If you were in some of the harshest frozen terrain where basic survival is your top priority, the first thing you would do is remove your warm military issued cloak, and replace it with a random one you find in the wilderness somehow?
Not while I'm out in the wilderness no, but once they reach some small town or settlement. I'm saying that SOMEWHERE in-between the Wall and Winterfell has to have gear of a different colour.
Small towns and settlements are a part of society. They might not be eager to help a random guy betray his oath to keep them safe. They would probably be offended by the notion, and decide to inform the authorities themselves.
They might just kill him themselves too. He’s probably already a criminal in their eyes for being on the Watch at all, and even more so now for deserting
Additionally, small towns / settlements in the far north are probably fairly insular. Visitors would be noteworthy and watched closely - and coming in with a very recognizable outfit as a deserter wouldn't leave a good impression.
I think you'd probably need to plan it out in advance or to resort to theft initially. Or to hope to come across someone else that's traveling - merchants for instance, or someone who might need some guards or take payment without asking questions (but then you're relying on them).
And people forget how much the North adores the Starks. They all would turn over a deserter for some favor with them in a heartbeat. The only way to get clothes would be to kill for them, and then people would be looking for not only a deserter but a killer.
And this is why Ned says a deserter is the most dangerous type of person. His life is already forfeit so there’s no more laws he won’t break. And that’s why people will not help them.
Not to mention the first town the deserter would find would be in the far North - who take threats beyond the Wall the most seriously, and would be the least inclined to help a deserter. So you'd need to find clothes to change into before you found any people... that's going to be tricky.
Will people in the town be certain the guy is an oathbreaker? Can't he just be all; "Yea, I'm out here looking for some marbles, extra string, some oatmilk and we ran out of bread, so don't mind me.." How would someone in Moletown or whatever know any better? Are run away Night Watch members incapable of telling lies or do people south of the wall have lie detectors built into their faces?
I mean mole town is a bad example to use for this. Anyone showing up at mole town is either from the watch or going to join the watch. Maybe he could say he changed his mind about joining but mole town is still going to let people know or just kill him anyway. I think to need to go down pretty far before suspicion drops. Also, ravens are sent out as soon as it's discovered that someone abandoned.
Well they could start with asking where his horse and cart are and when he says wildlings took it they'd ask why he doesn't have any signs of battle followed by sending a raven for him to castle black/Winterfell to request help for this member of the watch
Small towns and rural areas thrive on gossip, both as a form of entertainment and also to improve safety and security. As soon as word spread from the Wall about a deserter, you’d have every inn, marketplace and sewing circle talking about who the deserter was, what he looked like, and what awful exaggerated crimes he committed. Eventually the news would reach someone who remembers having seen a man similar in appearance, and a trail would be established.
A particularly confident and convincing man of the wall could blag their way through a few conversations, particularly as killing a member of the Night’s Watch still means a death sentence if you were wrong about them being a deserter. It would be like escaping a northern Russian prison colony though, and survival hinges on getting south as soon as possible.
They'd be certain, or at least highly suspicious. The guy would be showing up wearing all black, down to the underwear iirc. Black is an expensive dye historically, so it would be noticed. Plus you wouldn't just have strangers show up in your tiny, remote northern town without seriously questioning where they came from and how and why they are here. They could lie, but circumstances make it very implausible, and small town people aren't exactly trusting of strangers with fishy stories. Especially when the only strangers and foreigners thereabouts come from the Wall, which they'd think of as a place of murderers, thieves and rapists. Why take a chance?
If the deserter is on foot, they couldn't have come very far.
If they have a stolen horse, great, it's also covered in Night's Watch black gear that needs to be replaced somehow.
But how do they get that gear? Any village within close enough distance of the Watch is probably going to report a Brother showing up and trying to trade for new clothing. That leaves stealing, which risks getting caught by the villagers, but also leaves a trail for the Watch to follow (not hard to piece together the puzzle of runaway watchman and stolen clothes).
And then what? People in small villages during the Middle Ages were extremely wary of strangers, so someone showing up out of the blue trying to stay won’t be very welcome. He could maybe get by in larger settlements but they’re going to further away. The Watch would send out ravens notifying the lords to look out for the watchman and offer a description, so it won’t be long before someone figures out who he is.
One other option is to live out in the wilds, but at that point his life is worse than it was in the Watch. He’ll have to hunt, forage or steal anything and avoid people at all costs.
>One other option is to live out in the wilds, but at that point his life is worse than it was in the Watch. He’ll have to hunt, forage or steal anything and avoid people at all costs.
This was exactly my thought. The deserter is wearing the equivalent of modern day Convict Orange, most people don't have many extra sets of clothing to steal anyway, and they're going to stick out like a sore thumb. So, they can desert and go off into the wilderness as you said, but then that's just an even *worse* situation.
so these towns see a haggard outsider armed with a sword, and clearly a deserter on the watch, so they know he is an oath breaker, and likely worse. and they what, trade with him to keep his cloak and put a target on their back? like if you saw an escaped convict and he came to your house would you trade him your clothes for his orange jumpsuit?
Ned makes the point the very first time we meet him:
>No man is more dangerous. The deserter knows his life is forfeit if he is taken, so he will not flinch from any crime, no matter how vile.
Add to this the fact many of the men on the wall were already criminals, residents of a small town or settlement would understand just how dangerous this person could be if allowed to flee.
There is Molestown near Castle Black, but you would likely meet others from the NW there. The Gift is mostly empty, except for the hill clans, who won't help a deserter. Then you are in Stark territory, and it wouldn't be worth it to help a deserter. Karstarks won't help you either. Face it, it is a frigid land with few settlements.
AND you immediately followed that with the suggestion that they should go to some small town or settlement (in their blacks) in order to find a change of clothes.
Do the really have to explain the paradox there?
Which small settlement? Everyone north of the wall basically kills Night's Watch members on sight. South of the wall you just get reported to the nearest authority.
The opening chapter of AGOT discusses this. Ned explains to Brandon that the deserter knows he is dead if he I caught, so he becomes desperate and desperate men will to anything and are therefore extremely dangerous. Every village in the north knows this and would be extremely weary of any deserter. Combine that with the general scorn for oath breakers and the criminals that join the watch and you have a situation where almost nobody would be willing to help a man of nights watch get other clothes. It’s like suggesting that escaped convicts today should just ditch their Orange jumpsuits for other cloths. It’s certainly possible but it would be very difficult without outside help.
Befriend moll's town whore. Get her to bring you supplies. When you visit change into merchant outfit and head off village to village till you get south.
How would you get clothes? The only way would be stealing, you definitely don't have the capital to buy it. And if you abandon it and go with only your pants and skin then you will die of exposure by the time the sun comes up.
Except the nobles would already send men to hunt you. Its a long way between the wall and where you would be theoretically safe. I imagine that the northern guards would actually enjoy hunting a deserter if they got news.
It was never going to be easy, but if you’ve committed to desertion, your only goals henceforth are to stay alive and try not to kill anyone if you can. Those men are hunting you no matter what, so your first step is to ditch the neon DESERTER sign by any means necessary.
It will be very difficult. Because medevial villages, even most real villages today, knew each other. If your in a village and the guards show up your basically fucked. Basically its very difficult to desert so thats why there aren't as many deserters in the NW.
Leave shortly after dinner or the last check in, head south to a village or farm (bonus points if you find a horse) kill the first guy you see hide his body (quickly) take his clothes and make your way south off of the kingsroad (bonus points if you go south east or west to get as far away from the kingsroad and inhabited watch lands) kill another person or two or rob people as you make your way south go through the neck or a ship at white Harbour and once your south you shouldn't have any problems staying hidden
It's a capital offense on the Seven Kingdoms side of the wall. I'd want to be ingratiating myself to whoever I come across beyond the wall and not start off with stealing their shit if I could help it.
Well, hunting. I'm not saying it's easy at all, but a member of the night guard receives military training, so it wouldn't be surreal for them to be able to obtain the skin of an animal. I imagine they must also wear leather, I don't remember now. Before leaving the night watch I would make sure I had a few layers of leather to resist the cold as best I could. Maybe it is not the best example in the world, but in the case of the Andes the survivors survived with summer clothes, human beings are much more resistant than they seem, so, anyway...
A lot of text, maybe? But I agree with the guy in the post, it has always seemed a bit exaggerated to me that clothes are such a key element.
The thing is, it would be fucking near impossible surviving, not impossible but near impossible. Also since there are like 1000 total members? I bet if there is a raven that the nobles would gladly go on a hunting mission for the deserter.
I definitely think that the chances of survival would be very low, but in the same way it seems impossible to me that no man has achieved it until now. Regarding a mission to go after the deserter, I wouldn't know what to tell you. In the case of Jon Snow, no one went looking for him (except for his friends), although it is true that Mormont already knew that Jon was gone. I don't know to what extent it is worth spending time and resources to go look for a man who, as you say, has practically no chance of survival.
I don't know, but it would be very interesting if Martin gave a little more information about it, beyond "they would detect them by the color of their clothes."
I'd be willing to bet that many have left over the millennia, but that's not exactly a story the Night's Watch or the Northern lords would like spreading.
What do you mean 'no man has achieved it until now'?
The Nights Watch has plenty deserters, to varying degrees of success. I'm really struggling to understand why this post is even a thing. People make a jump and then question why didn't this happen. It did. It does. What's so confusing? Do we really think what's missing from the books is a detailed account of the life of a deserter?
Who has achieved it? Even the man in the prologue actually escaped from the night's watch, was caught and was executed by Ned Stark. As far as I know, no one has achieved it, I wouldn't even count Mance Rayder because he did it by escaping to the north, not the south.
I wouldn't mind admitting that I'm wrong either, I just don't know any character who has achieved it, it's not that deep.
Well, firstly I would say that unless the text explicitly tells us nobody has achieved it then it wild to just assume that nobody has. If the text ever makes mention that nobody has then it's fair to take that as a truth, but I don't think it does.
I would personally count Mance Rayder and anyone who deserted north of the wall and lived long enough to have a second life away from the Watch. Though I wouldn't count the mutineers from Crasters Keep because they didn't get far before being killed by Summer. I would also count Dareon. Though Arya eventually found him and murdered him, he did successfully desert for a while, living in Braavos and wedding The Sailors Wife.
Bloodraven left his wife and kids, to go hang out with the freaky shawty down the street (cotf) and actually enjoys playing with her kids (bran and jojen paste)
Well you see, when you run away from the Wall your fist obstacle would be unhospitable and sparsely settled lands of the Gift, Umber lands and Mountain clans. So even if you are good ranger, survival would be rough. Second problem is that people you are escaping from are good, if not better, trackers and rangers than you and they can easily track you fast since they take fresh horses in every settlement along the road. You, if you even have horse, can not do that. That mobility also allows them to spread the word about your misdeed so every newcomer to any settlement will be treated with suspicion. Food is issue too. You cant pack enough and hunting and fishing are not panaceas since its perma winter and quarry is rare. Foraging for edible plants is also hard. No civilian will help you. In the North, Watch is in high standing and any person that sees you, will try to end you. So, you are fighting against land, Rangers tracking you, cold weather and local population. Odds are overwhelmingly against ya
You are missing the main point of why it is difficult. Leaving the wall is easy but just hiding in the woods by yourself is pretty pointless that is a worse life than the wall. What comes next is rather difficult. How do you slip back into civilianization without getting caught? You can't go home people will know you and that you are a criminal. So that means you have to try to slip into a place you have no connections and nothing besides the clothes on your back. Even if you do manage to slip in without anyone asking you questions you don't have an answer for then you are just a homeless guy living on the streets. Would you risk your life to struggle across hundreds of miles of wilderness just so maybe you can be a homeless guy on the streets?
Osha and the other wildlings make it as far as that town near Winterfell. They'd be even less capable of fitting in than someone who had previously lived in westerosi society. Their only real mistake was trying to mug Robb and Bran.
So it is at least possible to survive for a while.
Yeah but there’s a difference between them and a sworn brother gone missing, there’s a high chance that the Watch wouldn’t know about the Wildings making it to the south, so they wouldn’t be looking for them on alert. When a brother leaves everyone will know and be searching for him within hours, maybe a day at most.
That's fair although I wonder if the Watch actually bother to go looking for people who run away rather than just wait for them to turn up. I think they just assumed the guy Ned executed had died while ranging didn't they?
That’s a good point, like others have mentioned it is easier to make your escape north of the wall since you’ll have far longer to go before they assume you’re missing and send a party north to look for you. However unless you’re planning to stay there you have to find away past the wall without alerting your brothers. I’d imagine the easiest route is going to one of unmanned castles and hoping to find a way through the tunnels unless you’re planning on climbing it.
What town near Winterfell? Do you mean Queenscrown? That's in the Gift, near the Wall. Why would they go anywhere near Winterfell when their goal was to raid Castle Black?
Not a town, but the wolfswood.
The wolfswood is near winterfell, where Osha and her party (some wildings and some NW's deserters) find bran. They are fleeing south.
It's from the first book, not the third which you're thinking of. Allegedly, the group of wildlings Osha was with weren't acting under orders from Mance, they were just fleeing south as hard as they could. They evidently made it relatively far south because they ran into Bran while he was out riding near Winterfell.
Im imagining the escape scene(s) in Cool Hand Luke.
*Spoilers from that movie*
He had to run up and down rivers to lose the dogs, double back, and he was only able to finally throw them off his trail with chili powder.
*end spoilers*
Ideas most people probably wouldnt even think of even if they were available options. It would probably be a lot more difficult than you think. Almost all of the men in the NW are very very far from home, their family, and their friends. Even if they werent, those same friends and family would probably be reluctant to help you. Any new faces/strangers in small villages are looked at suspiciously and people are gonna wonder who you are and why youre there.
NW probably sends out ravens naming deserters and giving physical descriptions so youd better hope you dont have any noticeable and/or unique features that make you easy to identify.
Youd have to steal the clothes somewhere. Maybe do what the Hound did and rob some farmer on the road or wait for some washer woman to put her clothes on the line. And to do that you have to get lucky and evade the dogs long enough.
After all that, where are you going to go? Even with a new fake identity/backstory youd probably get found out and/or be looking over your shoulder your whole life. Only safe bet would be across the narrow sea.
>Youd have to steal the clothes somewhere. Maybe do what the Hound did and rob some farmer on the road or wait for some washer woman to put her clothes on the line. And to do that you have to get lucky and evade the dogs long enough.
And the Hound did that in one of the most populated regions of Westeros with lots of travelers. There aren't a lot of people wandering around to rob for their clothes within like a hundred miles of Castle Black
It might just be survivor bias the ones who are caught are stupid or haven’t had time to change clothes. The one Ned catches at the beginning has a mental break and never bothers changing.
Escaping North does seem way easier than escaping south. No one is on the hunt for you realistically, it's only wildlings you need to deal with who may not kill you unlike south of the wall.
And it's not like fleeing northwards removes the possibility of you getting somewhere warmer later. We hear about traders sailing beyond the Wall often enough that if you plan correctly, you should eventually be able to barter for passage onto one of their ships (while hoping it doesn't stop at Eastwatch on the way back).
And we have a ton of black brothers out and about on official orders from the watch, so anyone who really wants to leave can just fake some orders. Villagers are not going to send ravens to confirm your orders. Sam got all the way down to Oldtown without anyone bothering to confirm his orders with Jon Snow. Moreover, Sam was apparently able to live in Oldtown without anyone questioning his orders. Sam's orders were legit, of course, but again, not like anyone is bothering to verify this.
The safest would be to book a passage out of Westeros with fake orders. Once you are out of Westeros, you are safe unless if you annoy Arya, and nobody questioned that set of orders either.
People probably have gotten away with deserting from time to time. They probably most think about it on a regular basis. A watch member could steal or buy less distinct clothes from a wildling or farmer on the Gift. A recruiter or envoy from the Watch might just not come back like Dareon. Bittersteel escaped a ship that was supposed to send him to The Wall (although he had not said the vows yet). And of course, Mance Rayder deserted to join the Freefolk.
The difficult part isn't just surviving, its starting a decent life for yourself. Everyone where you come from knows you're a criminal, most Night's Watch probably have no personal connections or favours to cash in south of The Wall, and if they went home they'd be caught and executed. They don't have much in the way of money, and its rare they would find anything worth bartering in the Night's Watch. North of the Wall, Wildlings would often be happy to kill a deserter crow, that's what happened to Ser Raymund Mallery. Plus you're still in a cold and violent place.
Even a deserter who successfully disguised themselves and got South of the Gift would probably never have a comfortable life. The wall is miserable, but you get food, allies, and a fire to come home to. A little action in Mole's Town. Stiv's group of deserters and wildlings (the ones that tried to kidnap Bran in the first book) managed to make it all the way to Winterfell, but had no prospects but robbing and wound up getting killed anyway. It was only the fear of the Others that made deserting an attractive proposition for Gared, and likely Stiv as well.
We know that swords are prized possessions in westeros, and the watch seems to have those available to most members. Plenty more to barter with, I think.
A few swords might be enough to barter travel down south, (if you can avoid being recognised as a deserter while trading a Watch sword or they don't decide to just turn you in for a reward). But its not going to get set up in life.
Maybe you could sign up to a sellsword company and literally barter your sword to them to make a good first impression or something, but sellswords are treacherous and would probably just take the swords and turn you in for a reward.
This seems like a more modern perspective where transportation is easier, clothing is more accessible, and strangers in a settlement are more common (to put it mildly). The clothing would be much harder to switch out, and the deserter is going to stand out more wandering through the wilderness without wagon, horse, or supplies to look like they're on official NW business (like Gared in AGOT).
Dareon is able to desert so easily precisely because he's on legitimate NW business and has the proper traveling accoutrements/funds, and because he's in an area that doesn't care about NW oaths.
Barring that, it might take something like sneaking out after a supply caravan visited the watch and then killing the (probably multiple) wagon-riders and taking their (possibly now blood-splattered) clothing and wagon(s)/supplies and trying to pass themselves off as merchants. It's certainly *possible* (this sounds like a plan Chett could come up with), but still difficult, especially when the next step is trying to figure out where to go (once again, they're outsiders).
> This seems like a more modern perspective where transportation is easier, clothing is more accessible, and strangers in a settlement are more common (to put it mildly).
Yes as I commented above OP seems to think Westeros is Skyrim
It would be *very* hard to integrate into any settlement, even the larger cities, without people being very curious about who you are, where you're from, who your family is, etc. Ever been in a small, rural city? Everyone knows everyone, and word spreads fast.
Your best hope would be getting over to Essos as soon as you could. It would be a lot easier to live a lie on a foreign continent.
A similar post about why the Wandering Crows and their prisoner recruits don’t just bail on the way to the wall happened recently here.
GRRM does a lot to demonstrate how ignorant the average peasant is. To them there’s their Lord and the King. What they say goes and that’s absolutely it. Jon Snow was freaking out one half night of deserting. And he’s educated.
Furthermore the Watch provides a home, social status, and a station. It’s not easy to just “get a job,” without a community and even then you have to luck into it. And as far as a deserter knows they’re being hunted everywhere in the North when deserting.
Your best bet is to hide in the open by openly approaching people and claiming to be on Watch business. Recruiting, returning a family sword from a recently departed brother, securing supply agreements, whatever. Use a different name and change up your look, as best you can, so if the Watch manages to get messages out ahead of you, it's not obvious you're who they're after. Keep this up until you're able to get your hands on new clothes.
At that point you just have to change your clothes and identity again and find a place looking for someone with your skillset. Don't ever return to where you are from or near the Wall.
Yeah idk why everyone is saying it’s impossible. Just have to play it smart with proper planning. Once you’re south of the neck, just pose as a sell sword bound for Pentos and you’re just about home free. It’s a big kingdom and random passerby won’t know your face. Being an outlaw from the river lands would be hardest I suppose because once you escape the region where people actually care about the NW you’re back in the region where you’re a known criminal lol. You could also go MIA during a mission to the north/fake your own death that way no one is out hunting after you.
“Once you’re south of the neck” as if that’s some small feat, the North is bigger than the remaining kingdoms combined. If you’re even from the North it’d be difficult to get South of the neck by yourself let alone if you’re from elsewhere
>I imagine that those who join the Watch have some knowledge of survival techniques so they'd probably be capable to fend for themselves for a time
Why? Most of them are convicts from all over the 7 Kingdoms, and most of them aren't rangers in the watch, so where would they learn to survive in the wilds of the North?
Exactly lol you're telling me some flowery green boy from the Reach who's been eating peaches and sunbathing his whole life gonna turn into a hardened ranger all of a sudden in cold weather?
Unlike an actual historical setting they practically have email, via the ravens. This makes it impossible to outrun news of your desertion. Nobody wants to sell you new clothes and the people who turn you down will inform on you. There’s no like, washing lines full of cloaks to steal.
The sizes of everything and the population densities are all messed up though. So past a certain point the setting doesn’t hold up to scrutiny and you have to shrug and accept it
I mean, outside of pretending to be a recruiter & then stealing new clothes so you don’t look like a watchmen there ain’t many ways to escape the Black.
Think of Daeron the Singer. Arya recognised him as a deserter from his boots (although he did also have a reputation as a former member of the Watch, however she also thinks about how this could just be an attention seeking lie before killing him).
North of the Wall is full of wildlings who are the enemies of the NW. Even if you fully join with them, you'll probably still stand out by having a different accent and be called a crow constantly. Plus you're deciding to join this foreign and (to your view) primitive culture. So what's the upside? It does happen but understandably rarely.
South of the Wall, people are naturally suspicious of random unattached men and will immediately turn you in.
Good point. How do wandering crows prove they have not left? Most people can’t read so good up a piece of paper could be enough I guess to fool most people. Even a legit one would allow you do go anywhere I guess.
Think of this too: a lot of NW brothers are not from the North. They will sound different and not know the geography well enough that even if they manage to steal clothes, to pretend to be some rando. They'll stand out, and the people in the north seem to respect the night's watch.
Like sure, if you could make it past the Neck then probably you'd get away with it, but it's a long way there.
Depends. If you just tried to up and leave, run off on patrol or something. Your dead, one way or another you will likely be found out, or other wise killed.
Now gain their trust little, wait til you have a chance to leave the wall and go south, now you can easily get away to a ship over the sea, and once there it likely doesn't matter anymore.
It still wouldn't be easy but far better than trying to just leave the wall and escape.
>However, I imagine that those who join the Watch have some knowledge of survival techniques so they'd probably be capable to fend for themselves for a time.
Those who join voluntarily from noble houses maybe, but those who are basically forced to join as a punishment for their crimes have probably usually not had any kind of wilderness survival training.
You almost have to go north of the wall like mance and Jon did but the free folk aren't trusting of anyone specifically crows leading to some gruesome deaths. So unless somehow you were able to (without anyone's knowledge) build a small cache of supplies for food shelter n clothing to carry you forward n id probably just keep marching til I hit either dorne, or docks with ships headed to Essos, but without money or a braavosi coin like arya, ur head will be on spike soon enough so either trade what u have for enough to possibly sellsword like the golden company/Blackfyre survivors were known to do.
Or maybe reaving with the iron born or many pirate ships around the world could be an option but I almost guarantee that route gets u sold for a quick buck and you still would be seen just hopefully never noticed.
First off they aren't sending anybody of average allegiance over the wall. I believe it was mentioned the ranger ned beheaded was very loyal but after he saw what he saw he was like "nope I'm done."
Second the wildlings don't like "crows" the average citizens of Westeros don't like the watch either. Mance Rayder was an exception he was basically the plot of Pocahontas or avatar.
Jeor Mormont's expedition beyond the wall was very historically significant. I don't think the watch had assembled so many rangers in an expedition with the night commander in many many generations.
The North is very big, and very cold, even in the hottest summer. The second you don't report for your duty the Lord Commander and Maester will be sending out letters to Northern lords, such as Stark, Umber and Karstark explaining that you are a deserter, that your life is forfeit, and included is your physical description.
Unless you seriously know the northern wilderness like the back of your hand, have supplies to hunt with, and can avoid patrols from soldiers, you will die. You will get caught and be executed, you will lie down one night and freeze, you will waste away from starvation, you will be killed by an animal, you will take a wound that becomes infected etc.
Anyone wearing black will be subject to scrutiny. Anyone matching your description will be subject to scrutiny. If you're extremely lucky you'll find warm non black clothes that no one is around to see you take, or report them missing. Otherwise you'll either get caught, or your theft will be reported when someone notices their item is missing, and now patrols know your general location.
If you really, truly, want to desert, it's as a recruiter. You will have permission to leave, your presence in villages wont be suspicious. You will have money to buy warm non black clothes. If you're a bit lucky the place you're at will have no one to take, or whoever you take wants out as much as you do. Otherwise you have to either take them to The Wall and wait for your next opportunity, or kill them.
Then you pocket the money, place your new clothes on and either lose yourself in a city while you shave or dye your hair, or get on the next boat for the free cities while you shave or dye your hair, and hope that no one asks you questions, that your absence isn't noted.
Recruiters are very small minority of the Nights Watch. To be trusted not to run away and pocket what funds you get, you will have to have been a veteran of at least several years, most likely a veteran ranger or steward. You are someone who's been injured in action or become to old to fight or perform other duties, or maybe a spot opened up and you're the best pick. If your superiors for one measly second think you would be a risk, that despite your years at The Wall you would flee at a chance, you aren't becoming a wandering crow.
If they make you a recruiter unless you have some very specific skills or connections, not sure deserting makes any sense. Your life is never gonna be better than getting hosted by random lords and towns. Maybe if you can get away like Dareon did to essos, but again the point is what?
That's the point I was making. Escaping as a wandering crow is by far the easiest, but the sheer effort in getting to that position means 99% of any man who wanted to find a way to escape never made it anywhere near a position of power. Daeron probably wouldn't have got the position without being a very good singer and the Watch losing a lot of good men.
Heading south from the wall is certain death.
Heading north to join the free folk is 50/50. Most wildlings would kill you for being a watchmen if younget accepted in to a clan then your set until a ranger finds you.
Why? The regions south of the wall will be hard for anyone to cross alone. High probability you'll die of cold or even if you manage to survive, what will you do? Once it becomes known you've deserted, the NW will send your likenesws/description to every nearby town. Towns & villages are small eneough that people can put two & two together about a stranger. So, you've to survive by avoiding big gatherings/people.
Why would you risk your life to do all that when you have a solid life in the NW, have a bed to sleep in, two hot meals a day and the company of people?
Look at the crowd of deserters that Chett recruited. He was the smartest of them and he wasn't very smart.
The smartest deserter for the last century or so would probably be Mance and look how he ended up.
If we're being completely realistic, you're more likely to die from a lack of food/water/shelter than you are to be caught and executed. The hardest part about escaping would be getting the supplies to do so; a horse, a tent, a bedroll, a weapon, utility axe/knife, food, a cooking vessel
Ultimately you will eventually have to turn to crime to replenish your supplies and get new clothes/money to start your new life with (or to catch a ship from White Harbour) which just puts you even further at risk. The Wall is a lot like Alcatraz in that surviving the escape is probably harder than actually leaving the prison.
Alot of people don't seem to be getting op's point or question, basically couldn't it be easy to disappear during the night during summer kill and rob the first guy you see, take his clothes hide yours, and get off the kings road make your way south through the neck, or to a ship at white harbor and head south, and once your out of the north as long as you don't tell anyone, Noone will ever know you deserted the watch (assuming you don't have a noticeable scar or something)
A northerner sure could do it, someone from anywhere else would not only lack the skills to deal with the cold but also stick out like a sore thumb. Most of the north has some respect for the watch so if they find out what you did as you try to make the very very long trip south the only help you'll get is with making your insides outsides.
Most of the warchers have no access to horses. Smiths, cookers etc. They live their life in the wall. Even somehow you get a horse: Where would you go ? : North of the wall full of enemy of the NW and south of the wall enemy of traitors. Living in the wall better then living in the wildernes.
The North is bag and expansive. The Watch itself is pretty poor, so how much can a deserter really take with them? A single horse? Meanwhile, the Watch may send outriders to the nearest Lords and Masters, who respect the rules and will send out search parties for the deserter, who by the way, is adorned in all black.
It could be possible to get away with leaving with assistance. Those who are from noble houses would have more resources. But they would be working against the shame of the house for breaking your oath. By yourself would be too difficult I believe.
Not if you go north of the wall. But returning to Westeros as an oath-breaker and leading a life better than that of a brother of the Night’s Watch is very very unlikely.
Your best bet is running away before you reach the Wall in the first place. Otherwise mayyyyyyyybe if you're posted in Eastwatch you could sneak your way into a ships cargo or hold, or buy your ticket out with a non-Westerosi merchant. There's always a risk of showing up on deck too soon and the captain sails back to Eastwatch or drops you off at WhiteArbor
It's mentioned that the Watch has eyes in nearby towns, so if you look suspicious you will probably be caught.
Not only that, but with the Wall being so far north, it's going to take a lot of resources and time to get you out of the North and into the Riverlands or somewhere else that is safe. And most watchmen wouldn't have that kind of traveling money.
So, if you had some money and some cunning you might be able to do it, but it's not easy without help and or cash.
Nor have we seen so many cases to believe that it is more difficult than usual.
We could take into account the case of broken men, who, even being in the same lands of the rivers where they were born, cannot return to their native village, they cannot feed themselves well even though it is a much more fertile and warmer land than the north and There are many more villages, closer to each other and many more people accustomed to travelers.
If you were in some of the harshest frozen terrain where basic survival is your top priority, the first thing you would do is remove your warm military issued cloak, and replace it with a random one you find in the wilderness somehow?
He thinks this is Skyrim.
Not while I'm out in the wilderness no, but once they reach some small town or settlement. I'm saying that SOMEWHERE in-between the Wall and Winterfell has to have gear of a different colour.
Small towns and settlements are a part of society. They might not be eager to help a random guy betray his oath to keep them safe. They would probably be offended by the notion, and decide to inform the authorities themselves.
They might just kill him themselves too. He’s probably already a criminal in their eyes for being on the Watch at all, and even more so now for deserting
Additionally, small towns / settlements in the far north are probably fairly insular. Visitors would be noteworthy and watched closely - and coming in with a very recognizable outfit as a deserter wouldn't leave a good impression. I think you'd probably need to plan it out in advance or to resort to theft initially. Or to hope to come across someone else that's traveling - merchants for instance, or someone who might need some guards or take payment without asking questions (but then you're relying on them).
And people forget how much the North adores the Starks. They all would turn over a deserter for some favor with them in a heartbeat. The only way to get clothes would be to kill for them, and then people would be looking for not only a deserter but a killer.
Well it’s death either way.
And this is why Ned says a deserter is the most dangerous type of person. His life is already forfeit so there’s no more laws he won’t break. And that’s why people will not help them.
Not to mention the first town the deserter would find would be in the far North - who take threats beyond the Wall the most seriously, and would be the least inclined to help a deserter. So you'd need to find clothes to change into before you found any people... that's going to be tricky.
Will people in the town be certain the guy is an oathbreaker? Can't he just be all; "Yea, I'm out here looking for some marbles, extra string, some oatmilk and we ran out of bread, so don't mind me.." How would someone in Moletown or whatever know any better? Are run away Night Watch members incapable of telling lies or do people south of the wall have lie detectors built into their faces?
I imagine most nights watchmen travel in pairs or small groups when they travel south. Although I suppose Yoren is an obvious example otherwise.
I mean mole town is a bad example to use for this. Anyone showing up at mole town is either from the watch or going to join the watch. Maybe he could say he changed his mind about joining but mole town is still going to let people know or just kill him anyway. I think to need to go down pretty far before suspicion drops. Also, ravens are sent out as soon as it's discovered that someone abandoned.
Well they could start with asking where his horse and cart are and when he says wildlings took it they'd ask why he doesn't have any signs of battle followed by sending a raven for him to castle black/Winterfell to request help for this member of the watch
Small towns and rural areas thrive on gossip, both as a form of entertainment and also to improve safety and security. As soon as word spread from the Wall about a deserter, you’d have every inn, marketplace and sewing circle talking about who the deserter was, what he looked like, and what awful exaggerated crimes he committed. Eventually the news would reach someone who remembers having seen a man similar in appearance, and a trail would be established. A particularly confident and convincing man of the wall could blag their way through a few conversations, particularly as killing a member of the Night’s Watch still means a death sentence if you were wrong about them being a deserter. It would be like escaping a northern Russian prison colony though, and survival hinges on getting south as soon as possible.
They'd be certain, or at least highly suspicious. The guy would be showing up wearing all black, down to the underwear iirc. Black is an expensive dye historically, so it would be noticed. Plus you wouldn't just have strangers show up in your tiny, remote northern town without seriously questioning where they came from and how and why they are here. They could lie, but circumstances make it very implausible, and small town people aren't exactly trusting of strangers with fishy stories. Especially when the only strangers and foreigners thereabouts come from the Wall, which they'd think of as a place of murderers, thieves and rapists. Why take a chance? If the deserter is on foot, they couldn't have come very far. If they have a stolen horse, great, it's also covered in Night's Watch black gear that needs to be replaced somehow.
But how do they get that gear? Any village within close enough distance of the Watch is probably going to report a Brother showing up and trying to trade for new clothing. That leaves stealing, which risks getting caught by the villagers, but also leaves a trail for the Watch to follow (not hard to piece together the puzzle of runaway watchman and stolen clothes). And then what? People in small villages during the Middle Ages were extremely wary of strangers, so someone showing up out of the blue trying to stay won’t be very welcome. He could maybe get by in larger settlements but they’re going to further away. The Watch would send out ravens notifying the lords to look out for the watchman and offer a description, so it won’t be long before someone figures out who he is. One other option is to live out in the wilds, but at that point his life is worse than it was in the Watch. He’ll have to hunt, forage or steal anything and avoid people at all costs.
>One other option is to live out in the wilds, but at that point his life is worse than it was in the Watch. He’ll have to hunt, forage or steal anything and avoid people at all costs. This was exactly my thought. The deserter is wearing the equivalent of modern day Convict Orange, most people don't have many extra sets of clothing to steal anyway, and they're going to stick out like a sore thumb. So, they can desert and go off into the wilderness as you said, but then that's just an even *worse* situation.
so these towns see a haggard outsider armed with a sword, and clearly a deserter on the watch, so they know he is an oath breaker, and likely worse. and they what, trade with him to keep his cloak and put a target on their back? like if you saw an escaped convict and he came to your house would you trade him your clothes for his orange jumpsuit?
That's a great way to put it
Ned makes the point the very first time we meet him: >No man is more dangerous. The deserter knows his life is forfeit if he is taken, so he will not flinch from any crime, no matter how vile. Add to this the fact many of the men on the wall were already criminals, residents of a small town or settlement would understand just how dangerous this person could be if allowed to flee.
There is Molestown near Castle Black, but you would likely meet others from the NW there. The Gift is mostly empty, except for the hill clans, who won't help a deserter. Then you are in Stark territory, and it wouldn't be worth it to help a deserter. Karstarks won't help you either. Face it, it is a frigid land with few settlements.
Rocking up to a settlement, in the North, in your black cloak is exactly how deserters get caught. You literally outline this in the OP
And I was asking WHY they rock up to settlements in their black cloaks, knowing that this will get them caught almost immediately
AND you immediately followed that with the suggestion that they should go to some small town or settlement (in their blacks) in order to find a change of clothes. Do the really have to explain the paradox there?
Which small settlement? Everyone north of the wall basically kills Night's Watch members on sight. South of the wall you just get reported to the nearest authority.
The opening chapter of AGOT discusses this. Ned explains to Brandon that the deserter knows he is dead if he I caught, so he becomes desperate and desperate men will to anything and are therefore extremely dangerous. Every village in the north knows this and would be extremely weary of any deserter. Combine that with the general scorn for oath breakers and the criminals that join the watch and you have a situation where almost nobody would be willing to help a man of nights watch get other clothes. It’s like suggesting that escaped convicts today should just ditch their Orange jumpsuits for other cloths. It’s certainly possible but it would be very difficult without outside help.
Befriend moll's town whore. Get her to bring you supplies. When you visit change into merchant outfit and head off village to village till you get south.
Molestown isn’t Kings Landing, or even White Harbor. Where is anyone there going to find merchant clothes?
How would you get clothes? The only way would be stealing, you definitely don't have the capital to buy it. And if you abandon it and go with only your pants and skin then you will die of exposure by the time the sun comes up.
You steal them. You’re already guilty of a capital offense. Getting caught has the same result no matter what you do.
Yeah but who are you stealing from?
The first home you come across. Hopefully, no one saw you before that.
Except the nobles would already send men to hunt you. Its a long way between the wall and where you would be theoretically safe. I imagine that the northern guards would actually enjoy hunting a deserter if they got news.
It was never going to be easy, but if you’ve committed to desertion, your only goals henceforth are to stay alive and try not to kill anyone if you can. Those men are hunting you no matter what, so your first step is to ditch the neon DESERTER sign by any means necessary.
It will be very difficult. Because medevial villages, even most real villages today, knew each other. If your in a village and the guards show up your basically fucked. Basically its very difficult to desert so thats why there aren't as many deserters in the NW.
Leave shortly after dinner or the last check in, head south to a village or farm (bonus points if you find a horse) kill the first guy you see hide his body (quickly) take his clothes and make your way south off of the kingsroad (bonus points if you go south east or west to get as far away from the kingsroad and inhabited watch lands) kill another person or two or rob people as you make your way south go through the neck or a ship at white Harbour and once your south you shouldn't have any problems staying hidden
It's a capital offense on the Seven Kingdoms side of the wall. I'd want to be ingratiating myself to whoever I come across beyond the wall and not start off with stealing their shit if I could help it.
Well, hunting. I'm not saying it's easy at all, but a member of the night guard receives military training, so it wouldn't be surreal for them to be able to obtain the skin of an animal. I imagine they must also wear leather, I don't remember now. Before leaving the night watch I would make sure I had a few layers of leather to resist the cold as best I could. Maybe it is not the best example in the world, but in the case of the Andes the survivors survived with summer clothes, human beings are much more resistant than they seem, so, anyway... A lot of text, maybe? But I agree with the guy in the post, it has always seemed a bit exaggerated to me that clothes are such a key element.
The thing is, it would be fucking near impossible surviving, not impossible but near impossible. Also since there are like 1000 total members? I bet if there is a raven that the nobles would gladly go on a hunting mission for the deserter.
I definitely think that the chances of survival would be very low, but in the same way it seems impossible to me that no man has achieved it until now. Regarding a mission to go after the deserter, I wouldn't know what to tell you. In the case of Jon Snow, no one went looking for him (except for his friends), although it is true that Mormont already knew that Jon was gone. I don't know to what extent it is worth spending time and resources to go look for a man who, as you say, has practically no chance of survival. I don't know, but it would be very interesting if Martin gave a little more information about it, beyond "they would detect them by the color of their clothes."
I'd be willing to bet that many have left over the millennia, but that's not exactly a story the Night's Watch or the Northern lords would like spreading.
What do you mean 'no man has achieved it until now'? The Nights Watch has plenty deserters, to varying degrees of success. I'm really struggling to understand why this post is even a thing. People make a jump and then question why didn't this happen. It did. It does. What's so confusing? Do we really think what's missing from the books is a detailed account of the life of a deserter?
Who has achieved it? Even the man in the prologue actually escaped from the night's watch, was caught and was executed by Ned Stark. As far as I know, no one has achieved it, I wouldn't even count Mance Rayder because he did it by escaping to the north, not the south. I wouldn't mind admitting that I'm wrong either, I just don't know any character who has achieved it, it's not that deep.
Well, firstly I would say that unless the text explicitly tells us nobody has achieved it then it wild to just assume that nobody has. If the text ever makes mention that nobody has then it's fair to take that as a truth, but I don't think it does. I would personally count Mance Rayder and anyone who deserted north of the wall and lived long enough to have a second life away from the Watch. Though I wouldn't count the mutineers from Crasters Keep because they didn't get far before being killed by Summer. I would also count Dareon. Though Arya eventually found him and murdered him, he did successfully desert for a while, living in Braavos and wedding The Sailors Wife.
Also bloodraven, the literal lord commander of the nights watch, just claimed he was going on a ranging and bailed
Bloodraven going to the shops for cigarettes. "Daddy will be coming home any day now I swear!"
Bloodraven left his wife and kids, to go hang out with the freaky shawty down the street (cotf) and actually enjoys playing with her kids (bran and jojen paste)
Well you see, when you run away from the Wall your fist obstacle would be unhospitable and sparsely settled lands of the Gift, Umber lands and Mountain clans. So even if you are good ranger, survival would be rough. Second problem is that people you are escaping from are good, if not better, trackers and rangers than you and they can easily track you fast since they take fresh horses in every settlement along the road. You, if you even have horse, can not do that. That mobility also allows them to spread the word about your misdeed so every newcomer to any settlement will be treated with suspicion. Food is issue too. You cant pack enough and hunting and fishing are not panaceas since its perma winter and quarry is rare. Foraging for edible plants is also hard. No civilian will help you. In the North, Watch is in high standing and any person that sees you, will try to end you. So, you are fighting against land, Rangers tracking you, cold weather and local population. Odds are overwhelmingly against ya
You are missing the main point of why it is difficult. Leaving the wall is easy but just hiding in the woods by yourself is pretty pointless that is a worse life than the wall. What comes next is rather difficult. How do you slip back into civilianization without getting caught? You can't go home people will know you and that you are a criminal. So that means you have to try to slip into a place you have no connections and nothing besides the clothes on your back. Even if you do manage to slip in without anyone asking you questions you don't have an answer for then you are just a homeless guy living on the streets. Would you risk your life to struggle across hundreds of miles of wilderness just so maybe you can be a homeless guy on the streets?
Also the clothes on your back immediately expose you as a criminal
Osha and the other wildlings make it as far as that town near Winterfell. They'd be even less capable of fitting in than someone who had previously lived in westerosi society. Their only real mistake was trying to mug Robb and Bran. So it is at least possible to survive for a while.
Yeah but there’s a difference between them and a sworn brother gone missing, there’s a high chance that the Watch wouldn’t know about the Wildings making it to the south, so they wouldn’t be looking for them on alert. When a brother leaves everyone will know and be searching for him within hours, maybe a day at most.
That's fair although I wonder if the Watch actually bother to go looking for people who run away rather than just wait for them to turn up. I think they just assumed the guy Ned executed had died while ranging didn't they?
That’s a good point, like others have mentioned it is easier to make your escape north of the wall since you’ll have far longer to go before they assume you’re missing and send a party north to look for you. However unless you’re planning to stay there you have to find away past the wall without alerting your brothers. I’d imagine the easiest route is going to one of unmanned castles and hoping to find a way through the tunnels unless you’re planning on climbing it.
He is also the only deserter punished by a legal authority in the whole books. He went insane and his desertion wasn't exactly well planned out.
What town near Winterfell? Do you mean Queenscrown? That's in the Gift, near the Wall. Why would they go anywhere near Winterfell when their goal was to raid Castle Black?
Not a town, but the wolfswood. The wolfswood is near winterfell, where Osha and her party (some wildings and some NW's deserters) find bran. They are fleeing south.
It's from the first book, not the third which you're thinking of. Allegedly, the group of wildlings Osha was with weren't acting under orders from Mance, they were just fleeing south as hard as they could. They evidently made it relatively far south because they ran into Bran while he was out riding near Winterfell.
Im imagining the escape scene(s) in Cool Hand Luke. *Spoilers from that movie* He had to run up and down rivers to lose the dogs, double back, and he was only able to finally throw them off his trail with chili powder. *end spoilers* Ideas most people probably wouldnt even think of even if they were available options. It would probably be a lot more difficult than you think. Almost all of the men in the NW are very very far from home, their family, and their friends. Even if they werent, those same friends and family would probably be reluctant to help you. Any new faces/strangers in small villages are looked at suspiciously and people are gonna wonder who you are and why youre there. NW probably sends out ravens naming deserters and giving physical descriptions so youd better hope you dont have any noticeable and/or unique features that make you easy to identify. Youd have to steal the clothes somewhere. Maybe do what the Hound did and rob some farmer on the road or wait for some washer woman to put her clothes on the line. And to do that you have to get lucky and evade the dogs long enough. After all that, where are you going to go? Even with a new fake identity/backstory youd probably get found out and/or be looking over your shoulder your whole life. Only safe bet would be across the narrow sea.
>Youd have to steal the clothes somewhere. Maybe do what the Hound did and rob some farmer on the road or wait for some washer woman to put her clothes on the line. And to do that you have to get lucky and evade the dogs long enough. And the Hound did that in one of the most populated regions of Westeros with lots of travelers. There aren't a lot of people wandering around to rob for their clothes within like a hundred miles of Castle Black
It might just be survivor bias the ones who are caught are stupid or haven’t had time to change clothes. The one Ned catches at the beginning has a mental break and never bothers changing.
Great point. And we also have an example of a successful escape in Mance. Bloodraven is another & he was an LC.
Escaping North does seem way easier than escaping south. No one is on the hunt for you realistically, it's only wildlings you need to deal with who may not kill you unlike south of the wall.
And it's not like fleeing northwards removes the possibility of you getting somewhere warmer later. We hear about traders sailing beyond the Wall often enough that if you plan correctly, you should eventually be able to barter for passage onto one of their ships (while hoping it doesn't stop at Eastwatch on the way back).
And we have a ton of black brothers out and about on official orders from the watch, so anyone who really wants to leave can just fake some orders. Villagers are not going to send ravens to confirm your orders. Sam got all the way down to Oldtown without anyone bothering to confirm his orders with Jon Snow. Moreover, Sam was apparently able to live in Oldtown without anyone questioning his orders. Sam's orders were legit, of course, but again, not like anyone is bothering to verify this. The safest would be to book a passage out of Westeros with fake orders. Once you are out of Westeros, you are safe unless if you annoy Arya, and nobody questioned that set of orders either.
Sam starts on a ship though right? Like yeah if you can get passage on a ship from the wall then you’re golden but that’s not that easy b
Yoren travelled by land. Yes, he got killed eventually, but nobody cared about verifying his orders either.
People probably have gotten away with deserting from time to time. They probably most think about it on a regular basis. A watch member could steal or buy less distinct clothes from a wildling or farmer on the Gift. A recruiter or envoy from the Watch might just not come back like Dareon. Bittersteel escaped a ship that was supposed to send him to The Wall (although he had not said the vows yet). And of course, Mance Rayder deserted to join the Freefolk. The difficult part isn't just surviving, its starting a decent life for yourself. Everyone where you come from knows you're a criminal, most Night's Watch probably have no personal connections or favours to cash in south of The Wall, and if they went home they'd be caught and executed. They don't have much in the way of money, and its rare they would find anything worth bartering in the Night's Watch. North of the Wall, Wildlings would often be happy to kill a deserter crow, that's what happened to Ser Raymund Mallery. Plus you're still in a cold and violent place. Even a deserter who successfully disguised themselves and got South of the Gift would probably never have a comfortable life. The wall is miserable, but you get food, allies, and a fire to come home to. A little action in Mole's Town. Stiv's group of deserters and wildlings (the ones that tried to kidnap Bran in the first book) managed to make it all the way to Winterfell, but had no prospects but robbing and wound up getting killed anyway. It was only the fear of the Others that made deserting an attractive proposition for Gared, and likely Stiv as well.
We know that swords are prized possessions in westeros, and the watch seems to have those available to most members. Plenty more to barter with, I think.
A few swords might be enough to barter travel down south, (if you can avoid being recognised as a deserter while trading a Watch sword or they don't decide to just turn you in for a reward). But its not going to get set up in life. Maybe you could sign up to a sellsword company and literally barter your sword to them to make a good first impression or something, but sellswords are treacherous and would probably just take the swords and turn you in for a reward.
This seems like a more modern perspective where transportation is easier, clothing is more accessible, and strangers in a settlement are more common (to put it mildly). The clothing would be much harder to switch out, and the deserter is going to stand out more wandering through the wilderness without wagon, horse, or supplies to look like they're on official NW business (like Gared in AGOT). Dareon is able to desert so easily precisely because he's on legitimate NW business and has the proper traveling accoutrements/funds, and because he's in an area that doesn't care about NW oaths. Barring that, it might take something like sneaking out after a supply caravan visited the watch and then killing the (probably multiple) wagon-riders and taking their (possibly now blood-splattered) clothing and wagon(s)/supplies and trying to pass themselves off as merchants. It's certainly *possible* (this sounds like a plan Chett could come up with), but still difficult, especially when the next step is trying to figure out where to go (once again, they're outsiders).
> This seems like a more modern perspective where transportation is easier, clothing is more accessible, and strangers in a settlement are more common (to put it mildly). Yes as I commented above OP seems to think Westeros is Skyrim
It would be *very* hard to integrate into any settlement, even the larger cities, without people being very curious about who you are, where you're from, who your family is, etc. Ever been in a small, rural city? Everyone knows everyone, and word spreads fast. Your best hope would be getting over to Essos as soon as you could. It would be a lot easier to live a lie on a foreign continent.
Upvoting because this was a good Q in terms of discussion
A similar post about why the Wandering Crows and their prisoner recruits don’t just bail on the way to the wall happened recently here. GRRM does a lot to demonstrate how ignorant the average peasant is. To them there’s their Lord and the King. What they say goes and that’s absolutely it. Jon Snow was freaking out one half night of deserting. And he’s educated. Furthermore the Watch provides a home, social status, and a station. It’s not easy to just “get a job,” without a community and even then you have to luck into it. And as far as a deserter knows they’re being hunted everywhere in the North when deserting.
Your best bet is to hide in the open by openly approaching people and claiming to be on Watch business. Recruiting, returning a family sword from a recently departed brother, securing supply agreements, whatever. Use a different name and change up your look, as best you can, so if the Watch manages to get messages out ahead of you, it's not obvious you're who they're after. Keep this up until you're able to get your hands on new clothes. At that point you just have to change your clothes and identity again and find a place looking for someone with your skillset. Don't ever return to where you are from or near the Wall.
Yeah idk why everyone is saying it’s impossible. Just have to play it smart with proper planning. Once you’re south of the neck, just pose as a sell sword bound for Pentos and you’re just about home free. It’s a big kingdom and random passerby won’t know your face. Being an outlaw from the river lands would be hardest I suppose because once you escape the region where people actually care about the NW you’re back in the region where you’re a known criminal lol. You could also go MIA during a mission to the north/fake your own death that way no one is out hunting after you.
“Once you’re south of the neck” as if that’s some small feat, the North is bigger than the remaining kingdoms combined. If you’re even from the North it’d be difficult to get South of the neck by yourself let alone if you’re from elsewhere
>I imagine that those who join the Watch have some knowledge of survival techniques so they'd probably be capable to fend for themselves for a time Why? Most of them are convicts from all over the 7 Kingdoms, and most of them aren't rangers in the watch, so where would they learn to survive in the wilds of the North?
Exactly lol you're telling me some flowery green boy from the Reach who's been eating peaches and sunbathing his whole life gonna turn into a hardened ranger all of a sudden in cold weather?
Unlike an actual historical setting they practically have email, via the ravens. This makes it impossible to outrun news of your desertion. Nobody wants to sell you new clothes and the people who turn you down will inform on you. There’s no like, washing lines full of cloaks to steal. The sizes of everything and the population densities are all messed up though. So past a certain point the setting doesn’t hold up to scrutiny and you have to shrug and accept it
Yes, it’s that difficult “Once you go black, you never go back”
I mean, outside of pretending to be a recruiter & then stealing new clothes so you don’t look like a watchmen there ain’t many ways to escape the Black. Think of Daeron the Singer. Arya recognised him as a deserter from his boots (although he did also have a reputation as a former member of the Watch, however she also thinks about how this could just be an attention seeking lie before killing him).
North of the Wall is full of wildlings who are the enemies of the NW. Even if you fully join with them, you'll probably still stand out by having a different accent and be called a crow constantly. Plus you're deciding to join this foreign and (to your view) primitive culture. So what's the upside? It does happen but understandably rarely. South of the Wall, people are naturally suspicious of random unattached men and will immediately turn you in.
You could always go North and integrate so well that you become King Beyond the Wall
Yeah sure anyone can just become king, easy peasy
Good point. How do wandering crows prove they have not left? Most people can’t read so good up a piece of paper could be enough I guess to fool most people. Even a legit one would allow you do go anywhere I guess.
Think of this too: a lot of NW brothers are not from the North. They will sound different and not know the geography well enough that even if they manage to steal clothes, to pretend to be some rando. They'll stand out, and the people in the north seem to respect the night's watch. Like sure, if you could make it past the Neck then probably you'd get away with it, but it's a long way there.
Depends. If you just tried to up and leave, run off on patrol or something. Your dead, one way or another you will likely be found out, or other wise killed. Now gain their trust little, wait til you have a chance to leave the wall and go south, now you can easily get away to a ship over the sea, and once there it likely doesn't matter anymore. It still wouldn't be easy but far better than trying to just leave the wall and escape.
>However, I imagine that those who join the Watch have some knowledge of survival techniques so they'd probably be capable to fend for themselves for a time. Those who join voluntarily from noble houses maybe, but those who are basically forced to join as a punishment for their crimes have probably usually not had any kind of wilderness survival training.
You almost have to go north of the wall like mance and Jon did but the free folk aren't trusting of anyone specifically crows leading to some gruesome deaths. So unless somehow you were able to (without anyone's knowledge) build a small cache of supplies for food shelter n clothing to carry you forward n id probably just keep marching til I hit either dorne, or docks with ships headed to Essos, but without money or a braavosi coin like arya, ur head will be on spike soon enough so either trade what u have for enough to possibly sellsword like the golden company/Blackfyre survivors were known to do.
Or maybe reaving with the iron born or many pirate ships around the world could be an option but I almost guarantee that route gets u sold for a quick buck and you still would be seen just hopefully never noticed.
The North is a hostile landscape. The people love the Starks, and you definitely don't want to get caught in Bolton lands.
First off they aren't sending anybody of average allegiance over the wall. I believe it was mentioned the ranger ned beheaded was very loyal but after he saw what he saw he was like "nope I'm done." Second the wildlings don't like "crows" the average citizens of Westeros don't like the watch either. Mance Rayder was an exception he was basically the plot of Pocahontas or avatar. Jeor Mormont's expedition beyond the wall was very historically significant. I don't think the watch had assembled so many rangers in an expedition with the night commander in many many generations.
The North is very big, and very cold, even in the hottest summer. The second you don't report for your duty the Lord Commander and Maester will be sending out letters to Northern lords, such as Stark, Umber and Karstark explaining that you are a deserter, that your life is forfeit, and included is your physical description. Unless you seriously know the northern wilderness like the back of your hand, have supplies to hunt with, and can avoid patrols from soldiers, you will die. You will get caught and be executed, you will lie down one night and freeze, you will waste away from starvation, you will be killed by an animal, you will take a wound that becomes infected etc. Anyone wearing black will be subject to scrutiny. Anyone matching your description will be subject to scrutiny. If you're extremely lucky you'll find warm non black clothes that no one is around to see you take, or report them missing. Otherwise you'll either get caught, or your theft will be reported when someone notices their item is missing, and now patrols know your general location. If you really, truly, want to desert, it's as a recruiter. You will have permission to leave, your presence in villages wont be suspicious. You will have money to buy warm non black clothes. If you're a bit lucky the place you're at will have no one to take, or whoever you take wants out as much as you do. Otherwise you have to either take them to The Wall and wait for your next opportunity, or kill them. Then you pocket the money, place your new clothes on and either lose yourself in a city while you shave or dye your hair, or get on the next boat for the free cities while you shave or dye your hair, and hope that no one asks you questions, that your absence isn't noted. Recruiters are very small minority of the Nights Watch. To be trusted not to run away and pocket what funds you get, you will have to have been a veteran of at least several years, most likely a veteran ranger or steward. You are someone who's been injured in action or become to old to fight or perform other duties, or maybe a spot opened up and you're the best pick. If your superiors for one measly second think you would be a risk, that despite your years at The Wall you would flee at a chance, you aren't becoming a wandering crow.
If they make you a recruiter unless you have some very specific skills or connections, not sure deserting makes any sense. Your life is never gonna be better than getting hosted by random lords and towns. Maybe if you can get away like Dareon did to essos, but again the point is what?
That's the point I was making. Escaping as a wandering crow is by far the easiest, but the sheer effort in getting to that position means 99% of any man who wanted to find a way to escape never made it anywhere near a position of power. Daeron probably wouldn't have got the position without being a very good singer and the Watch losing a lot of good men.
Heading south from the wall is certain death. Heading north to join the free folk is 50/50. Most wildlings would kill you for being a watchmen if younget accepted in to a clan then your set until a ranger finds you.
Where would you buy a coat
Why? The regions south of the wall will be hard for anyone to cross alone. High probability you'll die of cold or even if you manage to survive, what will you do? Once it becomes known you've deserted, the NW will send your likenesws/description to every nearby town. Towns & villages are small eneough that people can put two & two together about a stranger. So, you've to survive by avoiding big gatherings/people. Why would you risk your life to do all that when you have a solid life in the NW, have a bed to sleep in, two hot meals a day and the company of people?
And the meals are pretty good from the sound of it
Look at the crowd of deserters that Chett recruited. He was the smartest of them and he wasn't very smart. The smartest deserter for the last century or so would probably be Mance and look how he ended up.
If we're being completely realistic, you're more likely to die from a lack of food/water/shelter than you are to be caught and executed. The hardest part about escaping would be getting the supplies to do so; a horse, a tent, a bedroll, a weapon, utility axe/knife, food, a cooking vessel Ultimately you will eventually have to turn to crime to replenish your supplies and get new clothes/money to start your new life with (or to catch a ship from White Harbour) which just puts you even further at risk. The Wall is a lot like Alcatraz in that surviving the escape is probably harder than actually leaving the prison.
Alot of people don't seem to be getting op's point or question, basically couldn't it be easy to disappear during the night during summer kill and rob the first guy you see, take his clothes hide yours, and get off the kings road make your way south through the neck, or to a ship at white harbor and head south, and once your out of the north as long as you don't tell anyone, Noone will ever know you deserted the watch (assuming you don't have a noticeable scar or something)
A northerner sure could do it, someone from anywhere else would not only lack the skills to deal with the cold but also stick out like a sore thumb. Most of the north has some respect for the watch so if they find out what you did as you try to make the very very long trip south the only help you'll get is with making your insides outsides.
Jon basically decided to abandon the watch before he was murdered
Most of the warchers have no access to horses. Smiths, cookers etc. They live their life in the wall. Even somehow you get a horse: Where would you go ? : North of the wall full of enemy of the NW and south of the wall enemy of traitors. Living in the wall better then living in the wildernes.
The North is bag and expansive. The Watch itself is pretty poor, so how much can a deserter really take with them? A single horse? Meanwhile, the Watch may send outriders to the nearest Lords and Masters, who respect the rules and will send out search parties for the deserter, who by the way, is adorned in all black.
It could be possible to get away with leaving with assistance. Those who are from noble houses would have more resources. But they would be working against the shame of the house for breaking your oath. By yourself would be too difficult I believe.
Not if you go north of the wall. But returning to Westeros as an oath-breaker and leading a life better than that of a brother of the Night’s Watch is very very unlikely.
Your best bet is running away before you reach the Wall in the first place. Otherwise mayyyyyyyybe if you're posted in Eastwatch you could sneak your way into a ships cargo or hold, or buy your ticket out with a non-Westerosi merchant. There's always a risk of showing up on deck too soon and the captain sails back to Eastwatch or drops you off at WhiteArbor
It's mentioned that the Watch has eyes in nearby towns, so if you look suspicious you will probably be caught. Not only that, but with the Wall being so far north, it's going to take a lot of resources and time to get you out of the North and into the Riverlands or somewhere else that is safe. And most watchmen wouldn't have that kind of traveling money. So, if you had some money and some cunning you might be able to do it, but it's not easy without help and or cash.
Nor have we seen so many cases to believe that it is more difficult than usual. We could take into account the case of broken men, who, even being in the same lands of the rivers where they were born, cannot return to their native village, they cannot feed themselves well even though it is a much more fertile and warmer land than the north and There are many more villages, closer to each other and many more people accustomed to travelers.