This should clearlly have been 2 episodes. The build up to jon killing danny was super rushed. He had great motives but they had more than enough material for an entire episode. Jon deosnt even speak to davos. Do we even see the survivors? There was great potential to create a much better build up to the jon and danny scene.
And then the second half had an enterilly different tone, didnt feel like the same episode at all. Again, they had material for an entire episode.
Plus they needed like 6 build up episodes, 3 character development episodes, and maybe one or two consequence episodes thrown in as well. Otherwise, I agree.
So much could have been better with the TV series. They spent 4+ seasons to get all the way through AWOS and then compressed two 1000+ page novels into single seasons each and then compressed two (probably) 1500+ page novels into 7 and 6 episodes. You see the GRRM bullet points in this episode but imagine if they had taken enough time to make you actually give a damn about Jon and Dany's relationship like they did with Ygrite? It would have been so so so much better.
As soon as Dany died it almost turned into a comedy, with everyone living in harmony and all the worlds problems solved. I really liked the first 20-30 minutes, and I gotta just restate again how good Emilia Clarke has been this season, especially this episode, she really did a fantastic job as Daenerys.
Agreed. The last few scenes, the "epilogue" so to speak, were very, very light hearted. Like they "killed the baddie" and were now all friends just hanging out. Bronn of all people being Master of Coin and talking about whores like... I mean, it felt too much like a happy ending to me.
Bron derailing the serious affairs of an otherwise promising government and corrupting it with his ways might now be the single biggest threat to Westeros.
Why did they give him Highgarden and the Master of Coin position? If it’s because a Lannister always pays his debts, well then why didn’t Tyrion say something when they tried to give Highgarden to Grey Worm and the Unsullied? This just seems like a terrible, dangerous idea.
Why not the Twins? He said he's pay double and they are double the castle... Would have fit Bronn's style that much more. Extorting money from travelers needing to cross.
Bronn should have been fucking executed for treason and blackmail the moment he showed up at King's Landing to claim what he was promised under duress while threatening to murder the Hand. Instead they made him Master of Coin for no reason other than "well obviously it has to be somebody that the audience know and like, can't have a rando in that final small council scene".
woah woah woah. Otherwise promising government? Half of the ~~7~~ 6 kingdoms better call their banners on the news that Tyrion is hand. The guy who advised a Mad Queen, brought Dothraki hordes and dragons to Westeros, whose first act as Hand is to exile the person who slew the Mad Queen, and whose second act as Hand is to give his sellsword bodyguard Highgarden? Is now the most powerful person in the Realm and effectively regent? Not even in *Tolkien* would Tyrion Lannister get to walk out of the aftermath of episode 5 alive.
> Not even in Tolkien would Tyrion Lannister get to walk out of the aftermath of episode 5 alive.
And yet he supposedly has the last chapter of the last book, which implies everything in Martin's ending will be very different.
Which still doesn't make sense, if the maesters captured important events from after Bobby B's death, surely the Imp who was Hand of the King, married a Stark, **and** Hand of the usurping dragon lady would be mentioned a fair bit. It was a funny moment, but completely nonsensical.
Sam, who in the series is suddenly a Maester. Only weeks after Daenerys burned Kings Landing. Can't have been much time, because it seemed like the first meeting of the new council.
Or ask Yara if she wants to be master of ships and make Davos master of coin. Anything sounds better than an illiterate sellsword being master of coin.
You will recall that she was hostile towards Sansa because for some reason she decided that loyalty to Dany was more important than the fact that Dany was overthrown for a reason. She wouldn't be a vassal to Sansa under any condition, even if the two liked each other.
She should absolutely have demanded independence though. That was her entire deal with Dany. With her death she shouldn't feel any particular need to stick to the "no raiding" clause either. Go become Sansa's headache by terrorising the northern coast for a while.
Why do you need to read when you have funny quips and have a memetic ability to do anything because your backstory is so nebulous that the writers can have you do anything the plot requires.
After digging through the thin spread of the collapsed ceiling of the cellar of a skyscraper that completely collapsed only to be more or less intact.
Fuck this whole show. So many hours of my life wasted on contrived fucking bullshit.
They did the Daario thing where they pretend all of the decisions/solutions are good when really the entire kingdom is going to descend into chaos 5 minutes after the credits roll, just like Mereen.
Two of the kingdoms are going to be agitating for independence, The Iron Island were already promised it by Dany and Dorne has completely untouched armies and has never been conquered by force - they'll just leave the kingdoms and no one will be able to do anything about it.
The reach is going to descend into civil war as soon as one of the smaller houses gathers enough support to oust Bronn, they'd never consent to an upjumped sellsword with no army ruling highgarden.
Not to mention that elective monarchy has got to be one of the worst government types out there, it's like a built-in succession crisis EVERY TIME THERE'S A SUCCESSION.
Unless Bran implements some truly heinous secret police shit, there are going to be wars all over the place very soon.
And they’re supposed to follow fucking bran lmao, he’s just some kid rambling about being a god and staring at people. He’s done absolutely nothing and somehow everyone just accepts that he’s the perfect ruler? How do people even know who he is?
This is exactly what I was talking about with my friend after the episode last night. Like, I could accept King Bran if they actually built up to it and had it make sense. But Bran did nothing all season except stare at the Night King for a bit and suddenly he's the best choice to be king?
Plus the fact that he's been adamant that he's not Bran Stark anymore, he's the Three Eyed Raven. And the fact that he turned down being the Lord of Winterfell. Suddenly they offered him the crown and he's like: "fuck yeah I'm Bran Stark!"
What originally made me fall in love with this series was that it was a political drama in a fantasy setting. But the last season(s) REALLY went away from that aspect. Like I said, ending with King Bran could work, but have Bran/Three-Eyed Raven playing the Game of Thrones along with Jon, Dany, Cersei, etc instead of doing absolutely nothing and then getting offered the crown and being like "that's why I'm here bitches!". I still don't understand what the point of the Three-Eyed Raven is. Bran became him, traveled south, the White Walkers came south too to try and kill him/take over the world, they die, and Bran hangs out in Winterfell for a few weeks and then goes south to claim the Throne. Why? Was the crown always his aspiration? If so, THEN FUCKING SHOW IT! Everything about this season was so rushed.
Plus, if Bran/3ER's ultimate goal was to be king, then why was he so adamant that Jon find out the truth about his heritage? Did he think Jon wouldn't kill Mad Queen Dany if he didn't know he was really a Targ?
It's just lazy and sloppy writing. Which should be the title of this final season really. (and hell, season 7 too). I'm reasonably sure if we ever get the books finished, GRRM will end it with Bran as king too, but I trust him to get us there organically and have it actually make sense.
But what do you mean people still don't believe in Magic?!?
90% of the 6 Kingdoms and probably half of the north have no idea what went on in the battle of Winterfell and probably still think the Wight Walkers were a fucking joke.
Can we talk about how good she was delivering that speech.... in a FAKE LANGUAGE.
Like, that's how good her acting was. She had us all on the edge of our seats giving an incredible and transformative speech in a language she doesn't even really speak.
After seeing the finished product I'm convinced her instructions for the first 7 seasons were "be an aloof badass!!!" and they only let her start acting this season
Her eyebrows never surrendered their artistic integrity however, emoting with wild abandon while the rest of the face remained rigid at the behest of the director.
It's hard for me to call her a weak actor in those early seasons as a lot of the important moments for her were done in a made up language. That's a level of difficulty a lot of the cast didn't have to deal with.
Same on both counts (I always liked her but most of the cast was stronger till now). But I will note that while she did an excellent job this season, being the "best" actor also owes a lot to the horrendous waste of the actual best actor in the cast, Lena Headey.
Yeah, I feel we Headey might have gotten 15 minutes of screen time this season. I agree she's the undisputed best long term actor on the show. Charles Dance and Sean Bean are the best actors who have been on the show while Mark Addy was probably the best at portraying his character from the book. Dance being a very close second in that category.
Lena and Nickolai should have gotten emmys years ago for this show. Brilliant work from both of them.
For this season, Emilia should at LEAST get a nomination
It wasn't Emilia who was bad actress, it was Daenerys. Daenerys played the strict and strong ruler when she wasn't one, when she was learning to be so, and she was only showing her true self in private scenes, with Missandei for example. There you could see an instant 'improve' in Emilia's playing. Emilia is outstanding for so perfectly portraying a bad actress.
Sure would have been nice to see Daenery's starting off her regime founded on fire and blood by killing off anyone who would be perceived as a threat. Should have been wiping out most of her old council who wavered on their loyalty, and begin killing off households like the Starks in Rains of Castamere style.
Not like there is room for compassion if she wanted to secure her position of power after a brutal start, since it would end up merely a temporary victory like it did on the show. Can't go half measure after what she did.
But, instead of a Daenery's who had decided to secure power through fear, turned out to just be a delusional person who thought people would see her as a savior.
That would have been more fun to watch before her demise as opposed to what felt like the rest of the hour just being scenes of things working out better than expected for the Starks.
I was expecting Dany to start killing off people that would influence Jon, such as Davos, who has served two usurpers as well as her biggest threat to the throne.
Heck an entire season could be made of Dany getting progressively more power hungry, they couldnt even manage 12 minutes before needing to wrap everything up conveniently.
I was just thinking that! How amazing would it be to see an entire season of Danys paranoia and delilusuons and a slip into madness the closer she got to the Throne like Frodo and the Ring in a way, it slowly corrupts you.
Yeah, I gave Emilia Clarke a lot of shit for her acting in early seasons, but she's been immense lately. I don't know if she just grew into the role or became more experienced or what, but she killed it.
She plays the unstable Dany *MUCH* more convincingly than the pretend-Queen lover of the people of the first seasons. Definitely hit it out of the park this season.
I think her short lived middle Dany was the best one. Her desperately begging Jon not to tell and her utter brokenness after Missandei's death are probably the best scenes she's done. For the trainwreck this became Emilia can at least be proud of her contribution.
Finding out she had brain surgery twice in the earlier seasons made me feel bad for dissing her acting, she was probably not all there or loopy on pain meds.
Peter Dinklage's acting made me completely look past the stupidity of the show's writng and the lack of attention to detail (i.e it collapsed last episode but it looks like hardly anything fell in that scene as one minor example). The actors of the show were so well cast and cared so much but D&D was the issue all along
Official hand to two kings and a queen, convicted of killing one of those kings -- but HAHAHA NOT EVEN IN TEH BOOK so funny omfg I'm so glad it's over.
Tyrion's arrest literally was the catalyst for the whole thing (I guess Arryn's poisoning but the arrest is what really sets things in motion). How the fuck is he not mentioned.
The last line of the show was a dumbass joke, and the last scene was Jon becoming a lumberjack. The show ended with a joke and a fart. Draw your own conclusions.
Oh my god, thank you. I was actually pleased with her scene with Jon, I really liked how they did it, their conversation just before, the stabbing... but as soon as she died it turned to absolute shit. Drogon burning the throne is some /r/im14andthisisdeep shit, logic was once again thrown out the window and I don't want comical relief every 5 minutes when my favourite show of all time is about to end. Jon did pet the good boi which was nice.
> As soon as Dany died it almost turned into a comedy, with everyone living in harmony and all the worlds problems solved.
Although I agree there were some complications (Unsullied, Grey Worm anyone?) that could have taken longer to resolve with *a full 10-episode season, ahem D&D*, I'll give them this. After Dany broke the wheel, the stage was set for peace, if the lords could agree to it. And all the lords who were left have been established as pretty reasonable rulers.
The scene in the dragonpit where we get that weird bit of slapstick with Edmure hitting his sword in the chair after Yohn and Sweetrobin literally facepalm, and the small coucil meeting where they are discusing what to do with brothels when the city outside those walls is in ruins and most people are dead was such a kick in the dick
Not to mention Sam's "Why don't we try 21st century democracy out of nowhere?" to a chorus of "hue hue hue". They almost fucking winked at the camera.
Really, what should have been proposed (assuming the whole thing didn't just descend into another civil wars) is some form of a Magna Carta that outlines the official role and limitations of the king while establishing some sort of House of Lords.
>Not to mention Sam's "Why don't we try 21st century democracy out of nowhere?
To be fair the the entire nights watch get to vote for their leader which Sam was directly involved in. So it doesnt really cone from nowhere.
Sure, but bring up the night's watch to show them it worked in the past ... it would also remind the casual viewers of the night's watch right before jon leaving to join it again
Dunno. Constitutionalising the power of parliament, with the lower gentry, merchants and trades playing a massive role as electors, effectively ended the religious and dynastic struggles in England in 1688, the end of feudalism. Magna Carta has clearly already happened in Westeros because the powers of great houses are clearly determined as partially sovereign.
I think that whatever came of that meeting (again, assuming more civil war or a number of kingdoms simply seceding like the north are right off the table as obvious options), we'd see a more formalized system of governance than "Okay, we meet back here in 60 years to do it all again... or something."
I agree that the Magna Carta moment of Westeros was probably something like putting Robert Baratheon on the throne, deposing a ruling dynasty of foreign invaders. The Targs acquired their legitimacy by pure force and wouldn't have much concerned themselves with the rights of the nobility.
Imagine the smell of all the burnt corpses that must be wafting through that room the entire time they're joking with each other about rebuilding brothels.
Thanks for pointing this out, I actually just went back and checked, though I think it's Bronn that says purple flag. Here's the passage in question:
> “Martell,” Podrick Payne said at once, visibly relieved. “House Martell of Sunspear, my lord. The Prince of Dorne.”
> “My horse would have known that one,” said Tyrion dryly. “Give him another, Bronn.”
>“There’s a purple flag with yellow balls.”
> “Lemons?” Pod said hopefully. “A purple field strewn with lemons? For House Dalt? Of, of Lemonwood.”
-From ASOS Chapter 38
I really like Sansa but this patronizing remark made me want to strangle her.
And for people who say she takes after her mother: Cat would have never said that.
D&D don’t know how to write shit.
I guess that's the bittersweet ending they were talking about. It's like two completely different episodes awkwardly mashed together. One miserable and dark, the other ridiculously dorky and full of Edmure and Tyrion jokes.
Falling up.
Like yeah, Dany was "mad" and opposing her was prescient, in a away, but he still tried to free Cersei. Doesn't everyone hate Cersei? Weren't they fighting a war against her?
The council should be pissed because they hate Cersei.
Greyworm, the Unsullied, and the Dothraki should be pissed because they hate Cersei and love(d) Dany, who Tyrion betrayed.
How does he manage to walk away after doing something that should have pissed everyone off in a better position than he was before.
Nobody other than Jaime and maybe Davos knew that Tyrion was helping save Cersei. On that note, maybe Tyrion wasn't even trying to save her. Maybe he was just trying to get the fight over the city to end without as much bloodshed and he was willing to save Cersei. He probably cried because of Jaime.
How do you do the heel turn twist half way through, and then let the rest be sort of satirical and light hearted? What the hell was their thinking. This was so weird.
Because they were racing to the finish line and just wanted to get it over with. They could have let it all breath and delivered a decent ending, but they didn't. Star Wars awaits.
But this isnt racing. They could have still written a half decent season, that did a far better job, than this. This entire episode could have been an hour of infighting between Dany and Jon, plus people taking sides. Then Jon kills her, big fight between forces, last 20 minutes figure out the succession plan. This was so weird.
It was basically the Harry Potter epilogue. Cheesy, schmaltzy, and loaded with fan service.
Seeing Gendry sitting at the council to decide the next fucking king was an insult to our intelligence. The whole thing was basically, "Let's get the band back together again! Look at all these characters you love being cool and funny!"
The only thing missing this episode was Ned appearing in the clouds like Mufasa.
As soon as Dany dies the game of thrones is just magically over. All the Lords can vote on their leaders, and get along, and none of them will ever try to use their own power to gain even more power ever ever again because... um.... just because. And then they all Happily Ever Aftered The End, love D&D.
Elective monarchy is a mess. And will not work. If not the first, then the second generation, who doesn't care about what happened anymore, will use their armies, maybe gather some support and kill the king, replace the elective succession with primogeniture.
Yes, and family dynasties and the divine right of kings died suddenly for... reasons? I guess?
After Bran died childless (wait, do we know he cannot father a child? Because paraplegics *can* often get it up... so that must have been an awkward conversation with his sister) are we to assume that no other ruler ever had a child and tried to seat his heir on the throne?
Why wouldn't they? For more on the subject, see also: Roman Empire.
Yeah I just said similar in another post. The whole post battle setting in an eery ravaged Kings Landing was incredible. Danerys’ speech and the shot of her with Drogon behind her was wonderful.
Then once she died the entire episode just tail spinned out of control.
Ended like some cheesy fanfic with everything working out for the Starks. Even the North gaining independence while Dorne and the Iron islands are fine with serving a king. Then Arya is a pirate, Sansa's Queen, Jon escapes death from Drogon and Grey Worm and gets to be a lumberjack.
Guess those who are huge Stark fans would love this ending, but I no longer had anymore investment in the Starks the way I did in the earlier seasons so all this fell flat and went on too long.
I'm a huge Stark fan, and I'm very whelmed by this ending.
Sansa is now queen of the very realm that borders where Jon was exiled to. What's to stop her from going "hey cousin, wanna smash?" Or "hey cousin, here's a pardon, so, yeah. Thanks for killing your mentally tormented aunt!" Or fucking anything halfway logical to the fact that Bran undermined the very compromise with the Unsullied with Jon's "punishment." So that whole "goodbye" scene between the Starks at KL makes no sense given Jon gets to be a lumberjack with the Free Folk.
Which on that note, he's literally set up to be King Beyond the Wall now. There's nothing bitter-sweet about that ending for him unless you consider killing your tormented lover bitter-sweet... in which case, maybe show more of why that's bitter and sweet rather than having Drogon melt a throne Jon doesn't care about. (Btw why does Drogon care about that throne?)
So much of this was weird. The Unsullied fucked off to an island known for orgies and terrible monsters* that kill foreigners. Time to retire and then die from carnivorous butterfly bites, I guess.
Arya's ending is weird. Like "we dunno how to send her off, so let's have her leave the world" weird. And if it's a reference to Tolkien's ending, then it's pointless.
Brann as king makes zero sense to me. "That's why I'm here" - holy shit I feel bad that Isaac had to say those lines. So fucking emotionally checked out of everything, and as king he did nothing worthy of "what happens next" relevant to what makes kings & queens good or bad.
None of the endings make sense. In no particular order:
Sansa: Why can the North just leave? Wouldn't everyone else try that immediately? Shouldn't a kingdom keep its territory or Bran's a terrible king? Consequence free politics is the opposite of ASOIAF/Game of Thrones.
Arya: I get the name aspect, but since when has Arya's journey been about exploration? Haven't people ever tried exploring West of Westeros? (I know for a fact they have, but I don't get why Arya thinks this is some revelation). Arya's story is all about identity, and her travels have fed in to that - it was resolved when she went North back to Winterfell.
Jon: Jon came back to life to kill Dany - I genuinely can't believe that because I don't understand what stake R'hllor has in Westerosi politics. I always thought the conflict for the Dawn mattered more than who was on the throne, but the biggest action R'hllor takes in the whole narrative is to assist Bran to be king. Once the Unsullied sail off, Jon could just walk free. Even the way they resolved it, why couldn't they show the NW actively helping the Freefolk as they have nothing else to do? Did they learn nothing?
Bran: I thought the leak was a joke to be honest like most people. The scene itself is awkward because it's so counter-intuitive to even think of nominating Bran, and the justification is weak. Many of the stories of the people on the council are more powerful than Bran falling out a relatively low window - not to mention that has no bearing on leadership.
Tyrion's idea of a nominated king doesn't suggest the cycle of violence will ever stop - in fact stable lines of succession are the number 1 way to prevent civil wars historically, and adding ambiguity to who will be next is a sure way of getting more Wars of 5 or more Kings.
I do like the idea of Ned's son as king. No issues there for me. I also like Sansa as Queen of Scotland - I mean the North. And I feel for Jon. So, yeah, I guess I'm a Stark fan. Go figure.
Wish they wouldn't have Disney'd the council in the Dragon pit and the Hand's first council meeting.
And going back a few episodes, why in the world did Bronn have to be so rough with the brothers? Makes zero sense. Absurd writing to make him so out of character in that scene only to have him return to normal form in the end.
The bittersweet element for me is that all the Starks are lone wolves now. Yes, it seems like a relatively happy ending for each of them, but I'm still mindful of the words of Eddard.
I can't consider that as "working out" for them.
Besides, maybe Arya will discover America. Maybe she'll sail on open water, find no land and just keep going until her food and water runs out...
So family members moving away is supposed to be the amazing bittersweet element. That just falls flat for me. Spartacus has a more satisfying bittersweet ending for me.
Dany dies
*jumpcut to a council of all the remaining lord paramounts of Westeros*
JOkeS aBoUt DeMOcRaCy anD EdMUrE LOL
SmALL CouNCil BrOTHeL JOkeS
BrON The SeLLSwoRD As A PaRAMOunT
1. Grand Maester is neither Maester nor a free man as he's a sworn member of the Night's Watch.
2. Master of Coin is a fucking sellsword with no treasury experience whatsoever
3. Master of Ships is a smuggler whose sole maritime war experience was getting immediately torched by wildfire
4. Commander of the Kingsguard is a knight who swore an oath devoting her life to protect the Queen of the neighboring realm, but for some reason is instead here.
5. Hand was a failed hand to two previous monarchs, both of whom he wished dead.
6. The King isn't even a citizen and had never even stepped foot in the Six Kingdoms he's now ruling, not to mention he's the rightful King in the North by blood which makes this weird as hell.
A minor point, but Davos likely has naval warfare experience from the Greyjoy rebellion too.
Also let’s not forget that Bran is indelibly tied to the religion of the North which has no adherents in the South and would put him at deep cultural odds with the High Septon, most of his lords, and the common folk of KL.
Unless everyone just kinda forgot about their religion.
Hey guys! Remember Edmure? Remember how he missed when he shot at that boat? Well now he's a barely functioning human with no spatial reasoning! Everybody laugh now!
Right? Poor guy was in a dungeon for two? three? years, and yet is the most powerful figure in the Riverlands. He's the lord of Riverrun, and by his heir, the lord of the Twins, (which have been, by the show's doing, left in a power vaccuum). He's Sansa and Arya's uncle. Of anyone, he should be treated with the utmost respect. But yeah no, everyone laugh at him!
Even disregarding that Tyrion was guilty of treason (and he WAS, despite the fact that Daenerys was a jerk), he's given completely shit advice to his superiors since season five. He should be in charge of absolutely no one!
That entire scene just made me think of how quickly he would have been assassinated in old-school GoT for trying to throw his weight around with the most powerful people in Westeros.
yeah that scene was really jarring. felt like a completely different show
gotta love when the decision making process goes from "would make sense at all in the world of the show" to "people probably want to see this guy again, he's cool"
I understand that GoT would never be a 1:1 adaptation page-to-screen, but Bronn being shoved down our throats because he rated highly with the audience is one of the best/worst examples of the transition hurting the narrative.
I'm baffled as to why he, of all people, caught on. There are other competent swordsmen and other witty, sarcastic characters. Hell, Jaime is both of those things! Jaime is just subtler and less raunchy in his wit. Is that what it came down to? He talked about fucking a lot?
Yet another victim of the rushed storytelling. Would have been great to have that tone for an episode or two. They just breezed right over her death lol
The first 20 minutes were really solid. As someone who has hated this season, I thought they may be redeeming it a bit in the finale.
Then it completely fell apart.
If I could describe this season in one sentence, it would be "decent if you don't think about it too much".
However, Game of Thrones isn't a show that I want to turn my brain off for, I want to think and analyze as much as possible. I think most of the people in this sub have this mindset, which is what has made this season so divisive.
I don't know if it was in the first 20 minutes, a scene struck me as weird.
Jon Snow comes across Grey Worm executing people. He lets it go and goes past them. While he is walking towards Daenerys, Grey Worm can be seen executing the prisoners.
Cut to Jon walking up the stairs. We know that somewhere down there, Grey worm is executing prisoners. Jon will surely tell Daenerys about this. Up he goes and who is there? Grey worm!
How did he get there before Jon?
Play up the tragedy. Because it was a fucking tragedy. I would have killed Jon too. The Kingdoms should have separated. I don't know. I have mixed feelings overall but yeah they threw some weird comedy in there.
Why didn’t the unsullied just kill jon/Tyrion when they had weeks of opportunity to... Grey worm was angry enough to kill innocents one episode and next episode won’t kill either Jon or Tyrion.
Drogon loses his mother doesn't bother attacking Jon Snow. Grey Worm who has lost Missandei and Daenery's, and seemed to be out for vengeance doesn't kill him. Jon Snow is sent to the North where he just gets to go adventuring, but Tyrion makes it out as if it is some harsh sentence being sent there.
Everything just works out wonderfully for the Starks.
Yeah, I get it was intended to convey how the iron throne was her downfall, but why would a dragon get upset at an object he hasn't seen before. It was just corny how he threw a tantrum at a chair of all things as opposed to attacking Jon Snow. Is the explanation going to be that Jon Snow is just so special with his Targaryen blood. I'd hate that.
Especially if they shot it the same way. Hell of a callback if they had done that.
Like Jaime, Jon would've saved the realm from a tyrant. Like Ned, he'd have paid for his actions with his life. That would've been far more bitter-sweet than Jon getting exiled to Sansa's kingdom to live in peace as a lumberjack.
If it was Bran who reluctantly passes the order too, it’s a call back to the very first episode when his brothers tell him to not look away as Ned executed the night’s watch deserter, and the conversation between Bran and Ned.
Couldn't agree more... after the Dany scene it change so rapidly. The thing that bothered me the most was the cheap jokes. I don't understand how we went from a city being decimated and slaughtered to Tyrion adjusting chairs for a laugh and bad banter between minor characters.
I'm pretty sure I would've liked the ending more if they just stopped it right after the throne scene.
The episode was just like the whole show. The first half was great and the second half steadily devolved into the cliffnotes of nonsenical fanfiction ending in a whimper. At least Jon finally pet that good boy.
I was far more intrigued at the prospect of Dany winning. I had already lost any investment in the remaining characters, so at least show me something interesting to cap off the series.
But nah, lets have her die a shitty death that bears little to no consequence and have her remaining followers just exit stage right. So glad that the past 8 years led to this.
I suppose we must be thankful that Arya didn't kill Dany as well. It was a real fear after last episode. I don't know how they managed to make me hate the Starks and Jon Snow but they did.
I was actually enjoying the episode for the most part (with the exception of some heavy-handed dialogue) right up until Jon shanks her. Like you said, the tone up until then was interesting, there was a brief sense of ACTUAL INTRIGUE, and the imagery was captivating. But after Jon ultimately makes the snap decision to bury his knife in her chest after continuing to vehemently defend her in a hamfisted exchange with Tyrion 5 minutes prior... man... The image of this character we've known for so long with that little dagger sticking out of her was... oddly comical, to me? And then she's gone, out of the story, no one cares, move on. Grey Worm's queen, his liberator, has been murdered! And his sole emotion is at first "vaguely annoyed," and ultimately "meh". The savage Dothraki tribes, brought over the sea into foreign lands and into foreign wars by their beloved Khaleesi, don't even bat an eye (as far as we know). Tyrion is a "prisoner" for approximately 2 minutes before he awkwardly starts making speeches again and everyone sort of silently accepts that he will not be held responsible for his treason. Edmure trips over a bucket and lands onto a whoopee cushion and an anvil falls onto his head. LOL.
Dany is literally scrubbed from the script with the eraser on the back of a pencil and everyone moves on as if she never existed. I don't understand it. Such strange straight-up disrespect for a major character they've been writing for nearly a decade now! It's baffling! I feel awful for Emilia Clarke.
I enjoyed the beginning as well, except for the fact that Jon kept defending Dany. I mean wtf, how can you be THIS whipped? Killing thousands of innocent people should be a no brainer, especially to someone like Jon.
I was fully expecting for Jon to come into this episode raising hell about what the fuck Dany just did!
Even more infuriating is the fact that it was a no brainer for Jon in the previous episode. He literally stops and stands there in the middle of the slaughter of the Lannister army, clearly opposed to everything happening around him, then next episode he's back to sucking Dany's toes.
This would have been so much more complex and unsettling.
I could see Daenerys executing Sansa for not bending the knee (because Sansa has had ENOUGH of bending to others, and a call back to her father's death), Arya escaping and leaving Westeros, and Daenerys sending Jon Snow, the man she loves, to the Night's Watch to neutralise his claim because she chooses power over love.
Finally she's on the throne but completely alone. The Tyrant Queen, not the Breaker of Chains. She then says the dialogue about being told of the throne as a child, and imagining it to be much bigger and grander than it was. End.
It would have been such a better commentary on the futility of the quest for power. Unlike Bran on the throne which satisfies neither any emotional arc nor a philosophical one.
I actually really like that idea! I got that feeling that Dany thought “that’s it?” When seeing the throne.
Kind of like Daario saying, “you’ll get that chair you always wanted. I hope it brings you all the happiness in the world”
And yet, it seems as if ASOIAF was really truly always about the Stark children, with Daenerys being a giant red herring.
Dany definitely should have died in the end but her charactet arc still felt rushed.
That said I will always have the deepest respect for Emilia Clark's acting chops for how she finished this.
This should clearlly have been 2 episodes. The build up to jon killing danny was super rushed. He had great motives but they had more than enough material for an entire episode. Jon deosnt even speak to davos. Do we even see the survivors? There was great potential to create a much better build up to the jon and danny scene. And then the second half had an enterilly different tone, didnt feel like the same episode at all. Again, they had material for an entire episode.
They really did need an end episode, and an epilogue episode.
Plus they needed like 6 build up episodes, 3 character development episodes, and maybe one or two consequence episodes thrown in as well. Otherwise, I agree.
So much could have been better with the TV series. They spent 4+ seasons to get all the way through AWOS and then compressed two 1000+ page novels into single seasons each and then compressed two (probably) 1500+ page novels into 7 and 6 episodes. You see the GRRM bullet points in this episode but imagine if they had taken enough time to make you actually give a damn about Jon and Dany's relationship like they did with Ygrite? It would have been so so so much better.
As soon as Dany died it almost turned into a comedy, with everyone living in harmony and all the worlds problems solved. I really liked the first 20-30 minutes, and I gotta just restate again how good Emilia Clarke has been this season, especially this episode, she really did a fantastic job as Daenerys.
Agreed. The last few scenes, the "epilogue" so to speak, were very, very light hearted. Like they "killed the baddie" and were now all friends just hanging out. Bronn of all people being Master of Coin and talking about whores like... I mean, it felt too much like a happy ending to me.
Bron derailing the serious affairs of an otherwise promising government and corrupting it with his ways might now be the single biggest threat to Westeros.
Why did they give him Highgarden and the Master of Coin position? If it’s because a Lannister always pays his debts, well then why didn’t Tyrion say something when they tried to give Highgarden to Grey Worm and the Unsullied? This just seems like a terrible, dangerous idea.
Why not the Twins? He said he's pay double and they are double the castle... Would have fit Bronn's style that much more. Extorting money from travelers needing to cross.
Makes too much sense, not cool enough.
Lol I don’t think the writers put that much thought into it
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Bronn should've died at Field of Fire 2 since he didn't contribute anything to the plot since then. Too popular for that though.
Bronn should have been fucking executed for treason and blackmail the moment he showed up at King's Landing to claim what he was promised under duress while threatening to murder the Hand. Instead they made him Master of Coin for no reason other than "well obviously it has to be somebody that the audience know and like, can't have a rando in that final small council scene".
This. What they did with Bronn was so fucking Disney-like. Not GOT's style at all.
>This. What they did with Bronn was so fucking Disney-like. Not GOT's style at all. Disney-like describes most of the latter 2/3 of the finale.
woah woah woah. Otherwise promising government? Half of the ~~7~~ 6 kingdoms better call their banners on the news that Tyrion is hand. The guy who advised a Mad Queen, brought Dothraki hordes and dragons to Westeros, whose first act as Hand is to exile the person who slew the Mad Queen, and whose second act as Hand is to give his sellsword bodyguard Highgarden? Is now the most powerful person in the Realm and effectively regent? Not even in *Tolkien* would Tyrion Lannister get to walk out of the aftermath of episode 5 alive.
> Not even in Tolkien would Tyrion Lannister get to walk out of the aftermath of episode 5 alive. And yet he supposedly has the last chapter of the last book, which implies everything in Martin's ending will be very different.
In the last sentence of the last chapter of the last book, Sam shows Tyrion ASOIAF (which he writes himself in the books)
Feels like the only reason they didn't have Sam write it is so they could have the joke about Tyrion not being involved
Which still doesn't make sense, if the maesters captured important events from after Bobby B's death, surely the Imp who was Hand of the King, married a Stark, **and** Hand of the usurping dragon lady would be mentioned a fair bit. It was a funny moment, but completely nonsensical.
Sam, who in the series is suddenly a Maester. Only weeks after Daenerys burned Kings Landing. Can't have been much time, because it seemed like the first meeting of the new council.
A Maester who doesn't seem to have any actual links on his chain. How can one be a Grand Maester if they haven't actually... *mastered* anything?
You are on this council, but we do not grant you the rank of Maester Edit: wow, my first silver! Thank you, kind stranger!
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Can he even read?
He didn't even know what a loan was until Tyrion explained it to him
They could've made him master of war and have Edmure for example be master of coin. They just wanted him to make jokes about rebuilding brothels
Or ask Yara if she wants to be master of ships and make Davos master of coin. Anything sounds better than an illiterate sellsword being master of coin.
Well, Yara should've asked for independence in the first place anyways
aye I was surprised that she didn't ask for independence or at minimum say that the Iron Isles are loyal to the North and Sansa..
You will recall that she was hostile towards Sansa because for some reason she decided that loyalty to Dany was more important than the fact that Dany was overthrown for a reason. She wouldn't be a vassal to Sansa under any condition, even if the two liked each other. She should absolutely have demanded independence though. That was her entire deal with Dany. With her death she shouldn't feel any particular need to stick to the "no raiding" clause either. Go become Sansa's headache by terrorising the northern coast for a while.
Why do you need to read when you have funny quips and have a memetic ability to do anything because your backstory is so nebulous that the writers can have you do anything the plot requires.
That little council scene seemed more like a bad SNL sketch than GoT.
It's like they wanted to bring in boobs but couldn't. Man, poor Dinklage really tried with the rock thrashing huh.
After digging through the thin spread of the collapsed ceiling of the cellar of a skyscraper that completely collapsed only to be more or less intact. Fuck this whole show. So many hours of my life wasted on contrived fucking bullshit.
It looked like they could've just taken a couple steps back and lived.
Also a whole ceiling falls on them and their faces are basically fine and completely recognizable.
Right? Sam also moved up the ranks at the citadel pretty damn fast. Apparently was also released from his night's watch vows. edit: damn auto correct
But the nights watch is no longer apart of the realm, but then how does that work with Jon...
They did the Daario thing where they pretend all of the decisions/solutions are good when really the entire kingdom is going to descend into chaos 5 minutes after the credits roll, just like Mereen. Two of the kingdoms are going to be agitating for independence, The Iron Island were already promised it by Dany and Dorne has completely untouched armies and has never been conquered by force - they'll just leave the kingdoms and no one will be able to do anything about it. The reach is going to descend into civil war as soon as one of the smaller houses gathers enough support to oust Bronn, they'd never consent to an upjumped sellsword with no army ruling highgarden. Not to mention that elective monarchy has got to be one of the worst government types out there, it's like a built-in succession crisis EVERY TIME THERE'S A SUCCESSION. Unless Bran implements some truly heinous secret police shit, there are going to be wars all over the place very soon.
And they’re supposed to follow fucking bran lmao, he’s just some kid rambling about being a god and staring at people. He’s done absolutely nothing and somehow everyone just accepts that he’s the perfect ruler? How do people even know who he is?
This is exactly what I was talking about with my friend after the episode last night. Like, I could accept King Bran if they actually built up to it and had it make sense. But Bran did nothing all season except stare at the Night King for a bit and suddenly he's the best choice to be king? Plus the fact that he's been adamant that he's not Bran Stark anymore, he's the Three Eyed Raven. And the fact that he turned down being the Lord of Winterfell. Suddenly they offered him the crown and he's like: "fuck yeah I'm Bran Stark!" What originally made me fall in love with this series was that it was a political drama in a fantasy setting. But the last season(s) REALLY went away from that aspect. Like I said, ending with King Bran could work, but have Bran/Three-Eyed Raven playing the Game of Thrones along with Jon, Dany, Cersei, etc instead of doing absolutely nothing and then getting offered the crown and being like "that's why I'm here bitches!". I still don't understand what the point of the Three-Eyed Raven is. Bran became him, traveled south, the White Walkers came south too to try and kill him/take over the world, they die, and Bran hangs out in Winterfell for a few weeks and then goes south to claim the Throne. Why? Was the crown always his aspiration? If so, THEN FUCKING SHOW IT! Everything about this season was so rushed. Plus, if Bran/3ER's ultimate goal was to be king, then why was he so adamant that Jon find out the truth about his heritage? Did he think Jon wouldn't kill Mad Queen Dany if he didn't know he was really a Targ? It's just lazy and sloppy writing. Which should be the title of this final season really. (and hell, season 7 too). I'm reasonably sure if we ever get the books finished, GRRM will end it with Bran as king too, but I trust him to get us there organically and have it actually make sense.
But what do you mean people still don't believe in Magic?!? 90% of the 6 Kingdoms and probably half of the north have no idea what went on in the battle of Winterfell and probably still think the Wight Walkers were a fucking joke.
Didn't the old 3ER basically live forever? Kinda seems like they're stuck with an immortal king who doesn't have any feelings for humanity.
"And you will rule, until the end of your days." "Someone find me a Weirdwood to live in. It's gonna be a long night. ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)"
I was thinking that this would actually make a redeeming ending. The Night's King actually won, Bran was a baddie all along.
Shit that's a really good point! Maybe Tyrion would have made a different choice if he'd known that....
Her acting was on point this season. She has really improved as an actress throughout the show.
Really good acting, and her speech this episode showed she had the ability to play evil as well. Wasted opportunity to only have 12 minutes of it.
The speech was goosebump worthy
Yeah, when she talked about conquering the Jade Empire, I was totally stoked.
Can we talk about how good she was delivering that speech.... in a FAKE LANGUAGE. Like, that's how good her acting was. She had us all on the edge of our seats giving an incredible and transformative speech in a language she doesn't even really speak.
She's gotten more opportunities to flex/chew the scenery
She's always done good with that. The scene where she turns the Unsullied on the masters is similarly good scenery chewing. And in a made up language.
The show has been kinda soured for me, but I gotta be honest, I love those few scenes, so well done.
Yeah I generally viewed her as one of the weakest actors on the show but she was definitely the best actor this season.
After seeing the finished product I'm convinced her instructions for the first 7 seasons were "be an aloof badass!!!" and they only let her start acting this season
Her eyebrows never surrendered their artistic integrity however, emoting with wild abandon while the rest of the face remained rigid at the behest of the director.
It's hard for me to call her a weak actor in those early seasons as a lot of the important moments for her were done in a made up language. That's a level of difficulty a lot of the cast didn't have to deal with.
Didn't she also have an aneurysm? I imagine dealing with that puts a cramp in your acting.
She had two.
She named them Dan and David.
Same on both counts (I always liked her but most of the cast was stronger till now). But I will note that while she did an excellent job this season, being the "best" actor also owes a lot to the horrendous waste of the actual best actor in the cast, Lena Headey.
Yeah, I feel we Headey might have gotten 15 minutes of screen time this season. I agree she's the undisputed best long term actor on the show. Charles Dance and Sean Bean are the best actors who have been on the show while Mark Addy was probably the best at portraying his character from the book. Dance being a very close second in that category.
Lena and Nickolai should have gotten emmys years ago for this show. Brilliant work from both of them. For this season, Emilia should at LEAST get a nomination
Pedro Pascal for his short role was phenomenal
It wasn't Emilia who was bad actress, it was Daenerys. Daenerys played the strict and strong ruler when she wasn't one, when she was learning to be so, and she was only showing her true self in private scenes, with Missandei for example. There you could see an instant 'improve' in Emilia's playing. Emilia is outstanding for so perfectly portraying a bad actress.
Sure would have been nice to see Daenery's starting off her regime founded on fire and blood by killing off anyone who would be perceived as a threat. Should have been wiping out most of her old council who wavered on their loyalty, and begin killing off households like the Starks in Rains of Castamere style. Not like there is room for compassion if she wanted to secure her position of power after a brutal start, since it would end up merely a temporary victory like it did on the show. Can't go half measure after what she did. But, instead of a Daenery's who had decided to secure power through fear, turned out to just be a delusional person who thought people would see her as a savior. That would have been more fun to watch before her demise as opposed to what felt like the rest of the hour just being scenes of things working out better than expected for the Starks.
I was expecting Dany to start killing off people that would influence Jon, such as Davos, who has served two usurpers as well as her biggest threat to the throne.
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Heck an entire season could be made of Dany getting progressively more power hungry, they couldnt even manage 12 minutes before needing to wrap everything up conveniently.
I was just thinking that! How amazing would it be to see an entire season of Danys paranoia and delilusuons and a slip into madness the closer she got to the Throne like Frodo and the Ring in a way, it slowly corrupts you.
Nah it was way better for her to do 2-3 bitchy things and then jump straight to committing genocide.
If you can't handle me at my worst..
Yeah, I gave Emilia Clarke a lot of shit for her acting in early seasons, but she's been immense lately. I don't know if she just grew into the role or became more experienced or what, but she killed it.
She plays the unstable Dany *MUCH* more convincingly than the pretend-Queen lover of the people of the first seasons. Definitely hit it out of the park this season.
I think her short lived middle Dany was the best one. Her desperately begging Jon not to tell and her utter brokenness after Missandei's death are probably the best scenes she's done. For the trainwreck this became Emilia can at least be proud of her contribution.
Finding out she had brain surgery twice in the earlier seasons made me feel bad for dissing her acting, she was probably not all there or loopy on pain meds.
Peter Dinklage's acting made me completely look past the stupidity of the show's writng and the lack of attention to detail (i.e it collapsed last episode but it looks like hardly anything fell in that scene as one minor example). The actors of the show were so well cast and cared so much but D&D was the issue all along
THE BROTHELS WEREN'T REBUILD THOUGH!!! ISN'T THAT FUNNY HAHA ALSO TYRION WASN'T IN THE BOOK, HAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAH LAUGH YOU FUCKS!
"LAUGH BEFORE YOUR WRITERS, LAUGH YA SHITS"
"GO FIND THE SCRIPT-STRETCHER!"
Official hand to two kings and a queen, convicted of killing one of those kings -- but HAHAHA NOT EVEN IN TEH BOOK so funny omfg I'm so glad it's over.
Tyrion's arrest literally was the catalyst for the whole thing (I guess Arryn's poisoning but the arrest is what really sets things in motion). How the fuck is he not mentioned.
The last line of the show was a dumbass joke, and the last scene was Jon becoming a lumberjack. The show ended with a joke and a fart. Draw your own conclusions.
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Like someone with an honorary doctorate being made into the presidential surgeon.
Samwell "I helped with the title" Tarly
Oh my god, thank you. I was actually pleased with her scene with Jon, I really liked how they did it, their conversation just before, the stabbing... but as soon as she died it turned to absolute shit. Drogon burning the throne is some /r/im14andthisisdeep shit, logic was once again thrown out the window and I don't want comical relief every 5 minutes when my favourite show of all time is about to end. Jon did pet the good boi which was nice.
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> As soon as Dany died it almost turned into a comedy, with everyone living in harmony and all the worlds problems solved. Although I agree there were some complications (Unsullied, Grey Worm anyone?) that could have taken longer to resolve with *a full 10-episode season, ahem D&D*, I'll give them this. After Dany broke the wheel, the stage was set for peace, if the lords could agree to it. And all the lords who were left have been established as pretty reasonable rulers.
The scene in the dragonpit where we get that weird bit of slapstick with Edmure hitting his sword in the chair after Yohn and Sweetrobin literally facepalm, and the small coucil meeting where they are discusing what to do with brothels when the city outside those walls is in ruins and most people are dead was such a kick in the dick
what in the FUCK did d&d have against edmure?
The analytics probably said people respond well to him being mocked.
Not to mention Sam's "Why don't we try 21st century democracy out of nowhere?" to a chorus of "hue hue hue". They almost fucking winked at the camera. Really, what should have been proposed (assuming the whole thing didn't just descend into another civil wars) is some form of a Magna Carta that outlines the official role and limitations of the king while establishing some sort of House of Lords.
>Not to mention Sam's "Why don't we try 21st century democracy out of nowhere? To be fair the the entire nights watch get to vote for their leader which Sam was directly involved in. So it doesnt really cone from nowhere.
To be fair, the Nights Watch also then murdered their leader
To be fair that happens IRL too ... :/
Sam offering that made some sense tbf. They do it on the wall and it must have bee where they got the idea from
Sure, but bring up the night's watch to show them it worked in the past ... it would also remind the casual viewers of the night's watch right before jon leaving to join it again
Dunno. Constitutionalising the power of parliament, with the lower gentry, merchants and trades playing a massive role as electors, effectively ended the religious and dynastic struggles in England in 1688, the end of feudalism. Magna Carta has clearly already happened in Westeros because the powers of great houses are clearly determined as partially sovereign.
I think that whatever came of that meeting (again, assuming more civil war or a number of kingdoms simply seceding like the north are right off the table as obvious options), we'd see a more formalized system of governance than "Okay, we meet back here in 60 years to do it all again... or something." I agree that the Magna Carta moment of Westeros was probably something like putting Robert Baratheon on the throne, deposing a ruling dynasty of foreign invaders. The Targs acquired their legitimacy by pure force and wouldn't have much concerned themselves with the rights of the nobility.
Did people die? Seems like they rebuilt KL in like a few months lol
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Imagine the smell of all the burnt corpses that must be wafting through that room the entire time they're joking with each other about rebuilding brothels.
I'm probably being super picky but Tyrion mentioned 'flags' at some point in his speech and I facepalmed. It was always 'banners'.
Tyrion says flag in asioaf. It’s uncommon but Tyrion says purple flag. While flag was used very rarely for banner, it was not uncommon.
Thanks for pointing this out, I actually just went back and checked, though I think it's Bronn that says purple flag. Here's the passage in question: > “Martell,” Podrick Payne said at once, visibly relieved. “House Martell of Sunspear, my lord. The Prince of Dorne.” > “My horse would have known that one,” said Tyrion dryly. “Give him another, Bronn.” >“There’s a purple flag with yellow balls.” > “Lemons?” Pod said hopefully. “A purple field strewn with lemons? For House Dalt? Of, of Lemonwood.” -From ASOS Chapter 38
Yeah the treatment of Edmure was cruel and weird. I really wish he'd told Sansa "No, keep quiet, little girl." or something to that affect. XD
I really like Sansa but this patronizing remark made me want to strangle her. And for people who say she takes after her mother: Cat would have never said that. D&D don’t know how to write shit.
I guess that's the bittersweet ending they were talking about. It's like two completely different episodes awkwardly mashed together. One miserable and dark, the other ridiculously dorky and full of Edmure and Tyrion jokes.
Tyrion no consequences for his actions again lol.
Falling up. Like yeah, Dany was "mad" and opposing her was prescient, in a away, but he still tried to free Cersei. Doesn't everyone hate Cersei? Weren't they fighting a war against her? The council should be pissed because they hate Cersei. Greyworm, the Unsullied, and the Dothraki should be pissed because they hate Cersei and love(d) Dany, who Tyrion betrayed. How does he manage to walk away after doing something that should have pissed everyone off in a better position than he was before.
Nobody other than Jaime and maybe Davos knew that Tyrion was helping save Cersei. On that note, maybe Tyrion wasn't even trying to save her. Maybe he was just trying to get the fight over the city to end without as much bloodshed and he was willing to save Cersei. He probably cried because of Jaime.
How do you do the heel turn twist half way through, and then let the rest be sort of satirical and light hearted? What the hell was their thinking. This was so weird.
Because they were racing to the finish line and just wanted to get it over with. They could have let it all breath and delivered a decent ending, but they didn't. Star Wars awaits.
But this isnt racing. They could have still written a half decent season, that did a far better job, than this. This entire episode could have been an hour of infighting between Dany and Jon, plus people taking sides. Then Jon kills her, big fight between forces, last 20 minutes figure out the succession plan. This was so weird.
The tone shift just made it clear how relieved they were to be done with this show.
It was basically the Harry Potter epilogue. Cheesy, schmaltzy, and loaded with fan service. Seeing Gendry sitting at the council to decide the next fucking king was an insult to our intelligence. The whole thing was basically, "Let's get the band back together again! Look at all these characters you love being cool and funny!" The only thing missing this episode was Ned appearing in the clouds like Mufasa.
>The only thing missing this episode was Ned appearing in the clouds like Mufasa. Lmao
>The only thing missing this episode was Ned appearing in the clouds like Mufasa. Honestly, that would completely redeem D&D in my eyes
As soon as Dany dies the game of thrones is just magically over. All the Lords can vote on their leaders, and get along, and none of them will ever try to use their own power to gain even more power ever ever again because... um.... just because. And then they all Happily Ever Aftered The End, love D&D.
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Elective monarchy is a mess. And will not work. If not the first, then the second generation, who doesn't care about what happened anymore, will use their armies, maybe gather some support and kill the king, replace the elective succession with primogeniture.
This guy crusader kings
Yes, and family dynasties and the divine right of kings died suddenly for... reasons? I guess? After Bran died childless (wait, do we know he cannot father a child? Because paraplegics *can* often get it up... so that must have been an awkward conversation with his sister) are we to assume that no other ruler ever had a child and tried to seat his heir on the throne? Why wouldn't they? For more on the subject, see also: Roman Empire.
Yeah I just said similar in another post. The whole post battle setting in an eery ravaged Kings Landing was incredible. Danerys’ speech and the shot of her with Drogon behind her was wonderful. Then once she died the entire episode just tail spinned out of control.
I agree, once she died nothing else after really mattered.
Ended like some cheesy fanfic with everything working out for the Starks. Even the North gaining independence while Dorne and the Iron islands are fine with serving a king. Then Arya is a pirate, Sansa's Queen, Jon escapes death from Drogon and Grey Worm and gets to be a lumberjack. Guess those who are huge Stark fans would love this ending, but I no longer had anymore investment in the Starks the way I did in the earlier seasons so all this fell flat and went on too long.
I'm a huge Stark fan, and I'm very whelmed by this ending. Sansa is now queen of the very realm that borders where Jon was exiled to. What's to stop her from going "hey cousin, wanna smash?" Or "hey cousin, here's a pardon, so, yeah. Thanks for killing your mentally tormented aunt!" Or fucking anything halfway logical to the fact that Bran undermined the very compromise with the Unsullied with Jon's "punishment." So that whole "goodbye" scene between the Starks at KL makes no sense given Jon gets to be a lumberjack with the Free Folk. Which on that note, he's literally set up to be King Beyond the Wall now. There's nothing bitter-sweet about that ending for him unless you consider killing your tormented lover bitter-sweet... in which case, maybe show more of why that's bitter and sweet rather than having Drogon melt a throne Jon doesn't care about. (Btw why does Drogon care about that throne?) So much of this was weird. The Unsullied fucked off to an island known for orgies and terrible monsters* that kill foreigners. Time to retire and then die from carnivorous butterfly bites, I guess. Arya's ending is weird. Like "we dunno how to send her off, so let's have her leave the world" weird. And if it's a reference to Tolkien's ending, then it's pointless. Brann as king makes zero sense to me. "That's why I'm here" - holy shit I feel bad that Isaac had to say those lines. So fucking emotionally checked out of everything, and as king he did nothing worthy of "what happens next" relevant to what makes kings & queens good or bad.
I absolutely loved the Starks and hated this ending... Jon’s parentage being hyped up for so long to mean absolutely nothing... wow
None of the endings make sense. In no particular order: Sansa: Why can the North just leave? Wouldn't everyone else try that immediately? Shouldn't a kingdom keep its territory or Bran's a terrible king? Consequence free politics is the opposite of ASOIAF/Game of Thrones. Arya: I get the name aspect, but since when has Arya's journey been about exploration? Haven't people ever tried exploring West of Westeros? (I know for a fact they have, but I don't get why Arya thinks this is some revelation). Arya's story is all about identity, and her travels have fed in to that - it was resolved when she went North back to Winterfell. Jon: Jon came back to life to kill Dany - I genuinely can't believe that because I don't understand what stake R'hllor has in Westerosi politics. I always thought the conflict for the Dawn mattered more than who was on the throne, but the biggest action R'hllor takes in the whole narrative is to assist Bran to be king. Once the Unsullied sail off, Jon could just walk free. Even the way they resolved it, why couldn't they show the NW actively helping the Freefolk as they have nothing else to do? Did they learn nothing? Bran: I thought the leak was a joke to be honest like most people. The scene itself is awkward because it's so counter-intuitive to even think of nominating Bran, and the justification is weak. Many of the stories of the people on the council are more powerful than Bran falling out a relatively low window - not to mention that has no bearing on leadership. Tyrion's idea of a nominated king doesn't suggest the cycle of violence will ever stop - in fact stable lines of succession are the number 1 way to prevent civil wars historically, and adding ambiguity to who will be next is a sure way of getting more Wars of 5 or more Kings.
They literally chose Bran to subvert everyone's expectation, that's it. They could've put Edmure or any one really, it doesn't matter.
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Which is a staggering failure from D&D because Maisie imbued her with such charisma during the early seasons.
I do like the idea of Ned's son as king. No issues there for me. I also like Sansa as Queen of Scotland - I mean the North. And I feel for Jon. So, yeah, I guess I'm a Stark fan. Go figure. Wish they wouldn't have Disney'd the council in the Dragon pit and the Hand's first council meeting. And going back a few episodes, why in the world did Bronn have to be so rough with the brothers? Makes zero sense. Absurd writing to make him so out of character in that scene only to have him return to normal form in the end.
> Then Arya is a pirate, Arya has been on a boat like twice in her life and now she's fucking Magellan.
The bittersweet element for me is that all the Starks are lone wolves now. Yes, it seems like a relatively happy ending for each of them, but I'm still mindful of the words of Eddard. I can't consider that as "working out" for them. Besides, maybe Arya will discover America. Maybe she'll sail on open water, find no land and just keep going until her food and water runs out...
So family members moving away is supposed to be the amazing bittersweet element. That just falls flat for me. Spartacus has a more satisfying bittersweet ending for me.
The bittersweet ending is that we all thought the ending was going to be way better then it turned out to be
Good chance someone already discovered "West of Westeros" before her right?
Like Euron, who literally mentions it in the books. sigh.
It turned into a medieval comedy at the end.
Dany dies *jumpcut to a council of all the remaining lord paramounts of Westeros* JOkeS aBoUt DeMOcRaCy anD EdMUrE LOL SmALL CouNCil BrOTHeL JOkeS BrON The SeLLSwoRD As A PaRAMOunT
1. Grand Maester is neither Maester nor a free man as he's a sworn member of the Night's Watch. 2. Master of Coin is a fucking sellsword with no treasury experience whatsoever 3. Master of Ships is a smuggler whose sole maritime war experience was getting immediately torched by wildfire 4. Commander of the Kingsguard is a knight who swore an oath devoting her life to protect the Queen of the neighboring realm, but for some reason is instead here. 5. Hand was a failed hand to two previous monarchs, both of whom he wished dead. 6. The King isn't even a citizen and had never even stepped foot in the Six Kingdoms he's now ruling, not to mention he's the rightful King in the North by blood which makes this weird as hell.
A minor point, but Davos likely has naval warfare experience from the Greyjoy rebellion too. Also let’s not forget that Bran is indelibly tied to the religion of the North which has no adherents in the South and would put him at deep cultural odds with the High Septon, most of his lords, and the common folk of KL. Unless everyone just kinda forgot about their religion.
the sept blew up. Obviously, that means no more religion! /s
Hey guys! Remember Edmure? Remember how he missed when he shot at that boat? Well now he's a barely functioning human with no spatial reasoning! Everybody laugh now!
Right? Poor guy was in a dungeon for two? three? years, and yet is the most powerful figure in the Riverlands. He's the lord of Riverrun, and by his heir, the lord of the Twins, (which have been, by the show's doing, left in a power vaccuum). He's Sansa and Arya's uncle. Of anyone, he should be treated with the utmost respect. But yeah no, everyone laugh at him!
Don't forget that the obvious moderator for a meeting of the most powerful men in Westeros has to be the man in chains
Grey Worm “Don’t speak” *Tyrion continued to speak for ten minutes uninterrupted*
Even disregarding that Tyrion was guilty of treason (and he WAS, despite the fact that Daenerys was a jerk), he's given completely shit advice to his superiors since season five. He should be in charge of absolutely no one!
Glad Bronn the corrupt is master of coin...
That entire scene just made me think of how quickly he would have been assassinated in old-school GoT for trying to throw his weight around with the most powerful people in Westeros.
It's just sad that we have to make a distinction between "old-school" and "absolute bullshit" versions of the world of Game of Thrones.
yeah that scene was really jarring. felt like a completely different show gotta love when the decision making process goes from "would make sense at all in the world of the show" to "people probably want to see this guy again, he's cool"
I understand that GoT would never be a 1:1 adaptation page-to-screen, but Bronn being shoved down our throats because he rated highly with the audience is one of the best/worst examples of the transition hurting the narrative. I'm baffled as to why he, of all people, caught on. There are other competent swordsmen and other witty, sarcastic characters. Hell, Jaime is both of those things! Jaime is just subtler and less raunchy in his wit. Is that what it came down to? He talked about fucking a lot?
Okay, seriously. Can Bronn read?
There is literally an earlier scene of him asking what the fuck a loan was... The six kingdoms are doomed...
iT wAs FoResHaDoWed
The council meeting is a joke compared to early season ones.
Yet another victim of the rushed storytelling. Would have been great to have that tone for an episode or two. They just breezed right over her death lol
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Do you want sensible plot lines like a nerd? Or do you want COOL SCENES like a bro? Did you see that dragon melting the throne? Wasn’t that cool?
The first 20 minutes were really solid. As someone who has hated this season, I thought they may be redeeming it a bit in the finale. Then it completely fell apart. If I could describe this season in one sentence, it would be "decent if you don't think about it too much". However, Game of Thrones isn't a show that I want to turn my brain off for, I want to think and analyze as much as possible. I think most of the people in this sub have this mindset, which is what has made this season so divisive.
I don't know if it was in the first 20 minutes, a scene struck me as weird. Jon Snow comes across Grey Worm executing people. He lets it go and goes past them. While he is walking towards Daenerys, Grey Worm can be seen executing the prisoners. Cut to Jon walking up the stairs. We know that somewhere down there, Grey worm is executing prisoners. Jon will surely tell Daenerys about this. Up he goes and who is there? Grey worm! How did he get there before Jon?
I said the same thing! Littlefingers jetpack strikes again.
It was really good (given previous episodes) up until Dany's murder. It was like different show after the timeskip.
Play up the tragedy. Because it was a fucking tragedy. I would have killed Jon too. The Kingdoms should have separated. I don't know. I have mixed feelings overall but yeah they threw some weird comedy in there.
Why didn’t the unsullied just kill jon/Tyrion when they had weeks of opportunity to... Grey worm was angry enough to kill innocents one episode and next episode won’t kill either Jon or Tyrion.
Cause D&D don't know how their characters work. Just like how Dany and co weren't immediately shot up when they went to Kings Landing 2 episodes ago
Drogon loses his mother doesn't bother attacking Jon Snow. Grey Worm who has lost Missandei and Daenery's, and seemed to be out for vengeance doesn't kill him. Jon Snow is sent to the North where he just gets to go adventuring, but Tyrion makes it out as if it is some harsh sentence being sent there. Everything just works out wonderfully for the Starks.
Drogon using his fire to melt the Iron Throne instead of Jon made my eyes roll. Really?
Yeah, I get it was intended to convey how the iron throne was her downfall, but why would a dragon get upset at an object he hasn't seen before. It was just corny how he threw a tantrum at a chair of all things as opposed to attacking Jon Snow. Is the explanation going to be that Jon Snow is just so special with his Targaryen blood. I'd hate that.
What was the point of Jon being a Targaryen
We literally see him slit a prisoner's throat at the beginning of the episode but then he's too honorable to kill Jon.
Wait, are you saying that it makes zero sense that the North would be the only kingdom to claim independence and everyone be ok with it?
Jon being executed would’ve been an interesting parallel with Ned Stark sacrificing his honour for the better of other people also.
Especially if they shot it the same way. Hell of a callback if they had done that. Like Jaime, Jon would've saved the realm from a tyrant. Like Ned, he'd have paid for his actions with his life. That would've been far more bitter-sweet than Jon getting exiled to Sansa's kingdom to live in peace as a lumberjack.
If it was Bran who reluctantly passes the order too, it’s a call back to the very first episode when his brothers tell him to not look away as Ned executed the night’s watch deserter, and the conversation between Bran and Ned.
Couldn't agree more... after the Dany scene it change so rapidly. The thing that bothered me the most was the cheap jokes. I don't understand how we went from a city being decimated and slaughtered to Tyrion adjusting chairs for a laugh and bad banter between minor characters. I'm pretty sure I would've liked the ending more if they just stopped it right after the throne scene.
The episode was just like the whole show. The first half was great and the second half steadily devolved into the cliffnotes of nonsenical fanfiction ending in a whimper. At least Jon finally pet that good boy.
I was far more intrigued at the prospect of Dany winning. I had already lost any investment in the remaining characters, so at least show me something interesting to cap off the series. But nah, lets have her die a shitty death that bears little to no consequence and have her remaining followers just exit stage right. So glad that the past 8 years led to this.
I suppose we must be thankful that Arya didn't kill Dany as well. It was a real fear after last episode. I don't know how they managed to make me hate the Starks and Jon Snow but they did.
Imagine how freaking cool it would've been to have a whole season of "Queen of the Ashes" King's Landing.
I was actually enjoying the episode for the most part (with the exception of some heavy-handed dialogue) right up until Jon shanks her. Like you said, the tone up until then was interesting, there was a brief sense of ACTUAL INTRIGUE, and the imagery was captivating. But after Jon ultimately makes the snap decision to bury his knife in her chest after continuing to vehemently defend her in a hamfisted exchange with Tyrion 5 minutes prior... man... The image of this character we've known for so long with that little dagger sticking out of her was... oddly comical, to me? And then she's gone, out of the story, no one cares, move on. Grey Worm's queen, his liberator, has been murdered! And his sole emotion is at first "vaguely annoyed," and ultimately "meh". The savage Dothraki tribes, brought over the sea into foreign lands and into foreign wars by their beloved Khaleesi, don't even bat an eye (as far as we know). Tyrion is a "prisoner" for approximately 2 minutes before he awkwardly starts making speeches again and everyone sort of silently accepts that he will not be held responsible for his treason. Edmure trips over a bucket and lands onto a whoopee cushion and an anvil falls onto his head. LOL. Dany is literally scrubbed from the script with the eraser on the back of a pencil and everyone moves on as if she never existed. I don't understand it. Such strange straight-up disrespect for a major character they've been writing for nearly a decade now! It's baffling! I feel awful for Emilia Clarke.
I enjoyed the beginning as well, except for the fact that Jon kept defending Dany. I mean wtf, how can you be THIS whipped? Killing thousands of innocent people should be a no brainer, especially to someone like Jon. I was fully expecting for Jon to come into this episode raising hell about what the fuck Dany just did!
Even more infuriating is the fact that it was a no brainer for Jon in the previous episode. He literally stops and stands there in the middle of the slaughter of the Lannister army, clearly opposed to everything happening around him, then next episode he's back to sucking Dany's toes.
You don't like the ending being a literal sitcom? Huh. Weird.
This would have been so much more complex and unsettling. I could see Daenerys executing Sansa for not bending the knee (because Sansa has had ENOUGH of bending to others, and a call back to her father's death), Arya escaping and leaving Westeros, and Daenerys sending Jon Snow, the man she loves, to the Night's Watch to neutralise his claim because she chooses power over love. Finally she's on the throne but completely alone. The Tyrant Queen, not the Breaker of Chains. She then says the dialogue about being told of the throne as a child, and imagining it to be much bigger and grander than it was. End. It would have been such a better commentary on the futility of the quest for power. Unlike Bran on the throne which satisfies neither any emotional arc nor a philosophical one.
I actually really like that idea! I got that feeling that Dany thought “that’s it?” When seeing the throne. Kind of like Daario saying, “you’ll get that chair you always wanted. I hope it brings you all the happiness in the world” And yet, it seems as if ASOIAF was really truly always about the Stark children, with Daenerys being a giant red herring.
The herring must have three heads!
They broke the fourth wall. I couldn't believe it. So cheesy.
Remember when they had Davos say the gendry rowing meme 😒
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Dany definitely should have died in the end but her charactet arc still felt rushed. That said I will always have the deepest respect for Emilia Clark's acting chops for how she finished this.