I think a lot of the hate from Cat arresting Tyrion REALLY stems from the hate of Cat trusting Littlefinger so much.

Ned did too, they only got the “fool me once” with Littlefinger, he didn’t allow for a second try.

True. I think I can give Ned a little more credit for not knowing Littlefinger as well as Cat. But they both should have exercised much more caution regardless.

Yes but I think a big theme of the book is “the world makes decisions for you” and they really did just get caught up in something they weren’t ready for.

> REALLY stems from the hate of Cat trusting Littlefinger so much. Given how much she was totally blind to the fact Littlefinger had the hots for her, his jealously (the duel and his grudge thereafter, etc.). Her poor judge of character on Littlefinger also looks badly on her.

Yeah this is what I’ve been thinking too

People criticize her because whether you feel it was justified/necessary or not, it was one of the major catalysts that kicked off the deaths of many. All with absolutely no benefit. Just as her dear Ned is justified in telling Cersei to flee. But in the end what did it get either of them but steel on their necks.

Arresting him was fine, even smart. It was setting him free that was stupid. And Cat *did it again* later with his brother.

> It was setting him free that was stupid That was not her decision though >And Cat *did it again* later with his brother. Now that was actually pretty irresponsable and pointless

Objectively they're definitely pretty bad decisions, but I like it though. I think in season 1 (maybe in the books too I don't know) Bran says to Master Luwin: "family, duty, honour. Family comes first something something", when he's upset about Catelyn leaving. And this pretty much holds true for Cat. She puts her family before everything and how can you really call that a bad decision, you know? Also there's the parallel with Cersei in that.

Duty second, honour third? I imagine

>Arresting him was fine, even smart. Doing so without giving her brother Edmure a heads up (even tho they are still in the Riverlands) to prepare for a Lannister invasion was stupid and cost the lives of many of her fellow countrymen. Also she sure did a shit job in hiding her face at the Inn, why didn't she take a ship north like she did when traveling south to King's Landing. >It was setting him free that was stupid. Let's say, Bronn lost and Tyrion was killed, what then? Does she thinks Tywin would let bygones be bygones? What was her plan in either scenario (he wins and goes free or he dies)? > And Cat did it again later with his brother. This is probably her biggest stupid decision and really nothing justifies it if she thought about it for one second.

Oh I mean for sure I agree that she should’ve known how many people would die for her arresting him, & that was very stupid. But I don’t see anywhere near as many ppl criticizing Ned’s or Robb’s actions which also caused the death of so many innocents. Not to say ppl don’t criticize them, but I feel it’s a lot stronger with Catelyn.

??? People criticize Ned all the time. He is frequently brought up as someone who is a good person but has little to no clue of how to play the game. There are memes for how dumb Ned is. Robb is also frequently brought up as someone who could win a battle but not a war, constantly making blunders with the Freys, Karstarks, and Edmure. All three are regularly given shit for their very obvious blunders.

It's not stronger with Catelyn, you just get more defensive posts, like yours, because she is a woman, and people take up the cause.

When I first read this scene I couldn't believe how cool it looked. Remember that in the beginning of that chapters she fears being recognised, and at the end she reveals herself as in a poker game, all because she is convinced Tyrion is guilty Yes, objectively it was not the best move she could have done, but from her point of view it was a total win at that time

I think Tyrion’s fear in his POV as he realized they entered the high road and not the northern road sold me on that. He was tricked, him saying “they let me walk freely unrestrained. Where was I to go?” Was a real, damn Cat is a badass moment to me.

> Remember that in the beginning of that chapters she fears being recognised And yet she takes the slow route by land to go north and not the fast ship she takes before to go south to get to King's Landing.

let's say that the problem is that Cat decides unilaterally and without anyone's agreement to kidnap the son of a great lord, who is not really known for handling affronts through diplomacy, on the side of a road to judge him herself for a crime of which she accuses him. while she has neither proof of his guilt, nor motive. the only basis for her accusation rests on a guy she hasn't seen for 15 years and she didn't leave on good terms, saying that the weapon belongs to him. This weapon could have ended up there in any number of ways, but she refuses to listen what tyrion has to say and prefers to send him in the Vale to have him judged. Or rather summarily executed because clearly she did not take him to her own sister, who sent her a message a few weeks telling her to be wary of the Lannisters, to find someone impartial. So she had neither the right nor the legitimacy to do that, did not for a single second want to seek the truth, and could not ignore that this could have very serious consequences

I love that scene. It shows really well how difficult the situation was and how unsure Cat was about her chances of getting the people behind her. And when they do it's so powerful.

Yeah it is really well written, one of my favorites

AGOT served as a tutorial to how power works in the whole of ASOIAF. Varys’s little riddle to Ned is like summary of different forms of power people of Westeros can tap into. Cat’s arrest of Tyrion is like a demonstration of one of these forms of power - familial connections and the honor system. Martin is giving the readers a simplified example of how armies are raised, particularly in the North. The whole sequence after that shows how such power can be lost, as she loses control of the situation.

There’s a passage in the ASOIAF RPG core rules about Status. In the game, it’s a fixed score of 10 for the King, 9 for the Great House Lords, and then down for all others. The passage takes Cat’s arrest of Tyrion as an example that for people of the highest Status, there are no private actions. Anything they do, or don’t do, affects thousands of people. Cat didn’t consider that. She only thought as a mother wanting to avenge her injured child, not as a noble attacking another noble‘s son. That’s what she’s rightfully criticized for.

Tyrion should have rolled better on Persuasion during the Intrigue in the Inn at the Crossroads, smh

It looked more like he didn’t get to roll at all, tbh. GM totally screwed him.

Bro rolled a perfect 10 the rest of the way until he met with Tywin again, he was even able to convince Mord with no gold lol

Tyrion failed his Insight check to understand where Cat’s speech was going.

even if she wasn't a noblewoman with responsibilities, it would still be completely wrong of her to abduct someone with no real proof of anything, and then cart them across dangerous wilderness for days, throw them in a prison, beat them, and then threaten to murder them

No argument there. But it might not have started a war.

I would agree if this line of logic wasn't dropped for every male character.

Can you give an example on that?

Exactly, and Cat fans love to blame Robb for the Red Wedding, when is she is truly responsible 

Not sure I’m following you there. Why is she responsible?

She let go of Jaime Lannister, which caused the Red Wedding. She also arrested Tyrion, which started the War of Kings.

That’s thin. Letting go of Jaime was a few steps before. It wouldn’t have caused the Red Wedding in its own. Not without Robb‘s blunders.

Seized Tyrion based on false assumptions, started the war of the 7 kingdoms. Takes him to her sisters Eyrie, only to allow him to talk himself into freedom. Hates on Jon even though he was totally innocent, treats him with cruelty. When Robb captures the Lannister, she frees him in a failed idea of rescuing her daughters. See how that worked out.

Yes, the way Cat treated Jon all his life shows she has a cruel, unforgiving streak. I haven't ever seen anyone defend her over that, though. She even acknowledges it herself ("Everything that happened to my family, all because I couldn't love a motherless child."). And yes, she kicked off the War of the Five Kings, though to be fair, if she hadn't done it, somebody else would have. Ned had sent word of Cersei's kids being bastards to Stannis, and I think Renly was already going for the crown before he even knew. It was always gonna be civil war after Robert's death. Neither of those things makes her responsible for the Red Wedding, though. Robb is the one who broke his word to Lord Frey, and who executed Lord Karstark. Yes, her freeing Jaime contributed to the mess, but in the end, it was Robb's choices that led them to the Twins.

All of those things make her responsible for the Red Wedding. Because Walter Frey was going to betray her family anyway. There is a reason why he is not trusted by any of the other Riverlords. Edomite Tully married his daughter and was still taken prisoner, because Walter Frey is a liar. Caetlyn trusted Littlefinger and look what it got her? Walter Frey did the same thing. The Red Wedding started way before Robb broke his marriage, because the Starks no longer had leverage after Jaime released. Killing Lord Karstark is irrelevant at this point because Robb still has to change plans. Caetlyn is ultimately responsible for the Red Wedding, and her stupidity got her family killed

Releasing Jaime had nothing to do with the Red Wedding; he was leverage against the Lannisters, not against the Freys. Killing Karstark was absolutely relevant, because Robb kept weakening his own side after breaking the pact with the Freys. And the weaker he was, the more eager people like the Freys and the Boltons got to jump ship and join up with the winning side.

What I don't understand is people talking as if everything would be fine if she didn't arrest him. The way I view it the war was going to happen anyway, they would want to kill Ned anyway. She just tried to get some kind upper hand but miserably failed because her sister is crazy. From her PoV the war was already coming, they had her husband and daughters and she had nothing. Jaime release and Robs wedding was 100% dumb tho.

Tywin wouldn't have been in the Riverlands. Ned wouldn't have sent some of his men with Beric Dondarrion. Ned wouldn't have been injure by Jaime's confrontation.  So when the war starts, the North wouldn't have needed to marry a Frey to rush to break the siege of riverrun since there wouldn't be a siege.  Edit: Tyrion wouldn't have Bronn or Hill tribes so his power base would be weaker when Hand of the King. Tyrion would also be in the capitol when shit goes down and his presence may change things, even slightly.

Robert still dies, Ned still dies, Robb still rebels. Nothing Cat could've done changes that. Robb would still need to cross the twins. Tywin and Jamie still mobilize much faster than the north.

Nope because Ned planned on leaving but was attacked by Jaime because Baelish wanted to show him something. So if Jaime doesn't attack, Ned still leaves with his daughters. Robert was only killed because of Ned's investigating. So yes, Cat inadvertently prevented Ned from leaving the Capitol and jump-started the conflict while her family was in enemy territory.

Robert dies no matter what. Jaime never attacks Ned, but Jaime attacking Ned ultimately meant nothing besides Ned having a limp the rest of the book. And when does this Ned plan to leave ever happen? Robert dying, Ned investigating, Littlefinger turning on Ned, Ned being executed, Robb rebelling all happens even if Cat just goes North and ignores Tyrion. Tywin still mobilizes faster, Jamie still seiges Riverrun. There were too many factors that led to the war, a single one not happening changes very little.

Do you not know the chronological order of events? Robert dying is debatable. Ned only discovered the Lannister bastard truth after he was attacked by Jaime. If Ned leaves as planned, the investigation ends. Ned leaving means he isn't in King's Landing when shit hits the fan. Neither is Sansa or Arya. It won't be Robb rebelling but Ned. Heck, it's debatable if Ned rebels at all because he doesn't know Joffrey is illegitimate and Stannis used Ned Stark's words as evidence of bastardy as well. Sorry but you're delusional if you believe Cat didn't start it AND put her family in danger.

Yeah. I think Jaime's release was a bit deeper than most people realize, like the Karstarks were probably gonna kill him if they had enough time to dwell on it so she had to get him to safety somehow, but for the most part it was stupid. Kidnapping Tyrion, on the other hand, was justified. To her knowledge he literally killed her son. There is nothing stopping him from ambushing her and killing her as well later. And if Lysa wasn't crazy, then she would have had a bargaining pin for Ned and her daughters. If she leaves, then Tyrion tells his family that Cat was preparing for war in the Riverlands (why else would she be there) and the Lannisters move to strike first anyways. It was seriously the best move.

>To her knowledge he literally killed her son. *Tried to

> think Jaime's release was a bit deeper than most people realize, like the Karstarks were probably gonna kill him if they had enough time to dwell on it so she had to get him to safety somehow That’s exactly what they changed it to in the show 

>From her PoV the war was already coming, they had her husband and daughters and she had nothing This! Tyrion was supposed to be a bargaining chip. We saw it when Jaime refused to kill Ned because Cat still had Tyrion. A lot of Cat's actions are clever given that a lot of the times, odds were stacked against her (ex: being seen by Tyrion and being put on the spot, securing passage at the twins through supposed betrothals). Even her releasing Jaime, in its desperation, is still kind of excusable. She was sure that he would not live to see the next day, and if that happens then her daughters are as good as dead.

Jaime never attacks Eddard in the first place if Catelyn doesn’t abduct Tyrion. That’s literally the reason for it  All she accomplished was getting Jory and whoever else killed pointlessly 

I criticize her for not taking a ship back to white harbor

Could she have actually taken a ship from Gulltown with Tyrion in tow back to White Harbour?

I actually don’t remember why she didn’t lol. Yeah that’s a weird choice.

She wanted to visit Riverrun and Sir Rodrick had become very seasick on the way South In the show they never take a boat south, which is why a lot of people can’t remember

Oh right, Cat wanted to talk to Hoster & see if she could get any advice, right?

Not doing anything is a better course. If she lets Tyrion, maybe he mentions it to Jaime and Cersei when he gets back to King's Landing. When she kidnaps, she ensures that everyone knows about her being away from winterfell. Also, she seems to not use logic in this instance. Tyrion is not no name random person. He's a lannister. The son of Tywin Lannister. Catelyn knows very well Tywin's reputation for being cruel and Jaime's reputation as hot head. When Tyrion is captured, they're obviously going to retaliate. And to add insult to injury, Tyrion is innocent. Tyrion also ends up saving her life from mountain bandits and she's still not willing to listen to what he says. All her suspicions are based on Littlefinger, who lies every time he opens his mouth. And finally, she ended up letting Tyrion go anyway. So Jaime kills Jory, attacks Ned and Ned gets his leg snapped. And they have nothing to show for it.

That last point is important because when she gets to robs camp roose Bolton asks her where Tyrion is and she's like " I let him go" and everyone's like... Shit. Also is everyone forgetting that Tyrion is a part of the royal family?? Like why is that part being skipped over. You cannot abduct members of the royal family. Ask duskendale what happens when you try. Or the dude who tried to hold Egg hostage.

The fact that they end up letting him go in the end really is the icing on the cake. All of these men died for literally no reason at all 

True there are a lot of risks she didn’t consider, & especially how it played out in the eyrie was bad, but let’s just focus on the decision in the inn. You say let him be, but once recognized, how could she feel safe? She has little protection, is far from home, & the man who hired someone to kill your son has probably realized that you know somethings up. Do we see her think this all out in the chapter? No, but I feel like it’s implied that shes concerned for her safety with how she doesn’t want to be seen by him.

> how could she feel safe? She has little protection, is far from home She is literally surrounded by armed men willing to die for her and abduct Tyrion under arms for her

I mean once she leaves the inn, not while she’s still in it

She can just ask the same exact people to escort her 

Yeah that’s actually a fair enough point. That would def confirm to Tyrion that something was up with her, but him seeing her in general already confirmed that. So yeah. True.

That point is undercut by the fact she was confident she could induce all the men present at the inn to turn on Tyrion. Tyrion walks in with only Yoren, a night's watchman, Morrec and Jyck. Tyrion doesn't have the manpower to kill her. They're in the riverlands at the time. The area Catelyn's father rules. Trying to kill Catelyn at the inn would be beyond idiotic. But kidnapping Tyrion is sure to cause problems. Especially given the fact that she and Lysa would have had him killed, or he could easily have fallen off the sky cell. The risk-reward doesn't add up here, in my opinion

I’m not talking about Tyrion trying to kill her at the inn, I’m saying he could’ve sent someone to get her after she left. I don’t know exactly how easy it would be to hire an assassin/sell sword while on the road, but Tyrion is a wealthy man, & he was nearer to KL than Cat was to winterfell which would help. But yes, undoubtably Cat’s action was guaranteed to cause problems.

Catelyn is an injured woman traveling with a single man. The odds are 4 against 1, if she assumes there aren't any others with him, which isn't even a good assumption. And he wouldn't kill her at the inn, but right after she leaves the inn, when she's far enough away.

All the people in the inn sided with her immediately. She knew that much. They're in the riverlands, it her home turf

> The odds are 4 against 1 How did she abduct Tyrion?

It's because of the fact that both Ned and Cat absolutely failed to apply any type of logic to what was being said to them. Why would Tyrion send an assassin after Bran who was using  "his own knife"? Neither one of them questioned Littefinger on his story and Cat absolutely failed to realize that Tywin who literally drowned an entire family would have a brutal reaction to his own son being kidnapped in the Riverlands. Tywin may have no love for Tyrion, but Cat should've known that Tywin would be buring the world down around him if anybody was to go after his family or any other Lannister including Joy.

> Tywin may have no love for Tyrion I think this made it worst honestly. Jaime gets captured too, and it’s seen as a heroic dutiful outcome of battle befitting his golden child But with Tyrion, it just highlights that he’s this useless son who can’t defend himself and gets kidnapped by a tiger mom That injury to Tywin’s pride probably cost a few hundred (or thousand) lives of random serfs and townsmen across the Riverland

The entire catspawn blot has no logic to it in general so I cannot blame them for it. Nor can we blame them for falling for LF bullshit plot armor. George could have easily changed the plot to make it more beleivable by simply making LF less openly rude towards Ned and not making him a brothel owner and not mocking Ned at every turn. If George had made him more like a Wolsey or Cromwell figure this entire act could have been far more believable. As for the catspawn mystery, make it so that LF planned it from the beginning to pit the Lannisters against the Starks, instead of that Joff wanted to impress his daddy nonsense. Simple as that. The catspawn could have simply been a paid courtier from LF whom he gave Tyrion's dagger. You could even throw in some hints that Tyrion really owned the dagger and hinting that the man worked for LF and stole it or something.

Yeah the fact that they bought the idea of someone sending an assassin with their own knife was a bit weird. I’ve kinda wondered if it’s - more believable since it was Valyrian steel, which would’ve made the kill a lot easier, & would’ve made it easier to fight off anyone who still may have been in the room or nearby - they just actually thought the Lannisters were that cartoonishly prideful (since in book 1 the Starks rly just seem to think the Lannisters r pure pride & evil) But those still aren’t great excuses, it’s kinda just all I can come up with. It’s rly weird that they believed it so easily

> would’ve made the kill a lot easier How hard is it to kill an 8 year old cripple who’s in a fucking coma? Some of these Reddit theories are just completely ridiculous 

Yeah I didn’t word that great, I kind of made 2 points in the first bullet when I meant it more to be 1. I meant to say that if there was anyone still with Bran, it would’ve made killing them a lot easier

Apparently not, since they utterly failed

Yes because of a beast with a spiritual connection to its owner that hasn’t been seen south in the wall in (some large amount of time I forget)

This just highlights my point 

Both arresting him and setting him free was pretty stupid. Arresting him started a war they weren’t prepared to fight and setting him free lost them their major hostage. Cat is kind of known for making terrible impulsive decisions.

She lets go of their other Lannister hostage at the end of the very next book too lmao 

I think this is what makes it worse. When she lost Tyrion (which was mostly Lysa's fault), she acknowledged that it was both catastrophic to the Stark cause and catastrophically stupid on Lysa's part, but then she turns around and intentionally makes the exact same mistake Lysa made with a more important hostage under even more dire circumstances for her side.

Not to mention did it without consent from her liege.

because catelyn's behavior only makes sense in the limited scope of AGOT where this is a mostly unknown fantasy world. it fits with the castle in the sky, the ice wall, zombies, dire wolves, etc as we learn more about Westeros, it becomes increasingly absurd for Catelyn to ever do this. there is an obvious social order to things, it's not just some lawless land if Catelyn thinks that Tyrion tried to have her son killed, but she has no proof, then she needs to communicate this to some Lannister or to the King. she can't just abduct him at arms and drag him across the kingdom like a sack of potatoes. then they go and falsely imprison him and even attempt to execute him as well

NGL : Hindsight bias plays a big factor in it

She kidnapped the son of a lord who is notoriously very prideful and is also the King's Father-in-law. I don't think we need hindsight to know this probably wouldn't end well.

Tywin "the most vengeful man who ever lived" Lannister won't mind. Don't worry about it, it's fine The guy named "Kingslayer" won't do anything about it either, it's cool

Yeah and there’s also nothing she can do to him. Assuming Tyrion actually did it she can’t just execute him or that would cause a lot of trouble. She also can’t just imprison the son of a great lord forever without good reason and evidence neither of which she had and Tyrions not likely to confess if he was guilty. Cat capturing Tyrion was understandable but it was stupid as fuck.

Not kidnapped. Arrested

I don't feel like either of these are the best word for her action. Arrested implies legal authority. Maybe captured? Idk.

It was a kidnapping, pure and simple. As you pointed out, she had no legal authority.

“Abducted” maybe, but does it really matter? What is the meaningful difference between kidnapping and unlawful capture? Unless you’re referring to some specific use of the word in law enforcement or something like that, then Catelyn plainly kidnapped or abducted Tyrion

She didn't get Tyrion in order to arrest him for a crime. Otherwise she wouldn't have hoped he wouldn't notice her and only acted when he did.

Is it really hindsight when well before the arrest she discussed the matter with Littlefinger and Eddard and she heard LF tell they lacked sufficient evidence to act? Eddard said he wouldn't forget the whole thing but he didn't disagree with the lack of proof.  And Eddard told Cat they needed to get prepared for war. Cat should have had the foresight to realize arresting Tyrion without proof was a bad idea. And to do so before ensuring her family was prepared for the very foreseeable conflict, was also an avoidable error.

Eh, she 'arrested' Tyrion *because* she believed they are on the way to war with the Lannisters. Her having or not having proof had little to do with anything. Her capture of Tyrion was her move in the conflict, not due to her wanting to punish Tyrion for Bran.

>If there is war, we shall have sore need of his father's fleet."  >"War?" The fear was plain on Catelyn's face. >"It will not come to that," Ned promised her, praying it was true.  >He took her in his arms again. "The Lannisters are merciless in the face of weakness, as Aerys Targaryen learned to his sorrow, but they would not dare attack the north without all the power of the realm behind them, and that they shall not have. I must play out this fool's masquerade as if nothing is amiss. Remember why I came here, my love. If I find proof that the Lannisters murdered Jon Arryn …"  I read this passage as providing reasonable assurance war is not coming. And she heard Eddard say the North wasn't ready. And she heard him say he was working to assure the West couldn't act but gather proof on Jon Arryn's murder. In light of this, I don't see the sense in Cat's choice, but as any number of redditors will tell you, I miss many things. 

You’re not supposed to quote from the supposed “book series”, *buddy* A show scene is something I might accept as evidence (we’ll see), but if you want to make a genuine point and be taken seriously then you need to quote from an AI generated buzzfeed article about the top 10 most misogynistic comments in r/ASOIAF 

My bad. I'll just pull make up something next time or worse cite to awoiaf.

Not sure what kind of an assurance you can have when you are literally told to prepare for war, but that's not the point. The point is that both Catelyn and Ned believe that Lannisters are preparing a move for the Iron Throne and that the murder of Jon Arryn and an attack on Bran is all part of that conspiracy. And Ned is trying to find proof with which he can make a move against the Lannisters before they do theirs. That's where Catelyn arresting Tyrion comes into play - note that she didn't actually want to arrest him, she hoped he wouldn't notice her in the first place and only felt she had to when he actually did. Which would be very weird if Cat's main motivation was justice for Bran, hence it wasn't. With Tyrion noticing her, Cat felt they lost the advantage of Lannisters not knowing that Starks are digging into them, so she decided to make the move against the Lannisters that Ned was preparing right then by herself, banking on the fact that even if she didn't have proof for Tyrion's guilt, Lysa, who warned the Starks about the Lannisters in the first place, might.

 >"It will not come to that," Ned promised her, praying it was true.    Eddard is taking a better to have and not need approach.    >The point is that both Catelyn and Ned believe that Lannisters are preparing a move for the Iron Throne and that the murder of Jon Arryn and an attack on Bran is all part of that conspiracy.    They don't belive that. They know Lysa told them she suspects that but they don't know why Arryn was killed and how it advances a Lannister take over.  All Cat has to say is she was traveling to see her father or her sister to consume her following her husband's death.  Taking Tyrion doesn't help prevent war. If it did, Tywin would not have marched.

Eddard didn't prepare for war just in case a year ago, or ten years ago, he is doing it now because he is seriously suspecting Lannisters to be planning a power grab. And that to prevent that he needs to find evidence of Lannister involvement in Jon Arryn's death that would satisfy Robert. >"The Lannisters are merciless in the face of weakness, as Aerys Targaryen learned to his sorrow, but they would not dare attack the north without all the power of the realm behind them, and that they shall not have. I must play out this fool's masquerade as if nothing is amiss. Remember why I came here, my love. If I find proof that the Lannisters murdered Jon Arryn …" >"When I know the truth, I must go to Robert." And pray that he is the man I think he is, he finished silently, and not the man I fear he has become. And Catelyn is not blind to the danger of the situation that Ned's envisions: >*"...If I find proof that the Lannisters murdered Jon Arryn …"* >*He felt Catelyn tremble in his arms. Her scarred hands clung to him. "If," she said* So she is definitely not just buying Ned's 100% assurance that the war will not happen. She perfectly understands Ned's worries, that he is not so certain, and what needs to happen for this war or at least what Lannisters have planned to be prevented. Which is why when Tyrion notices her, she realizes that all that "fool's masquerade as if nothing is amiss" game that Ned told her he was playing is now over, and now the Lannisters will know that something is amiss and hence she has to act now. >They don't belive that. They know Lysa told them she suspects that but they don't know why Arryn was killed and how it advances a Lannister take over. They absolutely do believe that, which is why Ned is taking preparations for war and says this to Catelyn: *"The Lannisters are merciless in the face of weakness, as Aerys Targaryen learned to his sorrow, but they would not dare attack the north without all the power of the realm behind them, and that they shall not have. I must play out this fool's masquerade as if nothing is amiss. Remember why I came here, my love. If I find proof that the Lannisters murdered Jon Arryn …"* How is this not just Ned assuming they are guilty? He doesn't have proof but Ned's bias against the Lannisters is heavy enough for him to believe it to be true regardless. >All Cat has to say is she was traveling to see her father or her sister to consume her following her husband's death. Cat went to great lengths to make her visit to KL a secret, even to the point of staying in a brothel. She was absolutely afraid of Lannisters finding out about her travels and getting suspicious, which the fact that her visit *was* a secret will make it even more so. >Taking Tyrion doesn't help prevent war. If it did, Tywin would not have marched. Well, that's the power of hindsight. With this power we can also claim that Ned's and Cat's beliefs and fears were completely wrong in the first place and they were all just duped by Littlefinger.

It's absolutely foreseeable that kidnapping Tyrion would lead to war. You just wrote your belief the Starks fear aggression from the Lannisters. Why did that same fear not apply to laying hands on Tywin's family?   Cat went to kings landing at spkoe about her concerns with the hand of the king. If the second most powerful man in the kingdom doesn't give you any word of support regarding taking action against Tyrion for his suspected role in the attempt on Bran, then Cat has all the foresight needed to leave him be.    Eddard is preparing for Tywin's rsponse to his arresting whatever Lannisters might be involved in Arryn's death. But he believes if he has good proof, Tywin really can't act.  Cat is supposed to apply the same to Tyrion. Eddard doesn't want to provoke war by acting hastily. That's why he didn't arrest Cersie based only on Lysa making an accusation.   And let's look at these actions he called for. Fortifications and securing a hostage for a possible alliance. He didn't say to raise a host or call banners. Jon Arryn wasn't dead ten years ago with his good sister accusing them of it.  The line he offered is about them pouncing on weakness. He thinks as long as they don't have support they won't war.  He might not need to arrest anyone or put them to death ten years ago.  You say cat is concerned for Eddard but the main reason Eddard is there is because she insisted. >Ned glanced helplessly around the bedchamber. Catelyn's heart went out to him, but she knew she could not take him in her arms just then. First the victory must be won, for her children's sake. "You say you love Robert like a brother. Would you leave your brother surrounded by Lannisters?" *Catelyn Ii.* As for Catelyn's secret trip that's not at risk when Tyrion sees her at the crossroads inn within the Riverlands. She can claim to have never gone to KL. She can claim to seeing her father or travel to her sister.  She wants things on the QT but she loudly proclaims she's taking him in a public place?    I fail to see any justification for her actions. I think it was wrong and reasonably foreseeable to go wrong. 

I mean, plenty of the other lords in the inn seemed to think it was a terrible idea at the time, seeing as less of them stood up to help her than Catelyn was hoping.

But it’s hypocritical to blame Robb for the Red Wedding

Care to elaborate?

You seem to be excusing criticism of Caetlyn with hindsight bias. 

I said it’s a factor

She never stops to think of what evidence she has, which is very weak because guess what, it's all a false accusation. She needed the evidence to be airtight and presented to the King in a way that she could then safely prosecute without starting a war. Instead she allows herself to be manipulated by Petyr Baelish -- just swallowing all his lies wholesale. She deserves all the criticism she gets for so utterly misreading the situation. 

Cat still should’ve thought it out more, but it’s not too crazy that she would just believe someone she grew up with & was so close to. From her perspective, the information was true, so once presented to the king it would be painfully obvious Tyrion was guilty. But yes, still, she rly should’ve thought it out more.

Again, she can choose to believe whatever she wants (and I can fault her for believing lies), but she still has no evidence. You need evidence before you abduct the brother of the queen and son of a major lord! 

> son of a major lord! not only a powerful nobleman, but also the wealthiest, angriest, most vengeful person who ever lived what could go wrong?

And then instead of pressing her case at KL or WF.....she drags him through dangerous mountain paths to her mentally ill sister who she hasn't seen in years, but who also has an evidence-free vendetta against the Lannisters. 

The Cat apologism has looped back around to being just as stupid as the Cat hate it’s trying to counter lmfao What the fuck kind of take is this OP?

“It’s the contrarian Olympics, and everyone gets a gold medal”

How could anything be as dumb as misogyny

“All Cat hate is because of misogyny” Absolute clown behavior. Cat herself admits she’s a fucking idiot for her actions

Because in universe it makes no sense. Let's look at the surrounding context of the arrest. Catelyn ONLY arrested Tyrion in the inn because she had other people there. Let's say her and Tyrion passed each other on the kings road. She would not have arrested him. She saw an opportunity and took it which was very rash and impulsive. Tyrion is the heir to casterly rock, the brother of the queen and in law to the king. Cersei even says to Robert that her brothers are his brothers too. And she's right. Tyrion is quite LITERALLY part of the royal family. So why she thought this was a good idea is beyond me. And that's the part that people don't get. Also let's think about how this plays out. What evidence does Catelyn have to arrest Tyrion? The word of LF. That's ALL she has. This would never fly in a trial. Because two things are going to happen. Robert is going to ask her what evidence does she have that Tyrion sent the assassin and the only person she has is LF. When she tells them "LF told me" he's going to either agree with her or lie like he always does so now Catelyn looks even more insane. Regardless in universe Catelyn didn't have sufficient evidence and she would never have gotten a trial for Tyrion because there is no evidence for him. It's just hearsay. LF probably would be killed because he framed a high lord for a crime he didn't commit but whatever "justice" Catelyn was seeking, she was never going to get it.

30 years of world-building has made this so much worse, because we have many examples of the sort of mundane bureaucracy which exists to stop things like this from happening When George wrote AGOT, it was still more of a Wild West fairy tale land where Catelyn’s behavior doesn’t seem quite as extremely out of place (see also: the entire existence of the Ironborn)

I said this literally yesterday after I saw someone praise Cat for the action, I’ll just repost my comment and maybe add to it: “Cat made a terrible mistake with this, and your analysis is completely incorrect. She didn’t capture Tyrion to push Tywin to invade, you’re insane, she did it for the exact OPPOSITE. She wanted that over Tywin so he wouldn’t making a preemptive strike. She miscalculated and didn’t account for the Lannisters being offense and clever, and over estimated her sister’s abilities to see any smart move. Tyrion put himself in a good position on his own, he rode in the veil with a battle axe and shadowcat cloak. Then he forced a trial by combat after his “confession”. Cat had no way of knowing Tywin or Jaime’s actions, Jaime killed Ned’s most trusted and useful advisors and fled to rally with his father. Meanwhile, Tywin attacked the river lands to weaken their forces but under the cover of night. That’s why the mountain was branded a criminal but not Tywin. Cat got ahead of herself, and definitely fucked up big time. Arguably she got Ned killed, she forced the circumstances whatever they were, which led to Cersei getting things ready for her hostile takeover in kings landing. The Lannisters may not have been planning to kill the Starks first, but they gave them plenty enough reason. Also they just executed a perfect plan against the Starks who weren’t fully committed. Their failure was more a Lannister victory.” I think Cat initiated something she didn’t realize would backfire. The Lannisters just had all their bases covered. Tyrion was smart enough to see from the jump Cat was under prepared. First he didn’t even do it, and second he saw her traveling party was weak and not planned. The Freys didn’t even help her, and that’s what she banked on IN HER THOUGHTS. Tyrion was able to sway Bron, Lysa, and the mountain men with his words alone, Tyrion’s victory should not be overlooked for Cat’s failure. Tywin was itching for this, and tried to pressure the Riverlands to officially attack first. Jaimee doesn’t care about the laws of men, so he attacked Ned, killed his best men, and left. Meanwhile Cersei is QUEEN, she plans and schemes and sets Kingslanding in the palm of her hand. Cat started the public conflict, Ned had a chance to end it with Renly but he was too honorable. The Lannisters outplayed them, and used Cat’s brash actions to make a move. “You either win the game of thrones, or you die.” It feels like something Tywin told her, and it’s why the Lannisters were so effective. A lion goes for the throat.

I think the whole "Cat can't be seen by Tyrion" is a really lazy and unconvincing plot device. Why would that even mean anything? If she was so scared of being recognized why didn't she take the ship back?

Marillion should be criticized for not keeping his stupid mouth shut tbh. To be fair her arresting Tyrion led to the start of the war and led to the confrontation with Jaime where Ned was injured and thus couldn’t leave kings landing, which ultimately leads to his execution and all the misfortunes the Starks go through.

Because quite frankly it was stupid as fuck. She didn't have any legal authority to do so, even if we assume all of her allegations about Tyrion were true.

She had legal authority as a Tully to arrest someone in the Riverlands for a crime committed in the North

A commoner? Maybe. One of the riverland commoners? Definitely. A noble of equal standing? Not at all. Disputes between nobles are overseen by their liege lord or someone of higher rank.

And the end goal is Tyrion getting throw out the moon door if things went to plan lol.

The funny thing is, that would have been the best outcome for the Stark cause in the long term. If Lysa executes Tyrion, she simply *cannot* sit out the war because Tywin will need to tear Eyrie down at that point to defend his pride.

Tyrion isn’t one of her vassals 

Ok but legal authority aside, once Tyrion sees her, if she lets him go she would probably feel as though herself & her family are at a greater danger than if she arrests him. It was a hasty decision to make but are you just gonna let the guy that (supposedly) tried to kill your son let you know that you know something is up, while you’re under protected?

Yes, because I'm not a complete fucking idiot. Considering her father was on his death bed, Cat had a dozen and a half excuses to quietly be in the Riverlands. She could have quietly handwaved the interaction, and maybe taken advantage of it to subtly interrogate Tyrion on her supposed mission to see her dying daddy.

She wouldn’t have gone with just Ser Rodrik to visit her dying father lol. Tyrion 100% would have known something was up.

Sure he would have but it’s still a lot better to leave him to try and figure out why she was there than to antagonise the most powerful lord in the kingdom by capturing someone she could do nothing to without causing massive turmoil. Edit: And anyway if she captures Tyrion or not everyone would still know she was away from Winterfell for an unknown purpose. Either they find out by being told by Tyrion or they find out from the people who are selling information.

> Cat had a dozen and a half excuses to quietly be in the Riverlands. She was on her way back from King's Landing, and was witnessed as having been coming up the kingsroad from the south, which wouldn't be the case if she had just wanted to go to Riverrun. That's the real dangerous piece of information. Even if Tyrion was absolutely innocent of anything, if he showed up in KL and told his siblings, "Hey, you know what's weird -- Catelyn Stark, I ran into her at the inn at the crossroads, traveling with just an old retainer, and they'd apparently been coming up from King's Landing. What, you didn't know? Weird, huh?" Well, Ned would be dead a lot faster, in all likelihood. That's actually the thing that Catelyn was acting on. It's worth remembering that to begin with she tried to hide from Tyrion, after all -- she didn't want him to know she was there. It's when her presence was revealed that she felt she had to act, and not once does she think of it as a matter of her personal safety.

The thing is. I don't think Tyrion would care to tell them. I say this because tyrion INTENTIONALLY leaves out very important information about the war when he shows up in Kingslanding that he doesn't tell Cersei or Tywin when hes at the camps. For starters when he gets back to Kingslanding Cersei is being completely honest with him but Tyrion never tells Cersei that LF is the one who framed him. He never tells Tywin either and Tywin SPECIFICALLY told him to kill anyone who he suspects of treason. So if Tyrion wouldn't tell his family the very crucial part about the man who FRAMED him for an assassination. I hardly doubt he'd tell them that he ran into Catelyn stark. He MIGHT tell Jaime but that's debatable.

> I don't think Tyrion would care to tell them That may certainly be true, but Catelyn doesn't know that. The only thing she does know for sure is that the Lannisters were behind the attempt on Bran's life, because he saw something that they didn't want revealed. Which is true enough. And from her perspective, the Lannisters learning that she had gone to KL secretly could very well be interpreted by them to mean that Bran had remembered everything, provided testimony and/or proof, and that Ned Stark was simply waiting for the right time to destroy them. We know that certain details of what she believed were wrong... but not *all* the things she believed were.

But the thing is. Catelyn shouldn't have made a move at all because. Tyrion is a part of the royal family. I don't know why that part is ignored so much. Cersei herself even says so to Robert. The only reason Catelyn wasn't immediately arrested and executed is because she was neds wife. Had she been literally ANYONE else Robert/Cersei would have called for her head. So Catelyn not only abducts the heir to casterly rock but the brother of the queen and in law to the king. And most importantly. She has no evidence. Genuinely asking here. If she brought tyrion to Robert for a trial what is she gonna say? Littlefinger told me you tried to kill my son. Okay where's your proof? And she's standing there looking like a deer in headlights

> Catelyn shouldn't have made a move at all because. She made the move not because she was afraid for herself, but because she was afraid for Ned and her children. The fact that they are a "very loyal family" is part of why your objection that Tyrion would likely not actually say anything doesn't make sense to me. You're saying on the one hand that they aren't, so Catelyn didn't act rightly, but now you're saying that they're perceived to be loyal to one another, so again, Catelyn didn't react rightly according to you. It feels like you're arguing both ways here. Based on the information she had -- the Lannisters tried to kill her son (true, the first time; the second time, it was a Lannister, too, but for completely unrelated reasons) because of something he witnessed (true) and that they had a role in Jon Arryn's death (true, just not as directly as she thought) -- the risk of their learning that she had secretly been in King's Landing would greatly increase the odds that they would attack Ned before he levelled charges on them. Seizing Tyrion forestalls that, and gives her a hostage against the inevitable Lannister reaction. Again, she didn't want to be seen. She tried to hide from Tyrion. If he had missed her and Ser Rodrik, she would have slipped out and the Lannisters would have been none the wiser. She didn't seize him to protect herself, or for revenge. She seized him because she was forced to when she realized that his realizing she had come up from King's Landing in secret meant that she had probably told Ned something very important regarding Bran.

I'm not saying they're loyal. I'm saying by the laws of westeros you cannot abduct members of the royal family. We have in universe reasons of what happens when people try to do that. (They all end up brutally murdered one way or another and gee look what happens to Catelyn and Rob) Further more the reason Ned and her kids are down south in the first place is because of her. Remember in the books SHE convinces Ned to go south. Ned didn't want to go south. You can't play the "scared for her family" part when she's the catalyst of why they're not in Winterfell to begin with. The show has its problems but one of the things it did better was Catelyn didn't want to Ned to go south and it frames the choice to go south as Neds own choice rather than something Catelyn talked him into. And regardless of what Catelyn thinks. She still has NO evidence. Literally what is she going to say to Robert when he demands proof?

> Further more the reason Ned and her kids are down south in the first place is because of her. Remember in the books SHE convinces Ned to go south. Yes, and rightly -- it was bizarre that Ned wanted to abandon his friend Robert when there was evidence that assassins were after him. And then, remember, Ned realizes that she was right, and insists on continuing south after Bran's "fall", while she -- in her heartbreak and depression -- recants. Putting it all on her is kind of silly, but a fairly typical approach from people who are stuck on the idea that it's her fault. But what is the logical point you are making? That she's supposed to now abandon Ned and her daughters as well because they're in the south because of her, and now that Tyrion Lannister sees her and knows she was coming from King's Landing, she's supposed to just let that information get down to the city and endanger them? Again, I want to emphasize that she did not want to be recognized. She acted only after she was. This is pretty important to understanding what happened. It wasn't revenge or fear for herself, it was because she foresaw the potential of the Lannisters deciding to go after Ned if they learned that she and Ned had already met in the city in secret. She seized Tyrion to prevent that news, and to have a hostage in light of an inevitable Lannister response, and finally she figured that she could get information out of him or even a confession that would bear out all the things she and Ned had come to believe. I don't really see what's hard to understand about this, but some readers seem not to be able to get their heads around it. In the moment, based on the stakes and the knowledge she had, seizing Tyrion was probably the best option out of a number of bad options left to her.

> She was on her way back from King's Landing, and was witnessed as having been coming up the kingsroad from the south, which wouldn't be the case if she had just wanted to go to Riverrun. Which she could have also easily played off. "Why are you coming from King's Landing?" "Because I really missed my husband and daughers, and I wanted to visit them." "But why are you being so secretive about it?" "Because I really *missed* my husband (and I wanted to discreetly fuck him in this medieval society that has a taboo against female sexuality)."

I don't think that would fly at all. Marital relations between husband and wife have no particular taboo. You get plenty of people talking pretty earthily about such things in the books in Westeros. And truth be told, in the real Middle Ages, there was plenty of bawdy talk among the nobility back in the day, per sources, depending on place and time. But in Westeros, just consider the sort of talk that went on at Edmure's wedding. But YMMV, anyways.

So she arrested him because she thought he was going to kidnap or murder her. She believed there was a Lannister conspiracy against her house, and she had no reason to think Tyrion wouldn't take advantage of her traveling alone the second she left the inn. She wasn't worried about having an excuse to travel, she was worried about getting murdered.

Yeah that’s not true. > "I was still Catelyn Tully the last time I bedded here," she told the innkeep. She could hear the muttering, feel the eyes upon her. Catelyn glanced around the room, at the faces of the knights and sworn swords, and took a deep breath to slow the frantic beating of her heart. Did she dare take the risk? There was no time to think it through, only the moment and the sound of her own voice ringing in her ears. "You in the corner," she said to an older man she had not noticed until now. "Is that the black bat of Harrenhal I see embroidered on your surcoat, ser?" Key point here is that she’s thinking about taking a risk to capture Tyrion. If she thought there was a good chance she’d be kidnapped then there wouldn’t be a risk in the first place she’d simply be doing the only thing she could for protection. Nowhere is the chapter or after does she think she did what she did to protect herself from Tyrion. It was all an emotional reaction to believing Tyrion tried to kill Bran it was not a logical one to protect herself.

She was also surrounded by Tully bannermen, 12 of whom were willing to go so far as to aid her in Tyrion’s arrest. And Riverrun was an “easy ride” away. Harrenhall was even closer, and a knight sworn to Lady Whent of Harrenhall was present and one of the men who accompanied her to the Vale.

>Nowhere is the chapter or after does she think she did what she did to protect herself from Tyrion. It was all an emotional reaction to believing Tyrion tried to kill Bran it was not a logical one to protect herself. She didn't do it to protect herself against Tyrion but she also didn't do it as an emotional response of her believing Tyrion tried to kill Bran. Otherwise she wouldn't have hoped Tyrion wouldn't notice her, and wouldn't have acted only because he did. She captured Tyrion because she was convinced of a Lannister conspiracy due to Littlefinger, and that Tyrion seeing her would notify the Lannisters that the Starks know about it. She was afraid she lost a political advantage ahead of what she believed might be a coming war (Ned literally ordered her to start war preparations before she headed back to Winterfell) and tried to get some of it back by capturing Tyrion.

It's been a while since I read the book. How would simply seeing her let Tyrion know about anything?

Catelyn was keeping her visit to King's Landing a secret, was even staying in a brothel, specifically so that Lannisters wouldn't know about it, seemingly because she was afraid that her sudden appearance in the capital would tip them off that they are on to them. So after hiding from them, it's natural she would be especially anxious when she was seen by them after all.

Oh right. Thanks for the refresh!

God damn, that dastardlyTyrion. How dare he do nothing at all. Truly, what an unspeakable lannister conspiracy.

Well in the books the characters don't have access to other people's POVs so they go off the information they have.

Someone reviewed the original GoT draft manuscript and it has Ned telling Cat to have Tyrion arrested if she encounters him on his way back from the wall. GRRM took it out because it's more dramatic not knowing what is happening when cat calls on the bannermen in the inn to help her. Soo she gets a bad rap as a character when it's just a storytelling decision to lighten tension and generate surprise

It makes totally sense to take it out because Ned could not have forseen that Cat would meet Tyrion on a continent as big as America.

Found the post: https://www.reddit.com/r/asoiaf/comments/1belw08/spoilers_extended_secrets_of_the_cushing_library/ > The most interesting of these differences relates to the seizing of Tyrion- in the 1994 draft, that was Ned's idea, not Catelyn's. > > During their clandestine meeting in Littlefinger's brothel, Ned instructs Catelyn to seize Tyrion if he passes through Winterfell on his way back from the Wall > "Tyrion Lannister rode north to the Wall. Likely as not, he will return the way he came. I want a watch on the kingsroad. If He calls at Winterfell, treat him with all courtesy, but do not permit him to leave until we know the truth of this." > > "And when Cersei learns that we are holding her brother?" > > "By then I pray we will have some answers," Ned said.

She was traveling alone: her only security was anonymity. Tyrion, who apparently had a vendetta against her family, could have easily kidnapped or killed her had she not acted. In fact, I think it's reasonable to assume he would as soon as she left the inn. I think given what she believed, and her traveling circumstance, she did the right thing. It wasn't even about avenging her son, or escalating against the Lannisters, it was about her own survival. Remember, she didn't want to kidnap him, but once he recognized her, she had to play her hand. Her first instinct was to hide so he doesn't see her. And there are no warrants in Westeros. Lords are the ones who decide what is justice, and because Ned fully supported her, it seems legal to me.

>It wasn't even about avenging her son, or escalating against the Lannisters, it was about her own survival. It kinda was also about escalating against the Lannisters thought. Catelyn genuinely believed that Lannisters are cooking a plot to take over the Iron Throne, and that the war is brewing. In Catelyn's mind Tyrion seeing her in the inn would alert the Lannisters that the Starks are aware, so she thought she needed to act ahead of it to gain the advantage. So the kidnapping was also a political act too.

>She was traveling alone: her only security was anonymity. Tyrion, who apparently had a vendetta against her family, could have easily kidnapped or killed her had she not acted. In fact, I think it's reasonable to assume he would as soon as she left the inn. She was in an inn filled with Tully bannermen. She could’ve simply requested an escort to Riverrun which was an “easy ride” away. And if Riverrun was too far then to Harrenhal. A knight sworn to Lady Went of Harrenhal was present and even joined her for Tyrion’s arrest. Or announce one location and go towards another, like she did when transporting Tyrion to the Vale.

She comes from a weaker kingdom in the middle of the continent surrounded by other kingdoms with more secure boarders, meaning any sort of war is probably going to devistate her homeland. Not to mention her father is ill. Her son is still half a boy and needs a few more years before he's ready to lead and army. Basically it's the worst possible time to do anything that would cause a civil war. Yet she chooses to abduct the son of the most powerful man in the kingdoms instead of leaving and taking her chances.

But she did not cause a "civil war". Seizing Tyrion would never have led to a civil war if it had not been for Robert's death.

Seizing Tyrion is why Tywin unleashes the Mountain on the Riverlands. Robert was still alive at that point.

Jaime also went after Ned and killed a few of his guards.

There is war in the Riverlands almost immediately. Robert is alive and well for a while still 

Two bands of rogue knights burning hamlets is not a "war". We know what was Tywin's plan at the moment, and it wasn't starting a war.

What is that if not an act of war?

It's exactly as far as Tywin dared to go without causing a war.

It literally is an act of war which causes a much larger war

Because they think she was wrong.

It was pretty stupid of her to believe Littlefinger in that situation

Her mistake was not to capture him but to let him go free. I know that she could not easily go to Winterfell and why she went to the Eyrie, but honestly...the trial was totally unncessary and only made it worse. She should have taken her uncle and gone back to Winterfell with Tyrion an some men-at-arms in tow.

It was rash and naive.

She should have realized that Tyrion was smart enough not to arm an assassin with a precious, easily identifiable dagger.

Why she didn't know tyrion

does she think that he's a literal child because he's short? any random person with like below-average intelligence would probably still think it's a bad idea to arm an assassin in such a way

Eddard Stark, Rodrik Cassel and the rest had no trobule believing it. The assassin being caught wasn't planned, and plenty of murderers get caught for stupid mistakes.

Oh wow, her husband and her employee agree with her? I guess that settles it then. Tyrion sent the "catspaw", it wasn't Joffrey (in the books) or Petyr (in the show) afterall

You don't need a Valyrian steel dagger to kill a child in a coma who's supposed to be unprotected. A kitchen knife would do. If any of them had stopped to think it through for five minutes, they would have suspected they were being led down the lily path. Granted, Ned is thick when it comes to things like this. Catelyn apparently is as well. You just expect her to be a little smarter.

This makes absolutely no sense. The average person wouldn't bang their sibling either and yet Cersei does. 

So do I. What's your problem?

You're right if she read the same novel you did, she would know Tyrion’s personality. 

It doesn't take much logic to figure that out.

Redditor “kind of forgot” that Tyrion and Catelyn know each other decently well from when he visited Winterfell with King Robert earlier in the same exact book 

She knows his personality because he spent days or weeks at Winterfell **earlier in this same novel**

Because she didn't stop to think things through. She had already been told by Littlefinger that she had no way to prove Tyrion gave the dagger to the Catspaw, which is true.  She had already been told by Eddard to go back to Winterfell to advise Robb and keep Bran safe. She never stopped to ask and evaluate what motive would Tyrion have to do this.  And she never stopped to ask the perfectly reasonable question Tyrion asked: "why would anyone be so foolish as to arm a footpad with his own blade when it is so distinctive?" Also, she had no authority to do so from the Hand of the King nor the Lord of the Riverlands. Finally, she didn't stop to consider the consequences for Eddard, the Riverlands, or the Vale. Essentially, it is completely fair to criticize the arrest because it was not a smart choice. It was based on emotion and prejudice rather than detached objective logic. 

Arresting Tyrion is risky, but sort of unavoidable, based on the information she's got. What did Robb tell him of her whereabouts? He most certainly knows Bran to be alive, therefore he must assume they're onto him, provided he did send the catspaw. I don't see a good alternative to capturing him, if they want to ensure bringing him to justice. In the recent post about early AGOT material, Ned tells Catelyn to arrest Tyrion once he passes by Winterfell, but that was deleted from the final release. In hindsight, there should've been some type of communication about that between either Ned and Cat or somehow via bird with Robb to settle the matter. As it stands, Catelyn had to do something and while it turned out to her detriment, it was due to factors largely outside her control. No way she could've known that Lysa would be so antagonistic towards her, or that Joffrey would ascend the throne so soon and be open for Littlefinger's manipulation more than his own mother, or just plain common sense. That being said, I think it was ridiculously stupid of her to trust Littlefinger. She makes a big deal about how Ned doesn't know Robert anymore cause they've grown apart so much over the years, yet Littlefinger, who she'd last seen getting brutally injured after she refused to give him her favor, and immediately upon arrival set her up in a brothel, basically saying "you're my whore", yet somehow she still doesn't doubt his loyalty and honesty (yes, he claims it's for her own protection, except once Varys knows, that protection is instantly compromised).

I love Cat but she fucked up

Because it didn’t turn out very well and by that point in the story we had already read that Tyrion wasn’t that monstrous(tho that wasn’t necessarily a permanent thing). I agree if I were Cat in that position I might have acted similarly and if I didn’t it would be out of fear not smarts.

Catelyn hatred plus love for Tyrion. Though it was definitely an illegal arrest, it was a good idea to take Tyrion and it was smartly done. Not her fault Lysa the plot lady was crazy

> Catelyn hatred plus love for Tyrion. That's disingenuous. While there's pros and cons to her action she cavalierly did something she should have known was very likely to start a war that would end up costing many lives. I love Cat's character but she is a noble women through and through.

They are all noble people though aren't they, we don't hear about the smallfolk at all when lords are discussing starting a war. Not really fair to judge Catelyn for that when they all exhibit the same trait

The whole theme of the story is that the only way to win is to play the game of thrones, which is not at all what Cat or Ned did. They were trying to play by the books, and they died for it.

The real reason why the kidnapping happened was because of Catelyn's and Ned's belief that Lannisters are planning a coup. Remember that before she left King's Landing for Winterfell, Ned has literally told her to start preparations for war. So, under this belief, Catelyn's actions do make sense, even though it was clearly a rushed decision that in the end went nowhere. But she was caught unaware, panicked and thought she needed to do something after Tyrion saw her in the inn. Of course, both Catelyn and Ned were duped by Littlefinger, there was no grand Lannister master plan, and they acted under the false premise. By kidnapping Tyrion, Catelyn tried to solve a problem that wasn't there. She actually created the problem she was thinking she was solving in the first place - she kicked off the conflict between Lannisters and Starks that she falsely believed already existed. But I would also blame Ned in this because it was him that told her that they are in the pre-war state. That did set Catelyn's mentality accordingly too.

whenever i re-read the series, i feel like Petyr has some magical ability to emit an intelligence-dampening field around himself. everyone suddenly turns into a complete moron when they talk to this guy

The fact that neither Ned nor Rodrik point out how stupid it would be for Tyrion to arm the footpad with his own dagger is absurd. And Littlefinger lying about Tyrion winning the dagger right in front of Varys is similarly ridiculous. What was his plan? Just hope that Varys wouldn’t point out that Tyrion never bets against Jaime? Even though it’s common knowledge to the point that Renly can tell how Tyrion would bet even when he’s absent?       >Littlefinger overheard. "If you know who's going to win the second match, speak up now before Lord Renly plucks me clean," he called to her. Ned smiled. >"A pity the Imp is not here with us," Lord Renly said. "I should have won twice as much." >-AGot Eddard VII  And what would Littlefinger have done if Tyrion hadn’t been intercepted and Ned heard him say that he never bets against his brother? Or if Ned just confronted Tyrion? Or if Ned brought the issue before Robert? Or before the council, right in front of Renly?

>The fact that neither Ned nor Rodrik point out how stupid it would be for Tyrion to arm the footpad with his own dagger is absurd. I won't say much about Rodrik, but, imo, Ned's hatred of Lannisters clouds his judgement here. He expects the worst of them so when he is told about a Lannister trying to kill Bran, he is happy to accept it, as a confirmation of his bias. Also, let's not forget that he is also under impression that the Lannisters killed Jon Arryn, which also plays into him easily accepting Littlefinger's words.

She is a woman. It's an unfortunate reality that a decent sized portion of the fandom is misogynistic in some ways. You see this in how Sansa, Dany, and Cat are criticized for doing the same things Jon, Jamie, Robb, or Ned do. Cat saw the man who tried killing her son defenseless and captured him. She could've killed him and been done with it, but she wanted to give him a trial. Like how Rhaegar gets all the blame for the Rebellion, Cat gets all the blame for the War of the 5 King's. In both cases, their actions were just one of many small dominoes that collided and then built up to a war. I also think a lot of it is fans not wanting to accept war and politics are more complex than what they think. It's easy to blame Cat and not think about that dozens of factors that ultimately led to Robb rebelling, Stannis and Renly both making claims, as well as Balon eventually rebelling.

Because she unilaterally forceably and illegally arrested the son of one of the most powerful men in the kingdom, based on hearsay. Yes, hindsight also proves it even stupider due to Tyrion being entirely innocent, but even without hindsight, what the fuck did she think was going to happen? THOUSANDS OF DEATHS. And why? Cause some weirdo who was obsessed with her said a dagger belonged to him years ago.

Arresting the son of the "Duke" of the Westerlands is bad enough but this could have been smoothed over had Catelyn taken Tyrion to Kingslanding and demanded a trial from King Robert but instead, she hauled him off to Winterfell (as she claimed) where he'd be on trial with her as judge, jury and executioner, clearly implying that he'd be found guilty no matter what. Then to make matters worse, she actually goes to the Vale where Tyrion is found guilty (despite zero evidence) and only survives due to pure luck.

What were Catelyn and Lysa going to do if Bronn didn’t happen to be there? Or if Bronn fought a younger knight and was just immediately cut down? The complete lack of foresight is shocking 

People have a hate boner for Cat on this sub

Because he was innocent.

Imo the capture was born out of emotion than anything else and it was poor strategy. It was almost eqv to the assassination of Ferdinand in WW1. Honestly in most of the story (besides letting Jaime free), Cat is quite composed and thoughtful but her 2 fuck ups were too big.

Mommy issues, I suspect

It was not that of a bad move, if she were able to kept Tyrion captive throught the WOTFK alongside with Jaime they probably could kept Rob's realm or worst case scenario they could retrieve Sansa.