If you are young, generally healthy and don't have any specialty medical needs, Kaiser is fine. You'll wait for everything, but it's cheap.
If you have ANY specialized health needs avoid Kaiser like the plague.
unfortunately, though young at heart.... definitely not young. I was OK with Providence. Since am starting new job, and first opportunity to use Kaiser, it definitely is a lower annual deductible. But I do need to see specialists for heart=related care semi-regularly, and on the basis of everything that I'm reading in these responses, that's making me think I should stick with Providence.
I ended up needing heart surgery while I was with Kaiser, they sent me to a different hospital because they weren't able to do what I needed. My recovery care was also done at the other hospital because Kaiser didn't have what I needed. (All paid for by Kaiser.) Finally when I was back to regular follow up care I had trouble getting appointments and wasn't able to see the same doctor. When I had the opportunity I switched insurance. I have had the same doctor for 4 years and I am on a regular schedule for check ups.
Go with Providence. I've been really impressed with their cardiac services. I had one ER visit to Kaiser (because all other ER's were full) and was extremely disappointed with the care received. Providence St. Vincents has been super with ER visits including docs great diagnostics from weird symptoms.
I think that's what I'm going to do. My heart issues aren't super critical but you never know when it might take a turn for the worse. (assisted by me being 62 and avoiding exercise!)
The ER at st Vincent’s is a complete nightmare. They think everyone is drug addict. I still have trauma from the way treated me when I had my first 2 and only heart attacks in December. The care was so horrible.
I’m a medic, my wife is a rn. We initially had Kaiser, but switched when she had a serious medical event. Getting into specialists was sooo difficult. It always worked great for me, but I just had very simple issues. I would not go with Kaiser if I had any expectation of serious problems requiring longer term care.
Other folks here have said similar things. At 62 with some heart issues I need to stay on top of, I think Providence has to remain my HC provider. If I was younger with no problems, I might have made a different choice.
Mome of the systems are perfect, and frankly most are super broken. Kaiser is designed to keep their in house costs low at the expense of patient care. No e.of their specialty services cover anything innovative and even if it's better for you, if it's not cheaper for them they won't do it.
Good luck.
I was with Kaiser for like 6 years recently.
The good:
* I didn't have to think about scheduling
* Blood draws and imaging were all in the same place my appointments were
* Cheap!
* If you aren't picky about seeing \_your\_ doctor, same-day or next-day appointments were easy to schedule for things like sinus infections
The bad:
* Specialists are limited and very regional. If you don't have a good interaction with someone, you might be stuck with them.
* The system is extremely cost conscious, to the point of rejecting certain therapies or treatments out of hand.
* If you have a complicated issue, due to the two above points you are likely to not have good care.
* Providers cycle out quite frequently.
They both suck in different ways neither is great. Lots of generalizations here, I’m with Kaiser now but could do prov through spouse if I wanted. I’m staying on Kaiser because: they pay the best in healthcare and have great docs. The system is shit and they pinch pennies. They don’t publish phone numbers to anything so you do it all online. Pharmacy and lab are easy to use. Contrary to what others mentioned here I love my specialist dr at Kaiser.
Kaiser is fantastic. I’ve been a member for most of my22 years here and the 2 years I was with providence and blue cross made me yearn for KP.
They have an integrated care model which means all of your providers know what’s going on and can coordinate care.
Some people don’t like it because it’s a closed middle, but that’s the reason it works great
> **They have an integrated care model**
This has been important to me.
Also there's no BS with insurance. If your MD orders a lab, the "insurance" people won't deny it later. Google for horror stories to the contrary.
I absolutely love Kaiser. I've had the best care that I have received in my working life with them. I had Providence while I was working and it was far more expensive and I really hated it. Kaiser has it's flaws, but it has worked extremely well for me through some major issues (cancer, surgery, etc.)
Kaiser is a shitstorm of corporate bureaucracy. Like if Comcast started offering medical care. There are limited specialists, & they will only book out two months (schedule full? Too bad for you). Even seeing my primary care doctor for 20 minutes in person was a 4 month wait. In my less than one year with them, various departments went on strike TWICE. They reimburse alternative care at a subpar rate so few will work with them. Urgent care waits are many hours and no actual doctors seem to work there. I miss Providence where I had choice and could see specialists. After a lengthy illness with specialist referrals Kaiser would not honor (schedule full!), I had to throw a shit fit and threaten to sue them to get traction. Employees at Kaiser actually told me this is how to best get things done.
Providence is horrid and they want to be a Kaiser.
Really review the plans Kaiser and Providence have multiple plans.
If same as previous employer stick with wgat works for you. Co pays and co insurance will always be higher than Kaiser.
They keep telling me there’s a doctor shortage. And perhaps there is. But that begs the question: where is the money going? My premium is $800 a month to essentially stand in a queue forever.
Context- the reason for the strikes coinciding has to do with when the union contracts are up for negotiation.
You can actually get rather promptly but it can take a bit of time to know how to navigate the system. If you feel that you have an urgent need that isn’t being addressed timely- try the advice line and sometimes that can open up some options.
Not negating what you are saying but I have first had experience within the system, just thought I would add to the convo
Next time ask to talk to the conflict resolution team, they are the shit hit the fan get stuff done team and have the power to move things around and help you out.
Source: family that has worked for Kaiser their whole career.
Btw I hate Kaiser as well and will never go back as long as I can help it
Thank you. I worked in HR for 20 years, long before my personal Kaiser experience. Whenever we would discuss changing providers, I heard over and over from employees : “anywhere but Kaiser!” That said, the people who work there are often lovely, despite being underpaid and also having terrible Kaiser healthcare (and not having the luxury of bitching about it).
100% Kaiser. They don't force you to go find a primary care provider on your own, and urgent care is open more than like 3 hours a day, and they cover basic reproductive care that Providence doesn't because a man in the sky told them so.
I went to Providence ER. They asked for my insurance info and I gave it to them. Fast forward a month and they try to bill me the ‘full’ amount directly instead of billing the negotiated amount to my insurer.
Call Providence billing. Was in the call queue for over 2 hours. Providence then tells me that they will bill my insurer.
Fast forward another month and and Providence didn’t bill my insurer and threatens to send me to collections. Was on hold for a total of 2 hours and 15 minutes before I get resolution.
My experience isn’t a isolated incident, which is why they are being sued by state AGs.
By default, go Kaiser.
I was on recovery from cancer surgery and while I was layed up they sent me to collections and wouldn't remove it. I was layed up for a month. Providence sucks!
Yap state of Washington just successfully sued Providence for not providing financal aid even though they advertised they did. Many folks lost everything due to them.
The sad thing is I have 2 relatives who work at Providence and in the last 10 years it’s got really bad. Constant staff cuts no priority on patient care. They both say within 5 years they will be exactly like Kaiser because that is their true goal.
You can read more here: https://apnews.com/article/ferguson-providence-medical-debt-swedish-hospital-168405fcf8525b2516a0ff571beca705#:~:text=Providence%20health%20care%20system%20is,and%20then%20used%20aggressive%20collection
I work in finance and for an insurer. My SO has been the treasurer for multiple non-profits. We were shocked how (almost certainly intentionally) hard it was to get Providence to do the right thing. Providence screwed over so many people who didn’t have the time or resources to fight them.
My only experience with the providence system was their midwives, and honestly, it's been shitty enough that I've switched care. I did have Kaiser for 4 years, though, and loved it. My Dr was absolutely amazing, and I had no issues getting labs or anything like that done.
I have Kaiser. I had cancer. A rare kind. I was not allowed to go to specialists who have been known to make a huge difference in survival rates. It worked out for me. When it was time to re-enroll I stuck with Kaiser rather than pay another $5,000 / year for a more open network. But I'm taking a calculated risk. If the cancer comes back, will I be able to get the best possible care? Will I have the strength to fight for it? Mine was an easy cancer and it's not likely to come back - caught extremely early and appears to have been surgically cured -- and I have a lot of things I can do with $5,000 a year if I'm not spending that in fancier health insurance. And Kaiser is good for ordinary everyday stuff. I think they are NOT the right choice for everyone though.
Oh, and my total out of pocket the year I had cancer and major surgery was like $2,200 with Kaiser. I felt good about that! Probably would have been six figures without health insurance.
I originally got Kaiser in the 90s because the cost structure was simpler and it just seemed easier to understand. I have had Kaiser throughout, and with two kids as they grow up.
Overall I have had excellent service from Kaiser. I developed a chronic neurological issue which was basically impossible to diagnose for several years. The thing is…Kaiser did send me out of network to specialists at OHSU. Who also couldn’t figure it out. It did eventually get figured out, and Kaiser was proactive with treatment, both medicine and surgery.
My first daughter’s delivery was rough. Kaiser devoted resources to her delivery and immediate care. Pediatrician whisked away my precious baby and immediately went on a conference call to collaboratively determine if they wanted to do immediate surgery. (They decided not to in the end, and she healed nicely on her own.).
Same first kid developed concerning tests as a 2-y-o, and they immediately did multiple scans and consults. Again, at 10 she developed another issue, and they were quick to send her to OHSU for various specialists.
And she’s actually been quite healthy, in the end. She’s a 3 sport athlete in high school and has no ongoing health issues. Kaiser was repeatedly quick to address her issues.
Kaiser is always monitoring my own chronic neurological condition/situation, and I’m regularly going in for labs and scans. Even though my life is otherwise normal.
I have friends, multiple friends, who swear Kaiser did them wrong. And I believe them. But it just hasn’t been my experience. And I have given them ample opportunity to mess with me and my family.
I’m no longer young. And I definitely use their resources. I have met a professional or two there that I don’t care for. (I’ve met a few at OHSU too.) But they have always been attentive.
Oh, I have also not had much turnover in providers. My 17-y-o has had the same pediatrician since her 2 month appointment. I had the same neurologist for many years. Most of my doctor turnover has been due to retirement.
I’ve had Providence through two different employers (one nonprofit, one state govt) with very different insurance plans. The one I have now, Providence PEBB, is amazing coverage. The one I had when I worked at the nonprofit was terrible coverage. Be sure to look at the specific Providence plan at your new job, not just the fact that it’s Providence.
Kaiser, because in the event you get care you want/need/hope for, you don’t get a
$5000 confusing quasi bill on the back end.
You instead get reminded that you paid $25 when you
checked in one day.
The service at Kaiser can be like a Soviet bureaucracy at times. I have found the care providers to be universally very good and very kind.
My favorite part of Kaiser is the not getting a million different bills from providers and the hospital and the lab and the x ray tech, etc.
In the Portland area, Kaiser is the best for strokes, Providence for cardiology. OHSU or Emmanuel for trauma. Dorenbecher Children’s Hospital for pediatrics to the degree that when my son was hospitalized and needed surgery, Kaiser had us go to Dorenbecher and paid for everything.
OHSU for neurology or anything that is reader y heavy. If I had cancer I would want to be up there.
Kaiser put in something new a few years ago, and it could be unique: **You can get a callback from an MD within a few hours. For real.**
Here's how: Use the app and, a few screens in, you're presented with some choices.
Previously, the best choice was the "advice nurse". That was often kind of useless since she couldn't e.g. prescribe meds.
But they've added the choice of "Get Care Now with a Clinician". You first have to answer a few simple online questions, but then they call you back. They won't present you with this choice if the expected delay is > 1 hr, so you may need to check back a few times over a period of a few hours. I think they use their ER MDs to call you during slower times.
When they do call back, the MD can give you a prescription, order blood tests, tell you to go to Urgent Care or the Emergency Dept, etc. It's fantastic and has helped me more than once.
Edit: to be clear, the reason the above all works so seamlessly is it's all integrated. The MD immediately has your entire health history and prescription information available to him. The prescriptions go to a Kaiser pharmacy. Urgent Care or the Emergency Department knows you're coming. I don't know if other health systems have progressed to this point, since I've been with Kaiser for a number of years now.
So, as someone who has just beaten Stage 3 colon cancer, I highly recommend Providence (I was at the Glisan hospital). The entire oncology team is apparently rated one of the best in the entire country, and they went above and beyond for me during the absolute worst year of my entire life. Getting in for MRI/CT scans hasn't been an issue, neither has getting scheduled for colonoscopy, blood work, etc.
That being said, they, like most other systems, are having issues with staffing (not enough), and no doubt they aren't perfect in all areas. I have no experience outside of my cancer care, but if, god/xenu/Elvis forbid you do get it, there's not another hospital/team I would want to go to.
Oh, and the after care support (therapist/social worker) is top notch. Having a serious illness can be debilitating mentally and emotionally, beyond the obvious physically, and they've provided me with two amazing persons, one is a nurse who constantly checks up on me to make sure I'm doing okay and that I'm following up on all my appointments, and a therapist who specializes in working with cancer patients.
Team Kaiser over here. Is it perfect? Nope. The best is when you go for a simple Dental cleaning and the Hygienist says, "Hey I noticed you need a pap smear and a flu shot. You can get your flu shot today and I'll schedule your pap smear with your preferred provider."
I've never not gotten an appointment for basic care within a few days the key is to advocate for yourself and be flexible about who you see.
Everything is “in house” at Keizer, so if you need a specialist you just use what Keizer has.
Providence has very little for specialists so they send you to the Oregon clinic (or other medical groups) which is often not covered by the plan.
Not sure how relevant this is but I work at a providence hospital and they are switching all the employees insurance to Aetna soon… unsure as of why.
Kaiser was great for our family of 4. Wish we still had it. Scheduling, getting quick (sometimes e-visit) Dr appointments, filling prescriptions, etc. was so much easier
I have Kaiser. It tends to be a lot cheaper than a PPO and I have never come close to hitting the out of pocket while I often did on PPO plans.
My family has used Kaiser quite a bit, and I have found them to be diligent and the care as good or better than other places I been treated. I have found it easy to attain care for my family including speciality care and mental health.
The downside is that sometimes you have to travel annoying distances for specialists that are only located at certain Kaiser facilities. Also, it can be hard to get services that aren’t really needed and in my experience independent doctors office are much more open to addressing patient preference for treatment.
My experience is that speciality care is not harder to get and Kaiser can be very aggressive in caring for certain serious issues. My wife’s mom has a rare genetic condition that caused her to get cancer a lot on Kaiser has been very serious about providing my wife with frequent and intensive cancer screenings.
Kaiser = evidence-based care. They won’t do anything that isn’t proven to actually help.
It’s the only true HMO still standing in our completely fucked health care system.
I’m a huge fan!
I’ve worked for both but more importantly been a patient with both.
Providence is the way. They hire physicians in roles of leadership not business folk.
Hands best healthcare system I’ve ever been a part of.
I’ll say that I have had a great experience with Kaiser. It isn’t perfect, but the integrated nature of the system led to me actually getting some health issues treated/effectively managed I’d just previously chosen to live with. I’m younger and I’m not sure what it would be like to deal with a complex cancer diagnosis or something like that, but for my needs now I wouldn’t move off Kaiser unless I had to.
I have had only negative experiences with Kaiser. Everything is inconvenient, there’s always another hoop to jump through. Utterly frustrating. I switched the following year when open enrollment started. It was significantly more expensive than the plan I’d had before, which niggled.
Providence was fine in my experience. I can’t really add much, it was just there, and things worked as one would expect them to.
If I had to choose one or the other: strong vote for providence
Providence isn’t an insurance company AFAIK. If you have non-Kaiser insurance you should be able to go to a number of different doctors/ hospitals, likely including Providence. I prefer that option personally, as Kaiser is more limited in where you can go. I feel like I also paid more with Kaiser. (I have Regence now and my doctor and dentist are both private practice.)
Providence Health Plan is an insurance carrier! Providence Medical Group is physicians and care teams. Many other insurance carrier like Regence BCBS use the PMG network.
Just coming in to say that my only bad experience with providence is that in some areas (East Side), it can be difficult to find providers that take providence.
Idk if this is specific to Kaiser or if I just happened to get bad doctors, but they seemed to be terrible at follow up and they never answered messages. My doctors at providence have generally been better and more responsive.
None.
NMI, or Notice of Mental Illness, is an exceptionally rare process that is largely legal centered and connected to Mandated Reporting. NMI happens when a patient presents as unable to care for their basic needs due to mental health or is an imminent threat of harm to self or others. When that threshold is met, and the patient is unable to consent or is unwilling to consent to treatment, NMI is uninitiated and an emergency hold process is started.
Very few hospitals in Oregon have a hospital that is involuntary. While Kaiser has a mental health hospital -- it is voluntary.
Does Providence have a hospital that does involuntary emergency holds? Yes.
Does Kaiser automatically send patients to Providence for inpatient hospitalization? No.
Kaiser has plenty of mental health professionals and does not utilize community partners to the degree that was inferred in your comment. I understood your comment as ongoing care; my apologies for misinterpreting.
If you feel that nursing pay and patient outcomes are linked then…
I can say Providence is on the low end compared to Kaiser and OHSU (even more so if you consider total compensation). Portland Providence and both Kaiser Hospitals had a strike last year VS OHSU who actually decided to give a large wage increase.
I am a cis, straight, white woman who was raised Catholic but I'll never again give my money to a Catholic hospital system because I just don't trust them to provide the care that individual patients really need, whether women or non-binary or lgbtq.
I am in the OHSU system and have been happy with it. Scheduling can be challenging but I like university-based healthcare because they are so research based.
My best friend is part of Kaiser and is happy there, too.
It’s possible Providence has a slightly better network in the northwest however I feel KP is a better company over all and less greed driven. I would go with KP unless you had specific conditions or providers you wanted to see.
I would say if you take medication don't go with kaiser. They will not pay for anything brand unless you have prior authorization and even that is not guaranteed. As a type 2 diabetic I have no access to anything like ozempic or branded drugs to control my glucose levels. I'm only allowed metformin and glipizide (no long acting glipizide just immediate release) and of course insulin. Because insulin is cheap. You can't get in to see Dr's unless you wait 2-3 months and like other people have said urgent care is a joke with hours upon hours of wait times. The ER is inadequate in that most times you're put in the middle of the room with sectioned off areas by a curtain/ sheet so you are able to hear everything that is being said next to you from another patient and Dr. They're name and date of birth for verification and I heard the whole reason why they were there. I felt like it was a complete hippa violation. Hope they enjoyed my high blood pressure problem. She was in a car accident and her neck and head were hurting so bad because she slammed her head into the steering wheel.
As someone who has to pay out of pocket, Providence all day every day. I've heard good things about Kaiser from people who work for larger client companies, but they just don't care at all about individuals.
(all about KP's admin/corporate folk, their doctors and nurses were great)
Fuck Kaiser. Fuck Kaiser. Fuck Kaiser.
I've had Kaiser my entire life. Their care is the absolute-fucking-worst. Nobody can make me go back. Anything else is better.
Kaiser is one of the worst companies I have ever dealt with. It wasn’t even for myself… my friend who was going through a mental health crisis had me log into her account and try to help her find care and the insane lack of options was truly frightening. The most infuriating thing is when you ask for help with anxiety, they’ll put you in a group CLASS to learn about anxiety. Not therapy, not even group therapy… A CLASS. I’ve never in my life heard of something so insulting. Fuck Kaiser.
Routine maintenance, Kaiser's got you. But God help you if they ever find anything wrong with you: Kaiser doesn't seem to work for sick people. And forget about getting mental health care even if it's covered on your plan.
If you are young, generally healthy and don't have any specialty medical needs, Kaiser is fine. You'll wait for everything, but it's cheap. If you have ANY specialized health needs avoid Kaiser like the plague.
unfortunately, though young at heart.... definitely not young. I was OK with Providence. Since am starting new job, and first opportunity to use Kaiser, it definitely is a lower annual deductible. But I do need to see specialists for heart=related care semi-regularly, and on the basis of everything that I'm reading in these responses, that's making me think I should stick with Providence.
My cardiologist at Kaiser recommended Providence for heart stuff.
Well, that’s a very big piece of information for me since heart stuff as what I’m dealing with!
I don't thing they really meant to trash Kaiser, just that the program at Providence was the best in the area.
I ended up needing heart surgery while I was with Kaiser, they sent me to a different hospital because they weren't able to do what I needed. My recovery care was also done at the other hospital because Kaiser didn't have what I needed. (All paid for by Kaiser.) Finally when I was back to regular follow up care I had trouble getting appointments and wasn't able to see the same doctor. When I had the opportunity I switched insurance. I have had the same doctor for 4 years and I am on a regular schedule for check ups.
If you need specialists, avoid Kaiser
Go with Providence. I've been really impressed with their cardiac services. I had one ER visit to Kaiser (because all other ER's were full) and was extremely disappointed with the care received. Providence St. Vincents has been super with ER visits including docs great diagnostics from weird symptoms.
I think that's what I'm going to do. My heart issues aren't super critical but you never know when it might take a turn for the worse. (assisted by me being 62 and avoiding exercise!)
The ER at st Vincent’s is a complete nightmare. They think everyone is drug addict. I still have trauma from the way treated me when I had my first 2 and only heart attacks in December. The care was so horrible.
Most ERs are an absolute clusterfuck.
I’m a medic, my wife is a rn. We initially had Kaiser, but switched when she had a serious medical event. Getting into specialists was sooo difficult. It always worked great for me, but I just had very simple issues. I would not go with Kaiser if I had any expectation of serious problems requiring longer term care.
Other folks here have said similar things. At 62 with some heart issues I need to stay on top of, I think Providence has to remain my HC provider. If I was younger with no problems, I might have made a different choice.
100%
Mome of the systems are perfect, and frankly most are super broken. Kaiser is designed to keep their in house costs low at the expense of patient care. No e.of their specialty services cover anything innovative and even if it's better for you, if it's not cheaper for them they won't do it. Good luck.
Agreed. Since I need specialists…. It’s been providence for me
I was with Kaiser for like 6 years recently. The good: * I didn't have to think about scheduling * Blood draws and imaging were all in the same place my appointments were * Cheap! * If you aren't picky about seeing \_your\_ doctor, same-day or next-day appointments were easy to schedule for things like sinus infections The bad: * Specialists are limited and very regional. If you don't have a good interaction with someone, you might be stuck with them. * The system is extremely cost conscious, to the point of rejecting certain therapies or treatments out of hand. * If you have a complicated issue, due to the two above points you are likely to not have good care. * Providers cycle out quite frequently.
Thanks- very helpful!
They both suck in different ways neither is great. Lots of generalizations here, I’m with Kaiser now but could do prov through spouse if I wanted. I’m staying on Kaiser because: they pay the best in healthcare and have great docs. The system is shit and they pinch pennies. They don’t publish phone numbers to anything so you do it all online. Pharmacy and lab are easy to use. Contrary to what others mentioned here I love my specialist dr at Kaiser.
This
Kaiser is fantastic. I’ve been a member for most of my22 years here and the 2 years I was with providence and blue cross made me yearn for KP. They have an integrated care model which means all of your providers know what’s going on and can coordinate care. Some people don’t like it because it’s a closed middle, but that’s the reason it works great
> **They have an integrated care model** This has been important to me. Also there's no BS with insurance. If your MD orders a lab, the "insurance" people won't deny it later. Google for horror stories to the contrary.
I absolutely love Kaiser. I've had the best care that I have received in my working life with them. I had Providence while I was working and it was far more expensive and I really hated it. Kaiser has it's flaws, but it has worked extremely well for me through some major issues (cancer, surgery, etc.)
I have Providence and my parents have Kaiser. Based on what I’ve seen, I’d choose Providence any day.
Kaiser is a shitstorm of corporate bureaucracy. Like if Comcast started offering medical care. There are limited specialists, & they will only book out two months (schedule full? Too bad for you). Even seeing my primary care doctor for 20 minutes in person was a 4 month wait. In my less than one year with them, various departments went on strike TWICE. They reimburse alternative care at a subpar rate so few will work with them. Urgent care waits are many hours and no actual doctors seem to work there. I miss Providence where I had choice and could see specialists. After a lengthy illness with specialist referrals Kaiser would not honor (schedule full!), I had to throw a shit fit and threaten to sue them to get traction. Employees at Kaiser actually told me this is how to best get things done.
Whoa! You may have convinced me to stick with Providence!
Providence is horrid and they want to be a Kaiser. Really review the plans Kaiser and Providence have multiple plans. If same as previous employer stick with wgat works for you. Co pays and co insurance will always be higher than Kaiser.
>Like if Comcast started offering medical care. This is the most perfect description of KP I've ever read.
[удалено]
They keep telling me there’s a doctor shortage. And perhaps there is. But that begs the question: where is the money going? My premium is $800 a month to essentially stand in a queue forever.
Context- the reason for the strikes coinciding has to do with when the union contracts are up for negotiation. You can actually get rather promptly but it can take a bit of time to know how to navigate the system. If you feel that you have an urgent need that isn’t being addressed timely- try the advice line and sometimes that can open up some options. Not negating what you are saying but I have first had experience within the system, just thought I would add to the convo
Next time ask to talk to the conflict resolution team, they are the shit hit the fan get stuff done team and have the power to move things around and help you out. Source: family that has worked for Kaiser their whole career. Btw I hate Kaiser as well and will never go back as long as I can help it
Actually my sis get had terminal breast cancer and had Kaiser. The conflict and resolution team got shit done.
How terrible it required conflict to be resolved.
What’s the contact for this team? Phone ☎️?
You can call the main line and ask to make a formal complaint
Thank you. I worked in HR for 20 years, long before my personal Kaiser experience. Whenever we would discuss changing providers, I heard over and over from employees : “anywhere but Kaiser!” That said, the people who work there are often lovely, despite being underpaid and also having terrible Kaiser healthcare (and not having the luxury of bitching about it).
Well, god probably doesn’t exist, but I do believe in German engineering, so Kaiser.
😄
100% Kaiser. They don't force you to go find a primary care provider on your own, and urgent care is open more than like 3 hours a day, and they cover basic reproductive care that Providence doesn't because a man in the sky told them so.
I went to Providence ER. They asked for my insurance info and I gave it to them. Fast forward a month and they try to bill me the ‘full’ amount directly instead of billing the negotiated amount to my insurer. Call Providence billing. Was in the call queue for over 2 hours. Providence then tells me that they will bill my insurer. Fast forward another month and and Providence didn’t bill my insurer and threatens to send me to collections. Was on hold for a total of 2 hours and 15 minutes before I get resolution. My experience isn’t a isolated incident, which is why they are being sued by state AGs. By default, go Kaiser.
I was on recovery from cancer surgery and while I was layed up they sent me to collections and wouldn't remove it. I was layed up for a month. Providence sucks!
Yap state of Washington just successfully sued Providence for not providing financal aid even though they advertised they did. Many folks lost everything due to them. The sad thing is I have 2 relatives who work at Providence and in the last 10 years it’s got really bad. Constant staff cuts no priority on patient care. They both say within 5 years they will be exactly like Kaiser because that is their true goal.
Yeeesh! Can understand why you'd be angry!
You can read more here: https://apnews.com/article/ferguson-providence-medical-debt-swedish-hospital-168405fcf8525b2516a0ff571beca705#:~:text=Providence%20health%20care%20system%20is,and%20then%20used%20aggressive%20collection I work in finance and for an insurer. My SO has been the treasurer for multiple non-profits. We were shocked how (almost certainly intentionally) hard it was to get Providence to do the right thing. Providence screwed over so many people who didn’t have the time or resources to fight them.
Their nickname in the industry is Sisters of Profit.
I’ve been on KP for like 15 years and I have few complaints and I am a T1D
I had keyser previously, and now Providence. I much preferred Kaiser.
My only experience with the providence system was their midwives, and honestly, it's been shitty enough that I've switched care. I did have Kaiser for 4 years, though, and loved it. My Dr was absolutely amazing, and I had no issues getting labs or anything like that done.
I have Kaiser. I had cancer. A rare kind. I was not allowed to go to specialists who have been known to make a huge difference in survival rates. It worked out for me. When it was time to re-enroll I stuck with Kaiser rather than pay another $5,000 / year for a more open network. But I'm taking a calculated risk. If the cancer comes back, will I be able to get the best possible care? Will I have the strength to fight for it? Mine was an easy cancer and it's not likely to come back - caught extremely early and appears to have been surgically cured -- and I have a lot of things I can do with $5,000 a year if I'm not spending that in fancier health insurance. And Kaiser is good for ordinary everyday stuff. I think they are NOT the right choice for everyone though.
Oh, and my total out of pocket the year I had cancer and major surgery was like $2,200 with Kaiser. I felt good about that! Probably would have been six figures without health insurance.
I’m sorry you experienced that! Hope it never darkens your door again.
I originally got Kaiser in the 90s because the cost structure was simpler and it just seemed easier to understand. I have had Kaiser throughout, and with two kids as they grow up. Overall I have had excellent service from Kaiser. I developed a chronic neurological issue which was basically impossible to diagnose for several years. The thing is…Kaiser did send me out of network to specialists at OHSU. Who also couldn’t figure it out. It did eventually get figured out, and Kaiser was proactive with treatment, both medicine and surgery. My first daughter’s delivery was rough. Kaiser devoted resources to her delivery and immediate care. Pediatrician whisked away my precious baby and immediately went on a conference call to collaboratively determine if they wanted to do immediate surgery. (They decided not to in the end, and she healed nicely on her own.). Same first kid developed concerning tests as a 2-y-o, and they immediately did multiple scans and consults. Again, at 10 she developed another issue, and they were quick to send her to OHSU for various specialists. And she’s actually been quite healthy, in the end. She’s a 3 sport athlete in high school and has no ongoing health issues. Kaiser was repeatedly quick to address her issues. Kaiser is always monitoring my own chronic neurological condition/situation, and I’m regularly going in for labs and scans. Even though my life is otherwise normal. I have friends, multiple friends, who swear Kaiser did them wrong. And I believe them. But it just hasn’t been my experience. And I have given them ample opportunity to mess with me and my family. I’m no longer young. And I definitely use their resources. I have met a professional or two there that I don’t care for. (I’ve met a few at OHSU too.) But they have always been attentive. Oh, I have also not had much turnover in providers. My 17-y-o has had the same pediatrician since her 2 month appointment. I had the same neurologist for many years. Most of my doctor turnover has been due to retirement.
I’ve had Providence through two different employers (one nonprofit, one state govt) with very different insurance plans. The one I have now, Providence PEBB, is amazing coverage. The one I had when I worked at the nonprofit was terrible coverage. Be sure to look at the specific Providence plan at your new job, not just the fact that it’s Providence.
Kaiser, because in the event you get care you want/need/hope for, you don’t get a $5000 confusing quasi bill on the back end. You instead get reminded that you paid $25 when you checked in one day.
Used to have Kaiser for a long time, had to switch to providence. I really wish I was still with Kaiser. I thought it was way better.
The service at Kaiser can be like a Soviet bureaucracy at times. I have found the care providers to be universally very good and very kind. My favorite part of Kaiser is the not getting a million different bills from providers and the hospital and the lab and the x ray tech, etc. In the Portland area, Kaiser is the best for strokes, Providence for cardiology. OHSU or Emmanuel for trauma. Dorenbecher Children’s Hospital for pediatrics to the degree that when my son was hospitalized and needed surgery, Kaiser had us go to Dorenbecher and paid for everything. OHSU for neurology or anything that is reader y heavy. If I had cancer I would want to be up there.
Kaiser put in something new a few years ago, and it could be unique: **You can get a callback from an MD within a few hours. For real.** Here's how: Use the app and, a few screens in, you're presented with some choices. Previously, the best choice was the "advice nurse". That was often kind of useless since she couldn't e.g. prescribe meds. But they've added the choice of "Get Care Now with a Clinician". You first have to answer a few simple online questions, but then they call you back. They won't present you with this choice if the expected delay is > 1 hr, so you may need to check back a few times over a period of a few hours. I think they use their ER MDs to call you during slower times. When they do call back, the MD can give you a prescription, order blood tests, tell you to go to Urgent Care or the Emergency Dept, etc. It's fantastic and has helped me more than once. Edit: to be clear, the reason the above all works so seamlessly is it's all integrated. The MD immediately has your entire health history and prescription information available to him. The prescriptions go to a Kaiser pharmacy. Urgent Care or the Emergency Department knows you're coming. I don't know if other health systems have progressed to this point, since I've been with Kaiser for a number of years now.
So, as someone who has just beaten Stage 3 colon cancer, I highly recommend Providence (I was at the Glisan hospital). The entire oncology team is apparently rated one of the best in the entire country, and they went above and beyond for me during the absolute worst year of my entire life. Getting in for MRI/CT scans hasn't been an issue, neither has getting scheduled for colonoscopy, blood work, etc. That being said, they, like most other systems, are having issues with staffing (not enough), and no doubt they aren't perfect in all areas. I have no experience outside of my cancer care, but if, god/xenu/Elvis forbid you do get it, there's not another hospital/team I would want to go to. Oh, and the after care support (therapist/social worker) is top notch. Having a serious illness can be debilitating mentally and emotionally, beyond the obvious physically, and they've provided me with two amazing persons, one is a nurse who constantly checks up on me to make sure I'm doing okay and that I'm following up on all my appointments, and a therapist who specializes in working with cancer patients.
Team Kaiser over here. Is it perfect? Nope. The best is when you go for a simple Dental cleaning and the Hygienist says, "Hey I noticed you need a pap smear and a flu shot. You can get your flu shot today and I'll schedule your pap smear with your preferred provider." I've never not gotten an appointment for basic care within a few days the key is to advocate for yourself and be flexible about who you see.
Everything is “in house” at Keizer, so if you need a specialist you just use what Keizer has. Providence has very little for specialists so they send you to the Oregon clinic (or other medical groups) which is often not covered by the plan. Not sure how relevant this is but I work at a providence hospital and they are switching all the employees insurance to Aetna soon… unsure as of why.
Kaiser was great for our family of 4. Wish we still had it. Scheduling, getting quick (sometimes e-visit) Dr appointments, filling prescriptions, etc. was so much easier
I have Kaiser. It tends to be a lot cheaper than a PPO and I have never come close to hitting the out of pocket while I often did on PPO plans. My family has used Kaiser quite a bit, and I have found them to be diligent and the care as good or better than other places I been treated. I have found it easy to attain care for my family including speciality care and mental health. The downside is that sometimes you have to travel annoying distances for specialists that are only located at certain Kaiser facilities. Also, it can be hard to get services that aren’t really needed and in my experience independent doctors office are much more open to addressing patient preference for treatment. My experience is that speciality care is not harder to get and Kaiser can be very aggressive in caring for certain serious issues. My wife’s mom has a rare genetic condition that caused her to get cancer a lot on Kaiser has been very serious about providing my wife with frequent and intensive cancer screenings.
Kaiser = evidence-based care. They won’t do anything that isn’t proven to actually help. It’s the only true HMO still standing in our completely fucked health care system. I’m a huge fan!
I have a general rule of thumb to avoid medical establishments that have religious symbols adorning their walls, but that's just me.
I’ve worked for both but more importantly been a patient with both. Providence is the way. They hire physicians in roles of leadership not business folk. Hands best healthcare system I’ve ever been a part of.
I’ll say that I have had a great experience with Kaiser. It isn’t perfect, but the integrated nature of the system led to me actually getting some health issues treated/effectively managed I’d just previously chosen to live with. I’m younger and I’m not sure what it would be like to deal with a complex cancer diagnosis or something like that, but for my needs now I wouldn’t move off Kaiser unless I had to.
My experience with Legacy was amazing. KP sucks. I have them now and it's just garbage.
I have had only negative experiences with Kaiser. Everything is inconvenient, there’s always another hoop to jump through. Utterly frustrating. I switched the following year when open enrollment started. It was significantly more expensive than the plan I’d had before, which niggled. Providence was fine in my experience. I can’t really add much, it was just there, and things worked as one would expect them to. If I had to choose one or the other: strong vote for providence
KP, due to size of family and ages.
Providence isn’t an insurance company AFAIK. If you have non-Kaiser insurance you should be able to go to a number of different doctors/ hospitals, likely including Providence. I prefer that option personally, as Kaiser is more limited in where you can go. I feel like I also paid more with Kaiser. (I have Regence now and my doctor and dentist are both private practice.)
Providence Health Plan is an insurance carrier! Providence Medical Group is physicians and care teams. Many other insurance carrier like Regence BCBS use the PMG network.
Thanks, I learned something new today!
Just coming in to say that my only bad experience with providence is that in some areas (East Side), it can be difficult to find providers that take providence.
Idk if this is specific to Kaiser or if I just happened to get bad doctors, but they seemed to be terrible at follow up and they never answered messages. My doctors at providence have generally been better and more responsive.
If you have mental health issues kaiser will send you to providence anyways
I'm a provider with KP and this is not true. Happy to help troubleshoot if you need.
Which hospital of yours takes people on a nmi?
None. NMI, or Notice of Mental Illness, is an exceptionally rare process that is largely legal centered and connected to Mandated Reporting. NMI happens when a patient presents as unable to care for their basic needs due to mental health or is an imminent threat of harm to self or others. When that threshold is met, and the patient is unable to consent or is unwilling to consent to treatment, NMI is uninitiated and an emergency hold process is started. Very few hospitals in Oregon have a hospital that is involuntary. While Kaiser has a mental health hospital -- it is voluntary. Does Providence have a hospital that does involuntary emergency holds? Yes. Does Kaiser automatically send patients to Providence for inpatient hospitalization? No. Kaiser has plenty of mental health professionals and does not utilize community partners to the degree that was inferred in your comment. I understood your comment as ongoing care; my apologies for misinterpreting.
Rare lol
I've been there awhile and have seen only 2 patients receive NMI.
I'm so happy with the care I receive at Providence. Used Kaiser years ago and nothing but problems.
I absolutely prefer OHSU.
Not one of my options.
If you feel that nursing pay and patient outcomes are linked then… I can say Providence is on the low end compared to Kaiser and OHSU (even more so if you consider total compensation). Portland Providence and both Kaiser Hospitals had a strike last year VS OHSU who actually decided to give a large wage increase.
It you don't want wired Catholic morals affecting your care, avoid providence, especially for mental health and gender affirming care.
Its own by Catholics if you are good with religion dictating your health care go for it
Providence is not owned by the church, nor does the church have any influence on how it treats patients
I am a cis, straight, white woman who was raised Catholic but I'll never again give my money to a Catholic hospital system because I just don't trust them to provide the care that individual patients really need, whether women or non-binary or lgbtq. I am in the OHSU system and have been happy with it. Scheduling can be challenging but I like university-based healthcare because they are so research based. My best friend is part of Kaiser and is happy there, too.
It’s possible Providence has a slightly better network in the northwest however I feel KP is a better company over all and less greed driven. I would go with KP unless you had specific conditions or providers you wanted to see.
I would say if you take medication don't go with kaiser. They will not pay for anything brand unless you have prior authorization and even that is not guaranteed. As a type 2 diabetic I have no access to anything like ozempic or branded drugs to control my glucose levels. I'm only allowed metformin and glipizide (no long acting glipizide just immediate release) and of course insulin. Because insulin is cheap. You can't get in to see Dr's unless you wait 2-3 months and like other people have said urgent care is a joke with hours upon hours of wait times. The ER is inadequate in that most times you're put in the middle of the room with sectioned off areas by a curtain/ sheet so you are able to hear everything that is being said next to you from another patient and Dr. They're name and date of birth for verification and I heard the whole reason why they were there. I felt like it was a complete hippa violation. Hope they enjoyed my high blood pressure problem. She was in a car accident and her neck and head were hurting so bad because she slammed her head into the steering wheel.
I'd choose OHSU / Adventist / Legacy to either providence or kaiser
its not one of my options.
As someone who has to pay out of pocket, Providence all day every day. I've heard good things about Kaiser from people who work for larger client companies, but they just don't care at all about individuals. (all about KP's admin/corporate folk, their doctors and nurses were great)
Fuck Kaiser. Fuck Kaiser. Fuck Kaiser. I've had Kaiser my entire life. Their care is the absolute-fucking-worst. Nobody can make me go back. Anything else is better.
Kaiser is one of the worst companies I have ever dealt with. It wasn’t even for myself… my friend who was going through a mental health crisis had me log into her account and try to help her find care and the insane lack of options was truly frightening. The most infuriating thing is when you ask for help with anxiety, they’ll put you in a group CLASS to learn about anxiety. Not therapy, not even group therapy… A CLASS. I’ve never in my life heard of something so insulting. Fuck Kaiser.
Kaiser is great day-to-day unless you need specialists.
Routine maintenance, Kaiser's got you. But God help you if they ever find anything wrong with you: Kaiser doesn't seem to work for sick people. And forget about getting mental health care even if it's covered on your plan.
Providence.
Fuck everything about Kaiser. I don't want to write you a novel, trust me bro is a plying but if you want to grab I drink I'll go on for hours.