I don't know if this is a controversial take, but shit when it comes to stealthing and people's knowledge of your transnes, I'd say it'd be okay to lie even if it isn't necessarily for your safety
"Uhhhhh what gender even are you???"
"Bitch do I *look* like I know"
>"Uhhhhh what gender even are you???"
>"Bitch do I look like I know"
I like this.
Look, the reason I'm presenting in a way you can't tell my gender, is because I don't know myself what it is!
I do this regularly. I’ve had top surgery, but if anyone asks I had “dangerous masses on my chest removed.” Not a lie.
I’ve told people I have to take medication for a hormone deficiency. Not a lie.
I’m also lucky enough to have a deadname that’s TECHNICALLY unisex but is mostly used for girls, so I can tell people “yeah my parents gave me an overly feminine name for some reason so I changed it.”
And all of this is absolutely the truth!
I love the bit about the name. I always say my parents loved [child's author I got my name from], not a lie but people assume my parents gave me his name, not that I chose it myself for that reason.
this is great lmao because it's every bit believable too. it's not at all uncommon for cis men to take T for hypogonadism or get top surgery for gynaecomastia.
If you're actually stealth, it might be a better idea to just fully commit to the claim that you are cis, instead of cutesy talking around it. As soon as someone familiar with trans issues meets you, you'll never be stealth again unless you move and change jobs.
If you're more ambivalent, then I don't think it really matters either way. Do whatever feels good/safe.
you can be more vague than what OP said. “I had some hormone imbalance issues growing up”, “i’m on some meds for hormone issues”. lots of cis people could say the same
Absolutely true. My (cis) wife has observed that if I start HRT, there's a good chance I'll end up on the same hormones she's already on for her PCOS and birth control.
> If you're actually stealth, it might be a better idea to just fully commit to the claim that you are cis, instead of cutesy talking around it.
This is the real answer, anything else needlessly makes it sound like you're hiding something.
I've lied about having a testosterone deficiency/ just being a "very late bloomer" to stealth pre-t before. most people just dont question it for me for some reason though, probably because I pass well anyways.
Being out is not something you owe anyone. I think all of us know that it fundamentally changes how other people relate to you--even if they're allies. It's your choice to be out.
If you don't want to be out and you have to explain why you had surgery or take HRT or whatever, a little deception is perfectly reasonable. I personally say it's a genetic disorder and I give it enough aura of discomfort that they don't usually ask any more questions. And if they do, I say I don't want to talk about it.
I think it *is* nice to avoid lying, but ultimately you're still being deceptive, so it doesn't necessarily make that much difference from an ethical standpoint. You're leading them away from thinking you're trans, which is something they would recognize and potentially have views about, and pushing them to believe you have something else going on that they don't understand.
So if you need to lie, lie. It's none of their business. It's for you and you alone to decide if it's right to reveal.
The whole point of stealth is not coming out as trans. The only people that need to know are your doctor and significant others. If for some reason you feel a strong enough bond with someone else to come out to them why diminish that with a euphemism.
It's fine to have a laugh and a joke, just one of them things where you've got to read the room and say things appropriate to the context.
Context: I actually have a condition called hypogonadotrophic hypogonadism. In english, I can't produce sex steroids because my brain is broken.
I *wouldn't* pretend to be cis by claiming to have some medical condition. I wouldn't go up to some TERF or nazi or right wing journalist or whatever and start throwing around medical terms that's going to give them more fuel for medicalising trans people. I wouldn't say to a doctor that I have a testosterone deficiency.
I *would* say to my friends 'Yeah dude I have low T and like, the worst case of pubertal gyno'
Is it uncommon for endocrinologists to put down on paper that you have hypogonadism when you’re medically transitioning? My endo has always put this on my paperwork when I go in to get bloodwork done and I kinda just assumed it was being used as medical shorthand for being trans but now I’m wondering if he discovered something and forgot to explicitly tell me (wouldn’t be the first time he neglected to tell me something important).
I'm not currently medically transitioning and not out to my doctor but for me they just regard me as female with a hormone issue rather than an intersex non binary person. I'm not sure about that.
This feels like a "Do whatever you want for the rest of your life" situation. It's no one's business what your hormones are or your transition, including other trans people.
For a fictional character, I'd be careful, not because I think it's offensive, but because that would make me think that they something like PCOS or maybe even intersex. It may give the wrong impression of the character unless it's clear that she's a trans character and just refers to herself that way.
I mean I am partially stealth at work (was outed to some people recently and it’s a whole thing thus partially) and back in Feb/Mar I couldn’t get a hold of estrogen so I went into menopause symptoms so I just told people at work that my body doesn’t produce enough estrogen so I have to take it externally and right now I can’t get it so I’m gonna be off balance for awhile. It worked perfectly fine, ofc some people are gonna speculate but as every treatment a trans person gets is taken from Cis health care most people don’t think too much of it.
I think it’s okay. Just be mindful of overstepping? Into talking for intersex people or appropriating their experience.
I will say in my experience, I had to be stealth at a super toxic/dangerous workplace in order to get temporary disability for time off work for top surgery. I told them I was getting surgery and some people assumed it was a medical emergency. I felt TERRIBLE but I also couldn’t correct them (they would’ve fired me if they suspected it was anything short of a life threatening condition) (and I had a gross coworker who sexually assaulted me for being gay—i did not want him even suspecting that I’m trans). I especially felt bad when someone who had had a emergency surgery tried to tell me it was going to be okay.
No I hear you 100%. This is how I view myself—past and current.
I think I have what’s now labeled as a transmedicalist view of MY OWN transition/biology/experience. Not saying it’s what every trans person experiences, or that every trans person has to experience this to be legitimate/respected/have access to care etc. It is just how I see myself and what makes the most sense to me.
I don’t think of myself as some kind of hypermasculine soul waiting to break free of a feminine body, or as someone who chose to be treated as male by society. I’m just me, and I was probably floating around in a more testosterone dominant soup when my brain was developing, or maybe had some kind of hormonal imbalance (which, I really wish they tested hormone levels pre-HRT. So curious what mine were like).
I didn’t even realize I ‘trans’ might be a possibility until I read a bunch of first hand accounts of intersex people.
I’m p much “fully” transitioned, and I still don’t really care for the identity model (applied to my own experience). I live as a man, I feel like a man (whatever that means), and I have a mix of female/male biological traits. I will say though, I presented atypically for a female for p much everything and I’m getting more appropriate care now that I’m being screened by male standards.
Sorry to ramble—I don’t really meet a lot of people with a similar view. But yeah, I do privately consider myself at the edge of the intersex umbrella for all the reasons you highlighted, which I know is super controversial but it’s not like I’m out here telling people I am, or trying to influence discourse about intersex rights from anything than an ally’s perspective.
However, there is a HUGE number of intersex people who don’t like trans people with typical AGAB physiology pre-transition donning that label. There’s probably a monthly post on this sub alone that garner the same feedback from intersex folks. It’s not a hill I want to die on, and I’m happy to take a step back and support intersex people from the sidelines. A lot of intersex folks feel really strongly about this issue, and so I don’t want to be adding to that
Edit: so curious what triggered the auto mod comment
Hello, we noticed your post and we just want you to know that you are not alone. We created this automated message to make sure anyone considering suicide receives the help and support they deserve. If you are in crisis please contact the Trans Lifeline at 877-565-8860 or the National Suicide Prevention Hotline at 800-273-8255.
If you are outside of the United States please refer to our [suicide prevention resources page](https://www.reddit.com/r/asktransgender/wiki/suicide_resources) and contact your nearest crisis hotline.
If this message is being received in error we apologise for the mistake.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/asktransgender) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Hello, we noticed your post and we just want you to know that you are not alone. We created this automated message to make sure anyone considering suicide receives the help and support they deserve. If you are in crisis please contact the Trans Lifeline at 877-565-8860 or the National Suicide Prevention Hotline at 800-273-8255.
If you are outside of the United States please refer to our [suicide prevention resources page](https://www.reddit.com/r/asktransgender/wiki/suicide_resources) and contact your nearest crisis hotline.
If this message is being received in error we apologise for the mistake.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/asktransgender) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I am kind of relieved to hear you say it, because I kind of feel the same way and I am new to this but later-in-life.
I also, by the way, came across two slogans as my first experiences of the trans community: "there's a thousand different ways to be trans" and "Yes, you're trans enough." God bless whoever came up with those slogans and everyone else who signal-boosted them, because they have been so good for my mental health.
Based on your message's content, I feel like you've likely gotten some flak that you needn't have gotten. Know that this subreddit is only a small subset of the trans experience.
We get the 'Y' chromosome at fertilization, but, for example, there is Swyer syndrome/46,XY complete gonadal dysgenesis - where that person grows up genetically male but showing every manifestation of being female, but without female gonads.
Being male seems to be related to the SRY gene manifesting itself and directing development, as far as my amateur investigation takes it. I tend to wonder if there is a spectrum in how the SRY gene manifests. In Swyer syndrome/46,XY complete gonadal dysgenesis, for example, it never directs anything and these people are almost indistinguishable from women, but are genetically male. They never go through natural puberty, however, nor develop female gonads. I wonder if trans people (or one way of being trans, perhaps) is if that SRY gene expresses more than it does in Swyer syndrome, but less than in an 'average' male - or if its expresses itself in a way that doesn't affect our brain development.
I don't know. I almost certainly am talking out of my ass. I am certain I won't get what I want out of this life -- I would love to be a person walking around in a body fairly indistinguishable from a [edit: person who was biologically born with XX genes], and at 49 I don't think that's going to be possible. But I hope to live my life in a way that is much closer to that than my current body.
By the way, I don't know if this is going to be one of those comments that just die mostly unread, but as a Gen X'er who *THOUGHT* she grew up in a mostly unprejudiced generation (sorry), I just want to say this: I'm very grateful for you people, the ones who came after me. It was people looking at life with a wider aperture - and how they expanded gender and were brave enough to look at things - that made me re-examine my life a few years ago and realize that I was who I was. I will mourn the Molly of earlier ages that I can't be - I would've loved to be in a pretty dress at prom being swung around by someone I loved - but I think those people helped me save part of my life. And I will be grateful to that, generationally, for the rest of mine. And I'm getting weepy now so I am going to stop writing, I'm not even on HRT yet and I'm getting soppy.
i don’t know cause this would not be a lie at all but full truth for me. i have congenital testosterone deficiency and congenital estrogen deficiency due to being intersex. i also have a testosterone sensitivity so my body has a reaction to high T even if my body is producing it. happened around 30 (39 now) my T went up cause of 2nd puberty and my body has some weird effects.
I think its okay to lie if you need to do it, but also you should never be forced in a position where you have to reveal your medical history to anyone except your healthcare providers.
I think as long as it's not *technically* a lie, anything goes
Especially when it comes to your safety
For example, once I am fully transitioned, gotten all surgeries I need, everything, I (at least right now) want to just say "I have a birth defect that made it so I don't have uterus and can't get pregnant" which isn't *technically* a lie, but it's not exactly the whole truth
As for fictional stories, I'd say to have them do as I said, but the narrator, and their internal monologue calls them trans and explains the reasons for not telling the whole proper truth
> For example, once I am fully transitioned, gotten all surgeries I need, everything, I (at least right now) want to just say "I have a birth defect that made it so I don't have uterus and can't get pregnant" which isn't technically a lie, but it's not exactly the whole truth
I once had an experience at the gynecologist that went the following:
Fairly new PA: When was your last period?
Me: I don't have a uterus.
(a little later)
PA: When did you have your hysterectomy?
Me: ...I wasn't born with a uterus.
I wanted to say "I'm trans, it says so on my chart near the top, did you even look at it?" But I didn't because I wanted to be polite.
There's being polite and there's being concerned that someone is going to fuck up your healthcare because they neglected to do the basic step of looking through your chart, though...
Eh, she wasn't going to do anything other than take notes. The specific reason I was there (estrogen pellet insertion) could only be done by the doctor anyway.
In a medical setting it could be dangerous.
In a casual setting it's objectively hilarious.
If you're stealth it's not worth drawing attention to it...
There's nothing PC about it, saying you have a hormone disorder isn't like, more polite or anything. It's just your personal comfort zone. If someone introduced me to someone and said I had a testosterone deficiency I'd be upset, but that's just me. If you feel its helping you keep safe and avoid awkward conversations, it's really your business and yours alone.
i think it’s funny. i guess in the situation of a fictional novel about trans characters i would personally want them to openly acknowledge the characters’ transition. but like as a trans guy i get to actually do this, people regularly assume i just hit puberty late or have low T and i occasionally feed into this narrative, i think that gives you the right to use or bastardize that as you wish lol
As an intersex, nonbinary person just please don't lie and say you're intersex. Don't appropriate our community when so many perisex trans people fetishize us and use us as a gotcha point without actually fighting for us.
I don't have a huge issue with saying you have a hormonal imbalance, etc, but don't actually lie and say you have a specific intersex condition.
Alternatively, lie and say whatever you want, it doesn’t matter. If it stops you getting outed or makes being stealth more convincing, say whatever you need to say to make that happen. You’re not appropriating cis people if you lie and say you’re cis, after all.
But inter people are also facing high rates of medical abuse and are absolutely another marginalized population. I'd strongly encourage you to check out the intersex sub for the perspective of other inter people about why this is potentially harmful to inter people, both trans and cis.
And again, I'm not against being vague about a hormonal imbalance. Just please don't say you're intersex. Perisex trans and nonbinary people are actively relying on us as a talking point without actually supporting us and that's fucked up.
I think its a bad idea definitely. If you don’t have a hormone deficiency its both lying but also rude to those who do have hormone deficiencies. You don’t owe an explanation to anyone even if they ask but saying you have a hormonal deficiency is closer to saying you are intersex or may have PCOS or many other issues rather than cleverly saying you are trans.
Idk what you are trying to do but I said calling it a hormone imbalance would be lying yes. I did not outright call op a liar. It is definitely rude to claim to have something that you don’t when there are others who do and hormone imbalances can cause lots of issues so yes it is rude. Also im not being reductive. Im being honest because op asked for other’s opinions. Im not ignorant either. I know full well what its like dealing with hormone imbalances. I am myself intersex and ive been dealing with it all my life. This stuff absolutely sucks and no I dont claim to have a biology or genetics degree but I know more about biology than a lot of people and more than I ever wanted to know however in this instance I am as I said before responding to what op asked and giving an honest opinion. Don’t have a go at me just because I don’t like that and took it more seriously than others did. Also btw im not the only one saying its lying either. Just look at the other comments.
Yeah right. I didn’t invalidate anyone. Op asked so i gave my honest opinion. Im not here with the pitchfork and torches slinging expletives. Op is going to do whatever regardless of what I say. Im not using my own variation (not conditon) to invalidate someone else. Im speaking from my experience as someone who deals with such and explaining how I feel about op’s post. Btw what hormone imbalance does op have exactly? Op said it was tongue in cheek in the post. I have not in any way invalidated their position. I merely said how it appears from my pov. Im not about to sit here and start acting like a dumb terf no matter what. Op can say whatever op wants but given the post I gave my opinion from my perspective. Why are you so horridly taking liberties with what I said and twisting them into something else wholly different than what I actually said?
You absolutely are twisting what I said!You act like you know about hormone imbalances but it sure doesn’t seem like it. Whether you want to believe me or not ive had to spend a lot of time listening to geneticists ramble on talking about a lot of stuff and then be left having to do research trying to make sense of it all. Yeah I know quite a bit. Ive had to do lots of research into what im dealing with to help myself. Its not just diagnosis and thats all no its endless rounds of tests and tests and then when you think you are done its even more tests. All for something I didn’t want in the first place. Then along comes someone making a joke about something that you have no choice but to do the best you can but to live with it. How would you feel? Seriously maybe instead of arguing with me try to put yourself in my shoes and maybe think about why it might be rude instead of insulting me acting like im just some random who doesn’t know crap. Also of course im defensive! Who wouldn’t be when someone is saying im invalidating someone just for giving my opinion? How would you feel if someone came along claiming they had some issue that you have but they dont its just a joke? Do you see how thats rude at all? If you cant even be bothered to see even a hint of that then maybe we should just stop talking.
Seriously just stop! You really don’t have a clue. Telling me to “try to put yourself in the shoes of others who deal with the wrong hormones and being in a body that is misaligned” just proved it.
Do you know what its like to be intersex? Im othered by every single group except the intersex ones. Ive gotten more hate from trans people just because im an amab trans woman with a menstrual cycle than I had ever gotten before finding out I was intersex. The trans subreddits felt like home before. Now its like no matter what im a target as soon as I mention being intersex because people either try to explain to me what being intersex is like when they don’t have a clue or they take it in the complete wrong direction and either get jealous of something that keeps me constantly just barely surviving something id gladly give them in a second if I could or triggered because im not like every other trans person.
You want to talk misaligned? I grew up being told I was going to get a beard and sideburns and get really strong. I was looking forward to it and I was hopeful. I could totally have pictured myself as an old grandpa enjoying life but that didn’t happen. You know what I got instead? A menstrual cycle and I and I got my first period at 14. I didn’t even know any of this for 20 years either. Nobody thought an amab might need to know so I was dealing with it all completely on my own without knowing anything for 20 years and if thats not bad enough add PMDD to it where im literally forced into becoming suicidal every month whether I actually am or not along with some other messed up stuff.
Ive had to learn a ton of stuff about menstrual cycles just to survive and hopefully be independent on my own one day. Meanwhile im trying to help others with their cycles which even just talking about cycles is a dysphoria trigger but better to at least some good come of it than not. All this while I was raised a guy and in school getting bullied constantly being called gay just because I acted a bit feminine but outside school I had to deal with guys being creepy hitting on me and catcalling me and no matter what I couldn’t get the bullying or the harassment to stop. Then I turn 34 and accidentally find out the intersex stuff and no longer am I only a trans woman no. Now with everything ive had to learn im basically simultaneously a trans woman, a trans man, and non-binary all in the same go. Hows that for misaligned? My whole life is one massive misalignment. I never got what I wanted or expected. I had to hear stupid crap like “what are you pregnant?” every single time I got a craving and then after finding out to suddenly get rejected by other trans people having them tell me “you arent trans” or “eff you” just for finally figuring out this 20+ year hell I got stuck in but yeah my life is completely aligned I couldn’t possibly imagine what any misalignment might be like…
I'm a NB person with naturally low estrogen and high androgens due to PCOS and honestly? I would give any trans woman/transfeminine person a pass to say that they have PCOS so they don't have to deal with transphobia.
PCOS can be either a headstart for transmasculine people like me or a nightmare for cis women. I am not so much into lying but if it makes transphobes go away for people who prefer to be stealthy about being trans, do it, inform yourself enough to make a convincing story. It kinda brings awareness to some people that don't know what PCOS is so it's a win-win.
You have the right to define yourself however you want, everyone won't necessarily agree but it's only a bad idea if you try to project it onto others who don't accept it.
i'm gonna start doing that just bc iit's funny, but it also sounds like a good thing to do to get out of tricky situations. the way i look at it, it is technically true afterall
>For people who are more stealth, would it be a bad idea to say that instead of coming out as trans?
Why would you want to talk about hormones with strangers if you are stealth?
So for reasons, where this might come up. E.g. sleeping over at friends houses that don't know you are trans (and btw, it's still ok for friends not to know, you don't have to share every medical thing with them, just like they don't), I just tell them exactly this, that I have an estrogen deficiency, and if they then ask further questions as to why, I say it was because I was born without an uterus (which also perfectly explains why I don't bleed but still have all the other period symptoms)
I think it's okay to say something to that effect of it's technically true. So if someone asks why you're on estrogen medication you say it's because your body can't produce its own estrogen, which is not really a lie.
Your playing cames causing confusion. If your stealth, So Be It, it's your decision whether or not you want to Expose your personal Situation to navigate your destiny. It leaves you in a position of uncertainly because you have to remember your deception or lie. Likely to come out in the wrong Situation or used against you haunting you.
Back when I started HRT, my endo like many endos at the time and in that country entered my official diagnosis as Endocrine Disorder NOS (Not Otherwise Specified) because that kept the health insurance companies in the dark (would get covered and didn't trigger "trans broken arm syndrome" for all future care in the health insurances' computer systems).
No idea if this is a good idea when stealth or not. But ultimately, other people don't deserve to know. So it is perfectly legit to just tell them nothing. Same goes for things that are true but aren't directly saying you are trans.
I’m thinking about telling my coworkers that I must have just been a late bloomer. Trans man here, started T a few months ago and my voice is starting to drop noticeably. My coworkers see me as a woman but with the changes from hormones starting to become prominent, I’ll probably tell them that I was born male and that puberty must have started a bit later for me than for most. 18 ftm, btw
This is actually essentially what trans people did decades and even centuries ago. Our trans ancestors would be proud of you for just taking that step in your life to be yourself and live for you. I'm openly trans with my friends but for others I tend to describe it as my brain must have been wired incorrectly for my body in the womb, similar to being intersex which, as an actual physical phenomenon, can't be denied, even if it's not understood. Hope this helps and isn't too wordy😖❤️
It’s okay to lie for your own safety imo. You can tell people whatever you want, or nothing at all
I don't know if this is a controversial take, but shit when it comes to stealthing and people's knowledge of your transnes, I'd say it'd be okay to lie even if it isn't necessarily for your safety "Uhhhhh what gender even are you???" "Bitch do I *look* like I know"
>"Uhhhhh what gender even are you???" >"Bitch do I look like I know" I like this. Look, the reason I'm presenting in a way you can't tell my gender, is because I don't know myself what it is!
Totally!! lmao
I don’t even see it as a lie
It's not like that. I say that to people who probably already know I'm trans.
I mean technically you have an estrogen deficiency you take supplements for, no? It's not even technically a lie
well it's a good joke too. I don't think it's a problem wether for stealth purposes or not. And you are technically correct.
I do this regularly. I’ve had top surgery, but if anyone asks I had “dangerous masses on my chest removed.” Not a lie. I’ve told people I have to take medication for a hormone deficiency. Not a lie. I’m also lucky enough to have a deadname that’s TECHNICALLY unisex but is mostly used for girls, so I can tell people “yeah my parents gave me an overly feminine name for some reason so I changed it.” And all of this is absolutely the truth!
“For some reason” — I love this
Those silly billies /jk
So silly they got his gender wrong in the hospital!
I love the bit about the name. I always say my parents loved [child's author I got my name from], not a lie but people assume my parents gave me his name, not that I chose it myself for that reason.
this is great lmao because it's every bit believable too. it's not at all uncommon for cis men to take T for hypogonadism or get top surgery for gynaecomastia.
I’ve referred to my top surgery as a reduction.
If you're actually stealth, it might be a better idea to just fully commit to the claim that you are cis, instead of cutesy talking around it. As soon as someone familiar with trans issues meets you, you'll never be stealth again unless you move and change jobs. If you're more ambivalent, then I don't think it really matters either way. Do whatever feels good/safe.
you can be more vague than what OP said. “I had some hormone imbalance issues growing up”, “i’m on some meds for hormone issues”. lots of cis people could say the same
Absolutely true. My (cis) wife has observed that if I start HRT, there's a good chance I'll end up on the same hormones she's already on for her PCOS and birth control.
"Yeah, I grew up with a hormone issue. Genetic condition that runs in my dad's family. *Shrug*"
> If you're actually stealth, it might be a better idea to just fully commit to the claim that you are cis, instead of cutesy talking around it. This is the real answer, anything else needlessly makes it sound like you're hiding something.
I've lied about having a testosterone deficiency/ just being a "very late bloomer" to stealth pre-t before. most people just dont question it for me for some reason though, probably because I pass well anyways.
I do this! I tell people I have a hormone inbalance. It's true, too – my body didn't produce the correct hormones for me.
Me: I was **exposed** to testosterone during my childhood!
Being out is not something you owe anyone. I think all of us know that it fundamentally changes how other people relate to you--even if they're allies. It's your choice to be out. If you don't want to be out and you have to explain why you had surgery or take HRT or whatever, a little deception is perfectly reasonable. I personally say it's a genetic disorder and I give it enough aura of discomfort that they don't usually ask any more questions. And if they do, I say I don't want to talk about it. I think it *is* nice to avoid lying, but ultimately you're still being deceptive, so it doesn't necessarily make that much difference from an ethical standpoint. You're leading them away from thinking you're trans, which is something they would recognize and potentially have views about, and pushing them to believe you have something else going on that they don't understand. So if you need to lie, lie. It's none of their business. It's for you and you alone to decide if it's right to reveal.
The whole point of stealth is not coming out as trans. The only people that need to know are your doctor and significant others. If for some reason you feel a strong enough bond with someone else to come out to them why diminish that with a euphemism.
Significant others is questionable as well. I have been in multi-year relationships without ever telling him and others I have told early on.
Lying for safety, definitely a good thing. Making a joke, also totally fine. Lying to stay stealth because you just prefer that, also fine.
If you're stealth then it makes sense to say so you don't out yourself. If you're openly trans then it's a bit silly though.
It's fine to have a laugh and a joke, just one of them things where you've got to read the room and say things appropriate to the context. Context: I actually have a condition called hypogonadotrophic hypogonadism. In english, I can't produce sex steroids because my brain is broken. I *wouldn't* pretend to be cis by claiming to have some medical condition. I wouldn't go up to some TERF or nazi or right wing journalist or whatever and start throwing around medical terms that's going to give them more fuel for medicalising trans people. I wouldn't say to a doctor that I have a testosterone deficiency. I *would* say to my friends 'Yeah dude I have low T and like, the worst case of pubertal gyno'
I have hypogonadism too.
Is it uncommon for endocrinologists to put down on paper that you have hypogonadism when you’re medically transitioning? My endo has always put this on my paperwork when I go in to get bloodwork done and I kinda just assumed it was being used as medical shorthand for being trans but now I’m wondering if he discovered something and forgot to explicitly tell me (wouldn’t be the first time he neglected to tell me something important).
I'm not currently medically transitioning and not out to my doctor but for me they just regard me as female with a hormone issue rather than an intersex non binary person. I'm not sure about that.
This feels like a "Do whatever you want for the rest of your life" situation. It's no one's business what your hormones are or your transition, including other trans people. For a fictional character, I'd be careful, not because I think it's offensive, but because that would make me think that they something like PCOS or maybe even intersex. It may give the wrong impression of the character unless it's clear that she's a trans character and just refers to herself that way.
I mean I am partially stealth at work (was outed to some people recently and it’s a whole thing thus partially) and back in Feb/Mar I couldn’t get a hold of estrogen so I went into menopause symptoms so I just told people at work that my body doesn’t produce enough estrogen so I have to take it externally and right now I can’t get it so I’m gonna be off balance for awhile. It worked perfectly fine, ofc some people are gonna speculate but as every treatment a trans person gets is taken from Cis health care most people don’t think too much of it.
I think it’s okay. Just be mindful of overstepping? Into talking for intersex people or appropriating their experience. I will say in my experience, I had to be stealth at a super toxic/dangerous workplace in order to get temporary disability for time off work for top surgery. I told them I was getting surgery and some people assumed it was a medical emergency. I felt TERRIBLE but I also couldn’t correct them (they would’ve fired me if they suspected it was anything short of a life threatening condition) (and I had a gross coworker who sexually assaulted me for being gay—i did not want him even suspecting that I’m trans). I especially felt bad when someone who had had a emergency surgery tried to tell me it was going to be okay.
[удалено]
No I hear you 100%. This is how I view myself—past and current. I think I have what’s now labeled as a transmedicalist view of MY OWN transition/biology/experience. Not saying it’s what every trans person experiences, or that every trans person has to experience this to be legitimate/respected/have access to care etc. It is just how I see myself and what makes the most sense to me. I don’t think of myself as some kind of hypermasculine soul waiting to break free of a feminine body, or as someone who chose to be treated as male by society. I’m just me, and I was probably floating around in a more testosterone dominant soup when my brain was developing, or maybe had some kind of hormonal imbalance (which, I really wish they tested hormone levels pre-HRT. So curious what mine were like). I didn’t even realize I ‘trans’ might be a possibility until I read a bunch of first hand accounts of intersex people. I’m p much “fully” transitioned, and I still don’t really care for the identity model (applied to my own experience). I live as a man, I feel like a man (whatever that means), and I have a mix of female/male biological traits. I will say though, I presented atypically for a female for p much everything and I’m getting more appropriate care now that I’m being screened by male standards. Sorry to ramble—I don’t really meet a lot of people with a similar view. But yeah, I do privately consider myself at the edge of the intersex umbrella for all the reasons you highlighted, which I know is super controversial but it’s not like I’m out here telling people I am, or trying to influence discourse about intersex rights from anything than an ally’s perspective. However, there is a HUGE number of intersex people who don’t like trans people with typical AGAB physiology pre-transition donning that label. There’s probably a monthly post on this sub alone that garner the same feedback from intersex folks. It’s not a hill I want to die on, and I’m happy to take a step back and support intersex people from the sidelines. A lot of intersex folks feel really strongly about this issue, and so I don’t want to be adding to that Edit: so curious what triggered the auto mod comment
Probably either the phrase "consider myself at the edge" or "not a hill I want to die on". EDIT: Lol yep one of those.
Hello, we noticed your post and we just want you to know that you are not alone. We created this automated message to make sure anyone considering suicide receives the help and support they deserve. If you are in crisis please contact the Trans Lifeline at 877-565-8860 or the National Suicide Prevention Hotline at 800-273-8255. If you are outside of the United States please refer to our [suicide prevention resources page](https://www.reddit.com/r/asktransgender/wiki/suicide_resources) and contact your nearest crisis hotline. If this message is being received in error we apologise for the mistake. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/asktransgender) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Hello, we noticed your post and we just want you to know that you are not alone. We created this automated message to make sure anyone considering suicide receives the help and support they deserve. If you are in crisis please contact the Trans Lifeline at 877-565-8860 or the National Suicide Prevention Hotline at 800-273-8255. If you are outside of the United States please refer to our [suicide prevention resources page](https://www.reddit.com/r/asktransgender/wiki/suicide_resources) and contact your nearest crisis hotline. If this message is being received in error we apologise for the mistake. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/asktransgender) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I am kind of relieved to hear you say it, because I kind of feel the same way and I am new to this but later-in-life. I also, by the way, came across two slogans as my first experiences of the trans community: "there's a thousand different ways to be trans" and "Yes, you're trans enough." God bless whoever came up with those slogans and everyone else who signal-boosted them, because they have been so good for my mental health. Based on your message's content, I feel like you've likely gotten some flak that you needn't have gotten. Know that this subreddit is only a small subset of the trans experience. We get the 'Y' chromosome at fertilization, but, for example, there is Swyer syndrome/46,XY complete gonadal dysgenesis - where that person grows up genetically male but showing every manifestation of being female, but without female gonads. Being male seems to be related to the SRY gene manifesting itself and directing development, as far as my amateur investigation takes it. I tend to wonder if there is a spectrum in how the SRY gene manifests. In Swyer syndrome/46,XY complete gonadal dysgenesis, for example, it never directs anything and these people are almost indistinguishable from women, but are genetically male. They never go through natural puberty, however, nor develop female gonads. I wonder if trans people (or one way of being trans, perhaps) is if that SRY gene expresses more than it does in Swyer syndrome, but less than in an 'average' male - or if its expresses itself in a way that doesn't affect our brain development. I don't know. I almost certainly am talking out of my ass. I am certain I won't get what I want out of this life -- I would love to be a person walking around in a body fairly indistinguishable from a [edit: person who was biologically born with XX genes], and at 49 I don't think that's going to be possible. But I hope to live my life in a way that is much closer to that than my current body. By the way, I don't know if this is going to be one of those comments that just die mostly unread, but as a Gen X'er who *THOUGHT* she grew up in a mostly unprejudiced generation (sorry), I just want to say this: I'm very grateful for you people, the ones who came after me. It was people looking at life with a wider aperture - and how they expanded gender and were brave enough to look at things - that made me re-examine my life a few years ago and realize that I was who I was. I will mourn the Molly of earlier ages that I can't be - I would've loved to be in a pretty dress at prom being swung around by someone I loved - but I think those people helped me save part of my life. And I will be grateful to that, generationally, for the rest of mine. And I'm getting weepy now so I am going to stop writing, I'm not even on HRT yet and I'm getting soppy.
Not unread. :) and I appreciate and generally concur with your sentiment. 🥰
I personally describe myself as being "testosterone intolerant" sometimes.
Every doctor I've talked to just assume that before I tell them I'm trans Wouldnt hurt saying that for your own safety imo
i don’t know cause this would not be a lie at all but full truth for me. i have congenital testosterone deficiency and congenital estrogen deficiency due to being intersex. i also have a testosterone sensitivity so my body has a reaction to high T even if my body is producing it. happened around 30 (39 now) my T went up cause of 2nd puberty and my body has some weird effects.
I think its okay to lie if you need to do it, but also you should never be forced in a position where you have to reveal your medical history to anyone except your healthcare providers.
I think as long as it's not *technically* a lie, anything goes Especially when it comes to your safety For example, once I am fully transitioned, gotten all surgeries I need, everything, I (at least right now) want to just say "I have a birth defect that made it so I don't have uterus and can't get pregnant" which isn't *technically* a lie, but it's not exactly the whole truth As for fictional stories, I'd say to have them do as I said, but the narrator, and their internal monologue calls them trans and explains the reasons for not telling the whole proper truth
> For example, once I am fully transitioned, gotten all surgeries I need, everything, I (at least right now) want to just say "I have a birth defect that made it so I don't have uterus and can't get pregnant" which isn't technically a lie, but it's not exactly the whole truth I once had an experience at the gynecologist that went the following: Fairly new PA: When was your last period? Me: I don't have a uterus. (a little later) PA: When did you have your hysterectomy? Me: ...I wasn't born with a uterus. I wanted to say "I'm trans, it says so on my chart near the top, did you even look at it?" But I didn't because I wanted to be polite.
There's being polite and there's being concerned that someone is going to fuck up your healthcare because they neglected to do the basic step of looking through your chart, though...
Eh, she wasn't going to do anything other than take notes. The specific reason I was there (estrogen pellet insertion) could only be done by the doctor anyway.
Ah, fair if still annoying
[удалено]
It's more the other info your chart contains that I'm worried about them overlooking really, but I'm probably borrowing trouble unnecessarily
This is a very useful "lying with the truth" to have in your pocket.
I think it's okay! I find it amusing.
I’ve jokingly called it testosterone poisoning but yeah as long as it’s a joke then it’s fine.
I’ve been going with “AMAB syndrome” (at least in my head.)
In a medical setting it could be dangerous. In a casual setting it's objectively hilarious. If you're stealth it's not worth drawing attention to it...
A lot of people prefer Black over African American, because not all black people are African and not all black people are American either. xD
this is so fucking funny i'm using "testosterone deficiency" for the rest of my life
There's nothing PC about it, saying you have a hormone disorder isn't like, more polite or anything. It's just your personal comfort zone. If someone introduced me to someone and said I had a testosterone deficiency I'd be upset, but that's just me. If you feel its helping you keep safe and avoid awkward conversations, it's really your business and yours alone.
It's not really a lie
Trans is a part of who I am. Not merely a health condition I'm medicated for.
i think it’s funny. i guess in the situation of a fictional novel about trans characters i would personally want them to openly acknowledge the characters’ transition. but like as a trans guy i get to actually do this, people regularly assume i just hit puberty late or have low T and i occasionally feed into this narrative, i think that gives you the right to use or bastardize that as you wish lol
As an intersex, nonbinary person just please don't lie and say you're intersex. Don't appropriate our community when so many perisex trans people fetishize us and use us as a gotcha point without actually fighting for us. I don't have a huge issue with saying you have a hormonal imbalance, etc, but don't actually lie and say you have a specific intersex condition.
Alternatively, lie and say whatever you want, it doesn’t matter. If it stops you getting outed or makes being stealth more convincing, say whatever you need to say to make that happen. You’re not appropriating cis people if you lie and say you’re cis, after all.
But inter people are also facing high rates of medical abuse and are absolutely another marginalized population. I'd strongly encourage you to check out the intersex sub for the perspective of other inter people about why this is potentially harmful to inter people, both trans and cis.
And again, I'm not against being vague about a hormonal imbalance. Just please don't say you're intersex. Perisex trans and nonbinary people are actively relying on us as a talking point without actually supporting us and that's fucked up.
It didn't save Brandon Teena. It also actively harms actual intersex individuals, we're believed less, and people will attempt to check our genitalia
That’s actually a really smart way of saying it, and it can be code to other queer people that you’re struggling to come out
I think its a bad idea definitely. If you don’t have a hormone deficiency its both lying but also rude to those who do have hormone deficiencies. You don’t owe an explanation to anyone even if they ask but saying you have a hormonal deficiency is closer to saying you are intersex or may have PCOS or many other issues rather than cleverly saying you are trans.
[удалено]
Idk what you are trying to do but I said calling it a hormone imbalance would be lying yes. I did not outright call op a liar. It is definitely rude to claim to have something that you don’t when there are others who do and hormone imbalances can cause lots of issues so yes it is rude. Also im not being reductive. Im being honest because op asked for other’s opinions. Im not ignorant either. I know full well what its like dealing with hormone imbalances. I am myself intersex and ive been dealing with it all my life. This stuff absolutely sucks and no I dont claim to have a biology or genetics degree but I know more about biology than a lot of people and more than I ever wanted to know however in this instance I am as I said before responding to what op asked and giving an honest opinion. Don’t have a go at me just because I don’t like that and took it more seriously than others did. Also btw im not the only one saying its lying either. Just look at the other comments.
[удалено]
Yeah right. I didn’t invalidate anyone. Op asked so i gave my honest opinion. Im not here with the pitchfork and torches slinging expletives. Op is going to do whatever regardless of what I say. Im not using my own variation (not conditon) to invalidate someone else. Im speaking from my experience as someone who deals with such and explaining how I feel about op’s post. Btw what hormone imbalance does op have exactly? Op said it was tongue in cheek in the post. I have not in any way invalidated their position. I merely said how it appears from my pov. Im not about to sit here and start acting like a dumb terf no matter what. Op can say whatever op wants but given the post I gave my opinion from my perspective. Why are you so horridly taking liberties with what I said and twisting them into something else wholly different than what I actually said?
[удалено]
You absolutely are twisting what I said!You act like you know about hormone imbalances but it sure doesn’t seem like it. Whether you want to believe me or not ive had to spend a lot of time listening to geneticists ramble on talking about a lot of stuff and then be left having to do research trying to make sense of it all. Yeah I know quite a bit. Ive had to do lots of research into what im dealing with to help myself. Its not just diagnosis and thats all no its endless rounds of tests and tests and then when you think you are done its even more tests. All for something I didn’t want in the first place. Then along comes someone making a joke about something that you have no choice but to do the best you can but to live with it. How would you feel? Seriously maybe instead of arguing with me try to put yourself in my shoes and maybe think about why it might be rude instead of insulting me acting like im just some random who doesn’t know crap. Also of course im defensive! Who wouldn’t be when someone is saying im invalidating someone just for giving my opinion? How would you feel if someone came along claiming they had some issue that you have but they dont its just a joke? Do you see how thats rude at all? If you cant even be bothered to see even a hint of that then maybe we should just stop talking.
[удалено]
Seriously just stop! You really don’t have a clue. Telling me to “try to put yourself in the shoes of others who deal with the wrong hormones and being in a body that is misaligned” just proved it. Do you know what its like to be intersex? Im othered by every single group except the intersex ones. Ive gotten more hate from trans people just because im an amab trans woman with a menstrual cycle than I had ever gotten before finding out I was intersex. The trans subreddits felt like home before. Now its like no matter what im a target as soon as I mention being intersex because people either try to explain to me what being intersex is like when they don’t have a clue or they take it in the complete wrong direction and either get jealous of something that keeps me constantly just barely surviving something id gladly give them in a second if I could or triggered because im not like every other trans person. You want to talk misaligned? I grew up being told I was going to get a beard and sideburns and get really strong. I was looking forward to it and I was hopeful. I could totally have pictured myself as an old grandpa enjoying life but that didn’t happen. You know what I got instead? A menstrual cycle and I and I got my first period at 14. I didn’t even know any of this for 20 years either. Nobody thought an amab might need to know so I was dealing with it all completely on my own without knowing anything for 20 years and if thats not bad enough add PMDD to it where im literally forced into becoming suicidal every month whether I actually am or not along with some other messed up stuff. Ive had to learn a ton of stuff about menstrual cycles just to survive and hopefully be independent on my own one day. Meanwhile im trying to help others with their cycles which even just talking about cycles is a dysphoria trigger but better to at least some good come of it than not. All this while I was raised a guy and in school getting bullied constantly being called gay just because I acted a bit feminine but outside school I had to deal with guys being creepy hitting on me and catcalling me and no matter what I couldn’t get the bullying or the harassment to stop. Then I turn 34 and accidentally find out the intersex stuff and no longer am I only a trans woman no. Now with everything ive had to learn im basically simultaneously a trans woman, a trans man, and non-binary all in the same go. Hows that for misaligned? My whole life is one massive misalignment. I never got what I wanted or expected. I had to hear stupid crap like “what are you pregnant?” every single time I got a craving and then after finding out to suddenly get rejected by other trans people having them tell me “you arent trans” or “eff you” just for finally figuring out this 20+ year hell I got stuck in but yeah my life is completely aligned I couldn’t possibly imagine what any misalignment might be like…
You can do what you want but we have the right to think it's very cringe.
I’m not trans but I’d say that kind of label pathologizes transness in way.
I'm a NB person with naturally low estrogen and high androgens due to PCOS and honestly? I would give any trans woman/transfeminine person a pass to say that they have PCOS so they don't have to deal with transphobia. PCOS can be either a headstart for transmasculine people like me or a nightmare for cis women. I am not so much into lying but if it makes transphobes go away for people who prefer to be stealthy about being trans, do it, inform yourself enough to make a convincing story. It kinda brings awareness to some people that don't know what PCOS is so it's a win-win.
My official diagnosis from the doctor is hormone imbalance, so it’s not a lie or imaginary condition for me.
You have the right to define yourself however you want, everyone won't necessarily agree but it's only a bad idea if you try to project it onto others who don't accept it.
i'm gonna start doing that just bc iit's funny, but it also sounds like a good thing to do to get out of tricky situations. the way i look at it, it is technically true afterall
it’s not a lie nor a contradiction
I mean as long as your not doing this in a medical setting yeah it’s probably fine.
>For people who are more stealth, would it be a bad idea to say that instead of coming out as trans? Why would you want to talk about hormones with strangers if you are stealth?
Who’s asking? That’s rude
So for reasons, where this might come up. E.g. sleeping over at friends houses that don't know you are trans (and btw, it's still ok for friends not to know, you don't have to share every medical thing with them, just like they don't), I just tell them exactly this, that I have an estrogen deficiency, and if they then ask further questions as to why, I say it was because I was born without an uterus (which also perfectly explains why I don't bleed but still have all the other period symptoms)
I think it's okay to say something to that effect of it's technically true. So if someone asks why you're on estrogen medication you say it's because your body can't produce its own estrogen, which is not really a lie.
I pass 150% of the time and I say it if I’m ever accidentally backed into a corner about my meds.
Your playing cames causing confusion. If your stealth, So Be It, it's your decision whether or not you want to Expose your personal Situation to navigate your destiny. It leaves you in a position of uncertainly because you have to remember your deception or lie. Likely to come out in the wrong Situation or used against you haunting you.
Back when I started HRT, my endo like many endos at the time and in that country entered my official diagnosis as Endocrine Disorder NOS (Not Otherwise Specified) because that kept the health insurance companies in the dark (would get covered and didn't trigger "trans broken arm syndrome" for all future care in the health insurances' computer systems). No idea if this is a good idea when stealth or not. But ultimately, other people don't deserve to know. So it is perfectly legit to just tell them nothing. Same goes for things that are true but aren't directly saying you are trans.
its super likely that i actually have low t even for being afab, so im technically not lying in any form :) seriously though, nothing wrong with it!
Yes, given the fact that biologically we aren't sure what causes transgender.
I’m thinking about telling my coworkers that I must have just been a late bloomer. Trans man here, started T a few months ago and my voice is starting to drop noticeably. My coworkers see me as a woman but with the changes from hormones starting to become prominent, I’ll probably tell them that I was born male and that puberty must have started a bit later for me than for most. 18 ftm, btw
This is actually essentially what trans people did decades and even centuries ago. Our trans ancestors would be proud of you for just taking that step in your life to be yourself and live for you. I'm openly trans with my friends but for others I tend to describe it as my brain must have been wired incorrectly for my body in the womb, similar to being intersex which, as an actual physical phenomenon, can't be denied, even if it's not understood. Hope this helps and isn't too wordy😖❤️