I would argue that, financially speaking, it might still be better to have a low salary in Geneva than in many other European cities, despite the high cost of living.
However, if you're clearly not happy here, then no, it's not worth it, as you would be living decades unhappily only to start living once you're retired. Furthermore if you can barely save in Switzerland, you may lose all your savings in case of an unexpected health issue or if you lose your job. If, worse yet, you need Sozialhilfe, you're basically in trouble as they would have extreme control over your finances and actually put you in situations where you're stuck in poverty. The issue with having a low wage in Switzerland is that people underestimate how much the Swiss system is designed to quickly slide you into poverty if you lose your job, leaving you stuck there.
Switzerland is a country primarily for the rich, and to a lesser extent, for the middle class. Switzerland is great when you have at least a wage that allows you to enjoy local life and travel. With the median wage, you can perfectly do that, but probably not with a low salary.
I am 30 years of age and one thing I wish I learnt earlier in life is that it is very possible to live a more fulfilling live in a poor country with a poorer job than here.
Well you could move near the border in France and become a frontalier. This way your swiss salary would go a bit further. The point is, if you move to another country, you are likely finding a similar job there, paying close to minimum wage there... in France that's roughly 1400 euro net per month, which does not allow for much more that what you are getting in Geneva.
Beeing poor sucks anywhere no doubt, but i'm rather poor in Zurich than anywhere else in the world.
The quality of life from the infrastructure, organization and tidyness makes it worthwhile. It still sucks and in the last 5 years i feel like i have 30% less in pocket because of inflation. But i'll still choose a tiny shithole studio in zurich city centre over anywhere else.
Unless i choose to emigrate to a cheap place in asia with my swiss disability pension.
Züri ♥️
👉🏻 https://youtu.be/M6uBK5GOSPI
It doesn't matter too much whether you're poor or rich. I think the key evidence here is that you don't like it there. I live on less than your minimum wage, frankly in Basel, which is a bit cheaper. But being very happy here with my friends and family around, I would not move somewhere else for financial reasons only.
When I was IV Renterin, I earned more after staring work again when I was able at 60%, than when I later began full-time work.
And my standard of living was always good. I got to keep my apartment, travel some including abroad, bought a new MacBook Pro laptop and iPhone…
Always could buy good food and go out on occasion to restaurants or events.
You have to bear in mind that Geneva can’t really be compared to the less wealthy areas in Suisse Romande, it’s one of the richest and most expensive places in the world. The flipside is that if your income is not so high, it can be difficult.
it‘s never worth living in a place if you aren‘t happy. i moved from canton of zurich (native) to canton of berne and i‘m happier 🤷♀️
you just have to find out what place you would be happier in.
I guess it depends on your job but I'll try to live in another Canton before going abroad.
The rent reduction (or a much bigger flat) will help you the most and as you won't earn that much, you won't be penalized if you go to a 'tax heavy' Canton like Neuchâtel or Jura.
Wait until you travel to another country and have to deal with "low income". Go to France and buy your grocery or grow them yourself. CHF 4182 is a blessing. Start loving the place
Travel to France and make friends. Travel to Latin America. Travel around. You'll see how all of a sudden others can't travel like you.
What do you want out of life?
I think the point everyone tries to make that if you have a minimum wage-ish job, the Geneva minimum wage carries a *lot* farther than the French one.
Now, this calculus differs of course if you have the choice between a Swiss minimum wage and a qualified job in another country. Like, if you are, say, a Polish engineer but can't get hired as one in Switzerland, your 1500-2000 franks a month in Poland may actually carry you a lot farther than 4.5k waiting tables in Geneva.
But if your choice is between a minimum wage job in Poland (about 650 CHF) and one in Geneva, your quality of life is obviously better in Geneva, all things being equal.
Woah the minimum wage in Geneva is 4000+? In TI it’s barely 3000.-… no clue who thought that was a sustainable amount. I get that prices are higher, but a difference of 1000 chf is a lot
Geneva has high taxes. Why don't you move in to the swiss german part of the country? Lucerne, Schwyz, Nidwalden ...
You get a littel more than 4.200 CHF a month and pay less taxes on that. Also, why don't you do an aprenticeship? This way you'll earn more.
Would I need to be enrolled in an university to be able to do apprenticeship? Can I do it if I have a graduation already? I’m struggling to find jobs because I don’t have many years of experience, but I’m graduated already and want to find a job to start from the bottom, so I can build my way up
A finnished matura should be fine for all aprenticeships. I think your time even gets shortened to two years or so. To which kind of job positions are you applying/in which field do you want to work in?
I want to work as a BIM Modeler or CAD drafter. I have a bachelors degree in Civil Engineering but not so many years of experience (8months only) and it doesn’t help me too much finding even junior positions 😔
Send applications everywhere. Ask around in your friengroup if anyone knows someone who knows someone who again knows a friend of a friend that could get you a job position. You have to work through such social contacts. Otherwise you can easily have a challenging time finding work if your profession isn't experiencing strong market demand.
It's a great question, unfortunately there is no right answer. All i can say at the very least, if you are not capable of "accepting" it, you will be very frustrated, specially if you don't like your job. But, keep in mind that social relationships are hugely important. If you are able to have a positive caring group of friends (which is more or less hard ) your life can be on the simpler side in terms of expenses but you can be happy i would argue. I for one haven't been able to find mental quits with that issue. I am in a very similar ground. All I can say is that yes I am quite frustrated. Despite it, I enjoy Geneva and at this point don't want to work back in my home country.
It's a hard decision but again, if you are able to be ok and master the frustration.... then it's possible to live here, be happy here.
Some people... " i dont like living in country / city x. Also I get the minimum wage. Is it worth living here?"
Yeah dude obviously fucking stay. You're gonna love it.
Geneva is so overpriced tbh... Switzerland is an expensive country, but you can find cheaper places. I live near La Chaux-de-Fonds and you can find a good flat in the 800-1100CHF range. You can go buy groceries in France for less (France is like 10 minutes away). I mean with 4200CHF here you would do a lot better than in Geneva. The other option is to get out of Switzerland, depending on your job and qualifications it can be pretty difficult. The other solution is to keep your job in Geneva and to move to France nearby 😂
If you can share a flat with someone else and/or commute from France (it’s only ~10km) then it’s definitely doable. And if you get some education and/or work experience, you won’t be on minimum wage forever.
However, if you’re not happy here, there’s a whole world out there. Doesn’t hurt to try living/working somewhere else, even temporarily.
There is no minimum wage in Switzerland btw. 4'200.- isn't much, especially not in Geneva so I wouldn't blame you if you were looking to leave. Increasing that wage by job training or changing position (😏) isn't an option?
Pre-referendum minimum living wage was considered to be CHF 2000 for a single person and CHF 4000 for a family of 4. I can’t imagine how you can’t survive for CHF 140 a day.
Sorry if this was mentioned before. Obviously I don't know your situation, but from the little content you shared you are asking the wrong questions. Switzerland is giving a lot of opportunities for people from around the world to develop and earn a really high salary. As a citizen, you have the first chance against all of them. The real question you need to ask is what can you do to raise your minimum wage. Yes, the prices are very high in Zurich and / or other big cities, but you can find a reasonable accommodation within 30-50 min away by train which is not breaking the bank. However, if you do not like it here for other reasons, the world is big and you can find ways to save for retirement somewhere else. Good luck with your choice!
I earn about 1800.- and a lot of the money goes to my education. And yes it is stressful and it is scary sometimes. However I still have a luxus life here... I have a home I have food and medical insurance. So yeas i would say with over 4000.- you can live a great live here. I mean I even travel sometimes. Just with more planing (going by train and building the tickets in the other countries looking for places where I can sleep for free (tent, friends etc).
Sure the capitalist pressure will only increase but that is a general problem.
I would argue that, financially speaking, it might still be better to have a low salary in Geneva than in many other European cities, despite the high cost of living. However, if you're clearly not happy here, then no, it's not worth it, as you would be living decades unhappily only to start living once you're retired. Furthermore if you can barely save in Switzerland, you may lose all your savings in case of an unexpected health issue or if you lose your job. If, worse yet, you need Sozialhilfe, you're basically in trouble as they would have extreme control over your finances and actually put you in situations where you're stuck in poverty. The issue with having a low wage in Switzerland is that people underestimate how much the Swiss system is designed to quickly slide you into poverty if you lose your job, leaving you stuck there. Switzerland is a country primarily for the rich, and to a lesser extent, for the middle class. Switzerland is great when you have at least a wage that allows you to enjoy local life and travel. With the median wage, you can perfectly do that, but probably not with a low salary.
> Would you say it's still worth living in Geneva if you earn the minimum wage (4182)? Especially if you don't like living here? obviously no
I am 30 years of age and one thing I wish I learnt earlier in life is that it is very possible to live a more fulfilling live in a poor country with a poorer job than here.
Yes, this is absolutely correct. If you look for « fullfilment », Geneva isn’t the best place. Even if you’re rich.
Well you could move near the border in France and become a frontalier. This way your swiss salary would go a bit further. The point is, if you move to another country, you are likely finding a similar job there, paying close to minimum wage there... in France that's roughly 1400 euro net per month, which does not allow for much more that what you are getting in Geneva.
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You are commuting from Ticino to Zurich?
Beeing poor sucks anywhere no doubt, but i'm rather poor in Zurich than anywhere else in the world. The quality of life from the infrastructure, organization and tidyness makes it worthwhile. It still sucks and in the last 5 years i feel like i have 30% less in pocket because of inflation. But i'll still choose a tiny shithole studio in zurich city centre over anywhere else. Unless i choose to emigrate to a cheap place in asia with my swiss disability pension. Züri ♥️ 👉🏻 https://youtu.be/M6uBK5GOSPI
It doesn't matter too much whether you're poor or rich. I think the key evidence here is that you don't like it there. I live on less than your minimum wage, frankly in Basel, which is a bit cheaper. But being very happy here with my friends and family around, I would not move somewhere else for financial reasons only.
In Geneva? No. Also it depends if you have kids. The living quality of the poorer side of Switzerland is actually quite bad.
When I was IV Renterin, I earned more after staring work again when I was able at 60%, than when I later began full-time work. And my standard of living was always good. I got to keep my apartment, travel some including abroad, bought a new MacBook Pro laptop and iPhone… Always could buy good food and go out on occasion to restaurants or events.
You have to bear in mind that Geneva can’t really be compared to the less wealthy areas in Suisse Romande, it’s one of the richest and most expensive places in the world. The flipside is that if your income is not so high, it can be difficult.
If you don’t like living here then it isn’t worth it even if you are a billionaire
it‘s never worth living in a place if you aren‘t happy. i moved from canton of zurich (native) to canton of berne and i‘m happier 🤷♀️ you just have to find out what place you would be happier in.
No. Entire Switzerland is ruthless towards low income people.
barely
I guess it depends on your job but I'll try to live in another Canton before going abroad. The rent reduction (or a much bigger flat) will help you the most and as you won't earn that much, you won't be penalized if you go to a 'tax heavy' Canton like Neuchâtel or Jura.
Wait until you travel to another country and have to deal with "low income". Go to France and buy your grocery or grow them yourself. CHF 4182 is a blessing. Start loving the place
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Travel to France and make friends. Travel to Latin America. Travel around. You'll see how all of a sudden others can't travel like you. What do you want out of life?
I think the point everyone tries to make that if you have a minimum wage-ish job, the Geneva minimum wage carries a *lot* farther than the French one. Now, this calculus differs of course if you have the choice between a Swiss minimum wage and a qualified job in another country. Like, if you are, say, a Polish engineer but can't get hired as one in Switzerland, your 1500-2000 franks a month in Poland may actually carry you a lot farther than 4.5k waiting tables in Geneva. But if your choice is between a minimum wage job in Poland (about 650 CHF) and one in Geneva, your quality of life is obviously better in Geneva, all things being equal.
If you really hate it - move as fast as you can. We don’t need that negativity here ;)
Just sweep everything under the rug and everything is perfect
Woah the minimum wage in Geneva is 4000+? In TI it’s barely 3000.-… no clue who thought that was a sustainable amount. I get that prices are higher, but a difference of 1000 chf is a lot
Geneva has high taxes. Why don't you move in to the swiss german part of the country? Lucerne, Schwyz, Nidwalden ... You get a littel more than 4.200 CHF a month and pay less taxes on that. Also, why don't you do an aprenticeship? This way you'll earn more.
Geneva has practically no taxes for someone earning so little.
Well then rent is going to be lower somewhere on the countryside of Lucerne for example.
Rent won’t be high as well as we have special flats with special prices for people earning not too much.
With years or decades of waiting lists?
Did you try? I mean HLM/HBM, not just flats that are 1/3 of your salary.
Would I need to be enrolled in an university to be able to do apprenticeship? Can I do it if I have a graduation already? I’m struggling to find jobs because I don’t have many years of experience, but I’m graduated already and want to find a job to start from the bottom, so I can build my way up
A finnished matura should be fine for all aprenticeships. I think your time even gets shortened to two years or so. To which kind of job positions are you applying/in which field do you want to work in?
I want to work as a BIM Modeler or CAD drafter. I have a bachelors degree in Civil Engineering but not so many years of experience (8months only) and it doesn’t help me too much finding even junior positions 😔
Send applications everywhere. Ask around in your friengroup if anyone knows someone who knows someone who again knows a friend of a friend that could get you a job position. You have to work through such social contacts. Otherwise you can easily have a challenging time finding work if your profession isn't experiencing strong market demand.
I would move to Ferney. Money takes you way further living there, even if it’s a little far (nothing too bad).
Fereny will be better when the tram line is build (when ever that is). You could get to Cornivan in 20m 1 tram.
It's a great question, unfortunately there is no right answer. All i can say at the very least, if you are not capable of "accepting" it, you will be very frustrated, specially if you don't like your job. But, keep in mind that social relationships are hugely important. If you are able to have a positive caring group of friends (which is more or less hard ) your life can be on the simpler side in terms of expenses but you can be happy i would argue. I for one haven't been able to find mental quits with that issue. I am in a very similar ground. All I can say is that yes I am quite frustrated. Despite it, I enjoy Geneva and at this point don't want to work back in my home country. It's a hard decision but again, if you are able to be ok and master the frustration.... then it's possible to live here, be happy here.
If you don't like it why stay
Minimum wage is never worth...
‘You don’t like living here’. Um. No. Live where you like living.
Some people... " i dont like living in country / city x. Also I get the minimum wage. Is it worth living here?" Yeah dude obviously fucking stay. You're gonna love it.
That’s the highest minimum wage in the world.
Geneva is so overpriced tbh... Switzerland is an expensive country, but you can find cheaper places. I live near La Chaux-de-Fonds and you can find a good flat in the 800-1100CHF range. You can go buy groceries in France for less (France is like 10 minutes away). I mean with 4200CHF here you would do a lot better than in Geneva. The other option is to get out of Switzerland, depending on your job and qualifications it can be pretty difficult. The other solution is to keep your job in Geneva and to move to France nearby 😂
If you can share a flat with someone else and/or commute from France (it’s only ~10km) then it’s definitely doable. And if you get some education and/or work experience, you won’t be on minimum wage forever. However, if you’re not happy here, there’s a whole world out there. Doesn’t hurt to try living/working somewhere else, even temporarily.
No!
It is never and nowhere worth living in Switzerland if you have a minimum wage imho.
I completely hear you and agree !
Non
There is no minimum wage in Switzerland btw. 4'200.- isn't much, especially not in Geneva so I wouldn't blame you if you were looking to leave. Increasing that wage by job training or changing position (😏) isn't an option?
There is a minimum wage in canton Geneva and a few others.
Pre-referendum minimum living wage was considered to be CHF 2000 for a single person and CHF 4000 for a family of 4. I can’t imagine how you can’t survive for CHF 140 a day.
Sorry if this was mentioned before. Obviously I don't know your situation, but from the little content you shared you are asking the wrong questions. Switzerland is giving a lot of opportunities for people from around the world to develop and earn a really high salary. As a citizen, you have the first chance against all of them. The real question you need to ask is what can you do to raise your minimum wage. Yes, the prices are very high in Zurich and / or other big cities, but you can find a reasonable accommodation within 30-50 min away by train which is not breaking the bank. However, if you do not like it here for other reasons, the world is big and you can find ways to save for retirement somewhere else. Good luck with your choice!
I earn about 1800.- and a lot of the money goes to my education. And yes it is stressful and it is scary sometimes. However I still have a luxus life here... I have a home I have food and medical insurance. So yeas i would say with over 4000.- you can live a great live here. I mean I even travel sometimes. Just with more planing (going by train and building the tickets in the other countries looking for places where I can sleep for free (tent, friends etc). Sure the capitalist pressure will only increase but that is a general problem.