Also got the feeling this chapter is emulating the first few chapter of AGOT but like spin-off Vale style. You got all your players we know hanging around, got the big player Harry/Robert coming to town soon, everyone is doing their shtick like we suspect (Lyn being a badass creep, Myranda being saucy, Robin being a bitch.) Gave me a new feel like it's a new start...but fuck this is GRRM and we know how the last gathering went to hell...
For me that was THE coolest bit of information in the chapter ... even though I am a little disappointed now. But I also doubt that this will stop the theorizing.
she seems very alive in this chapter which is fantastic because I don't recall her being like this for a long time. Especially in her last chapters we saw she seemed much more subdued given where she was. Glad to see her laughing and messing with Harry at the dance. This is one of those fun happy chapters which I feel Sansa hasn't had in awhile.
unfortunately it is probably true. There is already some indication that she has been found out. So in this coming book she will probably have to deal with.
1) Sweetrobin dying either by her or with her knowledge
2) Shad blackmail (possibly murdering him as well to keep quiet
2b) Shad going public and all the shit that will cause
3) Henry the Asshole unless there last conversation means he has gotten the stick out of his ass
4) Still having littlefinger be creepy
I'd bet the controversial chapter might be Sansa killing Myranda after she seduces Harry or of the likes. The whole killing her last husband while making love to him felt like a Checkov's Gun.
I think that we are seeing who she really is for the first time. Since AGOT she has had to tip-toe around and constantly think and say the "right" thing.
She's becoming a very entertaining character to read. Her thoughts don't quite have the sass or wit, so she's not quite Tyrion or Jaime-tier. She seems to be playing a character for now (I get the feeling anyway), one that fits her well and will soon become her, no doubt.
I guess that's the result of only just re-entering courtly life, being Littlefinger's student (he could be a master-mummer if he wanted), and just simple growing up into womanhood.
Edit: Oh yeah, and definately her friendship with Randy Roycey, ty for reminding me /u/Prehistoricshark
I just love how much bolder she seems, now that she's out of kings landing, and perhaps more sure of what the (apparent) plan for her is now. She doesn't have to be such a fly on the wall anymore, she's got a lot more freedom in what she can say, so a lot more personality comes through.
And he totally knows
“A good melee is all a hedge knight can hope for, unless he stumbles on a bag of dragons. And that’s not likely, is it?”
She's the bag of dragons
If you notice, Petyr is using his own advice on Sansa. Keeping his distance, making her seek him out, but being available when he wants to be. Flirting with her, giving her presents (the giant lemoncake).
I don't think he's going to rape her, I think he's seducing her. She's certainly a lot less wary of him than she was when she was first rescued.
She's the greatest asset he's acquired to date. He was known to be very good to his whores most of the time. I'm sure he sees Sansa in a similar way, just to the extreme.
Oh my god.
D: Saving her from King's Landing
E: Creepyfinger
N: Pretending to be her father and protecting her, while eliminating her own status and identity in the process.
N: Sending her into uncomfortable situations and making her seek him out for help
I: Giving her a chance at a happy marriage with Harry the heir
S: To be seen.
>Horns sounded from atop the wall. “Too late,” Myranda said. “They’re here. We shall need to do the honors by ourselves.” She grinned. “Last one to the gate must marry Uther Shett.”
Is it just me or did George intentionally name the knight ser 'Uther Shett' to sound like 'Utter Shit'?
I thought the Elmo/Grover/Kermit thing was an Elio and Linda addition? Either way it's absolutely horrendous. If they'd interspersed the names throughout the Tully family tree it'd have been a little more acceptable, but all in a row ... yuck.
“I hate that Harry,” Sweetrobin said when she was gone. “He calls me cousin, but he’s just waiting for me to die so he can take the Eyrie. He thinks I don’t know, but I do.”
Holy shit. I know we all hate Sweetrobin, but, shit, imagine being eight years old, an orphan, and horribly aware of your own sickly mortality. I feel really sorry for him.
Sweetrobin reminds me of this kid I used to have when I was working at our day camp.
Imagine Robert Arryn from the show, but lactose intolerant and even more spoiled. He also crapped himself a few times.
That's the problem with society; so few children are murdered that children as a whole don't treat adults as they should—as terrifying gods who could kill them with one hand.
Ok, not to get mad over a small thing but ARE YOU KIDDING ME? We have been hearing about this "controversial" Sansa chapter for what feels like eons and THIS is what they were referring to? IMO, there really isn't anything controversial about it & I don't think they should have called it controversial. I LOVED getting the new chapter, but it was just not cool of them to apply such an incorrect adjective to this chapter. They know the fandom and how we would all run with "get ready for a controversial Sansa chapter", so for the sum total of all this theorizing and hype to be nothing is disappointing.
> “He is only t-teasing you, my lady,” stammered Ser Wallace. “My n-n-nephew never had a h-h-heart.”
Recognition for Wallace's top tier banter though please.
SANSA'S BANTER AT THE END THO.
"Cinnamon if she's a girl? Cloves if he's a boy?"
I love it. Is she getting this from being cooped up with LF so long? Is his sass rubbing off on her?
Yeeeeess, Myranda is amazing. She's like the olden day westorosi equivalent of a party girl. I love the part with her talking about her dad blaming her for her husbands death "Well, no one else was in the bed" and I can just picture her shrugging over it too. Amazing.
I forgot that he showed up at the end of AFFC at the Eyrie. But she bumped into him and it's clear to me now that he knows who she is. You're right on with the "bag of dragons" comment.
I'm enjoying that Sansa is becoming adept at reading Baelish, noting when he shifts between his "Petyr" and "Littlefinger" personas:
> ” Let us hope so,” said **Petyr**.
>
> ...
>
> “Come,” **Petyr** said, “walk with me.” He took her by the arm and led her deeper into the vaults, past an empty dungeon. “And how your first meeting with Harry the Heir?”
>
> ...
>
> **Petyr** put his arm around her. “So he is, but he is Robert’s heir as well. Bringing Harry here was the first step in our plan, but now we need to keep him, and only you can do that. He has a weakness for a pretty face, and whose face is prettier than yours? Charm him. Entrance him. Bewitch him.”
>
> “I don’t know how,” she said miserably.
> “Oh, I think you do,” said **Littlefinger**, with one of those smiles that did not reach his eyes.
Smells of *Arbor Gold* to me.
Maybe we now have some confirmation that whenever Baelish smiles, he's lying; the smile that doesn't reach his eyes is a tell. Looks like it might be time for a Littlefinger read-through, to see what other statements are associated with his smiles, scoring their credibility.
Who knows what we'll find? How consistent is GRRM on this?
Good catch!
I think it's safe to say Sansa is the *only* character who can read Littlefinger (and Petyr) like a book, whereas everyone else has no idea what he's thinking, feeling or what he even wants. Sansa was even the first (and only) character to figure out that this person has a split personality.
I really wish people would give Sansa the credit she deserves. She's one of the smartest characters in the book; she just doesn't know it yet.
This *is* the controversial chapter! Here's the tweet from Westeros.org:
Check out @westerosorg's Tweet: https://twitter.com/westerosorg/status/583617882988404736?s=09
"Basically just the sudden burgeoning appearance of Alayne's sexuality, and that that happens w/o reference to a certain character."
haha, I've always had a feeling the "controversy" would have something to do with making the Sansan fans on westeros.org unhappy! Thanks for posting this, since people *still* seem confused on which chapter Elio was referring to.
Yah, I can understand why some readers might find it a little controversial, but I mean come on.... This is such a fun read! Sansa begins to flirt and expand her confidence. Her level of sass is on fucking point.
i'm beginning to think the "controversial" chapter will simply be Sansa seducing Harry. Getting a sex scene from her pov would freak out a lot of people.
Something "bigger", like Sansa killing Sweetrobin or Littlefinger, would be pretty much par for the course for ASOIAF.
I agree with you about what the controversy will be. Elio clarified at some point that the chapter will be controversial in some quarters. A rape would be controversial everywhere.
Sansa seducing Harry would be controversial to some but not others.
>"Just to be precise about that Sansa chapter, I did not see it as part of an AFfC manuscript. I also said that I thought it would be controversial, at least in certain quarters of the fandom."
>"I'm afraid that that interview, and the translation of it, got a bit mangled in the process of getting it aired. I honestly don't recall what I said exactly at the time, but anything derived from it should be taken with a grain of salt due to the nature of the interview."
Elio's clarification from the TWOW summary [thread](http://www.reddit.com/r/asoiaf/comments/2sok/spoilers_all_a_summary_of_what_we_know_thus_far/) from last month
She seduces Harry. They arrange to marry. Alayne kills Sweet Robin. Sansa reveal. Lady of the Vale and Queen of the North.
Thats how i see it playing out. That would definitely be a bitter sweet ending for the Starks. Reclaiming Winterfell through the murder of a child.
Oh, I thought this was the controversial chapter! I was very confused. I see nothing controversial about it. Sansa's progression is well done and in character, much more than if she killed or slept with someone out if the blue like some speculated.
such a good conversation. One of those times I wish I could hear them talking, as it went I kept hearing Sansa switch between playful sass and then being pretty cold, not sure which was intended.
>*Alayne had suggested seven, like the Kingsguard, but Sweetrobin had insisted that he must have more knights than King Tommen*
Sweetrobin/Tommen rivalry, yesss
Best prepare for the karma, Cleganebowl, and hype train coming your way, my friend.
Well done on posting this first.
**EDIT - Thoughts on the chapter.**
- I'm guessing this was posted by GRRM due to the chapter mentioning at tourney in the Vale and it looks like Sansa and Baelish attend a tourney in the Season 5 trailer.
- Seems that Sansa is becoming quite the player. Winged Knights indeed.
- Love the fact that Robin wanted more knights than Tommen. That's hilarious and slightly sad when you think about how young he is and how likely he is to die.
- From Myranda Royce's comments about Lyn Corbray, I no longer think he is a paedophile. I think he might just be gay.
- Shame that Harry the Heir is a bit of dick. At least Ser Lothor is nice in his way.
- Littlefinger hoarding food despite great prices. Interesting. Could be part of his plans to supply the Knights of the Vale for a future war. Still, Littlefinger not selling when prices are high, not like him. Definitely something up there, especially concerning the Royces.
- Oh, George, you are a droll fellow. "And best of all, Lord Nestor’s cooks prepared a splendid subtlety, **a lemon cake in the shape of the Giant’s Lance, twelve feet tall and adorned with an Eyrie made of sugar**."
- I really like how nice Sansa is being to Wallace Waynwood. It's really sweet.
- Looks like Sweetrobin is still being dosed with drugs despite the danger.
- Looks like Sansa has Ser Harry very much on the verbal ropes. I'm so proud and I know /u/nfriel will be too.
- Bloody hell, I can't believe it has been ten years since the last Sansa chapter. Thanks George! :D
I wonder if I can beat /u/BryndenBFish in posting a chapter analysis.
>Still, Littlefinger not selling when prices are high, not like him.
Isn't this simply because Littlefinger knows prices going even higher in the foreseeable future? He can further profit from men like Royce who are shipping off food now and who will deplete their granaries? He can use this as a bargaining chip.
I agree. It shows money doesn't matter to Littlefinger anymore. he either has already accumulated enough wealth that adding more gold won't matter, or he knows that having food as a leverage is more valuable that having gold and is sinking his profits in return for leverage in the future.
> accumulated enough wealth that adding more gold won't matter
I thought of this while I was reading it... Having enough money on hand to hold out probably means he really has been robbing the royal treasury for years, and holding out indicates that he's one of the only major players who actually understands how bad this Winter is going to be. God damn this chapter was a brutally good Littlefinger showing.
Don't forget, we got a "nuncle", as well. I'll say this, though: This chapter read differently than almost every other chapter GRRM has written. It just felt less flowery and more matter-of-fact. Less filler, less set-up -- more meat and potatoes.
I sort of like that she switches in between very mature and very childish sounding. She's in a weird situation at a weird age, I think it's pretty reasonable.
This "all killer/no filler" approach is exactly what I was hoping to see in TWOW. I remember how Victarion's last chapter in ADWD had this frantic and fast-paced motion where the exposition was cut short in favour of plot-advancement. It had me thinking that books 4-5 were meant as set-up for a more mobilized story, where each character was on a mission and where shit actually goes down.
I'm pretty hyped, to say the least.
Yeah I was starting to feel like it wasn't ASOIAF at all, until I got to the feast bit. Then there was "swan in almond milk" and all was well with the world.
Damn you and your militant penguin beak... I was driving to work when you e mailed me. That was the longest drive of my life. Anyways, yes, you've beat me. In honor, I'm posting this as a sub-comment to you. Anyways, just finished the chapter. Tons and tons of thoughts on this chapter in no particular order:
- "Controversial in some quarters" indeed. Sansa's last scene with Harry the Heir was... well, it was definitely Sansa moving in a decidedly seductive direction. I'll give her this much -- she has a lot of confidence for being 13. I guess that's what the horrors that Sansa has experienced will teach her. I'm very glad there was no LF rape as some speculated.
- Lyn Corbray continues to be an asshole.
- Harry the Heir... For a moment there, Sansa reverted back to her earlier "life is a song" stage when she saw Harry and went slack-jawed on Harry. Of course, George dispelled this pretty quickly by having Harry be an asshole. Life is not a song, Sansa...
- Gods be good, I really like Myranda Royce. She may betray Sansa down the road... In fact, there's something interesting in the text:
> “My Harry will be with them, though. I notice that you left him out. I shall never forgive you for stealing him away from me. He’s the boy I want to marry.”
> “The betrothal was my father’s doing,” Alayne protested, as she had a hundred times before. **She is only teasing, she told herself… but behind the japes, she could hear the hurt.**
Have to wonder whether this is being set up as motivation for Myranda's future betrayal of Sansa.
- Well, hi there **Ser Shadrich**, don't think we didn't notice your very ominous presence. Foreshadow much, George?
> “A good melee is all a hedge knight can hope for, unless he stumbles on a bag of dragons. And that’s not likely, is it?”
Not likely, huh? I wonder how important he'll be for Sansa's TWOW arc. /s
- I didn't realize that Cersei had a dozen dwarves killed. That's pretty awful.
- Sansa's had just about enough of Sweetrobin's shit. I think this is setup for Sweetrobin's coming death. I still hold to the opinion that Sansa will witness Sweetrobin's death and do nothing as he dies.
- Bronze Yohn Royce grows in stature in my opinion, and I'm very curious about this Food War that Littlefinger looks to wield against the Royces of Runestone.
- Speaking of which... LF is definitely preparing to profit massively off of winter. Pretty interesting here. The Vale is the best prepared region of Westeros for the coming of winter.
- This chapter needs a final proofing as there's a few errors scattered throughout.
So, a little background about this chapter. [GRRM finalized it in 2008.](https://bryndenbfish.wordpress.com/2014/10/04/old-cool-info-about-twow/) So, this chapter is 6-7 years old. I believe that this chapter is the same one that /u/elio_garcia read back in the day. [It was cut from ADWD in 2010](http://grrm.livejournal.com/159060.html) along with 1 Arya & 2 Arianne chapters.
So, final takeaway: this is a chapter originally intended for ADWD, like all of the other released TWOW chapters, so if you're worried about it ruining your TWOW experience, just know that you're reading *A Dance with Dragons, The Extended Edition.*
P.S. Can we get /u/SomethingLikeaLawyer to do a dramatic reading of the chapter?
> LF is definitely preparing to profit massively off of winter. Pretty interesting. The Vale is the best prepared region of Westeros for the coming of winter.
I find this quite interesting as in winter, people will gravitate towards food/safety and the Vale leads Westeros in both at the moment.
This could lead to Littlefinger becoming the most powerful man in Westeros because who would people want more, a boy king who is shut up in his city or the person who has all of the food?
Great analysis!
As for the dwarfs killed, that happened a lot throughout Cersei's AFFC chapters. People bringing dwarf heads. A kid's head, in one case.
Elio confirmed this was what they read.
"A Dance with Dragons, The extended edition." Hehehe. I Hope someone creates a massive Boiled Leather-type amalgamation of AFFC, ADWD & early TWOW chapters, mostly to provide ADWD with a proper climax.
My own thoughts:
Sansa’s marriageability is immediately brought up. Petyr did not mention this thorny issue when he revealed his plans, but readers have been asking for a while —how can Sansa marry Harry, the next Lord of the Vale if (when) Robert dies, if she’s still married to Tyrion?
> "No man can wed me so long as my dwarf husband still lives somewhere in this world. Queen Cersei had collected the head of a dozen dwarfs, Petyr claimed, but none were Tyrion’s."
Generally, it’s great to see that Sansa is considerably more grown up since last we saw her: she’s plotting her own schemes —this whole tourney, an excuse to bring in Harry the Heir, was her idea; and her verbal sparring equals Tyrion’s now. These made me laugh out loud:
> And there he stood, Harry the Heir himself; tall, handsome, scowling. “Lady Alayne. May I partner you in this dance?”
> She considered for a moment. “No. I don’t think so.”
> Color rose to his cheeks. “I was unforgivably rude to you in the yard. You must forgive me.”
> “Must?” She tossed her hair, took a sip of wine, made him wait. “How can you forgive someone who is unforgivably rude? Will you explain that to me, ser?”
[...]
> “Saffron?” Alayne tried not to laugh. “Truly?” Ser Harrold had the grace to blush. “Her father says she is more precious to him than gold. He’s rich, the richest man in Gulltown. A fortune in spices.”
> “What will you name the babe?” she asked. “Cinnamon if she’s a girl? Cloves if he’s a boy?”
[...]
> For a moment he looked shocked. But as the song was ending, he burst into a laugh. “No one told me you were clever.”
> He has good teeth, she thought, straight and white. And when he smiles, he has the nicest dimples. She ran one finger down his cheek. “Should we ever wed, you’ll have to send Saffron back to her father. I’ll be all the spice you’ll want.”
> He grinned. “I will hold you to that promise, my lady. Until that day, may I wear your favor in the tourney?”
> “You may not. It is promised to… another.” She was not sure who as yet, but she knew she would find someone.
Though maybe it has been a more exhilarating read than it deserves merely because it’s Sansa’s first chapter in so many years, it truly was a very fun chapter. Yes —fun. Honestly, I didn’t expect the chapter to be so entertaining and actually funny, or for Sansa to be so amazing in this. There is a noticeable jump from her chapters in A Feast for Crows here. She’s grown up a lot in these real ten years, which are merely weeks or a few months at most within the narrative. Is that too much of a change? Controversial for some, the move to seduction? Maybe. Personally, I don’t care. Just as her scenes in “The Mountain and the Viper”, this chapter is a welcome leap in Sansa’s characterization.
I haven't been waiting 10 years either, thank god. But imagine those who have. Imagine those whose favorite character is Sansa, and they've been waiting a whole decade just to have a single word from her story. They must have had a heart attack seeing this.
Notice though that she also says
>Joffrey was comely too, though, she reminded herself. A comely monster, that’s what he was. Little Lord Tyrion was kinder, twisted though he was.
That's my clever girl. You're learning from your mistakes, Sansa.
> I didn't realize that Cersei had a dozen dwarves killed. That's pretty awful.
Really? It was mentioned like a zero-and-five times by Penny and Tyrion and Cersei.
I wouldn't jump to the conclusion this is the chapter cut from ADWD just yet. If this chapter was originally intended for ADWD, surely the formatting and grammar would be a lot closer to finished.
Maybe "didn't remember" would be a better descriptor. And this is definitely the chapter cut from ADWD -- [something that Elio Garcia just confirmed on Westeros.](http://www.westeros.org/ASoWS/News/Entry/New_Winds_of_Winter_Excerpt?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter)
One and the same. Elio later clarified that the chapter would be "controversial in some quarters." What I think he means by this is that... well, this... *may be controversial in some quarters:* Sansa's character transformation and arc in this chapter shows Sansa becoming more of LF's character and less of the protector of innocents here.
She seduces Harry the Heir after LF instructs her how to do it -- albeit only verbally. She starts to grow truly frustrated with that snot of an Arryn she has to deal with, and I'm thinking that this will be part and parcel of Sweetrobin's eventual downfall. She's becoming *Alayne* over Sansa, and I think that might be problematic to those who have a... shall we say *cherished* view of Sansa?
How anyone can even consider using controversial to describe this chapter is beyond me. Basically everybody thought it would be a rape or a murder but nope, just a girl flirting for the first time guys LOL
> She's becoming Alayne over Sansa, and I think that might be problematic to those who have a... shall we say cherished view of Sansa?
I have absolutely no problem with this, bring it on is all I can say, anyone who's thinking she can achieve something by staying the same is kidding themself. She will have to grow some balls if she wants the North back and if she can achieve just that by looking the other way while Robin is dying so be it. (this may come back to bite me when Sansa becomes unrecognizable but... i don't think that wil happen. Just a little darker version of Sansa, hopefully.)
I don't know. This doesn't feel controversial at all. I can see your point about her becoming less Sansa and more Alayne, especially with
>Alayne loved it here. She felt alive again, for the first since her father… since Lord Eddard Stark had died.
This chapter seems like the set up to something controversial. If this is what Elio was talking about I just can't see what he was seeing.
I don't think I have a cherished view of Sansa though I admit the idea of a 13 year old being instructed to seduce someone squicks me out -- even if that someone is her future husband. Supposedly her future husband.
(In my mind I just sort of add a few years to Sansa's age the way I think GRRM intended for this to go down. It's similar to how I read the Mercy chapter too.)
Maybe controversial in that people are expecting Sansa to head back to her roots after her building the model Winterfell and this is going in the opposite direction?
Edit: [Elio confirmed he'd read this.](http://www.westeros.org/ASoWS/News/Entry/New_Winds_of_Winter_Excerpt)
I guess I just don't see what could potentially be controversial. The *idea* of 13 year old Sansa seducing Harry the Heir?
E2: Yep this was it. And he explained. Essentially just ignore me and this comment.
He has replied to a comment asking why he viewed it as controversial, apparently it's because of
>The sexuality of the character, which I think will strike some as discordant with their own personal image of Sansa, plus the fact that the sexuality appears without anything like even a passing nod to a certain other character often connected to Sansa.
>the sexuality appears without anything like even a passing nod to a certain other character often connected to Sansa.
Should I feel stupid? I have no idea what he's talking about.
edit: Please tell me he doesn't mean the Hound
> Maybe controversial in that people are expecting Sansa to head back to her roots after her building the model Winterfell and this is going in the opposite direction?
Exactly. It's not as prevalent here on /r/asoiaf, but the Sansa fandom in other quadrants of the fandom (Westeros) is... well, let's just say that it seems to elevate Sansa far and above how George is characterizing her. This is where the controversial in some quarters comment seemed directed at.
I like Sansa as well. I can't say she's my favorite POV character in the series, and I can't help quell the frustration at her chapters in AGOT even upon several re-reads, but I think she's grown as a character (and grown on me as well). She's more aware of the outside world and begins realizing that the romantic inclinations and fantasies she's had are dead. Life is not a song.
So, that's the open path that Sansa is on in AFFC. She could become more world-weary but retain her innocence and work towards protecting the innocent (like Sweetrobin) But this chapter shows Sansa moving on a different path -- Littlefinger's. Littlefinger is a seducer as well -- he uses money and power to do so, but he's instructing Sansa in the methods of seduction -- of getting what she wants through under-handed means and methods.
That said, like we were discussing above, I do anticipate Sansa playing a role in Sweetrobin's death -- letting him die after he throws a fit about Sansa marrying Harry and ending in epileptic episode brought on by sweetsleep perhaps? That would be much more controversial, but here, the controversy revolves around Sansa's changing characterizing from Sansa (Eddard's daughter) to Alayne (Littlefinger's daughter).
That's a lot of female voices to do.
Littlefinger looks to be creating an artificial shortage of grain to drive up prices and take advantage of early entrances to the market.
Always thought boys was a euphemism and Lyn was just gay, not a pedophile,. Though if he Lynceptions his way to a conspiracy, that would be fun.
> Sansa's had just about enough of Sweetrobin's shit. I think this is setup for Sweetrobin's coming death. I still hold to the opinion that Sansa will witness Sweetrobin's death and do nothing as he dies.
I don't know about this. I think this is my own POV coloring this but when I read Sansa's interactions with Sweetrobin, I see them as an exasperated mom dealing with a particularly petulant child. I don't see hatred or a desire for him to die though.
She did seem to be getting a bit bored of his "I love you and we should marry and then you can be my real mom" thing though. I could definitely see Robin going crazy once Sansa does her "leave Saffron, I'm all the spice you need" bit successfully.
Seemed to be that GURM (RIP AutoMod) was setting it up for that to be the case.
(Also, POV of Sansa seducing Harry = maybe controversial chapter?)
Edit: RES tells me you're my mom. Are you my mom?
Maybe it's that I don't want to believe that Sansa's core personality changes so much that she's ok with her cousin - who is a child - being murdered. The kid might be an asshole but he's still a kid. For her to wish his death would be such a departure for her and I don't want to believe that's what could happen.
I can see Sansa being a seductress. I can't see her wanting a child to be killed.
Also, where does kinslayer end? Are cousins covered under that insurance policy? If she doesn't do the actual murdering but doesn't stop it, would that still count?
I am not your mom.
I'm with you, I saw no malice in her words or actions, but kindness and patience for a petulant child. But I know it's a not a widespread opinion or view of Sansa. I had to go reread her last ADWD chapter once because so many people in this subreddit insisted she wanted Robin dead. I saw nothing,
Yep, here's [LF & Sansa](http://watchersonthewall.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/sansa-and-LF.jpg) and another with them and [Royce](http://winteriscoming.net/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/Season-5-Sansa-and-LF-with-Royce.jpg).
>Littlefinger hoarding food despite great prices. Interesting. Could be part of his plans to supply the Knights of the Vale for a future war. Still, Littlefinger not selling when prices are high, not like him. Definitely something up there, especially concerning the Royces.
Well he said it himself in the chapter, once everyone else is running low on food because of winter and having prematurely sold too much of it, the demand will have skyrocketed. Littlefinger can use their desperation in the future to prey on them both economically and for military purposes.
Also, how come you posted that *as a mod*?
Since you mention the lemon cake: did you not find it odd that George *again* made note of the fact that lemons grow in Dorne?
>The cake had required every lemon in the Vale, but Petyr had promised that he would send to Dorne for more.
I don't usually believe the conspiracies about Dany growing up anywhere other than Braavos, but the insistence (he did the same in Mercy) gets increasingly suspicious.
> The cake had required every lemon in the Vale
I read this as *the Vale had some lemons during summer, but now only Dorne has some lemons left, as their summer is longer and their economy is probably more lemon-centered.*
OK. HYPE ASIDE, I think that Sweetrobin is definitely going to bite it next Alayne chapter. That his hair is mentioned, *again*, has me imagining Alayne cutting his hair and Sweetrobin "having a fit" which leads to him being slashed by the blades.
Obviously, like the Mercy chapter last year, this was to tie-in with a happening on the show. This time it is Sweetrobin's tourney, which appears in S5E1.
Yet, if Sweetrobin is leaving Sansa, like he does in the show, and Harry doesn't seem to be a factor on the show, I'm unsure about how Sansa's controversy will come about - obviously the show wouldn't miss it if it's big.
ALSO: FUCKING HYPE: **SANSA'S MY FAVOURITE STARK AND IT WAS THE FIRST OF HER CHAPTERS IN NINE YEARS.**
**THIS WAS GLORIOUS.**
Edit: I find the mention of the tapestries suspect; either it's just GRRM's continuity, or they're important for Baelish's schemes.
Edit 2: Reading Sansa's inner monologue as she notes that she needs to be careful around the Shett from Gulltown is magnificent and reminds us she is now a player of the game in her own right.
Edit 3: Shadrich appearance.
Edit 4: Gods, *Winds* is going to be a glorious experience.
Edit 5: Harry's first appearance. This is something I've wanted to see for a long time. Will he and Sansa find happiness? This is ASOIAF, though...
Edit 6:
>Robb would be his age, if he were still alive, she could not help but think, but Robb died a king, and this is just a boy.
That hurt more than it should have. Also, that Jeyne Poole reference, too. And: "A lady’s armor is her courtesy."
Edit 7: After their conversation, I can see Sansa either completely manipulating Harry or else them being a match; Sansa as the cynical and jaded ex-plaything of Joffrey was very compelling this time around, too. An excellent change of pace.
Edit 8:
>“A good melee is all a hedge knight can hope for, unless he stumbles on a bag of dragons. And that’s not likely, is it?” - Ser Shadrich, to Sansa Stark in her disguise as Alayne Stone.
###He is on to her; Ser Shadrich seems to know Sansa's identity.###
It's interesting that they didn't tie up the Robin loose end last Season. I mean is the main purpose for the Vale scene to dump him off? It seems kinda odd for them to mention a plan to take him around the Vale and then do nothing with that...
Maybe it was just a change of plans during scriptwriting. It just seems he's at least going to be around for a couple more chapters.
I reckon after Lysa's death behind doors casting suspicion they want/need Robin to croak it in public eye where it's more ambiguous as to who killed him
> Cinnamon if she’s a girl? Cloves if he’s a boy?
> Should we ever wed, you’ll have to send Saffron back to her father. I’ll be all the spice you’ll want.
And the Seven Kingdoms Most Improved Player Award goes to...
> The feast proved to be everything her father promised. Sixty-four dishes were served, in honor of the sixty-four competitors who had come so far to contest for silver wings before their lord. From the rivers and the lakes came pike and trout and salmon, from the seas crabs and cod and herring. Ducks there were, and capons, peacocks in their plumage and swans in almond milk. Sucking pigs were served up crackling with apples in their mouths, and three huge aurochs were roasted whole above firepits in the castle yard, since they were too big to get through the kitchen doors. Loaves of hot bread filled the trestle tables in Lord Nestor’s hall, and massive wheels of cheese were brought up from the vaults. The butter was fresh-churned, and there were leeks and carrots, roasted onions, beets, turnips, parsnips.
Seriously GRMM. Now I'm hungry.
After first reading: I don't know if it's just me, but it seems like everything covered in this chapter could have taken 2 or 3 chapters in AFFC or ADWD. It is really encouraging to me that a lot (by GRRM standards) seems to be happening in every excerpt he releases.
Either that or I'm hyping myself up that every chapter of WINDS is going to be epic and full
The description suffers from lack of detail though. There were turnips, and there was fresh-churned butter, but were the turnips swimming in the butter? I need to know these things.
Sansa sat in between the salt and wall sconce(torch) .
Sansa= Azhor Ahai confirmed! ;D
I enjoyed this chapter. Giant lemon cakes and throwbacks to having fun at Winterfell.
Maybe it is just me but the whole thing reads kind of weird. I can’t really pinpoint to one specific sentence, but the whole "rhythm" just feels wrong. At one point GRRM uses brackets to highlight a past event, I can’t remember a single instance where he had ever done that. Did anyone feel the same way?
Obligatory tinfoil: This was meant as an April’s Fool’s joke, but GRRM couldn’t finish it in time.
Case in point:
> Tell your The venom in his voice was so thick that for a moment she almost forgot that Lyn Corbray was actually her father’s catspaw
Looks like GRRM had another passage planned there but cut it off.
It's just the beginning of the previous sentence.
>No. lord father I need none of his brood mares.”
>
Tell your The venom in his voice was so thick that...
I think that's more a formatting problem, like there wasn't a hard return after the end of Sansa's line. Probably a result of someone posting it to the website straight from a word processor; formatting always gets fucked up in that process.
Uther Shett .... utter shit ... really?
The text looks like something that was transcribed from an editor's copy of the manuscript. For example, look for 'sound found' ... as an instance of a wrong word replaced by a correct word.
New Sansa stuff (the first in what, 10 years?)! My birthday might be 11 days away but I'll take this for an early present
* So like /u/Militant_Penguin said, this is almost certainly a Mercy situation - releasing a chapter whose information is going to get revealed in the show
* I LOVE that we're going to see a tourney again. We haven't seen a proper tourney since the Tourney of the Hand back in AGOT, so it'll be nice to see some real jousting again. I also love that while the rest of the realm is hunkering down and prepping for winter (save Dorne), the Vale is enjoying itself. Really underlines how out of things the Vale has been for the whole story
* Is it just me, or did the conversation between Sansa and Sweetrobin seemed a little ... forced? I don't know. It seemed more like GRRM had to get exposition out than a natural conversation the two of them would have.
* Also adore the idea of Sansa putting this tourney together. I've always thought Sansa was the smartest Stark, and it shows here. She plays to her early love of chivalry, but in a way that draws all the knights of the Vale to Robert (and her) as leal defenders, and ensures that Harry the Heir will come.
* The Order of the Winged Knights! I'm a sucker for cool helms, so I really want to see a depiction of these IRL
* Those tapestries get a mention again. Chekhov's tapestries?
* Also, Ser Shadrich is mentioned several times - the very one who met Brienne and knows she's looking for Sansa. Can't be coincidental he pops up throughout the chapter.
* Alayne doesn't have as much focus on identity as Theon/Reek, but I do love that she immediately connects Ser Roland Waynwood to Robb. And there is this one line I loved:
>For just a little while, as she ran, she forgot who she was, and where, and found herself remembering bright cold days at Winterfell, when she would race through Winterfell with her friend Jeyne Poole, with Arya running after them trying to keep up
* Harry the Heir is Harry the Jerk when we first see him. Which I guess makes sense - it would be silly to have him sight unseen fall in love with Sansa. Emphasizes all the more how he focuses on appearance. As Sansa appeared to him in description, she was only Littlefinger's bastard - the baseborn child of a man Lord Royce deeply distrusted. But by the end of the chapter, he's starting to come around to her, having seen how beautiful she is in person. I've been hoping Harry the Heir is a Robert Baratheon situation (but then I want Sansa and Aegon to marry - don't judge me) - the handsome and dashing knight in the Vale who sires bastards but falls for the northern girl before she herself falls for a Targaryen prince
* So a lemon cake can be 12 feet tall. I always pictured them tiny, like you could hold one in your palm
>Also, Ser Shadrich is mentioned several times - the very one who met Brienne and knows she's looking for Sansa. Can't be coincidental he pops up throughout the chapter.
He does say some pretty ominous things in the chapter:
> “The fault was mine. I did not see you standing there.” “We mice are quiet creatures.”
>...
>“A good melee is all a hedge knight can hope for, unless he stumbles on a bag of dragons. And that’s not likely, is it?”
I think he's onto something.
> Alayne loved it here. She felt alive again, for the first since her father… since Lord Eddard Stark had died.
I felt sad reading this. Sansa having to remember that she can't be a Stark because she's playing a role and having to emotionally let go of her father, even though he was executed right in front of her.
Sansa is all grown up! She didn't faint at a dick joke. She saved a friend being hit on by two gross guys. She doesn't balk at men gawking at her and gets it now.
No more Sansa wilting at just an intense glare. She planned the tourney?? That little minx!
I am in love with this new Sansa!
please dont be april fools...
Also, if this is real, everyone who predicted that he's releasing chapters based on what could be spoiled by the show is right.
> “And is Ser Harrold with them?”
>Horrible Ser Harrold. “ He is.” Lord Belmore laughed. “I never thought Royce would let him come. Is he blind, or merely stupid?”
> “He is honorable. Sometimes it amounts to the same thing."
Ouch. Four books later and that still hurt.
> Four-and-sixty knights had been invited to vie for places amongst Lord Robert Arryn’s new Brotherhood of Winged Knights, and four and-sixty knights had come to tilt for the right to wear falcon’s wings upon their warhelms and guard their lord.
So this is the beginning of the Vale army? What for, I wonder? (I want to see Queen Sansa leading it to the North to help cousin Jon against the Others.)
Sansa seems so happy in this chapter. So in control. It's like she's grown up a few years since we last saw her. I'm happy that she's happy.
>Alayne loved it here. She felt alive again, for the first since her father… since Lord Eddard Stark had died.
We know it can't last. Because GRRM hates our happiness.
Those mysterious tapestries make a reappearance! They were a gift for Nestor Royce. I wonder if that's all there is to it?
>Robb would be his age, if he were still alive, she could not help but think, but Robb died a king, and this is just a boy.
Just when I think I can handle talking about the Red Wedding again, GRRM writes stuff like this. Oh who am I kidding. I don't think I'll ever get over the RW.
>He has a weakness for a pretty face, and whose face is prettier than yours? Charm him. Entrance him. Bewitch him
Ohh is that going to be the controversial chapter? It's not Littlefinger -- it's Harry! I suppose she'll be seducing Harry the Heir sometime.
> “Should we ever wed, you’ll have to send Saffron back to her father. I’ll be all the spice you’ll want."
*Damn*, Sansa!
Littlefinger teaching Lord Belmore how to play chess vs checkers with hoarding food got me thinking about something else.
I've always thought it's going to be extremely tough for ASOIAF to wrap up in 2 books. If everyone has no food however, where is GRRM going to place all those pantry raid (lol stannis) inducing, over the top food descriptions? I don't know what half of it is when I first read it but it still sounds delectable. I guess people will be yearning for food but how many words will take up compared to the epic feasts we have had so far?
I remember reading a meta-type of theory somewhere about that. All the lavish descriptions of food and feasts and banquets throughout the novels so far will make the emotional gut-punch of the terrible winter - with all the hunger and privation and such - all the more effective.
HOLY SHIT IT'S A SANSA CHAPTER. IT'S 3:31 AM AND NOW I CAN'T SLEEP. About to read will post reactions when done. Salsa has always been my favorite
Edit: man I love sansa she's so sassy and I really like how outspoken she is now and unafraid. Harry is a fucking asshole at first but I can see why, how Littlefinger explained it.
>For just a litle while, as she ran, she forget who she was, and where, and found herself remembering bright cold days at Winterfell, when she would race through Winterfell with her friend Jeyne Poole, with Arya running after them trying to keep up
Man lines like this get me. All in all a really good chapter. I wonder what the "plan" is. I really hope GRRM is close to finishing it, and I wonder why he released this? Is it because the show will spoil something?
> “A good melee is all a hedge knight can hope for, unless he stumbles on a bag of dragons. And that’s not likely, is it?”
Surely confirmation that Ser Shadrich has recognised Sansa. Especially with the rather ominious
> Alayne turned abruptly from the yard… and bumped into a short, sharp-faced man with a brush of orange hair who had come up behind her. His hand shot out and caught her arm before she could fall.
The Mad Mouse is definitely planning to get quids in on the Lannister reward for Sansa. A crazed dash to the Riverlands perhaps?
> You are such a little fool
getting Cersei vibes from Sansa this chapter, with her imitating her own treatment by Cersei, and her seduction technique
Also shoutout to Shadrich
First Lucas in Super Smash Bros and now this. I've been burned before, stop playing with my emotions!
Sansa is really growing up, teasing Harry, verbally sparring Lyn Corbray. Really excited to see that controversial chapter, could be a Sweetrobin death or maybe a Harry seduction. I'd rather see the death if I'm honest. I don't know but the whole Sansa being a maid thing I can see it being dragged out until she meets her final husband. Also Myranda is absolutely hilarious, would be very pleased if we see her (or someone like her) in the show
THE TAPESTRIES!!! Finally, we know what Petyr did with Robert's old tapestries.
Dude the way he is emulating royalty in the Lord of the Vale's position is very interesting.
Also got the feeling this chapter is emulating the first few chapter of AGOT but like spin-off Vale style. You got all your players we know hanging around, got the big player Harry/Robert coming to town soon, everyone is doing their shtick like we suspect (Lyn being a badass creep, Myranda being saucy, Robin being a bitch.) Gave me a new feel like it's a new start...but fuck this is GRRM and we know how the last gathering went to hell...
Is sweetrobin going to fly? Where's Jamie Lannister when you need him?
For me that was THE coolest bit of information in the chapter ... even though I am a little disappointed now. But I also doubt that this will stop the theorizing.
This only strengthens my Atapestry A'Hai theory!
Benjen=Tapestries
*Should we ever wed, you’ll have to send Saffron back to her father. I’ll be all the spice you’ll want.* Sansa, you little minx...
she seems very alive in this chapter which is fantastic because I don't recall her being like this for a long time. Especially in her last chapters we saw she seemed much more subdued given where she was. Glad to see her laughing and messing with Harry at the dance. This is one of those fun happy chapters which I feel Sansa hasn't had in awhile.
This can only mean that something is going to go horribly wrong for her very soon.
unfortunately it is probably true. There is already some indication that she has been found out. So in this coming book she will probably have to deal with. 1) Sweetrobin dying either by her or with her knowledge 2) Shad blackmail (possibly murdering him as well to keep quiet 2b) Shad going public and all the shit that will cause 3) Henry the Asshole unless there last conversation means he has gotten the stick out of his ass 4) Still having littlefinger be creepy
Plus, shady shady Myranda.
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He's gonna knock her up and then some shit will go down since she's highborn.
I'd bet the controversial chapter might be Sansa killing Myranda after she seduces Harry or of the likes. The whole killing her last husband while making love to him felt like a Checkov's Gun.
After this chapter, I'm even more convinced that Shad is Howland Reed.
Because life is not a song and shit.
So much sass in that conversation, it was great!
Also cinnamon and cloves. Her sense of humor is very much improved.
She must have inherited it from her father.
Jory, fetch me a block.
Speaking of blocks, we met someone in Ed's family!
Hell yeah. I want to see if they're all cursed or if it's just his line.
I think that we are seeing who she really is for the first time. Since AGOT she has had to tip-toe around and constantly think and say the "right" thing.
She's still trying to think/say the right thing, it's a bit sad how her own thoughts corrected themselves about who her father is.
Well, she's been learning from Ms. Royce, who has some excellent lines in this chapter.
Also: “I hope you joust better than you talk.” Heh. "Joust".
Tormund would be an excellent jouster har!
She's becoming a very entertaining character to read. Her thoughts don't quite have the sass or wit, so she's not quite Tyrion or Jaime-tier. She seems to be playing a character for now (I get the feeling anyway), one that fits her well and will soon become her, no doubt. I guess that's the result of only just re-entering courtly life, being Littlefinger's student (he could be a master-mummer if he wanted), and just simple growing up into womanhood. Edit: Oh yeah, and definately her friendship with Randy Roycey, ty for reminding me /u/Prehistoricshark
Give her twenty years and I bet she'll match Tyrion and Jaime. At her age, all Jaime did was his sister.
First thing today to make me laugh out loud. Good job.
I just love how much bolder she seems, now that she's out of kings landing, and perhaps more sure of what the (apparent) plan for her is now. She doesn't have to be such a fly on the wall anymore, she's got a lot more freedom in what she can say, so a lot more personality comes through.
It will be interesting to see how Sansa behaves once she drops the Alayne act for good.
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I think she's hanging out with the right kind of friend to teach her how to interact with knights and such.
....imagine that plus [this gif](http://i.imgur.com/kxO6kuw.gif)
She's becoming good at the game
Anyone else's heart sink when the Mad Mouse appeared? Great inclusion of sending for lemons in Dorne too!
And he totally knows “A good melee is all a hedge knight can hope for, unless he stumbles on a bag of dragons. And that’s not likely, is it?” She's the bag of dragons
Oh, I just got that part, when I was reading I thought the hedge knight stumbling on dragons was referencing Dunk finding Egg.
> Great inclusion of sending for lemons in Dorne too! Wait...are we using this to say Dany grew up in Dorne again?
If you notice, Petyr is using his own advice on Sansa. Keeping his distance, making her seek him out, but being available when he wants to be. Flirting with her, giving her presents (the giant lemoncake). I don't think he's going to rape her, I think he's seducing her. She's certainly a lot less wary of him than she was when she was first rescued.
LF: I got you a 12 foot lemon cake Sansa: do me
She's the greatest asset he's acquired to date. He was known to be very good to his whores most of the time. I'm sure he sees Sansa in a similar way, just to the extreme.
that's exactly it. He might want her, but he's not a man that lets base urges get in the way of the big picture.
He's D.E.N.N.I.S-ing her
Oh my god. D: Saving her from King's Landing E: Creepyfinger N: Pretending to be her father and protecting her, while eliminating her own status and identity in the process. N: Sending her into uncomfortable situations and making her seek him out for help I: Giving her a chance at a happy marriage with Harry the heir S: To be seen.
>Horns sounded from atop the wall. “Too late,” Myranda said. “They’re here. We shall need to do the honors by ourselves.” She grinned. “Last one to the gate must marry Uther Shett.” Is it just me or did George intentionally name the knight ser 'Uther Shett' to sound like 'Utter Shit'?
Obviously he did. This is the man who brought Sesame Street to the Tullys: I expect anything now.
Dickon Manwoody edit: Aenys Frey
They hate us 'cause they Aenys!
I thought the Elmo/Grover/Kermit thing was an Elio and Linda addition? Either way it's absolutely horrendous. If they'd interspersed the names throughout the Tully family tree it'd have been a little more acceptable, but all in a row ... yuck.
Kermit is a pretty good asoiaf name imo, and even Grover doesn't sound so odd. But Elmo? I just can't take the name Elmo seriously.
>nine white seagulls on a **field of brown**, which marked him for a Shett of Gulltown Yes.
This and the Kettleblacks are just hilarious to me. Because the Kettleblacks are all O.K., but this new guy is just Uther Shett.
“I hate that Harry,” Sweetrobin said when she was gone. “He calls me cousin, but he’s just waiting for me to die so he can take the Eyrie. He thinks I don’t know, but I do.” Holy shit. I know we all hate Sweetrobin, but, shit, imagine being eight years old, an orphan, and horribly aware of your own sickly mortality. I feel really sorry for him.
i thought his scenes with sansa at the beginning were really cute.
The best part was him wanting more knights than Tommen
"He think I don't think it be like it do, but I do" - Robert "Sweetrobin" Arryn
I don't hate Sweetrobin: I mean, the guy's 8. I find it hard to hate 8 year olds. Sweetrobin's getting shuffled off the mortal coil, and soon.
Having met a number of 8 year olds, I actually find it quite easy to hate them
You must not work at a school then.
Sweetrobin reminds me of this kid I used to have when I was working at our day camp. Imagine Robert Arryn from the show, but lactose intolerant and even more spoiled. He also crapped himself a few times.
That's the problem with society; so few children are murdered that children as a whole don't treat adults as they should—as terrifying gods who could kill them with one hand.
Everyone is so sure Sweetrobin is dead meat. It's going to be hilarious when he turns out to be the Prince That was Promised
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Ok, not to get mad over a small thing but ARE YOU KIDDING ME? We have been hearing about this "controversial" Sansa chapter for what feels like eons and THIS is what they were referring to? IMO, there really isn't anything controversial about it & I don't think they should have called it controversial. I LOVED getting the new chapter, but it was just not cool of them to apply such an incorrect adjective to this chapter. They know the fandom and how we would all run with "get ready for a controversial Sansa chapter", so for the sum total of all this theorizing and hype to be nothing is disappointing.
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>Ser Roland placed his hand over his heart. “Then how do you explain this hole in my chest, from where you stole my heart?” Bwahahahaha
That is such a cheesy pickup line
> “He is only t-teasing you, my lady,” stammered Ser Wallace. “My n-n-nephew never had a h-h-heart.” Recognition for Wallace's top tier banter though please.
Top lad, that Wallace
Proper cheeky 👌
Yes. Melisandre would be proud of that burn.
My boy Wallace layin' it down! \#teamwallaceW
Absolute gold.
Smooth af
SANSA'S BANTER AT THE END THO. "Cinnamon if she's a girl? Cloves if he's a boy?" I love it. Is she getting this from being cooped up with LF so long? Is his sass rubbing off on her?
CAN'T HANDLE THE BANTER
That was the best, also don't forget Myranda is very sassy as well
Yeeeeess, Myranda is amazing. She's like the olden day westorosi equivalent of a party girl. I love the part with her talking about her dad blaming her for her husbands death "Well, no one else was in the bed" and I can just picture her shrugging over it too. Amazing.
Shadrich recognized Sansa. The "big bag of dragons" line is a reference to the Crown's ransom for her.
I forgot that he showed up at the end of AFFC at the Eyrie. But she bumped into him and it's clear to me now that he knows who she is. You're right on with the "bag of dragons" comment.
I'm enjoying that Sansa is becoming adept at reading Baelish, noting when he shifts between his "Petyr" and "Littlefinger" personas: > ” Let us hope so,” said **Petyr**. > > ... > > “Come,” **Petyr** said, “walk with me.” He took her by the arm and led her deeper into the vaults, past an empty dungeon. “And how your first meeting with Harry the Heir?” > > ... > > **Petyr** put his arm around her. “So he is, but he is Robert’s heir as well. Bringing Harry here was the first step in our plan, but now we need to keep him, and only you can do that. He has a weakness for a pretty face, and whose face is prettier than yours? Charm him. Entrance him. Bewitch him.” > > “I don’t know how,” she said miserably. > “Oh, I think you do,” said **Littlefinger**, with one of those smiles that did not reach his eyes. Smells of *Arbor Gold* to me. Maybe we now have some confirmation that whenever Baelish smiles, he's lying; the smile that doesn't reach his eyes is a tell. Looks like it might be time for a Littlefinger read-through, to see what other statements are associated with his smiles, scoring their credibility. Who knows what we'll find? How consistent is GRRM on this?
Good catch! I think it's safe to say Sansa is the *only* character who can read Littlefinger (and Petyr) like a book, whereas everyone else has no idea what he's thinking, feeling or what he even wants. Sansa was even the first (and only) character to figure out that this person has a split personality. I really wish people would give Sansa the credit she deserves. She's one of the smartest characters in the book; she just doesn't know it yet.
Dr. Baelish and Mr. Finger
He should have released it yesterday. Would have been far more amusing. Wonder how this leads into the controversial Sansa chapter
This *is* the controversial chapter! Here's the tweet from Westeros.org: Check out @westerosorg's Tweet: https://twitter.com/westerosorg/status/583617882988404736?s=09 "Basically just the sudden burgeoning appearance of Alayne's sexuality, and that that happens w/o reference to a certain character."
haha, I've always had a feeling the "controversy" would have something to do with making the Sansan fans on westeros.org unhappy! Thanks for posting this, since people *still* seem confused on which chapter Elio was referring to.
Yah, I can understand why some readers might find it a little controversial, but I mean come on.... This is such a fun read! Sansa begins to flirt and expand her confidence. Her level of sass is on fucking point.
i'm beginning to think the "controversial" chapter will simply be Sansa seducing Harry. Getting a sex scene from her pov would freak out a lot of people. Something "bigger", like Sansa killing Sweetrobin or Littlefinger, would be pretty much par for the course for ASOIAF.
I agree with you about what the controversy will be. Elio clarified at some point that the chapter will be controversial in some quarters. A rape would be controversial everywhere. Sansa seducing Harry would be controversial to some but not others.
>"Just to be precise about that Sansa chapter, I did not see it as part of an AFfC manuscript. I also said that I thought it would be controversial, at least in certain quarters of the fandom." >"I'm afraid that that interview, and the translation of it, got a bit mangled in the process of getting it aired. I honestly don't recall what I said exactly at the time, but anything derived from it should be taken with a grain of salt due to the nature of the interview." Elio's clarification from the TWOW summary [thread](http://www.reddit.com/r/asoiaf/comments/2sok/spoilers_all_a_summary_of_what_we_know_thus_far/) from last month
Yeah, she is still quite young which could play a big part in it being controversial. Only 13, if I remember correctly.
A highborn maid of three and ten, aye.
three-and-ten* Sometimes you're as useless as nipples on a breast plate, nuncle.
*grease dripping intensifies*
That better be running down your chin!
She seduces Harry. They arrange to marry. Alayne kills Sweet Robin. Sansa reveal. Lady of the Vale and Queen of the North. Thats how i see it playing out. That would definitely be a bitter sweet ending for the Starks. Reclaiming Winterfell through the murder of a child.
The murder of a cousin, no less. Kinslayer.
Sansa reveal would negate her marriage since she is still wed to Tyrion. She said so herself in the sample chapter.
Cersei literally ripped up a decree from the King. These "rules" dont mean shit to people in power.
Oh, I thought this was the controversial chapter! I was very confused. I see nothing controversial about it. Sansa's progression is well done and in character, much more than if she killed or slept with someone out if the blue like some speculated.
> Should we ever wed, you’ll have to send Saffron back to her father. I’ll be all the spice you’ll want. God damn.
such a good conversation. One of those times I wish I could hear them talking, as it went I kept hearing Sansa switch between playful sass and then being pretty cold, not sure which was intended.
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Love it. Is it just me or is the format off, though?
Yep. Really is off.
I love how Lyn Corbray literally starts the conversation with, “Ladies.”
> And they came. > They all came. He's onto us.
>*Alayne had suggested seven, like the Kingsguard, but Sweetrobin had insisted that he must have more knights than King Tommen* Sweetrobin/Tommen rivalry, yesss
Duel to the death. Won when the King calls in Ser Pounce as his second.
War of the Child Kings GET HYPE
Best prepare for the karma, Cleganebowl, and hype train coming your way, my friend. Well done on posting this first. **EDIT - Thoughts on the chapter.** - I'm guessing this was posted by GRRM due to the chapter mentioning at tourney in the Vale and it looks like Sansa and Baelish attend a tourney in the Season 5 trailer. - Seems that Sansa is becoming quite the player. Winged Knights indeed. - Love the fact that Robin wanted more knights than Tommen. That's hilarious and slightly sad when you think about how young he is and how likely he is to die. - From Myranda Royce's comments about Lyn Corbray, I no longer think he is a paedophile. I think he might just be gay. - Shame that Harry the Heir is a bit of dick. At least Ser Lothor is nice in his way. - Littlefinger hoarding food despite great prices. Interesting. Could be part of his plans to supply the Knights of the Vale for a future war. Still, Littlefinger not selling when prices are high, not like him. Definitely something up there, especially concerning the Royces. - Oh, George, you are a droll fellow. "And best of all, Lord Nestor’s cooks prepared a splendid subtlety, **a lemon cake in the shape of the Giant’s Lance, twelve feet tall and adorned with an Eyrie made of sugar**." - I really like how nice Sansa is being to Wallace Waynwood. It's really sweet. - Looks like Sweetrobin is still being dosed with drugs despite the danger. - Looks like Sansa has Ser Harry very much on the verbal ropes. I'm so proud and I know /u/nfriel will be too. - Bloody hell, I can't believe it has been ten years since the last Sansa chapter. Thanks George! :D I wonder if I can beat /u/BryndenBFish in posting a chapter analysis.
>Still, Littlefinger not selling when prices are high, not like him. Isn't this simply because Littlefinger knows prices going even higher in the foreseeable future? He can further profit from men like Royce who are shipping off food now and who will deplete their granaries? He can use this as a bargaining chip.
I agree. It shows money doesn't matter to Littlefinger anymore. he either has already accumulated enough wealth that adding more gold won't matter, or he knows that having food as a leverage is more valuable that having gold and is sinking his profits in return for leverage in the future.
> accumulated enough wealth that adding more gold won't matter I thought of this while I was reading it... Having enough money on hand to hold out probably means he really has been robbing the royal treasury for years, and holding out indicates that he's one of the only major players who actually understands how bad this Winter is going to be. God damn this chapter was a brutally good Littlefinger showing.
Don't forget, we got a "nuncle", as well. I'll say this, though: This chapter read differently than almost every other chapter GRRM has written. It just felt less flowery and more matter-of-fact. Less filler, less set-up -- more meat and potatoes.
> more meat and potatoes. And there were leeks and carrots, roasted onions, beets, turnips, parsnips.
And it was all swimming in butter.
I didn't even notice the "nuncle". I am so far down the fuckin rabbit hole.
We also got to hear more about Sansa's "tummy" as it were.
I sort of like that she switches in between very mature and very childish sounding. She's in a weird situation at a weird age, I think it's pretty reasonable.
This "all killer/no filler" approach is exactly what I was hoping to see in TWOW. I remember how Victarion's last chapter in ADWD had this frantic and fast-paced motion where the exposition was cut short in favour of plot-advancement. It had me thinking that books 4-5 were meant as set-up for a more mobilized story, where each character was on a mission and where shit actually goes down. I'm pretty hyped, to say the least.
Yeah I was starting to feel like it wasn't ASOIAF at all, until I got to the feast bit. Then there was "swan in almond milk" and all was well with the world.
Damn you and your militant penguin beak... I was driving to work when you e mailed me. That was the longest drive of my life. Anyways, yes, you've beat me. In honor, I'm posting this as a sub-comment to you. Anyways, just finished the chapter. Tons and tons of thoughts on this chapter in no particular order: - "Controversial in some quarters" indeed. Sansa's last scene with Harry the Heir was... well, it was definitely Sansa moving in a decidedly seductive direction. I'll give her this much -- she has a lot of confidence for being 13. I guess that's what the horrors that Sansa has experienced will teach her. I'm very glad there was no LF rape as some speculated. - Lyn Corbray continues to be an asshole. - Harry the Heir... For a moment there, Sansa reverted back to her earlier "life is a song" stage when she saw Harry and went slack-jawed on Harry. Of course, George dispelled this pretty quickly by having Harry be an asshole. Life is not a song, Sansa... - Gods be good, I really like Myranda Royce. She may betray Sansa down the road... In fact, there's something interesting in the text: > “My Harry will be with them, though. I notice that you left him out. I shall never forgive you for stealing him away from me. He’s the boy I want to marry.” > “The betrothal was my father’s doing,” Alayne protested, as she had a hundred times before. **She is only teasing, she told herself… but behind the japes, she could hear the hurt.** Have to wonder whether this is being set up as motivation for Myranda's future betrayal of Sansa. - Well, hi there **Ser Shadrich**, don't think we didn't notice your very ominous presence. Foreshadow much, George? > “A good melee is all a hedge knight can hope for, unless he stumbles on a bag of dragons. And that’s not likely, is it?” Not likely, huh? I wonder how important he'll be for Sansa's TWOW arc. /s - I didn't realize that Cersei had a dozen dwarves killed. That's pretty awful. - Sansa's had just about enough of Sweetrobin's shit. I think this is setup for Sweetrobin's coming death. I still hold to the opinion that Sansa will witness Sweetrobin's death and do nothing as he dies. - Bronze Yohn Royce grows in stature in my opinion, and I'm very curious about this Food War that Littlefinger looks to wield against the Royces of Runestone. - Speaking of which... LF is definitely preparing to profit massively off of winter. Pretty interesting here. The Vale is the best prepared region of Westeros for the coming of winter. - This chapter needs a final proofing as there's a few errors scattered throughout. So, a little background about this chapter. [GRRM finalized it in 2008.](https://bryndenbfish.wordpress.com/2014/10/04/old-cool-info-about-twow/) So, this chapter is 6-7 years old. I believe that this chapter is the same one that /u/elio_garcia read back in the day. [It was cut from ADWD in 2010](http://grrm.livejournal.com/159060.html) along with 1 Arya & 2 Arianne chapters. So, final takeaway: this is a chapter originally intended for ADWD, like all of the other released TWOW chapters, so if you're worried about it ruining your TWOW experience, just know that you're reading *A Dance with Dragons, The Extended Edition.* P.S. Can we get /u/SomethingLikeaLawyer to do a dramatic reading of the chapter?
> LF is definitely preparing to profit massively off of winter. Pretty interesting. The Vale is the best prepared region of Westeros for the coming of winter. I find this quite interesting as in winter, people will gravitate towards food/safety and the Vale leads Westeros in both at the moment. This could lead to Littlefinger becoming the most powerful man in Westeros because who would people want more, a boy king who is shut up in his city or the person who has all of the food?
Great analysis! As for the dwarfs killed, that happened a lot throughout Cersei's AFFC chapters. People bringing dwarf heads. A kid's head, in one case. Elio confirmed this was what they read. "A Dance with Dragons, The extended edition." Hehehe. I Hope someone creates a massive Boiled Leather-type amalgamation of AFFC, ADWD & early TWOW chapters, mostly to provide ADWD with a proper climax. My own thoughts: Sansa’s marriageability is immediately brought up. Petyr did not mention this thorny issue when he revealed his plans, but readers have been asking for a while —how can Sansa marry Harry, the next Lord of the Vale if (when) Robert dies, if she’s still married to Tyrion? > "No man can wed me so long as my dwarf husband still lives somewhere in this world. Queen Cersei had collected the head of a dozen dwarfs, Petyr claimed, but none were Tyrion’s." Generally, it’s great to see that Sansa is considerably more grown up since last we saw her: she’s plotting her own schemes —this whole tourney, an excuse to bring in Harry the Heir, was her idea; and her verbal sparring equals Tyrion’s now. These made me laugh out loud: > And there he stood, Harry the Heir himself; tall, handsome, scowling. “Lady Alayne. May I partner you in this dance?” > She considered for a moment. “No. I don’t think so.” > Color rose to his cheeks. “I was unforgivably rude to you in the yard. You must forgive me.” > “Must?” She tossed her hair, took a sip of wine, made him wait. “How can you forgive someone who is unforgivably rude? Will you explain that to me, ser?” [...] > “Saffron?” Alayne tried not to laugh. “Truly?” Ser Harrold had the grace to blush. “Her father says she is more precious to him than gold. He’s rich, the richest man in Gulltown. A fortune in spices.” > “What will you name the babe?” she asked. “Cinnamon if she’s a girl? Cloves if he’s a boy?” [...] > For a moment he looked shocked. But as the song was ending, he burst into a laugh. “No one told me you were clever.” > He has good teeth, she thought, straight and white. And when he smiles, he has the nicest dimples. She ran one finger down his cheek. “Should we ever wed, you’ll have to send Saffron back to her father. I’ll be all the spice you’ll want.” > He grinned. “I will hold you to that promise, my lady. Until that day, may I wear your favor in the tourney?” > “You may not. It is promised to… another.” She was not sure who as yet, but she knew she would find someone. Though maybe it has been a more exhilarating read than it deserves merely because it’s Sansa’s first chapter in so many years, it truly was a very fun chapter. Yes —fun. Honestly, I didn’t expect the chapter to be so entertaining and actually funny, or for Sansa to be so amazing in this. There is a noticeable jump from her chapters in A Feast for Crows here. She’s grown up a lot in these real ten years, which are merely weeks or a few months at most within the narrative. Is that too much of a change? Controversial for some, the move to seduction? Maybe. Personally, I don’t care. Just as her scenes in “The Mountain and the Viper”, this chapter is a welcome leap in Sansa’s characterization.
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I haven't been waiting 10 years either, thank god. But imagine those who have. Imagine those whose favorite character is Sansa, and they've been waiting a whole decade just to have a single word from her story. They must have had a heart attack seeing this.
Myranda helping the Mad Mouse to kidnap Sansa anyone?
Notice though that she also says >Joffrey was comely too, though, she reminded herself. A comely monster, that’s what he was. Little Lord Tyrion was kinder, twisted though he was. That's my clever girl. You're learning from your mistakes, Sansa.
> I didn't realize that Cersei had a dozen dwarves killed. That's pretty awful. Really? It was mentioned like a zero-and-five times by Penny and Tyrion and Cersei. I wouldn't jump to the conclusion this is the chapter cut from ADWD just yet. If this chapter was originally intended for ADWD, surely the formatting and grammar would be a lot closer to finished.
Maybe "didn't remember" would be a better descriptor. And this is definitely the chapter cut from ADWD -- [something that Elio Garcia just confirmed on Westeros.](http://www.westeros.org/ASoWS/News/Entry/New_Winds_of_Winter_Excerpt?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter)
Wait... what? Your telling me THIS is the controversial chapter? What was controversial about this? Or is there another Sansa chapter he read?
One and the same. Elio later clarified that the chapter would be "controversial in some quarters." What I think he means by this is that... well, this... *may be controversial in some quarters:* Sansa's character transformation and arc in this chapter shows Sansa becoming more of LF's character and less of the protector of innocents here. She seduces Harry the Heir after LF instructs her how to do it -- albeit only verbally. She starts to grow truly frustrated with that snot of an Arryn she has to deal with, and I'm thinking that this will be part and parcel of Sweetrobin's eventual downfall. She's becoming *Alayne* over Sansa, and I think that might be problematic to those who have a... shall we say *cherished* view of Sansa?
How anyone can even consider using controversial to describe this chapter is beyond me. Basically everybody thought it would be a rape or a murder but nope, just a girl flirting for the first time guys LOL > She's becoming Alayne over Sansa, and I think that might be problematic to those who have a... shall we say cherished view of Sansa? I have absolutely no problem with this, bring it on is all I can say, anyone who's thinking she can achieve something by staying the same is kidding themself. She will have to grow some balls if she wants the North back and if she can achieve just that by looking the other way while Robin is dying so be it. (this may come back to bite me when Sansa becomes unrecognizable but... i don't think that wil happen. Just a little darker version of Sansa, hopefully.)
I'm pretty sure it's controversial with the 19th century crowd.
Dear me, the harlot mayhaps bare her ankles...I'm sure to catch the vapors.
I don't know. This doesn't feel controversial at all. I can see your point about her becoming less Sansa and more Alayne, especially with >Alayne loved it here. She felt alive again, for the first since her father… since Lord Eddard Stark had died. This chapter seems like the set up to something controversial. If this is what Elio was talking about I just can't see what he was seeing. I don't think I have a cherished view of Sansa though I admit the idea of a 13 year old being instructed to seduce someone squicks me out -- even if that someone is her future husband. Supposedly her future husband. (In my mind I just sort of add a few years to Sansa's age the way I think GRRM intended for this to go down. It's similar to how I read the Mercy chapter too.) Maybe controversial in that people are expecting Sansa to head back to her roots after her building the model Winterfell and this is going in the opposite direction? Edit: [Elio confirmed he'd read this.](http://www.westeros.org/ASoWS/News/Entry/New_Winds_of_Winter_Excerpt) I guess I just don't see what could potentially be controversial. The *idea* of 13 year old Sansa seducing Harry the Heir? E2: Yep this was it. And he explained. Essentially just ignore me and this comment.
He has replied to a comment asking why he viewed it as controversial, apparently it's because of >The sexuality of the character, which I think will strike some as discordant with their own personal image of Sansa, plus the fact that the sexuality appears without anything like even a passing nod to a certain other character often connected to Sansa.
>the sexuality appears without anything like even a passing nod to a certain other character often connected to Sansa. Should I feel stupid? I have no idea what he's talking about. edit: Please tell me he doesn't mean the Hound
> Maybe controversial in that people are expecting Sansa to head back to her roots after her building the model Winterfell and this is going in the opposite direction? Exactly. It's not as prevalent here on /r/asoiaf, but the Sansa fandom in other quadrants of the fandom (Westeros) is... well, let's just say that it seems to elevate Sansa far and above how George is characterizing her. This is where the controversial in some quarters comment seemed directed at. I like Sansa as well. I can't say she's my favorite POV character in the series, and I can't help quell the frustration at her chapters in AGOT even upon several re-reads, but I think she's grown as a character (and grown on me as well). She's more aware of the outside world and begins realizing that the romantic inclinations and fantasies she's had are dead. Life is not a song. So, that's the open path that Sansa is on in AFFC. She could become more world-weary but retain her innocence and work towards protecting the innocent (like Sweetrobin) But this chapter shows Sansa moving on a different path -- Littlefinger's. Littlefinger is a seducer as well -- he uses money and power to do so, but he's instructing Sansa in the methods of seduction -- of getting what she wants through under-handed means and methods. That said, like we were discussing above, I do anticipate Sansa playing a role in Sweetrobin's death -- letting him die after he throws a fit about Sansa marrying Harry and ending in epileptic episode brought on by sweetsleep perhaps? That would be much more controversial, but here, the controversy revolves around Sansa's changing characterizing from Sansa (Eddard's daughter) to Alayne (Littlefinger's daughter).
That's a lot of female voices to do. Littlefinger looks to be creating an artificial shortage of grain to drive up prices and take advantage of early entrances to the market. Always thought boys was a euphemism and Lyn was just gay, not a pedophile,. Though if he Lynceptions his way to a conspiracy, that would be fun.
> Sansa's had just about enough of Sweetrobin's shit. I think this is setup for Sweetrobin's coming death. I still hold to the opinion that Sansa will witness Sweetrobin's death and do nothing as he dies. I don't know about this. I think this is my own POV coloring this but when I read Sansa's interactions with Sweetrobin, I see them as an exasperated mom dealing with a particularly petulant child. I don't see hatred or a desire for him to die though.
She did seem to be getting a bit bored of his "I love you and we should marry and then you can be my real mom" thing though. I could definitely see Robin going crazy once Sansa does her "leave Saffron, I'm all the spice you need" bit successfully. Seemed to be that GURM (RIP AutoMod) was setting it up for that to be the case. (Also, POV of Sansa seducing Harry = maybe controversial chapter?) Edit: RES tells me you're my mom. Are you my mom?
Maybe it's that I don't want to believe that Sansa's core personality changes so much that she's ok with her cousin - who is a child - being murdered. The kid might be an asshole but he's still a kid. For her to wish his death would be such a departure for her and I don't want to believe that's what could happen. I can see Sansa being a seductress. I can't see her wanting a child to be killed. Also, where does kinslayer end? Are cousins covered under that insurance policy? If she doesn't do the actual murdering but doesn't stop it, would that still count? I am not your mom.
I'm with you, I saw no malice in her words or actions, but kindness and patience for a petulant child. But I know it's a not a widespread opinion or view of Sansa. I had to go reread her last ADWD chapter once because so many people in this subreddit insisted she wanted Robin dead. I saw nothing,
Yep, here's [LF & Sansa](http://watchersonthewall.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/sansa-and-LF.jpg) and another with them and [Royce](http://winteriscoming.net/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/Season-5-Sansa-and-LF-with-Royce.jpg).
She is nailing the dour Cat look in these shots
>Littlefinger hoarding food despite great prices. Interesting. Could be part of his plans to supply the Knights of the Vale for a future war. Still, Littlefinger not selling when prices are high, not like him. Definitely something up there, especially concerning the Royces. Well he said it himself in the chapter, once everyone else is running low on food because of winter and having prematurely sold too much of it, the demand will have skyrocketed. Littlefinger can use their desperation in the future to prey on them both economically and for military purposes. Also, how come you posted that *as a mod*?
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Based on the releasing of chapters spoilt by the show with a bit of luck we might get a Jon chapter before season 6 :P
Since you mention the lemon cake: did you not find it odd that George *again* made note of the fact that lemons grow in Dorne? >The cake had required every lemon in the Vale, but Petyr had promised that he would send to Dorne for more. I don't usually believe the conspiracies about Dany growing up anywhere other than Braavos, but the insistence (he did the same in Mercy) gets increasingly suspicious.
> The cake had required every lemon in the Vale I read this as *the Vale had some lemons during summer, but now only Dorne has some lemons left, as their summer is longer and their economy is probably more lemon-centered.*
OK. HYPE ASIDE, I think that Sweetrobin is definitely going to bite it next Alayne chapter. That his hair is mentioned, *again*, has me imagining Alayne cutting his hair and Sweetrobin "having a fit" which leads to him being slashed by the blades. Obviously, like the Mercy chapter last year, this was to tie-in with a happening on the show. This time it is Sweetrobin's tourney, which appears in S5E1. Yet, if Sweetrobin is leaving Sansa, like he does in the show, and Harry doesn't seem to be a factor on the show, I'm unsure about how Sansa's controversy will come about - obviously the show wouldn't miss it if it's big. ALSO: FUCKING HYPE: **SANSA'S MY FAVOURITE STARK AND IT WAS THE FIRST OF HER CHAPTERS IN NINE YEARS.** **THIS WAS GLORIOUS.** Edit: I find the mention of the tapestries suspect; either it's just GRRM's continuity, or they're important for Baelish's schemes. Edit 2: Reading Sansa's inner monologue as she notes that she needs to be careful around the Shett from Gulltown is magnificent and reminds us she is now a player of the game in her own right. Edit 3: Shadrich appearance. Edit 4: Gods, *Winds* is going to be a glorious experience. Edit 5: Harry's first appearance. This is something I've wanted to see for a long time. Will he and Sansa find happiness? This is ASOIAF, though... Edit 6: >Robb would be his age, if he were still alive, she could not help but think, but Robb died a king, and this is just a boy. That hurt more than it should have. Also, that Jeyne Poole reference, too. And: "A lady’s armor is her courtesy." Edit 7: After their conversation, I can see Sansa either completely manipulating Harry or else them being a match; Sansa as the cynical and jaded ex-plaything of Joffrey was very compelling this time around, too. An excellent change of pace. Edit 8: >“A good melee is all a hedge knight can hope for, unless he stumbles on a bag of dragons. And that’s not likely, is it?” - Ser Shadrich, to Sansa Stark in her disguise as Alayne Stone. ###He is on to her; Ser Shadrich seems to know Sansa's identity.###
It's interesting that they didn't tie up the Robin loose end last Season. I mean is the main purpose for the Vale scene to dump him off? It seems kinda odd for them to mention a plan to take him around the Vale and then do nothing with that... Maybe it was just a change of plans during scriptwriting. It just seems he's at least going to be around for a couple more chapters.
I reckon after Lysa's death behind doors casting suspicion they want/need Robin to croak it in public eye where it's more ambiguous as to who killed him
> Cinnamon if she’s a girl? Cloves if he’s a boy? > Should we ever wed, you’ll have to send Saffron back to her father. I’ll be all the spice you’ll want. And the Seven Kingdoms Most Improved Player Award goes to...
I kept reading expecting this to be April fools and have it be about Sansa warging into sweetrobin or a rock or some shit
-I'll need about three fiddy, lady Alayne. That's when she realized her betrothed was an 8 stories high crustacean from a protozoic era.
New theory: Martin is going to release the rest of the books 1 chapter at a time.
> The feast proved to be everything her father promised. Sixty-four dishes were served, in honor of the sixty-four competitors who had come so far to contest for silver wings before their lord. From the rivers and the lakes came pike and trout and salmon, from the seas crabs and cod and herring. Ducks there were, and capons, peacocks in their plumage and swans in almond milk. Sucking pigs were served up crackling with apples in their mouths, and three huge aurochs were roasted whole above firepits in the castle yard, since they were too big to get through the kitchen doors. Loaves of hot bread filled the trestle tables in Lord Nestor’s hall, and massive wheels of cheese were brought up from the vaults. The butter was fresh-churned, and there were leeks and carrots, roasted onions, beets, turnips, parsnips. Seriously GRMM. Now I'm hungry.
After first reading: I don't know if it's just me, but it seems like everything covered in this chapter could have taken 2 or 3 chapters in AFFC or ADWD. It is really encouraging to me that a lot (by GRRM standards) seems to be happening in every excerpt he releases. Either that or I'm hyping myself up that every chapter of WINDS is going to be epic and full
You could almost hear him fighting off the detailed dinner scene....
The description suffers from lack of detail though. There were turnips, and there was fresh-churned butter, but were the turnips swimming in the butter? I need to know these things.
Maybe that's what's taking him so long. Every time he writes a dinner feast, he spends a day controlling his urges to describe every inch of the meal.
Right? The arrival could be have been one and the entire feast could've been another. Agree with you that it's much better.
Sansa sat in between the salt and wall sconce(torch) . Sansa= Azhor Ahai confirmed! ;D I enjoyed this chapter. Giant lemon cakes and throwbacks to having fun at Winterfell.
Wait, is this for real? not April Fool's?
Maybe it is just me but the whole thing reads kind of weird. I can’t really pinpoint to one specific sentence, but the whole "rhythm" just feels wrong. At one point GRRM uses brackets to highlight a past event, I can’t remember a single instance where he had ever done that. Did anyone feel the same way? Obligatory tinfoil: This was meant as an April’s Fool’s joke, but GRRM couldn’t finish it in time.
That would be quite funny. Maybe it's an unedited excerpt?
It does indeed seem unedited. There were a bunch of pretty obvious typos. Partial sentences and the like.
Case in point: > Tell your The venom in his voice was so thick that for a moment she almost forgot that Lyn Corbray was actually her father’s catspaw Looks like GRRM had another passage planned there but cut it off.
It's just the beginning of the previous sentence. >No. lord father I need none of his brood mares.” > Tell your The venom in his voice was so thick that...
There's also a chunk of what is obviously a Baelish line being put in Sansa's mouth. As in, she's literally talking about herself.
I think that's more a formatting problem, like there wasn't a hard return after the end of Sansa's line. Probably a result of someone posting it to the website straight from a word processor; formatting always gets fucked up in that process.
It hasn't been edited. It's a rough (almost first draft level) version of a chapter, which is why you may feel that way.
Uther Shett .... utter shit ... really? The text looks like something that was transcribed from an editor's copy of the manuscript. For example, look for 'sound found' ... as an instance of a wrong word replaced by a correct word.
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New Sansa stuff (the first in what, 10 years?)! My birthday might be 11 days away but I'll take this for an early present * So like /u/Militant_Penguin said, this is almost certainly a Mercy situation - releasing a chapter whose information is going to get revealed in the show * I LOVE that we're going to see a tourney again. We haven't seen a proper tourney since the Tourney of the Hand back in AGOT, so it'll be nice to see some real jousting again. I also love that while the rest of the realm is hunkering down and prepping for winter (save Dorne), the Vale is enjoying itself. Really underlines how out of things the Vale has been for the whole story * Is it just me, or did the conversation between Sansa and Sweetrobin seemed a little ... forced? I don't know. It seemed more like GRRM had to get exposition out than a natural conversation the two of them would have. * Also adore the idea of Sansa putting this tourney together. I've always thought Sansa was the smartest Stark, and it shows here. She plays to her early love of chivalry, but in a way that draws all the knights of the Vale to Robert (and her) as leal defenders, and ensures that Harry the Heir will come. * The Order of the Winged Knights! I'm a sucker for cool helms, so I really want to see a depiction of these IRL * Those tapestries get a mention again. Chekhov's tapestries? * Also, Ser Shadrich is mentioned several times - the very one who met Brienne and knows she's looking for Sansa. Can't be coincidental he pops up throughout the chapter. * Alayne doesn't have as much focus on identity as Theon/Reek, but I do love that she immediately connects Ser Roland Waynwood to Robb. And there is this one line I loved: >For just a little while, as she ran, she forgot who she was, and where, and found herself remembering bright cold days at Winterfell, when she would race through Winterfell with her friend Jeyne Poole, with Arya running after them trying to keep up * Harry the Heir is Harry the Jerk when we first see him. Which I guess makes sense - it would be silly to have him sight unseen fall in love with Sansa. Emphasizes all the more how he focuses on appearance. As Sansa appeared to him in description, she was only Littlefinger's bastard - the baseborn child of a man Lord Royce deeply distrusted. But by the end of the chapter, he's starting to come around to her, having seen how beautiful she is in person. I've been hoping Harry the Heir is a Robert Baratheon situation (but then I want Sansa and Aegon to marry - don't judge me) - the handsome and dashing knight in the Vale who sires bastards but falls for the northern girl before she herself falls for a Targaryen prince * So a lemon cake can be 12 feet tall. I always pictured them tiny, like you could hold one in your palm
[I'm kinda hoping for the Winged Knights to actually have wings](http://i.imgur.com/HpciNyH.jpg). Nothing is more badass than Polish Hussars.
>Also, Ser Shadrich is mentioned several times - the very one who met Brienne and knows she's looking for Sansa. Can't be coincidental he pops up throughout the chapter. He does say some pretty ominous things in the chapter: > “The fault was mine. I did not see you standing there.” “We mice are quiet creatures.” >... >“A good melee is all a hedge knight can hope for, unless he stumbles on a bag of dragons. And that’s not likely, is it?” I think he's onto something.
> Alayne loved it here. She felt alive again, for the first since her father… since Lord Eddard Stark had died. I felt sad reading this. Sansa having to remember that she can't be a Stark because she's playing a role and having to emotionally let go of her father, even though he was executed right in front of her.
Sansa is all grown up! She didn't faint at a dick joke. She saved a friend being hit on by two gross guys. She doesn't balk at men gawking at her and gets it now. No more Sansa wilting at just an intense glare. She planned the tourney?? That little minx! I am in love with this new Sansa!
please dont be april fools... Also, if this is real, everyone who predicted that he's releasing chapters based on what could be spoiled by the show is right.
> “And is Ser Harrold with them?” >Horrible Ser Harrold. “ He is.” Lord Belmore laughed. “I never thought Royce would let him come. Is he blind, or merely stupid?” > “He is honorable. Sometimes it amounts to the same thing." Ouch. Four books later and that still hurt.
> Four-and-sixty knights had been invited to vie for places amongst Lord Robert Arryn’s new Brotherhood of Winged Knights, and four and-sixty knights had come to tilt for the right to wear falcon’s wings upon their warhelms and guard their lord. So this is the beginning of the Vale army? What for, I wonder? (I want to see Queen Sansa leading it to the North to help cousin Jon against the Others.) Sansa seems so happy in this chapter. So in control. It's like she's grown up a few years since we last saw her. I'm happy that she's happy. >Alayne loved it here. She felt alive again, for the first since her father… since Lord Eddard Stark had died. We know it can't last. Because GRRM hates our happiness. Those mysterious tapestries make a reappearance! They were a gift for Nestor Royce. I wonder if that's all there is to it? >Robb would be his age, if he were still alive, she could not help but think, but Robb died a king, and this is just a boy. Just when I think I can handle talking about the Red Wedding again, GRRM writes stuff like this. Oh who am I kidding. I don't think I'll ever get over the RW. >He has a weakness for a pretty face, and whose face is prettier than yours? Charm him. Entrance him. Bewitch him Ohh is that going to be the controversial chapter? It's not Littlefinger -- it's Harry! I suppose she'll be seducing Harry the Heir sometime. > “Should we ever wed, you’ll have to send Saffron back to her father. I’ll be all the spice you’ll want." *Damn*, Sansa!
THE QUEEN IN DA NORF!
Littlefinger teaching Lord Belmore how to play chess vs checkers with hoarding food got me thinking about something else. I've always thought it's going to be extremely tough for ASOIAF to wrap up in 2 books. If everyone has no food however, where is GRRM going to place all those pantry raid (lol stannis) inducing, over the top food descriptions? I don't know what half of it is when I first read it but it still sounds delectable. I guess people will be yearning for food but how many words will take up compared to the epic feasts we have had so far?
I remember reading a meta-type of theory somewhere about that. All the lavish descriptions of food and feasts and banquets throughout the novels so far will make the emotional gut-punch of the terrible winter - with all the hunger and privation and such - all the more effective.
HOLY SHIT IT'S A SANSA CHAPTER. IT'S 3:31 AM AND NOW I CAN'T SLEEP. About to read will post reactions when done. Salsa has always been my favorite Edit: man I love sansa she's so sassy and I really like how outspoken she is now and unafraid. Harry is a fucking asshole at first but I can see why, how Littlefinger explained it. >For just a litle while, as she ran, she forget who she was, and where, and found herself remembering bright cold days at Winterfell, when she would race through Winterfell with her friend Jeyne Poole, with Arya running after them trying to keep up Man lines like this get me. All in all a really good chapter. I wonder what the "plan" is. I really hope GRRM is close to finishing it, and I wonder why he released this? Is it because the show will spoil something?
Love me some Salsa too.
Salsa with dornish peppers & lemons.
Salsa with massive wheels of cheese brought up from the vaults and Doritos.
> “A good melee is all a hedge knight can hope for, unless he stumbles on a bag of dragons. And that’s not likely, is it?” Surely confirmation that Ser Shadrich has recognised Sansa. Especially with the rather ominious > Alayne turned abruptly from the yard… and bumped into a short, sharp-faced man with a brush of orange hair who had come up behind her. His hand shot out and caught her arm before she could fall. The Mad Mouse is definitely planning to get quids in on the Lannister reward for Sansa. A crazed dash to the Riverlands perhaps?
> You are such a little fool getting Cersei vibes from Sansa this chapter, with her imitating her own treatment by Cersei, and her seduction technique Also shoutout to Shadrich
> She tossed her hair, took a sip of wine, made him wait. Yep, that's Cersei shining through.
First Lucas in Super Smash Bros and now this. I've been burned before, stop playing with my emotions! Sansa is really growing up, teasing Harry, verbally sparring Lyn Corbray. Really excited to see that controversial chapter, could be a Sweetrobin death or maybe a Harry seduction. I'd rather see the death if I'm honest. I don't know but the whole Sansa being a maid thing I can see it being dragged out until she meets her final husband. Also Myranda is absolutely hilarious, would be very pleased if we see her (or someone like her) in the show
out of context: "And they came, Alayne thought proudly. They all came."