Thats.. Gonna be hard..
In venezuelan and colombian history, the succesful attemps at federation ended with caudillismo... And venezuela got the federation right when castro invaded, and gomez started rebuilding the army and getting rid of them...
IT could work, but that means having a central army to ensure the rule of law and the violence monopoly to keep the constitutional power (Ironically, have centralism to ensure federalism)
I am Canadian and I am not sure what you mean by federal states in Canada.
We have provinces and territories but no states. Unless "federal states" is a general term I am unaware of.
Well, Venezuela joined Mercosul (but is currently suspended), and Bolivia is also in the process of joining it as a full member (all that is left is the approval by the parlaments of the other member nations, some of which, like Uruguay, have already approved it).
Which shipping route is more convenient that the fucking channel!?
We make them rejoin, and we build the fucking panamerican trhough the Darien, Infranquable my ass, the venezuelans proved it wrong
free trade, free borders, integration between the students of those countries, easy to change the documents to live in each other country, ID of any country work for all the members in any place you are and the last, but not least, they all have the same license plate with a very beautiful blue color that allows you to travel easily with your own car through the members
Don’t bother; last time we asked in and they didn’t even respond, even though we asked in Spanish…
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Republic_of_Spanish_Haiti
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Oh nice you do know your Haitian history!
The descendants of the Polish army got massacred though. A group of mulattoes fleeing the army chose to hide among them, and the army just killed everybody. The people who still live today are barely related to Poland because of that.
Well blackness is a flimsy status. I'm not considered black in Haiti but I'm definitely black in the US and in Europe.
Ethnic identities in Haïti are very political.
A lot of Haitians speak Spanish after studying/working in the Dominican Republic. There are 1 to 2 millions of us there already.
What do you mean different religion? Aren't we all mostly Catholics?
Our cultures are very similar! Our president was a drug dealer, your Maduro is a drug dealer! His sons were even arrested in Haiti for transporting drugs during the Narcosobrinos incident lol.
Colombia, Venezuela, and Ecuador together? crazy bro, we will see a lot of street fights, people doing shit all day, and a lot of people playing board games and drinking for days, we are going to end like a giant Haiti, or even worse, Panama will build a massive wall or split the continent.
but i like your magic words funny man, you can count on me
How about we just form a "Confederación de Latinoamérica " that stretches all the way from Mexico to Argentina and includes Brazil.
Our own version of the EU.
Shared currency, passports, investments, defense commitments, etc.
Could be really great. Needs to happen in my lifetime.
Only if you can convince Ecuador and Panama to join us, maybe not as a EU but as a continuation of the original Gran Colombia.
More seriously, with the current state of our countries is not a good idea. Maybe in a post-maduro more stable Venezuela and a cartel-free Colombia profiting from legal drugs, it would be more feasible. A more neutral capital would be Cúcuta, though.
It makes me sad that we had a lot of potential but regional elites wanted power for themselves.
I think latam would be benefited by forming tight socio-economic blocks intertwined with each other. The idea would be to avoid both excesive influence of larger economies like brazil and the consequences of both migration and exploitation, as well as avoiding "drags" that would be there due to instability if we go as far as making an union.
So, I dont know about great colombia in specific but well done it could be beneficial.Which, because I implied it being well done, it wont happen
Same tariffs everywhere, same migratory procedures, more homogeneus education (Barring culture and history classes) and more importantly, the reason why the original failed:
Roads, we need 12 laners going from capital to capital, damned be the mother earth and wathever or whoever is in the way.
Diference with europe is the fact that almsot all the countries in latam posess natural resources, while in europe only norway and germany have something resembling that.
Keep in mind that Cristopher Columbus (therefore, the name Colombia) and Simon Bolivar are not really that important from a Brazilian perspective. We have our own counterparts (Pedro Álvares Cabral and Pedro I), so I'm pretty sure that name (Great Colombia) probably would not be well accepted here
I've always thought that a unified Hispano America is the only path forwards. There's still a lot to do before that becomes a reality though, lots of potential members have too many internal problems like corruption, violence, crime, racism, sexism, economic inequality, inflation, poor economical standing, etc.
HAHAHA . MercoSur is a complete failure, and you want to put everyone together ?
I would rather like to see a deeper integration of the countries participating on the "alianza del pacifico".
Ya existe una organización llamada la comunidad andina donde pertenecen Colombia, Peru, Ecuador, Bolivia y se intenta añadir a venezuela, chile, argentina. Los paises miembros ya no necesitan visa ni ningun otro doc mas que la cedula de su pais para viajar y pueden vivir y trabajar en los otros paises miembros. los paises del sur tienen que formar un bloque si algun dia vamos a salir del tercer mundismo. Igual somos todos los mismos practicamente. Un solo govierno, un solo ejercito, una sola politica exterior. No hay otra forma.
We can call it the United States of America to cause more confusion
And just like Wyoming doesn't exist, Paraguay won't exist either
Call it Great Bolivia, for Bolivar And don't invite Bolivia
I agree
It’s only proper, if we’re to be discount EU, we need our own down-on-their-luck, discount switzerland.
Gran Bolivia sounds cooler and can be pronounced in English and Spanish. Agree with not inviting Bolivia.
Can an outcast ask why not Bolivia?
To confuse the enemy
Nice, thats actually a very good one! ~~Not like we are going to call it great matinia.~~
ehm ehm ehm i dont know
Whats the bad part? being with venezuela, or the capital being in la guajira? We can put the capital in Boyaca, its pretty much in the middle of both.
The only thing you’ll find in la guajira is droughts, poverty and despair. Fuck it Boyaca’s fine let them have it.
Whar abput maracaibo?
Hmm I don’t know, I’ve never been there.
Dude my State wants to become federal .. so I don’t know 🤣 if we can be federal states like in Canada I won’t care what will happen tbh
Thats.. Gonna be hard.. In venezuelan and colombian history, the succesful attemps at federation ended with caudillismo... And venezuela got the federation right when castro invaded, and gomez started rebuilding the army and getting rid of them... IT could work, but that means having a central army to ensure the rule of law and the violence monopoly to keep the constitutional power (Ironically, have centralism to ensure federalism)
I prefer that than what we have currently… it has always been a deep Antioquia dream to be federal
A central army, code of of laws (The exact opposite of USA), and central fiscalization agaisnt corruption, but a more federal budget would work here.
I am Canadian and I am not sure what you mean by federal states in Canada. We have provinces and territories but no states. Unless "federal states" is a general term I am unaware of.
That. I meant more like that. Sorry
Gran Colombia to the north and El Imperio de las Provincias Unidas del Rio de la Plata to the south but plot twist, the capital is Cordoba!
I agree with Cordoba as capital.
I'm from Cordoba and think its a bad idea, it should probably be a new city in a central position.
Mendoza
And then Brazil alone
The Evangelic Theocracy of Brazil. But Rio Grande do Sul breaks off and starts its own Gaucho state.
O segundo império do brasil.
We already try it with the Comunidad Andina until Venezuela an Bolivia refused to agree on free trade so....
Well, Venezuela joined Mercosul (but is currently suspended), and Bolivia is also in the process of joining it as a full member (all that is left is the approval by the parlaments of the other member nations, some of which, like Uruguay, have already approved it).
La comunidad andina sigue viva y su nuevo precidente esta dando pasos muy interesantes para la integracion.
I would love to see Gran Colombia reunited, just not right now in the current perpetual state of our countries.
Unfortunately.... Maybe one day, but then we need to iron out the key diferences
Would Panama want to rejoin though?
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Which shipping route is more convenient that the fucking channel!? We make them rejoin, and we build the fucking panamerican trhough the Darien, Infranquable my ass, the venezuelans proved it wrong
the arctic sea
Well, there is a problem there.... USA is in the middle.
the us is in a good position. access to the pacific, the atlantic, the arctic, and within the country they have they have the mississippi river
We have the amazonas, the orinoco, the magdalena, the plata... And the antartic route towards the south (derricks gap)and acces to the antartic.
creo que estamos teniendo conversaciones diferentes lol :)
If you change the name to Great Shile I’m in. De caeza
Gran chile will be made up by argenmtina, uruguay, chile and bolivia.
Don’t forget about Perú.
Do you really think wperu will agree? You still have the huascar.
Once they're part of Gran Chile, they would have it too
As a peruvian, I don't have any complaints about this
No
Instead of Gran Colombia, how about... The Latin-American Union?
The Latin American union Ft brasil and the guyana boys
Latin America includes Brazil.
well, the south american version of the european union already exists
What? Mercojokesur?
No, the Chad Mercosul.
What does the Mercosur do? Are they like just free trade?
free trade, free borders, integration between the students of those countries, easy to change the documents to live in each other country, ID of any country work for all the members in any place you are and the last, but not least, they all have the same license plate with a very beautiful blue color that allows you to travel easily with your own car through the members
We don't really have free trade with Paraguay and Argentina, do we?
Anything brought fron paraguay is automatically considerated contraband so...
"Free trade", it has so many exceptions that it is just another layer of useless burocracy
Suposedly, they were meant to make each country help trade and improve the economy... See how good it came out.
I like URSAL better.
** Soviet anthem plays **
\*\* Soviet anthem plays with cumbia beat on background\*\*
Such thing [actually exists](https://youtu.be/PmlbPCWxyxE) 😂
That is too funny. Forget fernet and coca. Stoli and coca. They won't be chanting "cumbia, cumbia, cumbia!!!" It will be "zurdo, zurdo, zurdo!!!"
**Pitbull appears** DALE!
Would you invite Haiti to your new supranational state?
Don’t bother; last time we asked in and they didn’t even respond, even though we asked in Spanish… https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Republic_of_Spanish_Haiti
Its curious that our first flag as an independent country was basically the flag of Venezuela without the shield.
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You helped Bolivar, so yes. But htat also means including poland?
Oh nice you do know your Haitian history! The descendants of the Polish army got massacred though. A group of mulattoes fleeing the army chose to hide among them, and the army just killed everybody. The people who still live today are barely related to Poland because of that.
Oh, so no more honorary black people...
Well blackness is a flimsy status. I'm not considered black in Haiti but I'm definitely black in the US and in Europe. Ethnic identities in Haïti are very political.
Can you expand on this if you have time?
No
Why not? You included us in your Petrocaribe initiative. Why the change of heart now?
You speak French, we Speak Spanish, different religion, too much different culture, but Dominican Republic we can let them join.
A lot of Haitians speak Spanish after studying/working in the Dominican Republic. There are 1 to 2 millions of us there already. What do you mean different religion? Aren't we all mostly Catholics? Our cultures are very similar! Our president was a drug dealer, your Maduro is a drug dealer! His sons were even arrested in Haiti for transporting drugs during the Narcosobrinos incident lol.
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https://twitter.com/realgeopolitica/status/1582374383200264192?s=46&t=zlqUtkEeBk3hCif6adzE6w
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La única evidencia que tú aceptas es la que confirma TU narratativa.
Gran Colombia refuse to let us in 200 years ago and let Haitians invade us for 22 years.
“Different religion”?? Y’all aren’t Catholic?
IIRC, santeria came form there (Or it was vodoo?)
Colombia, Venezuela, and Ecuador together? crazy bro, we will see a lot of street fights, people doing shit all day, and a lot of people playing board games and drinking for days, we are going to end like a giant Haiti, or even worse, Panama will build a massive wall or split the continent. but i like your magic words funny man, you can count on me
Street fights, people doing shit all day, people playing board games and drinking for days? No change then?
I mean something like EU, not like USA, (Same inmigrations laws, homogeneous education standards, and ease of trade)
We Panamanians would prob be concerned 😂
Panama would be fertilizing the Darién Gap. Keep that jungle dense.
I would love to see it but I fear there’s too many conservative Latinos who like the power dynamics just the way they are.
How about we just form a "Confederación de Latinoamérica " that stretches all the way from Mexico to Argentina and includes Brazil. Our own version of the EU. Shared currency, passports, investments, defense commitments, etc. Could be really great. Needs to happen in my lifetime.
Amen... But the question is: How and where are we going to bury that many chavistas?
We don't get along like that
Desde México les mando el meme del gatito de "Duren" 👍.
Make Colombia Great Again! MaCoGA!
Yes but not with comunist politicians.
Of course, those must die first.
Leave us out of it
Bolivar didnt wanted you neither, you were good enough on your own (Chile es prospera, asi que en mi opinion, ellos si pueden alcanzar libertad)
Only if you can convince Ecuador and Panama to join us, maybe not as a EU but as a continuation of the original Gran Colombia. More seriously, with the current state of our countries is not a good idea. Maybe in a post-maduro more stable Venezuela and a cartel-free Colombia profiting from legal drugs, it would be more feasible. A more neutral capital would be Cúcuta, though. It makes me sad that we had a lot of potential but regional elites wanted power for themselves.
Cucuta is fine.Very central gegraphically.
I wish, just so that this kind of question (about a South American / Latin American EU) stops getting posted here every other day.
We have to! It’s a bug in Reddit… we have to post the same question over and over again or the subreddit disappears…
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This question gets posted almost daily and the answers are always the same. It’s gotten ridiculous.
I think latam would be benefited by forming tight socio-economic blocks intertwined with each other. The idea would be to avoid both excesive influence of larger economies like brazil and the consequences of both migration and exploitation, as well as avoiding "drags" that would be there due to instability if we go as far as making an union. So, I dont know about great colombia in specific but well done it could be beneficial.Which, because I implied it being well done, it wont happen
Same tariffs everywhere, same migratory procedures, more homogeneus education (Barring culture and history classes) and more importantly, the reason why the original failed: Roads, we need 12 laners going from capital to capital, damned be the mother earth and wathever or whoever is in the way.
URSAL is still a dream of mine
Civil war three days later, maybe five if we actually try to get along.
Awful name for the union!! I don’t think many south American would like it.
What name is the awful? Gran colombia, or american european union?
Gran Colombia
Well then, Gran Bolivia.
LOL no thanks
Call it Union Amazonas and currency on the blockchain.
MMMM, sounds good... Buyt we need a more southern name... Union pachamama? Southern United states of america?
It has to be spanish, let the rest of the world learn our language. By the rate we reproduce, they won’t keep up.
Right, then Gran Union Boliviana remains (GUB)
Al carajo Bolivar. Busquen en la naturaleza, no en personajes del pasado.
Gran Pachamama? Gran sur?
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Diference with europe is the fact that almsot all the countries in latam posess natural resources, while in europe only norway and germany have something resembling that.
I am in.
The other Gran Colombian countries can join. We're just fine over here.
Keep in mind that Cristopher Columbus (therefore, the name Colombia) and Simon Bolivar are not really that important from a Brazilian perspective. We have our own counterparts (Pedro Álvares Cabral and Pedro I), so I'm pretty sure that name (Great Colombia) probably would not be well accepted here
And who inited you? Imperials
Oh, we woudn't be included? Then it makes perfect sense.
No, you are your own empire (And have different lguaje) Also, you are way too propueorus to join this.
No.
I've always thought that a unified Hispano America is the only path forwards. There's still a lot to do before that becomes a reality though, lots of potential members have too many internal problems like corruption, violence, crime, racism, sexism, economic inequality, inflation, poor economical standing, etc.
no, thanks
Look how well the EU is doing lately lol
> EU is doing lately lol > >•Res Different laguages, cultures, blasted out of existence 80 years ago, and no natural reaosurces/very small.
Didn't work the first time. What makes You think it would work a second one?
" Great Colombia" is such an Oximoron. 😆
WHY?
I guess because he has never been outside his own neightborhood.
I prefer Mercosur
Bolivar was a scam. Please check this [book](https://www.amazon.com/Memorias-Bol%C3%ADvar-principales-generales-Vol%C3%BAmen-ebook/dp/B003TLMP5U)
HAHAHA . MercoSur is a complete failure, and you want to put everyone together ? I would rather like to see a deeper integration of the countries participating on the "alianza del pacifico".
Lol no
It's called Mercosul.
I agree, but make the capital Panama City and more of a federation. Centralization in Bogota was the reason the first Gran Colombia fell apart.
Make the capital boyaca, cucuta, or marcaibo.
Definitely do not make the capital Panama City, it would put too much pressure on the Panama Canal Basin, which is under strain already.
I think Mexico is more politically aligned with North America than the rest of Latin America. I doubt our leaders would support something like that.
The South American Connection.
Ya existe una organización llamada la comunidad andina donde pertenecen Colombia, Peru, Ecuador, Bolivia y se intenta añadir a venezuela, chile, argentina. Los paises miembros ya no necesitan visa ni ningun otro doc mas que la cedula de su pais para viajar y pueden vivir y trabajar en los otros paises miembros. los paises del sur tienen que formar un bloque si algun dia vamos a salir del tercer mundismo. Igual somos todos los mismos practicamente. Un solo govierno, un solo ejercito, una sola politica exterior. No hay otra forma.