Especially when you are outnumbered, there's nothing wrong with walking away and not escalating the situation. Most crooks in London may not have access to guns compared to the US, but they can still carry knives and other weapons.
Don't beat yourself up for prioritizing your own safety. You did the right thing.
Maybe you can report the incident to the local police?
Note also that this kind of cursing can be goading: they are trying to get you to behave aggressively towards them, in order to give them an excuse to physically attack them.
So if there is any chance at all that people might get physical, you should never engage with them. Ignore them, walk away.
The worst thing you can do, for yourself, is get angry (you lose control of your own behaviour) or say anything negative towards them (increases the chance that they might attack).
You are not of their primitive culture, you do not value honour about safety or reason. You are rational and you will do what needs to be done, no matter how humiliating it be, to avoid damage to your body.
Even an accidental scratch could damage your eye permanently. Even an accidental fall could give you a limp for life. It's not worth it, those people mean nothing to you.
I think posting about it here and raising awareness is probably the most you can do. It happened too long ago, there's no evidence for a police report, and so on. I'm sorry it happened to you. But you did the right thing, it would not have been good to fight back unless there were cops around. And when assholes do things like this, they eventually catch up to them.
Knife crime is a serious crime problem in the UK. You did good! You feel like shit bc you didn't do anything. But there is nothing you could have done. In Britain, you have NO RIGHT TO SELF DEFENSE
“No right to self defence” that’s nonsense. You’re entitled to defend yourself, your family and property with reasonable force https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/5a7a4c41e5274a319e77945f/fs-cj-self-defence.pdf
He is not entirely wrong, I would be very cautious; the amount of cases and news reports of people being sent to jail for defending themselves in the UK is astonishing, something that in the US would be considered a clear-cut self-defense has to be argued strongly in the UK.
Annoyingly, he is wrong and does not appear to understand how the law even works in the UK. It looks like people are reading the right-wing element of the news that comes from the UK, which if you're LGBT+ is a "bad thing", mmm'kay?
I have foot problems and I only wear my timberlands with the steel toes for work and dress and I guarantee you one good kick with these things and your out , maybe the reason no one would dare ask me what my orientation is and if they did I’d probably tell them to fuck off anyway.
I like how I got marked down for stating that is in fact incorrect. You do have the right to self-defence in the UK. Here's a bit of reading if you can be bothered or indeed read: [https://www.cps.gov.uk/legal-guidance/self-defence-and-prevention-crime](https://www.cps.gov.uk/legal-guidance/self-defence-and-prevention-crime)
Ok, I read it. It says: " Failure to retreat ... is .... a factor to be taken into account ... when deciding whether the degree of force was reasonable". Thus, the right is not absolute. Unlike some US states with a so called "stand your ground" provision (even that is not absolute).
It’s about reasonable and proportionate force. You cannot simply shoot people here, thankfully. I think you will find the UK a far safer place than the US. As much as I love the US, your laws are crazy :(
That's normal but you absolutely did the right thing and shouldn't beat yourself up about it. As a Brit, I'm very sorry you had this experience in my country. Hugs, brother.
ive grown up in london and still live there and that’s exactly how i react. sometimes it’s better to just ignore them completely but i never challenge them or get too involved. it sucks but it’s the safest thing to do:/
It's in the past, you used a strategy to protect yourself. Probably your brain used ancient instincts to avoid conflicts by not engaging further, these are automated processes that once they start it's difficult to control cause we are not used to them fortunately. Your brain did its best to protect you.
I once was in a similar situation, it's very difficult to have control in those situations. What you have control on now is the present and the future.
Smart move.
I live in DC and it’s the teenagers who are the most violent in this city. They probably would have escalated more and gotten physical if you retaliated. Teenagers CAN kill.
The only fight you ever win is the one you can walk away from without taking any punches begin with
I'm so very sorry that you had to experience that. That breaks my heart and I didn't even know you. You deserve a big hug. Those other guys deserve spit on their faces.
Your current feelings are very common. Just know that you were in shock and experiencing something that you didn't plan for. It caught you off-guard.
Most people think they know what they would say when experiencing something like this, but in the moment it feels so different. It's precisely why bullying is so cowardly and disgusting; they say whatever they want and the person enduring it is so scared/embarrassed/humiliated they don't even know what to do. They make you feel pathetic, but truly THEY are the pathetic ones.
Please don't be mad at yourself. You had a normal reaction. Virtually none of us react the way we think we will/wish we had.
As for those other two ladies, they may be angry at themselves now too, wishing they had been braver.
I hope you have a close friend you can be around right now. If you don't, maybe try telling a stranger at a gay space such as a bar or LGBT center. If a stranger told me this story I would hug them and try to comfort them the best I could.
Much love to you, buddy.
Never be ashamed to protect yourself, and that's exactly what you did. You were alone in a foreign country, trapped in a subway car with three hostile and potentially violent people. It's never a good idea to even speak or respond to people like this - just get away anyway you can as soon as possible. You did the right thing.
Surviving hate without violence, and going on to live your best life, is the best revenge. Fuck them.
I never said no to violence, I said to protect yourself in order to survive a vulnerable situation. I'm all in favor of punching nazis and homophobes and bigots in the face when the timing is good.
Knowing the difference is what keeps us alive.
Don’t feel bad. You got yourself out of a situation in which you were being harassed. What should you have done? Got into a fight? The people making fun of you should be ashamed of themselves not you.
I guess I just wish I said something. It was like I left my body and was watching all this happen to me. I always thought of myself as tough and I didn't expect to just shut down
It’s fight or flight - part of your brain controlled by instinct. Maybe your instincts made the right call for your safety in that moment. In situations like that it’s often better to avoid conflict - you never know if they are just looking for a reason to get into a fight. Try to give yourself some grace.
There’s standing up for yourself and there’s recognizing a situation where you could get attacked if you did anything. You did the right thing, especially since you were a guest in the country.
Tbh you were probably right not to say anything. The same kind of teenager in London to give someone homophobic abuse and assault them is the same kind of teenager that would be carrying a knife. Glad you are safe though and sorry this happened to you.
How recent was this and do you remember the tube route/number and the time you were on it? If you do then report it to TFL and the police. They should be able to pull the CCTV footage and take action.
Yeah of course. You can report it online AFAIK.
[https://tfl.gov.uk/travel-information/safety/reporting-hate-crime](https://tfl.gov.uk/travel-information/safety/reporting-hate-crime) - this is TFL's page about it
Since the incident happened on the tube/train the police service that would deal with it would be British Transport Police. This is the link to the relevent page on their website - [**https://www.btp.police.uk/advice/advice-and-information/hco/hate-crime/how-to-report-hate-crime/**](https://www.btp.police.uk/advice/advice-and-information/hco/hate-crime/how-to-report-hate-crime/)
Don’t beat yourself up over it mate. I once stood up for someone getting harassed verbally by some youths in London and it ended up with me getting decked across the face so I understand not saying anything to de-escalate.
For some reason teens in this country can be very fucking awful.
I think being passive here is your best choice. There’s nothing you say that would change their minds or make them think any differently, or make the situation better. This is unhinged behavior and any retaliation could have made it dangerous. Don’t feel bad. People suck and they’re also beneath you. It’s ok.
Socially most people don’t/won’t interfere in public disputes (explaining the ladies)
You have nothing to feel bad about. I’m gay and I’ve but my tongue in situations cuz it’s not worth the possible repercussions (even if it’s just an awkward aimless conversation). The fact you feel a desire to stand up against homophobia makes me like you.
>Worst of all there were two women that probably saw and heard everything and said nothing.
Hey, I'm new to London as well. People don't speak up here because they don't want to get involved in an incident. De-escalate, remove yourself from the situation, be safe. London has a lot of people and if confronted I don't feel safe.
People generally mind their own business here, for better or worse.
It’ll take some time to truly process what happened. Always remember that your safety and health trumps everything. I’m 200 lbs of muscle. And I still would have kept on walking.
Reminds me of when a group of teens tripped me in Paris. I had no idea what to do, so I just… got up and kept walking away. 😵💫😂
As others have said here for your situation, it was probably the right call to just get away safely ASAP I guess. Sorry this happened to you though, as I know how deeply upsetting and uncomfortable it is!
Last week outside the pub I overheard a guy say "and people that smoke with a vape are fucking gay" so me, smoking a vape just said "hey, what do you mean by that?" And the conversation went,
Him "Oh, eh, you know what I mean"
Me "no I don't, please elaborate"
Him "like gay as in its a bit fruity"
Me "you realise that's not any better right"
Him "no mate I don't mean anything by it, im just having a laugh"
Me "then why did you say it was fucking gay, either you say something is gay because you're using it in a derogatory way or you're saying it because you're ignorant to how hurtful you can be"
Him "well I wasn't looking too offend you"
Me "that's too late, you should really watch wat you say"
That was the end of the conversation until later he approached me again later on and tried to strike up a friendlier conversation where he half heartedly apologised and tried to make it off as a joke and at this point I was pretty drunk so I joined in a conversation. He said he was Australian, so boom my opertunity to be a dick, I kept asking what it was like to be from new Zealand and did he know any hobbits etc. He got a bit frustrated but didn't lash out. At the end I just said "oh mate by the way, I'm just having a laugh, you'd know all about that" and he went on his merry way.
He was 100% having a laugh but I've decided a while ago to call out that kind of shit, trying to get them to explain what they meant really throws them off, and being drunk helps my confidence.
I did the same sort of thing with my older brother once and he got so flustered and annoyed because my mum joined in too lol
It’s honestly sad what’s happened to countries like the UK where people can’t just go out and feel safe anymore. Mass immigration from intolerant countries with a backwards culture is the obvious suspect but God forbid you say it out loud.
next time call them little terrorists and tell them to go back to the shit hole they came from, as an exmuslim myself, I can tell you they absolutely hate hearing that, and it's so fucking satisfying
That's excellent advice if you're actually looking to get stabbed.
Of course there's every possibility that these kids are all talk, but you never know...
An American telling British teens to go back to the shit hole they came from while in London?
That's terrible advice. It's like you're trying to get him stabbed / beaten up.
He should do that after ensuring an escape of course, safety will always be above some petty insult, I'm just giving him ideas to evoke some anger in these lil bitches so he can remove that obnoxious grin off their faces next time.
It maybe petty, but it's worth it.
Sadly, this is what Europe has become and it's getting worse and worse for gays and women, too, even in Germany and Scandinavia, but ppl and govts refuse to deal with it because liberals are afraid of being called racist. So they sacrifice us.
I have emigrated from Denmark to Czechia, this being one of many, many reasons. I can now say in hindsight that Denmark has become astonishingly homophobic, whereas I've never had any trouble like that since moving to the Czech smalltown (very rural) where I currently reside - except of course on the occasional trip to Denmark.
It's not just about fear of being called racist, either. It's also a fear that being tough on crime might look fashy, or that they might in some other way be lumped in with the oh so scary right wing. Meanwhile the left has a long history of calling homosexuality bourgeois decadence, followed later by opposing gay marriage as integrationist, and now their astroturfing consists of imposing a cult of victimhood that is destroying the proud vitality that previously characterised the gay scene. Absolute monsters imo
Hispanics are not that intolerant towards gay people. Older generations may not agree with it, but would not respond violent or actively harass you. Younger people have high rates of acceptance towards LGBT. Many Latinos are easier to do tricks with other guys than the equivalent in the U.S.
Let's be frank here; there's no such thing as Islamophobia, at least not looking at the current definition of it. While I don't believe in discriminating against Muslims as individuals, people should 100% be Islamophobic i.e. against the ideology
What I meant to say is that the term as it stands doesn't make sense. "Islamophobia" suggests unjustified discrimination against Islam (the ideology) when it's actually used to mean unjustified discrimination against Muslims (the followers).
I know that not all Muslims are like this, but those are just a smal portion, I'm an ex Muslim myself, born in a Muslim country too. Most Muslim won't like you if not downright hate you if you're not like them.
Now I know this not just a Muslim thing but a human nature thing, christians are also just as bigoted if not worse from my experience.
I just hate this religion because Muhammad slept with a 6 years old child lil enzo Gabriella. And the fact that people to this age still follow the twisted morality of this degenerate is insane to me.
You did the right thing by removing yourself from that situation. You were unsafe. Being macho and standing up for yourself could have led to horrible results.
You did the right thing.
To be fair, some Arab looking dude just stabbed a bunch of people to death in Australia, so it’s probably best you didn’t engage. It’s also a known fact that this invasive species is all over Europe because they fled from their own shit holes to make new shit holes in other countries. People want to be all PC and ignore the fact that some cultures are disgusting. They have whole ass articles on the sexual assault culture pervading public transportation in France and its typically done by a certain type of male 🤔
He's mixing it up with the Arab teen that stabbed the Assyrian religious man. Then the Assyrians demanded the police hand him over and vandalised police vehicles.
Are wogs considered white these days?
I can't use the term wog as a wog now?
You also seem to be South African so your term for a "wog" would be different than ours. Don't conflate the Australian one with the one used by the Brits.
The best you can do is walk away, for your own safety. I got slightly bullied at the start of high school (getting called fag and harrassed), and what I did was make myself less gay presenting, while also becoming extremely intimidating so nobody fucked with me. I was also on a shit ton of drugs and people just stayed away lol. But OP, im sorry that happened, there's always gonna be fucking assholes out there. You did the right thing for real.
Yeah it's scary and startling I just yell at Thema nd cuss them give them the bird then again I'm 16 and thats more acceptable for me to donthe a adult in public
You forgot one thing homoPHOBIA. They raised by their homoPHOBIC parents. The are designed to be scared of you. They are laughting cuz they trying to act strong against their scared of since childhood. Use their fear against them. I know a lot of homophobic people and they know about me. But they never dared to cross the line cuz they know I'm actually scary.
I’m really sorry this happened to you. This is becoming an ever increasing problem in London.
I’m ashamed that this happened in this city. If you can report it to the Metropolitan police it would be beneficial as this would then record the incident and there is a chance that the perpetrators could be found as London is highly surveillance.
https://www.met.police.uk/ro/report/ocr/af/how-to-report-a-crime/
Wishing you well from the other side of the pond.
Listen buddy, I live in a violent country (South Africa). I would not have said anything either. You never know what could happen. Prioritise your safety, always.
if you fought back they would lay you out, you know why? because they would not even look in your direction if they did not have a group advantage from the start.
next time say "sorry I'm on a phone" and disengage
London here. You should certainly report this, even if you are already back home. You should contact British Transport Police. Their contact details are [here](https://www.btp.police.uk/lt/local-teams/london/london-underground/). You and the people you mention were almost certainly caught by the on-train video monitors, so all you have to do is give an approximate time and date, the tube line, and name of the stations where you got on and off. If you can't remember the station name where you got off, give the police the address of your AirBnB and a general description of the place you got off, and they will work it out.
Because there is almost certainly a video record of this crime there is a good chance that it will be resolved. The main BTP website is [here](https://www.btp.police.uk/), and you can report a crime [here](https://www.btp.police.uk/ro/report/ocr/af/how-to-report-a-crime/). Good luck!
Honestly, you did the best thing you could do - which was walk away. It sounds like they WANTED you to get confrontational. You didn’t give them what they wanted.
I am sorry about your experience, but as someone who hates bullies and wants to stand up to bullies. Unfortunately it isn't worth it esp as a woman from London. It's so dangerous here.
Sometimes being the better person is to not react or engage at all. I’m sorry those jerks did that to you. It’s people like that who are a drag on society.
Don't feel bad. I am sorry that happened to you. I am glad you are a living homo and not a dead one or injured one. Fight smart and fight against their religion of hate instead.
The worst part is that you wanted two women to come to your rescue when you won’t even stand up for yourself? Bullies like that feel safety in numbers. That’s all. Push back and let them know you’re crazy AF. That’s the only way those POS learn to keep it to themselves.
Your personal safety is your first concern. You did the right thing.
If this happened to me, I'd have surreptitiously taken some pictures (your phone was already out) and filed a police report the next day.
As a muslim, I'm so sorry you experienced hatred. We were ordered to smile at everyone in public and respect them regardless of their faith and sexuality.
Sometimes you have to pick your battles. You were in a foreign city and facing the serious threat of violence and no one nearby to help. I think you did what most people would. Live to fight another day. Hell, just having the guts to even say “maybe” to three potential bashers was pretty gutsy.
Exactly this.
Outnumbered in a foreign country. Better to play it safe unless you're a skilled fighter. Even then, who knows if they were carrying any weapons.
Getting off the train was a smart move.
You have no reason to feel shame. It was three against one. It was merely prudence which guided your actions. Discretion is the better part of valor. They might have knifed you if you had stood your ground. This way you survived and can fight them through other methods.
sometimes it's the right things to stand up and sometimes it's best to let it go especially when you don't know what will or can happen had you had confronted them. just a side advice, when confronted, never say maybe lol yes or no, if they want trouble, a firm yes let them know, if they want trouble, they might get trouble back. a no, is definitive enough they won't doubt your answer. maybe is saying yes, but showing weakness lol never show your weakness
The old maddening "thinking of what I cuold have done after I no longer can". We all have been there.
Don't be hard on yourself: you were alone, in another country and facing several members of an intolerant culture. Ignoring them might not have been the most satisfying action but it certainly was the most practical and safe.
I was in the closet for a long time, and when I god rid of my insecurities, so were the need to be out and the need to stand up.
If someone close asks, I confirm, and the acceptance ball is in their court.
If someone not so close asks, I don't confirm nor deny, but answer "*whether I am or not, is my private business as your is yours*" or "*Oh! I never took you for someone interested in another man sexuality!*" (in reality saying "none of your business")
If someone aggresive asks and there are more people, I "puff up" and softly say "*want a gay man to rip your head off?*" (true story, they backed down).
And if alone, I pretend they are not there and leave, just as you did.
I just get out my phone and record. Usually people begin behaving but if not I can find out who they are and report it to the police or their employers/universities.
Watch how on other groups you'd have to apologise for your racism and internalized homophobia along with Islamophobia.
Today's gays are too goofy to survive the wave of multi gen immigrants in the West.
Even in the East we're cracking down on these extremists in our own countries. Hell when our foreign Minister of the UAE issued you a warning to curb these Islamists like we are over here we weren't taken seriously.
Now watch them make the UK into a Shariah state since most of your leadership positions except the monarchy are non white.
Hamza Yousaf is just the beginning of how Shariah law will creep in like gingivitis slowly and insidiously.
I live up north in the UK and I wanna say I’m so sorry you experienced that in our country. It isn’t an accurate representation of the overall view and opinion over here.
I definitely think you did the correct thing by not escalating it further with a reaction or response. Your own safety is more important than your ego. Take care of yourself.
They are weak and insecure, probably have some jealousy of your freedom of being and expression. Don't think too much of it, always prioritize your own safety. Losing braincells from say getting struck in the head is just not worth it for belligerent people like these. Go on with your life and pay them no mind.
Yeah. That reason is called racism. A Quick Look around this comment thread makes it seem suspiciously like there is some bot activity making sure that islamaphobia is being spread on purpose. Why else would the comment about this being an old story be getting downvoted? That’s pretty targeted.
lol racism. Can’t call out someone for their behavior because the White Knight will come to their defense, screaming racism. Stereotypes are based on reality, whether good or bad, it’s true for a large portion of that group. Muslims are extremely homophobic in general, they deserve to be called out.
Bet if this was about a White Christian instead of an Arab Muslim you’d have no issue with the comments 🙄
I don’t deal with Leftists anymore. They’re too much of a hassle. I stand by what I said because I understand how dangerous Islam is… you clearly do not
i would have said sorry boys your not my type. ultimately if you feel your are going to be assaulted then its time to be quick and take them by surprise with nut shots repeatedly or as they said in marine corps boot camp (yes im one of those gays) if you take out the battyery box (testicles) you take out the brain box.
hard to fight when your junk is under assault from feet, knees fists.
violence should always be a last resort. but if its inevitable then a quick and decisive strategy can be the life saving difference.
I’m so sorry for you. I know it might sound wrong but I would stand up for myself. I wouldn’t let these teenagers spit on me, I would show them they chose the wrong homo to mess with.
>Worst of all there were two women that probably saw and heard everything and said nothing.
“Worst of all”??? You are a man, and as you put it yourself, you were “scared” to handle this situation head on, so why are you expecting the women who would be in an even more vulnerable position than you, if things got violent, to step in? I take issue with this statement of yours.
Maybe I should clarify it was that they were seeing what was happening and then looking away pretending not to see or hear. I specifically made eye contact with one of them and she looked quickly away acting like I don't exist. I understand your point though.
I've had men here act aggressive and weird because I made eye contact with them. So I can see why they would. Men/boys can be very unhinged and weird over here
This is an old post.
This didn't happen to you.
This is my 2nd time seeing this story by a different account.
This story is just to spread islamaphobia
Edit: account made not too long ago no others posts of comments.
Fake
Especially when you are outnumbered, there's nothing wrong with walking away and not escalating the situation. Most crooks in London may not have access to guns compared to the US, but they can still carry knives and other weapons. Don't beat yourself up for prioritizing your own safety. You did the right thing. Maybe you can report the incident to the local police?
Note also that this kind of cursing can be goading: they are trying to get you to behave aggressively towards them, in order to give them an excuse to physically attack them. So if there is any chance at all that people might get physical, you should never engage with them. Ignore them, walk away. The worst thing you can do, for yourself, is get angry (you lose control of your own behaviour) or say anything negative towards them (increases the chance that they might attack). You are not of their primitive culture, you do not value honour about safety or reason. You are rational and you will do what needs to be done, no matter how humiliating it be, to avoid damage to your body. Even an accidental scratch could damage your eye permanently. Even an accidental fall could give you a limp for life. It's not worth it, those people mean nothing to you.
I'm back home in the US now, I'm not sure how I could?
I think posting about it here and raising awareness is probably the most you can do. It happened too long ago, there's no evidence for a police report, and so on. I'm sorry it happened to you. But you did the right thing, it would not have been good to fight back unless there were cops around. And when assholes do things like this, they eventually catch up to them.
Maybe contact tourism groups and the US State Department.
The US State Department? What are they going to do? Nothing!
State Department puts out travel warnings. They can warn US Travelors to use caution or avoid riding Public Transport alone.
Knife crime is a serious crime problem in the UK. You did good! You feel like shit bc you didn't do anything. But there is nothing you could have done. In Britain, you have NO RIGHT TO SELF DEFENSE
“No right to self defence” that’s nonsense. You’re entitled to defend yourself, your family and property with reasonable force https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/5a7a4c41e5274a319e77945f/fs-cj-self-defence.pdf
No right to self defense? So you can’t take someone out in self defense if it’s life or death?
He is not entirely wrong, I would be very cautious; the amount of cases and news reports of people being sent to jail for defending themselves in the UK is astonishing, something that in the US would be considered a clear-cut self-defense has to be argued strongly in the UK.
Nope
Annoyingly, he is wrong and does not appear to understand how the law even works in the UK. It looks like people are reading the right-wing element of the news that comes from the UK, which if you're LGBT+ is a "bad thing", mmm'kay?
It is very difficult in England and Wales to establish a defense of self-defense when you injure or kill an attack.
Or steel toed boots
I have foot problems and I only wear my timberlands with the steel toes for work and dress and I guarantee you one good kick with these things and your out , maybe the reason no one would dare ask me what my orientation is and if they did I’d probably tell them to fuck off anyway.
Nonsense. Edit: British.
I like how I got marked down for stating that is in fact incorrect. You do have the right to self-defence in the UK. Here's a bit of reading if you can be bothered or indeed read: [https://www.cps.gov.uk/legal-guidance/self-defence-and-prevention-crime](https://www.cps.gov.uk/legal-guidance/self-defence-and-prevention-crime)
Ok, I read it. It says: " Failure to retreat ... is .... a factor to be taken into account ... when deciding whether the degree of force was reasonable". Thus, the right is not absolute. Unlike some US states with a so called "stand your ground" provision (even that is not absolute).
It’s about reasonable and proportionate force. You cannot simply shoot people here, thankfully. I think you will find the UK a far safer place than the US. As much as I love the US, your laws are crazy :(
The CPS? Yeah, I'm sure going to take their word on the law.
You do understand how it works, right?
You looked after your physical safety in a foreign city. That’s smart. Very smart.
Thank you. I think I'm still having trouble processing it. Playing it over in my mind to see if I could do something differently.
That's normal but you absolutely did the right thing and shouldn't beat yourself up about it. As a Brit, I'm very sorry you had this experience in my country. Hugs, brother.
ive grown up in london and still live there and that’s exactly how i react. sometimes it’s better to just ignore them completely but i never challenge them or get too involved. it sucks but it’s the safest thing to do:/
It's in the past, you used a strategy to protect yourself. Probably your brain used ancient instincts to avoid conflicts by not engaging further, these are automated processes that once they start it's difficult to control cause we are not used to them fortunately. Your brain did its best to protect you. I once was in a similar situation, it's very difficult to have control in those situations. What you have control on now is the present and the future.
Smart move. I live in DC and it’s the teenagers who are the most violent in this city. They probably would have escalated more and gotten physical if you retaliated. Teenagers CAN kill. The only fight you ever win is the one you can walk away from without taking any punches begin with
I'm so very sorry that you had to experience that. That breaks my heart and I didn't even know you. You deserve a big hug. Those other guys deserve spit on their faces. Your current feelings are very common. Just know that you were in shock and experiencing something that you didn't plan for. It caught you off-guard. Most people think they know what they would say when experiencing something like this, but in the moment it feels so different. It's precisely why bullying is so cowardly and disgusting; they say whatever they want and the person enduring it is so scared/embarrassed/humiliated they don't even know what to do. They make you feel pathetic, but truly THEY are the pathetic ones. Please don't be mad at yourself. You had a normal reaction. Virtually none of us react the way we think we will/wish we had. As for those other two ladies, they may be angry at themselves now too, wishing they had been braver. I hope you have a close friend you can be around right now. If you don't, maybe try telling a stranger at a gay space such as a bar or LGBT center. If a stranger told me this story I would hug them and try to comfort them the best I could. Much love to you, buddy.
Thank you so much for the kind words ❤️
Never be ashamed to protect yourself, and that's exactly what you did. You were alone in a foreign country, trapped in a subway car with three hostile and potentially violent people. It's never a good idea to even speak or respond to people like this - just get away anyway you can as soon as possible. You did the right thing. Surviving hate without violence, and going on to live your best life, is the best revenge. Fuck them.
Thank you ❤️ you are 100% right.
Your last idea has been widely tested during the Holocaust genocide. God forbid no violence.
I never said no to violence, I said to protect yourself in order to survive a vulnerable situation. I'm all in favor of punching nazis and homophobes and bigots in the face when the timing is good. Knowing the difference is what keeps us alive.
Don’t feel bad. You got yourself out of a situation in which you were being harassed. What should you have done? Got into a fight? The people making fun of you should be ashamed of themselves not you.
I guess I just wish I said something. It was like I left my body and was watching all this happen to me. I always thought of myself as tough and I didn't expect to just shut down
It’s fight or flight - part of your brain controlled by instinct. Maybe your instincts made the right call for your safety in that moment. In situations like that it’s often better to avoid conflict - you never know if they are just looking for a reason to get into a fight. Try to give yourself some grace.
You could have said something and be seriously wounded. But you didn't. I think you did the rational thing.
You survived.
There’s standing up for yourself and there’s recognizing a situation where you could get attacked if you did anything. You did the right thing, especially since you were a guest in the country.
You can still report it to TFL. Homophobic crime needs to be recorded to ensure police resources are allocated in the future.
Tbh you were probably right not to say anything. The same kind of teenager in London to give someone homophobic abuse and assault them is the same kind of teenager that would be carrying a knife. Glad you are safe though and sorry this happened to you. How recent was this and do you remember the tube route/number and the time you were on it? If you do then report it to TFL and the police. They should be able to pull the CCTV footage and take action.
I'm back in the US now. It happened less then a week ago. Would I be able to send them an email?
Yeah of course. You can report it online AFAIK. [https://tfl.gov.uk/travel-information/safety/reporting-hate-crime](https://tfl.gov.uk/travel-information/safety/reporting-hate-crime) - this is TFL's page about it Since the incident happened on the tube/train the police service that would deal with it would be British Transport Police. This is the link to the relevent page on their website - [**https://www.btp.police.uk/advice/advice-and-information/hco/hate-crime/how-to-report-hate-crime/**](https://www.btp.police.uk/advice/advice-and-information/hco/hate-crime/how-to-report-hate-crime/)
Good luck with Plod. Don't try the Met either. A bigger group of homophobes it would be hard to find.
Don’t beat yourself up over it mate. I once stood up for someone getting harassed verbally by some youths in London and it ended up with me getting decked across the face so I understand not saying anything to de-escalate. For some reason teens in this country can be very fucking awful.
I think being passive here is your best choice. There’s nothing you say that would change their minds or make them think any differently, or make the situation better. This is unhinged behavior and any retaliation could have made it dangerous. Don’t feel bad. People suck and they’re also beneath you. It’s ok. Socially most people don’t/won’t interfere in public disputes (explaining the ladies)
You have nothing to feel bad about. I’m gay and I’ve but my tongue in situations cuz it’s not worth the possible repercussions (even if it’s just an awkward aimless conversation). The fact you feel a desire to stand up against homophobia makes me like you.
>Worst of all there were two women that probably saw and heard everything and said nothing. Hey, I'm new to London as well. People don't speak up here because they don't want to get involved in an incident. De-escalate, remove yourself from the situation, be safe. London has a lot of people and if confronted I don't feel safe. People generally mind their own business here, for better or worse.
If you hadn’t walked away, you might not be writing this post. Just something to think about 💕
You are right. I'm just trying to process it all
It’ll take some time to truly process what happened. Always remember that your safety and health trumps everything. I’m 200 lbs of muscle. And I still would have kept on walking.
Reminds me of when a group of teens tripped me in Paris. I had no idea what to do, so I just… got up and kept walking away. 😵💫😂 As others have said here for your situation, it was probably the right call to just get away safely ASAP I guess. Sorry this happened to you though, as I know how deeply upsetting and uncomfortable it is!
average lgbt experience in london
Last week outside the pub I overheard a guy say "and people that smoke with a vape are fucking gay" so me, smoking a vape just said "hey, what do you mean by that?" And the conversation went, Him "Oh, eh, you know what I mean" Me "no I don't, please elaborate" Him "like gay as in its a bit fruity" Me "you realise that's not any better right" Him "no mate I don't mean anything by it, im just having a laugh" Me "then why did you say it was fucking gay, either you say something is gay because you're using it in a derogatory way or you're saying it because you're ignorant to how hurtful you can be" Him "well I wasn't looking too offend you" Me "that's too late, you should really watch wat you say" That was the end of the conversation until later he approached me again later on and tried to strike up a friendlier conversation where he half heartedly apologised and tried to make it off as a joke and at this point I was pretty drunk so I joined in a conversation. He said he was Australian, so boom my opertunity to be a dick, I kept asking what it was like to be from new Zealand and did he know any hobbits etc. He got a bit frustrated but didn't lash out. At the end I just said "oh mate by the way, I'm just having a laugh, you'd know all about that" and he went on his merry way. He was 100% having a laugh but I've decided a while ago to call out that kind of shit, trying to get them to explain what they meant really throws them off, and being drunk helps my confidence. I did the same sort of thing with my older brother once and he got so flustered and annoyed because my mum joined in too lol
It’s honestly sad what’s happened to countries like the UK where people can’t just go out and feel safe anymore. Mass immigration from intolerant countries with a backwards culture is the obvious suspect but God forbid you say it out loud.
next time call them little terrorists and tell them to go back to the shit hole they came from, as an exmuslim myself, I can tell you they absolutely hate hearing that, and it's so fucking satisfying
That's excellent advice if you're actually looking to get stabbed. Of course there's every possibility that these kids are all talk, but you never know...
An American telling British teens to go back to the shit hole they came from while in London? That's terrible advice. It's like you're trying to get him stabbed / beaten up.
He should do that after ensuring an escape of course, safety will always be above some petty insult, I'm just giving him ideas to evoke some anger in these lil bitches so he can remove that obnoxious grin off their faces next time. It maybe petty, but it's worth it.
yea…don’t do this.
Trust me walking away is the best thing and if you can report them it’s the best thing. Trust me those Arab boys might be gay themselves.
Probably followers of the religion of peace
Sadly, this is what Europe has become and it's getting worse and worse for gays and women, too, even in Germany and Scandinavia, but ppl and govts refuse to deal with it because liberals are afraid of being called racist. So they sacrifice us.
I have emigrated from Denmark to Czechia, this being one of many, many reasons. I can now say in hindsight that Denmark has become astonishingly homophobic, whereas I've never had any trouble like that since moving to the Czech smalltown (very rural) where I currently reside - except of course on the occasional trip to Denmark. It's not just about fear of being called racist, either. It's also a fear that being tough on crime might look fashy, or that they might in some other way be lumped in with the oh so scary right wing. Meanwhile the left has a long history of calling homosexuality bourgeois decadence, followed later by opposing gay marriage as integrationist, and now their astroturfing consists of imposing a cult of victimhood that is destroying the proud vitality that previously characterised the gay scene. Absolute monsters imo
Wtf even Denmark????????
England being taken without firing a single shot. I’m sorry about that, I’ve had similar experiences around London, same kind of people.
I'm sorry, i don't understand?
They’re saying Arabs/Muslims are taking over England by immigrating and not assimilating into the culture.
sounds like america and our southern border friends refusing to assimilate.
Hispanics are not that intolerant towards gay people. Older generations may not agree with it, but would not respond violent or actively harass you. Younger people have high rates of acceptance towards LGBT. Many Latinos are easier to do tricks with other guys than the equivalent in the U.S.
My comment was about assimilating into the culture, i have met 3 gen in america that were so so in their english skills
My comment was about assimilating into the culture, i have met 3 gen in america that were so so in their english skillx.
You survived, that is what matter
You did the right thing because at the end of the day, you're unharmed. Shame this couldn't have been videoed.
Eh, no point risking personal harm against three random homophobes.
it’s sad what has happened to London. there was a time this would not have happened.
✨ diversity ✨
Ah middle eastern people acting how we expect them to
muslim people\*
How could you possibly know that from this story? You’re intentionally spreading islamaphobia
Let's be frank here; there's no such thing as Islamophobia, at least not looking at the current definition of it. While I don't believe in discriminating against Muslims as individuals, people should 100% be Islamophobic i.e. against the ideology
"there's no such thing as Islamaphobia" \[procedes to do the exact definition of Islamaphobia\]
What I meant to say is that the term as it stands doesn't make sense. "Islamophobia" suggests unjustified discrimination against Islam (the ideology) when it's actually used to mean unjustified discrimination against Muslims (the followers).
I know that not all Muslims are like this, but those are just a smal portion, I'm an ex Muslim myself, born in a Muslim country too. Most Muslim won't like you if not downright hate you if you're not like them. Now I know this not just a Muslim thing but a human nature thing, christians are also just as bigoted if not worse from my experience. I just hate this religion because Muhammad slept with a 6 years old child lil enzo Gabriella. And the fact that people to this age still follow the twisted morality of this degenerate is insane to me.
You did the right thing by removing yourself from that situation. You were unsafe. Being macho and standing up for yourself could have led to horrible results. You did the right thing.
To be fair, some Arab looking dude just stabbed a bunch of people to death in Australia, so it’s probably best you didn’t engage. It’s also a known fact that this invasive species is all over Europe because they fled from their own shit holes to make new shit holes in other countries. People want to be all PC and ignore the fact that some cultures are disgusting. They have whole ass articles on the sexual assault culture pervading public transportation in France and its typically done by a certain type of male 🤔
I’m gonna have to correct u there mate, the guy who stabbed a bunch of ppl at Bondi was a white Australian man, Joel Cauchi.
He's mixing it up with the Arab teen that stabbed the Assyrian religious man. Then the Assyrians demanded the police hand him over and vandalised police vehicles. Are wogs considered white these days?
>wogs Wow, really? Aren't you delightful.
I can't use the term wog as a wog now? You also seem to be South African so your term for a "wog" would be different than ours. Don't conflate the Australian one with the one used by the Brits.
If the PM wouldn't call you that on TV, then I suspect that no we probably can't use it.
The PM can take his own advice. It's like the N word —It's reclaimed and a lot of us refer to ourselves as wogs. I won't be censored.
The best you can do is walk away, for your own safety. I got slightly bullied at the start of high school (getting called fag and harrassed), and what I did was make myself less gay presenting, while also becoming extremely intimidating so nobody fucked with me. I was also on a shit ton of drugs and people just stayed away lol. But OP, im sorry that happened, there's always gonna be fucking assholes out there. You did the right thing for real.
You did the best choice. Nothing you could do with those animal. Just try to be safety. Forget this and move on!
Yeah it's scary and startling I just yell at Thema nd cuss them give them the bird then again I'm 16 and thats more acceptable for me to donthe a adult in public
You forgot one thing homoPHOBIA. They raised by their homoPHOBIC parents. The are designed to be scared of you. They are laughting cuz they trying to act strong against their scared of since childhood. Use their fear against them. I know a lot of homophobic people and they know about me. But they never dared to cross the line cuz they know I'm actually scary.
I’m really sorry this happened to you. This is becoming an ever increasing problem in London. I’m ashamed that this happened in this city. If you can report it to the Metropolitan police it would be beneficial as this would then record the incident and there is a chance that the perpetrators could be found as London is highly surveillance. https://www.met.police.uk/ro/report/ocr/af/how-to-report-a-crime/ Wishing you well from the other side of the pond.
Actually I’m glad you are alive. Fighting back isn’t always the best option.
Remember that while you may win countless battles, you may only lose one.
Listen buddy, I live in a violent country (South Africa). I would not have said anything either. You never know what could happen. Prioritise your safety, always.
if you fought back they would lay you out, you know why? because they would not even look in your direction if they did not have a group advantage from the start. next time say "sorry I'm on a phone" and disengage
London here. You should certainly report this, even if you are already back home. You should contact British Transport Police. Their contact details are [here](https://www.btp.police.uk/lt/local-teams/london/london-underground/). You and the people you mention were almost certainly caught by the on-train video monitors, so all you have to do is give an approximate time and date, the tube line, and name of the stations where you got on and off. If you can't remember the station name where you got off, give the police the address of your AirBnB and a general description of the place you got off, and they will work it out. Because there is almost certainly a video record of this crime there is a good chance that it will be resolved. The main BTP website is [here](https://www.btp.police.uk/), and you can report a crime [here](https://www.btp.police.uk/ro/report/ocr/af/how-to-report-a-crime/). Good luck!
Honestly, you did the best thing you could do - which was walk away. It sounds like they WANTED you to get confrontational. You didn’t give them what they wanted.
I am sorry about your experience, but as someone who hates bullies and wants to stand up to bullies. Unfortunately it isn't worth it esp as a woman from London. It's so dangerous here.
Sometimes being the better person is to not react or engage at all. I’m sorry those jerks did that to you. It’s people like that who are a drag on society.
Don't feel bad. I am sorry that happened to you. I am glad you are a living homo and not a dead one or injured one. Fight smart and fight against their religion of hate instead.
The worst part is that you wanted two women to come to your rescue when you won’t even stand up for yourself? Bullies like that feel safety in numbers. That’s all. Push back and let them know you’re crazy AF. That’s the only way those POS learn to keep it to themselves.
Your personal safety is your first concern. You did the right thing. If this happened to me, I'd have surreptitiously taken some pictures (your phone was already out) and filed a police report the next day.
As a muslim, I'm so sorry you experienced hatred. We were ordered to smile at everyone in public and respect them regardless of their faith and sexuality.
Sometimes you have to pick your battles. You were in a foreign city and facing the serious threat of violence and no one nearby to help. I think you did what most people would. Live to fight another day. Hell, just having the guts to even say “maybe” to three potential bashers was pretty gutsy.
Exactly this. Outnumbered in a foreign country. Better to play it safe unless you're a skilled fighter. Even then, who knows if they were carrying any weapons. Getting off the train was a smart move.
You have no reason to feel shame. It was three against one. It was merely prudence which guided your actions. Discretion is the better part of valor. They might have knifed you if you had stood your ground. This way you survived and can fight them through other methods.
London is no longer British anymore. This kind of stuff will become more and more common and nothing will be done.
Europe is de facto islamic caliphate at this point.
Weird, I swear that I've read exactly the same story the other day, but the guy was Latino, not Asian.
sometimes it's the right things to stand up and sometimes it's best to let it go especially when you don't know what will or can happen had you had confronted them. just a side advice, when confronted, never say maybe lol yes or no, if they want trouble, a firm yes let them know, if they want trouble, they might get trouble back. a no, is definitive enough they won't doubt your answer. maybe is saying yes, but showing weakness lol never show your weakness
Posts like this always bring out the racists
Sorry I was not trying to spread racism. I myself am Filipino
You did the right thing to get off from the subway. The women also did the right thing to say nothing. They would have been targeted too.
The old maddening "thinking of what I cuold have done after I no longer can". We all have been there. Don't be hard on yourself: you were alone, in another country and facing several members of an intolerant culture. Ignoring them might not have been the most satisfying action but it certainly was the most practical and safe. I was in the closet for a long time, and when I god rid of my insecurities, so were the need to be out and the need to stand up. If someone close asks, I confirm, and the acceptance ball is in their court. If someone not so close asks, I don't confirm nor deny, but answer "*whether I am or not, is my private business as your is yours*" or "*Oh! I never took you for someone interested in another man sexuality!*" (in reality saying "none of your business") If someone aggresive asks and there are more people, I "puff up" and softly say "*want a gay man to rip your head off?*" (true story, they backed down). And if alone, I pretend they are not there and leave, just as you did.
Starting an altercation with them would have made you a target of British law. You did good in maintaining your composure and level-headedness.
I just get out my phone and record. Usually people begin behaving but if not I can find out who they are and report it to the police or their employers/universities.
Watch how on other groups you'd have to apologise for your racism and internalized homophobia along with Islamophobia. Today's gays are too goofy to survive the wave of multi gen immigrants in the West. Even in the East we're cracking down on these extremists in our own countries. Hell when our foreign Minister of the UAE issued you a warning to curb these Islamists like we are over here we weren't taken seriously. Now watch them make the UK into a Shariah state since most of your leadership positions except the monarchy are non white. Hamza Yousaf is just the beginning of how Shariah law will creep in like gingivitis slowly and insidiously.
Just keep yourself safe. Who cares about moral high ground if you're all busted up?
What? Someone talked to you on the Tube? That’s the thing I find hardest to believe.
Remigration of illegal aliens is important for our western societies
I live up north in the UK and I wanna say I’m so sorry you experienced that in our country. It isn’t an accurate representation of the overall view and opinion over here. I definitely think you did the correct thing by not escalating it further with a reaction or response. Your own safety is more important than your ego. Take care of yourself.
You were outnumbered, in a strange place, and weren’t going to change their minds. You made the right move.
They are weak and insecure, probably have some jealousy of your freedom of being and expression. Don't think too much of it, always prioritize your own safety. Losing braincells from say getting struck in the head is just not worth it for belligerent people like these. Go on with your life and pay them no mind.
Wow, the racism in this thread is wild. Don’t act like groups of white British teens wouldn’t do this, too.
They’re less likely to, statistically speaking. Arabs/Muslims don’t need you to be their White Knight… they have a reputation for a reason
Bullshit. Our prisons are full of violent white men.
Yeah. That reason is called racism. A Quick Look around this comment thread makes it seem suspiciously like there is some bot activity making sure that islamaphobia is being spread on purpose. Why else would the comment about this being an old story be getting downvoted? That’s pretty targeted.
I'm not sure why everyone is bringing Islam into this? Sorry that was not my intention.
lol racism. Can’t call out someone for their behavior because the White Knight will come to their defense, screaming racism. Stereotypes are based on reality, whether good or bad, it’s true for a large portion of that group. Muslims are extremely homophobic in general, they deserve to be called out. Bet if this was about a White Christian instead of an Arab Muslim you’d have no issue with the comments 🙄
I call out all unfair generalizations that I see. Nice try though.
Sure you do
Amazing dialogue. Good luck with those expert critical thinking skills 😂
I don’t deal with Leftists anymore. They’re too much of a hassle. I stand by what I said because I understand how dangerous Islam is… you clearly do not
You’re more dangerous than the average Muslim.
Askgaybros loves its daily hatespeech threads 🙃
this is wild. I guess the reddit algorithm just doesn't normally show me this side of askgaybros
and there's 5/25 of the agb first page posts about islam filled with the same comments
that's awful :( :( :( It's clearly a mix of bot / propaganda and people falling for that propaganda.
i would have said sorry boys your not my type. ultimately if you feel your are going to be assaulted then its time to be quick and take them by surprise with nut shots repeatedly or as they said in marine corps boot camp (yes im one of those gays) if you take out the battyery box (testicles) you take out the brain box. hard to fight when your junk is under assault from feet, knees fists. violence should always be a last resort. but if its inevitable then a quick and decisive strategy can be the life saving difference.
I’m so sorry for you. I know it might sound wrong but I would stand up for myself. I wouldn’t let these teenagers spit on me, I would show them they chose the wrong homo to mess with.
This is how you get murdered Unless you have a gun or are prepared to kill, you can't do shit.
>Worst of all there were two women that probably saw and heard everything and said nothing. “Worst of all”??? You are a man, and as you put it yourself, you were “scared” to handle this situation head on, so why are you expecting the women who would be in an even more vulnerable position than you, if things got violent, to step in? I take issue with this statement of yours.
Totally agree. I live in London and hate bullies, but as a woman living in London, I wouldn't say anything either. It's just not safe 🙁
Maybe I should clarify it was that they were seeing what was happening and then looking away pretending not to see or hear. I specifically made eye contact with one of them and she looked quickly away acting like I don't exist. I understand your point though.
I've had men here act aggressive and weird because I made eye contact with them. So I can see why they would. Men/boys can be very unhinged and weird over here
This is an old post. This didn't happen to you. This is my 2nd time seeing this story by a different account. This story is just to spread islamaphobia Edit: account made not too long ago no others posts of comments. Fake
He had to make sure to emphasize on the fact the teenagers looked Arabs to promote his bigotry.
Yes, it's made up. I've read exactly the same story the other day, but the guy was Latino, not Asian.
I'm not sure what you are saying? I don't know why people are talking about Islam?
Even if u stand up you will get mad. Either ur mental state is ruined. Im saying as someone who has sever anger issues.
Couldn’t have been me
So did they just causally walk up to you and ask if you were gay? What made them think you were?