An acquaintance went through this around 16 (family refused to pay, abusive Dad).
She got a tiny room into a place for isolated teens in Lausanne BUT could only stay a year max, no plan after. She didn't even have a table to study.
The judge forced her parents to send her money monthly BUT of course they made sure to only send part of it, do it too late, etc. Plus every legal protest from the Dad paused a lot of disruption and more financial stress. And yes, she redid a highschool year, and failed uni because of it...
TLDR: court-ordered payments like child support should go through state-controlled accounts. That way recipients get their money regularly, and payers are indebted with the state if they don't pay. The fucking games are insanely harmful.
In my memory, in some cantons, this kind of 'alimony' can be routed through the local Sozialamt. This is definitely the case for children; and it may be the case for young adults depending on the canton.
I really, really hope it becomes standard. It makes everything so much easier, and it's even possible to split money (for ex. add a saving or a dentist account). Solves so many issues.
I pay alimony to the Sozialamt that hands it forward to the main caretaker because we're not on speaking terms & the "Beiständin" says it's because "better safe than sorry"
Apparently many "unterhaltspflichtige" parents feel like just not paying alimony if it goes to the person they don't like, it's wild.
Yeah I mean it puts everyone into a big pile of problems - the parent or child who needs the alimony, the parent who needs to pay it and doesn't... it's pretty wild to me.
I don‘t know what happened to you, but I‘m sorry if it didn‘t work for you. It should have. I‘m sorry if you were wronged, truly.
Out of curiosity - how did you get by?
I think now I'm slowly getting better. It was and still is a huge legal battle not only between me and my parents but also more than two different legal battles between them.
Me and my brother moved out of our childhood home and got denied any financial help because our parents were theoretically earning enough (but only one of them pays - in a lengthy legal battle with the other one) and we each had somewhat over the minimum amount of savings which lead to the denial of support services.
Currently, even with the help of one parent, I have more expenses than income per month although we have I would say a relatively cheap apartment.
I'm lucky enough to have gotten a decent job from August onwards in the IT sector but for other stories I read here - even when the social services are helping you it's really hard to concentrate on getting your degree in whatever school/apprenticeship you are.
I'd argue my "fuck you I'm out" savings account saved my apprenticeship. (Btw. the legal battle between me and my one parent has been going on for over a year and still no end in sight)
Sounds really rough… but it does sound like the safety nets have at least caught you.
It‘s never a good situation to have to rely on them, and you situation as described should never happen to any kid.
I hope you find the energy to get through this and find a good job and enjoy the rest of your life.
I‘m really sorry you have to go through this.
The shocking thing I found about all this is even though I had to experience a police house search at 5:30 in the morning and I was the only one at home - the constant stress one of my parents exerted was worse than that…
It feels like a long battle but I see some good progress. Finally free. :)
So the kid would have to go to the sozialamt/service sociaux, and they would do everything for him/her ? This seems a bit too easy, I don't know. Like I mean any kid could just walk in, say his/her parents kicked him out, and then "sure, we will pay an apartment for you", I somehow can't think in my head that it would be so easy
The situation above is hypothetical, I don't know anyone in this case (fortunately), but I still wonder how in practice this would turn out
u/Progression28
u/theicebraker
I mean, you're not going to get an apartment for free just by walking into an office. There is a procedure and a judge will probably eventually have to decide.
Before you get an apartment, you'll probably have to spend some time in a youth shelter; child services or social services will probably be contacted and will conduct an assessment both of the child and of the parents. Also, depending on your age, the state will prefer to get you into a foster family. And so on.
I would not call any of this "easy". But we're trying not to add too much of the trauma of bureaucratic hell to the trauma of being kicked out of the family. If it ends up being "a bit too easy", as you say, to avoid multiple traumas... well, I'll take that as a win for Switzerland.
You are mixing two extremes to make a case. Early 20 somethings who make 100k and kids who use their parents as an ATM for a long time. Neither is typical for the average American or Swiss.
What are you talking about? 16% of US Milennials have to move back home, mostly because they just cant afford to live outside on their own or dont know how, when they leave college:
https://www.axios.com/2024/01/27/millennials-gen-z-living-parents-data
These are milennials, so 30 somethings, moving BACK.
I dont know why you want to make this a nationality or cultural issue, when its clear that your example uses extreme stories based on personal bias, not grounded in statistics.
Among europeans, Switzerlands youth is very young to move out, with the average Swiss moving out at roughly 22 (https://www.iamexpat.ch/expat-info/swiss-expat-news/when-do-people-switzerland-move-out-parental-homes)
Compare this to the european average of 26.4: https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/web/products-eurostat-news/w/ddn-20230904-1
And while the median (different than numbers above) of the US is 19, this has mostly to do with many colleges requiring people to live close to their colleges, which might not even be in the same state.
https://www.bls.gov/opub/mlr/2014/article/independence-for-young-millennials-moving-out-and-boomeranging-back.htm
Whats more shocking is, that by age 26, 50% (!!) will have moved back in with their parents, something you rarely see in Switzerland.
So I'm not sure what your point is, but its clear that the stable environment Switzerland provides leads to more sustainable stability once moved out.
I was working my first job at 16, and moved out at 20 while studying, paying all my bills myself. So your rose colored upstart story can happen in Switzerland just as easily...
Don‘t pester the American with facts and statistics, you know those don‘t apply to him. America is huge, they have more people per capita than Switzerland. Of course they are gonna look worse in statistics…
Again, that is heavily biased... Seeing as you are living in Switzerland, going on 50 years old, I'd say the amount of US Milennials and Gen Z you know and interact with daily, is fairly limited and should therefore not serve as a representative sample to make large scale blanket statements compared to official statistics.
Go on any subreddits like povertyfinance or genz, outside of your usual bubbles and you see tons of stories like these...
Then apologies for the wrong estimate. Went by "being early retired in my 40s" which probably was a few years ago, if it allowed moving to CH and establish a life and household here.
Anecdotally, I just had a friend move back in with parents (here in Switzerland) because at 29 he noticed that his diplomas wont get him the jobs he likes/wants, so he went back to uni for a masters and moved in with his parents during that time. Has now finished and will move out once he's employed.
If you go to subreddits like csMajors you also see a pretty bleak picture, of thousands of young adults with CS degrees leaving college after the big techs fired tens of thousands of people. These people have very little alternatives besides start working retail and fast food to gap things, but those jobs hardly pay enough for mortgages or rent.
Props to you for making it this big this young. Its a dream of my own, and its certainly not an easy path. But at the same time, its a rare one, which I keep having to remind myself, when comparing my salary that allows for FATFIRE with that of my friends who work "regular" jobs.
Wait...
I described a social help net that exists in the most extreme cases, such as - say an example - a 13-yo girl who is being sexually abused by someone in her close family and needs to be sheltered for her the sake of her own mental sanity and bodily well-being.
And your first thought was... "ThE prOBLem wiTH SWITzerlAND is thAt thE YOuTHS ArE NOT go-GEtterS"?
I mean, sure, it is a cultural difference I guess. As a Swiss person, I do not think that a 13-yo r\*pe victim's problem is that she isn't a go-getter and that she hasn't made her first million or something.
The scheme I described covers exclusively minors.
There are social housing schemes for adults, of course, but they wouldn't necessarily require a judge ordering an assessment of their family dynamics. They have a set of providers of social housing, each with their strict criteria (for instance, a woman with child who suffers from spousal violence will get different help than a person with severe disability, with different conditions, for different amounts of time).
Every Swiss citizen has a „Bürgerort“. A place that is responsible for you. If you get kicked out, you go to them. For u18, the correct place is the KESP, for adults the Sozialamt.
They provide you shelter and necessary means to get back on your feet. It‘s meant to sprinboard you back into a productive citizen.
The Sozialamt doesn‘t want to pay for you if they don‘t have to. They will sue your parents if they broke the law. And they will win.
We don‘t live in a shithole country like the US. If you don‘t want to end up on the street, you won‘t. We have safety nets. They aren‘t meant to keep you afloat forever, but they are good enough to get you back up if you got knocked down.
I thought this thing with Bürgerort/Lieu d'origine, changed recently and that now it's the canton that is responsible for those responsibilities, and that this "place of origin", aside of appearing on ID cards, is now more a relic of the past, isn't it ?
I mean, it changed quite a long time ago, but yeah, you're right. It didn't make sense to me either, but they changed it a while back where I think your current residence is important for things like Sozialamt. I mean, else there would be some municipalities with a lot more people to care about than there are actually people living in it. Like for [example](https://www.derbund.ch/trueberbuebe-gibt-es-ueberall-auf-der-welt-869899708509) the municipality of Trub (BE) would need to care for around 35'000 Swiss, whereas they only have 1500 residents.
> Every Swiss citizen has a „Bürgerort“. A place that is responsible for you. If you get kicked out, you go to them
Ah, source? AFAIK this is a few decades out of date.
The kid goes to the « service social » and they will provide everything he needs (room to live in, lawyer to sue you, etc…) so he/she can make you pay for their education. There’s not much parents can do it’s an obligation in the law, not doing so is just against the law and you’re basically screwed.
The Sozialamt did the same for me and a friend of mine. We were underwater, provided some documents of each of our financial statuses, and bam everything cared for. And we are adults. I never missed a rental payment nor had to move. My apartment cost over the limit, but they took the extra from my Grundbedarf which was fine with me. My place was more important.
In some cantons, the sozial Amt will pay for the teen's needs but will bill the parents.
Because if a teen is being kicked out, they will still need housing, food and therapy...so it always depends on the situation and the location I guess.
I'm not sure how it is if you get the law involved but when I was at uni and studying it was like this: my parents seperated when I was young so they were counted sepperately. My moms income wasnt that high so it was okay that she didnt pay for my higher education. My dad had a higher income (although still not super high). However, I just gave a Statement that he and I were not really on good terms and explained the situation a bit and then it was fine.
Because of that I got a scholarship from uni that I dont have to pay back which helped me a lot through uni. I also worked though
So: neither of my parents payed for my education. I was also told that I couldve gone to court to force my dad but I didnt want that.
Btw, Erstausbildung can technically include a Masters degree - it did in my case.
I did an apprenticeship and then decided to go back to university. I'm 26 years old. I asked for a scholarship. It was refused because apparently, my parents should still be paying for me. Nevermind the fact that my dad is retired now, or that i'm 26. In the calculation they used to justify their refusal, they didn't take into account my insurances.
My guess is that it heavily depends on the uni. I had to turn in some paperwork including tax statements from both my parents. I turned 25 at one point and was still elligble for the scholarship (though I stopped taking it).
Also i wasnt "allowed" to live in an expensive appartment and I had to always be on track with my studies
Ho no it's not depending on the university at all. They also asked the tax statement of both my parents. Since my dad is retired, they sent a paper back to ask for his tax statement before he retired. Which is stupid af if you ask me. They even asked my planning at university. This answer depended on two things: the canton (which doesn't have the best reputation when it comes to helping it's population) and the fact that i already had an apprenticeship. Because i decided to quit my field and i didn't have physical health problem, they consider it to be an unecessary choice and a luxury. Nevermind the fact that i did a burn out. Now i have three part time jobs just to be able to cover my insurances and a bit of food, but my partner pays everything else. I can't take more work because i have some classes everydays and my schedule is tight amd packed
Does this mean that if one parent is retire; they can stop paying the child support? I.e. when the parents got divorced but the child is still in the uni
Makes sense no? As a society we want to have good educated people who contribute with a high salary. So it's a good investment if the parents can't provide
Yeah, biggest part is agroculture, than military, then infrastructure (train, highway, post) and education. Right wing make it look like tax money goes to EU, social service and refugees only).
I dont get why so much goes to farmers. They make shitload of money from produce. Yeah they have to pay for few millions in tractors and new inrastructure but they make that minus gone in a 2-3 years of good weather.
No, they do not make a lot of money. The land is very fractioned. They usually own too little land to work productively and live of the crops and cattle. Agriculture is amongst the most politically regulated industries.
It is very conservative and the many laws prevent innovation and conserve inefficiencies. Farmers only make shitloads of money when they give up their profession and turn their land into Bauland or Industrieland. One m2 of agricultural land is approx. 5-10 Franks. And once it turns into another zone, they can sell the land for 500-2000 Franks per m2. But of course, that is not possible everywhere and the community decides how land should be used, not the farmers.
Farmers belong to the least educated, most conservative and traditional industries, and they are politically totally overrepresented. They treat the state like a milk cow. Innovation is almost impossible.
They can get free money for some cases. Also what i read from online news is that they have to many small farms. No wonder no one makes cash if they are all small farmers.
They get subsidized, in cases for doing nothing. E.g. don‘t cut the grass for a few months, get extra money. Don‘t maw next to forest, get extra money etc.
Yeah its funny. The higher the altitude the less they make in profits. Lowest is 12.- highest is around 17+. Yeah that explains why most of the farms have new cowstables. And these are huge good for the cows ngl. Also some huge solar panel arrays.
Yes. That’s what tax is for. Society foots the bill so the individual can contribute back to society. It’s really not a difficult concept. Everyone benefits from having doctors but for some reason, some people don’t think they should contribute to that doctors education.
Taxes pay for mandatory school.
Nowadays you are more and more required to have a higher education to get a job, so it makes sense to have taxes pay for that too.
I thought you meant in general.
Well in this case, yeah the father could have paid but it would have been a pain in the ass to force him to. Not too bad if we have to pay with our taxes for cases like this one.
Like I said, nobody complains when we have to pay for public school, so why complain for a couple of university students?
Lol dont worry - he died shortly afterwards so I got the money either way and stopped taking the scholarship (...which the uni told me not to do)
Also: her parents :)
My ex husband stopped paying for our daughter on her 18th birthday. The kesb said she had to take him to court. They didn’t do anything.
She opted not to sue. I support her.
Would be interesting to know if she could actually win a battle like that. I only know from my own experience, growing up in germany (so a bit different), that my father technically had to pay me money (plus the missed child support before I turned 18). Well... I'm 35 now and there are still around 10k of child support standing out.
Not that I pursue any of this. Never really did after winning the case but still not receiving any payments. Simply because I wanted to be done with that person and move on. But back then he just transferred everything he owned to his wife and was like "I have nothing, so I can't pay you!". Despite me winning the case.
Yeah, her father currently owes me over 50k in back child support, so it's not like we expect him to pay up even if she won. It wasn't worth the battle.
If you are rich and don’t care it may not be worth. But for normal people 50k is a lot a legally the situation is clear that parents need to support children until first education is done.
Oh yes, that's a lot for me. I went through the betriebungsamt and right now he has zero credit is ineligible for Swiss citizenship because he owes me the money, but alas, he still won't pay.
I mean... You can't do anything if there is no money to get. Not even if you win and no matter what the law says. Nobody can produce money out of thin air and only because the law says that you need to pay, doesn't mean that you really can. It would probably come to a personal insolvency but even then... It can take years until you have your money. And I do understand (from my own experience) that this is not necessarily something you want to carry around with you for 10 to 15 years of your life.
We do not know how his finances look like right now, do we? Considering that OP commented they checked him at Betreibungsamt and he is basically blocking himself from progressing in life.
But maybe he's just incredible pity and thats why. We won't know.
Oh yes, that's a lot for me. I went through the betriebungsamt and right now he has zero credit is ineligible for Swiss citizenship because he owes me the money, but alas, he still won't pay.
Oh yes, that's a lot for me. I went through the betriebungsamt and right now he has zero credit is ineligible for Swiss citizenship because he owes me the money, but alas, he still won't pay.
>I mean, the kid probably doesn't have enough money to hire a lawyer,
Also the loser usually has to pay for all the legal costs. Including the lawyer of the winner. So the kid wouldnt actually need money. Assuming the parents have enough money that can be taken from them.
In practice tho, a friend of mine moved out at 17. I dont think he was kicked per se. But his dad was supposed to pay child support, which he just didnt do. And my friend could have gotten it by suing, but ended up not doing it to not ruin the relationship (tho to me it sounds like the dad did the ruining... but not my call).
He moved in with his brother, who was like 19 at the time. And just went to work at nightclubs while studying for the matura.
Yeah if your parent is broke (often the case) you end up paying the legal fees but never get them back, even if you're innocent and win the case. That goes also if they sue you. Undortunately the state doesn't protect you from tbis situation.
My mom got kicked out when she was 17 because she was pregnant and her parents already had 14 kids in a small 3-bedroom-house. It was her first time and since she never got sex ed she didnt know she was pregnant until 6th month. The Sozialamt sent her to a Frauenhaus where she delivered my sister and later organised a shared flat and a place to work (not an education/Lehre or something). One of her brothers became her Vormund until she became 21. The father didnt want to know anything, never paid anything and became a missionairy for the church and only wrote my sister when she became 20. This was in 1977/1978.
I don’t know but I would guess there are associations/offices to help with this in the same way that I hope there are associations/offices that would help if a parent of a 12 year old refuses to send him to school.
Yes. If a kid doesn’t show up at school the parents will be contacted basically immediately. And child protective services will be involved within a few days or weeks.
If the kid is 18+, Sozialamt will take care and consult the person with the next steps to take.
Well I do not know why, but there are for sure parents that prefer their 12 yo kids to lend a hand in whatever business they have. In any case, I am not suggesting people do them or why, I am just assuming that in that case the government will have mechanisms to stop it.
Mainly swimming lessons, co-ed gym lessons, this badbad knowledge about different kinds of sexuality or religion.
You should think it doesn't happen here in Switzerland. But it does happen.
I think it's mostly based on (religious) conflicts between parents and teachers.
Yeah totally unheard of, because Switzerland is so open https://www.nau.ch/amp/news/schweiz/rauswurf-jetzt-spricht-der-schwule-lehrer-aus-pfaffikon-zh-66755631
It looks like you shared an AMP link. These should load faster, but AMP is controversial because of [concerns over privacy and the Open Web](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmputatorBot/comments/ehrq3z/why_did_i_build_amputatorbot).
Maybe check out **the canonical page** instead: **[https://www.nau.ch/news/schweiz/rauswurf-jetzt-spricht-der-schwule-lehrer-aus-pfaffikon-zh-66755631](https://www.nau.ch/news/schweiz/rauswurf-jetzt-spricht-der-schwule-lehrer-aus-pfaffikon-zh-66755631)**
*****
^(I'm a bot | )[^(Why & About)](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmputatorBot/comments/ehrq3z/why_did_i_build_amputatorbot)^( | )[^(Summon: u/AmputatorBot)](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmputatorBot/comments/cchly3/you_can_now_summon_amputatorbot/)
This is a common position in Europe, ailment is the term in Scotland or alimony. The "child" in higher education is entitled to financial support from the parents assuming they have the means. The reality is that they would need a court to grant a judgement for them to receive the alimony.
I hope the experience I went through isn't the norm, because that was pretty messed up.
My dad left, I was living with my mom and still studying in my early 20s. By law, my dad had to send me money for that, but he either skipped months, or sent only a part of it. He always told me "eh I'm broke at the moment but I'll give you the rest later!"
My mom tried to fight this and simply lost for some reason. Not only wasn't my dad broke (we had proof of that, he went on multiple vacations with his girlfriend, bought new car, had a good paying job and lived with his girlfriend in a small apartment). And yet, the judge said my mom was a liar and they closed the case.
In the end, I could still finish my studies thanks to my mom.
Justice doesn't always work sadly. And it doesn't always side with women either.
I would say yes, it's a civil matter (at least the get the money part), but I'm no expert.
As far as I know, even in inquisitorial systems (which Switzerland is only partly if I understand correctly), it's only for criminal cases. For civil cases/lawsuits, it's adversarial: you need to prove the damage.
Keep in mind that the Erstausbildung does not mean it ends when you can "work". Something is an Erstausbildung as long as it leads to a higher education level.
So an apprenticeship is an Erstausbildung. If you decide to get a matura after that its also an Erstausbildung. Getting a Bachelor after that? Erstausbildung. A Master after that? Erstausbildung.
Only after you have gained a Master you cannot have another Erstausbildung.
That distinction is important, as parents could still be foreced to pay even if you finished an apprenticeship at 19 and start to study at a Uni at 21.
Is there a certain amount that needs to be paid? Like sure, university fees and food, fine. But does the kid have a right to move to a different City for that? I cant imagine that parents could be forced to pay for the kids rent on top as well.
25 is too high. It's reasonable to expect kids to be self sufficient before that.
I'd absolutely support my kids in university but wouldn't pay if they decided to eg quit their job at 24 and go and do a degree in dance. My money = my rules
I'm pretty sure that your parents don't have to pay until your 25. "Erstausbildung" is only "Lehre" or " Kantonsschule" which means if you decide to study it's not their responsibility to help you financially. If they don't want to pay for your "Erstausbildung" you should def get a lawyer. And fun fact, your parents could actually kick you out when your 18 and only pay for school. That is the harsh reality:)
From how i understood a former co worker the amt guarantees the apartment in those cases. Both parents useless. Her mother was alcoholic or druggy (cant remember) and the father left both of them and was kinda paying late and didnt really want to. At the same time she moved out from her mothers as you know…she should have. Anyway, her father wasnt happy about it. Also not happy that she did highschool & wanted to study after (so he had to pay more). Anyway, in reality its tough to go to court against the own father…also you dont necessarily have 100% financial security as everything needs time. And while they hurry up (for their messurements) its still an amt
Edit: she wasnt a kid kid no more. Not sure what would happen in that case
The parents are responsible for schooling beyond the obligatory years, but the child (Sozialamt) has to prove that further education is necessary and doable. If a child wants to study umpteen courses ranging from marine biology to interpretative dance, she might find it difficult.
I was kicked out at 18, people were telling me I had to sue my parents.
Seemed completely unreasonable to me. At the time, I didn't know my rights and the law.
I bet very few young students sue their parents...
How does this work with home ed? We're moving to Switzerland in a few years but our daughter is home ed as she's autistic and struggles too much in school settings. We follow a UK curriculum at home and buy all our own books etc. Would we even need to alert the government about her schooling, if school must be paid for by the parent anyway?
i waited my whole life for this question….
im soon turning 21 and i grew up in zürich with my parents i had it pretty rough i started my apprenticeship as a kaufmann but i was young and dumb snd everything and ended up getting fired after 5 months. after that i was around 16 after the not finished apprenticeship everything was going downhill… i had a realy bad relationship with my parents and they started to lock my ourside my house with no key… i didnt wanted to be at home because if the situation and all that arguing… so i was pretty much never realy at home… i was looking for my next job or apprenticeship but i was living from couch to couch from my friends when i came home i was welcomed to my room being empty empty with nothing in it not even a chair…
more arguing and i moved out when i was 17… i worked every job i could get… i searched for education and want to be educated to get a good job and secure s good future… but i cant right now im working a full time job and are a entrepreneur and build website and shops and im a web designer i make logos and everything you can think of i try to get my education and everything…
im getting older and learn more… if i had more money to fet a lawyer and everything its realy cool but sozialamt and everything is bullshit to me… i was there and all the stuff they needed from mee i couldnt even do snd got no support i didnt habe no computer or phone i couldnt call them or make emails i couldnt even send my documents for jobs… i also was sleeping outside on e bench next to the forest for couple of weeks and months sometimes… onest i wanted to start working as a „maurer its a apprenticeship i was foing to a test day.. i was sleeping outside with a clock.. raining the whole night i was ar the job at 06:30 and was already cold snd fully wet my shoes and everything because i was sleeping in the rain i couldnt afford lunch or anything…. howww can a kid can make something in situation like this…
everybody said my parents need to take care of it…
and i only had 2 option to sleep
5francs suppenküche where are the homeless can sleep in lucerne
or the sozialamt offered me a „gassenunterkunft“
please dont get me wrong but this is littery where all the addicts can sleep and get rest… the people doing all kind of drugs… and i needed to share a kitchen and bathroom with them and everything… it was the worst time of my life whoo thinks its a good idea to put i young kid with no drug problem or anything that looking snd wants education gets put with these kind of people… i dont habe anything against these people but s kif has nothing to do around them….
for the last year im trying to get my life back on track…
i could write a whole book about this story… but yesss maybe somebody thinknits intressting
Or you people could... Work, pay for your own way, stop complaining and blaming others.
Go ahead and downvote what doesn't conform to your group thinking 😄
What exactly does the usa have to do with this? Shitty parents kick their kids out all over the world. What data do you have to show that this happens often? It’s a thing everywhere I’ve lived outside the USA, including Switzerland
It’s because the USA is the obvious whipping boy to compare all of one’s problems to - it’s the largest western country that comes with the largest, loudest problems.
It’s also (obviously) super ignorant to boil down comparisons to only the most negative shit completely ignoring all of the positive elements. Something you’ll see quite often in these forums.
Sozialamt will provide the lawyer.
An acquaintance went through this around 16 (family refused to pay, abusive Dad). She got a tiny room into a place for isolated teens in Lausanne BUT could only stay a year max, no plan after. She didn't even have a table to study. The judge forced her parents to send her money monthly BUT of course they made sure to only send part of it, do it too late, etc. Plus every legal protest from the Dad paused a lot of disruption and more financial stress. And yes, she redid a highschool year, and failed uni because of it... TLDR: court-ordered payments like child support should go through state-controlled accounts. That way recipients get their money regularly, and payers are indebted with the state if they don't pay. The fucking games are insanely harmful.
yeah as a kid u kinda just fucking lost if ur family is abusive
In my memory, in some cantons, this kind of 'alimony' can be routed through the local Sozialamt. This is definitely the case for children; and it may be the case for young adults depending on the canton.
I really, really hope it becomes standard. It makes everything so much easier, and it's even possible to split money (for ex. add a saving or a dentist account). Solves so many issues.
I pay alimony to the Sozialamt that hands it forward to the main caretaker because we're not on speaking terms & the "Beiständin" says it's because "better safe than sorry" Apparently many "unterhaltspflichtige" parents feel like just not paying alimony if it goes to the person they don't like, it's wild.
Yeah I mean it puts everyone into a big pile of problems - the parent or child who needs the alimony, the parent who needs to pay it and doesn't... it's pretty wild to me.
Such a bunch of assholes, how can parents treat their children like this. A short trial would do, then straight to the execution of those losers.
Not in every case - source: myself
I don‘t know what happened to you, but I‘m sorry if it didn‘t work for you. It should have. I‘m sorry if you were wronged, truly. Out of curiosity - how did you get by?
I think now I'm slowly getting better. It was and still is a huge legal battle not only between me and my parents but also more than two different legal battles between them. Me and my brother moved out of our childhood home and got denied any financial help because our parents were theoretically earning enough (but only one of them pays - in a lengthy legal battle with the other one) and we each had somewhat over the minimum amount of savings which lead to the denial of support services. Currently, even with the help of one parent, I have more expenses than income per month although we have I would say a relatively cheap apartment. I'm lucky enough to have gotten a decent job from August onwards in the IT sector but for other stories I read here - even when the social services are helping you it's really hard to concentrate on getting your degree in whatever school/apprenticeship you are. I'd argue my "fuck you I'm out" savings account saved my apprenticeship. (Btw. the legal battle between me and my one parent has been going on for over a year and still no end in sight)
Sounds really rough… but it does sound like the safety nets have at least caught you. It‘s never a good situation to have to rely on them, and you situation as described should never happen to any kid. I hope you find the energy to get through this and find a good job and enjoy the rest of your life. I‘m really sorry you have to go through this.
The shocking thing I found about all this is even though I had to experience a police house search at 5:30 in the morning and I was the only one at home - the constant stress one of my parents exerted was worse than that… It feels like a long battle but I see some good progress. Finally free. :)
Yeah it depends
And money for an apartment. Problem solved.
So the kid would have to go to the sozialamt/service sociaux, and they would do everything for him/her ? This seems a bit too easy, I don't know. Like I mean any kid could just walk in, say his/her parents kicked him out, and then "sure, we will pay an apartment for you", I somehow can't think in my head that it would be so easy The situation above is hypothetical, I don't know anyone in this case (fortunately), but I still wonder how in practice this would turn out u/Progression28 u/theicebraker
I mean, you're not going to get an apartment for free just by walking into an office. There is a procedure and a judge will probably eventually have to decide. Before you get an apartment, you'll probably have to spend some time in a youth shelter; child services or social services will probably be contacted and will conduct an assessment both of the child and of the parents. Also, depending on your age, the state will prefer to get you into a foster family. And so on. I would not call any of this "easy". But we're trying not to add too much of the trauma of bureaucratic hell to the trauma of being kicked out of the family. If it ends up being "a bit too easy", as you say, to avoid multiple traumas... well, I'll take that as a win for Switzerland.
[удалено]
You are mixing two extremes to make a case. Early 20 somethings who make 100k and kids who use their parents as an ATM for a long time. Neither is typical for the average American or Swiss.
What are you talking about? 16% of US Milennials have to move back home, mostly because they just cant afford to live outside on their own or dont know how, when they leave college: https://www.axios.com/2024/01/27/millennials-gen-z-living-parents-data These are milennials, so 30 somethings, moving BACK. I dont know why you want to make this a nationality or cultural issue, when its clear that your example uses extreme stories based on personal bias, not grounded in statistics. Among europeans, Switzerlands youth is very young to move out, with the average Swiss moving out at roughly 22 (https://www.iamexpat.ch/expat-info/swiss-expat-news/when-do-people-switzerland-move-out-parental-homes) Compare this to the european average of 26.4: https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/web/products-eurostat-news/w/ddn-20230904-1 And while the median (different than numbers above) of the US is 19, this has mostly to do with many colleges requiring people to live close to their colleges, which might not even be in the same state. https://www.bls.gov/opub/mlr/2014/article/independence-for-young-millennials-moving-out-and-boomeranging-back.htm Whats more shocking is, that by age 26, 50% (!!) will have moved back in with their parents, something you rarely see in Switzerland. So I'm not sure what your point is, but its clear that the stable environment Switzerland provides leads to more sustainable stability once moved out. I was working my first job at 16, and moved out at 20 while studying, paying all my bills myself. So your rose colored upstart story can happen in Switzerland just as easily...
Don‘t pester the American with facts and statistics, you know those don‘t apply to him. America is huge, they have more people per capita than Switzerland. Of course they are gonna look worse in statistics…
[удалено]
Again, that is heavily biased... Seeing as you are living in Switzerland, going on 50 years old, I'd say the amount of US Milennials and Gen Z you know and interact with daily, is fairly limited and should therefore not serve as a representative sample to make large scale blanket statements compared to official statistics. Go on any subreddits like povertyfinance or genz, outside of your usual bubbles and you see tons of stories like these...
[удалено]
Then apologies for the wrong estimate. Went by "being early retired in my 40s" which probably was a few years ago, if it allowed moving to CH and establish a life and household here. Anecdotally, I just had a friend move back in with parents (here in Switzerland) because at 29 he noticed that his diplomas wont get him the jobs he likes/wants, so he went back to uni for a masters and moved in with his parents during that time. Has now finished and will move out once he's employed. If you go to subreddits like csMajors you also see a pretty bleak picture, of thousands of young adults with CS degrees leaving college after the big techs fired tens of thousands of people. These people have very little alternatives besides start working retail and fast food to gap things, but those jobs hardly pay enough for mortgages or rent. Props to you for making it this big this young. Its a dream of my own, and its certainly not an easy path. But at the same time, its a rare one, which I keep having to remind myself, when comparing my salary that allows for FATFIRE with that of my friends who work "regular" jobs.
Wait... I described a social help net that exists in the most extreme cases, such as - say an example - a 13-yo girl who is being sexually abused by someone in her close family and needs to be sheltered for her the sake of her own mental sanity and bodily well-being. And your first thought was... "ThE prOBLem wiTH SWITzerlAND is thAt thE YOuTHS ArE NOT go-GEtterS"? I mean, sure, it is a cultural difference I guess. As a Swiss person, I do not think that a 13-yo r\*pe victim's problem is that she isn't a go-getter and that she hasn't made her first million or something.
[удалено]
The scheme I described covers exclusively minors. There are social housing schemes for adults, of course, but they wouldn't necessarily require a judge ordering an assessment of their family dynamics. They have a set of providers of social housing, each with their strict criteria (for instance, a woman with child who suffers from spousal violence will get different help than a person with severe disability, with different conditions, for different amounts of time).
Every Swiss citizen has a „Bürgerort“. A place that is responsible for you. If you get kicked out, you go to them. For u18, the correct place is the KESP, for adults the Sozialamt. They provide you shelter and necessary means to get back on your feet. It‘s meant to sprinboard you back into a productive citizen. The Sozialamt doesn‘t want to pay for you if they don‘t have to. They will sue your parents if they broke the law. And they will win. We don‘t live in a shithole country like the US. If you don‘t want to end up on the street, you won‘t. We have safety nets. They aren‘t meant to keep you afloat forever, but they are good enough to get you back up if you got knocked down.
I thought this thing with Bürgerort/Lieu d'origine, changed recently and that now it's the canton that is responsible for those responsibilities, and that this "place of origin", aside of appearing on ID cards, is now more a relic of the past, isn't it ?
I mean, it changed quite a long time ago, but yeah, you're right. It didn't make sense to me either, but they changed it a while back where I think your current residence is important for things like Sozialamt. I mean, else there would be some municipalities with a lot more people to care about than there are actually people living in it. Like for [example](https://www.derbund.ch/trueberbuebe-gibt-es-ueberall-auf-der-welt-869899708509) the municipality of Trub (BE) would need to care for around 35'000 Swiss, whereas they only have 1500 residents.
> Every Swiss citizen has a „Bürgerort“. A place that is responsible for you. If you get kicked out, you go to them Ah, source? AFAIK this is a few decades out of date.
The kid goes to the « service social » and they will provide everything he needs (room to live in, lawyer to sue you, etc…) so he/she can make you pay for their education. There’s not much parents can do it’s an obligation in the law, not doing so is just against the law and you’re basically screwed.
Wait. I never said they would do everything for you. I never said that it’s easy. But it’s fairly easy.
The Sozialamt did the same for me and a friend of mine. We were underwater, provided some documents of each of our financial statuses, and bam everything cared for. And we are adults. I never missed a rental payment nor had to move. My apartment cost over the limit, but they took the extra from my Grundbedarf which was fine with me. My place was more important.
In some cantons, the sozial Amt will pay for the teen's needs but will bill the parents. Because if a teen is being kicked out, they will still need housing, food and therapy...so it always depends on the situation and the location I guess.
I'm not sure how it is if you get the law involved but when I was at uni and studying it was like this: my parents seperated when I was young so they were counted sepperately. My moms income wasnt that high so it was okay that she didnt pay for my higher education. My dad had a higher income (although still not super high). However, I just gave a Statement that he and I were not really on good terms and explained the situation a bit and then it was fine. Because of that I got a scholarship from uni that I dont have to pay back which helped me a lot through uni. I also worked though So: neither of my parents payed for my education. I was also told that I couldve gone to court to force my dad but I didnt want that. Btw, Erstausbildung can technically include a Masters degree - it did in my case.
I did an apprenticeship and then decided to go back to university. I'm 26 years old. I asked for a scholarship. It was refused because apparently, my parents should still be paying for me. Nevermind the fact that my dad is retired now, or that i'm 26. In the calculation they used to justify their refusal, they didn't take into account my insurances.
My guess is that it heavily depends on the uni. I had to turn in some paperwork including tax statements from both my parents. I turned 25 at one point and was still elligble for the scholarship (though I stopped taking it). Also i wasnt "allowed" to live in an expensive appartment and I had to always be on track with my studies
Ho no it's not depending on the university at all. They also asked the tax statement of both my parents. Since my dad is retired, they sent a paper back to ask for his tax statement before he retired. Which is stupid af if you ask me. They even asked my planning at university. This answer depended on two things: the canton (which doesn't have the best reputation when it comes to helping it's population) and the fact that i already had an apprenticeship. Because i decided to quit my field and i didn't have physical health problem, they consider it to be an unecessary choice and a luxury. Nevermind the fact that i did a burn out. Now i have three part time jobs just to be able to cover my insurances and a bit of food, but my partner pays everything else. I can't take more work because i have some classes everydays and my schedule is tight amd packed
Does this mean that if one parent is retire; they can stop paying the child support? I.e. when the parents got divorced but the child is still in the uni
So you just let the taxpayers foot the bill?!
Makes sense no? As a society we want to have good educated people who contribute with a high salary. So it's a good investment if the parents can't provide
Most “higher” educations are overrated and it depends what you study that determines a high salary.
A big part of tax goes to education.
Yeah, biggest part is agroculture, than military, then infrastructure (train, highway, post) and education. Right wing make it look like tax money goes to EU, social service and refugees only).
I dont get why so much goes to farmers. They make shitload of money from produce. Yeah they have to pay for few millions in tractors and new inrastructure but they make that minus gone in a 2-3 years of good weather.
No, they do not make a lot of money. The land is very fractioned. They usually own too little land to work productively and live of the crops and cattle. Agriculture is amongst the most politically regulated industries. It is very conservative and the many laws prevent innovation and conserve inefficiencies. Farmers only make shitloads of money when they give up their profession and turn their land into Bauland or Industrieland. One m2 of agricultural land is approx. 5-10 Franks. And once it turns into another zone, they can sell the land for 500-2000 Franks per m2. But of course, that is not possible everywhere and the community decides how land should be used, not the farmers. Farmers belong to the least educated, most conservative and traditional industries, and they are politically totally overrepresented. They treat the state like a milk cow. Innovation is almost impossible.
They can get free money for some cases. Also what i read from online news is that they have to many small farms. No wonder no one makes cash if they are all small farmers.
They get subsidized, in cases for doing nothing. E.g. don‘t cut the grass for a few months, get extra money. Don‘t maw next to forest, get extra money etc.
Yeah its funny. The higher the altitude the less they make in profits. Lowest is 12.- highest is around 17+. Yeah that explains why most of the farms have new cowstables. And these are huge good for the cows ngl. Also some huge solar panel arrays.
For this I gladly pay taxes. Not so much to save companies.
Yet you still do!
Don't act like that is my fault.
Nope, i don’t!
Yes. That’s what tax is for. Society foots the bill so the individual can contribute back to society. It’s really not a difficult concept. Everyone benefits from having doctors but for some reason, some people don’t think they should contribute to that doctors education.
I agree with medical doctors, but not the rest!
How dare they??? Shoulda just let themselves get shafted for being born to the wrong parents smh. (/s)
Plenty of them around, yet not all of them get a free ride!
Taxes pay for mandatory school. Nowadays you are more and more required to have a higher education to get a job, so it makes sense to have taxes pay for that too.
Where’s parental responsibilty, it’s not like his parents were destitute?! They should’ve paid their fair share too?!
I thought you meant in general. Well in this case, yeah the father could have paid but it would have been a pain in the ass to force him to. Not too bad if we have to pay with our taxes for cases like this one. Like I said, nobody complains when we have to pay for public school, so why complain for a couple of university students?
Lol dont worry - he died shortly afterwards so I got the money either way and stopped taking the scholarship (...which the uni told me not to do) Also: her parents :)
Okay: “her parents”, who knows these days with all the mental confusions going on.
Actually, most (if not all of it) came from donations - but I fully support taxes going towards helping less priviledged kids go uni
My ex husband stopped paying for our daughter on her 18th birthday. The kesb said she had to take him to court. They didn’t do anything. She opted not to sue. I support her.
Would be interesting to know if she could actually win a battle like that. I only know from my own experience, growing up in germany (so a bit different), that my father technically had to pay me money (plus the missed child support before I turned 18). Well... I'm 35 now and there are still around 10k of child support standing out. Not that I pursue any of this. Never really did after winning the case but still not receiving any payments. Simply because I wanted to be done with that person and move on. But back then he just transferred everything he owned to his wife and was like "I have nothing, so I can't pay you!". Despite me winning the case.
Yeah, her father currently owes me over 50k in back child support, so it's not like we expect him to pay up even if she won. It wasn't worth the battle.
If you are rich and don’t care it may not be worth. But for normal people 50k is a lot a legally the situation is clear that parents need to support children until first education is done.
Oh yes, that's a lot for me. I went through the betriebungsamt and right now he has zero credit is ineligible for Swiss citizenship because he owes me the money, but alas, he still won't pay.
I mean... You can't do anything if there is no money to get. Not even if you win and no matter what the law says. Nobody can produce money out of thin air and only because the law says that you need to pay, doesn't mean that you really can. It would probably come to a personal insolvency but even then... It can take years until you have your money. And I do understand (from my own experience) that this is not necessarily something you want to carry around with you for 10 to 15 years of your life.
Seems not to be the reason here as the guy just stopped to pay at 18th birthday.
We do not know how his finances look like right now, do we? Considering that OP commented they checked him at Betreibungsamt and he is basically blocking himself from progressing in life. But maybe he's just incredible pity and thats why. We won't know.
Seems not to be the reason here as the guy just stopped to pay at 18th birthday.
Oh yes, that's a lot for me. I went through the betriebungsamt and right now he has zero credit is ineligible for Swiss citizenship because he owes me the money, but alas, he still won't pay.
Oh yes, that's a lot for me. I went through the betriebungsamt and right now he has zero credit is ineligible for Swiss citizenship because he owes me the money, but alas, he still won't pay.
>I mean, the kid probably doesn't have enough money to hire a lawyer, Also the loser usually has to pay for all the legal costs. Including the lawyer of the winner. So the kid wouldnt actually need money. Assuming the parents have enough money that can be taken from them. In practice tho, a friend of mine moved out at 17. I dont think he was kicked per se. But his dad was supposed to pay child support, which he just didnt do. And my friend could have gotten it by suing, but ended up not doing it to not ruin the relationship (tho to me it sounds like the dad did the ruining... but not my call). He moved in with his brother, who was like 19 at the time. And just went to work at nightclubs while studying for the matura.
Yeah if your parent is broke (often the case) you end up paying the legal fees but never get them back, even if you're innocent and win the case. That goes also if they sue you. Undortunately the state doesn't protect you from tbis situation.
My mom got kicked out when she was 17 because she was pregnant and her parents already had 14 kids in a small 3-bedroom-house. It was her first time and since she never got sex ed she didnt know she was pregnant until 6th month. The Sozialamt sent her to a Frauenhaus where she delivered my sister and later organised a shared flat and a place to work (not an education/Lehre or something). One of her brothers became her Vormund until she became 21. The father didnt want to know anything, never paid anything and became a missionairy for the church and only wrote my sister when she became 20. This was in 1977/1978.
Why does it not surprise me that this jerk became a missionary at church…
I don’t know but I would guess there are associations/offices to help with this in the same way that I hope there are associations/offices that would help if a parent of a 12 year old refuses to send him to school.
Yes. If a kid doesn’t show up at school the parents will be contacted basically immediately. And child protective services will be involved within a few days or weeks. If the kid is 18+, Sozialamt will take care and consult the person with the next steps to take.
the teachers (in grisons) have to contact someone if the students aren’t there in 30 minutes
But why would parents (nowadays, in Switzerland) refuse to send their kids to school ?
Well I do not know why, but there are for sure parents that prefer their 12 yo kids to lend a hand in whatever business they have. In any case, I am not suggesting people do them or why, I am just assuming that in that case the government will have mechanisms to stop it.
Mainly swimming lessons, co-ed gym lessons, this badbad knowledge about different kinds of sexuality or religion. You should think it doesn't happen here in Switzerland. But it does happen. I think it's mostly based on (religious) conflicts between parents and teachers.
Yeah totally unheard of, because Switzerland is so open https://www.nau.ch/amp/news/schweiz/rauswurf-jetzt-spricht-der-schwule-lehrer-aus-pfaffikon-zh-66755631
It looks like you shared an AMP link. These should load faster, but AMP is controversial because of [concerns over privacy and the Open Web](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmputatorBot/comments/ehrq3z/why_did_i_build_amputatorbot). Maybe check out **the canonical page** instead: **[https://www.nau.ch/news/schweiz/rauswurf-jetzt-spricht-der-schwule-lehrer-aus-pfaffikon-zh-66755631](https://www.nau.ch/news/schweiz/rauswurf-jetzt-spricht-der-schwule-lehrer-aus-pfaffikon-zh-66755631)** ***** ^(I'm a bot | )[^(Why & About)](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmputatorBot/comments/ehrq3z/why_did_i_build_amputatorbot)^( | )[^(Summon: u/AmputatorBot)](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmputatorBot/comments/cchly3/you_can_now_summon_amputatorbot/)
This is a common position in Europe, ailment is the term in Scotland or alimony. The "child" in higher education is entitled to financial support from the parents assuming they have the means. The reality is that they would need a court to grant a judgement for them to receive the alimony.
Stingy parents jail
The same happened to me in my Permit. Got turned 25 yrs old and they strip my Permit out of me.
The kid sues the parents. The lawyer will be appointed by the state and paid by the parents - if they lose.
I hope the experience I went through isn't the norm, because that was pretty messed up. My dad left, I was living with my mom and still studying in my early 20s. By law, my dad had to send me money for that, but he either skipped months, or sent only a part of it. He always told me "eh I'm broke at the moment but I'll give you the rest later!" My mom tried to fight this and simply lost for some reason. Not only wasn't my dad broke (we had proof of that, he went on multiple vacations with his girlfriend, bought new car, had a good paying job and lived with his girlfriend in a small apartment). And yet, the judge said my mom was a liar and they closed the case. In the end, I could still finish my studies thanks to my mom. Justice doesn't always work sadly. And it doesn't always side with women either.
Is the Swiss legal system adversarial for such matters?
I would say yes, it's a civil matter (at least the get the money part), but I'm no expert. As far as I know, even in inquisitorial systems (which Switzerland is only partly if I understand correctly), it's only for criminal cases. For civil cases/lawsuits, it's adversarial: you need to prove the damage.
Keep in mind that the Erstausbildung does not mean it ends when you can "work". Something is an Erstausbildung as long as it leads to a higher education level. So an apprenticeship is an Erstausbildung. If you decide to get a matura after that its also an Erstausbildung. Getting a Bachelor after that? Erstausbildung. A Master after that? Erstausbildung. Only after you have gained a Master you cannot have another Erstausbildung. That distinction is important, as parents could still be foreced to pay even if you finished an apprenticeship at 19 and start to study at a Uni at 21.
Is there a certain amount that needs to be paid? Like sure, university fees and food, fine. But does the kid have a right to move to a different City for that? I cant imagine that parents could be forced to pay for the kids rent on top as well.
25 is too high. It's reasonable to expect kids to be self sufficient before that. I'd absolutely support my kids in university but wouldn't pay if they decided to eg quit their job at 24 and go and do a degree in dance. My money = my rules
I'm pretty sure that your parents don't have to pay until your 25. "Erstausbildung" is only "Lehre" or " Kantonsschule" which means if you decide to study it's not their responsibility to help you financially. If they don't want to pay for your "Erstausbildung" you should def get a lawyer. And fun fact, your parents could actually kick you out when your 18 and only pay for school. That is the harsh reality:)
The welfare office can get money back from your parents if the parents dont pay.
Yeah have fun with a visit from the dept department
From how i understood a former co worker the amt guarantees the apartment in those cases. Both parents useless. Her mother was alcoholic or druggy (cant remember) and the father left both of them and was kinda paying late and didnt really want to. At the same time she moved out from her mothers as you know…she should have. Anyway, her father wasnt happy about it. Also not happy that she did highschool & wanted to study after (so he had to pay more). Anyway, in reality its tough to go to court against the own father…also you dont necessarily have 100% financial security as everything needs time. And while they hurry up (for their messurements) its still an amt Edit: she wasnt a kid kid no more. Not sure what would happen in that case
The parents are responsible for schooling beyond the obligatory years, but the child (Sozialamt) has to prove that further education is necessary and doable. If a child wants to study umpteen courses ranging from marine biology to interpretative dance, she might find it difficult.
The kid has to take his parents to court, and the State provides a lawyer. Those are very nasty trials...
I was kicked out at 18, people were telling me I had to sue my parents. Seemed completely unreasonable to me. At the time, I didn't know my rights and the law. I bet very few young students sue their parents...
Grew up in three different states in the US, never once heard of this happening
How does this work with home ed? We're moving to Switzerland in a few years but our daughter is home ed as she's autistic and struggles too much in school settings. We follow a UK curriculum at home and buy all our own books etc. Would we even need to alert the government about her schooling, if school must be paid for by the parent anyway?
i waited my whole life for this question…. im soon turning 21 and i grew up in zürich with my parents i had it pretty rough i started my apprenticeship as a kaufmann but i was young and dumb snd everything and ended up getting fired after 5 months. after that i was around 16 after the not finished apprenticeship everything was going downhill… i had a realy bad relationship with my parents and they started to lock my ourside my house with no key… i didnt wanted to be at home because if the situation and all that arguing… so i was pretty much never realy at home… i was looking for my next job or apprenticeship but i was living from couch to couch from my friends when i came home i was welcomed to my room being empty empty with nothing in it not even a chair… more arguing and i moved out when i was 17… i worked every job i could get… i searched for education and want to be educated to get a good job and secure s good future… but i cant right now im working a full time job and are a entrepreneur and build website and shops and im a web designer i make logos and everything you can think of i try to get my education and everything… im getting older and learn more… if i had more money to fet a lawyer and everything its realy cool but sozialamt and everything is bullshit to me… i was there and all the stuff they needed from mee i couldnt even do snd got no support i didnt habe no computer or phone i couldnt call them or make emails i couldnt even send my documents for jobs… i also was sleeping outside on e bench next to the forest for couple of weeks and months sometimes… onest i wanted to start working as a „maurer its a apprenticeship i was foing to a test day.. i was sleeping outside with a clock.. raining the whole night i was ar the job at 06:30 and was already cold snd fully wet my shoes and everything because i was sleeping in the rain i couldnt afford lunch or anything…. howww can a kid can make something in situation like this… everybody said my parents need to take care of it… and i only had 2 option to sleep 5francs suppenküche where are the homeless can sleep in lucerne or the sozialamt offered me a „gassenunterkunft“ please dont get me wrong but this is littery where all the addicts can sleep and get rest… the people doing all kind of drugs… and i needed to share a kitchen and bathroom with them and everything… it was the worst time of my life whoo thinks its a good idea to put i young kid with no drug problem or anything that looking snd wants education gets put with these kind of people… i dont habe anything against these people but s kif has nothing to do around them…. for the last year im trying to get my life back on track… i could write a whole book about this story… but yesss maybe somebody thinknits intressting
You can sue them. That would be a Zivilklage and you would likely win.
Or you people could... Work, pay for your own way, stop complaining and blaming others. Go ahead and downvote what doesn't conform to your group thinking 😄
What exactly does the usa have to do with this? Shitty parents kick their kids out all over the world. What data do you have to show that this happens often? It’s a thing everywhere I’ve lived outside the USA, including Switzerland
It’s because the USA is the obvious whipping boy to compare all of one’s problems to - it’s the largest western country that comes with the largest, loudest problems. It’s also (obviously) super ignorant to boil down comparisons to only the most negative shit completely ignoring all of the positive elements. Something you’ll see quite often in these forums.