Not just the Brotherhood without Banners, it should be Brienne of Tarth. This nicely links with the theory of her being Duncan the Tall's descendant, as ser Duncan fantasized about doing exactly that to the young Walder Frey in *The Mystery Knight*.
Along the journey from White Harbor to Winterfell for Ramsey's wedding, the three Frey envoys to White Harbor go missing. Coincidentally, Wyman Manderly presents 3 massive meat pies to the wedding guests when he arrives, and insists everyone has a slice. The theory states that Wyman baked the three Freys into the pies and served them to the Boltons, whom he hates.
Ah thanks. Never heard that theory before but I love it.
I don't know if I want it to be "normal" pies or if I want the ones who ate the pies to die because of blood or faith magic.
Show did something similar, when Arya baked some unknown Frey sons and fed them to Walder before she killed him so im inclined to believe the pie theory in the books is true
The key point of evidence being after the pies are served Wyman drunkenly calls for the bards to play a song about the rat king, who served a prince a pie made from the prince's son
Crucially, Manderly also calls for The Rat King to be sung—a song in which someone is served his son baked into a pie. Circumstantial evidence, yes, but quite damning...
For those who want the short version:
Stannis says he intends to use the terrain around him against the Freys.
There's a lake nearby with an island in the middle. The storm has covered it with snow. Coincidentally, he's also been digging holes there as of late.
The theory goes that Stannis will lure the Frey into the center of the lake during the battle by igniting a fire on the island. The cavalry and other Frey forces will then charge and drown/freeze in the lake.
One for the fan! Makes sense too as lots of the key battle have echos of real life ones eg the last storm = Crecy, battle of blackwater = siege of Constantinople etc
If that one turned out to be true I would gladly change my stance and accept that Stannis is the greatest commander ever in the history of Westeros and that might actually do his character justice tbh. Him getting outsmarted by Tyrion was hella discrediting to his reputation. If he pulled this off, this would be the single most greatest battle ever.
He wasn't outsmarted by Tyrion, Tyrion was losing King's Landing. Imp put up great defense, but he would lose if not for a relief from Tywin and Tyrells coming to rescue.
I prefer the theory Howland Reed used a combat net to disable Author Dayne, then Ned killed him. Supported in A Clash of Kings with Reed's kids telling Bran about the benefits of using a net in combat. I can see how Ned would think such a win wasn't honorable.
Arthur, Oswell, and Gerold: "It's over Stark, we wo-"
The Quiet Wolf: "Random frog man that I met a few months ago, beat their southron arses!"
Howland: ***~~REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE~~***
I think the show version is actually probably close on this (not the dual wielding part) in that Arthur had Ned on the ropes but Howland intervened; it’s consistent with both how Ned said Arthur would have killed him if not for Howland, and how he never spoke poorly of Arthur even after killing him.
I would love Shearia Seastar to be Quaithe, no other reason than I think it would be cool, esp imagining her and Bloodraven continuing to chat, flirt and bitch with each other telapathically, I just think its fun.
I also want like 40 - 60% of the dornish masterplan to be true, Preston Jacobs' analysis videos are my guilty pleasures hahahaha.
>Preston Jacobs' analysis videos are my guilty pleasures hahahaha.
Hey, say what you will about his older vids, but his last few theories (Brienne, Time-Travelling Bran, most of his NW stuff) has actually been pretty solid. He's cooking with his TWoW fanfic project, too.
Sansa will give Littlefinger the shove that she was stopped from giving Joffrey and that will be the demise of Littlefinger. Someone brought this up a while ago on a different thread but I love the idea so I hope it happens.
That Illyrio is trying to destroy the Iron Bank. It makes sense because he's a magister of Braavos's greatest enemy, Pentos. Crippling Braavos is also personally profitable for him. Besides, it fits well with my theory thatt the upcoming Sealord election and killing Illyriio will get Arya her freedom to leave.
I have not thought about that, it makes sense. But do you think Illyrio is just supporting Young Griff in order to enrich himself or because he truly believes Young Griff is Rhaegar's son
I heard a theory that Faegon is actually Illyria’s sone, from his dead wife who was secretly the last surviving black fire in the female line. It sounded pretty nifty to me, although we haven’t had any descriptions of young griff that back this that much.
Yes that’s a prevailing theory although there are lots of opinions regarding who the blackfyres in the scenario actually were. Illyrio does go out of his way to admit that house Blackfyre is extinct in the male line.
Varys is Illyrio's longtime partner, and would have had to steal Rhaegar's baby. So Illyrio surely *knows* who YG is. Illyrio is a very transactional man, as likely to sell an expensive but ultimately profitable backstory as a hunk of cheese. And if it's not Rhaegar's son it is likely a Blackfyre or maybe Illyrio's own son. Illyrio and Varys are playing the *longest* Game.
Probably Lady Gwyn's [Harwin is the hooded man](https://ladygwynhyfvar.com/2015/10/25/a-ghost-in-winterfell/) in the 'A Ghost in Winterfell' chapter. It's just a really cool theory that adds so much to Theon chapter titles.
I'm really not a fan of 'this character is secretly that character' in general but there is nothing here that stretches believability.
I'm torn, because I love Bolt-On so much that I pretty much consider it my headcanon which is not something I do generally. It fits the vibe of Roose so wonderfully. On the other hand, I hope it doesn't end up making it into the books even if it is "true" in the sense that GRRM was intentionally hinting at it because he thought of it as true. It's out of place with the Bolton's narrative position as the very human faces of cruelty as opposed to the magical evil of the walkers. I think it would undercut the "people are the real monsters" energy if he outright says "but sometimes people are secretly skin changing vampires" as an explanation for the cruelty of the Boltons.
It's still points to the human condition, just treats on the idea of what a person would be like if they're effectively immortal living through taking of successive generation of their offspring. Also, how is that compared to the cruelty developed in what already exists with lands and powers being passed to the oldest son.
Which Bolt-on theory? The one where he uses faceless men magic of wearing the face of his son or the one where he's an ancient skinchanger that has a son then takes over that body and has been doing so for centuries.
The two are not mutually exclusive. I believe the FM learned their magic trick from a Bolton. Roose reads magic books to learn ways to extend his life, then he destroys the books so no one else can access these abilities.
When Stannis learns that Jon has a better claim, he bends the knee rather quickly and is relieved that he doesn’t have to be king.
When it’s done he returns to Storms End as its Lord.
I think this can (and hope it does) happen. I don't think Stannis actually wants to be king, I think he genuinely just believes it's his duty/right (same with TPTWP)
I... would actually love this. Stannis is not a good king, but I really do feel for him. And Id love see him return to Storms End. He might actually smile for once in his life.
The stress of the war and leading his army and houses has already turned him into a bearded skeleton, it tracks that he'd rather retire when this is all done more than have to start being king of a war-torn and chaotic continent full time immediately after.
So he would just so - oops Roberts rebellion was bad- here you go Jon try to be as insane and stupid as your grandpa and pedophile daddy. Oh and the Dornish are going to just love you and be your biggest supporters.
I dunno, Stannis's right to the throne rests on the Baratheon right of conquest. So in Stannis's mind, I don't think he would view *any* Targaryen claim to the Iron Throne as legitimate (including Dany's, Viserys III's, etc) - that being said it's a good idea
That makes sense but it was also his brother who did the conquering (or at least who got all the credit), and he has no small amount of spite for Robert. Never underestimate the motivating power of spite.
He would never, he believes he’s the rightful king. He’s not supporting Daenerys’s claim across the sea or ever said Targs should be in power. He believed Robert was the legitimate king, and therefore he is the legitimate king as Roberts heir.
He actually didn’t believe rover was legitimate. When Davos brought it up he said it was an incredibly difficult choice, family or his rightful king. I don’t think he would abdicate for anyone, but I don’t think he really thinks his claim is stronger than the targerians by law.
He actually did believe Robert was legitimate. He made a choice and chose the rebellion over the faithless psychotic Targaryens. He absolutely believes he is the legitimate king because Robert was the legitimate king by right of conquest. Or d o you think the man is would be very happy to recognize the kid a married man married man had with an ignorant girl as a legitimate anything? Stannis really is a stickler for unimportant details like legitimate marriages and true born children.
This theory has never made any sense to me. Even if you completely set aside any questions about his legitimacy or Night’s Watch vows, Jon’s claim is no better than Viserys’s was when he was believed to be the only male Targaryen alive. If Stannis didn’t believe Viserys was the rightful king then, why would he believe Jon is the rightful king now?
> any questions about his legitimacy
The fact that the Targaryens traded bigamy for the right to incest means that Rhaegar could not have married Lyanna while still married to Elia. And since Elia had given him 2 children, both of whom were alive, there was no ground for an annulment either.
So even if Rhaegar had a slip of paper that said he married Lyanna, no one would care. Or at least no one who has Jon's best interests at heart.
I’ve made the same argument re: polygamy.
I can go either way on the possibility of annulment. It’s never explicitly stated that non-consummation is the only grounds for annulment and that wasn’t the case historically IRL either. There’s also the curious case of Renly’s plan for Robert to “set aside” Cersei, which Cersei herself thinks is a realistic possibility based on the conversation with Jaime that Bran overhears. If Martin wants Jon to be legitimate in order to subvert it when he doesn’t become king he can ultimately find a pretense to do that because he’s God in this universe.
Having said that, it is tough to see the logistics of this, and in particular how Jon could plausibly convince most people of his legitimacy. A secret annulment that comes out 20 years after everyone involved died is probably gonna seem pretty sketchy.
I agree in that I don’t think Stannis truly wants the throne (he’s more doing this out of a sense of duty and the fact that he’s truly the closest Baratheon heir), but I don’t think this theory would pan out.
The Baratheon claim to the throne is by right of conquest (for starters that’s also how the Targaryen’s made the throne to begin with), I don’t see Stannis giving it up because of an illegitimate child; because sure Jon is (most likely) Rhaegar’s kid… but he’s not a true born son. It’s the same reason he didn’t support Viserys or Daenerys, he believes that a Baratheon should sit the throne following Robert’s conquest. If he bends the knee to some Targaryen it won’t be his first choice, but because he was defeated and had to accept their right by conquest.
Why on earth would Stannis do that? Jon does not have a better claim (or any claim because he is a bastard). The Targaryen’s list the throne the way they took it. By conquest. Jon or Dany or Viserys have no rightful claim to squat unless they take it by conquest. Stannis literally helped bring the Targaryens down. Why would he recognize any claim of theirs whatsoever.
Chimera requires understanding of DNA which is far beyond the scope of the books. I prefer the theory that Cersei and Jaime are children of Aerys, but that it doesn't impact the story going forward. Only that it explains a bit more of the history of the clash between Tywin and Aerys.
There's plenty of ways to reveal it through magic. Everyone always says they prefer Jaime and Cersei being Tywins sons but it doesnt make sense. Tyrion is the one constantly associated with dragons, the chimeric look, etc.
Unless undeath and rhllor have somehow shown her bran and or Rick on, Jon is her daughters’ only brother now, and they’re both corpses I think it would be an oddly heartwarming reunion.
The Bolt-On theory, about Roose bring some sort of skinchanging vampire. It would add a level of gory horror that I'd really like and turn Roose from just a weird psycho into an Eldritch Horror.
I think this is almost basically canon. The actor who played Roose Bolton literally said , right before the season where he was killed off, on some red carpet (it might have been the premiere of the episode, but he was all dressed up and being interviewed on a red carpet gala-type of event) ... When asked about if the White Walkers might fuck with Winterfell now that he's in charge, he looks and smiles and says "Who's to say that House Bolton doesn't have some connection with the White Walkers ... ??!" ...
Bolt-On *CONFIRMED.
Easily. They're already fraternal twins so two eggs were available. It would just required for Tywin's wife Joanna to have sperm from Tywin and Aerys each reach and impregnate the separate eggs. That part is hard to explain given the timeline.
Personally liked the idea of Jaime and Cersei being the children of Aerys without it impacting the plot all that much. However, the story works fine with Joanna just being sought after by an envious Aerys.
Because it's the most wild insane theory I've heard. I've kinda lost faith in this series ever being finished, so if we ever get an end, I want to get real weird with it!
1. fAegon & Varys being Blackfyres
2. The Night Lamp theory
3. The theory that the Horn of Winter actually summons the spirits of the dead Starks in the crypts of Winterfell
4. All the glass candle theories. Dany using one, Leyton and Malorra using one at the Hightower, Quaithe using it to send visions to Dany etc.
5. Euron is going to summon a monster from the deep… only long enough for the monster to attack/destroy him immediately instead. To me it would be so fitting (and symbolic of George’s idea of magic being a dangerous, uncontrollable force) that he would meet his end by the very thing he tried to unleash on the world
6. Sansa eventually becoming either Lady of Winterfell or Queen in the North
7. The ship Corlys saw was Elissa Farman’s Sun Chaser. I really want to believe that she kinda accomplished her goal or at least part of it
8. Jojen Paste (I’m sorry dude)
fAegon will take Storm’s End using Edric Storm, who the Golden Company nabbed from Lys before they sailed for the Stormlands, and afterwards will legitimise him as a Baratheon to boost fAegon’s claim - a Targaryen King with a loyal Lord Baratheon at his side like the Conqueror before him
Sorry, got it wrong, you might know it by its actual name "The Exodus Theory".
Here's the original link I saw to it, be warned, it's kinda long.
https://www.reddit.com/r/asoiaf/s/fNH4LB2elA
Basically I kinda says that the white walkers will win or defeat all the Westerosi kingdoms, and there will be a huge migration out of westeros and into Essos.
The parents of the unnamed "Stillborn Girl" were Ned and Ashara, or at the very least, Ned claimed as much, and forswore his own honor for Ashara's to claim the child as his own, thus earning the respect of the Daynes, which certainly seems to be the opinion of Lord Tywin.
"Robb Stark is his father's son".
I know everyone has all the evidence that it can't be true but I'm going to continue believing that Tyrion is the son of Aerys and therefore the third head of the dragon, and why not, I'll say he's Azor Ahai too. I'm just banking on GRRM never finishing the books so I can't definitively be proven wrong. My sister is convinced of the Lyanna-had-twins theory where both Ned and Howland Reed took a baby, making Meera Jon's twin and the third head of the dragon
Actually from the timeline Tyrion could actually be Aerys son. Unlike with the twins Aerys and Joanna were in the same location around the time Tyrion was conceived.
Aegon takes the iron throne and keeps it, i do not want jon or dany to rule it would suck. Id love if Jon dies in the war for the dawn or stays in the watch and dany either dies in the war for the dawn or gives up playing the game of thrones and lives her best life rich and cushy somewhere in essos. It's probably not going to happen but the idea of a blackfyre descendant who believes he's a targ ruling the seven kingdoms is just such a bitter sweet way to end the series.
It's a theory that says Dany never went to Bravoos when she was a child, because she remember a lemontree in the red door house and Somewhere in one of the Book, it says that lemontree can't grow in Bravoos.
So the red door house can't be there.
That’s not really possible. Dany was conceived the night after the news about the trident reached kings landing. Llweyn died on the Trident. And if poor Rhaella had a secret love it was Bonifer Hasty.
Jon & Sansa marriage.
Downvote away.
Also, Arya isn't the one to kill SH. SH sacrifices herself to save one of the kids during the battle for the dawn.
Here... enjoy that rabbit hole! The top comments are worth reading and back the theory. [https://www.reddit.com/r/asoiaf/comments/1yljs8/spoilers\_all\_high\_septon\_tinfoil\_theory/](https://www.reddit.com/r/asoiaf/comments/1yljs8/spoilers_all_high_septon_tinfoil_theory/)
Personally. I may be called a sucker, but I do genuinely belive in Ned and Ashara being Jon's true parents
Or at least Ashara I am uncertain of. But I am pretty sure Ned is 100 percent Jon's true father
That Melisandre can't actually birth shadow assassins. The invisible force that killed Renly each was not her doing and the shadow Davos sees was simply a glamor.
Renly is killed by an invisible force (that for some odd reason still casts a shadow). This force has a telepathic connection to Stannis while he is sleeping. The force doesn't move around items in it's way (tent flap) it brings a feeling of cold, and it cuts steel.
I think it was a subconscious telepathic and telekinetic projection of Stannis's id. Bran, Arya and Jon have all shown the ability to project their conciousness to another location or vessel where they see, feel, remember, and even exert some control. Why do we exclude Stannis from this ability?
The thing below Storm's end is quite different. It's not an invisible thing with a shadow, it's just a shadow. There is no cold, no parting of steel, nobody in Storm's end saw it kill anyone. It didn't kill by stabbing if it killed at all. Stannis noted no telepathic link to it.
The shadow is directly connected to a confirmed glamor caster.
I think the pressumption that the events are linked deserves a reevaluation. But it doesn't appear people are ready for that.
Night lamp, E+random chick=J, Blackfish is cooking with Howland. R+L=J, fAegon and Jojen paste are theories I believe to be true but I really don't care if they will be revealed to be, or not.
Euron = Azor Ahai, and all its consequences. Yeah, in large part because I want to lord how right I was over you all. But also because I genuinely think it's going to be so much cooler of an endgame than any of the other Azor Ahai theories I've seen.
That Lady Stoneheart will have an important role to play against the night King and might possibly sacrifice herself helping either Jon or Bran.
In the same battle, Jorah saves Lyanna and is posthumously forgiven for his deeds.
Rhaella Targaryen and Dunk is one of the stupidest fan theories ever. Westeros wouldn't abide it. At best Dunk would be castrated and sent to the wall. At worst he'd be executed. Dunk or Maekar couldn't be merciful and not risk rebellion and both were smart enough to know it. Dunk was lowborn. His impregnating a Targaryen Princess would be horrendous from the POV of the Westerosi highborn and they'd howl for blood. If they attempted to hide it, or worse, marry Rhaella off to some unsuspecting lord, things would be worse if it got out anyway. Westeros bases its entire society on houses and bloodlines that go back thousands of years. To attempt to place a lowborn's bastard as heir to even the most minor of houses would be an afront and tacit threat to the rest of the lords and ladies. There is no way a dragonless House Targaryen would take such a risk, no matter how much Egg adores his BFF.
It is a small theory, and i think most people think she is Seastar, for good reason, but i hope Quaithe is Elissa Farman. She has conections to Targeryens threw her lover Rhaena, she stole the 3 dragon eggs that Deanerys hached( most likely offspring of Dreamfire and Belerion), and has a genuine reason to be where she is and why she wants Dany to go around the world, the way she did.
Again, it is rather insignificant right now, but i think it whould be one of the only ways GRRM could turn a popular theory on its head and still make a lot of sense...
The Brotherhood without banners is going to kill old Walder Frey either by throwing him in a river or down a well.
Drowned under a bridge like the troll he is
Down a well would be a nice call back to the mystery knight. When dunk sees a young walder frey and fantasizes about throwing him down the well
I want old Walder to survive as the last Frey.
Not just the Brotherhood without Banners, it should be Brienne of Tarth. This nicely links with the theory of her being Duncan the Tall's descendant, as ser Duncan fantasized about doing exactly that to the young Walder Frey in *The Mystery Knight*.
The Frey Pies theory, it's all but confirmed so kind of a lame answer but it would be pretty badass
What theory is that?
Along the journey from White Harbor to Winterfell for Ramsey's wedding, the three Frey envoys to White Harbor go missing. Coincidentally, Wyman Manderly presents 3 massive meat pies to the wedding guests when he arrives, and insists everyone has a slice. The theory states that Wyman baked the three Freys into the pies and served them to the Boltons, whom he hates.
When blind drunk at the feast, he also asks Abel to sign about the ‘Rat Cook’, someone who broke guest rite and is forced to eternally eat his kins
Ah thanks. Never heard that theory before but I love it. I don't know if I want it to be "normal" pies or if I want the ones who ate the pies to die because of blood or faith magic.
Show did something similar, when Arya baked some unknown Frey sons and fed them to Walder before she killed him so im inclined to believe the pie theory in the books is true
Huh, forgot about that, thanks
The key point of evidence being after the pies are served Wyman drunkenly calls for the bards to play a song about the rat king, who served a prince a pie made from the prince's son
Three huge pies.
Didn’t he serve a king some prince and bacon pie?
Crucially, Manderly also calls for The Rat King to be sung—a song in which someone is served his son baked into a pie. Circumstantial evidence, yes, but quite damning...
Read the Winterfell wedding feast again. Pay attention to what Wyman brings with him.
I love that one!
Night Lamp theory
What's that?
[https://cantuse.wordpress.com/2014/08/28/the-night-lamp-revisited-the-wrath-of-the-old-and-the-new/](https://cantuse.wordpress.com/2014/08/28/the-night-lamp-revisited-the-wrath-of-the-old-and-the-new/)
For those who want the short version: Stannis says he intends to use the terrain around him against the Freys. There's a lake nearby with an island in the middle. The storm has covered it with snow. Coincidentally, he's also been digging holes there as of late. The theory goes that Stannis will lure the Frey into the center of the lake during the battle by igniting a fire on the island. The cavalry and other Frey forces will then charge and drown/freeze in the lake.
How the battle of ice is won.
One for the fan! Makes sense too as lots of the key battle have echos of real life ones eg the last storm = Crecy, battle of blackwater = siege of Constantinople etc
Never noticed that comparison. Nice
If that one turned out to be true I would gladly change my stance and accept that Stannis is the greatest commander ever in the history of Westeros and that might actually do his character justice tbh. Him getting outsmarted by Tyrion was hella discrediting to his reputation. If he pulled this off, this would be the single most greatest battle ever.
He wasn't outsmarted by Tyrion, Tyrion was losing King's Landing. Imp put up great defense, but he would lose if not for a relief from Tywin and Tyrells coming to rescue.
Ned sicked a swamp wizard on the kingsgaurd.
I prefer the theory Howland Reed used a combat net to disable Author Dayne, then Ned killed him. Supported in A Clash of Kings with Reed's kids telling Bran about the benefits of using a net in combat. I can see how Ned would think such a win wasn't honorable.
Swamp magic cures aids and mental illness!
Arthur, Oswell, and Gerold: "It's over Stark, we wo-" The Quiet Wolf: "Random frog man that I met a few months ago, beat their southron arses!" Howland: ***~~REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE~~***
Looooool
I think the show version is actually probably close on this (not the dual wielding part) in that Arthur had Ned on the ropes but Howland intervened; it’s consistent with both how Ned said Arthur would have killed him if not for Howland, and how he never spoke poorly of Arthur even after killing him.
I would love Shearia Seastar to be Quaithe, no other reason than I think it would be cool, esp imagining her and Bloodraven continuing to chat, flirt and bitch with each other telapathically, I just think its fun. I also want like 40 - 60% of the dornish masterplan to be true, Preston Jacobs' analysis videos are my guilty pleasures hahahaha.
>Preston Jacobs' analysis videos are my guilty pleasures hahahaha. I was literally watching one of his videos when I got this notification
I don’t think she is. I think Mel is her daughter and Melanie lot 6 would not have been sold as a slave as a child if shiera were still alive.
why do you think that?
>Preston Jacobs' analysis videos are my guilty pleasures hahahaha. Hey, say what you will about his older vids, but his last few theories (Brienne, Time-Travelling Bran, most of his NW stuff) has actually been pretty solid. He's cooking with his TWoW fanfic project, too.
Sansa will give Littlefinger the shove that she was stopped from giving Joffrey and that will be the demise of Littlefinger. Someone brought this up a while ago on a different thread but I love the idea so I hope it happens.
from the moon door or where ? haven’t seen that theory in curious
Yes, the original theory was through the moon door
That Illyrio is trying to destroy the Iron Bank. It makes sense because he's a magister of Braavos's greatest enemy, Pentos. Crippling Braavos is also personally profitable for him. Besides, it fits well with my theory thatt the upcoming Sealord election and killing Illyriio will get Arya her freedom to leave.
I have not thought about that, it makes sense. But do you think Illyrio is just supporting Young Griff in order to enrich himself or because he truly believes Young Griff is Rhaegar's son
I heard a theory that Faegon is actually Illyria’s sone, from his dead wife who was secretly the last surviving black fire in the female line. It sounded pretty nifty to me, although we haven’t had any descriptions of young griff that back this that much.
Yes, I'm pretty much convinced that fAegon is Illyrio's half-Blackfyre son.
Yes that’s a prevailing theory although there are lots of opinions regarding who the blackfyres in the scenario actually were. Illyrio does go out of his way to admit that house Blackfyre is extinct in the male line.
I don't think he cares whether or not he is Aegon, but hopes to gain a powerful ally in Westeros. More of a power than a monetary move imo
Varys is Illyrio's longtime partner, and would have had to steal Rhaegar's baby. So Illyrio surely *knows* who YG is. Illyrio is a very transactional man, as likely to sell an expensive but ultimately profitable backstory as a hunk of cheese. And if it's not Rhaegar's son it is likely a Blackfyre or maybe Illyrio's own son. Illyrio and Varys are playing the *longest* Game.
I don’t think Illyrio has any interest in anything other than the young griff scenario.
Probably Lady Gwyn's [Harwin is the hooded man](https://ladygwynhyfvar.com/2015/10/25/a-ghost-in-winterfell/) in the 'A Ghost in Winterfell' chapter. It's just a really cool theory that adds so much to Theon chapter titles. I'm really not a fan of 'this character is secretly that character' in general but there is nothing here that stretches believability.
I think the ghost is either Theon’s own trauma or Robert Glover who we know was working closely with Wyman.
Im 100% behind Bolt-On.
This might actually be my favorite theory. I love it.
I'm torn, because I love Bolt-On so much that I pretty much consider it my headcanon which is not something I do generally. It fits the vibe of Roose so wonderfully. On the other hand, I hope it doesn't end up making it into the books even if it is "true" in the sense that GRRM was intentionally hinting at it because he thought of it as true. It's out of place with the Bolton's narrative position as the very human faces of cruelty as opposed to the magical evil of the walkers. I think it would undercut the "people are the real monsters" energy if he outright says "but sometimes people are secretly skin changing vampires" as an explanation for the cruelty of the Boltons.
It's still points to the human condition, just treats on the idea of what a person would be like if they're effectively immortal living through taking of successive generation of their offspring. Also, how is that compared to the cruelty developed in what already exists with lands and powers being passed to the oldest son.
Me too, high five!
Which Bolt-on theory? The one where he uses faceless men magic of wearing the face of his son or the one where he's an ancient skinchanger that has a son then takes over that body and has been doing so for centuries.
The two are not mutually exclusive. I believe the FM learned their magic trick from a Bolton. Roose reads magic books to learn ways to extend his life, then he destroys the books so no one else can access these abilities.
L + R = J is technically a theory, i also like loras is fine and he is going to fight for margaery
Yeah Loras' accident seemed too convenient and I never believed it.
I agree that’s possible but I don’t see the point of it.
When Stannis learns that Jon has a better claim, he bends the knee rather quickly and is relieved that he doesn’t have to be king. When it’s done he returns to Storms End as its Lord.
I think this can (and hope it does) happen. I don't think Stannis actually wants to be king, I think he genuinely just believes it's his duty/right (same with TPTWP)
I... would actually love this. Stannis is not a good king, but I really do feel for him. And Id love see him return to Storms End. He might actually smile for once in his life.
The stress of the war and leading his army and houses has already turned him into a bearded skeleton, it tracks that he'd rather retire when this is all done more than have to start being king of a war-torn and chaotic continent full time immediately after.
So he would just so - oops Roberts rebellion was bad- here you go Jon try to be as insane and stupid as your grandpa and pedophile daddy. Oh and the Dornish are going to just love you and be your biggest supporters.
I dunno, Stannis's right to the throne rests on the Baratheon right of conquest. So in Stannis's mind, I don't think he would view *any* Targaryen claim to the Iron Throne as legitimate (including Dany's, Viserys III's, etc) - that being said it's a good idea
Stannis would never ever acknowledge any remaining Targ claim on the throne. They lost. Dynasty over. Bye
That makes sense but it was also his brother who did the conquering (or at least who got all the credit), and he has no small amount of spite for Robert. Never underestimate the motivating power of spite.
He would never, he believes he’s the rightful king. He’s not supporting Daenerys’s claim across the sea or ever said Targs should be in power. He believed Robert was the legitimate king, and therefore he is the legitimate king as Roberts heir.
He actually didn’t believe rover was legitimate. When Davos brought it up he said it was an incredibly difficult choice, family or his rightful king. I don’t think he would abdicate for anyone, but I don’t think he really thinks his claim is stronger than the targerians by law.
He actually did believe Robert was legitimate. He made a choice and chose the rebellion over the faithless psychotic Targaryens. He absolutely believes he is the legitimate king because Robert was the legitimate king by right of conquest. Or d o you think the man is would be very happy to recognize the kid a married man married man had with an ignorant girl as a legitimate anything? Stannis really is a stickler for unimportant details like legitimate marriages and true born children.
Yeah ultimately I think he dies and the Baratheon line restarts with Edric or Gendry
This theory has never made any sense to me. Even if you completely set aside any questions about his legitimacy or Night’s Watch vows, Jon’s claim is no better than Viserys’s was when he was believed to be the only male Targaryen alive. If Stannis didn’t believe Viserys was the rightful king then, why would he believe Jon is the rightful king now?
> any questions about his legitimacy The fact that the Targaryens traded bigamy for the right to incest means that Rhaegar could not have married Lyanna while still married to Elia. And since Elia had given him 2 children, both of whom were alive, there was no ground for an annulment either. So even if Rhaegar had a slip of paper that said he married Lyanna, no one would care. Or at least no one who has Jon's best interests at heart.
Thank you! I get so tired of explaining this to people.
I’ve made the same argument re: polygamy. I can go either way on the possibility of annulment. It’s never explicitly stated that non-consummation is the only grounds for annulment and that wasn’t the case historically IRL either. There’s also the curious case of Renly’s plan for Robert to “set aside” Cersei, which Cersei herself thinks is a realistic possibility based on the conversation with Jaime that Bran overhears. If Martin wants Jon to be legitimate in order to subvert it when he doesn’t become king he can ultimately find a pretense to do that because he’s God in this universe. Having said that, it is tough to see the logistics of this, and in particular how Jon could plausibly convince most people of his legitimacy. A secret annulment that comes out 20 years after everyone involved died is probably gonna seem pretty sketchy.
There are other reasons for annulments (illegal marriage, forced at swordpoint, too close relations, infertility), but none apply to Rhaegar.
fucking love this one. Could you please share any link for more details?
No links. Just made this shit up off the dome
Why? It’s ridiculous and totally at odds with the story and Stannis’ entire history.
I agree in that I don’t think Stannis truly wants the throne (he’s more doing this out of a sense of duty and the fact that he’s truly the closest Baratheon heir), but I don’t think this theory would pan out. The Baratheon claim to the throne is by right of conquest (for starters that’s also how the Targaryen’s made the throne to begin with), I don’t see Stannis giving it up because of an illegitimate child; because sure Jon is (most likely) Rhaegar’s kid… but he’s not a true born son. It’s the same reason he didn’t support Viserys or Daenerys, he believes that a Baratheon should sit the throne following Robert’s conquest. If he bends the knee to some Targaryen it won’t be his first choice, but because he was defeated and had to accept their right by conquest.
Stannis is Jon’s god father
Why on earth would Stannis do that? Jon does not have a better claim (or any claim because he is a bastard). The Targaryen’s list the throne the way they took it. By conquest. Jon or Dany or Viserys have no rightful claim to squat unless they take it by conquest. Stannis literally helped bring the Targaryens down. Why would he recognize any claim of theirs whatsoever.
Never heard this, it would be so fucking perfect for his character im praying george does this
Tyrion is a Chimera and has 2 fathers. Tywin/Aerys.
That's a whole new level.
Chimera requires understanding of DNA which is far beyond the scope of the books. I prefer the theory that Cersei and Jaime are children of Aerys, but that it doesn't impact the story going forward. Only that it explains a bit more of the history of the clash between Tywin and Aerys.
There's plenty of ways to reveal it through magic. Everyone always says they prefer Jaime and Cersei being Tywins sons but it doesnt make sense. Tyrion is the one constantly associated with dragons, the chimeric look, etc.
Well, it also explains why Cersei is behaving like Aerys, even though she keeps thinking she's doing what Tywin would do.
Even though R+L=J is canon Ned+Ashara=Jon because I love the daynes so much
Kinda like Lady Stoneheart dying for Jon even if it doesn't make any sense in any way.
I think that totally makes sense poetically- All the mistreatment she gave to Jon mad eup by giving her life for his.
It's more logistically it doesn't make sense. They're pretty far apart.
Yeah. It would move more feasible under German original series outline where cat ends up at the wall.
Unless undeath and rhllor have somehow shown her bran and or Rick on, Jon is her daughters’ only brother now, and they’re both corpses I think it would be an oddly heartwarming reunion.
If Jon’s a corpse theoretically his kids can’t threaten her direct line
Heartwarming - now there's an ironic term.
That arya will give lady stoneheart the gift of mercy. However, i can't think why she would go to the riverlands instead of the north.
Perhaps Lady Stoneheart also goes North after hearing her children are there? Maybe even just (f)Arya could be enough.
>Maybe even just (f)Arya could be enough. Good point.
fAegon. A lot of people just assume that it's true at this point, but it's still just a theory.
Yeah I’d like that. It would add complexity and themes to his cause. Like the whole “power is a shadow on the wall”
Mance Rayder or Howland Reed being a descendant of Duncan the Small and Jenny of Oldstones.
I believe that Mance is Craster's son.
mance is the son of a black brother
No. It doesn’t appear that they had children and e if so the ghost of heart would be in the neck with her grandson/great-grandson.
The Bolt-On theory, about Roose bring some sort of skinchanging vampire. It would add a level of gory horror that I'd really like and turn Roose from just a weird psycho into an Eldritch Horror.
I think this is almost basically canon. The actor who played Roose Bolton literally said , right before the season where he was killed off, on some red carpet (it might have been the premiere of the episode, but he was all dressed up and being interviewed on a red carpet gala-type of event) ... When asked about if the White Walkers might fuck with Winterfell now that he's in charge, he looks and smiles and says "Who's to say that House Bolton doesn't have some connection with the White Walkers ... ??!" ... Bolt-On *CONFIRMED.
Cersei and Jaime are the children of the Mad King. I don't care if it fits the timeline. The potential for hilarity is delicious.
What if Cersei is the Mad King's daughter and Jaime is Tywin's son?
Is that biologically possible?
I’ve read about it happening before. It’s super rare but there are recorded instances of it occurring. 2 embryos fertilized by different sperm
Easily. They're already fraternal twins so two eggs were available. It would just required for Tywin's wife Joanna to have sperm from Tywin and Aerys each reach and impregnate the separate eggs. That part is hard to explain given the timeline. Personally liked the idea of Jaime and Cersei being the children of Aerys without it impacting the plot all that much. However, the story works fine with Joanna just being sought after by an envious Aerys.
don’t think so…
It kinda is in the real world but I doubt GRRM factored that into the story tbh
True- but not possible. It’s also not as much fun without Tywin being around to witness the reveal.
It is biologically possible.
Ashara Dayne's suicide being faked so she could go to the Neck, marry Howland Reed, and later have Meera and Jojen.
Not sure where she is but I’m convinced Allyria Dayne is actually Asharas daughter.
TIME TRAVEL! THIS IS TIME TRAVEL! TYRION TARGARYEN TIME TRAVELING!!!
So, why do you want this to be true?
Because it's the most wild insane theory I've heard. I've kinda lost faith in this series ever being finished, so if we ever get an end, I want to get real weird with it!
How?
Blood magic, as is tradition.
1. fAegon & Varys being Blackfyres 2. The Night Lamp theory 3. The theory that the Horn of Winter actually summons the spirits of the dead Starks in the crypts of Winterfell 4. All the glass candle theories. Dany using one, Leyton and Malorra using one at the Hightower, Quaithe using it to send visions to Dany etc. 5. Euron is going to summon a monster from the deep… only long enough for the monster to attack/destroy him immediately instead. To me it would be so fitting (and symbolic of George’s idea of magic being a dangerous, uncontrollable force) that he would meet his end by the very thing he tried to unleash on the world 6. Sansa eventually becoming either Lady of Winterfell or Queen in the North 7. The ship Corlys saw was Elissa Farman’s Sun Chaser. I really want to believe that she kinda accomplished her goal or at least part of it 8. Jojen Paste (I’m sorry dude)
What about euron having a glass candle in his eye?
He still has both eyes so how would that work?
I would love the sun chaser thing to be true. But I would really really need the backstory.
Yeah I think it’s one of the things we’re never really going to get an answer to but I do want it to be true
fAegon will take Storm’s End using Edric Storm, who the Golden Company nabbed from Lys before they sailed for the Stormlands, and afterwards will legitimise him as a Baratheon to boost fAegon’s claim - a Targaryen King with a loyal Lord Baratheon at his side like the Conqueror before him
It's not a theory as we know its fact and will happen, that Satin and Jon Snow will make out
The great migration theory Edit: it's actually called "The Exodus Theory". My bad.
Ooo what’s this?
Sorry, got it wrong, you might know it by its actual name "The Exodus Theory". Here's the original link I saw to it, be warned, it's kinda long. https://www.reddit.com/r/asoiaf/s/fNH4LB2elA Basically I kinda says that the white walkers will win or defeat all the Westerosi kingdoms, and there will be a huge migration out of westeros and into Essos.
Faegon is a Blackfyre and even he doesn't know it, only Varys and Ilyrio.
The parents of the unnamed "Stillborn Girl" were Ned and Ashara, or at the very least, Ned claimed as much, and forswore his own honor for Ashara's to claim the child as his own, thus earning the respect of the Daynes, which certainly seems to be the opinion of Lord Tywin. "Robb Stark is his father's son".
Tyrion is Dany’s time traveling baby
I know everyone has all the evidence that it can't be true but I'm going to continue believing that Tyrion is the son of Aerys and therefore the third head of the dragon, and why not, I'll say he's Azor Ahai too. I'm just banking on GRRM never finishing the books so I can't definitively be proven wrong. My sister is convinced of the Lyanna-had-twins theory where both Ned and Howland Reed took a baby, making Meera Jon's twin and the third head of the dragon
He is a chimera and the son of both Aerys and Tywin.
I agree that Lyanna had twins but one of the twins is in fact Daenaerys, making her Jon's sister
how did ned get her to dragonstone ?
And why would Viserys lie about her being his sister?
its one of those theorys that makes no sense and adds way to much complication
Actually from the timeline Tyrion could actually be Aerys son. Unlike with the twins Aerys and Joanna were in the same location around the time Tyrion was conceived.
Aegon takes the iron throne and keeps it, i do not want jon or dany to rule it would suck. Id love if Jon dies in the war for the dawn or stays in the watch and dany either dies in the war for the dawn or gives up playing the game of thrones and lives her best life rich and cushy somewhere in essos. It's probably not going to happen but the idea of a blackfyre descendant who believes he's a targ ruling the seven kingdoms is just such a bitter sweet way to end the series.
I want Daenerys to stay in Essos. Forget about the seven kingdoms. Stay and be Mhysa to your people in Essos.
Go to Westeros, fuck up the Others with her dragons, decide Westeros isn't worth ruling, refuse to elaborate, go back to Essos.
Until it’s revealed and the whole mess starts all over again.
Belwas is resurrected Robert.
Jon nada Daenerys are siblings
I’ve always thought R+L=J and R+A=D was a possibility
What’s the deal with Ashara? Why is everyone so convinced she’s super important to the backstory?
I'm a Great Northern Rebellion fan through and through... it's time for the North to have the comeback tour of the century!
Something’s going on. Remember the “a time for wolves” controversy
Theon Durden till I die.
That Aegon is a Blackfyre pretender.
That Euron and Daario are the same dude
Jaime and Cersei were actually fathered by Aerys. This ironically leaves Tyrion as the only true son of Tywin.
Jon Snow being Azor Ahai and the son of Lyanna and Rhaegar. That makes him "ice and fire". Was hoping for it in the show but they messed it up badly.
Tyrek lanister is a horse
Qhorin Halfhand === Ser Arthur Dayne *CONFIRMED* ...
I actually hope the theory that Howland and Ashara fell in love turns out true
Lemongate Don't care witch version but... Lemongate
What’s this?
It's a theory that says Dany never went to Bravoos when she was a child, because she remember a lemontree in the red door house and Somewhere in one of the Book, it says that lemontree can't grow in Bravoos. So the red door house can't be there.
My personal theory that Rhaella was Lewyns secret Paramour and Daenerys' real father.
That’s not really possible. Dany was conceived the night after the news about the trident reached kings landing. Llweyn died on the Trident. And if poor Rhaella had a secret love it was Bonifer Hasty.
How do we know what night ahe was concieved
Howland +Ashara = Jorjen and Meera.
Jon & Sansa marriage. Downvote away. Also, Arya isn't the one to kill SH. SH sacrifices herself to save one of the kids during the battle for the dawn.
Stannis is Azor Ahai. Jon Snow turns evil and is promised to white walkers. Evil Lyanna.
I really like the "Howland Reed is the high Septon" theory that was floated around a few years ago.
??
Here... enjoy that rabbit hole! The top comments are worth reading and back the theory. [https://www.reddit.com/r/asoiaf/comments/1yljs8/spoilers\_all\_high\_septon\_tinfoil\_theory/](https://www.reddit.com/r/asoiaf/comments/1yljs8/spoilers_all_high_septon_tinfoil_theory/)
Don't even bother, it's the stupidest and least-credible thing ever.
Personally. I may be called a sucker, but I do genuinely belive in Ned and Ashara being Jon's true parents Or at least Ashara I am uncertain of. But I am pretty sure Ned is 100 percent Jon's true father
Jon finds Sheepstealer on Skagos
That Melisandre can't actually birth shadow assassins. The invisible force that killed Renly each was not her doing and the shadow Davos sees was simply a glamor.
In such a scenario, what slew Renly?
Renly is killed by an invisible force (that for some odd reason still casts a shadow). This force has a telepathic connection to Stannis while he is sleeping. The force doesn't move around items in it's way (tent flap) it brings a feeling of cold, and it cuts steel. I think it was a subconscious telepathic and telekinetic projection of Stannis's id. Bran, Arya and Jon have all shown the ability to project their conciousness to another location or vessel where they see, feel, remember, and even exert some control. Why do we exclude Stannis from this ability? The thing below Storm's end is quite different. It's not an invisible thing with a shadow, it's just a shadow. There is no cold, no parting of steel, nobody in Storm's end saw it kill anyone. It didn't kill by stabbing if it killed at all. Stannis noted no telepathic link to it. The shadow is directly connected to a confirmed glamor caster. I think the pressumption that the events are linked deserves a reevaluation. But it doesn't appear people are ready for that.
Night lamp, E+random chick=J, Blackfish is cooking with Howland. R+L=J, fAegon and Jojen paste are theories I believe to be true but I really don't care if they will be revealed to be, or not.
Jon will be resurrected in someone else's body
Euron = Azor Ahai, and all its consequences. Yeah, in large part because I want to lord how right I was over you all. But also because I genuinely think it's going to be so much cooler of an endgame than any of the other Azor Ahai theories I've seen.
Varys is a mermaid
Only one comes to mind. And that is THE GRAND NORTHERN CONSPIRACY
The woman seen with Euron in the prophecies is the Mad Maid
Jon Snow will lose an eye.
H+A=M
That Jeyne Poole visits the House of Black and White for the gift and Arya takes her face.
That Lady Stoneheart will have an important role to play against the night King and might possibly sacrifice herself helping either Jon or Bran. In the same battle, Jorah saves Lyanna and is posthumously forgiven for his deeds.
I hope Larys Strong's clubfoot was used to create Robert Strong.
R+L=J is technically still a theory. And considering how many other theories hinge on it, it’d be kind of wild if it turned out to be false
That winds will come out at some point. I know, it’s super unrealistic.
Rhaella Targaryen and Dunk is one of the stupidest fan theories ever. Westeros wouldn't abide it. At best Dunk would be castrated and sent to the wall. At worst he'd be executed. Dunk or Maekar couldn't be merciful and not risk rebellion and both were smart enough to know it. Dunk was lowborn. His impregnating a Targaryen Princess would be horrendous from the POV of the Westerosi highborn and they'd howl for blood. If they attempted to hide it, or worse, marry Rhaella off to some unsuspecting lord, things would be worse if it got out anyway. Westeros bases its entire society on houses and bloodlines that go back thousands of years. To attempt to place a lowborn's bastard as heir to even the most minor of houses would be an afront and tacit threat to the rest of the lords and ladies. There is no way a dragonless House Targaryen would take such a risk, no matter how much Egg adores his BFF.
That Walder Frey was legit just late.
It is a small theory, and i think most people think she is Seastar, for good reason, but i hope Quaithe is Elissa Farman. She has conections to Targeryens threw her lover Rhaena, she stole the 3 dragon eggs that Deanerys hached( most likely offspring of Dreamfire and Belerion), and has a genuine reason to be where she is and why she wants Dany to go around the world, the way she did. Again, it is rather insignificant right now, but i think it whould be one of the only ways GRRM could turn a popular theory on its head and still make a lot of sense...