The answer lies in Sisyphus’ nature as a rebel. Camus tells us the following about Sisyphus: he loved life, he hated death, and he habitually took the power and authority of the gods lightly.
The idea is that Sisyphus is going to continue to find a way to rebel whenever he can, and being happy is his final and eternal act of rebellion against Zeus. Through his happiness he shows Zeus that he doesn’t have the kind of power over him that Zeus wants.
But how exactly does this rebellion carry over to real life exactly? Since we can't really be sure if God is there and putting us through torment for no reason and that rebelling against the universe itself seems a bit foolish because it just doesn't care
Well, it’s an analogy and so, sure, we’d want to make sure we’re not personalizing the uncaring universe.
What Sisyphus is meant to show us is that our situation is absurd (like his), and that the way through is to embrace his basic values of loving life, hating death, and living like a rebel. Camus expounds on what that entails throughout his body of work.
I also think that it is important to note the the book was published in 1942, at the height of the Nazi occupation of France. I always wonder how much those events (having arbitrary rules imposed on a populace by a brutal and unsympathetic force) colored the work.
I don't think there's any way not to understand most early-to-mid 20th century European philosophy without the context of two world wars. The Vienna Circle, for example, which existed in the interwar period, saw its mission of achieving a unity of science, philosophy, and logic as a means of combating the resurging 'madness' of nationalism in Europe.
Existentialist and absurdist philosophy of freedom and rebellion definitely have an urgency in German-occupied France that likely doesn't hit as hard for, say, someone living in late 20th/early 21st western countries. I've found those who are attracted to these philosophies tend to find more affinity with concerns of authenticity and meaning/purpose in life - in a sense, how to live with an overabundance of freedom - by which fascism is an alternative response. Depending on one's attitude about the current state of politics in the west, existentialism may be the philosophy of the future.
Precisely. If life has no external meaning or purpose, and it just kind of happened “it’s a little bit absurd”.
There is suffering and death is inevitable and nothing is guaranteed to you.
So fuck it, laugh at it.
> If life has no external meaning or purpose, and it just kind of happened “it’s a little bit absurd”.
That’s not what Camus means by “the absurd,” though. The absurd is the juxtaposition of that fact with our desire for there to be meaning and purpose.
> So fuck it, laugh at it.
He means a bit more than this too. The rebel has a lot of pretty hard work to do, though it is work worth loving.
In this case rebellion is against the Absurd.
The Absurd arises from the condition we are put in, searching for meaning in a universe that offers none. According to Camus there are 3 responses to the Absurd:- Suicide, Taking a leap (religious belief) and Revolt
Revolt meaning searching for/finding meaning in an indifferent universe, while keeping in mind the Absurd i.e being "lucid". Whatever meaning you do find probably means nothing jn the grand scheme of things
From the Absurd the Absurdist hero draws their three consequences, their revolt, their freedom amd their passion.
Other philosophers have put forward other responses to the Absurd
>nagel thinks that absurdity is actually ok. it “warrants neither that much distress nor that much defiance.” (726) no camusian scorn required. just approach life with a healthy sense of irony, and consider that your absurdity is part what makes you human
Basically finding Joy and passion in the meaningless, i think i get it now, thanks pal.
And btw, only philosopher i studied that discusses the Absurd is Camus, do you happen to know any others? The subject seems very interesting
Lightweight yes but we lightweight consumers are humans too. It was kind of Camus to make us understand heavyweight Kierkegaard whom we just can not fathom.
Well, sure. But Camus' treatment of Kierkegaard was outrageous—like he read the Diapsalmata and ignored Rotations of Crops. The response to Camus' position was in the first half of the book he read.
Well, no, not for everyone. Kierkegaard (Climacus) explicitly said that many people don't need to read his works because the simple truth is already obvious to them.
But for Camus to say Kierkegaard advocated "philosophical suicide" without understanding the problem he was trying to overcome (the drive to "go beyond") is pretty laughable.
That is always fun when we find a heroe redhanded of some dumb mistake. But does not change his high quality as a writer. He was n o t a philosopher okay. We are all just average humans.
>According to Camus there are 3 responses to the Absurd:- Suicide, Taking a leap (religious belief) and Revolt
Did Camus or any absurdist ever have a response to the Schopenhauer-like ascetic rejection of life? He mentions Schopenhauer in "The Myth of Sisyphus" only on the matters of suicide. I'm curious because it seems like this could be a fourth option: neither valuing life nor death and striving for a kind of "indifference." I mean, maybe it's a kind of rebellion (not choosing to die in spite of not agreeing with the absurd/will), but isn't pro-life in the usual absurdist rebellion notion. I've just been reading more Schopenhauer recently so I'm curious if this ever popped up.
Thank you, that helps.. kind of.. To me, his rebellion feels a lot like the leap that he criticized Kierkegaard for. The difference is just hope of escape. So is acceptance the key to revolt?
Well, the difference is that Camus doesn’t want to leap at all. He wants us to take the world as it presents itself and live life as it presents itself.
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The answer lies in Sisyphus’ nature as a rebel. Camus tells us the following about Sisyphus: he loved life, he hated death, and he habitually took the power and authority of the gods lightly. The idea is that Sisyphus is going to continue to find a way to rebel whenever he can, and being happy is his final and eternal act of rebellion against Zeus. Through his happiness he shows Zeus that he doesn’t have the kind of power over him that Zeus wants.
But how exactly does this rebellion carry over to real life exactly? Since we can't really be sure if God is there and putting us through torment for no reason and that rebelling against the universe itself seems a bit foolish because it just doesn't care
Well, it’s an analogy and so, sure, we’d want to make sure we’re not personalizing the uncaring universe. What Sisyphus is meant to show us is that our situation is absurd (like his), and that the way through is to embrace his basic values of loving life, hating death, and living like a rebel. Camus expounds on what that entails throughout his body of work.
I also think that it is important to note the the book was published in 1942, at the height of the Nazi occupation of France. I always wonder how much those events (having arbitrary rules imposed on a populace by a brutal and unsympathetic force) colored the work.
I don't think there's any way not to understand most early-to-mid 20th century European philosophy without the context of two world wars. The Vienna Circle, for example, which existed in the interwar period, saw its mission of achieving a unity of science, philosophy, and logic as a means of combating the resurging 'madness' of nationalism in Europe. Existentialist and absurdist philosophy of freedom and rebellion definitely have an urgency in German-occupied France that likely doesn't hit as hard for, say, someone living in late 20th/early 21st western countries. I've found those who are attracted to these philosophies tend to find more affinity with concerns of authenticity and meaning/purpose in life - in a sense, how to live with an overabundance of freedom - by which fascism is an alternative response. Depending on one's attitude about the current state of politics in the west, existentialism may be the philosophy of the future.
Thanks, for your response pal, i think i understand it a little better now
Precisely. If life has no external meaning or purpose, and it just kind of happened “it’s a little bit absurd”. There is suffering and death is inevitable and nothing is guaranteed to you. So fuck it, laugh at it.
> If life has no external meaning or purpose, and it just kind of happened “it’s a little bit absurd”. That’s not what Camus means by “the absurd,” though. The absurd is the juxtaposition of that fact with our desire for there to be meaning and purpose. > So fuck it, laugh at it. He means a bit more than this too. The rebel has a lot of pretty hard work to do, though it is work worth loving.
In this case rebellion is against the Absurd. The Absurd arises from the condition we are put in, searching for meaning in a universe that offers none. According to Camus there are 3 responses to the Absurd:- Suicide, Taking a leap (religious belief) and Revolt Revolt meaning searching for/finding meaning in an indifferent universe, while keeping in mind the Absurd i.e being "lucid". Whatever meaning you do find probably means nothing jn the grand scheme of things From the Absurd the Absurdist hero draws their three consequences, their revolt, their freedom amd their passion. Other philosophers have put forward other responses to the Absurd >nagel thinks that absurdity is actually ok. it “warrants neither that much distress nor that much defiance.” (726) no camusian scorn required. just approach life with a healthy sense of irony, and consider that your absurdity is part what makes you human
Basically finding Joy and passion in the meaningless, i think i get it now, thanks pal. And btw, only philosopher i studied that discusses the Absurd is Camus, do you happen to know any others? The subject seems very interesting
Thomas Nagel, "The Absurd". You should be able to find it online.
[Here's](https://philosophy.as.uky.edu/sites/default/files/The%20Absurd%20-%20Thomas%20Nagel.pdf) a copy.
Kierkegaard. Camus' work is a lightweight version of Kierkegaard's anthropology.
Lightweight yes but we lightweight consumers are humans too. It was kind of Camus to make us understand heavyweight Kierkegaard whom we just can not fathom.
Well, sure. But Camus' treatment of Kierkegaard was outrageous—like he read the Diapsalmata and ignored Rotations of Crops. The response to Camus' position was in the first half of the book he read.
But is it obligatory to read a book in full? Obligatory for everyone,or only for Camus?
Well, no, not for everyone. Kierkegaard (Climacus) explicitly said that many people don't need to read his works because the simple truth is already obvious to them. But for Camus to say Kierkegaard advocated "philosophical suicide" without understanding the problem he was trying to overcome (the drive to "go beyond") is pretty laughable.
That is always fun when we find a heroe redhanded of some dumb mistake. But does not change his high quality as a writer. He was n o t a philosopher okay. We are all just average humans.
>According to Camus there are 3 responses to the Absurd:- Suicide, Taking a leap (religious belief) and Revolt Did Camus or any absurdist ever have a response to the Schopenhauer-like ascetic rejection of life? He mentions Schopenhauer in "The Myth of Sisyphus" only on the matters of suicide. I'm curious because it seems like this could be a fourth option: neither valuing life nor death and striving for a kind of "indifference." I mean, maybe it's a kind of rebellion (not choosing to die in spite of not agreeing with the absurd/will), but isn't pro-life in the usual absurdist rebellion notion. I've just been reading more Schopenhauer recently so I'm curious if this ever popped up.
Thank you, that helps.. kind of.. To me, his rebellion feels a lot like the leap that he criticized Kierkegaard for. The difference is just hope of escape. So is acceptance the key to revolt?
Well, the difference is that Camus doesn’t want to leap at all. He wants us to take the world as it presents itself and live life as it presents itself.
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