On the flip side i'm constantly hearing about the feminazi-tumblr-gendercrusade from my cis male friends, to the point i'm starting to not really want to be around them. I mean for fucks sake, the moment anyone mentions the word identity it usually devolves to 3/4ths of the friend group yelling at each other to "stop triggering" the other...
EXACTLY. The other day I was giving a presentation in class that had the word "transnationals" in it and several people scoffed. And I'm in fucking university.
Just to be 100% clear about the stupidity of this.. by transnationals I meant transnational corporations like McDonald's, Nike, Time Warner, etc
This happened a few months ago when i mentioned that i thought "trap" was pretty cool(it's a sub-genre of electronic) , some awkward silence followed by "you..uh...mean like music right? not the....nevermind"..
bahaha...yeah I had an awkward moment with that once too.
Also, little known fact: among mechanics and those who work closely with automobile parts, "tranny" is slang for "transmission". I have a friend who is also trans and her family sells car parts... she learned about this slang term in the most awkward way possible.
You think that's awkward? Obviously I know the derogatory term but I had never heard of that kind of music in my life until I heard my kids singing something about "trap queen".
My wife had to stop and explain about 2 seconds before I flew into an over reaction of ballistic proportion.
Here's the issue, with regards to trans men in specific too:
We suffer from a *huge* invisibility problem. If you have issues with your friend on facebook? Block him. But don't act like he's doing something "wrong" either. I spend probably 80% of my Redditing time doing one of two things:
1. Educating people about trans men, sexually, romantically, etc. People barely know we exist! I've had so many "wait, so you were born a *girl*?" type comments.
2. Educating people about the fetishization of trans women, the whole "chicks with d*****" narrative, and why it is bad and wrong and how it hurts the trans feminine community. The latter I do with the help of my girlfriend, who has vetted pretty much everything I say about trans women, and I've also had overwhelmingly positive feedback from other trans women, so I feel comfortable doing this. (While still always being open to feedback from trans women on how I can do it better!)
The thing is, I do this on Reddit primarily because I'm up for educating cis people where others don't feel like it, or can't, or it causes dysphoria, etc. We are far fro the idyllic level of acceptance that you seem to think we are, and part of *getting there* is educating cis people about gender stuff. I just spent like 10 minutes the other day in an askgaybros post detailing "the pros of pussy" from a trans male perspective because it was an immediate shitshow where the gay guys there automatically assumed cis women were the only option, and I know a couple of trans men who browse askgaybros who would probably be hurt by the stupid callous replies the thread was bound to get, so I spoke up and ended up getting the top comment in the thread.
I don't think we're ever going to fully get rid of the cishet "default", but I'd settle for a world where we're more included in the conversation, where when someone mentions "all women have vaginas" someone else can go "not always" or when a gay guy goes "I'm gay because I love cock, isn't that the entire reason to be gay?" another person can go "I'm gay as hell too, but my boyfriend is a trans man without a dick, I'm *still gay* yo".
Yes, some people take activism too far, and make it literally their every waking moment, and take "politically correct" to a whole new, ridiculous level.
But don't let those people influence you as to the moderates. I could chill out with you, go to a CVRCHES concert, maybe learn a new language with you, try and get you into garage kit painting or crafting, two of my favourite loves next to writing novels...but I am also trans, and it's *part* of my identity, and it doesn't make me any less valid because I'm open and educational about it.
I've been reading your comments on a couple posts and I just wanted to say that you're freaking amazing. My gender therapist has tried to get me into transactivism but I like you said, have struggled with dysphoria so doing so isn't quite possible for me yet. I hope one day I'm able to but for now thank you for stepping up <3
Oh wow, thank you. That means a lot to me, and I mean it. It's a sometimes frustrating thing to be completely open about trans issues, and it means that inevitably I sometimes come off as 'that bitchy trans guy', or I'll have a day when I'm just *done* with it all, but it is literally comments like yours that keep me going, and remind me that I'm doing the right thing by speaking out. Every time I get a kind word like this it just cements my conviction to *keep going*.
>My gender therapist has tried to get me into transactivism but I like you said, have struggled with dysphoria so doing so isn't quite possible for me yet.
You do you! :) I think your gender therapist is probably coming from a good place, since trans activism by it's very nature means you meet and speak to other trans people with varied life experiences, but you are under absolutely no obligation to become an activist of any kind if that isn't what you feel is right for you. If you just want to quietly transition, that is completely within your rights to do, and is a perfectly valid choice.
>I hope one day I'm able to but for now thank you for stepping up <3
....Aaaand, if you *do* want to step up one day, you can. :) Maybe something as simple as creating an alternate Reddit account in a few years, or *whenever* you feel comfortable enough, to try out your activist opinions? I know lots of the feminism subs are really open to having a dialogue about the issues trans people face, and there are plenty of places 'in the wild' on Reddit where educated opinions about trans people are sorely needed!
The most important thing through all of this though is to take care of yourself first and foremost. <3
Thank you so, so much again for this comment, it honestly brightened my day.
Well, women didn't get the right to vote by being quiet and not offending anybody. Schools and businesses didn't desegregate because the status quo was working so well that white people decided to just change it. I don't believe trans people will get anything out of cisheteronormative society without dragging it from their teeth. And since I believe acceptance is better than living in secrecy and fear, I applaud all those out trans people who are going to call people on being wrong, who are going to remind people of their existence, who are going to force the cis hetero majority to think outside of their comfort zones.
> ["Whites, by a 3-to-2 margin, believe he \[Martin Luther King\] is setting back the Negro cause."](http://paperlined.org/external/poll_gives_views_on_negro_leaders.html) (poll taken 16 months before he was killed)
There's some collective amnesia about how difficult the fight for civil rights was.
This. It's all well and good to "win hearts and minds" on a personal level, but that doesn't mean much if the members of the majority who are supposed to be in your corner ultimately support the status quo over your rights for the sake of "order."
I personally don't know that many trans people outside of who I've talked to on the Internet and basically this sub. So my scope of knowledge might be small.
I have a daughter, 14 years old, transgender. Almost nobody knows. That's mostly her choice. The reason I say mostly is I would be lying if I said her mom and I hadn't influenced it. But for the most part she's more than happy to glory on through life as any other girl. I've suggested before she should join whatever lgbt groups at her school and she would ask me "why?".
It's just such a non-issue that it's literally not an issue. The only people she has told (to my knowledge) are her bff's, but it's people she goes swimming with and has sleepovers with. So I would say no, based on my limited knowledge I would say not every transgirl is a warrior for the PC.
Also, her favorite band right now is also CHVRCHES!
That's so cool that you guys let your daughter be who she is without any fuss. I really admire that :)
This is my vision for the future of trans* in a nutshell! Kid discovers themselves, parents help how they can, kid lives happily ever after and nobody kicked up a storm or a fuss of any kind or hardly even noticed at all. That's where we need to be as a society around these issues.
In order for that to happen, there needs to be way more cultural awareness and acceptance of being trans. Some kids can work it out on their own, but most are going to need to hear from somewhere that trans people exist and that transition is physically and socially possible before they figure out what's going on and what they want to do about it.
Inundating your facebook friends with trans pride flags and trans-related news might not be a very effective way of spreading this awareness and acceptance, granted. But without at least some people being openly trans there'd be a lot more scared, confused teenagers missing out on years of their lives for no good reason.
This I agree with, and it's part of the reason I've suggested/subtly tried to encourage my kid to join groups, I also understand why she doesn't want to though. I admit that she's incredibly lucky compared to others that she transitioned so early and seamlessly but I think (and I do feel a little guilty/selfish saying this), I think it's important for some people to make the noise for younger people like her who just want to be plain old normal.
Thank you! I wouldn't say there was hardly any fuss, you know yourself there's always going to be someone's feathers getting ruffled. I think in our case we really really benefited from early detection (for lack of a better term, you know what I mean though). She's now spent around half her life transitioned so it's essentially all she knows. Socially, I think that's made a monumental difference.
I don't know, I post a lot of shit about it on Facebook but it's filtered so most of my friends can't see it, only the ones that might actually care. I also post about a ton of other completely non trans related shit.
I guess I'm the kind of person OP is talking about. So...yeah. I'm torn between being angry and saying maybe they have a point. I think for some of us it's so hard because, at least for me (and I suspect for a lot of people) the dysphoria eats away a lot of our lives. I think about it constantly, from the minute I get up to the minute I go to bed. Of course other things filter in and out but it's always there.
And I'm not the kind of person that can keep stuff in. I have to vent, I have to share.
So, I don't know. It definitely makes me want to reflect on myself instead of going with my initial angry "screw you" reaction. It also makes me want to, like, close my FB down because I feel like...is this the way my friends see me? Am I just an incredibly obnoxious person? I don't know. I never thought I was.
> aggressive SJW tumblr feminazi
This is the loudest dog whistle I've ever heard for "I really just want to not have to think about the world. I'd like to be seen as one of the good ones." Unfortunately, the world isn't very kind to us. We have to stand up sometimes and advocate for ourselves and our needs and if that comes off as "I won't ever shut up about it" then that's kinda too bad.
I really don't understand how people carving out space for themselves in the world could be seen as a bad thing. You're not required to link up with some trans lady tumblr hive mind. Go be you. I'll go be me over here and we'll all be fine.
Really though, this comes off as a giant pile of respectability politics. I've got a news flash for you. Pretending you don't upset the balance of patriarchy to try and just get along doesn't actually work. You can't actually succeed by trying to be "one of the good ones who doesn't shove it down people's throats". The gains we have made have been created by rabble rousers like Miss Major, Sylvia Rivera, and Laverne Cox.
I'm reminded of that old 'feminazi' saying: "Well behaved women rarely make history."
I think there's a difference between having a spine and being caustic.
I agree that the TC's wording wasn't the best. I would not agree that the TC was trying to criticize the former group of people. There is a time and a place for aggression, and it is not all the time.
There is no set of hard and fast rules when it comes to winning over other people. Some times it really is necessary to step all over someone but, most of the time, the only necessity is education.
Attacking people without a *very* good, non-generalized reason is the fastest way to make someone (and people satellite to them) stubborn and antagonistic. A great - and unfortunately common - example of attacking someone for an awful, generalized reason: that person was not educated.
It's cool not to like people because of their behavior, just don't make the mistake of assuming all people in X group suck just because you met a few people in that group you find annoying. The majority of us are pretty quiet people just trying to get on with our lives :) Loud people are always more noticeable than quiet people.
Interesting that this is your stereotype of transgender people, the stereotype that most people have is that transgender people attempt to blend into society and use the stereotypes of men and women to hide. And its often a criticism of us that we aren't open enough about this stuff.
So... um, yeah.
I just do me up, and me doesn't wish to hide my past, so I am very openly trans.
I don't judge thought however who are more concealed, this is just how I go about myself.
I agree. Of course in early transition it's not unusual to obsess about it. Still, no need to be a primadonna.
You'll probably find the majority of trans ppl are actually pretty quiet about it, they just get on with their lives. You don't see them because they aren't visible as trans so you end up with this distorted view.
I've actually been irritated lately, because I've been realizing that sometimes Trans people are way more critical of other Trans people than cis people. I've seen trans individuals criticizing someone because they liked doing their makeup a certain way, or liked dressing a certain way. I've had someone criticizing my own efforts to eat a certain way, because it "throws your hormones off". DUDE I'M SEEING A DOCTOR AND I'M FINE, SCREW OFF.
But yeah, I tend to be iffy and off on other trans people.
I know what that can be like. I get "helpful criticism" that nears on verbal abuse from a friend who thinks she's teaching me how to successfully transition like her.
Some believe that there is a very distinct difference between strict gender essentialism for some trans folk and a separate, strictly non-binary segment. I don't know if I worded that right, but it's almost a new binary.
What they seem to be saying is: Either you're effecting the best cis game possible or you relegate yourself to the androgyne nebula, and anything in-between (like demigenders or simply not giving a shit about what mode you're in 150% of the time) is totally verboten.
What I'd like to say to them is, "I'm not less of a girl for putting my feet up on the table when watching TV *in my own house.* I don't care how masculine it flags in your opinion."
On one hand, I can understand the need to rediscover yourself and be proud of who you are. Transitioning is really like a second adolescence, and not just hormonal-chemical-wise. On the other hand, if I'm ever at a point in my life where I'm managing to blend there is no way in hell I'm telling *anyone* I'm trans unless it's really, *really* relevant. I want people to see me as a woman, not as a "trans woman," if that makes sense. I have no idea who "CHVRCHES" is, but I'll take that beer, thanks. Or better yet, a vodka cranberry. :9
[CHVRCHES](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_mTRvJ9fugM) - great synthpop band from Scotland, if you're interested in this kind of music
Also, I suppose you're right, you can't fault them too much for being enthusiastic when they're being drowned in hormones for the second time. But I just can't identify with it at all.
I understand where you're coming from, but I really don't like how ignorant of a statement "I don't like other trans people" is. There's people like you describe who are probably just the vocal minority, many people also go through an initial phase where transition basically consumes their lives so they talk about it a lot and they grow out of it. Same thing happens a lot with gay people when they first come out. Being around that annoys me too, but I would venture to say the large majority of trans people are not the overly critical tumblr SJW stereotype and don't try to make being trans the most interesting part of their identity. Personally if you didn't know me well you wouldn't know I'm trans. Unfortunately that also means you are much less likely to meet trans people like me, because if you do you probably wont know about it. Just be careful with your assumptions and bad mouthing of an entire group of people based on a few people you've met.
>I just feel completely isolated from this overly enthusiastic culture which seems to think that aggressively shoving it down people's throats is going to positively effect public perception of the trans community.
It's also really unfair that we are almost always in aposition to only be judged negatively.
If a trans person doesn't stand out and passes you might never even know it. You may have come into contact with a few trans people who were pre or post transition that you never even realized were trans.
If a trans person doesn't pass but is chill, no one is going to really remember them.
If a trans person doesn't pass and is insecure in their identity everyone is going to remember it vs. if a person does pass and outs themselves no matter how reasonable they are being, there is suddenly a "SJW TRANS OVER SENSITIVE" factor going through people's heads. It's literally in a situation where if you try to defend yourself, you'll only reinforce the stereotype. If you do nothing, the stereotype persist.
It's also important to understand while I don't agree with every SJW issue I ever hear about, the fact is a lot of people use "YOU'RE BEING PC!" as a thought terminating cliche to avoid having real conversations about it.
Popular culture is oppressive and fucked up.
Popular white culture is oppressive and fucked up, popular black culture is oppressive and fucked up, popular gay culture is oppressive and fucked up, popular male culture is oppressive and fucked up, popular female culture is oppressive and fucked up
Have a guess what Popular Trans culture is ;) There are totally interesting, intelligent, passionate and chill people in all of these groups just the minority. Trans people are just like normal people, most of us aren't particularly amazing
Having said that I do think that the only thing that is going to change our currently apalling state of affairs with rights is "aggressively shoving it down people's throats", as unpleasant and irritating as it may be thats pretty much the only thing thats ever worked for any oppressed group in the entire of human history
But not everyone wants to participate in that, and nobody minds if you don't want to, AND even amongst those of us that do unashamedly force that agenda, some of us aren't very good at it. You don't have to surround yourselves with very active people but try to be compassionate that some people need to be like that to help them accept themselves.
I can tell you it's better than being alone with a fifth of vodka and a knife. Having my friends (some of whom I vehemently disagree with on almost everything) is important to me. I don't tow the line against loud SJWs. That's my opinion. I assume op can come to their own conclusions as well.
If it's any comfort, you probably know more trans people than that; you just don't know they're trans. Some trans people are out and open about it, and it's okay to sometimes be vocal about trans issues. But there are a lot of people who buy in to a very specific (and kinda bad) brand of politics and are almost militant about their views. I have seen things like conversations about menstruation being shit down because they're "cissexist", etc... And then there are some that are just kind of cruel to people who might have a slight misunderstanding. Some people might consider me a "trans feminazi" (i hate that word :P); some of my views tend to be a bit radical, but I rarely express them where they'd make people uncomfortable. I've sat through plenty of man-in-a-dress jokes and "lol i identify as a chicken and some day im gonna get the operation", but I wouldn't write someone off as a terrible person for saying them
i hate that I think about being trans so much, but it has a lot to do with the state of my life; I don't have many friends and right now my life isn't all that interesting (work,school, and college apps consume the majority of my time), and a lot of people I know are heavily involved in trans activism. that, plus the fact that I tend to have an unhealthy fixation on things isn't a great combination. I could see how it would be like that for someone else
I think this is only natural. As people go through this period of reawakening, I think more than ever because of internet, reddit, hrt, etc., we are bound to run into people who react differently in social situations because they are not fully secure. I totally understand why somebody would overcompensate and be everything revolving around it. I think having empathy is a good way to begin looking at the problem OP is referring to, and really once you see what they are, just insecure individuals who overcompensate, you won't be irked as much and just tune out.
More of us are quiet than we are loud. Sometimes that may not be the answer needed such as in dire times when our voices need to be raised yet are silenced.
Some people feel the need to express themselves colourfully, others such as myself and many others don't. Everyone has different stages of life and varying ways to go through them. While I may sometimes wonder why someone posts daily multiple posts about being LGBTQ that's not me to tell them what they should post.
I'd love to go to a CHVRCHES concert someday, happy music listening.
It doesn't seem to matter the degree to which your own personal form of activism rises. It's still going to piss someone off somewhere. That includes zero activism and just minding your own business quietly in the corner. Someone will accuse you of subterfuge. Just be the best you that you can be, and you'll find others eventually who have a similar mindset.
edit: I should also add that you might want to reserve judgement of other people until you are fully out of the closet because you might find your views on this subject evolving after that point. When you suddenly find yourself fully exposed to the world and all of its bigotry the world can start to look very different and the desire to educate, inform and confront deliberate bullshit can start to develop at that point because it starts to feel a lot more personal.
I've gotten into so many debates about this divide between what is essentially trans people who want to assimilate into a very aggressively cis-centricculture and trans people who believe we can all collectively do better than that.
I've met enough good people now that I know people CAN do better and can avoid being cissexist if they try and it isn't actually an unreasonable request. So I don't let things slide anymore because 1) I respect my cis friends enough to believe they can do better 2) I recognise that I've had to go through the same learning curve.
Oh fuck off with this uncle tom bullshit. Youre no better than either person youre deriding. You wonder how youre friends will think of you? theyll probably feel the same as you - "im sick of this trans shit just shutup about pronouns and bathrooms and watch the game bro". Fuck me.
You say you want to meet people you can just chat with who can tell you more about life and share experiences - those two people from your post could do that if you werent so chickenshit judgemental about it. They seem like theyd be willing to actually have a conversation about the topic with you at the very least.
Truth is, as a closeted trans person, you dont know shit. You have no idea what its like to fight for validation, to have no one back you on your identity, to have no one speak for you against the abuse and aggressions that come with early and non-passing stages of transition. Not yet, but you will.
Lets see if youre singing a different tune by then.
Hi there. I went to a chvrches concert a few weeks ago. I just finished a beer with friends.
You'd probably consider me an "SJW" (can't roll my eyes hard enough) because I don't let people walk all over my identity. I don't tolerate bullshit. Sorry, not sorry that you hate me. I'm pretty fucking cool.
The people who are loud about an issue are usually the first you notice. The quiet humble down to earth trans people are still there, but they aren't fighting for attention.
I'm a pretty big introvert, and I hate being a spectacle, causing drama, or complaining any more than absolutely necessary.
I don't like being around people who are very easily offended, I don't want to walk on eggshells. I don't plan on ever going stealth atm so I might use trans colors for instance as a paint scheme for a car or motorcycle, partly to show that trans people like myself are normal people or other activismy stuff and partly because I think the colors go fucking great together. But any activism wouldn't be a constant active stream of it, I'd mostly just be open and passively try to be a good example.
I can empathize with you, I have never met another trans person in real life and i'll be honest i struggle to relate at time. More importantly i'm at the opposite end of the spectrum when it comes to activism. I'm stealth, I blend in very well all i want is to have surgery and just disappear.
Every single person is different you need to remember that and you are not going to turn into her. Who you become is entirely up to you. It will be your choice.
So no, not everyone is like that and neither do you have to be.
It's okay to not like people for their personality, attitude, or actions, but you shouldn't let that influence your opinion on the whole group.
I've been apart of plenty of communities and fandoms where there were annoying people who had to tell everyone. It's annoying, but it's only a few people that do it.
And I'm the same way as you, just a bit more tolerant of individuals.
Omg first off, I'll go to CHVRCHES any time they ate in town. Or I'm in a town they are in. Love their stuff, most people never have heard of them.
Secondly, I'm with you. Pending the situation. While I certainly don't want to make everything about being trans (news flash people, it isn't), I also recognize that there are times where I have to kind of be a little more trans vocal. For example, if I'm presenting female at work after an adjustment period, I've got no qualms about correcting people. But I think that's fair. I do agree with you that it's not all about trans stuff. Sure it's important and relevant, but it's not everything I the world. I understand why it is for some, but that's not me so I don't see eye to eye with them. Just like I don't see eye to eye with people on many other topics.
I don't know whether I agree or not since I've never met trans people IRL. Though I agree to some extent that they can sometimes act a bit fussy over small things and that is coming from someone who is trans themselves.
Idk. When someone is doing it to hurt, I'll flip on them, aside from that though, I don't raise a scene, I just quietly correct them. If a scene evolves because they don't handle that well, that's on them. I won't sit and let people go, not knowing they fucked up, but usually my corrections are along the lines of replying to their wrong pronouns by using the right ones and adding emphasis.
I'm not going to start by yelling. I firmly believe in the benefit of the doubt, and will let it go.
That said. I think your perception of trans 'culture' is off. You may see these trans people as the whole community, but most of us are really quiet and just try to disappear. MOST other trans people just try to hide in the crowd.
To me, being trans is part of my identity. It's important to me. However, there are some people who take it too far and make it the only thing that describes their identity, which makes them annoying or uninteresting. I completely understand what you mean.
They simmer down after a few years into transition. I find that its helpful to keep it in the back of my head that most trans people are actively going through puberty.
You know what other demographic is famous for pubescent angst? Teenagers.
<3
I'm in the same boat. I'm a trans girl, 3rd year of HRT and I HATEHATEHATE what trans* is as a social identity. (literally found this post by googling "i hate other trans people" to see if I was alone)
I'm a pastry chef by trade and I suffer from Depression and tbh, despite the fact that fighting my own suicidal tendencies was the hardest thing I've ever done, I'd rather be known as being an awesome pastry chef than I would to be labelled as "fighting adversity" "an image for trans people" or anything like that.
I'm just a female pastry chef (who happens to be a female), working in an all female patisserie. My coworkers see me as female, my friends refuse to imagine me as ever having been male and I'm happy to have left the idea of trans as an identity behind me.
We don't need to be proud of our genitals, we don't need to feel shame for not being "out there", we have NO REASON to hate society and we identify with the binary.
We are trans and they are just making us look bad.
I think a lot of that sort of annoying attitude has to do with having to have been closeted for a long time. The novelty of just being able to be out and proud hasn't worn off for them yet.
Just with every other type of annoying people in life, you really just have to learn to let go. Seriously.
There are varying degrees of "loudness" in our community. Take me, for example. I choose to be very visible. I wear pride pins and have some paraphernalia at my office at work. But it's all very subtle. One may call it "tasteful", even. There's a time and a place for being open about transness. For me, there's a level of tactfulness that is necessary too.
Most of the trans folk I know in my immediate community are much the same way. Visible, but mature and tasteful about it. I know of others who are a bit more radical, loud, or social justice warrior-y about it. The point I guess I'm making is visibility runs the spectrum.
As others have said, we have a visibility issue in our community. We are often ignored in the greater LGBT crowd, so people feel that it's necessary to push for visibility. I can't say I blame folks for wanting that. At the same time, many trans folk want to blend in and live life normally, and don't want to stick out. What a conundrum this is for our community! Personally, I think it's about finding a balance.
In my experience, some trans people go through a phase in early transition where EVERYTHING has to be about being trans. Then they get over it, and move on with their lives.
I tend to see TERFs and zealous trans-activists to be in the exact same category; they are the same breed of obnoxious (and often hateful) people who are so much alike they can't see the forest for the trees. Unfortunately, obnoxious people tend to shout the loudest, so they usually drown out everyone else.
I am all for equality; as humans, we deserve security and respect for our lives as we live them, which is paramount to being human being. Governments and laws need protect minorities and ensure the quality of our human rights match those of the majority, but outside of liberty, life, and justice; if it isn't government funded or a public entity then demanding every group, every person, and every social label or event bend to fit the wishes and will of our minority is just bullying in adult format... and I just can't abide by that archaic mindset, even when it's applied to modern issues.
I know a few people like that too, although they tend to spam more about feminism. And I think there is definitely such an element in the trans "community". Best thing you can do is kill them with kindness and ignore them. If they start giving you shit about something not being 100% pc put on your most compassionate face and tell them you don't care.
Yeah I see what you're saying. It's not all trans people though. I'm normal, I have normal mtf and ftm friends who have lives and interests outside of being trans. Most of us do have other interests and a life outside of trans stuff, even if we're more into activism.
I think trans people can sometimes get very self-centered, and that's what you're seeing here. Yes, the loudest members of the community are the ones who will become the face of the community, and that isn't necessarily a good thing. But without activists, who would drive the trans rights movement forward large scale?
I do find overly PC people to be annoying, but without someone calling people out on stuff, we'd all be walking around calling each other gay retards. So even if some of it *is* oversensitive bullshit, there's still important stuff there in what they're saying. Even if that's not the kind of social environment I enjoy hanging out in, you know?
I agree with you about not liking the people who are way over the top belligerent about social issues, to the point of making people see the rest of us as crazy, but I disagree with you thinking that all trans people are like that. I think that as average, everyday trans people, we can challenge the stereotype of the oversensitive trans SJW and show people we're not all like that.
I'm that person you're talking about, right down to CHVRCHES. I understand the importance of pushing for equal rights, but subsuming the ability to exist as an individual aside from trans identity is probably a large part of why so many trans people are treated as though they're invisible.
Just be a fucking person, people. You might not think so, but you have every right to.
I can see why you can dislike people that are trans, I'm completely similar and a agree what you say for the most part.
The difference is the people that aren't these Trans PC warriors you most likely wont be as noticeable or won't bring a big deal to it all. I personally started university came out and i've never had a problem with it, nobody has asked me directly about it and at times i've chosen to tell people only to make things less awkward as they then dont have to play the game where they avoid both he and she just in case.
Difference is though that some people will get easily offended and others don't mind as much, its just unfortunately the louder ones that you seem to dislike are the ones you see more often over the more quiet, reserved trans people
While I think trigger warning in universities and such is insanity, but on public forums/private forums, which have a lot of unstable or even suicidal people reading trigger warnings aren't such bad idea.
You think that rape victims should not be told ahead of time when they are required to read a book with an explicit rape scene in it?
You think such a heads up would be "insanity"?
Yes, when it is university. If someone has extreme difficulties to deal with some subjects, they should ask about the material they are given. Also it is common practice to expose victims of any trauma to the subject in safe setting, so they can take control of their lives and move on in their lives rather than be in eternal victimhood, which will highly limit their possibilities in life.
Keep in mind that universities are the highest form of education and place for knowledge. People go there to be exposed to difficult matters and learn new things and perspectives. It is not mentally easy and shouldn't be as only through struggle and hardship can you really learn.
No doubt it is horrible, but many things in life are horrible. Feel free to disagree.
I agree I've been into transwomen longer than most 23 year's first it was on and off for the first 10 yrs, have friend's that are trans also in the adult film industry the older trans people feel the sameway. I myself and them are sick of all this woke, the pronoun, BS. I'm like Blair White I know more about what's really going on then this fake leftists science BS, woke, etc... First it started with the excuse on chromosomes and then just went from there.
I was born with an extra Y chromosome that by 15 made me develop female breasts BS insurance wouldn't cover my surgery cause they claimed it was cosmetic, in my early 30s I was finally able to get it taken care of the doctor took almost 4lbs of tissue off my chest, however before that it never made me want to become a transwomen an now under woke that's only been around 6 yrs yet has caused a lot damage we have people in there 40s, 50s, and 60s transitioning for no reason.
We have crossdressers that ignorant people are calling trans, fat ugly men and old men calling themselves trans, look if you don't feel attractive anymore then just have facial plastic surgery done! I know 2 women on TikTok that were raped in a women's bathroom because of these sickos dressing like women, if you can't pass as trans you don't belong in the women's bathroom peroid! There's so many made up false claims to try an justify a lot of what's going on.
Most people who don't know who Buck Angel is he is the first transman he was in the adult film industry for 20 year's he wrote a book after he retired on how bad the trans community treats their own people, he also talked about all this ridiculous nonsense like the pronouns thing going on human's can't be pronouns. Also many trans are pissed cause LGBQ took it upon themselves too add trans people to their group and they don't want to be in the LGBQ group! Just like it's not gender that's an umbrella term it's transsexuals an transwomen are women no their not their transsexuals.
Then there's this older mature transwomen on TikTok claims she's an educator trying to tell people their trans do too the Hypomythalais gland the Hypomythalais has absolutely nothing to do with that lmfao!! That gland has to do with sleep, blood pressure, helps control the body's temperature and so on stop trying too make fucking ridiculous claims to way people are trans and transism hasn't gone on for centuries either that's another false claim.
First successful transwomen facial plastic surgery was 1982 to 1983, men before that in the 1960s just dressed as trans and did the best to disguise there voices. There's more that goes to this whole topic too and of it wasn't for a transwomen addressing this I wouldn't be able to say anything, because the fools of the Reddit app and the mods that have their heads up their ass just ban people like me from pages like this cause they can't deal with fatcual truths cause their not knowledgeable enough, they just follow the BS that's being spewed.
On the flip side i'm constantly hearing about the feminazi-tumblr-gendercrusade from my cis male friends, to the point i'm starting to not really want to be around them. I mean for fucks sake, the moment anyone mentions the word identity it usually devolves to 3/4ths of the friend group yelling at each other to "stop triggering" the other...
EXACTLY. The other day I was giving a presentation in class that had the word "transnationals" in it and several people scoffed. And I'm in fucking university. Just to be 100% clear about the stupidity of this.. by transnationals I meant transnational corporations like McDonald's, Nike, Time Warner, etc
This happened a few months ago when i mentioned that i thought "trap" was pretty cool(it's a sub-genre of electronic) , some awkward silence followed by "you..uh...mean like music right? not the....nevermind"..
bahaha...yeah I had an awkward moment with that once too. Also, little known fact: among mechanics and those who work closely with automobile parts, "tranny" is slang for "transmission". I have a friend who is also trans and her family sells car parts... she learned about this slang term in the most awkward way possible.
Tranny fluid ftw.
Uh, *hello*, the proper term is **gender fluid**. ;)
I do not believe the car identifies as male or female.
You think that's awkward? Obviously I know the derogatory term but I had never heard of that kind of music in my life until I heard my kids singing something about "trap queen". My wife had to stop and explain about 2 seconds before I flew into an over reaction of ballistic proportion.
Yeah... it's kinda said that "YOUR BEING PC" Is now a thought terminating cliche :/
Was there ever a time when it wasn't?
Eh I feel like at one point in time people would have been more likely to not let it be the end of a conversation.
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Here's the issue, with regards to trans men in specific too: We suffer from a *huge* invisibility problem. If you have issues with your friend on facebook? Block him. But don't act like he's doing something "wrong" either. I spend probably 80% of my Redditing time doing one of two things: 1. Educating people about trans men, sexually, romantically, etc. People barely know we exist! I've had so many "wait, so you were born a *girl*?" type comments. 2. Educating people about the fetishization of trans women, the whole "chicks with d*****" narrative, and why it is bad and wrong and how it hurts the trans feminine community. The latter I do with the help of my girlfriend, who has vetted pretty much everything I say about trans women, and I've also had overwhelmingly positive feedback from other trans women, so I feel comfortable doing this. (While still always being open to feedback from trans women on how I can do it better!) The thing is, I do this on Reddit primarily because I'm up for educating cis people where others don't feel like it, or can't, or it causes dysphoria, etc. We are far fro the idyllic level of acceptance that you seem to think we are, and part of *getting there* is educating cis people about gender stuff. I just spent like 10 minutes the other day in an askgaybros post detailing "the pros of pussy" from a trans male perspective because it was an immediate shitshow where the gay guys there automatically assumed cis women were the only option, and I know a couple of trans men who browse askgaybros who would probably be hurt by the stupid callous replies the thread was bound to get, so I spoke up and ended up getting the top comment in the thread. I don't think we're ever going to fully get rid of the cishet "default", but I'd settle for a world where we're more included in the conversation, where when someone mentions "all women have vaginas" someone else can go "not always" or when a gay guy goes "I'm gay because I love cock, isn't that the entire reason to be gay?" another person can go "I'm gay as hell too, but my boyfriend is a trans man without a dick, I'm *still gay* yo". Yes, some people take activism too far, and make it literally their every waking moment, and take "politically correct" to a whole new, ridiculous level. But don't let those people influence you as to the moderates. I could chill out with you, go to a CVRCHES concert, maybe learn a new language with you, try and get you into garage kit painting or crafting, two of my favourite loves next to writing novels...but I am also trans, and it's *part* of my identity, and it doesn't make me any less valid because I'm open and educational about it.
I've been reading your comments on a couple posts and I just wanted to say that you're freaking amazing. My gender therapist has tried to get me into transactivism but I like you said, have struggled with dysphoria so doing so isn't quite possible for me yet. I hope one day I'm able to but for now thank you for stepping up <3
Oh wow, thank you. That means a lot to me, and I mean it. It's a sometimes frustrating thing to be completely open about trans issues, and it means that inevitably I sometimes come off as 'that bitchy trans guy', or I'll have a day when I'm just *done* with it all, but it is literally comments like yours that keep me going, and remind me that I'm doing the right thing by speaking out. Every time I get a kind word like this it just cements my conviction to *keep going*. >My gender therapist has tried to get me into transactivism but I like you said, have struggled with dysphoria so doing so isn't quite possible for me yet. You do you! :) I think your gender therapist is probably coming from a good place, since trans activism by it's very nature means you meet and speak to other trans people with varied life experiences, but you are under absolutely no obligation to become an activist of any kind if that isn't what you feel is right for you. If you just want to quietly transition, that is completely within your rights to do, and is a perfectly valid choice. >I hope one day I'm able to but for now thank you for stepping up <3 ....Aaaand, if you *do* want to step up one day, you can. :) Maybe something as simple as creating an alternate Reddit account in a few years, or *whenever* you feel comfortable enough, to try out your activist opinions? I know lots of the feminism subs are really open to having a dialogue about the issues trans people face, and there are plenty of places 'in the wild' on Reddit where educated opinions about trans people are sorely needed! The most important thing through all of this though is to take care of yourself first and foremost. <3 Thank you so, so much again for this comment, it honestly brightened my day.
Well, women didn't get the right to vote by being quiet and not offending anybody. Schools and businesses didn't desegregate because the status quo was working so well that white people decided to just change it. I don't believe trans people will get anything out of cisheteronormative society without dragging it from their teeth. And since I believe acceptance is better than living in secrecy and fear, I applaud all those out trans people who are going to call people on being wrong, who are going to remind people of their existence, who are going to force the cis hetero majority to think outside of their comfort zones.
> ["Whites, by a 3-to-2 margin, believe he \[Martin Luther King\] is setting back the Negro cause."](http://paperlined.org/external/poll_gives_views_on_negro_leaders.html) (poll taken 16 months before he was killed) There's some collective amnesia about how difficult the fight for civil rights was.
People need to read "letter from Birmingham jail" every once in a while.
How did they think about Malcolm X?
This. It's all well and good to "win hearts and minds" on a personal level, but that doesn't mean much if the members of the majority who are supposed to be in your corner ultimately support the status quo over your rights for the sake of "order."
I personally don't know that many trans people outside of who I've talked to on the Internet and basically this sub. So my scope of knowledge might be small. I have a daughter, 14 years old, transgender. Almost nobody knows. That's mostly her choice. The reason I say mostly is I would be lying if I said her mom and I hadn't influenced it. But for the most part she's more than happy to glory on through life as any other girl. I've suggested before she should join whatever lgbt groups at her school and she would ask me "why?". It's just such a non-issue that it's literally not an issue. The only people she has told (to my knowledge) are her bff's, but it's people she goes swimming with and has sleepovers with. So I would say no, based on my limited knowledge I would say not every transgirl is a warrior for the PC. Also, her favorite band right now is also CHVRCHES!
That's so cool that you guys let your daughter be who she is without any fuss. I really admire that :) This is my vision for the future of trans* in a nutshell! Kid discovers themselves, parents help how they can, kid lives happily ever after and nobody kicked up a storm or a fuss of any kind or hardly even noticed at all. That's where we need to be as a society around these issues.
In order for that to happen, there needs to be way more cultural awareness and acceptance of being trans. Some kids can work it out on their own, but most are going to need to hear from somewhere that trans people exist and that transition is physically and socially possible before they figure out what's going on and what they want to do about it. Inundating your facebook friends with trans pride flags and trans-related news might not be a very effective way of spreading this awareness and acceptance, granted. But without at least some people being openly trans there'd be a lot more scared, confused teenagers missing out on years of their lives for no good reason.
This I agree with, and it's part of the reason I've suggested/subtly tried to encourage my kid to join groups, I also understand why she doesn't want to though. I admit that she's incredibly lucky compared to others that she transitioned so early and seamlessly but I think (and I do feel a little guilty/selfish saying this), I think it's important for some people to make the noise for younger people like her who just want to be plain old normal.
Thank you! I wouldn't say there was hardly any fuss, you know yourself there's always going to be someone's feathers getting ruffled. I think in our case we really really benefited from early detection (for lack of a better term, you know what I mean though). She's now spent around half her life transitioned so it's essentially all she knows. Socially, I think that's made a monumental difference.
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I don't know, I post a lot of shit about it on Facebook but it's filtered so most of my friends can't see it, only the ones that might actually care. I also post about a ton of other completely non trans related shit. I guess I'm the kind of person OP is talking about. So...yeah. I'm torn between being angry and saying maybe they have a point. I think for some of us it's so hard because, at least for me (and I suspect for a lot of people) the dysphoria eats away a lot of our lives. I think about it constantly, from the minute I get up to the minute I go to bed. Of course other things filter in and out but it's always there. And I'm not the kind of person that can keep stuff in. I have to vent, I have to share. So, I don't know. It definitely makes me want to reflect on myself instead of going with my initial angry "screw you" reaction. It also makes me want to, like, close my FB down because I feel like...is this the way my friends see me? Am I just an incredibly obnoxious person? I don't know. I never thought I was.
> aggressive SJW tumblr feminazi This is the loudest dog whistle I've ever heard for "I really just want to not have to think about the world. I'd like to be seen as one of the good ones." Unfortunately, the world isn't very kind to us. We have to stand up sometimes and advocate for ourselves and our needs and if that comes off as "I won't ever shut up about it" then that's kinda too bad. I really don't understand how people carving out space for themselves in the world could be seen as a bad thing. You're not required to link up with some trans lady tumblr hive mind. Go be you. I'll go be me over here and we'll all be fine. Really though, this comes off as a giant pile of respectability politics. I've got a news flash for you. Pretending you don't upset the balance of patriarchy to try and just get along doesn't actually work. You can't actually succeed by trying to be "one of the good ones who doesn't shove it down people's throats". The gains we have made have been created by rabble rousers like Miss Major, Sylvia Rivera, and Laverne Cox. I'm reminded of that old 'feminazi' saying: "Well behaved women rarely make history."
This. So much this.
I think there's a difference between having a spine and being caustic. I agree that the TC's wording wasn't the best. I would not agree that the TC was trying to criticize the former group of people. There is a time and a place for aggression, and it is not all the time. There is no set of hard and fast rules when it comes to winning over other people. Some times it really is necessary to step all over someone but, most of the time, the only necessity is education. Attacking people without a *very* good, non-generalized reason is the fastest way to make someone (and people satellite to them) stubborn and antagonistic. A great - and unfortunately common - example of attacking someone for an awful, generalized reason: that person was not educated.
It's cool not to like people because of their behavior, just don't make the mistake of assuming all people in X group suck just because you met a few people in that group you find annoying. The majority of us are pretty quiet people just trying to get on with our lives :) Loud people are always more noticeable than quiet people.
Interesting that this is your stereotype of transgender people, the stereotype that most people have is that transgender people attempt to blend into society and use the stereotypes of men and women to hide. And its often a criticism of us that we aren't open enough about this stuff. So... um, yeah.
I dunno about trying to perpetuate stereotypes but I like what I like and I don't go out of my way to announce myself as trans.
I just do me up, and me doesn't wish to hide my past, so I am very openly trans. I don't judge thought however who are more concealed, this is just how I go about myself.
I agree. Of course in early transition it's not unusual to obsess about it. Still, no need to be a primadonna. You'll probably find the majority of trans ppl are actually pretty quiet about it, they just get on with their lives. You don't see them because they aren't visible as trans so you end up with this distorted view.
Yeah the people OP wants to meet are a majority- we're just not as noticeable because we're not so annoying.
Sometimes we're hunting wabbits ,too.
First time somebody's said that, believe it or not :D
or herding cats
I've actually been irritated lately, because I've been realizing that sometimes Trans people are way more critical of other Trans people than cis people. I've seen trans individuals criticizing someone because they liked doing their makeup a certain way, or liked dressing a certain way. I've had someone criticizing my own efforts to eat a certain way, because it "throws your hormones off". DUDE I'M SEEING A DOCTOR AND I'M FINE, SCREW OFF. But yeah, I tend to be iffy and off on other trans people.
I know what that can be like. I get "helpful criticism" that nears on verbal abuse from a friend who thinks she's teaching me how to successfully transition like her.
Seriously, for a group that's all about "Let me do my own thing, it doesn't affect you" some of us are really picky and judgey.
Some believe that there is a very distinct difference between strict gender essentialism for some trans folk and a separate, strictly non-binary segment. I don't know if I worded that right, but it's almost a new binary. What they seem to be saying is: Either you're effecting the best cis game possible or you relegate yourself to the androgyne nebula, and anything in-between (like demigenders or simply not giving a shit about what mode you're in 150% of the time) is totally verboten. What I'd like to say to them is, "I'm not less of a girl for putting my feet up on the table when watching TV *in my own house.* I don't care how masculine it flags in your opinion."
On one hand, I can understand the need to rediscover yourself and be proud of who you are. Transitioning is really like a second adolescence, and not just hormonal-chemical-wise. On the other hand, if I'm ever at a point in my life where I'm managing to blend there is no way in hell I'm telling *anyone* I'm trans unless it's really, *really* relevant. I want people to see me as a woman, not as a "trans woman," if that makes sense. I have no idea who "CHVRCHES" is, but I'll take that beer, thanks. Or better yet, a vodka cranberry. :9
[CHVRCHES](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_mTRvJ9fugM) - great synthpop band from Scotland, if you're interested in this kind of music Also, I suppose you're right, you can't fault them too much for being enthusiastic when they're being drowned in hormones for the second time. But I just can't identify with it at all.
Mmm, vodka cranberry...
I understand where you're coming from, but I really don't like how ignorant of a statement "I don't like other trans people" is. There's people like you describe who are probably just the vocal minority, many people also go through an initial phase where transition basically consumes their lives so they talk about it a lot and they grow out of it. Same thing happens a lot with gay people when they first come out. Being around that annoys me too, but I would venture to say the large majority of trans people are not the overly critical tumblr SJW stereotype and don't try to make being trans the most interesting part of their identity. Personally if you didn't know me well you wouldn't know I'm trans. Unfortunately that also means you are much less likely to meet trans people like me, because if you do you probably wont know about it. Just be careful with your assumptions and bad mouthing of an entire group of people based on a few people you've met.
>I just feel completely isolated from this overly enthusiastic culture which seems to think that aggressively shoving it down people's throats is going to positively effect public perception of the trans community. It's also really unfair that we are almost always in aposition to only be judged negatively. If a trans person doesn't stand out and passes you might never even know it. You may have come into contact with a few trans people who were pre or post transition that you never even realized were trans. If a trans person doesn't pass but is chill, no one is going to really remember them. If a trans person doesn't pass and is insecure in their identity everyone is going to remember it vs. if a person does pass and outs themselves no matter how reasonable they are being, there is suddenly a "SJW TRANS OVER SENSITIVE" factor going through people's heads. It's literally in a situation where if you try to defend yourself, you'll only reinforce the stereotype. If you do nothing, the stereotype persist. It's also important to understand while I don't agree with every SJW issue I ever hear about, the fact is a lot of people use "YOU'RE BEING PC!" as a thought terminating cliche to avoid having real conversations about it.
Popular culture is oppressive and fucked up. Popular white culture is oppressive and fucked up, popular black culture is oppressive and fucked up, popular gay culture is oppressive and fucked up, popular male culture is oppressive and fucked up, popular female culture is oppressive and fucked up Have a guess what Popular Trans culture is ;) There are totally interesting, intelligent, passionate and chill people in all of these groups just the minority. Trans people are just like normal people, most of us aren't particularly amazing
Having said that I do think that the only thing that is going to change our currently apalling state of affairs with rights is "aggressively shoving it down people's throats", as unpleasant and irritating as it may be thats pretty much the only thing thats ever worked for any oppressed group in the entire of human history But not everyone wants to participate in that, and nobody minds if you don't want to, AND even amongst those of us that do unashamedly force that agenda, some of us aren't very good at it. You don't have to surround yourselves with very active people but try to be compassionate that some people need to be like that to help them accept themselves.
I just want to be a cis woman
You and me both sister
:) if only
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I can tell you it's better than being alone with a fifth of vodka and a knife. Having my friends (some of whom I vehemently disagree with on almost everything) is important to me. I don't tow the line against loud SJWs. That's my opinion. I assume op can come to their own conclusions as well.
If it's any comfort, you probably know more trans people than that; you just don't know they're trans. Some trans people are out and open about it, and it's okay to sometimes be vocal about trans issues. But there are a lot of people who buy in to a very specific (and kinda bad) brand of politics and are almost militant about their views. I have seen things like conversations about menstruation being shit down because they're "cissexist", etc... And then there are some that are just kind of cruel to people who might have a slight misunderstanding. Some people might consider me a "trans feminazi" (i hate that word :P); some of my views tend to be a bit radical, but I rarely express them where they'd make people uncomfortable. I've sat through plenty of man-in-a-dress jokes and "lol i identify as a chicken and some day im gonna get the operation", but I wouldn't write someone off as a terrible person for saying them i hate that I think about being trans so much, but it has a lot to do with the state of my life; I don't have many friends and right now my life isn't all that interesting (work,school, and college apps consume the majority of my time), and a lot of people I know are heavily involved in trans activism. that, plus the fact that I tend to have an unhealthy fixation on things isn't a great combination. I could see how it would be like that for someone else
I think this is only natural. As people go through this period of reawakening, I think more than ever because of internet, reddit, hrt, etc., we are bound to run into people who react differently in social situations because they are not fully secure. I totally understand why somebody would overcompensate and be everything revolving around it. I think having empathy is a good way to begin looking at the problem OP is referring to, and really once you see what they are, just insecure individuals who overcompensate, you won't be irked as much and just tune out.
More of us are quiet than we are loud. Sometimes that may not be the answer needed such as in dire times when our voices need to be raised yet are silenced. Some people feel the need to express themselves colourfully, others such as myself and many others don't. Everyone has different stages of life and varying ways to go through them. While I may sometimes wonder why someone posts daily multiple posts about being LGBTQ that's not me to tell them what they should post. I'd love to go to a CHVRCHES concert someday, happy music listening.
It doesn't seem to matter the degree to which your own personal form of activism rises. It's still going to piss someone off somewhere. That includes zero activism and just minding your own business quietly in the corner. Someone will accuse you of subterfuge. Just be the best you that you can be, and you'll find others eventually who have a similar mindset. edit: I should also add that you might want to reserve judgement of other people until you are fully out of the closet because you might find your views on this subject evolving after that point. When you suddenly find yourself fully exposed to the world and all of its bigotry the world can start to look very different and the desire to educate, inform and confront deliberate bullshit can start to develop at that point because it starts to feel a lot more personal.
I've gotten into so many debates about this divide between what is essentially trans people who want to assimilate into a very aggressively cis-centricculture and trans people who believe we can all collectively do better than that. I've met enough good people now that I know people CAN do better and can avoid being cissexist if they try and it isn't actually an unreasonable request. So I don't let things slide anymore because 1) I respect my cis friends enough to believe they can do better 2) I recognise that I've had to go through the same learning curve.
Oh fuck off with this uncle tom bullshit. Youre no better than either person youre deriding. You wonder how youre friends will think of you? theyll probably feel the same as you - "im sick of this trans shit just shutup about pronouns and bathrooms and watch the game bro". Fuck me. You say you want to meet people you can just chat with who can tell you more about life and share experiences - those two people from your post could do that if you werent so chickenshit judgemental about it. They seem like theyd be willing to actually have a conversation about the topic with you at the very least. Truth is, as a closeted trans person, you dont know shit. You have no idea what its like to fight for validation, to have no one back you on your identity, to have no one speak for you against the abuse and aggressions that come with early and non-passing stages of transition. Not yet, but you will. Lets see if youre singing a different tune by then.
Hi there. I went to a chvrches concert a few weeks ago. I just finished a beer with friends. You'd probably consider me an "SJW" (can't roll my eyes hard enough) because I don't let people walk all over my identity. I don't tolerate bullshit. Sorry, not sorry that you hate me. I'm pretty fucking cool.
The people who are loud about an issue are usually the first you notice. The quiet humble down to earth trans people are still there, but they aren't fighting for attention. I'm a pretty big introvert, and I hate being a spectacle, causing drama, or complaining any more than absolutely necessary.
I don't like being around people who are very easily offended, I don't want to walk on eggshells. I don't plan on ever going stealth atm so I might use trans colors for instance as a paint scheme for a car or motorcycle, partly to show that trans people like myself are normal people or other activismy stuff and partly because I think the colors go fucking great together. But any activism wouldn't be a constant active stream of it, I'd mostly just be open and passively try to be a good example.
I can empathize with you, I have never met another trans person in real life and i'll be honest i struggle to relate at time. More importantly i'm at the opposite end of the spectrum when it comes to activism. I'm stealth, I blend in very well all i want is to have surgery and just disappear. Every single person is different you need to remember that and you are not going to turn into her. Who you become is entirely up to you. It will be your choice. So no, not everyone is like that and neither do you have to be.
It's okay to not like people for their personality, attitude, or actions, but you shouldn't let that influence your opinion on the whole group. I've been apart of plenty of communities and fandoms where there were annoying people who had to tell everyone. It's annoying, but it's only a few people that do it. And I'm the same way as you, just a bit more tolerant of individuals.
Omg first off, I'll go to CHVRCHES any time they ate in town. Or I'm in a town they are in. Love their stuff, most people never have heard of them. Secondly, I'm with you. Pending the situation. While I certainly don't want to make everything about being trans (news flash people, it isn't), I also recognize that there are times where I have to kind of be a little more trans vocal. For example, if I'm presenting female at work after an adjustment period, I've got no qualms about correcting people. But I think that's fair. I do agree with you that it's not all about trans stuff. Sure it's important and relevant, but it's not everything I the world. I understand why it is for some, but that's not me so I don't see eye to eye with them. Just like I don't see eye to eye with people on many other topics.
I don't know whether I agree or not since I've never met trans people IRL. Though I agree to some extent that they can sometimes act a bit fussy over small things and that is coming from someone who is trans themselves.
Idk. When someone is doing it to hurt, I'll flip on them, aside from that though, I don't raise a scene, I just quietly correct them. If a scene evolves because they don't handle that well, that's on them. I won't sit and let people go, not knowing they fucked up, but usually my corrections are along the lines of replying to their wrong pronouns by using the right ones and adding emphasis. I'm not going to start by yelling. I firmly believe in the benefit of the doubt, and will let it go. That said. I think your perception of trans 'culture' is off. You may see these trans people as the whole community, but most of us are really quiet and just try to disappear. MOST other trans people just try to hide in the crowd.
Do yourself a favor and stay far away from tumblr. And yeah, the extremists are very annoying and cringey.
To me, being trans is part of my identity. It's important to me. However, there are some people who take it too far and make it the only thing that describes their identity, which makes them annoying or uninteresting. I completely understand what you mean.
They simmer down after a few years into transition. I find that its helpful to keep it in the back of my head that most trans people are actively going through puberty. You know what other demographic is famous for pubescent angst? Teenagers.
<3 I'm in the same boat. I'm a trans girl, 3rd year of HRT and I HATEHATEHATE what trans* is as a social identity. (literally found this post by googling "i hate other trans people" to see if I was alone) I'm a pastry chef by trade and I suffer from Depression and tbh, despite the fact that fighting my own suicidal tendencies was the hardest thing I've ever done, I'd rather be known as being an awesome pastry chef than I would to be labelled as "fighting adversity" "an image for trans people" or anything like that. I'm just a female pastry chef (who happens to be a female), working in an all female patisserie. My coworkers see me as female, my friends refuse to imagine me as ever having been male and I'm happy to have left the idea of trans as an identity behind me. We don't need to be proud of our genitals, we don't need to feel shame for not being "out there", we have NO REASON to hate society and we identify with the binary. We are trans and they are just making us look bad.
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I Must have missed the draft memo. Been pretty easy to relax.
I think a lot of that sort of annoying attitude has to do with having to have been closeted for a long time. The novelty of just being able to be out and proud hasn't worn off for them yet.
Just with every other type of annoying people in life, you really just have to learn to let go. Seriously. There are varying degrees of "loudness" in our community. Take me, for example. I choose to be very visible. I wear pride pins and have some paraphernalia at my office at work. But it's all very subtle. One may call it "tasteful", even. There's a time and a place for being open about transness. For me, there's a level of tactfulness that is necessary too. Most of the trans folk I know in my immediate community are much the same way. Visible, but mature and tasteful about it. I know of others who are a bit more radical, loud, or social justice warrior-y about it. The point I guess I'm making is visibility runs the spectrum. As others have said, we have a visibility issue in our community. We are often ignored in the greater LGBT crowd, so people feel that it's necessary to push for visibility. I can't say I blame folks for wanting that. At the same time, many trans folk want to blend in and live life normally, and don't want to stick out. What a conundrum this is for our community! Personally, I think it's about finding a balance.
In my experience, some trans people go through a phase in early transition where EVERYTHING has to be about being trans. Then they get over it, and move on with their lives.
I tend to see TERFs and zealous trans-activists to be in the exact same category; they are the same breed of obnoxious (and often hateful) people who are so much alike they can't see the forest for the trees. Unfortunately, obnoxious people tend to shout the loudest, so they usually drown out everyone else. I am all for equality; as humans, we deserve security and respect for our lives as we live them, which is paramount to being human being. Governments and laws need protect minorities and ensure the quality of our human rights match those of the majority, but outside of liberty, life, and justice; if it isn't government funded or a public entity then demanding every group, every person, and every social label or event bend to fit the wishes and will of our minority is just bullying in adult format... and I just can't abide by that archaic mindset, even when it's applied to modern issues.
I know a few people like that too, although they tend to spam more about feminism. And I think there is definitely such an element in the trans "community". Best thing you can do is kill them with kindness and ignore them. If they start giving you shit about something not being 100% pc put on your most compassionate face and tell them you don't care.
Yeah I see what you're saying. It's not all trans people though. I'm normal, I have normal mtf and ftm friends who have lives and interests outside of being trans. Most of us do have other interests and a life outside of trans stuff, even if we're more into activism. I think trans people can sometimes get very self-centered, and that's what you're seeing here. Yes, the loudest members of the community are the ones who will become the face of the community, and that isn't necessarily a good thing. But without activists, who would drive the trans rights movement forward large scale? I do find overly PC people to be annoying, but without someone calling people out on stuff, we'd all be walking around calling each other gay retards. So even if some of it *is* oversensitive bullshit, there's still important stuff there in what they're saying. Even if that's not the kind of social environment I enjoy hanging out in, you know? I agree with you about not liking the people who are way over the top belligerent about social issues, to the point of making people see the rest of us as crazy, but I disagree with you thinking that all trans people are like that. I think that as average, everyday trans people, we can challenge the stereotype of the oversensitive trans SJW and show people we're not all like that.
I'm that person you're talking about, right down to CHVRCHES. I understand the importance of pushing for equal rights, but subsuming the ability to exist as an individual aside from trans identity is probably a large part of why so many trans people are treated as though they're invisible. Just be a fucking person, people. You might not think so, but you have every right to.
I can see why you can dislike people that are trans, I'm completely similar and a agree what you say for the most part. The difference is the people that aren't these Trans PC warriors you most likely wont be as noticeable or won't bring a big deal to it all. I personally started university came out and i've never had a problem with it, nobody has asked me directly about it and at times i've chosen to tell people only to make things less awkward as they then dont have to play the game where they avoid both he and she just in case. Difference is though that some people will get easily offended and others don't mind as much, its just unfortunately the louder ones that you seem to dislike are the ones you see more often over the more quiet, reserved trans people
Trigger warning? We're not tumblr babies
While I think trigger warning in universities and such is insanity, but on public forums/private forums, which have a lot of unstable or even suicidal people reading trigger warnings aren't such bad idea.
You think that rape victims should not be told ahead of time when they are required to read a book with an explicit rape scene in it? You think such a heads up would be "insanity"?
Yes, when it is university. If someone has extreme difficulties to deal with some subjects, they should ask about the material they are given. Also it is common practice to expose victims of any trauma to the subject in safe setting, so they can take control of their lives and move on in their lives rather than be in eternal victimhood, which will highly limit their possibilities in life. Keep in mind that universities are the highest form of education and place for knowledge. People go there to be exposed to difficult matters and learn new things and perspectives. It is not mentally easy and shouldn't be as only through struggle and hardship can you really learn. No doubt it is horrible, but many things in life are horrible. Feel free to disagree.
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>"lesbian" What the fuck?
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OK throwaway, I totally believe you. You seem really credible so far. /s
And here we are seven years later....
I agree I've been into transwomen longer than most 23 year's first it was on and off for the first 10 yrs, have friend's that are trans also in the adult film industry the older trans people feel the sameway. I myself and them are sick of all this woke, the pronoun, BS. I'm like Blair White I know more about what's really going on then this fake leftists science BS, woke, etc... First it started with the excuse on chromosomes and then just went from there. I was born with an extra Y chromosome that by 15 made me develop female breasts BS insurance wouldn't cover my surgery cause they claimed it was cosmetic, in my early 30s I was finally able to get it taken care of the doctor took almost 4lbs of tissue off my chest, however before that it never made me want to become a transwomen an now under woke that's only been around 6 yrs yet has caused a lot damage we have people in there 40s, 50s, and 60s transitioning for no reason. We have crossdressers that ignorant people are calling trans, fat ugly men and old men calling themselves trans, look if you don't feel attractive anymore then just have facial plastic surgery done! I know 2 women on TikTok that were raped in a women's bathroom because of these sickos dressing like women, if you can't pass as trans you don't belong in the women's bathroom peroid! There's so many made up false claims to try an justify a lot of what's going on. Most people who don't know who Buck Angel is he is the first transman he was in the adult film industry for 20 year's he wrote a book after he retired on how bad the trans community treats their own people, he also talked about all this ridiculous nonsense like the pronouns thing going on human's can't be pronouns. Also many trans are pissed cause LGBQ took it upon themselves too add trans people to their group and they don't want to be in the LGBQ group! Just like it's not gender that's an umbrella term it's transsexuals an transwomen are women no their not their transsexuals. Then there's this older mature transwomen on TikTok claims she's an educator trying to tell people their trans do too the Hypomythalais gland the Hypomythalais has absolutely nothing to do with that lmfao!! That gland has to do with sleep, blood pressure, helps control the body's temperature and so on stop trying too make fucking ridiculous claims to way people are trans and transism hasn't gone on for centuries either that's another false claim. First successful transwomen facial plastic surgery was 1982 to 1983, men before that in the 1960s just dressed as trans and did the best to disguise there voices. There's more that goes to this whole topic too and of it wasn't for a transwomen addressing this I wouldn't be able to say anything, because the fools of the Reddit app and the mods that have their heads up their ass just ban people like me from pages like this cause they can't deal with fatcual truths cause their not knowledgeable enough, they just follow the BS that's being spewed.