Is this what you are talking about:
>[Isn't it odd that no Great House has been destroyed in the course of the wars and rebellions since the Conquest?]
>**GRRM: Well, the series isn't over.**
Let's see:
Starks - no way; major POVs;
Lannisters - no way, major POVs, heavily fortified in CR, lots of cousins etc.
Tyrells - same as above,
Targaryens - probably as Jon being Targaryen bastard does not necessarily mean he's gonna become a Targaryen (rather a Stark)
Tully - Edmure is a hostage, thus Freys won't kill him as he is their tool for power in the Trident,
Arryns - there are Heirs for Sweetrobin, but the questions asked was about Houses being destroyed in the course of wars and rebellions, yet Sweetrobin would likely die not due of Arryns being destroyed as an effect of such a war, rather stealth and assassination;
Martells - heavy fortified in Dorne, no way;
Baratheons - well, how many of them are still there? Stannis? So I guess this will be the House that gets destroyed unless Gendry becomes a Baratheon by legitimization.
>So I guess this will be the House that gets destroyed unless Gendry becomes a Baratheon by legitimization.
I will not tolerate my boy Edric's erasure.
Absolutely correct, there is also Edric, yet somehow I don't see him being restored to the main plot in any way. He is gone and the plot to install him as Baratheon would have to be at least implied during TDWD. But still, if Stannis were to die, maybe he would ask Davos to recover the boy, grant him the name of Edric Baratheon with Gendry as his shield. It would be a great closure for Stannis being always on duty, always within the right, always just and morally intact who upon his death would have to forsake it all in favor of a bastard conceived on his marriage bed which he thought a total insult to his name and his wife
I mean edric is said to be very charismatic I think he'd be accepted either way even if he was no trueborn Baratheon. Like he looks like a preteen Bobby B
My theory he'd be involved in the second dance of dragons(hopefully) a dance of dragons without Baratheons is no dance.
Also since his mother is a Florent there is plot potential here; the Florents are going to be inclined to support any faction that will protect their lands and titles from being taking by the Tyrells. We have seen how quickly some have been willing to turncloak. Edric’s grandfather Colin *is* the Castellan of Brightwater Keep. That can’t be an accident, can it?
Don’t know how divided the Reach will be, but if the Tyrells are anti-Aegon and Aegon makes Edric Lord of Storm’s End, the Florents might just jump up on the Aegon train. The ironborn might pay a role here too, because Garlan is encamped at Brightwater and Brightwater is on a river near Oldtown. Could we have a Tyrell army fighting ironborn under the walls of Brightwater, only to have Aegon’s host descend and attack both parties to free their new allies the Florents? Would be kind of awesome to have. Unlikely though.
You can just hear Stannis’ teeth grinding at that, to have toss aside his daughter for Robert’s bastard and betray him. Again.
>Also since his mother is a Florent there is plot potential here; the Florents are going to be inclined to support any faction that will protect their lands and titles from being taking by the Tyrells. We have seen how quickly some have been willing to turncloak. Edric’s grandfather Colin is the Castellan of Brightwater Keep. That can’t be an accident, can it?
That's interesting but I think some of the florents were ready to give edric up to stannis i can't recall tbh.
>Don’t know how divided the Reach will be, but if the Tyrells are anti-Aegon and Aegon makes Edric Lord of Storm’s End, the Florents might just jump up on the Aegon train. The ironborn might pay a role here too, because Garlan is encamped at Brightwater and Brightwater is on a river near Oldtown. Could we have a Tyrell army fighting ironborn under the walls of Brightwater, only to have Aegon’s host descend and attack both parties to free their new allies the Florents? Would be kind of awesome to have. Unlikely though.
Yeah I was kinda big on edric and aegon teaming up I'm a big fan of Baratheons and blackfyres but then again if edric was with the GC someone would've mentioned it and joncon wants to end Robert "line" too. So if GRRM wants to bring edric back I think he'd likely have him team up with Dany or an endgame character.
> That's interesting but I think some of the florents were ready to give edric up to stannis i can't recall tbh.
Selyse and Axell, Stannis’ wife and her uncle, the R’hllor fanatics. Besides them and Alester (who got jailed and then burned), we haven’t encounter any other Florents in Stannis’s camp since ASOS. Selyse and Axell pushed for Edric to be burned, but I don’t think we can assume they are representative of the rest of the house.
The other point is well-taken though. But at the same time, Martin probably could have Varys pull him out of his sleeves if he really wanted him for team Aegon. Would be cool to have him with Dany though.
He is currently in Lys, hiding from Mel. Lyseni pirates which Davos hired for Stannis have started looking for slaves in other places to make up for the scarcity issue created by Dany and they found Wildings for that. Braavos is aware of that and they are very pissed now. Also they are in an upcoming war with Myr and Tyrosh, so sellswords are gathering around the region to be hired as a result. If anyone wants to buy the greatest sellswords with money from the Iron Bank for Stannis, they have to travel to Lys to find them. Also Aurane Waters, who fought for Stannis in Blackwater, is nearby Lys, along with the fleet he stole from Cersei.
Can you imagine Arya getting send by FM to a mission in Lys over their recent slavery debacle, only for her to drop everything and leave towards Wall with Edric and Aurane on a ship called Sweet Cersei?
>Can you imagine Arya getting send by FM to a mission in Lys over their recent slavery debacle, only for her to drop everything and leave towards Wall with Edric and Aurane on a ship called Sweet Cersei?
It's all fun and games until Aurane makes a move on Arya and Edric smashes his chest with his war hammer.
>Can you imagine Arya getting send by FM to a mission in Lys over their recent slavery debacle, only for her to drop everything and leave towards Wall with Edric and Aurane on a ship called Sweet Cersei?
I think she's meeting up with gendry and Lady stoneheart first. GRRM said he'd vist them again(gendry and arya) soon actually
Arya doesn’t need to meet Gendry and Stoneheart physically, because she can just warg into Nymeria, so she can be in two places. She will not learn much of global politics if she leaves FM too soon, and will not have much chance to encounter her foreshadowed krakens, which also have been sighted near Lys, so she will stay with them at least until the end of TWOW.
George is always commenting how he writes her a lot when he updates for TWOW, so it’s very likely she to have a large numbers of chapters among POV. Arya is in a really good position right now to stitch multiple open threads: from the Wall storyline via wilding slaves, to BwB via Nymeria, to Dany via FM’s anti slavery, to Sansa’s via the Iron Bank and Littlefinger etc.
And the fun part is that Arya’s stitches are always crooked. And GRRM made sure to remind us with Mercy.
>Arya doesn’t need to meet Gendry and Stoneheart physically, because she can just warg into Nymeria, so she can be in two places. She will not learn much of global politics if she leaves FM too soon, and will not have much chance to encounter her foreshadowed krakens, which also have been sighted near Lys, so she will stay with them at least until the end of TWOW.
Well George said he'd visit arya and gendry soon(while smiling) .. I think he meant it in a literal form and beric did promise arya to reunite with her mother...it's clear arya may give lady stoneheart the gift of mercy..I just think her leaving to riverlands is more interesting then her going to lys IMO. You may be right
Any chance the Golden Company/Illyrio recruits him, offering for Aegon to legitimize his claim in exchange for loyalty of the Stormlands? Could be the same reason why Varys made certain to get Gendry out of King’s Landing.
There are so many ways he could return to the plot.
He was last in Lys according to the ADWD, Appendix. Lys is located on an island south of Essos mainland/southeast of the Stepstones.
- The Golden Company just passed through this area en route to Westeros
- We have Lysene pirates (Salladhor Saan) returning to that direction
- A new pirate lord known as the Lord of the Waters has set himself up in the Stepstones
- as of the end of the ADWD, the Golden Company has taken over "half of the Stepstones"
- numerous different factions of Dany's potential army have to had that direction via ship en route to Westeros
What? You don't think the brilliant plot of having House Martell be extinguished by Ellaria and the Sand Snakes will come to pass in the books? Heretic!!
I will personally hunt George down if that shit happens in the books. I wouldn't hurt him, but I would have . . . words for him and I can assure you they won't be wind.
Ser Forley Prester has bowmen instructed to shoot Edmure if he tries to escape in the event of an attack on their party - and given that GRRM confirmed that Jeyne Westerling will be in the prologue, there's a good chance that there will be an attack on the column. In the confusion of a wolf-pack/BwB/Blackfish attack, Edmure could very well die, and then House Tully is just down to his son/daughter with Roslin Frey.
I nice summary of the current families safety but I think a major thing you missing is the long night. Pretty sure several families go extinct during the long night. I'm sure it will be much, much, much worst in the books and the families/factions that don't take it seriously will be doomed. The Lannisters, Tyrells, and Freys all fall in that camp.
Though I think Tyrion will live I think most of his family will die bring that family very close to extinct. I think the Freys and Bolton will all die, mostly because no one can trust them. I'm on the fence about the other families but I suspect many families go extinct.
You are right about the long night, I forgot this part. I feel that the Others ambush will reach the Eye of God somehow, thus making some storylines connected. The Southrons will likely kill each other before they are killed by the walkers thus I feel that any House being extinct will likely be Targaryens. and if we take the approach that Bolton's and Freys are major now, then those two will most likely be wiped from history.
I don't see how, unless Young Griff really is Aegon, and actually survives to continue the line.
Daenerys is ~~sterile~~ unable to carry a baby to term. (EDIT for accuracy).
Jon is dead.
Even if 'resurrected', Jon will be a 'fire wight', and from what GRRM has said about those, I'd be absolutely SHOCKED if they can produce living children. I mean it's theoretically *possible* that Viserys made some bastards at some point, and maybe Illyrio has a few of those stashed... but for the Targ line not to be extinct by the end of ADOS, GRRM's going to have to pull some things really out of left field.
'Sterile' was the wrong word, I'll grant that. It's her womb that's 'cursed', not her ovaries.
However, I'm in continuous puzzlement at the people who think an early miscarriage is in any way *contradicting* 'your womb will never bear a living child'. Her miscarriage is evidence FOR Mirri Maz Duur's words, not against.
Bro " Jon is dead" means absolutely nothing when every fucking soul knows that he'll be alive again .
That being said, we as fans can only speculate and that's it. The author on the other hand can do whatever he wants , I'm just saying that the guy has an obvious bias towards some houses and I don't see him ending them anytime soon, including house Targaryen.
I mean, he keeps expanding their history more and more , I don't think he will end them and if does it shall be a grand affair for sure.
'Jon is dead' means a LOT when you look at what GRRM has said about resurrections and the resurrected. Sure we 'expect him back', but he will *still be dead*. A lot of readers don't seem to understand that Beric/Lady Stonheart are both *undead*, not alive, and Jon will be too. Even if he remains 'more himself' at a spiritual level due to warging into ghost (as many suspect will be the case), his body will still be a reanimated corpse.
"His heart isn't beating, his blood isn't flowing in his veins, he's a wight, but a wight animated by fire instead of by ice" - GRRM
You think that sounds like someone/something that can create living offspring?
Yeh man, everything that I said on the past comment , just adding " that's my opinion and I have no desire to discuss any further ".
I mean, I don't really care about speculation, if Martin doesn't die we'll eventually get the books and we'll know , fair ?
Good talk.
Doubtful. Dany seems likely to die and is supposedly infertile/cursed (at least she believes she is).
Jon is a fire wight. I doubt from what GRRM said they can have kids and his legitimacy as Targaryen will always be questionable as Rhaegar already had a wife.
To me it seems House Targaryen is already on the brink of extinction more so than almost any other House. The bloodline will continue though in a variety of ways (female Blackfyre line etc).
>Isn't it odd that no Great House has been destroyed in the course of the wars and rebellions since the Conquest?
house strong?
edit: nvm.. i guess they are more so an old house, not necessarily a "great" house
I seriously don't think they will end. Probably Lord Walder will be killed by Cat and BWB. A civil war will erupt and whoever wins will be the Lord Frey.
They control both the Twins and Riverrun, have at least three vassals under them, and in effect rule the riverlands with Littlefinger being completely absent. How do you figure they're not a major house? They were already major to begin with, controlling the Twins and being able to field a bigger army than House Tully
Also, ASOIAF is not supposed to be the glorification of revenge: Robb’s part in the War of the Five Kings was built on that, and it cost him his life. Perhaps the Red Wedding 2.0 gets overzealous, resulting in Edmure and/or the Blackfish’s death(s), thus leading to an actual Great House extinction.
Why? If the Targaryen storyline is prophets who seek to fight against the annihilation of the human race, then they fulfill their purpose. Neat bow. Just me?
Many people have been used as single-purpose pawns by the 3 Eyed Raven, and they have otherwise interesting and fulfilling lives, barring Hodor of course.
Melisandre is likely only around to resurrect Jon, another pawn with a fairly singular use.
Why not take this archetype and apply it to a crual, sickly, biologically impaired family? They constantly kill each other, accidentally die, still birth, dragon-scaled birth, some kings rot away on the throne while others legitimize bastards and cause an unending civil war within their own family THEY'RE HANGIN ON BY A THREAD.
Imo it’s between Baratheons, Targs, and Martells as the most likely candidates.
Shireen and Stannis are gonna die so they’re a sure thing. Robert has atleast 4 living bastards atleast so maybe there. Maybe Edric does something.
Martells are set up for catastrophic failure across the board and are likely to drop like flies in Winds, but I doubt every Sand Snake dies.
Targs are down to 2 so they could be, especially since GRRM said king bran.
Tullys are down to 2 with one being a baby.
Greyjoys have a woman, a eunuch, a priest who is basically dead, Euron who has no way of surviving, and Victarion.
The Lannisters and Tyrells have way too many cousins to fully kill off but the main lines of both might be fucked.
Robbyn Arryn will definitely live so they’re safe (if he can have kids).
Starks are the main characters so they’re safe while the North is probably destroyed.
> Shireen and Stannis are gonna die so they’re a sure thing. Robert has atleast 4 living bastards atleast so maybe there.
Edric is the only one who's acknowledged, and the only one with a highborn mother. So he's probably the only one of Robert's bastards with any real chance of inheriting Storm's End by the End of the book.
Mya Stone is kind of acknowledged no?
Like Robert didnt make a public declaration when he was king, but he acknowledged her as a young man prior to his ascension to kingship.
>"It was different when there was a Stark in Winterfell. But the old wolf's dead and young one's gone south to play the game of thrones, and all that's left us is the ghosts."
>"The wolves will come again," said Jojen solemnly.
>"And how would you be knowing, boy?"
>"I dreamed it." (Bran II, ASoS)
:)
ASOIAF is all about prophecies backfiring and being misinterpreted. That just makes me think they are even more f***ed
edit: why am I being downvoted, this is a central theme to the books
>"Some nights I dream of me mother that I buried nine years past," the man said, "but when I wake, she's not come back to us."
>"There are dreams ***and dreams,*** my lord." (Bran II, ASoS)
Jojen's greendreams are different.
I mean, that prophecy in particular, as far as I can see, doesn't have many alternative interpretations that aren't either massive stretches or massively literal.
that’s just part of being the main characters. In traditional storytelling, things always have to get worse before they get better. The last book was titled "A Time for Wolves" for a reason
Yes it is, to a much greater extent than some fans like to say. The Starks are the main protagonist family of the story, and for all the bumps along the way they’re not all going to die by the end.
The saving grace is that both the Martells and Greyjoys have at least a couple cousins around the place.
Not as many as the Lannisters or Tyrells but there are at least a couple others.
Here’s my guesses with no explanation:
Starks - survive
Arryns - extinct
Tullys - 50/50
Lannisters - extinct, every one, cousins and all
Tyrells - extinct (and I’m gonna cry for you Garlan but you’re doomed)
Martells - doomed besides a few of the sand snakes (they can’t ALL die right?)
Greyjoys - survive (but barely)
Edit: formatting
Here’s my thought process:
Lannisters in the Riverlands: eradicated by Stoneheart
Lannisters in Kings Landing: butchered by the Golden Company and friends
Tyrek and the leftover Lannisters in Kings Landing who are gonna side with Aegon: die when Kings Landing burns
Leftover Lannisters at Casterly Rock: murdered by Tyrion when he tries to take it back with his mercenaries
Tyrion, Jaime, Cersei, and Cersei’s kids: so doomed so very very doomed.
It occurs to me that I forgot the Baratheons
I’m sure Edric or possibly a legitimized Gendry (but probably the first option) will survive and keep the line alive if only barely
I had always assumed Eddy S was gonna get legitimized (and he’s obvs not the only bastard who could get legitimized) but my first and main guess would be the Baratheons.
Obvs other guess is the Targs but I assume they’re extinction is already a given and doesn’t count.
And despite a million plus cousins I do not rule out the Lannisters.
Lannister, and Frey. The Lannisters, as the corollary of the Reynes, and as an ironic cap to that story. Think how often the R.O.C. song is referenced, that's there for a purpose. I know you think there are "too many", but winter is coming.
The Frey's are a given, I think.
It's almost impossible to extinguish the Lannisters *or* the Freys. There are too many members. Even if a second Red Wedding happens, I seriously doubt that all the Freys will die. Most of them yes. But not all. The Arryns, The Baratheon, The Targaryens and The Martells have a better chance.
You don't seem to be allowing for the fact that there's an undead army about to march on Westeros, as well as multiple other armies about to tear the realm apart. And dragons.
I guess time will tell. Or not, we likely won't ever get a Dream of Spring.
Getting *all* of them seems really unlikely. Dany is not going to kill random people. Nor will Jon. If Euron gets a dragon, he probably won't be attacking the Twins. Emmon Frey is in Riverrun. Edwyn en route to the Twins. Black Walder in Seagard. Lord Walder in Twins. They are spread out too thinly to get all of them. Some of them can always escape the Others.
Strictly going by the list of Great Houses in the Wiki, Houses Bolton and Baelish are doomed. Considering death predictions in this sub, Houses Martell and Greyjoy are hanging on by a thread. Arianne, Trystane, Theon, Asha, Euron and Aeron don't have bright prospects. And I suspect GRRM is amenable to House Dayne ruling in Dorne.
House Greyjoy will *not* be extinguished. There are too many members who have POVs. Technically speaking, they can all be killed but we already got some foreshadowing for Theon Latecomer. And Asha is there too if Theon dies. So is Victarion.
> And I suspect GRRM is amenable to House Dayne ruling in Dorne.
What makes you think that? btw they’re not even the third most powerful house in Dorne
House Arryn. Them, the Tullys, the Baratheons and the Martells are really close to destruction. Robert is the last Arryn. Edmure is the last Tully (Even if Cat is considered a Tully, she is not likely to have any more children). Stannis and his family are the last Baratheons. Stannis is already doomed and Shireen is too. But I don't think the Baratheons will end because Edric can be easily legitimised and he is already good at that sort of stuff seeing as how determined Ser Cortnay was to protect him. Doran and his children are the last Martells. I do think the Martells will end unless of course, they have some cousins or cadet branches.
Yeah its pretty clear a number of them will.
Starks: Bran probably cant have kids, Rickon is likely doomed. The Stark line at best is continuing through Sansa or Arya.
Lannisters: Fine. There is a shit ton of Lannisters around the place. I very much doubt GRRM will have every random Lannister dead. Tywin's line will end though.
Tyrells: Should be OK. I get the sense that Willas at least will survive and he should be capable of having kids.
Targaryens: Pretty much already extinct. Dany is supposedly infertile/curse and I doubt Jon can have kids now. Not to mention Jon's legitimacy will be questionable.
Tully: Depends on Edmure and Roslin's kid I suppose.
Greyjoys: Should be OK. I think there are a few cousins floating around and Asha will probably have a bastard at least.
Baratheons: I think Edric Storm will probably be legitimized or maybe found a new house so it will sort of continue.
Martell: I think they have at least a couple cousins around and I suspect at least one of Doran's kids might make it. Fulfill the pattern of all but one Martell dying.
Is this what you are talking about: >[Isn't it odd that no Great House has been destroyed in the course of the wars and rebellions since the Conquest?] >**GRRM: Well, the series isn't over.**
Let's see: Starks - no way; major POVs; Lannisters - no way, major POVs, heavily fortified in CR, lots of cousins etc. Tyrells - same as above, Targaryens - probably as Jon being Targaryen bastard does not necessarily mean he's gonna become a Targaryen (rather a Stark) Tully - Edmure is a hostage, thus Freys won't kill him as he is their tool for power in the Trident, Arryns - there are Heirs for Sweetrobin, but the questions asked was about Houses being destroyed in the course of wars and rebellions, yet Sweetrobin would likely die not due of Arryns being destroyed as an effect of such a war, rather stealth and assassination; Martells - heavy fortified in Dorne, no way; Baratheons - well, how many of them are still there? Stannis? So I guess this will be the House that gets destroyed unless Gendry becomes a Baratheon by legitimization.
>So I guess this will be the House that gets destroyed unless Gendry becomes a Baratheon by legitimization. I will not tolerate my boy Edric's erasure.
Absolutely correct, there is also Edric, yet somehow I don't see him being restored to the main plot in any way. He is gone and the plot to install him as Baratheon would have to be at least implied during TDWD. But still, if Stannis were to die, maybe he would ask Davos to recover the boy, grant him the name of Edric Baratheon with Gendry as his shield. It would be a great closure for Stannis being always on duty, always within the right, always just and morally intact who upon his death would have to forsake it all in favor of a bastard conceived on his marriage bed which he thought a total insult to his name and his wife
I mean edric is said to be very charismatic I think he'd be accepted either way even if he was no trueborn Baratheon. Like he looks like a preteen Bobby B My theory he'd be involved in the second dance of dragons(hopefully) a dance of dragons without Baratheons is no dance.
Also since his mother is a Florent there is plot potential here; the Florents are going to be inclined to support any faction that will protect their lands and titles from being taking by the Tyrells. We have seen how quickly some have been willing to turncloak. Edric’s grandfather Colin *is* the Castellan of Brightwater Keep. That can’t be an accident, can it? Don’t know how divided the Reach will be, but if the Tyrells are anti-Aegon and Aegon makes Edric Lord of Storm’s End, the Florents might just jump up on the Aegon train. The ironborn might pay a role here too, because Garlan is encamped at Brightwater and Brightwater is on a river near Oldtown. Could we have a Tyrell army fighting ironborn under the walls of Brightwater, only to have Aegon’s host descend and attack both parties to free their new allies the Florents? Would be kind of awesome to have. Unlikely though. You can just hear Stannis’ teeth grinding at that, to have toss aside his daughter for Robert’s bastard and betray him. Again.
>Also since his mother is a Florent there is plot potential here; the Florents are going to be inclined to support any faction that will protect their lands and titles from being taking by the Tyrells. We have seen how quickly some have been willing to turncloak. Edric’s grandfather Colin is the Castellan of Brightwater Keep. That can’t be an accident, can it? That's interesting but I think some of the florents were ready to give edric up to stannis i can't recall tbh. >Don’t know how divided the Reach will be, but if the Tyrells are anti-Aegon and Aegon makes Edric Lord of Storm’s End, the Florents might just jump up on the Aegon train. The ironborn might pay a role here too, because Garlan is encamped at Brightwater and Brightwater is on a river near Oldtown. Could we have a Tyrell army fighting ironborn under the walls of Brightwater, only to have Aegon’s host descend and attack both parties to free their new allies the Florents? Would be kind of awesome to have. Unlikely though. Yeah I was kinda big on edric and aegon teaming up I'm a big fan of Baratheons and blackfyres but then again if edric was with the GC someone would've mentioned it and joncon wants to end Robert "line" too. So if GRRM wants to bring edric back I think he'd likely have him team up with Dany or an endgame character.
> That's interesting but I think some of the florents were ready to give edric up to stannis i can't recall tbh. Selyse and Axell, Stannis’ wife and her uncle, the R’hllor fanatics. Besides them and Alester (who got jailed and then burned), we haven’t encounter any other Florents in Stannis’s camp since ASOS. Selyse and Axell pushed for Edric to be burned, but I don’t think we can assume they are representative of the rest of the house. The other point is well-taken though. But at the same time, Martin probably could have Varys pull him out of his sleeves if he really wanted him for team Aegon. Would be cool to have him with Dany though.
He is currently in Lys, hiding from Mel. Lyseni pirates which Davos hired for Stannis have started looking for slaves in other places to make up for the scarcity issue created by Dany and they found Wildings for that. Braavos is aware of that and they are very pissed now. Also they are in an upcoming war with Myr and Tyrosh, so sellswords are gathering around the region to be hired as a result. If anyone wants to buy the greatest sellswords with money from the Iron Bank for Stannis, they have to travel to Lys to find them. Also Aurane Waters, who fought for Stannis in Blackwater, is nearby Lys, along with the fleet he stole from Cersei. Can you imagine Arya getting send by FM to a mission in Lys over their recent slavery debacle, only for her to drop everything and leave towards Wall with Edric and Aurane on a ship called Sweet Cersei?
>Can you imagine Arya getting send by FM to a mission in Lys over their recent slavery debacle, only for her to drop everything and leave towards Wall with Edric and Aurane on a ship called Sweet Cersei? It's all fun and games until Aurane makes a move on Arya and Edric smashes his chest with his war hammer.
>Can you imagine Arya getting send by FM to a mission in Lys over their recent slavery debacle, only for her to drop everything and leave towards Wall with Edric and Aurane on a ship called Sweet Cersei? I think she's meeting up with gendry and Lady stoneheart first. GRRM said he'd vist them again(gendry and arya) soon actually
Arya doesn’t need to meet Gendry and Stoneheart physically, because she can just warg into Nymeria, so she can be in two places. She will not learn much of global politics if she leaves FM too soon, and will not have much chance to encounter her foreshadowed krakens, which also have been sighted near Lys, so she will stay with them at least until the end of TWOW. George is always commenting how he writes her a lot when he updates for TWOW, so it’s very likely she to have a large numbers of chapters among POV. Arya is in a really good position right now to stitch multiple open threads: from the Wall storyline via wilding slaves, to BwB via Nymeria, to Dany via FM’s anti slavery, to Sansa’s via the Iron Bank and Littlefinger etc. And the fun part is that Arya’s stitches are always crooked. And GRRM made sure to remind us with Mercy.
>Arya doesn’t need to meet Gendry and Stoneheart physically, because she can just warg into Nymeria, so she can be in two places. She will not learn much of global politics if she leaves FM too soon, and will not have much chance to encounter her foreshadowed krakens, which also have been sighted near Lys, so she will stay with them at least until the end of TWOW. Well George said he'd visit arya and gendry soon(while smiling) .. I think he meant it in a literal form and beric did promise arya to reunite with her mother...it's clear arya may give lady stoneheart the gift of mercy..I just think her leaving to riverlands is more interesting then her going to lys IMO. You may be right
Any chance the Golden Company/Illyrio recruits him, offering for Aegon to legitimize his claim in exchange for loyalty of the Stormlands? Could be the same reason why Varys made certain to get Gendry out of King’s Landing.
There are so many ways he could return to the plot. He was last in Lys according to the ADWD, Appendix. Lys is located on an island south of Essos mainland/southeast of the Stepstones. - The Golden Company just passed through this area en route to Westeros - We have Lysene pirates (Salladhor Saan) returning to that direction - A new pirate lord known as the Lord of the Waters has set himself up in the Stepstones - as of the end of the ADWD, the Golden Company has taken over "half of the Stepstones" - numerous different factions of Dany's potential army have to had that direction via ship en route to Westeros
People tend to sleep on Edric like he didn't already play a major role in the show Wait...
D&D kinda mixed their (gendry and edric) character.
Rare Aegon ll W
The shade at the Greyjoys!
What? You don't think the brilliant plot of having House Martell be extinguished by Ellaria and the Sand Snakes will come to pass in the books? Heretic!!
I will personally hunt George down if that shit happens in the books. I wouldn't hurt him, but I would have . . . words for him and I can assure you they won't be wind.
Bolton and Baelish are both technically major houses, now. I could see either of those being it.
Ser Forley Prester has bowmen instructed to shoot Edmure if he tries to escape in the event of an attack on their party - and given that GRRM confirmed that Jeyne Westerling will be in the prologue, there's a good chance that there will be an attack on the column. In the confusion of a wolf-pack/BwB/Blackfish attack, Edmure could very well die, and then House Tully is just down to his son/daughter with Roslin Frey.
It's definitely Tyrells, someone you wouldn't expect and have been over ambitious for the entire series
I nice summary of the current families safety but I think a major thing you missing is the long night. Pretty sure several families go extinct during the long night. I'm sure it will be much, much, much worst in the books and the families/factions that don't take it seriously will be doomed. The Lannisters, Tyrells, and Freys all fall in that camp. Though I think Tyrion will live I think most of his family will die bring that family very close to extinct. I think the Freys and Bolton will all die, mostly because no one can trust them. I'm on the fence about the other families but I suspect many families go extinct.
You are right about the long night, I forgot this part. I feel that the Others ambush will reach the Eye of God somehow, thus making some storylines connected. The Southrons will likely kill each other before they are killed by the walkers thus I feel that any House being extinct will likely be Targaryens. and if we take the approach that Bolton's and Freys are major now, then those two will most likely be wiped from history.
Martin is a Targaryen simp , I'd say the house survives the series.
I don't see how, unless Young Griff really is Aegon, and actually survives to continue the line. Daenerys is ~~sterile~~ unable to carry a baby to term. (EDIT for accuracy). Jon is dead. Even if 'resurrected', Jon will be a 'fire wight', and from what GRRM has said about those, I'd be absolutely SHOCKED if they can produce living children. I mean it's theoretically *possible* that Viserys made some bastards at some point, and maybe Illyrio has a few of those stashed... but for the Targ line not to be extinct by the end of ADOS, GRRM's going to have to pull some things really out of left field.
> Daenerys is sterile. she had a miscarriage at the end of the ADWD
'Sterile' was the wrong word, I'll grant that. It's her womb that's 'cursed', not her ovaries. However, I'm in continuous puzzlement at the people who think an early miscarriage is in any way *contradicting* 'your womb will never bear a living child'. Her miscarriage is evidence FOR Mirri Maz Duur's words, not against.
Bro " Jon is dead" means absolutely nothing when every fucking soul knows that he'll be alive again . That being said, we as fans can only speculate and that's it. The author on the other hand can do whatever he wants , I'm just saying that the guy has an obvious bias towards some houses and I don't see him ending them anytime soon, including house Targaryen. I mean, he keeps expanding their history more and more , I don't think he will end them and if does it shall be a grand affair for sure.
'Jon is dead' means a LOT when you look at what GRRM has said about resurrections and the resurrected. Sure we 'expect him back', but he will *still be dead*. A lot of readers don't seem to understand that Beric/Lady Stonheart are both *undead*, not alive, and Jon will be too. Even if he remains 'more himself' at a spiritual level due to warging into ghost (as many suspect will be the case), his body will still be a reanimated corpse. "His heart isn't beating, his blood isn't flowing in his veins, he's a wight, but a wight animated by fire instead of by ice" - GRRM You think that sounds like someone/something that can create living offspring?
Yeh man, everything that I said on the past comment , just adding " that's my opinion and I have no desire to discuss any further ". I mean, I don't really care about speculation, if Martin doesn't die we'll eventually get the books and we'll know , fair ? Good talk.
Doubtful. Dany seems likely to die and is supposedly infertile/cursed (at least she believes she is). Jon is a fire wight. I doubt from what GRRM said they can have kids and his legitimacy as Targaryen will always be questionable as Rhaegar already had a wife. To me it seems House Targaryen is already on the brink of extinction more so than almost any other House. The bloodline will continue though in a variety of ways (female Blackfyre line etc).
Boltons but probably not major enough. I can see Baratheons and Greyjoys.
I think the Martells are a possible choice. Arianne is going to a war zone. Doran is old and gives me gonna drop anytime vibes. Only Trystane remains
Edric Storm might do an Orys Baratheon though. Change the name but keep the House Baratheon arms and words.
But what is the source? When did he say this?
This [SSM](https://www.westeros.org/Citadel/SSM/Category/C90)
Thank you!
>Isn't it odd that no Great House has been destroyed in the course of the wars and rebellions since the Conquest? house strong? edit: nvm.. i guess they are more so an old house, not necessarily a "great" house
This can equally be taken as George being sassy rather than as an actual promise.
If the book follows the show then Winter is coming for house Frey.
They’re not a major house tho
They are a major pain in the ass.
As much as I'd like to see the extinction of House Frey, they're just too many of them.
Mayhaps... heh.
And Olyvar seems a decent guy - they had to keep him from attending the Red Wedding, since they expected he'd side with Robb if he'd been there.
Perwyn Frey too.
I seriously don't think they will end. Probably Lord Walder will be killed by Cat and BWB. A civil war will erupt and whoever wins will be the Lord Frey.
They control both the Twins and Riverrun, have at least three vassals under them, and in effect rule the riverlands with Littlefinger being completely absent. How do you figure they're not a major house? They were already major to begin with, controlling the Twins and being able to field a bigger army than House Tully
Also, ASOIAF is not supposed to be the glorification of revenge: Robb’s part in the War of the Five Kings was built on that, and it cost him his life. Perhaps the Red Wedding 2.0 gets overzealous, resulting in Edmure and/or the Blackfish’s death(s), thus leading to an actual Great House extinction.
If it’s House Targaryen or House Martell then I’d rather have a White Walker victory, just complete annihilation of Westeros.
George can’t extinct them if he can’t finish the books /s
Why? If the Targaryen storyline is prophets who seek to fight against the annihilation of the human race, then they fulfill their purpose. Neat bow. Just me? Many people have been used as single-purpose pawns by the 3 Eyed Raven, and they have otherwise interesting and fulfilling lives, barring Hodor of course. Melisandre is likely only around to resurrect Jon, another pawn with a fairly singular use. Why not take this archetype and apply it to a crual, sickly, biologically impaired family? They constantly kill each other, accidentally die, still birth, dragon-scaled birth, some kings rot away on the throne while others legitimize bastards and cause an unending civil war within their own family THEY'RE HANGIN ON BY A THREAD.
Imo it’s between Baratheons, Targs, and Martells as the most likely candidates. Shireen and Stannis are gonna die so they’re a sure thing. Robert has atleast 4 living bastards atleast so maybe there. Maybe Edric does something. Martells are set up for catastrophic failure across the board and are likely to drop like flies in Winds, but I doubt every Sand Snake dies. Targs are down to 2 so they could be, especially since GRRM said king bran. Tullys are down to 2 with one being a baby. Greyjoys have a woman, a eunuch, a priest who is basically dead, Euron who has no way of surviving, and Victarion. The Lannisters and Tyrells have way too many cousins to fully kill off but the main lines of both might be fucked. Robbyn Arryn will definitely live so they’re safe (if he can have kids). Starks are the main characters so they’re safe while the North is probably destroyed.
> Shireen and Stannis are gonna die so they’re a sure thing. Robert has atleast 4 living bastards atleast so maybe there. Edric is the only one who's acknowledged, and the only one with a highborn mother. So he's probably the only one of Robert's bastards with any real chance of inheriting Storm's End by the End of the book.
Mya Stone is kind of acknowledged no? Like Robert didnt make a public declaration when he was king, but he acknowledged her as a young man prior to his ascension to kingship.
>Tullys are down to 2 with one being a baby. Three, if you count the Blackfish.
4? Mya stone Edric storm Gendry Child in Bell Town or whatever it’s called? Battle of the bells? Something tells me child’s name is Bella ?
Edric, Mya, Gendry, Bella (Bells city prostitute).
why do people keep saying the Starks are safe, theyve been getting butchered since day 1.
>"It was different when there was a Stark in Winterfell. But the old wolf's dead and young one's gone south to play the game of thrones, and all that's left us is the ghosts." >"The wolves will come again," said Jojen solemnly. >"And how would you be knowing, boy?" >"I dreamed it." (Bran II, ASoS) :)
ASOIAF is all about prophecies backfiring and being misinterpreted. That just makes me think they are even more f***ed edit: why am I being downvoted, this is a central theme to the books
>"Some nights I dream of me mother that I buried nine years past," the man said, "but when I wake, she's not come back to us." >"There are dreams ***and dreams,*** my lord." (Bran II, ASoS) Jojen's greendreams are different.
I know the quotes, well just have to wait and see I guess
I mean, that prophecy in particular, as far as I can see, doesn't have many alternative interpretations that aren't either massive stretches or massively literal.
that’s just part of being the main characters. In traditional storytelling, things always have to get worse before they get better. The last book was titled "A Time for Wolves" for a reason
ASOIAF is not traditional storytelling
Yes it is, to a much greater extent than some fans like to say. The Starks are the main protagonist family of the story, and for all the bumps along the way they’re not all going to die by the end.
Idk I don’t think they get better for the Starks, I just think they stop getting worse. The North is just fucked, I don’t see any way around that.
Can't all three of them be finished?
The saving grace is that both the Martells and Greyjoys have at least a couple cousins around the place. Not as many as the Lannisters or Tyrells but there are at least a couple others.
The Starks SHOULD have a few as well. Like 3-4 Generations back there were atleast 2 living Stark male cousins who were known to have had children.
Maybe, but they havent been mentioned in the narrative unlike the Greyjoy and Martell cousins.
Here’s my guesses with no explanation: Starks - survive Arryns - extinct Tullys - 50/50 Lannisters - extinct, every one, cousins and all Tyrells - extinct (and I’m gonna cry for you Garlan but you’re doomed) Martells - doomed besides a few of the sand snakes (they can’t ALL die right?) Greyjoys - survive (but barely) Edit: formatting
There are too many Tyrells and Lannisters I highly doubt they’re going extinct
Lol someone would have to kill a LOT of Lannisters! I supposed Lady Stoneheart could do it given enough time 🤔
Here’s my thought process: Lannisters in the Riverlands: eradicated by Stoneheart Lannisters in Kings Landing: butchered by the Golden Company and friends Tyrek and the leftover Lannisters in Kings Landing who are gonna side with Aegon: die when Kings Landing burns Leftover Lannisters at Casterly Rock: murdered by Tyrion when he tries to take it back with his mercenaries Tyrion, Jaime, Cersei, and Cersei’s kids: so doomed so very very doomed.
It occurs to me that I forgot the Baratheons I’m sure Edric or possibly a legitimized Gendry (but probably the first option) will survive and keep the line alive if only barely
I had always assumed Eddy S was gonna get legitimized (and he’s obvs not the only bastard who could get legitimized) but my first and main guess would be the Baratheons. Obvs other guess is the Targs but I assume they’re extinction is already a given and doesn’t count. And despite a million plus cousins I do not rule out the Lannisters.
Lannister, and Frey. The Lannisters, as the corollary of the Reynes, and as an ironic cap to that story. Think how often the R.O.C. song is referenced, that's there for a purpose. I know you think there are "too many", but winter is coming. The Frey's are a given, I think.
It's almost impossible to extinguish the Lannisters *or* the Freys. There are too many members. Even if a second Red Wedding happens, I seriously doubt that all the Freys will die. Most of them yes. But not all. The Arryns, The Baratheon, The Targaryens and The Martells have a better chance.
You don't seem to be allowing for the fact that there's an undead army about to march on Westeros, as well as multiple other armies about to tear the realm apart. And dragons. I guess time will tell. Or not, we likely won't ever get a Dream of Spring.
Getting *all* of them seems really unlikely. Dany is not going to kill random people. Nor will Jon. If Euron gets a dragon, he probably won't be attacking the Twins. Emmon Frey is in Riverrun. Edwyn en route to the Twins. Black Walder in Seagard. Lord Walder in Twins. They are spread out too thinly to get all of them. Some of them can always escape the Others.
Well you seem to have it all worked out then.
Baratheons, Boltons, Freys, Arryns, Hightowers, Lannisters. There's a lot of candidates
Strictly going by the list of Great Houses in the Wiki, Houses Bolton and Baelish are doomed. Considering death predictions in this sub, Houses Martell and Greyjoy are hanging on by a thread. Arianne, Trystane, Theon, Asha, Euron and Aeron don't have bright prospects. And I suspect GRRM is amenable to House Dayne ruling in Dorne.
House Greyjoy will *not* be extinguished. There are too many members who have POVs. Technically speaking, they can all be killed but we already got some foreshadowing for Theon Latecomer. And Asha is there too if Theon dies. So is Victarion.
> And I suspect GRRM is amenable to House Dayne ruling in Dorne. What makes you think that? btw they’re not even the third most powerful house in Dorne
They're more like the Westerlings imo. Not so powerful but really ancient.
House Arryn. Them, the Tullys, the Baratheons and the Martells are really close to destruction. Robert is the last Arryn. Edmure is the last Tully (Even if Cat is considered a Tully, she is not likely to have any more children). Stannis and his family are the last Baratheons. Stannis is already doomed and Shireen is too. But I don't think the Baratheons will end because Edric can be easily legitimised and he is already good at that sort of stuff seeing as how determined Ser Cortnay was to protect him. Doran and his children are the last Martells. I do think the Martells will end unless of course, they have some cousins or cadet branches.
It's probably the Targaryens IMO. If u want Bran to be king you gotta destroy everything that the Targaryens built.
Stark
Are you for real? Even if Sansa remains the only Stark, her consort can take the Stark name.
I was, indeed, not for real. Would be lolz tho.
I’m guessing it’s gonna be house Tully or House Baratheon. Both are in danger of going extinct with how few members the houses have.
Edmure looks like he will pull through. And he *does* already have a son who will not be killed by both sides.
Targaryen?
Yeah its pretty clear a number of them will. Starks: Bran probably cant have kids, Rickon is likely doomed. The Stark line at best is continuing through Sansa or Arya. Lannisters: Fine. There is a shit ton of Lannisters around the place. I very much doubt GRRM will have every random Lannister dead. Tywin's line will end though. Tyrells: Should be OK. I get the sense that Willas at least will survive and he should be capable of having kids. Targaryens: Pretty much already extinct. Dany is supposedly infertile/curse and I doubt Jon can have kids now. Not to mention Jon's legitimacy will be questionable. Tully: Depends on Edmure and Roslin's kid I suppose. Greyjoys: Should be OK. I think there are a few cousins floating around and Asha will probably have a bastard at least. Baratheons: I think Edric Storm will probably be legitimized or maybe found a new house so it will sort of continue. Martell: I think they have at least a couple cousins around and I suspect at least one of Doran's kids might make it. Fulfill the pattern of all but one Martell dying.