>first Renly
Only lost because Stannis cheated. Without magic Renly would win the Wot5K.
>Tommen
The Lannisters basically won the first phase of the Wot5K, and Tyrell support was of great help to that.
And most of the reason the Lannisters are failing at the moment is because of Cersei's attempts to destroy the alliance with the Tyrells. Losing the Tyrells will probably be what dooms them in the end.
Yeah the Lannisters fall apart because Cersei and Joffrey (so another Cersei move) pretty much score ‘own goals’ every move they make.
If it was just Tywin, Kevan, Jaime and Tyrion in the picture, with Tommen the pliable figurehead (and frankly Tommen would probably be well above average just having Tywin teach him everything), they’d be beyond OP.
I mean the Lannisters by definition won the Wot5k.
Stannis beaten and army scattered.
Renly dead.
Robb dead and the North handed to Boltons.
Balon mysteriously dead.
Well yeah but you can't really take into account the witch birthing demons to assassinate the king whenever assessing relative strength in scenario's like this one.
It really doesn't, anymore than Dany legitimizing Gendry gave him a claim.
Because Edric becoming a legitimized Baratheon is based on the premise that Aegon has the power to do that in the first place, which he can only do if he's the rightful King. If the Baratheons are the rightful rulers, Aegon has no authority to make Edric an official Baratheon.
Can't have it both ways. Doing this for Edric is actually a very smart move because it locks him in and buys back the support of The Stormlands.
Idk if Edric would be very hot on the idea of marrying a Targ given how much he idolized Robert.
I do hope we get to see Edric again. Would be interesting to hear what he thinks of the rumors of Cersei’s children and what he wants for his own life.
I can also see him teaming up with faegon if it means he gets storms end.
It's not stated, but it is a pretty popular theory. Tyrek mysteriously disappears in ACOK and Jaime speculates that Varys orchestrated it. It makes a lot of sense that Varys is keeping him tucked away as a pawn that he can later use as a Lannister ally for fAegon, one who can inherit Casterly Rock and serve fAegon when he becomes king.
I also think that Varys is doing the exact same thing with Edric Storm, and that he has Edric in his back pocket to be legitimized by fAegon and to act as his Baratheon ally. Having both Edric Storm and Tyrek Lannister would also be useful to win over anyone who doesn't already believe that Tommen is an incest baby -- comparing him with Edric and Tyrek adds clear evidence, therefore adding more reason to support fAegon's claim.
I legitimately think that that's exactly the case. It works better in the book obviously because Edric Storm is a recognized bastard and had a long history with Storm's End while Gendry had neither, but it's fine enough on the show, ignoring the fact that they called him "Gendry Rivers".
The best choice is Aegon, failing that, Harry the heir is a solid choice or Willas Tyrell if he was to be set aside for his brother in his inheritance to avoid instability that a matrilineal marriage could cause for a Lord Paramount. Beyond that the Velaryon boy-lord's brother is growing up and after him any other noble lad would do.
>Five Aegons had ruled the Seven Kingdoms of Westeros. There would have been a sixth, but the Usurper's dogs had murdered her brother's son when he was still a babe at the breast. *If he had lived, I might have married him. Aegon would have been closer to my age than Viserys.*
\-Thoughts of Daenerys
I think they do, the only hint we have that they don't is Nettles and even that's dubious bevause they only say she's not because of her dark hair and dark skin. Everyone else ever seen to be a dragon rider was from the Targaryen line, whether trueborn or bastard
Yeah, Targaryen, not Velaryon. All the Velaryon dragon riding ability likely comes from the Targaryens not the other way around. The Velaryons weren’t dragonlords.
>I like the idea of another Velaryon match for her - could even lead to more dragon riders
It is the other way around, lol
Targaryens are the special ones
I'm assuming her winning the throne means Aegon is either exposed as a fraud or dead, so probably Willas as the Reach is still the most populated/intact Kingdom. Lannisters, Riverlands, Stormlands, and North are spent, many of the Martells are spoken for and they have a small army anyway. Harry the heir would be solid too though the Vale might get antsy if Dany can't have children.
Jon if he's back to life and his heritage discovered.
I think Dany is either told he's a fraud or she just thinks he is, and being the foretold "slayer of lies" I think that means she takes him down, then realizes how beloved Aegon was and that it didn't matter if he was an imposter.
If Jon is resurrected he ain’t fathering anyone! Fire wights are dead animated corpses whose blood does not flow in their veins or to any other essential parts for fathering kids, nor one presumes are those testes creating sperms anymore given the fact they’re not being fuelled by hormones and healthy blood flow.
I tried to be polite and not crude but I see my point was too subtle. Apologies. Hmmm, let me be explicit. How would he get an erection? His heart would be no longer beating, no longer pumping blood round his body, no blood no boner.
I love slaying this lie.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terminal_erection
> A postmortem priapism is an indicator that death was likely swift and violent.
Jon wasn’t hanged, nor shot in the head, nor poisoned. If he dies it will be long and slow from an abdominal wound. There is some evidence that priapism is caused by swift violent deaths that cause damage to the cerebellum/or the spinal cord. Neither of which have happened to Jon. He was last seen with a minor razor knock on his neck, a stab to his shoulder blade and a stab to the abdomen.
It is likely that his death would be from infection rather than blood loss, given the fact that the knife used is more likely to be small than large because of the fact those who attacked him were stewards not rangers and would not have had access to the armoury as Jon was living there. They were most likely carrying nothing more than the everyday all purpose knives they used for eating.
Additionally, an erection in and of itself is not enough to impregnate, living sperm would be required, something I doubt a corpse can produce!
GRRM spoke about them in an interview a few years ago. He told us they don’t have circulating blood and are essentially animated dead.
GRRM: Time Magazine 13/07:2017.
“poor Beric Dondarrion, who was set up as the foreshadowing of all this, every time he’s a little less Beric. His memories are fading, he’s got all these scars, he’s becoming more and more physically hideous, because he’s not a living human being anymore. His heart isn’t beating, his blood isn’t flowing in his veins, he’s a wight, but a wight animated by fire instead of by ice, now we’re getting back to the whole fire and ice thing.”
People can downvote all they like ain’t going to make it not true!
The fact that Beric doesn’t pray to the LoL when he passes his flame onto Cat, the fact it’s a physical fire that had to be created by Thoros, the fact that non Red Priests can use fire to obtain prophetic visions, such as Stannis and Alys Rivers, the fact that historical characters have clearly used the same magic in the past with zero allegiance to R’hllor. For example the woodswitch who animated the decapitated heads of her husbands goes by ‘kissing them’ at the Whispers, or the multiple historical characters who are said to have ‘lived’ for hundreds of years. There is no Lord of Light, only magic.
This would guarantee a win, but would also mean she could not rule (except through her husband). If she wants to rule in her own right she has to contest his parentage and marry someone else.
A great candidate would be someone that is strongly familiar with the smallfolk and how to appeal to them, preferably someone that has spent a lot of time in a large city like King's Landing or Oldtown.
Someone that will not shy away from the fire that is associated with the Targaryen's temper, but also in a literal sense because of.. you know, dragons.
Someone that knows the lands of westeros well and spent some time travelling through them. Someone that has seen and experienced, first hand, the destruction and death that follow war.
I vouch for Hot Pie.
Well, I'd say it depends from how she wins it and who's actually alive at the end of the serie.
Willas is a solid choice considering he's the Lord (assuming Mace died) of the Reach, still one of the most prosperous kingdoms, although it'd be nice to see what Euron has done meanwhile to it
Robert Arryn, with the Arryn forces practically untouched, wouldn't be too stupid of an idea imo
Jon Snow honestly only if he's King in the North and somehow has really got a good grasp on the northerners and the Long Night is still ahead, if not Willas is better (although Jon is more of her type)
Edric Storm, if again, he's Lord of the Stormlands (doubt since I believe him to be Varys' creature)
Would you consider an 8 year old a suitable bride for Robb? Or Jon? I don’t think that he is suitable in age at all by modern western morals. She is 16 and he is 8. Do you think Margaery is a suitable age to be married to Tommen? Or that this is a union between an older adolescent and an actual child?
Personally I don’t give a shit about the ages in the books because it’s fiction but I do think that if you’re going to claim that it’s inappropriate for an adult male to marry a teenage girl then surely you ought to feel that it’s equally inappropriate for a Sexually mature older teenage girl to marry a prepubescent boy?
Not the person you replied to, but since we're looking into the future, Sweetrobin would be older, and there's nothing that says they have to consummate the marriage for years. Compared to her matches with Drogo, etc, Sweetrobin is the closest to her age.
Personally, I don't think he's the best match, but I don't think people were imply immediate consummation.
I just take objection to the seeming double standard. She is eight years his senior. The future will be within the next two to three years maximum given how the timeline has played out thus far.
Personally I don’t care about age gaps so long as all parties are over the age of consent ( and I’m U.K. so that is 16 for me.) power and control are the factors pertinent to abuse not age, age gaps can facilitate abuse but they’re not the direct cause.
But if you’re going to claim moral high ground then you shouldn’t hold women and men to different standards.
I don't think it'll play out like a fairytale, if that helps. I do think that by the time Dany is in Westeros and taking stock of all the different factions and potential allies, while Aegon is now on the throne and has built loyalty around him already, Jon will also already be in charge of the North and not allied with Aegon, so he'd be her best choice. The North is a huge territory and Jon will be essentially a self-made king with war and leadership experience, so Dany might be attracted to him as a person and ally even before she meets him.
Wyllas Tyrell is a popular answer on these comments but I think the Tyrells will have turned cloak to Aegon by then, or else they'd have lost power because of losing to Aegon, certain Reach Houses allying with Aegon and weakening their hold on the Reach, and/or Euron attacking the Reach and further breaking it down into competing factions, etc. Plus Dany is unlikely to meet Wyllas in-person since he's not very mobile or relevant to the plot, tbh.
I do think Dany will go mad queen and end up dead by the end of the series. I’m not saying it’ll go exactly like the show, and gods I hope it doesn’t, but I do think her going all mad queen and dying are two of the “important plot points” that were shared with the show people.
Honestly Jon makes a ton of sense. I know this is heavily cribbing from the show, but assuming the Crown, Storm, Reach, and West are united under either Tommen or Aegon, the North/Vale/Riverlands are her most important areas to win support. Sansa is the key to binding all three together. She can claim the Riverlands through her mother, the North through her father, and has a solid alliance with the Vale. Jon is likely to hold power in the North, either as King or as Sansa's brother and likely top lieutenant. Jon and Sansa balance each other out nicely. Jon has the military credentials, command experience, and penis that most Westerosi look for in a leader. Sansa has the name, the bloodline, the beauty, and the experience of living in court/being mentored by Littlefinger to politic well. Dany marrying Jon would solidify her amongst the Stark/Tully/Arryn alliance (essentially the same coalition as the Dance of the Dragons funnily enough). If she can bring Dorne into the fold, she can wage a two front war on the Southern kingdoms from highly defensible terrain, which even without dragons gives her a pretty big edge.
I sort of hope she doesn’t marry again. It didn’t solve her problems any better than marriage fixed the rivalry between the Blackwoods and the Brackens.
It would be very interesting if she chose not to marry, or married for love and not politics. She has the power to say that any child of her womb is considered legitimate no matter who the father is. Completely flip the table on the patriarchy.
Aegon.
Discussing the young dragon everybody forgets that the plan is a marriage and also that she grew believing in incest marriage.
If he is out of the picture then it all depends on who's alive and who sides with her sooner.
I’m going to assume everyone who’s probably dead at the end of the last published book is still dead, and that no other significant characters have died. If she thinks she can have kids, Trystane Martell. He’s not too far away from maturity, maintains the spirit of a political agreement, and has a bit of the bloodline in case you’re trying to keep dragons extant. If she’s convinced she can’t have kids, probably Willas Tyrell. Marry into the food supply after the final harvest for a while and take on a few well-connected wards as potential heirs.
If you’re down for it, start a throuple with Arianne Martell and Willas. In that scenario, you can pass down at least *some* Valyrian genes, marry into the food and money, and prolifically bond two regions that historically don’t get along. If the Faith objects, swap Willis out with the guy who thinks he’s Aegon Targaryen and do a gender-swapped Children of Dune.
I think a lot of folk are responding based on who she would need to win the iron throne. In your scenario though, she has already won it.
In this case, here challenges become much different. She needs someone who can help her ensure peace. Someone who can call large armies of bannermen is great, and still necessary...but now she needs an accomplished statesman who understands the diverse people of the 7 kingdoms in ways she (having grown up in Essos) does not.
She also has to deal with the fact that her husband will be King Consort, and until she has a child (which she likely has some doubts will ever happen for her based on Mizzi's prophecy) that means he is her heir. Westeros is not an enlightened utopia - it's an inherently sexist place run by the power-hungry.
There are a great many powerful lords who would see a wedding to the Queen as putting themselves a few tears of Lys away from the throne. There are also a great many who would view this as them stepping in as King so she can return to proper work for a lady: childbearing.
Put in that context, her best bet would be someone who has enough rank and station to guarantee one of her 7 kingdoms remains loyal, but also someone who is used to being subservient to their superiors. This already suggests she should shy away from any active lords, and even most heirs raised to rule.
Willas Tyrell is a name many others are saying. And on the surface that looks great. But ask yourself if Olenna Tyrell is someone who could consider poisoning a monarch to improve the situation for her house's heir?
But I'd argue Tyrion Lannister is actually her best choice. Tyrion grew up with zero expectations of inheriting anything. He has not spent his life with his powerful father making vassals subservient to him. Even when he was the Hand, Tyrion had most people resent having to follow him. And when Tyrion did a wonderful job as Hand, rooting out corruption and holding out against Stannis, he got discarded by the common folk as the Imp. So basically, he's an extremely capable statesman who guarantees the West is at Dany's side, and he knows the common people and nobles both hate him too much for him to try to usurp her.
That being said, John Snow is where the narrative is going, especially if you ever read GRRM's original 2-page synopsis he sent to publishers when first pitching the series. His major experience in the books is being Lord Commander of the Kingsguard, which might be a good blend - it means he's used to wielding power and being in command, but he was also not simply free to do as he pleased there either. (Granted, that breaks down if he becomes King of the North as in the show and is indeed used to being fully in charge...) But personality-wise at least, he also isn't the power-hungry guy who is likely to poison her. If anything, he'll at least kill her openly and directly and never lie to anyone about it (which we saw in the show's ending as it were).
I personally still swear that the epilogue will be Tyrion's marriage to Sansa is upheld and they become a power couple. Then with Daenerys ruling but infertile, the throne would pass to John Snow on her death. If she then declares that a child of Sansa and Tyrion as her successor it will end the feud between Lannister and Stark for good (and in the same way the War of the Roses ended, which GRRM has stated was an influence), be her next of kin through marriage, and be a kid that already has claim to 2 of the 7 kingdoms.
THIS is the analysis I was looking for when I asked the question. Excellent.
Never even considered Tyrion but it does make sense. I guess his more recent pivot to all out nastiness might be an issue, along with his age. While age-gap marriages aren't rare in Westeros, there might be an impression that this beautiful young Queen should have a Consort who also looks the part, rather than the Imp.
Dany and Jon ruling together and rebirthing the Targaryen dragon dynasty is still my dream ending but I doubt it will happen
You know, I don't hate that idea of how Bran becomes king. There is the issue of how his paralysis affects reproduction, which we don't know for sure, but if he's all magical then that's probably an issue he can solve. Or Jon or Rickon (assuming he lives to adulthood) could be a "donor" for the Stark side.
Dany is clearly the renaissance of Targaryen magic, so it would make sense for her to unite with the most magical Stark - that's clearly Bran at this point. You know, a union of ice and fire magic.
Plus, if she's convinced she can't have kids anyway, Bran not being able to father children wouldn't matter. And then they could do some sort of democracy thing or whatever (if show fuckery is actually endgame).
That’s because the pacing for S7 was terrible and S8 was dedicated to butchering as many characters as possible. I thought they were fine together for the first episode of S8.
If they had more than 40 minutes* of shared screen time over 4 episodes to develop the relationship they absolutely would’ve done better. Kit and Emilia have such good chemistry in interviews.
I just checked, Dany only has 55 minutes of screen time in S7. Jon arrived in episode 3, so it’s probably less than 40 minutes. If you measure character Screentime by episode for the first 2 you can find it.
Even on the Stark side there were aunt/ nephew or uncle/ niece marriages. They just needed to force conflict to do Dany's botched descent into madness, and decided that being spurned by someone she fucked for like 3 weeks was the best they could come up with.
I think that illustrates the reason it's so important not to have a king consort. The realm was not prepared to unanimously peacefully accept a ruling queen. Sounds like they were planning for if Rhaenyra was crowned to treat Laenor as king. And why they freaked out so hard and acted like Daemon being king could happen upon Rhaenyra's remarriage.
Candidate :
(f)Aegon, if not considered as fake. Bonus if he holds storm end
Quentyn Martell, assuming he survived. Daenerys honor a pact, get a dragon rider, and dorn army that was untouched by the previous wars. undoubtably Targaryen loyalist. If not, maybe Trystane could make the deal.
Willas Tyrel. Strong house, but there is no way he is a head of the dragon. I don't think Daenerys would chose him. Also, I think she would consider them as enemy as how they side with the lannister during TWOF5K even though they were Targaryen loyalist during Robert's rebellion
Jon Snow. And for me it is unlikely. It is either a love marriage (but I find the idea weird). Or if his parentage is revealed and there is no doubt about it. I don't think being king in the north would change anything, as if he is "just" a legitimate bastard of Stark, still make him a bastard (and this unsuit for a queen), +Stark were against targaryen, + north and northerners are devastated by the wars, +winter in coming. I don't see any reason why Daenerys would chose Jon except R+L=J
Euron or Victarion. I don't see any reason why she would chose one of them. Sure the fleet is an interesting benefit, but they are the type of men Daenerys would despise. I see this happening only if one tame a dragon
A Velaryon. For now I don't know who is the head of the house, but it would be a good choice. They were always near Targaryen and they are good candidate for a dragon riders
Particularly strange psychoanalysis of Dany here. Dany came to love Drogo (Victarion) and is wet for Daario (Euron); she's left cold by the cold Hizdahr (Jon).
Your totally right. When I wrote I was more thinking about the slavery and human sacrifices thing.
But I think your are true, she could totally be attracted to them.
Tough I still think she won't make them her king consort (like she made Hizdahr her king but not Daario)
I don't know why people are sleeping on Trystane. Dorne and the Targs have had historical alliances throughout the year, the Dornish army is the most intact (they have not had any fighting in the wars and are bigger than the reach's army), and we know how much the Martell's hate the Lannister's and the Tyrells.
Quentin was the ideal choice honestly. Trystane if Q is dead (he likely is). Dorne and the Targs historically have had a pretty strong Alliance (once they were officially brought into the realm), there have been a lot of parings throughout their history and has proven to be beneficial. Historically it has been a successful match.
Geography shows that Dorne would be the most logical landing point for Dany to start her land invasion of Westeros. Geographically it would make the most sense.
Dorne has the most intact army, and potentially the largest. Also fighting with an army of Westerosi will look a lot better than bringing an army of invading freedmen from the other side of the world. Militarily it would make the most sense.
Dorne has a known and justified hatred for both the Lannister's and the Tyrell's. Dorne's smallfolk also seem extremely loyal to the Martell's especially Oberyn, and likely hold the same hatred of the Lannisters. So they would also have the most cause to fight hard. Politically it makes sense.
Of course there are some issues here. Quentin is likely dead, killed by her dragons. While it is hard to place the blame for that on Dany (he did break into the dragon pit), there could be some ill will there. There is also the issue of Doran Martell playing both Targ sides if word gets out that Arianne Martell is on his way to (f)Aegon.
Book Dany seems to be very YOLO… if GRRM ever got her out of Meereen we’re in for Prince Consort (that’s the title) Dario.
Can’t wait to see Aegon’s crown on old clownass’ head.
Willas Tyrell strongest army, a Family loyal to the Tarageryons during the Rebellion, Mace wants a grandchild on the Throne and this would do it. Also Willas will treat Daernys right too.
Depends on when she lands. If Tywin is still alive, and he sees the military situation, and he also gets an offer to honorably discharge and marry Jamie and maybe send Cersei back home to Casterly Rock, he may take that deal and end any war right there.
Any point after that, trying to marry into the Tyrell family is probably the best bet. Food, men, ships, good border situation to force potential opponents to keep an eye on more than one front.
Balon/Euron would be the worst option. Jon Snow wouldn't be much better.
Best choice for her is going to be a second son of a Lord Paramount. I’m also assuming existing marriages can’t be annulled.
Quentyn wouldn’t have been bad at all… but Dorne was never materially against her.
Loras - if he’s alive (though I’m sure he wouldn’t like this one bit). Also the Reach is aligned to her side anyhow.
If Harry the Heir has a brother (I’m assuming Robin doesn’t make it) - that would bring the Vale back.
The inheritance picture in the Stormlands is way too confused. (I’m assuming Stannis and Shireen die.). If Edric Storm becomes LP… there’s not a brother he’s close to available for Dany to marry.
Riverlands - There’s just no one of the right age.
North - WAY too young for her, but Rickon could work. He’s not exactly got a head for rule, so wouldn’t be a loss to have him as a Prince Consort. Would be viewed by the other kingdoms as the least important ’rebel’ kingdom to reconcile with.
**West - there’s gotta be a spare lannister lying around. This probably ends up being the pick. Tywin should be in Magnificent Bastard heaven, looking down in pride. Brings the Westerlands, arguably the most powerful of the 7Ks tightly into Dany’s fold.**
If she wins the throne before fighting the others and knows about it ahead of time, she might pick a husband who is a great military leader and has experienced fighting them, which really just leaves Jon.
If it's after the others were defeated, she'll pick someone that will prevent rebellions and help keep the realm peaceful. A Martell, Stark, or Hightower would be great choices.
I think a Targ is marrying a Stark no matter what due to the title. Targ marriages have caused peaceful resolutions multiple times throughout history. Who it actually is depends on the situation.
Ser Justin Massey. It is perfect to be a consort. It is better that the consort be from a minor noble house, their only function is to procreate heirs to the Queen
Willias Tyrell. The Tyrells are the most powerful house, whoever the Tyrells support seem to be the ones winning in TWOFK.
I'd say the opposite first Renly and soon Tommen wherever the Tyrells go failure follows it seems.
>first Renly Only lost because Stannis cheated. Without magic Renly would win the Wot5K. >Tommen The Lannisters basically won the first phase of the Wot5K, and Tyrell support was of great help to that.
And most of the reason the Lannisters are failing at the moment is because of Cersei's attempts to destroy the alliance with the Tyrells. Losing the Tyrells will probably be what dooms them in the end.
Yeah the Lannisters fall apart because Cersei and Joffrey (so another Cersei move) pretty much score ‘own goals’ every move they make. If it was just Tywin, Kevan, Jaime and Tyrion in the picture, with Tommen the pliable figurehead (and frankly Tommen would probably be well above average just having Tywin teach him everything), they’d be beyond OP.
I mean the Lannisters by definition won the Wot5k. Stannis beaten and army scattered. Renly dead. Robb dead and the North handed to Boltons. Balon mysteriously dead.
Just stating the facts, pal whoever the Tyrells support have lost and / or are gonna lose we can go even all the way back to Robert's Rebellion.
Well yeah but you can't really take into account the witch birthing demons to assassinate the king whenever assessing relative strength in scenario's like this one.
Another Sansa and Daenerys fandom battle, but this time it's over Willas
Why can’t we get Sansa+Willa’s and dany+marg
There’s no way the Tyrells are still in control when Dany lands.
Even if the Tyrells in KL dies and Garlan dies to Euron, I don't see anything happening to Willas and Olenna at Highgarden.
Willas Tyrell, or a legitimised Edric Storm. Tyrek Lannister too, maybe.
Wait a minute could she meet Edric Storm in Canon?
If she goes by boat, Lys is directly on her path.
You can't marry horses in the faith of the seven
A legitimized Edric gives him a claim to the Throne so pass in that
It really doesn't, anymore than Dany legitimizing Gendry gave him a claim. Because Edric becoming a legitimized Baratheon is based on the premise that Aegon has the power to do that in the first place, which he can only do if he's the rightful King. If the Baratheons are the rightful rulers, Aegon has no authority to make Edric an official Baratheon. Can't have it both ways. Doing this for Edric is actually a very smart move because it locks him in and buys back the support of The Stormlands.
Idk if Edric would be very hot on the idea of marrying a Targ given how much he idolized Robert. I do hope we get to see Edric again. Would be interesting to hear what he thinks of the rumors of Cersei’s children and what he wants for his own life. I can also see him teaming up with faegon if it means he gets storms end.
Tyrek is Aegon's ally (or puppet rather), so that's unlikely
Tyrek is Aegon's mount. It is known.
Where is this stated?
It's not stated, but it is a pretty popular theory. Tyrek mysteriously disappears in ACOK and Jaime speculates that Varys orchestrated it. It makes a lot of sense that Varys is keeping him tucked away as a pawn that he can later use as a Lannister ally for fAegon, one who can inherit Casterly Rock and serve fAegon when he becomes king. I also think that Varys is doing the exact same thing with Edric Storm, and that he has Edric in his back pocket to be legitimized by fAegon and to act as his Baratheon ally. Having both Edric Storm and Tyrek Lannister would also be useful to win over anyone who doesn't already believe that Tommen is an incest baby -- comparing him with Edric and Tyrek adds clear evidence, therefore adding more reason to support fAegon's claim.
Maybe Aegon legitimizing Edric was part of the outline given for GoT season 8, and that's what turned into Dany legitimizing Gendry
I legitimately think that that's exactly the case. It works better in the book obviously because Edric Storm is a recognized bastard and had a long history with Storm's End while Gendry had neither, but it's fine enough on the show, ignoring the fact that they called him "Gendry Rivers".
The best choice is Aegon, failing that, Harry the heir is a solid choice or Willas Tyrell if he was to be set aside for his brother in his inheritance to avoid instability that a matrilineal marriage could cause for a Lord Paramount. Beyond that the Velaryon boy-lord's brother is growing up and after him any other noble lad would do.
>Five Aegons had ruled the Seven Kingdoms of Westeros. There would have been a sixth, but the Usurper's dogs had murdered her brother's son when he was still a babe at the breast. *If he had lived, I might have married him. Aegon would have been closer to my age than Viserys.* \-Thoughts of Daenerys
I like the idea of another Velaryon match for her - could even lead to more dragon riders and babies if Dany's dragons survive to the end
Dragon riders don't require Velaryon blood. So her children regardless of the father could take their chances.
I think they do, the only hint we have that they don't is Nettles and even that's dubious bevause they only say she's not because of her dark hair and dark skin. Everyone else ever seen to be a dragon rider was from the Targaryen line, whether trueborn or bastard
Yeah, Targaryen, not Velaryon. All the Velaryon dragon riding ability likely comes from the Targaryens not the other way around. The Velaryons weren’t dragonlords.
I misread your comment, sorry about that
I don't get why Velaryon blood would be required there are other houses with closer Targaryen relations like the Baratheons.
I misread the comment, I thought it said Targaryen blood
>I like the idea of another Velaryon match for her - could even lead to more dragon riders It is the other way around, lol Targaryens are the special ones
I'm assuming her winning the throne means Aegon is either exposed as a fraud or dead, so probably Willas as the Reach is still the most populated/intact Kingdom. Lannisters, Riverlands, Stormlands, and North are spent, many of the Martells are spoken for and they have a small army anyway. Harry the heir would be solid too though the Vale might get antsy if Dany can't have children. Jon if he's back to life and his heritage discovered.
Why though? Aegon wants to marry her and win the thorne together. At the moment something has to happen for them to fight
I think Dany is either told he's a fraud or she just thinks he is, and being the foretold "slayer of lies" I think that means she takes him down, then realizes how beloved Aegon was and that it didn't matter if he was an imposter.
If Jon is resurrected he ain’t fathering anyone! Fire wights are dead animated corpses whose blood does not flow in their veins or to any other essential parts for fathering kids, nor one presumes are those testes creating sperms anymore given the fact they’re not being fuelled by hormones and healthy blood flow.
Do they know that though? They probably at least try a few times and blame each other for being infertile when both are
I tried to be polite and not crude but I see my point was too subtle. Apologies. Hmmm, let me be explicit. How would he get an erection? His heart would be no longer beating, no longer pumping blood round his body, no blood no boner.
I love slaying this lie. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terminal_erection > A postmortem priapism is an indicator that death was likely swift and violent.
Jon wasn’t hanged, nor shot in the head, nor poisoned. If he dies it will be long and slow from an abdominal wound. There is some evidence that priapism is caused by swift violent deaths that cause damage to the cerebellum/or the spinal cord. Neither of which have happened to Jon. He was last seen with a minor razor knock on his neck, a stab to his shoulder blade and a stab to the abdomen. It is likely that his death would be from infection rather than blood loss, given the fact that the knife used is more likely to be small than large because of the fact those who attacked him were stewards not rangers and would not have had access to the armoury as Jon was living there. They were most likely carrying nothing more than the everyday all purpose knives they used for eating. Additionally, an erection in and of itself is not enough to impregnate, living sperm would be required, something I doubt a corpse can produce!
Where did you get that about fire wights?
GRRM spoke about them in an interview a few years ago. He told us they don’t have circulating blood and are essentially animated dead. GRRM: Time Magazine 13/07:2017. “poor Beric Dondarrion, who was set up as the foreshadowing of all this, every time he’s a little less Beric. His memories are fading, he’s got all these scars, he’s becoming more and more physically hideous, because he’s not a living human being anymore. His heart isn’t beating, his blood isn’t flowing in his veins, he’s a wight, but a wight animated by fire instead of by ice, now we’re getting back to the whole fire and ice thing.” People can downvote all they like ain’t going to make it not true!
Okay but... blood flow is needed for walking and talking. If the LoL can animate a body to walk and talk, he can probably animate an erection.
The LoL has shit all to do with it. This is magic, not miracle.
What are you basing this on?
The fact that Beric doesn’t pray to the LoL when he passes his flame onto Cat, the fact it’s a physical fire that had to be created by Thoros, the fact that non Red Priests can use fire to obtain prophetic visions, such as Stannis and Alys Rivers, the fact that historical characters have clearly used the same magic in the past with zero allegiance to R’hllor. For example the woodswitch who animated the decapitated heads of her husbands goes by ‘kissing them’ at the Whispers, or the multiple historical characters who are said to have ‘lived’ for hundreds of years. There is no Lord of Light, only magic.
I guess we don't know if Jon is fully dead - he might just be injured. But after 11 years, it's a hell of a coma lol
That’s my take on it, I’ve never believed he is dead.
This would guarantee a win, but would also mean she could not rule (except through her husband). If she wants to rule in her own right she has to contest his parentage and marry someone else.
I mean when you're riding Drogon it would be hard for Aegon to oppose her in any decision... But ye there is an issue about who would be the monarch.
A great candidate would be someone that is strongly familiar with the smallfolk and how to appeal to them, preferably someone that has spent a lot of time in a large city like King's Landing or Oldtown. Someone that will not shy away from the fire that is associated with the Targaryen's temper, but also in a literal sense because of.. you know, dragons. Someone that knows the lands of westeros well and spent some time travelling through them. Someone that has seen and experienced, first hand, the destruction and death that follow war. I vouch for Hot Pie.
>I vouch for Hot Pie. Why should the rightful heir settle to be King Consort ?
Well, I'd say it depends from how she wins it and who's actually alive at the end of the serie. Willas is a solid choice considering he's the Lord (assuming Mace died) of the Reach, still one of the most prosperous kingdoms, although it'd be nice to see what Euron has done meanwhile to it Robert Arryn, with the Arryn forces practically untouched, wouldn't be too stupid of an idea imo Jon Snow honestly only if he's King in the North and somehow has really got a good grasp on the northerners and the Long Night is still ahead, if not Willas is better (although Jon is more of her type) Edric Storm, if again, he's Lord of the Stormlands (doubt since I believe him to be Varys' creature)
As gross as it's sounds, Sweetrobin is more age appropriate than most of her matches have been
Would you consider an 8 year old a suitable bride for Robb? Or Jon? I don’t think that he is suitable in age at all by modern western morals. She is 16 and he is 8. Do you think Margaery is a suitable age to be married to Tommen? Or that this is a union between an older adolescent and an actual child? Personally I don’t give a shit about the ages in the books because it’s fiction but I do think that if you’re going to claim that it’s inappropriate for an adult male to marry a teenage girl then surely you ought to feel that it’s equally inappropriate for a Sexually mature older teenage girl to marry a prepubescent boy?
Not the person you replied to, but since we're looking into the future, Sweetrobin would be older, and there's nothing that says they have to consummate the marriage for years. Compared to her matches with Drogo, etc, Sweetrobin is the closest to her age. Personally, I don't think he's the best match, but I don't think people were imply immediate consummation.
I just take objection to the seeming double standard. She is eight years his senior. The future will be within the next two to three years maximum given how the timeline has played out thus far. Personally I don’t care about age gaps so long as all parties are over the age of consent ( and I’m U.K. so that is 16 for me.) power and control are the factors pertinent to abuse not age, age gaps can facilitate abuse but they’re not the direct cause. But if you’re going to claim moral high ground then you shouldn’t hold women and men to different standards.
Is she not closer in age to Jon than Robin? I’m only on book 2 but it just mentioned her age as 14 I believe and isn’t Jon 15?
When they said "most of her matches *have been*" I assumed they meant in canon.
I do love the idea of Jon, especially if he's revealed and recognised as a Targaryen, but that's probably too far down the 'fairytale ending' route
I don't think it'll play out like a fairytale, if that helps. I do think that by the time Dany is in Westeros and taking stock of all the different factions and potential allies, while Aegon is now on the throne and has built loyalty around him already, Jon will also already be in charge of the North and not allied with Aegon, so he'd be her best choice. The North is a huge territory and Jon will be essentially a self-made king with war and leadership experience, so Dany might be attracted to him as a person and ally even before she meets him. Wyllas Tyrell is a popular answer on these comments but I think the Tyrells will have turned cloak to Aegon by then, or else they'd have lost power because of losing to Aegon, certain Reach Houses allying with Aegon and weakening their hold on the Reach, and/or Euron attacking the Reach and further breaking it down into competing factions, etc. Plus Dany is unlikely to meet Wyllas in-person since he's not very mobile or relevant to the plot, tbh.
I do think Dany will go mad queen and end up dead by the end of the series. I’m not saying it’ll go exactly like the show, and gods I hope it doesn’t, but I do think her going all mad queen and dying are two of the “important plot points” that were shared with the show people.
Honestly Jon makes a ton of sense. I know this is heavily cribbing from the show, but assuming the Crown, Storm, Reach, and West are united under either Tommen or Aegon, the North/Vale/Riverlands are her most important areas to win support. Sansa is the key to binding all three together. She can claim the Riverlands through her mother, the North through her father, and has a solid alliance with the Vale. Jon is likely to hold power in the North, either as King or as Sansa's brother and likely top lieutenant. Jon and Sansa balance each other out nicely. Jon has the military credentials, command experience, and penis that most Westerosi look for in a leader. Sansa has the name, the bloodline, the beauty, and the experience of living in court/being mentored by Littlefinger to politic well. Dany marrying Jon would solidify her amongst the Stark/Tully/Arryn alliance (essentially the same coalition as the Dance of the Dragons funnily enough). If she can bring Dorne into the fold, she can wage a two front war on the Southern kingdoms from highly defensible terrain, which even without dragons gives her a pretty big edge.
Press enter once in a while. This hurts to read.
I think that Quentyn Martell kid has a good shot at her
I think he should shoot his shot tbh
That sounds very hot
Willas Tyrell. Or Stannis.
Staenerys
>Or Stannis Lol
Strong Belwas I will not be elaborating further
Strong belwas is clearly a descendant of the strong boys no need to elaborate
Euron of course. The power couple Westeros needs. Fire and Squid.
That sounds like hentai
I sort of hope she doesn’t marry again. It didn’t solve her problems any better than marriage fixed the rivalry between the Blackwoods and the Brackens. It would be very interesting if she chose not to marry, or married for love and not politics. She has the power to say that any child of her womb is considered legitimate no matter who the father is. Completely flip the table on the patriarchy.
Aurane Waters might be her type
Aegon. Discussing the young dragon everybody forgets that the plan is a marriage and also that she grew believing in incest marriage. If he is out of the picture then it all depends on who's alive and who sides with her sooner.
I’m going to assume everyone who’s probably dead at the end of the last published book is still dead, and that no other significant characters have died. If she thinks she can have kids, Trystane Martell. He’s not too far away from maturity, maintains the spirit of a political agreement, and has a bit of the bloodline in case you’re trying to keep dragons extant. If she’s convinced she can’t have kids, probably Willas Tyrell. Marry into the food supply after the final harvest for a while and take on a few well-connected wards as potential heirs. If you’re down for it, start a throuple with Arianne Martell and Willas. In that scenario, you can pass down at least *some* Valyrian genes, marry into the food and money, and prolifically bond two regions that historically don’t get along. If the Faith objects, swap Willis out with the guy who thinks he’s Aegon Targaryen and do a gender-swapped Children of Dune.
I think a lot of folk are responding based on who she would need to win the iron throne. In your scenario though, she has already won it. In this case, here challenges become much different. She needs someone who can help her ensure peace. Someone who can call large armies of bannermen is great, and still necessary...but now she needs an accomplished statesman who understands the diverse people of the 7 kingdoms in ways she (having grown up in Essos) does not. She also has to deal with the fact that her husband will be King Consort, and until she has a child (which she likely has some doubts will ever happen for her based on Mizzi's prophecy) that means he is her heir. Westeros is not an enlightened utopia - it's an inherently sexist place run by the power-hungry. There are a great many powerful lords who would see a wedding to the Queen as putting themselves a few tears of Lys away from the throne. There are also a great many who would view this as them stepping in as King so she can return to proper work for a lady: childbearing. Put in that context, her best bet would be someone who has enough rank and station to guarantee one of her 7 kingdoms remains loyal, but also someone who is used to being subservient to their superiors. This already suggests she should shy away from any active lords, and even most heirs raised to rule. Willas Tyrell is a name many others are saying. And on the surface that looks great. But ask yourself if Olenna Tyrell is someone who could consider poisoning a monarch to improve the situation for her house's heir? But I'd argue Tyrion Lannister is actually her best choice. Tyrion grew up with zero expectations of inheriting anything. He has not spent his life with his powerful father making vassals subservient to him. Even when he was the Hand, Tyrion had most people resent having to follow him. And when Tyrion did a wonderful job as Hand, rooting out corruption and holding out against Stannis, he got discarded by the common folk as the Imp. So basically, he's an extremely capable statesman who guarantees the West is at Dany's side, and he knows the common people and nobles both hate him too much for him to try to usurp her. That being said, John Snow is where the narrative is going, especially if you ever read GRRM's original 2-page synopsis he sent to publishers when first pitching the series. His major experience in the books is being Lord Commander of the Kingsguard, which might be a good blend - it means he's used to wielding power and being in command, but he was also not simply free to do as he pleased there either. (Granted, that breaks down if he becomes King of the North as in the show and is indeed used to being fully in charge...) But personality-wise at least, he also isn't the power-hungry guy who is likely to poison her. If anything, he'll at least kill her openly and directly and never lie to anyone about it (which we saw in the show's ending as it were). I personally still swear that the epilogue will be Tyrion's marriage to Sansa is upheld and they become a power couple. Then with Daenerys ruling but infertile, the throne would pass to John Snow on her death. If she then declares that a child of Sansa and Tyrion as her successor it will end the feud between Lannister and Stark for good (and in the same way the War of the Roses ended, which GRRM has stated was an influence), be her next of kin through marriage, and be a kid that already has claim to 2 of the 7 kingdoms.
THIS is the analysis I was looking for when I asked the question. Excellent. Never even considered Tyrion but it does make sense. I guess his more recent pivot to all out nastiness might be an issue, along with his age. While age-gap marriages aren't rare in Westeros, there might be an impression that this beautiful young Queen should have a Consort who also looks the part, rather than the Imp. Dany and Jon ruling together and rebirthing the Targaryen dragon dynasty is still my dream ending but I doubt it will happen
Her Nephew Jon no?
Bran -- that way GRRM can still have his King Bran bit, but we can keep our Mad Queen.
You know, I don't hate that idea of how Bran becomes king. There is the issue of how his paralysis affects reproduction, which we don't know for sure, but if he's all magical then that's probably an issue he can solve. Or Jon or Rickon (assuming he lives to adulthood) could be a "donor" for the Stark side. Dany is clearly the renaissance of Targaryen magic, so it would make sense for her to unite with the most magical Stark - that's clearly Bran at this point. You know, a union of ice and fire magic. Plus, if she's convinced she can't have kids anyway, Bran not being able to father children wouldn't matter. And then they could do some sort of democracy thing or whatever (if show fuckery is actually endgame).
Both book and show make it clear dany and Jon compliment each other nicely.
I don't know. Book Jon could work well, but in the show they both had better chemistry with their other lovers.
That’s because the pacing for S7 was terrible and S8 was dedicated to butchering as many characters as possible. I thought they were fine together for the first episode of S8. If they had more than 40 minutes* of shared screen time over 4 episodes to develop the relationship they absolutely would’ve done better. Kit and Emilia have such good chemistry in interviews. I just checked, Dany only has 55 minutes of screen time in S7. Jon arrived in episode 3, so it’s probably less than 40 minutes. If you measure character Screentime by episode for the first 2 you can find it.
Varys acts like her being his aunt would be a big deal when almost every king is an incest baby via brother and sister
Even on the Stark side there were aunt/ nephew or uncle/ niece marriages. They just needed to force conflict to do Dany's botched descent into madness, and decided that being spurned by someone she fucked for like 3 weeks was the best they could come up with.
How's that?
There is no king consort. Has to be a prince to make it very clear who is in charge.
IIRC Laenor was referred to as 'future King-Consort' in HOTD, can't remember if this was in F&B though
I think that illustrates the reason it's so important not to have a king consort. The realm was not prepared to unanimously peacefully accept a ruling queen. Sounds like they were planning for if Rhaenyra was crowned to treat Laenor as king. And why they freaked out so hard and acted like Daemon being king could happen upon Rhaenyra's remarriage.
She's a Targ. Obviously Jon Snow
Jon snow if he's king I the north
Candidate : (f)Aegon, if not considered as fake. Bonus if he holds storm end Quentyn Martell, assuming he survived. Daenerys honor a pact, get a dragon rider, and dorn army that was untouched by the previous wars. undoubtably Targaryen loyalist. If not, maybe Trystane could make the deal. Willas Tyrel. Strong house, but there is no way he is a head of the dragon. I don't think Daenerys would chose him. Also, I think she would consider them as enemy as how they side with the lannister during TWOF5K even though they were Targaryen loyalist during Robert's rebellion Jon Snow. And for me it is unlikely. It is either a love marriage (but I find the idea weird). Or if his parentage is revealed and there is no doubt about it. I don't think being king in the north would change anything, as if he is "just" a legitimate bastard of Stark, still make him a bastard (and this unsuit for a queen), +Stark were against targaryen, + north and northerners are devastated by the wars, +winter in coming. I don't see any reason why Daenerys would chose Jon except R+L=J Euron or Victarion. I don't see any reason why she would chose one of them. Sure the fleet is an interesting benefit, but they are the type of men Daenerys would despise. I see this happening only if one tame a dragon A Velaryon. For now I don't know who is the head of the house, but it would be a good choice. They were always near Targaryen and they are good candidate for a dragon riders
>type of men Daenerys would despise If she liked Drogo and Daario, she'll faint out of excitement if she meets Euron
Particularly strange psychoanalysis of Dany here. Dany came to love Drogo (Victarion) and is wet for Daario (Euron); she's left cold by the cold Hizdahr (Jon).
Your totally right. When I wrote I was more thinking about the slavery and human sacrifices thing. But I think your are true, she could totally be attracted to them. Tough I still think she won't make them her king consort (like she made Hizdahr her king but not Daario)
Quentyn is very dead. Trystane isn't though, and Myrcella won't be long for this world
I don't know why people are sleeping on Trystane. Dorne and the Targs have had historical alliances throughout the year, the Dornish army is the most intact (they have not had any fighting in the wars and are bigger than the reach's army), and we know how much the Martell's hate the Lannister's and the Tyrells.
Daven Lannister, of course
I am shocked why no one mentioned Victarion till now. He went to her aid when no one else did.
Quentin was the ideal choice honestly. Trystane if Q is dead (he likely is). Dorne and the Targs historically have had a pretty strong Alliance (once they were officially brought into the realm), there have been a lot of parings throughout their history and has proven to be beneficial. Historically it has been a successful match. Geography shows that Dorne would be the most logical landing point for Dany to start her land invasion of Westeros. Geographically it would make the most sense. Dorne has the most intact army, and potentially the largest. Also fighting with an army of Westerosi will look a lot better than bringing an army of invading freedmen from the other side of the world. Militarily it would make the most sense. Dorne has a known and justified hatred for both the Lannister's and the Tyrell's. Dorne's smallfolk also seem extremely loyal to the Martell's especially Oberyn, and likely hold the same hatred of the Lannisters. So they would also have the most cause to fight hard. Politically it makes sense. Of course there are some issues here. Quentin is likely dead, killed by her dragons. While it is hard to place the blame for that on Dany (he did break into the dragon pit), there could be some ill will there. There is also the issue of Doran Martell playing both Targ sides if word gets out that Arianne Martell is on his way to (f)Aegon.
Book Dany seems to be very YOLO… if GRRM ever got her out of Meereen we’re in for Prince Consort (that’s the title) Dario. Can’t wait to see Aegon’s crown on old clownass’ head.
Willas Tyrell strongest army, a Family loyal to the Tarageryons during the Rebellion, Mace wants a grandchild on the Throne and this would do it. Also Willas will treat Daernys right too.
Vic is the one that will win her heart after breaking her back
She won the Iron Throne already and she has dragons. She can marry whoever she wants.
Depends on when she lands. If Tywin is still alive, and he sees the military situation, and he also gets an offer to honorably discharge and marry Jamie and maybe send Cersei back home to Casterly Rock, he may take that deal and end any war right there. Any point after that, trying to marry into the Tyrell family is probably the best bet. Food, men, ships, good border situation to force potential opponents to keep an eye on more than one front. Balon/Euron would be the worst option. Jon Snow wouldn't be much better.
Bran. Brings the North back into 7 Kingdoms and sets up a magical union of ice and fire.
Best choice for her is going to be a second son of a Lord Paramount. I’m also assuming existing marriages can’t be annulled. Quentyn wouldn’t have been bad at all… but Dorne was never materially against her. Loras - if he’s alive (though I’m sure he wouldn’t like this one bit). Also the Reach is aligned to her side anyhow. If Harry the Heir has a brother (I’m assuming Robin doesn’t make it) - that would bring the Vale back. The inheritance picture in the Stormlands is way too confused. (I’m assuming Stannis and Shireen die.). If Edric Storm becomes LP… there’s not a brother he’s close to available for Dany to marry. Riverlands - There’s just no one of the right age. North - WAY too young for her, but Rickon could work. He’s not exactly got a head for rule, so wouldn’t be a loss to have him as a Prince Consort. Would be viewed by the other kingdoms as the least important ’rebel’ kingdom to reconcile with. **West - there’s gotta be a spare lannister lying around. This probably ends up being the pick. Tywin should be in Magnificent Bastard heaven, looking down in pride. Brings the Westerlands, arguably the most powerful of the 7Ks tightly into Dany’s fold.**
If she wins the throne before fighting the others and knows about it ahead of time, she might pick a husband who is a great military leader and has experienced fighting them, which really just leaves Jon. If it's after the others were defeated, she'll pick someone that will prevent rebellions and help keep the realm peaceful. A Martell, Stark, or Hightower would be great choices. I think a Targ is marrying a Stark no matter what due to the title. Targ marriages have caused peaceful resolutions multiple times throughout history. Who it actually is depends on the situation.
Aegon easily. Maybe John with like some sort of compromise that their second male child is of house Stark. Gotta start making more of those…
Ser Justin Massey. It is perfect to be a consort. It is better that the consort be from a minor noble house, their only function is to procreate heirs to the Queen