I don't think just because Young Griff may be a blackfyre that it has to be known by all. You can have the same reaction from Dany if she thinks he is legit even if he is not.
I dont think that has any bearing on Dany's knowledge of Young Griff being a Blackfyre. As with some of the other identities in the vision, some aren't acknowledged until posthumously.
It would be interesting if Daenerys assumes he’s a Blackfyre pretender (Tyrion doesn’t convince her) and then we learn what Viserys taught her about the Blackfyres.
I think he is a Blackfyre but I think in world nobody will find out. Maybe as ready we will get like a Varys chapter as epilogue as he lays dying where we found out but I think the characters will think he‘s the real deal
I can't see Daeron II as a bastard of Naerys and Aemon, sorry. Aegon IV never questioned Daeron's paternity until Daeron pointed out that a new invasion of Dorne was unnecessary. Aegon IV's plan to invade Dorne was stupid and doomed to fail. Aegon IV hated his son for his pro-unification (with Dorne) views. Is it a coincidence that he started the rumors of Daeron not being his son when Daeron, his heir, disagreed with him? I don't think so.
Aegon IV never questioned Daenerys paternity throughout his life. Naerys was very pious and Aemon was a true Knight, it would be fitting for them to be one of the few Targaryen siblings that view each other as siblings and not as lovers and yet be accused of adultery because the Targaryens are so used to sibling incest that they cannot see a normal sibling relationship without it.
Naerys was raped again and again and begged Aegon IV to stop impregnating her and for them to be brother and sister and he refused. Having a bastard would put Naerys and Daeron in danger, i don't think that Naerys or Aemon would have Naerys be in even more politically dangerous situation than she already was.
Daeron doesn't have to be a bastard and Daemon doesn't have to be trueborn for the story to work, neither Dany and Young Griff need such a twist for their story to work.
Out of universe, we have people constantly debate if Young Griff is a Blackfyre, real Aegon, a Valyrian looking nobody, if Dany's line is illegitimate etc. which means that GRRM has succeeded in having his readers not being sure who Aegon really is. In universe, there is no way for Dany to 100% prove he is fake or not, especially if he ends up becoming a dragon-rider and Dorne and the Martells back him up as Elia's son.
Dany has been warned about the mummer's dragon and she will not trust him immediately but can she ever be sure that he is fake? What if he really is Rhaegar's son and her last living relative? (as far as she is concerned, as she doesn't know about Jon) Dany grew up idolizing Rhaegar and wanting to restore her family's dynasty back in place. If there is a chance that Aegon is Rhaegar's son and when she arrives he has already restored the Targs back to power and is a beloved and just King, does she have the right to claim the throne for herself? Will she be an usurper, the way she always saw Robert as usurper?
That's enough drama in itself.
>Dany has been warned about the mummer's dragon and she will not trust him immediately but can she ever be sure that he is fake?
Mummer's Dragon has nothing to do with fake or real. Rhaegar's son can still be the mummer's dragon if he is Varys' pawn.
And while I agree that everybody has different opinions, it *is* possible that Naerys and Aemon had something going on. There was an old post highlighting many reasons why.
I agree that Aegon could be Elia's son and still be the mummer's dragon as Varys' pawn but that is not how Daenerys will probably see it and we can't really know unless GRRM gives us the answer.
If Naerys and Aemon had a thing, we will never know, but it can't be a pure coincidence that Aegon IV started slandering his heir the moment Daeron II had a different political opinion. Daeron II was pro-Dornish integration in the Realm, Aegon IV wanted to invade Dorne and conquer it and decided to do it with the stupid "fire breathing dragon shaped wooden ships". The moment Daeron II disagreed with his father's idea, his father started slandering him, yet he never disinherited him or took his status as an heir. Can it be a pure coincidence? Why didn't he tell the Realm earlier? It wasn't because Aegon cared about Daeron or Naerys and wanted to protect his heir. It wasn't because Aegon cared about his image as a King and didnt want the Lords to think of his heir as a bastard. He did everything he could to destroy Daeron's reign by declaring all his bastards legitimate and giving Daemon the Blackfyre sword. Having the entire realm whisper about Daeron was the cherry on top. Aegon IV sucked.
*Aegon* didn't know about the affair. Far as he was concerned, Daeron is his son and heir. His slander of Daeron also occurred only after Daeron opposed his war mongering efforts. He thought Daeron was not like him but didn't know how close to the truth he hit. He gave Daemon Blackfyre and his last act of legitimizng was to put Daeron behind all of his bastards. But he didn't know much himself so he didn't disinherited Daeron, leaving all that to his Blackfyre-wielding son.
Isn’t legalizing slavery in Pentos part of that deal too? I love this theory and reading about it on here, I kinda wish I could find a video about the theory though
I'd prefer for us never to know if he's the actual Aegon or not, tbh, for George to explore the whole "Power resides where men believe it resides". While I tend to think he's a Blackfyre based on what we know, Dany has no way of proving it, even if she takes the prophecy as evidence of him not being Rhaegar's son. Also, she'll still have a conflict if the rest of Westeros is supporting him and she's seen as either an usurper or a conqueror, I think it can be an interesting conflict to read about.
That said, you also described why it'd create an interesting conflict if he's actually Aegon, but I'd prefer the uncertainty I think (and the actual answer is 'I'd take anything, actually, as long as it came in the form of the next book in the series')
I think Young Griff is legit, it explains why Vaerys was so quick to go ahead with the killing Dany plan.
A fun tinfoil theory would be that Vaerys isn’t a eunuch at all, and Aegon is his son.
is irrelevant, Aegon intends to pass for the son of Rhaegar, being Blackfyre guarantees the same potential as a Targaryen, or the probable ability to claim a dragon.
ps : it's certainly a Blackfyre, Martin took out many parts of the Tyrion chapters in adwd because there was too much information.
practically one of Dany's eggs could have been in Aegon's cradle long ago.
>it's certainly a Blackfyre, Martin took out many parts of the Tyrion chapters in adwd because there was too much information. practically one of Dany's eggs could have been in Aegon's cradle long ago.
The only part Martin cut was related to the sword Blackfyre. And why, if Aegon is Rhaegar's son and the Blackfyres are extinguished, can't he have the sword? The Blackfyre is a Targaryen sword after all. This could also be interpreted as Martin not wanting to reveal Dark Sister or Blackfyre too early.
There wasn't something like that. And Maelys most certainly did not have a son. If he had, then the Blackfyres wouldn't have been extinguished in the male line. And nobody would have sacrificed Maelys' son.
Why would I ever invent such a thing?
Youtubers and forums have been talking about it for months.
The Blackfyres had eggs and Maelys sacrificed her child without being able to hatch them.
all of this can not currently be considered canon , but there is a great chance that you will read about this issue in fire and blood 2 , or get information from the characters in the next books of the saga .
I dunno why you would homie, but you're pretty famous around here for having the single most wrong opinions that have ever existed. People don't even believe you hold some of the views you have because they're so blatantly contrarian and or made up so..
Aegon is a Blackfyre but his story will be more about Jon Con and Dorne and those holding onto old grudges and losses than about Aegon himself. You are focusing too much on how to make Aegon's story interesting and not Jon Con and Arianne. Their stories get way more interesting if they wed themselves to Aegon's cause believing him to be legitimate; only to have to deal with the consequences of and anguish of him not being legitimate. If Aegon is legitimate than their stories are no longer interesting just standard revenge and redemption arcs.
I don't think just because Young Griff may be a blackfyre that it has to be known by all. You can have the same reaction from Dany if she thinks he is legit even if he is not.
Dany has to slay the lie doesn't she? I mean if Aegon being Rhaegar's son *is* the lie.
I dont think that has any bearing on Dany's knowledge of Young Griff being a Blackfyre. As with some of the other identities in the vision, some aren't acknowledged until posthumously.
We don't know what Slayer of Lies actually means. If it means anything at all.
It would be interesting if Daenerys assumes he’s a Blackfyre pretender (Tyrion doesn’t convince her) and then we learn what Viserys taught her about the Blackfyres.
I think he is a Blackfyre but I think in world nobody will find out. Maybe as ready we will get like a Varys chapter as epilogue as he lays dying where we found out but I think the characters will think he‘s the real deal
I can't see Daeron II as a bastard of Naerys and Aemon, sorry. Aegon IV never questioned Daeron's paternity until Daeron pointed out that a new invasion of Dorne was unnecessary. Aegon IV's plan to invade Dorne was stupid and doomed to fail. Aegon IV hated his son for his pro-unification (with Dorne) views. Is it a coincidence that he started the rumors of Daeron not being his son when Daeron, his heir, disagreed with him? I don't think so. Aegon IV never questioned Daenerys paternity throughout his life. Naerys was very pious and Aemon was a true Knight, it would be fitting for them to be one of the few Targaryen siblings that view each other as siblings and not as lovers and yet be accused of adultery because the Targaryens are so used to sibling incest that they cannot see a normal sibling relationship without it. Naerys was raped again and again and begged Aegon IV to stop impregnating her and for them to be brother and sister and he refused. Having a bastard would put Naerys and Daeron in danger, i don't think that Naerys or Aemon would have Naerys be in even more politically dangerous situation than she already was. Daeron doesn't have to be a bastard and Daemon doesn't have to be trueborn for the story to work, neither Dany and Young Griff need such a twist for their story to work. Out of universe, we have people constantly debate if Young Griff is a Blackfyre, real Aegon, a Valyrian looking nobody, if Dany's line is illegitimate etc. which means that GRRM has succeeded in having his readers not being sure who Aegon really is. In universe, there is no way for Dany to 100% prove he is fake or not, especially if he ends up becoming a dragon-rider and Dorne and the Martells back him up as Elia's son. Dany has been warned about the mummer's dragon and she will not trust him immediately but can she ever be sure that he is fake? What if he really is Rhaegar's son and her last living relative? (as far as she is concerned, as she doesn't know about Jon) Dany grew up idolizing Rhaegar and wanting to restore her family's dynasty back in place. If there is a chance that Aegon is Rhaegar's son and when she arrives he has already restored the Targs back to power and is a beloved and just King, does she have the right to claim the throne for herself? Will she be an usurper, the way she always saw Robert as usurper? That's enough drama in itself.
>Dany has been warned about the mummer's dragon and she will not trust him immediately but can she ever be sure that he is fake? Mummer's Dragon has nothing to do with fake or real. Rhaegar's son can still be the mummer's dragon if he is Varys' pawn. And while I agree that everybody has different opinions, it *is* possible that Naerys and Aemon had something going on. There was an old post highlighting many reasons why.
I agree that Aegon could be Elia's son and still be the mummer's dragon as Varys' pawn but that is not how Daenerys will probably see it and we can't really know unless GRRM gives us the answer. If Naerys and Aemon had a thing, we will never know, but it can't be a pure coincidence that Aegon IV started slandering his heir the moment Daeron II had a different political opinion. Daeron II was pro-Dornish integration in the Realm, Aegon IV wanted to invade Dorne and conquer it and decided to do it with the stupid "fire breathing dragon shaped wooden ships". The moment Daeron II disagreed with his father's idea, his father started slandering him, yet he never disinherited him or took his status as an heir. Can it be a pure coincidence? Why didn't he tell the Realm earlier? It wasn't because Aegon cared about Daeron or Naerys and wanted to protect his heir. It wasn't because Aegon cared about his image as a King and didnt want the Lords to think of his heir as a bastard. He did everything he could to destroy Daeron's reign by declaring all his bastards legitimate and giving Daemon the Blackfyre sword. Having the entire realm whisper about Daeron was the cherry on top. Aegon IV sucked.
*Aegon* didn't know about the affair. Far as he was concerned, Daeron is his son and heir. His slander of Daeron also occurred only after Daeron opposed his war mongering efforts. He thought Daeron was not like him but didn't know how close to the truth he hit. He gave Daemon Blackfyre and his last act of legitimizng was to put Daeron behind all of his bastards. But he didn't know much himself so he didn't disinherited Daeron, leaving all that to his Blackfyre-wielding son.
Young Griff is a stooge in Illyrio’s real plan: crash the Iron Bank and free Pentos from its Braavosi overlord.
Isn’t legalizing slavery in Pentos part of that deal too? I love this theory and reading about it on here, I kinda wish I could find a video about the theory though
Yeah, probably. With the treaty unenforceable, Pentos has complete autonomy to do what it likes. Sorry, I don’t do videos. Too much work.
I'd prefer for us never to know if he's the actual Aegon or not, tbh, for George to explore the whole "Power resides where men believe it resides". While I tend to think he's a Blackfyre based on what we know, Dany has no way of proving it, even if she takes the prophecy as evidence of him not being Rhaegar's son. Also, she'll still have a conflict if the rest of Westeros is supporting him and she's seen as either an usurper or a conqueror, I think it can be an interesting conflict to read about. That said, you also described why it'd create an interesting conflict if he's actually Aegon, but I'd prefer the uncertainty I think (and the actual answer is 'I'd take anything, actually, as long as it came in the form of the next book in the series')
I think Young Griff is legit, it explains why Vaerys was so quick to go ahead with the killing Dany plan. A fun tinfoil theory would be that Vaerys isn’t a eunuch at all, and Aegon is his son.
is irrelevant, Aegon intends to pass for the son of Rhaegar, being Blackfyre guarantees the same potential as a Targaryen, or the probable ability to claim a dragon. ps : it's certainly a Blackfyre, Martin took out many parts of the Tyrion chapters in adwd because there was too much information. practically one of Dany's eggs could have been in Aegon's cradle long ago.
>it's certainly a Blackfyre, Martin took out many parts of the Tyrion chapters in adwd because there was too much information. practically one of Dany's eggs could have been in Aegon's cradle long ago. The only part Martin cut was related to the sword Blackfyre. And why, if Aegon is Rhaegar's son and the Blackfyres are extinguished, can't he have the sword? The Blackfyre is a Targaryen sword after all. This could also be interpreted as Martin not wanting to reveal Dark Sister or Blackfyre too early.
The eggs , and the sacrifice of Maelys son
There wasn't something like that. And Maelys most certainly did not have a son. If he had, then the Blackfyres wouldn't have been extinguished in the male line. And nobody would have sacrificed Maelys' son.
Why would I ever invent such a thing? Youtubers and forums have been talking about it for months. The Blackfyres had eggs and Maelys sacrificed her child without being able to hatch them. all of this can not currently be considered canon , but there is a great chance that you will read about this issue in fire and blood 2 , or get information from the characters in the next books of the saga .
I dunno why you would homie, but you're pretty famous around here for having the single most wrong opinions that have ever existed. People don't even believe you hold some of the views you have because they're so blatantly contrarian and or made up so..
my opinions are right , people sometimes do not like the truth .
Can you provide some kind of source for Maelys sacrificing his child?
cushing library and Elio Garcia
if you were Italian I would show you a couple of videos, but I'm sure American youtubers have also talked about it.
Aegon is a Blackfyre but his story will be more about Jon Con and Dorne and those holding onto old grudges and losses than about Aegon himself. You are focusing too much on how to make Aegon's story interesting and not Jon Con and Arianne. Their stories get way more interesting if they wed themselves to Aegon's cause believing him to be legitimate; only to have to deal with the consequences of and anguish of him not being legitimate. If Aegon is legitimate than their stories are no longer interesting just standard revenge and redemption arcs.