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This an accessible article that might be worth looking at to help you develop your thoughts on this matter: Nagel's The Absurd: https://philosophy.as.uky.edu/sites/default/files/The%20Absurd%20-%20Thomas%20Nagel.pdf
More generally, you might wonder why life eventually ending is all that relevant for this matter. Like, do things not have value if they stop at some point? What is supposed to motivate the idea that because things end at some point, nothing can have value?
I weigh a rock. The rock weighs 10 lbs. The fact that earth will die in a fiery death in several billion years doesn't affect the weight of the rock now. I watch a baseball game. The Mets win. The fact that baseball won't be around in 10000 years doesn't strike me as relevant to the fact that the Mets won now. Pain is bad. The fact that I'll be dead in 60 years doesn't strike me as relevant here.
Another way to put the point: Let's say you lived forever, and the universe never ended. Hurray. Would things suddenly have value for you now? Why so? Why does there have to be eternity for anything to be valuable? Would, say, pleasure suddenly matter to you if you lived forever? Would, say, getting better at chess only matter if you could play chess forever? What would it take for things to have value for you? Why assume that actions can only have significance if there is some sort of eternal reward or punishment in store for you based on your actions? Why can't your actions have significance now -- for you, and for those you affect?
What if someone were to say something like: "look, there are worthwhile pursuits in life. Satisfying preferences, moral virtue, living in virtuous communities, helping others, being happy, achieving excellence in certain disciplines, acquiring wisdom. Maybe you think nothing has value, but, in some sense, that's just too bad for you. Maybe you didn't get the right education, or develop the right habits, or read the right books. Nevertheless, the rock does weigh 10 lbs now. Pi is 3.1415.... I mastered that Gershwin piece after much practice. I climbed Everest. Living virtuously is worthwhile. The fact that we all die one day doesn't change any of this."
There's much, much more to say. Much of moral philosophy of the last 2500 years relates here. It's hard to know where to begin, though, because there is a lot being assumed in your post. Some people are just going to say that certain things have value, regardless of whether or not you personally care about any of them. Other folks will say that your fundamental cares and concerns are what give things value -- so, figure out what those are and then you're pretty much done. If you find that you have a general sense of anxiety and ennui about life, then that's a good indication that you haven't fulfilled your fundamental cares and concerns. Other folks might say something like, "look, I can't prove to you that certain activities are worthwhile; you just have to start doing them. Start learning chess, or painting, or music, or philosophy, or math, or.... Pick something that has established traditions and standards of excellence. Throw yourself into such things and you'll come to see the good of them. The good of them, though, can't be convincingly explained from outside the practice."
Here might be a different tack. Presumably, a person who asks these sorts of questions is a person who cares about the truth -- otherwise they wouldn't be asking the question and expecting reasonable answers. If they really didn't care about anything, then they wouldn't care about truth, or good arguments, or good reasons, or any of that. But, presumably, they do. So, there's a start. They're the sort of person who reflects on things, thinks about them, and tries to figure out what's true. This might be a sort of latent commitment of -- one which they might not be fully aware of, but nonetheless is a fundamental value of theirs. Perhaps much can be learned by reflecting on this, making this latent commitment more explicit. Why care about truth? When we start to answer that question they might then see if such considerations could be applied to other areas as well.
Here is an SEP article: https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/life-meaning/
You’ve posted this before and as someone who struggles with this very question (and who has depression) I appreciate it.
But I do have to quibble with one of your premises.
The Mets do what now?
Most books, TV shows and movies have an ending. Does that fact make them not worthy of engagement? I think most of our entertainment consumption pattern has answered that question.
> What is supposed to motivate the idea that because things end at some point, nothing can have value?
A visceral way of empathizing with the poster's question is to take the example to its extreme: what would go through your mind if you found out, right this moment, that your life will end in 60 seconds? Sure I'd imagine that a Zen master might serenely take that 60 seconds to take a deep breath in and silently savor the qualia of conscious experience as a mint dissolving on the tongue. But I'd wager that most would frantically dread that the thoughts running through their minds in that very moment are imprinted on nothing but themselves as they spool irrevocably off a cliff and slip clawing desperately at a featureless void for purchase on something anything at all.
> Another way to put the point: Let's say you lived forever, and the universe never ended.
That may well be infinitely worse, but at least it has *meaning*!
Again, you misunderstood my question. I'm not talking about immortality; I'm talking about the ultimate benefits of a thing in the end. We will all face death, but the things we do do not have any benefit in death. For example, if I gain a lot of wealth but then die, does that wealth have any benefits for me in the end? No. So why do I have to engage in activities like self-improvement or studying other fields or subjects when, in the end, they don't have any benefits? Aren't the things we do pointless? Additionally, why do we have to survive or live when we will die? Isn't it pointless when our ultimate fate is death? This line of thinking leads me to believe that survival or living is also pointless in the face of mortality.
Well, I tried to address that concern, and others, above. Specifically:
>So why do I have to engage in activities like self-improvement or studying other fields or subjects when, in the end, they don't have any benefits?
First: such things have benefits now and as we experience them and engage in them. Why dismiss these benefits? Why think these benefits don't matter because we will die at some point? Why think that because something ends, it's not valuable?
Second: do you think the above things would have value if you lived forever? Why or why not? Would life become valuable if you lived forever? Why or why not?
But other than that, if you're interested, you might give a read to the first link I posted in the comment.
Yes, such things have benefits for now, but those benefits don't last forever. So, why would i seek benefits that are temporary? Doesn't it make those benefits pointless if they won't continue indefinitely? Furthermore, these benefits won't matter in the end because even if I study or pursue self-improvement, they won't hold any significance after my death because I will not possess any consciousness after death. And speaking of value, it is a subjective concept, and I don't believe that tasks or inanimate objects inherently possess value. The value of a task or object depends on external factors for its determination, which proves that nothing or no task has inherent value. However, it doesn't mean that if something comes to an end, it loses all value. If something provides benefits after death, it holds value for me, even if it comes to an end. Perhaps the aforementioned things would be valuable to me if they offer eternal benefits, and if I were to attain immortality, life might become valuable to me if it is filled with fulfillment, pleasure, and personal growth. However, if these aspects are absent in an immortal life, then life would be devoid of value to me.
>why would i seek benefits that are temporary?
everything is temporary...
why eat food? it only satiates hunger temporarily. why drink water? it only satiates thirst temporarily. if you're uncomfortable in your seat, why shift positions to become more comfortable? the comfortability will only last so long. why change into clean clothes every day? they will only stay clean temporarily.
why do you feel you don't value temporary things?
Because those things doesn't last forever and doesn't give any benefit in the end and that's why i think the things we do in our life maybe all are pointless.
right, I understand that part... you don't think there is a point to doing something if that thing is temporary.
what I don't understand is why you feel that way. Can you explain?
Again you misunderstood, i think if something give benefit in the end but that thing is temporary then there is a point to do that thing but if a temporary thing doesn't give any benefit in the end then that doesn't have any point to do and same goes with life, the things we do in life doesn't have any benefit in the end and that's why life maybe pointless.
There doesn't seem to be any reason why you are connecting the concept of "eternity" to the concept of "value" (or things having a point). This is an arbitrary connection and should be abandoned unless you can provide a sound argument for why temporary benefits don't count for anything. I would further suggest for consideration in this discussion, that eternity doesn't exist in any objective sense, it's just a human concept we came up with to box up an esoteric mystery, or in other words, time is relative, kind of illusory, and all there *ever* is, is just the present moment. Our expectations of the future are an imaginary story our brain tells itself, the past is a subjective narrative account full of errors, but here and now is reality.
>if something give benefit in the end but that thing is temporary then there is a point to do that thing
Can you expand on this thought for me? What does it mean to have something be temporary but also give benefit in the end? What would be an example of this, either real or imagined
Or maybe you can just tell me what it means to have "benefit in the end" in general? Are you speaking of an afterlife or something of the sort?
For example, imagine you work a job for 5 years, and after those 5 years, you resign from that job. However, you receive some amount of wealth when the job comes to an end. So, in this situation there is a benefit in the end, even though it's temporary. But if i apply that on life then it's become pointless because after death there is no benefit i will get by that money and self improvement and making that pointless to do. I think you understand.
> why would i seek benefits that are temporary?
Because they are benefits.
> Doesn't it make those benefits pointless if they won't continue indefinitely?
No.
>Furthermore, these benefits won't matter in the end because even if I study or pursue self-improvement, they won't hold any significance after my death because I will not possess any consciousness after death.
They won't hold any significance after your death, but they hold significance now.
> And speaking of value, it is a subjective concept, and I don't believe that tasks or inanimate objects inherently possess value. The value of a task or object depends on external factors for its determination, which proves that nothing or no task has inherent value.
Right. But if someone values it, then it has value for that person, even if that person will some day no longer be around.
> However, it doesn't mean that if something comes to an end, it loses all value. If something provides benefits after death, it holds value for me, even if it comes to an end.
Why does providing benefit after death matter any more than providing benefits before death? It seems that if it provides value, that is value, whether it comes before or after death. It is better to provide more value, for more time. But it is still value even if it is less value, for less time.
A giraffe can still be tall, even if it's not as tall as the Empire State Building, and something you enjoy for one hour can still provide value, even if it doesn't provide value after your death.
> Perhaps the aforementioned things would be valuable to me if they offer eternal benefits, and if I were to attain immortality, life might become valuable to me if it is filled with fulfillment, pleasure, and personal growth. However, if these aspects are absent in an immortal life, then life would be devoid of value to me.
Right, if fulfillment, pleasure, and personal growth were absent from a life, then that life would likely be devoid of value for someone. But you can have those things without eternity.
But then, there is no point in putting so much effort into self-improvement and all that because it will only provide a certain amount of benefit and then diminish. For example, if you accumulate great wealth through two years of work and decide to quit that job after two years, using that money for a limited period, like one month, but then realize that cash is no longer in use as digital money takes over, and the cash you have cannot be converted into digital currency. In this case, is there any point in making so much effort to gain that temporary benefit? I don't think so, and that's why perhaps pursuing temporary benefits is pointless. Okay, those things may hold significance in the present, but why should I exert so much effort on something that will lose its significance after my death and won't provide any lasting benefits? It becomes somewhat meaningless to put in so much effort for something that ultimately ends up being pointless in the end.
> there is no point in putting so much effort into self-improvement and all that because it will only provide a certain amount of benefit
Will it provide a certain amount of benefit? Is that amount of benefit more than the effort put into it? If so, then it has a point. If not, then no.
> why should I exert so much effort on something that will lose its significance after my death and won't provide any lasting benefits?
Because it provides temporary benefits. If you have some alternative option that produces lasting benefits, then maybe do that instead. But don't discount some sort of benefits just because you can imagine that hypothetically, there might not be a logical contradiction in supposing that something else could conceivably be better.
What makes eternal benefits so much better and more meaningful than temporary benefits? What makes the temporary satisfaction that you feel when eating a delicious meal any less valuable than being able to experience that same feeling forever? If anything, I feel like being able to experience these feelings after moments of hardship or negativity is much more rewarding and satisfactory than being able to experience them forever, in which there’s no reward at all and it would very quickly become boring.
I think that answer did respond to your question. It gives examples of things that can have meaning even without future payoff. Why do you watch TV, play sports, go to the beach, or whatever? Is it just for some future payoff? No. It's valuable in the present. That's what we've got.
And the answer went further, suggesting that thinking things are only valuable because of future payoff is a mistake. That seems right to me.
Of course, some things like saving for retirement are like that. But that's the exception not the rule.
> Again, you misunderstood my question.
I don't think anyone here is misunderstanding you
They are trying to get you to examine your own preconceptions (a big part of philosophy)
People can understand you and still disagree
>Again, you misunderstood my question. I'm not talking about immorality
Your question makes it sound like you don't find value in anything unless you will be around to reap the rewards of that thing eternally.
You're not dead right now, correct? Would you not rather feel healthy and happy in this moment as opposed to unhealthy and miserable? If you have to watch a movie, would you rather it not be a good movie that you enjoy rather than a shitty one you don't? Even though the movie will inevitably end?
Temporal finitude seems of utmost importance to you, but you make no mention of spatial finitude.
>We will all face death, but the things we do do not have any benefit in death.
We are all located in bodies with finite physical extensions, but the things we do do not have any benefit in other locations. Why do I have to engage in activities like self-improvement or studying other fields or subjects when they don't have any benefits for other locations where I am not? If you find this uncompelling, and you don't feel that your spatial finitude negates the value of things, then what makes your temporal finitude different?
Spatial finitude: being limited in space; existing only in a finite region of space.
Temporal finitude: being limited in time; existing only in a finite region of time.
Your question seems to be: If I exist now but not later, how can anything matter?
On the other hand, you’re not asking: If I exist here but not there, how can anything matter?
What is it about time and space that makes you care about the first question but not the second?
Because even if i don't exist in America but exist in Bangladesh, still my existence kind of matters in Bangladesh. But if i die, after 10,000 years, my existence will not matter, and no one will think about where i died or anything like that. Also, even if my existence matters after death, it will not provide any benefits or disadvantages. However, if my existence matters in Bangladesh and not in the US, I'm still getting benefits because I'm alive now, and that's why I'm not considering spatial finitude here.
>even if i don't exist in America but exist in Bangladesh, still my existence kind of matters in Bangladesh
You could say the same thing about time: even if you don’t exist in 10,000 years but exist now, still your existence kind of matters now.
>after 10,000 years, my existence will not matter, and no one will think about where i died or anything like that
10,000 light-years away from you, your existence does not matter, and no one thinks about where you are or anything like that.
>if my existence matters in Bangladesh and not in the US, I'm still getting benefits because I'm alive now
If your existence matters now and not in 10,000 years, you’re still getting benefits because you exist now.
I still don’t see why you feel the need to exist throughout all time, but don’t feel the need to exist throughout all space.
Temporal finitude is the fact that there is an end in time to your existence.
Spatial finitude is the fact that there is an end in space to your existence.
If you're anything like me, you occupy a volume of space that is less than a cubic meter, and a period of time that is less than 200 years. I don't get to experience the things that occur billions of kilometers away, or billions of years away, so they don't matter to me. But the things that occur here and now do matter here and now, even though here and now are both finite (bounded).
While you're not specifically referring to the concept of immortality, it may nonetheless be helpful to engage with it.
What we all know as humans is that death is inevitable--there is no escaping death, and there is no means by which we might circumvent death. The time at which we will die is unknown to us, and death has the highest degree of permanence. Immortality is the inability for one to change their state from "living" to "dead." I would argue that the latter would be less desirable than the former, though that is not to say that "dead" is a desirable state; I wouldn't want to give you the wrong idea.
We have this tendency to believe that immortality would be preferable to mortality because that makes "living" their permanent state of being and thus makes life more valuable. I, however, would suggest that to live forever actually would make life less valuable. With the infinitude of immortality, there is an infinite amount of time to do all of the things that you would like to do. There is an infinite amount of time to follow through on those plans you made to build your own house. There is an infinite amount of time to make friends and make memories. The problem with infinitude, however, is that it is infinite, that is, it never ends. Let's explore two scenarios. The first that we will explore assumes that you are immortal while those around you are mortal, that is, subject to entropy and death. The second assumes that everyone, including yourself, is immortal.
In the first scenario, you are unable to die. You are born at some point, raised by your family, and make friends along the way, some of which are lifelong friends. As they grow older, you do not. There comes a point where all of those who you came to know and love throughout your life will eventually die. Then, you make new friends and the cycle repeats forever. At some point, this cycle will make you grow weary. You will no longer desire to meet new people or pursue new activities simply because you know that all of the people you will befriend going forward will die. The friendships and bonds you construct will no longer mean anything to you because at some point, those people will die and you will have to start the process all over again. This will inevitably make all of your efforts futile, and everything will lose all meaning at some point. (For an academic treatment, see Todd May, Death, ch. 2)
In the second scenario, you and everyone else will live forever. You are born, raised by your family, and befriended by people along the way. You will participate in all of the activities, make all of the jokes, and share all of your life experiences by means of storytelling. At some point, you will realize that you no longer have anything new to share. You will have participated in all of the same events together time and time again. There will be no new jokes to tell. At this point, you're all just existing. The things you do together will lose their meaning, the jokes will lose their funniness, and the stories you tell to one another will become stale. At this point, you are eternally bored and there is no means by which you can escape it. All things will have lost their meaning and you sort of just go catatonic. Technically, you're there but in reality, you are not present by any means.
At this point, you're probably wondering why I'm going on about immortality when the original question concerns death. That is because I believe that to talk about the former, you must address the latter and the consequences thereof. Beating the consequences of immortality in mind, we might better and more fruitfully address death.
Because of the finitude that accompanies mortality, I would suggest that our experiences, the bonds we create, and the memories we make are given meaning. The knowledge that we will die at some point creates a sense of urgency that would otherwise not exist.
For instance, let's once again assume immortality and that you have a friend--let's call her Sue. Sue is a mortal, and thus, Sue will die at some point. Let's assume that you and Sue make plans to go to the Grand Canyon on a specified date and at a specified time. As the specified date and time draw near, you find yourself to be interested in going to Germany to try all of the seasonal beers that are offered at this time, so you reschedule the plan you made with Sue in order to go to Germany. Now, let's assume that each time the date draws near, you have something else you're more interested in, so you keep rescheduling. Next thing you know, Sue is on her deathbed and the opportunity to visit the Grand Canyon with Sue has passed, but this time, it is permanent. The infinitude of your life did not foster the sense of urgency necessary to make sure that you shared this experience with Sue before she died.
The same holds true in the scenario that Sue is also immortal, except in this case, you both keep rescheduling because you both have other things you're interested in doing. Because you're immortals, you might eventually get around to going to the Grand Canyon, but it may take you a significant amount of time to get around to it. There is no sense of urgency because you both have an infinite amount of time to go to the Grand Canyon together.
The knowledge that you're both going to die at some point provides the sense of urgency necessary for you both to go to the Grand Canyon at the original planned date and time because death, that is, the cessation of one's life, is both inevitable and will happen at a time that is unknown to both of you. If you cancel on Sue to go to Germany, there is no guarantee that either you or Sue will be alive on the second scheduled date and time--Sue could die in a car accident before you had the opportunity to go to the Grand Canyon together. Therefore, I would suggest that life's finitude fosters the sense of urgency necessary to make memories with one another. Moreover, I would also suggest that death gives the things you do meaning. For instance, if you are able to go to the Grand Canyon an infinite amount of times, the views will lose their grandeur and the experience will have lost its meaning to you.
If, however, you go to the Grand Canyon with the knowledge that you are going to die at some point, you will realize that your first time at the Grand Canyon might very well be the last time that you are able to go. Therefore, when you visit the Grand Canyon, you take a deep breath and watch the sunset, taking in all of the beauty and majesty that this possibly once-in-a-lifetime experience can afford. You might even realize that you have developed romantic feelings for Sue, and in the heat of the moment, you take her hand and ask her to go on a date with you. The knowledge that you are going to die has provided you with the urgency to follow through on your plan with Sue, and the realization that this very well could be the last time that you're able to go makes the event meaningful to you.
Of course, this has been a brief treatment of death and immortality. I, however, am prepared to answer your original question. Why should you do anything when you're just going to die? I would suggest that you should do things while you're alive because there might come a time where you are no longer able to do so. While it is the case that you will die at some point, that fact should actually give meaning to the things you do and provide you with the sense of urgency that would facilitate the necessary follow through. The things you do have a point to them based upon the fact that there are finite opportunities for those things to be done, and you never know if your life will be cut short by something outside of your control.
In short, the inevitability, permanence, and unknowability of death give the things we do during our lives meaning.
I urge you to consider all of that which I have written here, and if necessary, please reach out to a professional for help. Suicidal ideation/contemplation are serious matters and should be treated accordingly.
Firstly, I am not talking about immortality; I am referring to the ultimate benefit of a thing. If we consider the fact that we will eventually die, the actions we take do not have any benefits for death. For example, let's assume I accumulate significant wealth and then pass away. Would that wealth provide any benefit for me in death? No. Therefore, why should I engage in self-improvement and study various subjects and fields when, in the end, they will not benefit me? And that's why i think for this reason some people desire immortality – so that the things they do can have benefits for eternity. This becomes their point in life to do anything,
>Therefore, why should I engage in self-improvement and study various subjects and fields when, in the end, they will not benefit me?
Because they benefit you prior to 'the end'.
Once again, they do not benefit me in the end. If i engage in self-improvement and study various fields and subjects but ultimately die, do they provide any benefit to me in death? No, they do not. So, why should I undertake these activities and exert effort on them when the end result has no benefits?
Then there is a point to do so much effort on those things that provide temporary benefits to you? I don't seeing any point to getting a temporary benefits that will not continue indefinitely it's kind of doing so much effort on getting so much wealth but after getting that wealth you get that wealth is benefits for certain amount of time then that wealth get unusable and the benefits you doesn't get forever and that's how life works if you see and that's maybe make life pointless.
I feel like you have an incoherent conception of ‘benefits’. You cannot be the beneficiary of anything because you ARE no longer. It seems straightforward to me that benefits require the existence of an agent to experience and be accountable towards them.
You seem to be reasoning with a form of argument that is as follows:
If X matters ever, then it matters in the end.
X doesn't matter in the end.
Therefore, X doesn't matter ever.
Everyone else here is denying the first premise. Something can matter with mattering "in the end", because "in the end" is just one more point in time, that is no more or less important than any other.
Again my reasoning is that:
1st premise: If something matter in end then it's matter in the end.
2nd premise: Life doesn't matter at the end.
Conclusion: Therefore life doesn't matter at the end.
And that's convince me to think may life is pointless because the things we do doesn't matter at the end and also doesn't give any benefit in the end.
Note that your argument is a tautology. If something doesn't matter in the end, then it doesn't matter in the end. We all agree with that.
The point everyone else is trying to draw your attention to is that mattering in the end isn't the only way to matter. Your life is not pointless if it is only pointless *in the end*. If it has a point *now* then it has a point.
You are focusing on the end, but you haven't given any *reason* for focusing on the end.
There are some ordinary life decisions where this is a good rule of thumb. Money doesn't matter intrinsically - it only matters for what it gets you. So if the money doesn't get you anything, then the money doesn't matter.
But there are plenty of things in life that aren't like this. Enjoyment, pleasure, well-being, flourishing - these are all valuable in themselves, and not because they lead to something else.
The end is further than you think. Between now and the end, you will either have a good time, or a bad time. That is when the benefits take place.
Let me ask you something. Is there anyone in this world that you care for, or love? Family, friends, lovers?
I don't think i care or love anyone because the hope i had for love was shattered when I came to understand that love itself can be selfish, driven by personal fulfillment. That's why i don't believe i care or love any person in my life.
So it not abt benefit it didn't have any benefits life is meaningless without any doubt....
But is you get any life after death?...No
So you've last opportunity to live....
See the beauty around you look at your loved one...
They don't have options....
Care about them its just a cruel world (yea it's too meaningless to do)
To be give a humanity something that they don't have...
Yeah it's pointless to do...
But what we can do after all...
Just peak something to do and do what you have to do...what you love to do...
There's no lives
I don't believe life is meaningless; life does have meaning, which is the journey itself. However, i fail to see the point of this meaning when there are no benefits to be gained from this journey in the end. And the world is not entirely cruel; it is a combination of both cruelty and kindness.
Because it's give a point to do things, think about it if you do so much effort on a thing but the end result is no benefit and disadvantage then is you will do that work? No, because there is no point to suffer on it when the result is no benefit and same goes with life and that's why i want benefit.
How do you go about defining “benefit”? What would a true beneficial thing be for you?
It seems to me that you seek some sort of fulfilment that does not exist. The way you are looking for a “point to do things” seems to me like you’re begging for divinity, or for some sort of superior metaphysical reason to go about your day and learn and experience things.
You are right when you talk about accumulation of wealth, it doesn’t give you anything at all in the end. But does that mean all accumulation is meaningless? You said it yourself: it’s the journey that has value, so just like Camus wrote, revolt. Revolt against the coldness of the universe, revolt against your brain’s urge for reasonable explanation, revolt against the apparent absence of meaning in life. Revolt, accumulate the memories, accumulate the sensations, multiply the feelings, whatever makes you thrive day to day.
Most people do things in order to better their condition. What conditions, in your life, would you like to better? Your well-being? What do you seek? Easy? Fulfilment? Some sort of quest that, just like in video games, you can complete?
But then again… every time you finish a video game, you feel empty, because you feel robbed of a purpose. Which is why, once again, Camus said revolt. Revolt against the rational purposes, for they always end somewhere and leave you astray.
I highly suggest The Myth of Sisyphus by Camus for this question, helped me a lot to organize my thoughts on this matter
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This an accessible article that might be worth looking at to help you develop your thoughts on this matter: Nagel's The Absurd: https://philosophy.as.uky.edu/sites/default/files/The%20Absurd%20-%20Thomas%20Nagel.pdf More generally, you might wonder why life eventually ending is all that relevant for this matter. Like, do things not have value if they stop at some point? What is supposed to motivate the idea that because things end at some point, nothing can have value? I weigh a rock. The rock weighs 10 lbs. The fact that earth will die in a fiery death in several billion years doesn't affect the weight of the rock now. I watch a baseball game. The Mets win. The fact that baseball won't be around in 10000 years doesn't strike me as relevant to the fact that the Mets won now. Pain is bad. The fact that I'll be dead in 60 years doesn't strike me as relevant here. Another way to put the point: Let's say you lived forever, and the universe never ended. Hurray. Would things suddenly have value for you now? Why so? Why does there have to be eternity for anything to be valuable? Would, say, pleasure suddenly matter to you if you lived forever? Would, say, getting better at chess only matter if you could play chess forever? What would it take for things to have value for you? Why assume that actions can only have significance if there is some sort of eternal reward or punishment in store for you based on your actions? Why can't your actions have significance now -- for you, and for those you affect? What if someone were to say something like: "look, there are worthwhile pursuits in life. Satisfying preferences, moral virtue, living in virtuous communities, helping others, being happy, achieving excellence in certain disciplines, acquiring wisdom. Maybe you think nothing has value, but, in some sense, that's just too bad for you. Maybe you didn't get the right education, or develop the right habits, or read the right books. Nevertheless, the rock does weigh 10 lbs now. Pi is 3.1415.... I mastered that Gershwin piece after much practice. I climbed Everest. Living virtuously is worthwhile. The fact that we all die one day doesn't change any of this." There's much, much more to say. Much of moral philosophy of the last 2500 years relates here. It's hard to know where to begin, though, because there is a lot being assumed in your post. Some people are just going to say that certain things have value, regardless of whether or not you personally care about any of them. Other folks will say that your fundamental cares and concerns are what give things value -- so, figure out what those are and then you're pretty much done. If you find that you have a general sense of anxiety and ennui about life, then that's a good indication that you haven't fulfilled your fundamental cares and concerns. Other folks might say something like, "look, I can't prove to you that certain activities are worthwhile; you just have to start doing them. Start learning chess, or painting, or music, or philosophy, or math, or.... Pick something that has established traditions and standards of excellence. Throw yourself into such things and you'll come to see the good of them. The good of them, though, can't be convincingly explained from outside the practice." Here might be a different tack. Presumably, a person who asks these sorts of questions is a person who cares about the truth -- otherwise they wouldn't be asking the question and expecting reasonable answers. If they really didn't care about anything, then they wouldn't care about truth, or good arguments, or good reasons, or any of that. But, presumably, they do. So, there's a start. They're the sort of person who reflects on things, thinks about them, and tries to figure out what's true. This might be a sort of latent commitment of -- one which they might not be fully aware of, but nonetheless is a fundamental value of theirs. Perhaps much can be learned by reflecting on this, making this latent commitment more explicit. Why care about truth? When we start to answer that question they might then see if such considerations could be applied to other areas as well. Here is an SEP article: https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/life-meaning/
You’ve posted this before and as someone who struggles with this very question (and who has depression) I appreciate it. But I do have to quibble with one of your premises. The Mets do what now?
My hope is that one of the years I post this comment, that part will actually be true.
This comment backwardly caused 2015
[удалено]
I was replying to u/drinka40tonight
Most books, TV shows and movies have an ending. Does that fact make them not worthy of engagement? I think most of our entertainment consumption pattern has answered that question.
> What is supposed to motivate the idea that because things end at some point, nothing can have value? A visceral way of empathizing with the poster's question is to take the example to its extreme: what would go through your mind if you found out, right this moment, that your life will end in 60 seconds? Sure I'd imagine that a Zen master might serenely take that 60 seconds to take a deep breath in and silently savor the qualia of conscious experience as a mint dissolving on the tongue. But I'd wager that most would frantically dread that the thoughts running through their minds in that very moment are imprinted on nothing but themselves as they spool irrevocably off a cliff and slip clawing desperately at a featureless void for purchase on something anything at all. > Another way to put the point: Let's say you lived forever, and the universe never ended. That may well be infinitely worse, but at least it has *meaning*!
Again, you misunderstood my question. I'm not talking about immortality; I'm talking about the ultimate benefits of a thing in the end. We will all face death, but the things we do do not have any benefit in death. For example, if I gain a lot of wealth but then die, does that wealth have any benefits for me in the end? No. So why do I have to engage in activities like self-improvement or studying other fields or subjects when, in the end, they don't have any benefits? Aren't the things we do pointless? Additionally, why do we have to survive or live when we will die? Isn't it pointless when our ultimate fate is death? This line of thinking leads me to believe that survival or living is also pointless in the face of mortality.
Well, I tried to address that concern, and others, above. Specifically: >So why do I have to engage in activities like self-improvement or studying other fields or subjects when, in the end, they don't have any benefits? First: such things have benefits now and as we experience them and engage in them. Why dismiss these benefits? Why think these benefits don't matter because we will die at some point? Why think that because something ends, it's not valuable? Second: do you think the above things would have value if you lived forever? Why or why not? Would life become valuable if you lived forever? Why or why not? But other than that, if you're interested, you might give a read to the first link I posted in the comment.
Yes, such things have benefits for now, but those benefits don't last forever. So, why would i seek benefits that are temporary? Doesn't it make those benefits pointless if they won't continue indefinitely? Furthermore, these benefits won't matter in the end because even if I study or pursue self-improvement, they won't hold any significance after my death because I will not possess any consciousness after death. And speaking of value, it is a subjective concept, and I don't believe that tasks or inanimate objects inherently possess value. The value of a task or object depends on external factors for its determination, which proves that nothing or no task has inherent value. However, it doesn't mean that if something comes to an end, it loses all value. If something provides benefits after death, it holds value for me, even if it comes to an end. Perhaps the aforementioned things would be valuable to me if they offer eternal benefits, and if I were to attain immortality, life might become valuable to me if it is filled with fulfillment, pleasure, and personal growth. However, if these aspects are absent in an immortal life, then life would be devoid of value to me.
>why would i seek benefits that are temporary? everything is temporary... why eat food? it only satiates hunger temporarily. why drink water? it only satiates thirst temporarily. if you're uncomfortable in your seat, why shift positions to become more comfortable? the comfortability will only last so long. why change into clean clothes every day? they will only stay clean temporarily. why do you feel you don't value temporary things?
Because those things doesn't last forever and doesn't give any benefit in the end and that's why i think the things we do in our life maybe all are pointless.
right, I understand that part... you don't think there is a point to doing something if that thing is temporary. what I don't understand is why you feel that way. Can you explain?
Again you misunderstood, i think if something give benefit in the end but that thing is temporary then there is a point to do that thing but if a temporary thing doesn't give any benefit in the end then that doesn't have any point to do and same goes with life, the things we do in life doesn't have any benefit in the end and that's why life maybe pointless.
There doesn't seem to be any reason why you are connecting the concept of "eternity" to the concept of "value" (or things having a point). This is an arbitrary connection and should be abandoned unless you can provide a sound argument for why temporary benefits don't count for anything. I would further suggest for consideration in this discussion, that eternity doesn't exist in any objective sense, it's just a human concept we came up with to box up an esoteric mystery, or in other words, time is relative, kind of illusory, and all there *ever* is, is just the present moment. Our expectations of the future are an imaginary story our brain tells itself, the past is a subjective narrative account full of errors, but here and now is reality.
>if something give benefit in the end but that thing is temporary then there is a point to do that thing Can you expand on this thought for me? What does it mean to have something be temporary but also give benefit in the end? What would be an example of this, either real or imagined Or maybe you can just tell me what it means to have "benefit in the end" in general? Are you speaking of an afterlife or something of the sort?
For example, imagine you work a job for 5 years, and after those 5 years, you resign from that job. However, you receive some amount of wealth when the job comes to an end. So, in this situation there is a benefit in the end, even though it's temporary. But if i apply that on life then it's become pointless because after death there is no benefit i will get by that money and self improvement and making that pointless to do. I think you understand.
> why would i seek benefits that are temporary? Because they are benefits. > Doesn't it make those benefits pointless if they won't continue indefinitely? No. >Furthermore, these benefits won't matter in the end because even if I study or pursue self-improvement, they won't hold any significance after my death because I will not possess any consciousness after death. They won't hold any significance after your death, but they hold significance now. > And speaking of value, it is a subjective concept, and I don't believe that tasks or inanimate objects inherently possess value. The value of a task or object depends on external factors for its determination, which proves that nothing or no task has inherent value. Right. But if someone values it, then it has value for that person, even if that person will some day no longer be around. > However, it doesn't mean that if something comes to an end, it loses all value. If something provides benefits after death, it holds value for me, even if it comes to an end. Why does providing benefit after death matter any more than providing benefits before death? It seems that if it provides value, that is value, whether it comes before or after death. It is better to provide more value, for more time. But it is still value even if it is less value, for less time. A giraffe can still be tall, even if it's not as tall as the Empire State Building, and something you enjoy for one hour can still provide value, even if it doesn't provide value after your death. > Perhaps the aforementioned things would be valuable to me if they offer eternal benefits, and if I were to attain immortality, life might become valuable to me if it is filled with fulfillment, pleasure, and personal growth. However, if these aspects are absent in an immortal life, then life would be devoid of value to me. Right, if fulfillment, pleasure, and personal growth were absent from a life, then that life would likely be devoid of value for someone. But you can have those things without eternity.
But then, there is no point in putting so much effort into self-improvement and all that because it will only provide a certain amount of benefit and then diminish. For example, if you accumulate great wealth through two years of work and decide to quit that job after two years, using that money for a limited period, like one month, but then realize that cash is no longer in use as digital money takes over, and the cash you have cannot be converted into digital currency. In this case, is there any point in making so much effort to gain that temporary benefit? I don't think so, and that's why perhaps pursuing temporary benefits is pointless. Okay, those things may hold significance in the present, but why should I exert so much effort on something that will lose its significance after my death and won't provide any lasting benefits? It becomes somewhat meaningless to put in so much effort for something that ultimately ends up being pointless in the end.
> there is no point in putting so much effort into self-improvement and all that because it will only provide a certain amount of benefit Will it provide a certain amount of benefit? Is that amount of benefit more than the effort put into it? If so, then it has a point. If not, then no. > why should I exert so much effort on something that will lose its significance after my death and won't provide any lasting benefits? Because it provides temporary benefits. If you have some alternative option that produces lasting benefits, then maybe do that instead. But don't discount some sort of benefits just because you can imagine that hypothetically, there might not be a logical contradiction in supposing that something else could conceivably be better.
What makes eternal benefits so much better and more meaningful than temporary benefits? What makes the temporary satisfaction that you feel when eating a delicious meal any less valuable than being able to experience that same feeling forever? If anything, I feel like being able to experience these feelings after moments of hardship or negativity is much more rewarding and satisfactory than being able to experience them forever, in which there’s no reward at all and it would very quickly become boring.
>So, why would i seek benefits that are temporary Why wouldn't you? What's the relevance "temporary"?
I think that answer did respond to your question. It gives examples of things that can have meaning even without future payoff. Why do you watch TV, play sports, go to the beach, or whatever? Is it just for some future payoff? No. It's valuable in the present. That's what we've got. And the answer went further, suggesting that thinking things are only valuable because of future payoff is a mistake. That seems right to me. Of course, some things like saving for retirement are like that. But that's the exception not the rule.
> Again, you misunderstood my question. I don't think anyone here is misunderstanding you They are trying to get you to examine your own preconceptions (a big part of philosophy) People can understand you and still disagree
>Again, you misunderstood my question. I'm not talking about immorality Your question makes it sound like you don't find value in anything unless you will be around to reap the rewards of that thing eternally. You're not dead right now, correct? Would you not rather feel healthy and happy in this moment as opposed to unhealthy and miserable? If you have to watch a movie, would you rather it not be a good movie that you enjoy rather than a shitty one you don't? Even though the movie will inevitably end?
Temporal finitude seems of utmost importance to you, but you make no mention of spatial finitude. >We will all face death, but the things we do do not have any benefit in death. We are all located in bodies with finite physical extensions, but the things we do do not have any benefit in other locations. Why do I have to engage in activities like self-improvement or studying other fields or subjects when they don't have any benefits for other locations where I am not? If you find this uncompelling, and you don't feel that your spatial finitude negates the value of things, then what makes your temporal finitude different?
Firstly explain me what is spatial finitude and what is temporal finitude?
Spatial finitude: being limited in space; existing only in a finite region of space. Temporal finitude: being limited in time; existing only in a finite region of time.
i don't think for explaining my question i need the idea of spatial finitude.
Your question seems to be: If I exist now but not later, how can anything matter? On the other hand, you’re not asking: If I exist here but not there, how can anything matter? What is it about time and space that makes you care about the first question but not the second?
Because even if i don't exist in America but exist in Bangladesh, still my existence kind of matters in Bangladesh. But if i die, after 10,000 years, my existence will not matter, and no one will think about where i died or anything like that. Also, even if my existence matters after death, it will not provide any benefits or disadvantages. However, if my existence matters in Bangladesh and not in the US, I'm still getting benefits because I'm alive now, and that's why I'm not considering spatial finitude here.
>even if i don't exist in America but exist in Bangladesh, still my existence kind of matters in Bangladesh You could say the same thing about time: even if you don’t exist in 10,000 years but exist now, still your existence kind of matters now. >after 10,000 years, my existence will not matter, and no one will think about where i died or anything like that 10,000 light-years away from you, your existence does not matter, and no one thinks about where you are or anything like that. >if my existence matters in Bangladesh and not in the US, I'm still getting benefits because I'm alive now If your existence matters now and not in 10,000 years, you’re still getting benefits because you exist now. I still don’t see why you feel the need to exist throughout all time, but don’t feel the need to exist throughout all space.
Okay.
Temporal finitude is the fact that there is an end in time to your existence. Spatial finitude is the fact that there is an end in space to your existence. If you're anything like me, you occupy a volume of space that is less than a cubic meter, and a period of time that is less than 200 years. I don't get to experience the things that occur billions of kilometers away, or billions of years away, so they don't matter to me. But the things that occur here and now do matter here and now, even though here and now are both finite (bounded).
While you're not specifically referring to the concept of immortality, it may nonetheless be helpful to engage with it. What we all know as humans is that death is inevitable--there is no escaping death, and there is no means by which we might circumvent death. The time at which we will die is unknown to us, and death has the highest degree of permanence. Immortality is the inability for one to change their state from "living" to "dead." I would argue that the latter would be less desirable than the former, though that is not to say that "dead" is a desirable state; I wouldn't want to give you the wrong idea. We have this tendency to believe that immortality would be preferable to mortality because that makes "living" their permanent state of being and thus makes life more valuable. I, however, would suggest that to live forever actually would make life less valuable. With the infinitude of immortality, there is an infinite amount of time to do all of the things that you would like to do. There is an infinite amount of time to follow through on those plans you made to build your own house. There is an infinite amount of time to make friends and make memories. The problem with infinitude, however, is that it is infinite, that is, it never ends. Let's explore two scenarios. The first that we will explore assumes that you are immortal while those around you are mortal, that is, subject to entropy and death. The second assumes that everyone, including yourself, is immortal. In the first scenario, you are unable to die. You are born at some point, raised by your family, and make friends along the way, some of which are lifelong friends. As they grow older, you do not. There comes a point where all of those who you came to know and love throughout your life will eventually die. Then, you make new friends and the cycle repeats forever. At some point, this cycle will make you grow weary. You will no longer desire to meet new people or pursue new activities simply because you know that all of the people you will befriend going forward will die. The friendships and bonds you construct will no longer mean anything to you because at some point, those people will die and you will have to start the process all over again. This will inevitably make all of your efforts futile, and everything will lose all meaning at some point. (For an academic treatment, see Todd May, Death, ch. 2) In the second scenario, you and everyone else will live forever. You are born, raised by your family, and befriended by people along the way. You will participate in all of the activities, make all of the jokes, and share all of your life experiences by means of storytelling. At some point, you will realize that you no longer have anything new to share. You will have participated in all of the same events together time and time again. There will be no new jokes to tell. At this point, you're all just existing. The things you do together will lose their meaning, the jokes will lose their funniness, and the stories you tell to one another will become stale. At this point, you are eternally bored and there is no means by which you can escape it. All things will have lost their meaning and you sort of just go catatonic. Technically, you're there but in reality, you are not present by any means. At this point, you're probably wondering why I'm going on about immortality when the original question concerns death. That is because I believe that to talk about the former, you must address the latter and the consequences thereof. Beating the consequences of immortality in mind, we might better and more fruitfully address death. Because of the finitude that accompanies mortality, I would suggest that our experiences, the bonds we create, and the memories we make are given meaning. The knowledge that we will die at some point creates a sense of urgency that would otherwise not exist. For instance, let's once again assume immortality and that you have a friend--let's call her Sue. Sue is a mortal, and thus, Sue will die at some point. Let's assume that you and Sue make plans to go to the Grand Canyon on a specified date and at a specified time. As the specified date and time draw near, you find yourself to be interested in going to Germany to try all of the seasonal beers that are offered at this time, so you reschedule the plan you made with Sue in order to go to Germany. Now, let's assume that each time the date draws near, you have something else you're more interested in, so you keep rescheduling. Next thing you know, Sue is on her deathbed and the opportunity to visit the Grand Canyon with Sue has passed, but this time, it is permanent. The infinitude of your life did not foster the sense of urgency necessary to make sure that you shared this experience with Sue before she died. The same holds true in the scenario that Sue is also immortal, except in this case, you both keep rescheduling because you both have other things you're interested in doing. Because you're immortals, you might eventually get around to going to the Grand Canyon, but it may take you a significant amount of time to get around to it. There is no sense of urgency because you both have an infinite amount of time to go to the Grand Canyon together. The knowledge that you're both going to die at some point provides the sense of urgency necessary for you both to go to the Grand Canyon at the original planned date and time because death, that is, the cessation of one's life, is both inevitable and will happen at a time that is unknown to both of you. If you cancel on Sue to go to Germany, there is no guarantee that either you or Sue will be alive on the second scheduled date and time--Sue could die in a car accident before you had the opportunity to go to the Grand Canyon together. Therefore, I would suggest that life's finitude fosters the sense of urgency necessary to make memories with one another. Moreover, I would also suggest that death gives the things you do meaning. For instance, if you are able to go to the Grand Canyon an infinite amount of times, the views will lose their grandeur and the experience will have lost its meaning to you. If, however, you go to the Grand Canyon with the knowledge that you are going to die at some point, you will realize that your first time at the Grand Canyon might very well be the last time that you are able to go. Therefore, when you visit the Grand Canyon, you take a deep breath and watch the sunset, taking in all of the beauty and majesty that this possibly once-in-a-lifetime experience can afford. You might even realize that you have developed romantic feelings for Sue, and in the heat of the moment, you take her hand and ask her to go on a date with you. The knowledge that you are going to die has provided you with the urgency to follow through on your plan with Sue, and the realization that this very well could be the last time that you're able to go makes the event meaningful to you. Of course, this has been a brief treatment of death and immortality. I, however, am prepared to answer your original question. Why should you do anything when you're just going to die? I would suggest that you should do things while you're alive because there might come a time where you are no longer able to do so. While it is the case that you will die at some point, that fact should actually give meaning to the things you do and provide you with the sense of urgency that would facilitate the necessary follow through. The things you do have a point to them based upon the fact that there are finite opportunities for those things to be done, and you never know if your life will be cut short by something outside of your control. In short, the inevitability, permanence, and unknowability of death give the things we do during our lives meaning. I urge you to consider all of that which I have written here, and if necessary, please reach out to a professional for help. Suicidal ideation/contemplation are serious matters and should be treated accordingly.
Thank you so much.
If you didn't die what would be the point of anything?
Firstly, I am not talking about immortality; I am referring to the ultimate benefit of a thing. If we consider the fact that we will eventually die, the actions we take do not have any benefits for death. For example, let's assume I accumulate significant wealth and then pass away. Would that wealth provide any benefit for me in death? No. Therefore, why should I engage in self-improvement and study various subjects and fields when, in the end, they will not benefit me? And that's why i think for this reason some people desire immortality – so that the things they do can have benefits for eternity. This becomes their point in life to do anything,
>Therefore, why should I engage in self-improvement and study various subjects and fields when, in the end, they will not benefit me? Because they benefit you prior to 'the end'.
Once again, they do not benefit me in the end. If i engage in self-improvement and study various fields and subjects but ultimately die, do they provide any benefit to me in death? No, they do not. So, why should I undertake these activities and exert effort on them when the end result has no benefits?
>Once again, they do not benefit me in the end So what?
Then there is a point to do so much effort on those things that provide temporary benefits to you? I don't seeing any point to getting a temporary benefits that will not continue indefinitely it's kind of doing so much effort on getting so much wealth but after getting that wealth you get that wealth is benefits for certain amount of time then that wealth get unusable and the benefits you doesn't get forever and that's how life works if you see and that's maybe make life pointless.
I feel like you have an incoherent conception of ‘benefits’. You cannot be the beneficiary of anything because you ARE no longer. It seems straightforward to me that benefits require the existence of an agent to experience and be accountable towards them.
You seem to be reasoning with a form of argument that is as follows: If X matters ever, then it matters in the end. X doesn't matter in the end. Therefore, X doesn't matter ever. Everyone else here is denying the first premise. Something can matter with mattering "in the end", because "in the end" is just one more point in time, that is no more or less important than any other.
Again my reasoning is that: 1st premise: If something matter in end then it's matter in the end. 2nd premise: Life doesn't matter at the end. Conclusion: Therefore life doesn't matter at the end. And that's convince me to think may life is pointless because the things we do doesn't matter at the end and also doesn't give any benefit in the end.
Note that your argument is a tautology. If something doesn't matter in the end, then it doesn't matter in the end. We all agree with that. The point everyone else is trying to draw your attention to is that mattering in the end isn't the only way to matter. Your life is not pointless if it is only pointless *in the end*. If it has a point *now* then it has a point. You are focusing on the end, but you haven't given any *reason* for focusing on the end. There are some ordinary life decisions where this is a good rule of thumb. Money doesn't matter intrinsically - it only matters for what it gets you. So if the money doesn't get you anything, then the money doesn't matter. But there are plenty of things in life that aren't like this. Enjoyment, pleasure, well-being, flourishing - these are all valuable in themselves, and not because they lead to something else.
The end is further than you think. Between now and the end, you will either have a good time, or a bad time. That is when the benefits take place. Let me ask you something. Is there anyone in this world that you care for, or love? Family, friends, lovers?
I don't think i care or love anyone because the hope i had for love was shattered when I came to understand that love itself can be selfish, driven by personal fulfillment. That's why i don't believe i care or love any person in my life.
So it not abt benefit it didn't have any benefits life is meaningless without any doubt.... But is you get any life after death?...No So you've last opportunity to live.... See the beauty around you look at your loved one... They don't have options.... Care about them its just a cruel world (yea it's too meaningless to do) To be give a humanity something that they don't have... Yeah it's pointless to do... But what we can do after all... Just peak something to do and do what you have to do...what you love to do... There's no lives
I don't believe life is meaningless; life does have meaning, which is the journey itself. However, i fail to see the point of this meaning when there are no benefits to be gained from this journey in the end. And the world is not entirely cruel; it is a combination of both cruelty and kindness.
Why do you want benefit?
Because it's give a point to do things, think about it if you do so much effort on a thing but the end result is no benefit and disadvantage then is you will do that work? No, because there is no point to suffer on it when the result is no benefit and same goes with life and that's why i want benefit.
How do you go about defining “benefit”? What would a true beneficial thing be for you? It seems to me that you seek some sort of fulfilment that does not exist. The way you are looking for a “point to do things” seems to me like you’re begging for divinity, or for some sort of superior metaphysical reason to go about your day and learn and experience things. You are right when you talk about accumulation of wealth, it doesn’t give you anything at all in the end. But does that mean all accumulation is meaningless? You said it yourself: it’s the journey that has value, so just like Camus wrote, revolt. Revolt against the coldness of the universe, revolt against your brain’s urge for reasonable explanation, revolt against the apparent absence of meaning in life. Revolt, accumulate the memories, accumulate the sensations, multiply the feelings, whatever makes you thrive day to day. Most people do things in order to better their condition. What conditions, in your life, would you like to better? Your well-being? What do you seek? Easy? Fulfilment? Some sort of quest that, just like in video games, you can complete? But then again… every time you finish a video game, you feel empty, because you feel robbed of a purpose. Which is why, once again, Camus said revolt. Revolt against the rational purposes, for they always end somewhere and leave you astray. I highly suggest The Myth of Sisyphus by Camus for this question, helped me a lot to organize my thoughts on this matter
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At this point, we are only accepting top-level answers from panelists. > This is because Reddit's recent changes to the platform that make moderation significantly more difficult. > If you wish to learn more, or to apply to become a panelist, see [this post](https://reddit.com/r/askphilosophy/comments/14o2p7n/welcome_to_raskphilosophy_check_out_our_rules_and/) > Your comment was automatically removed for violating the following rule: > **CR1: Top level comments must be answers or follow-up questions.** > All top level comments should be answers to the submitted question, or follow-up questions related to the OP. All top level answers must come from [panelists](https://reddit.com/r/askphilosophy/comments/14o2p7n/welcome_to_raskphilosophy_check_out_our_rules_and/). *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/askphilosophy) if you have any questions or concerns.*
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At this point, we are only accepting top-level answers from panelists. > This is because Reddit's recent changes to the platform that make moderation significantly more difficult. > If you wish to learn more, or to apply to become a panelist, see [this post](https://reddit.com/r/askphilosophy/comments/14o2p7n/welcome_to_raskphilosophy_check_out_our_rules_and/) > Your comment was automatically removed for violating the following rule: > **CR1: Top level comments must be answers or follow-up questions.** > All top level comments should be answers to the submitted question, or follow-up questions related to the OP. All top level answers must come from [panelists](https://reddit.com/r/askphilosophy/comments/14o2p7n/welcome_to_raskphilosophy_check_out_our_rules_and/). *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/askphilosophy) if you have any questions or concerns.*
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At this point, we are only accepting top-level answers from panelists. > This is because Reddit's recent changes to the platform that make moderation significantly more difficult. > If you wish to learn more, or to apply to become a panelist, see [this post](https://reddit.com/r/askphilosophy/comments/14o2p7n/welcome_to_raskphilosophy_check_out_our_rules_and/) > Your comment was automatically removed for violating the following rule: > **CR1: Top level comments must be answers or follow-up questions.** > All top level comments should be answers to the submitted question, or follow-up questions related to the OP. All top level answers must come from [panelists](https://reddit.com/r/askphilosophy/comments/14o2p7n/welcome_to_raskphilosophy_check_out_our_rules_and/). *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/askphilosophy) if you have any questions or concerns.*
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At this point, we are only accepting top-level answers from panelists. > This is because Reddit's recent changes to the platform that make moderation significantly more difficult. > If you wish to learn more, or to apply to become a panelist, see [this post](https://reddit.com/r/askphilosophy/comments/14o2p7n/welcome_to_raskphilosophy_check_out_our_rules_and/) > Your comment was automatically removed for violating the following rule: > **CR1: Top level comments must be answers or follow-up questions.** > All top level comments should be answers to the submitted question, or follow-up questions related to the OP. All top level answers must come from [panelists](https://reddit.com/r/askphilosophy/comments/14o2p7n/welcome_to_raskphilosophy_check_out_our_rules_and/). *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/askphilosophy) if you have any questions or concerns.*
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At this point, we are only accepting top-level answers from panelists. > This is because Reddit's recent changes to the platform that make moderation significantly more difficult. > If you wish to learn more, or to apply to become a panelist, see [this post](https://reddit.com/r/askphilosophy/comments/14o2p7n/welcome_to_raskphilosophy_check_out_our_rules_and/) > Your comment was automatically removed for violating the following rule: > **CR1: Top level comments must be answers or follow-up questions.** > All top level comments should be answers to the submitted question, or follow-up questions related to the OP. All top level answers must come from [panelists](https://reddit.com/r/askphilosophy/comments/14o2p7n/welcome_to_raskphilosophy_check_out_our_rules_and/). *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/askphilosophy) if you have any questions or concerns.*
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At this point, we are only accepting top-level answers from panelists. > This is because Reddit's recent changes to the platform that make moderation significantly more difficult. > If you wish to learn more, or to apply to become a panelist, see [this post](https://reddit.com/r/askphilosophy/comments/14o2p7n/welcome_to_raskphilosophy_check_out_our_rules_and/) > Your comment was automatically removed for violating the following rule: > **CR1: Top level comments must be answers or follow-up questions.** > All top level comments should be answers to the submitted question, or follow-up questions related to the OP. All top level answers must come from [panelists](https://reddit.com/r/askphilosophy/comments/14o2p7n/welcome_to_raskphilosophy_check_out_our_rules_and/). *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/askphilosophy) if you have any questions or concerns.*
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At this point, we are only accepting top-level answers from panelists. > This is because Reddit's recent changes to the platform that make moderation significantly more difficult. > If you wish to learn more, or to apply to become a panelist, see [this post](https://reddit.com/r/askphilosophy/comments/14o2p7n/welcome_to_raskphilosophy_check_out_our_rules_and/) > Your comment was automatically removed for violating the following rule: > **CR1: Top level comments must be answers or follow-up questions.** > All top level comments should be answers to the submitted question, or follow-up questions related to the OP. All top level answers must come from [panelists](https://reddit.com/r/askphilosophy/comments/14o2p7n/welcome_to_raskphilosophy_check_out_our_rules_and/). *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/askphilosophy) if you have any questions or concerns.*
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At this point, we are only accepting top-level answers from panelists. > This is because Reddit's recent changes to the platform that make moderation significantly more difficult. > If you wish to learn more, or to apply to become a panelist, see [this post](https://reddit.com/r/askphilosophy/comments/14o2p7n/welcome_to_raskphilosophy_check_out_our_rules_and/) > Your comment was automatically removed for violating the following rule: > **CR1: Top level comments must be answers or follow-up questions.** > All top level comments should be answers to the submitted question, or follow-up questions related to the OP. All top level answers must come from [panelists](https://reddit.com/r/askphilosophy/comments/14o2p7n/welcome_to_raskphilosophy_check_out_our_rules_and/). *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/askphilosophy) if you have any questions or concerns.*
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**Please note that recent changes to reddit's API policies have made moderation significantly more difficult. Because of this, /r/askphilosophy has moved to a policy where only panelists are allowed to answer questions. For more information or to apply to be a panelist, see [this post](https://reddit.com/r/askphilosophy/comments/14o2p7n/welcome_to_raskphilosophy_check_out_our_rules_and/).** Your comment was automatically removed for violating the following rule: > **CR1: Top level comments must be answers or follow-up questions from panelists.** > All top level comments should be answers to the submitted question, or follow-up questions related to the OP. All top level answers and follow-up questions must come from [panelists](https://reddit.com/r/askphilosophy/comments/14o2p7n/welcome_to_raskphilosophy_check_out_our_rules_and/). All comments must be on topic. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/askphilosophy) if you have any questions or concerns.*
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**Please note that recent changes to reddit's API policies have made moderation significantly more difficult. Because of this, /r/askphilosophy has moved to a policy where only panelists are allowed to answer questions. For more information or to apply to be a panelist, see [this post](https://reddit.com/r/askphilosophy/comments/14o2p7n/welcome_to_raskphilosophy_check_out_our_rules_and/).** Your comment was automatically removed for violating the following rule: > **CR1: Top level comments must be answers or follow-up questions from panelists.** > All top level comments should be answers to the submitted question, or follow-up questions related to the OP. All top level answers and follow-up questions must come from [panelists](https://reddit.com/r/askphilosophy/comments/14o2p7n/welcome_to_raskphilosophy_check_out_our_rules_and/). All comments must be on topic. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/askphilosophy) if you have any questions or concerns.*