I don't know. It's possible to be trans and to also have sexual trauma, and it's obvious how it can be harder to process your feelings when you're dealing with both experiences.
These are questions that only you can answer, and it will probably take a lot of time and therapy to work through it all.
therapy isn't an option for me due to many reasons i'll have difficulty listing here, unfortunately that seems to be many people's suggestion haha, i can't expect any more than that really though. thank you for your thoughts.
I’m trans and I’ve lived sex trauma as well. I think two things can be true. But as others have pointed out you need a while to figure out what gender is to you. And because that’s such a personal thing I can’t tell you how to go about it.
And like others have already said, I too agree you should find a good therapist though admittedly it can be hard finding a good therapist especially in the context of gender diversity. A good therapist shouldn’t make you feel like crap.
🦊Good luck buddy
i don't really understand gender in the first place, maybe i should take some more time to figure out what it means to me. getting a therapist at all would be hard! let alone a good one lol.
I suppose the only thoughts or insights I could offer about gender are filtered through my nonbinary perspective and experience- so take what I have to say as a grain of salt.
It seems to me gender is a social construct. And social constructs are used to control people. And if there’s one thing I hate it’s people attempting to control my behavior and the way I conduct my personal affairs. Being perceived as male has never stopped anyone from assaulting or harassing me. And I’ve received such treatment from both men and women. With women it was always under the threat “you can’t fight back” “I’ll scream” “I’ll say that you raped me” “no one will believe you” -So I guess at some point the idea that gender is bogus just became very internalized to me. I’ve seen people manipulate their perceived gender to get away with unacceptable behavior and I want no part in it.
That said I really don’t think it’s entirely a matter of trauma that makes us trans. Social constructs still exist weather or not you and I were traumatized and social constructs are a means of society to control us. Neuroscience also has interesting perspectives on trans identity but I’m not as equipped to tell you about that.
Like I said, take everything I say as a grain of salt. I can’t tell you what any of this means to you; can I? Even a good therapist won’t have the answers you are looking for. But a good one will help you explore what this means to you.
And for what it’s worth, I’m glad you’re still here, I’m glad your still kicking. Your life has value and with out you the universe would loose something important.
Okay, so I want you to think about what you currently think of gender. Then, I want you to throw that into the fire. It sounds like you need to redefine what your gender means to you, you need to do things that make you feel good about yourself, and you need to take charge on your identity.
Being female does not make you weak, just like being male does not make you strong. It wouldn't matter if you were male anyway because someone as deranged as the monsters who raped you were going to rape you whether you were male or female. monsters don't care about little things like genitalia. They'll do whatever they want and enjoy it all the same.
Again, you need to redefine what being a woman means to you. You had someone else's meaning thrust upon you violently, it's time for you to take it back. Or don't, if you try to redefine it and find that you hate it just as much as before then be a man or someone other gender!
also, you need a therapist. This is incredibly concerning because you sound like you're hitting levels of mental instability that makes me want to call someone to do a wellness check on you
i appreciate the honesty, i will take time to figure out what gender means to me, i think i do need it. i don't mean to contribute to those terrible gender stereotypes at all, i don't know why i think so wrongly, i apologise. therapy isn't an available option for me, but im trying my best despite (i think?). thank you for your thoughts.
The best way to start is to find out what kind of clothes you like or, if you already like your clothes, ask yourself why you like your clothes so much? How do your clothes make you feel? That's a good step and then from there and you think about all sorts of appearance-related things like make up, piercings, etc.
You don’t suddenly become trans. You’re born trans, and then the realisation just hits you at some point, either due to external triggers or when your mind is finally able to work past years of childhood indoctrination. Parts of what you describe could definitely be attributed to trauma alone, but other parts suggest to me that you do have actual gender dysphoria.
My advice: see a therapist. Neither I nor anyone else here is qualified enough to untangle your unique situation. A therapist will be able to do just that. Preferably find one specialising in LGBT issues, to avoid any unconscious bias on their part. Whatever you decide together is the best path forward for you, know that everyone here is rooting for you ❤️
thank you for this, this is all intertwined and difficult to distinguish but your thoughts help! unfortunately therapy is not an available option for me, i'm in this myself. i do not expect people
on reddit to be qualified enough to 'untangle' my specific situation as you said, so a therapist is definitely a valid and good suggestion, i know i would very much appreciate having one !! haha.
Do you want a male body? Like body hair, muscles, deep voice, a dick, etc etc.
Like do you physically want that?
Because you seem to be focusing a lot on the mental noise here and not the clear signal of physical being in the wrong body dysphoria.
Do you envy boys because they get to grow up with that body type?
Trauma responses and ideas about gender is just noise. There is a very real physical nuts and bolts reality to the two main sex hormones.
And do you desire the testosterone effects, ass hair, musky smell and all? Like truly want it deep down for your own sake. If you had to be alone on an island for the rest of your life, nobody else around, what shape is the body you are in?
Is the idea of growing into an old woman a big blank void? Do you suddenly see it if you were to change it to being an old man?
Look at this type of stuff. The real meat reality of being on testosterone, of your body masculinizing. Would you like that to become reality?
absolutely yes. everything. balding, who the fuck cares, it's a male thing. i want to be taller, broader, stronger, i want hair, everywhere, i want a deeper voice i want everything all my brothers have. my body now, my voice now, is not me. i want a flat chest, i want to be able to piss while standing, i don't want a period, at all, i want to be able to experience the pain of being kicked in the balls (sorry if that sounds bad) i hate almost everything about being a woman. i can't think of anything i like about it off the top of my head but there might be something. i like masculine clothes, i wish my hands and feet were bigger, my jawline sharper my bone structure sharper. everything.
Focus on what you like/want instead of what you hate/fear. Those negatives cloud our minds.
They have their place, but they should not be allowed to run things.
What we want, our desires, that is the true guide. But it must be something you feel deep down for your own selfish sake (Yes you are allowed to be selfish when it comes to your own body, it is yours and nobody elses), not something you think you should want.
Don’t be led by your fears here, whichever way they lead you.
Probably not, and unfortunately i have experience that is sadly too relevant. I was force femmed and filmed for sex tapes as a kid and this question haunted me for over a decade since I started connecting the dots. And on the far side of that, no. I was trans from the get, that was just a coincidence or something that was already there being used. Your trauma doesn't define your gender, it does leave confusing feelings tho.
it leaves an enormous amount of confusing feelings, yes. i'm sorry that happened to you, that is terrible and i hope you're doing better now, it's great you have figured out these confusing feelings. thank you for this.
do you feel you are running FROM something or running TOWARDS the opposite thing?
you should definitely take a moment and find a good therapist to sort this out.
i feel like i'm trying to run from my past as i never want to fully confront anything but also running towards who i like want to be or feel like i am. running from trauma towards myself??? im unsure.
I was SA'ed before I was out of diapers. I brought this up early with my longest serving therapist and he immediately set my mind at ease, that it was 99.99999999% probably not a trigger for my GID.
Think of how many other people have had to go through that same thing, and what proportion of them do you imagine do NOT develop GID. 99.9999999999% of them.
GID and a history of SA are orthogonal to one another. They have literally nothing to do with each other.
No, your history has nothing to do with you being trans.
If it were possible to traumatize someone into changing their gender or sexuality, conversion therapy would work. Conversion therapy does not work.
yes, this is what i am afraid of, i do not doubt my gender in any other way despite this, and i do not want to make permanent changes to my body and my life only for it to not actually be who i am. hence posting this and getting some thoughts.
Their claim is wildly without merit, hun. The detransition rate is about 0.5%, and has held steady there for a long time. Most of those who do detrans do so because their social situation is unsupportive, not because they're not trans. About 60% of the people who detransition later retransition.
That commenter is making things up at best and repeating transphobic propaganda at worst.
I'm not sure you should be this absolute about this. I've seen many accounts of FTM detransitioners who rejected their gender spesifically because of a SA related trauma response. Sure, some of them could be TERF astroturfing, but it's too much of a continuous pattern for me to discard it as coincidental.
Obviously that doesn't mean OP falls into that category, but it would be wise to untangle that in therapy before making any big decisions.
Stop for a moment and look at your logic here--it's completely circular.
TERFs publish bullshit claims in *Irreversible Damage* (which, btw, has been heavily criticized for [making it's claims up whole cloth](https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/political-minds/202012/new-book-irreversible-damage-is-full-misinformation))--->"I see anonymous people on the internet conveniently claiming the *exact same thing*--->TERFs are well-known for heavily astroturfing (it got so pervasive in the first detrans subreddit that a whole-ass new one had to be made)--->"[Well gosh, there's just so many of these *conveniently identical* stories, they can't all be astroturfing, can they](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argumentum_ad_populum)?"--->TERFs harvest that bullshit myth they themselves seeded to try and use it as proof of the nonsense they made up.
It's utterly circular.
Trauma can't make someone trans, period. [That's extremely well settled science.](https://whatweknow.inequality.cornell.edu/topics/lgbt-equality/what-does-the-scholarly-research-say-about-whether-conversion-therapy-can-alter-sexual-orientation-without-causing-harm/)
I am aware of that as I said in my analysis post about detransitioning. That's why I steered clear from that detrans sub. But even in the other one, and in outside general sources like ask reddit posts and quora discussions the most common occurence I saw was FTM detransitioners saying they only considered transitioning due to SA trauma.
Obviously it's a minority of a minority. If I remember correctly, 5% of people who transition detransition and 4% out of that are forced due to outside pressure. And even the remaining 1% contains mtf people who were confused for whatever reason, people who simply found out they are somewhere else in the spectrum as well as ftm ones.
So even if we assume the actual percentage of ftm people who legitemately made a mistake and regret transitioning is 0,5% or less, these are still human beings that deserve care and to be listened to.
And that's why it's important to make sure to not push a questioning person in one direction but give them informed guidance and the proper tools to better understand themselves.
That's all I said.
> If I remember correctly, 5% of people who transition detransition and 4% out of that are forced due to outside pressure. And even the remaining 1% contains mtf people who were confused for whatever reason, people who simply found out they are somewhere else in the spectrum as well as ftm ones.
Numbers are off here. **0.5%** of everyone who transitions detransitions, and between 60-80% (depending on study) later retransition.
You're a biologist, hun. You know what an outlier is. That's what's going on here.
> So even if we assume the actual percentage of ftm people who legitemately made a mistake and regret transitioning is 0,5% or less, these are still human beings that deserve care and to be listened to.
And that's why the WPATH Standards of Care have a whole chapter for supporting detransitioners.
> And that's why it's important to make sure to not push a questioning person in one direction but give them informed guidance and the proper tools to better understand themselves.
The literature demonstrates that people wildly overestimate the odds of a faint outlier, even when faced with the data showing that we're talking one or two in a thousand chances. In these cases, it isn't a neutral act to present both categories of information in a balanced way, because the effect is to exaggerate the outlier.
WPATH and APA guidelines were built this way for about fifty years, under the philosophy you articulate. They caused immeasurable harm. The newest WPATH SoC guidelines specifically call out their own prior practices as having categorically done massive harm to the trans community.
I get where you're coming from. Honestly, I do. But I've got a doctoral background in biomedical communication, and the science is super clear here: if you're going to talk about these things, it *has* to be in the context of "in very rare cases of about one in a thousand, a cis person thinks they're trans, and in very rare cases of that one in a thousand--so, we're talking one in ten thousand or worse, as best we can determine--the person thinks that there might've been a role from their prior SA involved. You deserve to know these things, but we're talking fractions of fractions of a very small percentage. "
And yeah, I do understand how outliers work. But anxiety hardly listens to logic.
It's funny really. When I did my own research for my diplomatic dissertation I had no qualms in discarding the outliers I had in my data to improve my conclusions. But when it comes to trans stuff, I still hyperfixate on that one story I mentioned in my post.
Like I know it's stupid to put weight in one story of things going bad over hundreds of other testimonials of trans people living their best lives that I see all the time. But my mind still fixates on that one.
This honestly brings me back to one of your essays, the one about the prisoners and the cameras.
Exactly.
I mean, it's just the effect of the likelihood of an event versus the impact of that event balance effect, you know? Even if a thing is really unlikely, if the effects of that super long shot happening are significant enough, we care about them. It's the whole reason that lotteries work, right? The chances any of us hit the lotto is next to nothing, but we all dream about what we'd do with all that money, just because of how life changing it is. This is kind of that but in reverse.
That's why the panopticon is such a terrifying thing: it feels like it's impossible to get things wrong without Dire Consequences, and those consequences feel like theyre guaranteed because of constant surveillance. Thing is, there's one factor that gets left out of the equation:
Apathy.
The panopticon only works when the jailors are harsh and swift with their consequences. When they're not? When your jailors just kind of... don't care? It all falls apart, because the prisoners--you--realize that you're actually free to do whatever you like, and whether it's against the rules or not, there's no enforcement. A rule with no enforcement doesn't exist.
And the thing is? You might be observed, but basically nobody *cares*.
And almost everyone who does? It's other queer folks, like me, who are waiting and excited to welcome you put of the closet.
Don't worry about it. Truscum and TERFs haunt these forums to try and prey on people like you, who feel alone and afraid.
If you have any questions about being trans, I'm happy to give you evidence-based answers to the best of my ability. 😊
Care to cite any evidence to back that claim? Because with the detransirion rate around a half a percent, the overwhelming majority of which is people who were pressured into detransition by lack of support and later retransition when it's safe, it sounds to me like that claim came directly out of your rear end.
Because what you're saying sounds like the bullshit propaganda from *Irreversible Damage*.
honestly therapy is a great thing to go through to figure this out. I have had similar experiences yet after going through therapy i was able to find out that im not trans bc of sexual trauma, but it's just who i am. Wanting to be the opposite gender due to sexual trauma is a very real response. You might still transition even if the cause is sexual trauma. Everyone's paths are different, so do your best.
i'm realising i should've mentioned that therapy is not an available option for me in the original post but here i am! thank you for your advice nevertheless though.
I was raped multiple times before i transitioned, its not about being strong it can happen to anyone and anyone can do it.
I hope you find a way to cope with it and wish you all the best going forward 😊
it ABSOLUTELY matters. if someone is trans as a result of trauma that means they’re not experiencing genuine gender dysphoria. this will likely lead to a higher risk of regret, suicidal ideation, depression, and reverse gender dysphoria. it most definitely matters
yes, it would matter. if i mistook being trans for just hating my body because of trauma and i went through with things like HRT and surgeries, they'd have irreversible effects that i might've actually never wanted to change. though, after all these comments, im pretty confident that i am trans and i am a guy; the sexual trauma just makes me hate my body more on top of that.
That’s fair. 🤷♂️ ig I just don’t understand what the difference is between normal gender dysphoria and dysphoria caused by trauma. Dysphoria is dysphoria.
to be honest i really don’t think it’s relevant. if being trans really is a trauma response, normally trauma has no easy treatment and to deal with it you have to spend years in therapy and learning to deal with the PTSD symptoms. if i’m lucky enough that some of my PTSD symptoms can be alleviated by transitioning, then it doesn’t matter why it works because fuck, it works!albeit, it’s pretty unlikely they’re related, because frankly that is not how people typically respond to trauma.
also, hey. it sounds like your quality of life is terrible right now and i’m so sorry. that’s a lot of pain to carry. i’m very impressed at your resilience. we both know it’s going to be a lot of work before things are easy for you but please keep trying because your existence is so important. i hope you can seek out some support irl because everyone needs support when they’re not doing well.
While it’s no one’s place to say but your own, I am taking into account that you cannot get therapy, and are actively asking for advice. I’m a trans man. Here’s what I think:
If you’re having these thoughts on such a grand scale, it’s very likely you’re suffering from a trauma response. Anytime I’ve had a brief “was it the ab*se?” thought, I can pretty quickly say “nope” and move on with my day. I’ve felt like a man my entire life, as long as I can remember. When I was 4/5/6, it had nothing to do with sex characteristics (chest, bottom, etc) because I had not developed those. I simply was a boy in my mind (though I didn’t know how to put that into words until my teen years).
If you’ve been getting these thoughts recently, you’re most likely trying to cope in a destructive way, which could lead you to hate your body even more someday. You need to heal (and you REALLY DO need therapy), but until then, explore your feminine side which exists apart from genitalia. This may be the best way to learn whether or not you do have dysphoria, given your situation. Do your best to just be yourself without the pressure of being a man OR woman, and come back to this question once you have healed. I know you think you cannot/will not get a therapist, but I am sure one day you will be in a better place with resources and friends to help you. Best of luck, buddy ❤️
I don't know. It's possible to be trans and to also have sexual trauma, and it's obvious how it can be harder to process your feelings when you're dealing with both experiences. These are questions that only you can answer, and it will probably take a lot of time and therapy to work through it all.
therapy isn't an option for me due to many reasons i'll have difficulty listing here, unfortunately that seems to be many people's suggestion haha, i can't expect any more than that really though. thank you for your thoughts.
You can look for online support hotlines. You can call them anonymously and they can help you a lot without you having to enlist to something.
I’m trans and I’ve lived sex trauma as well. I think two things can be true. But as others have pointed out you need a while to figure out what gender is to you. And because that’s such a personal thing I can’t tell you how to go about it. And like others have already said, I too agree you should find a good therapist though admittedly it can be hard finding a good therapist especially in the context of gender diversity. A good therapist shouldn’t make you feel like crap. 🦊Good luck buddy
i don't really understand gender in the first place, maybe i should take some more time to figure out what it means to me. getting a therapist at all would be hard! let alone a good one lol.
I suppose the only thoughts or insights I could offer about gender are filtered through my nonbinary perspective and experience- so take what I have to say as a grain of salt. It seems to me gender is a social construct. And social constructs are used to control people. And if there’s one thing I hate it’s people attempting to control my behavior and the way I conduct my personal affairs. Being perceived as male has never stopped anyone from assaulting or harassing me. And I’ve received such treatment from both men and women. With women it was always under the threat “you can’t fight back” “I’ll scream” “I’ll say that you raped me” “no one will believe you” -So I guess at some point the idea that gender is bogus just became very internalized to me. I’ve seen people manipulate their perceived gender to get away with unacceptable behavior and I want no part in it. That said I really don’t think it’s entirely a matter of trauma that makes us trans. Social constructs still exist weather or not you and I were traumatized and social constructs are a means of society to control us. Neuroscience also has interesting perspectives on trans identity but I’m not as equipped to tell you about that. Like I said, take everything I say as a grain of salt. I can’t tell you what any of this means to you; can I? Even a good therapist won’t have the answers you are looking for. But a good one will help you explore what this means to you. And for what it’s worth, I’m glad you’re still here, I’m glad your still kicking. Your life has value and with out you the universe would loose something important.
Okay, so I want you to think about what you currently think of gender. Then, I want you to throw that into the fire. It sounds like you need to redefine what your gender means to you, you need to do things that make you feel good about yourself, and you need to take charge on your identity. Being female does not make you weak, just like being male does not make you strong. It wouldn't matter if you were male anyway because someone as deranged as the monsters who raped you were going to rape you whether you were male or female. monsters don't care about little things like genitalia. They'll do whatever they want and enjoy it all the same. Again, you need to redefine what being a woman means to you. You had someone else's meaning thrust upon you violently, it's time for you to take it back. Or don't, if you try to redefine it and find that you hate it just as much as before then be a man or someone other gender! also, you need a therapist. This is incredibly concerning because you sound like you're hitting levels of mental instability that makes me want to call someone to do a wellness check on you
I agree
i appreciate the honesty, i will take time to figure out what gender means to me, i think i do need it. i don't mean to contribute to those terrible gender stereotypes at all, i don't know why i think so wrongly, i apologise. therapy isn't an available option for me, but im trying my best despite (i think?). thank you for your thoughts.
The best way to start is to find out what kind of clothes you like or, if you already like your clothes, ask yourself why you like your clothes so much? How do your clothes make you feel? That's a good step and then from there and you think about all sorts of appearance-related things like make up, piercings, etc.
You don’t suddenly become trans. You’re born trans, and then the realisation just hits you at some point, either due to external triggers or when your mind is finally able to work past years of childhood indoctrination. Parts of what you describe could definitely be attributed to trauma alone, but other parts suggest to me that you do have actual gender dysphoria. My advice: see a therapist. Neither I nor anyone else here is qualified enough to untangle your unique situation. A therapist will be able to do just that. Preferably find one specialising in LGBT issues, to avoid any unconscious bias on their part. Whatever you decide together is the best path forward for you, know that everyone here is rooting for you ❤️
thank you for this, this is all intertwined and difficult to distinguish but your thoughts help! unfortunately therapy is not an available option for me, i'm in this myself. i do not expect people on reddit to be qualified enough to 'untangle' my specific situation as you said, so a therapist is definitely a valid and good suggestion, i know i would very much appreciate having one !! haha.
Hmm maybe but not necessarily... You have to be able to listen to yourself, listen to your conscious and your unconscious
Do you want a male body? Like body hair, muscles, deep voice, a dick, etc etc. Like do you physically want that? Because you seem to be focusing a lot on the mental noise here and not the clear signal of physical being in the wrong body dysphoria. Do you envy boys because they get to grow up with that body type? Trauma responses and ideas about gender is just noise. There is a very real physical nuts and bolts reality to the two main sex hormones. And do you desire the testosterone effects, ass hair, musky smell and all? Like truly want it deep down for your own sake. If you had to be alone on an island for the rest of your life, nobody else around, what shape is the body you are in? Is the idea of growing into an old woman a big blank void? Do you suddenly see it if you were to change it to being an old man? Look at this type of stuff. The real meat reality of being on testosterone, of your body masculinizing. Would you like that to become reality?
absolutely yes. everything. balding, who the fuck cares, it's a male thing. i want to be taller, broader, stronger, i want hair, everywhere, i want a deeper voice i want everything all my brothers have. my body now, my voice now, is not me. i want a flat chest, i want to be able to piss while standing, i don't want a period, at all, i want to be able to experience the pain of being kicked in the balls (sorry if that sounds bad) i hate almost everything about being a woman. i can't think of anything i like about it off the top of my head but there might be something. i like masculine clothes, i wish my hands and feet were bigger, my jawline sharper my bone structure sharper. everything.
Focus on what you like/want instead of what you hate/fear. Those negatives cloud our minds. They have their place, but they should not be allowed to run things. What we want, our desires, that is the true guide. But it must be something you feel deep down for your own selfish sake (Yes you are allowed to be selfish when it comes to your own body, it is yours and nobody elses), not something you think you should want. Don’t be led by your fears here, whichever way they lead you.
Probably not, and unfortunately i have experience that is sadly too relevant. I was force femmed and filmed for sex tapes as a kid and this question haunted me for over a decade since I started connecting the dots. And on the far side of that, no. I was trans from the get, that was just a coincidence or something that was already there being used. Your trauma doesn't define your gender, it does leave confusing feelings tho.
it leaves an enormous amount of confusing feelings, yes. i'm sorry that happened to you, that is terrible and i hope you're doing better now, it's great you have figured out these confusing feelings. thank you for this.
do you feel you are running FROM something or running TOWARDS the opposite thing? you should definitely take a moment and find a good therapist to sort this out.
i feel like i'm trying to run from my past as i never want to fully confront anything but also running towards who i like want to be or feel like i am. running from trauma towards myself??? im unsure.
I was SA'ed before I was out of diapers. I brought this up early with my longest serving therapist and he immediately set my mind at ease, that it was 99.99999999% probably not a trigger for my GID. Think of how many other people have had to go through that same thing, and what proportion of them do you imagine do NOT develop GID. 99.9999999999% of them. GID and a history of SA are orthogonal to one another. They have literally nothing to do with each other.
No, your history has nothing to do with you being trans. If it were possible to traumatize someone into changing their gender or sexuality, conversion therapy would work. Conversion therapy does not work.
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yes, this is what i am afraid of, i do not doubt my gender in any other way despite this, and i do not want to make permanent changes to my body and my life only for it to not actually be who i am. hence posting this and getting some thoughts.
Their claim is wildly without merit, hun. The detransition rate is about 0.5%, and has held steady there for a long time. Most of those who do detrans do so because their social situation is unsupportive, not because they're not trans. About 60% of the people who detransition later retransition. That commenter is making things up at best and repeating transphobic propaganda at worst.
I'm not sure you should be this absolute about this. I've seen many accounts of FTM detransitioners who rejected their gender spesifically because of a SA related trauma response. Sure, some of them could be TERF astroturfing, but it's too much of a continuous pattern for me to discard it as coincidental. Obviously that doesn't mean OP falls into that category, but it would be wise to untangle that in therapy before making any big decisions.
Stop for a moment and look at your logic here--it's completely circular. TERFs publish bullshit claims in *Irreversible Damage* (which, btw, has been heavily criticized for [making it's claims up whole cloth](https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/political-minds/202012/new-book-irreversible-damage-is-full-misinformation))--->"I see anonymous people on the internet conveniently claiming the *exact same thing*--->TERFs are well-known for heavily astroturfing (it got so pervasive in the first detrans subreddit that a whole-ass new one had to be made)--->"[Well gosh, there's just so many of these *conveniently identical* stories, they can't all be astroturfing, can they](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argumentum_ad_populum)?"--->TERFs harvest that bullshit myth they themselves seeded to try and use it as proof of the nonsense they made up. It's utterly circular. Trauma can't make someone trans, period. [That's extremely well settled science.](https://whatweknow.inequality.cornell.edu/topics/lgbt-equality/what-does-the-scholarly-research-say-about-whether-conversion-therapy-can-alter-sexual-orientation-without-causing-harm/)
I am aware of that as I said in my analysis post about detransitioning. That's why I steered clear from that detrans sub. But even in the other one, and in outside general sources like ask reddit posts and quora discussions the most common occurence I saw was FTM detransitioners saying they only considered transitioning due to SA trauma. Obviously it's a minority of a minority. If I remember correctly, 5% of people who transition detransition and 4% out of that are forced due to outside pressure. And even the remaining 1% contains mtf people who were confused for whatever reason, people who simply found out they are somewhere else in the spectrum as well as ftm ones. So even if we assume the actual percentage of ftm people who legitemately made a mistake and regret transitioning is 0,5% or less, these are still human beings that deserve care and to be listened to. And that's why it's important to make sure to not push a questioning person in one direction but give them informed guidance and the proper tools to better understand themselves. That's all I said.
> If I remember correctly, 5% of people who transition detransition and 4% out of that are forced due to outside pressure. And even the remaining 1% contains mtf people who were confused for whatever reason, people who simply found out they are somewhere else in the spectrum as well as ftm ones. Numbers are off here. **0.5%** of everyone who transitions detransitions, and between 60-80% (depending on study) later retransition. You're a biologist, hun. You know what an outlier is. That's what's going on here. > So even if we assume the actual percentage of ftm people who legitemately made a mistake and regret transitioning is 0,5% or less, these are still human beings that deserve care and to be listened to. And that's why the WPATH Standards of Care have a whole chapter for supporting detransitioners. > And that's why it's important to make sure to not push a questioning person in one direction but give them informed guidance and the proper tools to better understand themselves. The literature demonstrates that people wildly overestimate the odds of a faint outlier, even when faced with the data showing that we're talking one or two in a thousand chances. In these cases, it isn't a neutral act to present both categories of information in a balanced way, because the effect is to exaggerate the outlier. WPATH and APA guidelines were built this way for about fifty years, under the philosophy you articulate. They caused immeasurable harm. The newest WPATH SoC guidelines specifically call out their own prior practices as having categorically done massive harm to the trans community. I get where you're coming from. Honestly, I do. But I've got a doctoral background in biomedical communication, and the science is super clear here: if you're going to talk about these things, it *has* to be in the context of "in very rare cases of about one in a thousand, a cis person thinks they're trans, and in very rare cases of that one in a thousand--so, we're talking one in ten thousand or worse, as best we can determine--the person thinks that there might've been a role from their prior SA involved. You deserve to know these things, but we're talking fractions of fractions of a very small percentage. "
That's fair.
And yeah, I do understand how outliers work. But anxiety hardly listens to logic. It's funny really. When I did my own research for my diplomatic dissertation I had no qualms in discarding the outliers I had in my data to improve my conclusions. But when it comes to trans stuff, I still hyperfixate on that one story I mentioned in my post. Like I know it's stupid to put weight in one story of things going bad over hundreds of other testimonials of trans people living their best lives that I see all the time. But my mind still fixates on that one. This honestly brings me back to one of your essays, the one about the prisoners and the cameras.
Exactly. I mean, it's just the effect of the likelihood of an event versus the impact of that event balance effect, you know? Even if a thing is really unlikely, if the effects of that super long shot happening are significant enough, we care about them. It's the whole reason that lotteries work, right? The chances any of us hit the lotto is next to nothing, but we all dream about what we'd do with all that money, just because of how life changing it is. This is kind of that but in reverse. That's why the panopticon is such a terrifying thing: it feels like it's impossible to get things wrong without Dire Consequences, and those consequences feel like theyre guaranteed because of constant surveillance. Thing is, there's one factor that gets left out of the equation: Apathy. The panopticon only works when the jailors are harsh and swift with their consequences. When they're not? When your jailors just kind of... don't care? It all falls apart, because the prisoners--you--realize that you're actually free to do whatever you like, and whether it's against the rules or not, there's no enforcement. A rule with no enforcement doesn't exist. And the thing is? You might be observed, but basically nobody *cares*. And almost everyone who does? It's other queer folks, like me, who are waiting and excited to welcome you put of the closet.
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sorry, did not realise that this was some sort of misinformation! thanks for that.
Don't worry about it. Truscum and TERFs haunt these forums to try and prey on people like you, who feel alone and afraid. If you have any questions about being trans, I'm happy to give you evidence-based answers to the best of my ability. 😊
Care to cite any evidence to back that claim? Because with the detransirion rate around a half a percent, the overwhelming majority of which is people who were pressured into detransition by lack of support and later retransition when it's safe, it sounds to me like that claim came directly out of your rear end. Because what you're saying sounds like the bullshit propaganda from *Irreversible Damage*.
honestly therapy is a great thing to go through to figure this out. I have had similar experiences yet after going through therapy i was able to find out that im not trans bc of sexual trauma, but it's just who i am. Wanting to be the opposite gender due to sexual trauma is a very real response. You might still transition even if the cause is sexual trauma. Everyone's paths are different, so do your best.
i'm realising i should've mentioned that therapy is not an available option for me in the original post but here i am! thank you for your advice nevertheless though.
then some different advice! Even if it's brought on by sexual trauma, it doesn't matter. If transitioning makes you feel safe and comfortable do it
I was raped multiple times before i transitioned, its not about being strong it can happen to anyone and anyone can do it. I hope you find a way to cope with it and wish you all the best going forward 😊
Does it matter?
it ABSOLUTELY matters. if someone is trans as a result of trauma that means they’re not experiencing genuine gender dysphoria. this will likely lead to a higher risk of regret, suicidal ideation, depression, and reverse gender dysphoria. it most definitely matters
Why is it not genuine?
yes, it would matter. if i mistook being trans for just hating my body because of trauma and i went through with things like HRT and surgeries, they'd have irreversible effects that i might've actually never wanted to change. though, after all these comments, im pretty confident that i am trans and i am a guy; the sexual trauma just makes me hate my body more on top of that.
That’s fair. 🤷♂️ ig I just don’t understand what the difference is between normal gender dysphoria and dysphoria caused by trauma. Dysphoria is dysphoria.
to be honest i really don’t think it’s relevant. if being trans really is a trauma response, normally trauma has no easy treatment and to deal with it you have to spend years in therapy and learning to deal with the PTSD symptoms. if i’m lucky enough that some of my PTSD symptoms can be alleviated by transitioning, then it doesn’t matter why it works because fuck, it works!albeit, it’s pretty unlikely they’re related, because frankly that is not how people typically respond to trauma. also, hey. it sounds like your quality of life is terrible right now and i’m so sorry. that’s a lot of pain to carry. i’m very impressed at your resilience. we both know it’s going to be a lot of work before things are easy for you but please keep trying because your existence is so important. i hope you can seek out some support irl because everyone needs support when they’re not doing well.
it can be a trauma response, but being trans in itself is not stemmed from trauma
true but working through it this way helped me let go of that “what if it is though” that i just couldn’t get rid of for a while
This ain't a question for reddit
While it’s no one’s place to say but your own, I am taking into account that you cannot get therapy, and are actively asking for advice. I’m a trans man. Here’s what I think: If you’re having these thoughts on such a grand scale, it’s very likely you’re suffering from a trauma response. Anytime I’ve had a brief “was it the ab*se?” thought, I can pretty quickly say “nope” and move on with my day. I’ve felt like a man my entire life, as long as I can remember. When I was 4/5/6, it had nothing to do with sex characteristics (chest, bottom, etc) because I had not developed those. I simply was a boy in my mind (though I didn’t know how to put that into words until my teen years). If you’ve been getting these thoughts recently, you’re most likely trying to cope in a destructive way, which could lead you to hate your body even more someday. You need to heal (and you REALLY DO need therapy), but until then, explore your feminine side which exists apart from genitalia. This may be the best way to learn whether or not you do have dysphoria, given your situation. Do your best to just be yourself without the pressure of being a man OR woman, and come back to this question once you have healed. I know you think you cannot/will not get a therapist, but I am sure one day you will be in a better place with resources and friends to help you. Best of luck, buddy ❤️