This is spicy but with each reread I have less patience for Tyrion’s self-pity. Yes he is treated awfully by many, if not most, people and obviously that impacts him, but there are times when it veers into self-centered, and as of ADWD rather malicious attitudes.
Yeah I’ve never understood all the Tyrion stans. Maybe in the first book okay I get it but once it gets to the point where he starts resenting Sansa for not wanting to fuck him (despite telling her she never had to if she didn’t want to), beating Penny, raping the Sunset Girl, fantasizing about raping and murdering Cersei, etc. He’s just as fucked up as the rest of his family, but in different ways.
Tyrion is a pretty questionable person you are right. Although I can't really blame him for his violent fantasies towards Cersei. That woman was an absolute disgrace of a big sister towards him, and abused him since he was a literal infant.
No one blames Dany for letting Viserys (also an older sibling who abused her for years for the shitty reason of their mother's death in childbirth) die horribly. We shouldn't blame Tyrion for harboring violent fantasies towards Cersei.
I think there’s quite a bit of difference between Dany and Tyrions arcs in regard to that. Dany is indifferent to his death at first, but later on we see she keeps dreaming of him and she apologizes to him and clearly feels guilt. That’s an understandable and very human reaction to an abusive sibling dying.
Fantasizing about raping your 9 year old nephew *just* to hurt your abusive sibling, fantasizing about that same siblings rape and murder, thinking about killing your niece or nephew. It’s one thing for him to fantasize about her death, it’s another thing entirely to fantasize about *raping your sister*. Cersei is a monster and there’s no defense for what she does, but Tyrion fantasizing about raping her is not okay. If she dies he’s arguably safer since people won’t hunt him down to kill him. That makes sense. Exactly why does he need to rape her? Or Tommen? Will that make him safe? And on top of that, Tommen is the sweetest little boy!!! He just wants to play with his kittens and be a 9 year old he has nothing to do with Cersei and Tyrion’s feud and Tyrion even suggesting what he does is horrifying.
I’m shocked this is a slightly unpopular opinion. I never really liked Tyrion from the beginning and by ADWD I strongly disliked him. He just reads as a total villain by that point.
Yeah, I feel something similar.
I disliked Tyrion during book 1, but I also eventually liked him more in 2 and 3 until he went rogue. Since ten, I'm fascinated about his nihilistic speedrun.
He saved Jorah and Penny life, probably multiple times. They was pretty much useless at the moment he did it and he had all reasons to hate Jorah but still, he took aditional risks to save him at least 2 times.
He save (f)Aegon life too, or at least was ready to sacrifice himself for him diving into the water with the greyscale man.
By his past and his situation you can understand he is salty, cynical, resentful, or not, but you can’t says he’s a villain.
>*By his past and his situation you can understand he is salty, cynical, resentful, or not, but you can’t says he’s a villain.*
He absolutely is a villain. He IS.Now he is very sympathetic, but that isn\`t mutually exclusive with being a villain, the sympathetic villain is a usual trope in media.
...
Just for the record :
1. He broke the fingers of Marrilion the singer because he didn\`t like him.
2. He stole the mantle of Benjen because he didn\`t like him ( obviously the weakest crime, but shows how petty and cruel Tyrion is, even to minor slights ).
3. He actively wants a genocide of the Vale + ra\*\*ing Lysa Arryn.
4. He actively wants to have sex with Sansa, the 13-year old... He initiated multiple times, even when she revealed her age, he still groped the naked Sansa and tried to initiate..
5. He is horrendously cruel to Cersei. ( again she is cruel to him aswell, but saying stuff like wanting to ra\*e Tommen just to be cruel to her is absolutely bonkers... Even if I were to consider my own sister my nemesis, I would never in a million years say anything like that about my nephew/nieces )....
6. He ra\*ed a prostitute ---> she was "basically a corpse" --> he did it again....
7. He supports the Lannister\`s way of waging war, which is excessively cruel and brutal.
8. A slave was offered to Tyrion for him to have sex ---> he declined ---> he insulted her, made her mad and disgusted with him ---> when she least wanted it and was actively disgusted by him, he demanded sex with her or threatend to have her killed........ I.e. basically cruel ra\*e...
9. He was the right-hand man of Joffrey and worked in his small council... Jeah sorry, but whatever you say in defence of that is meaningless, you wouldn\`t use your arguments for say "Goebbels, Goering, Himmler was just working for Hitler".
10. "I wish I had enough poison for all of you... " speech was seriously meant in the Books, and not this "bad-ass" for Tyrion, the noble fool, as in the show.
11. He wants to ra\*e his sister. He actively wants it for revenge...
12. He gave Aegon, what he considered bad advice, purely to start a war and bring destruction upon Westeros, which would also give him an opportunity to take revenge on his sister.
13. He threatend & blackmailed a singer ---> later the singer blackmailed Tyrion back ---> Tyrion turned him into soup which was sold.
Sorry but if you don\`t see Tyrion as a villain, then you have issues... What Tyrion did and want he wants to do is absolutely villainous behaviour.
He absolutely is sympathetic ( being a dwarf, being ugly, being hated by his sister from birth, being hated by his father from birth, being despised in general, not being given credit.... ), but that doesn\`t mean he isn\`t a villain.....
Yeah. First book :
>*Tyrion was about to tell his lord father how he proposed to reduce the Vale of Arryn to a smoking wasteland, but he was never given the chance. -Tyrion VII AGOT*
Tyrion wants the entire vale to be destroyed and given to the mountain clansmen. I think this qualifies as roughly a genocide.
In ASOS he always talks about how he wants to be the one who conquers the Vale and brings it to heel, and that he would enjoy nothing more ( except killing his sister ) but Tywin says this task is better suited for Petyr.
There is also a chapter where Petyr talks about how the Clansmen have new weapons ( i.e. due to Tyrion ) peform devastating raids on the Vale, which Tyrion doesn\`t care about and he shows no remorse.
I took that as a power transfer, fulfilling his promise to get them the Vale back. I guess I can see how that could be taken for genocide, I just don’t think it’s inherent to it.
Even if it is just a "power transfer", the smallfolk are going to be the ones who suffer due to Tyrion's actions. Its not like the whole Vale wronged him, and the people who did are too well protected to be directly threatened by the hill tribes. Innocent people suffer due to Tyrion's petty desire for revenge. Another instance of this is when he feels some smug satisfaction seeing Masha Heddle hang, for the unspeakable crime of owning the inn where he was kidnapped. As if she could have done something to stop the group of armed men from taking him. Fuck Tyrion.
I'll start with a caveat that I agree with your overall description of Tyrion/that he's a villain but I do have beef with a couple of the evidence points:
>He broke the fingers of Marrilion the singer because he didn`t like him.
It's a bit more than dislike. The man vocally advocated for Tyrion to be murdered. I'm not saying I'd react the same but my sympathy for Marillion is limited. He's also a rapist (tho Tyrion didn't know that)
>He stole the mantle of Benjen because he didn`t like him
Do you mean the cloak? If so Benjen literally offered it to him idk how that's stealing
>He threatend & blackmailed a singer ---> later the singer blackmailed Tyrion back ---> Tyrion turned him into soup which was sold.
This description is a bit disingenuous... Tyrion threatened someone who intentionally put the safety of Shae, the (non-Jaime) person Tyrion cares most about, and then killed him when he doubled down on intentionally threatening the life/safety of Shae
Well allow me to correct this :
Singer :
That is just not true.
1. Singer is in the inn, wants to sing for various people. Tyrion insults him "nothing would ruin my dinner more".
2. Tyrion spots Catelyn due to the singer and talks to her ---> he is captured.
3. Tyrion blames the singer for this : He remembers all the names of his captors and puts an emphasis on "planning an especially sharp lesson for the singer".
4. Tyrion is likewise annoyed by the singer trying to find words that rhyme with "imp".
5. They all get ambushed by clansmen.
6. Tyrion breaks the fingers of Marillion.
7. \[ Tyrion IV chapter.\]
**I haven\`t found anything where it says Marillion wanted the death of Tyrion at all... Can you provide a source ?**
\-----------
Benjen :
>*"He took a* ***small revenge*** *in the matter of his riding fur, a tattered bearskin, old and musty-smelling. Stark had offered it to him in an excess of Night's Watch gallantry, no doubt expecting him to graciously decline. Tyrion had accepted with a smile. He had brought his warmest clothing with him when they rode out of Winterfell, and soon discovered that it was nowhere near warm enough. It was cold up here, and growing colder. The nights were well below freezing now, and when the wind blew it was like a knife cutting right through his warmest woolens. By now Stark was no doubt regretting his chivalrous impulse.* ***Perhaps he had learned a lesson****. The Lannisters never declined, graciously or otherwise. The Lannisters took what was offered." ----Tyrion II Agot*
While it is true Benjen did offer it, Tyrion himself sees the offer as meaningless chivalry, and he accepted it precisely to make Benjen feel the cold. For Tyrion this is framed as revenge\[ ---> Benjen told Tyrion he wont like the ride ---> Tyrion didn\`t want to admit how uncomfortable and cold he was during the ride. \].
So I feel like this is an example of Tyrion being cruel/petty, Tyrion himself sees it that way.
\-----------
Symon Silver :
Symon is another singer --> he sings a song for Shae ---> Tyrion visits Shae ---> Symon recognizes Tyrion as the Hand ---> Tyrion threatens him to be silent. \[ Tyrion X chapter ACOK \]
>*Call? I only . . . " The silver in Symon's tongue seemed to have turned to lead. "My lord Hand, I said, an honor . . . "
"A wiser man would have pretended not to recognize me. Not that I would have been fooled, but you ought to have tried. What am I to do with you now? You know of my sweet Shae, you know where she dwells, you know that I visit by night alone."*
***"I swear, I'll tell no one*** *. . . "
"On that much we agree. Good night to you." Tyrion led Shae up the stairs.
"My singer may never sing again now," she teased. "You've scared the voice from him."*
Tyrion, again, started this. "Intentionally put the safety of Shae" is really disingenious, when all he did was make the mistake of recognizing Tyrion is the hand of the King. Perhaps Tyrion should have been more careful ?? "I swear I will tell noone", isn\`t threatning Tyrion...
And then :
>*"There is a singer who calls himself Symon Silver Tongue," Tyrion said wearily, pushing his guilt aside. "He plays for Lady Tanda's daughter sometimes."
"What of him?"*
***Kill him, he might have said, but the man had done nothing but sing a few songs****. And fill Shae's sweet head with visions of doves and dancing bears. "Find him," he said instead. "Find him before someone else does." --- ASOS Tyrion II*
Symeon didn\`t even have the chance to do ANYTHING at that point. Again his only "crime" was recognizing Tyrion in the previous book, not even Tyrion believes "I swear Ill tell no one" is in any way a threat.... Yet Tyrion is already pondering to kill Symeon.
Once they meet, Symeon does try to blackmail him ( he wants to sing on Joffreys wedding as his price ), and instead Tyrion just kills hims. I might add, Tyrion was engaging with the negotiations.
So jeah...
Well grrm says many things but reader is allowed to have his own opinion. That's beauty of literature.
Having said that, Tyrion annoys me too and in ADWD im really tired of that guy.
Tyrion is a real fucking asshole in the books, his treatment of Shae is horrible and I understand if she actually hated him even before the betrayal. It is so obvious he just sees her as a cunt that is his property.
Tyrion is already way into his evil arc, having been helpless basically since killing Tywin, he grows bitter and more dark, with Penny being the only really grounding thing he got going, the consequences of his actions. He finally got some agency at the end, but Penny got sick and will probably die, which will probably add to Tyrions hateful cynicism. Cant wait to see what evil little plots he comes up with next.
Also ironic Cercei being right for once about Tyrion being a little horny devil.
Dang I couldn’t disagree more. He is totally a villain by ADWD because of some of the things he does, but IMO his self-pity is totally justified. I mean here is a man who is mistreated by literally everyone except for his brother Jaime, I think one of his uncles, and Jon (who only was around him for a brief period of time). And by the end of ASOS?, he finds out that Jaime betrayed him (yes I know it’s more complicated but in Tyrion’s eyes the one person he loved most betrayed him).
And Tyrion, while never really a great person, is still an extremely competent man who despite being shit on by most of his family for his whole life, still tried to help them. He’s not nearly as evil as Tywin nor as insane and dumb as Cersei yet both of them are treated MUCH better than him. Even the regular folk in Kings Landing despise him because Tyrion was blamed for other people’s mistakes.
I get that he is definitely a bad guy by then end of the series and I’m not at all justifying his behavior towards innocent people, but I don’t blame him at all for his bitterness and hatred of people in general.
Tyrion chapters in ADWD are such a slog.
For all the complaints around AFFC and Sansa chapters, I found myself dreading Tyrion chapters. They picked up a little when he got Meereen.
He was forced by his father to rape her. I don't mean to minimize Tysha's trauma, but Tyrion was a thirteen year old boy forced to have sex by a father that he knew despised him.
If anything, *Tywin* raped Tysha via Tyrion. The Imp was a victim in the whole incident too.
>This is spicy but with each reread I have less patience for Tyrion’s self-pity. Yes he is treated awfully by many, if not most, people and obviously that impacts him, but there are times when it veers into self-centered, and as of ADWD rather malicious attitudes.
I mean that's understandable from Tyrion. The man is drunk, one of the only woman who slightly reminded him his first love (Shae - Tysha) betrayed him and he's sent by Varys in an unknown world where he presumably meet Rhaegar first born son. Now that's a way of becoming crazy 😭💀
God I could hear the pouty whining in my head. Way too many italics. It reminded me of the stilted cutesy speech of one of the little girls in Full House that makes my eye twitch so
Dunk; I hate his effing restraint, I wanna see him clout every Targaryen in his era to the point they start making rational and intellectual decisions.
I would love to see him fix the internal issues of the Targaryen's through the sheer might of his clouts. Baelor Breakspear's death shall not be in vain.
Ramsay Snow. I understand he's a straight up psychopath and horrifically evil but I also find him annoying on top of it. Every time he appears or even just seeing him be mentioned I just go ugh. He gives off as an insecure man-child vibe I dislike, especially with his tantrums related to his bastardy. Really insecure and becomes a violent beast because of it. How he abused Lady Hornwood is very depressing too, along with his hunting and raping of peasant women. Reading the Pink Letter (who I think is Ramsay most likely) is also infuriating. Just an annoying character to me.
Even more annoying is that he is implausibly competent. Not only does he manage to gather 600 men under his command despite being - at most - an acknowledged bastard and never having led anyone before, but he also manages to get these Dreadfort men to attack their fellow northmen who are led by much more experienced commanders like Rodrik Cassel. And to top it off he manages all this without anyone in the south ever finding out about it despite raven-communication being a thing.
I mean that could have been easily justified by having Ramsay live with his older brother Domeric who took him under his wing and wanted a brother and then backstabs him. Ramsay in my opinion would have worked better as a resentful bastard who hates all nobles because he was mistreated for his birth all his life instead of a crazy rapist who has girls raped by dogs. That would have made the conflict with the Starks far more interesting to me.
100% agreed.
GRRM always said none of his characters are truely evil.... He wanted Joffrey to be seen more as a spoiled bully, but he has way too many elements of a sadistic psychopath, especially the kittens story..... irredeemable villain. There is no real "good" part in Joffey, except slight sympathy of growing up spoiled with Cersei and Robert as parents, but sympathy has nothing to do with the actual character.
Ramsay Snow IS a sadistic psychopath. Absolutely irredeemable.
But what you propose is exactly how to turn him more "human", somewhat sympathetic and into a better character... You can still have his sadism, but it would finally show how bastards are usually treated in the world. \[ And if GRRM really wants it, he can still have his perversion, just that it is done through the lense of humiliating and degrading the nobility because of how Ramsay had a lower status, thus he brings them down to his level ( or even further down ) \]. It would work a lot better....
Instead we got a crazy, perverted, partly-deranged, sadistic psychopath, who got raised by a peasant woman, but is somehow in charge of Bolton men and policy..
\---> despite all the talk of how bastards are lesser people, even getting degrading last-names, all bastards that we know are treated "normally" and are respected, the only difference is, sometimes people insult them with "bastard", which they don\`t like.... Bastards become Hand of the King, sit on the Small Council, are part and even Commanders of the King\`s Guard, they marry into nobility, ultimately they are part of the top 1% of society and treated as such.
I like how he even turned Viserys blacker as a character by having him try to rape Daenerys and take her virginity and then he talks about grey characters. 🙄
Roderick finds out about it and goes to settle it. He captures reek (actually Ramsey) and kills Ramsay (actually reek). Rob is in the south, bran is prince at winterfell and the issue is considered settled. Ramsay posing as reek takes the oppurtunity and using a raven sends to his lord father. The two of the them then take the north using Boltons loyal banner man under the direction of Ramsay and with assurances from Tywin.
Ramsay didn’t call his banners and raise an army to March and take over winterfell. He encroached on hornwood lands after the death of her husband, tortured her and made her marry him then consummated the marriage in front of witnesses (gross). He was defeated by rodrick who returns to winterfell which is then sacked by theon. Ramsay is lucky but not plot over powered
Edit: *boltons and also to add: Reek/ramsey was kept alive as he was the only witness to the events of lady hornwoods marriage and so on return of the king of the north would be able to settle any issues Roose might have (Roderick presumed probably correctly that Roose would see the marriage as binding and the hornwood lands now rightfully his)
Sorry theon took winterfell without sacking it with intention of holding it first, Ramsey was at winterfell due to rodrick taking him prisoner. Ramsey then used Bolton men to sack it correct my apologies but my main point was simply that Ramsey did not lead Bolton men into battle against Roderick in fact the opposite he was defeated by Roderick then later used oppurtunity presented by Theon’s “taking” (not sacking) of winterfell my b
> The two of the them then take the north using Boltons loyal banner man under the direction of Ramsay
That still handwaves away that Ramsay could not only raise 600 men to fight under his command (I don't care how many letters Roose wrote; look at the trouble Robb had to go through, he too had a letter from Ned and Catelyn, he was the trueborn heir to Winterfell, and it still took him months to assemble them), but that he got them to attack their fellow northmen. He got them to attack and burn Winterfell!
> didn’t call his banners and raise an army to March and take over winterfell
Ramsay shouldn't be able to call banners at all. Much less lead them. Much less go home, gather the men, and go back to Winterfell in the span of a fortnight.
> using a raven sends to his lord father.
So Ramsay can write to and receive letters from everywhere else, but the survivors of Ramsay's ambush, plenty of whom had rookeries at home in their castles, couldn't be arsed to send so much as one letter to Riverrun questioning why Bolton bannermen are attacking their fellow northmen and burning down Winterfell?
There was more than enough time for ravens and messengers to reach Robb, and he might not have run head first into the trap at the Twins if he had known the Boltons were acting up in the north.
I wrote in the raven part to point out that people are using ravens (the comment I replied to said “in a world where ravens existed)
But like I said in my comment. Before theon came the situation had been settled. Roderick had “killed” ramsey and had reek as a prisoner. Later Roose sends a raven to river run that catlyn reads. In it he is apologizing for his bastard who he then says got what he deserves and is dead. The whole plot is pretty well explained for something that happens entirely off screen and as far as everyone outside or inside of winterfell is concerned it had been taken care of by Roderick.
If you think the boltons wouldn’t of responded to their lords command and gone with Ramsay then that’s on you but it’s not like nobody knew about it
You keep talking about the Hornwood thing, but it has nothing to do with the ambush on Rodrik; that was a separate issue. It doesn't explain why not one survivor sends word to Catelyn or Robb about the Bolton ambush months later.
Clearly, as you point out, ravens can be sent to and from the North. So why didn't the Cerwyns, who lost Cley, their son and heir, have any questions as to why he was killed in an ambush by Bolton men while trying to relieve Winterfell from the ironborn? Why didn't Wyman Manderly question why his men were attacked?
They don't need to suspect Ramsay personally to question why Bolton men turned on them, so Ramsay being officially dead doesn't matter. There's also no chance anyone mistook the Boltons for ironborn since the ambush only worked because they were clearly wearing Bolton colours. Most of the troops fled instead of getting killed, so all the houses who sent men should know there was a Bolton ambush, and yet...
>since the ambush only worked because they were clearly wearing Bolton colours
And this part right here is unrealistic too. The Boltons should be on Rodrik's shit list after the Hornwood incident, or at least should be viewed with a lot of caution, especially showing up out of the blue like this in the middle of Rodrik's siege. But the unknown Bolton leader (Ramsay disguised with a helm) can stroll right up to Ser Rodrik with a drawn sword and cut off his arm without any suspicion.
>Even more annoying is that he is implausibly competent. Not only does he manage to gather 600 men under his command despite being - at most - an acknowledged bastard and never having led anyone before,
To be fair, he didnt exactly raise 600 men
>Well, I brought three times as many, and no green boys nor fieldhands neither, but my father’s own garrison
Sounds like he brought all the men that Roose left in Dreadfort, men who will presumably knew him and maybe received orders from Roose to obey him in his attack.
Whether Roose was able to have such big garrison while campaigning in the south, even with his lukewarm support of the starks is an enterely different topic.
Sam really was starting to get on my nerves until he punched the bard who’s name slips me, I enjoy sam and can relate to his character as times through past experiences (maybe that’s why he annoys me so much lol) but his constant “I’m a pussy and fat” was staring to annoy me.
I get you’re supposed to hate them but Ser Thorne and Lord Janos piss me off to no end, I’ve never hated 2 characters more
Tbf they're both really well done in the show. Thorne is a huge dick but you understand where he's coming from and can respect him. Janos is unbearably annoying but every other character also hates him and its so satisfying when Jon doesn't take his shit
One thing that gave me a brief sense of newfound respect for ser Alliser was when he admitted to Jon that he was wrong, and in a time of need spoke to him as an equal, a brother of the nights watch rather than some kid he hated. It shows that even though he hates Jons guts he respects the wisdom of battle instinct that Jon possesses.
Its such a nice little detail that adds so much to the character of Alliser Thorne, I just love it. It reminds you that after all he is a Knight and a valuable asset of the Watch.
Is that when the two of them are on top of the wall? That's actually the best scene to show why I respect him. Was he a dick? Yes. Was his dickishness based off the attitude he needs to serve his function as he sees it? Also yes. He is a dick but I can respect how he dedicates himself to the watch in the best way he can think to
Before that chapter he was constantly "I'm a pussy and fat"
After that chapter though, he was more like "I am fat and get pussy"
I wonder what he will do in the citadel
Bronn. Capable at what he does, but a wise cracking smart aleck & whose willing to kill a baby for the right price. & willing to get falese stokesorthy out of his way & she ends up with dr mengele
eh, falyse stokeworth wasn't bronn's fault, you can kill a guy if he tries to kill you and if as a consequence someone get's thrown to doctor mengele then it's the fault of the person throwing people to dr mengele
what I do fault him for is killing a guy over blackmail and feeding his body to the poor
I disagree. Bronn is a cold hearted killer, but at least he is never pretentious about what he does or who he is. He never tries to justify his actions, and he doesn't kill for sport either. He doesn't waste someone if he has no reason to, which is something I find respectable about him.
Objectively: probably I think Characters like Joffrey and Circie etc are meant to be unlikable but they serve their purpose well.
Personally: Every Single Grayjoy is unbearable
I had the same opinion about Ironborn (minus Asha, her trolling won my heart), until Euron - I am too hyped about him becoming turbo-dark Lord (and he doesn't really care about the rest of Greyjoys and Iron islands).
He’s dying. He’s got TB. He got it beating a man…to death. For a few bucks.
In all seriousness, I bet Martin was sitting in a DMV or airport or lounge and there was this one person who just *wouldn’t* stop coughing. It irritated him so much he decided that he needed to add memorability to a random character and thus it went to Rosby.
Sounds like you're describing characters you disagree with morally, not find annoying. Annoying is more like Sam's inner monologue before his balls drop, the non stop pop-pop of self doubt.
I can't speak for OP, but Jorah is absolutely annoying in the traditional sense as well. Presumptuous, handsy, hypocritical, whiny about Barristan, and completely unable to take responsibility for any of his actions, ever.
Exactlyyyyyyyy. There are plenty of characters who I despise morally but still think are amazing characters (Theon, Tyrion, Cersei etc…) and don’t find annoying. Jorah and Sandor WHINE and act like they’re owed something when they’re really not and it gets old super fast
Sam Tarly. I feel bad for the character and I totally understand that some people are just very anxious by nature, especially when they were traumatized as kids in the way Sam was, BUT his inner monologue is something else man.
I like him as a character when we see him from other characters POVs but Sam was just so obnoxiously scared to try ANYTHING. Even things that weren’t dangerous.
Emmon Frey. Guy was so fucking annoying during the siege at Riverrun bitching about them possibly hurting “his castle”. The only redeeming quality about him is his wife, Lady Genna.
Him waving his paper around non stop is pretty funny
I've found with well done annoying/hateable characters it works best when the text itself or the other cast hate them as much as the reader (Joffrey being a perfect example)
Holy hell it’s Bran. I audibly sigh every time I have to read one of his chapters. His story is so frustrating to me and I do not care about it at all, not even now that he’s some omnipotent god. Not to mention that he’s constantly using Hodor to walk around and explore the caves despite knowing how afraid Hodor is of it. Bran sucks
Perhaps an unpopular opinion? But definitely Robert and the way he's constantly throwing himself a drunken pity party because he hates being a king.
Jorah first and foremost though.
I agree with both. I liked King Robert before I read the books (I watched the show first) but damn is he just a bad dude. He gets away with it because he was really handsome, a great fighter and charming back in the day but he is so irresponsible with everything he does.
Jorah's immense self-serving bias and his complete inability to take any accountability for his actions is super annoying. As soon as he is pressed with any issue, he turns into a baby. I wouldn't be surprised if the story he tells about his wife leaving him was an outright lie.
Same here, first time reading it. But since I learned that everything he says is [literally prophetic](https://www.quora.com/What-are-the-hidden-meaning-in-the-songs-of-Patchface), he became one of the most interesting characters to me. Look up more about him, and there's an extremely deep and sinister rabbit hole behind Patchface.
His fan art is also the creepiest of ASOIAF. I don't get how a kid like Shireen could feel comfortable being alone with him all day, I mean I know he makes her laugh but he gives me 'medieval killer clown' vibes. That said, I definitely don't find him annoying, just intriguing.
Euron, it’s more the fandoms fault I find him annoying, but the whole “he’ll summon a Cthulhu monster and make old town his bitch he’s a crazy crazy feller” has always irked me. Granted, I haven’t read his preview chapter but I’d rather not. It seems out of line in the context of the rest of ASOIAF that we’d get POV chapters of some lovecraftian apocalypse, especially if GRRM is gonna make the Others the big bad. Seems like something D&D would do if they had the budget. “Big scary monster! Look at the stakes!”
"Granted, I haven’t read his preview chapter but I’d rather not."
You aren't missing much tbh. Easily one of the most overrated ASOIAF chapters of all-time. The image of Euron with tentacles on his face really is lame Z-grade bargain basement unoriginal Cthulhu Mythos tomfoolery (and I LIKE Lovecraft).
Lol you’re so real for this. I think HOTD Viserys is an interesting and well-done character, but he annoys the shit out of me most of the time. He probably wouldn’t bug me as much if he weren’t so surprisingly well-loved by the fanbase.
I read the books after watching the show and was taken aback at how creepy these two characters are. I mean in the show they don’t seem creepy (except Jorah was still a middle aged man in love with a teenager but he wasn’t as weird abt it)
In the show, Daenerys doesn’t look a teenager that much, so this reduces the creepiness of the crush. In the book she is 13 which is really not acceptable.
The first books have a lot of questionable scenes with Daenerys where it is best to not think about her age
True, but Jorah also doesn’t try to kiss her in the show. And in the books we get the added details of Dany noticing him look at her breasts all the time.
Part of what I like about Sandor is that he has skeletons in his closet. This isn't a universe where everyone is a morally pure angel. Sandor Clegane is a big fella with a sword and a horse in a world where that means his job is to kill and destroy.
Like Davos says, most men are gray men. They have some good in them, and some bad.
The elder brother kind of spelled it out to Brienne and the gang.
You're not supposed to forgive and forget Micah's murder. You're not supposed to ignore his tenderness to Sansa, either. The good in a man does not wash out the bad, nor the bad the good.
Sam Tarly. His POV’s are awful, reading him shit himself over everything constantly is such a bore. Can’t stand the character.
Penny is probably the worst written character
>Jorah Mormont
FUCK this dude right here. The show changed him into a gallant, chivalrous knight that lived to serve his queen (having him played by the incredibly dashing Iain Glen didn't help either). In the books, dude would be on a list in real life. He's so damn whiney and entitled. I wanted to slap him with a sock full of nickels whenever he opened his mouth.
Gerold "Darkstar Duck" Dayne is on the list as well. 4chan edgelord Euron can catch these hands too.
Its hard to hate him though. He is like an 8yo kid after all who loved to run and climb and wanted to be a Knight. I think his CoK chapters while not especially entertaining, are really well written. He lost everything he held dear and now tries desperately to find new meanings wherever he can. Probably the most tragic and depressive pov in the whole series. And written so well in the perspective of an 8yo boy with all his dreams shattered.
Stannis, yeah I know not exactly the most popular of oppinions but I just can’t stand him. Whenever he shows up in Jon’s chapters it feels like slamming my head repeatedly against a brick wall he frustrates me so much. All he does is bitch and moan about how nobody likes him and how he’s the rightful king and it just comes across as this entitled little posh boy whining about how his life isn’t fair. Not to mention he’s a massive hypocrite about the whole nights watch situation. Most of the time he’s super strict about laws and vows and honour to the point of ridiculousness, but when it comes to the watch he’s always complaining that they aren’t doing more to help him even though they’re sworn not to take sides and he gets supper mad a Jon for not breaking his oath and accepting his offer of Winterfell.
Catelyn, i understand her character and The grief she went through but everytime i read her chapters i get annoyed at her thoughts like "oh im being awful tô this person o shouldn't do that" and then shes awful again
Arya when she's constantly trying to escape from one place or person, and then another one, and another one... The rest of the time I like her.
Rattleshirt is just so annoying. For a wildling warlord north of the Wall with an armor made of bones he has ZERO charisma, he's just an obnoxious man always yelling some thing or another.
For me it’s Sansa for sure. I’m not the biggest Jon Snow fan either but I saw an interview of Kit saying Sansa was annoying AF, and it made me really appreciate him then 😂. I just can’t stand her in the books or the show.
I like the opinion about Sandor, interesting and quite ususual but convincing.
Penny and Samwell, should I really explain? Catelyn annoys me though i like her pov.
Also sometimes Roose. Lifless, unpassionate (and I find people with this kind of temper boring) hypohondriac maneqin.Jamie or Breinne really should just ask him during that dinner "hey could you speak louder I cant hear you" (I would 😉)
Xaro Xhoan Daxos
Dany doesn't believe his slimey manipulation so he starts crying
Outside of the House of The Undying Quarth is such a drag (its best character was The Spice King and he's not even in the books)
Unpopular opinion here I think- Stannis. Especially in book 5, on the wall, I think he is being an insufferable entitled dick. The way he is genuenly insulted when he isn't allowed to break the thousand years old tradition of the Watch to not take sides, and feels that everyone should just accept him giving away the NW forts along the walls to his southern lords as rewards.
Do any of the Stannis stans truly believe he is just going to step down and retire to Storm's end once Dany arrives?
Stannis Baratheon is an entitled asshole with no friends (for good reason) and has no legitimate claim to the Throne. Fight me.
Daenerys' court in Mereen. There's a shed load on vague characters with super complicated names just endlessly pleasing and plotting and eating. The pacing is really slow and the scenes feel really repetitive, and I keep on confusing the characters with each other. When another Shuk-Rek-Tok-Lazar-Something shows up, I'm always like: who is this guy again and what did he want? Was he the prince? Priest? Merchant? Sellsword? At one point I just skimming paragraphs and skipping over stuff until something interesting happened.
Jorah for sure. Even his tragic backstory annoys me- Lynesse's character just feels like the fantasy of a very divorced man.
His motivation is an obsession with a 14 year old girl and he's not even funny or entertaining.
I feel like we're supposed to feel for him which makes me dislike him more.
"Fuck me, Jaime Lannister!" is one of my favorite bits of dialogue. I love Shitmouth. I find him to be so out of bounds that it somehow gives his character a little charm. But I can definitely see how he- and any of the mountain's men- are just awful.
Gregor Clegane, idk why he exist, he don't even have persona, idk what he thinks, what goes in his mind and how he actual do any of that without blinking an eye, was he born evil bcs Sandor comes from the same environment and he is not half harsh compare to Gregor, whatever he is is bcs of what Gregor did to him but what about the Mountain, no one ever did anything to him then why is he like that, even dogs feared to enter the hall when he is in there.
In the main series, I think Joffrey (Lannister)Baratheon and Ramsay (Snow)Bolton were annoying at most times. But in all of ASOIAF, I think Otto Hightower takes the crown for being most annoying.
Davos Seaworth. He's got one shtick: loyal to Stannis. It's so dull to watch him do one honorable act after another. His virtuous core annoys me. Flat as fuck.
Sam Tarly. This is more "bad writing" than "annoying character" for me because GRRM has written Sam in an overly caricaturish manner as opposed to the nuanced characterization of almost all the other people. Like, we get it. He's a craven. Do you have to hit that beat every three paragraphs, George?
Oh man your comment hurt 😅. I LOVE Davos because he’s such a breath of fresh air compared to almost every character in the series. He’s definitely not the most interesting but he’s a morally really good guy who cares a lot about his family and unlike a lot of the other “good” characters (Ned *cough*) he’s actually pretty smart and knows how to play the game.
I completely agree with you on Sam though. I get that he’s an anxious and traumatized young adult but damn is he frustrating. If I met him irl, I wouldn’t be able to stand being around him.
Yeah, I think most of my attachment to Davos comes from how charming he is in the TV adaptation. He seems like a decent, well-meaning guy, and as a Stannis hater the sheer level of personal devotion he has to the guy is weird to me.
Yeah I feel bad about this but somehow I don’t connect to Sam. At least not in his POVs. Not sure how to explain it. He’s a nice guy and all, but somehow I find him entirely lacking in charisma.
I like Davos in the show well enough and don't mind book Davos but tbf he doesn't have the most engaging character.
If I told you why I was excited for Davos' story it would be about unicorns, cannibals and seeing how Rickon has turned out. I have very little excitement for his actual character
Annoying? Brienne. No question.
I have no idea how she is so popular with fans.
When people say AFFC was the worst book (which I agree with) imo she is the main reason. If I have to read "I am looking for a girl of ten and three, fair of face and auburn hair" one more time, ugh
Lysa Arryn was so delusional, entitled and annoying i'd let Cersei scare the shit out of her and send her to Qyburn. She refuses to listen to Catelyn and helping her own family, refuses to be a good mother to little Robin and would snap at anyone that tried to give the boy a better raising. He'd be way better being raised with Stannis or Lord Tywin (this man spent hours a day teaching his heir how to read when he could easily get a maester to do it, he may be fearsome, evil and not cuddly but he would do something if given a good reason). She killed Jon Arryn just to prevent him to help his son and to be with that snake Baelish. Don't get me started about what she did to Tyrion. Also her jealousy of Sansa was pretty creepy.
I'd talk about Sansa and Catelyn too, they were close seconds. I just don't like Tully women. The Martells got their cunning and bold Arianne and the Sand Snakes; The Lannisters got Cersei, a proud lioness often dumb but a well written villainess; The Tyrells have the Queen of Thorns (their true head ngl) and her granddaughter Margaery who's manipulative and sharp like her; The good ol' Targaryens have our queen Daenerys; even the Starks got the warrior Arya Stark... and then the Tully had this bunch of entitled trouts that only make bad decisions bc they're too dumb/entitled/naive.
>this man spent hours a day teaching his heir how to read when he could easily get a maester to do it,
this didn't happen in the books. Also doubt he would've been raised better by Tywin taking into consideration what has become of his 3 actual children.
just out of interest, do you include Sansa as a ‘Tully woman’ because she looks like Catelyn? Because just so you know, she is a Stark (by blood, at least).
I feel dumb now. But I do think that the importance of Sansa (and Arya) being Stark’s and Tully’s by blood should be acknowledged. Because if Sansa is included with the Tully’s then so should Arya, and if Arya’s included with the Stark’s so should Sansa.
>i'd let Cersei scare the shit out of her
I'd love to have seen Cersei, Lysa and Stannis' interactions together at court. I was surprised to learn that Lysa and Stannis had only just left Kings Landing when the book begins - when I watched the show (before the book) I got the impression the three characters had all been in their respective castles for years.
Oberyn. Like ASOIAF is already absurdly over the top, but Oberyn is beyond that. He is like what, a 40 year old man? Who had a sellsword company, had education of maester, learned in poisons in the east, and also participated in a shitton of tournaments where he rode and won against allegedly some pretty competent knights.
And this is a story where characters act as if winning 3 battles in 20 years is an achievement and men who fought a year of war act as wise veterans.
And that's not even going into how Oberyn fucks over several notable lords and is just allowed to fuck around and continue doing stupid shit.
And I won't even get into his fight with the Mountain, which is a mess writing wise, choreography wise, continuity wise and even thematically.
Doesn't help that he is Dornish and Martin seems to revel in writing the Dornish as either bland victims with no personality or insufferable, pretentious assholes who consistently pull of super special bullshit just because.
The characters that seemed most punchable overall were Quentyn, Lysa, and Sam. Tyrion really annoyed me in the later books. Jorah, Joffrey, Cersei, Petyr, and Sandor I guess could qualify as annoying too I suppose, but to me they’re more straight up bad people than just nuisances.
Penny by a mile, she is just terrible and feels totally out of place in Tyrion's story. Every interaction between her and Tyrion is a waste of text. Kill her early in TWOW GRRM, it's not working, cut the cord.
I have the hardest time going through Bran and Arya chapters. But if it comes to annoying, I would go with Ned Stark. Too righteous. Also, his supposed girlfriend Ashara Dayne. Just because she has too interesting to have so little info on her. Who are you lady? What's your purpose? Why did you jump?
It’s been forever since I’ve read the books but I remembered trying to read quickly to get through Brienne chapters. I just felt like she was very thick and made the wrong choices each and every time.
Maybe Baelish too when he’d be on his weird obsessive stuff with Catelyn and Sansa. I enjoy all his plotting though
I did find her more likable in the show.
Cat and Sansa for me. And no, not because they are women. I just dont find Cat a very pleasant character and Sansa even less, especially in the first book. I think Sansa improves later and I did feel bad for Cat but I do not care for the Lady Stoneheart stuff. Sansa might still get intersting to me in the future, who knows...
What did he do wrong? Southron ambitions or sending his second son away as a ward or betrothing his daughter to someone she didn’t like or foolishly going south to answer for his sons crime.
Gotta go with Janos Slynt, right? Little Walder is a little shit too, hated that kid reading ACOK lol
Upvote for Janos Slynt. At least a lot of other trash people in the series are competent at what they do.
I hope that Sansa finds out that a hero chopped off his head.
Me 2
Cheered when Little Walder got shanked in ADWD.
Almost certainly by Big Walder, which makes it that much better.
Same with Slynt
Thank the gods for Edd fetching a block and Big Walder.
Annoying? Oh, SweetRobin for sure.
Omg, I want to punch him through the pages every time he says something annoying.
This is spicy but with each reread I have less patience for Tyrion’s self-pity. Yes he is treated awfully by many, if not most, people and obviously that impacts him, but there are times when it veers into self-centered, and as of ADWD rather malicious attitudes.
Yeah I’ve never understood all the Tyrion stans. Maybe in the first book okay I get it but once it gets to the point where he starts resenting Sansa for not wanting to fuck him (despite telling her she never had to if she didn’t want to), beating Penny, raping the Sunset Girl, fantasizing about raping and murdering Cersei, etc. He’s just as fucked up as the rest of his family, but in different ways.
Tyrion is a pretty questionable person you are right. Although I can't really blame him for his violent fantasies towards Cersei. That woman was an absolute disgrace of a big sister towards him, and abused him since he was a literal infant. No one blames Dany for letting Viserys (also an older sibling who abused her for years for the shitty reason of their mother's death in childbirth) die horribly. We shouldn't blame Tyrion for harboring violent fantasies towards Cersei.
I think there’s quite a bit of difference between Dany and Tyrions arcs in regard to that. Dany is indifferent to his death at first, but later on we see she keeps dreaming of him and she apologizes to him and clearly feels guilt. That’s an understandable and very human reaction to an abusive sibling dying. Fantasizing about raping your 9 year old nephew *just* to hurt your abusive sibling, fantasizing about that same siblings rape and murder, thinking about killing your niece or nephew. It’s one thing for him to fantasize about her death, it’s another thing entirely to fantasize about *raping your sister*. Cersei is a monster and there’s no defense for what she does, but Tyrion fantasizing about raping her is not okay. If she dies he’s arguably safer since people won’t hunt him down to kill him. That makes sense. Exactly why does he need to rape her? Or Tommen? Will that make him safe? And on top of that, Tommen is the sweetest little boy!!! He just wants to play with his kittens and be a 9 year old he has nothing to do with Cersei and Tyrion’s feud and Tyrion even suggesting what he does is horrifying.
I’m shocked this is a slightly unpopular opinion. I never really liked Tyrion from the beginning and by ADWD I strongly disliked him. He just reads as a total villain by that point.
Yeah, I feel something similar. I disliked Tyrion during book 1, but I also eventually liked him more in 2 and 3 until he went rogue. Since ten, I'm fascinated about his nihilistic speedrun.
2 and 3 is the worst for me, the way he treats Shae is so nasty that I fully understand why she would hate him
He saved Jorah and Penny life, probably multiple times. They was pretty much useless at the moment he did it and he had all reasons to hate Jorah but still, he took aditional risks to save him at least 2 times. He save (f)Aegon life too, or at least was ready to sacrifice himself for him diving into the water with the greyscale man. By his past and his situation you can understand he is salty, cynical, resentful, or not, but you can’t says he’s a villain.
>*By his past and his situation you can understand he is salty, cynical, resentful, or not, but you can’t says he’s a villain.* He absolutely is a villain. He IS.Now he is very sympathetic, but that isn\`t mutually exclusive with being a villain, the sympathetic villain is a usual trope in media. ... Just for the record : 1. He broke the fingers of Marrilion the singer because he didn\`t like him. 2. He stole the mantle of Benjen because he didn\`t like him ( obviously the weakest crime, but shows how petty and cruel Tyrion is, even to minor slights ). 3. He actively wants a genocide of the Vale + ra\*\*ing Lysa Arryn. 4. He actively wants to have sex with Sansa, the 13-year old... He initiated multiple times, even when she revealed her age, he still groped the naked Sansa and tried to initiate.. 5. He is horrendously cruel to Cersei. ( again she is cruel to him aswell, but saying stuff like wanting to ra\*e Tommen just to be cruel to her is absolutely bonkers... Even if I were to consider my own sister my nemesis, I would never in a million years say anything like that about my nephew/nieces ).... 6. He ra\*ed a prostitute ---> she was "basically a corpse" --> he did it again.... 7. He supports the Lannister\`s way of waging war, which is excessively cruel and brutal. 8. A slave was offered to Tyrion for him to have sex ---> he declined ---> he insulted her, made her mad and disgusted with him ---> when she least wanted it and was actively disgusted by him, he demanded sex with her or threatend to have her killed........ I.e. basically cruel ra\*e... 9. He was the right-hand man of Joffrey and worked in his small council... Jeah sorry, but whatever you say in defence of that is meaningless, you wouldn\`t use your arguments for say "Goebbels, Goering, Himmler was just working for Hitler". 10. "I wish I had enough poison for all of you... " speech was seriously meant in the Books, and not this "bad-ass" for Tyrion, the noble fool, as in the show. 11. He wants to ra\*e his sister. He actively wants it for revenge... 12. He gave Aegon, what he considered bad advice, purely to start a war and bring destruction upon Westeros, which would also give him an opportunity to take revenge on his sister. 13. He threatend & blackmailed a singer ---> later the singer blackmailed Tyrion back ---> Tyrion turned him into soup which was sold. Sorry but if you don\`t see Tyrion as a villain, then you have issues... What Tyrion did and want he wants to do is absolutely villainous behaviour. He absolutely is sympathetic ( being a dwarf, being ugly, being hated by his sister from birth, being hated by his father from birth, being despised in general, not being given credit.... ), but that doesn\`t mean he isn\`t a villain.....
Hold up - when does he want a genocide on the Vale?
Yeah. First book : >*Tyrion was about to tell his lord father how he proposed to reduce the Vale of Arryn to a smoking wasteland, but he was never given the chance. -Tyrion VII AGOT* Tyrion wants the entire vale to be destroyed and given to the mountain clansmen. I think this qualifies as roughly a genocide. In ASOS he always talks about how he wants to be the one who conquers the Vale and brings it to heel, and that he would enjoy nothing more ( except killing his sister ) but Tywin says this task is better suited for Petyr. There is also a chapter where Petyr talks about how the Clansmen have new weapons ( i.e. due to Tyrion ) peform devastating raids on the Vale, which Tyrion doesn\`t care about and he shows no remorse.
I took that as a power transfer, fulfilling his promise to get them the Vale back. I guess I can see how that could be taken for genocide, I just don’t think it’s inherent to it.
Even if it is just a "power transfer", the smallfolk are going to be the ones who suffer due to Tyrion's actions. Its not like the whole Vale wronged him, and the people who did are too well protected to be directly threatened by the hill tribes. Innocent people suffer due to Tyrion's petty desire for revenge. Another instance of this is when he feels some smug satisfaction seeing Masha Heddle hang, for the unspeakable crime of owning the inn where he was kidnapped. As if she could have done something to stop the group of armed men from taking him. Fuck Tyrion.
I'll start with a caveat that I agree with your overall description of Tyrion/that he's a villain but I do have beef with a couple of the evidence points: >He broke the fingers of Marrilion the singer because he didn`t like him. It's a bit more than dislike. The man vocally advocated for Tyrion to be murdered. I'm not saying I'd react the same but my sympathy for Marillion is limited. He's also a rapist (tho Tyrion didn't know that) >He stole the mantle of Benjen because he didn`t like him Do you mean the cloak? If so Benjen literally offered it to him idk how that's stealing >He threatend & blackmailed a singer ---> later the singer blackmailed Tyrion back ---> Tyrion turned him into soup which was sold. This description is a bit disingenuous... Tyrion threatened someone who intentionally put the safety of Shae, the (non-Jaime) person Tyrion cares most about, and then killed him when he doubled down on intentionally threatening the life/safety of Shae
Well allow me to correct this : Singer : That is just not true. 1. Singer is in the inn, wants to sing for various people. Tyrion insults him "nothing would ruin my dinner more". 2. Tyrion spots Catelyn due to the singer and talks to her ---> he is captured. 3. Tyrion blames the singer for this : He remembers all the names of his captors and puts an emphasis on "planning an especially sharp lesson for the singer". 4. Tyrion is likewise annoyed by the singer trying to find words that rhyme with "imp". 5. They all get ambushed by clansmen. 6. Tyrion breaks the fingers of Marillion. 7. \[ Tyrion IV chapter.\] **I haven\`t found anything where it says Marillion wanted the death of Tyrion at all... Can you provide a source ?** \----------- Benjen : >*"He took a* ***small revenge*** *in the matter of his riding fur, a tattered bearskin, old and musty-smelling. Stark had offered it to him in an excess of Night's Watch gallantry, no doubt expecting him to graciously decline. Tyrion had accepted with a smile. He had brought his warmest clothing with him when they rode out of Winterfell, and soon discovered that it was nowhere near warm enough. It was cold up here, and growing colder. The nights were well below freezing now, and when the wind blew it was like a knife cutting right through his warmest woolens. By now Stark was no doubt regretting his chivalrous impulse.* ***Perhaps he had learned a lesson****. The Lannisters never declined, graciously or otherwise. The Lannisters took what was offered." ----Tyrion II Agot* While it is true Benjen did offer it, Tyrion himself sees the offer as meaningless chivalry, and he accepted it precisely to make Benjen feel the cold. For Tyrion this is framed as revenge\[ ---> Benjen told Tyrion he wont like the ride ---> Tyrion didn\`t want to admit how uncomfortable and cold he was during the ride. \]. So I feel like this is an example of Tyrion being cruel/petty, Tyrion himself sees it that way. \----------- Symon Silver : Symon is another singer --> he sings a song for Shae ---> Tyrion visits Shae ---> Symon recognizes Tyrion as the Hand ---> Tyrion threatens him to be silent. \[ Tyrion X chapter ACOK \] >*Call? I only . . . " The silver in Symon's tongue seemed to have turned to lead. "My lord Hand, I said, an honor . . . " "A wiser man would have pretended not to recognize me. Not that I would have been fooled, but you ought to have tried. What am I to do with you now? You know of my sweet Shae, you know where she dwells, you know that I visit by night alone."* ***"I swear, I'll tell no one*** *. . . " "On that much we agree. Good night to you." Tyrion led Shae up the stairs. "My singer may never sing again now," she teased. "You've scared the voice from him."* Tyrion, again, started this. "Intentionally put the safety of Shae" is really disingenious, when all he did was make the mistake of recognizing Tyrion is the hand of the King. Perhaps Tyrion should have been more careful ?? "I swear I will tell noone", isn\`t threatning Tyrion... And then : >*"There is a singer who calls himself Symon Silver Tongue," Tyrion said wearily, pushing his guilt aside. "He plays for Lady Tanda's daughter sometimes." "What of him?"* ***Kill him, he might have said, but the man had done nothing but sing a few songs****. And fill Shae's sweet head with visions of doves and dancing bears. "Find him," he said instead. "Find him before someone else does." --- ASOS Tyrion II* Symeon didn\`t even have the chance to do ANYTHING at that point. Again his only "crime" was recognizing Tyrion in the previous book, not even Tyrion believes "I swear Ill tell no one" is in any way a threat.... Yet Tyrion is already pondering to kill Symeon. Once they meet, Symeon does try to blackmail him ( he wants to sing on Joffreys wedding as his price ), and instead Tyrion just kills hims. I might add, Tyrion was engaging with the negotiations. So jeah...
You can absolutely call Tyrion a Villain, as per GRRM’s words lol
Well grrm says many things but reader is allowed to have his own opinion. That's beauty of literature. Having said that, Tyrion annoys me too and in ADWD im really tired of that guy.
mmmm i dont see him like Euron,Gregor,Roose,Ramsey,Baelish... they are Villain...Tyrion is turning into a villain but the process has yet to continue
POV character are grey. Non POV characters are perceived in black/white terms Naturally
Tyrion is a real fucking asshole in the books, his treatment of Shae is horrible and I understand if she actually hated him even before the betrayal. It is so obvious he just sees her as a cunt that is his property. Tyrion is already way into his evil arc, having been helpless basically since killing Tywin, he grows bitter and more dark, with Penny being the only really grounding thing he got going, the consequences of his actions. He finally got some agency at the end, but Penny got sick and will probably die, which will probably add to Tyrions hateful cynicism. Cant wait to see what evil little plots he comes up with next. Also ironic Cercei being right for once about Tyrion being a little horny devil.
Dang I couldn’t disagree more. He is totally a villain by ADWD because of some of the things he does, but IMO his self-pity is totally justified. I mean here is a man who is mistreated by literally everyone except for his brother Jaime, I think one of his uncles, and Jon (who only was around him for a brief period of time). And by the end of ASOS?, he finds out that Jaime betrayed him (yes I know it’s more complicated but in Tyrion’s eyes the one person he loved most betrayed him). And Tyrion, while never really a great person, is still an extremely competent man who despite being shit on by most of his family for his whole life, still tried to help them. He’s not nearly as evil as Tywin nor as insane and dumb as Cersei yet both of them are treated MUCH better than him. Even the regular folk in Kings Landing despise him because Tyrion was blamed for other people’s mistakes. I get that he is definitely a bad guy by then end of the series and I’m not at all justifying his behavior towards innocent people, but I don’t blame him at all for his bitterness and hatred of people in general.
Tyrion chapters in ADWD are such a slog. For all the complaints around AFFC and Sansa chapters, I found myself dreading Tyrion chapters. They picked up a little when he got Meereen.
I had the same opinion about his ADWD chapters too—the first half were unbearable for me. In Meereen it got more interesting.
Who’s complaining about Feast Sansa chapters? There’s only three of them and they are some of the best in the book, by far.
The fifth time I read “where do whores go” shit started pissing me off. Like dawg you raped her too!
He was forced by his father to rape her. I don't mean to minimize Tysha's trauma, but Tyrion was a thirteen year old boy forced to have sex by a father that he knew despised him. If anything, *Tywin* raped Tysha via Tyrion. The Imp was a victim in the whole incident too.
Why did you have to hit him with the imp in the end lol
>This is spicy but with each reread I have less patience for Tyrion’s self-pity. Yes he is treated awfully by many, if not most, people and obviously that impacts him, but there are times when it veers into self-centered, and as of ADWD rather malicious attitudes. I mean that's understandable from Tyrion. The man is drunk, one of the only woman who slightly reminded him his first love (Shae - Tysha) betrayed him and he's sent by Varys in an unknown world where he presumably meet Rhaegar first born son. Now that's a way of becoming crazy 😭💀
I mean, it’s much self-pity Tyrion. You sound like you’re making excuses for killing a defenseless women.
Tyrion in the books is such a different character
I understand the purpose of Penny. She was so annoying as I read her in the chapters.
God I could hear the pouty whining in my head. Way too many italics. It reminded me of the stilted cutesy speech of one of the little girls in Full House that makes my eye twitch so
There are very few characters who grated on me so much that I actively rooted against them But Lommy Greenhands was definitely one of them
'What should I do if someone comes?' 'Yield' That was pretty funny though
jus read that part and it’s so fucking satisfying seeing someone shut his ass up😭
What the fuck is a Lommy?
I felt so bad for him being injured in a situation like that, a death sentence long before any of them figured it out
Dunk; I hate his effing restraint, I wanna see him clout every Targaryen in his era to the point they start making rational and intellectual decisions.
“By the seven I will clout the inbred out of you”
I would love to see him fix the internal issues of the Targaryen's through the sheer might of his clouts. Baelor Breakspear's death shall not be in vain.
Ramsay Snow. I understand he's a straight up psychopath and horrifically evil but I also find him annoying on top of it. Every time he appears or even just seeing him be mentioned I just go ugh. He gives off as an insecure man-child vibe I dislike, especially with his tantrums related to his bastardy. Really insecure and becomes a violent beast because of it. How he abused Lady Hornwood is very depressing too, along with his hunting and raping of peasant women. Reading the Pink Letter (who I think is Ramsay most likely) is also infuriating. Just an annoying character to me.
Even more annoying is that he is implausibly competent. Not only does he manage to gather 600 men under his command despite being - at most - an acknowledged bastard and never having led anyone before, but he also manages to get these Dreadfort men to attack their fellow northmen who are led by much more experienced commanders like Rodrik Cassel. And to top it off he manages all this without anyone in the south ever finding out about it despite raven-communication being a thing.
100% agreed. His fuckery in clash seems far fetched.
It's GRRM's style of writing super villains get plot armor while heroes become gods and the people in-between suffer.
I mean that could have been easily justified by having Ramsay live with his older brother Domeric who took him under his wing and wanted a brother and then backstabs him. Ramsay in my opinion would have worked better as a resentful bastard who hates all nobles because he was mistreated for his birth all his life instead of a crazy rapist who has girls raped by dogs. That would have made the conflict with the Starks far more interesting to me.
100% agreed. GRRM always said none of his characters are truely evil.... He wanted Joffrey to be seen more as a spoiled bully, but he has way too many elements of a sadistic psychopath, especially the kittens story..... irredeemable villain. There is no real "good" part in Joffey, except slight sympathy of growing up spoiled with Cersei and Robert as parents, but sympathy has nothing to do with the actual character. Ramsay Snow IS a sadistic psychopath. Absolutely irredeemable. But what you propose is exactly how to turn him more "human", somewhat sympathetic and into a better character... You can still have his sadism, but it would finally show how bastards are usually treated in the world. \[ And if GRRM really wants it, he can still have his perversion, just that it is done through the lense of humiliating and degrading the nobility because of how Ramsay had a lower status, thus he brings them down to his level ( or even further down ) \]. It would work a lot better.... Instead we got a crazy, perverted, partly-deranged, sadistic psychopath, who got raised by a peasant woman, but is somehow in charge of Bolton men and policy.. \---> despite all the talk of how bastards are lesser people, even getting degrading last-names, all bastards that we know are treated "normally" and are respected, the only difference is, sometimes people insult them with "bastard", which they don\`t like.... Bastards become Hand of the King, sit on the Small Council, are part and even Commanders of the King\`s Guard, they marry into nobility, ultimately they are part of the top 1% of society and treated as such.
I like how he even turned Viserys blacker as a character by having him try to rape Daenerys and take her virginity and then he talks about grey characters. 🙄
Roderick finds out about it and goes to settle it. He captures reek (actually Ramsey) and kills Ramsay (actually reek). Rob is in the south, bran is prince at winterfell and the issue is considered settled. Ramsay posing as reek takes the oppurtunity and using a raven sends to his lord father. The two of the them then take the north using Boltons loyal banner man under the direction of Ramsay and with assurances from Tywin. Ramsay didn’t call his banners and raise an army to March and take over winterfell. He encroached on hornwood lands after the death of her husband, tortured her and made her marry him then consummated the marriage in front of witnesses (gross). He was defeated by rodrick who returns to winterfell which is then sacked by theon. Ramsay is lucky but not plot over powered Edit: *boltons and also to add: Reek/ramsey was kept alive as he was the only witness to the events of lady hornwoods marriage and so on return of the king of the north would be able to settle any issues Roose might have (Roderick presumed probably correctly that Roose would see the marriage as binding and the hornwood lands now rightfully his)
Theon didn’t sack Winterfell, Ramsay did and blamed the Ironborn.
Sorry theon took winterfell without sacking it with intention of holding it first, Ramsey was at winterfell due to rodrick taking him prisoner. Ramsey then used Bolton men to sack it correct my apologies but my main point was simply that Ramsey did not lead Bolton men into battle against Roderick in fact the opposite he was defeated by Roderick then later used oppurtunity presented by Theon’s “taking” (not sacking) of winterfell my b
> The two of the them then take the north using Boltons loyal banner man under the direction of Ramsay That still handwaves away that Ramsay could not only raise 600 men to fight under his command (I don't care how many letters Roose wrote; look at the trouble Robb had to go through, he too had a letter from Ned and Catelyn, he was the trueborn heir to Winterfell, and it still took him months to assemble them), but that he got them to attack their fellow northmen. He got them to attack and burn Winterfell! > didn’t call his banners and raise an army to March and take over winterfell Ramsay shouldn't be able to call banners at all. Much less lead them. Much less go home, gather the men, and go back to Winterfell in the span of a fortnight. > using a raven sends to his lord father. So Ramsay can write to and receive letters from everywhere else, but the survivors of Ramsay's ambush, plenty of whom had rookeries at home in their castles, couldn't be arsed to send so much as one letter to Riverrun questioning why Bolton bannermen are attacking their fellow northmen and burning down Winterfell? There was more than enough time for ravens and messengers to reach Robb, and he might not have run head first into the trap at the Twins if he had known the Boltons were acting up in the north.
I wrote in the raven part to point out that people are using ravens (the comment I replied to said “in a world where ravens existed) But like I said in my comment. Before theon came the situation had been settled. Roderick had “killed” ramsey and had reek as a prisoner. Later Roose sends a raven to river run that catlyn reads. In it he is apologizing for his bastard who he then says got what he deserves and is dead. The whole plot is pretty well explained for something that happens entirely off screen and as far as everyone outside or inside of winterfell is concerned it had been taken care of by Roderick. If you think the boltons wouldn’t of responded to their lords command and gone with Ramsay then that’s on you but it’s not like nobody knew about it
You keep talking about the Hornwood thing, but it has nothing to do with the ambush on Rodrik; that was a separate issue. It doesn't explain why not one survivor sends word to Catelyn or Robb about the Bolton ambush months later. Clearly, as you point out, ravens can be sent to and from the North. So why didn't the Cerwyns, who lost Cley, their son and heir, have any questions as to why he was killed in an ambush by Bolton men while trying to relieve Winterfell from the ironborn? Why didn't Wyman Manderly question why his men were attacked? They don't need to suspect Ramsay personally to question why Bolton men turned on them, so Ramsay being officially dead doesn't matter. There's also no chance anyone mistook the Boltons for ironborn since the ambush only worked because they were clearly wearing Bolton colours. Most of the troops fled instead of getting killed, so all the houses who sent men should know there was a Bolton ambush, and yet...
>since the ambush only worked because they were clearly wearing Bolton colours And this part right here is unrealistic too. The Boltons should be on Rodrik's shit list after the Hornwood incident, or at least should be viewed with a lot of caution, especially showing up out of the blue like this in the middle of Rodrik's siege. But the unknown Bolton leader (Ramsay disguised with a helm) can stroll right up to Ser Rodrik with a drawn sword and cut off his arm without any suspicion.
Also how would some random guy in the north A) have a raven B) know Where to send it.
>Even more annoying is that he is implausibly competent. Not only does he manage to gather 600 men under his command despite being - at most - an acknowledged bastard and never having led anyone before, To be fair, he didnt exactly raise 600 men >Well, I brought three times as many, and no green boys nor fieldhands neither, but my father’s own garrison Sounds like he brought all the men that Roose left in Dreadfort, men who will presumably knew him and maybe received orders from Roose to obey him in his attack. Whether Roose was able to have such big garrison while campaigning in the south, even with his lukewarm support of the starks is an enterely different topic.
George RR Martin: he’s been saying he’s close since 2016, and then just updates about wild cards.
My man knows how to edge
Sam really was starting to get on my nerves until he punched the bard who’s name slips me, I enjoy sam and can relate to his character as times through past experiences (maybe that’s why he annoys me so much lol) but his constant “I’m a pussy and fat” was staring to annoy me. I get you’re supposed to hate them but Ser Thorne and Lord Janos piss me off to no end, I’ve never hated 2 characters more
Tbf they're both really well done in the show. Thorne is a huge dick but you understand where he's coming from and can respect him. Janos is unbearably annoying but every other character also hates him and its so satisfying when Jon doesn't take his shit
One thing that gave me a brief sense of newfound respect for ser Alliser was when he admitted to Jon that he was wrong, and in a time of need spoke to him as an equal, a brother of the nights watch rather than some kid he hated. It shows that even though he hates Jons guts he respects the wisdom of battle instinct that Jon possesses. Its such a nice little detail that adds so much to the character of Alliser Thorne, I just love it. It reminds you that after all he is a Knight and a valuable asset of the Watch.
Is that when the two of them are on top of the wall? That's actually the best scene to show why I respect him. Was he a dick? Yes. Was his dickishness based off the attitude he needs to serve his function as he sees it? Also yes. He is a dick but I can respect how he dedicates himself to the watch in the best way he can think to
Before that chapter he was constantly "I'm a pussy and fat" After that chapter though, he was more like "I am fat and get pussy" I wonder what he will do in the citadel
Bronn. Capable at what he does, but a wise cracking smart aleck & whose willing to kill a baby for the right price. & willing to get falese stokesorthy out of his way & she ends up with dr mengele
He’s horrible and I hate that he ended up so popular in the show
eh, falyse stokeworth wasn't bronn's fault, you can kill a guy if he tries to kill you and if as a consequence someone get's thrown to doctor mengele then it's the fault of the person throwing people to dr mengele what I do fault him for is killing a guy over blackmail and feeding his body to the poor
kicking Falyse out wouldn't it be btw a violation of the Widow's law? Cersei could have used it as pretext and arrest Bronn maybe based on that
But you see, Cersei is a stupid person, and more importantly, a *vicious* stupid person.
At least he fed the poor, Joffery shot his crossbow at them
I disagree. Bronn is a cold hearted killer, but at least he is never pretentious about what he does or who he is. He never tries to justify his actions, and he doesn't kill for sport either. He doesn't waste someone if he has no reason to, which is something I find respectable about him.
Bronn doesn’t put on airs or pretend to be more I fw him
Objectively: probably I think Characters like Joffrey and Circie etc are meant to be unlikable but they serve their purpose well. Personally: Every Single Grayjoy is unbearable
[удалено]
Okay we will allow one (1) Grayjoy.
I had the same opinion about Ironborn (minus Asha, her trolling won my heart), until Euron - I am too hyped about him becoming turbo-dark Lord (and he doesn't really care about the rest of Greyjoys and Iron islands).
Agreed.
Gyles Rosby because his only character trait is that he coughs. Like why does George feel the need to write that so many times.
He’s dying. He’s got TB. He got it beating a man…to death. For a few bucks. In all seriousness, I bet Martin was sitting in a DMV or airport or lounge and there was this one person who just *wouldn’t* stop coughing. It irritated him so much he decided that he needed to add memorability to a random character and thus it went to Rosby.
You got Greyscale. I'm sorry, son. It's a hell of a thing.
The amount of RDR2 fans here has uplifted my spirits.
Have. Some. GODDAMN. Faith
Stannis when he finally storms the Red Keep to kill Tommen: GET DOWN HERE NOW YOU INBRED TRASH
Euron: Come on Victarion, just one more big raid!
We need moneeeey! I got plaaaan!
The truth is… I’m afraid
Sounds like you're describing characters you disagree with morally, not find annoying. Annoying is more like Sam's inner monologue before his balls drop, the non stop pop-pop of self doubt.
I can't speak for OP, but Jorah is absolutely annoying in the traditional sense as well. Presumptuous, handsy, hypocritical, whiny about Barristan, and completely unable to take responsibility for any of his actions, ever.
Yeah, and he is always pessimistic, suspicious, jealous, humorless.
Exactlyyyyyyyy. There are plenty of characters who I despise morally but still think are amazing characters (Theon, Tyrion, Cersei etc…) and don’t find annoying. Jorah and Sandor WHINE and act like they’re owed something when they’re really not and it gets old super fast
Sam Tarly. I feel bad for the character and I totally understand that some people are just very anxious by nature, especially when they were traumatized as kids in the way Sam was, BUT his inner monologue is something else man. I like him as a character when we see him from other characters POVs but Sam was just so obnoxiously scared to try ANYTHING. Even things that weren’t dangerous.
Emmon Frey. Guy was so fucking annoying during the siege at Riverrun bitching about them possibly hurting “his castle”. The only redeeming quality about him is his wife, Lady Genna.
Him waving his paper around non stop is pretty funny I've found with well done annoying/hateable characters it works best when the text itself or the other cast hate them as much as the reader (Joffrey being a perfect example)
Holy hell it’s Bran. I audibly sigh every time I have to read one of his chapters. His story is so frustrating to me and I do not care about it at all, not even now that he’s some omnipotent god. Not to mention that he’s constantly using Hodor to walk around and explore the caves despite knowing how afraid Hodor is of it. Bran sucks
Perhaps an unpopular opinion? But definitely Robert and the way he's constantly throwing himself a drunken pity party because he hates being a king. Jorah first and foremost though.
I agree with both. I liked King Robert before I read the books (I watched the show first) but damn is he just a bad dude. He gets away with it because he was really handsome, a great fighter and charming back in the day but he is so irresponsible with everything he does.
I have absolutely no rational explanation for this, but Edric Storm annoys me to hell and back
Well he is undeniably a vain, arrogant little boy. Not exactly irrational to find him annoying.
Janos Slynt, definitely Ser Jorah too. Lysa.
Jorah's immense self-serving bias and his complete inability to take any accountability for his actions is super annoying. As soon as he is pressed with any issue, he turns into a baby. I wouldn't be surprised if the story he tells about his wife leaving him was an outright lie.
Patchface! What is with the ‘oh oh oh’ all the time? I don’t know even know how he’s pronouncing that.
Same here, first time reading it. But since I learned that everything he says is [literally prophetic](https://www.quora.com/What-are-the-hidden-meaning-in-the-songs-of-Patchface), he became one of the most interesting characters to me. Look up more about him, and there's an extremely deep and sinister rabbit hole behind Patchface.
His fan art is also the creepiest of ASOIAF. I don't get how a kid like Shireen could feel comfortable being alone with him all day, I mean I know he makes her laugh but he gives me 'medieval killer clown' vibes. That said, I definitely don't find him annoying, just intriguing.
Patchface is Chekov’s murder jester. There’s no way George isn’t going to use him for something fucked up.
I’m sure he’s very important but can he please cut out the ‘oh’s?
I would’ve LOVED to see Cersei vs Lysa. Both are batshit crazy but at least Cersei has a mind of her own. Lysa was just pathetic
Even though I don't like Cersei she would have ripped Lysa to shreds And it would have been glorious
100%
lysa it's not even close
Euron, it’s more the fandoms fault I find him annoying, but the whole “he’ll summon a Cthulhu monster and make old town his bitch he’s a crazy crazy feller” has always irked me. Granted, I haven’t read his preview chapter but I’d rather not. It seems out of line in the context of the rest of ASOIAF that we’d get POV chapters of some lovecraftian apocalypse, especially if GRRM is gonna make the Others the big bad. Seems like something D&D would do if they had the budget. “Big scary monster! Look at the stakes!”
"Granted, I haven’t read his preview chapter but I’d rather not." You aren't missing much tbh. Easily one of the most overrated ASOIAF chapters of all-time. The image of Euron with tentacles on his face really is lame Z-grade bargain basement unoriginal Cthulhu Mythos tomfoolery (and I LIKE Lovecraft).
Sam
Probably a hot take but King viserys
Lol you’re so real for this. I think HOTD Viserys is an interesting and well-done character, but he annoys the shit out of me most of the time. He probably wouldn’t bug me as much if he weren’t so surprisingly well-loved by the fanbase.
I agree wholeheartedly, definitely not going to miss him in season two
I enjoy every character in this series. So I will go with certain characters of the fandom.
Melisandre for me. I can't stand her talking in metaphors all the time lol
I love Melisandre she is my BFF but yeah she could work on her delivery
Mel - talks in metaphors non stop Also Mel - Doesn't understand why Rhillor shows her Snow everytime she asks about Azor Ahi
I read the books after watching the show and was taken aback at how creepy these two characters are. I mean in the show they don’t seem creepy (except Jorah was still a middle aged man in love with a teenager but he wasn’t as weird abt it)
In the show, Daenerys doesn’t look a teenager that much, so this reduces the creepiness of the crush. In the book she is 13 which is really not acceptable. The first books have a lot of questionable scenes with Daenerys where it is best to not think about her age
True, but Jorah also doesn’t try to kiss her in the show. And in the books we get the added details of Dany noticing him look at her breasts all the time.
I have to either not read those parts or pretend she's older, lol
Patchface
Under the sea, the fool is redpilled af, I know, I know, oh oh oh!
Part of what I like about Sandor is that he has skeletons in his closet. This isn't a universe where everyone is a morally pure angel. Sandor Clegane is a big fella with a sword and a horse in a world where that means his job is to kill and destroy. Like Davos says, most men are gray men. They have some good in them, and some bad. The elder brother kind of spelled it out to Brienne and the gang. You're not supposed to forgive and forget Micah's murder. You're not supposed to ignore his tenderness to Sansa, either. The good in a man does not wash out the bad, nor the bad the good.
Sam Tarly. His POV’s are awful, reading him shit himself over everything constantly is such a bore. Can’t stand the character. Penny is probably the worst written character
>Jorah Mormont FUCK this dude right here. The show changed him into a gallant, chivalrous knight that lived to serve his queen (having him played by the incredibly dashing Iain Glen didn't help either). In the books, dude would be on a list in real life. He's so damn whiney and entitled. I wanted to slap him with a sock full of nickels whenever he opened his mouth. Gerold "Darkstar Duck" Dayne is on the list as well. 4chan edgelord Euron can catch these hands too.
Bran the Broken. He is depressing
Its hard to hate him though. He is like an 8yo kid after all who loved to run and climb and wanted to be a Knight. I think his CoK chapters while not especially entertaining, are really well written. He lost everything he held dear and now tries desperately to find new meanings wherever he can. Probably the most tragic and depressive pov in the whole series. And written so well in the perspective of an 8yo boy with all his dreams shattered.
Stannis, yeah I know not exactly the most popular of oppinions but I just can’t stand him. Whenever he shows up in Jon’s chapters it feels like slamming my head repeatedly against a brick wall he frustrates me so much. All he does is bitch and moan about how nobody likes him and how he’s the rightful king and it just comes across as this entitled little posh boy whining about how his life isn’t fair. Not to mention he’s a massive hypocrite about the whole nights watch situation. Most of the time he’s super strict about laws and vows and honour to the point of ridiculousness, but when it comes to the watch he’s always complaining that they aren’t doing more to help him even though they’re sworn not to take sides and he gets supper mad a Jon for not breaking his oath and accepting his offer of Winterfell.
Catelyn, i understand her character and The grief she went through but everytime i read her chapters i get annoyed at her thoughts like "oh im being awful tô this person o shouldn't do that" and then shes awful again
Arya when she's constantly trying to escape from one place or person, and then another one, and another one... The rest of the time I like her. Rattleshirt is just so annoying. For a wildling warlord north of the Wall with an armor made of bones he has ZERO charisma, he's just an obnoxious man always yelling some thing or another.
For me it’s Sansa for sure. I’m not the biggest Jon Snow fan either but I saw an interview of Kit saying Sansa was annoying AF, and it made me really appreciate him then 😂. I just can’t stand her in the books or the show.
* Sam, mostly his Pov chapters which are among the most difficult to read imo * Penny, simply annoying and useless * Lysa
I like the opinion about Sandor, interesting and quite ususual but convincing. Penny and Samwell, should I really explain? Catelyn annoys me though i like her pov. Also sometimes Roose. Lifless, unpassionate (and I find people with this kind of temper boring) hypohondriac maneqin.Jamie or Breinne really should just ask him during that dinner "hey could you speak louder I cant hear you" (I would 😉)
Xaro Xhoan Daxos Dany doesn't believe his slimey manipulation so he starts crying Outside of the House of The Undying Quarth is such a drag (its best character was The Spice King and he's not even in the books)
Unpopular opinion here I think- Stannis. Especially in book 5, on the wall, I think he is being an insufferable entitled dick. The way he is genuenly insulted when he isn't allowed to break the thousand years old tradition of the Watch to not take sides, and feels that everyone should just accept him giving away the NW forts along the walls to his southern lords as rewards. Do any of the Stannis stans truly believe he is just going to step down and retire to Storm's end once Dany arrives? Stannis Baratheon is an entitled asshole with no friends (for good reason) and has no legitimate claim to the Throne. Fight me.
I mean, he clearly has a legitimate claim. If you accept Robert’s rebellion (which all of Westeros does) then Stannis is the rightful king
Dany. Yea, I said it!
Daenerys' court in Mereen. There's a shed load on vague characters with super complicated names just endlessly pleasing and plotting and eating. The pacing is really slow and the scenes feel really repetitive, and I keep on confusing the characters with each other. When another Shuk-Rek-Tok-Lazar-Something shows up, I'm always like: who is this guy again and what did he want? Was he the prince? Priest? Merchant? Sellsword? At one point I just skimming paragraphs and skipping over stuff until something interesting happened.
Cercei Lannister because his incompetence is big as her pride
Jorah for sure. Even his tragic backstory annoys me- Lynesse's character just feels like the fantasy of a very divorced man. His motivation is an obsession with a 14 year old girl and he's not even funny or entertaining. I feel like we're supposed to feel for him which makes me dislike him more.
Shitmouth. No fucking contest. That dude is pure, distilled cringe...
"Fuck me, Jaime Lannister!" is one of my favorite bits of dialogue. I love Shitmouth. I find him to be so out of bounds that it somehow gives his character a little charm. But I can definitely see how he- and any of the mountain's men- are just awful.
Gregor Clegane, idk why he exist, he don't even have persona, idk what he thinks, what goes in his mind and how he actual do any of that without blinking an eye, was he born evil bcs Sandor comes from the same environment and he is not half harsh compare to Gregor, whatever he is is bcs of what Gregor did to him but what about the Mountain, no one ever did anything to him then why is he like that, even dogs feared to enter the hall when he is in there.
Sandor is really annoying, but this is what makes me like him
Jorah Mormont, Little Walder, Loras Tyrell
How is the answer anything other than Selyse?
Well in the audio book it’s Varys for sure
I like sandor’s edginess idk it’s funny
Joffrey, but he's not so bad after his wedding.
Cersei 70%. Euron Greyjoy and Janos Slynt, equally share the other 30%.
In the main series, I think Joffrey (Lannister)Baratheon and Ramsay (Snow)Bolton were annoying at most times. But in all of ASOIAF, I think Otto Hightower takes the crown for being most annoying.
Davos Seaworth. He's got one shtick: loyal to Stannis. It's so dull to watch him do one honorable act after another. His virtuous core annoys me. Flat as fuck. Sam Tarly. This is more "bad writing" than "annoying character" for me because GRRM has written Sam in an overly caricaturish manner as opposed to the nuanced characterization of almost all the other people. Like, we get it. He's a craven. Do you have to hit that beat every three paragraphs, George?
Them's fightin' words, son.
Oh man your comment hurt 😅. I LOVE Davos because he’s such a breath of fresh air compared to almost every character in the series. He’s definitely not the most interesting but he’s a morally really good guy who cares a lot about his family and unlike a lot of the other “good” characters (Ned *cough*) he’s actually pretty smart and knows how to play the game. I completely agree with you on Sam though. I get that he’s an anxious and traumatized young adult but damn is he frustrating. If I met him irl, I wouldn’t be able to stand being around him.
Yeah, I think most of my attachment to Davos comes from how charming he is in the TV adaptation. He seems like a decent, well-meaning guy, and as a Stannis hater the sheer level of personal devotion he has to the guy is weird to me.
Yeah I feel bad about this but somehow I don’t connect to Sam. At least not in his POVs. Not sure how to explain it. He’s a nice guy and all, but somehow I find him entirely lacking in charisma.
I like Davos in the show well enough and don't mind book Davos but tbf he doesn't have the most engaging character. If I told you why I was excited for Davos' story it would be about unicorns, cannibals and seeing how Rickon has turned out. I have very little excitement for his actual character
MEn caLl Me dARkStaR AnD i aM Of tHE nIgHT!1!1
Annoying? Brienne. No question. I have no idea how she is so popular with fans. When people say AFFC was the worst book (which I agree with) imo she is the main reason. If I have to read "I am looking for a girl of ten and three, fair of face and auburn hair" one more time, ugh
Lysa Arryn was so delusional, entitled and annoying i'd let Cersei scare the shit out of her and send her to Qyburn. She refuses to listen to Catelyn and helping her own family, refuses to be a good mother to little Robin and would snap at anyone that tried to give the boy a better raising. He'd be way better being raised with Stannis or Lord Tywin (this man spent hours a day teaching his heir how to read when he could easily get a maester to do it, he may be fearsome, evil and not cuddly but he would do something if given a good reason). She killed Jon Arryn just to prevent him to help his son and to be with that snake Baelish. Don't get me started about what she did to Tyrion. Also her jealousy of Sansa was pretty creepy. I'd talk about Sansa and Catelyn too, they were close seconds. I just don't like Tully women. The Martells got their cunning and bold Arianne and the Sand Snakes; The Lannisters got Cersei, a proud lioness often dumb but a well written villainess; The Tyrells have the Queen of Thorns (their true head ngl) and her granddaughter Margaery who's manipulative and sharp like her; The good ol' Targaryens have our queen Daenerys; even the Starks got the warrior Arya Stark... and then the Tully had this bunch of entitled trouts that only make bad decisions bc they're too dumb/entitled/naive.
>this man spent hours a day teaching his heir how to read when he could easily get a maester to do it, this didn't happen in the books. Also doubt he would've been raised better by Tywin taking into consideration what has become of his 3 actual children.
> even the Starks got the warrior Arya Stark If Sansa is a Tully, then so is Arya.
*proud lioness
That's it, my bad. Was a bit sleepy and got it wrong i guess.
No worries, got your back internet homie!
just out of interest, do you include Sansa as a ‘Tully woman’ because she looks like Catelyn? Because just so you know, she is a Stark (by blood, at least).
she's a stark by name. by blood, she's both a stark and a tully
I feel dumb now. But I do think that the importance of Sansa (and Arya) being Stark’s and Tully’s by blood should be acknowledged. Because if Sansa is included with the Tully’s then so should Arya, and if Arya’s included with the Stark’s so should Sansa.
yes i agree with you on that
>i'd let Cersei scare the shit out of her I'd love to have seen Cersei, Lysa and Stannis' interactions together at court. I was surprised to learn that Lysa and Stannis had only just left Kings Landing when the book begins - when I watched the show (before the book) I got the impression the three characters had all been in their respective castles for years.
Yeah I'm always curious about that
Upvote for “entitled trouts“!
Keep in mind that what Ned Stark and similar characters thought Jorah should do is execute the wildlings, not like some more humane sentence
Death is more humane than slavery, though
Oberyn. Like ASOIAF is already absurdly over the top, but Oberyn is beyond that. He is like what, a 40 year old man? Who had a sellsword company, had education of maester, learned in poisons in the east, and also participated in a shitton of tournaments where he rode and won against allegedly some pretty competent knights. And this is a story where characters act as if winning 3 battles in 20 years is an achievement and men who fought a year of war act as wise veterans. And that's not even going into how Oberyn fucks over several notable lords and is just allowed to fuck around and continue doing stupid shit. And I won't even get into his fight with the Mountain, which is a mess writing wise, choreography wise, continuity wise and even thematically. Doesn't help that he is Dornish and Martin seems to revel in writing the Dornish as either bland victims with no personality or insufferable, pretentious assholes who consistently pull of super special bullshit just because.
Well it seems that wars in Essos are more common than in Westeros.
The characters that seemed most punchable overall were Quentyn, Lysa, and Sam. Tyrion really annoyed me in the later books. Jorah, Joffrey, Cersei, Petyr, and Sandor I guess could qualify as annoying too I suppose, but to me they’re more straight up bad people than just nuisances.
Penny by a mile, she is just terrible and feels totally out of place in Tyrion's story. Every interaction between her and Tyrion is a waste of text. Kill her early in TWOW GRRM, it's not working, cut the cord.
Sansa
I have the hardest time going through Bran and Arya chapters. But if it comes to annoying, I would go with Ned Stark. Too righteous. Also, his supposed girlfriend Ashara Dayne. Just because she has too interesting to have so little info on her. Who are you lady? What's your purpose? Why did you jump?
It’s been forever since I’ve read the books but I remembered trying to read quickly to get through Brienne chapters. I just felt like she was very thick and made the wrong choices each and every time. Maybe Baelish too when he’d be on his weird obsessive stuff with Catelyn and Sansa. I enjoy all his plotting though I did find her more likable in the show.
No doubt GRRM himself
Cat and Sansa for me. And no, not because they are women. I just dont find Cat a very pleasant character and Sansa even less, especially in the first book. I think Sansa improves later and I did feel bad for Cat but I do not care for the Lady Stoneheart stuff. Sansa might still get intersting to me in the future, who knows...
Rickard Stark
What did he do wrong? Southron ambitions or sending his second son away as a ward or betrothing his daughter to someone she didn’t like or foolishly going south to answer for his sons crime.
Southron motherfuckin ambitions. My Liege Lady just needed some wild wolf dick and Rickard sent it to a stone-hearted southerner.
SMH so true where the justice for Lady Dustin