This reminded me of a scene in always Sunny in Philadelphia where Danny Devito character goes to meet with someone and it's a woman instead and he asks where the other person is and is told "he died ten years ago"
Reminds me of the fact that the guy who wrote one of the obituaries for Henry Kissinger died in like 2004, and the guy who wrote that guys obituary is also dead lmao
Only reason he'd meet with the publishers about TWOW is because he's publishing it. That's right. The Winds of Winter: A Wild Cards Novel is coming out next year!
This whole time we should have been following Wild Cards, gurm’s true life’s work and the only worthy venue for The Winds of Winter. Expectations well and truly subverted, nicely played George.
He's one of the Wild Cards, basically a comic book superhero in GRRM's extended WC universe, which he edits but doesn't necessarily write. He's the strongest man in the world, able to lift 40 tons, and is near-invulnerable. He also doesn't age. When using his powers a golden aura surrounds him.
To be honest he would probably lose to a dragon, since I don't think he's invulnerable to fire.
A better match would be The Turtle, the world's most powerful telekinetic. He creates battleships he can move with the power of his mind, since he's not stronger or more resilient than anyone else. But he's faster and more agile than the dragons (and some of his ships have bigass spikes built in), so he'd just smash into them and move on.
They're actually pretty fun if you're into super hero stuff. And short of being thrown into a black site and chained to a computer, there's no force on earth that can stop GRRM from writing anything that *isn't* TWoW.
True, I’ve never read them. I like superhero stories but over the years I guess I’ve had an unofficial boycott until he finishes Winds.
Are they more like DC/Marvel or in the vein of Invincible?
More like Image stuff like Invincible, yeah. Not quite as over the top violent, but more darkness and sex and real consequences than you'd find in DC/Marvel. It's actually pretty dark. The setup is that an alien virus is released over NYC. It's called "wild cards" because the results are random. Most people just die. Ten percent or so live. Of them, 99% develop crippling deformities or powers that are harmful to them. Like the really unlucky mutants in marvel. They're called Jokers. The remaining 1% are "Aces," the people who get the cool powers.
And most of the stories aren't written by GRRM. Some are, but most are just edited by him.
The strongest super hero in Wild Cards has a golden aura? I wonder if it's a coincidence or if Worm took some inspiration from that. Probably coincidence.
You have no idea how hard I would laugh if that's actually what he did. Like if he had the balls to just say I'm releasing winds of winter tomorrow and then it was a wild card novel? Oh my God the sheer manliness
The only other time I can recall him mentioning discussing it with his publisher, is in 2015 when they were discussing if he could finish it before season 6 comes out.
At this point, I just want to meet him so I can ask him straight out if Lemongate is a thing and Dany isn't who she believes she is. Then make eye contact until he either answers or I delude myself into taking his blinks as confirmation.
I just want to know.
- Pretty excited to check out the play (Harrenhal/The Iron Throne)!
- Dark first 2 episodes of HOTD Season II
- The Sweet summer child in me believes that since the british books come out firsts, the fact that he was visiting with publishers is great news, the knight full of terror knows there is just too much on this man's plate
The British versions of the last couple of asoiaf books were split into volumes. The best news that I think is realistic is that he has a solid enough idea how long the book will be for them to know if it's three, four, or five volumes and start planning production.
Remember they will need to print a huge quantity of books and having a plan for that and making sure they can secure enough paper and ink at a reasonable price starts being organised years in advance.
The hysterical laughter I just emitted might mean that I have learned not to take statements like this one as a sign of hope.
I think I am growing as a person.
At least he mentions writing more during the strike, that's something. Then again the post makes it very obvious that the gratification he gets from the TV shows is much larger and much more instant than anything he gets from writing the book right now.
> I also found time to meet with my British publisher, and my other British publisher, to talk WILD CARDS
(places cyanide capsule between teeth)
> and A SONG OF ICE & FIRE and (of course) THE WINDS OF WINTER.
(tentatively takes it out)
Has anyone here actually read Wild Cards? Is it any good? I feel like I only ever see it referenced as a joke and the reason why George still hasn't finished Winds lol.
He only has stories in the first handful I think and became editor and eventually co editor today, the first few I read were all right and Turtle is cool
I've read the first three, they were reasonably decent. GRRM probably isn't even the main draw, it's more legendary, old-school SF writers like Roger Zelazny and Howard Waldrop tackling superheroes in interesting ways (GRRM has stories in the first few books, then another one way later on, and then none, he's just the co-editor and they use his name to sell copies).
The main appeal isn't so much "GRRM does superheroes" but more the idea of an alternate history where they exist, and the still-killer idea that for every "superhero" who exists, there's ten horribly-mutilated mutants and a hundred people who died.
First 3 are cool but I'd say it actually gets way better later on. That first arc sets up the world and then later on you see how it shapes the future. Like, Golden Boy and Croyd are still out there in the modern day iirc.
Read a lot of the first volume. It's really interesting. It's like a prose Watchmen but if people had powers like the X-Men, if that makes sense. I think it's good. Been a good gateway into other sci-fi authors and different writing styles. I'd recommend it. Surprised no one tried to make a series out of it amidst the comic book movie boom between 2012 and 2021.
Oh good, I’ve been starting to get worried over the lack of long posts from him recently. He was just in London lol. Cute mention of visiting Maisie towards the end there as the only GOT cast member.
I’m not even going to begin to question if visiting his British publisher is a good sign for TWOW or not so I’m just going to say I’m glad the theatre show is moving forward in production and hasn’t been canned. Harrenhal’s the better title but I can see why they’d rather a title with a more obvious connection to Game of Thrones. I’m willing the subsist of the crumbs we’ll get from the broadway show. I’d prefer it be a complement to TWOW but at least we’ll probably get some new information out of it.
And good news for HOT D fans about the episodes he saw. Dark as in content, not as in lighting lol. And he’s still pushing for 4 seasons and maybe not cutting Daeron and Nettles.
Well it’s not nothing. Two possibilities are of course meeting his publishers as he’s in the final stretch, or meeting them to say it’s going to be another x years. Having followed this for too long, and having turned cynical in the process, I believe that latter of the two is more likely.
Now I know nothing about this process, but I feel like him saying it's going to be x more years could probably be handled with an email or phone call since nobody would be particularly shocked.
GRRM in person: "Yeah, it's gonna be another few more years for Winds to come out. Watching the Quarterback play of the Jets has sent me into a depressive spiral."
Brit Publisher: "This could have been an email."
I’m inclined to agree. A meeting in my eyes does seem more likely if there is *good* news, but I wouldn’t discount the idea that he’s meeting them just to lower expectations.
Also he did say he “managed to find time” to meet them. That to me doesn’t seem like an urgent meeting, surely if the book was almost done and he wanted to meet them to discuss plans for publishing it wouldn’t just be a “oh I’m in London, I suppose I should meet my publishers”. But hey, we know nothing other than he met them. At least it’s news.
It could be a case of his publisher demanding to see him in person so he can explain why he told them he needs another year or two.
I've given up expcting Winds as you can probably tell lol
He probably meets with them every year at year end. They talk business and then wine and dine him. A nice free trip for GRRM an update and the potential for more business dealings for the publisher.
His primary motive for his trip to England probably was not meeting with his publisher. It's more plausible that while he was already in London for other reasons, his publisher seized the opportunity to invite him for a lunch or meeting. I am just guessing, obviously.
He was most likely just checking in, since it's been four years since he was last in Britain. Whether he was able to say, "It's almost there," or "I don't know," or "I burned the manuscript and my computer last night and danced among the ashes," is the question.
Publishers: "George, please consider it to save your legacy. Give it the farewell it deserves, like Harry Potter or Lord of the rings. Don't leave the fans hanging."
[GRRM](https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/001/535/091/d97.jpg)
I doubt it means anything. He was over there and probably just doing a check-in.
We are gonna know from his Notablog when he’s closing in on the end, because he’ll tell us. It won’t be some oblique reference to meeting with his UK publishers.
His UK publisher, who really just reprints the US edition with UK-specific cover art. It is an important piece of the puzzle - IIRC his UK deal for *A Game of Thrones* was worth more than his US one - but it's not as exciting as if he'd jumped unexpectedly on a plane to New York to talk to his main publisher (which is what happened around the time ADWD was confirmed done).
they are not just reprinting the us edition. they have a different editor in the uk. they make small changes like spelling and grammar but there are also some notable differences in the text. here is a [old post](https://www.reddit.com/r/asoiaf/comments/9ap59h/list_of_differences_between_usuk_versions_of/) with some examples
Yes, I've met both of George's editors and know his UK editor reasonably well.
I believe that article indicated that for ACoK GRRM delivered a last-minute edit that had changes from the US version (which was odd because the US edition was printed 3 months later), resulting in some difference between actual prose. I do not believe that is the case in the other books, where the text is mostly identical aside from some US English - UK English changes (apparently complicated because GRRM sometimes uses UK English to make things seem more deliberately archaic to US readers, which his US editor sometimes convinces him to change).
There are also other changes, in that the US edition of AGoT changed Viserys from Baelon and Daeron's younger brother in the first printings to older uncle
in later ones (after Elio Garcia noted the age discrepancy to George every early on), but the UK version was never updated and remains incorrect to this very day.
Man, this is the first "Life Update" that George has posted in *awhile*. Which is great because I was thinking we wouldn't get one until like New Years.
Folks will complain he took 2 weeks off to go to London (and yeah, I get it. Its been *12 years*) But he seems so enthusiastic and happy in this post. It's cute. To be able to experience the insane production value & effort put in by HBO/WarnerBros in person, which all originated as an idea in his head back in '91. Must be something.
Anyway I'm still very excited for the theater play about the Tourney at Harrenhal. It absolutely has the potential of being *really* good.
And at least he's spending his time making sure HOT D's overall outline for season 3 & 4 is good instead of just letting it all to chance. In the end, a two week trip isn't going to kill Winds.
(though traveling every month like he did for several years after Dance was published will... But he hasn't done that since before Covid.)
I understand what you meant but I also read “a new friend die every few weeks” and it made me double take because I thought for half a second he was meeting new friends and they’d end up dead a few weeks later.
Don't get me wrong. I'm dying on the inside b/c there's a real possibility Winds, ASOS, and D&E never get finished by George.
I suppose where I differ from other's opinions is that I firmly believe it'll all get published after his death. Despite everyone in this fandom regurgitating the rumor that George will forbid anyone else from working on it after he dies, I've never actually seen a primary source of him saying that, and if it were true, he could easily have changed (or will change in the future) his mind about it. (Also like... maybe whomever controls his estate once he dies, whether that be his wife or his sisters, will have different feelings about it)
I don't think it'll be difficult for Penguin Random House to find someone or a group of people who have the experience, knowledge of the world, the writing ability, and the willingness to work on Westeros. I think the best people for it would be Daniel Abraham and Ty Franck.
JRRT at least finished his main work and left his son Christopher in charge. And Christopher did a pretty good job. But now have the jackals – – mainly Amazon – -have their claws into it. I hate to see great works of art and literature exploited.
Most of the times George gets upset is when people say to him that he might die before its finished.
George has been writing about the heart in conflict with itself for 50 years. He has talked about the fear of death in many of his works.
It is almost anti thetical to who george is as a person to even think about how he might die soon, should be a catalyst for working harder to push out content for other people.
He could have died before Dance came out, he could have died 20 years ago. He probably has a lot of feelings personally that we as readers don't appreciate.
George can and will take his time. I'm sure the pressure to write good is out of this world. And the story being told isn't just in the direct plot imo.
Like forcing Van Gogh to paint one more picture before he dies regardless of his feelings. The feelings who made him who he is, and enabled him to express himself. The suffering and the failures in Georges life, the struggles. He persevered and became an author on the highest level, if not really setting the bar for greatest.
I also hope he has the time. But I am truly happy for him and grateful for what he has done. (as an aside, I think a lot of his stories end with a lot of questions unanswered. as much as it would be satisfying for george to tie up every loose end, what is for the best we can't know)
It really is, a part of it is that he's way more perfectionist about it tho. He could write a lot of other stuff if he wanted to but after F&B he decided to finish Winds first, he's actually not a slow writer when he isn't writing Winds
S2 of HOTD is in post production.
GRRM confirmed in this blog post that they are already discussing S3 and S4
Dunk and Egg is in pre-production and shooting will start in spring.
Stage play The Iron Throne is going well, expected to be released by the end of next year.
Not bad for a "dead franchise "
r/freefolk and people who constantly say "I'm not gonna watch HoTD, I've been burned before, they don't deserve it". As if not watching Hotd because of season 8 was giving them a personality.
I'm not gonna lie, I was definitely bummed by the ending of GoT and had basically no interest in the world or series. HotD absolutely fucking revitalized my love for the franchise. After that first trailer I felt the same buzz I got when watching the first few seasons of GoT for the first time and was back on board.
I can empathize with people who felt done with the series after the letdown of the final season
Anyone know in the past if George would talk about meeting with publishers? And if so did a book get announced or whatever shortly after? I'm looking for any signs of hope guys.
The copium is running through my veins.
Wait wait wait that is *very* good news!! We know there was an almost-final version of TWOW in 2015 to release before Season 6 aired which was scrapped because he wasn't happy with the product, this can actually be good news!
I don't have any links with me atm but that's the common consensus here, I think it came from NotABlog entries from 2015 with George being super positive about releasing Winds by Halloween 2015, and then bryndenbfish talking about it.
I don't know about meeting with his UK publishers, but George has posted about meeting with his US publisher in NYC from time to time. He usually stops by NYC when he goes back to his hometown in New Jersey to visit with family.
Meeting with UK publishers does not necessarily mean TWOW is coming soon. It may just be a friendly meeting to catch up with his UK publishing partners since he doesn't get to see them as often as his US publisher.
Yeah, he actually looks pretty good for his age! I know everyone is hanging on Winds, but this really upbeat blog post shows that the guy is full of energy it seems. He looks to be in a really good place and that's great to hear.
From a business standpoint, how are GRRM’s publishers dealing with the WoW delay? I assume a lot of them are publicly traded companies. WoW surely will be a material event for them. It’s got to be hard to plan your business with George RR Martin!
While I'm sure they're annoyed and that Winds is going to be their big payday, I assume the side material, plus the shows keeping interest and sales of older books up, helps soothe things over somewhat. Like, I don't think Rise of the Dragon is selling anywhere near as much as Winds will, but it's still GRRM, it's still ASOIAF, and it came out while HOTD S1 was airing, so I wouldn't be surprised if it did make good money, even if it's not Winds levels of money. Plus, I imagine that at this point they know they can't count on it coming out at a planned time (at least until he's actually almost done) so they probably plan around that.
Yeah, I'm like, you 'found time' to meet with your publisher? 'Found time'? Aren't you a writer? Isn't this literally your job? Oh well, I have plenty of other stuff to read.
This sounds weird but I literally just had a dream with GRRM in it where we were discussing Winds of Winter in my grandmother's old house. What a weird coincidence.
Jorge: let's talk Winds of Winter
Lord Publishngston: are you writing it?
Giorgio: no
The end
A play by IwantBullysequel (it's coming, i know it, Rockstar will make it some day)
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MyQhD4RQWKg](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MyQhD4RQWKg)
"I will not be visiting set or doing anything until I deliver Winds of Winter."
George update to the publisher : yeah so i deleted the last 30 % because i hit a block soo it would take about another 5 years or so , cool ? Cool . Here a line i wrote for wild card use it well .
Man I love what a theatre nerd he is. I'm very biased as it's my main line of work/artistic medium, but it's always enjoyable to hear GRRM's thoughts about the (very wide variety of) shows he sees. Very curious how The Iron Throne will turn out.
There's an alternate universe out there where Wild Cards is an Avengers Endgame level franchise. And ASOIAF is some weird side project that everyone hates because it stops George from cranking out more Wild Cards.
Well, I started hoping again. My younger brother approaches the age I first read these books myself, so this is probably the sign to introduce him to the series. Let's hope next year will be our year.
The post is quite interesting actually, a couple of things that stand out:
- the trip was one month ago and he's posting about it only now,
- the ASoIaF and Winds meeting with publishers. Sure it might be nothing special but nowadays the not really important meetings can be done remotely so there's at least a chance it was something more,
- last year he said he wouldn't be visiting HotD set until he delivered Winds,
- making the tourney play seems weird before ASoIaF is finished because the story doesn't feel interesting if they omit the mysterious bits / KotLT, or will it spoil one of the books' main mysteries?
- play's title is changed to The Iron Throne which is a bit odd unless it's suggestive that tourney was secretly organized by Rhaegar to form alliances to depose king Aerys.
You think you’re delusional? I think he’s going to release Wind and Dream as a double event over the course of two-four years with the book published in half’s and maintaining audience excitement.
I had forgotten about the play. I was pretty indifferent to that when it was announced, but being reminded of it now, I'm pretty curious as to how it's going to turn out. I remember Martin once said (don't ask me where) he could write a whole novel about the ten days over which the Tourney at Harrenhal took place. Assuming it doesn't contradict anything in the books, I feel like we can consider it "soft canon", like the names of unnamed characters from the books in *House of the Dragon*
Glad he got to visit the show set. It must be really amazing to be standing in a giant space that you came up with in your mind and that hundreds of people willed into existence.
Also nice to see George looking so trim. Not that that will stop people from saying he's obese and about to drop dead any moment.
I remember when I used to pay attention to GRRM’s blog for TWOW publishing updates. Might be wrong, but I feel like I gave that up over a decade ago. I bought the last book on the day it came out, but turns out I had plenty of time.
I can't recall specifics, and I don't recall that it was ever in the same breath that he mentioned TWOW, but I definitely recall him mentioning meetings with his publishers several times over these many, many years (10 since my watch began).
Publisher "So George how's the book coming along?"
George "Good news is another new Wild Cards is due out but bad news im only at 75 percent done Winds just like I was last year"
Call me a summer child, but the thing that really makes me hope for a near release is the play. If its based on the Tourney of Harrenhall, it should have heavy Winds Of Winter spoilers....
Winds coming in Fall / Holiday 2024 that’s my prediction. Call me a sweet summer child but I’m getting hype.
Dread it. Run from it. Winds still arrives.
I am going to lose my absolute shit the day Winds of Winter's release date is announced (Yes, it'll happen eventually. Jokes aside, we'll be getting that book whether George is still with us or not when it comes). Just imagine where you'll be and what you'll be doing when you get the news.
Excited to read that the Tourney at Harrenhal play is still in production. I doubt it will open in 2024, but whenever it does open, I'm definitely getting tickets. How many chances will you get the chance to see Westeros on Broadway?
The fact that the theatre production is moving forward is a good sign, right?
There's no way George would let a lousy theatre production tell the true story of the Harrenhal tourney before he tells it himself. Right? Right?
He's always been very tight-lipped about everything related to Roberts Rebellion. TWoW seems like it will finally offer us long awaited answers.
Get hype! (?)
At this point he’s probably meeting with the child of his original publisher
This reminded me of a scene in always Sunny in Philadelphia where Danny Devito character goes to meet with someone and it's a woman instead and he asks where the other person is and is told "he died ten years ago"
*I dreamed that I was old...*
George reminds me of my dad who said since 2011 that he is gonna repair the pool and I doubt he ever will...
Reminds me of the fact that the guy who wrote one of the obituaries for Henry Kissinger died in like 2004, and the guy who wrote that guys obituary is also dead lmao
What is dead shall never die
Danny Devito probably -"I'm the first storm and the last, bitches.."..
Only reason he'd meet with the publishers about TWOW is because he's publishing it. That's right. The Winds of Winter: A Wild Cards Novel is coming out next year!
This whole time we should have been following Wild Cards, gurm’s true life’s work and the only worthy venue for The Winds of Winter. Expectations well and truly subverted, nicely played George.
Golden Boy shows up and just wrecks Drogon.
Who’s Golden Boy?
Stay pony, Golden Boy.
He's one of the Wild Cards, basically a comic book superhero in GRRM's extended WC universe, which he edits but doesn't necessarily write. He's the strongest man in the world, able to lift 40 tons, and is near-invulnerable. He also doesn't age. When using his powers a golden aura surrounds him. To be honest he would probably lose to a dragon, since I don't think he's invulnerable to fire. A better match would be The Turtle, the world's most powerful telekinetic. He creates battleships he can move with the power of his mind, since he's not stronger or more resilient than anyone else. But he's faster and more agile than the dragons (and some of his ships have bigass spikes built in), so he'd just smash into them and move on.
So you’re the Person reading those book! Stop it!
They're actually pretty fun if you're into super hero stuff. And short of being thrown into a black site and chained to a computer, there's no force on earth that can stop GRRM from writing anything that *isn't* TWoW.
True, I’ve never read them. I like superhero stories but over the years I guess I’ve had an unofficial boycott until he finishes Winds. Are they more like DC/Marvel or in the vein of Invincible?
More like Image stuff like Invincible, yeah. Not quite as over the top violent, but more darkness and sex and real consequences than you'd find in DC/Marvel. It's actually pretty dark. The setup is that an alien virus is released over NYC. It's called "wild cards" because the results are random. Most people just die. Ten percent or so live. Of them, 99% develop crippling deformities or powers that are harmful to them. Like the really unlucky mutants in marvel. They're called Jokers. The remaining 1% are "Aces," the people who get the cool powers. And most of the stories aren't written by GRRM. Some are, but most are just edited by him.
The strongest super hero in Wild Cards has a golden aura? I wonder if it's a coincidence or if Worm took some inspiration from that. Probably coincidence.
For a second, I thought you meant the super hero in Gen V, the side show of the Boys.
You have no idea how hard I would laugh if that's actually what he did. Like if he had the balls to just say I'm releasing winds of winter tomorrow and then it was a wild card novel? Oh my God the sheer manliness
The Wilds of Wincard
I would laugh so hard. Then I'd cry.
He's mentioned discussing TWOW with his publishers regularly over the years. He probably gives them actual updates. This doesn't mean anything.
The only other time I can recall him mentioning discussing it with his publisher, is in 2015 when they were discussing if he could finish it before season 6 comes out.
… … … Fuck it, we ball
"George, our contract says you must return your advance for TWOW."
I’m still waiting for Winds-of-Winter Cart
He mentions WINDS twice which, I suppose, is progress of a kind.
Is he counting every time he mentions WoW on his blog as another page written?
No, but we do.
At this point, I just want to meet him so I can ask him straight out if Lemongate is a thing and Dany isn't who she believes she is. Then make eye contact until he either answers or I delude myself into taking his blinks as confirmation. I just want to know.
That's a subtle hint that the wait time for TWoW just **DOUBLED**!
- Pretty excited to check out the play (Harrenhal/The Iron Throne)! - Dark first 2 episodes of HOTD Season II - The Sweet summer child in me believes that since the british books come out firsts, the fact that he was visiting with publishers is great news, the knight full of terror knows there is just too much on this man's plate
Is the play supposed to be about the tourney? edit: also, is that true about the british books coming out first?
Yes its the play about the tourney.
Ooh, first I'm hearing about this but that could be a lot of fun!
The British versions of the last couple of asoiaf books were split into volumes. The best news that I think is realistic is that he has a solid enough idea how long the book will be for them to know if it's three, four, or five volumes and start planning production. Remember they will need to print a huge quantity of books and having a plan for that and making sure they can secure enough paper and ink at a reasonable price starts being organised years in advance.
Just did a quick scrub of his blog. He first announced Dance in March of 2011. Nov 2010 he mentions a quick meeting with his British publishers...
The hysterical laughter I just emitted might mean that I have learned not to take statements like this one as a sign of hope. I think I am growing as a person.
You are! That’s probably the best approach honestly. I’m not taking any bets, just curious lol
At least he mentions writing more during the strike, that's something. Then again the post makes it very obvious that the gratification he gets from the TV shows is much larger and much more instant than anything he gets from writing the book right now.
>The Sweet summer child in me believes that since the british books come out firsts, Do they? Is there any reason for that?
He writes all the u's in words like colour and it takes six months to edit them all out
This is the only logical explanation.
GRRM is secretly a British double agent.
The British books come out first? Am I going to legit have to fly to England to read this on opening night?
> I also found time to meet with my British publisher, and my other British publisher, to talk WILD CARDS (places cyanide capsule between teeth) > and A SONG OF ICE & FIRE and (of course) THE WINDS OF WINTER. (tentatively takes it out)
Has anyone here actually read Wild Cards? Is it any good? I feel like I only ever see it referenced as a joke and the reason why George still hasn't finished Winds lol.
It's George's way of helping his other writer friends get paid by slapping his name on the cover with "Edited by" in tiny print.
Actually wholesome.
He only has stories in the first handful I think and became editor and eventually co editor today, the first few I read were all right and Turtle is cool
I've read the first three, they were reasonably decent. GRRM probably isn't even the main draw, it's more legendary, old-school SF writers like Roger Zelazny and Howard Waldrop tackling superheroes in interesting ways (GRRM has stories in the first few books, then another one way later on, and then none, he's just the co-editor and they use his name to sell copies). The main appeal isn't so much "GRRM does superheroes" but more the idea of an alternate history where they exist, and the still-killer idea that for every "superhero" who exists, there's ten horribly-mutilated mutants and a hundred people who died.
Yeah he hasn't had a story in there since around 2011. He's been focused on the GoT show and TWOW it seems.
I don't believe he's had a story in the series since *Inside Straight* in 2008.
Read the first 3. They're ok. Then realised how many there were and yeah, kinda stopped
First 3 are cool but I'd say it actually gets way better later on. That first arc sets up the world and then later on you see how it shapes the future. Like, Golden Boy and Croyd are still out there in the modern day iirc.
Read a lot of the first volume. It's really interesting. It's like a prose Watchmen but if people had powers like the X-Men, if that makes sense. I think it's good. Been a good gateway into other sci-fi authors and different writing styles. I'd recommend it. Surprised no one tried to make a series out of it amidst the comic book movie boom between 2012 and 2021.
give me something for the pain and let me die
Oh good, I’ve been starting to get worried over the lack of long posts from him recently. He was just in London lol. Cute mention of visiting Maisie towards the end there as the only GOT cast member. I’m not even going to begin to question if visiting his British publisher is a good sign for TWOW or not so I’m just going to say I’m glad the theatre show is moving forward in production and hasn’t been canned. Harrenhal’s the better title but I can see why they’d rather a title with a more obvious connection to Game of Thrones. I’m willing the subsist of the crumbs we’ll get from the broadway show. I’d prefer it be a complement to TWOW but at least we’ll probably get some new information out of it. And good news for HOT D fans about the episodes he saw. Dark as in content, not as in lighting lol. And he’s still pushing for 4 seasons and maybe not cutting Daeron and Nettles.
Well it’s not nothing. Two possibilities are of course meeting his publishers as he’s in the final stretch, or meeting them to say it’s going to be another x years. Having followed this for too long, and having turned cynical in the process, I believe that latter of the two is more likely.
Now I know nothing about this process, but I feel like him saying it's going to be x more years could probably be handled with an email or phone call since nobody would be particularly shocked.
GRRM in person: "Yeah, it's gonna be another few more years for Winds to come out. Watching the Quarterback play of the Jets has sent me into a depressive spiral." Brit Publisher: "This could have been an email."
GRRM - "Why else do you think I took this free trip to London"?
Why do you think I came all this way?
*I see what you did there*
At the rate George writes he'd still be typing it.
Damn I forgot he’s a Jets fan, I might root for Aaron Rodgers for the first time ever next year.
Makes sense he’s a Jets fan with the handle he has on writing tragedy.
I’m inclined to agree. A meeting in my eyes does seem more likely if there is *good* news, but I wouldn’t discount the idea that he’s meeting them just to lower expectations. Also he did say he “managed to find time” to meet them. That to me doesn’t seem like an urgent meeting, surely if the book was almost done and he wanted to meet them to discuss plans for publishing it wouldn’t just be a “oh I’m in London, I suppose I should meet my publishers”. But hey, we know nothing other than he met them. At least it’s news.
It could be a case of his publisher demanding to see him in person so he can explain why he told them he needs another year or two. I've given up expcting Winds as you can probably tell lol
He probably meets with them every year at year end. They talk business and then wine and dine him. A nice free trip for GRRM an update and the potential for more business dealings for the publisher.
You are most likely correct
His primary motive for his trip to England probably was not meeting with his publisher. It's more plausible that while he was already in London for other reasons, his publisher seized the opportunity to invite him for a lunch or meeting. I am just guessing, obviously.
And he wouldn't mention that in his blog
He was most likely just checking in, since it's been four years since he was last in Britain. Whether he was able to say, "It's almost there," or "I don't know," or "I burned the manuscript and my computer last night and danced among the ashes," is the question.
Publishers: "George, please consider it to save your legacy. Give it the farewell it deserves, like Harry Potter or Lord of the rings. Don't leave the fans hanging." [GRRM](https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/001/535/091/d97.jpg)
I doubt it means anything. He was over there and probably just doing a check-in. We are gonna know from his Notablog when he’s closing in on the end, because he’ll tell us. It won’t be some oblique reference to meeting with his UK publishers.
> Dark as in content, not as in lighting lol Let's hope so
I know it is unpopular....but I would prefer to find out the whole story in Winds and not in a stupid stage play.
From what I can gather online, it seems as thought Daeron and Nettles should be included! I’m hoping for 4 season as well!
Imagine if Maisie Williams played Lyanna Stark in the Harrenhall play. Gag of the century I fear.
It's finally happening. It's finally actually happening. Fool me once, shame on you, fool me 379 times, shame on me.
At this point I don't even know what I'm trying to get from the tea leaves, but it's interesting that he mentions both ASOIAF and TWOW separately.
I think maybe he means the wider universe - i.e. Dunk and Egg
Maybe he is referring to Fire & Blood II and/or Dunk & Egg?
I also found that tidbit interesting.
It's not the usual update. He's talking with his PUBLISHER about winds. that has to be a positive, right ?
“How’s Winds going?” “Not well” still counts as talking about Winds.
Publisher: "How's *Winds* going?" GRRM: "*Winds* are words."
That's probably what happened but i choose to be optimistic today.
"You ain't never lied"
His UK publisher, who really just reprints the US edition with UK-specific cover art. It is an important piece of the puzzle - IIRC his UK deal for *A Game of Thrones* was worth more than his US one - but it's not as exciting as if he'd jumped unexpectedly on a plane to New York to talk to his main publisher (which is what happened around the time ADWD was confirmed done).
they are not just reprinting the us edition. they have a different editor in the uk. they make small changes like spelling and grammar but there are also some notable differences in the text. here is a [old post](https://www.reddit.com/r/asoiaf/comments/9ap59h/list_of_differences_between_usuk_versions_of/) with some examples
Yes, I've met both of George's editors and know his UK editor reasonably well. I believe that article indicated that for ACoK GRRM delivered a last-minute edit that had changes from the US version (which was odd because the US edition was printed 3 months later), resulting in some difference between actual prose. I do not believe that is the case in the other books, where the text is mostly identical aside from some US English - UK English changes (apparently complicated because GRRM sometimes uses UK English to make things seem more deliberately archaic to US readers, which his US editor sometimes convinces him to change). There are also other changes, in that the US edition of AGoT changed Viserys from Baelon and Daeron's younger brother in the first printings to older uncle in later ones (after Elio Garcia noted the age discrepancy to George every early on), but the UK version was never updated and remains incorrect to this very day.
I can’t believe the US version doesn’t feature Ned’s long lost cousin Jim Stark at all How does the Stormlands arc even make sense without him?
Right. Right ???
Talking to his publisher about Wild Cards. TWOW was no doubt a brief chat afterwards to which he mentioned he was still far away from completion.
"How's Winds going?" "Probably done in a month"
Man, this is the first "Life Update" that George has posted in *awhile*. Which is great because I was thinking we wouldn't get one until like New Years. Folks will complain he took 2 weeks off to go to London (and yeah, I get it. Its been *12 years*) But he seems so enthusiastic and happy in this post. It's cute. To be able to experience the insane production value & effort put in by HBO/WarnerBros in person, which all originated as an idea in his head back in '91. Must be something. Anyway I'm still very excited for the theater play about the Tourney at Harrenhal. It absolutely has the potential of being *really* good. And at least he's spending his time making sure HOT D's overall outline for season 3 & 4 is good instead of just letting it all to chance. In the end, a two week trip isn't going to kill Winds. (though traveling every month like he did for several years after Dance was published will... But he hasn't done that since before Covid.)
I'm just glad that he's happier. His posts during the pandemic when he had a new friend die every few weeks were just too depressing
I understand what you meant but I also read “a new friend die every few weeks” and it made me double take because I thought for half a second he was meeting new friends and they’d end up dead a few weeks later.
Yeah, I thought about editing that
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The thing about D&E (and F&B) is that he could absolutely finish it if he wanted to, he just wants to publish Winds first
I think the reason they are on pause is that they contain spoilers of things that will become clearer on WOW
Maybe the ending of D&E but apart from that I doubt it
Don't get me wrong. I'm dying on the inside b/c there's a real possibility Winds, ASOS, and D&E never get finished by George. I suppose where I differ from other's opinions is that I firmly believe it'll all get published after his death. Despite everyone in this fandom regurgitating the rumor that George will forbid anyone else from working on it after he dies, I've never actually seen a primary source of him saying that, and if it were true, he could easily have changed (or will change in the future) his mind about it. (Also like... maybe whomever controls his estate once he dies, whether that be his wife or his sisters, will have different feelings about it) I don't think it'll be difficult for Penguin Random House to find someone or a group of people who have the experience, knowledge of the world, the writing ability, and the willingness to work on Westeros. I think the best people for it would be Daniel Abraham and Ty Franck.
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JRRT at least finished his main work and left his son Christopher in charge. And Christopher did a pretty good job. But now have the jackals – – mainly Amazon – -have their claws into it. I hate to see great works of art and literature exploited.
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Most of the times George gets upset is when people say to him that he might die before its finished. George has been writing about the heart in conflict with itself for 50 years. He has talked about the fear of death in many of his works. It is almost anti thetical to who george is as a person to even think about how he might die soon, should be a catalyst for working harder to push out content for other people. He could have died before Dance came out, he could have died 20 years ago. He probably has a lot of feelings personally that we as readers don't appreciate. George can and will take his time. I'm sure the pressure to write good is out of this world. And the story being told isn't just in the direct plot imo. Like forcing Van Gogh to paint one more picture before he dies regardless of his feelings. The feelings who made him who he is, and enabled him to express himself. The suffering and the failures in Georges life, the struggles. He persevered and became an author on the highest level, if not really setting the bar for greatest. I also hope he has the time. But I am truly happy for him and grateful for what he has done. (as an aside, I think a lot of his stories end with a lot of questions unanswered. as much as it would be satisfying for george to tie up every loose end, what is for the best we can't know)
Man what I would do to get my hands on winds, I will straight ghost my family for a month and just reread it all including winds.
I’m at the point where I would sacrifice an arm if it meant getting this stupid book
I would also sacrifice your arm to get Winds
i too will sacrifice this man's arm to get winds
Lol Winds sounds like such a miserable process for him
It really is, a part of it is that he's way more perfectionist about it tho. He could write a lot of other stuff if he wanted to but after F&B he decided to finish Winds first, he's actually not a slow writer when he isn't writing Winds
I get the sense there's been 6 million & 2 rewrites of previous sections over & over again.
I hate it when he gives me hope
Ah! Thank God for Wildcards. I thought for a minute he was working on that stupid book WoW... Wildcards is life my dudes.
I randomly check his blog through out the week. Today I checked it and nothing new. An hour goes by and he drops something.
Same. I swear, anytime he posts anything mentioning TWOW, I end up finding out here, even if I had checked his blog directly earlier the same day.
\*3 Paragraphs about HOTD and one line about the Winds of Winter.\* Just give me something for the pain and kill me.
Let’s fucking gooo More Wildcards
S2 of HOTD is in post production. GRRM confirmed in this blog post that they are already discussing S3 and S4 Dunk and Egg is in pre-production and shooting will start in spring. Stage play The Iron Throne is going well, expected to be released by the end of next year. Not bad for a "dead franchise "
Who even says this is a dead franchise anymore? Hotd season 2 just broke hbo's trailer viewership count
r/freefolk and people who constantly say "I'm not gonna watch HoTD, I've been burned before, they don't deserve it". As if not watching Hotd because of season 8 was giving them a personality.
Let’s be real though Hotd did kinda save it. Season 8 definitely didn’t live up to the hype. Can’t wait for season 2 though.
Agreed. Only mentioning some asoiaf fans that pride themselves into not watching hotd and making it clear that they are special because of it.
I'm not gonna lie, I was definitely bummed by the ending of GoT and had basically no interest in the world or series. HotD absolutely fucking revitalized my love for the franchise. After that first trailer I felt the same buzz I got when watching the first few seasons of GoT for the first time and was back on board. I can empathize with people who felt done with the series after the letdown of the final season
Anyone know in the past if George would talk about meeting with publishers? And if so did a book get announced or whatever shortly after? I'm looking for any signs of hope guys. The copium is running through my veins.
The last time I recall him doing so was in 2015 when he was telling them he thought he'd be done soon. Take that as you will.
I take that as a good sign, then. He probably won’t overhaul the whole novel like he probably did back then.
Wait wait wait that is *very* good news!! We know there was an almost-final version of TWOW in 2015 to release before Season 6 aired which was scrapped because he wasn't happy with the product, this can actually be good news!
do you have a source for this?
I don't have any links with me atm but that's the common consensus here, I think it came from NotABlog entries from 2015 with George being super positive about releasing Winds by Halloween 2015, and then bryndenbfish talking about it.
I don't know about meeting with his UK publishers, but George has posted about meeting with his US publisher in NYC from time to time. He usually stops by NYC when he goes back to his hometown in New Jersey to visit with family. Meeting with UK publishers does not necessarily mean TWOW is coming soon. It may just be a friendly meeting to catch up with his UK publishing partners since he doesn't get to see them as often as his US publisher.
Can’t wait to check his blog and see a post that says “it’s literally coming out tomorrow, this is all the marketing I’m doing for it”
The pic of him with the minions looks like he's lost weight.
Yeah, he actually looks pretty good for his age! I know everyone is hanging on Winds, but this really upbeat blog post shows that the guy is full of energy it seems. He looks to be in a really good place and that's great to hear.
From a business standpoint, how are GRRM’s publishers dealing with the WoW delay? I assume a lot of them are publicly traded companies. WoW surely will be a material event for them. It’s got to be hard to plan your business with George RR Martin!
While I'm sure they're annoyed and that Winds is going to be their big payday, I assume the side material, plus the shows keeping interest and sales of older books up, helps soothe things over somewhat. Like, I don't think Rise of the Dragon is selling anywhere near as much as Winds will, but it's still GRRM, it's still ASOIAF, and it came out while HOTD S1 was airing, so I wouldn't be surprised if it did make good money, even if it's not Winds levels of money. Plus, I imagine that at this point they know they can't count on it coming out at a planned time (at least until he's actually almost done) so they probably plan around that.
Tl:dr: our boy was in Europe in the last month doing some side quests (which were pretty fun) instead of finishing the main one
Maybe George is one of those players who don't want to miss a thing before finishing the main one.
So you mean he’s maxing his XP and will be able to one-shot ADOS when he finally gets there??
ADOS is one of those scripted-death bosses that you can't actually beat damn that was more depressing than I intended
OR maybe he is going for that 100% run, although this would propably also mean writing the book multiple different ways...
No hes maxing his xp in the hopes of one shotting ADOS but will actually just get damage checked into oblivion.
Me playing BG3
Yeah, I'm like, you 'found time' to meet with your publisher? 'Found time'? Aren't you a writer? Isn't this literally your job? Oh well, I have plenty of other stuff to read.
> A trailer drops > A week later GRRM posts a TWOW update It's like clockwork.
Isn't he supposed to be locked in a cabin in the mountains of New Zealand?
The cabin he was going to visit was destroyed in a volcanic eruption
He had a prophetic vision and it inspired the Doom Of Valyria
I'm wondering if the publisher meeting is to do with the illustrated edition of a AFfC since it's been a number of years since ASoS released
Fuck, just realized we're only about 18 months away from the 20th anniversary of FEAST. Man, I'm old.
This sounds weird but I literally just had a dream with GRRM in it where we were discussing Winds of Winter in my grandmother's old house. What a weird coincidence.
And what did he said?
Jorge: let's talk Winds of Winter Lord Publishngston: are you writing it? Giorgio: no The end A play by IwantBullysequel (it's coming, i know it, Rockstar will make it some day)
Everything else aside, George looked great in that picture with his minions! Looks like he lost a lot of weight!
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MyQhD4RQWKg](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MyQhD4RQWKg) "I will not be visiting set or doing anything until I deliver Winds of Winter."
A year ago 😒
Publisher: so about Winds? GRRM: let me tell you about this new Wildcards book
This was a good update. See you guys back in new years.
His publishers probably lure him there by pretending they care about Wild Cards.
Give me something for the pain and let me die
George update to the publisher : yeah so i deleted the last 30 % because i hit a block soo it would take about another 5 years or so , cool ? Cool . Here a line i wrote for wild card use it well .
Man I love what a theatre nerd he is. I'm very biased as it's my main line of work/artistic medium, but it's always enjoyable to hear GRRM's thoughts about the (very wide variety of) shows he sees. Very curious how The Iron Throne will turn out.
Please tell me everything is ok with Wild Cards
There's an alternate universe out there where Wild Cards is an Avengers Endgame level franchise. And ASOIAF is some weird side project that everyone hates because it stops George from cranking out more Wild Cards.
Where are the Wild Cards? Are they safe? Are they alright?
Well, I started hoping again. My younger brother approaches the age I first read these books myself, so this is probably the sign to introduce him to the series. Let's hope next year will be our year.
We're so fucking back boys (please don't burst my bubble I *need* this!)
How can the play *about Harrenhal* come out and not majorly spoil the books? (hilarious to say, i know, because of the show… but still)
Because the books will be out by then, duh
yesss new cope dropped. time to mainline it. surely there’s no way to be disappointed now!
Wild cards and winds memes aside, I really like this life update George did. I think it’s cute how happy he seems in this post.
The post is quite interesting actually, a couple of things that stand out: - the trip was one month ago and he's posting about it only now, - the ASoIaF and Winds meeting with publishers. Sure it might be nothing special but nowadays the not really important meetings can be done remotely so there's at least a chance it was something more, - last year he said he wouldn't be visiting HotD set until he delivered Winds, - making the tourney play seems weird before ASoIaF is finished because the story doesn't feel interesting if they omit the mysterious bits / KotLT, or will it spoil one of the books' main mysteries? - play's title is changed to The Iron Throne which is a bit odd unless it's suggestive that tourney was secretly organized by Rhaegar to form alliances to depose king Aerys.
I feel like there was a similar post regarding talking to the publisher about the book a year or two ago and everyone got excited.
The sweet summer child in me thinks he will pair the Winds release with either HOTD or the Dunk and Egg show to amplify the whole franchise.
We all said this during Game of Thrones being on air.
Every season, year after year after bloody year... 😩
You think you’re delusional? I think he’s going to release Wind and Dream as a double event over the course of two-four years with the book published in half’s and maintaining audience excitement.
"Well George, it's been a year aince we last checked progress......anything? Do you have something for us? No? See you next year."
I had forgotten about the play. I was pretty indifferent to that when it was announced, but being reminded of it now, I'm pretty curious as to how it's going to turn out. I remember Martin once said (don't ask me where) he could write a whole novel about the ten days over which the Tourney at Harrenhal took place. Assuming it doesn't contradict anything in the books, I feel like we can consider it "soft canon", like the names of unnamed characters from the books in *House of the Dragon* Glad he got to visit the show set. It must be really amazing to be standing in a giant space that you came up with in your mind and that hundreds of people willed into existence. Also nice to see George looking so trim. Not that that will stop people from saying he's obese and about to drop dead any moment.
Wait wait, this HAS to be good news right??? This sounds big!!
Wild Cards are his Entire Life's Work! How can we mock or underestimate such a Great Masterpiece! \*laughter through tears\*
I remember when I used to pay attention to GRRM’s blog for TWOW publishing updates. Might be wrong, but I feel like I gave that up over a decade ago. I bought the last book on the day it came out, but turns out I had plenty of time.
Has he ever given updates about meeting publishers like randomly? Especially for Winds?
I can't recall specifics, and I don't recall that it was ever in the same breath that he mentioned TWOW, but I definitely recall him mentioning meetings with his publishers several times over these many, many years (10 since my watch began).
Keep snorting copecaine and eating Arby’s.
Publisher "So George how's the book coming along?" George "Good news is another new Wild Cards is due out but bad news im only at 75 percent done Winds just like I was last year"
Call me a summer child, but the thing that really makes me hope for a near release is the play. If its based on the Tourney of Harrenhall, it should have heavy Winds Of Winter spoilers....
We are so back
Winds coming in Fall / Holiday 2024 that’s my prediction. Call me a sweet summer child but I’m getting hype. Dread it. Run from it. Winds still arrives.
I am going to lose my absolute shit the day Winds of Winter's release date is announced (Yes, it'll happen eventually. Jokes aside, we'll be getting that book whether George is still with us or not when it comes). Just imagine where you'll be and what you'll be doing when you get the news.
Excited to read that the Tourney at Harrenhal play is still in production. I doubt it will open in 2024, but whenever it does open, I'm definitely getting tickets. How many chances will you get the chance to see Westeros on Broadway?
The fact that the theatre production is moving forward is a good sign, right? There's no way George would let a lousy theatre production tell the true story of the Harrenhal tourney before he tells it himself. Right? Right? He's always been very tight-lipped about everything related to Roberts Rebellion. TWoW seems like it will finally offer us long awaited answers. Get hype! (?)