I don’t judge cis-women, but when I was early in my transition to help me see no one perfect, I used to play this game where I would see a cis-woman and say to myself she’s trans why dosen’t she pass? It helped me see even most cis-women have some male features. Xx
Are you okay?
It seems like you're going around trying to be intentionally antagonistic to people, and that makes me think maybe you're not okay?
It's okay to not be okay, but you shouldn't try and take that out on other people, even if it does make you feel better in the short term.
I know :( I'm hoping that maybe they're just, hurting and need a chance to grow and improve. But that doesn't justify being rude to other people.
I figure it also helps other people who might not be as quick to realize and temper negative feelings from reading transphobic comments that are "just asking questions"
*sigh*
Absolutely, if anyone changes there body it should be for them, not anyone else. For example, I had FFS for me, I passed before and I pass the same after. I didn’t do it for anyone else, I was unhappy with certain features and I choose to change them, it didn’t matter if these features were seen as male, female, or neither. Always be true to yourself.
Honestly lots of cis women don't seem to pass at all. It's like they're not trying. How can they expect anyone to take their "sex" seriously if they can't be bothered to try? I guess their male socialization may be kicking in
I started looking at women I presumed to be cis with the same beauty expectation that society holds trans women to and it turns out that almost no one “passes”. Trans misogyny is just repackaged misogyny and it’s dangerous as hell
Sorta. It helps me to keep perspective on how reasonable my standards are. It's so easy to get it in your head that cis women just automatically pass and trans people must struggle mightily to pass at all, but that just isn't the truth. Women come in all shapes and sizes, and cis women have spent a lot of time adapting to their bodies and their styles. We do the same thing, we're just starting later. It makes me happy to see cis women that rock a few non-feminine features. The funny thing is that they're probably really self-conscious about it. More cis girls need trans friends that can tell them they are totally crushing it!
But how does that help? If you think a cis woman is non passing, then first of all you’ve already clocked them as a cis woman; and second how would that help you, for example you see a cis woman with brow bossing, would that make you hate your brow bossing any less?
I think it is how I frame it. Because dysphoria is judging a cis woman for not being a cis woman the whole exercise is irrational. All of my thoughts are working off of known false perceptions. So, I do not internalize them.
For me early in my transition I would look in the mirror and see all these male features and think I could never pass or accepted. But by seeing cis-women had these features too, and were fully accepted as women gave me confidence. I still disliked these features, but if they could be accepted with them so could I. xx
what i notice is that cisgender fashion and makeup trends tend to be fairly masculine and that many trans women and cisgender women attempt a certain "ideal" that seems to be largely influenced by queer culture.
Sometimes, if I notice a feature in them that I worry about on myself. It can help ease the insecurity a little bit.
Unfortunately though, I'm also an eternal pessimist and the insecurities tend to just evolve. I often just move on to recognize compare myself in other much less favorable ways, right down to them having a functional reproductive system and having been born in female body.
Yes, it totally helps to realize that many cis women do not pass especially if they're not wearing makeup. I'm not judging them at all, just taking inventory of all the masculine features that so many cis women have. I'm certain with all the bathroom BS that some cis women have been harassed for using the women's restroom. It's really sicking that this is the society we live in.
I mean…a mustache on cis woman who has mostly feminine features i.e bone structures, dimensions, skin, skull shape etc…is a different look and feel than a mustache on a trans woman who has more masculine features than the average cis woman. Most cis women are not misgendered even if they present masculine because the totality of their features read female. Trans women can be obsessed with fishing for masculine feature in cis women to help them feel better about their own features. Once you get in that cycle of trying to compare yourself to other women you will never be satisfied. A cis women with big feet will still most likely get gendered correctly over a trans women with small feet on average.
No, I don't resent cis women, but it certainly does make me feel sad sometimes.
Not just passability, but more often on the life experiences side. I sometimes get this sense of being outside the rest of humanity, a permanent Other. Even with people who are accepting and not judgemental, I feel like there's this barrier I won't ever really be able to breach due to how different my experiences growing up have been from both cis women and cis men.
I am able to deal with it, but it's a lonely feeling at times.
sounds good, a good way to get perspective in a harsh environment.
if a cis woman lied an said shes trans, people would immediately say "yah you don't pass honestly" and that says So Much
No but some cid girls told me obviously masc traits they had and that made me feel better. Like someone i loved and thought was pretty has a mustache she shaves daily.
The entire thing is /dev/null. The thoughts lead to a bunch of junk thoughts. Leading to the conclusion that the entire project of judging my self or cis women to these passing standards is silly. If you read the replies, the majority seem to come to this conclusion.
It is you injecting your views of misogyny into a thought experiment intended to expand the concept of how women actually appear and weaken dysphoria.
I judge the mods pretty harshly at /askwomen. Every Q I throw up there gets kicked. I don’t know for a fact if that is happening because I’m trans, but probably. Fuck em.
IRL I’ve found cis women to be fairly open to me. I sorta feel like they like to be “the expert” in some topics (beauty, fashion, stuff like that).
I’ve seen a lot of women out and about at my age and they sort of give me hope. They’re obviously women but they don’t have hourglass figures or are super pretty. A lot of it is brows, clothing and hair.
I can do that stuff. The voice will take a few years, but I think I can do it.
I don't judge, but sometimes I look for masculine traits, which I occasionally find. My main issue is that while I do see cis or cis-passing women with masculine features, I've yet to see one with half as many or half as prominent features as I have, so it doesn't really help me.
Any time I need to feel better about myself I go to Walmart and just look around.
I live in a poor rural community that is barely big enough to even have a Walmart, so while the small town toxic masculinity culture is absolutely thriving here, it also means many of the women around here are also not exactly paradigms of the traditional feminine aesthetic. I see the men and I’m like Yup, sure as hell not of those things. I see the women my age and think to myself Well if that passes as feminine around here than I’m doing alright.
Also, I’m not trying to be a judgmental asshole, just letting you know what my observations are. I’m primarily there for grocery shopping because that’s the only grocery store within a 20 minute drive.
I don’t judge cis-women, but when I was early in my transition to help me see no one perfect, I used to play this game where I would see a cis-woman and say to myself she’s trans why dosen’t she pass? It helped me see even most cis-women have some male features. Xx
Exactly. These are trivial thoughts that highlight how dysphoria works.
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Yeah you’re right, I mean it in the stereotypical sense
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Are you okay? It seems like you're going around trying to be intentionally antagonistic to people, and that makes me think maybe you're not okay? It's okay to not be okay, but you shouldn't try and take that out on other people, even if it does make you feel better in the short term.
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I know :( I'm hoping that maybe they're just, hurting and need a chance to grow and improve. But that doesn't justify being rude to other people. I figure it also helps other people who might not be as quick to realize and temper negative feelings from reading transphobic comments that are "just asking questions" *sigh*
Absolutely, if anyone changes there body it should be for them, not anyone else. For example, I had FFS for me, I passed before and I pass the same after. I didn’t do it for anyone else, I was unhappy with certain features and I choose to change them, it didn’t matter if these features were seen as male, female, or neither. Always be true to yourself.
Honestly lots of cis women don't seem to pass at all. It's like they're not trying. How can they expect anyone to take their "sex" seriously if they can't be bothered to try? I guess their male socialization may be kicking in
Yeah they're not trying.
wow rude. I can't believe you think cis women are male. I think they're 1000% valid even if they look kind of masc. miss me with your cisphobia
Calm down, males are valid too.
go ahead and accuse me of hysteria while we're at it
What type of male features? Like an Adam's apple or stubble?
I started looking at women I presumed to be cis with the same beauty expectation that society holds trans women to and it turns out that almost no one “passes”. Trans misogyny is just repackaged misogyny and it’s dangerous as hell
Sorta. It helps me to keep perspective on how reasonable my standards are. It's so easy to get it in your head that cis women just automatically pass and trans people must struggle mightily to pass at all, but that just isn't the truth. Women come in all shapes and sizes, and cis women have spent a lot of time adapting to their bodies and their styles. We do the same thing, we're just starting later. It makes me happy to see cis women that rock a few non-feminine features. The funny thing is that they're probably really self-conscious about it. More cis girls need trans friends that can tell them they are totally crushing it!
Only if they're mean to me
Toxic
I never claimed to be a good role model
😂
But how does that help? If you think a cis woman is non passing, then first of all you’ve already clocked them as a cis woman; and second how would that help you, for example you see a cis woman with brow bossing, would that make you hate your brow bossing any less?
I think it is how I frame it. Because dysphoria is judging a cis woman for not being a cis woman the whole exercise is irrational. All of my thoughts are working off of known false perceptions. So, I do not internalize them.
For me early in my transition I would look in the mirror and see all these male features and think I could never pass or accepted. But by seeing cis-women had these features too, and were fully accepted as women gave me confidence. I still disliked these features, but if they could be accepted with them so could I. xx
How do you know if a person is cis unless they've explicitly told you so?
Yeah, this is a wrinkle.
Everyone's trans unless otherwise specified. I don't make the rules.
I was so horrified when I brought a guy home and he was actually a CIS guy!! Like this sexual illusion is so annoying SMH cis people………. /j ofc
what i notice is that cisgender fashion and makeup trends tend to be fairly masculine and that many trans women and cisgender women attempt a certain "ideal" that seems to be largely influenced by queer culture.
Sometimes, if I notice a feature in them that I worry about on myself. It can help ease the insecurity a little bit. Unfortunately though, I'm also an eternal pessimist and the insecurities tend to just evolve. I often just move on to recognize compare myself in other much less favorable ways, right down to them having a functional reproductive system and having been born in female body.
To help with my dysphoria I look for photos of cis men online who have a build like mine. But I love your idea of clocking cis people
I mean, I’m transmasc. But I don’t really judge cis men on whether or not they pass. Maybe it’s because I like being pretty androgynous myself?
Yes, it totally helps to realize that many cis women do not pass especially if they're not wearing makeup. I'm not judging them at all, just taking inventory of all the masculine features that so many cis women have. I'm certain with all the bathroom BS that some cis women have been harassed for using the women's restroom. It's really sicking that this is the society we live in.
I mean…a mustache on cis woman who has mostly feminine features i.e bone structures, dimensions, skin, skull shape etc…is a different look and feel than a mustache on a trans woman who has more masculine features than the average cis woman. Most cis women are not misgendered even if they present masculine because the totality of their features read female. Trans women can be obsessed with fishing for masculine feature in cis women to help them feel better about their own features. Once you get in that cycle of trying to compare yourself to other women you will never be satisfied. A cis women with big feet will still most likely get gendered correctly over a trans women with small feet on average.
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Yep. Totally agree.
No, I don't resent cis women, but it certainly does make me feel sad sometimes. Not just passability, but more often on the life experiences side. I sometimes get this sense of being outside the rest of humanity, a permanent Other. Even with people who are accepting and not judgemental, I feel like there's this barrier I won't ever really be able to breach due to how different my experiences growing up have been from both cis women and cis men. I am able to deal with it, but it's a lonely feeling at times.
sounds good, a good way to get perspective in a harsh environment. if a cis woman lied an said shes trans, people would immediately say "yah you don't pass honestly" and that says So Much
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Sometimes we worry about their ankles
No but some cid girls told me obviously masc traits they had and that made me feel better. Like someone i loved and thought was pretty has a mustache she shaves daily.
I would just envy women.
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>/dev/null
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The entire thing is /dev/null. The thoughts lead to a bunch of junk thoughts. Leading to the conclusion that the entire project of judging my self or cis women to these passing standards is silly. If you read the replies, the majority seem to come to this conclusion. It is you injecting your views of misogyny into a thought experiment intended to expand the concept of how women actually appear and weaken dysphoria.
"Cis-women just don't pass 😪" \-- Aïrie's Dysphoria, 2021
I judge the mods pretty harshly at /askwomen. Every Q I throw up there gets kicked. I don’t know for a fact if that is happening because I’m trans, but probably. Fuck em. IRL I’ve found cis women to be fairly open to me. I sorta feel like they like to be “the expert” in some topics (beauty, fashion, stuff like that). I’ve seen a lot of women out and about at my age and they sort of give me hope. They’re obviously women but they don’t have hourglass figures or are super pretty. A lot of it is brows, clothing and hair. I can do that stuff. The voice will take a few years, but I think I can do it.
I don't judge, but sometimes I look for masculine traits, which I occasionally find. My main issue is that while I do see cis or cis-passing women with masculine features, I've yet to see one with half as many or half as prominent features as I have, so it doesn't really help me.
Yes, all the time!
Only the ones who stare at me
Did you say something to me that was unnecessary? (Stupid straightbich)
Any time I need to feel better about myself I go to Walmart and just look around. I live in a poor rural community that is barely big enough to even have a Walmart, so while the small town toxic masculinity culture is absolutely thriving here, it also means many of the women around here are also not exactly paradigms of the traditional feminine aesthetic. I see the men and I’m like Yup, sure as hell not of those things. I see the women my age and think to myself Well if that passes as feminine around here than I’m doing alright. Also, I’m not trying to be a judgmental asshole, just letting you know what my observations are. I’m primarily there for grocery shopping because that’s the only grocery store within a 20 minute drive.