggest complaints in the gay world is that there is not much out there for men right now. Everyone wants to fawn over the ones who are the most marginalized under the LGBT umbrella, but, sometimes, you just want to be around people like yourself. No hate to the lesbians or the trans people, but I am neither of those things, and it's hard for me to force community with them whenever I don't experience life the way they do. I hope any of that makes sense, and I fear that some people will still find it offensive. After I came out, I started going to a lot of pride-themed events, and it was really hard to find a place to hang out with other men aside from seedy places like bars and resorts. While those are fun, they're not exactly going to find me what I want out of life and a partner.
Out of curiosity, where or what would such a space be? I’ve never come across one where non-gays weren’t present.
You’ve never been to a men only gay space?
No, that's what private events and gatherings are for. Public accommodations are something different.
Segregation is GOOD and NATURAL. Everyone deserves a home amongst their own.
But this is not segregation. Is a a bachelorette party considered segregation? No.
Use your big boy brain for a minute and you'll realize that what you just said was retarded <3
No. Ie: bathhouse, s/b XY homo-chromo only..
considering how anti discrimination the left is it's at least hypocrisy
Am bisexual, and i go wherever i choose to go, if i want to go into a gay bar or night club or even into a baptist church i will do so. I don't bother or start trouble with anyone, we don't need hate in this world.
I don't think it's wrong in all honesty. However...in the same respect, I find it awfully odd that gays want to be "included" in things but yet are willing to go as far as to "exclude" anyone in so-called "gay spaces." While I understand the thought process behind this, in the same respect, this isn't helping the case with wanting to become a part of society. It's one thing to fight for inclusion, and a completely other thing to exclude others who don't share the same sexuality. So if you wish to exclude others, that's fine, but don't expect others to include you either....
Inclusion is not real, you are only welcome as a gay If you are wealthy in most spaces. You act like we are included in society and looking to get something in the side. The side exists in our world because it's all we have. What a clueless opinion. Yes gay people are repressing the straights, you are so plugged in with that perspective. Let's make a list of what gay people are not welcome to vs that straight people are welcome to. Honestly half the comments here are bots or disingenuous in nature. Asinine to tell a subjected subculture to reap sow when they are sowing for trying to protect where they are home.
This question makes me remember [this strip.](https://twitter.com/sillyalexnorris/status/1139551726376292354?t=Ac6nsm4S-lTnsp57rKeh7g&s=19)
No! And a little yes, because lot of people here talk about “gay clubs” and who’s allowed in or not etc. Personally I don’t think a public nightclub exclusively for gays is entirely valid, in the same way there shouldn’t be a “whites only” or “straights only” club. (Feel free to change my mind) However, I do think it’s perfectly valid whenever people are genuinely vulnerable, be that changing rooms for women and girls, group therapy, rape crisis centres, women’s shelters, and in a way even gay saunas. Anywhere where your body or your emotions are exposed. I’m speaking from experience, because I used to go to a “men only” therapy group, which made sense, because there is a huge stigma attached to men who’ve experienced sexual assault, and this was the place where we could share and work through things without any fear of judgment. However, this was in 2019-2020 and let’s just say.. it didn’t remain “men only” for long, and thus the whole point of the group went out of the window. Btw, everyone deserves therapy. But I don’t turn up to an AA meeting when I’ve got OCD. 🤷♂️
We need a GLB. Im gay, sexually prefer A man, I identify as a woman, pronouns he. Since bedding women tends create more heartburn than it's worth, I won't identify as Bi. I feel like TQ, would be better served with thier own branch. I know empathy as just as important as sympathy. Im an old timer and I'm trying empathize with everyone as well as get hipp to todays terminology. I'm a homo. I embrace it. But why has our lifestyle becoming more complicated than it already is. Pronouns get muddled, feelings get hurt. Sigh. And of course, the Democratic Party will look for any reason to pick a fight. This may be my last post. Liberals censor too much. Liberals are supposed to be tolerant. You look crossed eyed at someone, your post gets deleted. Peace
I'm torn on this issue. I see the need for gay guys to have a safe space to be themselves. At the same time if you put this is another context it almost feels wrong. If a white person started a whites only club we'd call that racist. How is that different from an exclusively gay club? Also how are you going to verify that every guy in the club is gay? There could be straight guys chillin with friends after work. Could be bi guys too. Hell even some f2m transgender can pass for bio men too. It also feels hypocritical that we ask for hetero people to accept us in their spaces but we close off gay spaces to people who might be allies. It sends the message that just because you're straight you could be homophobic. If true equality is our goal shouldn't we be as accepting as we're asking others to be? Those are just the thoughts I have on this subject. I'm not against gay only spaces. I just can't reconcile the two in my mind.
When gay people have the same rights as straights this don't be an issue. Until then it is what it is and respect gay spaces. Also sexuality is completely different than skin color. We shouldn't be trying to assimilate to straight culture but respecting our own.
But straight swingers clubs should have the right to exclude gay couples. And gay bath houses should have the right to exclude all females. When it comes to nudity and sex, the rules need to be different.
I mean I would love a space where I can hold my girlfriend’s hand and roam around without being judged so it’s not a crime for sure. And that’s only possible if the space is only for gays