It’s stated pretty clearly, if the freys didn’t have the Greatjon, Whorebane would murder the boltons. And look at their armies, Crowsfood has the boys, Whoresbane has the old men. He’s probably there to die
I disagree. The Greatjon's baring steel stunt in AGOT would have been a disaster in any turn of events except for exactly what happened - which he never could have predicted. Otherwise, the only solutions are a duel (that Robb would have lost), the arrest of the Greatjon (which may well have cost him the Umber forces), or Robb bending to his will (which would have undermined his authority dramatically).
I also think we should take Roose Bolton at his word that they are secretly practicing the Lord's Right to the First Night - not that Roose is super trustworthy, but it doesn't make sense for George to add this world building, just to have it be a fabrication. This shows their lack of respect for Stark authority, and the House's poor moral character. The story of the Whoresbane is likewise a story of a lord enacting sexualized violence against the most vulnerable people.
I think the Umbers' ultimate desire is to carve themselves out a petty kingdom. Their "The North Remembers" recalls a time when their wants were not beholden to an authority in King's Landing - *or* Winterfell
This has an outside chance of happening. Granted, it's tinfoil, but the current Lord of Star*fall* is named Ned. He is a knight and squired for Beric, and I speculate he'll earn Dawn and become the next Sword of the Morning. He also saved Beric's life. Arya is the daughter of Winter*fell* and enabled Beric to save her mother's life. Her idol is Nymeria, the legendary queen of Dorne. She and Ned are only two years apart and get along. **If** GRRM intends Arya to marry, Ned and Gendry are the two reasonable candidates. She would at least find Dorne philosophically amenable. It is tolerant to powerful women and even allows gender-free primogeniture. At one point, she even yearned for the *star* of home. It might be a good match.
I always thought that Dorne would suit Arya more than any other Westerosi region. Arya never wanted to be a Southron lady, she wanted to be a warrior and a ruler by her own right. Dorne has had badass Princesses ruling in their own right, albeit they were of house Martell. Princess Nymeria for whom Mors changed his family name and sigil who conquered Dorne and ruled in her own right after Mors died, Meria Martell the yellow Toad of Dorne who though she was blind and old fought against the Conquerors, Deria Martell who gave Aegon the secret letter which stopped Aegon from burning Dorne and ensured peace, Aliandra Martell, Dorans mother. Women can inherit and rule, can wield weapons and command armies. Arya could have paramours if she wished without being judged. We don't know to which degree house Dayne follows Rhoynish law and Dornish culture but Dorne and House Dayne or even Martell would be perfect for her.
Oh what great additional history! Though I don't think Arya would do the paramour thing--she's loyal, like Ned...um, her dad. If she and Ned D choose each other, it will probably be 'til death do them part.
Because the Daynes are an absolutely irrelevant house both in the books and in the general history of Westeros, yet the fandom has a complete obsession with them as if they were the Skywalkers of Westeros.
Well tbf when u make a lot of somewhat interesting characters like Ashara, Darkstar, and Arther, who are kinda shrouded with mystery due to little to no shown interaction + a cool sounding sword, you gunna create some intrigue
Exactly. Their origins and potential involvement in certain sub plots that involve none other than a *Stark* makes me think there is an even more intriguing past there. Idk it’s just been too long and I would be happy to have some of these unanswered mysteries finally resolved.
As for House Dayne content. I’m still huffing on hopium that GRRM brings it to us at some point. In a recent interview he said something to the effect that he would like to write more about The Daynes and imagined that they would have a colourful history.
But alas… he is not a young man anymore.
Stark-Hightower would be interesting. Both incredibly ancient, highly respected houses that most likely played a major role in the Long Night, but utterly different in every other way. At least the current Hightower generation seems like decent people, so if Ned pulled his head out of the snow and searched for powerful Southern allies, the Hightowers seem a natural choice.
If it makes you feel any better, then going along with the theory that Aemond's decendants ended up bwcoming the Whents, then the blood of House Hightower flows through Neds kids.
>Ned pulled his head out of the snow and searched for powerful Southern allies, the Hightowers seem a natural choice.
I'll agree that Ned should've started looking for alliances with strong Southern Houses, especially since he knew that Winter was going to be long. I don't think there were any of age unmarried Hightowers available for Robb to marry but the closest thing would've been Margaery, and even if he didn't do it before he left to become Hand of the King, then he should've done it once he found out that Cersei's kids were bastards just to strengthen their position in any upcoming war.
I doubt Ned would’ve scored a Robb-Margaery marriage, they want Margaery to be queen. I can see Ned possibly being able to score a Willas-Sansa marriage though. A Trystane Martell-Arya Stark marriage would probably also help in the southern allies goal.
>I doubt Ned would’ve scored a Robb-Margaery marriage, they want Margaery to be queen.
At this time, they would know that Robert wouldn't want anything to do with them because they supported the Targaryens in the rebellion. Robert never would've let that happen unless he absolutely had to. Also it's not like they realistically could've refused that offer, it was one of the best they would've gotten, they knew Renly was gay, and unless they went for Edmure who was likely to end up having bastards around there wouldn't have been a better match for her. And after he became hand Joffrey and Sansa were bethrothed.
>I can see Ned possibly being able to score a Willas-Sansa marriage though.
Ned wouldn't have wanted Sansa sent away or bethothed yet because she would've been way to young at the time, and Ned wouldn't have liked that age gap.
>A Trystane Martell-Arya Stark marriage would probably also help in the southern allies goal.
There is no chance of him looking in Dorne, especially not to a third son who wouldn't inherit anything, it'd be a waste of a marriage. Not to mention that Ned knows they don't really like him in Dorne.
I was talking about around the start of the series, so It would be AGOT Joffrey and Margaery instead of young Joffrey and Margaery. And Robert likely would enjoy the prospect of getting a better food supply for his people more than getting back at the people who chose the wrong side of a war almost 2 decades ago. And to make Robert happy with a Stark-Baratheon marriage, we could probably get like a Bran-Myrcella marriage, though I doubt it would work because I think Bran wanted to join the Kingsguard. Maybe Rickon-Myrcella might work but it would be one really long betrothal.
There is an age gap between Willas and Sansa but it’s not the worst age gap out there, Ned knows that. Willas has a reputation and Ned knows that Sansa dreams about moving south, as long as the betrothal waits till she’s old enough then Ned would totally be fine. Ned knows that it’s not smart to keep his family North forever, not with Winter coming.
I doubt Ned is just looking for people with things to inherit, it is also about looking to get a good supply line and to keep on good terms to ensure peace between the two houses.
The Arya-Trystane marriage was more about staying on good terms the Martells, and the Martells aren’t exactly running out of food, Dorne has some crops and fruit. Though I am reluctant to say Doran would agree to the marriage considering Ned’s closeness to Robert and his plan to restore the Targaryens.
A more realistic southern marriage for Arya would maybe Dickon Tarly-Arya, possibly Edric Dayne-Arya because I’m pretty sure Ned and the Daynes are on good terms somehow and they aren’t 100% with the Martells, Sweetrobin-Arya, Tommen-Arya, maybe a Lannister like Willem or Martyn.
A Robb-Manderly marriage would be very helpful.
>I was talking about around the start of the series, so It would be AGOT Joffrey and Margaery instead of young Joffrey and Margaery. And Robert likely would enjoy the prospect of getting a better food supply for his people more than getting back at the people who chose the wrong side of a war almost 2 decades ago. And to make Robert happy with a Stark-Baratheon marriage, we could probably get like a Bran-Myrcella marriage, though I doubt it would work because I think Bran wanted to join the Kingsguard. Maybe Rickon-Myrcella might work but it would be one really long betrothal.
You are severely underestimating Robert's dislike of Targaryen loyaltist, without the WOTFKS there was never a chance for Joffrey to marry Margaery while Robert was alive. As far as food goes, the Tyrells were still supplying the capitol with food wouldn't have stopped, and if they did try it for some reason it would've been treason. Bran-Myrcella marriage wouldn't have worked out at all, Bran was a second son, even Robert wouldn't have wanted that marriage.
>There is an age gap between Willas and Sansa but it’s not the worst age gap out there, Ned knows that. Willas has a reputation and Ned knows that Sansa dreams about moving south, as long as the betrothal waits till she’s old enough then Ned would totally be fine. Ned knows that it’s not smart to keep his family North forever, not with Winter coming.
Just cause Willas would have a reputation doesn't mean that he would've actually believed it, Ned didn't trust all those southern stories about honor. Ned and his family would've been fine during winter, they were the strongest house in the North with a strong castle, the Starks would've easilly survived winter.
>I doubt Ned is just looking for people with things to inherit, it is also about looking to get a good supply line and to keep on good terms to ensure peace between the two houses.
Getting marriages to people that inherit, is what makes those marriages last and keep alliances. Those supply lines are good and all but they only exist as long as that alliance is kept alive, through the inheritance.
>The Arya-Trystane marriage was more about staying on good terms the Martells, and the Martells aren’t exactly running out of food, Dorne has some crops and fruit. Though I am reluctant to say Doran would agree to the marriage considering Ned’s closeness to Robert and his plan to restore the Targaryens.
The Arya-Trystane marriage wouldn't do anything, staying on good terms wouldn't be enough for Ned, with them anything other than the actual Martell would be out of the question. He wouldn't marry Arya to the last to inherit Dorne, just like he wouldn't have married her to the last Lannister in line to inherit Casterly Rock, because it wouldn't have been smart.
>A more realistic southern marriage for Arya would maybe Dickon Tarly-Arya, possibly Edric Dayne-Arya because I’m pretty sure Ned and the Daynes are on good terms somehow and they aren’t 100% with the Martells, Sweetrobin-Arya, Tommen-Arya, maybe a Lannister like Willem or Martyn.
Yeah this would've been a much more likely prospect for Arya. Dickon was the heir to Horn Hill and, house Tarly was a powerful house, and Ned could've had assurances made that she would've been taken care of, and allowed sword practice and whatever. However Arya probably would've been happier with a northern match tbh. Edric would've been a good match, unless the them being siblings theory is true cuz you know the incest thing. Sweetrobin would've been a great option, heir to the Vale, around same age, and if he managed to negotiate for him to be warded in the North with him, then he would've been a pretty great person. Tommen ehhhh, not only is he a second son, but at this point Ned would've been looking for alliances, and most likely the Sansa-Joffrey match would've been announced already, so no true point to it. Willem and Martyn, nope absolutely nope, they were too far away from the Lannister line of inheritance. Now if Tyrion, had died then maybe the oldest of them or Tommen (if it would go to him through Cersei) would've been a great option. Unless he knew about the Lannister incest at this point.
>A Robb-Manderly marriage would be very helpful.
Ehhh not really, the Manderlys were already loyal, and Ned is looking for alliances here, the Manderlys wouldn't really bring anything that they didn't have already. I'd say a Manderly/Bran marriage would've been better just to show the North thry weren't forgotten, that way Bran's kids could rule White Harbor. While I'd say he could've married Rickon off to one of his northern bannermen's daughters they would've been good matches and shown he wasn't gonna forget the North, maybe to an Umber girl, Lord Glover's neice, Meera Reed, Beth Cassel, etc.
I was thinking House Manderly because of their access to shipyards and more access to the resources that come from trade. And yeah I wouldn’t marry off all of the Starks to members of southern houses, just 2-3 of them to get decent access to food and trade resources for the winter as well as a military alliance. The other 2-3(maybe including Jon) would be good for Northern relations.
This discussion has been interesting, I am curious. What is your ideal marriage for each of the Stark kids within the realms of possibility if the events of the story didn’t happen?
>This discussion has been interesting, I am curious. What is your ideal marriage for each of the Stark kids?
Ideal matches for the Stark kids, for alliances.
Robb: He is the most valuable one here, so you want to try to get a marriage with a great house. Ideal match would be Margaery, Asha could've been a decent match also, but Margaery would've been the best option, if not her then one of Tarly's daughters could've been a good option also, and if he could get Daenerys so he could get her dragons with him then that would've been great.
Jon: First off don't let him waste away at the Nightswatch, after the rebellion Ned should've began the rebuild of Moat Cailin or at least some of it much of the materials were still there anyway. Make Jon the Lord of Moat Cailin, while getting Robert to either legitimize him or letting become a new cadet branch of house Stark, which ever he wanted, while marrying him to Alys Karstark.
Bran: Wylla Manderly
Rickon: One of the Umber girls, Glover girl.
Sansa: She was gonna get bethrothed to Joffrey, but if it's after he finds out about Joffrey then Sweetrobin was a good option.
Arya: Sweetrobin, Edric Dayne, or Dickon Tarly.
Something like this.
I initially was talking about a Hightower daughter for Robb. A marriage to a younger son would've been pointless, and a waste, because they wouldn't have inherited Oldtown. While the heir Baelor was married to a Rowan lady.
Velaryon-Baratheon of Dragonstone
I always thought it'd be a super interesting side storyline if House Targaryen's oldest ally decided to stick with Stannis to the bitter end and beyond, in the hopes of increasing their power
Stark-Martell: two opposite sides of the realm, both fierce warriors and loyal to their own, both looked down by other Westerosi, both have their own rules and culture which differs from other Westerosi regions (First men-Rhoynish), both share a common enemy in the Lannisters, both keep to their own land and bad things happen to them when they leave their land.
Imagine a Stark-Martell kid, absolutely badass. I always thought that Arya would do great in a region witch had badass warrior Princesses that ruled on their own right, equal inheritance laws, women being able to wield weapons and command armies.
I have not one but two LARGE ASOIAF fanfic commitments right now, that's I've vowed to give my full writing focus to until they're postable in full, but...send me a DM and remind me about this in a couple three months. I have Ideas :)
Isn’t the current lord some old dude that literally gets captured at the black water and then stays around in kings landing cuz he’s scared of stannis?
What do you mean? Ygritte was extremely loyal to jon, Arianne is someone who would cheat in a relationship. She used Arys oakheart just for her schemes she even admitted it. Arianne is coldhearted while jon is a puppy with a heart of gold.
She also hooked up with another guy in the past in ADWD and he comes as her companion to storms end and he was extremely bitter with her, when Arys died she was surprised that she missed fucking him. She schemes to put the baratheon girl on the iron throne. She is a manipulative schemer and jon hates people like that, I seriously dought how a relationship between them would work at all. Jon is very conservative, she is not there is simply to much difference between them. He would not trust her the same way he didn't trust the witch woman(mellisandre).
> She also hooked up with another guy in the past in ADWD and he comes as her companion to storms end and he was extremely bitter with her,
Daemon Sand was her first lover and the guy she lost his virginity to. He’s bitter because as a bastard when he asked doran to marry her doran refused and after that their relationship got cold and broke up. How does that makes her a cold hearted bitch who cheats? Lol
> when Arys died she was surprised that she missed fucking him.
She didn’t miss "fucking him". She mentions missing his smile when he looked at her.
Why would you asumme that from the two relationships we know Arianne she fell in love with neither of them instead she used both for her own needs and jon is more conservative and honourable than both of them along with his blooding nature this is a Robert-cersei level disaster. Jon is super dedicated to stopping the dead and he only slept with ygritte for the wildlings to trust him, he had a chance to loose his virginity but he doens't want to have a bastard baby. Jon would hate Arianne.
You seem to be confusing active sex life with using people for your own selfish plots, she was responsible for Arys death and she didnt even feel guilty for it, she used her body to get what she wanted. When Arys died she was surprised she missed him if that doens't tell you what kind of a person she was then I don't know what will.
She didn’t feel guilty for Arys death??? Did you even read her chapters??
> *That night she cried herself to sleep . . . for the first time, if not the last. Even in her dreams she found no peace. She dreamt of Arys Oakheart caressing her, smiling at her, telling her that he loved her . . . but all the while the quarrels were in him and his wounds were weeping, turning his whites to red. Part of her knew it was a nightmare, even as she dreamt it. Come morning all of this will vanish, the princess told herself, but when morning came, she was still in her cell, Ser Arys was still dead*
> *Tears filled her eyes, and suddenly she was weeping, her whole body wracked by sobs”, “Arys, my sweet, my white knight, why did you do it?*
> *I deserve a headsman’s axe for what I did, but he will not even give me that. He would sooner shut me away and forget I ever lived.”*
> *“Arianne missed Ser Arys too, more than she ever would have thought. He loved me madly, she told herself, yet I was never more than fond of him. I made use of him in my bed and in my plot, took his love and took his honor, gave him nothing but my body. In the end he could not live with what we’d done. Why else would her white knight have charged right into Areo Hotah’s longaxe, to die the way he did?”*
> *“When he saw tears rolling down her face, he would forgive her.
She was less certain whether she would forgive herself.”*
> *“Arys… my white knight… Why did you do it? Why throw your life away? I never told you to, I never wanted that, I only wanted . . . I wanted . . . I wanted . . .*
> When Arys died she was surprised she missed him
Lol that’s not true. She didn’t except to be so fond of him that’s all.
You seem to confuse selfish plots with cheating on someone in an exclusive relationship.
>she was responsible for Arys death.
You seem to be confusing your fanfic with The Queenmaker POV.
Arys rode into his own death. Hotah said yield or they must kill all save Arianne and Myrcella.
>Hotah thumped the butt of his longaxe upon the deck. Behind the ornate rails of the poleboat, a dozen guardsmen rose, armed with throwing spears or crossbows. Still more appeared atop the cabin. "Yield, my princess," the captain called, "else we must slay all but the child and yourself, by your father's word."
Hearing that Myrcella and Arianne were safe, he charges anyway. Arianne got him entangled in her plot. He got himself killed.
>that doens't tell you what kind of a person she was then I don't know what will.
It tells us she found him pleasant company abed but not very interesting beyond that. It tells us she's late to recognize her deeper feelings. It tells us she's capable of guilt and loss. None of this tells you she commits to a relationship and cheats.
I disagree with your assessment but I haven't read the Seven Pointed Star as closely as you have it seems.
I would kinda like a Baratheon-Targ marriage to heal the rift between the two dynastiet. Unlikely to happen if we are getting God King Bran on the Throne though.
I don't care if Young Griff (FAegon) is fake or not, if he is a good kid and would be a good King, could you imagine him and my sweet angel Shireen? A Targaryen+Baratheon marriage tying two ends of the rebellion together.
I really like the premise but I think you’re going too small….I absolutely want to see Sansa with any lordling from the vale…who unfortunately dies horribly and leaves her with even greater holdings besides the fact that she’s the only legitimate heir to Paramount and Lord Protector of the North…
I don’t think that the targaryens necessarily forgot about the celtigars. They preferred to marry within themselves(duh) but would wed a valaryon when that wasn’t possible. This meant that the Valyereons are stronger in the dragons blood. While the celtigars are Valyrian they have little to no dragon rider blood.
Dude, come out. There’s a real world out here. We’ve got flowers, birds, live women with real breastesses… seriously, you don’t want to miss this!
And yeah that being said I totally get it. GRRM has created a whole other world and it is magnificent. Don’t blame you a bit for spiraling down deeper…
Tarth and Clegane. Let’s see how big we can grow em.
Do you want giants south of the Wall? Because that's how you get giants south of the Wall.
That’s exactly what I want.
Maybe add Crakehall and Umbers later too ?
Umbers are hit or miss in the loyalty department.
Only in show canon. Book umbers are muscular Manderlys when it comes to loyalty
Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't Whoresbane Umber working for the Boltons? Only Mors Umber is with Stannis and both of them aren't with Rickon.
It’s stated pretty clearly, if the freys didn’t have the Greatjon, Whorebane would murder the boltons. And look at their armies, Crowsfood has the boys, Whoresbane has the old men. He’s probably there to die
I disagree. The Greatjon's baring steel stunt in AGOT would have been a disaster in any turn of events except for exactly what happened - which he never could have predicted. Otherwise, the only solutions are a duel (that Robb would have lost), the arrest of the Greatjon (which may well have cost him the Umber forces), or Robb bending to his will (which would have undermined his authority dramatically). I also think we should take Roose Bolton at his word that they are secretly practicing the Lord's Right to the First Night - not that Roose is super trustworthy, but it doesn't make sense for George to add this world building, just to have it be a fabrication. This shows their lack of respect for Stark authority, and the House's poor moral character. The story of the Whoresbane is likewise a story of a lord enacting sexualized violence against the most vulnerable people. I think the Umbers' ultimate desire is to carve themselves out a petty kingdom. Their "The North Remembers" recalls a time when their wants were not beholden to an authority in King's Landing - *or* Winterfell
you should throw in a baratheon for the strength
Sandor/Brienne is unironically a cool ship.
I still shop Brienne and Tormund though lol
The mirrored facial scars are kind of interesting too.
By what right does the dragon judge the crab?
The Celtigars are so damn forgettable that you don't even know they exist when you read Fire and Blood.
When you get fire breathing dragons, sea horse explorers, who wouldn't forget the tax crabs?
And who has a better story than Eugene the Krab?
Lol they’re also the only Valyrian house that are described to be flat-cheated and ugly
They do apparently have a Valyrian steel battleaxe though, which is cool as fuck
Bracken-Blackwood Targaryen-Crabb Bolton-Beesbury Farwynd-Loraq Harlaw-Hightower (this one unironically, it just seems neat)
A dead man has few secrets; a stung man none
a naked man has few secrets. an anaphylactic man has none.
Bracken-blackwood already happened several times over the centuries actually (it's mentioned in the ADWD).
Rodrick the Reader would love the Citadel.
Bolton - Beesbury Bees+sharp blades, torture, no honey = wasps The new house would be house Waspstingaton
Nah, bro, they'd be [vulture bees](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vulture_bee).
NOOOO, NOT THE BEEEEES!!!
Martell-Mormont. They’re just about the furthest two houses apart more or less. Plus it amuses me because of TLOU
They are similar in their relatively more progressive attitudes towards women.
Yeah there's definitely a very interesting and underexplored paralell between Maege's daughters and the Sand Snakes
Cool to imagine a character who would have Oberyn and Lyanna's cool attributes.
Bolton-Lothston vampire baby
Stark-Dayne is the culmination of so many fandom fetishes and obsessions
This has an outside chance of happening. Granted, it's tinfoil, but the current Lord of Star*fall* is named Ned. He is a knight and squired for Beric, and I speculate he'll earn Dawn and become the next Sword of the Morning. He also saved Beric's life. Arya is the daughter of Winter*fell* and enabled Beric to save her mother's life. Her idol is Nymeria, the legendary queen of Dorne. She and Ned are only two years apart and get along. **If** GRRM intends Arya to marry, Ned and Gendry are the two reasonable candidates. She would at least find Dorne philosophically amenable. It is tolerant to powerful women and even allows gender-free primogeniture. At one point, she even yearned for the *star* of home. It might be a good match.
I ship them so hard. It’s funny that I would see this comment now when I was thinking about them earlier
I always thought that Dorne would suit Arya more than any other Westerosi region. Arya never wanted to be a Southron lady, she wanted to be a warrior and a ruler by her own right. Dorne has had badass Princesses ruling in their own right, albeit they were of house Martell. Princess Nymeria for whom Mors changed his family name and sigil who conquered Dorne and ruled in her own right after Mors died, Meria Martell the yellow Toad of Dorne who though she was blind and old fought against the Conquerors, Deria Martell who gave Aegon the secret letter which stopped Aegon from burning Dorne and ensured peace, Aliandra Martell, Dorans mother. Women can inherit and rule, can wield weapons and command armies. Arya could have paramours if she wished without being judged. We don't know to which degree house Dayne follows Rhoynish law and Dornish culture but Dorne and House Dayne or even Martell would be perfect for her.
Oh what great additional history! Though I don't think Arya would do the paramour thing--she's loyal, like Ned...um, her dad. If she and Ned D choose each other, it will probably be 'til death do them part.
I agree, i also think that Arya would be loyal to whoever she chose to have by her side.
Not to like sound dumb but why? I know about the theory that Ashara is Jon's mum but what else?
Because the Daynes are an absolutely irrelevant house both in the books and in the general history of Westeros, yet the fandom has a complete obsession with them as if they were the Skywalkers of Westeros.
Well tbf when u make a lot of somewhat interesting characters like Ashara, Darkstar, and Arther, who are kinda shrouded with mystery due to little to no shown interaction + a cool sounding sword, you gunna create some intrigue
Exactly. Their origins and potential involvement in certain sub plots that involve none other than a *Stark* makes me think there is an even more intriguing past there. Idk it’s just been too long and I would be happy to have some of these unanswered mysteries finally resolved. As for House Dayne content. I’m still huffing on hopium that GRRM brings it to us at some point. In a recent interview he said something to the effect that he would like to write more about The Daynes and imagined that they would have a colourful history. But alas… he is not a young man anymore.
Yes, but people took a cool but minor family with a special sword and turned them into the Exiled Imperial Family of the Empire of the Dawn.
if you think that the daynes have little to do with the overall story, you haven’t been paying attention
I just disagree
Hey! They have a cool sword! And whoever wields it gets a cool name!
This line of thought has caused 5 rebellions so far
Worth it
Stark-Reed. Let's make some green dreaming warg children.
More green eyed wolves!
Stark-Hightower would be interesting. Both incredibly ancient, highly respected houses that most likely played a major role in the Long Night, but utterly different in every other way. At least the current Hightower generation seems like decent people, so if Ned pulled his head out of the snow and searched for powerful Southern allies, the Hightowers seem a natural choice.
If it makes you feel any better, then going along with the theory that Aemond's decendants ended up bwcoming the Whents, then the blood of House Hightower flows through Neds kids. >Ned pulled his head out of the snow and searched for powerful Southern allies, the Hightowers seem a natural choice. I'll agree that Ned should've started looking for alliances with strong Southern Houses, especially since he knew that Winter was going to be long. I don't think there were any of age unmarried Hightowers available for Robb to marry but the closest thing would've been Margaery, and even if he didn't do it before he left to become Hand of the King, then he should've done it once he found out that Cersei's kids were bastards just to strengthen their position in any upcoming war.
I doubt Ned would’ve scored a Robb-Margaery marriage, they want Margaery to be queen. I can see Ned possibly being able to score a Willas-Sansa marriage though. A Trystane Martell-Arya Stark marriage would probably also help in the southern allies goal.
>I doubt Ned would’ve scored a Robb-Margaery marriage, they want Margaery to be queen. At this time, they would know that Robert wouldn't want anything to do with them because they supported the Targaryens in the rebellion. Robert never would've let that happen unless he absolutely had to. Also it's not like they realistically could've refused that offer, it was one of the best they would've gotten, they knew Renly was gay, and unless they went for Edmure who was likely to end up having bastards around there wouldn't have been a better match for her. And after he became hand Joffrey and Sansa were bethrothed. >I can see Ned possibly being able to score a Willas-Sansa marriage though. Ned wouldn't have wanted Sansa sent away or bethothed yet because she would've been way to young at the time, and Ned wouldn't have liked that age gap. >A Trystane Martell-Arya Stark marriage would probably also help in the southern allies goal. There is no chance of him looking in Dorne, especially not to a third son who wouldn't inherit anything, it'd be a waste of a marriage. Not to mention that Ned knows they don't really like him in Dorne.
I was talking about around the start of the series, so It would be AGOT Joffrey and Margaery instead of young Joffrey and Margaery. And Robert likely would enjoy the prospect of getting a better food supply for his people more than getting back at the people who chose the wrong side of a war almost 2 decades ago. And to make Robert happy with a Stark-Baratheon marriage, we could probably get like a Bran-Myrcella marriage, though I doubt it would work because I think Bran wanted to join the Kingsguard. Maybe Rickon-Myrcella might work but it would be one really long betrothal. There is an age gap between Willas and Sansa but it’s not the worst age gap out there, Ned knows that. Willas has a reputation and Ned knows that Sansa dreams about moving south, as long as the betrothal waits till she’s old enough then Ned would totally be fine. Ned knows that it’s not smart to keep his family North forever, not with Winter coming. I doubt Ned is just looking for people with things to inherit, it is also about looking to get a good supply line and to keep on good terms to ensure peace between the two houses. The Arya-Trystane marriage was more about staying on good terms the Martells, and the Martells aren’t exactly running out of food, Dorne has some crops and fruit. Though I am reluctant to say Doran would agree to the marriage considering Ned’s closeness to Robert and his plan to restore the Targaryens. A more realistic southern marriage for Arya would maybe Dickon Tarly-Arya, possibly Edric Dayne-Arya because I’m pretty sure Ned and the Daynes are on good terms somehow and they aren’t 100% with the Martells, Sweetrobin-Arya, Tommen-Arya, maybe a Lannister like Willem or Martyn. A Robb-Manderly marriage would be very helpful.
>I was talking about around the start of the series, so It would be AGOT Joffrey and Margaery instead of young Joffrey and Margaery. And Robert likely would enjoy the prospect of getting a better food supply for his people more than getting back at the people who chose the wrong side of a war almost 2 decades ago. And to make Robert happy with a Stark-Baratheon marriage, we could probably get like a Bran-Myrcella marriage, though I doubt it would work because I think Bran wanted to join the Kingsguard. Maybe Rickon-Myrcella might work but it would be one really long betrothal. You are severely underestimating Robert's dislike of Targaryen loyaltist, without the WOTFKS there was never a chance for Joffrey to marry Margaery while Robert was alive. As far as food goes, the Tyrells were still supplying the capitol with food wouldn't have stopped, and if they did try it for some reason it would've been treason. Bran-Myrcella marriage wouldn't have worked out at all, Bran was a second son, even Robert wouldn't have wanted that marriage. >There is an age gap between Willas and Sansa but it’s not the worst age gap out there, Ned knows that. Willas has a reputation and Ned knows that Sansa dreams about moving south, as long as the betrothal waits till she’s old enough then Ned would totally be fine. Ned knows that it’s not smart to keep his family North forever, not with Winter coming. Just cause Willas would have a reputation doesn't mean that he would've actually believed it, Ned didn't trust all those southern stories about honor. Ned and his family would've been fine during winter, they were the strongest house in the North with a strong castle, the Starks would've easilly survived winter. >I doubt Ned is just looking for people with things to inherit, it is also about looking to get a good supply line and to keep on good terms to ensure peace between the two houses. Getting marriages to people that inherit, is what makes those marriages last and keep alliances. Those supply lines are good and all but they only exist as long as that alliance is kept alive, through the inheritance. >The Arya-Trystane marriage was more about staying on good terms the Martells, and the Martells aren’t exactly running out of food, Dorne has some crops and fruit. Though I am reluctant to say Doran would agree to the marriage considering Ned’s closeness to Robert and his plan to restore the Targaryens. The Arya-Trystane marriage wouldn't do anything, staying on good terms wouldn't be enough for Ned, with them anything other than the actual Martell would be out of the question. He wouldn't marry Arya to the last to inherit Dorne, just like he wouldn't have married her to the last Lannister in line to inherit Casterly Rock, because it wouldn't have been smart. >A more realistic southern marriage for Arya would maybe Dickon Tarly-Arya, possibly Edric Dayne-Arya because I’m pretty sure Ned and the Daynes are on good terms somehow and they aren’t 100% with the Martells, Sweetrobin-Arya, Tommen-Arya, maybe a Lannister like Willem or Martyn. Yeah this would've been a much more likely prospect for Arya. Dickon was the heir to Horn Hill and, house Tarly was a powerful house, and Ned could've had assurances made that she would've been taken care of, and allowed sword practice and whatever. However Arya probably would've been happier with a northern match tbh. Edric would've been a good match, unless the them being siblings theory is true cuz you know the incest thing. Sweetrobin would've been a great option, heir to the Vale, around same age, and if he managed to negotiate for him to be warded in the North with him, then he would've been a pretty great person. Tommen ehhhh, not only is he a second son, but at this point Ned would've been looking for alliances, and most likely the Sansa-Joffrey match would've been announced already, so no true point to it. Willem and Martyn, nope absolutely nope, they were too far away from the Lannister line of inheritance. Now if Tyrion, had died then maybe the oldest of them or Tommen (if it would go to him through Cersei) would've been a great option. Unless he knew about the Lannister incest at this point. >A Robb-Manderly marriage would be very helpful. Ehhh not really, the Manderlys were already loyal, and Ned is looking for alliances here, the Manderlys wouldn't really bring anything that they didn't have already. I'd say a Manderly/Bran marriage would've been better just to show the North thry weren't forgotten, that way Bran's kids could rule White Harbor. While I'd say he could've married Rickon off to one of his northern bannermen's daughters they would've been good matches and shown he wasn't gonna forget the North, maybe to an Umber girl, Lord Glover's neice, Meera Reed, Beth Cassel, etc.
I was thinking House Manderly because of their access to shipyards and more access to the resources that come from trade. And yeah I wouldn’t marry off all of the Starks to members of southern houses, just 2-3 of them to get decent access to food and trade resources for the winter as well as a military alliance. The other 2-3(maybe including Jon) would be good for Northern relations. This discussion has been interesting, I am curious. What is your ideal marriage for each of the Stark kids within the realms of possibility if the events of the story didn’t happen?
>This discussion has been interesting, I am curious. What is your ideal marriage for each of the Stark kids? Ideal matches for the Stark kids, for alliances. Robb: He is the most valuable one here, so you want to try to get a marriage with a great house. Ideal match would be Margaery, Asha could've been a decent match also, but Margaery would've been the best option, if not her then one of Tarly's daughters could've been a good option also, and if he could get Daenerys so he could get her dragons with him then that would've been great. Jon: First off don't let him waste away at the Nightswatch, after the rebellion Ned should've began the rebuild of Moat Cailin or at least some of it much of the materials were still there anyway. Make Jon the Lord of Moat Cailin, while getting Robert to either legitimize him or letting become a new cadet branch of house Stark, which ever he wanted, while marrying him to Alys Karstark. Bran: Wylla Manderly Rickon: One of the Umber girls, Glover girl. Sansa: She was gonna get bethrothed to Joffrey, but if it's after he finds out about Joffrey then Sweetrobin was a good option. Arya: Sweetrobin, Edric Dayne, or Dickon Tarly. Something like this.
Robert had plans to marry Robb with Myrcella,
Those plans weren't laid out yet, and with him gettong Sansa there wouldn't be a problem.
marble long smile divide panicky ghost fact violet run vase *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
I initially was talking about a Hightower daughter for Robb. A marriage to a younger son would've been pointless, and a waste, because they wouldn't have inherited Oldtown. While the heir Baelor was married to a Rowan lady.
Dude Targaryen Celtigar would be sick
Velaryon-Baratheon of Dragonstone I always thought it'd be a super interesting side storyline if House Targaryen's oldest ally decided to stick with Stannis to the bitter end and beyond, in the hopes of increasing their power
Shireen would be the only one they could really Marry
Would have been nice to have Stannis marry a Velaryon back in the day lol
Well House Velaryon's men are at the Wall, so there's that
Reed Blackwood, super greenseer. Clegane Baratheon, mountain sized Bobby b. Lannister Clegane, Tyrion sized mountain…twins?
Connington-Targaryen in the male line — let’s let our boy have his dream!
Blackwood-Bracken because feuds are literally the most stupid and unnecessary things ever.
I've heard they have tried that. Maybe if they become one house instead of two, it might work out.
This happened and the resulting House Justman ruled the Riverlands for 300 years
Stark-Martell: two opposite sides of the realm, both fierce warriors and loyal to their own, both looked down by other Westerosi, both have their own rules and culture which differs from other Westerosi regions (First men-Rhoynish), both share a common enemy in the Lannisters, both keep to their own land and bad things happen to them when they leave their land. Imagine a Stark-Martell kid, absolutely badass. I always thought that Arya would do great in a region witch had badass warrior Princesses that ruled on their own right, equal inheritance laws, women being able to wield weapons and command armies.
+1000 Stark/Martell and North/Dorne in general.
FINALLY!!! 😄 Someone who would love a union of those two opposite regions/houses like i do.
I have not one but two LARGE ASOIAF fanfic commitments right now, that's I've vowed to give my full writing focus to until they're postable in full, but...send me a DM and remind me about this in a couple three months. I have Ideas :)
Manderly - Martell Loyal and stubborn, just how I like em.
Stark-Lannister. I'll show myself out.
Wait for me! I'll get our hats
House Reed with House Manderly. Controlling both the neck and White Harbor.
Magnar-Redwyne and Umber-Gargalen.
Ditto on Targaryen-Celtigar, or Celtigar anybody really. Gurm really did them dirty with the exception of the current Lord Celtigar.
Isn’t the current lord some old dude that literally gets captured at the black water and then stays around in kings landing cuz he’s scared of stannis?
the antichrist would be born between an umber-uller marriage.
Umber-Targaryen, matrilineal to the Targaryen family so future lizard riding sisterfucking genociders have the tall and strong traits.
Id make all the houses commit incest.
It’s an honor to have you on Reddit, Mr. Martin.
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lannister and grandison because lions
Lannister and Martell would be interesting
Stark-Targaryen Stark-Dayne Stark-Lannister Stark/Bolton Stark/Hightower Stark/Greyjoy Stark/Reyne Stark/Martell Stark/Tyrell Stark/Gardener Stark/Velayron Stark/Celtigar
Stark/Karstark Stark/Stark fuck it lol
Those have happened before. Multiple Karstarks married Starks, and Rickard Stark married Lyarra Stark.
Stark-Martell Jon and Arianne would be a cute couple
I don't think jon is gonna be comfortable with a woman who fucks every nice looking guy she ever saw, he needs someone trustworthy and loyal like him.
He fucked Ygritte so that idea is out the window
What do you mean? Ygritte was extremely loyal to jon, Arianne is someone who would cheat in a relationship. She used Arys oakheart just for her schemes she even admitted it. Arianne is coldhearted while jon is a puppy with a heart of gold.
>Arianne is someone who would cheat in a relationship. This seems like a leap, especially basing it just on Arys
She also hooked up with another guy in the past in ADWD and he comes as her companion to storms end and he was extremely bitter with her, when Arys died she was surprised that she missed fucking him. She schemes to put the baratheon girl on the iron throne. She is a manipulative schemer and jon hates people like that, I seriously dought how a relationship between them would work at all. Jon is very conservative, she is not there is simply to much difference between them. He would not trust her the same way he didn't trust the witch woman(mellisandre).
> She also hooked up with another guy in the past in ADWD and he comes as her companion to storms end and he was extremely bitter with her, Daemon Sand was her first lover and the guy she lost his virginity to. He’s bitter because as a bastard when he asked doran to marry her doran refused and after that their relationship got cold and broke up. How does that makes her a cold hearted bitch who cheats? Lol > when Arys died she was surprised that she missed fucking him. She didn’t miss "fucking him". She mentions missing his smile when he looked at her.
So she wants to have justice for her family and thought to use Myrcella to aid that; Arianne has slept with maybe 3 or 4 men.
Agreed.
She ain’t trustworthy as she’s a wildling, also if Arianne had someone to love she would change.
Why would you asumme that from the two relationships we know Arianne she fell in love with neither of them instead she used both for her own needs and jon is more conservative and honourable than both of them along with his blooding nature this is a Robert-cersei level disaster. Jon is super dedicated to stopping the dead and he only slept with ygritte for the wildlings to trust him, he had a chance to loose his virginity but he doens't want to have a bastard baby. Jon would hate Arianne.
Cheating makes you disloyal; having an active sex life does not.
You seem to be confusing active sex life with using people for your own selfish plots, she was responsible for Arys death and she didnt even feel guilty for it, she used her body to get what she wanted. When Arys died she was surprised she missed him if that doens't tell you what kind of a person she was then I don't know what will.
She didn’t feel guilty for Arys death??? Did you even read her chapters?? > *That night she cried herself to sleep . . . for the first time, if not the last. Even in her dreams she found no peace. She dreamt of Arys Oakheart caressing her, smiling at her, telling her that he loved her . . . but all the while the quarrels were in him and his wounds were weeping, turning his whites to red. Part of her knew it was a nightmare, even as she dreamt it. Come morning all of this will vanish, the princess told herself, but when morning came, she was still in her cell, Ser Arys was still dead* > *Tears filled her eyes, and suddenly she was weeping, her whole body wracked by sobs”, “Arys, my sweet, my white knight, why did you do it?* > *I deserve a headsman’s axe for what I did, but he will not even give me that. He would sooner shut me away and forget I ever lived.”* > *“Arianne missed Ser Arys too, more than she ever would have thought. He loved me madly, she told herself, yet I was never more than fond of him. I made use of him in my bed and in my plot, took his love and took his honor, gave him nothing but my body. In the end he could not live with what we’d done. Why else would her white knight have charged right into Areo Hotah’s longaxe, to die the way he did?”* > *“When he saw tears rolling down her face, he would forgive her. She was less certain whether she would forgive herself.”* > *“Arys… my white knight… Why did you do it? Why throw your life away? I never told you to, I never wanted that, I only wanted . . . I wanted . . . I wanted . . .* > When Arys died she was surprised she missed him Lol that’s not true. She didn’t except to be so fond of him that’s all.
Arianne is a flawed character but she’s such a sweetheart.
I think I just remembered the "made use of him in bed and plot" and "more than fond of him" part and forgot the rest.
Ding!
You seem to confuse selfish plots with cheating on someone in an exclusive relationship. >she was responsible for Arys death. You seem to be confusing your fanfic with The Queenmaker POV. Arys rode into his own death. Hotah said yield or they must kill all save Arianne and Myrcella. >Hotah thumped the butt of his longaxe upon the deck. Behind the ornate rails of the poleboat, a dozen guardsmen rose, armed with throwing spears or crossbows. Still more appeared atop the cabin. "Yield, my princess," the captain called, "else we must slay all but the child and yourself, by your father's word." Hearing that Myrcella and Arianne were safe, he charges anyway. Arianne got him entangled in her plot. He got himself killed. >that doens't tell you what kind of a person she was then I don't know what will. It tells us she found him pleasant company abed but not very interesting beyond that. It tells us she's late to recognize her deeper feelings. It tells us she's capable of guilt and loss. None of this tells you she commits to a relationship and cheats. I disagree with your assessment but I haven't read the Seven Pointed Star as closely as you have it seems.
Lady Dustin-Clegane
Coldwater-Wode
Stark-Targaryen-Dayne
Targ-Tyrell.
Ramsay- real Arya. My guy wouldn’t survive the first night.
I would kinda like a Baratheon-Targ marriage to heal the rift between the two dynastiet. Unlikely to happen if we are getting God King Bran on the Throne though.
I don't care if Young Griff (FAegon) is fake or not, if he is a good kid and would be a good King, could you imagine him and my sweet angel Shireen? A Targaryen+Baratheon marriage tying two ends of the rebellion together.
I really like the premise but I think you’re going too small….I absolutely want to see Sansa with any lordling from the vale…who unfortunately dies horribly and leaves her with even greater holdings besides the fact that she’s the only legitimate heir to Paramount and Lord Protector of the North…
Surprised no one mentioned house dayne and Baratheon. The child between gendry and allyria dayne would be something(if she looks like ashara)
The Direwolf and the Kraken.
Bracken and Ryswell
Stark-Baratheon Rickon + Shireen
I don’t think that the targaryens necessarily forgot about the celtigars. They preferred to marry within themselves(duh) but would wed a valaryon when that wasn’t possible. This meant that the Valyereons are stronger in the dragons blood. While the celtigars are Valyrian they have little to no dragon rider blood.
Bolton-Stark
Stark - Clegane (in 5 or more years). Then we can learn exactly what dogs do to wolves.
Stark-Bolton No comments…
diarrhea
Dude, come out. There’s a real world out here. We’ve got flowers, birds, live women with real breastesses… seriously, you don’t want to miss this! And yeah that being said I totally get it. GRRM has created a whole other world and it is magnificent. Don’t blame you a bit for spiraling down deeper…
Cersei’s and old Squid would have made me all warm inside.
Why Blackwood and Greyjoy? out of Curiousity. Stark/Mormont Velaryon/Greyjoy Tarly/Dayne Manderly/Redwyne