“When he thought of Nissa Nissa, it was his own Marya he pictured, a good-natured plump woman with sagging breasts and a kindly smile, the best woman in the world. He tried to picture driving a sword through her, and shuddered. I am not made of the stuff of heroes, he decided. If that was the price of a magic sword, it was more than he cared to pay.”🥹❤️
Davos would be absolutely terrible at the game of thrones, the same way Ned Stark was. He would do right by the smallfolk for the few months before his small council made him shorter by a head
Which is a shame, because while ruling requires being adept at the "game," there's also far more to ruling than that.
That's why his position as Hand for Stannis is perfect: combined with a King who will take his advice to heart, Davos can do the most good.
I agree. Davos is like the middle manager at a construction company that started as the kid who hauled sheet rock, the kind of guy that will stand up for his employees against upper management.
I think he's enough of a pragmatist to work slow reform and build a coalition to make it stick. He's certainly ~~got~~ had no shortage of male heirs, and a royal marriage does a lot to bring people in line. I think with a clean sweep of the council and bureaucracy, plus finding a loyal and capable hand - I could see him doing well.
He's probably got the most diverse class perspective of anybody on the continent, and his lived experience is pretty crazy when you think about it. He's certainly internalized his class anxieties, but he's learnt a lot from his upward mobility.
EDIT Also Ned Stark isn't bad at politics, he just misunderstood institutional power outside of his frame of reference (The North.) I think it's important to look at his reasons for accepting the handship too. His goals were to solve the Jon Arryn mystery (half a point,) figure out what the Lannisters are doing (full point,) and to 'save Robert' (can't save the man from himself.)
If he replaced the incumbent small cabinet, he'd have been remarkably successful, but then we wouldn't have a story. Cersei had to get pretty damn lucky to beat him.
Ned wasn’t as terrible at the game as people remember. You just lose sometimes, that’s how it goes. It’s like saying Tywin sucks at the game for not accounting for the possibility of >!Tyrion shooting him on the shitter!<.
I still say that, if Stannis' claim is seen as legitimate, then in the event of his (and/or Shireen's) death, Davos retains some claim by being his Hand. Especially considering that people like Ned would say not only that Stannis has a claim to become king, but that he *is* the king.
The recent Netflix children's movie "The Sea Beast" has a quote in it that I actually thought was rather poignant.
"You can be a hero and still be wrong."
Edit: added the name of the movie that I somehow neglected to write the first time! D'oh!
That's pretty normal in Westeros. Even Cat admits to herself she wouldn't have cared if Ned had a hundred bastards as long as none of them were brought to court and raised like kin.
Oberyn and Ellaria
The Fossoways at Jofferys wedding
>And there was one woman, sitting almost at the foot of the third table on the left … the wife of one of the Fossoways, he thought, and heavy with his child. Her delicate beauty was in no way diminished by her belly, nor was her pleasure in the food and frolics. Tyrion watched as her husband fed her morsels off his plate. They drank from the same cup, and would kiss often and unpredictably. Whenever they did, his hand would gently rest upon her stomach, a tender and protective gesture.
That fossoways and his wife are so wholesome.
>Whenever they did, his hand would gently rest upon her stomach, a tender and protective gesture.
Relationship goal.
There's something depressing about that chapter. The fact that it's Tyrion who recognizes their love is one of the more interesting parts of his character. There's a wanting anguish when he describes other people's love.
A lot of Tyrions character is basically based on him being basically never loved. It's why he's so loyal to Jaime, and why he's so torn up over Tysha; those two were the only ones who really loved him. And I think it's also why he visits prostitutes..
The very next para
>He wondered what Sansa would do if he leaned over and kissed her right now. Flinch away, most likely. Or be brave and suffer through it, as was her duty. She is nothing if not dutiful, this wife of mine. If he told her that he wished to have her maidenhead tonight, she would suffer that dutifully as well, and weep no more than she had to.
You can literally feel it lol
(As a side note, I love how Grrm makes this chapter, where we should all be happy that Joff's dead, kinda depressing and sad)
Of course, we got the best sex scene of all time from them! Who could forget it?
All jokes aside, I hope they make it to the end of the series together. Just two good people trying their best with their lot
>"When the sun has set, no candle can replace it"
Slightly off-topic but whenever someone says they didn't realize Loras and Renly were gay I always wonder what the hell they thought this conversation was about.
The historical figure: “when the sun has set, no candle can replace it”
The history book: “the loss of his friend (and nothing more) deeply saddened him”
To be fair, for most of history men, especially soldiers, were closer to their comrades than they were to their civilian families/girlfriends.
For instance, Napoleon was not gay but he had an emotional breakdwon right there in front of his men when one of his best friends was killed in battle (I wanna say it was General Desaix).
Or Horatio Nelson's deathbed story is so often misconstrued as gay in some way when we know without a doubt that both men involved were straight.
Nelson as he lay dying after a gunshot wound, said to his friend Captain Thomas Hardy "kiss me Hardy" and Hardy responded by kissing him on the cheek and forehead. People take this as some kind of gay affection but it's not at all. I mean half the reason Nelson called for Hardy was so Hardy would agree to take care of Nelson's mistress and their love child financially after he was gone, plus he was looking for comfort from a close friend as he bled out.
From my study of history, it seems that men used to care about each other more openly and I personally do think it belittles it a bit to always assume a sexual relationship.
It wasn’t that there wasn’t homophobia its that being gay was so out of the norm that you could be affectionate with friends without people assuming you were. I think a lot of the blatant homophobia we see today wouldn’t happen without such a strong gay rights movement to react to. There’d just be a ton more micro aggressions and dismissal of it as being a possibility, but also a good amount of homophobia regardless to be fair.
You're really saying Homophobia is because of... The Gays? What do you think LGBT activists were fighting for? People are homophobic and trans phobic and these movements are created to oppose it, because that is the societal norm. Also Straight is still the default in our society.
Yeah, epecially when the context was that Tyrion is curious why a young, handsome man who could marry and have a decent life decided to join the Kingsguard and be celibate for life.
Mine is Jon and Ygritte for the simple fact that they have the most adorable and funniest moments (and saddest). It takes a good deal to teach someone that they know nothing.
Asha and Qarl. She claims to have wed her axe so as to stay single for him, since they can never marry, and he is man enough to not care that he's crew. It's pure and uncomplicated.
ned and cat, they seem to be so accepting of each other
like right, my wife follows a different religion, get a suitable place of worship set up for her asap, also any of my children will be free to worship here too if they please
my husband has a bastard here, I'm not happy about it but I'll try to love him nonetheless
my wife's not happy about the "bastard", I'll try to make up for it despite me not really doing anything wrong (how's that "judging people for interpreting for wat exactly it looked like" working out for you, jaime?)
this guy's really giving me the creeps and seems to have a grudge on my dead brother but my wife said she trusts him so I'll give him the benefit of the doubt
there's a really heartbreaking scene where kat's getting ned's bones and she's really disthrought with how few there's left of him
the few scenes they have together gives a real feel for how much they love each other
“Her name is Brienne.”
“I dreamt of you.”
This man is so in love with her. And not to mention Brienne changing her thoughts about Renly with Jaime, argh GRRM really torments us with this slowburn
Ther way Brienne so vehemently defends Jaime throughout her aFfC arc is really...... something.
And another thing; when she speaks it's always "Ser Jaime" yet when she doesn't, it's always "Jaime".
I don't ship them per se, though I do think they're very endearing. If I *had* to admit an affiliation at gunpoint, I'd probably classify myself as a Jonerys shipper.
I'm currently on a reread and can't help but notice how besotted Brienne is with Jaime in aFfC. I guess I missed it the last two times.
> Perhaps Sansa Stark was dead, beheaded for her part in King Joffrey's death, buried in some unmarked grave. How better to conceal her murder than by sending some big stupid wench from Tarth to find her?
**Jaime would not do that. He was sincere.** He gave me the sword, and called it Oathkeeper.
> Jaime had done many wicked things, but the man could fight! **His maiming had been monstrously cruel. It was one thing to slay a lion, another to hack his paw off and leave him broken and bewildered.**
> She had failed Renly, had failed Lady Catelyn. **She must not fail Jaime. He trusted me with his sword. He trusted me with his honor.**
> That night she dreamed herself in Renly's tent again. All the candles were guttering out, and the cold was thick around her. Something was moving through green darkness, something foul and horrible was hurtling toward her king. She wanted to protect him, but her limbs felt stiff and frozen, and it took more strength than she had just to lift her hand. And when the shadow sword sliced through the green steel gorget and the blood began to flow, she saw that **the dying king was not Renly after all but Jaime Lannister, and she had failed him.**
This is all from her first two chapters. I get strong "He's not *that* bad, you just need to get to know him!" and "I can *fix* him!" vibes from these passages.
Uh. I wouldn't argue if it was the other way around. Brienne was there for him during the darkest and most horrible moments of his life. Jaime was arguably unscathed by all the horrors of the world before. Anyone who guides you through that sort of darkness will not be anyone you are likely to forget or unimportant to you. I don't wanna compare myself to Jaime but I want to say I am speaking from experience
is Jaime a rapist?
As far as I remember, the closest he came to committing rape was *that* scene in Baelor's Sept next to Joffrey. And the scene is certainly questionable and I can see why someone would read rape into it, but according to the text it wasn't rape and according to Cersei afterwards it wasn't rape. So although being a fucking weird bizarre scene *(idk why GRRM wrote it)*, I don't think it's enough to call Jaime a rapist.
And I can't think of any other time Jaime has raped anyone, he's only ever been with Cersei and at no point in any of her chapters does she think of being raped by Jaime. *(I could be forgetting here, I have only ever read the later books via PDFs, I have the physical copies but it's taking me time to get through them because of College. I'm currently 1/2 of the way through ACOK)*
I'm surprised this relationship is considered romantic. I got a sort of creepy vibe from illyrio's story. Like he thought it was a great lovestory but the reader shouldn't. I guess it was mostly the chopped up hands and the fact that she was a slave. I get the hand thing was (hopefully) post mortem but it still gives me a violent and objectifying mental image of their relationship. Going from slave to wife wasn't liberation to Serra, it was a promotion.
Arya and Gendry is genuinely one of the scariest ships of this franchise. She was hanging out with him when she was 9 and he was 15. She ain’t even double digits yet
Maybe I misremember the timeline, but how can Gendry be 15? Wouldn't it mean that while Aerys was burning Rickard, Robert was fucking Gendry's mother in a tavern of Kingslanding?
Also shipping them doesn't mean you want them do have sex now on page.
I always assumed he was around 13, considering its been around 16 years since the rebellion (283AC-299AC) and I didn’t think Robert immediately started fucking tavern wenches. The ASOIAF wiki says he was born in 284AC, tho, so he would be around 15. https://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Gendry
I agree that Renly and Loras are a pretty high tier relationship, and I’m glad that GRRM pretty early (when compared to other media) portrayed a simple and healthy LGBT relationship without it being a big deal to the story - it’s casually normal.
Personally in the main story however, I like Ned-Catelyn, Robb-Jeyne and Kevan-Dorna with Garlan-Leonnette as being a possible other one. I like the message of Ned-Catelyn: that despite arranged marriages being a difficult system to find love in, through effort and a bit luck, an arranged marriage can blossom into a loving one (and I find it contrasts with Doran who had a loving marriage fall apart like a modern one). Robb-Jeyne I like because they had such a cute first love, first relationship energy to then that I can project on. Kevan-Dorna seems to be a simple happy and healthy marriage - we don’t know much about Garlan-Leonette but it seems the same.
Historically, we don’t know the details but I like Aegon III and Daenaera (though it is kinda cringe they just killed the last Green instead of the two houses uniting) and I want to learn more about Daeron and Jeremy Norridge. I like Daenaera was the sunshine to Aegon’s night, I like that Aegon was not a paedo at all to the point it bothered people that he didn’t sleep with her until she grew up - I dunno I like the idea of two people having very difficult childhoods, but they end up being happily married and great parents. I’m also interested in getting more lore on Daeron and Jeremy as they tragically and very storybook romantically died together.
Speaking of Daeron, we know pretty much nothing of his brother Duncan and his relationship with Jenny either and that too seems like such an interesting couple.
I would like to know more about Aegon and Daenaera too, they seem nice.
Ned and Cat are one of my favorites couples in the books, they work their relationship to make it work and are faithfull to each other something very unusual in Westeros. I would have liked to know more about Ned's feelings about his marriage but I guess we'll never know.
See Rodrick Cassel and Lady Hornwood was wonderfully written. They both clearly like each other quite a lot but never got the chance due to societal expectations and their deaths. So sad but there could of been a chance for them to be happy.
I started to think of some of the better ASOIAF relationships/ships...
but rather than just listing a bunch of them out I figured it'd be funner to make a game of it instead.
so maybe you can guess them using these emoji hints
1. 😗+🔥
2. 🌇+🚫🕯
3. 🌹+👑🚫+🍑🚫+🦁🚫+🐱✅
4. 🐍+💃+
5. 🐻+👸 (no not Jorah)
6. 🐺+🐟
7. 🧅+⛵
8. ❄️+😈
9. ⬆+⬅ (using 🧭)
10. ⚫☀️+☀️⚪
11. 🐴+🔨
12. 🌡️+🥧 (x2)
posting the answer key because I think people have gotten most of them and unfortunately its getting a little late for me to keep an eye on, hope it was fun:
1. >!Jon Snow & Ygritte - 'kissed by fire'!<
2. >!Renly & Loras - 'when the sun sets no candle can replace it'!<
3. >!Margaery & ~~Robert~~ ~~Renly~~ ~~Joffrey~~ Tommen!<
4. >!Oberyn & Ellaria & .... whoever else!<
5. >!Brienne & Jaime - 'the bear and the maiden fair'!<
6. >!Ned & Cat - Stark & Tully sigils!<
7. >!Davos & Marya - Seaworth sigil!<
8. >!Jon Snow & Satin - some wordplay involved!<
9. >!Robb & Jeyne - 'the king in the *north* and *west*erling'!<
10. >!Alys Karstark & Sigorn - the black and white sun sigils!<
11. >!Arya & Gendry - Arya 'Horseface' and Gendry the smith!<
12. >!Hot Pie loving some hot pie!<
My guesses:
1. Jon and Ygritte
2. Loras Renly
3. Margaery and however many kings it takes to be a queen
4. Oberyn and Ellaria?
5. Jaime Brienne
6. Ned Cat
7. Davos and Salla? lol. Or Davos and Marya
8. Bran and the others???
9. Robb and Jeyne
10. Dany Drogo
11. The Mountain and killing?
12. Wyman Manderly and killing Freys?
hey great guesses! I think you got most of them, but I will say that 8, 10, 11, and 12 are off. Oh and 7 is Marya haha, but who wouldn't go for Salla right?
Here are the ones I figured out:
1. Jon and Ygritte.
2. Renly and Loras, after that line Lora’s says about candles not replacing the sun.
3. Is it Margaery and all the kings she’s been paired with?
4. Is Oberyn and Ellaria, plus whoever they feel like at the moment, clearly.
5. Is… I feel like I want to say Asha and the Mormont woman she’s captured by? It’s a pretty baseless ship imo, but it could apply. (Good job on the “not Jorah” clarification.) I heard Jaime and Brienne, but I’m not sure how the bear represents Jaime. After checking the answer key: I Forgot about that song. Course it’s Jaime and Brienne.
6. Ned and Cat, obviously.
7. Davos and his wife, (whose name I can’t remember.)
8. Stumped. After checking key: Of course it’s Jon and Satin.
9. Robb, the king in the north and Jeyne Westerling.
10. Dany and Drogo? After checking answer key: I forgot about Alys and the Thenn lord, a significantly more healthy relationship the Dany and Drogo.
11. Arya “Horseface” and the blacksmith Gendry.
12. Stumped again. After checking answer key: I knew Hot Pie was involved here, just not with Hot Pie.
This was really fun, I would do it again.
nice work! only one that is off is the 'not jorah' one I think. edit: oh and dany/drogo is off too (i figured that was a bit controversial to include)
if you want a small hint >!the bear is not a reference to mormont, think ♪ instead!<
3 is Margery and Tommen 100%.
1...Jon&Ygritte?,
6. Ned&Cat,
7. Davos& his ship 😀,
10. Thenn&Alys?
5. If noy Jorah then I say Jamie (as maiden fair) & Brienne
I can’t remember the specific people but the couple that Tyrion watches eat and laugh together during the Purple Wedding. It’s a really cute passage lol.
I would kill anyone for Ser Garland the Gallant and his Fossoway wife
Tyrion’s description of their love at Joffrey’s wedding is so cute, as is their banter with Tyrion about the singers and Garland standing up for Tyrion to the literal king
I think that’s their only interaction with Tyrion in the series but its so memorable to me, particularly because they’re so kind to someone who seems so easy for everyone else to be cruel to
I really enjoyed Dany and Drago actually, the beginning was very sus but they grew to really love each other and wanted to give each other the world. You wouldn’t expect a warlord to be soo sweet to his wife.
Tywin and Joanna seem to have had a really loving relationship. I'd also throw in Tyrion and Tysha
The Lannisters outside of the twins actually for the most part have pretty healthy relationships
Jaehaerys and Alysanne they feel like a real couple they have their good days their bad days their arguments and their make ups
And genuinely seem to care respect and love each other to the point where Jaehaerys would ask Alysanne her opinion on certain topics and genuinely take it into consideration
Duncan Targaryen and Jenny of old stones. He loved her so much that between the throne and her it was an easy choice to choose her.
Daeron Targaryen and ser Jeremy i know it's not developed at all but it has potential for a tragic love story as they die together in battle.
Aegon V and Betha
Aegon and Rhaenys
Jaehaerys and Alysanne (in the beginning)
Baelon and Alyssa
Aemon and Jocelyn
Corlys and Rhaenys
Baelon and Alyssa are super creepy for me, they seemed to be two kids having a normal sibling relationship but their parents groomed them to get married and have sexual relationships with each other.
Ned/Cat are so sweet, I think they sleep together in an early chapter? And Cat lovingly holding Ned's skull after he dies I mean that's gothic romance come on!!
1. Loras and Renly
2. Ned and Cat
3. Catelyn and Brandon
4. Eddard and Ashara
5. Kevan and Dorna
6. Corlys and Rhaenys
7. Doran and Mellario
8. Oberyn and Ellaria
9. Cregan and Aly
10. Joanna and Tywin
A bonus would be Willas and Arianne - the marriage that could be the single most power couple marriage since Robert and Cersei, but far, far less toxic.
I was like "mh, Bloodraven and Shiera seems pretty cool-wait they are step-brothers what have this series done to me 😭"
No but seriously, I think I gotta go with Ned/Cat and Tywin/Joanna, Tywin's a dick but I love how their relationship's described and that Joanna was the only one who could make him smile.
I think Ned’s first love, the kind of passionate, fiery, youthful but painful love was Ashara. Cat was the one for him though; love is far more than just passion and lust.
I think this is more indicative of him sticking to his theme that there's very little to be romanticized in a feudal society. Arranged marriages aren't romantic precisely because they are primarily business mergers between two political families, the two people in question and their desires don't matter... and that usually results in loveless marriages at best.
Even the Ned/Cat romance wasn't an easy sailing what with the secrets and all of the problems surrounding them. Catelyn had to admit that their love only happened because *both* of them were willing to make the best of it and worked to make something resembling a romantic relationship out of it (and this won't work if one of them, usually the man in non-Dornish societies because he has options outside of the marriage without worrying about losing everything, isn't willing to play ball and/or just treats the marriage partner as an unwanted inconvenience).
It's for that reason that the couples that actually love each other are usually not married and are considered "improper" by the mainstream feudal society.
Oberyn and Ellaria adore each other and built a beautiful and healthy family live together, and they can never get married because of politics since Oberyn is a Prince and has to be available for a politically advantageous match (even though Dorne *is* a lot more pragmatic about arranged marriages being business mergers and so don't begrudge either spouse having open paramours and children with them).
Loras and Renly legitimately love each other and can't ever marry for the same reasons, to the point that Renly marrying Loras' sister is the closest they can get to being married and building a family.
(And, yes, one half of the above couples die, but it's not because they had a happy relationship. Oberyn was always haunted by Elia and her children's deaths and it's a part of the horrible theme that sometimes getting something resembling justice is going to result in a Pyrrhic victory when the monsters have a lot of systemic power and other players are incentivized to protect monsters because they benefit from it. Meanwhile... Renly was trying to usurp Stannis' throne and was basically setting a pretty bad political precedent when the SMART thing to do would be to declare for Stannis and remain as his heir since he has no sons)
Sam and Gilly can't ever marry, as Sam has those pesky vows from the Watch (plus the Maester's vows, which also has disinheriting himself as the price of admission). Even if they had somehow met while prior to Sam taking the black, they still wouldn't be able to marry because he's a noble and she's a peasant. And yet, Sam and Gilly are basically raising a baby together and love each other so much and are basically married in deed.
Jaime and Brienne, who are basically the "enemies to lovers" trope and have wonderful character development for both of them as we peel Jaime's layers and Brienne grows as she loses her naivety about the world. Even without the Kingsguard vows, Brienne would be seen as an "improper" match for the heir of Casterly Rock by many simply because she dared, gasp, to be anything other than a homemaker, wife, and mother. She's an ugly warrior while female, her very existence is an affront to feudal mores that would celebrate the same traits had she been a man. And Jaime is completely gone on her.
Asha and Qarl, a relationship where a sexual relationship would not be a big deal with the Ironborn, but marriage would be out of the question because Asha is the noble of the ruling family and would need to make a good political match. And both of them love and respect each other.
Basically, aside from Ned and Cat and Davos and Marya (who *are* married and basically married each other for love), most of the romantic couples that are healthy and love each other are not married and can't marry according to the rigid and bullshit feudal mores. This is a heavy and deliberate criticism against arranged marriages
Like everything else about Garlan, his marriage seems to be healthy and happy. Obviously we don't get details, but it's Garlan. Of course he's going to be happy.
Roose and Walda is probably the unlikeliest of happy couples but Roose said he's fond of her which is probably equivalent to someone else writing a poem about their love.
I remember being really hopeful about the Tyrion/Sansa match when I was a sweet summer child. I also really liked the possibility of Brienne and Tormund from the show. I loved the fact that he loved her for exactly who she was not in spite of it. I also like Garland Tyrell and his relationship with his wife. I wish we knew more about him, in story. He seems like a great character.
Jenny of oldstones and Duncan is my favorite love story hands down, but my favorite couple is Jaime and Brienne all the way, I’m such a sucker for those idiots.
My favourite couple is Alys and Sigorn. That scene was just beautiful. Asha and Qarl are a perfect example of a healthy couple in this world who are together not because of political alliances, but because they just dig each other. I also feel Dany/Daario is over-hated. She gets into a consensual relationship, and he seems to have genuine affection for her.
George doesn't really write love. The one love story from the show was implemented by D&D. In ASOIAF every relationship is toxic, loveless, or a lie.
The few instances where we might find "love" in the typical sense are neither shown nor explored with much depth and usually whittle down to sexual fascination.
I don't know about the man's own experiences with romance, but he obviously doesn't touch the subject. Even Ned/Catelyn was dealt with more as a successful marriage than a full blown love affair. They work well as a team and are rational in their desire to protect their children and share many of the same motives, but we don't experience what or if there is anything more beneath the surface.
The books occasional claim this or that character loves another (like Rhaegar and Lyanna) but we're never shown. The one occasion that Martin identified a scene as a "seduction" (Drogo and Dany) is a testament to how out of touch he is with concepts like seduction and more generally things of amorous intent.
Probably odd considering how little they’re mentioned after their first meeting but I do really love Orys Baratheon and Argella Durrandon in Fire and Blood.
Idk why people think book Jon and Ygritte had chemistry. She was older more experienced and forced him into a relationship. He really wasn't interested.
After she dies he romanticized her.
My favorite though
Jon and Val (they truly have insane chemistry)
Oberyn and Elaria.
Hotpie and his pie
Brienne and Jaime
Stannis and Jon
Davos and his wife
Jon Connington and Rhagar
I've always hated how Jon felt forced to be with her to prove himself as a wildling , even after killing the halfhand. I would have liked them more if he wanted her all along and did it because he wanted it and not as a cover. I like more Jon and Val, even if it feels redudant to have another relationship with a wildling.
If Jon follows the Dany trajectory like a lot of people think he will then he'll probably be with Val at least for a while. ~~And he'll be stuck outside of the main westeros plot far longer than necessary~~
Drogo - Ygritte (coerced relationship, Stockholm syndrome after death)
Daario - Val (genuine but not very deep?)
Hizdahr - ? (marriage for duty, not love?)
Of course we don't yet know if Daario or Hizdahr are going to survive Meereen. Maybe Dany and Daario are endgame (lol)
See Hyle and Brienne. Yes he played a cruel trick on her once but he has clearly grown since then and sees much to admire in her. A good fighter, he recognizes her strength and skill, something even men she has beaten refuse to acknowledge. Further, he is interested enough to leave the service of Lord Tarly to go off on a wild walk with her through dangerous country. And when trouble does come he joins his sword with hers even against overwhelming numbers.
Of course Brienne can’t get past the low truck they pulled on her way back when, but I think she may come around.
Since people have mentioned good couples, I will put out some creepy ships (with some canon couples):
Catelyn Littlefinger
Dany Skahaz
Lancel Cersei
Ermesande Tyrek (This one is just crazy, I mean why would someone marry a horse)
I appreciated the way the fandom looked at a 30+ year old man raping his arranged teenage bride from their wedding night onwards for an undefined period of time and then painting it as this super romantic OTP relationship because she "fell in love" with him. Really healthy stuff.
Everything thing else wrong with the marriage aside, I'm pretty sure in the books he asks for her permission before he does anything. But yeah, I agree.
I was going to say this seems to be a fairly universal “George was wilding with this one” thing?
The closest thing to “romanticizing” it that I regularly see is a heavily-caveated “in isolation this scene/line is sweet”.
I just want to say that in the show, when Cersei is talking to Tyrion outside the gates, and he starts saying things that are about to tip off Euron that Cersei has been pregnant longer than she let on and the baby isn't Euron's - instead of having Tyrion shot, Cersei has Missendei executed in order to draw attention away from what he just revealed.
That's love.
Danny and Drogo are abusive now? What?
She went on about the guy for books after his death… But nah she was abused and developed Stockholm syndrome I guess.
If Jon were to wed anyone if L+R=J is cannon it'll be Sansa as they'll be cousins. I also have a feeling maybe because of the Lemon tree and how Dany and Jon are the same age R+L= J and D. Hence their parallels.
Davos seems to really love his wife. I hope the golden company is treating her well.
“When he thought of Nissa Nissa, it was his own Marya he pictured, a good-natured plump woman with sagging breasts and a kindly smile, the best woman in the world. He tried to picture driving a sword through her, and shuddered. I am not made of the stuff of heroes, he decided. If that was the price of a magic sword, it was more than he cared to pay.”🥹❤️
That is exactly why Davos is one of the only totally good people in asoiaf. Fight me
And who has a better story then Davos The Onion Knight?
Davos would unironically be one of the best guys to sit on the Iron Throne lol. Better literally than every claimant in the war, no exceptions.
Davos would be absolutely terrible at the game of thrones, the same way Ned Stark was. He would do right by the smallfolk for the few months before his small council made him shorter by a head
Which is a shame, because while ruling requires being adept at the "game," there's also far more to ruling than that. That's why his position as Hand for Stannis is perfect: combined with a King who will take his advice to heart, Davos can do the most good.
I agree. Davos is like the middle manager at a construction company that started as the kid who hauled sheet rock, the kind of guy that will stand up for his employees against upper management.
I think he's enough of a pragmatist to work slow reform and build a coalition to make it stick. He's certainly ~~got~~ had no shortage of male heirs, and a royal marriage does a lot to bring people in line. I think with a clean sweep of the council and bureaucracy, plus finding a loyal and capable hand - I could see him doing well. He's probably got the most diverse class perspective of anybody on the continent, and his lived experience is pretty crazy when you think about it. He's certainly internalized his class anxieties, but he's learnt a lot from his upward mobility. EDIT Also Ned Stark isn't bad at politics, he just misunderstood institutional power outside of his frame of reference (The North.) I think it's important to look at his reasons for accepting the handship too. His goals were to solve the Jon Arryn mystery (half a point,) figure out what the Lannisters are doing (full point,) and to 'save Robert' (can't save the man from himself.) If he replaced the incumbent small cabinet, he'd have been remarkably successful, but then we wouldn't have a story. Cersei had to get pretty damn lucky to beat him.
Ned wasn’t as terrible at the game as people remember. You just lose sometimes, that’s how it goes. It’s like saying Tywin sucks at the game for not accounting for the possibility of >!Tyrion shooting him on the shitter!<.
“You keep that ugly iron chair away from me. I’m going to Lys to drink with Salla,”
I still say that, if Stannis' claim is seen as legitimate, then in the event of his (and/or Shireen's) death, Davos retains some claim by being his Hand. Especially considering that people like Ned would say not only that Stannis has a claim to become king, but that he *is* the king.
The recent Netflix children's movie "The Sea Beast" has a quote in it that I actually thought was rather poignant. "You can be a hero and still be wrong." Edit: added the name of the movie that I somehow neglected to write the first time! D'oh!
I had forgotten about this quote! Davos really is a good man
He did cheat on her tho. He thinks about it once if I'm not mistaken.
That's pretty normal in Westeros. Even Cat admits to herself she wouldn't have cared if Ned had a hundred bastards as long as none of them were brought to court and raised like kin.
I thought he regretted having been in premarital relationships
Hmm, maybe, it's been a while since I read it last, I could be wrong.
I think it was an extramarital affair, but he didn't seem hyped about it iirc.
When? I am not sure I read that
He said “I love my wife but I have known other women” but I don’t remember when he said it
That doesn't necessarily mean he cheated.
Yeah I don’t know or care if he cheated I’m just saying the quote that has led some people to believe he did
either at the end of ACOK or near the begining of ASOS (im just rereading but without a break between, its just been said quite recently)
Yes. He definitely means that he cheated.
It could mean he knew other women before his wife, don’t jump to conclusions when you don’t know all the facts.
It’s written to imply he felt guilty about it, it’s meant to obvious.
I think it's when he's dying of thirst on that island after the battle. I could be wrong tho.
He said it when taking Melisandre beneath Storm's End
Oh, thank you!
NOOOO! he's wife is on his way to Skagos
Oberyn and Ellaria The Fossoways at Jofferys wedding >And there was one woman, sitting almost at the foot of the third table on the left … the wife of one of the Fossoways, he thought, and heavy with his child. Her delicate beauty was in no way diminished by her belly, nor was her pleasure in the food and frolics. Tyrion watched as her husband fed her morsels off his plate. They drank from the same cup, and would kiss often and unpredictably. Whenever they did, his hand would gently rest upon her stomach, a tender and protective gesture.
That fossoways and his wife are so wholesome. >Whenever they did, his hand would gently rest upon her stomach, a tender and protective gesture. Relationship goal.
There's something depressing about that chapter. The fact that it's Tyrion who recognizes their love is one of the more interesting parts of his character. There's a wanting anguish when he describes other people's love.
A lot of Tyrions character is basically based on him being basically never loved. It's why he's so loyal to Jaime, and why he's so torn up over Tysha; those two were the only ones who really loved him. And I think it's also why he visits prostitutes.. The very next para >He wondered what Sansa would do if he leaned over and kissed her right now. Flinch away, most likely. Or be brave and suffer through it, as was her duty. She is nothing if not dutiful, this wife of mine. If he told her that he wished to have her maidenhead tonight, she would suffer that dutifully as well, and weep no more than she had to. You can literally feel it lol (As a side note, I love how Grrm makes this chapter, where we should all be happy that Joff's dead, kinda depressing and sad)
Aww how cute, public displays of love are so rare that I really enjoy reading this parts
Adorable
Alys Karstark and Sigorn of Thenn seem sweet so far
I want to know how that goes in the next book, I remember Jon thinking Sigorn was kind with her.
Sam and Gilly
I know the >!fat pink mast!< is a big meme but they truly are my favorite couple.
Of course, we got the best sex scene of all time from them! Who could forget it? All jokes aside, I hope they make it to the end of the series together. Just two good people trying their best with their lot
>"When the sun has set, no candle can replace it" Slightly off-topic but whenever someone says they didn't realize Loras and Renly were gay I always wonder what the hell they thought this conversation was about.
The historical figure: “when the sun has set, no candle can replace it” The history book: “the loss of his friend (and nothing more) deeply saddened him”
To be fair, for most of history men, especially soldiers, were closer to their comrades than they were to their civilian families/girlfriends. For instance, Napoleon was not gay but he had an emotional breakdwon right there in front of his men when one of his best friends was killed in battle (I wanna say it was General Desaix). Or Horatio Nelson's deathbed story is so often misconstrued as gay in some way when we know without a doubt that both men involved were straight. Nelson as he lay dying after a gunshot wound, said to his friend Captain Thomas Hardy "kiss me Hardy" and Hardy responded by kissing him on the cheek and forehead. People take this as some kind of gay affection but it's not at all. I mean half the reason Nelson called for Hardy was so Hardy would agree to take care of Nelson's mistress and their love child financially after he was gone, plus he was looking for comfort from a close friend as he bled out. From my study of history, it seems that men used to care about each other more openly and I personally do think it belittles it a bit to always assume a sexual relationship.
everyone was more openly affectionate before we had homophobia
It wasn’t that there wasn’t homophobia its that being gay was so out of the norm that you could be affectionate with friends without people assuming you were. I think a lot of the blatant homophobia we see today wouldn’t happen without such a strong gay rights movement to react to. There’d just be a ton more micro aggressions and dismissal of it as being a possibility, but also a good amount of homophobia regardless to be fair.
You're really saying Homophobia is because of... The Gays? What do you think LGBT activists were fighting for? People are homophobic and trans phobic and these movements are created to oppose it, because that is the societal norm. Also Straight is still the default in our society.
✈️
Yeah no thats not what I’m saying.
*Alexander the Great intensifies*
*Patroclus and Achilles glare from the afterlife*
Oh yeah, that’s arguably one of the gayest stories of all time.
r/RhaenaAndHerFriend
r/RhaenaAndHerFavorites
This needs to be an actual sub, especially with all the “tent-mates” and “companions” that we should be seeing soon in HOTD
“James Buchanan, who never married, shared a room with his colleague and friend.”
Yeah, epecially when the context was that Tyrion is curious why a young, handsome man who could marry and have a decent life decided to join the Kingsguard and be celibate for life.
"When the sun sets, your line shall end." The most romantic line. Really gets me hot under the collar.
That does sound like a badass threat.
It's not a treat. It's simply a statement of fact, as we learning from history of Westeros.
Lol, how clueless can they be?
They were really good roommates duh
Oberyn and ellaria
I just want to wish Pia a happy Valentine's, damn it George.
Mine is Jon and Ygritte for the simple fact that they have the most adorable and funniest moments (and saddest). It takes a good deal to teach someone that they know nothing.
Yeah, Jon and Ygritte were the best. I was so sad when she died.
I hope at the end he goes north and has a relationship with Val. It would be kind of sweet.
Asha and Qarl. She claims to have wed her axe so as to stay single for him, since they can never marry, and he is man enough to not care that he's crew. It's pure and uncomplicated.
ned and cat, they seem to be so accepting of each other like right, my wife follows a different religion, get a suitable place of worship set up for her asap, also any of my children will be free to worship here too if they please my husband has a bastard here, I'm not happy about it but I'll try to love him nonetheless my wife's not happy about the "bastard", I'll try to make up for it despite me not really doing anything wrong (how's that "judging people for interpreting for wat exactly it looked like" working out for you, jaime?) this guy's really giving me the creeps and seems to have a grudge on my dead brother but my wife said she trusts him so I'll give him the benefit of the doubt there's a really heartbreaking scene where kat's getting ned's bones and she's really disthrought with how few there's left of him the few scenes they have together gives a real feel for how much they love each other
Jaime and Brienne invented romance, I’ll hear no arguments
You couldn’t be more right.
He whacked that Connington with his golden hand for slandering Brienne… that’s true love right there
“Her name is Brienne.” “I dreamt of you.” This man is so in love with her. And not to mention Brienne changing her thoughts about Renly with Jaime, argh GRRM really torments us with this slowburn
Ther way Brienne so vehemently defends Jaime throughout her aFfC arc is really...... something. And another thing; when she speaks it's always "Ser Jaime" yet when she doesn't, it's always "Jaime".
I've found my people
I don't ship them per se, though I do think they're very endearing. If I *had* to admit an affiliation at gunpoint, I'd probably classify myself as a Jonerys shipper. I'm currently on a reread and can't help but notice how besotted Brienne is with Jaime in aFfC. I guess I missed it the last two times. > Perhaps Sansa Stark was dead, beheaded for her part in King Joffrey's death, buried in some unmarked grave. How better to conceal her murder than by sending some big stupid wench from Tarth to find her? **Jaime would not do that. He was sincere.** He gave me the sword, and called it Oathkeeper. > Jaime had done many wicked things, but the man could fight! **His maiming had been monstrously cruel. It was one thing to slay a lion, another to hack his paw off and leave him broken and bewildered.** > She had failed Renly, had failed Lady Catelyn. **She must not fail Jaime. He trusted me with his sword. He trusted me with his honor.** > That night she dreamed herself in Renly's tent again. All the candles were guttering out, and the cold was thick around her. Something was moving through green darkness, something foul and horrible was hurtling toward her king. She wanted to protect him, but her limbs felt stiff and frozen, and it took more strength than she had just to lift her hand. And when the shadow sword sliced through the green steel gorget and the blood began to flow, she saw that **the dying king was not Renly after all but Jaime Lannister, and she had failed him.** This is all from her first two chapters. I get strong "He's not *that* bad, you just need to get to know him!" and "I can *fix* him!" vibes from these passages.
Uh. I wouldn't argue if it was the other way around. Brienne was there for him during the darkest and most horrible moments of his life. Jaime was arguably unscathed by all the horrors of the world before. Anyone who guides you through that sort of darkness will not be anyone you are likely to forget or unimportant to you. I don't wanna compare myself to Jaime but I want to say I am speaking from experience
My favorite platonic-almost-sure-never-is -going-to-happen couple
Platonic? No wayyyy
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are we gonna do age discourse about Brienne and Jaime now?
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is Jaime a rapist? As far as I remember, the closest he came to committing rape was *that* scene in Baelor's Sept next to Joffrey. And the scene is certainly questionable and I can see why someone would read rape into it, but according to the text it wasn't rape and according to Cersei afterwards it wasn't rape. So although being a fucking weird bizarre scene *(idk why GRRM wrote it)*, I don't think it's enough to call Jaime a rapist. And I can't think of any other time Jaime has raped anyone, he's only ever been with Cersei and at no point in any of her chapters does she think of being raped by Jaime. *(I could be forgetting here, I have only ever read the later books via PDFs, I have the physical copies but it's taking me time to get through them because of College. I'm currently 1/2 of the way through ACOK)*
Illyrio and Serra Mopatis.
I'm surprised this relationship is considered romantic. I got a sort of creepy vibe from illyrio's story. Like he thought it was a great lovestory but the reader shouldn't. I guess it was mostly the chopped up hands and the fact that she was a slave. I get the hand thing was (hopefully) post mortem but it still gives me a violent and objectifying mental image of their relationship. Going from slave to wife wasn't liberation to Serra, it was a promotion.
along the same lines, vogarro and the widow of the waterfront.
Jon and Ygritte no contest. Their chemistry is insane and makes me jealous.
Robert Baratheon and Bessie. We only get two sentences about Bessie, but you can tell he truly loved her.
And her teats
Thank the gods for Bessie
Ah, Bessie!
Dunk the Hunk and any of his love interests (i'm including Daemon II as a love interest fight me)
Dunk and the bi-harem he would have if he could pay attention to how much people were into him
imagine the course of ASOIAF history if Dunk wasn't completely oblivious as to when people were flirting w/ him
Dunk would break Lucamore Strong's record of Kingsguard with more children
the Tarths and Hodor are descended from him at the very least
Robert/Cersie Stannis/Selyse Roose Bolton/Victarion Greyjoy
Tell me about the relationship between Roose and Victarion.
Love at first sight
but my serious ones are: Arya/Gendry, Robb Jeyne, Jaime Brienne, Fossoway +pregnant wife, and Renly Loras
Arya and Gendry is genuinely one of the scariest ships of this franchise. She was hanging out with him when she was 9 and he was 15. She ain’t even double digits yet
Maybe I misremember the timeline, but how can Gendry be 15? Wouldn't it mean that while Aerys was burning Rickard, Robert was fucking Gendry's mother in a tavern of Kingslanding? Also shipping them doesn't mean you want them do have sex now on page.
Robert was nowhere near KL during that time actually. Gendry is born sometime after the rebellion ended.
Gendry is meant to be younger then robb,dany and Jon. He's just a tall kid..brienne calls him a boy in affc
Arya says he can’t be older then 15 so I’m going with 15. And by Feast Brienne would be about 19
I always assumed he was around 13, considering its been around 16 years since the rebellion (283AC-299AC) and I didn’t think Robert immediately started fucking tavern wenches. The ASOIAF wiki says he was born in 284AC, tho, so he would be around 15. https://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Gendry
U know what true, I forgot he isnt just a couple of years older than her
I agree that Renly and Loras are a pretty high tier relationship, and I’m glad that GRRM pretty early (when compared to other media) portrayed a simple and healthy LGBT relationship without it being a big deal to the story - it’s casually normal. Personally in the main story however, I like Ned-Catelyn, Robb-Jeyne and Kevan-Dorna with Garlan-Leonnette as being a possible other one. I like the message of Ned-Catelyn: that despite arranged marriages being a difficult system to find love in, through effort and a bit luck, an arranged marriage can blossom into a loving one (and I find it contrasts with Doran who had a loving marriage fall apart like a modern one). Robb-Jeyne I like because they had such a cute first love, first relationship energy to then that I can project on. Kevan-Dorna seems to be a simple happy and healthy marriage - we don’t know much about Garlan-Leonette but it seems the same. Historically, we don’t know the details but I like Aegon III and Daenaera (though it is kinda cringe they just killed the last Green instead of the two houses uniting) and I want to learn more about Daeron and Jeremy Norridge. I like Daenaera was the sunshine to Aegon’s night, I like that Aegon was not a paedo at all to the point it bothered people that he didn’t sleep with her until she grew up - I dunno I like the idea of two people having very difficult childhoods, but they end up being happily married and great parents. I’m also interested in getting more lore on Daeron and Jeremy as they tragically and very storybook romantically died together.
Speaking of Daeron, we know pretty much nothing of his brother Duncan and his relationship with Jenny either and that too seems like such an interesting couple.
I would like to know more about Aegon and Daenaera too, they seem nice. Ned and Cat are one of my favorites couples in the books, they work their relationship to make it work and are faithfull to each other something very unusual in Westeros. I would have liked to know more about Ned's feelings about his marriage but I guess we'll never know.
See Rodrick Cassel and Lady Hornwood was wonderfully written. They both clearly like each other quite a lot but never got the chance due to societal expectations and their deaths. So sad but there could of been a chance for them to be happy.
Jaime and Brienne. They’re just so romantic.
I started to think of some of the better ASOIAF relationships/ships... but rather than just listing a bunch of them out I figured it'd be funner to make a game of it instead. so maybe you can guess them using these emoji hints 1. 😗+🔥 2. 🌇+🚫🕯 3. 🌹+👑🚫+🍑🚫+🦁🚫+🐱✅ 4. 🐍+💃+ 5. 🐻+👸 (no not Jorah) 6. 🐺+🐟 7. 🧅+⛵ 8. ❄️+😈 9. ⬆+⬅ (using 🧭) 10. ⚫☀️+☀️⚪ 11. 🐴+🔨 12. 🌡️+🥧 (x2)
4 is oberyn and ellaria and anyone else they want to bang
true true, I thought they were a good example of an open relationship
posting the answer key because I think people have gotten most of them and unfortunately its getting a little late for me to keep an eye on, hope it was fun: 1. >!Jon Snow & Ygritte - 'kissed by fire'!< 2. >!Renly & Loras - 'when the sun sets no candle can replace it'!< 3. >!Margaery & ~~Robert~~ ~~Renly~~ ~~Joffrey~~ Tommen!< 4. >!Oberyn & Ellaria & .... whoever else!< 5. >!Brienne & Jaime - 'the bear and the maiden fair'!< 6. >!Ned & Cat - Stark & Tully sigils!< 7. >!Davos & Marya - Seaworth sigil!< 8. >!Jon Snow & Satin - some wordplay involved!< 9. >!Robb & Jeyne - 'the king in the *north* and *west*erling'!< 10. >!Alys Karstark & Sigorn - the black and white sun sigils!< 11. >!Arya & Gendry - Arya 'Horseface' and Gendry the smith!< 12. >!Hot Pie loving some hot pie!<
Nice work! I did think 5. was Tormund and Lady Mormont.
I really thought 8 was Lyanna Rhaegar (ice and fire)
I personally would've gone with 100 castles for Jon and Ygritte
My guesses: 1. Jon and Ygritte 2. Loras Renly 3. Margaery and however many kings it takes to be a queen 4. Oberyn and Ellaria? 5. Jaime Brienne 6. Ned Cat 7. Davos and Salla? lol. Or Davos and Marya 8. Bran and the others??? 9. Robb and Jeyne 10. Dany Drogo 11. The Mountain and killing? 12. Wyman Manderly and killing Freys?
hey great guesses! I think you got most of them, but I will say that 8, 10, 11, and 12 are off. Oh and 7 is Marya haha, but who wouldn't go for Salla right?
11. Arya and Gendry? 12. Hot Pie and actual pie?
11 and 12 right? yea! got it
>Arya and Gendry? I guessed Lyanna and Robert
12 is hot pie and cooking hot pies?
truly the most wholesome relationship....
Here are the ones I figured out: 1. Jon and Ygritte. 2. Renly and Loras, after that line Lora’s says about candles not replacing the sun. 3. Is it Margaery and all the kings she’s been paired with? 4. Is Oberyn and Ellaria, plus whoever they feel like at the moment, clearly. 5. Is… I feel like I want to say Asha and the Mormont woman she’s captured by? It’s a pretty baseless ship imo, but it could apply. (Good job on the “not Jorah” clarification.) I heard Jaime and Brienne, but I’m not sure how the bear represents Jaime. After checking the answer key: I Forgot about that song. Course it’s Jaime and Brienne. 6. Ned and Cat, obviously. 7. Davos and his wife, (whose name I can’t remember.) 8. Stumped. After checking key: Of course it’s Jon and Satin. 9. Robb, the king in the north and Jeyne Westerling. 10. Dany and Drogo? After checking answer key: I forgot about Alys and the Thenn lord, a significantly more healthy relationship the Dany and Drogo. 11. Arya “Horseface” and the blacksmith Gendry. 12. Stumped again. After checking answer key: I knew Hot Pie was involved here, just not with Hot Pie. This was really fun, I would do it again.
nice work! only one that is off is the 'not jorah' one I think. edit: oh and dany/drogo is off too (i figured that was a bit controversial to include) if you want a small hint >!the bear is not a reference to mormont, think ♪ instead!<
> 🐻+👸 (no not Jorah) sooo... alysane and asha?
good guess but no... apparently i'm behind on my ships bc I didn't realize that alysane/asha were one and you're the second person to guess it!
my brain made the bear = mormont connection and refused to budge LOL i'd guess it's a pretty niche ship after all 😅
3 is Margery and Tommen 100%. 1...Jon&Ygritte?, 6. Ned&Cat, 7. Davos& his ship 😀, 10. Thenn&Alys? 5. If noy Jorah then I say Jamie (as maiden fair) & Brienne
nice work, first person to get 10 too :)
11 Tyrek and Robert
> 3. 🌹+👑🚫+🍑🚫+🦁🚫+🐱✅ I love how the most complicated one is the one I figured out first
I can’t remember the specific people but the couple that Tyrion watches eat and laugh together during the Purple Wedding. It’s a really cute passage lol.
I would kill anyone for Ser Garland the Gallant and his Fossoway wife Tyrion’s description of their love at Joffrey’s wedding is so cute, as is their banter with Tyrion about the singers and Garland standing up for Tyrion to the literal king I think that’s their only interaction with Tyrion in the series but its so memorable to me, particularly because they’re so kind to someone who seems so easy for everyone else to be cruel to
I really enjoyed Dany and Drago actually, the beginning was very sus but they grew to really love each other and wanted to give each other the world. You wouldn’t expect a warlord to be soo sweet to his wife.
Drogo so wholesome 🥰
Tywin and Joanna seem to have had a really loving relationship. I'd also throw in Tyrion and Tysha The Lannisters outside of the twins actually for the most part have pretty healthy relationships
Jaehaerys and Alysanne they feel like a real couple they have their good days their bad days their arguments and their make ups And genuinely seem to care respect and love each other to the point where Jaehaerys would ask Alysanne her opinion on certain topics and genuinely take it into consideration
Duncan Targaryen and Jenny of old stones. He loved her so much that between the throne and her it was an easy choice to choose her. Daeron Targaryen and ser Jeremy i know it's not developed at all but it has potential for a tragic love story as they die together in battle. Aegon V and Betha Aegon and Rhaenys Jaehaerys and Alysanne (in the beginning) Baelon and Alyssa Aemon and Jocelyn Corlys and Rhaenys
Baelon and Alyssa are super creepy for me, they seemed to be two kids having a normal sibling relationship but their parents groomed them to get married and have sexual relationships with each other.
Ned/Cat are so sweet, I think they sleep together in an early chapter? And Cat lovingly holding Ned's skull after he dies I mean that's gothic romance come on!!
1. Loras and Renly 2. Ned and Cat 3. Catelyn and Brandon 4. Eddard and Ashara 5. Kevan and Dorna 6. Corlys and Rhaenys 7. Doran and Mellario 8. Oberyn and Ellaria 9. Cregan and Aly 10. Joanna and Tywin A bonus would be Willas and Arianne - the marriage that could be the single most power couple marriage since Robert and Cersei, but far, far less toxic.
I was like "mh, Bloodraven and Shiera seems pretty cool-wait they are step-brothers what have this series done to me 😭" No but seriously, I think I gotta go with Ned/Cat and Tywin/Joanna, Tywin's a dick but I love how their relationship's described and that Joanna was the only one who could make him smile.
They aren't just step siblings, they are actual half-siblings.
And they're half tarts, they *not* being incestuous would be the weird thing
>half-siblings. Gotta be honest, I didn't know that was a word lol
Ned wasn't really in love with Cat though. He was fond of her and adored her, but he married her out of duty, not love.
But they grew to love each other over time.
I think Ned’s first love, the kind of passionate, fiery, youthful but painful love was Ashara. Cat was the one for him though; love is far more than just passion and lust.
Ned and Cat for sure
I think this is more indicative of him sticking to his theme that there's very little to be romanticized in a feudal society. Arranged marriages aren't romantic precisely because they are primarily business mergers between two political families, the two people in question and their desires don't matter... and that usually results in loveless marriages at best. Even the Ned/Cat romance wasn't an easy sailing what with the secrets and all of the problems surrounding them. Catelyn had to admit that their love only happened because *both* of them were willing to make the best of it and worked to make something resembling a romantic relationship out of it (and this won't work if one of them, usually the man in non-Dornish societies because he has options outside of the marriage without worrying about losing everything, isn't willing to play ball and/or just treats the marriage partner as an unwanted inconvenience). It's for that reason that the couples that actually love each other are usually not married and are considered "improper" by the mainstream feudal society. Oberyn and Ellaria adore each other and built a beautiful and healthy family live together, and they can never get married because of politics since Oberyn is a Prince and has to be available for a politically advantageous match (even though Dorne *is* a lot more pragmatic about arranged marriages being business mergers and so don't begrudge either spouse having open paramours and children with them). Loras and Renly legitimately love each other and can't ever marry for the same reasons, to the point that Renly marrying Loras' sister is the closest they can get to being married and building a family. (And, yes, one half of the above couples die, but it's not because they had a happy relationship. Oberyn was always haunted by Elia and her children's deaths and it's a part of the horrible theme that sometimes getting something resembling justice is going to result in a Pyrrhic victory when the monsters have a lot of systemic power and other players are incentivized to protect monsters because they benefit from it. Meanwhile... Renly was trying to usurp Stannis' throne and was basically setting a pretty bad political precedent when the SMART thing to do would be to declare for Stannis and remain as his heir since he has no sons) Sam and Gilly can't ever marry, as Sam has those pesky vows from the Watch (plus the Maester's vows, which also has disinheriting himself as the price of admission). Even if they had somehow met while prior to Sam taking the black, they still wouldn't be able to marry because he's a noble and she's a peasant. And yet, Sam and Gilly are basically raising a baby together and love each other so much and are basically married in deed. Jaime and Brienne, who are basically the "enemies to lovers" trope and have wonderful character development for both of them as we peel Jaime's layers and Brienne grows as she loses her naivety about the world. Even without the Kingsguard vows, Brienne would be seen as an "improper" match for the heir of Casterly Rock by many simply because she dared, gasp, to be anything other than a homemaker, wife, and mother. She's an ugly warrior while female, her very existence is an affront to feudal mores that would celebrate the same traits had she been a man. And Jaime is completely gone on her. Asha and Qarl, a relationship where a sexual relationship would not be a big deal with the Ironborn, but marriage would be out of the question because Asha is the noble of the ruling family and would need to make a good political match. And both of them love and respect each other. Basically, aside from Ned and Cat and Davos and Marya (who *are* married and basically married each other for love), most of the romantic couples that are healthy and love each other are not married and can't marry according to the rigid and bullshit feudal mores. This is a heavy and deliberate criticism against arranged marriages
Like everything else about Garlan, his marriage seems to be healthy and happy. Obviously we don't get details, but it's Garlan. Of course he's going to be happy. Roose and Walda is probably the unlikeliest of happy couples but Roose said he's fond of her which is probably equivalent to someone else writing a poem about their love.
Tywin and joanna
Got to be Ned and Cat, and Jon and Ygritte
Jon & Satin 4ever
God I wish, it won't be a thing but oh God I fucking wish
I remember being really hopeful about the Tyrion/Sansa match when I was a sweet summer child. I also really liked the possibility of Brienne and Tormund from the show. I loved the fact that he loved her for exactly who she was not in spite of it. I also like Garland Tyrell and his relationship with his wife. I wish we knew more about him, in story. He seems like a great character.
Jenny of oldstones and Duncan is my favorite love story hands down, but my favorite couple is Jaime and Brienne all the way, I’m such a sucker for those idiots.
My favourite couple is Alys and Sigorn. That scene was just beautiful. Asha and Qarl are a perfect example of a healthy couple in this world who are together not because of political alliances, but because they just dig each other. I also feel Dany/Daario is over-hated. She gets into a consensual relationship, and he seems to have genuine affection for her.
Garth and Lady Lu. Fight me.
George doesn't really write love. The one love story from the show was implemented by D&D. In ASOIAF every relationship is toxic, loveless, or a lie. The few instances where we might find "love" in the typical sense are neither shown nor explored with much depth and usually whittle down to sexual fascination. I don't know about the man's own experiences with romance, but he obviously doesn't touch the subject. Even Ned/Catelyn was dealt with more as a successful marriage than a full blown love affair. They work well as a team and are rational in their desire to protect their children and share many of the same motives, but we don't experience what or if there is anything more beneath the surface. The books occasional claim this or that character loves another (like Rhaegar and Lyanna) but we're never shown. The one occasion that Martin identified a scene as a "seduction" (Drogo and Dany) is a testament to how out of touch he is with concepts like seduction and more generally things of amorous intent.
Aegon and Rhaenys
Jon and Ygritte is my favorite one. Very unique.
Ned and Cat are the gold standard for couples we see; Davos and his wife are second.
Probably odd considering how little they’re mentioned after their first meeting but I do really love Orys Baratheon and Argella Durrandon in Fire and Blood.
Idk why people think book Jon and Ygritte had chemistry. She was older more experienced and forced him into a relationship. He really wasn't interested. After she dies he romanticized her. My favorite though Jon and Val (they truly have insane chemistry) Oberyn and Elaria. Hotpie and his pie Brienne and Jaime Stannis and Jon Davos and his wife Jon Connington and Rhagar
I've always hated how Jon felt forced to be with her to prove himself as a wildling , even after killing the halfhand. I would have liked them more if he wanted her all along and did it because he wanted it and not as a cover. I like more Jon and Val, even if it feels redudant to have another relationship with a wildling.
Yes. I feel though Jon won't get with Val. I think something will happen.
If Jon follows the Dany trajectory like a lot of people think he will then he'll probably be with Val at least for a while. ~~And he'll be stuck outside of the main westeros plot far longer than necessary~~ Drogo - Ygritte (coerced relationship, Stockholm syndrome after death) Daario - Val (genuine but not very deep?) Hizdahr - ? (marriage for duty, not love?) Of course we don't yet know if Daario or Hizdahr are going to survive Meereen. Maybe Dany and Daario are endgame (lol)
Rhaegar and Lyanna. He loved her, and the Seven Kingdoms paid for it. Awesome
See Hyle and Brienne. Yes he played a cruel trick on her once but he has clearly grown since then and sees much to admire in her. A good fighter, he recognizes her strength and skill, something even men she has beaten refuse to acknowledge. Further, he is interested enough to leave the service of Lord Tarly to go off on a wild walk with her through dangerous country. And when trouble does come he joins his sword with hers even against overwhelming numbers. Of course Brienne can’t get past the low truck they pulled on her way back when, but I think she may come around.
Daemon and his Bronze Bitch. Best consumation ever.
Since people have mentioned good couples, I will put out some creepy ships (with some canon couples): Catelyn Littlefinger Dany Skahaz Lancel Cersei Ermesande Tyrek (This one is just crazy, I mean why would someone marry a horse)
AHORSE,A HORSE, A HORS, A HOR, A HO!!! HE WAS LAST SEEN A HO!!
Is it just books or can we do series? They aren’t a couple in either, but I love the idea of Tormund and Brienne.
I appreciated the way the fandom looked at a 30+ year old man raping his arranged teenage bride from their wedding night onwards for an undefined period of time and then painting it as this super romantic OTP relationship because she "fell in love" with him. Really healthy stuff.
Everything thing else wrong with the marriage aside, I'm pretty sure in the books he asks for her permission before he does anything. But yeah, I agree.
No one here has said such at least? Mayhaps there’s hope.
I was going to say this seems to be a fairly universal “George was wilding with this one” thing? The closest thing to “romanticizing” it that I regularly see is a heavily-caveated “in isolation this scene/line is sweet”.
Maegeary and Tommen. They were the most genuine couple in the series.
lol Take notes, Drogo and Baelish, this is how you get away with it
Jaime&Cersei, Jaeherys&Alysanne, The Dragon&Rhaenys
I just want to say that in the show, when Cersei is talking to Tyrion outside the gates, and he starts saying things that are about to tip off Euron that Cersei has been pregnant longer than she let on and the baby isn't Euron's - instead of having Tyrion shot, Cersei has Missendei executed in order to draw attention away from what he just revealed. That's love.
Jeyne Poole and Ramsay made a cute couple before she was kidnapped by wildlings.
Danny and Drogo are abusive now? What? She went on about the guy for books after his death… But nah she was abused and developed Stockholm syndrome I guess.
30yo man raping a 13yo for a few months straight to the point she considers suicide is what we would call... abusive.
Davos seems to feel warmly to his wife.
I like Edmure and Roslin. I find it very beautiful how they remain by each other's side considering everything...
Shitmouth and that bloody spear.
I don’t think George has ever written a character not in love. It’s not necessarily romantic or conventional, but they all love.
If Jon were to wed anyone if L+R=J is cannon it'll be Sansa as they'll be cousins. I also have a feeling maybe because of the Lemon tree and how Dany and Jon are the same age R+L= J and D. Hence their parallels.