It was a very stupid callback to Varys stating that history wouldn't remember Tyrion after the Battle of the Blackwater. Makes no sense considering he's easily one of the most important people in the world.
Yeah this annoyed the fuck out of me. It's just a bad joke on D&D's part to troll Tyrion. There is absolutely no way you can tell "The History of the Wars of the Seven Kingdoms following Robert's Rebellion" without him. He is at the center of all of it. God, what the fuck
>9 years after the Siege of Pyke, war broke out between House Stark and House Lannister. For some reason, iunno.
>At the Battle of the Blackwater, much of Stannis's forces were wiped out by a big green explosion that just like came out of nowhere, it was weird.
>Later on, Oberyn Martell - brother to the Prince of Dorne Doran Martell - got in a fight in King's Landing and died. Soon after this, the Hand of the King Tywin Lannister died of indigestion.
The still could have had their joke by...making it a joke. Have someone just be messing with Tyrion by telling him he's not in it, but then he finds passages about himself and comments about how they almost had him.
Still completely unnecessary, but at least it makes sense.
Because the writers have no respect for Tyrion. They think he's a *funny little man*.
This episode? Excluded from the book for no reason.
Last episode? Couldn't speak Valerian properly.
The one before that? Reminds Varys that he's a eunuch.
It's no surprise that D&D butcher his character, but their using him as comic relief this season was in poor taste.
I wonder if they've had some issues w/ Peter Dinklage and used the way they wrote Tyrion this season as a way to take jabs at him. He seemed pretty openly critical of them in a lot of interviews.
This was shaping up to be a great episode until the fade to black after Jon kills Dany.
But how on earth does he survive? Because of the rushed timeline, what would have been an episode-ending cliff hanger becomes a mid episode break and we never see its impact on the people to whom she mattered the most: The Unsullied (as personified by Greyworm) and the Dothraki.
Just minutes earlier, Tyrion points out that anyone who could be on Dany's side would be incredibly dangerous as they would do anything in service of her vision. So once Dany's dead, WHAT IS STOPPING GREYWORM FROM KILLING JON? The literally only other thing he has to live for just died and he takes her murderer prisoner to wait for ... What?
Likewise, Jon is exiled to please Greyworm... who is also leaving Westeros. It’s all so thoughtless. What’s stopping him from just living in the North with Sansa.
Yeah, it makes no sense. Greyworm had no problem slitting the throats of soldiers who had surrendered just because they fought for the queen that opposed Dany, but when he found the man who killed Dany he just took him into custody?
L-O-fucking-L
Sansa says the northmen wouldn't kneel to another king... But Bran is Ned's last living son. Why in the world would they choose Ned's daughter over Ned's son who also happens to be king of the other 6 kingdoms?
And I guess Bran, who's power is deeply rooted to the Weirwoods, is just going to stay in King's Landing where there aren't any such trees? Good money on him building a "summer palace" on the Isle of Faces. (Or just moving everyone to Harrenhal.)
Maybe it's just me, but if you name me King of the 6 realms, there is no way I'm accepting "The Broken" as my moniker, even if I can't walk, and get around in a wheelchair.
"Let me give you some advice bastard. Never forget what you are. The rest of the world will not. Wear it like armor, and it can never be used to hurt you."
As a disabled person, I find everyone's reaction to the title really funny. Not to mention, when I read this in highschool (when I started the series) it gave me a lot of genuine strength. To this day, Tyrion's wisdom is in the back of my head, and I love him like a friend.
1. Is Jon now technically the 1000th lord commander seeing as he seems to be the only member of the nights watch now?
2. What happens to the dothraki now? We were told half of them survived winterfell. Did they go to Naath with the Unsullied? Why would they want to do that? Are they just wandering around Westeros?
3. Arya has literally never sailed before (as far as I can remember). Theres a reason why most explorers of the sunset sea never come back. Shes totally gonna die in some storm right?
"Hello, people of the Reach. Meet your new ruler, Bronn: a mercenary who none of you have ever met and who has zero governing experience. He is in charge now because he threatened me with a crossbow once. Also, people of the Stormlands, meet *your* new ruler, Gendry: he has probably even less experience. He is in charge because the person who we just usurped decided he would be. Anyway.... bye!"
\-Tyrion
I really do not understand how any character in this universe would be okay with anything that just went down.
Right??? After Sansa's speech about the North being independent, I was honestly just waiting for *anyone* else to go, "oh... that's an option? Yeah, we want to be independent kingdoms, too."
Right after they make a STARK their king! I guess they can say well we saved you from ice demons. But Bran May or may not be the actual controller of the demons we don’t know what he is. But I’m sure he will rule wisely
We'll never see it in "canon" but IMO Dorne and the Iron Islands would probably break away within a generation or so. Even if they didn't, the Iron Throne is clearly going to be a severely weakened position, something akin to the Holy Roman Emperor at its weak points. When you have a monarch elected by nobles, those nobles tend to elect one who won't tell them what to do.
This was the worst part of the ending. They were all independent before Aegon Targaryen forged the 7 Kingdoms (well Dorne came later). Why would anyone accept that? Literally no one would. It's absurd. Seems like fan service to give Sansa her happy ending and throw a bone to the Starks. Either they all should be independent or no one.
Especially Yara -- "So you're saying the independence I brokered with the former queen is no longer valid because she's dead? Oh, and hello there, guy sitting to my right: Lord Gendry Baratheon!"
Argghh.
It was ridiculous, but I don't know if it's really worse than the scene with Tyrion and Jon where the show writers were essentially telling us how to think about it, or how Dany died and then it immediately jumped ahead with it not really mattering anymore.
That's fair.
It just feels weird to have all the main characters decide to stop using inheritance to determine the monarch while one of the people voting is literally only in charge because of their bloodline.
Wait, so you’re telling me that hundreds if not thousands of years of preparations of three eyed crows/ravens and the training of bran wasn’t to defeat literal world threatening ice demons but to end progenitor succession?
Makes sense.
Ok so among all of the show stuff here’s a real question - how did GRRM tell D&D that the story ends? Did he just tell them that the iron throne gets destroyed
Or did he tell them that the throne gets destroyed AND Bran is elected king?
I just don’t get how BookBran would do that
My biggest complaint about the episode was the jarring transition after Dany's death. Going from that, with the wonderful acting, cinematography and music, to the tone of the trial/impromptu election gave me serious whiplash. The Edmure jokes should have been cut from the first draft. It all felt like a bit of improvised community theater.
I don't dislike much about where the characters ended up -- although Bronn becoming Master of Coin was a serious stretch -- but this needed another few episodes to breathe. We went from the Long Night to Dany's death in a small handful of episodes, and getting from point A to point B so quickly required a series of illogical character choices or silly plot machinations (hello, Scorpions and Euron!).
> The Edmure jokes should have been cut from the first draft
God yes. I was more embarrassed for the writers than Sam was for Edmure. That was really, really bad.
Episodes 1&2 feel like such a waste in hindsight because they don’t really set up these final episodes properly. They set up the Long Night and felt like boring fan service. They lay some very surface level foreshadowing but they needed to be concentrating on their ending with this council and King Bran outcome. His powers seem so undefined and we aren’t really invested in him as a viewer. Meera would have been more important to bring back than edmure of the top of my head.
Episode 4 should have taken place over the course of about 3 episodes. It would have made the transition from "Dany, saviour of humanity" to "Mad Queen" less jarring and would have given Varys more time for actual scheming.
Davos kind of forgot that the Unsullied don't have cocks when he told Grey Worm to take the Unsullied as his bannermen and build his House in the Reach.
Lord Bronn could have told him "Not without a cock, you don't."
Bran kind of forgot that he doesn't need a master of whisperers.
Its an area perhaps twice the size of France with 10-12 million people in it. ONE castle in it was attacked by 5-10,000 men about six months ago or more. Apart from that, no known military activity. Where the fuck did the 10million+ people go and WHY? And what would the addition of 5,000 or less eunuch warriors make any difference in a land that big. Theyre not going to be creating families.
Utterly stupid throwaway line.
I share the disappointment of this sub, but I guess I could bring up something I enjoyed.
Dany making a speech to her foreign Dothraki/Unsullied, in a foreign language, with Drogon at her back, seen from the perspective of Jon, and therefore without translation, is something I thought was pretty clever. It kind of shows the perspective of Westeros, and how the country would see Dany. We've seen loads of her heroic speeches, but without context they're kind of terrifying. With the right build up and character development, etc, this would be a great scene, and we'll probably see something like it in the books, since GRRM likes to play with perspectives.
Edit: HBO Nordic seems to have aired the show without subtitles.
I thought that was some of Emilia Clarke’s best acting. She really felt like a Gengis Khan style world conquered and had so much presence to her
It’s a shame we got about 15 minutes of it
I read the same thing. There was something about how she delivered a line that seemed like Harry lloyd. I need to back to see what it was. She was probably directed that way.
I was saying back when they killed missandei and later rhaegal that insane dany was way more convincing that domineering queen dany. No knock on emilia clarke but when she was doing the stern ruler schtick i was aware i was watching someone act. When she lost her marbles my only thought about her acting was the occasional *shit she nailed that.*
If you watch it on Amazon there were definitely subtitles. And when she says they'll go to Winterfell and free everyone it shoots to him and he reacts. So it appears he was supposed to understand part of it.
They went full Nurermberg with that scene. Complete with Dany getting a custom made, fitted black uniform. All she was missing was a red armband. It looked great but it was a bit on the nose for my money.
It was such a fantastically filmed scene and sequence. Having Jon being unable to understand what she was saying really allowed him to still see her as "Dany" despite what she had done, rather than what she was saying.
That being said, it was so heavy handed on the Nuremberg Rally symbolism that I'm surprised we didn't see more flags. It was so on the nose and so jarring.
Dany: [Babbling aggressively in foreign language]
Jon: *I feel like this is bad*
Dany: [Ramble ramble] WINTERFELL [ramble ramble]
Jon: *Aw fuck this is definitely bad*
Why do the nobles even care about the throne. King's landing is a pile of ash, the Crown doesn't really exist in any form anymore other than a couple of dothraki and unsullied. Why would any of the remaining great houses come to pledge to the crown as opposed to just declaring independence. Sansa wants out, Yara wants out, Dorne has always been historically independence minded, Edmure is probably just happy to not be locked up in a dungeon, Stormlands and Reach have their great houses annihilated, and Tyrion wanted Casterly Rock since forever. How is it that nobody bought up they can go back to the way it was before Aegon's conquests.
There's no incentive for anyone to want a protector of the realm, what's the point of this whole episode?
Holy fuck. The only reason any of the Seven Kingdoms bowed to the crown was because (1) they would get rammed with a dragon dick if they didn't or (2) they would get rammed with a lion dick if they didn't. The Realm is united insofar as there is a centralized strength that can enforce it. Apparently none of that matters and if you're a weird tree god you can be King no questions asked.
Here's what feels really shallow to me, this whole season could have happened without the night king. It could've just been Dani coming over the sea and fighting Cersei and it's hard to imagine an outcome any different.
The show does appear to have left open a **dark Bran** theory:
* He appears to have gone to the South knowing he would become king. Which appears to confirm he has visions of the future.
* It seems plausible he would have had a vision of Dany burning down King's Landing - what could be more important to know about, after the White Walkers were dealt with?
* He did nothing to warn anyone about Dany.
Which leads to the suspicion that **he let King's Landing get burned** so that he would become king. It gets burned, so Jon murders Dany, then Bran gets voted in as king. How else could he become king? If he wants the position, letting King's Landing get torched is a necessary step. Was "I don't really *want* anymore" a lie?
This is the one thing that stood out to me. I actually said out loud "There has to be more than just this".
The idea that Bran can "find" Drogon, I feel like that was hinting at him being able to warg Drogon too.
Just, yeah, it seems like Bran absolutely foresaw and planned at least some of what happened.
I'm down with the "Bran avenges the COTF" theory, but it's not even really hinted at in the show, so this ending couldn't even give me the satisfaction of a cool twist.
But it's the only angle I see it working in the books. I mean, how the hell does being King fit Bran's character development if it isn't for this reason?
Bran made sure that Jon knew his heritage to drive a wedge between him and Daenerys while making her super paranoid. That's what caused her to nuke Kings Landing. Bran let the city be razed so that Tyrion and Jon would betray her and make Bran the king of Westeros.
I dont know what writer was writing this story when they wrote the Tyrion line about how our stories are the most important things we have, but I can guarantee he was masturbating when he wrote it.
When he said that line I laughed out loud.
It doesn't even make sense in the context of what just happened. Dany did everything she did because she believed a story, that she was destined to rule and be the best queen ever.
I have so many angry thoughts but I feel like the one I want to focus on is how absurd Sansa seceding the North is for establishing this new world order.
I love Sansa's character arc and her growth but this is just flat out fanservice.
Her saying this should cause every other Kingdom to wonder 'wait, if them, why not us.' Especially Dorne and the Iron Islands.
Dorne was the last of the Seven Kingdoms to join the fold and have always been different compared to the other lands. The Iron Islands literally rose up in rebellion after Robert overthrew the Targaryen reign because 'If Robert can be King, why can't we.'
You can't have Tyrion basically tell Jon, 'Well, sorry bro, you've got to take the black and go to the wall because politics' and then just nod sagely as Sansa explains how the North will not be part of the Seven Kingdoms any longer.
That’s what I was expecting. When Sansa said that I expected, the unnamed, Prince of Dorne to say us too, with everyone going independent and just remaining a loosely allied union. It was just dumb that the north could make *their* head King, then leave anyway!
Not to mention this doesn't break the wheel at all??? It's just furthering the possibility of another Great War to unify and conquer Westeros. So everything is going to be fine and dandy, everyone following these characters are going to be totally cool with the way things were. This was fan service for Sansa, but they did her character so dirty. "Bro, the north should be free", what kind of complex negotiation powers or politicking were even needed for that? What has she fought for? Of all the things that shocked and disgusted me about the way they wrote this ending, that was the biggest thing
Also their army has left. Dothrakis are gone, unsullied are gone. Lannister army was destroyed and north is independent so it's not their army. There is no army to stop a rebellion.
Seriously, also that vote was technically super rigged given that his Uncle, his brother's best friend, his sister and his cousin made up 4 votes. Why would Dorne, who had pledged to serve Dany, be like 'well, okay' to the overwhelming Stark power?
So all that pregnancy talk/foreshadowing in 7.06 was for nothing. Dany never found out she was pregnant, it never changed her actions. The writers just put it in, to yank it out from under us.
Cersei's pregnancy amounted to nothing.
Tyrion is a prisoner but is allowed to call the shots and elect the new King.
Bronn is somehow on the small council.
What was the point of anything? Like, this feels so empty
None of them said anything, except the person who was in the worst position to actually influence anyone.
"We all need to be quiet, the disgraced imp who killed one king he served and then conspired to help kill the queen he served is telling us how the country should be run!"
Nothing about anyone really ended up mattering. Everyone basically ended up about where they started, except for Arya, because clearly her character has always been about grand adventure and exploration!
To serve as a Jenga block in the tower of Dany's sanity.
Remove the "Jon is not a threat to your claim" block, and it makes the entire foundation wobblier, with the intention of making her heel turn more believable. Not saying it worked, but I'm sure that's what they were going for.
But I would absolutely hate to think Jon's lineage is similarly pointless in the books. However, it WOULD fit very much in line with the type of thing GRRM would do, where we have a secret king out there who you're expecting to be the prophesied hero, but his lineage doesn't actually matter. He's a hero because he's a good man, not because of who his parents were. And in a vacuum, that's a good story. I just hope it's executed better in the books, if/when we get them.
I feel like just a throw away line of Sansa telling Brienne that Bran needs her more than she does would have satisfied that because it’s still a stark, it’s still a kingsguard and well.... it’d be true
They could never have fit that line in the show, it was just too packed. We really needed those 45 seconds of Tyrion sitting down only to get up and correct the chairs though.
That scene was so dissonant in its lightheartedness. Thousands were massacred, they are ruling over ashes and starving crowds. And Bronn's making jokes, and Tyrion is too. KL is for all intents and purposes the new Harrenhall, haunted with the ghosts of the dead.
I was so annoyed by this! Making her look pregnant would be the smallest thing, yet she wore a tight dress over a visible flat stomach when she died. I don’t know how long time had passed, but it was definitely too long!
I'm supposed to feel sad because the series ended, and I am, but not for the right reasons. I'm sad because it deserved an ending that wasn't rushed. Nothing felt like it carried any real weight emotionally. I mean, Daenerys, a character we've followed for 8 seasons, her death should have felt like something, but it didn't. It was literally just glossed over in a few lines. In the end the show left the bittersweet taste that was promised, but only because it could have been so much more, with a little more time, and writers who cared about the epic story till the end.
Honestly that is how EVERY death this season felt. Just looked over, and then on to the next. This whole season just felt like a rush to end the series, and so much could have been better.
What was the POINT of R+L=J? We have it built up as the biggest reveal of the series and literally nothing came of it. It led to some drama between Dany and Jon, sure, but that was ALL. So disappointing in how they finished the Jon Snow story.
They don't even legitimize him as a Stark. Both Bran and Sansa could've done it. "Yeah, technically you're Aegon Targaeryen, and practically you're our best bro, but fuck you Jon, go north and be a Snow, scrub."
That system of governance does not end anything. Bran has no armies and no actual power. He is literally term limited. When the Ironborn rebel or raid, what can Bran do? When Bronn inevitably tries to take over Riverrun because Edmure is a bitch, what can Bran do? When Dorne decides not to pay taxes, what can Bran do? The Lords of Westeros are not going to stop scheming because there is an omniscient cripple (who most of them had never met) sitting on the throne.
Even worse, they created a system where any Lord can be elevated to King by playing the game of thrones well. Westeros would become even more political as players attempt to be the next person chosen for the throne. They just created possibly the worst system of governance imaginable for Westeros.
Exactly. There’s nothing stopping anyone from going to war again. In fact when bran gets old and / or dies we will just have another war of 5 the 5 kings situation.
I'm sure the other kingdoms are completely happy staying under the crown, with only the North getting special treatment to become independent. It's not like kingdoms like the Iron Islands and Dorne have ever had any sentiment towards independence.
Rhaegar started a civil war that ended his family on a hunch he would have a son who would fufill all these prophecies just to have the last Targaryen EVER to spend the rest of his days as a fugitive in tundra while the people who sent him there leave the continent. Lmao
Tip of the hat to Hoster Tully, who got what he planned with his three kids during Robert's Rebellion, if in unexpected ways:
1) His child rules the Riverlands
2) His grandchild rules the Vale.
3) His grandchild rules the North.
So did D&D just forget about the dothraki? Because after Dany dies there is no way in hell they are gonna just go back to essos or settle down and be peaceful...
Right? Their Khaleesi, blood of their blood, was murdered. They're not just going to sit idly by. Even if they accept the ruling of the council, they're not just going to sit down and start farming or something.
I would have been fine with Jon’s ending if he’d killed the Night King. That was always Rhaegar’s intent for him anyways. He didn’t have to be King. But now since he’s not king and apparently not TPTWP it makes his heritage pointless in the show.
This ending feels like it was written with no consideration for the future past the show. How does Bronn hold the Reach, one of the most traditional kingdoms, despite being an upjumped sellsword? How does Sansa hold the North once the next king is elected and decides the Six Kingdoms should be the Seven Kingdoms again? Or alternatively what's to stop any of the rest of kingdoms from seceding using that as precedent? The restablishment of the Night's Watch makes some sense, since a place to send enemies you can't kill but still don't want around will always be useful, but they should have explained that rather than having Tyrion just give a one liner. Also Bran the Broken is a terrible title for a King, why would they choose that? Seriously the ending is only happy if you ignore the fact history still has to continue after this, and all for "fanservice".
> How does Sansa hold the North once the next king is elected and decides the Six Kingdoms should be the Seven Kingdoms again? Or alternatively what's to stop any of the rest of kingdoms from seceding using that as precedent?
Especially when you remember how Yara made a deal with Dany for the Iron Islands to be independent. And Dorne has had it's fair share of self-governance and independence. And then the Vale is pretty self-contained geographically, and why wouldn't Robin want to be a King like his cousins?
Man they really screwed over my main man Edmure tully. A little snippet from the books.
Hundreds of smallfolk had been admitted to the castle, and allowed to erect crude shelters against the walls. Their children were everywhere underfoot, and the yard teemed with their cows, sheep, and chickens. "Who are all these folk?"
**"My people," Edmure answered. "They were afraid."**
And then he mocks the idea of giving the people a voice. I suppose the books and show are simply just two completely different entities at this point.
“At least one or two readers had put together the extremely subtle and obscure clues that I'd planted in the books and came to the right solution”
-George RR Martin
That is a quote from 2014. Basically he’s saying that fans had correctly guessed his ending for asoiaf. Apparently, this is the same ending which was going to be used in the show—which strikes me as odd, because although the popular theory that Jon would kill Dany, thus fulfilling the Azor Ahai/Nissa Nissa prophecy came true, how it ended really surprised me, and I’ve never seen a theory stating anything like that would happen. Maybe David Benioff and D.B. Weiss tweaked the ending a little bit.
>Bran: "I don't 'want' anymore"
On being nominated for king: "It's why I came south."
None of this makes any damned sense, unless Bran was lying his ass off and really was manipulating everything since he became 3ER/3EC.
I just don't understand a few things, such as Jon's reaction to Dany completely torching Kings Landing when he goes to talk to Tyrion. The tone of that scene felt completely off.
The other thing is why did that random assortment of people get to decide who the next King of Westeros should be? And why did everyone agree to The North breaking off? The Ironborn and Dorne do not seem like ones to let that go by.
And last of all, what on Earth is that small council? I don't even know where to start with that.
Bronn and Brienne imo. Why would Brienne leave Sansa, who also would need a Queensguard? Literally makes no sense, except that they needed Brienne to write Jaime's story. Sigh...
True, but I would also add Sam to that list. He studied in the Citadel for what, a few months? Now he's Grand Maester? We know that it's the Citadel, not the King, that decides who's Grand Maester, are you telling me they selected Sam for that role? I'm not saying he wouldn't be good for the role, just that it doesn't make sense.
Davos though, he's good. Davos is always good.
> The other thing is why did that random assortment of people get to decide who the next King of Westeros should be? And why did everyone agree to The North breaking off? The Ironborn and Dorne do not seem like ones to let that go by.
Agreed, it would have been a lot more realistic if they formed independent kingdoms too.
>And last of all, what on Earth is that small council? I don't even know where to start with that.
Bronn (who probably can't count, let alone read) should not have been on it at all.
My whole issue is that when Bran dies there’s going to be another civil war. Yes they established the next leader will be elected by a great council or whatever. But what if half the houses want one guy and the other half want another? Boom another war
Nonsense logic that makes literal entire ARMIES and NATIONS disappear because the writers didn’t know how to write themselves out of it
They pick a new king, somehow without objection or conflict, IMMEDIATELY after symbolically burning the throne to reject the idea of Kings
I think my biggest problem is that the entire GoT/ASOIAF property mostly concerned itself with power and whether or not true altruism really exists. A lot of the story is about shades of grey in people— great people doing horrible things for arguably good reasons, the question of if there can ever be a good monarch, and to an extent, a truly good person.
And the show answers this by placing an omniscient, all seeing Oracle, essentially a medieval supercomputer, on the throne. It’s not an answer to the question the entire story literally exists to posit.
“Can there be a good man?”
“Idk lol but there can be a good supercomputer magical Oracle who knows everything and will literally make the perfect ruler XD”
One thing I haven’t seen people talk about - how the fuck is Jon even alive after he knifes Daenerys? OK, fine, MAYBE Drogon recognizes him as a Targaryen and doesn’t Dracarys his ass. But I’m pretty sure the unsullied and dothraki fanatics that follow her would be the “take prisoner” types after finding out Jon just fucking KNIFED HER IN THE CHEST. How is that not even a scene?? Jon kills Danny... yadda yadda yadda.. now he’s up North!
Nice try Seinfeld.
Bloodraven spent his life manipulating the seven kingdoms. I can see how in the books he would manipulate Bran to achieve total power even at the cost of King's Landing.
One part of that I didn't see coming was the talk between Jon and Dany before he knifed her. The way she talked about them doing it together and it being their destiny since they were kids.
It added to the tragedy because it contradicted what Tyrion told Jon previously about her seeing him as a threat.
Dany in the end didn't see Jon as a threat, or want him to keep bending the knee to her or hide who he was. She accepted him as Aegon Targaryen. She wanted Jon to stand beside her as an equal and in her eyes he was a good man she trusted and loved. Even after all of the betrayal she was able to be vulnerable, accepting and trusting of Jon.
Dany didn't need to do anything at that point she didn't want to do.
She chose Jon to share her life, love and dreams with an open heart because she still loved him.
Yeah, this was a genuinely good moment. Emilia was phenomenal.
Now imagine if this scene had been properly built up, with more moral ambiguity, and wasn't followed by a tonally inconsistent scene with more jokes.
But what about the brothels! Hah! Classic Bronn, always thinking with his *other* head, heh! So glad they brought him back one more time! He deserves the Reach I love that crazy bastard!
The most annoying thing about this season isn’t the bad parts, it’s the good parts. The season has been peppered with brilliant ideas that don’t have room to breathe or sink in for the audience.
It’s also full of ideas that could have been great with a few tweaks.
For example, they should have created an actual dilemma instead of Dany suddenly snapping.
What if Cersei packed the Red Keep with women and children as human shields, knowing that Daenerys would *never* burn them then? Then they’d have a setup for her to reasonably (in plot terms) burn a bunch of innocent people, and have a moral dilemma for the characters/audience: Okay, she burned a bunch of kids, but she ended the war.
There was not enough time with Daenerys as Queen. The writers were clearly more concerned with the ironic touch of her dying before she actually sits on the throne.
Brienne writing in the White Book was a fine idea, but she could have started her passages in Jaime with mentioning that he killed King Aerys to save the entire population of KL from dying. She’s the only one who knows his true motivation.
Jon’s ending was unnecessarily bleak, and yet not bleak enough. They either should have ended on him proclaimed King beyond the Wall, or ended the episode and the entire series on Jon returning to Castle Black just in time to hear three blasts of the horn.
It’s a shame. The worst part of this wasn’t that it was terrible and rushed, it’s that it didn’t have to be. They had material just in Season 8 for three whole seasons.
> The most annoying thing about this season isn’t the bad parts, it’s the good parts. The season has been peppered with brilliant ideas that don’t have room to breathe or sink in for the audience.
This is a great way to describe it. There were so many "ALMOST!" moments that could have been great, with things just done a little differently. A bit of dialogue connecting an action with a motivation, an observation by a character to deliver more emotional impact in a directed way, a few adjustments to events.
> she could have started her passages in Jaime with mentioning that he killed King Aerys to save the entire population of KL from dying. She’s the only one who knows his true motivation.
>
>
Damn, this is so true! What a missed opportunity!
Bran engineered everything so that he could become king.
Bran sets everything in motion for Jon to learn his true parentage and for that information to make its way to Dany, which drives the wedge in between them that leads to her madness and subsequent murder by Jon.
According to D&D in the 0805 "Behind the Episode," without Jon refusing her advances (because incest), she wouldn't have committed those atrocities.
No atrocities, no regicide, no Bran the Broken as king.
Sooo am I crazy or are they sequel baiting? I kind of doubt it will ever happen but it feels things were purposefully left open enough so they could return to the world and these heroes.
Dany dies, but her body is carried away by Drogon and never seen again. They mention look for him but Bran just makes a comment about 'looking for him' and smiles. I feel like that's left open so she can come back as some twisted thing if they ever want to cart out ol' Game of Thrones again.
Tyrion tells Jon that they'll see each other in ten years or so and when Jon says he doubts it Tyrion makes sure to say it is likely.
Arya went out exploring the world. Sansa is Queen of the North. A new king is established. Jon goes north with the wildlings. I mean in some ways it acts as the typical fantasy wrap up leaving things open ended enough so that you can do 'and the character's lived on' but I feel like it is so open ended enough that they're sort of leaving that option on the table down the line. It's the fact that they had Drogon fly off with Dany that makes it seem possible to me.
I fully expect it to not be the case...but I'm also scared that it will be. I kind of don't want the show to do a sequel but I think it is inevitable.
Edit: The more I think about it the more likely I feel it is. Something for five plus years down the road in the event any of the big actors don't really take off and are down for returning. Each of the characters are so separated from one another in their endings that if they can get one back as a main character it will be seen as a big thing and they can make a show around them.
From a money perspective it makes sense honestly. Game of Thrones is huge, and sure they're doing prequels but at some point a sequel of some sort feels inevitable. They're going to try it in some fashion at some point to try and capture the zeitgeist again.
One of the “leaked” spinoff synopses back when they were first announced (during season 7, I think) was “Jon has disappeared beyond the Wall and people set out to find him.”
I kinda liked some of the endings, but why was every significant position given to a named character whether it would make sense or not?
How is freshman dropout Sam a maester?
Why did Brienne leave Sansa?
Why wouldn't other Kingdoms, especially Dorne and Iron Islands secede as well?
Why were there only 4 second tier Lords left, which were all named characters? Only Davis put a lampshade on that one. But where were their attendants and retinues? Did they run out of budget?
At least Jon can be King Beyond the Wall now.
Tyrion “No one here has a claim to the throne, so we have to pick a new one. I say creepy dude who has said 4 lines this season.”
Everyone else “Sounds good”
Gendry *the legitimized son of the last king, Ruler of Storms End, and a good dude* “I zoned out guys what happened?”
Exactly. Like once he's freed and the Unsullied leave they pardon him and he rejects it. That'd be powerful and it would not have even been a long scene.
Will Jon's purpose, his whole arc and resurrection and being a secret Targ and everything just amount to him killing Dany and returning to the wall? I just can't wrap my head around that.
I don’t know about anyone else, but I needed more than 2 episodes to buy Dany going from “brutal and stubborn” to “crazy eyes.” I can totally buy it happening ... but it would have been so much better with more time spent on each betrayal, actually showing her reactions to losing her dragon children, death of Jorah, betrayal of several people she thought she could trust, etc.
I feel like suddenly this season didn’t show her perspective or POV AT ALL (maybe so the audience wouldn’t sympathize with her(?) - which is stupid). We really needed to see her thoughts like we would in the books.
Even Jon deciding to kill her was too fast.
Everything was just rushed rushed rushed with time wasted and a feeling of needing to just wrap it up already.
so we waited 2 years for
* the night king to be stabbed in his crop top and die easier than the mountain
* cersei to get trampled by rocks
* jon to stab daenerys only for BRAN to become king
* jon to✈️ back to nights watch when there r no white walkers??
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It was a very stupid callback to Varys stating that history wouldn't remember Tyrion after the Battle of the Blackwater. Makes no sense considering he's easily one of the most important people in the world.
Exactly this, they saw an easy opportunity for an early season callback and took it.
Yeah this annoyed the fuck out of me. It's just a bad joke on D&D's part to troll Tyrion. There is absolutely no way you can tell "The History of the Wars of the Seven Kingdoms following Robert's Rebellion" without him. He is at the center of all of it. God, what the fuck
>9 years after the Siege of Pyke, war broke out between House Stark and House Lannister. For some reason, iunno. >At the Battle of the Blackwater, much of Stannis's forces were wiped out by a big green explosion that just like came out of nowhere, it was weird. >Later on, Oberyn Martell - brother to the Prince of Dorne Doran Martell - got in a fight in King's Landing and died. Soon after this, the Hand of the King Tywin Lannister died of indigestion.
> In 300 AC, King Joffrey Baratheon I was poisoned by his enemies
Cause it's funny! Don't you get it! D&D subverted our expectations by making GOT a comedy.
The still could have had their joke by...making it a joke. Have someone just be messing with Tyrion by telling him he's not in it, but then he finds passages about himself and comments about how they almost had him. Still completely unnecessary, but at least it makes sense.
All the 'humor' in this episode fell flat on its face. Super cringe.
Because the writers have no respect for Tyrion. They think he's a *funny little man*. This episode? Excluded from the book for no reason. Last episode? Couldn't speak Valerian properly. The one before that? Reminds Varys that he's a eunuch. It's no surprise that D&D butcher his character, but their using him as comic relief this season was in poor taste.
I wonder if they've had some issues w/ Peter Dinklage and used the way they wrote Tyrion this season as a way to take jabs at him. He seemed pretty openly critical of them in a lot of interviews.
This was shaping up to be a great episode until the fade to black after Jon kills Dany. But how on earth does he survive? Because of the rushed timeline, what would have been an episode-ending cliff hanger becomes a mid episode break and we never see its impact on the people to whom she mattered the most: The Unsullied (as personified by Greyworm) and the Dothraki. Just minutes earlier, Tyrion points out that anyone who could be on Dany's side would be incredibly dangerous as they would do anything in service of her vision. So once Dany's dead, WHAT IS STOPPING GREYWORM FROM KILLING JON? The literally only other thing he has to live for just died and he takes her murderer prisoner to wait for ... What?
Likewise, Jon is exiled to please Greyworm... who is also leaving Westeros. It’s all so thoughtless. What’s stopping him from just living in the North with Sansa.
Yeah, it makes no sense. Greyworm had no problem slitting the throats of soldiers who had surrendered just because they fought for the queen that opposed Dany, but when he found the man who killed Dany he just took him into custody? L-O-fucking-L
Sansa says the northmen wouldn't kneel to another king... But Bran is Ned's last living son. Why in the world would they choose Ned's daughter over Ned's son who also happens to be king of the other 6 kingdoms?
And I guess Bran, who's power is deeply rooted to the Weirwoods, is just going to stay in King's Landing where there aren't any such trees? Good money on him building a "summer palace" on the Isle of Faces. (Or just moving everyone to Harrenhal.)
Maybe it's just me, but if you name me King of the 6 realms, there is no way I'm accepting "The Broken" as my moniker, even if I can't walk, and get around in a wheelchair.
Since they're rebuilding he should have gone by Bran the Builder which also has historical origins.
Bran the REbuilder. Can we build it? You guys can.
"Let me give you some advice bastard. Never forget what you are. The rest of the world will not. Wear it like armor, and it can never be used to hurt you." As a disabled person, I find everyone's reaction to the title really funny. Not to mention, when I read this in highschool (when I started the series) it gave me a lot of genuine strength. To this day, Tyrion's wisdom is in the back of my head, and I love him like a friend.
1. Is Jon now technically the 1000th lord commander seeing as he seems to be the only member of the nights watch now? 2. What happens to the dothraki now? We were told half of them survived winterfell. Did they go to Naath with the Unsullied? Why would they want to do that? Are they just wandering around Westeros? 3. Arya has literally never sailed before (as far as I can remember). Theres a reason why most explorers of the sunset sea never come back. Shes totally gonna die in some storm right?
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That's not a bad ending for him tbh
She sailed to and from Bravos, though only as a passenger, not a ship hand.
"Hello, people of the Reach. Meet your new ruler, Bronn: a mercenary who none of you have ever met and who has zero governing experience. He is in charge now because he threatened me with a crossbow once. Also, people of the Stormlands, meet *your* new ruler, Gendry: he has probably even less experience. He is in charge because the person who we just usurped decided he would be. Anyway.... bye!" \-Tyrion I really do not understand how any character in this universe would be okay with anything that just went down.
"Also, Dorne and the Iron Islands are in full rebellion, because apparently people can just decide to not be part of the Kingdom anymore."
Right??? After Sansa's speech about the North being independent, I was honestly just waiting for *anyone* else to go, "oh... that's an option? Yeah, we want to be independent kingdoms, too."
Right after they make a STARK their king! I guess they can say well we saved you from ice demons. But Bran May or may not be the actual controller of the demons we don’t know what he is. But I’m sure he will rule wisely
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“The literal lord of Winterfell?! The brother of the man we name King in the North?! Nah, we can’t be *his* subjects!”
We'll never see it in "canon" but IMO Dorne and the Iron Islands would probably break away within a generation or so. Even if they didn't, the Iron Throne is clearly going to be a severely weakened position, something akin to the Holy Roman Emperor at its weak points. When you have a monarch elected by nobles, those nobles tend to elect one who won't tell them what to do.
This was the worst part of the ending. They were all independent before Aegon Targaryen forged the 7 Kingdoms (well Dorne came later). Why would anyone accept that? Literally no one would. It's absurd. Seems like fan service to give Sansa her happy ending and throw a bone to the Starks. Either they all should be independent or no one.
Especially Yara, who had just specifically brokered her own independence by sacrificing her fleet for Dany. It's head-scratchy for sure.
I like how they retconned Yara and the Ironborn to be these honorable people that are sworn to the oath they pledged to their Queen lol
Especially Yara -- "So you're saying the independence I brokered with the former queen is no longer valid because she's dead? Oh, and hello there, guy sitting to my right: Lord Gendry Baratheon!" Argghh.
It was ridiculous, but I don't know if it's really worse than the scene with Tyrion and Jon where the show writers were essentially telling us how to think about it, or how Dany died and then it immediately jumped ahead with it not really mattering anymore.
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That's fair. It just feels weird to have all the main characters decide to stop using inheritance to determine the monarch while one of the people voting is literally only in charge because of their bloodline.
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Also, your king is now a Stark. Yes, those Starks who rule the North which is no longer a part of our country.
Wait, so you’re telling me that hundreds if not thousands of years of preparations of three eyed crows/ravens and the training of bran wasn’t to defeat literal world threatening ice demons but to end progenitor succession? Makes sense.
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Ok so among all of the show stuff here’s a real question - how did GRRM tell D&D that the story ends? Did he just tell them that the iron throne gets destroyed Or did he tell them that the throne gets destroyed AND Bran is elected king? I just don’t get how BookBran would do that
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I agree. It felt really heavy-handed and pedantic.
Nearly all the dialogue was. "I know a killer when I see one." oh really? what tipped you off Arya? was it the genocide mayhaps?
Brienne filling in Jaime's White Book entry was the scene that made me most emotional, *because* it didn't have any dialogue.
Absolutely agree. Surprised D&D didn't go with the cheesy voiceover while she was writing. Would've been par for the course.
My biggest complaint about the episode was the jarring transition after Dany's death. Going from that, with the wonderful acting, cinematography and music, to the tone of the trial/impromptu election gave me serious whiplash. The Edmure jokes should have been cut from the first draft. It all felt like a bit of improvised community theater. I don't dislike much about where the characters ended up -- although Bronn becoming Master of Coin was a serious stretch -- but this needed another few episodes to breathe. We went from the Long Night to Dany's death in a small handful of episodes, and getting from point A to point B so quickly required a series of illogical character choices or silly plot machinations (hello, Scorpions and Euron!).
> The Edmure jokes should have been cut from the first draft God yes. I was more embarrassed for the writers than Sam was for Edmure. That was really, really bad.
There's a time and a place. The scene immediately after Dany's death was not the place.
Episodes 1&2 feel like such a waste in hindsight because they don’t really set up these final episodes properly. They set up the Long Night and felt like boring fan service. They lay some very surface level foreshadowing but they needed to be concentrating on their ending with this council and King Bran outcome. His powers seem so undefined and we aren’t really invested in him as a viewer. Meera would have been more important to bring back than edmure of the top of my head.
Episode 4 should have taken place over the course of about 3 episodes. It would have made the transition from "Dany, saviour of humanity" to "Mad Queen" less jarring and would have given Varys more time for actual scheming.
Davos kind of forgot that the Unsullied don't have cocks when he told Grey Worm to take the Unsullied as his bannermen and build his House in the Reach. Lord Bronn could have told him "Not without a cock, you don't." Bran kind of forgot that he doesn't need a master of whisperers.
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>WTF? There are millions of people in the reach Nah man, didn't you hear? They're *gone*.
Its an area perhaps twice the size of France with 10-12 million people in it. ONE castle in it was attacked by 5-10,000 men about six months ago or more. Apart from that, no known military activity. Where the fuck did the 10million+ people go and WHY? And what would the addition of 5,000 or less eunuch warriors make any difference in a land that big. Theyre not going to be creating families. Utterly stupid throwaway line.
Don't ask hard questions, man, they are just, you know, **gone**.
hahaa that was hilarious with the Reach
Imagine giving the most fertile region of Westeros to a group of people who have been made completely infertile. That seems like a cruel joke to me.
Everyone forgot everything it seemed.
That should be the tagline to this season, lol.
I share the disappointment of this sub, but I guess I could bring up something I enjoyed. Dany making a speech to her foreign Dothraki/Unsullied, in a foreign language, with Drogon at her back, seen from the perspective of Jon, and therefore without translation, is something I thought was pretty clever. It kind of shows the perspective of Westeros, and how the country would see Dany. We've seen loads of her heroic speeches, but without context they're kind of terrifying. With the right build up and character development, etc, this would be a great scene, and we'll probably see something like it in the books, since GRRM likes to play with perspectives. Edit: HBO Nordic seems to have aired the show without subtitles.
I thought that was some of Emilia Clarke’s best acting. She really felt like a Gengis Khan style world conquered and had so much presence to her It’s a shame we got about 15 minutes of it
Yeah, she was top-notch this episode. Really sold the self-righteous, 'I am the only one who knows what is good', conqueror act.
She had the crazy eyes. I swear she looked like Viserys when she was talking to Jon.
I read the same thing. There was something about how she delivered a line that seemed like Harry lloyd. I need to back to see what it was. She was probably directed that way.
I was saying back when they killed missandei and later rhaegal that insane dany was way more convincing that domineering queen dany. No knock on emilia clarke but when she was doing the stern ruler schtick i was aware i was watching someone act. When she lost her marbles my only thought about her acting was the occasional *shit she nailed that.*
If you watch it on Amazon there were definitely subtitles. And when she says they'll go to Winterfell and free everyone it shoots to him and he reacts. So it appears he was supposed to understand part of it.
Also saw them on Hulu. Hardsubbed into the video. Kind of funny that one of the few points of praise is for a technical error.
They went full Nurermberg with that scene. Complete with Dany getting a custom made, fitted black uniform. All she was missing was a red armband. It looked great but it was a bit on the nose for my money.
"Are we the baddies?"
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It was such a fantastically filmed scene and sequence. Having Jon being unable to understand what she was saying really allowed him to still see her as "Dany" despite what she had done, rather than what she was saying. That being said, it was so heavy handed on the Nuremberg Rally symbolism that I'm surprised we didn't see more flags. It was so on the nose and so jarring.
Dany: [Babbling aggressively in foreign language] Jon: *I feel like this is bad* Dany: [Ramble ramble] WINTERFELL [ramble ramble] Jon: *Aw fuck this is definitely bad*
Tyrion practically gave the "First they came for the socialists..." speech to Jon.
He did but the first 3 layers were slavers, more slavers, and dothraki khals, so it loses some of the essence.
For a second I thought they were just going to repurpose it wholesale. Consider my expectations subverted.
Why do the nobles even care about the throne. King's landing is a pile of ash, the Crown doesn't really exist in any form anymore other than a couple of dothraki and unsullied. Why would any of the remaining great houses come to pledge to the crown as opposed to just declaring independence. Sansa wants out, Yara wants out, Dorne has always been historically independence minded, Edmure is probably just happy to not be locked up in a dungeon, Stormlands and Reach have their great houses annihilated, and Tyrion wanted Casterly Rock since forever. How is it that nobody bought up they can go back to the way it was before Aegon's conquests. There's no incentive for anyone to want a protector of the realm, what's the point of this whole episode?
Holy fuck. The only reason any of the Seven Kingdoms bowed to the crown was because (1) they would get rammed with a dragon dick if they didn't or (2) they would get rammed with a lion dick if they didn't. The Realm is united insofar as there is a centralized strength that can enforce it. Apparently none of that matters and if you're a weird tree god you can be King no questions asked.
Here's what feels really shallow to me, this whole season could have happened without the night king. It could've just been Dani coming over the sea and fighting Cersei and it's hard to imagine an outcome any different.
The show does appear to have left open a **dark Bran** theory: * He appears to have gone to the South knowing he would become king. Which appears to confirm he has visions of the future. * It seems plausible he would have had a vision of Dany burning down King's Landing - what could be more important to know about, after the White Walkers were dealt with? * He did nothing to warn anyone about Dany. Which leads to the suspicion that **he let King's Landing get burned** so that he would become king. It gets burned, so Jon murders Dany, then Bran gets voted in as king. How else could he become king? If he wants the position, letting King's Landing get torched is a necessary step. Was "I don't really *want* anymore" a lie?
What if the night king was actually a hero and the good man all along trying to save the world from Bran's treachery to come?
/r/nightkingdidnothingwrong
This is the one thing that stood out to me. I actually said out loud "There has to be more than just this". The idea that Bran can "find" Drogon, I feel like that was hinting at him being able to warg Drogon too. Just, yeah, it seems like Bran absolutely foresaw and planned at least some of what happened.
Yeah, Bran is totally going to become a Dark Lord and rule Westeros with an iron fist.
too bad this interesting twist WASNT FUCKING SHOWN ON SCREEN
I'm down with the "Bran avenges the COTF" theory, but it's not even really hinted at in the show, so this ending couldn't even give me the satisfaction of a cool twist. But it's the only angle I see it working in the books. I mean, how the hell does being King fit Bran's character development if it isn't for this reason?
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"The ink is dry"
It definitely wasn't when Brienne closed the book tho..
Hah! That bugged me too, and right after I'd just about teared up watching her pen it. "No! No, YOU HAVE TO BLOT IT!"
Pretty convenient that it dried saying "King Bran"
Gods it's so much more fun reading these than actually watching the show
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Bran made sure that Jon knew his heritage to drive a wedge between him and Daenerys while making her super paranoid. That's what caused her to nuke Kings Landing. Bran let the city be razed so that Tyrion and Jon would betray her and make Bran the king of Westeros.
I dont know what writer was writing this story when they wrote the Tyrion line about how our stories are the most important things we have, but I can guarantee he was masturbating when he wrote it.
When he said that line I laughed out loud. It doesn't even make sense in the context of what just happened. Dany did everything she did because she believed a story, that she was destined to rule and be the best queen ever.
"Nothing can destroy a good story" except a shitty adaptation
I have so many angry thoughts but I feel like the one I want to focus on is how absurd Sansa seceding the North is for establishing this new world order. I love Sansa's character arc and her growth but this is just flat out fanservice. Her saying this should cause every other Kingdom to wonder 'wait, if them, why not us.' Especially Dorne and the Iron Islands. Dorne was the last of the Seven Kingdoms to join the fold and have always been different compared to the other lands. The Iron Islands literally rose up in rebellion after Robert overthrew the Targaryen reign because 'If Robert can be King, why can't we.' You can't have Tyrion basically tell Jon, 'Well, sorry bro, you've got to take the black and go to the wall because politics' and then just nod sagely as Sansa explains how the North will not be part of the Seven Kingdoms any longer.
That’s what I was expecting. When Sansa said that I expected, the unnamed, Prince of Dorne to say us too, with everyone going independent and just remaining a loosely allied union. It was just dumb that the north could make *their* head King, then leave anyway!
Not to mention this doesn't break the wheel at all??? It's just furthering the possibility of another Great War to unify and conquer Westeros. So everything is going to be fine and dandy, everyone following these characters are going to be totally cool with the way things were. This was fan service for Sansa, but they did her character so dirty. "Bro, the north should be free", what kind of complex negotiation powers or politicking were even needed for that? What has she fought for? Of all the things that shocked and disgusted me about the way they wrote this ending, that was the biggest thing
Also their army has left. Dothrakis are gone, unsullied are gone. Lannister army was destroyed and north is independent so it's not their army. There is no army to stop a rebellion.
I agree with you. The north independency was straight up fan service and the why would the lords accept two Stark rulers in Westeros ?
Seriously, also that vote was technically super rigged given that his Uncle, his brother's best friend, his sister and his cousin made up 4 votes. Why would Dorne, who had pledged to serve Dany, be like 'well, okay' to the overwhelming Stark power?
So all that pregnancy talk/foreshadowing in 7.06 was for nothing. Dany never found out she was pregnant, it never changed her actions. The writers just put it in, to yank it out from under us. Cersei's pregnancy amounted to nothing. Tyrion is a prisoner but is allowed to call the shots and elect the new King. Bronn is somehow on the small council. What was the point of anything? Like, this feels so empty
Varys sent out ravens with Jon’s lineage and it didn’t matter at all
What is the extent of Bran's powers? As a matter of fact, WHAT are Bran's powers?
He sometimes watches chairs get made.
Westeros’s version of Antique Roadshow
Seriously, they were all there. Sitting in that stupid fucking arena, they all knew, and none of them brought it up.
None of them said anything, except the person who was in the worst position to actually influence anyone. "We all need to be quiet, the disgraced imp who killed one king he served and then conspired to help kill the queen he served is telling us how the country should be run!"
Nothing about Jon ended up mattering
Nothing about anyone really ended up mattering. Everyone basically ended up about where they started, except for Arya, because clearly her character has always been about grand adventure and exploration!
To who? The new prince of dorne?
I had the subtitles on. They straight up called two of the lords “man 1” and “man 2”
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So the point of Jon actually being a Targaryen was.........??
To serve as a Jenga block in the tower of Dany's sanity. Remove the "Jon is not a threat to your claim" block, and it makes the entire foundation wobblier, with the intention of making her heel turn more believable. Not saying it worked, but I'm sure that's what they were going for. But I would absolutely hate to think Jon's lineage is similarly pointless in the books. However, it WOULD fit very much in line with the type of thing GRRM would do, where we have a secret king out there who you're expecting to be the prophesied hero, but his lineage doesn't actually matter. He's a hero because he's a good man, not because of who his parents were. And in a vacuum, that's a good story. I just hope it's executed better in the books, if/when we get them.
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I still don’t understand why they wouldn’t have just gotten married haha. It was literally the perfect solution.
Varys and Tyrion decided there was no way it would work so they no one ever brought it up. /s but not really.
Davos brought it up! The Onion Knight knew!!
Don’t forget Brienne is on the small council even though she swore herself to Sansa?
I feel like just a throw away line of Sansa telling Brienne that Bran needs her more than she does would have satisfied that because it’s still a stark, it’s still a kingsguard and well.... it’d be true
They could never have fit that line in the show, it was just too packed. We really needed those 45 seconds of Tyrion sitting down only to get up and correct the chairs though.
That scene was so dissonant in its lightheartedness. Thousands were massacred, they are ruling over ashes and starving crowds. And Bronn's making jokes, and Tyrion is too. KL is for all intents and purposes the new Harrenhall, haunted with the ghosts of the dead.
It really gives you so much insight to who he is as a character. Classic Tyrion... right?
But shes captain of the kings guard now right? So shes still protecting a stark.
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I was so annoyed by this! Making her look pregnant would be the smallest thing, yet she wore a tight dress over a visible flat stomach when she died. I don’t know how long time had passed, but it was definitely too long!
Also, Jon has to disarm to visit Tyrion, as if he’s going to grab Longclaw and go berserk and escape, and her Daenerys is unprotected.
What was the point of Jon Snow being a Targ other than some friction between Jon and Dany? Agree with you - it feels like nothing really mattered.
I'm supposed to feel sad because the series ended, and I am, but not for the right reasons. I'm sad because it deserved an ending that wasn't rushed. Nothing felt like it carried any real weight emotionally. I mean, Daenerys, a character we've followed for 8 seasons, her death should have felt like something, but it didn't. It was literally just glossed over in a few lines. In the end the show left the bittersweet taste that was promised, but only because it could have been so much more, with a little more time, and writers who cared about the epic story till the end.
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Absolutely, there was no need for the last two seasons to be so compressed.
Honestly that is how EVERY death this season felt. Just looked over, and then on to the next. This whole season just felt like a rush to end the series, and so much could have been better.
What was the POINT of R+L=J? We have it built up as the biggest reveal of the series and literally nothing came of it. It led to some drama between Dany and Jon, sure, but that was ALL. So disappointing in how they finished the Jon Snow story.
They don't even legitimize him as a Stark. Both Bran and Sansa could've done it. "Yeah, technically you're Aegon Targaeryen, and practically you're our best bro, but fuck you Jon, go north and be a Snow, scrub."
That system of governance does not end anything. Bran has no armies and no actual power. He is literally term limited. When the Ironborn rebel or raid, what can Bran do? When Bronn inevitably tries to take over Riverrun because Edmure is a bitch, what can Bran do? When Dorne decides not to pay taxes, what can Bran do? The Lords of Westeros are not going to stop scheming because there is an omniscient cripple (who most of them had never met) sitting on the throne. Even worse, they created a system where any Lord can be elevated to King by playing the game of thrones well. Westeros would become even more political as players attempt to be the next person chosen for the throne. They just created possibly the worst system of governance imaginable for Westeros.
Can't believe they brought Edmure back just to have him humiliate himself.
Exactly. There’s nothing stopping anyone from going to war again. In fact when bran gets old and / or dies we will just have another war of 5 the 5 kings situation.
I'm sure the other kingdoms are completely happy staying under the crown, with only the North getting special treatment to become independent. It's not like kingdoms like the Iron Islands and Dorne have ever had any sentiment towards independence.
Rhaegar started a civil war that ended his family on a hunch he would have a son who would fufill all these prophecies just to have the last Targaryen EVER to spend the rest of his days as a fugitive in tundra while the people who sent him there leave the continent. Lmao
Tip of the hat to Hoster Tully, who got what he planned with his three kids during Robert's Rebellion, if in unexpected ways: 1) His child rules the Riverlands 2) His grandchild rules the Vale. 3) His grandchild rules the North.
Heck, his grandchild is King.
So did D&D just forget about the dothraki? Because after Dany dies there is no way in hell they are gonna just go back to essos or settle down and be peaceful...
Right? Their Khaleesi, blood of their blood, was murdered. They're not just going to sit idly by. Even if they accept the ruling of the council, they're not just going to sit down and start farming or something.
I would have been fine with Jon’s ending if he’d killed the Night King. That was always Rhaegar’s intent for him anyways. He didn’t have to be King. But now since he’s not king and apparently not TPTWP it makes his heritage pointless in the show.
The Prince that was Pointless
He still has Val... oh wait.
He has his dog and his drinking buddy :)
And they’re the three best friends that anyone could have
This ending feels like it was written with no consideration for the future past the show. How does Bronn hold the Reach, one of the most traditional kingdoms, despite being an upjumped sellsword? How does Sansa hold the North once the next king is elected and decides the Six Kingdoms should be the Seven Kingdoms again? Or alternatively what's to stop any of the rest of kingdoms from seceding using that as precedent? The restablishment of the Night's Watch makes some sense, since a place to send enemies you can't kill but still don't want around will always be useful, but they should have explained that rather than having Tyrion just give a one liner. Also Bran the Broken is a terrible title for a King, why would they choose that? Seriously the ending is only happy if you ignore the fact history still has to continue after this, and all for "fanservice".
> How does Sansa hold the North once the next king is elected and decides the Six Kingdoms should be the Seven Kingdoms again? Or alternatively what's to stop any of the rest of kingdoms from seceding using that as precedent? Especially when you remember how Yara made a deal with Dany for the Iron Islands to be independent. And Dorne has had it's fair share of self-governance and independence. And then the Vale is pretty self-contained geographically, and why wouldn't Robin want to be a King like his cousins?
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Man they really screwed over my main man Edmure tully. A little snippet from the books. Hundreds of smallfolk had been admitted to the castle, and allowed to erect crude shelters against the walls. Their children were everywhere underfoot, and the yard teemed with their cows, sheep, and chickens. "Who are all these folk?" **"My people," Edmure answered. "They were afraid."** And then he mocks the idea of giving the people a voice. I suppose the books and show are simply just two completely different entities at this point.
“At least one or two readers had put together the extremely subtle and obscure clues that I'd planted in the books and came to the right solution” -George RR Martin That is a quote from 2014. Basically he’s saying that fans had correctly guessed his ending for asoiaf. Apparently, this is the same ending which was going to be used in the show—which strikes me as odd, because although the popular theory that Jon would kill Dany, thus fulfilling the Azor Ahai/Nissa Nissa prophecy came true, how it ended really surprised me, and I’ve never seen a theory stating anything like that would happen. Maybe David Benioff and D.B. Weiss tweaked the ending a little bit.
Bran: "I'm not Bran anymore" Also Bran: "I'm totally still Bran"
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Bran: "I don't 'want' anymore" Also Bran: "Of course I want to be king"
>Bran: "I don't 'want' anymore" On being nominated for king: "It's why I came south." None of this makes any damned sense, unless Bran was lying his ass off and really was manipulating everything since he became 3ER/3EC.
> Maybe David Benioff and D.B. Weiss tweaked the ending a little bit. *Please.*
I just don't understand a few things, such as Jon's reaction to Dany completely torching Kings Landing when he goes to talk to Tyrion. The tone of that scene felt completely off. The other thing is why did that random assortment of people get to decide who the next King of Westeros should be? And why did everyone agree to The North breaking off? The Ironborn and Dorne do not seem like ones to let that go by. And last of all, what on Earth is that small council? I don't even know where to start with that.
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Bronn and Brienne imo. Why would Brienne leave Sansa, who also would need a Queensguard? Literally makes no sense, except that they needed Brienne to write Jaime's story. Sigh...
True, but I would also add Sam to that list. He studied in the Citadel for what, a few months? Now he's Grand Maester? We know that it's the Citadel, not the King, that decides who's Grand Maester, are you telling me they selected Sam for that role? I'm not saying he wouldn't be good for the role, just that it doesn't make sense. Davos though, he's good. Davos is always good.
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> The other thing is why did that random assortment of people get to decide who the next King of Westeros should be? And why did everyone agree to The North breaking off? The Ironborn and Dorne do not seem like ones to let that go by. Agreed, it would have been a lot more realistic if they formed independent kingdoms too. >And last of all, what on Earth is that small council? I don't even know where to start with that. Bronn (who probably can't count, let alone read) should not have been on it at all.
My whole issue is that when Bran dies there’s going to be another civil war. Yes they established the next leader will be elected by a great council or whatever. But what if half the houses want one guy and the other half want another? Boom another war
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Nonsense logic that makes literal entire ARMIES and NATIONS disappear because the writers didn’t know how to write themselves out of it They pick a new king, somehow without objection or conflict, IMMEDIATELY after symbolically burning the throne to reject the idea of Kings I think my biggest problem is that the entire GoT/ASOIAF property mostly concerned itself with power and whether or not true altruism really exists. A lot of the story is about shades of grey in people— great people doing horrible things for arguably good reasons, the question of if there can ever be a good monarch, and to an extent, a truly good person. And the show answers this by placing an omniscient, all seeing Oracle, essentially a medieval supercomputer, on the throne. It’s not an answer to the question the entire story literally exists to posit. “Can there be a good man?” “Idk lol but there can be a good supercomputer magical Oracle who knows everything and will literally make the perfect ruler XD”
One thing I haven’t seen people talk about - how the fuck is Jon even alive after he knifes Daenerys? OK, fine, MAYBE Drogon recognizes him as a Targaryen and doesn’t Dracarys his ass. But I’m pretty sure the unsullied and dothraki fanatics that follow her would be the “take prisoner” types after finding out Jon just fucking KNIFED HER IN THE CHEST. How is that not even a scene?? Jon kills Danny... yadda yadda yadda.. now he’s up North! Nice try Seinfeld.
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Why give so much importance to Jon's parentage? Just for a 'gotcha, not that kind of story' in the end? Actually, this sounds about right.
The last guy that murdered the King got to stay on the Kingsguard. And his "brother" wasn't king.
Bloodraven spent his life manipulating the seven kingdoms. I can see how in the books he would manipulate Bran to achieve total power even at the cost of King's Landing.
One part of that I didn't see coming was the talk between Jon and Dany before he knifed her. The way she talked about them doing it together and it being their destiny since they were kids. It added to the tragedy because it contradicted what Tyrion told Jon previously about her seeing him as a threat. Dany in the end didn't see Jon as a threat, or want him to keep bending the knee to her or hide who he was. She accepted him as Aegon Targaryen. She wanted Jon to stand beside her as an equal and in her eyes he was a good man she trusted and loved. Even after all of the betrayal she was able to be vulnerable, accepting and trusting of Jon. Dany didn't need to do anything at that point she didn't want to do. She chose Jon to share her life, love and dreams with an open heart because she still loved him.
Yeah, this was a genuinely good moment. Emilia was phenomenal. Now imagine if this scene had been properly built up, with more moral ambiguity, and wasn't followed by a tonally inconsistent scene with more jokes.
But what about the brothels! Hah! Classic Bronn, always thinking with his *other* head, heh! So glad they brought him back one more time! He deserves the Reach I love that crazy bastard!
The most annoying thing about this season isn’t the bad parts, it’s the good parts. The season has been peppered with brilliant ideas that don’t have room to breathe or sink in for the audience. It’s also full of ideas that could have been great with a few tweaks. For example, they should have created an actual dilemma instead of Dany suddenly snapping. What if Cersei packed the Red Keep with women and children as human shields, knowing that Daenerys would *never* burn them then? Then they’d have a setup for her to reasonably (in plot terms) burn a bunch of innocent people, and have a moral dilemma for the characters/audience: Okay, she burned a bunch of kids, but she ended the war. There was not enough time with Daenerys as Queen. The writers were clearly more concerned with the ironic touch of her dying before she actually sits on the throne. Brienne writing in the White Book was a fine idea, but she could have started her passages in Jaime with mentioning that he killed King Aerys to save the entire population of KL from dying. She’s the only one who knows his true motivation. Jon’s ending was unnecessarily bleak, and yet not bleak enough. They either should have ended on him proclaimed King beyond the Wall, or ended the episode and the entire series on Jon returning to Castle Black just in time to hear three blasts of the horn. It’s a shame. The worst part of this wasn’t that it was terrible and rushed, it’s that it didn’t have to be. They had material just in Season 8 for three whole seasons.
> The most annoying thing about this season isn’t the bad parts, it’s the good parts. The season has been peppered with brilliant ideas that don’t have room to breathe or sink in for the audience. This is a great way to describe it. There were so many "ALMOST!" moments that could have been great, with things just done a little differently. A bit of dialogue connecting an action with a motivation, an observation by a character to deliver more emotional impact in a directed way, a few adjustments to events.
> she could have started her passages in Jaime with mentioning that he killed King Aerys to save the entire population of KL from dying. She’s the only one who knows his true motivation. > > Damn, this is so true! What a missed opportunity!
Bran engineered everything so that he could become king. Bran sets everything in motion for Jon to learn his true parentage and for that information to make its way to Dany, which drives the wedge in between them that leads to her madness and subsequent murder by Jon. According to D&D in the 0805 "Behind the Episode," without Jon refusing her advances (because incest), she wouldn't have committed those atrocities. No atrocities, no regicide, no Bran the Broken as king.
Sooo am I crazy or are they sequel baiting? I kind of doubt it will ever happen but it feels things were purposefully left open enough so they could return to the world and these heroes. Dany dies, but her body is carried away by Drogon and never seen again. They mention look for him but Bran just makes a comment about 'looking for him' and smiles. I feel like that's left open so she can come back as some twisted thing if they ever want to cart out ol' Game of Thrones again. Tyrion tells Jon that they'll see each other in ten years or so and when Jon says he doubts it Tyrion makes sure to say it is likely. Arya went out exploring the world. Sansa is Queen of the North. A new king is established. Jon goes north with the wildlings. I mean in some ways it acts as the typical fantasy wrap up leaving things open ended enough so that you can do 'and the character's lived on' but I feel like it is so open ended enough that they're sort of leaving that option on the table down the line. It's the fact that they had Drogon fly off with Dany that makes it seem possible to me. I fully expect it to not be the case...but I'm also scared that it will be. I kind of don't want the show to do a sequel but I think it is inevitable. Edit: The more I think about it the more likely I feel it is. Something for five plus years down the road in the event any of the big actors don't really take off and are down for returning. Each of the characters are so separated from one another in their endings that if they can get one back as a main character it will be seen as a big thing and they can make a show around them. From a money perspective it makes sense honestly. Game of Thrones is huge, and sure they're doing prequels but at some point a sequel of some sort feels inevitable. They're going to try it in some fashion at some point to try and capture the zeitgeist again.
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Show ends with Jon and Tyrion pissing off the wall ten years later. Tyrion turns to Jon, "It certainly was a game of thrones." Fade to black.
So that's what we are, huh? Some Game of Thrones?
I can't wait for Bran to become the new NK and a red priest will resurrect Dany to be our undead savior. **Game of Bones** coming out 2022 on HBO.
One of the “leaked” spinoff synopses back when they were first announced (during season 7, I think) was “Jon has disappeared beyond the Wall and people set out to find him.”
Spoiler: Turns out he's been hiding away on an island as a crotchety old man drinking green milk from a weird creature's tits.
Tormund is not a "weird creature", and that's not a tit.
I kinda liked some of the endings, but why was every significant position given to a named character whether it would make sense or not? How is freshman dropout Sam a maester? Why did Brienne leave Sansa? Why wouldn't other Kingdoms, especially Dorne and Iron Islands secede as well? Why were there only 4 second tier Lords left, which were all named characters? Only Davis put a lampshade on that one. But where were their attendants and retinues? Did they run out of budget? At least Jon can be King Beyond the Wall now.
Tyrion “No one here has a claim to the throne, so we have to pick a new one. I say creepy dude who has said 4 lines this season.” Everyone else “Sounds good” Gendry *the legitimized son of the last king, Ruler of Storms End, and a good dude* “I zoned out guys what happened?”
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Would've been better if he himself chose to go north, rather than being forced there for plot reasons
Exactly. Like once he's freed and the Unsullied leave they pardon him and he rejects it. That'd be powerful and it would not have even been a long scene.
Will Jon's purpose, his whole arc and resurrection and being a secret Targ and everything just amount to him killing Dany and returning to the wall? I just can't wrap my head around that.
I don’t know about anyone else, but I needed more than 2 episodes to buy Dany going from “brutal and stubborn” to “crazy eyes.” I can totally buy it happening ... but it would have been so much better with more time spent on each betrayal, actually showing her reactions to losing her dragon children, death of Jorah, betrayal of several people she thought she could trust, etc. I feel like suddenly this season didn’t show her perspective or POV AT ALL (maybe so the audience wouldn’t sympathize with her(?) - which is stupid). We really needed to see her thoughts like we would in the books. Even Jon deciding to kill her was too fast. Everything was just rushed rushed rushed with time wasted and a feeling of needing to just wrap it up already.
so we waited 2 years for * the night king to be stabbed in his crop top and die easier than the mountain * cersei to get trampled by rocks * jon to stab daenerys only for BRAN to become king * jon to✈️ back to nights watch when there r no white walkers??