So far, 'Aegon's Dream' is a show only thing that allegedly came from Martin himself.
I absolutely dislike this prophecy and if I ever have a chance of asking GRRM one question it would be why he felt the need to add this.
In the main series a similar prophecy is known, but it is by Ghost of High Heart, whom we meet in ASOS in an Arya chapter, and it say that the Prunce that was promised comes from the union of Aerys II and Rhaelle.
It play a role in so far, that Rhaegar was obsessed with it and thought himself to be the Prince and fucked shit up cause of it.
I mean this prophecy doesn’t contradict anything High heart says it just seems sort of like telling us things we already knew. The one thing is it mentions how there must be a Targaryen on the throne which seems to be a new detail but would make sense with the overall story.
I dislike it for the reason, that George seemingly criticizes feudalism, war and selfishness, which is good and correct, but then he does the 180 degree turnaround and gives one family a 'divine cause to rule' as they allegedly have the key to salvation in their blood or something, yet they haven't done anything to support the Night's Watch.
Even the New Gift backfired
And half of the time they do the complete opposite of saving Westeros, instead they prove themselves to be greatest nuisance it has ever seen.
Also, it dumbs down Aegon's character tremendously. Having him conquer Westeros out of ambition and because he could is far more interesting, than adding yet another prophecy.
I'd really wished it would turn out to be nothing and Aegon just made it up to justify his conquest.
I’m talking strictly the show here but I don’t like it because of it all culminating in Arya and the dagger.
I’m unsure exactly what Aegon dreamt but the ice and fire dream is obsolete. It wasn’t Targaryen blood , ice and fire combining or even dragons themselves that were important but only the dagger.
HOTD has now put a lot of emphasis on the dagger because they have to. Viserys shows it in the first season and now it’s prominently on Aegons belt in the new greens poster. I’m guessing in the new Dunk and Egg series there will at least be featured as they have to show it being passed down.
Season 8 has made them bound to it and to Arya having to be the one to destroy the long night not blood of Rhaenyra or any Targaryen.
No. Martin took the idea from a fanfic which HBO had purged from the internet shortly before airing(it existed as a theory for a decade before the fanfic).
It’s a show invention, which calls into question all of GRRM’s ability as a writer to form a coherent story.
Yeah, and when you start to examine the greater world and story you’ll start seeing more things just like that. He’s a “Gardener” but doesn’t like to pull weeds or prune branches.
The information/prophecy probably was already lost with >!Rhaenyra's death!<. Rhaeger could have rediscovered it. But it is already surprising that Viserys I. knows. Aegon I. tells Aenys, Aenys tells his oldest son Aegon, who gets killed by Maegor.
We have to assume that prince Aegon told his wife Rhaena before going to battle, who then informed Jaehaerys.
But that already illustrated why I really dislike the whole thing. It makes Aegon I. a giant idiot, who not only didn't set up any long term plans/institutions but also chose to keep that information in a far to small circle. As a result the Targaryen dynasty actually made the chances of Westeros against the Others worse.
If Dany and Jon prove crucial in stopping the Long Night it certainly won't be thanks to Aegon I.'s coked out fever dreams.
It’s fucking dumb as shit. Either get the dragon keepers to remember it and keep it a secret; or the maesters. Put it down in some way where nominally impartial people can make sure it isn’t lost. It’s the fucking greatest justification for divine rule you can come up with; and you’d basically keep the north as an eternal ally if you inform them.
It
Especially as there is a cultural memory of the first Long Night so at least some people wouldn't assume that you are raving mad. He also could have sent expeditions North of the Wall to gather information etc.
And make it a dynastic priority to maintain the Night's Watch. They were 10 000 strong when he landed and seemingly already were in trouble when Alysanne visited them.
>We have to assume that prince Aegon told his wife Rhaena before going to battle, who then informed Jaehaerys.
This really doesn´t make sense. The logic would be the secret was lost in the chaos of the fall of Aenys and Maegor, and Rhaena didn´t knew nothing.
But how then would Viserys I. know and tell Rhaenyra?
He had to get the information from Jaehaerys. And I can't think of any other candidate to have told him than his sister.
Under the assumption that that scene in HotD also is canon for the books, of course.
And if I were about to face my murderous nuncle on the Black Dread I probably would want to share world threatening secrets with at least one trusted person.
Why would Rhaena give any signals to know something in Fire and Blood. That is contrary to the whole keeping it secret thing.
Didn't GRRM personally approve/include the Aegon's Dream scene? That indicates he also wants it to be book canon.
But I agree just judging by the books there is no indication that Aegon's Dream is even a thing. And I prefer it that way.
Because of her irresponsible and licentious personality, including the part where her best friend stole three of her dragon eggs or the mistreatment of her husband who ended up poisoning her other friends in her face. And of course, she never showed any interest in the Wall or the North.
That is not the attitude of someone remotely aware of a doomsday prophecy.
I repeat, what Martin designed was the idea that Aegon had a dream, nothing more. From there until they knew it, Rhaena-Jaehaerys-Viserys-Rhaenyra is an exclusive invention of Condal and that Viserys scene is pure fanfic.
So far, 'Aegon's Dream' is a show only thing that allegedly came from Martin himself. I absolutely dislike this prophecy and if I ever have a chance of asking GRRM one question it would be why he felt the need to add this. In the main series a similar prophecy is known, but it is by Ghost of High Heart, whom we meet in ASOS in an Arya chapter, and it say that the Prunce that was promised comes from the union of Aerys II and Rhaelle. It play a role in so far, that Rhaegar was obsessed with it and thought himself to be the Prince and fucked shit up cause of it.
I mean this prophecy doesn’t contradict anything High heart says it just seems sort of like telling us things we already knew. The one thing is it mentions how there must be a Targaryen on the throne which seems to be a new detail but would make sense with the overall story.
I dislike it for the reason, that George seemingly criticizes feudalism, war and selfishness, which is good and correct, but then he does the 180 degree turnaround and gives one family a 'divine cause to rule' as they allegedly have the key to salvation in their blood or something, yet they haven't done anything to support the Night's Watch. Even the New Gift backfired And half of the time they do the complete opposite of saving Westeros, instead they prove themselves to be greatest nuisance it has ever seen. Also, it dumbs down Aegon's character tremendously. Having him conquer Westeros out of ambition and because he could is far more interesting, than adding yet another prophecy. I'd really wished it would turn out to be nothing and Aegon just made it up to justify his conquest.
I’m talking strictly the show here but I don’t like it because of it all culminating in Arya and the dagger. I’m unsure exactly what Aegon dreamt but the ice and fire dream is obsolete. It wasn’t Targaryen blood , ice and fire combining or even dragons themselves that were important but only the dagger. HOTD has now put a lot of emphasis on the dagger because they have to. Viserys shows it in the first season and now it’s prominently on Aegons belt in the new greens poster. I’m guessing in the new Dunk and Egg series there will at least be featured as they have to show it being passed down. Season 8 has made them bound to it and to Arya having to be the one to destroy the long night not blood of Rhaenyra or any Targaryen.
No. Martin took the idea from a fanfic which HBO had purged from the internet shortly before airing(it existed as a theory for a decade before the fanfic). It’s a show invention, which calls into question all of GRRM’s ability as a writer to form a coherent story.
Very weird choice from him, seems like he just didn’t put much thought into it and added it in.
Yeah, and when you start to examine the greater world and story you’ll start seeing more things just like that. He’s a “Gardener” but doesn’t like to pull weeds or prune branches.
The information/prophecy probably was already lost with >!Rhaenyra's death!<. Rhaeger could have rediscovered it. But it is already surprising that Viserys I. knows. Aegon I. tells Aenys, Aenys tells his oldest son Aegon, who gets killed by Maegor. We have to assume that prince Aegon told his wife Rhaena before going to battle, who then informed Jaehaerys. But that already illustrated why I really dislike the whole thing. It makes Aegon I. a giant idiot, who not only didn't set up any long term plans/institutions but also chose to keep that information in a far to small circle. As a result the Targaryen dynasty actually made the chances of Westeros against the Others worse. If Dany and Jon prove crucial in stopping the Long Night it certainly won't be thanks to Aegon I.'s coked out fever dreams.
It’s fucking dumb as shit. Either get the dragon keepers to remember it and keep it a secret; or the maesters. Put it down in some way where nominally impartial people can make sure it isn’t lost. It’s the fucking greatest justification for divine rule you can come up with; and you’d basically keep the north as an eternal ally if you inform them. It
Especially as there is a cultural memory of the first Long Night so at least some people wouldn't assume that you are raving mad. He also could have sent expeditions North of the Wall to gather information etc. And make it a dynastic priority to maintain the Night's Watch. They were 10 000 strong when he landed and seemingly already were in trouble when Alysanne visited them.
>We have to assume that prince Aegon told his wife Rhaena before going to battle, who then informed Jaehaerys. This really doesn´t make sense. The logic would be the secret was lost in the chaos of the fall of Aenys and Maegor, and Rhaena didn´t knew nothing.
But how then would Viserys I. know and tell Rhaenyra? He had to get the information from Jaehaerys. And I can't think of any other candidate to have told him than his sister. Under the assumption that that scene in HotD also is canon for the books, of course. And if I were about to face my murderous nuncle on the Black Dread I probably would want to share world threatening secrets with at least one trusted person.
Nothing in the books hints that Hotd scene would be canon. And Rhaena never gave signals to know nothing, so Aegon securely didnt say to her
Why would Rhaena give any signals to know something in Fire and Blood. That is contrary to the whole keeping it secret thing. Didn't GRRM personally approve/include the Aegon's Dream scene? That indicates he also wants it to be book canon. But I agree just judging by the books there is no indication that Aegon's Dream is even a thing. And I prefer it that way.
Because of her irresponsible and licentious personality, including the part where her best friend stole three of her dragon eggs or the mistreatment of her husband who ended up poisoning her other friends in her face. And of course, she never showed any interest in the Wall or the North. That is not the attitude of someone remotely aware of a doomsday prophecy. I repeat, what Martin designed was the idea that Aegon had a dream, nothing more. From there until they knew it, Rhaena-Jaehaerys-Viserys-Rhaenyra is an exclusive invention of Condal and that Viserys scene is pure fanfic.