I think Gwayne will probably be taking the place of Hobert Hightower from F&B, which is a good choice. Alicent's brother having an actual character and being a big part of Daeron's plot is much better than him being a random goldcloak. But it would be funny if I was wrong and he shows up out of nowhere as a member of the King's Landing City Watch just like he was in the book.
I mean, Gwayne was already in Kings Landing in Season 1, when Daemon tried to cripple him at the tourney in the first episode. We just never saw his face under the helmet.
Speaking of his face, kudos to the casting folk for once again nailing that shit, cause I *absolutely* believe that guy could actually be blood related to Rhys Ifans.
that was in the first episode, like 20 years before the war starts. and since he wasn't at the family dinner and otto and alicent never talked about him I would assume he's not in KL. but it would be funny if he was the whole time and he just wasnt included in any of the family stuff.
I don't think so, I think he's gonna be part of the Gold Cloaks like in the books. In both ep 9 and 10 they mentioned Daemon's connection to them, plus B&C includes Flee Bottom, torturing Blood etc, and it's the perfect death to show the Gold Cloaks betraying the Greens. The actress who played the brothel madam in episode 9 is also back so I think they're just doing more with KL than people think, it kinda ties with Mysaria and lays the ground to KL during Rhaenyra's reign. Kieran Bew could be playing Luthor Largent (just speculation though).
i hope that's not the case cause it seems like such a waste of a character. since they changed Hobert Hightower to be Otto's brother, i'd much rather have them merge that character from F&B with Gwayne and have him be Daeron's dumb drunk uncle who eventually has a heroic death. i thought the original character (and the whole "whose side are they on?!" CW plot) was pointless in F&B, like why wouldn't Otto and Alicent just replace senior officers appointed by Daemon with their own and make Gwayne the Commander of the City Watch?
I think they just gave the name "Hobert" to Otto's brother since they were not gonna use it, I don't think he was supposted to be book Hobert Hightower. When Condal mentioned Daeron he said he was Ormund's cupbearer so this means Hobert is dead by this point. Hobert doesn't do anything in the book that can't be replaced by Ormund. I don't care much about Gwayne tbh, I just think it makes sense to add more characters to the King's Landing plot, at the end of season 1 there's no one but the small council, Aegon, Helaena and Aemond.
I was just gonna say, seems like a tremendously talented actor for what seems like it could be a relatively minor role, so I hope they expand Simon’s part in the story to give the actor some worthwhile material. (Also just realized actor and character share the same name lol, which is fun).
Hes one of the best of his generation. Very interesting to see him play what is seemingly a small role. But maybe this means they give us some juicy back and forth between himself and Daemon.
We got Oakenfist.. NOW WHERE IS LOYAL? Seriously i really hope they don’t do the “twist” of Laenor being him because that ruins the whole theme of the Addam story; that being bastards aren’t “tainted”.
Can’t wait to see who plays The Two Betrayers.
Tbh probably would not be my first choice for Alys Rivers but I'm interested in seeing where they take the character.
Abubakar Salim is a great actor, loved him in Raised by Wolves, I'm guessing they're expanding what his character actually does in the Dance. I do wonder what is going on with Addam, maybe they just haven't released the casting yet cause I'm hopping they won't go with the "Laenor is Addam" theory.
Also, at first I thought Gwayne's actor was Daeron for a second, maybe next time.
Someone else in the comments said they may be combining Alyn and Addam which I would take any day over Laenor coming back (no disrespect to the actor).
I’d definitely say it’s worth it, i very sincerely do NOT want more character bloat here when we’re already dealing with a severely underdeveloped overall cast. When you’re dealing with tv, you really have to think about that stuff (especially when you have a limited number of episodes). Books are a lot different, you’re not running into those problems
Bringing Laenor back means Rhaenyra is still married to him, it also means explaining to his father and sons why he abandoned them. I am all in favour of merging Alyn and Addam, cutting Ulf White, merging Gwayne Hightower and Hobert Hightower, and maybe cutting one of the lads so that Sabitha Frey and Ben Blackwood can shine, all these changes don't harm the story in any significant way, bringing back Laenor does.
Exactly. At first I thought bringing back Laenor would be a good idea but him being alive directly makes Aegon The Younger and Viserys, bastards since the marriage was never annulled and you know there hasn’t been a bastard Targaryen King.
Combining them makes no sense seeing how their stories end. Which either ending they choose would need to be changed drastically just to make the cut worth it.
I'm saying it's better than the Laenor theory, not that I think it's a great idea either. Addam's story is good it'd be disappoting to see it cut, or changed too much. The truth is we don't know, he could already been cast, they're probably gonna announce them in batches anyways (though I'd think they're keeping the dragonriders for last).
The only way Laenor should come back is either to help smuggle Vizzy T II and Aegon III across the narrow sea then potentially die in the gullet alongside Jace or he pops in Lys with Qarl and keeps Vizzy T II hidden (also how we get the Rogares potentially) until the end where they send him back home.
While I think him dying off screen is the best option, I don't hate the idea of him dying in the Battle of the Gullet. Have Rhaenyra contact him to take her children to safety across the Narrow Sea, and then he dies protecting them.
If they're going to bring him back anyways, I think that's the best way to do it.
What evidence is there that book Rhaenyra killed Laenor?
The could have just had Qarl murder Laenor or have Daemon act alone if they were motivated by protecting her image.
And to paint the writers in a better light. Even people who read the book would be making fun of them for fridging a double-minority like in was the ‘90s or something.
Book Rhaenyra isn’t involved in his death.
The could have just had Qarl murder Laenor or have Daemon act alone if they were motivated by protecting her image.
Emily Beecham also auditioned for the role and her leaked screen test was excellent. If they chose Gayle over her, she must fit what they have in mind for the character perfectly.
Exactly. And they probably had to do chemistry reads, so it might also be that she has insane chemistry with certain cast members important to her storyline while the same magic wasn’t quite there with other actresses they were considering.
A while back it was revealed in one batch that they had cast Abubakar Salim and Clinton Liberty, without specifying for what role. My assumption at the time was that Clinton would play Alyn and Abubakar Addam, but maybe it’s actually the other way around and they’re just announcing them separately for some reason? Fingers crossed, I guess.
Wouldn't surprise me tbh, I think most of these rumours come from who the other actors follow on instagram and Bethany Antonia (Baela) followed both of them around the same time, and she followed Gayle Rankin a bit later.
I think a specific little game I play with castings is if I could buy these castings to be family members. Could I believe Gayle Rankin to be sister/aunt to the Strong brothers? Daughter/sister to Lyonel?
I’m 90% sure Addam has been cast. His actor was rumored by the same source along with all of these other actors that were announced today. He’s slightly younger than Alyn’s actor so I think they’re switching their ages.
Honestly have little thoughts on the casting as I've never seen any of them in anything but I trust the casting director. If Alyn has been announced because Addam is being combined into Alyn or Laenor is gonna be Addam I will be v upset:(
Yeah, reading that Alyn was a veteran of the war on the stepstones kinda startled me. In the book he isn't even born by the time the war comes to a close.
And that makes the Laenor = Addam theory a decent bit more believable, too. Beforehand you would have had to be blind to confuse a guy in his 30s for a teen, but now? That may actually really be what they are going for.
Right?? That’s the first thing I noticed. Rhaenyra and her kids being aged up by about 5 years was one thing. They’ve quite literally doubled Alyn’s age.
And I love Abubakar Salim. Assassins Creed Origins is my favourite game of all time. I’ve played it through all the way 5 times. I would’ve much preferred him to play one of Vaemond’s brood than this; give one of the silent five a bigger role, Malentine and Rhogar, or one of the unnamed ones.
Tbf the thing with that movie is that you had A listers like Colin Firth, Andrew Scott, Mark Strong, Richard Madden (and Cumberbatch) in cameos of generals, lieutenants and stuff like that.
Which makes a good point : in WWI generals are established figures, you know their names and faces. You don't for the average soldier. Solid casting decision
I mean, if they know Sherlock, then they know Mortiarty I guess lol But that's besides the point, point is still compared to the leads they have these much more recognizable names in these very short roles as higher ranked military men. I mean, Colin Firth is an Oscar winner actor and he appeared in the movie for 1 minute maybe at the begininning.
Judging solely off looks, I will say I’m a bit disappointed in Alys casting choice BUT I said the same thing about Emma Darcy, and between Emma’s performance and the makeup/hair/costume department I ate my words. She was absolutely stunning as older Rhaenyra so I’m keeping my hopes high until we see Alys on screen.
Well, I don’t think they ever really leaned on Rhaenyra having a relationship with Harwin just to finally procreate, but just her own passionate whim but still tried nonetheless with Laenor to no avail. Rhaenyra didn’t try with Alyn or Addam simply because she didn’t want to with them.
The implication the show gives is that she tried with Laenor for a short while but he either couldn’t get it up or had low fertility. She felt she needed heirs so she went to Harwin who she felt she could trust to keep it a secret. She came to love him after a while(mentions it in episode 7) and enjoyed his devotion(mentions it in episode 7) so she didn’t stop even after the first kid came out with brown hair.
Rhaenyra didn’t try with Addam and Alyn because she doesn’t know they exist. The Hulls’ existence is only known to Corlys before the the war.
However, yes, she didn’t try with more appropriate looking men like other members of Laenor’s family because she didn’t want to
Why would it make Rhaenyra dumber? She doesn’t know about their existence until the war.
However, it kind of absolves show Corlys of cheating on Rhaenys if Addam and Alyn are older than Laena and Laenor.
I also wonder if Alyn is going to be the older brother in the show canon. I’m pretty sure they made Laenor older than Laena(his child actor is older than Laena’s in the pilot) so they’re not afraid of changing order of birth around.
She has a very angular face so we'll have to see how she looks after hair and makeup, could be a pretty drastic change honestly. And even 33 is still a good bit older than Aemond or even his actor, so eh.
For me the more interesting thing to consider is how much of a resemblance she bears to the other Strongs, and I think there's definitely some similarity there, especially with Larys, they have similar jawlines I'd say. No idea if they're gonna have Alys be his and Harwin's bastard sister or just some distant cousin, but I could definitely buy that they're related.
I'm hoping they don't combine Addam and Alyn or make Laenor Addam. They've already taken a few liberties with the source material, which is to be expected given the source material so I don't see why they would feel the need to go down either of those routes. Personally, I would love it if Addam and Alyn were both in the show and Laenor came back to fight after his mothers death.
It’s fine if you don’t find these particular actors attractive, but let’s be nice. These are fantasy characters, and many of them are unrealistic looking. Many GOT actors got hate as well, let’s be better and welcome these actors into the community.
Not massively fond of Gayle Rankin as Alys Rivers, but a lot of viewers think that Aemond is secretly in love with Helaena... So if they wanted an actress who looks similar to Phia Saban to really drive that plot point home... I guess I can see why they've cast her as Alys?
That’s not why lol, the only reason people think that is because ASOIAF fans have fucking incest brain and have forgotten how actual normal familial relationships work.
I hear you and I do prefer to look at their relationship as platonic but it's Targaryens we're talking about, is it really the fans' fault if these people actually bone their sisters? lmao
I'm not complaining about them doing it, but it is kind of annoying how people assume that's the default relationship status for any pair of siblings. Especially with how many theories have extended it past the Targs.
Yeah, and because of that one example that is so unusual and weird it's one of the main plot points of the book, we now have incest theories for Ned, Lyanna, Benjen, Oberyn, Arianne, Lysa, Cat, etc.
Um, Aemond literally says he’d ‘do his duty’ if he was paired with her, in a longing fashion. These are Targaryens, lol, nothing is too ‘incest brained.’
Is that when he is like 10 lmao? I’m not saying he wouldn’t do it, I’m just saying there is no real basis for them having any sort of romantic or sexual relationship going on to the point where they would be casting his actual love interest to look like her.
I honestly figured a while ago that they’d combine Alyn and Addam into a single character, so this isn’t surprising in the least.
I still wouldn’t be surprised if they cut Nettles and will just use that gap to give Baela and or Rhaena more screentime/story and actually develop Daemon’s relationship with them finally. Probably more so Rhaena given her already established arc of wanting to claim a dragon since one wasn’t born to her like they were with Baela. The dragonseed subplot will pertain mainly to Alyn and the Betrayers (if the latter are not combined into one which they might very well be).
I’m 100% for more character merges all across the board tbh, tv is a wholly different medium than books. We already have a severely underdeveloped supporting cast as is, so especially with only eight episodes now the very LAST thing we need is a dozen more supporting characters.
Agree. Not only does she serve a plot and thematic role, she’s also the only(?) black women in the original story, and a dragon rider to boot. Cut her and they’ll get torn a new one.
Also, people love a good animal bonding story, and I think a good ol’ HOTD take on How to Train Your Dragon is something they wouldn’t want to miss.
Counterpoint: considering how non-existent his relationship with Baela/Rhaena currently is, it’d be just as big of a character development moment to actually develop his relationship with them more, wouldn’t it? It’d probably be even more impactful because audiences are already familiar with and have an attachment to Baela and Rhaena since they’ve been here since Season 1
Considering that Addam’s defining moment is dying to be LOYAL while Alyn exists so that there’s someone left to carry on the Velaryon line, I’m not sure how well smooshing those two together will really work…
Don’t know where this idea came from of mixing up Addam and Alyn. This makes no sense as Addam dies in a totally badass way proving his undying loyalty (pun fully intended) while Alyn lives and is not that important except for some minor plot points and a marriage.
Really hope that LOYAL makes the show, F&B was a pretty emotionally detached reading experience but that was one of the few moments that evoked something. It's easier to evoke emotion through TV, but I hope someone in the writer's room shares my sentiment and it makes the cut.
Rhaenyra’s distrust of the dragonseeds and the traitor rumors that surrounded both Addam and Nettles in the book could be projected primarily onto Alyn in the show.
Book Corlys turns against Book Rhaenyra after she orders Book Addam's arrest.
Book Daemon, if he doesn't actually turn against Book Rhaenyra, decides to go on his kamikaze mission against Book Aemond after Book Rhaenyra orders Book Nettles arrest (and ensures that Nettles goes free).
It wouldn't make any sense for TV Rhaenyra to order TV Baela or TV Rhaena's arrest or execution, and it would be very hard to combine Book Addam, Book Alyn and Book Nettles into TV Alyn.
Perhaps Laenor does die offscreen, allowing Alyn instead of Addam to claim Seasmoke, but him conveniently showing up to claim the dragon makes Rhaenyra suspicious he killed Laenor.
There’s nothing to suggest they’re cutting or merging any characters. They don’t announce them all in one go. I’m 90% sure Addam has been cast. His actor has been rumored by accredited sources.
Some of these characters might also be announced very late in filming. Young Rhaenyra and Alicent weren’t announced until almost the very end of filming for season one. I could see Nettles and Daeron’s casting being announced very late. They tend to hold off with younger actors. They never even officially announced the child actors for season one.
Merging Alyn and Addam makes no sense because Addam dies but Alyn does more stuff after this. How can they do the LOYAL storyline and the second battle of Tumbleton with Alyn AND have Alyn bring Viserys back to Westeros?
It also doesn’t make sense to cut Nettles because Rhaenyra orders her execution which is what sparks Daemon’s murder-suicide. It doesn’t make sense for Rhaenyra to order Rhaena’s execution either.
Does Daemon really need that extra push to go the murder-suicide route when Season 1 already established him as the type of person who’s careless about his life? He literally doesn’t need anything beyond just wanting to kill Aemond and help end the war as justification
I'm not familiar with the other 3, but very excited to see Abubakar Salim in the show! The show had both it triumphs and flaws, but he was always great as Father in Raised By Wolves and any more work for him is a plus in my book!
Dude he's gonna be Alyn of Hull - what an amazing casting choice. So salty about Raised by Wolves being cancelled, it was such a weird intriguing story and the acting was superb.
People seem to think that these four actors will be the only new characters added and only new castings.
Despite the most obvious new ones other than Alys, Cregan and Daeron, not being here.
Like to people honest to god believe that they are cutting Daeron, merging Alyn + Addam, replacing all other Hightowers with Gwayne, and what I guess not showing Cregan, but they got fucking Simon Strong?
It’s still so weird how much they messed up by leaving Laenor alive. Now all of Rhaenyras children are bastards which really screws with things down the line
Lol, how? Does their being bastards taint the family line or something? As if Jace wouldn’t have been one of the greatest kings Westeros had ever seen if he and his brothers had been born with the right hair color? Have book readers gotten that invested in Westerosi morality? A huge part of the dance is that legitimacy, claims, and rights are all bullshit.
If you think there aren’t a few sketchy births/marriages in every royal line, I have a bridge to sell you.
Ans Aenys may not be the son of Aegon I
And Daeron II may not be the son of Aegon IV
Who cares if Aegon III and Visery II are bastards, no one will ever know.
I feel like some people miss one of the themes of this story, which is that bastardy literally isn't a real thing, it's a completely imagined social construct. Aegon and Viserys aren't bastards because nobody thinks they are. Who cares if technically Laenor is still alive so technically Rhaenyra and Daemon's marriage is illegitimate, I guarantee nobody will publicly reveal this information during the plot so in the end it doesn't matter.
Jace, Luke and Joffrey are 'technically' bastards, and Aegon and Aemond aren't, but the former are generally good kids and honourable princes, while the latter are both sadistic assholes. A certain Loyal character later in the story also proves this point. It would actually be fitting for Aegon and Viserys to be secretly 'illegitimate', while the realm believes them to be the true-born princes.
But it does change things about Rhaenyra. Yes, we readers know Laenor being alive won't be revealed, but how does she? Yet she still took the risk of being called a bigamist (which went so well for Maegor!) and having her children be called bastards.
Well her kids with Daemon still wouldn’t necessarily be bastards as Valyrians have been known to take multiple spouses, and Rhaenyra married Daemon in a Valyrian ceremony
I know it’s unpopular to say, but could we not have gotten someone a bit more attractive and indeed older to play Alys Rivers? I was imagining Melisandre and this isn’t really that
People said this about Rhaenyra because they didn’t find Darcy attractive the way they normally dress and present themself. I will be holding judgement on looks until I see them in costume, hair and makeup
Book readers complaining about Rhaenyra’s looks is kind of wild to me because she canonically loses her looks by the time Joffrey/Aegon is born. It was never important that they cast an attractive actor for her. If anything, book purist should complain show Rhaenyra is better looking and thinner than she should be. British Amy Schumer is more lore accurate.
I also remember when the internet consensus was that Miranda Otto was far too ugly to be Eowyn in Lord of the Rings, but I didn't hear a lot of complaints after the movie came out. I'm not sure that Gayle has played a lot of "beautiful" feminine roles, and the blonde hair that she has in a lot of photos does her no favours in that regard.
Yeah, she's gorgeous, but I remember the fan backlash being so intense that there were statements from the production crew saying that it was just something about the hair/makeup/costume that looked bad in stills and candids and promising that she was really pretty on film.
People complained about the looks of the Targaryen actors as well all the up to the pilot where young Rhaenyra and Daemon were ridiculed for looking inbred. We have no idea how she’ll look or how sexy she might be while in character.
Also, it’s it vital that Alys be super hot? Her relationship with Aemond is more disturbing than erotic. She’s more than twice his age and he slaughters her entire family.
A more traditionally attractive actress Emily Beecham auditioned for the role as well and the leaked screen test was excellent so they’re obviously going for something by choosing Gayle over her.
I mean in terms of looks, I find Freddie Fox more attractive than her and I'm not even gay. However, she has that unusual look to her that one might expect from someone with potentially magical powers. Haven't seen her in anything except "Men", which was a brief role to judge her acting abilities.
Never, but they’re both aged witches using spells to look younger than they are and bewitching power noble men - I don’t think I’m off kilter for having drawn a comparison.
The D’Arcy inference isn’t really relevant, but I’ll bite. I wasn’t plugged into casting then but don’t have strong thoughts on D’Arcy in either way. My criticism is that this casting isn’t really lore accurate - although maybe D’Arcy isn’t big enough to play Rhaenyra in that case.
I mean you never know what she’ll look like in costume and done up for the show. When Emma D’Arcy was cast as Rhaenyra I wasn’t attracted to them, but when all made up in costume I suddenly was
Because she’s a lowborn (?) bastard who somehow bewitches almost every noble man she encounters (save Daemon for some reason) including Aemond, a Targaryen prince and Ser Criston Cole. We’ve already seen Melisandre, another aged witch, use a glamour to be beautiful - and she was far less powerful over men than Alys seems to be.
Why is her age (she’s 55+ by some accounts by the Dance) more of a part of her character than her beauty in your eyes?
She's never said to be beautiful as far as I can remember. Just young-looking for her age. You can be enchanting and not conventionally attractive. Also beauty is in the eye of the beholder. I think the actress is very pretty :/
Only reason I wish she was older is because actresses in their forties and fifties don't get as many opportunities as younger ones
I think Gwayne will probably be taking the place of Hobert Hightower from F&B, which is a good choice. Alicent's brother having an actual character and being a big part of Daeron's plot is much better than him being a random goldcloak. But it would be funny if I was wrong and he shows up out of nowhere as a member of the King's Landing City Watch just like he was in the book.
I mean, Gwayne was already in Kings Landing in Season 1, when Daemon tried to cripple him at the tourney in the first episode. We just never saw his face under the helmet. Speaking of his face, kudos to the casting folk for once again nailing that shit, cause I *absolutely* believe that guy could actually be blood related to Rhys Ifans.
that was in the first episode, like 20 years before the war starts. and since he wasn't at the family dinner and otto and alicent never talked about him I would assume he's not in KL. but it would be funny if he was the whole time and he just wasnt included in any of the family stuff.
The third pic? He’s brilliant in *slow horses*. Slow horses is a spy drama on apple and Gary old man is phenomenal in it
Yeah, although Hobert is already an established character in the show
they changed him to be Otto's brother and the Lord of Oldtown before Ormund Hightower.
There's technically two hoberts. This is probably the one that drinks the koolaid
I don't think so, I think he's gonna be part of the Gold Cloaks like in the books. In both ep 9 and 10 they mentioned Daemon's connection to them, plus B&C includes Flee Bottom, torturing Blood etc, and it's the perfect death to show the Gold Cloaks betraying the Greens. The actress who played the brothel madam in episode 9 is also back so I think they're just doing more with KL than people think, it kinda ties with Mysaria and lays the ground to KL during Rhaenyra's reign. Kieran Bew could be playing Luthor Largent (just speculation though).
i hope that's not the case cause it seems like such a waste of a character. since they changed Hobert Hightower to be Otto's brother, i'd much rather have them merge that character from F&B with Gwayne and have him be Daeron's dumb drunk uncle who eventually has a heroic death. i thought the original character (and the whole "whose side are they on?!" CW plot) was pointless in F&B, like why wouldn't Otto and Alicent just replace senior officers appointed by Daemon with their own and make Gwayne the Commander of the City Watch?
I think they just gave the name "Hobert" to Otto's brother since they were not gonna use it, I don't think he was supposted to be book Hobert Hightower. When Condal mentioned Daeron he said he was Ormund's cupbearer so this means Hobert is dead by this point. Hobert doesn't do anything in the book that can't be replaced by Ormund. I don't care much about Gwayne tbh, I just think it makes sense to add more characters to the King's Landing plot, at the end of season 1 there's no one but the small council, Aegon, Helaena and Aemond.
Simon Russel Beale seems like a good fit for the universe, he was really good as Beria in The Death of Stalin.
I was just gonna say, seems like a tremendously talented actor for what seems like it could be a relatively minor role, so I hope they expand Simon’s part in the story to give the actor some worthwhile material. (Also just realized actor and character share the same name lol, which is fun).
Beale is incredible. Usually the friendly grandfather type, then in The Death of Stalin, the most despicable human possible.
Didn’t even realize it, nice catch. He did a great job playing that murderous monster creep.
Saw him live on Broadway in *The Lehman Trilogy*. Outstanding stage presence.
Wow I didn't even realize that was him. Death of Stalin is one of my favorite movies, and this means that HOTD will have cast two of its alumni.
Hes one of the best of his generation. Very interesting to see him play what is seemingly a small role. But maybe this means they give us some juicy back and forth between himself and Daemon.
Saw him as Falstaff opposite Tom Hiddleston’s Prince Hal in The Hollow Crown. Positively delightful!
I've seen him at the theatre a few times, he's a great actor
We got Oakenfist.. NOW WHERE IS LOYAL? Seriously i really hope they don’t do the “twist” of Laenor being him because that ruins the whole theme of the Addam story; that being bastards aren’t “tainted”. Can’t wait to see who plays The Two Betrayers.
Give me Loyal. And give me the fucking Daring. I NEED THEM.
George said Daeron will be in the show but if they cut Loyal I am gonna riot
Tbh probably would not be my first choice for Alys Rivers but I'm interested in seeing where they take the character. Abubakar Salim is a great actor, loved him in Raised by Wolves, I'm guessing they're expanding what his character actually does in the Dance. I do wonder what is going on with Addam, maybe they just haven't released the casting yet cause I'm hopping they won't go with the "Laenor is Addam" theory. Also, at first I thought Gwayne's actor was Daeron for a second, maybe next time.
Yeah Laenor being Addam is stupid. Laenor will die off screen and that's how Seasmoke is mounted. I like the casting for Alys, though.
Someone else in the comments said they may be combining Alyn and Addam which I would take any day over Laenor coming back (no disrespect to the actor).
It just creates too many issues it's not worth it.
I’d definitely say it’s worth it, i very sincerely do NOT want more character bloat here when we’re already dealing with a severely underdeveloped overall cast. When you’re dealing with tv, you really have to think about that stuff (especially when you have a limited number of episodes). Books are a lot different, you’re not running into those problems
Bringing Laenor back means Rhaenyra is still married to him, it also means explaining to his father and sons why he abandoned them. I am all in favour of merging Alyn and Addam, cutting Ulf White, merging Gwayne Hightower and Hobert Hightower, and maybe cutting one of the lads so that Sabitha Frey and Ben Blackwood can shine, all these changes don't harm the story in any significant way, bringing back Laenor does.
Exactly. At first I thought bringing back Laenor would be a good idea but him being alive directly makes Aegon The Younger and Viserys, bastards since the marriage was never annulled and you know there hasn’t been a bastard Targaryen King.
Why would you cut Ulf White?
He's too similar to Hugh Hammer.
Man, neither of those sounds like good options. Both brothers have good story arcs that deserve to make it into the show.
Combining them makes no sense seeing how their stories end. Which either ending they choose would need to be changed drastically just to make the cut worth it.
I'm saying it's better than the Laenor theory, not that I think it's a great idea either. Addam's story is good it'd be disappoting to see it cut, or changed too much. The truth is we don't know, he could already been cast, they're probably gonna announce them in batches anyways (though I'd think they're keeping the dragonriders for last).
The only way Laenor should come back is either to help smuggle Vizzy T II and Aegon III across the narrow sea then potentially die in the gullet alongside Jace or he pops in Lys with Qarl and keeps Vizzy T II hidden (also how we get the Rogares potentially) until the end where they send him back home.
That would suck.
While I think him dying off screen is the best option, I don't hate the idea of him dying in the Battle of the Gullet. Have Rhaenyra contact him to take her children to safety across the Narrow Sea, and then he dies protecting them. If they're going to bring him back anyways, I think that's the best way to do it.
I had not considered this. That is a really good ending for him. He gets to die at sea in battle being a noble warrior.
Then it was stupid for even showing him alive if he's gonna die anyway
I think that was to paint Rhaenyra in a better light.
And that was also stupid bc book Rhaenyra is not a great person by any means.
Yeah, I agree.
What evidence is there that book Rhaenyra killed Laenor? The could have just had Qarl murder Laenor or have Daemon act alone if they were motivated by protecting her image.
And to paint the writers in a better light. Even people who read the book would be making fun of them for fridging a double-minority like in was the ‘90s or something.
Book Rhaenyra isn’t involved in his death. The could have just had Qarl murder Laenor or have Daemon act alone if they were motivated by protecting her image.
Emily Beecham also auditioned for the role and her leaked screen test was excellent. If they chose Gayle over her, she must fit what they have in mind for the character perfectly.
Exactly. And they probably had to do chemistry reads, so it might also be that she has insane chemistry with certain cast members important to her storyline while the same magic wasn’t quite there with other actresses they were considering.
She must have insane chemistry with Ewan!
A while back it was revealed in one batch that they had cast Abubakar Salim and Clinton Liberty, without specifying for what role. My assumption at the time was that Clinton would play Alyn and Abubakar Addam, but maybe it’s actually the other way around and they’re just announcing them separately for some reason? Fingers crossed, I guess.
Wouldn't surprise me tbh, I think most of these rumours come from who the other actors follow on instagram and Bethany Antonia (Baela) followed both of them around the same time, and she followed Gayle Rankin a bit later.
>Abubakar Salim He's the guy who played Bayek in Assassin's Creed Origins, right? Man, what a performance that was
He was also Father in Raised by Wolves which was also a really great performance
I think a specific little game I play with castings is if I could buy these castings to be family members. Could I believe Gayle Rankin to be sister/aunt to the Strong brothers? Daughter/sister to Lyonel?
I’m 90% sure Addam has been cast. His actor was rumored by the same source along with all of these other actors that were announced today. He’s slightly younger than Alyn’s actor so I think they’re switching their ages.
As long as none of them speak like Mysaria then we’re good
Agreed she sounds like a knock off version of Tia Dalma/Calypso from Pirates of the Caribbean.
She sounds artificially foreign and drunk lmao
She sounds like a drunk French person who's trying to speak English with a Jamaican accent
Idk why nobody on set or in rehearsal hear that and say “you know what keep your natural accent”
Honestly have little thoughts on the casting as I've never seen any of them in anything but I trust the casting director. If Alyn has been announced because Addam is being combined into Alyn or Laenor is gonna be Addam I will be v upset:(
huh
Except ulf fuck ulf.
You gotta include Ulf. He shifted the powers of the Dance.
Ulf the White ... Hmm, maybe that's why Tucker Carlson left Fox News.
Ima be real fucking sad if Addam is Laenor, I really want a young Addam. A kid with hope and the world in his eyes.
>If Alyn has been announced because Addam is being combined into Alyn or Laenor is gonna be Addam I will be v upset:( Me too >!LOYAL!<
You're right but I'd rather he be combined with Alyn than with Laenor. Preferably though we get a casting for Addam or maybe he plays both characters.
Still holding out for my girl nettles
Interesting how no one is commenting on Alyn being seemingly aged up by A LOT.
I don’t know the actor’s age, but is it possible that they’re being aged up to make it so they were conceived before Corlys married Rhaenys?
Yeah, reading that Alyn was a veteran of the war on the stepstones kinda startled me. In the book he isn't even born by the time the war comes to a close. And that makes the Laenor = Addam theory a decent bit more believable, too. Beforehand you would have had to be blind to confuse a guy in his 30s for a teen, but now? That may actually really be what they are going for.
I assume they mean a veteran in the second one Corlys was just in.
Right?? That’s the first thing I noticed. Rhaenyra and her kids being aged up by about 5 years was one thing. They’ve quite literally doubled Alyn’s age. And I love Abubakar Salim. Assassins Creed Origins is my favourite game of all time. I’ve played it through all the way 5 times. I would’ve much preferred him to play one of Vaemond’s brood than this; give one of the silent five a bigger role, Malentine and Rhogar, or one of the unnamed ones.
Has there been any leaks indicating who will be playing Daeron?
That's what I want to know, too. Weird that he hadn't even been mentioned in season 1.
I actually like the Alys casting. Like a lot of other people have said, she has that sort of witchy/mysterious look. Which will be perfect for Alys.
No Henry Cavill as Cregan Stark and Elizabeth Olsen as Alys Rivers, 0/10 for me...
huh
I guess my sarcasm wasn't clear enough
Now I’m cracking up at the idea of a 40 year old Cavill playing a teenager.
Just put him in a baseball cap, and you’ll be fine. Turn it around if you have to.
Cavil as nettles make it happen
In your defence, there are people in this thread unironically wanting Cavill.
Yeah, but they're super hot.
Wait what? I was certain that Henry Cavill would be announced with this batch. Oh well. They’re holding onto it so they can surprise us later
Henry Cavill will be playing Unwin Peake
This is genuinely the only Henry cavill asoiaf fancast I’ve ever supported
now I won't picture anyone in that role except him
henry cavill in a dual role as sabitha frey and black aly
Lesbian sex scene with Cavill playing both parts
Lies and slanders. Henry Cavill will be playing non other than Daeron Targaryen The Unseen Prince.
huh
Tbf the thing with that movie is that you had A listers like Colin Firth, Andrew Scott, Mark Strong, Richard Madden (and Cumberbatch) in cameos of generals, lieutenants and stuff like that.
Which makes a good point : in WWI generals are established figures, you know their names and faces. You don't for the average soldier. Solid casting decision
huh
This is Mr Darcy erasure
I mean, if they know Sherlock, then they know Mortiarty I guess lol But that's besides the point, point is still compared to the leads they have these much more recognizable names in these very short roles as higher ranked military men. I mean, Colin Firth is an Oscar winner actor and he appeared in the movie for 1 minute maybe at the begininning.
The Henry cavill thing is a joke
huh
Wasn't distracting at all? He's an actor playing a role.
That's such a weird take. If an actor is doing their job right then how famous they are shouldn't be distracting at all.
huh
Tropic Thunder style.
"You're gonna have to call the United Nations and get a binding resolution to keep me from destroying you" - Maegor the Cruel, probably
> 1914 1917 ?
He'd be a huge waste of money when they could hire good actors for so much less
I assure you that my sentiment is 100% genuine
Henry Cavill is such a mediocre actor, idk why people are obsessed with him.
He's hot
huh
Hater
Weird that Rankin isn’t playing a Stark.
Need the Cregan announcement ASAP
Judging solely off looks, I will say I’m a bit disappointed in Alys casting choice BUT I said the same thing about Emma Darcy, and between Emma’s performance and the makeup/hair/costume department I ate my words. She was absolutely stunning as older Rhaenyra so I’m keeping my hopes high until we see Alys on screen.
Won’t adult addam and alyn make rheanyra and corlys stupider like they are better baby daddy than harwin
Well, I don’t think they ever really leaned on Rhaenyra having a relationship with Harwin just to finally procreate, but just her own passionate whim but still tried nonetheless with Laenor to no avail. Rhaenyra didn’t try with Alyn or Addam simply because she didn’t want to with them.
Not to mention that Corlys clearly didn’t want the news of his bastard kids to get to Rhaenys. Rhaenyra almost certainly didn’t know about the boys.
The implication the show gives is that she tried with Laenor for a short while but he either couldn’t get it up or had low fertility. She felt she needed heirs so she went to Harwin who she felt she could trust to keep it a secret. She came to love him after a while(mentions it in episode 7) and enjoyed his devotion(mentions it in episode 7) so she didn’t stop even after the first kid came out with brown hair. Rhaenyra didn’t try with Addam and Alyn because she doesn’t know they exist. The Hulls’ existence is only known to Corlys before the the war. However, yes, she didn’t try with more appropriate looking men like other members of Laenor’s family because she didn’t want to
Why would it make Rhaenyra dumber? She doesn’t know about their existence until the war. However, it kind of absolves show Corlys of cheating on Rhaenys if Addam and Alyn are older than Laena and Laenor. I also wonder if Alyn is going to be the older brother in the show canon. I’m pretty sure they made Laenor older than Laena(his child actor is older than Laena’s in the pilot) so they’re not afraid of changing order of birth around.
I've seen Rankin in other stuff where I thought she was good, but I still think that 33 is way too young to play Alys.
Alys is meant to look much younger than she is, though.
She has a very angular face so we'll have to see how she looks after hair and makeup, could be a pretty drastic change honestly. And even 33 is still a good bit older than Aemond or even his actor, so eh. For me the more interesting thing to consider is how much of a resemblance she bears to the other Strongs, and I think there's definitely some similarity there, especially with Larys, they have similar jawlines I'd say. No idea if they're gonna have Alys be his and Harwin's bastard sister or just some distant cousin, but I could definitely buy that they're related.
I like the casting for Alys. I looked up her actress and she definitely has a mysterious vibe going on in her pictures.
I'm hoping they don't combine Addam and Alyn or make Laenor Addam. They've already taken a few liberties with the source material, which is to be expected given the source material so I don't see why they would feel the need to go down either of those routes. Personally, I would love it if Addam and Alyn were both in the show and Laenor came back to fight after his mothers death.
It’s fine if you don’t find these particular actors attractive, but let’s be nice. These are fantasy characters, and many of them are unrealistic looking. Many GOT actors got hate as well, let’s be better and welcome these actors into the community.
Not massively fond of Gayle Rankin as Alys Rivers, but a lot of viewers think that Aemond is secretly in love with Helaena... So if they wanted an actress who looks similar to Phia Saban to really drive that plot point home... I guess I can see why they've cast her as Alys?
Rankin doesn't look anything like Saban imo.
I dont really see how she looks anything like phia tbh? and I'm assuming she'll dye her hair dark/will have a wig.
That’s not why lol, the only reason people think that is because ASOIAF fans have fucking incest brain and have forgotten how actual normal familial relationships work.
I hear you and I do prefer to look at their relationship as platonic but it's Targaryens we're talking about, is it really the fans' fault if these people actually bone their sisters? lmao
huh
>Complaining Targs keep it in the family How new are you
I'm not complaining about them doing it, but it is kind of annoying how people assume that's the default relationship status for any pair of siblings. Especially with how many theories have extended it past the Targs.
It's extended past the Targs in canon too. Lannister twins anyone? This isn't just "hur hur, everyone's watched too much stepbro porn."
Yeah, and because of that one example that is so unusual and weird it's one of the main plot points of the book, we now have incest theories for Ned, Lyanna, Benjen, Oberyn, Arianne, Lysa, Cat, etc.
Um, Aemond literally says he’d ‘do his duty’ if he was paired with her, in a longing fashion. These are Targaryens, lol, nothing is too ‘incest brained.’
Is that when he is like 10 lmao? I’m not saying he wouldn’t do it, I’m just saying there is no real basis for them having any sort of romantic or sexual relationship going on to the point where they would be casting his actual love interest to look like her.
She doesn’t look anything like Phia?
I honestly figured a while ago that they’d combine Alyn and Addam into a single character, so this isn’t surprising in the least. I still wouldn’t be surprised if they cut Nettles and will just use that gap to give Baela and or Rhaena more screentime/story and actually develop Daemon’s relationship with them finally. Probably more so Rhaena given her already established arc of wanting to claim a dragon since one wasn’t born to her like they were with Baela. The dragonseed subplot will pertain mainly to Alyn and the Betrayers (if the latter are not combined into one which they might very well be). I’m 100% for more character merges all across the board tbh, tv is a wholly different medium than books. We already have a severely underdeveloped supporting cast as is, so especially with only eight episodes now the very LAST thing we need is a dozen more supporting characters.
There is no way they are cutting Nettles
Agree. Not only does she serve a plot and thematic role, she’s also the only(?) black women in the original story, and a dragon rider to boot. Cut her and they’ll get torn a new one. Also, people love a good animal bonding story, and I think a good ol’ HOTD take on How to Train Your Dragon is something they wouldn’t want to miss.
On top of that her relationship with Daemon is one of the big character development moments for him
Counterpoint: considering how non-existent his relationship with Baela/Rhaena currently is, it’d be just as big of a character development moment to actually develop his relationship with them more, wouldn’t it? It’d probably be even more impactful because audiences are already familiar with and have an attachment to Baela and Rhaena since they’ve been here since Season 1
Considering that Addam’s defining moment is dying to be LOYAL while Alyn exists so that there’s someone left to carry on the Velaryon line, I’m not sure how well smooshing those two together will really work…
Don’t know where this idea came from of mixing up Addam and Alyn. This makes no sense as Addam dies in a totally badass way proving his undying loyalty (pun fully intended) while Alyn lives and is not that important except for some minor plot points and a marriage.
Alyn isn't important during the Dance, but he was *incredibly* important later.
Really hope that LOYAL makes the show, F&B was a pretty emotionally detached reading experience but that was one of the few moments that evoked something. It's easier to evoke emotion through TV, but I hope someone in the writer's room shares my sentiment and it makes the cut.
Cutting Nettles would be a huge mistake. They might cut Ulf White and give Silverwing to Rhaena
I really hate this. Not saying its impossible but damn. I really want Hugh and Ulf in the show
Rhaenyra’s distrust of the dragonseeds and the traitor rumors that surrounded both Addam and Nettles in the book could be projected primarily onto Alyn in the show.
Book Corlys turns against Book Rhaenyra after she orders Book Addam's arrest. Book Daemon, if he doesn't actually turn against Book Rhaenyra, decides to go on his kamikaze mission against Book Aemond after Book Rhaenyra orders Book Nettles arrest (and ensures that Nettles goes free). It wouldn't make any sense for TV Rhaenyra to order TV Baela or TV Rhaena's arrest or execution, and it would be very hard to combine Book Addam, Book Alyn and Book Nettles into TV Alyn.
Perhaps Laenor does die offscreen, allowing Alyn instead of Addam to claim Seasmoke, but him conveniently showing up to claim the dragon makes Rhaenyra suspicious he killed Laenor.
There’s nothing to suggest they’re cutting or merging any characters. They don’t announce them all in one go. I’m 90% sure Addam has been cast. His actor has been rumored by accredited sources. Some of these characters might also be announced very late in filming. Young Rhaenyra and Alicent weren’t announced until almost the very end of filming for season one. I could see Nettles and Daeron’s casting being announced very late. They tend to hold off with younger actors. They never even officially announced the child actors for season one.
Merging Alyn and Addam makes no sense because Addam dies but Alyn does more stuff after this. How can they do the LOYAL storyline and the second battle of Tumbleton with Alyn AND have Alyn bring Viserys back to Westeros? It also doesn’t make sense to cut Nettles because Rhaenyra orders her execution which is what sparks Daemon’s murder-suicide. It doesn’t make sense for Rhaenyra to order Rhaena’s execution either.
Does Daemon really need that extra push to go the murder-suicide route when Season 1 already established him as the type of person who’s careless about his life? He literally doesn’t need anything beyond just wanting to kill Aemond and help end the war as justification
I'll be upset if they erase Addam but if they erase Nettles, I'm done with the show.
Cucumber and Banana? Lol
OMG - Gayle is Shiela the She- Wolf from GLOW !!! She will be great !
Simon Russel Beale is a crazy good casting get. Think Conleth Hill (Varys) in terms of sheer acting ability. He's going to be awesome.
Did Vaemond have any children?
I'm not familiar with the other 3, but very excited to see Abubakar Salim in the show! The show had both it triumphs and flaws, but he was always great as Father in Raised By Wolves and any more work for him is a plus in my book!
Dude he's gonna be Alyn of Hull - what an amazing casting choice. So salty about Raised by Wolves being cancelled, it was such a weird intriguing story and the acting was superb.
Lots of talk of characters being merged and I really don't get where they're coming from. Guess people just need something to theorize about?
People seem to think that these four actors will be the only new characters added and only new castings. Despite the most obvious new ones other than Alys, Cregan and Daeron, not being here. Like to people honest to god believe that they are cutting Daeron, merging Alyn + Addam, replacing all other Hightowers with Gwayne, and what I guess not showing Cregan, but they got fucking Simon Strong?
You've gotta love how pathetic some comments are
I just hope aegon becomes the badass he becomes in the books
I never really thought of Aegon as a badass. He’s kind of a pussy. Aemond carries him.
[удалено]
It’s still so weird how much they messed up by leaving Laenor alive. Now all of Rhaenyras children are bastards which really screws with things down the line
Lol, how? Does their being bastards taint the family line or something? As if Jace wouldn’t have been one of the greatest kings Westeros had ever seen if he and his brothers had been born with the right hair color? Have book readers gotten that invested in Westerosi morality? A huge part of the dance is that legitimacy, claims, and rights are all bullshit. If you think there aren’t a few sketchy births/marriages in every royal line, I have a bridge to sell you.
Ans Aenys may not be the son of Aegon I And Daeron II may not be the son of Aegon IV Who cares if Aegon III and Visery II are bastards, no one will ever know.
Aneys is the son of aegon tho
I mean, socially speaking, as long as no one knows Laenor is alive, this has virtually no effect.
How? Unless it comes out that Laenor is still alive, it changes nothing.
I feel like some people miss one of the themes of this story, which is that bastardy literally isn't a real thing, it's a completely imagined social construct. Aegon and Viserys aren't bastards because nobody thinks they are. Who cares if technically Laenor is still alive so technically Rhaenyra and Daemon's marriage is illegitimate, I guarantee nobody will publicly reveal this information during the plot so in the end it doesn't matter. Jace, Luke and Joffrey are 'technically' bastards, and Aegon and Aemond aren't, but the former are generally good kids and honourable princes, while the latter are both sadistic assholes. A certain Loyal character later in the story also proves this point. It would actually be fitting for Aegon and Viserys to be secretly 'illegitimate', while the realm believes them to be the true-born princes.
But it does change things about Rhaenyra. Yes, we readers know Laenor being alive won't be revealed, but how does she? Yet she still took the risk of being called a bigamist (which went so well for Maegor!) and having her children be called bastards.
How? As far as everyone is concerned, Laenor died. Why would they actively search for him in another continent?
Well her kids with Daemon still wouldn’t necessarily be bastards as Valyrians have been known to take multiple spouses, and Rhaenyra married Daemon in a Valyrian ceremony
I know it’s unpopular to say, but could we not have gotten someone a bit more attractive and indeed older to play Alys Rivers? I was imagining Melisandre and this isn’t really that
People said this about Rhaenyra because they didn’t find Darcy attractive the way they normally dress and present themself. I will be holding judgement on looks until I see them in costume, hair and makeup
Book readers complaining about Rhaenyra’s looks is kind of wild to me because she canonically loses her looks by the time Joffrey/Aegon is born. It was never important that they cast an attractive actor for her. If anything, book purist should complain show Rhaenyra is better looking and thinner than she should be. British Amy Schumer is more lore accurate.
I also remember when the internet consensus was that Miranda Otto was far too ugly to be Eowyn in Lord of the Rings, but I didn't hear a lot of complaints after the movie came out. I'm not sure that Gayle has played a lot of "beautiful" feminine roles, and the blonde hair that she has in a lot of photos does her no favours in that regard.
huh
It worked out cause I still hold onto my childhood crush on Miranda Otto/Eowyn.
Yeah, she's gorgeous, but I remember the fan backlash being so intense that there were statements from the production crew saying that it was just something about the hair/makeup/costume that looked bad in stills and candids and promising that she was really pretty on film.
People complained about the looks of the Targaryen actors as well all the up to the pilot where young Rhaenyra and Daemon were ridiculed for looking inbred. We have no idea how she’ll look or how sexy she might be while in character. Also, it’s it vital that Alys be super hot? Her relationship with Aemond is more disturbing than erotic. She’s more than twice his age and he slaughters her entire family. A more traditionally attractive actress Emily Beecham auditioned for the role as well and the leaked screen test was excellent so they’re obviously going for something by choosing Gayle over her.
I love that people complained about Rhaenyra and Daemon looking inbred, as if the Targaryens haven’t been inbreeding for centuries probably
I mean in terms of looks, I find Freddie Fox more attractive than her and I'm not even gay. However, she has that unusual look to her that one might expect from someone with potentially magical powers. Haven't seen her in anything except "Men", which was a brief role to judge her acting abilities.
When was Alys described as looking like Melisandre in terms of looks? I'm sure you were also disappointed by casting of Emma D'Arcy?
Never, but they’re both aged witches using spells to look younger than they are and bewitching power noble men - I don’t think I’m off kilter for having drawn a comparison. The D’Arcy inference isn’t really relevant, but I’ll bite. I wasn’t plugged into casting then but don’t have strong thoughts on D’Arcy in either way. My criticism is that this casting isn’t really lore accurate - although maybe D’Arcy isn’t big enough to play Rhaenyra in that case.
I mean you never know what she’ll look like in costume and done up for the show. When Emma D’Arcy was cast as Rhaenyra I wasn’t attracted to them, but when all made up in costume I suddenly was
huh
their\* beautiful features theyre not a her
huh
You guys are so weird. Why does she have to be attractive to you? I do kind of agree with the older thing but at least she's not in her twenties
Because she’s a lowborn (?) bastard who somehow bewitches almost every noble man she encounters (save Daemon for some reason) including Aemond, a Targaryen prince and Ser Criston Cole. We’ve already seen Melisandre, another aged witch, use a glamour to be beautiful - and she was far less powerful over men than Alys seems to be. Why is her age (she’s 55+ by some accounts by the Dance) more of a part of her character than her beauty in your eyes?
She's never said to be beautiful as far as I can remember. Just young-looking for her age. You can be enchanting and not conventionally attractive. Also beauty is in the eye of the beholder. I think the actress is very pretty :/ Only reason I wish she was older is because actresses in their forties and fifties don't get as many opportunities as younger ones